It’s yours comrade.
It’s yours comrade.
I think Elon Musk is a known slave driver and works his workers hard, but I don't believe people in SpaceX and Tesla are making slave wages. Even for the lowest paid workers in Amazon..., surely there are workers being paid even lower who are NOT employed by Jeff Bezos?
My point is that low wages are not all due to these mega billionaire owned companies. Amazon's and Tesla's success are not all due to exploitation of laborers. Smaller companies could also exploit workers. Hopefully it's market demand dictating these wages, but if wages becomes too low, yeah, we definitely should have higher min wage. I suppose that's where socialism can come in to save the day? Protecting those who are being exploited by capitalism or to provide social safety net for those in trouble times...
Both capitalism and socialism can be made to work and historically had some drawbacks. We just need to be careful not to repeat those same mistakes and try to take the best of both worlds. I just don't understand why there are always people who hate one of them so much and want one of them banned. To me, it just doesn't make sense to ban either one of them. On a very basic level, capitalism is just our need to make a living. Folks like Bezo and Musk are just very lucky and works very hard making their living. It's not their fault that they're so successful. As long as we can make sure these billionaires don't do evil shit, I don't see the problem with having trillionaires... as long as we also make sure rest of the folks can still make a living above poverty level.
Also, socialism is also basically our natural response to take care of each other when others are in trouble... whether it's due to health related issues or caring for older age folks... I don't believe socialism needs to take care of healthy young folks so that they can just play video games all day. UBI should just be some sort of supplemental income if it becomes necessary. We probably shouldn't allow UBI to cause labor shortage. IMHO, We don't need to take from the rich and then redistribute that money to everyone... perhaps just make sure we can end poverty. If everyone in our society could live without having to worry about their next meal, everyone can become more productive.
So government's job is to basically make basic standard of living or poverty line as low as possible(make sure inflation don't go out of control), and then to make sure its citizens are all above that poverty level. Socialism is needed to make sure nobody falls below the poverty level... and once that happens, everyone can try to be as productive as they want to be by practicing capitalism... or if one's content with play video games on their free time, that's fine too. We don't all have to work as hard as Elon Musk. Having one successful company is already amazing enough, I honestly don't know how he managed to do so well with multiple companies... Seriously, where else on earth could Elon Musk accomplish similar achievements?
I mainly have a problem with this conclusion. Let's go back to China... poor chinese people could be exploited by its government whether if it's strict communism or with market capitalism. The problem of exploitation isn't with any one of those -isms, but with those in power treating others unfairly or unjustly. If we can act fairly and justly, it really doesn't matter what kind of -ism we practice. Exploitations can exist under the same CCP rule regardless which -ism they practice..., but like I said, China did get richer collectively by practicing capitalism.Originally Posted by Rare White Ape
Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; September 1st, 2021 at 09:31 AM.
Fuck Texas.
HEY!!!! Ah, fuckit, ... you're right.
Once again, proving how important the ballot was in 2016.
"I am the only thing standing between you and the apocalypse." Hillary Clinton. October 11, 2016.
If only we knew just how accurate that statement was back then. (i did actually, and I tried to sound the alarm!!! And I got called all sorts of things, and still get called some of those things to this day. But the future is becoming the hellscape I chicken littled about regularly.)
Last edited by neanderthal; September 1st, 2021 at 03:36 PM.
HEY!!!! Ah, fuckit, ... you're right.
Once again, proving how important the ballot was in 2016.
"I am the only thing standing between you and the apocalypse." Hillary Clinton. 2016.
If only we knew just how accurate that statement was back then. (i did actually, and I tried to sound the alarm!!! And I got called all sorts of things, and still get called some of those things to this day. But the future is becoming the hellscape I chicken littled about regularly.)
Dude, get over it. She lost because she is a terrible campaigner. It was her who chose no to tour certain battleground states. It was her who attacked the white working class voter ('deplorables'), and that is a no-no of American politics.
acket.
Billi, your problem, or... one of your problems, is that you compartmentalise complex subjects too much without looking at the larger picture.
For starters, Amazon pays its bottom-end warehouse staff in the USA (a wealthy country) quite poorly. You covered that in your post. But you did not consider the vast amounts of things which are made in China for pennies and sold via Amazon with tiny profit in huge volumes to people in Western countries.
Uber is another example. Drivers are paid poorly, or locked into heavy car lease agreements. The reason Uber is so successful is the immense scale at which the company operates.
And you have it very wrong about Tesla or SpaceX. As I understand it, employees in car factories have very good workplace agreements, and aerospace engineers are rightfully paid very well for what they do. But again that's looking at it in isolation, in it's little box...
A trip to the supermarket might only cost $5 but Uber takes around half that. It doesn't seem like much to you but multiply that across 20 million trips per day. That's probably 2-3 million people in wealthy countries being exploited in a small way every day. If you buy any of those products from Amazon or truthfully ANYWHERE that sells anything, YOU are contributing to the problem I outlined. So am I. Once you understand this it becomes easier to recognise where the problem lies. And you also have to look at where the Musk family gained its wealth, a story I am sure you're familiar with because UwU ~".*.*."~Elon~".*.*."~ UwU is your hero so I won't repeat it here.
And finally I never suggested socialism as the replacement for crapitalism and I not sure it is even that.
UwU
Also, socialism is worker ownership of the means of production. Full stop.
She lost because of a thirty year smear campaign by Republicans, but gooff youngblood!!!on. I don't think she campaigned terribly in the least. Best, no. Terrible, no too.
Anyway, I just disagree with roofer that socialism needs to go away. Likewise I disagree with you that capitalism needs to go away. They both have their places in this world. Neither needs to be replaced, improved upon maybe.
Main issue I have with capitalism is the part where people could gamble with other peoples money by speculating… when it becomes all about money and not really building anything real, that’s when I have problems with it. Worst of all is that they’re betting things to go down. Profiting off of others misery is just lame.
Anyway, like I said, I have no problem with billionaires making their honest billions. You bet your own money building EVs and rockets, I think you deserve a big payoff.
Workers agreed to whatever wage when accepted their jobs. Job offers weren’t given at Gun point. Even Chinese peasants got richer than before when capitalism ‘exploited’ them.
I don’t think CCP believes capitalism has hurt China and wish to go back to communism… or just to ban capitalism. They may ban dissidents like Jack Ma, but I doubt CCP would ever abandon capitalism at this point.
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