Somebody stop me... (Gaming PC Build Thread)

[GreatScawt]

All it takes is a friend rounding up components for a gaming PC... it's been downhill from there ever since; I've officially been sucked into the vortex of PC gaming hardware.

Currently, this is my high-end (yet somewhat affordable) dream build. Some components may or may not change, but ultimately I'm pretty set on this list.

PCPartPicker part list (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BqbCVn) / Price breakdown by merchant (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BqbCVn/by_merchant/)

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i74790k) ($338.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-cpu-cooler-h100i) ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus SABERTOOTH Z97 MARK S ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-sabertoothz97marks) ($269.00 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cmz16gx3m2a1600c10) ($116.23 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-internal-hard-drive-mz75e250bam) ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd1003fzex) ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 4GB FTW ACX 2.0 Video Card (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-video-card-04gp42986kr) ($575.91 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-case-750d) ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-power-supply-220g20750xr) ($115.79 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/RSBS DVD/CD Writer (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-optical-drive-sh224dbrsbs) ($17.79 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Corsair Air Series SP120 High Performance Edition (2-Pack) 62.7 CFM 120mm Fans (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-case-fan-co9050008ww) ($27.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1836.66
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-16 22:17 EDT-0400

Thoughts? - I'll still need to pick up an OS at some point. I don't know when I'll have the balls to pull the trigger. My justifications are that it's a fun project and I have computer needs (been making my current laptop last 4.5 years so far). :D

This build is slightly future-proofed by being compatible with the next line of 5th gen core processors and having room for another 980 eventually. So it has that going for it.

Also, feel free to use this thread as further building discussion, not just for me. Now that I'm entrenched in gaming hardware, it's really interesting to see what's out there and what's coming down the line.

[Alan P]

Initial thoughts are:

i7 is, perhaps, overkill. It depends how 'future proof' you want it to be. Remember there's always a new CPU standard coming. You could go X99 now for example, although much more expensive. I will agree though that games are now starting to take advantage of an I7 and the multiple cores.

You could conceivably save some money on the Motherboard. Sure it's a great board but look carefully at the features and think what you'll use.

Ditch the Black Mechanical hard disk. Anything worth running quickly is worth putting on your SSD. Everything else will happily sit on a 'normal' hard disk. By all means look at a bigger SSD. I have a 250GB one and by the time I had Battlefield 4 and Titanfall as well as Windows I didn't have enough space on it for GTA5.

If you're going to SLI then I'd be looking at an 850w PSU, just in case. Either go bigger on the watts or smaller. You're kind of in no mans land with 750W.

Optical drive? How fast is your internet? Will you really be purchasing anything on DVD in the future? Even GTA5 on PC needed a 5GB patch on release and I haven't bought a Disc copy of a game since 2013.

You've forgotten (or neglected to mention you already have) Keyboard, Mouse and Monitor?

[GreatScawt]

Peripherals: Ah, right, I have a G500S and a monitor that will suffice for now.
I'll likely pick up a mechanical keyboard... I saw a review for the Razr Chroma and I'm in looove, but I'm not sure I want to spend that much.

CPU/Mobo: I'm pretty set on the 4790k. Also, there are Z97 mobos out there that are half the price, but looking at the reviews, it seems like such a crap-shoot. I feel like all these mobo manufacturers have really iffy QC. I'll need to really dig in more and compare features. But that Mark S is sturdy, has lots of inputs, room for fans, good air flow, and goddamn it looks pretty. Kind of sparks my idea for a black/white theme... that being the only white component :lol:

HDD: So you'd recommend bumping to the 500 gig EVO and a WD Blue or equivalent?
Not going to lie, I saw the Seagate issues YW posted in that other thread and got scared so I jumped on a solid product line from a different manufacturer I knew well.
Can I ask how big is your Windows install? Also, how feasible is it to swap games between harddrives? Like if you stopped playing BF3, could you just switch it to the standard drive?

PSU: I did have an 850 W PSU spec'd, but a buddy told me that might be unnecessary. I'll have to do some more research, but yeah, an 850 seems like the logical choice to me as well.

Optical Drive: This was another thing I was unsure with. Honestly, installing Windows was my key contributing factor for selecting this. Now that I said that out loud, here's a dumb question: What are my other options for installing the OS without a disk?

[thesameguy]

I would echo Alan's sentiment on the motherboard - three bills for a board is nutso unless you're just oozing money. My approach would probably be to cut that board in half, dump the WD 1tb, dump the 250gb EVO, and put all that into a $300 980gb M500. I agree on the 750w PSU - but there really isn't much on the table here - dropping to a lower wattage is only going to save you $20-$40. Although, like Alan said, might as well save the money and go with a ~500w or spend an extra $20-$40 and get to an 850w. Even though you'll probably never use it, I would keep the optical drive. $20 to just not have to worry about the oddball thing coming on disk is worth it. Windows is only available on optical media, so while you can install it from a flash drive (recommend - it's fast!) you need a computer with an optical drive to get it on the flash drive in the first place. :)

If you have one nearby, you can get that CPU at Microcenter for $280.

[Yw-slayer]

It's very simple. Wait for Skylake to come out later this year. Broadwell is good but it's already old tech. Skylake will at least give you another bump in performance, including in terms of disk IO, and possibly better USB 3.1 support too.

That said, if you must buy now, definitely ditch the mechanical HDD unless you need it for backing up stuff (I like to keep a Google Drive backup of important drivers etc. which is synced) and/or storing large amounts of photo/video. My desktop at home has 3 WD Blacks but that's mainly because of the cloud syncing, photography/MP3s/FLAC/videos/photog scratch disks (notpr0nz).

Also, if I were building now I'd get a 1TB SSD just like TSG recommended. 850 EVO looks good, but I'd probably get a Crucial BX100 as that's more than fast enough, and you can always get another 1TB whatever-brand later for even cheaper if you really need it. Plus I have read some issues of Samsung SSDs shitting the bed whereas the Crucials are (anecdotally and from my experience) more solid.

If you are going to have a pure Steam/Origin/game drive, you should get a minimum of 512GB. For example, my 480GB SSD (relatively old Crucial M500 with only 446GB available) on my work computer only has around 64GB left on it. That's admittedly with cloud synced media, but there are no Origin games on it and no heavy-hitter Steam games on it (I think the heaviest are probably Homeworld Remastered/Crusader Kings II and the whole Steam directory already takes up 63GB). All the work gear and files (including full Outlook downloads of 2 email accounts) take up maybe 100GB max. Windows install is 23.5GB. Cloud storage syncing is around 120GB. If it's going to be your only drive, and you want more than 4 triple-A titles on your disk at any one time, then 1TB is ideal.

I would definitely keep an optical drive, because why not. BD-ROM too for the extra $$.

If you do get a hard drive, I'd get a 2TB or even a 4TB WD Black. The price difference isn't substantial over a 1TB, and why not get more space if you can. Just avoid the 3TB HDDs. ;)

I echo what the others have said about motherboards. Unless you really need the extra features, save some money on that and put it towards a bigger HDD and/or SSD (as set out above).

[thesameguy]

On the subject of big mechanical storage, go for broke.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/441064/5TB_7,200_RPM_SATA_III_60Gb-s_35_Desktop_Internal_Hard_Drive_PH3500U-1I72

[Yw-slayer]

And again, really, a US$260 motherboard? Z97-E is US$89.99 after MIR: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-132-287&nm_mc=afc-edc-tomshardware&cm_mmc=afc-edc-tomshardware-_-tomsweeklydeals-_-na-_-13-132-287&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-edc-tomshardware

[GreatScawt]

I had myself convinced the price = lasting quality to choose that mobo. But its good to keep that in check. I've never even seen that Z97-E board. Good deal. I may make an upper mid-tier PC using Devil's Canyon i5 and a 970. I can splurge on case, PSU, and HDD and probably the cooler for a transplant build eventually. It will still be good for everything else I need to do and run games at 1080p.

tsg, there is a Microcenter in Philly, which is roughly 1.5 hours away. I may have to make an excuse to get down there. I didn't realize one was so close.

[Yw-slayer]

Or you could save the 1.5 hours drive and get one for USD289.99 off the Egg: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-newegg-deals,4106.html (which is where I got that Z97 board from).

But seriously, just wait for Skylake.

[Kchrpm]

I will know at 1:30 PM, when the Battlefront trailer comes out, how much I want to invest. Maybe at that point this thread will become very important to me.

[Kchrpm]

tsg, there is a Microcenter in Philly, which is roughly 1.5 hours away. I may have to make an excuse to get down there. I didn't realize one was so close.
There's a MicroCenter 5 minutes from where I live. You should visit.

[GreatScawt]

I will know at 1:30 PM, when the Battlefront trailer comes out, how much I want to invest. Maybe at that point this thread will become very important to me.

No console consideration?

[Kchrpm]

Well yeah, but if it's OMGTHISISTHEMOSTAMAZINGTHINGEVER then I'll go whole hog on it. (the trailer released, it wasn't)

[GreatScawt]

Or you could save the 1.5 hours drive and get one for USD289.99 off the Egg: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-newegg-deals,4106.html (which is where I got that Z97 board from).

But seriously, just wait for Skylake.

I like the idea of a moderate over lock on an i5. Check this out. That discount is pretty ridic for two parts.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.2297105

So what's the deal with Skylake? Any word on release and price? Specs?

[thesameguy]

I will know at 1:30 PM, when the Battlefront trailer comes out, how much I want to invest. Maybe at that point this thread will become very important to me.

:lol:

That's how it goes...

[thesameguy]

I had myself convinced the price = lasting quality to choose that mobo. But its good to keep that in check. I've never even seen that Z97-E board. Good deal. I may make an upper mid-tier PC using Devil's Canyon i5 and a 970. I can splurge on case, PSU, and HDD and probably the cooler for a transplant build eventually. It will still be good for everything else I need to do and run games at 1080p.

tsg, there is a Microcenter in Philly, which is roughly 1.5 hours away. I may have to make an excuse to get down there. I didn't realize one was so close.

IIRC Microcenter typically offers a big discount on a board if you purchase a CPU, so there could be more money on the table here for you. Or, if you have some time to kill waltz into a Staples and ask them to price match Microcenter. It works as often as not - I got my i5 that way, and Microcenter is over 400 miles from here. :)

[Yw-slayer]

I like the idea of a moderate over lock on an i5. Check this out. That discount is pretty ridic for two parts.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.2297105

So what's the deal with Skylake? Any word on release and price? Specs?

Release date later this year, most likely Q3. Price should be similar. Specs should be better.

Really man, the 4xxx CPU core (though not the 4690) came out in Q3 2013. Why not wait 5 more months and get stuff which is 2 generations ahead?

[Yw-slayer]

I should point out that I've also had WD Blacks fail on me. So like TSG has said, expect all mechanical drives to fail.

[GreatScawt]

I couldn't help myself.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/L8mR8d

Thanks to all the critiques and recommendations plus a string of fantastic deals a couple weekends ago, I pulled the trigger. Instead of the 970 I went 980 FTW... the friggin thing was $490 shipped. Screaming deal. I still have $80 in rebates that I need to submit now (now that the thing is built and everything works).

No mechanical secondary, but the 500 gig SSD will do just fine for my needs now. I actually picked up a 2 TB external for backing up my laptop. I'd like to reformat that and bring it back to it's former glory as a fast internet-surfer.

Such a fun project... between researching compatibility and pricing and then the process of building, wiring, cable management, and setting it up properly, it was all very satisfying. It looks nice, to boot! :up:

I haven't done any overclocking, but it's running everything really well. Depending on settings (rain + night time lighting has a big affect), Project CARS was seeing 60-70+ FPS during the day, dry with a field of 35 AI cars.

[Yw-slayer]

Nice one mate, I'm well-jel (jeal?). My OCed 2600K is still chugging away but I think I fried something recently as the MB now can't detect my USB keyboard on-boot, although it's fine when you're in Windows. That might slightly restrict my re-purposing it in the future, although I'm not actually sure what to do with it once it's been replaced with a Skylake machine.

[Rare White Ape]

Perfect thing for playing Duke Nukem 3D.

[GreatScawt]

Hah, YW, you could also try and grab another mobo for the cheapz and turn it into some sort of media server or a dedicated emulator box (... Dolphin? - know that'd be 4W3S0M3)

[thesameguy]

Nice one mate, I'm well-jel (jeal?). My OCed 2600K is still chugging away but I think I fried something recently as the MB now can't detect my USB keyboard on-boot, although it's fine when you're in Windows. That might slightly restrict my re-purposing it in the future, although I'm not actually sure what to do with it once it's been replaced with a Skylake machine.

That would be a BIOS issue, probably just a setting. I think it's generally called LEGACY USB SUPPORT but I may be confused. Been a long time since I've had that issue. :)

[Alan P]

Probably a BIOS issue as said. There will be a setting within the BIOS for USB Legacy or something similar as TSG says.

TSG, will it be just racing games you'll be playing?

[Yw-slayer]

I'm not sure it is. The problem could be with the keyboard itself as one day it suddenly refused to respond. My IT guy had to upgrade the firmware before it did. After that it worked fine in Windows but throws up a no keyboard error at POST, even though I think USB legacy support is on.

Good idea about converting it into something like a pure SNES/N64 emulator. I thought I had everything I needed (MyCloud in the office, HTPC in the bedroom, HTPC/server in the living room) but I could do that. It's a bit more likely that I'll move it to my office, but in a smaller case (keeping the current RV02-E at home by using it for the new build), and use it as a backup desktop/FLAC media server though, as the MyCloud can be slightly unstable.

ANYWAY - grats on your new build, Scawtbro, now it's time for me to resume the waiting game...

[GreatScawt]

That would be pretty boss :up:

Thanks! I was not strong enough to wait :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

Well, it depends on what your old rig was. Laptop, right? In which case I understand. Me, I've got at least one computer in every room I spend major time in (save for the office), all of which are powerful enough to play triple-A titles at acceptable settings at 1920x1080 and which can run Lightroom to an acceptable standard. Really, the least powerful one is an i5-3470 with a 560Ti in it, and that's the HTPC/server. The OCed 2600K is also not that much slower than the 2 subsequent generations of processors. It would be different if I had only a single Core2-based computer or laptop.

Anyway, enjoy that new PC smell! Win10 looks like it'll be good too.

[Rare White Ape]

If you were to build a dedicated emulator PC, you might as well get it to run old games from GOG too. Mine runs X-Wing Alliance at resolutions that would've made the average PC blow a poo-poo valve back in 1998.

As well as flawless N64 greats, and near flawless GCN games, but you really want quad core for that shizz.

[Yw-slayer]

It's quad core alright. But no point setting up another gaming machine when I won't have time to play it.

[GreatScawt]

Anyway, enjoy that new PC smell! Win10 looks like it'll be good too.

I can't wait for Win10. Especially with better Xbox integration, crossbuy, etc. I'd like to get my laptop up and running with it as well, with a fresh install.
I'm also hoping they announce a new flagship Lumia soon too, that runs Phone 10. 940 and 940XL are the rumors. Pretty stoked.

[Kchrpm]

Brand whore nerd.

*puts on his Sony headphones to listen podcasts from his Sony phone, can't find his Sony micro to USB memory stick that he uses to copy files to his Sony laptop or plug into his Sony Blu Ray player which is plugged into his Sony receiver that powers his Sony speakers*

*Google Now on Google Chrome reminds him of a task he has to do based on a Google Calendar event created from a GMail message, accesses Google Drive on his Android phone to get the address and then enters it into Google Maps, screencaps the directions and uploads them to Google+ so he can share it in Google Hangouts*

[GreatScawt]

:lol:
The loyalty is real. Sometimes brand whoring just feels right.

Also also, DirectX 12.... THAT should be the queen's tits.

[thesameguy]

YES. Been waiting forever to replace my 920. FOREVER.

[Yw-slayer]

MS is on the up, no ifs or buts about it.

[thesameguy]

Having used most of the ecosystems I am most comfortable with Microsoft's - the WP -> Xbox -> Win8 -> Office365 is the smoothest experience to be had IMHO. Google's works as well, but getting things in & out is a pain, everything you do is tracked and monetized, and whereas I "need" my Xbox and Outlook, Google has nothing to offer than I need. I think MS's big breakdown is on the consumer end, because Hotmail was awful and Outlook.com is very late to the party. If I didn't have my own domain and/or my own mail server, I might find MS's products to be less good - but as I work, it's by far and away the best fit. Apple's situation is a damned disaster area - although iTunes is still a beast, I don't want anything to do with it. I can definitely envision a scenario where it'd be worth the sacrifice, eg there are a lot of very good legal-related apps that just don't exist anywhere else, so getting involved in iPad/iPhone ecosystem makes sense for people I work with, even at the cost of poor interaction with other systems that are needed... like you can only manage iPhones with a Mac, and the only useful way to get data into those aforementioned apps is via Dropbox. If I could get those iOS apps in a WP version, everyone here would be using WP *tomorrow*. Each night I say a little prayer that Windows 10 will be lean enough and phone hardware will improve enough that we can run native Windows apps on phones. Surface meets about 75% of the challenge, though - I could happily live with cell phones being limited to simple phone & email devices. Maybe I will add a prayer that the 940 is a damned killer and sells itself.

If you asked me circa Y2K about my enthusiasm level with Microsoft it would have been pretty poor, but I think the Win7+ days have been overall quite good.

[GreatScawt]

Didn't know you were a WP guy, tsg. Yeah, we'll see how WP10 is handled. I recall reading that they want WP10 to basically be Win10, which is a great step towards native Windows apps on phones. But I still feel that's a ways off.

I've been rocking my 1020 but I'm due for an upgrade now. If the 940 is true, I will jump on that in a heartbeat (barring reviews, but even then, I trust it'll do well). There's a parallel rumor of a 1540 or a 940XL "phablet".

Ugh, want.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, I'm actually on my second Windows phone. I went from Blackberry to a Dell Streak to Windows Phone. It's very depressing now and again, having to ask my girlfriend for her phone to program WeMo devices would be a good example of that. But using the phone is such a pleasure I quickly forget about the app stuff it can't do. My phone is so old at this point I think I'm coming up on a second contract renewal interval, but there just hasn't been a WP replacement to justify actually buying. The 1020 almost got my money, but I kept analyzing it and by the time I decided to do it even the 1020 was long in the tooth and I figured I'd wait some more. That was nearly two years ago. :lol: Now I'll probably end up waiting until 2016 to be sure the next generation product is fully released and established. :)

[Yw-slayer]

My wife, although not exactly a major techie, is of a similar opinion. She's still soldiering on with her HTC 8X and sees no reason to replace it. She's not an app/social media maven and is unconcerned about the stuff that most tech bloggers blow up into BIGGEST ISSUE EVER. The interface is stunning, smooth, and the phone works well.

[thesameguy]

There's no arguing the fact that people love apps. Personally, I don't get it. I don't want stupid apps, because I don't want to have to remember what works where. I want to use the web page, like I do on my desktop, my laptop, and my Venue tablet. The only apps I have on my phone are for things that simply can't be done via the web - Amazon's UPC scanner, Wells Fargo's check deposit app, and... I think there is some reason I have the Fandango app. Just like in 2006, what I want is the phone that has the best web browser because that's how I like to work. And I don't do any social media ever - in fact one thing that drove me away from the Streak initially was Google always wanting to know what I was up to so it could share it with the world. You know what Windows Phone never does? Give a shit about what I'm doing.

And the Exchange/ActiveSync integration is, not surprisingly, the best. It's worth its weight in gold to me.

[George]

Perfect thing for playing Duke Nukem 3D.

Oh, man, now THAT was a fun game, especially when the user-created maps started showing up to download. :up:


I came here to kick ass and check gum, and I'm all out of gum!

You guys remember what was playing on all the TVs in the game, right? :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

My main dude said he hasn't got 6700K stock yet. Doesn't he want to SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY??!!!

[Yw-slayer]

Looking at the following.

6700K
Gigabyte Z170 Gaming-5
32GB DDR4-2600
Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 or Arc XL or another Raven RV02E
Noctua NH-12US or Corsair H100
1TB Evo 850 (tide me over until I get a 512GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
Reuse WD 1TB, 2TB, 4TB HDDs, maybe also the Crucial M5.480GB
Reuse old GTX 970
Reuse old BD drive

Still hitting usd1900 easily though once I add Win10 into the mix and buy a cheap-ass graphics card to put in the 2600K (which will still have at least one 256gb SSD in it).

And then what do I do with the 2600K in my Raven case? I guess I could use it as a backup work computer.

[Yw-slayer]

Oops, I just found out that my daughter's school fees are doubling since now she's doing morning and afternoon sessions.

Perhaps I can wait until Kaby Lake, or even Cannonlake.

[thesameguy]

Wow, no volume discount from school, eh?

[Yw-slayer]

And I can't pay by credit card to get cashback.

[thesameguy]

The trick, I think you'll find, is getting cashback without paying by credit card. Master that, and the world is your oyster.

[Yw-slayer]

Yeah, that would be THE BEST.

[Yw-slayer]

Fuck it, you only process photos in LR once and a faster processor will save me time that I can spend with my kids. Plus birthday present etc. 6700k here we come.

[GreatScawt]

Daaaamn, that'll be sweet! :up:

You're going to need another 970, too. It's all about that... balance ;)

[Yw-slayer]

Nah. I'm more of a Tree Pose type of person. ;)

Final config:

6700K
Gigabyte Z170 Gaming-5
32GB DDR4-2400 (because 2666 would mean waiting a week for stock, and fuck that)
Fractal Design Arc Midi R2
Noctua NH-12US
1TB Evo 850

Added a BD drive since I can't be fucked to look for the old 5.25" bay covers from my older computers and as I might want the BD drive working in my 2600K, which once fully reformatted is going to sit in my office (with a 750Ti in place of my 970) and be my work computer while my poor W520 goes in for repair.

[Yw-slayer]

Some odd points:

1. Sometimes the bd drive doesn't show up in Windows or just disappears in the middle of copying. Bad drive or do I just reseat the cables?

2. The Killer NIC drivers suck balls in Win10.

3. LR Catalog and cache on an SSD is much better than on an HDD.

[thesameguy]

1. I'd guess bad drive, but that's weird. Maybe an incorrect storage driver?
2. It's not so good in 7. I get occasional weird network drops, usually right after boot. WHAT'S WRONG WITH GOOD OLD INTEL?
3. SSD > HDD? I have 3tb of SSD on my main rig and 4tb of HDD. So choice. :up:

[Yw-slayer]

1. Seems OK now through BD rips. Could be storage driver. Anyway, no big fuss, it's not like BD drives are expensive anyway or like I use them that much.

2. Nothing, which is why I've actually now disabled the Killer NIC and am running with Intel.

3. For surez.

[21Kid]

I don't know what all is included, or if it's a good deal, but... (http://smile.amazon.com/b/ref=lp_12591764011_gbrc_tit_r-1_5082_8de6de5b?rh=i%3Aelectronics%2Cn%3A125917640 11&ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&node=12591764011)


Bonus Deal of the Day
Up to 45% Off Select PC Gaming Gear

[Yw-slayer]

I am using massively overpowered computers to play Sunrider: Mask of Arcadia. For shame.

[thesameguy]

My dad exploded his computer in the past few days. No idea what happened, but suddenly a mass of c:\windows\... files were corrupted. System wouldn't boot, fixed that, drivers wouldn't load, fixed that, software wouldn't start, fixed that. Eventually got it back to functional ran a differential backup of user files then restored a week old backup and replaced the user files. All seems well now, but there is no explanation for what happened so it's a bit of walking on eggshells. I don't know whether the hardware got flaky or if he did something. I think it's time for me to replace it just to be sure.

Typically he gets my hand-me-downs, so last year when I upgraded to Haswell he got my Sandy Bridge stuff. I have no interest in opening my computer right now, so that's not available. I am stuck between giving him a Dell XPS 8500 (Ivy Bridge i7) I have mostly doing nothing, or selling that and upgrading his rig. Although he'd never admit it, I know he likes the mesh Antec 900 and blue fans. It's his computer rather than something store bought, fair enough. It's nice for me because I can upgrade it piece-meal over time, rather than having an entire machine that needs to be swapped out. Performance-wise, I can't replicate the 8500 for what it's worth... maybe sell it for $300-$400, and I couldn't buy a similar performance Haswell or Broadwell CPU & board for that. Kinda stuck there, no good options.

Maybe switch him out to the 8500 for now, then do a whole new machine next Fall? Maybe step down to an i5? I'm running a 4670k now and have zero need for anything quicker. Hmmm.

[Yw-slayer]

i5 I think. He's your dad, life's too short to have regrets over a case.

[thesameguy]

I think that makes sense too. Maybe I will sell that 8500 and do a fast previous-gen i5 and a good motherboard. Then it's Socket 1150 for everyone!

[Alan P]

What about simply fitting an SSD and reinstalling Windows onto it? Would make the machine feel like new.

[thesameguy]

It already has an M550 512gb SSD I put in earlier this year. It's a pretty high end system - i7-2600, 16gb, 512gb SSD, 2tb HDD, 2gb 6870, BD-RW and a nice 750w PSU. It is not slow by any stretch - it does everything he wants and is capable of way more. It's a stability issue - because I have to fix it when it has problems. It's better for my sanity to replace it rather than spend another 12 hours tinkering with it and doing phone support should it break again. I'm just torn on wholesale replacement (except that SSD - it's not going anywhere!) or piecemeal replacement. In the latter scenario I have to figure out how much to replace. At least board & CPU, probably RAM as well. Everything else is negotiable I guess.

The last time I had this problem - some of you may recall from 3-4 years ago - it was an ASUS motherboard. It just so happens his board is an ASUS board, the last one I bought before I initiated global ASUS boycott following a string of failures. So, I am suspecting the motherboard is the issue. It would explain the random and widespread damage.

[Yw-slayer]

Damn. Yeah, that's a pretty good build. Even my work PC only has 8gb ram.

I'd just get an i5 skylake and a gigabyte z170 board. But arts you know, the only way to know for sure is to replace everything save for the SSD.

My ASUS P8P67 has an odd issue whereby it no longer detects some keyboards on boot - although they are fine in Windows - but I'm willing to put that down to an overly ambitious OC attempt from about a year ago as the problem only surfaced after that. Plus I always have at least 1 spare keyboard on hand anyway.

All the other ASUS MBs I have are fine so far, but I'm not too demanding, and for Skylake I switched to Gigabyte due to their current Alpine Ridge exclusivity.

[thesameguy]

Well, I cheaped out... on both time and money.

Bought a Dell XPS 8700:

Core i7 4690
16gb RAM
Nvidia GTX 745 4gb (he doesn't game)
1tb HDD
* whatever else comes in an XPS 8700

It was $560, can't beat that. I have a PC Power & Cooling PSU and a 512gb Samsung 850 SSD going spare that I will pop in to finish it out. The i7 4790 should be a decent bump from the i7 2600. Being all-new means not worrying about what may have caused the issue and coming mostly prebuilt means I don't have to do it myself. It should dramatically ease the upgrade, too, since it's a complete second machine he can move to, rather than an upgrade that has to be "recovered from." And it frees an entire, functional system (it has had no further issues!) to do whatever with. Hopefully the gamble pays off. ;)

Edit: And, good timing on this sale, too - his birthday is the 20th of October, so it should show up and I'll have time to ready it for the actual day. :up:

Next mission is to replace the girl's laptop. She has a c2010 XPS 13 that doesn't seem to get along great with Win10... it occasionally bluescreens after hibernating. I think its power management modes just aren't up to what 10 expects. It's nearly six years old and had a good life, it's fair to move on. I'm just not sure whether to get her another laptop (maybe another XPS 13) or one of the convertibles. I don't use mine 2-in-1 as a tablet all that often, but when I do I'm really happy the feature is available. She is more of a "media consumer" than I am by an order of magnitude, so a 2-in-1 might be even better for her.

Just so I don't forget... Inspiron 13 - 7352 seems like a good option.

[Yw-slayer]

Wait for the SP4 with rumoured 14" screen?

[thesameguy]

If I am dropping that kind of cash on a computing devices, I am keeping it for myself! :)

[Yw-slayer]

Then get an SP3 on a fire sale. :D

[thesameguy]

That is definitely on the table!

The advantage for me in buying from Dell is that I racked up a LOT of their "Advantage Rewards" this summer... over $1k. The OOP on that 8700 was $0. I'd like to be able to use the rest on this laptop, but if I don't it's not a big deal... I will use it for a second xbone to go upstairs. :)

[Yw-slayer]

But would you really need another XBone? Couldn't you just stream games from it over the in-house network unless you are doing SRS BSNESS Street Fighter V or something.

[LHutton]

All it takes is a friend rounding up components for a gaming PC... it's been downhill from there ever since; I've officially been sucked into the vortex of PC gaming hardware.

Currently, this is my high-end (yet somewhat affordable) dream build. Some components may or may not change, but ultimately I'm pretty set on this list.

PCPartPicker part list (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BqbCVn) / Price breakdown by merchant (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BqbCVn/by_merchant/)

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i74790k) ($338.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-cpu-cooler-h100i) ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus SABERTOOTH Z97 MARK S ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-sabertoothz97marks) ($269.00 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cmz16gx3m2a1600c10) ($116.23 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-internal-hard-drive-mz75e250bam) ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd1003fzex) ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 4GB FTW ACX 2.0 Video Card (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-video-card-04gp42986kr) ($575.91 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-case-750d) ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-power-supply-220g20750xr) ($115.79 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/RSBS DVD/CD Writer (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-optical-drive-sh224dbrsbs) ($17.79 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Corsair Air Series SP120 High Performance Edition (2-Pack) 62.7 CFM 120mm Fans (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-case-fan-co9050008ww) ($27.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1836.66
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-16 22:17 EDT-0400

Thoughts? - I'll still need to pick up an OS at some point. I don't know when I'll have the balls to pull the trigger. My justifications are that it's a fun project and I have computer needs (been making my current laptop last 4.5 years so far). :D

This build is slightly future-proofed by being compatible with the next line of 5th gen core processors and having room for another 980 eventually. So it has that going for it.

Also, feel free to use this thread as further building discussion, not just for me. Now that I'm entrenched in gaming hardware, it's really interesting to see what's out there and what's coming down the line.
I would go for an XFX R9 390X and save $160 and have a card that's as fast with twice the frame buffer size - 8GB vs 4GB - which really helps increase minimum FPS:

$419 (-$156) If you wanted to go Nvidia, the GTX 980Ti Black is only $75 more than a 980.
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/xfx_r9_390x_double_dissipation_review,1.html
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/nvidia_gtx_980_ti_review,1.html

With the money saved you could buy 16GB Ripjaws V Series DDR4 2666MHz or 2800MHz memory:

$150ish (+$34)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/G-SKILL-Ripjaws-Series-F4-2666C15D-16GVR-Memory/dp/B013J7LQYO

OR Trident Z, especially made for 6th gen CPU
http://www.taspro.com.au/GSkill-DDR43000-16GB-Dual-Channel-Trident-Z-F43000C15D16GTZB

If you go for an ASUS Z170 Pro Gaming motherboard:

$163 (-$175)
http://pricespy.co.uk/product.php?p=3266699
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Z170-PRO-Gaming-Motherboards/dp/B0126R3QPA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443625479&sr=8-1&keywords=z170+pro+gaming

Then you could equip an i7-6700K and you would actually save some money too.

$350 (+$11)
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/intel_skylake_core_i5_6600k_core_i7_6700k,1.html

$1660

Splash out on sound card with money saved?

[thesameguy]

But would you really need another XBone? Couldn't you just stream games from it over the in-house network unless you are doing SRS BSNESS Street Fighter V or something.

I could, but that's more than anyone else wants to learn how or equip to do. It's not a huge cost, and it means everything downstairs is also upstairs, and that equals simple.

At the same time, I am gonna run out of xbone space. I could - and otherwise would - just plug in an SSD externally, but if I can roll up a 1tb xbone into a Home Technology Consistency Initiative, I'm down. :lol:

Wish you hadn't brought up the Surface bro... I really want one. :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

I think with Win10, in-home streaming from a Bone should be a doddle.

OTOH, I fully encourage you to buy a Surface Pro 4 or whatever they put out on the 9th.

[thesameguy]

The issue really isn't streaming - I mean, if you have Win10 device you can pretty much stream anything anyway. The issue is getting that content onto the 49" TV, which is somewhat harder. Or, at least less stable.

[21Kid]

why is that difficult?

stream to laptop then hdmi to tv


Even though my TV has built in apps for Netflix & Hulu, the layout stinks. So, I prefer to use my laptop to stream shows to the TV thru HDMI. Yay for wireless mouse & keyboard. :D

[Yw-slayer]

Yes. Or if teh TV doesn't have enough inputs then just BUY ANOTHER TV. Preferably an 85" curved model.

[thesameguy]

I am not going to string a 25' HDMI cable across my bedroom or the office, nor am I going to sit right in front of the TV when I have a comfortable couch or bed in the room.

[21Kid]

I just take my put my laptop next to the TV and use a wireless mouse. :shrug:

YW :? Curved? :mad:

[thesameguy]

Why have a laptop that has to sit next to the TV? What if you want to check your email or surf facebook or do work while watching TV?

HOW DO YOU PEOPLE FUNCTION!?

[21Kid]

Who works on downtime?!? Animal!!!

I use my phone for email & Facebook, while I watch Netflix from my laptop, hooked up to my TV. :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN88JS9500-Curved-88-Inch-Ultra/dp/B00UGGV4DA

[Alan P]

Awesome Value!

You Save: $3,002.00 (13%)

[Yw-slayer]

YOLO

[thesameguy]

Who works on downtime?!? Animal!!!

I use my phone for email & Facebook, while I watch Netflix from my laptop, hooked up to my TV. :lol:

I cannot support doing anything on a 5" screen while a 13"+ screen sits just out of reach. $39, FireTV + Plex. Solved. And you don't have a $1000 laptop imitating a $40 media doodad.

[21Kid]

email & Facebook aren't worthy of a $1000 laptop, imo. $40 saved. ;) Awesome value!

[thesameguy]

I.

Um.

Yeah.

[Yw-slayer]

Hey hey hey. GAMING PC BUILD Thread, there are enough other threads about the Chromecast and phones and rubbish stuff beloved by teens, CNET readers, and chavs. :p

[thesameguy]

Not following.

[Yw-slayer]

As in, stay on-topic rather than comparing a USD1000 laptop with a USD400 phone or whatever. This thread is for SRNS BSNSS l337 PC h4x0Rz talk only, not stuff that can and should be left to Youtube clickbait "Unboxing" 2-minute long "Reviews". :p

[thesameguy]

I am going to unbox a Dell XPS tomorrow.

[Yw-slayer]

Just about counts.

[thesameguy]

It comes in a brown box, which I opened and then removed the contents. Mirrored the 1tb HDD onto the 500gb SSD. Unfortunately there is no place to mount an SSD in the case. I am torn between donating my M550 mSATA drive which would mount to the board or buying a 2.5" -> 3.5" converter. The mSATA is cleaner and cheaper, but the adapter is so much less effort. I think I also need to get a USB card, as this box "only" has eight USB ports, and I'm pretty sure it needs 10. Because, you know, if something can be plugged into USB it should be. Keyboard, mouse, two printers, scanner, UPS status, doohickey that controls the home automation, place for a backup drive, webcam, and a phono preamp input thing. I actually think I am forgetting a couple things. So maybe it needs 12? Dad is ridiculous.

Edit: One of those things I forgot might be a Bluetooth dongle, and this box has that built in. So, maybe 10 or 11. Still need more ports.

[Yw-slayer]

Why don't you just get a hub instead? Or if he has a monitor which acts as a USB hub, use that instead.

[thesameguy]

His monitor is placed in such a way that the USB ports on it are useless. A hub is a definite possibility and I've been considering it - the only thing is that virtually everything he has plugged in is a cable that really has no business being anywhere but attached to the back of the computer. The hub could be useful for the kb/mouse/backup though, which is why I was thinking about it. I use this thing at work, which is about perfect for his application:

http://www.amazon.com/1byone%C2%AE-Aluminum-Charging-Support-Transmission/dp/B00UX32OX0/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1444232773&sr=8-15&keywords=aluminum+usb+hub

Only thing is, that a $30 hub vs. a $22 card doesn't make a huge amount of sense.

[Yw-slayer]

Come on, he doesn't need an aluminium 7 port hub to plug the printers into. Plus if he does then it's worth the J vestment over a card as it's easier to move to another computer and gives you 7 ports, whereas a card gives you, what, 5?

[thesameguy]

I hate and everyone should hate cheap plastic hubs that float around on the desk because they don't have enough weight to keep themselves in one place. USB hubs getting moved around by cables is as annoying as it is ridiculous. A chunk of aluminum that will stay put is in fact the only option.

[Yw-slayer]

IDK man. For 4 years I used a cheap POS USB 2.0 hub (powered) that consisted of 4-5 cubes that could rotate. My Keyboard and Mouse were plugged into it and I never moved it around (save when I had to grab it to unplug and re-plug-in the Maltron). I think it cost me USD15 and I never had any problems that I think were due mainly to the Maltron and/or the PS/2 to USB converter it was connected to. This was my work computer, too.

Obviously I'd rather than nice shiny aluminium hubs for everything, but sometimes it's "why bother"?

[GreatScawt]

So yeah... I upgraded. Long overdue!

It's the new Dell gaming monitor. 27", 1440p, 144hz, 1ms gray-to-gray response, and G-Sync. Upgrading from a 21.6", 1080p, 60hz monitor.
It is a TN panel, however, but that's okay by me. Looks good with a little correction :up:

CSGO @ 2K, 144 FPS
Fallout 4 @ 2K, 72 FPS (programmed cap, Bethesda games get wonky if FPS is too high)
Witcher 3 is staying at 1080p :lol:

http://i.imgur.com/HoOFcm2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/n9xfKCt.jpg

[Alan P]

Love getting a new monitor!

Also, Just Cause 3 £20 on PC and loving it. Rainbow six Siege, £25. The Division, £20. It's a great time to be a PC gamer. Even GTAV is coming down to around £20.

[GreatScawt]

Ohhh, Seige looks like a lot of fun. Where are those prices coming from?

[Yw-slayer]

Yeah, like WTF?

I've started playing Advanced Warfare SP. Titanfall is definitely a better game, but I don't see where all the hate comes in for AW.

[Alan P]

Ohhh, Seige looks like a lot of fun. Where are those prices coming from?


Yeah, like WTF?

I've started playing Advanced Warfare SP. Titanfall is definitely a better game, but I don't see where all the hate comes in for AW.

http://www.cdkeys.com/pc/games/just-cause-3-pc-cd-key-steam JC3 price has been edging up recently which is usually a good sign. It's a lot of fun.

http://www.cdkeys.com/pc/games/tom-clancy-s-the-division-pc-cd-key-uplay The Division, £20 (Pre-order)

http://www.cdkeys.com/pc/games/grand-theft-auto-v-5-pc-cd-key £18.79

OK, http://www.cjs-cdkeys.com/products/Tom-Clancy%27s-Rainbow-Six-Siege-CD-Key-For-Uplay.html has edged up in price, I've seen it for £25 but it's now £28.

[Yw-slayer]

Thanks. I'll wait, though.

[Mr Wonder]

So mine old faithful PC which has served me well since 2009 has died. Out with the old;

Lian Li PC A70
i7 920
X58-Extreme board
Noctua D14
6GB ram
4870x2
+ various hard drives

In with the new!

Corsair 750D
i7 6700k
Z170 whatever board
Noctua D15 - this thing is stupidly large
32GB ram
GTX980

I also consolidated hard drives. Most were hitting 4-5 years old and one was really noisy.
128GB SSD - OS - Kept from old rig
750GB SSD - Steam / Photoshop scratch disk
3TB WD Black
3TB WD Red - Kept from old rig
6TB WD Green
2TB WD Green - Kept from old rig

And a 2TB portable HDD.
Plus a 6TB My Cloud. Too much backup is never enough! :)


I also ditched my busted Logitech G15 keyboard. I now waste time on a fancy Das Keyboard 4 Professional. I kept my Logitech G5 mouse - when did mice become angular, ugly, and pimply with buttons?


It's sooooooo fast! 8+ 20 megapixel panoramas in Photoshop are now a breeze.
Pretty cool as well. Idles at 20C, hits around 67C in prime 95. Very happy camper. I just need someone to produce a 34" 21:9 wide gamut monitor and I'm set.

[thesameguy]

Sounds like a nice build! GTX980 is a BEAST!!

[LHutton]

My old PC Spec:

Dell Studio 8100(?)
i5-750
6GB DDR3
HD 5770
2TB HDD

Final new PC Spec as of December:

IN WIN 805 Case
Corsair CX750M PSU
i7-6700k overclocked to 4.7GHz
Corsair Hydro H110i GTX cooler
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Ranger
16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000MHz
ZOTAC GTX980Ti AMP Extreme currently running 1465MHz boost, 7800MHz memory
Soundblaster X7
6 year old Skull Candy ROCNATION Headphones
Razer Deathadder Chroma
Razer Control Mat
Trusty 6 year old Dell Keyboard
Trusty 6 year old XBox360 controller
Just managed to get it working with Windows 10 Lexmark Prospect SE Pro208 Printer
Intel 750 400GB
Samsung 850 Evo 1TB
Copious amounts of cloud storage that I'll never use (Intel 750 currently just over half full)
Acer XB281HK 28in 4K G-Sync Monitor
Nvidia SHIELD
New Samsung 60in UHD Nano-crystal Flatscreen TV

[Yw-slayer]

Sweet, mate! Almost the same as mine, except that I only have a GTX970, a different case, and a slightly different SSD/HDD configuration. :up:

[LHutton]

I would wait to see how this issue unfolds before committing at this stage. I personally may have made a big mistake buying an Nvidia card if this holds true.

http://gtxforums.net/showthread.php?1463-So-Direct-X-12-will-Nvidia-cards-do-it-properly-Currently-they-do-not

[21Kid]

Would it be worth it to get an entry level gaming PC, such as this (http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B011B9E928/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2G9PNM4OUY66Q&coliid=ISQ8SZ7ZSS6LP&psc=1), as a placeholder for a couple of years?
AMD FX-4300 Quad Core 3.8GHz, 8GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB HDD, 24X DVD, NVIDIA GT 720 1GB

I mostly play games Like Civ V, Total War: Shogun 2, and I want to get Cities: Skylines, which is currently too much for my 2012 laptop w/integrated graphics. I'd like to get a better PC down the road, but that's probably 2-3 years away anyway.

Do you think this would be a decent placeholder until then? Or can I do better building my own/waiting? Trying to keep it around/under $500.

[thesameguy]

I think no. The GT720 is about useless when it comes to games. You would actually be better off getting a "lower end" PC with a Skylake CPU... the integrated graphics on the mid-range CPUs are going to be faster than a low-end GT.

Personally, I would keep your eyes out for a deal on a Dell XPS 8900. They run a little more with an i7-6700 CPU. If you buy a refurb from Dell Outlet, you can get them under $500. Like:

Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i7-6700 Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.0 GHz)
Windows 10 Home 64bit English
1 TB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
8GB Dual Channel DDR4 at 2133MHz
16X DVD + RW Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 730 2GB DDR3
Black
Dell Outlet XPS 8900
$486.90 + tax.

or

Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i7-6700 Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.0 GHz)
Windows 10 Home 64bit English
1 TB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
16GB (2x8GB) 2133MHz DDR4 Non-ECC
16X DVD + RW Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 745 4GB GDDR3
Black
Dell Outlet XPS 8900
$590 + tax

Much better systems - and you can probably make some money back by removing the GT730 and using the onboard graphics on the first one. You should be able to grab a compatible R9 270 or something off fleabay for under $100. It's totally serviceable. Like:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-AMD-Radeon-R9-270X-Gaming-Graphics-Card-PCIe-2GB-DP-HDMI-2DVI-GDDR5-9T9G3-/272210105191?hash=item3f60fc9367:g:kMgAAOSw7KJXDYL F

(Nobody is going to pay $145 for that. I'd best offer it at $90 and see what happens, maybe meet around $110.)

I hope this link works:

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/Online/InventorySearch.aspx?brandId=2202&c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh&~ck=mn&dgc=CJ&cid=287135&lid=5535540&acd=12309198377458490&ven1=12382062-1225267-0d1fbea00be011e6a39ae6dd8bcd7d810INT&ven3=172702794472067521

Coupon code for 35% off is QDD35%do

Inventory shifts around, so check back until you find the right one. If you miss this sale, there will be another in two weeks or so. ;)

[21Kid]

Sweet. Yeah, obviously i know nothing about what is a good deal. :lol: This is the first time I've even looked in over 3 years. Thanks!

The link works... It looks like a list of all outlet PCs. (135 of them)

[thesameguy]

Glad that link works - you can filter on the left, I'd focus on the XPS 8900 as it's the best value vs, say, the Alienware machines. Prices presented are pre-discount, so take 35% off whatever they are. Dell messes with the bases prices and the discounts so you really need to pay attention - sometimes they increase the discount and the price, so you end up paying more ultimate. Right now - the prices and the discount - are at a sweet spot. :) $500 for an XPS 8900 is the target.

Good deal is a big variable because everyone values different things. The attraction (for me) of the Dell Outlet is you are buying a $300 CPU with an entire computer around it plus Windows for $500. The Cyberpower PC is based around a $90 CPU, so even if has more ultimate growth capability, less of the stuff you're buying up front will have a good lifespan. Buying CPUs at 35% off is a big deal. The CPU is not going to fail, so even if the rest of the machine does or you outgrow it, you still have a lot of value stored in that CPU. :)

The limitations with the XPS are physical space and power supply - you can't fit the biggest of the big video cards in there, and the PSU is only 460w. There's no beating the space, but there is room for most mid-range cards without worry. You can put larger PSUs in - Corsair and Silverstone both make 700w units that fit. The XPS has *some* growth capability, and starting with an i7-6700 means you should be able to get some really good years out of it - that CPU will be relevant for a really long time. Alternatively, buy $500 PC now, sell it in two years for $250, rinse and repeat. Used 4th gen i7 CPUs by themselves still get $200 on ebay!

[21Kid]

Is the i5 a big step down? I didn't see any for $500. :( But, this one was only $434

Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i5-6400 Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.3 GHz)
Windows 10 Pro
1 TB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
8GB Dual Channel DDR4 at 2133MHz
16X DVD + RW Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 730 2GB DDR3
Dell Outlet XPS 8900

[thesameguy]

In practical terms not really. You give up a little clock speed and some cores you probably won't use. TBH, for gaming you are probably better off going to down in CPU and using the difference to get a real GPU. There were no i5s when I looked or I would have mentioned it originally. ;)

[21Kid]

Cool. Order'd. :)


I should have put your name down as my Dell sales rep. :lol:

[thesameguy]

Nice! Should be a good machine for a good while!

If after arrival your invoice includes a line item for "premium support" you can sometimes call and say something like you didn't realize you were paying for premium support and would like to return the PC. They will typically scramble and either offer $50 back or sometimes refund the premium support which can be up to $100. Doesn't always work, but it's worth a shot. :D

Also, FWIW, the XPSs have a mSATA slot, so if you find a good deal on an mSATA SSD you have options. :)

[21Kid]

Obviously I am not qualified to say what is a good deal or not. ;) $90 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TGIVTP2/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687682&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B008393M2S&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=02XGY3NZ26XXG5JAA3ZK) for 250gb does seem steep.


Would that really help with RTS/turn based games like I mainly play on PC? I don't do much at all, with photo or video stuff, besides moving them around and cleaning them up a bit.

[Yw-slayer]

Possibly with RTS games, and even with turn-based games. Loading new textures and assets should initially be slightly quicker. But with a well-coded game I wouldn't think that there would be a noticeable difference.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, not something I'd go out of my way to pursue. First order of business is definitely a video card. :) With some diligent shopping you should be able to grab a decent one and stay very close to your original target price... and, actually have a pretty darned decent gaming machine!

[George]

Personally, I would keep your eyes out for a deal on a Dell XPS 8900. They run a little more with an i7-6700 CPU. If you buy a refurb from Dell Outlet, you can get them under $500. Like:

Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i7-6700 Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.0 GHz)
Windows 10 Home 64bit English
1 TB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
8GB Dual Channel DDR4 at 2133MHz
16X DVD + RW Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 730 2GB DDR3
Black
Dell Outlet XPS 8900
$486.90 + tax.

or

Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i7-6700 Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.0 GHz)
Windows 10 Home 64bit English
1 TB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
16GB (2x8GB) 2133MHz DDR4 Non-ECC
16X DVD + RW Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 745 4GB GDDR3
Black
Dell Outlet XPS 8900
$590 + tax


^ Thanks. That's very helpful to me. I'm teetering on the edge of a purchase very soon, if I could just convince myself that it's okay to spend that much money for a "toy". All of our computing needs are currently met, so this would be a luxury purchase, and that's the part I just can't wrap my brain around.

Anyway, initially I was looking for something powerful enough for multi-track audio recording (guitars, etc.) without latency and as long as I can plug in a large monitor, whatever video capability it happens to have has is good enough. I mean, it always has been. I've never not been able to watch a YouTube video or play a game, so why should I pony up the extra bucks for super-spiffy video? But, there must be something to having a better video card, or all this discussion wouldn't be going on. And I do remember playing an online first-person shooter for many years back east when we had a fast internet connection via the cable TV company and yet I'd get sniped constantly before I could even see who was shooting at me. I guess that's the expensive video card at work, huh?

I shouldn't skimp on a new - yes NEW, not used from a trusted used PC shop I've enjoyed doing business with before - computer, I realize. I've been buying the cheapest possible version of everything (except some guitar and bass gear) my whole life and it's time to spend some money, as much as I hate to. As I was telling someone here recently in a PM, my current (old) laptop has four USB ports, but apparently only one of them works anymore, so for example if I want to plug in my digital camera to copy pictures to the hard drive, I have to unplug the mouse in order to plug in the camera and then use the trackpad for the dragging and dropping. Same if I want to use the scanner, printer, or mp3 player. That ain't no way to live! :lol:

Our son loves video games and is developing an interest in video filming and editing, too. I'm starting to regret saying "A video camera? Yeah, I think we have one around here somewhere", as he's a budding young Señor Spielbergo now. Our daughter is a born artist and I could see getting a drawing tablet for her (and me) also. I want to have a "family computer" in the basement that's good for gaming (hey, I love video games too!) and scanning and printing, and I also want to run a HDMI cable to a not-yet-purchased HDTV for Netflix and other streaming as well. And the Xbox, too! Gotta keep priorities straight. And yes, my wife has a laptop that's perhaps a year old and seems to have enough horsepower for all this stuff, but that's hers, even if the boy thinks it's his. I want a separate desktop machine in the basement that isn't an old wreck like my two ancient laptops and the even older Mac with the rainbow apple logo.

It's interesting that TSG mentions a Dell XPS 8900, as for a few minutes yesterday I was thinking of just getting in the car and driving to my local Micro Center store and buying a computer. That's the one I saw on their website that made me think, "okay, that one might be good!".

Just for price comparison, here's what a local corporate-chain computer store is charging for the two versions of the XPS 8900 that TSG posted above...or two similar ones, anyway. The specs aren't exactly the same, but I figure it's a close enough comparison, but maybe I'm missing something. I confess I don't know what all the acronyms and abbreviations mean in the lists of specifications.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/455466/XPS_8900_Desktop_Computer

Dell XPS 8900 Desktop Computer; Intel Core i7-6700 Processor 3.4GHz; Microsoft Windows 10 Home 64-bit; 8GB DDR4-2133 RAM; 1TB 7,200RPM Hard Drive

Intel Core i7-6700 Processor 3.4GHz
Microsoft Windows 10 Home 64-bit
8GB DDR4-2133 RAM
1TB 7,200RPM Hard Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 730 2GB DDR3
DVDRW Drive
19-in-1 Media Card Reader
10/100/1000 Network
Dell 1801 802.11b/g/n Wireless
Bluetooth 4.0
Display Not Included
$700 plus tax

http://www.microcenter.com/product/455382/XPS_8900_Desktop_Computer

Dell XPS 8900 Desktop Computer; Intel Core i7-6700 Processor 3.4GHz; Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit; 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM; 2TB 7,200RPM Hard Drive

Intel Core i7-6700 Processor 3.4GHz
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
16GB DDR4-2133 RAM
2TB 7,200RPM Hard Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 745 4GB
DVDRW Drive
19-in-1 Media Card Reader
Dell 1801 802.11b/g/n Wireless
Bluetooth
Display Not Included
$900 plus tax

However, as I have no interest in Windows and choose not to spend as much as a good used car for a similar Macintosh, and as I seriously dig the Ubuntu operating system, I'm also considering supporting local business and buying a machine from Denver-based System76 (www.system76.com), such as something like this: https://system76.com/desktops/ratel or this: https://system76.com/desktops/wild-dog

I'm wondering if the money I'd save by not having to buy a copy of Windows from Dell would get me a better spec'd PC with an OS I'd install myself, but perhaps I'd get more bang for my buck with Dell hardware that I assume is shipped here by the thousands, or tens or hundreds of thousands, from China on those giant container ships. Another interesting source in the USA that I'd consider in addition to System76 is www.pugetsystems.com.

Well, I guess I don't really have a question here. I'm just rambling on, as usual, but I appreciate all the info in this thread. It's helping me get on the "everyone is buying a gaming computer" bandwagon, even if that means I have less cash for the kitchen and bathroom remodeling projects I really should be focusing on, and then there are fence repairs, too, and my car isn't getting any younger, and the kids need this, that, and the other, and on and on and on... :)

[Yw-slayer]

TLDR both options will be fine.

[21Kid]

Most places probably get big discounts on Windows. I'm not sure how much you'd really save buying a pre-configured machine w/o windows. You'd probably be able to save quite a bit if you built it yourself though.

If you go to a custom builder like cyberpower (MegaMothersDaySale (https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/LandingPages/MegaSpecial/) :lol: )or something, they will probably let you choose a different OS.

[thesameguy]

It largely depends on the size of the outfit. Someone like Dell or HP probably pays $20 or $40 for a license for Windows. But speaking from experience mom & pops don't get a big discount off what you can buy OE Windows for (about $80). They might pay $50 or $60 at the low end, it depends on volume.

From a quick perusal of System76, it seems they are very competitive with Dell, spec for spec. Dell gets you a Windows license for what amounts to free, so there's that. I will damn near guarantee System76 has better support, though. ;) As much as I like supporting local business, and having been the local guy who was overlooked for a major brand more times than I can count, I still think the smart money is on a properly-timed Dell Outlet purchase. A $435 XPS 8900 vs. an $898 Ratel for what amounts to an $80 Lian Li case? I couldn't do it. And it hurts. But I couldn't. I am definitely not at a point where $450 is money I'd spend purely on aesthetics. :( Now, if I'm my dad, and I can't stand the thought of "buying used" (ie, refurbed) because of some bizarre sense of self-importance, why not buy local? it's probably the better option. :)

On the subject of PCs for most non-gaming purposes, there is *zero* advantage in a discrete video card vs onboard 6th gen graphics. Zero, don't spend the money. The one exception would be video editing where the software can take advantage of hardware acceleration - Premiere Pro w/ discrete graphics vs. onboard graphics isn't even a conversation. I recently built a pair of machines running Quadro K2200s for Premiere, and they are FAST. It really makes me wonder what "outdated" workstation graphics cards can do in this environment. An old GTX570 still has some value, but old Quadros have about none. I really wonder if there is some economy there. But, uh, for audio or surfing the net or pretty much anything else, discrete graphics win you nothing. Video and gaming, that's where they're useful. And those super-low-end video cards like the GT745 or R5-370 aren't as good as the onboard stuff in an academic sense anyway. Save yo cash.

[SkylineObsession]

I'm a bit pissed. My ten year old compy crapped out finally a year or two ago and i was too impatient to wait for my brother to build me a decent PC to replace it, so went into a shop and bought a new desktop compy. With a tiny case, which means it's near on impossible (?) to upgrade it much. :smh:

And the reason i'm pissed about it it entirely the fault of Cities: Skylines. The only PC game i want to play, and my compy can't cope with even the minimum requirements. :(

Seriously want to play that game ay, it's killing me seeing the constant stream of pics they post up on their Facebook page. I could just unsubscribe, but... i can't. :sadbanana:

[Yw-slayer]

Wise men say: "Only fools rush in".

Hastes makes waste.

etc.

[21Kid]

:lol: That was the same reason I wanted to upgrade. My $450 Dell special should be delivered today. I'm excited. I had a good salesperson. ;)

[thesameguy]

Why not just get a new case? Or. you can cram a LOT into a small space these days.

[Kchrpm]

That's what she said.

[thesameguy]

A+ for timeliness
A+ for truth
===
A++

[21Kid]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7qDEq2bMbcbPRQ2c/giphy.gif

[George]

Save yo cash.

Thanks. Really. I'm watching delloutlet.com effective immediately. Perhaps I should be staring at the screen and hitting Refresh every thirty seconds, but I'm not quite there yet. But I'm going to buy something here, pretty soon.

That $450 difference between buying right down the street from my new office and getting a slave-labor refurbed Dell will buy me a lot of 88-key MIDI keyboard action, and other stuff, too. :up:

Last question: is it worth paying more to get more than 8GB of RAM initially, or should I buy a 8GB RAM machine and then head over to my local www.microcenter.com store and buy RAM separately to install? I readily confess I don't know much about modern computers, but back when I was a Mac Nerd in the '90s, the rule was always Buy As Much RAM As You Can Afford, and I assume that is still true.

[Alan P]

Unless you're working with big files then 16GB isn't necessary. An SSD would give a much bigger overall performance boost.

[thesameguy]

x2 - RAM is so cheap these days all you can afford would be a crazy amount!

[George]

If anyone's interested, I just went to dell.com and I see they're offering a "free" 32" TV with select computer purchases.

[thesameguy]

These are fun deals. If you buy new from Dell, be SURE to sign up for Dell Advantage Rewards beforehand. You get 5% back of your purchase in a Dell gift card and free 2nd day shipping. The gift card is *somewhat* dumb, but a $600 PC nets you a free 32" TV and enough gift card for an xbox game. :) Also, if you buy new, make sure you check out your credit card's portal - a lot of them have bonuses for Dell. AAviator cards, for example, are usually +2-5 miles on a purchase. Discover is 10% off your purchase. There are others. Yes, I buy at Dell a lot.

[thesameguy]

Thought I would mention this:

Go here: http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/Online/InventorySearch.aspx?brandId=2802&c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&fid=8781&dgc=BF&cid=22740&lid=4279737&acd=12309198376456750&ven1=10549103-1225267-0d11248a2e7711e6bc824a1e164bd3d90INT&ven3=172702794472067521

And filter "OptiPlex" from the Product Category list on the left.

Coupon code spo40OptiPlex is 40% off.

OptiPlex mostly have integrated graphics, very few have discrete. Regardless, they are not good gaming machines. But for non-gaming purposes, there is no functional difference between an OptiPlex and an XPS. There are some interesting deals here:

Optiplex 22 - 3240 AIO • Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i5-6500 Processor (Quad Core, 3.2GHz, 6M Cache, 65W)
• Windows 10 Pro
• 500 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
• 8GB (1x8GB) 1600MHz DDR3L Memory
• Tray load DVD Drive (Reads and Writes to DVD/CD)
• Intel Integrated Graphics
• 21.5inch FHD (1920x1080) Non Touch with Camera Display
• Dell Outlet Optiplex 3240 AIO

This is an all-in-one machine, everything built into a 21.5" monitor. They are anywhere from $430 to $530 after the discount.

Also:

Optiplex 7040 • Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i5-6600T Processor (Quad Core, 6MB, 4T, 2.7GHz, 35W)
• Windows 10 Home 64bit English
• 128GB 2.5-Inch SATA Class 20 Solid State Drive
• 8GB (1x8G) 2133MHz DDR4 Memory Non ECC
• Intel Integrated Graphics
• Dell Outlet Optiplex 7040 Micro Tower

These things are physically tiny. No optical drive, but built-in solid state drive. $474 after the discount. I gave my mom one for Christmas. :)

Also:

Optiplex 9020 • Processor: Intel Core 4th Generation i5-4590S Processor (Quad Core, 3GHz, 6MB Cache, w/HD Graphics 4600)
• Windows 8.1 Pro (Free Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro)
• 128 GB Solid State Drive
• 4 GB DDR3 Memory (1x4GB) 1600MHz Non-ECC
• 8X DVD +/- RW Drive
• Intel Integrated Graphics
• Dell Outlet Optiplex 9020 Ultra Small Form Factor

These are previous-generation machines (with 4th gen CPUs). Also positively tiny with no optical drive. $380 after discount. Almost free!

Also:

Optiplex 7040 • Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i7-6700 Processor (Quad Core, 3.4GHz, 8M Cache, 65W)
• Windows 10 Pro
• 256GB SATA Class 20 Solid State Drive
• 8GB Dual Channel DDR4 at 2133MHz
• 8X DVD +/- RW Drive
• Intel Integrated Graphics
• Dell Outlet Optiplex 7040 Small Form Factor

This is what I am using around the office. Very small, but they do have an optical drive. $560 after discount. I believe these have NVMe SSDs which are VERY fast, but I don't know if Linux supports them yet.

In any case, lots of good stuff packed into the $400-$600 range. In a non-gaming environment, they kick ass.

[thesameguy]

Looks like Linux does support nvme. :up:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_State_Drives/NVMe

Here is a link to that specific machine which may or may not work. :)

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/Online/SecondaryInventorySearch.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&key=aFCHatj6DNXRTsmMv4Xmdw%3d%3d&puid=c3d076d0

I think $560 for a 6th gen i7 with a 256gb SSD is a solid deal. You could do better with work, but not much.

http://i.dell.com/sites/imagecontent/consumer/merchandizing/en/PublishingImages/Franchise-category/optiplex_polaris_sub_cat_franchise_module_carousel-2.jpg

"Small Form Factor" is the one in the middle.

[George]

Info read, and will be read again to help with the digestion process. Most appreciated. Thanks, yet again!

Not that I expect anyone to care, but I wouldn't want an all-in-one. I'm all about the large monitor(s). Other than that, I'm all systems go for a Dell. I just need to screw up my courage and actually buy something, dammit. Today I saw Dell is running a coupon for $400 off an XPS box priced at $899 or higher. I was tempted, since starting at $900 would get quite the powerful machine - and yes, I'm keeping in mind your recent comments about coupons and price manipulation at the Dell Outlet.

Still watching, and still waiting, although I forget what it is I'm waiting for.

[Alan P]

Waiting isn't a great idea. It's the same as looking once you've bought. A fruitless exercise. Buy, then don't look again.

[George]

/looks for Mac/GarageBand thread...

:finger:

(but you're right...my computer wants have spilled over into too many threads)

[Yw-slayer]

This is the GAMING PC BUILD THREAD, not the Mac/GarageBand thread.

[thesameguy]

This is kind of a hell of a deal:

Dell Inspiron 3650 Intel Core i7-6700 SKYLAKE Quad-Core Win7 Pro Desktop (16GB/2TB) + AMD R9 360 GPU

Processor
6th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-6700 Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.00 GHz)

Operating System
Windows 7 Professional English 64bit (Includes Windows 10 Pro License)

Memory
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)

Hard Drive
2TB 7200 rpm Hard Drive

AMD Radeon™ HD R9 360 2GB GDDR5

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/inspiron-3650-desktop/pd?cs=04&s=bsd&oc=cai3650w7pb223&dgc=BF&cid=22740&lid=4279737&acd=12309198376456750&ven3=264002950366506967&ven1=10549103-4485850-bf27ece8556011e68d815efa6dba0ef40INT

$579.00 + FREE SHIPPING
$1,102.99 Save: $523.99 (47%)
Code: DELLDT579

If you sign up for Dell Advantage Rewards you will get free 2nd day shipping and $26 back in a Dell gift card. If you have a Discover you can also get 5% cash back. If you don't have either of these things, you can sign up for JetAnywhere and buy through them and get 6.4% back in Jet (kind of like Amazon) credit.

[Yw-slayer]

Wow. That IS a good deal.

[Alan P]

Agreed. Great deal. Swap in a good graphics card and you'll be away for the next couple of years anyway.

[GreatScawt]

Linky no worky?

[thesameguy]

Still works for me... Maybe try cut and paste? If not, just go to Dell -> Desktops -> Work -> Inspiron and you'll find it. :)

[GreatScawt]

WEIRD! Works now. Thanks! :up:
Sent it to my buddy, he's looking for a way to get into PC gaming without breaking the bank. This could be perfect gateway buy.

[thesameguy]

I am 99% sure this Inspiron shares the metal part of the chassis with the XPS 8x00 PCs, which means it has a standard-sized PSU. There is a depth restriction (160mm comes to mind) but you can find all manner of 500-700w PSUs that will fit. The factory PSU is probably a 380w or 430w, so it will limit video card selection, but you do have upgrade options if you want to move into a better card. But, for entry level gaming I think the R9/360 will at least get you going. The rest of it is pretty solid - DDR3 instead of DDR4 with Skylake will lose some performance, but whatever. It's $600! The CPU is worth half that!

[George]

General question, if there's a general answer: is it better/cheaper/smarter to buy a Dell machine with lots of RAM from Dell, or to buy aftermarket RAM and install it soon after?

The same question could be asked of video cards as well, now that I think of it.

Asking specifically about XPS 8900s I see in the Dell Outlet. Some come with 8GB RAM and lesser video cards. Others are higher spec'd, but at a much higher cost, obviously.

Just wondering if there's a general rule about these things, such as "better to buy the Big Boy up front" or "always get your upgrades separately".

[thesameguy]

There isn't really a general rule - sometimes it's cheaper to buy it altogether and sometimes it's better to upgrade after. You really have to look at any given configuration and both sides of it and see if you're better of going aftermarket. One thing that is true is that you virtually never want to change a configuration with the customization options. Those are always are rip off. Dell charges you a pretty penny for customization; the prefab shrink-wrapped setups are always superior values.

[George]

There isn't really a general rule...[yet]...the prefab shrink-wrapped setups are always superior values.

Fair enough. Thanks. I'm still teetering on the verge of indecision and weighing important factors such as New PC or New Timing Belt and New PC vs Home Repairs/Improvement and Fun of New PC vs Smaller Fun Money Account Balance.

I'll get there eventually, despite my blessed or cursed trait of indecision where money is involved.

[mk]

How short are the valves?

IMO buy cheap or not integrated.

[George]

Well, after several weeks and possibly months of watching the Dell Outlet like an eBay sniper and also comparison shopping Macs at apple.com and used ones at macofalltrades.com and a couple local sources, I saw something that was as good a deal as I'm likely to ever see, and I finally screwed up my courage and pressed the "Buy" button at the Dell Outlet today. Yay. I was happy for about two minutes.

Then my old flip-phone rang on my desk at work. It was my bank calling, wondering if I, the guy who never charges anything, had finally dusted off my old credit card and actually made a purchase. I said yes, that was me, and thanked the lady for checking. I'd hope they'd do that if someone was trying to use my CC number fraudulently to buy four fried chickens and a coke or whatever the crooks are stealing this year.

Not so fast, she told me. It seems I entered the expiration date incorrectly, she said, and Dell rejected my card. WTF? As I nearly never order anything online, I quadruple-checked everything and even spent some time wondering what's the point of having that three-digit security code on the back if everyone wants it to let you buy anything. How is that any more secure than the number on the front and the expiration date? And I'm an accounting nerd with excellent close-up eyesight. That shit was RIGHT before I pressed "Buy" or "Order" or "Abandon all hope, ye who enter her" as I actually purchased a Windows 10 computer. Eww. I feel like I need a shower. That;s okay, as I got a BigAss(TM) hard drive that I hope is large enough to support a partition for Linux (the UbuntuStudio 16.04 OS, specifically) so I can choose between good and evil.

Turns out my current card expires at the END of this month, 08/16, but they had already put a replacement card in the mail with a date of 08/19. After going back and forth between Dell's customer service phone lines and my bank's phone lines (both of which have me ready to gnaw off my phone-holdin' hand so I never have to re-live that hell again), I learned that once the bank mails the replacement card, without bothering to mention that fact to the card holder, the card in my wallet is no longer valid for online and telephone purchases.

This is why I live like Jack Reacher and pay for stuff in person with sack full o' cash and an angry glare when asked for my personal details for their corporate databases.

And, of course, by the time I learned this, Dell's phone lines closed, so I don't know if my order is still in their system or if I'll have to start all over and potentially miss what I thought was a good deal at the Outlet, combined with their current coupon of 35% off what I bought...or tried to buy...or whatever the heck went on here today.

Stay tuned. I'm tryin'.

[thesameguy]

Fuuuuuuuu. I think Golden1 (my credit union, not the bank I usually use) did that to me once *years* ago and I was so angry I drove to the branch in Davis to yell at someone. Random may have heard that, I was loud.

Edit: It wasn't the same thing, just similar - new card with a new PIN. So the Visa part of my old card was valid, but there was no way to use it to get cash and there was nothing they could do until the new card arrived. Fucking embarrassing. No idea how things like this make it out into the real world.

Edit 2: You have til 10a CST to figure it out *for sure*, but I am 99% sure they will hold your order for a full 24 hours regardless. If you want to risk it, tell them you're over it and you're thinking about cancelling the purchase altogether. They might knock $50 or $100 off. Heh. I mean, as long as you have to be on the phone anyway.

[George]

I could use a $50 or $100 bill, now that you mention it...you know, to light my cigars. :D

Well, I'm sure this will all work out fine in the morning, but it was fun to yell at clouds by posting about it here. I think you fellas just might say, for once, that I did things right...assuming I can grab this same deal or a similar one.

[thesameguy]

:up:

I too took advantage of the 35% off today -

W0CK4 1 Base,INSPIRON DESKTOP,3250
05D54 1 Module,Dual In-Line Memory Module,8GB,1X8G,1600,DDR3L
MFH16 1 Module,Card,Network,1707,Chicony Corp,Desktop,World Wide
01W11 1 Module,Dvd+/-Rw,8X,Hitachi Lg Data Storage,BARE,Across Line Of Business
T00PH 1 Module,Information,Graphics,Integrated
01CKY 1 Service Install Module,Software,DW1703/4,5320
H8D74 1 Module,Processor,SKL,I5-6400
HH5NK 1 Module,Hard Drive,1T,S3,7.2K,512E,GRDABP2
PYC0K 1 MOD,SW,W10,EDITION,HOME
CU031 1 Module,Mouse,2BTN,Optical Black,Logitech,DI
01D46 1 Module,Keyboard,104,United States,KB212B,W8,Ship In Box

Subtotal: $350.35
Shipping and Handling: $0.00

Sales Tax: $28.00
Total: $378.35

TL;DR: Slim desktop with an i5-6400, 8gb RAM, 1tb HDD, integrated graphics, DVDRW, keyboard & mouse, Win 10 Home.

I picked it up for the would-be MIL to replace the computer I gave her in - I think - 2010, but maybe 2011. It's an Athlon XP 5600+. Remarkably not bad running Windows 7, but way past its prime. I was going to put something together with stuff I have laying around, but this will be smaller and quieter than anything I could build, and it should remain more relevant for more time.... so I can get another 5 years out of it. :D

[Alan P]

I don't understand why these companies push out DDR ram in single sticks?

[21Kid]

Seems like you waited too long George. :finger:

Considering that Credit Cards expire every 4 years, it seems you hit that small 3-4 window between sending/receiving mail. I thought they stayed active until you activated the new card though. :? I know I've used my old card for days until I called to activate teh new one. But I don't remember making any online purchases... just in person.

Also, this line is golden. You should leave the typo.

"Abandon all hope, ye who enter her"

[thesameguy]

I don't understand why these companies push out DDR ram in single sticks?

You mean vs. dual channeling it?

[Alan P]

You mean vs. dual channeling it?

Yeah, it works far, far better in dual channel mode. 2x4GB would be a much better option.

Interesting article about it here (http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/1349-ram-how-dual-channel-works-vs-single-channel/Page-3) which says, basically, for normal day to day use, it doesn't matter. Which is interesting in itself.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. It's a 1%er thing. :)

In this particular case, the SFF chassis machines only have two DIMM slots, so it's really nice they do 1x DIMM, leaving you with an option for expansion. Doing 2x4gb would mean having to scrap it all and start over. I am pretty sure in the full towers they usually do dual channel, leaving you two slots for dual channel expansion.

[George]

You should leave the typo.

Heh. I saw that after I posted it and thought, nah, just leave it. Someone will crack a smile.

Well, I dunno what's going on with my order. I used the Dell chat this morning while on hold on the phone. Chat "answered" first and told me in very casual terms...meaning no confirmation numbers or anything...that everything is fine and they'll email me a confirmation. This was about 8:30 AM.

Mid-afternoon, I still hadn't received an email, so I called and got an even more casual answer. The guy said something like, "don't worry, it's been taken care of", and that was about all I could out of him. Again, no confirmation number or case number or anything I could refer back to. I thought maybe Dell has moved their call center from India to Jamaica from the "just be happy, mon!" vibes I got from that guy.

Now it's 9:30 at night and I still have no email updates or "your order has shipped" confirmations or anything like that. And, normally I wouldn't want to micro-manage this deal, but since my card was declined the first time, I'd kinda like to know if that was resolved or not, ya know? Nobody asked me for my "new" expiration date today, now that I think of it.

Oh well, I guess I'll just wait and see if I bought a computer or not.

[Alan P]

Has your card been billed?

[thesameguy]

Outlet orders take about 3-4 days to ship, so no surprise there. You'll get the ship confirmation email the day after it actually ships.

If you created an account when you checked out, you can log into the site and check your order status.

If you didn't, you can use information from your email'd order confirmation to do it - you need two pieces of information like the order# and purchase id#, or your customer# and zip code:

https://www.dell.com/support/orders/us/en/19

It'll tell you if it's held or off to production or shipped.

[George]

Got an email today saying it shipped. Woo hoo! It should be here Wednesday, and the kids start school Monday, so that means hopefully my wife can put it down in the basement while they're in school so they won't see it until I either have it set up or until I'm ready to have them help me do so, which would be Saturday at the soonest. I hope they'll enjoy it but I do not want to be hounded to death about opening the box and setting it up.

"Can we open it now Dad?"

No.

"How about now?"

No.

"Now?"

No.

"PLEASE?!"

No.

And so on, for hours without end.

And, that gives me plenty of time to read up about dual booting (which Dell thoughtfully provides a guide to at their site) with Ubuntu, prepare a new bootable USB stick for my alternate OS, monitor shopping (not a necessity, but I'd like a 24" or 27" monitor, as long as I'm getting a new machine), cleaning up the area where it will go, shopping for some musical gear that will go with it (audio interface and decent speakers first, probably).

Best part of the deal: I'll now have more than one working USB port and a P key on my keyboard! That's livin' large!

Dell Outlet XPS 8900
Certified Refurbished
Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i7-6700 Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.0 GHz)
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 745 4GB GDDR3
Windows 10 Pro
16X DVD + RW Drive
16GB (2x8GB) 2133MHz DDR4 Non-ECC
2 TB 3.5-inch SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)

And since naming the price is A Thing in this thread, here's the damage:

Subtotal: $668.85
Shipping & Handling: $0.00
Shipping Discount Applied: $29.99
Sales Tax: $26.75
Total Amount: $695.60

Best deal ever? I'm sure it's not, but that wasn't the goal. I figure it was just time to buy something and hope for the best.

A hearty and sincere thank you to everyone who answered all my dumb questions...so far! With a fancy new computer, I'm sure to have more. :devil:

[thesameguy]

It's within $100 of the best deal ever, nothing to get concerned about. And that is going to be a hell of a machine! You should be able to enjoy it, well, forever, since it's you. :P

[George]

I hope it's a hell of a machine. I bought it on recommendations from this forum just about exclusively. :up:

Any comments about my leading choice for a monitor would be welcome - you'll be sorry, you can do better for that price, you should spend more, what about Model X, and so forth are welcome if anyone feels like it.

Video card is a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 745 4GB GDDR3, which I don't know much about except it was the middle choice between the three I saw most often in the pre-packacked Dell Outlet deals - 730, 745, or 960. The price jump to the 960 was pretty big, so I went with the middle-of-the-road choice.

At first I thought I'd get a 24", since I have a pair at work and love 'em. They seem monstrous compared to my current home monitor - a Dell 20" at 1680x1050. BTW, I plan to use that 20" as my second monitor, if it makes sense, fits on my desk, and doesn't negatively affect the performance of the primary monitor.

But then a guy I work with strongly advised me to stop toying with the idea of a puny 24" screen and spring for a 27". He says it makes a noticeable difference, especially for Netflix.

Okay. Same resolution, but bigger pixels, right? And as this monitor will serve as an occasional Netflix/YouTube/Hulu "TV" until we get a big HDTV for the basement, why not?

But then I found this while web-surfing my favorite local computer store's site. It's not as expensive as the computer was, unlike some gaming-specific monitors I've seen, nor does it seem like an ultra-cheapo with a name I've never heard of before (they sell some of those, too). It seems like it might be a nice middle-of-the-road choice.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/465569/B296CL_29_Widescreen_LCD_Monitor

Acer B296CL 29" Widescreen LCD Monitor

I read a few reviews that said it wasn't the best gaming monitor ever, nor the worst, so I figure, what the hell? Gaming isn't my primary desire, but that's the performance standard, right? And I know myself well enough to know that I will find a modern first-person shooter to amuse myself with if there are still any good ones made.

Yet I welcome any comments if I'm missing something I should know about. Thanks, as always, my tech-savvy brethren. If I don't hear too many nays, I think I'll be grabbing one of these by this weekend at the latest. Fun fact: when I checked this morning from work, my local store had three in stock. Now at 7:00 PM in the evening, they're down to two. Yikes! It's a feeding frenzy!

[thesameguy]

I personally don't like 27+" monitors - it seems like a good idea, but it's just a lot of screen to look at. I run 23" at home and one of the many monitors I work with at work is a 24" and I'm good with that. 27" feels oddly big for me. I will mention that in all places I work I use dual screens, so 2 23" or 2 24" monitors. I find the layout good for computer stuff. That said, I'd agree with your coworker and that if you're going to be doing Netflix or even some gaming, a bigger monitor might make more sense. That said, I'd be *far* more inclined to just get a TV and plug it into the computer. A helped a friend set up dual screens - one 22" monitor for work and a 32" (IIRC) TV for media and gaming. It seemed a good solution.

Most monitors these days will be 1920x1080 or maybe 1920x1200 but we're finally getting higher pixel counts. If you're going with a single computer monitor bigger than 22" or 23", I would strongly look at something with more pixels. 2560 x whatever or 3840 x whatever. Part of the issue with those physically bigger displays is exactly what you stated - at the same res, a bigger monitor is just bigger pixels. You can't fit more on the screen. WRT that monitor you posted, 2560 x 1080 would be not enough pixels for me to consider a 29" display, I'd rather just have that 32" 1080p TV as a second screen, but that's a damn personal preference.

When it comes to gaming refresh rates are pretty important, but unless you're pushing your gaming it's not something I'd be concerned about. Most things these days are plenty adequate.

All in all, I think there is too much personal preference to dispense actual advice here, but these are my ideas/experiences.

If you go for a regular ol' monitor, Dell Outlet can again be your friend. 24" Dell U2412M UltraSharp (1920x1200 IPS LED) can be had for $149. This is kind of a tippy-top monitor, highly regarded. Lesser 24" monitors can get down to $90 or $100. Greater than HD monitors are still pretty new and haven't made it in quantity to the outlet. If you're going for the big single display, I'd give a hard look to Monoprice and their 4k gaming monitors like http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13809 - highly regarded at the price - or even http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13808 which is probably lateral from that Acer, but it's tough to say for sure. If you go for a regular display and a TV, if you time it right you can win again at Dell - they frequently have "TV with promo card" deals, where you get a TV and then a gift card... so for example a 32" VIZIO 1080p LED HDTV for $170, and you get back a$50 Dell promo card in a couple weeks which you put towards a monitor. Probably $250 all said and done for a 32" 1080p TV and a 22-24" 1080p non-Ultrasharp monitor.

[Alan P]

Ultra wide monitors are AWESOME! I have a similar one to that, an LG but it's the same resolution and screen size so may even be the same panel. Some games don't support it natively but many games do. I just started playing Rise of the Tomb Raider which supports it as does The Division, Every Battlefield game I've played with it, The Division and just about anything else. In-game cut scenes may only be in 16:9 or 1080p but you don't notice it.

[George]

Contrasting opinions are even better. Thanks, gents.

This weekend I'll go to the store and spend some time looking at my options in person. I'm sure that will be much more productive than clicking on web links.

The comment about using a TV as a monitor is interesting, since I've been thinking WHY NOT? for a good while now. Yet, my wife bought a pretty capable laptop about a year ago and we plugged it into our then-new HDTV with a HDTV cable I bought just for that purpose and it looked kind of strange. It was like trying to print a document when the margins aren't correct, if that makes sense. The whole thing was shaky and sort of skewed out of proportion, so - at the time - I figured that these new TVs are TVs and computer monitors must be something else entirely.

The nice thing is I don't NEED a monitor - I merely want one, and that gives me the luxury of time.

As always, I thank you guys for your input. :up:

[thesameguy]

The laptop-TV problem sounds like a resolution issue. Depending on when that happened it could just be an issue of plug & play not working right or the TV being low res - computer on 720p display looks pretty awful. If it was more recent, it's most likely a resolution problem. For computer on TV, you really, really want a 1080p TV.

[Yw-slayer]

It's resolution and/or aspect ratio. Just needs to be set to the right 16:9 or whatever format in both the TV and the laptop.

Ultra-wide monitors are good for gaming and video-watching. Not, I think, so good for productivity.

[mk]

I figured that these new TVs are TVs and computer monitors must be something else entirely.
Like tsg and yw said it's a bit different.

Get an old low res flick and resize it.
You'll see that other sizes are better.

[George]

I went to MicroCenter after work tonight and looked at monitors. That 29" Acer I linked earlier is REALLY nice. They were out of stock of new-in-box 29" Acers, which probably saved me $200. Nah, I'd never impulse-buy something like that, but it was fun to imagine I might have. I hope those aren't on close-out or anything. Hopefully they'll get a truckload of 'em in again soon.

After a little more research, I see a 34" ultrawide is the way to go right now, but I don't know if I have enough computer to adequately run one of of those, and I sure don't have a fat enough wallet. That's for damn sure, as Lee Child would add.

I also looked at literally dozens of other monitors that were on and active for me to grab a mouse and click around. They have a lot of computers running two and three monitors, so I was able to launch an Explorer window, size it, and then drag it to a different-sized monitor to compare height and width in the 27s vs. 29s.

The 28" 4K monitors and 34" curvy jobs are so nice. They make a plain old 24", of which they had more than I could count, look so small, and somehow the displays in the store make them all look smaller than I'm sure they would be at home. I'm typing this on a 20", so I'm sure a 27" or 29" (I won't go smaller than 27") will be like a lit-up highway billboard on my desk.

So, lemme get this straight, because this I still don't understand:


I'd rather just have that 32" 1080p TV as a second screen

Could I use a 32" 1080p TV as a primary - and possibly only - monitor, and have it look good and normal and not full of giant pixels? I ask because they have a couple 32" 1080 TVs for about the same price as some 27" monitors - comparing average to average here, not top-of-the-line versions of either - so why not go larger, and be able to plug cable and rabbit ears and my old PlayStation and the Xbox 360 into the TV/Monitor also?

Surely there's a reason that won't work, or everyone would do it, right?

[thesameguy]

There is nothing specific about monitor size which directly impacts the ability of a computer to run it... the issue is resolution and what you intend to do with it. Just about anything made today can run a 34" ultrawide monitor - even the cheapest budget computer - but there's a big difference between a 2k display running Solitaire and a 4k display running, say, Witcher 3. So, resolution and what you intend to do with it are more important than physical size. If you're just going to surf the net and watch movies, no worries. If you're going to play Witcher 3 at 60fps at max settings in 4k, you're going to need a lot more video card.

Same thing applies to a 32" TV question. You can use a 32" 1080p display as your primary monitor if you like the way it looks and performs... there's no inherent technical question there, the question is does it do what you want it to do? Only you can answer that! Typical questions that arise are about pixel density (is it pleasing to the eye), contrast ratios, and refresh rates. Generally, modern TVs do just fine as monitors but they often lack the refresh rates people want for computer gaming. If that's not a need you have, and it's otherwise nice to look at, I'd say go for it.

The reason those 32" TVs are less than 29" monitors is because the monitors have much higher resolutions, probably better contrast ratios, and probably better refresh rates. If you don't need those things to be visually happy by all means save the dough! As I think was discussed elsewhere, 1080p on anything over 20" just isn't functional for me - not enough pixels to put enough on the screen. I work with people who can't handle 1080p 24" monitors ("everything is so small!!!") so we have full retard 1680x1050 monitors for them. It's all personal choices.

I have been running some old 2048x1152 SP2309 monitors, but finally have a pair of Dell P2416D monitors (2560x1440) on order. Am excite.

[George]

Thank you.

Again.

Funny - I haven't even opened the box from Dell and already I'm thinking I didn't buy enough computer. :D

[Yw-slayer]

Less typing and thinking. More opening and doing.

[thesameguy]

Open. The. Box.

If you delay, and there's a problem, you're going to be sad there is another delay.

[Yw-slayer]

Exactly.

[Alan P]

Personally I found the sweet spot for 1080p to be 24". Anything bigger and pixel density starts to suffer. My 21:9 still has the same height as a 24" 1080p screen but has the extra width that makes it more immersive. I doubt I will ever go back to a 16:9 monitor now. If I do buy a new one at any point it will likely be a 34" 21:9 at the next resolution up.

[George]

Up at 6:00 AM to Open The Box! It's not that I didn't want to sooner, but the time wasn't right. It arrived on Wednesday, and the kids started school this week, which changed our carefree summer vacation evenings to more clock-watching family dinners and showers and bedtime stories. I get home later than I should since changing jobs, so there's not much evening for me to goof off and play with computers after all that, so today's my day for computer setup. We have a new color printer to unbox as well.

[George]

Browsing now from the new machine.

Two major complaints:

1. There is no Windows 10 Pro CD in the box. I guess I'll have to take this up with Dell. I've bought a few PCs before and they have always come with a copy of the OS.

2. How the #*%$ do I "activate" Windows? The first thing I tried to do is change the background picture to a solid color, which I prefer, but it says I can't change anything until I active Windows. I've googled that and have watched an endless succession of USELESS YouTube videos - all which have advertisements continually popping up, unlike what I'm used to in Ubuntu, and narration by people who can barely speak English, and videos showing right-clicking on the This Computer icon, which I don't have. Ah, but if I could just activate Windows, then I could change my Desktop icons, right?

Endless circle.

[George]

Hmm. Well, I found something on this machine, but it's not doing anything. And wouldn't ya know I can't highlight the text to copy and paste. So, I'll re-type it all, since I apparently don't have anything else to do.

"Windows can't activate now. Try activating again later. If that doesn't work, contact support. Error code: 0xC004C780."

Yay. Go team.

I'd love to just reformat to Ubuntu and be done, but without the OS on CD for a future restoration, I just don't know what to do, except to be patient and take my time and all will be well, eventually.

[George]

Well, I finally got someone on the phone who said no one can currently activate Windows. Apparently it's a "global" problem. I feel like I'm living in a Star Trek episode.

Call back later, she said. Well, sure. It's not like I have anything else to do.


Personally I found the sweet spot for 1080p to be 24". Anything bigger and pixel density starts to suffer. My 21:9 still has the same height as a 24" 1080p screen but has the extra width that makes it more immersive. I doubt I will ever go back to a 16:9 monitor now. If I do buy a new one at any point it will likely be a 34" 21:9 at the next resolution up.

Thanks Alan! I appreciate your input then, and earlier, too.

[thesameguy]

Almost no PCs come with CDs or any recovery media anymore. With 10 and its licensing change, there's no reason to. Either use a flash drive to run a backup of it, or download the latest 10 if/when you need it. You can order recovery media from Dell for $10 or $20, but there's really no reason to. There are better options.

The activation thing is perplexing. I don't think it should need to activate on an OE 10 machine, but tbh I've never paid that close of attention. Is it connected to the internet? Can you surf the net?

OH: http://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/SLN298476/en

Nothing to worry about, you can use the un-activated computer for many days before it's an actual issue. It will fix itself.

[George]

It already has. Neat.

I'll save an ISO of Win10Pro on a flash drive and feel like I've done my due diligence to be able to restore it, if necessary, in the future.

So now I stare at an empty monitor. Hmm.

I feel like I need to go buy more stuff. Perhaps a trip to GameStop is in order, to find whatever has come next after Duke Nukem 3D or Starsiege: Tribes.

And I need a USB audio interface, and a MIDI keyboard, and on and on and on for PC-based home audio recording. Time to dust off my electric guitar and bass.

More good news: I don't feel crippled by my 1680 x 1050 display. It's as large as it's ever been, and that's good enough for now.

[thesameguy]

You can run a backup of the system state straight to USB or download the Media Creation Tool from Microsoft and make a bootable/installable Win10 flash drive. No need to mess around with ISOs. The former option is probably the better option, as it will backup the install in its current patched state (maybe wait to get the 1607 update) and give you repair/recovery options the OE installer will not.

[Yw-slayer]

Both are good, given how cheap USB drives are now. Congrats on the new computer, now go do stuff with it.

[George]

Like playing Team Fortress 2? :rawk:

Fun game! Reminds me of a favorite online team-based shooter from days gone by. One of you knows the one I mean. :D This will be a good enough substitute, I expect, and the graphics are wonderful. I'm still using - for now but not for long - the same old yellowy-beige Gateway 2000 PC speakers I've used for a really long time and I almost think they sound better, all of a sudden. Nah, must be my imagination and I probably just had them turned up louder than usual.

And it looks like I may not need to rush to Ubuntu too soon. Looks like Thunderbird, Firefox, Steam, Audacity and/or Ardour (open-source multi-track audio recording software) and Hydrogen (open-source drum programming) will do everything I had hoped to do with Linux...and with those same programs, actually. Thanks once again to everyone for all the help. I'll try to stop blogging about my new computer now, but it's the first brand new (not used) computer that I (not my wife) has bought since 1996 so I'm enjoying the experience.

One last quick and hopefully amusing story, if I may...

I had been concerned that my over-the-top tech-obsessed son would absolutely FREAK when he saw this huge, shiny, new desktop computer. Nope.

It has dawned on me that me may not know what a desktop computer - as compared to a laptop, tablet, or phone - even is. The only other "desktop" computer in the house is an all-in-one Mac. This new PC looks like a suitcase sitting on a table, by comparison. I don't think they have desktop computers in classrooms. In the main office, certainly, but only iMacs in the classrooms I've seen, on teachers' desks, hooked up to printers and projectors and smart-boards.

And nowadays, instead of telling kids to pull out their Number 2 pencils for tests, they pass out iPads. Crazy! But no desktop PCs, I'm thinking.

I was sitting down here Saturday morning when he ran down to see what I was up to. Same desk, chair, monitor, everything....except a big ol' desktop computer on the side of the desk that sits in a corner of the room, so it's kind of way off to the side. What he used to see is my old laptop in the center of the desk, open of course, but with the internal monitor off and the external monitor on. This time, he just saw a keyboard and no flipped-up laptop screen.

It took him maybe two seconds to glance at the screen and comment that I was running Windows, and then he said, "Dad, did you get a new keyboard?"

Ah, the innocence of yoot. :)

Edited to add (among other things) - nope, I met my wife in 1995 and I already had my first Mac then, so it wasn't 1996 when I got my last brand-new new computer with the new car smell.

[Yw-slayer]

I meant "Go do stuff with it other than posting GNJ stories. Stuff like playing games."

[Kchrpm]

Like playing Team Fortress 2? :rawk:

Fun game! Reminds me of a favorite online team-based shooter from days gone by. One of you knows the one I mean. :D This will be a good enough substitute, I expect, and the graphics are wonderful.

Get Overwatch.

[Rare White Ape]

The comment about using a TV as a monitor is interesting, since I've been thinking WHY NOT? for a good while now.



That's what I do. It's the easiest way to get the biggest and brightest picture out of your 'pooter, especially that it's so easy now with HDMI-HDMI auto-detect where the computer can tell you what the native resolution of the screen is.

But your drawbacks are that TVs absolutely do not have the same clarity as a monitor (yep, as you said elsewhere, TVs and monitors are very different beasts), and with most TVs you'll be limited to 60fps, and as far as I know that's even including the 100/120Hz panels you can get.

TVs are excellent for movies and games off a PC, but a little bit weird to use for other normal computery functions.

[thesameguy]

I have never done anything like this in my life. I hope it's not a giant letdown.

Alienware Aurora R5 Base
Intel® Core™ i7-6700K Processor (4-Cores, 8MB Cache, Turbo Boost 2.0, Overclocked up to 4.2GHz)
Windows 10 Home 64bit English
Alienware™ 850 Watt Multi-GPU Approved Power Supply with High Performance Liquid Cooling
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1080 Founders Edition with 8GB GDDR5X
16GB DDR4 at 2133MHz

Last month I ordered a pair of P2416D monitors (24" 2560 x 1440) to replace my aging SP2309wc monitors (23" 2048 x 1152) as I had an alternative use for them (donating to a family member). While we were gone I received a hard-won credit from Dell and I'm putting it towards the Alienware. I've never bought a desktop/gaming computer for me as I always build and I've never had all new stuff at once, there's always carryovers. This is a big expense and a lot of new. Hopefully it makes getting the expensive version of FH3 worthwhile. ;)

Also, I guess Alienware is bundling "Battlefield 1 Preorder Edition - PC - Electronic Software Download" and there s no way of unbundling it. I have zero interest in it. If anyone wants a reduced cost version, lemme know.

[Yw-slayer]

I'm happy to take it off your hands. But then again, I won't have time to play it. I think someone like AlanP would benefit more from it.

Congrats BTW, that sounds like a right beast! Especially that 1080.

[21Kid]

Nice!

I got a 1060 for my setup. Now I just need a SSD.

[Alan P]

I have never done anything like this in my life. I hope it's not a giant letdown.

Alienware Aurora R5 Base
Intel® Core™ i7-6700K Processor (4-Cores, 8MB Cache, Turbo Boost 2.0, Overclocked up to 4.2GHz)
Windows 10 Home 64bit English
Alienware™ 850 Watt Multi-GPU Approved Power Supply with High Performance Liquid Cooling
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1080 Founders Edition with 8GB GDDR5X
16GB DDR4 at 2133MHz

Last month I ordered a pair of P2416D monitors (24" 2560 x 1440) to replace my aging SP2309wc monitors (23" 2048 x 1152) as I had an alternative use for them (donating to a family member). While we were gone I received a hard-won credit from Dell and I'm putting it towards the Alienware. I've never bought a desktop/gaming computer for me as I always build and I've never had all new stuff at once, there's always carryovers. This is a big expense and a lot of new. Hopefully it makes getting the expensive version of FH3 worthwhile. ;)

Also, I guess Alienware is bundling "Battlefield 1 Preorder Edition - PC - Electronic Software Download" and there s no way of unbundling it. I have zero interest in it. If anyone wants a reduced cost version, lemme know.

I would certainly be interested in the BF1 code. Let me know what you're looking at for it. I can get a Key from an online store for £33 or thereabouts. That certainly looks like a beastly machine!

[thesameguy]

The PC is supposed to ship late next week - I imagine I'll find out more about the code then.

I'm thinking like $20. It just needs to go, otherwise it'll sit around with Black Ops that never even got opened. Blah.

Speaking of, I still never played the last Batman game. It's sitting with Black Ops :down:

[Alan P]

Batman game is awesome! And I can certainly do $20! Let me know when you get it and we'll sort something out. Only issue I may have is Paypal and I had a falling out a couple of years ago and I haven't used them since.

[thesameguy]

Meh - we'll figure it out!

Maybe I will give Batman a go on the new rig. It'll be a couple months before I get into any PC gaming (it's warm, I'm outside as much as possible) but this was a Now type of deal and I had to pounce. ;)

[drew]

I've never actually gotten my hands on an Alienware machine. I'm sure that thing will suit your needs for quite a while.

The only thing I've upgraded in 2 years was my gfx card. My power supply is the oldest part at almost 8 years old, but it still kicks the shit out of everything.

[thesameguy]

Considering the newest thing I have right now is a 4670k, I may never need to upgrade again! ;)

Well, technically that is not true. I have a 1tb m2 SATA SSD which is only about six months old, but I feel like upgrading/replacing storage is an inevitably outside the normal upgrade cycle. ;)

But seriously... I am kind of hoping to never upgrade again. :D

[Alan P]

Buy well, buy once. At least sometimes when it comes to PC components. Motherboard, CPU and half my RAM are from June 2011.

[Yw-slayer]

For sure. I moved from my 2600s to 6500s/6700s recently, but That was mainly for USB-C and more USB 3.0 ports. Also because #newstuff

[Kchrpm]

Buy well, buy once.
:up:

[thesameguy]

I think you'll find buying components here and there every so often over time is the correct approach.

[21Kid]

A++

[drew]

I built a 4790k two summers ago, re-using my power supply from 8 years ago and a 2 year old GTX680.

The card got replaced this year, but the rest of it doesn't seem to want to stop, I put 32gb of ram in it and a 500gb SSD, so I'm good.

It is fun going through my order history on Newegg, dating back to 1999.

[thesameguy]

My stuff has come from so many scattered avenues I couldn't go to one place and see it all. I *think* my oldest component is the Thermaltake case, which I got to replace my previous Antec 900 as it would not fit the video card I had. I honestly don't remember much else about that system.

The outgoing system is:

Some MSI "Gaming" board
A 4670k (although it could be a 4690k, now that I'm thinking about it)
16gb of G.Skill DDR3
ASUS GeForce GTX 670
Pioneer Bluray drive
So much storage... I think two 1tb m2 SSDs, a 512gb mSATA SSD, and a 6tb Hitachi HDD
All in a Thermaltake case with a PCP&C 850w PSU (IIRC)

The case is from '08 or '09 and the storage mostly from this year. Everything else is in the middle somewhere.

My PC is a big legacy - an amorphous thing I can trace back uninterrupted to the early '90s when I built a 386SX involving 2x4s. :lol: This will be the first time in my life everything will be all new at once. Or, I guess, could be all new at once as I'm moving all my storage into the new Alienware machine. Probably the bluray drive as well. ;) Not scrapping that investment! It'll still be the highest end system I've ever owned - I usually buy last year's square-in-the-middle stuff. I would have done that again, but I couldn't think of anything else to blow a Dell credit on. ;) The Aurora was almost a 70" 4k, but the current Vizio TV still smells new to me and I really intend on seeing how OLED does. So, new PC for me it is!

[George]

For anyone here, but especially TSG, since we've discussed Tribes before: http://www.tribesascend.com/

I tried to install it through Steam and it wouldn't work with Win10. I uninstalled it from Steam and downloaded it directly from the website and it works great. It's missing some features and some of the wonder and amazement from the groundbreaking original Starseige Tribes, but it's good enough IMO, if you're feeling nostalgic and want a free game for your new PC.

[thesameguy]

A friend of mine is an old-school Tribes addict - like, he never stopped playing. It's the only game he plays! He also mentioned it's pretty cool, so I will have to check it out!

[thesameguy]

Well, Dell completely screwed the pooch on this order. I don't specifically know what went wrong, but the order was held and then nothing happened.

They finally got it straightened out week before last (!!!). Unfortunately, they could not fulfill the order so we had to cancel and reorder. Down side is that no Battlefield comes with the reorder as it was a limited offer. Up side is that I get upgraded to a BD-ROM and the faster HyperX RAM for free. Kind of a big win, actually. Although, I have 16gb of regular DDR4 sitting at home I was going to install for 32gb, and now it'd be pointless to do that. Meh... 16gb is beyond plenty anyway. Now I will have to find a use for or offload the DDR4.

Anywho, the replacement system is on a truck and scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Very excited about getting it. Probably means less FH3 this weekend than I'd planned on - I will need to free up my old system so I can offload it, get some cash back. So I can put that into the Jeep. :lol:

[Alan P]

No BF4? :( No worries mate. Enjoy the extras!

[thesameguy]

Saves me a bit of work swapping stuff, anyway!

FedEx dropped the beast today... it is smaller than I thought it would be, but I am just fine with that. No idea how it stays cool - it is *dense*. Unfortunately I realized on Wednesday that the Aurora supports NVMe m.2 drives, whereas I has originally thought it only supported SATA m.2 drives, which I have. Well, I am doing this once so I ordered a Samsung SSD and it won't be here til Monday so the Aurora must sit and wait. Gives me time to think about how much I really need to write BDs... because that is something I won't be able to do anymore unless I throw some money at the problem.

[thesameguy]

Check out how cramped it is in there:

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/delete/alienwareguts.jpg

Power supply folds down on top of it!

Amazon says my m2 will actually be delivered today, so I got something to do tonight! (instead of going to SF with friends, wtf is wrong with me?)

[Alan P]

Really doesn't look like much airflow through that case. Where/how does the graphics card get it's air from?

[thesameguy]

No idea! :lol:

There are two fans in front, but they are more or less "used" by the two 3.5" HDD bays right in front of them (although I will only be using one, the second blows "through" to the GPU). There is that big fan on top that blows across the CPU and to the back of the video card. There are two fans (I think) in the PSU. Obviously the CPU is liquid cooled. I don't think there are vents on the bottom, but now that I say that I don't know that I looked.

What's noteworthy here is that I don't care. :up: I bought a computer with this configuration, and it damn well should work! If it doesn't, I get to send it back. Man, that is a computer freedom I have literally never had in my life! :lol: I have not read about any problems with this machine in the three months it's been available, so I guess they must have done their thermal design properly. Those accounts I've read indicate the GPU has headroom to overclock and the CPU will stay at 4.2GHz ("factory overclocked") more or less indefinitely.

The only two thing I really have to run on it are Arkham Knight and FH3... we'll see how they do at 2560x1440, I guess!

[thesameguy]

Weird:

System came with a 2tb SATA drive with the BIOS set to RAID (vs. AHCI). I cloned that drive to a 256gb m.2 NVMe drive and rebooted. I kinda expected Windows 10 to just figure it out, but it kept failing to start. I need to admit, I don't fully understand how Win10 boots, but none of the normal tricks worked... recovery, HAL removal, blah blah. I was about to give up and just reinstall, but figured I'd see what safe mode did. I expected total failure - Dells go through their setup process on first boot, so safe mode shouldn't work. And it didn't - got an error saying setup could not be run in safe mode, please reboot. Clicked okay - and then the system booted into the setup like it should. Very weird, really don't get it. I guess some interaction between Windows 10's user customization routine and hardware detection system.

:shrug:

System is running now, so I am doing a little prep on the old system to get data ready to move. JOY!

[thesameguy]

Whoops.

Aurora only has four SATA ports and I need five for a short while. Drat.

https://www.amazon.com/Oyen-Digital-M2S-U3-SL-External-Enclosure/dp/B019NNEBDQ/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1476655093&sr=8-6&keywords=m2+sata+usb

$20 weirdo m2 to USB box? Maybe.

[thesameguy]

Earlier this summer I bought this thing:

https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-Multi-Size-Dual-Converter-UGT-M2ST220/dp/B01B12DYIU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477427164&sr=8-1&keywords=vantec+m.2

to connect two 500gb m.2 SATA drives to my PC. It's worked great, but as part of the Aurora update I replaced the 500gb drives with a pair of 1tb m.2 SATA devices. This thing could not handle them! Inexplicably, it worked fine in a Win10 PE environment, but once in Win10 transfer rates dropped to zero and the thing would start clicking. HWAT.

Over the weekend I got one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Crest-Enclosure-Adapter-Components-SY-ADA40087/dp/B00OKSFF76/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477427284&sr=8-1&keywords=iocrest+m2

and it seems to work just fine with the 1tb drives. It costs more than the Vantec and takes up more space - on my old system that would have been an annoyance, but since the Aurora is limited to four SATA devices anyway it's not a big deal. The second one is coming today, so I hope that means I can actually start using the Alienware system at long last. :up: More importantly, it means I can sell my old system and get some money for drugsnhookers or whatever.

I will mention I agonized about this

https://www.amazon.com/SEDNA-HyoperDuo-acceleration-function-included/dp/B01EHKCMIG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1477427406&sr=8-4&keywords=m2+pci+raid

Cool, compact device for making a solid state RAID array. Unfortunately I can't afford to do a mirrored array and I sure as shit don't trust straight up striping. If I had better self-discipline, I would do the striping and auto backup those drives to the server, but doing that in a time-efficient manner would mean buying some software and doing some management. I do that 60 hours a week for pay. I'm not signing up for any extra IT shifts at home! Screw that noise.

Still, a super cool device. :P

[Yw-slayer]

You crazy mother.

[thesameguy]

I got needs.

[thesameguy]

https://www.amazon.com/ZTC-Enclosure-Adapter-SuperSpeed-ZTC-EN004-BK/dp/B00KQ4LNJC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477546032&sr=8-2&keywords=m.2+usb

Old 500gb m2 SSD on the xbone? You betcha.

Also, I fired up Arkham Knight for the first time ever. At max settings except only 4x AA filtering at 2560x1440 60fps, vsync limited, on the Aurora. This seems to be a mighty fast machine.

[Rikadyn]

Check out how cramped it is in there:

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/delete/alienwareguts.jpg



In contrast, here is my case

http://i.imgur.com/XkVe0eS.jpg

[thesameguy]

That's how my old PC looked!

https://images.craigslist.org/00K0K_jjx8dy7e6cb_600x450.jpg

I guess Dell figured out a way to cram more stuff into a smaller space, which in some ways is the upside of prefab boxes. I know sometime down the road I'm going to want to add something that won't fit and I'm going to be annoyed, but until that day comes I'm happy. :)

On the subject of happy, although it's probably the wrong spot, I got my "rewards" credit for the Alienware computer today and immediately spent it, too. Dell sells 3D printers now, and I got them to price match Amazon.com on the XYZ 1.1+. It's not the world's greatest 3D printer, but it seems like a good starting place so I went for it. I am $23 out of pocket on it, so really even if it's terrible I'm not going to be too mad at it. ;) Hopefully I can think of lots of 8x8x8 doodads to make with it. ;)

http://us.xyzprinting.com/product/da-Vinci-1.1-Plus

[Rikadyn]

actually yours still looks smaller, mine has 4 240mm fans (2 top 2 side) though only 3 are working

[thesameguy]

It might be - it was the mid-size Cooler Master case at the time, there was a bigger one. It had way more room than I needed even when components were bigger and less powerful. That was part of the sales pitch on the Alienware - I know things are real small these days. If it fits an overclocked i7, a GTX 1080, and way more storage than I need it'll probably be okay. I mean, what else is there?

[Rikadyn]

capture card for streaming. I think my case weighed like 25lbs when it shipped to me. I got it mostly because of the quick swap hdds and massive amount of fans

[thesameguy]

I haven't had any sort of TV service since 2003, so probably not something I'd need to invest in. ;)

[Rikadyn]

I meant for streaming to Twitch and the like, though shadowplay works i suppose

[GreatScawt]

I've been hemming and hawing about a 1080. I want one.

Anyone possibly interested in a 980 FTW?
It's actually being replaced right now, as it was having some intermittent black-screening issues that I dealt with for a while (it was just that rare). Then it started doing it in one particular spot of the BF1 campaign that I couldn't avoid. So EVGA, being awesome, are replacing it over a year after purchase. I'm gonna test it and make sure the replacement is good, but otherwise, if anyone is interested, you'd be getting pretty much a certified, tested, and possibly new card from what I understand.

[thesameguy]

It's been a long time since I was genuinely excited about a video card, but the 1080 is worth being excited about based on my limited experience. :)

[Yw-slayer]

Dunno, it's cool but I think the 1070 is BETTER VALUE.

[Rikadyn]

and here i am with a 660...

[Mr Wonder]

Allegedly the 1080ti will be announced/released in January so you may want to hold off in case it drops the price of the 1080. But yeah, the want is strong.

[Alan P]

Yeah the 1070 is the better value card. The 1080 is 10-15% faster for £150 more.

[GreatScawt]

Oh I'm aware. :lol:

[GreatScawt]

1070 FTW purchased. Good deal on Newegg right now, plus it comes with Gears 4.

980 claimed.

EVGA still hasn't shipped back my replacement 980 yet. Hmm.

[Alan P]

I forgot to add, upgrade!

Goods Ordered (prices in GBP)
£0.00 x 1 - 8Pack Approved - Elite Tier SkyLake Bundle: Intel i7-6700K @ 4.50GHz *BLACK FRIDAY INSANITY*
£113.87 x 1 - Asus Maximus VIII Hero Intel Z170 (Socket 1151) DDR4 ATX Motherboard
£2.25 x 1 - Asetek Premium Retention Kit Intel LGA115X (35-150-0000014)
£2.84 x 1 - Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut High Performance Thermal Paste - 1 Gramm
£44.40 x 1 - Asetek 240mm 570LX (35-101�-1012209) **PICK FOUR SCREW BAG PER COOLER**
£45.54 x 1 - GeIL EVO X 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-19200C16 2400MHz Dual Channel Kit - RGB
£7.37 x 1 - System Build Fan - Noiseblocker BlackSilent Pro Fan PLPS - 120mm PWM [EXNO-001]
£7.37 x 1 - System Build Fan - Noiseblocker BlackSilent Pro Fan PLPS - 120mm PWM [EXNO-001]
£193.02 x 1 - Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz (Skylake) Socket LGA1151 Processor - OEM *HOT DEAL*
£0.00 x 1 - FREE WITH BU-044-AS: INTEL PROMO: WarHammer End Times Vermintide & Rainbow Six Siege PC Games
£66.66 x 1 - Intel 600P 256GB M.2-2880 PCI-e 3.0 x 4 NVMe 3D NAND Solid State Drive (SSDPEKKW256G7X1)

Sub-Total: 483.32
Shipping: 0
VAT: 96.66
Total: 579.98

[Mr Wonder]

Holy shit - that is a hot deal in the processor! I paid £330ish iirc. Nicely done sir.

[Yw-slayer]

Nice one!

[GreatScawt]

Nice upgrade! I'd love to go Skylake eventually.

So EVGA finally sent a replacement out. They informed me that they did not have a 980 FTW available to replace it with. Womp womp.

So they sent me a 980 Ti FTW.

OK. :rawk:

[Alan P]

Oh no! how could they!

[21Kid]

Nice! :D

[Alan P]

Finally got my 6700k i7/1080/16GB Ram build together and it's going well so far. Hoping this will suffice until 2019 anyway.

[Yw-slayer]

Yeah, should be fine. You'd probably be OK with a 2600K.

[drew]

:up:

[Tom Servo]

In my attempts to get the Oculus Rift working (it's since been RMA'd, waiting for the replacement), I basically went nuts with the updates. i7-7700k, 16 gb RAM, GTX 1080. Holy fuckballs is this thing fast. Seeing at least a 100% increase in framerate, Assetto Corsa is averaging 135fps with all the settings cranked, and Project Cars looked pretty damn brilliant. Waiting on iRacing until I get the new Oculus, which hopefully actually works.

My favorite part is the insanely fast boot time into a fresh Windows 10 install. I swear, it's about 5 seconds after the BIOS screen goes away.

[GreatScawt]

Awesome! That's how to do an upgrade. :up:
Did you grab an SSD in the process or just the memory and CPU make it boot that much faster?

[Tom Servo]

Oh, I already had an SSD (half terabyte Samsung 840 Pro), so I formatted that and made that my boot/games drive. I do need to get another SSD though, half a terabyte is only so much room these days. Forza Horizon took up nearly 60 gigs. 'Course, it's also horribly broken, so I ended up uninstalling it anyway.

[drew]

:up: The 1080 is a fuckin beast. I haven't even bothered overclocking it. See no point. I was toying with the idea of getting the new Titan, but, I thought, why. The 1080 annihilates what I'm using on it now. I can spend that extra $500 on something more responsible. Like Lego.

I'm still on the same setup I built in summer 2014 (except the 1080). The Power supply is from circa 2005? Dunno, 750W PC Power and Cooling, it's been running virtually 24/7 for well over 10 years.

[Tom Servo]

It really is. I knew they said it was a big leap over the previous generation, but I'm used to an upgrade getting me like a 40% boost if I'm lucky. This is at least 100%.

And with a big reduction in power usage as well. The thing is damn near silent even when I'm hitting it with a particularly nasty game.

[drew]

I went from a 680 to the 1080. It was almost comical.

[Alan P]

Have to say going even from a 980 to a 1080 felt like a significant boost. I can't really be subjective though as it was also part of an upgrade to i7 and 16GB ram.