except a lot of places will still charge you a fee for not being connectedOriginally Posted by Crazed_Insanity
except a lot of places will still charge you a fee for not being connected
It's difficult to be legitimately disconnected, and to have power at all times. You need to have proper ways to store the energy, and also ways of getting energy when the sun isn't out. I don't know what's so hard to understand... the energy industry is big in this country, they have a lot of hands in a lot of pockets, you either pay for fossil fuel, or you pay a fee to use solar. Don't like it? Move to a country that hates freedom.
In a turn of events shocking absolutely no one, idiot criminal is also a lying liar.
BLM founded 1946. Even his claim to have been there before the BLM was founded is bullshit.Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.
Water rights were transferred too, but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn't start grazing on that land until 1954.
Put simply because you're providing it at the wrong time of day. Solar power without storage does nothing to help with the 4-8pm winter load peak in December and January and provides a shit load power when nobody wants it, which wreaks havoc with voltage gradients on LV Feeders and the power fed back through HV/LV transformers. Storage could be placed on the network to help counteract the problem but large batteries aren't cheap and at present most studies are showing that they aren't commercially viable without massive subsidisation across the industry. Batteries also cause legal problems because it would mean that DNOs would be trading electricity, at the moment the law prevents this.
If the truth be known, DNOs would love people to disconnect their solar power. As for the green energy companies who are encouraging people to fit voltage lowering devices along with solar, they'd willfully strangle them.
I was actually misleading you when I said the government pays the feed-in tariffs, it's the suppliers but it is mandated by law.
http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/...eme-FITs#about
The suppliers are no more than electricity supermarkets, they do nothing to convey the electrical power from generator to doorstep and pay DNOs and TNOs a fee for transit, and that fee depends on how complicated the transit is, network investment etc. If load balancing and power quality becomes a major issue, the fee increases and so electricity costs increase across the board. Now the social issue is whether you make everyone pay for that, including vulnerable people, or just solar homes, which tend to be owned by people who are fairly well off.
Also true.
The problem isn't with how the electricity is generated, it's with where it's generated. The grid is setup for centralised generation not distributed generation. Put simply, it starts with fat cables and gradually moves to thinner cables as you progress from 132-400kV to 66kV to 33kV to 11kV to 400/415V. You also have a small voltage drop within each voltage segment due to cables losses. When you start generating at the wrong end of the network, you then need to increase cable sizes at the wrong end of the network and you have a situation where you suddenly have a high voltage at the end of an LV Feeder, which wants to drive electricity in the wrong direction unless you compensate with EAVC techniques. One solar home isn't a problem, or two, but what you tend to get is something called clustering, where a series of homes very close together all tend to get solar.I don't know what's so hard to understand... the energy industry is big in this country, they have a lot of hands in a lot of pockets, you either pay for fossil fuel, or you pay a fee to use solar. Don't like it? Move to a country that hates freedom.
Generators sell to suppliers, TNOs and DNOs are paid by suppliers and generators for conveying the power regardless of where it comes from. There really is no hidden agenda here, it's just a simple matter of physics. There is no problem with centralised solar, wind or tidal but if you want to setup a network for distributed generation, there's cost involved whether you have solar panels or you're burning diesel or coal.
Last edited by LHutton; April 23rd, 2014 at 01:40 AM.
It's a bit much to call someone defending their livelihood a criminal. Since the desert tortoise issue arose, ranchers had their income cut by 90% whilst still paying higher fees since 1993. It's not that they can pay and are being greedy, if that were the case all 52 ranchers in that area would be still in business but complaining about it. As it stands all but 3 of them are out of business and those 3 would be in danger too if they were adhering to the law. So the outcome of this desert tortoise isn't more public money, it's less. Aside from that it's a fabrication, it isn't endangered and certainly isn't endangered by cattle. If anything the declining numbers could be said to be correlated with reduced cattle grazing starting in 1934. Why? Because they eat cow dung.
https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/in...le/10776/10049
When purse strings became tight, pretty much everything to do with the protection of this species that cost money was killed, including several hundred actual tortoises only last year.
So whilst lying has taken place, it's taken place on both sides. If there is a legitimate desire to get ranchers off this land, the political issues should be discussed. The federal government are not private land owners and any decisions affecting land use are a matter for the public to determine during elections. As it stands, these issues haven't even seen the light of day. That isn't how a democracy works.
There is also the issue of this law being broken:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/43/661
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/30/51
Private rights in federal lands were recognized in an 1866 water law. It says, "… whenever, by priority of possession, rights to the use of water have vested and accrued, and the same are recognized and acknowledged by the local customs, laws, and the decisions of courts, the possessors and owners of such vested rights shall be maintained and protected in the same."
That Act is old, but every federal land law since then says, "Nothing in this Act shall be construed to impair any vested right in existence on the effective date of this Act."
Bundy actually is a bit of an idiot because he has fought the law on all the wrong issues. He does have a case, along with many other ranchers, it just isn't the one he's making.
As I've said there is a reason why this 'criminal' has so much support:
http://nj.npri.org/nj98/04/haas1.htm
Last edited by LHutton; April 23rd, 2014 at 07:25 AM.
I could have sworn that the peak load times were during business work hours when manufacturing and business offices are running at full capacity. Not when I'm at home watching television. :shrug:
If they're paying for the electricity that I am sending them and taking a fee out of that for being connected to the grid, I understand that.It's difficult to be legitimately disconnected, and to have power at all times. You need to have proper ways to store the energy, and also ways of getting energy when the sun isn't out. I don't know what's so hard to understand... the energy industry is big in this country, they have a lot of hands in a lot of pockets, you either pay for fossil fuel, or you pay a fee to use solar. Don't like it? Move to a country that hates freedom.
But, if there's a net loss, why would I connect my solar to the grid? I would just use it for my own personal use and keep the current grid connection for incoming power only.
What about when you're at home watching TV, whilst cooking and making a cup of tea, whilst someone is ironing and another person is using the computer and a fourth person is watching a second TV? Also would it surprise you if I said household electricity consumption has more than doubled since 1970? Large manufacturing businesses often aren't supplied from the LV network, they're supplied directly from HV. Business offices don't really use any more power than the people in them would if at home, maybe even less. The 4-8pm slot is just when everyone gets home, cooks, cleans and irons simultaneously, except in poorer areas, where the use is more uniform, with a small peak roughly when Jeremy Kyle starts (no I'm not joking). One of the things being looked at is tariff changes to charge people more for using electricity between 4pm and 8pm but providing it cheaper outside those times.
http://www.naturalnews.com/036194_so...ower_grid.html
http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...ll=1#post52501
Last edited by LHutton; April 23rd, 2014 at 09:51 AM.
In LA, 4- 8 pm, most people are on the freeways at some point, commuting home.
I've always understood that peak electricity usage was during business hours; schools, offices, industry all sucking away at the power teat. With the popularity of LED/ LCD tvs and florescent lights, I cant image four bulbs and three tvs being on in a home would suck up that much energy. But, what do I know, i'm single and live alone. My dinner is usually cold, or snacks. I do laundry at 11pm to avoid having to wait for other people.
Yeah, electric company at LA offer incentives/discounts for homeowners who give them the ability to turn off your A/C compressors remotely during summer day time. So I'm assuming in CA, peak usage occurs during hot summer afternoons where air conditioners are at full blast at homes, offices and malls, etc. Extra solar panels can definitely help alleviate the load.
Between 4 and 8pm there's a bit of both in the UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lcurve.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_demand
Column B in the spreadsheets is half hours from midnight, so 32-40 is 4-8pm. INDO = Initial Demand Outturn.
http://www2.nationalgrid.com/UK/Indu...Data-explorer/
http://www.nationalgridus.com/niagar...ad_profile.asp
Aside from this, load on the HV grid doesn't actually present as big a problem as load on the LV grid.
I was looking at this from a UK perspective. We don't have such heat issues.We're trialling similar things (DSR) for washing machines I think.
Last edited by LHutton; April 23rd, 2014 at 11:45 AM.
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