G string is giving me fits. I just do not seem to be able to get the intonation right. I can get it tuned right playing open, but it's always sharp at the 12th fret. I've moved the saddle back and forth and it really doesn't seem to do much of anything. Don't have this problem with any other string.
That’s weird, but not unheard of on guitar internet forums over the years. I don’t have an easy answer for you. Here are a bunch of rambling thoughts that might help, or might not.
I have a little experience with Tune-O-Matic bridges, but I’ve never had your problem. I googled to find anything specific to Les Pauls and G strings. This is worth reading IMO. I’m sure you can find similar discussions.
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/epip...-g-string.html
Ask any electric player and they’ll probably tell you the G string gives them more trouble than any other string. G strings are always a little funky with classic electric guitars because in the early 1950s string sets were thicker and came with a wound G string, as acoustic guitar string sets still do. Strings have gotten thinner in the passing decades and now a plain G is the norm but we’re still using 1950s bridge designs. Just for grins you could put a wound G on there and see what happens. Most guitar stores sell single strings. Just ask for their thinnest wound string if you feel like experimenting. It won’t bend as easily as a plain G but it might (probably will) sound really good. Get on the neck pickup, roll the tone down some, and play some jazz on that guitar as Les Paul himself intended. But, a wound G might be too fat for your G string nut slot. More on nuts later. Still, I’d spend a buck for a string if I were you just to say you did it. It would be like putting cyclocross tires on your new Trek – probably not what you want to ride on every day but possibly fun for a little while.
Along the same lines of trying a wound G, you might try a thicker plain G. In fact, that might be the first thing to try, now that I think about it. LPs have shorter scale lengths than Fenders, so if you’re using the same strings as you were on your Strat, you might try going up a gauge, like to “tens” if you’re using “nines” now.
Do you have a fresh set of strings on when you’re trying to check and set intonation? Old strings that have been stretched and bent and dented underneath by frets and covered with the oils from your skin get worn out and eventually don’t intonate properly. That’s how I know when it’s time to change strings – not because a digital tuner says the 12th fret is off, but when I start hearing chords that sound out of tune even though the open strings are in tune. Also, very rarely you might get a “bad” string out of a pack according to internet forums, but I never have. But then again, I don’t go through strings like guys who play guitar a lot do. I was always the bass player and bass strings can last for years.
But assuming your strings have been changed somewhat recently and they aren’t caked with beer and sweat, and you didn’t get that one manufacturing error in a million, you should hear the pitch of the 12th fret note change when you move the saddle back and forth, as you know. When you say it doesn’t seem to do much of anything, I’m thinking it’s so very sharp that your tuner is showing sharp no matter what you do with the saddle. Hopefully you can hear the pitch change as you move the saddle even if your tuner is telling you it’s some degree of sharp. I’ve never had that problem on a Fender bridge, but in that link above you’ll see guys talking about flipping the T.O.M. bridge around and talking about an aftermarket product with greater saddle adjustment room. Those are possibilities if all else fails, I guess, as is taking the guitar to a professional guitar tech for a setup if your LP is a “keeper” and you don’t mind spending a few bucks on it.
You are de-tuning the string a bit before moving the saddle, and then tuning back up, right? Don’t move the saddle with the string at regular pitch. It can be done, but the scraping of the saddle under a tight string can’t be good for the string.
What about the other frets besides the 12th? Try frets all over the neck and see if they get consistently sharper as you get to the higher frets, or if there’s some variation. If it varies, such as flat in one place and sharp in another, the string could be getting pinched in the nut slot, which is a job for a professional guitar tech, unless you want to buy a set of nut files (pricey!) and learn by trial and error. From personal experience, I can say with confidence that most nuts are not as good as they could be straight from the factory, or at least in guitars in my price range (middle-of-the-road pricewise, and below). Usually nut slots are just a little high which makes the action high at the low frets and can make the notes at the low frets sharp even if the open string and 12th fret are in tune. This can make chords sound like crap on a guitar that is supposedly in tune.
I don’t bother with nuts on cheap guitars if they’re “good enough” but I have had new nuts made for two basses and one Telecaster neck that I’ve moved around to various bodies and it makes a difference in how in tune the instrument plays all over the neck. I wouldn’t have a serious “keeper” guitar without a nice nut made or at least checked and had the slots polished by a pro. But that’s just me. Maybe you have five decent nut slots and one that’s funky. You might take an old guitar string and rub it back and forth in the slot(s) to make sure there are no burrs or rough spots in them. You can use fine sandpaper for the wider slots, or emery cloth.
One quick way to check overall nut health is to put a capo on the first fret. Always check your tuning after you put on a capo. If chords suddenly sound in tune with the capo where they didn’t before, your nut needs attention, regardless of what’s going on at the 12th fret. You don’t play only 12th fret notes, so it’s important for the guitar to play in tune all over the neck and especially down near the nut where most of spend our time playing chords.
I set intonation standing up, with the guitar strapped on in playing position and plugged into a tuner, or with a Snark tuner clipped to the headstock. I figure the guitar should be in playing position and not sitting flat on a workbench. As you’ve seen from resting your guitar on the headstock on the floor (
*CRINGE!*…but more on that later), most guitar necks are made of wood and wood moves. I also don’t use the 12th fret harmonics to check intonation. I want the fretted note to be in tune, since I play fretted notes far more often than harmonics, and the 12th fret note is right, the harmonic will certainly be close enough, if not dead on. That’s my opinion. Others will disagree and set intonation with the guitar on its back on a workbench and by using harmonics. To each his own.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of a tuner are you using? You can get strobe tuners like the Peterson brand for super-accurate work as pro guitar techs and serious hobbyists use, but any digital tuner made in the 21st century should be good enough for basic intonation at the 12th fret. I use a Snark lately, but for years I set up instruments with an old blinky-light Sabine that I bought in 1990 and it got the job done just fine. It still works fine but isn’t as convenient as modern designs. It looks like an antique from 1960s Star Trek compared to Snarks and some of the cool new tuner pedals these days.
There are also smart phone and tablet apps for strobe tuners. I’ve heard good things about the Peterson strobe app for iOS and would own it, except I haven’t yet coughed up $100 or more for an interface to let me plug a guitar into the iPad. One of these days, maybe…
Originally Posted by lostnight
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