Somebody stop me... (Gaming PC Build Thread)

[XHawkeye]

My computer is OLD and I'm getting the new computer bug.

Anyone built a Ryzen rig?

[thesameguy]

For gaming? I'd stick with Intel. Ryzen is quite good for multithreading, but Kaby Lake still holds the crown for single-thread performance. An OC'd i5-7600k is a mean CPU. If not so much gaming but general computer usage, maybe Ryzen.

[dodint]

My gaming pc died right in time for Forza7. Not impressed.

[CudaMan]

How old is old? :) I've got a bit of an itch to modernize too, maybe with luck by the end of the year. I built this mid-range system in 2010, don't think I've upgraded it at all. The funny part is my phone has more RAM than my 'gaming' desktop!

[Yw-slayer]

This thread is titled "Someone stop me" but has from the start been basically "LET'S DO THIS GUYZ".

[novicius]

:lol:

[GreatScawt]

:devil:

[dodint]

Does anyone sell Alienware level stuff without the ridiculous looking casings? Yes, I know I can build my own blah blah but my semester starts Monday and I won't have time for that mess until May. Thinking about buying myself a new gaming rig for Christmas. Fairly certain my motherboard died on the machine I bought in 2010.

I'm leaning toward just getting an Alienware 17 and moving away from desktop altogether. Just worried about future proofing for 4k/VR and the ability to run triple monitors. I know Alienware/Dell has the ability to run external video cards but I have no idea how that works.

[Tom Servo]

Heh, I don't know much outside of building my own, but I figured I'd do a search for gaming desktops. Those Alienware ones look positively sedate compared to all the others that come up in a search at Best Buy.

FWIW, building your own has gotten easier and easier over time. The cases and power supplies are more modular than ever, you need fewer expansion cards than ever. My latest upgrade was a breeze to put together.

[dodint]

It probably sounds stupid but my biggest hurdle to building my own is the mental block I have against paying retail for Windows.

[dodint]

Speaking of power supplies, I've been very happy with my Corsair CMPSU-650TXV2. If I did go the build route could I reuse it? No idea what the expected life of these are or if they've advanced enough since 2013 to warrant a newer one.

[Tom Servo]

650 is probably good enough. I've got an 850 but it's likely overkill, though I don't know a great way to measure what wattage I actually need. I had shitty luck with a Corsair, but if you've had this one since 2013 and it's treating you well, I'd imagine it'll keep being good enough until you possibly exceed the wattage. (My Corsair lasted about a month, so I imagine like a lot of electronics it either breaks almost immediately or will last forever) The main change I've seen is to move to modular cabling (don't have every cable under the sun coming out of it, but have plugs in the PSU so you only plug in the cabling you actually need), and my 2012 Thermaltake had that.

Just found this site (https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator), according to it I only need 474 watts to power my system (Core i7-7700k, 16 gigs of ram, a few USB3 plus a lot of USB2 devices, GTX 1080, two spinning disks and one SSD), so 650 should be totally fine.

You shouldn't have any problem keeping the same case, too. I haven't noticed much changing in the way of cases other than making life easier installing things like drives.

[dodint]

I was wondering what the modular meant, thanks. Yeah, the power supply looks like Medusa but I just zip tied the extras together and folded them into an empty optical drive bay.

My case is terrible. I had to dremel away portions of one of the supports to get power to my graphics card (EVGA GeForce GTX 770 Classified 4GB 256-bit GDDR5) and I've been operating it since 2013 with the side panel off because the power cables were on the casing side of the card and stick out.
Really I just want a rectangle inconspicuous tower with lots of room to work in.

I assume that card is pretty dated now as well? It was working fine with FM6:A and iRacing last week.

Maybe I'll do a slow build. Buy a case and motherboard now, reuse my graphics card, drives, power supply, RAM, etc and then when I'm ready to make the jump to 4k (no point now without the monitors) I'll upgrade the graphics card and RAM.

[Yw-slayer]

I'd wait for a month if you can anyway, as the 8th gen Core chips are being announced on Sunday.

[dodint]

Yeah, this would be a December thing at the earliest. School and all.

Are you implying I should look at buying into an 8th gen chip or take advantage of the price drop on older chips?

[Tom Servo]

Well, graphics card is about 3 generations older than the newest ones, but reasonably beefy for its generation. Still shows up on the "high end" chart at https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html Some of the really nice newer GPUs will take up even more room in your case, so yeah, if you were having a hard time fitting the 770 in there, a new case would probably be a good call.

Shockingly, my case from 2012 is still actually on sale. I've been happy with it, I imagine there are even better ones out there now, probably for cheaper: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008B6ONXA/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_ST1_dp_1

[Tom Servo]

Similar vein, this looks pretty subdued: https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Carbide-Blackout-Ultra-Silent-Mid-Tower/dp/B00R0ZHWC2/ref=pd_sbs_147_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00R0ZHWC2&pd_rd_r=DCJJEYCE8KRPBGM48CXG&pd_rd_w=3WsBy&pd_rd_wg=Uyoky&psc=1&refRID=DCJJEYCE8KRPBGM48CXG

[Kchrpm]

I will buy Cuda's copy of F7 if he will dip his toe into the pool from his PC :D

[dodint]

Yeah, that last one looks a lot like some of the ones I was looking at on Newegg.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811854003&ignorebbr=1

https://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/ProductImageCompressAll1280/11-854-003-01.jpg?w=660&h=500

I like the combo of the fans up front and rear, and I do like the window on the side. I just don't need/want the fancy lighting.

But yeah, yours is pretty much exactly what I pictured.

Thanks for the help. :up:

[CudaMan]

I will buy Cuda's copy of F7 if he will dip his toe into the pool from his PC :D

Gotta get a decent PC first. :) I want to get back into sim racing, though not as h4rdc0r3!1 as before. Plan has been GT Sport of course, and iRacing. Dunno if I'll have the budget to do it properly - plastic G27 on rickety desk with single monitor doesn't quite keep my interest anymore now that I've been spoiled by proper simulators and real forces.

I'll PM you about F7 to keep this thread sort of on topic...

[dodint]

I've been spoiled by...real forces.


Obviously I'm not close to your experience at all, but the Mustang is the first car I've ever tracked. When I went back into iRacing after tracking this summer I kept blowing every single turn after a long straight because I couldn't tell at all what was happening with the brakes. I might look into tying a subwoofer into the telemetry once I get back up.

[thesameguy]

It probably sounds stupid but my biggest hurdle to building my own is the mental block I have against paying retail for Windows.

You're not alone... Every computer in my house has gone from homebrew to Dell because I save $100-$200 not buying Windows. It was *almost* a wash buying an Alienware Aurora vs. building my own - about a $250 difference as a retail GTX1080 was insane at the time... but then another $200 for 10 Pro. $450 was not ignorable. The difference becomes quite stark buying from the Dell Outlet - and I would have bought the Aurora refurb'd if one had been available.

FWIW, I have also found "used Dell" a lot easier to resell than "used homebrew." I got the same money for my very nice 4690k-based machine as I did for an XPS 8300 (i7-2600). Lame.

My days building PCs are, apparently, over.

I have not found many conservative-looking laptops - when you want a "gaming" laptop with high-end discrete graphics they tend to get wild. But, these exist:
Inspiron 15
Intel Core i5-7300HQ 2.5GHz Quad-core Processor
15.6" Full HD 1920x1080 IPS Anti-Glare LED-Backlit Display
8GB DDR4 Memory
256GB SSD
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050Ti 4GB GDDR5 Video Card

for around $800.

You can get *most* Alienware-level desktop stuff in the XPS 8910 or Inspiron. You can't get the water cooling and you can't get the super-high-end graphics cards, but there have been some crazy prices on competent desktops, eg

Intel Core i7-6700 Quad Core 3.6GHz CPU
2TB 7200RPM Hard Drive
16GB 1600MHz DDR3L RAM
AMD Radeon R9 360 2GB GDDR5 Graphics Card

for around $600.

[CudaMan]

It's part of a total immersion package for me. Real G-forces are expensive to emulate (and probably hard to get right) but I'd at least like to enjoy an interface with some weight and fast response to the steering, and heavier brakes, plus peripheral vision for a more accurate FoV.

GT Sport with a big TV mounted 2ft from the not-yet-released steering wheel was pretty cool. That's kind of my 'minimum' desired setup now. But I've never enjoyed a realistic view driving GT. Bumper cam for me. The cockpit view still doesn't sit right with me somehow.

[Kchrpm]

It's too bad they couldn't get VR working fully.

[XHawkeye]

How old is old? :) I've got a bit of an itch to modernize too, maybe with luck by the end of the year. I built this mid-range system in 2010, don't think I've upgraded it at all. The funny part is my phone has more RAM than my 'gaming' desktop!

8 years old, I started my first build on 10/23/09 with an i7 920 for 216.49 from micro center.

Only thing I've replaced is the PSU, and the only update was an 650Ti back in '13.

Now I'm ready to start build #2. I've been on the bleeding edge of technology :lol: :p

[CudaMan]

Yup, that's proper old. :) I used to build a system or significantly upgrade every 3 years like clockwork. I even had plans to OC this processor after a while but never did do it.

I'm trying to even remember what it is... i5-750, 4GB RAM, Radeon 5870 as I recall.

[Reynard]

Does anyone sell Alienware level stuff without the ridiculous looking casings?

If you're still considering this route, you may want to check out Puget Systems or Main Performance. But yeah, doing it yourself isn't that difficult and like others here, I have a case that I swear I'll never get rid of.

Cuda, I'm guessing not but if you still have your oZone, I have the triple monitor adapters for mine sitting in the closet, likely to never be used again... so if you want 'em, just let me know and they're yours.

[dodint]

Learned a lot today, thanks.

I go on business trips several weeks a year. Portable F7 would rule. I just really need to ruminate on whether I want a gaming laptop or build a system as discussed here.

[CudaMan]

The Obutto is long gone - I gave it to an Indycar team member for the cost of shipping it when I moved to England. Thanks for your kind offer. :up: Not sure what kind of cockpit I may end up with in the future, but I have a feeling the days of my jerry-rigged desk are numbered.

Why aren't you using 3 monitors? Gone VR? [Clearly I've been out of the game a while!]

[Reynard]

Sadly no. I'm fully retired from sim racing at this point and flight sims are pretty much done with as well. I need to play games now where I can stop and take as many breaks as needed and/or not need to be constantly staring at the screen or else my eyes freak out. So now I primarily only play turn based strategy games, though Motorsports Manager (despite it's repetitiveness) has been a godsend in as much as it's a racing game that I can still actually play.

I've been very happy now with a single 27" 1440p monitor and without the :hard: sims in my life, don't really miss the massive footprint, extra heat, wires and power consumption that came with the triple setup anymore. I did have some really nice wallpaper for it though. ;)

[dodint]

When I was at Keiths the other day I did some research and for $1500 I can get a new Dell tower with a faster CPU, much newer video card, and Win10 Pro. I also looked at individual components to build up a new machine and there is a lot of noise in my analysis (no idea what a motherboard should cost, ranges from like $80 to $1400) but to me it seems like I'm just going to hit the easy button and order a new XPS from Dell.

[Tom Servo]

Heh, it's interesting what putting together your own system piecemeal does to your perception of cost. I thought $1500 seemed steep, but then I decided to add up all the bits of my system. I included the monitor in the pricing, and specs are basically a Core i7-7700k, 16 gigs of DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080 GPU, an add-on PCI-E card for four more USB3 ports, 850W PSU (which I now know is overkill), then added in the cost of the case, CPU cooler, thermal paste for assembling, the 512GB SSD and 3TB of spinning disks, and blu-ray drive. I used what I paid when I could find the order, otherwise I found the equivalent now (which was basically just the blu-ray drive, spinning disks, and case). Whole thing came out to about $2200. I've spent much more than I realized.

FWIW, the motherboard was $135.

[dodint]

For comparison, I'm currently spec'ing (Alienware Aurora, ended up being cheaper than similar XPS):

Win 10 Pro
460W PSU
i7-7700 Processor (4-Cores, 8MB Cache, Turbo Boost 2.0, up to 4.2GHz)
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1080 with 8GB GDDR5X
16GB DDDR4
256GB M.2 PCIe SSD (Boot) + 1TB 7200RPM
DVD Burner
Keyboard/Mouse

Coming in at $1,604 with my student discount. Reusing my existing triple monitors.

[Tom Servo]

Okay, if you leave out my monitor mine came to around $1,800 with more storage capacity but otherwise almost the same.

[dodint]

I can get another TB of HDD for $50 but I don't really see the need for my use. I have a 256GB SSD and 750GB now and the HDD has about 150GB used right now. The only reason I think I'd need 2TB of HDD space is if I retire my NAS drive. Also, I'm going for the smaller power supply so that's one less thing to power, I guess.

I pay for 100GB of GDrive space which diminishes me need a bit as well.

Factoring in the PSU alone you probably have the edge on Dell here.

One little oddball that bugs me about this machine is it doesn't have a SD card slot, which is how I transfer GoPro stuff. I'll just use a USB dongle but it was a feature I actually used a good bit on my old machine. Oh well.

[thesameguy]

I have been very happy with my Aurora - I opted for the overclocked & liquid cooled platform... the price premium was only a couple hundred bucks and hopefully keeps the system relevant for longer. You might consider checking out cheaper storage options and buying aftermarket if that's an option. Dell charges freaky premiums for storage, usually 2x market pricing. I went for a single 1tb drive on mine, then bought a 256gb m2 from Amazon and saved around $100 in the process. Granted, I did have to image the OS from drive to drive, but that's pretty painless. My total with the unlocked CPU, liquid cooling, bigger PSU, higher speed RAM was $1875. That was with a 6th gen processor, but pricing is typically about the same generation to generation.

If you're sticking with the locked CPU, check out the Outlet. The regular Auroras show up there regularly, usually $200-$400 less. I'm thinking I might get one for my dad for his birthday.

[dodint]

Thanks for the advice. Right before you posted I just hit the easy button (sitting in my Evidence class, just wanted to be done) and the system should be waiting for me when I get home Labor Day weekend.

Deets and how they charged out:

Alienware Aurora R6 Base $652.26
256GB M.2 PCIe SSD (Boot) + 1TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s (Storage) $214.00
NVIDIA(R) GeForce(R) GTX 1080 with 8GB GDDR5X $428.00
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700 Processor (4-Cores, 8MB Cache, Turbo Boost 2.0, up to 4.2GHz) $256.80
Warranty (compulsory) $53

Came to $1,604.

Other stuff:

Alienware USB Optical Mouse
Alienware Standard USB 2.0 Keyboard (English)
Killer 1535 802.11ac 2x2 WiFi and Bluetooth 4.1 $25
8x DVD+/-RW 9.5mm ODD
16GB DDR4 2400MHz
460W PSU Air Cooled Chassis
Windows 10 Pro (64bit) English

I have no idea why I bought an upgraded wifi module Better safe than sorry I guess.

It's going to be therapeutic going through my old computer stuff and cleaning house. The casing isn't very large, unfortunately, but I'm going to hold onto my 650W PSU just in case. The new one is modulare and the case is tight so I'm not going to automatically upgrade now, but if I have problems in the future I'll have it on hand to make stuff work. I can't dual-card my old GTX 770 to the new GTX 1080 so doubt I'll be needing more than the stock PSU but we'll see.

[thesameguy]

Be cautious with the Killer wireless - it has all sorts of problems under Windows 10 and with a variety of home routers. Highly recommended you uninstall the application immediately and leave only the drivers... it has a tendency to break internet connectivity or crash routers.

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=problems+with+killer+wireless&oq=problems+with+killer+wireless&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1.362.7255.0.7342.43.35.4.0.0.0.256. 3299.17j13j1.31.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..8.35.3342.0..0j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i20k1j0i10k1j0 i13k1j33i22i29i30k1.hZt-su1j3Kc

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=problems+with+killer+wireless&oq=problems+with+killer+wireless&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1.362.7255.0.7342.43.35.4.0.0.0.256. 3299.17j13j1.31.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..8.35.3342.0..0j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i20k1j0i10k1j0 i13k1j33i22i29i30k1.hZt-su1j3Kc

:smh:

I clicked BUY on my new XPS13 without realizing it was included and I've been regretting it for a month now. It won't wake up from sleep properly, big downloads inexplicably take forever. It's totally wack. I'm on the verge of sending it back.

That stock 460w PSU will probably do you fine forever. It's the same PSU as in the XPS, and I've run those in the office with all sorts of crazy things stuffed into the case. Like GTX 670s and such.

[dodint]

I'm going to blow away the OS and reload it with fresh Windows 10 anyway. Dell is the bloatware king and it only takes like 20 minutes to install Win10.

Win10 is pretty good at configuring new devices; when I did it with my old PC it took one reboot for the GTX 770 to be fully configured.

[dodint]

Thanks for letting me know, though. I forgot to deselect that option and didn't feel like going back into the configuration tool. Go figure that it might be a headache.

[thesameguy]

Yeah. There is nothing special about "Killer" hardware, it's just Qualcomm chips with some goofy shit thrown on top. I'm sure there is money changing hands for moving that product. I remembered to remove it from the Aurora but forgot on the XPS.

I'm still messing with it and haven't thrown in the towel yet, but I got really frustrated last night. Like, it doesn't even have an option to disable power saving in the driver like every other wireless device on the planet. I'm on the verge of being fed up - I literally paid extra to create work for myself. I try to limit that behavior to crappy '80s cars.

FWIW, my Aurora came with essentially no bloatware. I uninstalled two or three components of Dell's support software and the free version of McAfee but it was otherwise pretty clean. The same was true of my Alienware Alpha. Took maybe six or eight minutes. I think Dell smartly keeps crap on the Alienware systems to a minimum - h4dc0r3 gamers aren't going to suffer framerate loss quietly and Dell doesn't need that bad press.

[Yw-slayer]

Yeah, the Killer network equipment is crap. I always disable mine and use the Intel one.

[dodint]

Called Dell's order modification department as I only placed my order yesterday and it's not in production. To switch from the Killer Wifi card back to the Intel card I would have to cancel my order and call back in a few days to re-submit the order. Yeah, no thanks.

I'll do what I can with the Killer stuff. Dump off the software and see how it goes. Worst case I'll swap the old wifi card out of my XPS and use that, though I think I'd be giving up Bluetooth. Absolute worst I'll buy a wifi card on my own.

Absolute absolute worst I'll run cat-5 down the hall and up the stairs in perpetuity. ;)

[thesameguy]

If you wanna try, you could consider calling to just cancel the order. As often as not, they'll at least offer a discount for keeping it. You won't get a different wifi card, but you might save $100+. If they won't, offer the discount, just cancel and replace?

[dodint]

I had it timed perfect. I'm out of town until next Saturday, and the PC is being delivered between Wed-Fri. I'm not shifting that past the holiday weekend because of a wireless card. If I could catch it, cool, but I couldn't so I'll just deal with it. Just annoys me that I didn't even mean to buy it in the first place. ;)

[Yw-slayer]

Yeah, for USD25 it's no big deal. Just be careful with it, and if it really sucks, just pick up another wifi card (since you seem to need wifi).

Also, my old Killer experience was with the Ethernet chipset built into my MB. It was still rubbish, but hopefully you'll have better luck just running it as a basic 2x2 wifi card!

[XHawkeye]

The only thing I don't like about Dells is their custom cases with swingout power supplies and the like and where to stuff my 3 hard drives. But when it arrives all you got to do is plug it in and it'll work.

I'm going to spend half a day assembling & installing stuff on my home built (when I finally pull the trigger) and if something doesn't work then I get to troubleshoot, RMA if needed and yada yada....

Money wise my parts list has crossed $1200 barrier (was $1075 but then one starts adding & improving stuff...) without a GPU.

When you consider time/effort a Dell is a better deal but not as much 'fun'. Plus they're only charging you $428 for a 8gb 1080 while the cheapest one on Newegg is $510.

[thesameguy]

Fun was when installing the CPU took 12 jumper settings and one wrong move meant you were out $600. Fun was when you had to figure out what IRQ settings to choose for each card to avoid conflicts. Fun was spending hours tuning config.sys to maximize reserved memory. Ain't nothing fun about building modern computers. Plug the thing in the only place it goes and then turn it on? Nothing fun there.

[Yw-slayer]

Honestly, I think the current level of BYO computers is enough "fun" for me. There's always software if you want to have more "fun".

#kidsnowadaysdon'tevenknowthey'reborn

[thesameguy]

CONFIG.SYS OR NOTHING.

[Tom Servo]

Oh god I don't miss IRQ settings.

[Yw-slayer]

Ah, the good old days of GRAVIS SOUNDSCAPE v SOUND BLASTER PRO.

[JoshInKC]

Fun was when installing the CPU took 12 jumper settings and one wrong move meant you were out $600. Fun was when you had to figure out what IRQ settings to choose for each card to avoid conflicts. Fun was spending hours tuning config.sys to maximize reserved memory. Ain't nothing fun about building modern computers. Plug the thing in the only place it goes and then turn it on? Nothing fun there.

QFT

[novicius]

Man I do NOT miss messing with hardware/software. :popcorn: #consolemasterrace

[GreatScawt]

I gotta say, researching parts and prices and building my PC was a great experience. And it was really easy. Sure you have to troubleshoot here and there, but it's been rock solid otherwise. Much easier than it used to be, like TSG mentioned above. :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

Ah, I remember I bought a Wave Blaster. And for my friend's birthday a bunch of us got together and bought him the Roland equivalent, which was awesome.

[thesameguy]

Ah, the good old days of GRAVIS SOUNDSCAPE v SOUND BLASTER PRO.

No joke, I still have a Gravis Ultrasound. That thing was magic - full Gravis support, full Sound Blaster Pro support, plus user-uploadable wavetables. Talk about a hardware disaster! IIRC it used three IRQ setting (one for Gravis, one for Sound Blaster, one for wavetable) and two DMA channels. Plug that in, all your shit is gone. And then like 256kb of drivers that just obliterated your reserved memory. So pretty, and played the shit out of DooM. Making it work with VLB video cards was nutso, but what a sense of accomplishment when you did. And that's what I'm talking about... when there was real engineering, real planning, and a real chance of failure. Building computers today is more trophy for trying bullshit. 30 minutes of plugging stuff in, turn it on, let some software auto-overclock, then install Windows off some single piece of media. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO FLIP 13 DISKS! Why bother?

[dodint]

:lol:

So many memories. Never built a machine that far back but did a fair amount of 'fixing' them.

DOOM II, NHL96, and NASCAR Racing by Papyrus. All DOS gems.

[CudaMan]

Those were so not the days. :angry: ;) It has been 7 years since I built a computer, but I'll take 2010-era builds any day of the week. The bullet I dodged then was my RAM luckily being just short enough to fit under the massive CPU cooler fins.

[thesameguy]

Sounds like it was pretty touch and go. :smh:

:p

[CudaMan]

I paid my dues in DOS, I'm happy to be done with it. :)

[thesameguy]

I had to explain to a tech guy here what the "black box where you type commands" was once. He did not last long.

[CudaMan]

Millennials ruin everything!

[Yw-slayer]

Ah, triple irq channels... Bloody SwiftKey didn't even recognise the term!!

Tsg, did he quit in disgust when you told him "There's no app for that"?

[thesameguy]

No, just a blank stare, like "what would you use that for?" BEING A MAN.

[Yw-slayer]

That's no tech guy. It's a tweetspacebookman!

[Alan P]

I remember having a specific bootdisk for TIE Fighter so you have enough EMS memory. or maybe it was XMS!

[Rare White Ape]

This is all months away for me, considering the cost involved.

But...

This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daMmjNodOJ0), which I posted in the Project Cars thread, has slowly but surely given me an itch that I need to scratch. Suddenly I need a new wheel, a racing seat, a VR headset, and a PC.

I've still got my old Driving Force Pro from the GT4 days so that can be upgraded later. Just need to decide if I want a T500 or a G29.
I can buy an HTC Vive from work on a staff discount (http://www.harveynorman.com.au/computers-tablets/computers/gaming-pc-and-vr/htc-vive-virtual-reality-kit-consumer-edition-version-2-coal-black.html) (maybe) so I'm sorted there.
If somebody has any leads on a racing seat that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, please let me know. I literally don't care how cheap or shitty they get.

Which leaves the most important component: the PC itself. I want a small form factor machine that will fit in a TV stand, and I don't want it to look like some shit house 3XTR3M3 gaming rig. I love, love, love the simple design of the Xbox One S, so something along those lines would be what I am basing this on.

The easiest route for me, since I've never built my own PC before, would be to buy an MSI Trident (like this one (https://www.kongcomputers.com/product-detail/desktops/msi-trident-3-arctic.aspx)). It has pretty much got everything I need, and is probably even over-specced* for running racing games in VR.

*Said no one ever

Inside it has an i7-7700, 16GB RAM, a GTX1070, as well as plenty of storage and all the I/O you want for a reasonable price, although I haven't been able to spec-out an equivalent build-it-yourself solution to compare. I could probably go with an i5 chip instead of the i7 without hassle, because all of my gaming happens on a TV at a maximum of 60Hz, the only variable being that I will upgrade to a 4K TV sometime soon. Ultra framerates, while nice, just aren't a factor for me. Any overhead will be used for more pixels or image quality down the track.

What do you guys think of the Trident? And what would you build if you were heading down a similar path of small but smart looking gaming PCs?

[Tom Servo]

Keep in mind that while your TV is at 60Hz, both the Rift and Vive will want to run at 90Hz. They both will do frame interpolation to simulate 90Hz if you can only get between 45 and 90, but anything below 45 is going to probably make you want to vomit.

Pretty much everything runs easily at 90 for me except for a couple of tracks in iRacing if I have the visuals cranked up too high. Le Mans and Spa are notable ones where I see the framerate drop to 45 pretty regularly.

[Rare White Ape]

Ah yes, that's good to be aware of. It'll have to render two 1080p-ish frames 90 times a second instead of one 60 times a second.

Just curious; is there generally a direct relationship between the ability to play 4K/60 and 1080p/90 in VR? Because 4K is four times the resolution of 1080p, and assuming it can do 4K/60 without a hitch, that would make it pretty easy for a PC to put out a solid 90fps in VR wouldn't it?

[Tom Servo]

I honestly have no idea. I always assumed that the resolution had to do more with just the throughput of the GPU while the detail had to do more with the processing power of the GPU. That said, I base this on a couple of articles I read 15 years ago in questionable video game magazines.

[XHawkeye]

This is a DIY PS2 style

https://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/ProductImageCompressAll1280/11-352-059-01.jpg?w=660&h=500


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMtl7B0-wyI

Video starts @ 1:19 (https://youtu.be/TMtl7B0-wyI?t=1m19s)

[Rare White Ape]

That's a good looking build. And it takes a full size graphics card, so that's very helpful.

I'm at work today and it turns out we sell most of the things I want, so I priced a few things up at chump price vs staff price. I mostly deal with furniture here, IT is a very different department.

We've only got the lower-spec Trident with an i5 and a GTX1060, but even then it looks like I'll save close to $750 on a $4000 outlay, bringing it down to $3250. Add roughly $500 for the up-spec pooter with the i7 and 1070.

At least buying a wheel is an easy decision. Being both a PS4 and XBone owner (XBoner???) I'd have had to really decide whether I get an Xbox or PS4 wheel, but with MS bringing their major first-party racing game releases to PC it means I can use a PS4 wheel in Forza 7 without an issue.

Which naturally leads into that eternal question: why bother with the XBone if you can have a better quality experience on a beefy PC, especially if you've got the hardware already and aren't averse to paying 5x the price.

BUT… gotta pay off some credit cards first!

[Yw-slayer]

Pay off your credit cards first. Then get an i5 with a 1070. Don't bother with an i7.

Again, however, pay off your credit cards first.

PAY OFF YOUR CREDIT CARDS FIRST.

[Rare White Ape]

Yes dad :p

[drew]

:lol:

More Lego, god damn it!

[XHawkeye]

Another PS2, handle is optional.

https://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/ProductImage/11-163-287-01.jpg

SilverStone Milo Series ML08B-H (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163287)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L2NiR9cM-c&t=545s <-- YT video, not of the build, just talking the part list.

$1150 Super Portable Gaming PC (https://pcpartpicker.com/user/paulshardware/saved/fJ2RGX?ref=paul) <-- Parts List

[Yw-slayer]

Very good. Also PAY OFF YOUR CREDIT CARDS FIRST.

[thesameguy]

Just bear in mind credit cards can't be paid off unless you load them up first, so GET CHARGING.

[Rare White Ape]

I just want to be reasonably responsible.

My current thinking is to build it myself, and buy stuff a little bit at a time, while I pay off some debt a little bit at a time. It's much better that way, despite what the naysayers say.

I've only got about $3500 ticked up across two cards anyway, so it's not like I'm swimming in debt.

[Yw-slayer]

I would classify USD2,820 in credit card debt as a reasonable sum. I pay off all my cards in full at the end of every month. But hey, it's up to you!

[Rare White Ape]

I only pay about $20 a month interest, plus one of the cards has no fees, so I'm just up for $5 there. But interest is interest, and interest is the worst. As soon as I can, I'll try and get the debt onto one card (whichever is the cheapest) and only need to pay one off instead of two. Then I'll be on the highway to the PC MASTER RACE

[XHawkeye]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA-T43rbDEQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h91T3HwLYIw

[Yw-slayer]

Btw, DOOM and Mass Effect Andromesa running at 4K ok a 43" screen are truly things of beauty.

[Rare White Ape]

Look at this for a case. Hoo-lee shitballz.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG_FL-hgNaM

Inwin makes a lot of good stuff. I’m interested in their 301 micro ATX case.

But if I was in the market for a blingy RGB-a-geddon box then this would be the one.

[thesameguy]

That really is brilliant!

[GreatScawt]

Very cool. :up:
I believe I saw on Reddit in r/DIY someone made a coffee table using the same effect.

[MR2 Fan]

why just have one when you can have a whole box!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge_NQMGwdxQ


BTW, I've been thinking of making a small round infinity mirror for my (STILL TOP SECRET) business project...will see how it goes, should be pretty simple.

I also looked on ETSY....people are charging a TON for infinity mirrors on there!

[Rare White Ape]

Next-Gen Intel Nuc; fairly reasonably priced and well specced. Also VR capable.

https://youtu.be/rOTKgvPUXN8

Arguments for/against, other than that a custom PC may be cheaper and is upgradeable?

[Tom Servo]

Picked up a Samsung 960 EVO NVMe half terabyte drive. Hoping to basically just turn it into a dedicated Steam install drive.

[Tom Servo]

Okay. $240 for an SSD and they can't include the screw? I mean, the package was enormous compared to the size of the drive, there was plenty of room there.

FFS.

[Tom Servo]

Thank you local hardware store. Got a 2mmx4mm screw and we're in business. I still can't believe how tiny this drive is.

[Tom Servo]

Side note - I went to see if I could benchmark how the drive was doing and ended up using UserBenchmark (http://www.userbenchmark.com/). Drive's lookin' good, but it told me that my RAM was slow given my system configuration and offered some possible reasons, two of which turned out to be correct (I had them in the wrong slots for a two DIMM configuration and I hadn't enabled XMP for them in the BIOS). Making those changes saw a significant improvement in RAM speed.

[Blerpa]

So, I moved, once again. I now live in Bologna.
In the end of September I left from Siracusa with only my Sony smartphone and an old Samsung 7" tablet... it has been dreadful to not have a PC to use.
So in December I bought a refurbished HP Elitebook Folio 9470m (i5, 8gb ram, 180gb SSD, GPS, 3G sim slot), the version with the 14" 1600x900 display, amazed how sturdy and solid it feels. Only spent 340 euro for it, with 1 year warranty from the shop I got it.
It does everything well, although the display viewing angles are not that good and the Intel HD4000 integrated graphic card sucks.

During spring I'll go back to Sicily for a week of holiday and I'll try to get back to Bologna with my desktop PC... meanwhile I did spend 200 euro on Amazon and got myself this: http://eu.aoc.com/en/products/i2769vm
I'm loving the IPS panel.

EDIT: I was thinking to upgrade the Elitebook ram to 16gb but maybe I'll wait to bring up here my desktop and first upgrade its ram to 16gb, instead.

[dodint]

So, I moved, once again. I now live in Bologna.

Not really related to your post, but I still hope to come visit with you one day. Looks like our next chance to get to Europe for vacation won't be till 2020. :(

Unless we move there, of course.

[Rare White Ape]

Hey an old notebook with integrated graphics is still good for playing Richard Burns Rally and GTR2 in 1080p. Half-Life 2 maybe? Its usually on-sale on Steam for $2.50 if you haven’t got it.

[Blerpa]

It's quite speedy, the only thing holding it back is the graphic card: I've installed Cuphead (but I don't have my joypad here), Motorsport Manager, Steamworld Heist and Diablo 3 (which is almost ok with low setup).
I've played HL2, Ep2 and Ep3 to death back in the days, so I'll skip those.

Nate, one day we will meet ;)

[drew]

Ang, we're planning on an .it trip this summer. I'll keep you posted.

[Rare White Ape]

It's quite speedy, the only thing holding it back is the graphic card: I've installed Cuphead (but I don't have my joypad here), Motorsport Manager, Steamworld Heist and Diablo 3 (which is almost ok with low setup).
I've played HL2, Ep2 and Ep3 to death back in the days, so I'll skip those.

You can also try Scribblenauts, Hyper Light Drifter, Shovel Knight and Super Meat Boy :)

[drew]

My Z97 Mobo went tits up on Sunday....

So I thought, ok, I'll just find another 1150 board, so I can re-use my 4790K and 32gb ram...

Oh, how naive of me.

So I buy a Z370. Which is an 1151 Intel, and DDR4. So I buy an 8700K Coffee Lake, and 32GB DDR4.


THEN I find out that Windows 7 doesn't work with that.

So I bought Windows 10. This was all in the span of 2 days. fucking hell.

I also got a Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SSD, and a COrsair H1001 Cooler... I guess "cheap fix" wasn't in the cards.

Basically, I built an entirely new machine, minus the spare drives, case and GPU. I ended up not even using the new SSD, I may try to take it back. I've got an 840 in it now. I bought it in case there was a way to save shit on it. $150 "what if".

I've not dicked with Windows 10 enough yet to have a verdict, other than I miss my classic theme immensely.

I've done fuck all with overclocking/etc, probably won't. Maybe that novelty's finally worn off. CPU is 3.7/4.something boost. I may round that up to 4.0 base and call it a day.

I'm just wondering how many of my other programs won't work now.

[DelSolMan]

Haha. This is cool:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/621060/PC_Building_Simulator/

[Alan P]

Haha. This is cool:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/621060/PC_Building_Simulator/

Apparently has 'realistic pricing' so your graphics card charges go up by 10% week on week and RAM doubles in price every six months!

[Tom Servo]

My Z97 Mobo went tits up on Sunday....

So I thought, ok, I'll just find another 1150 board, so I can re-use my 4790K and 32gb ram...

Oh, how naive of me.

So I buy a Z370. Which is an 1151 Intel, and DDR4. So I buy an 8700K Coffee Lake, and 32GB DDR4.


THEN I find out that Windows 7 doesn't work with that.

So I bought Windows 10. This was all in the span of 2 days. fucking hell.

I also got a Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SSD, and a COrsair H1001 Cooler... I guess "cheap fix" wasn't in the cards.

Basically, I built an entirely new machine, minus the spare drives, case and GPU. I ended up not even using the new SSD, I may try to take it back. I've got an 840 in it now. I bought it in case there was a way to save shit on it. $150 "what if".

I've not dicked with Windows 10 enough yet to have a verdict, other than I miss my classic theme immensely.

I've done fuck all with overclocking/etc, probably won't. Maybe that novelty's finally worn off. CPU is 3.7/4.something boost. I may round that up to 4.0 base and call it a day.

I'm just wondering how many of my other programs won't work now.

This is almost exactly what happened to me when I bought the Oculus Rift, only I also bought a new GPU.

[drew]

I got a 1080 about 5-6 months ago....I was tempted to get a ti, but that was just silly.

[Rare White Ape]

That's only a few % improvement for many hundreds of $.

But it would go well with the i7.

Though if you had that combo, you'd be small-dickin it without an M.2 drive and RGB lighting and DDR5 and custom hardline water cooling.

[drew]

Thought about an M.2 drive.

Fuck RGB lighting - I've got all lights off on mine
and
Fuck DDR5
and
Fuck custom hardline water cooling.

The only "problem" I have now, is having an i7 4790k, 32GB of DDR3 RAM, and nothing to do with it. Suppose there's craiglist. Maybe I can get a handy out of the trade.

[Rare White Ape]

Do you also have a surplus of crab meat in your fridge and a miniature train set?

[drew]

Real crab meat and Lego. Close enough.

[Rare White Ape]

There’s news around the campfire that states that Intel will release its own line of GPUs in 2020. Now, I thought that Intel bought into nVidia right around the time when AMD bought out ATI, thus creating a mighty fine CPU-GPU duopoly. Seems that’s not the case and Intel wants to go play in the sandpit.

Intel has been cruising a bit in the last few years, while AMD’s professor line has not really given Intel a reason to try harder, and with Ryzen on the market, all Intel has to do is release a new processor generation with just a bit more speed at a more competitive price and they’re magically on top again. It seems like they’ve got a lot in reserve for the moment in the CPU market, so where will this lead in terms of GPU development?

I’m thinking that they will come out swinging in the workstation GPU segment, and follow soon after with a decent range of gaming GPUs, but nVidia will quickly respond and lead us into a nice arms race for the next five years. We will have an affordable GTX1380 by then. Hopefully. Let’s see, huh?

[dodint]

I imagine cryptomining has something to do with this. Gaming PCs are no longer driving that segment.

[Blerpa]

So, my desktop PC crapped the bed (for once it was my fault, but I permanently fucked the Windows 10 OEM install in it and even with a pendrive it seems impossible to make it start to recover. Heck, as a convoluted mistake I managed to fuck the recovery partition in it. Note to self: 1) never again an Acer PC 2) never again a PC with stupid partitions in it).
So I'm thinking: buy a 120gb SSD, buy a cheap Windows 10 license (I've found a Retail Windows 10 Pro key at 17 euro in HRKGames sales), install Windows 10 in the new SSD and then try to salvage what is available on the 500gb mechanical HDD that came in the machine (split in two useless partitions) backup the salvaged parts, then format the mechanical HDD to a single partition and use it as normal.
Any fault in my reasoning?
(Pc is AMD A8-6500, 8GB DDR3, Thermaltake Berlin 630W, R9 270X OOC 4GB)

[Tom Servo]

Seems reasonable enough. The only thing to note is that I think by default Windows 10's store likes to install things to C: (and does so encrypted so apps like windirstat can't actually see them), and it's non-obvious how to change that. You also can't migrate apps to another drive, you can only set an install drive and then delete what you had and redownload. It should be under Settings -> System -> Storage. I only say that because I have Forza 7 on the PC and it takes up nearly 100gb at this point, which would almost completely fill your boot drive under default settings.

[Rare White Ape]

I believe that Windows is linked to your BIOS, so you may not even have to buy a new license. Just download an image and go for it.

[Tom Servo]

If that's true, I hope it's not too hard to link it to a different BIOS as I tend to upgrade motherboards every few years.

[Blerpa]

I ended up ordering a Kingston 240gb for the install, to be on the safe side.
RWA, yes, but I think I fucked up the part of the HDD in which Acer had put the Windows Recovery stuff. It's like... totalled.
I think I'll mount the SSD, see if the BIOS recognizes it, then install Windows by DVD or pendrive (but this last one failed me all the times I tried) and see if it works.
In case it reckons the virtual license in, I could be already sorted, otherwise I could spend 17 euro and get a Retail Windows 10 Pro and get away with the Acer OEM Home version.
I'm worried about why the PC does not actually recognize the pendrive with Windows 10 64bit created with Microsoft own Media Tools program.

I mean: I hope I don't have some problems in the mobo or something similar... no idea, bit perplexed about the whole matter.

[Blerpa]

So, the SSD arrived. Mounted, fiddled few times with BIOS, installed Windows (by a simple DVD imagine disk), it did work.
It also recognised my Windows 10 license in the PC, very nice.
I painfully used a recovery program (EaseUS Data Recovery Wizard) so I could save some of the stuff in the mechanical hard drive. Finished that I obliterated the partitions, wiped out the data and did a complete format of the HDD.
Now it works like a charm.

I wonder if I should upgrade the ram to 16gb: pc is sporting an AMD A8 6500, 8GB DDR3L, R9 270X 4GB OOC, 1 240gb SSD + 1 500gb HDD, Thermaltake Berlin 630W connected to an AOC 27" IPS Full HD display.
I do some gaming (Destiny 2, Doom, Skyrim Legendary, Grid Autosport, ecc.) and sometimes I use Photoshop and InDesign.

[Tom Servo]

RAM's pretty cheap, I can't see why you wouldn't.

[Rare White Ape]

New Nvidia hardware is looming. Workstation chips based on Turing architecture have been announced, and rumours are flying that the next GPU flagship, called the RTX 2080 (not GTX 1180) will be unveiled next Monday.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-nvidia-announces-turing-architecture-teases-rtx-2080

[Yw-slayer]

RAM's pretty cheap, I can't see why you wouldn't.
Yeah man, going to 16 makes a huge difference.

[Blerpa]

I will hold off buying it because of two reasons: we may be laid off after the 30th of September contract expiration so I don't feel like spending money with this trouble over my head. Also a friend of mine, IT for the hospital where I still work, has told me to wait buying anything, he may have some 2gb and 4gb DDR3 sticks unused at home to just gift me. Getting to a total of 14gb of ram for free? I'm sold, who cares about dual channel? LOL

[Alan P]

I will hold off buying it because of two reasons: we may be laid off after the 30th of September contract expiration so I don't feel like spending money with this trouble over my head. Also a friend of mine, IT for the hospital where I still work, has told me to wait buying anything, he may have some 2gb and 4gb DDR3 sticks unused at home to just gift me. Getting to a total of 14gb of ram for free? I'm sold, who cares about dual channel? LOL

Don't forget anything relatively new will need DDR4, not DDR3. I think you're talking i5/7 2x00 and older. Anything after than needs DDR4

[Blerpa]

My desktop PC is an AMD A8-6500 and my laptop has an i5 3437U... DDR3 territory. Plenty of PCs around are still running on DDR3... actually almost all my friends with gaming desktops have mobos with DDR3, bar one that has built a new PC recently. Ironically they have SSDs, i5 or i7 and new vga cards on them like GTX 1060 or 1070 but ram is older.

[GreatScawt]

Still rocking my same rig... SSD, i5-4690k, 1070FTW and two sticks of 8GB DDR3. Can play most things at 1440p, high settings, and good frame rates. For what's it's worth.

Also, I feel like RAM is definitely not cheap anymore. Prices have gone up since I last purchased. I purchased this (https://www.amazon.com/gp/your-account/order-history/ref=oh_aui_pagination_1_2?ie=UTF8&orderFilter=year-2015&search=&startIndex=10) in 2015 for $118.99. It's 2018 and $127.99. It was $151.99 just a month ago.

Also holy crap it was $58.99 at one point before skyrocketing back up. Sheeeit.

3118

[Rare White Ape]

Ok so Nvidia has unveiled its new RTX series of graphics cards, starting with the new RTX 2070ti available for $499 all the way up to the RTX 2080ti Founders Edition for $1199 (US pricing). Availability around late Sept-early Oct.

The cards will offer real-time ray tracing, demos of which you can see by clicking: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL-g3eGJi1omSDSz48AML-g

They’re gunna make your HDR monitors and TVs look reeeeeeeaaaallly good.

Another neat feature will be a USB-C VirtualLink port, for single cable VR headset connections.

Microsoft is offering up a DirectX Ray Tracing API called DXR and most of the big game engines will include some sort of Ray tracing support before the year is out. Game support will come from Battlefield V, PUBG, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Metro Exodus, Mechwarrior V, FFXV, etc.

Personally I love the super clean look of the case designs. The aftermarket brands will look rather more gaudy.

https://cnet4.cbsistatic.com/img/OgdULTSfwGDefNR93W0-RG_w4HA=/1600x900/2018/08/20/5fde2ba7-3fa2-42a5-b580-6eb81e242273/geforce-rtx-2070-gallery-c.jpg

[Blerpa]

Right on, so the market soon will be interesting: 1070 and 1080 cards in discount and used.
No need to spend such shitload of money on the new cards.
Raytracing aside... 2080 is pushing 14k gigaflops versus 10k gigaflops of 1080. Unless you play 4K and very intensive games you will be well served by 10xx cards or even 970 or 980.
Move along, not much to see here.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah the top end is way out of my market. A 1080ti sells for about $1300 here, while a 2080ti will be almost $2k.

I think prices for last-gen cards will stay roughly where they are, unless pressure from the cheaper 2070 forces prices to drop a little.

I think I’d probably go for a 2070.

Assetto Corsa Competitzione on UE4 with RTX support.

Maybe within the next 12 months…

[drew]

I've had a 1080 for 2 years (didn't think I had it that long). The 2xxx are intriguing. But I don't know what I'd do with the 1080.

The RTX cards look like beasts. (of course, that's always the case when a new gen comes out).

[Blerpa]

Yet so far it seems the new RTX can't do 4K at stable 60fps with most demanding games. Lame.

[Rare White Ape]

Really?

Is that with RTX on or off? Because surely the new 2080 would be able to do a stable 4K/60 on current non-RTX titles.

[Blerpa]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/08/21/nvidias-flagship-rtx-2080-ti-cant-hit-1080p-60fps-in-new-tomb-raider/#69e871e41558

Not even 1080p with 60fps.

[Rare White Ape]

That’s with RTX on. Keep in mind it’s the first time we’ve had this. Of course implementing this will create a performance hit.

I’ve seen a few very clickbaity YouTube videos highlighting the controversy (which I haven’t watched). Are these people upset that they’re not getting stable 4K/60 with RTX on, or is it because the potential for pure performance gains with RTX off over the last gen has made some compromise because RTX has been added to the hardware?

[Blerpa]

That’s with RTX on. Keep in mind it’s the first time we’ve had this. Of course implementing this will create a performance hit.

I’ve seen a few very clickbaity YouTube videos highlighting the controversy (which I haven’t watched). Are these people upset that they’re not getting stable 4K/60 with RTX on, or is it because the potential for pure performance gains with RTX off over the last gen has made some compromise because RTX has been added to the hardware?

I think they are, understandably, concerned at Nvidia's boastful hype of these new cards' performance in general.

[Tom Servo]

It's also one of the first titles to implement RTX, so presumably it's not as optimized as later titles will be.

Then again, it almost seems like the general consensus is that RTX causes a significant performance hit for Tomb Raider while simultaneously not really making it look much better. The Battlefield demo was definitely more impressive on that front.

[Rare White Ape]

I wonder what tricks they have under the hood for RTX. There is a new metric for giga rays per second (the 2070 can do 6, while the 1080Ti can do 1.21) so I wonder if there is any sharpening of the end result when using less rays, or some sort of voxel-like implementation. As noted, we are in early days for real-time ray tracing and as a result we will be seeing some novel tricks that are focused on getting more performance per frame that just isn’t required when using ray tracing in the traditional sense, such as when rendering frames for feature films that can take hours to process.

[Rare White Ape]

Here’s a nice video with some really good insight into the development of BFV from the engineers at DICE.

Based on what I’ve seen here, I don’t think there’s any question that a 2080Ti will be able to run this game at a stable 4K/60 within a few weeks of launch, when optimisations and drivers and updates are sorted out.


https://youtu.be/8kQ3l6wN6ns

[Tom Servo]

For non-RTX titles, the official word from nvidia is that the 20xx cards offer a 35-45% performance boost over the comparable 10xx cards for traditional 3D applications (e.g., 1070->2070, 1080Ti->2080Ti).

Have to see how RTX pans out. I've got a 1080 now and try to buy once every couple generations, not each generation. Raytracing had me rethinking that, but I'm not sure it's worth the cost for a ~40% boost, especially when everything I play right now is running really nicely at 4k.

[drew]

I'm thinking (not too seriously) about offing my 1080 and getting THAT card (the one you shouldn't have to upgrade for a few years).

I had a 680 for 5 years, got the 1080 2 years ago.

Brian, do you play Far Cry 5? I just grabbed the DLCs, my machine doesn't like 4k for that one. Assassin's Creed, runs 4k all day. But FC5 turns into a slide show. Hopefully Odyssey is similar to Origins, since I just pre-ordered it...

[TheBenior]

I thought games running like crap on PCs was Ubisoft's thing.

[Tom Servo]

Haven't played FC5, but I also tend not to play the newest/most graphically intensive stuff.

[drew]

Assassin's Creed runs fine at 4k. It just seems to be FC5.

I think I'm just looking for an excuse to spend/waste money on some new shit....

[Yw-slayer]

You could just pay off your credit card bills.

[Tom Servo]

Look at Captain Buzzkill over here.

[Rare White Ape]

Always on about credit card bills!

[Yw-slayer]

Save up for yer old age, you young whippersnappers. Also get off my lawn kthxbai

[Rare White Ape]

https://youtu.be/pgEI4tzh0dc

TL;DW version:

1) Yes they’re expensive, yes they don’t offer amazeballs increases in 4K-Ultra performance over 10-series hardware

2) But somebody has to start somewhere with new tech, rather than the usual incremental improvements

3) However DLSS might be the low-key game changer here for non-RT titles

4) But there’s no way to properly test it, since final games with full support are not on the market yet. No Tomb Raider, no BFV, no Metro Exodus. But the Star Wars Reflections demo looks nice on top-tier hardware (at 30fps!).

Are we finally on the cusp of consumer hardware that can run Toy Story in real time? All it needs is 24fps…

[Blerpa]

What I get from most reviews is: if you are RICH, and I mean rich, get the 2080 Ti.
In any other case, get the 2080, even over 1080 Ti.
If you don't play 4K, either get a discounted 1080 Ti or wait.

[Yw-slayer]

Just like everything related to PC gaming. Wait and you'll get better stuff for less money.

[Rare White Ape]

Well since I’m planning on building a PC in the very near future, I don’t already own a graphics card so a 2070 is a natural entry point.

If I already owned a 1080 or 1070 I’d be waiting for cards beyond these.

[Tom Servo]

I've got a 1080 and I'm definitely in a wait and see mode. I'm happy with the performance right now (though maybe not with the VR stuff), but it also sounds like it's not going to be a huge leap over what I have now, so I don't have a big urge to quite my usual "buy every other generation" cycle.

[drew]

I'm still teetering on the fence with it. While the games I play work fine with the 1080, I've always been of the "fuck it, why not?" mindset.

Considering I spent $700 on the 1080 2 years ago, I don't know if I'm "ready" to drop another $1200 on a new one. I doubt I could get more than $300 out of the 1080 (guy I work with has a son that games a lot, he's got a 1050ti at the moment, I would possibly be able to sell it to him).

[Blerpa]

So, I got a brand new mouse as who follow me on Facebook/Instagram may have noticed... an ambidextrous Razer Diamondback from Amazon Warehouse, for only 38 euro.
I went from my wireless Logitech mouse (Keyboard + mouse MK320 wireless kit) to a wired one, but it was worthy. And I needed an ambidextrous one as I usually play FPSes with my left hand while I use the right hand for anything else.
Very good grip, sensitiveness and precision: satisfied. And the mouse wheel click works way better than the one on my old Logi, had only to get used to the more elongated form of the Razer.

3136

Also a friend of mine working in IT gave away to me 2 stick of DDR3 ram. 4GB each... so I put them in my PC and now I've 16GB of RAM which is very nice to have.
They look weird as they are very thin, at first I thought he brought me the wrong memory type, but he then explained they are Low Profile size.
Indeed they fitted no problem on the motherboard and Windows recognized them right away. I've 4 + 4 + 8 sticks in three of the four slots available, but who cares about dual channel, 16GB instead of 8GB is good and is not like dual channel is that important compared to the memory change.
Only two things worry me. Minor thing is the two new 4GB sticks are PC3-10700 (so 667MHz) by Kingston while the old 8GB stick is PC3-12800 (so 800MHz) by Hyundai electronics... I suppose is no big as they will run at the lower 10700 frequency of the new ones.
Other thing, that I hope is not going to cause any problem is that the new 4GB sticks have a 1.5 voltage while the old 8GB stick has a 1.35 voltage as it is a Low Voltage ram: is that worrying, anyone?

So far my PC is:

AMD A8-6500 quad core
Thermaltake Berlin 630W 80 Plus bronze
16GB of DDR3 Ram as said just above
MSI R9 270X Twin Frozr 4GB GDDR5
Kingston 240GB SSD
Western Digital 500GB HDD (Sata-3 obviously)
AOC 27" 1080p IPS monitor (Display Port, HDMI and all that)

I've been eyeing RX 580 8GB prices over Amazon... but I'm waiting till Black Friday in case of some good sales. So far the prices are around 300 euro, which is a lot. Not convinced at all by same price 1060 6GB (the 3GB edition is terrible) vid card by Nvidia, the AMDs are superior in this price tier, and the RX 570 8GB is only 20-30 euro less than the 580, so why in hell skimp for just a little price difference?
I may cave in if I see a 250 euro price, or hopefully even less.
I reckon it is about the max I can buy for this PC, after this I'd be probably looking for a completely new one in few years.

[Blerpa]

So far, so good.
And... I found a brand new Sapphire RX 580 8GB Nitro + at 205 euro on Amazon France (the very same vid card is at 300 euro on Amazon Italy). So, I took the risk and ordered it: 212 euro delivery fee included; an 88 euro of savings.
Fingers crossed, it's going to arrive home next monday.
Possibly going to change the PSU too... eyeing a 62 euro Sharkoon 650W semi modular one.

[Blerpa]

https://i.imgur.com/aoULJt1.jpg

[Alan P]

Nice, should be a decent upgrade!

[Blerpa]

Nice, should be a decent upgrade!

Yeah, although with the A8 6500 CPU I'm limited by the processor which was already a slight bottleneck with the old R9 270X.
I may look into a Ryzen 5 new PC in 6 months from now... but so far so good: both the card and the PSU are amazingly silent compared to their older counterparts.

[Yw-slayer]

I realised that I shoild set up the rift in the living room. So I went and bought a 1060 and installed it in the htpc as that's small enough yet has an i5-4750S.

[Alan P]

I realised that I shoild set up the rift in the living room. So I went and bought a 1060 and installed it in the htpc as that's small enough yet has an i5-4750S.

3GB or 6GB?

[Yw-slayer]

6GB. Zotac amp model. Just fits.

[Blerpa]

6GB. Zotac amp model. Just fits.

Friend of mine is wary of Zotac because of bad experiences with it, but the 6GB Amp model is one of the most sold over Amazon in here, I'd say an actual classic.
6GB obviously, the 3GB version of 1060 is a monster... of mediocrity.

[Yw-slayer]

It seems fine so far. Anyway I am waiting for my small monitor to arrive as using a USB monitor means there is insufficient USB bandwidth for the Rift.

[Tom Servo]

I had great luck with Zotac cards in the past. Then again, I've never really had bad luck with any of known name brands of cards, Zotac, Asus, EVGA, whatever....

[drew]

I picked up (Amazon-delivered, technically) a Samsung U32J59 monitor yesterday. I still have the U28D590 as well (and two more of those at work). I like it. I think 32" is the sweet spot for 4k, in terms of legibility/etc. I can have it at 100% zoom and utilize the full resolution. I still have the 28" set to 125. picture wise, it's the same (great) quality the 28 is, just bigger. After buying the 1080ti a couple months ago, I think I'm done sinking money into this shit.

Until I get used to the bigger monitor and replace the two at work with 32s....

[Alan P]

Oops. I appear to have received an Acer Predator X34P from Amazon.

[Blerpa]

Oops. I appear to have received an Acer Predator X34P from Amazon.

I'd buy a new PC and even a new TV with the price of that monitor! :O

[drew]

Score!

[Tom Servo]

Yowza. I am pretty happy with my Acer Predator whatever-model-I-have, and that looks much fancier.

[Alan P]

I'd buy a new PC and even a new TV with the price of that monitor! :O

My Man maths kicked into overdrive when I saw how much it was reduced by. Most sites were selling for £900+ but Amazon price matched a retailer at £809.99 and in all honesty if it wasn't November I'd likely have bought at that price (or waited for the similarly specced Alienware to come onto a decent offer from Dell) but then when it dropped by nearly £200 (£639.99) I couldn't say no.

I also got a new Monitor arm and plan on building a new desk for it too.

[Alan P]

Sadly the monitor arrived damaged. :(

https://i.imgur.com/lnTOZR7.jpg

[Yw-slayer]

Damn. At least you found out right away!

[Alan P]

Was initially out of stock and I got a refund but is back in stock now so re-ordered.

[drew]

Luckily, out of the 10s of 1000s of dollars I've spend on shit in the last 15 years, I've only had two bricked parts out of the box. A power supply, and an H81 Asus motherboard.

I recycled my old desktop from home into a work desktop (because their laptops are absolute shit), and both of these were to build a new PC. I thought my Z97 was roached, but it came back to life. So the Asus wasn't necessary anyway.

Hell, I'm still using a 750W PC Power and Cooling power supply on my home machine, that I bought in 2005? I've used it on 7 builds since. I don't even know if they're still in business!

[Alan P]

Luckily, out of the 10s of 1000s of dollars I've spend on shit in the last 15 years, I've only had two bricked parts out of the box. A power supply, and an H81 Asus motherboard.

I recycled my old desktop from home into a work desktop (because their laptops are absolute shit), and both of these were to build a new PC. I thought my Z97 was roached, but it came back to life. So the Asus wasn't necessary anyway.

Hell, I'm still using a 750W PC Power and Cooling power supply on my home machine, that I bought in 2005? I've used it on 7 builds since. I don't even know if they're still in business!
Yeah this was the first item I’ve received damaged too. New one arriving tomorrow though!

[Yw-slayer]

PC Power and Cooling is old-school stuff, built to last. Props, man.

[21Kid]

https://www.theverge.com/good-deals/2018/12/5/18127235/amazon-pc-gaming-accessories-flash-drives-discount-sale

Lots on sale today

[George]

Gents, I could use some advice, please. My son is asking for a more powerful video card for Christmas.

I think buying a better card to replace an average card is silly when there's a justifiable "need" for another PC in the house...namely, that I can never get near the new Dell XPS8900 (I think that's the number) that I bought for "the family" a couple years ago.

And, for once, I'm not trying to go cheap. In fact, I'm willing to pay more (gasp!) to get a more powerful video card, as long as it's attached to a different computer. Now two can play instead of one, right? And maybe, for once, I can have something decent to use for myself, once in a while. My last old wreck running Linux finally died, or at least I'm not willing to put any more time in with the Disc Repair Tool on a bootable USB stick trying to repair stuff that I don't really understand.

So, in looking around for a general-purpose PC with a pretty decent video card, I stumbled upon these. There were six in stock when I checked on Thursday or Friday of last week. Now there are three. Is this a good deal, or should I keep looking and figure on spending more?

The only thing that gives me pause here is the processor, which I've never heard of. I bought a Dell Outlet PC a couple years ago and didn't even see anything that looked like this, yet the specs look okay to me, but all I know are specs. I don't have real-world experience in A vs. B.

https://www.microcenter.com/product/600023/precision-t3500-desktop-computer-(refurbished)

Intel Xeon W3565 Processor 3.2GHz; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB GDDR5; Microsoft Windows 10 Pro; 16GB RAM.

It's $600.00, in stock, and sold by a reputable company that I have always been happy doing business with. Great deal, or a foolish waste of money that should go toward something newer/better and with a longer useful life ahead?

[drew]

I've got a GTX 1080 sitting in the closet. Just saying... :)

[Alan P]

Gents, I could use some advice, please. My son is asking for a more powerful video card for Christmas.

I think buying a better card to replace an average card is silly when there's a justifiable "need" for another PC in the house...namely, that I can never get near the new Dell XPS8900 (I think that's the number) that I bought for "the family" a couple years ago.

And, for once, I'm not trying to go cheap. In fact, I'm willing to pay more (gasp!) to get a more powerful video card, as long as it's attached to a different computer. Now two can play instead of one, right? And maybe, for once, I can have something decent to use for myself, once in a while. My last old wreck running Linux finally died, or at least I'm not willing to put any more time in with the Disc Repair Tool on a bootable USB stick trying to repair stuff that I don't really understand.

So, in looking around for a general-purpose PC with a pretty decent video card, I stumbled upon these. There were six in stock when I checked on Thursday or Friday of last week. Now there are three. Is this a good deal, or should I keep looking and figure on spending more?

The only thing that gives me pause here is the processor, which I've never heard of. I bought a Dell Outlet PC a couple years ago and didn't even see anything that looked like this, yet the specs look okay to me, but all I know are specs. I don't have real-world experience in A vs. B.

https://www.microcenter.com/product/600023/precision-t3500-desktop-computer-(refurbished)

Intel Xeon W3565 Processor 3.2GHz; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB GDDR5; Microsoft Windows 10 Pro; 16GB RAM.

It's $600.00, in stock, and sold by a reputable company that I have always been happy doing business with. Great deal, or a foolish waste of money that should go toward something newer/better and with a longer useful life ahead?

The only problem with Dell's is they're not designed to be upgraded so changing the graphics card will likely entail changing the PSU. And then you'll need to check an upgrade will fit into the case as Dell cases tend to be designed to be just the right size for the components.

You'd likely get a way better experience from something like this (https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3859739) then convince Drew to sell you the 1080 at a good price as he has PC parts coming out of his ears. Windows can be had for <$20 legitimately and a mouse and keyboard don't need to be anything special. $25! (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4RE6DP8760&Description=keyboard%20mouse%20combo&cm_re=keyboard_mouse_combo-_-9SIA4RE6DP8760-_-Product)

[Blerpa]

It is a 2009 server CPU with a low end Nvidia graphic card, odd combo. Also it has no USB 3.0 and the 16GB of ram are probably old DD3.
I think 600$ is double what it is worth. I'd say go check Newegg or some other retail store.
I'd get an i5 7 series and a 1060 6GB at least (or a cheap RX 570 8GB) with a mobo capable of USB 3.0 and DDR4. Otherwise change the CPU with a cheap Ryzen 2400g or higher by AMD, for example.

EDIT: What Alan linked is perfect. Not familiar with the PSU and the case could be better, but quite decent built, I think.

[Blerpa]

I've got a GTX 1080 sitting in the closet. Just saying... :)

Fuck, if it wouldn't cost me a shitload in postage I'd buy that off you (no idea what it's going to cost, I'm just guessing).

[George]

Thanks, everyone! I really appreciate you guys taking the time to reply. More from me later...

[Yw-slayer]

Given we now know what you need it for, can I suggest you just post the link and some specs?

[George]

Of course. Here's what I have now. Sorry, I jumped into this with just a half-baked idea, per my usual modus operandi.

From post #162 of this very thread, I have:

Dell Outlet XPS 8900
Certified Refurbished
Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i7-6700 Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.0 GHz)
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 745 4GB GDDR3
Windows 10 Pro
16X DVD + RW Drive
16GB (2x8GB) 2133MHz DDR4 Non-ECC
2 TB 3.5-inch SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)

According to this link (https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/cty/pdp/spd/xps-8900-desktop?ref=PD_OC) at dell dot com:


Easy expandability
With 3hard drive bays and up to 2TB storage you’ll never be short on room and the option to add more later. Future upgrades are easier because the hard drive and power cord are included for each bay. With up to 4 DIMM slots, there is plenty of upgrade potential for more memory as well. (32GB and 24GB configurations use all slots).

Turbo-charged graphics
Trick out your machine with the latest graphics. The XPS 8900 has a 460W power supply that supports graphics upgrades up to 225W.


The only problem with Dell's is they're not designed to be upgraded so changing the graphics card will likely entail changing the PSU. And then you'll need to check an upgrade will fit into the case as Dell cases tend to be designed to be just the right size for the components.

That's what a coworker told me. Want to upgrade A? First do B and C and hope that doesn't affect D negatively, and so on...

Personally, I see no reason to upgrade the Perfectly Good Computer we already have and would rather buy another computer with a better video card. Then we would have two computers instead of one. To me, that is the "upgrade" for the household.

I'm going to spend some time at the Newegg site. I know my son would love a kit to build, and so would I.

Thanks again for the advice.

[Tom Servo]

You don't necessarily need a kit, these days PCs are *so much easier* to build than they used to be. It used to be you needed separate cards for audio, network, graphics, the printer, etc etc. In my machine right now, I have two cards, and one is just so I could have a few extra USB ports to support the Oculus Rift. I also do not miss IDE ribbon cables.

[Alan P]

You don't necessarily need a kit, these days PCs are *so much easier* to build than they used to be. It used to be you needed separate cards for audio, network, graphics, the printer, etc etc. In my machine right now, I have two cards, and one is just so I could have a few extra USB ports to support the Oculus Rift. I also do not miss IDE ribbon cables.

I was so pleased my new build didn't use a single Molex. I hate them. They're ANCIENT but still carrying on. I also don't miss IDE ribbon cables either!

[JoshInKC]

I'm weirdly nostalgic for ribbons and molex connectors, but that's because they were *just* being phased out when I was phasing myself out of building pc's and keeping up with hardware.
It's so bad that a few years ago I bought a new hdd, went to install it, and was momentarily puzzled by the lack of ribbon connector after I got it slotted into the case.

[Tom Servo]

I'm weirdly nostalgic for ribbons and molex connectors, but that's because they were *just* being phased out when I was phasing myself out of building pc's and keeping up with hardware.
It's so bad that a few years ago I bought a new hdd, went to install it, and was momentarily puzzled by the lack of ribbon connector after I got it slotted into the case.

Just wait until you get an NVMe drive.

[drew]

I just built an H370 (EVGA) (mini-ITX, those are fucking small!) with an i5-8600k on it, 16gb DDR 4 (2667Mhz) RAM, a 500GB SSD (and the case, DVD drive, Win 10 Pro, power supply, and Corsair H60i cooler) for about $850 all in.

Granted, I built it as a work desktop (to actually be used AT work), so it doesn't have a dedicated GPU, it's a pretty hefty upgrade over the shitbricks they give you for laptops....

Mini-ITX are fucking small!

I actually built it for her, I've already got my desktop (one I built a couple years ago, way overkill for work, but, again, better than the fucking anchors they give you).

This was the first time I'd bought a motherboard that was NOT a full ATX (or even E-ATX), so this was a change.

Mini-ITX is fucking Small! I had to disassemble and re-assemble it about 4 times, because I didn't plan out the connections in process (relative to access). Since I don't have toddler hands, I had to start over a couple times. By the time the RAM, PSU connectors, and Corsair cooler/fan/radiator were mount on it/above it, there's not much left to see. The cooler pump housing is about 1/8th the size of the whole board. I thought about plugging the 1080 into it, just for a laugh, since the GPU would be twice the size of the motherboard. There is still some comedic value though, I put it in a Corsair 200R mid-tower, of which it occupies about 7% of...

I toyed with the idea of just re-purposing my main machine at home for the work computer, and building another beast (i9-9900, 1TB SSD, 32GB Ram, yada yada), but I just built this one in May.

[Yw-slayer]

George, the computer you have is fine apart from the video card. But yes, if you can afford to buy a separate new computer with a better video card then do that by all means. Then you'll have 2 computers and you'll get the xps back.

I suspect a 1050ti or 1060 would probably be ok in your dell but you'd need to check power draw and dimensions. That said, it doesn't look like you have much attached to it to draw power, and if you're really worried about dimensions you can always get the cards made for mini-itx.

For reference I have a Silverstone Sg06 mini itx case which has a (I think) 450w psu and I just managed to fit a zotac mini gtx1060 into it for vr (it originally had a 750ti as it was meant to be an htpc). So I suspect you'll be fine.

[Blerpa]

The Dell you have is a better PC than the one you were proposing to buy. The RAM is slow but usable and the video card is not much of worth, also the PSU is surely shite, they always are on OEM PCs.
I'd stick a 1050 Ti in it if needed and buy another PC, your reasoning is sound.

The first and foremost important part of a PC is the PSU, no way around it. Also a brand name means nothing: being lately in the italian Tom's Hardware forum I've learned that there are plenty of Coolermaster (and other famous brands) shitty PSUs. Also Thermaltake PSUs (my ex-PSU was a Berlin 630W by them), just to make an example, has done three different iterations of some of their PSUs and according to the year and who made them (no PSU OEMs builds them in the house, but there are selected companies making PSUs for everyone in the market and then OEMs slaps their logos on it) they were either good or very shitty and prone to fry a motherboard with ease.

[Yw-slayer]

A psu brand name means something if it is a pc power and cooling brand psu. A few others like Enermax and Seasonic are also made by the companies themselves.

[George]

Thanks again guys. We may order a PC (or buy one locally at Microcenter) as soon as today, so this help is very valuable.

I see all these numbers for Nvidia video cards - 1050, 1060, 1080, etc.

Which is "best"? The higher numbers, I'm assuming, but there seems to be little rhyme or reason about what's offered with different machines or packages at sites like DellOutlet.com and Newegg. One machine will have a better something and a worse (or at least a lower-numbered) video card, but then the next will seem to have lower-end specs but a higher numbered card.

Or maybe a better question is this - what is the lowest card that I should consider buying here at the end of 2018? I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest, but I'd like to know the minimum we need in order to stay current for as long as possible. I hope to do better than the minimum, for what it's worth.

I can't seem to find a list of all the cards and their specs, including at Nvidia's own site! I see the RTX 2080 and 2080i, but nothing else. Let me guess: The 10xx cards are no longer made and I'm shopping stuff that's already "obsolete". :rolleyes:

I should probably just buy as much as I can afford and not worry so much about specs, but that's how I ended up with what we have. I see the games on our current Dell and think the graphics look amazing, but my son humorously says they're "trash".

I wish I could take him back in time to when I was a boy and trying to pry a quarter out of my Dad while on vacation so I could play the Night Driver machine in the hotel lobby.




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HarmfulWastefulArrowworm-size_restricted.gif

[dodint]

Night Driver. Amazing.

[Tom Servo]

I don't know much about how AMD names their cards, but for a while Nvidia has done it where the last two numbers denote where the card lies in the generation, and preceding numbers are the generation. E.g., a 1080 is a faster card in its generation than a 1060 (80 vs. 60, with 10 being the generation), and a 2080 is the newer version of the 1080 (same level at 80, but newer generation (they leapt from from 10 to 20 for some reason). Then they usually come out with a "Ti" edition at some point, that's a faster version of that card, so a 1080 Ti is faster than a 1080.

The 20 series just came out and are promising real-time raytracing, but almost no games use it yet and it makes for a big performance hit. In the meantime, I think they weren't as big a leap over the 10 series as people were hoping, especially for the price. Personally, I'd say a 1060 would be my minimum for something that'll last for a bit. I've got a 1080 now and it handles pretty much everything I throw at it, but I also don't tend to play the newest of the first person shooters or anything. It does run Forza Horizon 4 at 60fps in 4k with most everything cranked up, so it'll do the trick. You can definitely find a ton of 10 series cards all over sites like Amazon, Newegg, etc, there's no shortage at the moment.

In the meantime, this site might be helpful: https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/ At least according to that site, the 2070 outperforms the 1080 by a bit for about the same price.

[Blerpa]

The 1050Ti is the reeeally cheap budget card. The 1060 6GB (Steer clear of the 3GB, it sucks majorly in every sense) is good for solid Full HD (1080p) gaming at 60hz (Its counterpart on AMD is the RX 580 8GB - more ram, slightly bit quicker in general, quicker with DirectX 12 games but almost double the wattage needed). Then you have the 1070 from Nvidia for barely 2K gaming. The 1070 Ti that is a different card and for decent 2K 60hz. Anything higher (1080 Ti, 2070, 2080, 2080 Ti) is for real gamers and the only cards able to play almost decently 4K.

So 1060 6GB (with at least 2 fans - mono fan cards are noisy and can overheat easier) minimum as Bryan said.
Drew used 1080 is a no brainer. I would have already bought it from him like yesterday if I was in North America.

Otherwise a 2070 is better than a 1080 (normal one, NOT the Ti version) *if* you can find one at the same price.
2080 and 2080Ti are a waste of money for your usage and, also, are experiencing overheat and other issues... Nvidia new series 20xx is not as worthy as it seems (Also upcoming 2060 and lower cards won't have raytracing capabilities - basically a revamp of last years 10xx low end cards).

[George]

Thanks for those last two posts, especially.


Steer clear of the 3GB, it sucks majorly in every sense

That is the kind of advice a dummy like me needs. :lol:

I'm going to print those last two posts and stick 'em in my pocket for my visit to Microcenter after work.

[George]

Night Driver. Amazing.

It was! It had a steering wheel and a gearshift and everything! :rawk:

https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.com/57459bd0-2cdd-42e9-be98-a6f0013e34af/4aaf8c0e-3beb-4cfe-e07a-f05f8434ef44/original.jpg

[Alan P]

As my learned Italian friend has advised the 1060 6Gb and the AMD RX580 (or 590) are very respectable 1080p cards.

[dodint]

George: http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?64364-FS-iRacing-PC-Dell-5680

That may be of interest. There are a couple of us on there so if you were interested I'm sure we could work it out. I'd PayPal the guy and have it shipped to your place, for instance.


If anyone is interested in getting into iRacing for cheap and doesn't want to build a PC I have a brand new Dell gaming PC for sale. It's a Inspiron 5680, VR ready, i5 8400, NVIDIA GTX 1060 3GB, 8GB RAM, 1TB HD, etc.

Got it in a sale. Retails for $799, will take $675.00 + shipping or pickup from me near Atlanta. Will take PayPal or cash in person. Literally in the box, sealed. I can open it for photos if needed.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-gaming-desktops/inspiron-gaming-desktop/spd/inspiron-5680-gaming-desktop/ddcwblsk103h

[Blerpa]

VR Ready with a 1060 3GB? LOL

[dodint]

I'm positive it could render Night Driver.

[Freude am Fahren]

I don't think iRacing is very demanding even in VR?

I'm thinking about building a new PC sometime soon. Currently still rocking the PC I built in 2010 (11?). It holds up well considering. i7-2700k, 16GB DDR3, EVGA 770 4GB (my only upgrade, from the 570 I originally built it with). But I'd like to get into VR/UltraWide and/or 4K stuff, so I'm thinking maybe do it a little at a time. New MoBo, Processor and RAM (and maybe AOI water cooler?) and going to M.2 boot drive, while keeping the 770, case, multiple SSD's and HDDs, and PSU (850W, should be good until it dies) for now, and going 20xx route later once prices start to come down (if ever).

[dodint]

To be fair to Ang when I scanned the specs on that machine I posted I thought it had a 1080.

[Blerpa]

To be fair to Ang when I scanned the specs on that machine I posted I thought it had a 1080.

It's ok, I mean, we are used to brands and stores exaggerating on products' capabilities, aren't we?

FaF, wait for second series of the new 20xx cards... so far they are not that great (yes, they are the fastest on the market), Ray-tracing on almost slows them to a crawl and they are experiencing various issues (overheating, ram problems and so on).

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, ray tracing is 'neat' in BFV (by the way, a new patch apparently greatly improves performance), but it will be awesome when it makes its way to sims.

[George]

George: http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?64364-FS-iRacing-PC-Dell-5680

That may be of interest...

Thanks for thinking of me. I don’t think that’s the one for me but I appreciate the opportunity.

I think I have determined that a 1060 6GB with two fans will fit in our current machine and wouldn’t need a new power supply.

Currently considering that vs. a whole new PC.

I know what I’d like to do, if I wasn’t concerned with cost and not setting future expectations too high - buy both! :D

[Blerpa]

Was this one, right?

Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i7-6700 Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.0 GHz)
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 745 4GB GDDR3
Windows 10 Pro
16X DVD + RW Drive
16GB (2x8GB) 2133MHz DDR4 Non-ECC
2 TB 3.5-inch SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)

A 1060GB 6GB would be fine. If you could put a 120 or 180GB SSD in there (obviously it would take a Windows new install) along with the 2TB for games and media storage... well, it would fly! Cheap SSD can be had for 40 dollars... Crucial, Sandisk, Kingston, Drevo, ecc.

[Tom Servo]

Agreed, given what's in that system, a good video card and an SSD (or two) would make it a serious gaming machine. I kinda like a really quick but small SSD for Windows, then a larger but not quite top of the line for games, then a spinning disk for things like docs, pictures, music, video, etc. Even half-terabyte 860 Evos don't cost all that much money these days.

[Freude am Fahren]

This video just came up in my feed, could be useful.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wuzND41q3g&ab_channel=LinusTechTips

[George]

I will have to reinstall Windows? This is news to me. I’m probably going to Microcenter today, so I’ll ask them, but I figured new hardware was plug-and-play these days.

Edit: oh, The OS goes on the SSD. I get it now...

(No experience with SSDs)

[Freude am Fahren]

I'm trying to figure out if I'll need to purchase windows again. I bought a retail version of 7 Pro, which I upgraded to 10 during the free upgrade.

It seems clear you can transfer your license of a retail version of windows to a new build, but there seems to be conflicting answers out there about if you have a Win10 Upgrade.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, you can definitely transfer a standard Windows 10 license over - the only thing that might come up is if you change enough hardware, they may make you call support to prove who you are. I've not had any issues, though.

[dodint]

Unrelated but interesting, you can still upgrade an old Win 7/8 machine to Win10 for free. Microsoft never turned off the activation servers, they just stopped advertising it. I have a refurbished Win8.1 business laptop coming in I'll upgrade in upon receipt.

[George]

Thanks again to everyone for your help, including specific reasons to buy X and not Y. That was very valuable to me, as is getting advice from folks I feel as if I know rather than total strangers anywhere else.

With my wife's blessing, I went to buy something yesterday and be done with it. I tend to be a last-minute Christmas shopper but I didn't want to be left with the dregs that nobody else wanted if we waited until next weekend to buy a complete PC.

I seriously considered buying an ASUS Dual GeForce GTX 1060 Overclocked Dual-Fan 6GB GDDR5 PCIe Video Card (https://www.microcenter.com/product/467997/dual-geforce-gtx-1060-overclocked-dual-fan-6gb-gddr5-pcie-video-card) for $230.

And, by reciting my machine's specs from my iPhone from this very thread, a guy at Microcenter said this Samsung 970 EVO 250GB MLC NAND M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (https://www.microcenter.com/product/506236/970-evo-250gb-mlc-nand-m2-2280-pcie-nvme-30-x4-internal-solid-state-drive) for $80 would fit my current machine. He said I'd have to find out for myself if two SSDs would fit, but he was sure that one of them would.

So, I could upgrade our current Dell for $310.00 (or more with a larger or multiple SSDs), but then I'd still want to buy another PC for the family (meaning mostly me), and of course I would have settled for some old wreck or low-spec cheapie on which I could install Linux Mint or Ubuntu. Heck, I still will if I stumble upon another old PC that someone is getting rid of. They're fun.

I probably didn't make the perfect choice or get the very best deal, but after much pacing and thinking and weighing our options of upgrading the older machine vs. buying a new PC, I bought this (https://www.microcenter.com/product/514034/g316-gaming-desktop-computer).


Intel Core i5-9600K Processor 3.7GHz
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070
Microsoft Windows 10 Home
16GB DDR4-3000 RAM
250GB SSD + 1TB HDD

The PowerSpec G316 desktop computer is a powerful gaming machine featuring the Intel Core i5-9600K Unlocked processor, ASRock Z390 Pro 4 System Board, a 250GB Solid State Boot Drive plus a 1TB Storage Drive, and an Nvidia RTX 2070 8GB discrete video card to provide an incredible experience playing the most demanding games in the market today! Note: This system is preinstalled with Windows 10 Home software.

PowerSpec is Microcenter's store brand. It's a huge box and has the transparent panel on one side to show the innards. And, it came with a code to download Battlefield V for free, if I understand correctly. We'll see after Christmas. I also bought some ESET anti-virus and parental control software, which seems to work well on my wife's laptop.

I read what you guys said about the RTX 20xx cards, but that was about all they had in the gaming computers. To make a bicycle analogy, trying to find anything less would be like trying to buy a good new bicycle without an 11-speed gruppo and disc brakes. Technology marches on.

Thanks again for all the advice and patience with my dumb questions.

[dodint]

Glad you pulled the trigger and got it behind you. :up:

[Tom Servo]

The 2070 is undoubtedly a good card, and should get you about the same performance as a 1080 Ti, so you'll be set for a while with that thing. Nice rig!

[Blerpa]

Nice rig (aside from the case aestethics ;P )! You really went all in! Good going!

[George]

Yeah, the case looks like it was built in the Soviet Union in 1974.

https://90a1c75758623581b3f8-5c119c3de181c9857fcb2784776b17ef.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.c om/514034_849505_02_front_thumbnail.jpg

This Acer machine (https://www.microcenter.com/product/512389/predator-orion-3000-desktop-gaming-computer) looked more exciting and had a feature I hadn't seen before: flip-out levers to hang headphones on at both top corners.

But, like good tovarishch, I buy computing machine at GUM.

[Tom Servo]

The nice thing is that by buying something like that, you can swap out the case if you ever feel like it.

[Rare White Ape]

But I'd like to get into VR/UltraWide and/or 4K stuff, so I'm thinking maybe do it a little at a time.

I’m just commenting to reassure you that this wasn’t missed, and that I agree; it’s definitely the way to do it.

[Freude am Fahren]

:D

[Blerpa]

That Predator case is horrid as well to me LOL (Also that Predator build is sweet... till you see that the DDR4s are only 2666. MEH)

[Freude am Fahren]

Seems like a pretty good spec for the price, George.

In related news, Walmart started selling their own gaming PC's and they've um, not been reviewed well. But they slashed prices after all the bad reviews. https://www.walmart.com/cp/3600045

They start at $999, and go up to $1699. But the cases are shit (can't breathe, USB 2.0 front ports), mobo's are cheap (only USB 3.0 header being used for a type C port on the rear, with hot glue!), quality control bad. They are equipped with i7 8700's, 16 or 32GB (at 2400 GHz!!) and MSi 1070/80/80ti cards.

[drew]

I actually (to the sad realization I need hope) went through my entire Amazon/Newegg order history since 2007.

Big ticket items/systems I bought/built since then:
2007 - E6600 dual-core 2.4G (overclocked it on Day 1 to 3.6 (50% OC) and it ran non-stop for 3 years), with an 8800 GTX (768MB) and 4 (4! GB of RAM (maxed on mobo)). 750W PC Power & Cooling PSU* About $2000 (fs!) Fucking RAM (PC2 8500) was $387 for 2 GB

2009 - Upgraded to a GTX 260 (896MB) $200

2010 - i7-920/12GB (maxed) RAM X58 Mobo, other standard bits. Gave this to my B-I-L in 2014, he's still using it. $1300

2013 - Upgraded to a GTX 680 4GB $570

2014 - i7-4790K, 32GB RAM, Z97 Mobo $1600

2016 - GTX 1080 $690

2018a - i7-8700K, 32GB RAM, Z370 Mobo, re-purposed the Z97 board/setup to a work computer, because the laptops are absolutely shit. $900 (re-used a lot of things)
2018b - GTX 1080TI $730
2018c - H370 Mobo, i5-8500k, 16GB RAM. Built her a desktop for work/home $900 give or take

Other miscellaneous shit (since 2017) 3 LG 32" HD monitors (sold all to co-workers, now using them at the office), 3 28" Samsung UHD (1 at home, 2 at office), 32" Samsung UHD (home)
No idea what that is over all, but probably more than enough to pay entry into a group...

Interesting observations:
Top Tier GPUs all seem to hover around the same price point.

Grotesque observation: in 2007, 4GB of RAM Cost you almost $800. In 2018, 32GB is $350.
*My current machine (8700k) still has the PC Power & Cooling PSU in it, 12 years later. It's the only PC part that's remained in every build.

[Alan P]

Finally got my 34" ultrawide! An Alienware DW 3440x1440.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/286151098165755904/531105144616517652/20190103_225624.jpg

[dodint]

*unf*

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah nah you can’t go posting that pic without also sharing your desktop image.

[Alan P]

3169

Ask and ye shall receive. Possibly the best arse on the internet at the moment.

[Rare White Ape]

Thank you kind sir.

Though I dispute your arsesertion regarding dat ass.

[GreatScawt]

https://www.pcgamer.com/g-sync-compatible-freesync-monitors/

To all those looking at new monitors. Nvidia - on Jan 15 - will be releasing drivers enabling 10-series plus GPUs to work with freesync monitors. As opposed to requiring gsync only. I'd say this is cool, but they should have never had a proprietary module requirement in the first place. Still helpful!

[Rare White Ape]

Definitely.

Here’s hoping they extend it out to HDMI 2.1 displays as well.

[Yw-slayer]

I'm vaguely interested in the 27" and 32" models.

[drew]

I'm still regretting buying the 1080ti, and not the 2080ti. (Not really, but I was seriously thinking about it)

[Blerpa]

So, I just bought something I never did buy before: a sound card. In the past I always relied on integrated sound or soundboards taken for free from old PCs of friends.
I got bored of having to manage Realtek shit and having to connect my headphones to the integrated audio and meanwhile having the 2.1 speakers connected to my monitor with audio pushed through DisplayPort because: 1) I can't be arsed to physically switch cables everytime I want to hop from headphones to speakers (my front case audio is disconnected: graphic cards do pass over the mobo socket for the front audio - shitty mobo, I know) 2) volume by the integrated audio is abysmal and, especially, low.

So I got a Creative Soundblaster Z retail (with two annoying internal red leds that can't be turned off - I may either cut them or cover them with black electrical tape) and await for it to be delivered next week.
People in comments say it is a totally different world compared to integrated audio, let's hope so.

It will eventually be part of my future new PC, but I'm going to wait at least next fall before starting on that (Although with the RX 580, the SSD, 650W PSU and Soundblaster I'll be at half the point of the build already).
Anyone got this audio card? Many suggested me to get an external USB audio card, but I can't stand anymore to have hubs and stuff outside my case...

(There was also a bulk version, without the two leds, the metallic protection and the microphone... but it was 79 euro vs. 82 euro, really no brainer to get the retail version, even with the annoying leds).

3170

[Rare White Ape]

So AMD has unveiled a new 7nm Radeon graphics card to push the high end of the consumer market, and the world let out a collective “Meh.”

Even the Nvidia CEO gave it a blast, apparently.

What’s the deal?

Well, it’s got clocks that push into - but not quite - 2080 territory, no ray tracing and no AI cores, but at a lower cost. Are they aiming for the productivity market as with Threadripper, by boosting raw power over features and going for the user who wants to render large graphics, or edit 4K video files, rather than the gamers, who form the largest part of the graphics sector?

They’re not exactly troubling Nvidia, which definitely has power up its sleeve. It’s a shame, as I’d love to see another GPU arms race between these two companies.

[Blerpa]

Actually, Nvidia seems nervous (not counting how Ray Tracing is so far overrated, underwhelming and available only on a stellar number of 2 games in the market (TWO) and 2080 can't manage to keep up 4K 60 fps with RT on, and are we forgetting about all the new RTX cards having memory issues and burning down?).
That Radeon VII is the gaming counterpart of their productive beast, the Mi60 - 7nm, 16GB of HBM2 memory, 1 TB/s of bandwith... 2080 who? Only for rich newbs blatering about RT and DLSS.

More and more people are already turning to AMD for cheap gaming rigs with Ryzen (but always remember to buy RAM at least 3000MHz or it will suffer a lot), and Radeons are the new cheap alternative (1060s are trampled by 580s and 590s).
I think Nvidia is worrying and trying to conceal it by aggressively attacking AMD presentation.
699 dollars for the Vega 7... surely will go down a 100$ by a month or two, meaning it's way cheaper than a 2080 and a useless 2080Ti.

[Freude am Fahren]

And rumor has it Nvidia is planning an 11xx series. I guess they'd be similar specs to their 20xx counterparts, without RT or DLSS? Maybe similar framerates to 20xx cards with RTX off, back at at 10xx price points?

I don't fault them for RTX. It's a big step in tech, and is going to take time to work in seamlessly and become ubiquitous. They just kinda blew it on the marketing/QC/Price side. They probably should have released the 2060 sooner, but I'm guessing they were worried about the benchmarkers seeing unplayable frame rates with RTX on. They kinda made themselves into a meme, with high prices, some bad units and some bad RTX implementation, which in the gamer market is only amplified.

It's important to note, that even though only BFV uses RTX, it came out and was a huge FPS hit, but after only one patch they made big improvements, so as developers work with it, I think we'll see RTX become usable and more popular. I can't wait to see it in driving and flying games/sims like ACC, PC3, maybe XPlane, etc.

[Blerpa]

Good points, especially on the 2060 (shall we forget it was supposed to be a normal gtx card without ray tracing and suddenly out of the blue it became an RTX card?).
Nvidia could be afraid that people will eventually stop giving a damn about rt (I already don't, sounds like a gimmick to me) and shilling less money for a cheaper and equivalent AMD counterpart without rt (and with better quality control).

[Rare White Ape]

I’m throwing my hat into the ring and saying that RT is definitely the future. This gen is the awkward first step that we have to have, and we will see big improvements over the next 12-18 months.

The only complaining I’ve seen stems from the notion that the cards need to run games at full settings and achieve 4K/60 output at minimum, which is a fair comment. I think everyone was expecting a GTX1180 that would nail this. But we’re at a time when 4K screens are not totally ubiquitous, yet 8K is on the horizon and graphics cards are having a hard time keeping up with pixel counts while keeping costs at a reasonable level.

It’s almost like tyre manufacturers that are struggling to keep up with power outputs from the latest supercars.

I’d say that there is a 50/50 chance that both Sony and Microsoft will announce ray tracing for their next gen consoles, so then the tech will be ubiquitous and developers can unify their lighting systems. Then we will see some new techniques to make ray tracing faster and more efficient.

It should be noted that Polyphony Digital has been using real time ray tracing in experimental builds of Gran Turismo, and used it to bake-in the lighting effects on GT Sport. There’s already a push towards it outside the PC space.

[Blerpa]

RT is nowhere to be seen in videogames. Any platform.
And the whole videogame market is dominated by AMD, no matter if Nvidia has faster cards. Why? Consoles, which are all powered by AMD cards.
Nvidia is afraid developers won't give a damn about RT because consoles and console games won't follow... suddenly getting cold feet, Mr. Huang?
Actual consoles can't run real 4K at solid 30 fps with graphics close to top of the line PCs and you think RT will be in next gen consoles? Ludicrous to me.
And lest we forget Nvidia is in financial problems: it lost 50% of its stocks' value since the 1st of October, and there's the class action on the horizon.
Ray Tracing, pfff... we haven't even gone far with Direct X 12 and Vulkan yet (all fault of Nvidia which is boicotting them, as it did with the Direct X 10 in the past).

[Blerpa]

Oh, almost forgot, AMD not only dominates the gaming world, but ironically even the mobile one: the Qualcomm Adreno, which is everywhere in smartphones and tablets, was an ATI (then AMD when ATI was bought in) chip developed by Imageon, now property of Qualcomm.
Adreno is the anagram of Radeon.
Far fetched but too fun to not tell.

[Blerpa]

Guys, a quick question: is there any real value to install a second SSD (NOT for the OS) in a PC just for the games? Or just go with a mechanical one?
I'll update you next week with some news.

[dodint]

That's the setup I am running. SSD for OS, SSD for games, and a HDD for storage.

[drew]

I only have 1 500GB SSD, and not enough shit intalled to warrant a second one.

So, I'm contributing nothing to the conversation.

[dodint]

TSA busted my laptop and freed up a SSD for re-purposing so I tossed it in my gaming tower, that's how I ended up there.

[CudaMan]

How did they do that?

[dodint]

Not sure. I flew to Texas and packed my laptop in my checked bag with the normal care I do when I travel several other times a year. When I got to Houston the laptop had a 'TSA inspected this device' placard on the keyboard and it was completely dead. I can't prove it was them, and it could have been just a coincidence. But why they needed to unpack my laptop which was neatly wrapped in a sleeping bag in the first place is beyond me.

[CudaMan]

Ooh, that sucks. I always carry on my laptop in my backpack (with padded laptop pocket). Hadn't thought about checking it but yeah, when they inspect your checked baggage they don't always put things back where they were.

[Rare White Ape]

Guys, a quick question: is there any real value to install a second SSD (NOT for the OS) in a PC just for the games? Or just go with a mechanical one?
I'll update you next week with some news.

Ideal middle ground could be to move the games that you’re currently playing onto the boot SSD and swap them out to the mechanical drive as your game playing tastes change.

[Alan P]

Some games, especially texture heavy ones or those with large open play areas really benefit from being on an SSD. Battlefield 4's load time was reduced to less than have that of a Mechanical hard drive when installed on an SSD and caused so many complaints from mechanical hard drive users who joined maps with flags already capped or armour already halfway across the map that they introduced a game start timer so everyone would be loaded onto the map before the game would start.

[Blerpa]

I've a new Crucial MX500 250gb SSD for the OS, I could use the 500gb mechanical HDD in my actual desktop in a new one for both games and my own personal data... but I was considering options:
1) 250gb SSD for the OS and a new 1tb mechanical hdd for games AND personal data
2) 250gb SSD for the OS, a new 480gb SSD for games and the old 500gb mechanical hdd only for personal data

I just don't know if the change from hdd to ssd would help games to load faster, install quicker and so on. Is it worthy?