Politics

[overpowered]

Between two ferns with Hillary.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b2f...illary-clinton

[Crazed_Insanity]

So they asked you to document the things you've seen and read Hillary has already done, which you have identified as being part of the Wikileaks stories, and instead of doing that, you asked for them to provide proof that will predict the future.

C'mon, Billi, you have to understand how that looks.

You said "I have seen things that make me not trust her!"
They said "Show me things that make you not trust her, which you have already seen."
Your response is "Show me things that prove she will never change!"

Your first step should be clicking this link: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hillary+clinton+wikileaks

I thought I've already stated that by what I've seen with the primary election and thanks to wikileak revealing the emails, Hillary, DNC and the media, or the establishment, have proven to be untrustworthy.

I do realize the rest of the 'smear campaign' from the conservatives don't quite have solid evidence to prove anything... so what do you want me to produce? Evidence that can get her indicted? That's something I can just google and find? Com'on.

[Yw-slayer]

I dunno man, the Trumpists seem keen to call her Crooked Hillary any chance they get - why?

[Kchrpm]

so what do you want me to produce?

Listing them like you just did is a good first step. Links to articles that are specifically about the things you consider untrustworthy are the next step.

For example, if someone on the forum asked me why I thought Trump was racist, I would open up Google and reply with this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0c818f618904b
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...solutely-wors/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ate-california

Conversely, if someone asked me why I'm wary of Hillary Clinton, Google would help me find this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-b...b_9818398.html

It's not that hard.

[Crazed_Insanity]

YW, I'm not a Trumpist! Well, to be frank, as an anti-establishmentist, I am actually slightly preferring him over Hillary because I know he will fuck with the establishment! However, I still cannot in good conscience vote for the guy...,

Anyway, here's an example of non-trumpist calling Hillary crooked:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Listing them like you just did is a good first step. Links to articles that are specifically about the things you consider untrustworthy are the next step.

For example, if someone on the forum asked me why I thought Trump was racist, I would open up Google and reply with this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0c818f618904b
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...solutely-wors/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ate-california

Conversely, if someone asked me why I'm wary of Hillary Clinton, Google would help me find this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-b...b_9818398.html

It's not that hard.

Kchrpm, what's the point? Will we change anybody's minds? I was just telling you guys how I reached my decisions.

How about this, instead of smear campaign searches, how about we search for positive campaign promises? Let's even forget about whether or not if they can deliver on their promises or whether or not if they can even get elected. Just a side by side comparison of Hillary and Jill and why do we think our candidate is better?

BTW, to counter the argument of wasting votes on 3rd party candidates, here's a reason for voting for them even if you know they won't win. (Federal Election Commission could give them more money in future elections... just as F1 teams getting a single championship point can allow them access for more money next season...)
http://time.com/4504687/gary-johnson...-vote-funding/

Of course, higher % can also give them a chance at a fucking debate so that we won't always end up with a 2 horse race!!! (I think this stupid rule needs to be changed..., if a person can legally get on a ballot, you should just give the candidate the opportunity to talk and debate each other)

[Kchrpm]

Kchrpm, what's the point? Will we change anybody's minds?

The point is you were asked a question, and instead of answering it you asked more questions.

If someone asked me for Hillary's positive campaign promises, I would find this:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...aign-promises/

A few of my favorites:
1. "For families making less than $125,000 a year, we will eliminate tuition" for in-state students at public colleges.
4. "We will do everything we can to overturn Citizens United."
9. "As president, Hillary will expand background checks to more gun sales."

What about Donald Trump's?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...aign-promises/

A few of my favorites:
3. ‘Bring manufacturing (jobs) back’
4. Impose tariffs on goods made in China and Mexico
9. Cut taxes

See? It's not that hard. If someone asks for information, provide it. Don't just filibuster and ramble and ask questions back. This can be done with any topic, on either side. A discussion using specific, referenced/linked examples, not just rhetoric and vague allusions.

[Fogelhund]

I dunno man, the Trumpists seem keen to call her Crooked Hillary any chance they get - why?

I don't really know if most of them do understand the underlying issues with the Clintons. But the knowledge that they represent the establishment both politically and in terms of wealth is enough. They really are everything that is wrong with politics. Their ilk do need to be removed from politics, but, not for what Trump represents. They are there, for their own benefits, and really I don't believe that they care about the public.

I feel like Obama was a reasonably good president as an outsider. There are things I wonder if he could have done better, or better execution of.. yet it's so hard to make real change. I don't feel that he was as corrupt, or beholden to special interest groups etc... though the reality has been, you don't get to power without backing.

We've got to get to a place, where our representatives, represent us... not Big Oil, or NRA, or any number of other interests. For once, do the right thing for the people... and this shit is really going to bite us all in the ass, as there is already degrees of revolution against the establishment, in a bunch of forms. Trump is an example, BLM is another example, and really ISIL is as well. We need our leadership to smarten the fuck up. Apologies if language offends anyone... actually, if the language offends someone, more than the crap that is going on in this world... fuck you too. LOL

[overpowered]

[Freude am Fahren]

I don't really know if most of them do understand the underlying issues with the Clintons. But the knowledge that they represent the establishment both politically and in terms of wealth is enough. They really are everything that is wrong with politics. Their ilk do need to be removed from politics, but, not for what Trump represents. They are there, for their own benefits, and really I don't believe that they care about the public.

I disagree. I completely believe the Clintons care very much for the country and the people of the country. I also believe they know the system better than anyone, and the only way to get things done is to make the corporations, establishments and allies happy, then maybe you can get a little bit of the good things done. They game the system for all of our benefit, not just their own. She could have retired and just let money from speeches and books come in rather than running for office after office if all she cared about was herself.

Hate the game, not the player.