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Thread: Politics

  1. #7331
    Corvette Enthusiast Kchrpm's Avatar
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    You're right, facts are not enough for most people, they need to be emotionally interested and invested. Democrats lost because they could not energize enough people to go out and vote for them, because of their choice for candidate and their message/marketing.

    But that's a wholly different discussion than the animosity between the two parties. The emotional factor does less to get people to change sides and more to get them to decide to vote at all.
    Get that weak shit off my track

  2. #7332
    Corvette Enthusiast Kchrpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    Any attempts to try to sway the conservatives using only cold hard facts will also be a losing proposition.
    That is what frustrates liberals. If it doesn't matter whether what you say is the truth or not, only that it's what they want to be told in the first place, then there is no way to change their mind. Period.
    Get that weak shit off my track

  3. #7333
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    Of course there is a way, I'm telling you that liberals just need to add some 'emotional' element into the mix, not just presenting the facts. Just as liberals don't like conservative Christians to throw the bible truth at them. There's more to a religion than just a book. There's more to life than just facts!

    Anyway, most conservatives will switch sides on same sex marriages when they have gay children or close gay friends for example. There is hope still..., however, 1st step is to stop this 'sickness' of writing your opposition off right away because of whatever preconceived ideas... we need not only facts and reasons, but also empathy for one another in order to come closer.
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; December 8th, 2016 at 01:30 PM.

  4. #7334
    Corvette Enthusiast Kchrpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    Of course there is a way, I'm telling you that liberals just need to add some 'emotional' element into the mix, not just presenting the facts.
    You act like politicians are the only ones talking about things, and that only non-emotional ones are out there talking about it.

    How much creative content is out there emotionally expressing liberal beliefs? Hell, that's a huge part of the claim of conservatives, that the liberal media and liberal Hollywood is trying to push their agenda by putting gay people on TV, shows like Cosmos that passionately defend and explain scientific discoveries and issues, etc.

    Are there people whose minds can be changed? Of course. But don't think just speaking emotionally is all it takes to change everyone's mind. Michelle and Barack Obama are great speakers, and plenty of people still refuse to believe anything they say.

    Just as liberals don't like conservative Christians to throw the bible truth at them.
    Those aren't facts. You can't compare someone that refuses to accept facts, tested and re-tested by multiple people in multiple ways, to someone that refuses to accept things that a predominantly fictional book says happened.
    Get that weak shit off my track

  5. #7335
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    Speaking of Obama, he is nice, but he didn't quite lived up to my expectation of uniting the nation. Of course as Neanderthal said, there IS the worst congress ever..., but I also do detect a tone of disdain at the crazy conservatives from Obama too sometimes. That is not recipe for success at bridging the gap. I also don't quite understand why BLM movement can peak up during a time when a black prez is in charge?!?!? Were the racist assholes/cops just taking it out on the poor black folks because they couldn't get thru secret service protection or did Obama not do enough to help bridge THIS particular gap? Might be combination of both or something else?

    Anyway, as for empathy, I'm not just talking about creating some sort of feel good presentation or movie or propaganda. Wells Fargo bank can do that! They can offer awesome looking venues for spectacular conventions. Claim that they are for gay rights... even after they're caught committing fraud, they publically apologized and claim that they will make things right..., but behind closed doors, they're still screwing consumers over legally. Customers cannot sue because the accounts they didn't open has fine prints saying you can't sue... faking that you genuinely cares is what's wrong with political correctness and I'm sure the conservatives can see thru that.

    I'm not asking for some sort of PR stunt to sway minds, but personal engagement. Not just to bicker with your conservative friends, but to actually engage in respectful conversations. I know this is really tough to do with likes of Roofer... I know. For a lot of folks here, they can't even stand reading Billi's post let alone engage in talks with him..., but that's is what needs to be done. I think right now, both sides simply believe that the other side is just wrong, end of discussion. Whenever we do open our mouths, it'll only be insults...

    With regard to bible facts and facts, it's similar to same sex marriage and marriage. They are different yes, but they are also the same. You can vehemently deny bible facts just as they vehemently deny real facts. Not saying it's right, but point is facts alone are usually not very persuasive... especially when somebody has already made up his mind with preconceived ideas.

    Anywho, let's get back to talking about Trump, good news and bad news or bad news good news depending on your position:

    Trump is the least popular president-elect EVER!

    Trump's approval rating has been improving.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign...ast-presidents

  6. #7336
    Corvette Enthusiast Kchrpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    Of course as Neanderthal said, there IS the worst congress ever..., but I also do detect a tone of disdain at the crazy conservatives from Obama too sometimes.
    Because they have been combative against him and all of his proposals. Rather than trying to come to agreements, they dig in their feet and say "no way, no how." They acted like they wanted him to fail to complete anything, so they could blame the failures on him, rather than pass anything he wanted to have go through and let it live on its own merit.

    I also don't quite understand why BLM movement can peak up during a time when a black prez is in charge?!?!? Were the racist assholes/cops just taking it out on the poor black folks because they couldn't get thru secret service protection or did Obama not do enough to help bridge THIS particular gap? Might be combination of both or something else?
    The things causing the Black Lives Matter movement have continually existed. They're just having a light shone on them. The bandwidth exists for these stories and trends to be found, researched, spread, studied and repeated. The ease of creating and spreading videos allows us to see and share video evidence of what took place, rather than just having the offending officer (and their compatriots) take on it

    And BLM isn't just a matter of racist/asshole cops, it's about unchecked bias. You can't fully get rid of personal bias, but you can acknowledge it and work to fight against it. It's not a conscious "I can't wait until I can justifiably kill a black guy," it's a subconscious "this person is black, I better be on my toes," and the fact that whatever the cause, the result is too often that no guilt is found in the actions of the officer.
    Get that weak shit off my track

  7. #7337
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    Prejudice, apprehension, and racism are different things.

    You can be apprehensive about a group of people that surround you, but not be racist.

    You can be prejudiced towards an ideology and it not be racist or based on apprehension. Hence, double blind studies in science.

    You can be prejudiced and apprehensive based on racism though.

  8. #7338
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    I think racism falls under prejudice, right? Racism is a form of prejudice, they are not complete different or unrelated.

    Anyway, the difficult thing is that these things are not really controlled by the intellectual brain, but the automatic part of the brain that responds rapidly without conscious thoughts. So I'm more sympathetic for the cops because of this. Hopefully future training can help alleviate the problem... since human brains CAN be retrained. However, it's probably unreasonable to expect all cops to be able to perform flawlessly under the pressure of life and death situation.

    When I wrote "racist assholes/cops", I meant / as a separator. Not implying all cops are racist assholes.

    There were racist assholes too for sure... such as Zimmerman and the guy who shot up a black church in NC for example. If it were black folks shooting up a white kid or a white church, I wonder what would happen to the black suspect during the legal process?

    Our legal system is also very biased and I think it'll be easier to fix our legal system because during legal proceedings, we should be able to rely more on our intellectual side of the brain more. If jurors are the problem, then maybe laws need to be changed so that we eliminate that problem... such that race of the suspect must be matched with the racial mix of the juror or something... Anyway, I think the legal part can be more easily measured and fixed systematically. As long as blacks are being sentenced longer than whites, something needs to be fix and BLM can get in the legal system's case! However, whenever a tragic police shooting happens, I just can't help asking both the suspects and the cops... WTF were you thinking? (They probably weren't thinking in the moment!) Sigh...

    Anyway, back to politics... Since DNC cannot take over control of congress, now lost the WH too..., just look at the bright side, RNC now has nobody else to blame if they screw up. If DNC cannot win by doing a good job for the entire nation, then hopefully DNC can eventually take over when RNC screws up completely. Of course, there is also the possibility that Trump will actually succeed and make America great again! So stay optimistic, this is only a temporary set back!
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; December 9th, 2016 at 10:51 AM.

  9. #7339
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    You completely ignored what I said and put your own spin on it. Ignoring basics of psychology, sociology, and the English language.

    You are a special kind of idiot.

    I'm done.

  10. #7340
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    Yes, the 1st sentence was a question solely for you, and you consider that a spin?

    As for the rest, start from 'Anyway', they're my own opinions in response to my earlier discussion with Kchrpm.

    I think this is clearly another case of the 'Jason Syndrome'. Maybe instead of 'Anyway', I should specify clearly that I was addressing Kchrpm. So sorry for the basic english error. You guys really like to twist my words and then take things very personally for some reason... my english is really that bad? Bad enough for you guys to get the meanings I never intended or in some cases the opposing meaning? I must be very special. Hmm...
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; December 9th, 2016 at 01:21 PM.

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