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Thread: Look who's going to Autocross Dubai... because alien aka "Who da man? CudaMan!"

  1. #561

  2. #562
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    I know, I barely had to do anything!

  3. #563
    Best Day 1 run (West course):




    Best Day 2 run (East course):


  4. #564
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    Looks so fun!

    I donít like the low revving sound of Subaruís though, but probably handled great!

  5. #565
    The BRZ/FR-S engine could use more character. It's hard to get them to sound nice. They don't have much torque, they don't have a VTEC-like surge at higher RPMs, they don't have the turbo torque rush. But the engine is very linear across the powerband with the modest torque it does have (once you get rid of the factory torque dip) and it quietly, efficiently builds speed. The chassis is the real star. Even though the suspension geometry is mediocre (parts bin engineering, yay!), the super low center of gravity and modest curb weight make it dance.

    You can see I'm much more confident in my inputs on Day 2 after a few runs on the Yokohamas. They are a very mysterious tire so far. Yesterday we did a local event on them in scorching heat, and as an experiment we did 12 back to back runs with little break in between and we did nothing to cool the tires. Wanted to see if they got greasy when really hot. They didn't. And as the tire got hotter it sharpened up. The first couple runs on the tires, they felt really soft and sloppy. Normally heat makes things *more* pliable... I'm no tire engineer but this goes against what I know from experience and what little I know of materials physics.

  6. #566
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    You can Ďfeelí suspension geometry?!?!

    Tires are for sure the trickiest part of a race car. Even Ferrari donít understand tires very well!

  7. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by CudaMan View Post
    The BRZ/FR-S engine could use more character. It's hard to get them to sound nice. They don't have much torque, they don't have a VTEC-like surge at higher RPMs, they don't have the turbo torque rush. But the engine is very linear across the powerband with the modest torque it does have (once you get rid of the factory torque dip) and it quietly, efficiently builds speed. The chassis is the real star. Even though the suspension geometry is mediocre (parts bin engineering, yay!), the super low center of gravity and modest curb weight make it dance.

    You can see I'm much more confident in my inputs on Day 2 after a few runs on the Yokohamas. They are a very mysterious tire so far. Yesterday we did a local event on them in scorching heat, and as an experiment we did 12 back to back runs with little break in between and we did nothing to cool the tires. Wanted to see if they got greasy when really hot. They didn't. And as the tire got hotter it sharpened up. The first couple runs on the tires, they felt really soft and sloppy. Normally heat makes things *more* pliable... I'm no tire engineer but this goes against what I know from experience and what little I know of materials physics.
    Yeah, I still have my FR-S and the torque dip is definitely an annoyance. The fuel economy isn't great either.....overall I wish it would have had the 2.4 Liter engine in the other Scions like the tC and 2nd gen xB, more torque, slightly less HP but a much more usable powerband IMO.

    The other thing that bothers me about that car all the time, is the door never stays open. You know how cars have like 2 opening areas where they will stay open....FR-S has them, they just don't work....so the door is always closing on you unless you prop it open
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  8. #568
    This is true. I forgot about that.

    The torque dip can be remedied with a $500 header (maybe even less?) and an off the shelf tune, and it makes a noticeable difference. I'm sure you know that. I think it makes the car much nicer to drive, even though it doesn't add a lot of power. A tune also fixes the punitive stock rev limiter that decelerates rather than holding peak speed.

    What kind of fuel economy are you getting? I think they do great for a sports car, especially one that can do the 1/4 mile in easily under 15 seconds. Upper 30s on the highway isn't unheard of.


    Billi, I guess suspension geometry can be felt, in a sense. I've never thought about it that way. I just know a bit about the geometry in these cars (and some others) and how that affects grip in various circumstances. If Toyobaru had gone all out on bespoke suspension parts and mounting points on these cars, they could have been extra amazing, but they do pretty well in spite of their cost savings shortcomings. The parts and tuning we've done in STX trim go a long way to making it better, at the cost of some of the comfort and ground clearance Joe Consumer would expect. I personally find moderately stiffly sprung cars with excellent damping curves to often be at least as good in ride quality as regular soft OEM springs with cheap OEM dampers, but I'm probably a bit unique in this respect. I do tend not to drive very much on extremely bad roads. But I digress.

    Anyone remember how Toyota specifically (err, Scion...) was marketing the FR-S as the modern generation AE86 at launch? Right down to "it does great drifts if you want!" They did a great job of this, but as I learned later about the suspension parts, particularly at the back, I think this may have been a masterstroke of positive marketing/branding spin on a more mediocre rear suspension design from the Subaru parts bin. The rear suspension comes from Subaru's bread and butter AWD cars, which, like any AWD front-engine car, need help rotating on power. The rear suspension geometry is designed to facilitate this. Put it on a RWD car, add rear LSD, and it'll *really* want to rotate on power rather than put that power to the ground when turning. The way this idea of marketing spin for the FR-S dawned on me was from racing the GT3 GT-R. It had to use stock rear suspension arms and mounting points, yet was converted to RWD instead of the street-car AWD. We struggled a lot to put power down off of corners, even for an FR car in general, even with some of the smartest engineers in North America working to optimize this area within the limitations of FIA homologation.

  9. #569
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    Very interesting...

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by CudaMan View Post
    This is true. I forgot about that.

    The torque dip can be remedied with a $500 header (maybe even less?) and an off the shelf tune, and it makes a noticeable difference. I'm sure you know that. I think it makes the car much nicer to drive, even though it doesn't add a lot of power. A tune also fixes the punitive stock rev limiter that decelerates rather than holding peak speed.

    What kind of fuel economy are you getting? I think they do great for a sports car, especially one that can do the 1/4 mile in easily under 15 seconds. Upper 30s on the highway isn't unheard of.


    Billi, I guess suspension geometry can be felt, in a sense. I've never thought about it that way. I just know a bit about the geometry in these cars (and some others) and how that affects grip in various circumstances. If Toyobaru had gone all out on bespoke suspension parts and mounting points on these cars, they could have been extra amazing, but they do pretty well in spite of their cost savings shortcomings. The parts and tuning we've done in STX trim go a long way to making it better, at the cost of some of the comfort and ground clearance Joe Consumer would expect. I personally find moderately stiffly sprung cars with excellent damping curves to often be at least as good in ride quality as regular soft OEM springs with cheap OEM dampers, but I'm probably a bit unique in this respect. I do tend not to drive very much on extremely bad roads. But I digress.

    Anyone remember how Toyota specifically (err, Scion...) was marketing the FR-S as the modern generation AE86 at launch? Right down to "it does great drifts if you want!" They did a great job of this, but as I learned later about the suspension parts, particularly at the back, I think this may have been a masterstroke of positive marketing/branding spin on a more mediocre rear suspension design from the Subaru parts bin. The rear suspension comes from Subaru's bread and butter AWD cars, which, like any AWD front-engine car, need help rotating on power. The rear suspension geometry is designed to facilitate this. Put it on a RWD car, add rear LSD, and it'll *really* want to rotate on power rather than put that power to the ground when turning. The way this idea of marketing spin for the FR-S dawned on me was from racing the GT3 GT-R. It had to use stock rear suspension arms and mounting points, yet was converted to RWD instead of the street-car AWD. We struggled a lot to put power down off of corners, even for an FR car in general, even with some of the smartest engineers in North America working to optimize this area within the limitations of FIA homologation.
    Yeah I know there's fixes...I'm just not focused on car stuff much right now, it's just a daily driver and I'm going to get something better for my business needs soon as it just can't store much.
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