Politics

[Crazed_Insanity]

Whoa, nice deflection. I'm pretty sure it's surprising because that's what you generally do. I was actually considering barging in here and claiming full credit for getting you to see something with a little nuance, feeling super proud of myself after browbeating you over it so many times.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the way you've traditionally argued things is why it was surprising, not because of any judgment of you as a person over your religious beliefs.

Okay, maybe I shouldn't blame this on Jesus, I think I do have this contrarian tendency..., in a Godly crowd, I like to play devil's advocate. In this liberal crowd, I often like to play the christian conservative to illustrate the issues on the other side. I know very well that I'm NOT well like by either side when I do this, but I just felt obligated to help the people who are adamant on one side to be able to see things better on the OTHER side... it also helps me to be able to learn more stuffs as you guys explains your side better.

I'm not here to win popularity contests. I like this place because I can learn from the minds of different folks...

[Tom Servo]

Then it seems a little disingenuous to claim that he said that because he's judging you on your religious beliefs. That's all I'm saying.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, religion had nothing to do with it.

[Kchrpm]

I understand the difference, but what exactly is your point? Are you saying it's more acceptable to hate and deny the folks who are making 'wrong' choices?

I'm saying don't hate the person, disagree with the choice. Give them reasons to change their minds, the same reasons you used to make your choice. If their choice doesn't change, then make your choice to react accordingly. It's not about hate. It's about choice.

Nowadays, even if Michael Jackson was born black can become white.

No.

Genders can also flip too.

No.

I'm going to assume those were your attempts at humor, so I'm not going to point out the obvious major flaws in those statements.

Anyway, I just don't think we should discriminate against people...who seemingly made 'wrong' choices.

That's not how things work. If I "choose" to punch you in the face, should you not discriminate against me? You make a choice, you make an action, you live with the consequences. That's not discrimination. The choice of the reaction may be, as it may be based on other factors, but reacting to an action is not in itself discriminatory.

[Jason]

Why am I not surprised that Billi thinks race, gender, and sexuality are choices.

[Rikadyn]

Why am I not surprised that Billi thinks race, gender, and sexuality are choices.

What is because you've seen what he says.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, Servo and FaF, I think this board in general does not regard Christianity very highly, right? And these issues are very clearly divided by the so called Christian values...

I also do understand that my own "personality" can sometimes piss people off, it's not all about Christianity..., but surely you can't say it has nothing to do with Christianity.

That's not how things work. If I "choose" to punch you in the face, should you not discriminate against me? You make a choice, you make an action, you live with the consequences. That's not discrimination. The choice of the reaction may be, as it may be based on other factors, but reacting to an action is not in itself discriminatory.

Or if one chooses to become a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, Republican or Democrat or conspiracy theorist..., there really shouldn't be anything for people to react to. That's my point.

However, these labels alone are often enough to generate allergic reactions for some folks due to past exposure...

Now, if there's an action, which resulted in some sort of reaction, I can fully understand that isn't discriminatory.

I'm just saying we all should at least try to not 'react' to 'labels', but of course for some, this can't be helped. If you have a allergy to something, then you just need to stay away from it. No need to try to kill yourself by trying accept something you're allergic to... However, just because you are allergic to peanuts, it doesn't mean we should get rid of all peanuts in the world. Just have to learn to agree to disagree with peanuts and stay away.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why am I not surprised that Billi thinks race, gender, and sexuality are choices.

I never said that. Again, I think you're not surprised because of Christianity or perhaps you just think Billi is a dumbass or what? Can you explain why you are not surprised when you misinterpret what I said? I'm really curious. No need to be politically correct. Give me the honest truth.

Now, I was talking about the controversial issues... such as pro-life or pro-choice... pro-gay marriage or against... these pro this and against this issues are based on people's choices. People need to respect people of 'other side' and agree to disagree. In reality, these issues are often false dichotomies. Once you pick a side, you risk becoming an extremist IMHO. Real world is all inclusive, not limited by our preconceived ideologies.

Back to my original point, there's no guarantee that a pro-gay-marriage candidate will become a great politician and vice versa. However, most liberals vote as if that is a true statement. Similarly Christians voters also make the same mistake as if all born again Christian candidates are Jesus Christ compared to the liberal satans. That kind of mentality is stupid IMHO. Sad part is that both sides are now playing this to the extreme and it's not letting up...

(So I'm calling both sides stupid, not targeting any individual group out... this is how I fail to win popularity contests, but anyway, that's just how I felt about this.)

[Kchrpm]

Or if one chooses to become a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, Republican or Democrat or conspiracy theorist..., there really shouldn't be anything for people to react to. That's my point.

It's what one chooses to do as a Christian, Muslim, etc. that matters. You can be a Christian that accepts and even marries gay couples. You could be a Republican that fights and votes for abortion rights and social programs. You can be a conspiracy theorist that genuinely listens to and accepts facts brought to you by multiple major sources.

But if your reason for making a choice that affects other people is "I'm a Christian/Atheist/conspiracy theorist" and you can't provide any other justification than the texts that you choose to believe in that others don't, people are going to react to that.

If you actively support the ideas of an organization, that is a choice, and people can choose how they react to that.

This doesn't mean people aren't allowed to be what they want to be, and make the choices they want to make, but those choices don't happen in a vacuum. If a politician chooses to register as a Democrat or Republican, and then run for public office, they cannot expect for people to have zero opinion based on that choice. It shouldn't be an overwhelming and unstoppable reaction, but there will be some reaction.

[Kchrpm]

(So I'm calling both sides stupid, not targeting any individual group out... this is how I fail to win popularity contests, but anyway, that's just how I felt about this.)

You fail to win popularity contests because you fail to see the obvious, and then start never-ending arguments where you are presented with the obvious in multiple forms and refuse to accept it.