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Thread: Politics

  1. #1461
    Spiny beast TheBenior's Avatar
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    You mean like how they rail about "activist judges" but don't condemn things like handguns and concealed carry being made legal by court decisions in certain areas?

  2. #1462
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    Ex-fucking-zactly.

  3. #1463
    What fresh hell is this? overpowered's Avatar
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  4. #1464
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    That made me feel good, because I don't actually know all that much about history but even *I* knew that Lincoln was strongly pro-Federal Government. What a fucking tard. And sadly most people that listened to him probably nodded along in agreement. I feel like there needs to be an actual punishment for politicians that lie. Telling people flat-out, indefensible untruths about American history is no different that omitting the "may contain peanuts" label from food as far as I'm concerned. No politician would support Pepsi or Ford from lying in their ads, but that's exactly what they themselves do. There needs to be accountability for political brands just like there are for household products brands.

  5. #1465
    What fresh hell is this? overpowered's Avatar
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  6. #1466
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    That is a fucking terrible idea. Asking underlings to evaluate their tasks and giving them the freedom to choose not to execute orders is crazy. What would be the point of any security organization if there was no guarantee the grunts were going to carry out their missions? An army with an infantry that was not reliable? A CIA whose operatives could choose not to return information? That's a positively insane notion.

    Frankly I think we've wasted enough time on these investigations - I'm 100% not okay with torture, but any new investigation is going to get roadblocked like all the others. Let it go, move on, and draft some pretty strong laws banning torture and setting up significant punishment for those who order the law be broken. We can't get Chase or AIG properly prosecuted, does anyone think the head of the fucking CIA is going to be?

  7. #1467
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    While I agree with you, 100% blind obedience is what allows the concentration/ death camps to happen.

    And to me, "I was only doing my job!" is NOT a defense.

  8. #1468
    Director Freude am Fahren's Avatar
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    Aren't they already allowed to ignore illegal orders? Maybe just better education on what they are legally allowed to do.

  9. #1469
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    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    While I agree with you, 100% blind obedience is what allows the concentration/ death camps to happen.

    And to me, "I was only doing my job!" is NOT a defense.
    Yeah, sure. It also allows a-bombs to get dropped and smart bombs fired. There is - hopefully - no scenario where wartime stuff is so obviously The Right Thing To Do that someone wouldn't and shouldn't be questioning it. But if the people in the field get to make calls about what the people with the plans are executing the whole thing falls apart - up to and including morale and the safety of all involved.

    I agree it'd be great if there was some overarching morality that could be instilled in people so that we could guarantee the crazies don't get to execute their crazy plans, but there isn't. Everyone making "this doesn't feel right" judgment calls is a bad idea. Everyone worrying that years later someone might prosecute them for following orders is a bad idea.

    We put people in charge because we trust they are going to guide our people and pursue our interests as morally and ethically as possible. Those are the people that should be held accountable, not the people who had the misfortune of falling under their command.
    Last edited by thesameguy; February 19th, 2015 at 04:02 PM.

  10. #1470
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesameguy View Post
    Yeah, sure. It also allows a-bombs to get dropped and smart bombs fired. There is - hopefully - no scenario where wartime stuff is so obviously The Right Thing To Do that someone wouldn't and shouldn't be questioning it. But if the people in the field get to make calls about what the people with the plans are executing the whole thing falls apart - up to and including morale and the safety of all involved.

    I agree it'd be great if there was some overarching morality that could be instilled in people so that we could guarantee the crazies don't get to execute their crazy plans, but there isn't. Everyone making "this doesn't feel right" judgment calls is a bad idea. Everyone worrying that years later someone might prosecute them for following orders is a bad idea.

    We put people in charge because we trust they are going to guide our people and pursue our interests as morally and ethically as possible. Those are the people that should be held accountable, not the people who had the misfortune of falling under their command.
    Film quote:

    "Conduct onbecoming of a marine."

    The charges laid against someone following an order.

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