In a galaxy far, far away... [Star Wars omnibus thread]

[Kchrpm]

I chose not to watch it, since I've felt like I've seen too many eventful scenes/visuals before seeing major movies lately. I do like that people who have seen it are so positive about it :up:

[Alan P]

I suspect there's been some very clever cutting and editing to make us jump to conclusions that may not be entirely accurate.

[MR2 Fan]

I suspect there's been some very clever cutting and editing to make us jump to conclusions that may not be entirely accurate.

I agree, but I hope not, because that would be cheap

Anyway, I was really trying to decide last night whether to watch the trailer or not, but glad I did....it didn't really spoil anything for me and looks very good.

[21Kid]

I chose not to watch it, since I've felt like I've seen too many eventful scenes/visuals before seeing major movies lately. I do like that people who have seen it are so positive about it :up:

Agreed. If I know I'm going to go see it. As is the case with this, and the last two SW movies, I've avoided watching any of the trailers.

What's the point if you are going to see the movie anyway? ;)

[MR2 Fan]

For some reason I thought there would be some giveaway of more of the plot in this trailer that I didn't want to get "spoiled", even though I'm not a HUGE Star Wars fan. The other thing is that the trailer is practically unavoidable as it's been popping up EVERYWHERE

[FaultyMario]

Movie trailers, like STDs, are totally avoidable.

[21Kid]

I guess I don't go to the movies enough to see them very often. :shrug:

[Kchrpm]

Oh yeah, I'm seeing Blade Runner tonight, it'll definitely be shown during that.

[Rare White Ape]

Movie trailers, like STDs, are totally avoidable.

Whereas I try and get as many of one of them as I can.

[MR2 Fan]

from Twitter:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DL4oKtZW0AAyinV.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

:lol:

Got my tickets for opening night.

[novicius]

Yep same here -- 9:15 showing @ Dec. 14th. :up: :up:

[Alan P]

Remember when the first time you saw a trailer was at the cinema, before another film you'd come to see?

[Kchrpm]

7:00 PM IMAX 3D purchased.

[JSGeneral]

Needed to be posted.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfINpLDE_s4

[Dicknose]

Well the new movie is good!
Nice balance of action and plot, kept cute marketing creatures to a minimum. Plot had enough to keep you guessing and nothing that jumped out as totally stupid.
Still it misses the charisma of Harrison Ford!
It was long, but kept me awake (a 1am session).
I guess it was the lack of annoying things from previous movies. It didn’t bog down (no pod racing!) No annoying character. No ewoks! And the bad guy was done well.

Saw it in 3D which was ok. Nothing too crazy but it does add a bit to it. Choosing to watch in 3D was done on ticket availability!

So definitely go see it. And enjoy.

[Rare White Ape]

I’m seeing it tonight at about 7. Can’t wait!

I am turgid with excitement.

[Rare White Ape]

My workmate went and saw a 12:00 showing this morning. He said that just before the main feature rolled there was a SWBFII ad from EA, which copped big boos from the audience.

I thought it was funny.

[Rare White Ape]

About halfway through, during a very meaty and oh-so satisfying lightsaber battle against praetorian guards, I realised that The Last Jedi is a true rival to The Empire Strikes Back.

Is it the best Star Wars film ever made?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I haven't seen it.

So how the fuck would I know? Why are you asking?

[Freude am Fahren]

I was supposed to see it tonight at 10:30, but had to bail. :(

[novicius]

Shit, I gotta give it a "C+". (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/) :smh:

Stolen from Reddit but echo my thoughts pretty well:

SPOILERS

Humor was absolutely forced into this movie -- Guardians of the Galaxy effect?
Snoke build-up falls flat. Horribly so at that.
Leia space walk, biggest WTF moment
Ren still "no light left" bad
Rey still "only hope in the galaxy" good
The only thing the writers wanted to do was give Luke a sendoff. Was it good? Nope.
Yoda moment was kinda cool.
Conflict was stupid, plot goes nowhere.
Finn and Rose arc literally has NO purpose... Other than killing many people.
Cute and furry animals are fine. But you don't have to beat us on the head with it.
Phasma was probably more useless than Boba Fett.
Truth about Rey's parents could've been poetic. Was it? Nope.
Kylo Ren's reason for turning on Luke, a "he-said/she-said" style mess.
Poe's character is super-predictable -- and I enjoyed that.
Looks gorgeous.

At 2h 33m this is a LOOONG movie, too.

This movie's writing & characters makes me appreciate SW: Rogue One more, honestly.

"All I can think of now, when I think of Star Wars, is how outright horrible the lives of my heroes ended up. None of them had anything resembling happiness in the least tiny bit." -- @ProfHWalsh (https://twitter.com/ProfHWalsh/status/941616450418200576)
"This movie did something I didn't think possible. It made me wish George Lucas were still in control of his property." -- Daniel W (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/reviews/?type=user) :lol:I will be watching the returns with interest. (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars8.htm) Will this movie have legs?

It's a pretty Star Wars film but it's long and divisive (audience reviews on all major sites are all in the 50-60% range).

[Kchrpm]

I enjoyed it. They took some major chances with some major and minor story beats, and I'm glad they did.

Edit: Reading Carlo's spoilered points, I agree with a few but disagree with many of them being poorly done. I think some of the side story bits were meant to change the way we and the characters feel about the war. We have an assumption, and have from the beginning of the Star Wars series, that this is a very cut-and-dry good vs evil story, but I think TLJ does an excellent job of pointing out how much more complicated this universe is than that.

[novicius]

I certainly don't begrudge people for liking the flick, it's just not to my tastes. :up: #badtaste

[Crazed_Insanity]

So how did you rate force awakens? Was it an D- or F I hope?

I hope TLJ would at least be better than FA?

[Cam]

I was entertained. C'mon, novi, I would rate it a B. It had some horrible WTF moments, but it had redeeming qualities as well. I felt like it did not flow very well, like it was written by a focus group. "Whuddya want in there?" "Cool ships, chase scenes and explosions, EFF YEAH!" :lol:

[novicius]

Last night I left the theater at "B-". I even began my post here at "B-". So we're not that far apart, Cam. ;)

It's only after talking it out with other friends that my grade slipped down.


EDIT: As of this post, it's got a 57% "Rotten" Audience Rating on RottenTomatoes.com (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/#audience_reviews) (out of 63,933 User Ratings [Average Rating: 3.4/5]).

Metacritic User Reviews are at 5.3/10 (http://www.metacritic.com/movie/star-wars-episode-viii---the-last-jedi/user-reviews?page=1). In a world where a "7" is considered a failing grade by most consumable media. :smh:

[Rare White Ape]

Novi you missed ALL the nuance in this one!

‘Cept I agree with you that Snoke was more than a bit disappointing and that Finn was a wasted opportunity.

Still, I’m extremely intrigued about who Snoke is and where he came from. I can see a plot twist coming in the third film. I’ll read the character page on Wookiepedia later on to see if there’s anything juicy in there.

And did anyone notice that Luke was the antagonist in this story? In the original films things were told from his point of view so we followed his arc through his eyes, new and learning about the galaxy. But this time it was through a new ‘new’ character’s eyes, but he wasn’t there to help Rey. He was the bad guy, not just a speed bump on Rey’s journey but an active roadblock. When she finally confronted him she defeated him. Wise old Luke, the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy… beaten by his student.

And she stole the ancient texts before Luke burned the tree :lol:

Yoda knew that he still had a lot to learn.

That’s some pretty powerful shit right there.

[sandydandy]

Do we learn the identity of Supreme Leader Snoke?

(Yes or no will do, no spoiler necessary. I’m still going to watch it no matter what).

[Kchrpm]

Yes.

[Kchrpm]

RWA-
I think a key part of the movie if is blowing up the idea of simply antagonist vs protagonist. People do good and bad things for good and bad reasons, and just knowing what someone's actions and feelings are doesn't mean you understand them.

Snoke was literally reading Kylo's mind and seeing his future, and still didn't see that he was going to betray him. Rey saw the same thing as well and also didn't understand it.

And we don't even know how Kylo would have ruled the universe, especially with Rey at his side. Maybe he didn't have an evil, cruel dictatorship in mind, or maybe he did. We don't know enough about his character, and neither does Kylo. He struggled to kill his father, couldn't kill his mother, killed his Dark Side tormentor, and was seemingly offering to end Dark vs Light, Jedi vs Sith, and bring a true balance to the Force and the galaxy.

[Rare White Ape]

I’ve seen it twice now. I’m such a hardcore star warts fan ^_^

Luke is like this movie’s version of the eagles. When things go really bad, Gandalf summons the eagles and they save everyone at the last minute.

There are a few extra deeper things (for a Star Wars film… hey, it’s no Inception) I picked up 2nd time through.

Kylo Ren knows that he isn’t connecting himself and Rey through the force, and he knows that Rey isn’t doing it either. He says that the effort required would kill her, that its “something else,” foreshadowing both Luke’s death for narrative reasons, and that he knows Snoke might be up to something.

That something would be Snoke’s betrayal of Kylo Ren. Snoke made it clear that he was disappointed in him. And knowing the Sith, Kylo Ren would be dropped like a hot potato if a stronger Rey could be turned. What we saw in the film was a classic Sith overthrow. It’s just a thing they do, and they’ve been doing it for thousands of years. It was mentioned by Yoda in Episode I (always two, there is) and we witnessed it in Episode VI.

Rey’s haircut changes when she falls into the water and enters the dark cave under the island. From then she loses the triple buns and sticks with the straight hair. This is probably not a conscious choice by the character, but definitely a narrative decision by the writers. It signifies the change in Rey, in a long sequence starting with her decision to seek out the dark place, when she confronts her fears inside the cave, begins to understand the lack of significance of her parents, hears the truth of what happened at Luke’s temple, realises that Luke is no help to her, and beats him fair and square in a straight fight of wits and strength. Rey eventually let’s go of her final weakness (her parents) so she is basically invincible from here on out.

Yoda knew that Rey stole the Jedi texts, which is why he didn’t hesitate to burn the ancient tree in front of Luke. He knew they were safe before using that deception as a way to cause Luke to take action. Or maybe I’m wrong about that and Yoda actually doesn’t care about the old text books and is happy for things to start fresh.

And a final plot point; Luke basically gives up on Kylo Ren (running theme of letting go of the old stuff) and makes peace with his failure, but this might be to help fuel a good lot of questioning among the audience about Kylo’s conflict. Is he still good inside, or is he truly and finally bad? Rey did also say that he is their only hope.

Also, nobody says that they “have a bad feeling about this.” Which is ok.

[Leon]

Just came back from watching it.

I'm a pretty enthusiastic Star Wars fan, and this one only rates a fairly good from me. I thought it was a little bit silly in tone, with some "groan" moment jokes.

What actually was the point of Finn being in that movie? Maybe that entire side adventure will turn out to have a point in the third movie.

Why did Grand Poobah Laura Dern not explain the plan to Gung Ho Pilot man, such that he didn't then almost make a total balls of it?

Why did Grand Poobah Laura Dern not kamikaze the cruiser through the bad guy big badaboom ship once the transport ships started being fired on, since apparently kamikaze is a viable option? Rather than wait until they were 75% destroyed.

Partially leading to the question, why didn't they kamikaze the bad guy ship earlier, rather than all running from it, and being picked off one at a time?



I'm not hating on the film. But it wasn't as good as I thought it might have been. Maybe it needed more Empire Strikes Back "we're all f**ked" vibe about it?

[sandydandy]

Yes. Awesome!

Is he......Mace Windu?

Again, yes or no.

:D

[Kchrpm]

No.

[Jason]

I mostly enjoyed it, but there was some really awkward scenes that could have been cut. Excited to see where things go as the old cast is phased out.

[Yw-slayer]

I thought it was great. Some parts A, some parts C. Overall, worth it for explosionz and stuff.

[MR2 Fan]

Just watched it and then watched some spoiler reviews on youtube to see other people's takes as well.

First, not being a die-hard Star Wars fan, I enjoyed it, however I do think at 2.5 hours, some of the sub-plot stuff could be removed



This movie has a LOT to take in.

Wait, we found out who Snoke is? I didn't notice that.

Rian Johnson turned lots of existing notions on their head and I wonder how much JJ Abrahms likes or approves of this, since he's basically book-ending this trilogy now (I guess that wasn't the case during filming of Episode 8 though as we didn't know who would be directing 9 at the time??)

I didn't really mind the side story of Finn and Rose. There were some political points being made and it is relevant to today (oligarchy, gambling, weapon sales and animal abuse, etc.) so I can't fully fault them for it.

However Rose basically screwing up the mission though seemed really out of place and I don't feel like Finn feels the same way toward her. They didn't have any other romantic feeling moments up to that point.

I didn't mind seeing the extra force powers being used as it's possible that the Skywalkers are just much more powerful now, though the Leia flying through space scene was a bit strange.

The notion that we kind of saw in Rogue One also...that the force is everywhere and it's not related to "special" powers is interesting and destroys the midichlorian crap once and for all.

I loved the Yoda sequence as it was done really well.

oh and I feel sad for Admiral Ackbar dying, was hoping he'd survive the whole series.

[sandydandy]

I still haven’t seen it. Was kinda busy over the weekend and couldn’t get around to it. I guess I’ll try next weekend, but I’d prefer to see it after the rush has died down a bit. Trying to avoid spoilers in the meantime.

[Leon]

There's lots of people taking the movie way too seriously.

Watching a right old bitch fest going on at another forum about this movie.

Glad I didn't put my 2c in over there.

[novicius]

Yep, I could pour out a thousand words over this -- but why bother?

My "official Disney canon" is intact. I've got seven live-action Star Wars movies I can enjoy with my fam. Potentially three more coming as well (Solo, Boba Fett & Yoda) if they're good. Plus both the Clone Wars & Rebels animated shows. More than enough official content to keep me satisfied. :)

::

In other Star Wars news, I love this compilation. <3 <3 <3


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0biqMZrxJ0

[Cam]

Wow. Harsh. :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

There's lots of people taking the movie way too seriously.

Pretty much. Anyway, Star Trek is much better.

[21Kid]

I was supposed to see it yesterday, but the wife was sick. It seems like I have to avoid pretty much anything online not to spoil this movie. Even some of the above info has stuff I had to try and skip reading that's not hidden.

[Phil_SS]

I'm with Carlo on this one. I enjoyed the movie but some of the decisions were just WTF.

And I thought I understood the Force but now I don't, all these strange new powers and such.

[MR2 Fan]

I believe it's just an idea of having the 8th film of the series and up until this point, it's arguable that Ep 7 was basically repeating previous plot points, and my guess is that they wanted to mix things up, otherwise we're just repeating the same story with slightly different tone.

Having said that...

There really isn't a big cliffhanger that I feel like for the 9th movie, or any big questions I have any more

I was very impressed by this review by Screen Junkies as they hit on all of the points especially well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfbGm_SkPeU

[novicius]

Counter-point. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL5oCP0VIEI

[MR2 Fan]

this kind of reminds me of the Matrix:Reloaded in some ways when "The Architect" gave people tons of things to think about and argue about....and since that is the case, I want to wait until Ep.9 to make final judgment as we're not in the final episode of the story yet. Things can change. Maybe Kylo is telling lies to Rey, maybe Snoke is Dark Plageus and isn't dead yet.

What if Luke is not entirely right about the Jedi/Force? The appearance of Yoda and his IMO completely perfect reaction was great. Will Rey and others create a new thing that isn't the Jedi but better? And where are the other people who left with Kylo Ren? Someone suggested that they were the red guards around Snoke but I don't think so

[Sad, little man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhkgohG9lTM

[MR2 Fan]

sorry, I had another thought.....this really is like The Matrix: Reloaded in that Rey is playing Neo and Kylo Ren is Agent Smith and they both seem to have equal power going into the next movie. Ok, maybe a bit of a stretch. I kinda wish Rian Johnson was going to finish what he started with Ep 9.

[Yw-slayer]

Anything that pisses off people who consider themselves "hardcore" Star Wars fans, and who take this shit way too seriously, gets a massive YES!!!!! from me.

The Last Jedi is definitely the best Star Wars movie ever. :D

[novicius]

YW is the Loki of the GTXF. :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

May the Troll be with you. :D

(I honestly thought it was a good movie)

[Rare White Ape]

As did I.

[Kchrpm]

MR2:

And where are the other people who left with Kylo Ren? Someone suggested that they were the red guards around Snoke but I don't think so
Jason and I were talking about that. The people that left with Kylo are likely "The Knights of Ren" and my guess is that they were off doing other things for the First Order/Snoke at the time. They could easily be brought in as the underlings to Kylo in IX as part of the antagonist team, to attack the Resistance, Rey *and* Kylo.

[Kchrpm]

And I thought I understood the Force but now I don't, all these strange new powers and such.

They intentionally wanted to mystify the Force some more, bring it back from vaunted bloodlines and midichlorians. I think the actual explanation given was pretty cool. A lot of the abilities they showed were pretty similar to and/or plausible based on things we've seen before, or that they've shown before in other media (apparently one big thing in particular was just done in Star Wars Rebels), but the fact that it doesn't necessarily have hard and fast rules or limitations seems to be intentional. It's a mystic cosmic force of the galaxy, after all.

[Rare White Ape]

Includes spoilers to Rebels and Ep 8, in case you were wanting to watch it:

I'm a geek so I read a lot of the expanded universe novels back in my feckless yoof, especially some of the work of Michael Stackpole including his X-Wing series and I, Jedi. They contain some of the earliest explorations of Jedi powers beyond what was depicted in the original trilogy, after the Thrawn trilogy was written and kicked Star Wars back into the mainstream. It goes without saying that if you took what was in those three original films in isolation as your only reference then you're missing out on a LOT of stuff. Suffice to say, Disney didn't fully throw out the entire Legends catalogue when they wiped the slate clean. There is still a ton of content from the expanded universe that has made it into the new trilogy, it has just been very faithfully adapted and used in the new storyline.

This is probably why it was a bit WTF?? for people when Leia transported herself back to Home One after the bridge got blown off the ship - there are a lot of subtleties in the current depiction of the Force that are not completely new, they've always been there but not everyone would have ever consumed media that has touched on it before. If Leia ever gave up on leading the resistance, she would have had plenty of free time to undertake proper Jedi training, and she would therefore be extremely powerful, given her lineage. It's easy then to understand that in a moment of sheer desperation, as her life is in grave danger, she would easily find the power to pull herself back to safety.

It's seen in other feats of physical and mental strength from untrained Force users as well: a young Anakin Skywalker built C-3PO and won his first pod race. His son Luke blew up the first Death Star without his targeting computer in his first time piloting an X-Wing. Rey is an accomplished pilot and martial artist, and nearly bested Kylo Ren the first time she ever used a Lightsaber. She also resisted Ren's mind probe, which we saw utterly devastate Poe Dameron only a few minutes earlier in the film. These people are not just lucky golden children of desert planets full of sand that's coarse and gets everywhere. They've got a gift that allows them to do amazing tasks without even trying. And they're not the only examples - the old expanded universe absolutely contains instances where a character always had something inside them that has always been there but they didn't realise it, as in Rey, who is now woke AF to the Force.

Even the stuff in Rebels isn't too far out of the realms of 'realism' in Force lore. Kanaan lost his vision and still gets around like a mad man. They find a pack of Loth-wolves who transport the main characters through caves in a dream state from the northern hemisphere to the southern hemisphere of Lothal. There is a huge creature called The Bendu who is neither dark or light, but sees all things and takes no sides, only giving guidance to those who are balanced, and thinks little of the Sith Holocron that Kanaan and Ezra had worked themselves into a lather over. It's all fascinating stuff once you get into it.

[Freude am Fahren]

Do we learn the identity of Supreme Leader Snoke?

(Yes or no will do, no spoiler necessary. I’m still going to watch it no matter what).


Yes.

We did??? Other than seeing him in non-holigram form, what did we really learn about him?

I overall liked it, but thought they went a bit forced on the comedic relief (I like the "Guardians effect" way of putting it).

That said, some of the 'odd' moments are fitting for Star Wars. Think about the originals and how odd they were when they came out. I think the series may have been taking itself too seriously lately. But some of the moments were really poorly chosen. The shirt comment was the worst. Totally the wrong moment for a comment like that.

The Disney was strong with this one. You could just feel the mouse's influence in a lot of parts.

[Cam]

Yeah, I think it's a kids movie, but then there are graphic scenes too. :|

[Kchrpm]

I thought the shirt comment was great. I don't think it's a kids movie, just like I don't think Empire Strikes Back was a kids movie. I think it's a 18-35 male movie, like almost all Star Wars and action movies have been for decades now. The relative/perceived maturity of that demographic shifts over the years, and between people, and the broad-ness of the comedy included can confuse things.

FaF, RE: Snoke:
My take is that we find out he doesn't matter. He's no one, a red herring, meant to hide us from the true antagonist of the series: Kylo. Just like we find out who Rey's parents are: no one. I really hope they don't retcon either into being more important lore-wise.

[novicius]

"Lore". :lol:

The incandescent crystalline structure that is being constructed in real-time right now @Disney is this:

1. J.J. Abrams wrote a lot of open lore threads into "The Force Awakens".

2. Rian Johnson literally erased most of them.

3. J.J. Abrams is writing & directing Episode IX.


I put real good odds on J.J. retconning a lot of Rian's decisions in this offensive mess of a movie. Looking forward to it. :lol: :) :up:

[Kchrpm]

JJ Abrams also did that with Lost (created numerous open lore threads) and had no idea how to satisfyingly close them. People lambasted him for it. Could he just open up even more, and leave them to "never" be closed? Sure. Rian Johnson is doing the next trilogy, and it will not be based on any characters we have ever met in the movies, so Abrams could leave plenty of open lanes for the new extended universe to swim in.

[Freude am Fahren]

Ah ok, that makes sense.

[Freude am Fahren]

It kinda seems like JJ's m.o. is to purposely create things that don't mean anything, or at least ever get explained.

His original movies (Cloverfield, the other alien ones) basically do just that in 2 hours.

[novicius]

As a SW fan it's honestly easier for me to just write-off J.J.'s nuWars trilogy if he doesn't retcon anything.

I just think it would be god-damned hilarious if he does. :D

[Rare White Ape]

You’ve gotta remember guys:

1) This new trilogy has had its trajectory planned out for years now. The overall storyline is set in stone, and the scripts come later to flesh out the details.

2) The Lucasfilm Story Group has any canonical movements locked down tight as shit yo. Nothing happens in-universe without their approval. This is mainly to prevent an uncontrolled and convoluted expansion of the universe again, like what happened to the old EU, but also to give each individual story it’s own breathing space.

Which is to say that any conspiracies about Abrams and Johnson wrestling over loose ends, or things being retconned, is probably very unfounded.

[Rare White Ape]

But, that’s not totally discounting the ability of the script writers to monitor audience reaction to the latest movie and make adjustments. Filming of Ep 9 starts in a few months…

But then again, why would you want to satisfy SW fandom? Rabid fans are literally the worst. Rule #1 of franchises like this is no never give the fans 100% of what they want - always leave them on the hook for the hope of a payoff down the track.

[Leon]

Episode 2 definitely popped the bubble of some of set ups from Episode 1 (of this newest trilogy), which was disappointing.

Some of the ranty video reviews are extremely amusing, and do raise some valid points. I can't take them all that seriously, but they do ask some pointed questions of the script, and quite a few of the decisions in this latest movie.

[Yw-slayer]

There's a great article at verge.

https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2017/12/19/16796228/star-wars-the-last-jedi-admiral-ackbar-fan-expectations-canon-theories-rian-johnson

"More than anything, mourning over Ackbar’s death in the The Last Jedi feels like mourning over fan-made canon. It’s mourning over hypotheticals and a childhood nostalgia that remembers Ackbar as something bigger and better developed than he was. And that’s fine! Nostalgia, memories, and in-jokes are a big part of a fandom. But there’s a weird dichotomy where those stories and meanings start to take precedence in people’s minds over the actual canon. For better or for worse (probably for the better), Star Wars isn’t a democracy — we don’t ask for a show of hands to plot the movies, we put our trust in the creators who make more of the thing we love. And yes, sometimes that means the particular character or plot point we love doesn’t make the cut. But personally, I’d rather have new and controversial choices that advance what the series can be, instead of an endless loop of safer, fan-pleasing decisions that tirelessly recycle the same handful of characters."

Too true. Suck it down, loser star wars fan boys. :lol:

Also remember that lots of the rant videos are at least partly clickbait. Whatever the case, I find this outcome great.":lol:

[Kchrpm]

1) This new trilogy has had its trajectory planned out for years now. The overall storyline is set in stone, and the scripts come later to flesh out the details.

2) The Lucasfilm Story Group has any canonical movements locked down tight as shit yo. Nothing happens in-universe without their approval. This is mainly to prevent an uncontrolled and convoluted expansion of the universe again, like what happened to the old EU, but also to give each individual story it’s own breathing space.

1) I think you're overestimating how much that trajectory has been locked down. I have a feeling that the writers were given a TON of free reign within the framework, and the interviews I've read seem to reflect that.

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/16/the-last-jedi-spoiler-rey-parents/2/

Writer-director Rian Johnson prefaced his answer by saying J.J. Abrams and Argo Oscar-winner Chris Terrio are currently writing the next movie right now.

“I can’t speak to what they’re going to do. And there’s always, in these movies, a question of ‘a certain point of view,’” Johnson said, invoking Obi-Wan’s line from Return of the Jedi, explaining why he told Luke his father was dead rather than the truth that he had become Darth Vader.

“But for me, in that moment, Kylo believes it’s the truth,” Johnson added. “I don’t think he’s purely playing chess. I think that’s what he saw when they touched fingers and that’s what he believes. And when he tells her that in that moment, she believes it.”

In other words, in that pivotal scene, he knows what he and his characters believe to be true, but the writers for Episode 9 could be changing that, and he has no knowledge of it.

Similarly, he got to make the decision of whose Rey's parents were, and simply told JJ of his decision.

http://www.slashfilm.com/reys-parents-rian-johnson/


In Last Jedi, we get the revelation that Rey is the child of no one of significant value. Can you talk about how you came to that conclusion?

That was like everything else in the movie, something that I came to through a process of breaking the story and figuring it out. The nice thing was I didn’t… I was very thankful there was no slip of paper that was handed to me that said Rey’s parents are so and so. The fact that I had the freedom to figure it out meant that for this story I could figure out the most dramatically potent answer to that question.

But you talked to J.J. [Abrams] about it.

I did yeah, oh yeah. Yeah. He didn’t, no, he didn’t dictate anything to me.

He didn’t have any idea?

Well, I don’t know. He might have had thoughts in his head who it was going to be, but he didn’t dictate them to me. He left it open, you know.

2) Jason and I were looking today, there is a HUGE berth surrounding this trilogy.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_books

23 years between Aftermath: Empire's End (1 years after ROTJ) and Bloodline (6 years before TFA), which is apparently mostly a political novel about Leia in the Galactic Senate and forming the Resistance. There's also a book about Captain Phasma's history which apparently has an unclear timeline.

Point being that there is no EU for the current trilogy at this time, or really any media at all other than Battlefront II and the movies. Since the next trilogy isn't going to be involving any of the current characters or settings, my guess is that they'll let people go hog wild when Episode 9 is out, because they're never going to touch those people again (until the 2040s when they decide to do it all over again).

[Leon]

Krunch, the Rian Johnson spoilers above certainly make him come across as a huge douchebag, or that there really was nearly zero effective communication between him and JJ Lostboy.

[novicius]

Yeah Episode IX is gonna be a shitshow. :D.

Very much looking forward to Rey being Shmi Skywalker's great grand-daughter. :lol:

I mean it's J.J. Abrams: people thought that TFA was simply a remake of ANH -- don't you think there's probably good odds he remakes RotJ/RotS? :lol:


EDIT:


There's a great article at verge.

https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2017/12/19/16796228/star-wars-the-last-jedi-admiral-ackbar-fan-expectations-canon-theories-rian-johnson

"More than anything, mourning over Ackbar’s death in the The Last Jedi feels like mourning over fan-made canon. It’s mourning over hypotheticals and a childhood nostalgia that remembers Ackbar as something bigger and better developed than he was. And that’s fine! Nostalgia, memories, and in-jokes are a big part of a fandom. But there’s a weird dichotomy where those stories and meanings start to take precedence in people’s minds over the actual canon. For better or for worse (probably for the better), Star Wars isn’t a democracy — we don’t ask for a show of hands to plot the movies, we put our trust in the creators who make more of the thing we love. And yes, sometimes that means the particular character or plot point we love doesn’t make the cut. But personally, I’d rather have new and controversial choices that advance what the series can be, instead of an endless loop of safer, fan-pleasing decisions that tirelessly recycle the same handful of characters."Too true. Suck it down, loser star wars fan boys. :lol:

Also remember that lots of the rant videos are at least partly clickbait. Whatever the case, I find this outcome great.":lol:
I look forward to J.J. destroying this POV -- and to YW's inevitable claims of "WHATEVS I DONT CARE STER WERS SUCKS IM OUT OF HERE!!" followed by him posting this opinion over and over and over again in this thread. :) #salute

[Yw-slayer]

More goodness.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-last-jedi-killed-my-childhood-and-thats-exactly-wh-1821429836

Suck it down, Star Wars obsessed "you ruined my childhood" fanboys. Life's not fair and that's what you get for projecting all your hopes and dreams into an overrated opera featuring space wizards. :D

[Jason]

I don't understand why everyone needs Rey to be related to the Skywalkers. We still have a Skywalker in this story in Kylo... Rey is just a powerful example that there are still 'light side' force users that aren't related to the 'royal family', so to speak.

Regarding my feelings on other stuff:

- Snoke was under developed. He didn't need to be related to anything in previous movies, but he did need to be developed a bit more for us to be shocked, and/or care during the 'twist' at the end. The way he was handled in the two new movies, I was wholly unsurprised when he got chopped in half.

- I liked Luke's characterization in the movie. He's always been conflicted and whiny, so why wouldn't he still be after a huge fucking tragedy (which he may be responsible for). My only beef with the way he was presented was the fucking creepy, gross milk scene.

- I see bitching about Rey being too powerful, too quickly. Or too capable, or whatever. By the time we see her first in TFA, she's been fending for herself for years. You have to be pretty capable to get to that point. How many complained that baby Anakin won a pod race that no human could win, or Luke was suddenly an X-Wing ace within their first movies? The sexism of the nerds is strong.

- Admiral Akbar is overrated. Objectively it makes sense to not give him too much play in his death. But nostalgia wanted it to be him performing the kamikaze. Which, speaking of, was an amazing and beautifully done scene.

- I understood what they were trying to do with the slow space chase, but for whatever reason it fell flat for me. It didn't really feel like it built tension very well, and I grew bored of it pretty quickly. I wonder if incorporating some dog fights during the war of attrition would have sold it better. Related, as it was presented, keeping the plan secret from Poe felt off, like they had a main plot and a side plot they wanted to do, and couldn't quite figure out how to make it work.

- On the side plot, I liked that we got to see some commentary on classes, war profits, animal cruelty, etc. BUT, their mission also seemed kinda pointless in the end, like it was specifically only there to make said commentary and to find an excuse to have Finn and Phasma square off (another underdeveloped villain).

- I have no problems with the Force being expanded on, it's been expanded on over the years in all sorts of media. It started as basically moving things, and using a laser sword. Then we got sparkle hands, super flips and jumps, references to prolonging life or bringing people back from the dead, etc. It's clear that there is much that can be done with the Force, and I'm glad it's not just mild telepathy and telekinesis.

Overall I'm very mixed on the movie. I liked the message and story they were intending to go for, but execution fell short in many ways for me. It's not my favorite Star Wars movie, and it's not my least favorite. I am excited to see JJ Abrams back for Episode 9, and I think Rian Johnson could do some really fun things when he's not beholden to existing characters.

I'd really like to see a big movie trilogy that had nothing to do with the Skywalkers, but gave us expanded lore on the Force, Jedis and the Dark Side. That'd likely need to be well in the past or well into the future of the current movies, but so be it.

[novicius]

In other news, TLJ received a 58% drop in business on Monday (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=starwars8.htm) as opposed to TFA's 33% (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=starwars7.htm). :finger:

The drops are the countdown ticks of doom to the quiet non-announcement that Disney is not moving forward on Rian Johnson's trilogy. Better keep buying those tickets if you want to see that, nuWars fanboys! ;)


EDIT: Rotten Tomatoes Confirms Its 55% 'Last Jedi' Audience Score Is 100% Authentic (https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/20/rotten-tomatoes-confirms-its-55-last-jedi-audience-score-is-100-authentic/#2805dd954231)


On Tuesday I spoke at length with Rotten Tomatoes spokesperson Dana Benson regarding the movie ratings site's Audience Score of 55% for Star Wars: The Last Jedi.

I was curious to know whether there was any merit to conspiracy theories that have circulated in recent days alleging organized vote campaigns to drive down the film’s scores from their “proper” levels, and why there is such a big disparity between the mediocre Rotten Tomatoes audience ratings and other, higher critics' and viewers' responses, such as the “A” rating from Cinemascore.

Ms. Benson, who is the Vice President of Communications at Fandango, the parent company of Rotten Tomatoes, told me that Fandango and Rotten Tomatoes are fully confident in the ratings and scores for the Star Wars picture. She assured me that Rotten Tomatoes has gone to great lengths to verify their ratings' accuracy and authenticity.

“We have several teams of security, network, and social database experts who constantly monitor reviews and ratings to ensure that they are genuine,” she told me.

“They haven’t seen anything unusual with The Last Jedi, except that there has been an uptick in the number of written user reviews submitted. Aside from that, everything is normal and we don’t see any unusual activity."

"We looked at The Last Jedi compared to other blockbusters and it has been consistent with those past films.”
:popcorn:

[novicius]

I don't understand why everyone needs Rey to be related to the Skywalkers. We still have a Skywalker in this story in Kylo... Rey is just a powerful example that there are still 'light side' force users that aren't related to the 'royal family', so to speak.
Ultimately I'm fine with Rey's "She's-A-Nobody" background. :up:


Regarding my feelings on other stuff:

- Snoke was under developed. He didn't need to be related to anything in previous movies, but he did need to be developed a bit more for us to be shocked, and/or care during the 'twist' at the end. The way he was handled in the two new movies, I was wholly unsurprised when he got chopped in half.
Agree.


- I liked Luke's characterization in the movie. He's always been conflicted and whiny, so why wouldn't he still be after a huge fucking tragedy (which he may be responsible for). My only beef with the way he was presented was the fucking creepy, gross milk scene.
Disagree. Luke is the hopeful one, he never gave up on Vader, there is NO WAY he'd draw down on a sleeping Ben Skywalker. He would sooner eat that blade himself vs harm Leia's child. As well as rejecting the Jedi Order? I don't agree and I don't want to pay to see that story over and over, easy.


- I see bitching about Rey being too powerful, too quickly. Or too capable, or whatever. By the time we see her first in TFA, she's been fending for herself for years. You have to be pretty capable to get to that point. How many complained that baby Anakin won a pod race that no human could win, or Luke was suddenly an X-Wing ace within their first movies? The sexism of the nerds is strong.
Agree.


- Admiral Akbar is overrated. Objectively it makes sense to not give him too much play in his death. But nostalgia wanted it to be him performing the kamikaze. Which, speaking of, was an amazing and beautifully done scene.
Disagree. If you're gonna go through the effort of bringing a much-loved meme'd character back, spacing him without any recognition isn't really winning hearts & minds of the fans.


- I understood what they were trying to do with the slow space chase, but for whatever reason it fell flat for me. It didn't really feel like it built tension very well, and I grew bored of it pretty quickly. I wonder if incorporating some dog fights during the war of attrition would have sold it better. Related, as it was presented, keeping the plan secret from Poe felt off, like they had a main plot and a side plot they wanted to do, and couldn't quite figure out how to make it work.
Agree.


- On the side plot, I liked that we got to see some commentary on classes, war profits, animal cruelty, etc. BUT, their mission also seemed kinda pointless in the end, like it was specifically only there to make said commentary and to find an excuse to have Finn and Phasma square off (another underdeveloped villain).
Agree.


- I have no problems with the Force being expanded on, it's been expanded on over the years in all sorts of media. It started as basically moving things, and using a laser sword. Then we got sparkle hands, super flips and jumps, references to prolonging life or bringing people back from the dead, etc. It's clear that there is much that can be done with the Force, and I'm glad it's not just mild telepathy and telekinesis.
Agree.


Overall I'm very mixed on the movie. I liked the message and story they were intending to go for, but execution fell short in many ways for me. It's not my favorite Star Wars movie, and it's not my least favorite. I am excited to see JJ Abrams back for Episode 9, and I think Rian Johnson could do some really fun things when he's not beholden to existing characters.
Disagree. This trilogy is a mess at best. J.J. is not the guy to run any franchise with lore, obviously. Rian Johnson is equally garbage with lore. Stick to one-shot indie films, kid.


I'd really like to see a big movie trilogy that had nothing to do with the Skywalkers, but gave us expanded lore on the Force, Jedis and the Dark Side. That'd likely need to be well in the past or well into the future of the current movies, but so be it.
Agree. :)

My simplified/abbreviated responses to Jason.

[novicius]

TLJ's Tuesday Domestic is $20.4 million, fails to pass Rogue One's first Tuesday (http://deadline.com/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-tuesday-rakes-in-20-4m-1202230506/). :finger:

Much less TFA's first AND second Tuesdays. :lol:

[MR2 Fan]

I want to go watch it again as I'm so internally conflicted but maybe that's the whole point of the movie :p

[Jason]

Carlo, are you just bored, or are you really this passionate about disliking this movie/Rian Johnson? It seems like an abnormal amount of trolling/hate for someone who is your age :?

[Rare White Ape]

He thinks this movie is a Trumpian load of liquid shit, yet he loves Destiny 2.

I sense much conflict in him.

[novicius]

LoL why are you singling me out when YW is hurling insults and dancing on Star Wars fans' graves? :lol:

[Jason]

Because I tend to gloss over YW's posts :finger:

But also, answer the question. Why are you excited to hate the movie?

[novicius]

Ok fair point, fair point. :lol:

I enjoy tracking movies (tho' Ross knows I'm largely inaccurate most of the time :D ).

I vaguely dislike J.J. Abrams work in the past but thought he did ok with TFA, and added some fresh characters that can add to the SW lore.

I immensely dislike Rian Johnson's refusal to add to the lore and reject the lore. Do not like. :down:

So I would still track TLJ if it did well... but the fact that it's beginning to trend down? Shit, that's just frosting on the cake! :lol:


2787

:lol:

[MR2 Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFnFr-DOPf8

[novicius]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGWuOAgU7jI

[Leon]

Inheriting a movie in a franchise that has so much lore, and then disregarding / discarding the lore seems as counter intuitive as mocking fans of a movie franchise in a thread discussing said franchise.

[MR2 Fan]

I almost feel like we should just have a spoilers thread, but anyway....



I think this movie goes into a lot of ideas that aren't exactly obvious on the surface. Did it subvert the existing force stuff? Yes and no. From what I've heard (and I know the EU is no longer canon), the things we see in this movie were discussed before, such as flying and a "force bubble" to protect Leia from the cold.

I do agree there were a lot of things thrown out after TFA and maybe it was done a bit haphazardly in some places, but people are discussing the CRAP out of this movie and what it means. Perhaps there is something about the force that is no longer "focused" within a few people but because some of the old jedi and sith masters are dying out, the force is able to spread to more people? I'm not an expert, I'm just wondering as a casual fan who hasn't read any extra novels or other non-movie stuff.

In a way I feel like Kylo Ren could be an extension of Rian Johnson's take on the current franchise.

We could have the same beats of the previous movies....where Rey is a Skywalker, Snoke is a sith-like enemy and there's the same pull to the dark side by Kylo Ren, but we've seen that play out before.

Anyone notice that Luke's behavior when he nearly killed Kylo Ren was similar to Mace Windu's reaction when he tried to kill Palpatine, and both weren't following the Jedi teachings? That's the one thing that mirrors really accurately.

It is clear after they discuss it that Jedi aren't always the "saviors" of the galaxy and do bad things as well.

My take after thinking about this is that there is no longer a big separation of "light" and "dark" side, and there's a spectrum of both in Rey and Kylo Ren....the difference isn't what their feelings are, but what their actions are...........and isn't that a metaphor for us? Luke was scared because he may not have been able to view and "visit" the dark side without fearing he'd get sucked in as his father. Rey seems to be able to.

So the balance of the force isn't just separate people, but internal balance as well. This is very ying-yang type of stuff.

Having said all of that, I DO wonder what JJ Abrahms is thinking right now.

[novicius]

Succinct and to the point, Leon -- well said. :up: :up:

[Blerpa]

I liked the movie, a lot.
Fuck star wars fans (no one in particular, seriously, just saying).

[Crazed_Insanity]

Inheriting a movie in a franchise that has so much lore, and then disregarding / discarding the lore seems as counter intuitive as mocking fans of a movie franchise in a thread discussing said franchise.

Haven't seen the movie still, but these are truly unbelievably wise words!

Just fucking enjoy the movie or not!

[Rare White Ape]

I liked the movie, a lot.
Fuck star wars fans (no one in particular, seriously, just saying).

I’m a huge Star Wars fan, that much should be obvious to the casual observer, but I also loved the movie as well. I thought it was phenomenal.

So yeah, fuck Star Wars fans. And fuck Rick And Morty fans.

And most of all…

Fuck Star Trek fans :p

[Yw-slayer]

Inheriting a movie in a franchise that has so much lore, and then disregarding / discarding the lore seems as counter intuitive as mocking fans of a movie franchise in a thread discussing said franchise.

"Fans" don't own the franchise or any part of it. The things that Carlo complained about are the very things that I LOL about everytime I think of some outraged 400lb Comic Book Guy spitting bile about how only "his and TRUE FANS'!!!! " understanding is right.

Not that Carlo is that guy. He agrees with several of the other points, so he's not totally lost. :D

[novicius]

Hey thanks! ...I think. :lol:

[Leon]

Damned by faint praise.

[MR2 Fan]

I think Rian Johnson is going to be looked at badly by a lot of fans no matter what happens. If Episode 9 is good and clears things up, people will say JJ Abrams fixed it. If it goes badly, people will blame Rian Johnson for ruining it, starting in the previous movie.

[Rare White Ape]

I honestly don’t know what the friggin problem is. It’s a great film! Damn fine, in my book.

Turns out I’m not such a precious SW fan after all (though I did suffer my way through Crystal Star many years ago - it does tend to rattle one’s purist outlook of what a random EU story should be).

[Yw-slayer]

It means you have a life.

[novicius]

I honestly don’t know what the friggin problem is. It’s a great film! Damn fine, in my book.

Turns out I’m not such a precious SW fan after all (though I did suffer my way through Crystal Star many years ago - it does tend to rattle one’s purist outlook of what a random EU story should be).
What's not to understand? The exact same lead cast (with the wonderful addition of Kelly Marie Tran) is starring in a movie that is divisive. One guy wrote the script and directed it. Where do you think the fault lies? Am I flaming the shit out of Adam Driver or Daisy Ridley? Nope! #rianjohnsonsux

We can certainly just chalk it up to differences in opinion -- but ultimately money is money. So ignore the "hardcore Star Wars fanboys" if you want but right now even the General Audiences seem to be watching it once and staying home.


“Star Wars” Box Office Decline? “Last Jedi” First Tuesday Receipts Are 42% Off from “The Force Awakens” (http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/19/star-wars-box-office-trouble-last-jedi-first-monday-receipts-are-half-as-much-as-the-force-awakens)


There’s a feeling that “Jedi” is soft at the box office. I don’t know why. It’s just as good if not better.
:lol:

When Wednesday's numbers are released, for better or worse I will post them here. :up:

[Cam]

I sense much conflict in him.

:lol:

[JoshInKC]

Turns out I’m not such a precious SW fan after all (though I did suffer my way through Crystal Star many years ago - it does tend to rattle one’s purist outlook of what a random EU story should be).

Oooof. That one was really rough. Almost put me off of SW books entirely.

[novicius]

TLJ nets $17m domestic on Wednesday, tracking 23% behind TFA. (https://deadline.com/2017/12/last-jedi-dwayne-johnson-jumanji-zac-efron-greatest-showman-box-office-1202230784/)

By comparison TFA made $38,022,183 on its first Wednesday for an increase of +1.8% from its first Tuesday.

So TFA went up and TLJ continues to track downward from all appearances -- as always, Ross if you have some other data please let me know.


EDIT: $16.9 mil domestic, for accuracy (https://twitter.com/ERCboxoffice/status/943891192042815488).

Jesus-fucking-Christ, the actual reported amount for Wednesday is $16,889,863 (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/?view=1day&sortdate=2017-12-20&order=DESC&p=.htm), a 16.6% drop from Tuesday. Are they sure this time?? :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

If the movie turns out to be well-received and a commercial success then I'm vindicated by my opinion of the movie. In the meantime, the fanboys be frothing.

If the movie tracks downward and doesn't do as well as all of the other vastly overrated movies before it, then I don't really care as I still enjoyed it, AND fanboys still be frothing. Maybe even more as it "destroyed the franchise commercially" too.

Either way, people take it way too seriously, and I win. :D

[novicius]

It's making money, it's just not making "Star Wars franchise" money. :lol:

But I hear you -- promise you'll come back to tell us that over and over again, YW? :D

[Yw-slayer]

Nah, I'm busy, I need to scoot over to the Destiny 2 thread (another franchise featuring magical space wizards) to post about massive outrage over 3 of Coins, Loot Boxes, XP plateauing, etc. etc. :D

[novicius]

:lol: :shocker:

[Kchrpm]

MR2 -
Nice breakdown.

Carlo -
I was fascinated by your interest in Wonder Woman's box office details, and I'm fascinated yet again by your interest here. No positive or negative opinion, just fascination. How many movies do you typically follow this closely?

[novicius]

Not many -- only ones that really pique my interests and then only the ones that deviate from expectations, either bad or good. So I initially was following Thor Ragnarok a little bit in the other thread but it's been steadily overperforming industry predictions so... it got kinda safe and boring. :)

So I will follow the Avengers: Infinity War movie, Black Panther and Star Wars: Solo off the top of my head. Probably add some other ones to that list as 2018 rolls on.

[Rare White Ape]

What's not to understand?

Y’see, I don’t - literally - don’t know where the problem lies with TLJ.

I loved it. I hold SW in as much esteem as I hold The Legend of Zelda, Lego, and I loved it. Every minute of it.

*looks over at shelving crammed with Zelda, SW, Lego and SW Lego crap*

So it feels like there’s an argument going on in the far reaches of the internet that I feel totally disconnected from. It’s probably not helped by the fact that I choose to put very little effort to seek out fanboy opinions on anything these days, so it’s fair to say that I’m largely disengaged from what the prevailing opinion on things should be.

Yeah Snoke was a wasted opportunity, and Finn’s side quest was a bit pointless, but outside of that, this film kicked arse.

I fully agree about Rose, too. She kicked arse (“OMG you’re Finn!” Next minute, ZAP! Hahahahaha!) and Tran is an awesome and adorable human being.

[novicius]

This didn't give you pause, Mick? It should have.

#NotMyLuke (https://twitter.com/DreamsOfDoom/status/942968917915590656)

Vader was an inhuman murderous cyborg who ruled the galaxy with an iron fist for 30 years. Luke tries to redeem him and refuses to kill him.

Old Luke senses a teenager might have dark side tendencies and immediately tries to assassinate him in his sleep. #NotMyLuke

EDIT: D'oh! Excellent point -- my bad, sorry!

[MR2 Fan]

are we just ignoring spoiler tags now? :p

[MR2 Fan]

ooh, I have a BIG question!

Was Luke's story arc already started in The Force Awakens? I mean the scene where he is watching something burning and putting his robotic hand on R2D2 was shown in th e TFA trailers (and was it in a flashback or other scene also)? I mean MAYBE they shot it without context, but maybe they didn't?

[Blerpa]

Y’see, I don’t - literally - don’t know where the problem lies with TLJ.

I loved it. I hold SW in as much esteem as I hold The Legend of Zelda, Lego, and I loved it. Every minute of it.

*looks over at shelving crammed with Zelda, SW, Lego and SW Lego crap*

So it feels like there’s an argument going on in the far reaches of the internet that I feel totally disconnected from. It’s probably not helped by the fact that I choose to put very little effort to seek out fanboy opinions on anything these days, so it’s fair to say that I’m largely disengaged from what the prevailing opinion on things should be.

Yeah Snoke was a wasted opportunity, and Finn’s side quest was a bit pointless, but outside of that, this film kicked arse.

I fully agree about Rose, too. She kicked arse (“OMG you’re Finn!” Next minute, ZAP! Hahahahaha!) and Tran is an awesome and adorable human being.

THIS.
ALL THIS.
I really can't be arsed to waste my time with fanboy nitpicking. And I found the movie great.
Also... why Luke cannot change? Heck I've changed a lot in character in 20 years and I'm not particularly spiritual...
Point is, the original movies are full of stupid errors, continuity blunders, wooden acting, ridiculous events and even many of the premises are childish (You do build a giant planet destroyer machine and yet you leave a convenient stupid "destroy it all" loophole in plain sight, and so on)... and yet we do love them dearly.
I bet, if they would have come out in this age, they would have nitpicked hard by what I call contemporary virtual scavengers, aka franchise rabid fanboys.

[Kchrpm]

Carlo -
I thought that was supposed to be a reflection of just how much darkness and power he saw in Ben. I understand your line of thinking, and I don't have any argument against, but that was my reaction to it. Luke's outlook was my indication of just how corrupt and unredeemable he considered Ben, but I think your opinion is just as valid.

In the end, Luke refused to kill Vader partially because he had the emperor behind him provoking him, making it pretty clear whose side that kill would be helping.

Conversely, Luke only thought of killing Ben for a split second. Unfortunately it was a very bad split second in a very bad place.

MR2 -
That shot of Luke, the burning and R2 was definitely the night that Kylo destroyed the Jedi Academy.

[Rare White Ape]

This didn't give you pause, Mick? It should have.

#NotMyLuke (https://twitter.com/DreamsOfDoom/status/942968917915590656)


EDIT: D'oh! Excellent point -- my bad, sorry!

Why would that give me pause? It’s part of a deep and complex storyline, and has no bearing on whether or not I enjoyed the film.

[Kchrpm]

In thinking about the original trilogy:

I wasn't around when they came out, so I wonder how many people complained when Emperor Palpatine's origin and rise to power was never questioned or explained.

I wonder how many people complained when Darth Vader, who had shown zero compassion or humanity outside of rage and a thirst for power, decided to become good at the very end.

I wonder how many people complained that we were never given a single hint about who Luke & Leia's mother was, and no character ever seemed to question it or care about it.

[novicius]

Why would that give me pause? It’s part of a deep and complex storyline, and has no bearing on whether or not I enjoyed the film.
Ok then your concept of the character differs from mine (and Mark Hamill's for that matter). So... agree to disagree?

I mean c'mon, the movie is made. You will be able to buy it in a few months. It's all good, it's part of the lore moving forward. :up:

We're just tracking the fallout and talking nerdstuff at this point. :)

[Yw-slayer]

I actually fully empathise with why Luke thought about it. I agree with blerpa. Fanboys just be complaining about stuff not fitting their worldview, most likely because they don't have much real-world experience from, you know, life and stuff.

[Rare White Ape]

Ok then your concept of the character differs from mine (and Mark Hamill's for that matter). So... agree to disagree?

I dunno. What are we disagreeing with?

Also, it’s been a week. Can we go full spoiler now? Pretty please?

[Freude am Fahren]

Let's not forget that Luke did change his mind and wasn't going to go through with it.

(I tried to make that vague enough to avoid spoilers/tags)

[Rare White Ape]

If we can both spoil and not spoil it, let’s refer to it as The Potential Shart.

When he nearly sharted, he reconsidered, realised what he was about to get himself into, then stopped. The sullen, deathly look in his eyes spoke of the fleeting dally with the Dark Side.

It turned into an unavoidably runny shit anyway, and the rest is history.

[novicius]

Well said! :lol: :up:

::

'Last Jedi' Grosses Are Collapsing With The Worst Daily Holds Of All 9 Star Wars Movies (https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/22/last-jedi-daily-grosses-are-swiftly-collapsing-the-worst-holds-of-all-9-star-wars-movies/2/#2bdcb1c93277)


I wanted to avoid cluttering up the chart, but I could have added all five of the other previous Star Wars live action movies and the image would remain the same: The Last Jedi is the rock-bottom, worst-holding movie of the entire 9-film franchise.

Even Attack of the Clones looks like a champ in comparison.
Still standing behind Rian Johnson, are we?

Coruscant, Tatooine, Dagobah, oh yeah we're all flying back home to safety in Ep. 9, kids! :lol:

::


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v2PV52WNLY

For the lulz!

::

Also-also, keep in mind that Solo: A Star Wars Story (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=untitledhansolostarwarsanthologyfilm.htm) drops this coming May 25, 2018. So I'm ready to take my lumps if that flick tanks! ;) :up:

[Freude am Fahren]

A lot of that 'meeting' was probably similar to the Episode IV meeting (the weird stuff, not the cannon stuff).

I also figured Kylo was probably lying to Rey.

But yeah, that video pretty much sums up all the low points. When you look at it like that. Yeah, doesn't seem so good.

:lol: Force DM's

[Kchrpm]

It's strange seeing so many people, Mark Hamill included, saying that a Jedi would never give up and go into seclusion. Isn't that exactly what Yoda did, the Jedi that Luke spent the most amount of time with?

[MR2 Fan]

Obi Wan did too

[Freude am Fahren]

Also, that's not new, it was from TFA.

[novicius]

Carlo -
I thought that was supposed to be a reflection of just how much darkness and power he saw in Ben. I understand your line of thinking, and I don't have any argument against, but that was my reaction to it. Luke's outlook was my indication of just how corrupt and unredeemable he considered Ben, but I think your opinion is just as valid.

In the end, Luke refused to kill Vader partially because he had the emperor behind him provoking him, making it pretty clear whose side that kill would be helping.

Conversely, Luke only thought of killing Ben for a split second. Unfortunately it was a very bad split second in a very bad place.
Yep they made it, they sold it -- they might as well embrace it in Ep IX. :up:

::

Thursday provided a positive bounce up for TLJ -- $17.9 milly. :up: But TFA made $27.4 mil on the same day for comparison.

This weekend will be a bit shorter with Christmas Eve on Sunday so all movies will have a bit subdued totals. Probably won't get back to normalcy until after New Year's Day.

[MR2 Fan]

Star Wars fans be like:

Episode VIII was great except for the Force and Casino stuff

Episode VII was great except for being too much like Episode IV

The prequels were terrible

The original trilogy was great except for the remakes

Return of the Jedi was great except for the Ewoks stuff

...etc.

[Blerpa]

In thinking about the original trilogy:

I wasn't around when they came out, so I wonder how many people complained when Emperor Palpatine's origin and rise to power was never questioned or explained.

I wonder how many people complained when Darth Vader, who had shown zero compassion or humanity outside of rage and a thirst for power, decided to become good at the very end.

I wonder how many people complained that we were never given a single hint about who Luke & Leia's mother was, and no character ever seemed to question it or care about it.

No one.
It's a contemporary thing to whine about everything and to overanalyze movies and tv series.
Look the shit we had with Lost and Westworld... blah.

[Kchrpm]

Someone pointed something out that I hadn't thought of RE: the controversial Leia scene.
We see Leia "flying", but isn't she just pulling herself in a vacuum towards the ship? It's nearly the same as seeing Rey or anyone else pull a small/light object towards them on the ground, just that Leia moves instead of the ship (or realistic physics would say they're both moving, just that Leia's moving far more to keep the same F=m*a between them).

[Freude am Fahren]

That's how I saw Leia scene. I never thought she was really Mary Poppinsing it and "flying". Despite the uncanny resemblance.

Though technically, 'flying' should be possible, and not that difficult for someone like a Skywalker (maybe that name.....). Afterall, like you say F=ma. Newton's third law and all. Obviously a lightsaber has m way less than a human, so it moves alone. But if you want to apply that same force to a planet, you'd move instead. Then again, Vader throws dudes around without having to anchor himself,
so I think Newtonian physics are kinda moot.

[Kchrpm]

Someone took a look at the fan reaction to Empire Strikes Back using fan letters to a sci-fi magazine, Starlog, whose contents are still archived online.

http://www.acriticalhit.com/fans-react-empire-strikes-back-1980/

Some complaints, some confusion, some theorizing.

[Blerpa]

I understand all the reasoning behind that, FaF, but, as I already said, let's overanalyze this... it's just space magic. That's that.

[Leon]

Someone took a look at the fan reaction to Empire Strikes Back using fan letters to a sci-fi magazine, Starlog, whose contents are still archived online.

http://www.acriticalhit.com/fans-react-empire-strikes-back-1980/

Some complaints, some confusion, some theorizing.

Thank you for that link, that was a good read.

Especially the people encouraging unwittingly, Leia + Luke twincest.

[Yw-slayer]

Great stuff. Shows that fanboys will always be fanboys.

[sandydandy]

Finally saw it, it was ok at best.

[Blerpa]

Great stuff. Shows that fanboys will always be fanboys.

Totally. Pretty classical, I may say. In the 30s people in hollywood and cinema enthusiasts did complain because there were too many remakes and sequels of old movies. In the 1930s!

[novicius]

:popcorn:

[sandydandy]

Now that I’ve had time to reflect on it, I can say I hated it. It was shit. :down:

Not really a fanboy, but why mess up a good thing? Why take new fresh and exciting story arcs set up TFA and just take a dump all over them? There was no payoff in this film. I wonder what George Lucas thinks.

Looking forward to Avengers: Infinity War. Don’t think I’m going to get excited about Star Wars ever again.

[Yw-slayer]

My response: I don't think there was dumping, and anyway, even if there was, why not? A++ Would Watch Again. :D

(OK, more like B++ or A- actually, mainly due to the scene which was being debated above)

[Jason]

It's kind of funny that people who didn't love the movie are being labeled "fanboys". 2017 truly is a backwards year :lol:

[The359]

I saw it today for the first time. It was okay, I need time to reflect on it. A few good moments, but several really weird ones.

[Yw-slayer]

It's kind of funny that people who didn't love the movie are being labeled "fanboys". 2017 truly is a backwards year :lol:

But a lot of them are! Too much invested in the (or rather, "their") lore and backstory, and a desire to stay nice, warm, and comfortable in the womb. They should get over it. It's a fantasy series about space wizards fighting with laser swords, where all sorts of random stuff can happen, and where technology hasn't apparently advanced for thousands of years. :lol:

It's actually not too dissimilar from Trekkies (who are Trek fanboys) bitching about stuff. There's a documentary on Netflix called Chaos on the Bridge, which I admittedly haven't had time to watch, about the pitchforks etc. pulled out during the creation of TNG.

[Freude am Fahren]

That reminds me, I think "laser swords" was my favorite part :lol:

[The359]

I actually contemplated walking out with the whole "Can you hear me?" bit at the beginning...

[sandydandy]

I actually contemplated walking out with the whole "Can you hear me?" bit at the beginning... I remember rolling my eyes at that part. Didn’t think of walking out, but did start to have a bad feeling about what was in store for the rest of the film.

[drew]

They could have knocked back the tongue-in-cheek a bit.

I've always thought if they'd do Star Wars in the seriousness of say, Aliens, it (whichever episode) could possibly be the best sci-fi of all time. But they continue to put in groan and hyuck humor for the sake of doing so. I wanted to personally fly to, and murder, everyone responsible for Jar-Jar. From Lucas, to the fucking asshole that provided its conceptual art. Like, a garden rake up their ass and you "churn butter" until their eyes glazed over after the sweet release of death.

That being said, the newest installments are nowhere near that homicidal level of disdain, but for fuck's sake...


Oh, and, fuck Jar-Jar.

[Alan P]

Now that I’ve had time to reflect on it, I can say I hated it. It was shit. :down:

Not really a fanboy, but why mess up a good thing? Why take new fresh and exciting story arcs set up TFA and just take a dump all over them? There was no payoff in this film. I wonder what George Lucas thinks.

Looking forward to Avengers: Infinity War. Don’t think I’m going to get excited about Star Wars ever again.

Black Panther first though. I can't wait for the inevitable racist backlash complaints that there aren't enough white people in it for some people to be happy.

Regarding TLJ, I enjoyed it, although it was rather different than a 'normal' Star Wars movie. Some humour which, while I found funny and laughed (as did most of the audience) it just seemed a little out of place at times. Sure there have been a funny moment or two in previous films, this one had five or six. Some parts could really have been skipped or edited out and there were a few unusual decisions by most of the characters as well. A decent, enjoyable movie, but I can see why there's so much hate for it, because it was SO different.

[Rare White Ape]

I liked the porgs. You could say that I am a porg fanboy.

Though, I reckon I’d die with laughter if a gungan made an appearance in Ep 9.

[Alan P]

I liked the porgs. You could say that I am a porg fanboy.

Though, I reckon I’d die with laughter if a gungan made an appearance in Ep 9.

The island where they filmed is off the coast of Ireland and it's a Puffin sanctuary and they're protected by law so they couldn't interfere with them. It was easier to CGI over them than remove them, hence Porgs are about the size of a Puffin.

[Jason]

I was totally ok with Porgs. That wasn't the humor that annoyed me, personally. Star Wars has always had side characters like that of some sort.

[Yw-slayer]

People love Christmas but hate porgs. The world works in mysterious ways. :lol:

[Blerpa]

I love porgs. I would be ok with a Porg Jedi.

[Leon]

Drugs are bad mmmmkay?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRwmtpr79qE

Kevin Smith reviewing the movie, and trying not to offend Rian (who he says he knows / has talked to).

[MR2 Fan]

I can't wait until The Last Jedi comes out for download, blu-ray whatever so we'll see people making their own "special" versions like they've done with the prequels and de-specialized versions of the original trilogy.

[sandydandy]

They could have knocked back the tongue-in-cheek a bit.

I've always thought if they'd do Star Wars in the seriousness of say, Aliens, it (whichever episode) could possibly be the best sci-fi of all time. But they continue to put in groan and hyuck humor for the sake of doing so. I wanted to personally fly to, and murder, everyone responsible for Jar-Jar. From Lucas, to the fucking asshole that provided its conceptual art. Like, a garden rake up their ass and you "churn butter" until their eyes glazed over after the sweet release of death.

That being said, the newest installments are nowhere near that homicidal level of disdain, but for fuck's sake...


Oh, and, fuck Jar-Jar.

If I could say something to Rian Johnson, I would quote you, (from when you went off on George Lucas prior to the release of the ‘Revenge of the Sith’)

“Fuck you. Square in the ass”.

Yes, my memory is that sharp.

[Yw-slayer]

Rian Johnson for KBE!!

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/mark-hamill-regrets-criticizing-last-jedi-version-luke-skywalker-1070418

Luke admits he was wrong. Suck on that, fanboys!!! :lol:

[Leon]

You mean Mark Hamill the actor suddenly becomes diplomatic, because career goals?

Refer : K Heigl's book on how to torpedo your career by saying bad things about films you are starring in.

[novicius]

In this case Mark was probably just presented with grounds for damages unless he apologized. His career is already successfully completed so what damage to future opportunities could they cause?

With TLJ's box office falling grossly short of Disney's the 1.7+ billion USD expectations (800+ million USD Domestic), Kathleen Kennedy is circling the wagons and tying up loose ends.

I'd bet the "deal" Disney forced on cinema chains for showing TLJ is dead going forward (higher cut of profits and 4 weeks in the biggest theaters). Will be interesting to read about those negotiations for Ep 9.

I'm just thankful J.J. is directing Ep 9. :)

[Yw-slayer]

So you’re saying Luke sold out. Even better! :lol:

[Leon]

I don't think I have enough crayons and paper to participate in this thread any further.

[novicius]

Further proof Hamill got his proverbial knuckles rapped (https://twitter.com/Variety/status/874340037067800576):


I got in trouble because I was quoted as saying to Rian that "I fundamentally disagree with everything you decided about Luke", and it was inartfully phrased.
So he was literally forced to post that corporate apology. #shrug

Weekend 3 is coming up and TLJ is in a desperate race to outgross Rogue One right now -- who gonna win?? :lol:

::

In other news, Disney is laying the groundwork to Solo: A Star Wars Story completely bombing at release (http://www.screengeek.net/2017/12/24/disney-expects-solo-a-star-wars-story-to-bomb/).


Disney is bracing themselves for the Han Solo movie to bomb. They were worried about it before all The Last Jedi controversy, but now they’re essentially writing Solo off. The lead actor, Alden Ehrenreich, can’t act, and they had a dialogue coach on hand for all of his scenes. On top of that, the script is unworkable. It’s going to be a car crash.
Oh well... still, I'm stupidly hopeful. :D

I just can't get my head around Donald Glover as Young Lando NOT being awesome (unless he's been cut down to a cameo and even then...). :up: :up:

Also, Ron Howard -- I just can't bet against him, guy knows how to film. I'm in until the end credits roll. :up:

[Blerpa]

Ron Howard? That piss poor rhetoric-laden film maker? Oh dear. :rolleyes:

[novicius]

Shit, if Blerpa doesn't like him then I'm in 200%! :lol: :up:

[sandydandy]

George Lucas said this movie was “beautifully made”. I can agree with that. The visuals were outstanding. That’s about it.

[MR2 Fan]

I'm still on the fence about the whole thing...I can truly understand both sides of the situation and people's thoughts on the story.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So diplamtic

[MR2 Fan]

and something else that got retracted a bit


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg7-H6xYmZY

[Rare White Ape]

Ron Howard? That piss poor rhetoric-laden film maker? Oh dear. :rolleyes:

Plus he didn’t actually ‘make’ the Solo film. He was brought in just as principal photography was wrapping.

[novicius]

Howard has reshot a lot more than originally planned. (http://www.slashfilm.com/solo-reshoots-ron-howard/)

It's his movie now, make no mistake.

[Freude am Fahren]

I agree with a lot of what Kevin Smith said. Except Laser Sword. I like that line. Maybe because I didn't know about the toys.

As far as Hammil vs. Johnson thing, I don't get it. I'll say it again, Luke's storyline for the first two acts was already determined by JJ and TFA. Maybe he didn't like the way it ended?

[Yw-slayer]

http://www.vulture.com/2017/12/why-star-wars-the-last-jedi-isnt-a-box-office-failure.html

[MR2 Fan]

Am I the only one who would like to see a Guardians of the Galaxy/Star Wars crossover film?

I mean I guess they are a pretty similar in ways, Rocket Raccoon is basically Han Solo, Groot is like Chewbacca, Starlord is a mix of Han Solo and Luke Skywalker. Still, I think them encountering each other would be interesting

[Rare White Ape]

And The Collector is just like DJ!

[MR2 Fan]

:lol:

[Yw-slayer]

You probably are. I suspect Marvel are gearing up the next story arc to culminate in Avengers v X-Men though.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/12/29/16830912/star-wars-last-jedi-prequels-jedi-order-evil

Great article.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting.

Maybe I'm too force sensitive, but I can't help feeling they're copying the Bible. Anakin represent the Old Testament with family lineage... that ends to pave way for the New Testament where DNA no longer matters. Wonder if Rey is chosen to be Mary who gives birth to a baby Jesus like savior or perhaps she is Jesus herself?

But then why do we need Kylo Ren? Just to let Harrison Ford off the hook for playing a character that he hates? Heck, why do we need Fin? Wonder if JJ will properly explain everything in the last film..., but I suspect in the end we will all be Lost!

[Rare White Ape]

We haven’t had a good one of these since 1994 so why not?


https://youtu.be/isKoz-QozDs

[Yw-slayer]

I am enjoying the Marvel comics that I can read on Marvel Unlimited, particularly the Darth Maul and Darth Vader books.

[novicius]

The drums are getting louder... :) #jumanji

[IMOA]

As a non star wars nerd fanboy obsessive an all that stuff I have to say that the biggest issue I had with the movie was that it was, well, just a bit boring. Too long with a plot that bounced about everywhere without finding a groove. The rouge one movie last year was a properly entertaining movie but last jedi, well, I was kinda dozing off.

[novicius]

Agreed. :up:

::

Box Office: ‘Star Wars: The Last Jedi’ Holds Off ‘Jumanji’ on New Year’s Weekend (http://variety.com/2018/film/news/box-office-star-wars-the-last-jedi-holds-off-jumanji-on-new-years-weekend-1202650549/)


Disney and LucasFilm’s “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” retained first place for the four-day New Year’s holiday weekend despite steep competition from Sony’s “Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle.” “Last Jedi” picked up an estimated $68.4 million, bringing its domestic haul to $533.1 million.

Don’t weep for “Jumanji,” however. The fantasy reboot, which finds Johnson, Jack Black, and Kevin Hart transported into a video game world, has outperformed expectations, picking up a lordly $66.5 million over the holiday weekend.
It was close! ;)

[21Kid]

Finally saw it a few days after Xmas. I'm glad I avoided most of this thread and other reactions, thoughts, etc... Although I know there were some pretty strong negative feelings towards it, I enjoyed it.

The only bad parts for me were mostly in the beginning. General Hux's acting was atrocious. And the opening scene where they "dropped" bombs in space? :twitch: With no gravity? :erm: And while the bomber doors were open, she didn't have any trouble breathing, getting sucked out, etc... :| I could see if they showed a force field keeping "space" out. :lol: They do that on the destroyers, former death star, etc... so ships can land. But, I didn't see any hint of that.

[MR2 Fan]

Finally saw it a few days after Xmas. I'm glad I avoided most of this thread and other reactions, thoughts, etc... Although I know there were some pretty strong negative feelings towards it, I enjoyed it.

The only bad parts for me were mostly in the beginning. General Hux's acting was atrocious. And the opening scene where they "dropped" bombs in space? :twitch: With no gravity? :erm: And while the bomber doors were open, she didn't have any trouble breathing, getting sucked out, etc... :| I could see if they showed a force field keeping "space" out. :lol: They do that on the destroyers, former death star, etc... so ships can land. But, I didn't see any hint of that.

Maybe those Dreadnaughts are so big they have their own gravity?

[21Kid]

I thought about that as I posted it... But, nah.

[Rare White Ape]

All your bomb related concerns are addressed within:

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/12/6-star-wars-questions-answered-in-the-last-jedi-visual-dictionary/

[21Kid]

As I complained about Destiny 1, I can't stand stories that require outside explanation. If you need other source material (after the fact) to explain what happened in a scene, it was poorly executed. That doesn't address all of my concerns either. :p
Why doesn't the vacuum of space suck the air out of the ship? etc...

But, thanks for the link. :D:up:

[JoshInKC]

As I complained about Destiny 1, I can't stand stories that require outside explanation. If you need other source material (after the fact) to explain what happened in a scene, it was poorly executed. That doesn't address all of my concerns either. :p
Why doesn't the vacuum of space suck the air out of the ship? etc...

But, thanks for the link. :D:up:
The explanation for all of the above is: Nobody put any real thought into it beyond what will look cool/be easy to shoot. That's why its space opera rather than hard sci-fi. For all intents and purposes, technology=magic; so its not going to be addressed unless there's a specific reason to do so. Do you also find the idea that all of the ships seem to have artificial gravity so people aren't floating inside to require an explanation as well?

Edited to add: The last sentence reads as way more bitchy than I actually feel. I'm not trying to act like you're an idiot, it just came out that way.

[Rare White Ape]

Totally: the idea of a fleet of 1940s-style bombers is much more tense and spectacular than simply launching fast guided ordinance such as proton torpedos from the Mon Cal cruiser at that exact weak point.

[Rare White Ape]

Another question:

Why the fuck does the First Order Dreadnought have such a massive weak point on its hull that can be easily exploited? Haven’t they learned their lesson from the first Death Star?

[Freude am Fahren]

I just assumed from the start that the bombs were accelerated downward on the way out. More like an unguided missile with no need for aerodynamics.

[21Kid]

The explanation for all of the above is: Nobody put any real thought into it beyond what will look cool/be easy to shoot. That's why its space opera rather than hard sci-fi. For all intents and purposes, technology=magic; so its not going to be addressed unless there's a specific reason to do so. Do you also find the idea that all of the ships seem to have artificial gravity so people aren't floating inside to require an explanation as well?

Edited to add: The last sentence reads as way more bitchy than I actually feel. I'm not trying to act like you're an idiot, it just came out that way. No worries. :cool: I'd settle for medium sci-fi. ;)

I guess that part stands out because just about every space movie addresses it. Even later in the movie, the part with Leia. IDK, I would have been fine with it... if they would have showed the bombs passing through a translucent shield or something.

[drew]

Maybe they didn't show giant springs that were on top of the racks, maybe they're magnetically accelerated, it is sci-fi. Maybe the bomber chick is a galactic champion free-diver, maybe she's an alien with a third lung where her uterus should be.

Bear in mind, laser shots come out of guns at what looks like 80mph.

[21Kid]

:lol: Fine I'll shut up.

[novicius]

Don't go against the pro-TLJ brigade, Kid!! The film is perfect! :lol: #beabush

In other news, Box Office: 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Losing Opening-Day Race in China (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/box-office-star-wars-last-jedi-losing-opening-day-race-china-1071810).


The film earned $560,000 (3.65 million RMB) in midnight previews, well behind Star Wars: The Force Awakens' $2.5 million (16 million RMB) previews score — and way behind The Fate of the Furious' record $8.7 million preview total (60 million RMB) in 2017.

Worse still, Friday's early box-office results have The Last Jedi clearly losing to local comedy The Ex-File 3: The Return of the Exes. As of 4:30 pm, Beijing time, The Last Jedi had earned approximately $5 million (33 million RMB) compared to Ex-Files 3's $11.6 million (75 million RMB), according to data from mobile ticketing service Maoyan.

The results came despite The Last Jedi getting substantially more screens — approximately a 35.6 percent share of all Chinese screens compared to Ex-File's 32.3 percent (again, as of 4:30 pm Friday). And adding insult to injury: Ex-File opened in China a full week ago.
Projections I've read are saying a $1.3B USD finish, a full $400 million short of Disney's originally stated prediction.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/how-instant-black-mirror-classic-uss-callister-guts-toxic-fandom-w514853

[novicius]

The difference here being 'Luke Skywalker' was never a toxic character fueled by an offscreen toxic personality. :)

[Yw-slayer]

No, the point is about toxic fanboys. Pay attention, brah. :D

[novicius]

No YW, the point of USS Callister is a story set up against a single character type -- "Captain Kirk" is celebrated in the same way as "James Bond": take charge, kick-ass misogynists.

Whereas the diverse cast of The Force Awakens powered the movie to be the #3 flick of all time. This article is trying to frame TLJ disappointment as being soley a factor of the Alt Right which is inaccurate. :) #HTH

[21Kid]

Just curious... Why do you care so much about how much $ they rake in at the box office? :?

[novicius]

I enjoy roughly tracking box office dollars Kid, that's all.

It's not the first movie I've done this for and it won't be the last. :) #shrug

[Yw-slayer]

No YW, the point of USS Callister is a story set up against a single character type -- "Captain Kirk" is celebrated in the same way as "James Bond": take charge, kick-ass misogynists.

Whereas the diverse cast of The Force Awakens powered the movie to be the #3 flick of all time. This article is trying to frame TLJ disappointment as being soley a factor of the Alt Right which is inaccurate. :) #HTH

I agree with you in that Kirk can be seen as a toxic character type. A bit like the #notmyluke #lukefailure charactertype? :D

But there is more than one way of looking at the episode. It is also about seeking "ownership" of characters and a Universe.

[21Kid]

I enjoy roughly tracking box office dollars Kid, that's all.

It's not the first movie I've done this for and it won't be the last. :) #shrug

I know. That's why I was asking. :D As there have been lots of box office bombs that were really good movies.

Box office $$$ never meant squat to me, that's why I was wondering. Do you use it to see if there will likely be a sequel, if other people like it, if it will get nominations, or just out of your own amusement. (Some of the things I was wondering) Thanks for answering. :)

[novicius]

Eh kinda, just always interested me to read about how the studio heads receive their products I guess. A way to see if they like what they've paid for, in a sense.

I've pretty much always enjoyed reading about how well or poor movies do my whole life. You'd get tidbits of news through magazines like Starlog back in the day. I remember wondering why Disney's The Black Hole never received a sequel in the midst of the Star Wars hoopla at the time, for example. Poor returns, that's why. #shrug

Tho' I will say the earliest movie I can really remember tracking numbers for is Terminator 2 in '91. :lol:

[balki]

So you have a box office success algorithm in your brain and you only watch movies to fine tune the parameters?

[novicius]

LoL yeah and I have a whole shelf full of one-off flicks that I love that weren't deemed worthy of a sequel. :lol: #badtaste

[Rare White Ape]

Why I’m getting from it is that TLJ will be seen as a failure if it only just falls shy of a billion dollars in cinemas.

True first-world problem.

[novicius]

Dude, it's a massive success -- $1.3B from the box office is still Top 10 All-Time.

[balki]

9-figure production budget, 9-figure marketing budget, part of a 10-figure IP acquisition cost, 50-75% theatre and distributors' cuts ...
One billion dollars could have been considered a failure.
There's also shady Hollywood accounting

[Rare White Ape]

Dude, it's a massive success -- $1.3B from the box office is still Top 10 All-Time.

Yeah that much isn't hard to understand, but the language used in a lot of the discussion I've seen paints it as huge failure and loss for Disney, linking it to the unpopular storyline and the white (male) powahh controversy and how Solo is going to bomb.

Meanwhile I'm still scratching my head, like I was in the first week, as to why the film ackchyually objectively sucked.

[novicius]

I just think terms like "flop" or "failure" are too harsh, that's all.

"Disappointing" and maybe even "slightly disappointing" seems more accurate. But there's currently three more SW movies in the pipe: Solo, Ep 9 & the recently greenlit Obi-Wan movie.

Plus Rian Johnson's trilogy after that is still a go, as far as we know. #shrug

[Kchrpm]

I think the terms that will be used are versions of "underperform".

[novicius]

Yep, that's more accurate. :up:

[MR2 Fan]

I like "hubris" and "prior overexpectations"

[novicius]

Week #4, TLJ falls first to third Domestic. (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/)

Rogue One also only did three weeks @ #1.


EDIT: The rout is on in China (https://twitter.com/ChinaBoxOffice/status/950382109423792128?s=09).


THE LAST JEDI earned est. ¥14.5M ($2.2M) on Monday, a 69% drop from Sunday compared to 60% for Rogue One. China’s 4-day total is now ¥190M ($29.3M). All signs pointing to an epic 90%-95% drop this weekend...

[novicius]

Well following TLJ's box office has become pretty boring -- it's fallen behind Rogue One's dailies (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?view=daily&id=roguevforce.htm) for good at the same point in time. So much for that.

Even tho' TLJ posted the 4th best Opening Weekend Worldwide (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/worldwideopenings.htm) of all time, it's going to end up 9th best Worldwide Grosses (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/), beating out Beauty and the Beast and Frozen. Not exactly powerhouse franchises. The MCU still has two (and soon to be three and eventually four) superhero flicks ahead of it. It'll get bumped out of the Top 10 in two years IMO.

Keep in mind that I was originally so amped up for TLJ that I thought it was gonna bust up Avatar (http://gtxforums.net/showthread.php?1297-In-a-galaxy-far-far-away-Star-Wars-omnibus-thread&p=107722&viewfull=1#post107722). :(

[Crazed_Insanity]

No worries. Surely the final episode: The Last Hope will be able to restore everything!

BTW, I think one major element missing is the sexual tensions or unclear love interests between main characters.

2 Episodes in, the only clear relationship is the budding one Fin developed with a brand new character!?!?!? Is there a love triangle between Rey, Finn and Kylo? If so, they're not very compelling anyway.

Missing or hidden love stories is another clear departure from the other trilogies... which probably also contributed to the somewhat lackluster box office.

People enjoy a good love story! So far not so good.

[Jason]

Being in the top 10 world wide gross earnings of all time is somehow disappointing. God I love the internet :lol:

[novicius]

"Disappointing compared to Disney's projections." :rolleyes:

[MR2 Fan]

No worries. Surely the final episode: The Last Hope will be able to restore everything!

BTW, I think one major element missing is the sexual tensions or unclear love interests between main characters.

2 Episodes in, the only clear relationship is the budding one Fin developed with a brand new character!?!?!? Is there a love triangle between Rey, Finn and Kylo? If so, they're not very compelling anyway.

Missing or hidden love stories is another clear departure from the other trilogies... which probably also contributed to the somewhat lackluster box office.

People enjoy a good love story! So far not so good.

No, it's Rey, Finn and Poe

[Crazed_Insanity]

Poe just met Rey.

Rey also probably already had Jedi sex with Kylo. For sure Kylo has the hots for Rey.

[MR2 Fan]

Poe just met Rey.

Rey also probably already had Jedi sex with Kylo. For sure Kylo has the hots for Rey.


No, I mean Finn and Poe, then Finn and Rey

[Rare White Ape]

I wanted to see a bit of Poe and Holdo action. She does alright for an old duck.

[21Kid]

Carlo - Have you seen this? It was on before the previews of the last movie I saw, and I immediately thought of you. :D

https://fantasymovieleague.com/

Compete against friends or a league of movie lovers to win movie tickets, swag, and more
Pick 8 movies each week to fill your virtual theater
As the box office climbs, so do you. It's easy to play, hard to master, and all for free!
:popcorn:

[novicius]

Nice!! :D :up:

I would have lost my ass tho' because based on what I was reading before release, I would have put TLJ as a major overperformer. :(

::

The synopsis for Solo: A Star Wars Story is out (http://www.starwars.com/news/official-synopsis-for-solo-a-star-wars-story-revealed):


Board the Millennium Falcon and journey to a galaxy far, far away in Solo: A Star Wars Story, an all-new adventure with the most beloved scoundrel in the galaxy.

Through a series of daring escapades deep within a dark and dangerous criminal underworld, Han Solo meets his mighty future copilot Chewbacca and encounters the notorious gambler Lando Calrissian, in a journey that will set the course of one of the Star Wars saga’s most unlikely heroes.

[Jason]

I still don't understand this movie happening... I haven't really talked to anyone who's actively looking forward to it.

[novicius]

It was originally approved in 2013 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solo:_A_Star_Wars_Story#Development) to be a part of a "Star Wars Anthology" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars#Anthology_films) series.

Rogue One did $1.2B WW so Disney probably thought these were each going to be surefire moneymakers. Somewhere along the way, Disney execs (and the public?) turned on Solo.

We should be getting our first trailer any day now. :up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

No, I mean Finn and Poe, then Finn and Rey

Everybody just loves Finn? Why is this ex-storm trooper such a hot commodity? Not explained very well...

I'd also like a better explanation of his original defection. How did the Force wake him up and for what? 2 episodes in, I'm still confused about Finn.

[Jason]

It was originally approved in 2013 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solo:_A_Star_Wars_Story#Development) to be a part of a "Star Wars Anthology" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars#Anthology_films) series.

Rogue One did $1.2B WW so Disney probably thought these were each going to be surefire moneymakers. Somewhere along the way, Disney execs (and the public?) turned on Solo.

We should be getting our first trailer any day now. :up:

Personally I'd much rather see an Obi Wan movie, but what do I know.

[Rare White Ape]

There’s nothing to say about Obi Wan; he goes into exile on Tattooine to keep watch over Luke Skywalker. And… that’s basically it. Except for the part where he is visited by an old adversary, which has already been covered in SW Rebels.

[21Kid]

(and the public?) turned on Solo Probably when he died. :(

[novicius]

A damning quote from TheRinger.com (https://www.theringer.com/movies/2018/1/17/16900890/solo-star-wars-story-trailer-delay-worry).


More concerning, to be sure, is the lack of Solo footage. The past two Star Wars movies, Rogue One and The Last Jedi, released teaser trailers eight months prior to their respective releases, and The Force Awakens released its first teaser trailer a full year ahead of time. Less than five months away from Solo, we still haven’t seen a thing.
:eek:

[MR2 Fan]

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aGj9dj6_700b.jpg

[Blerpa]

I'd also like a better explanation of his original defection. How did the Force wake him up and for what?

It just did. Why do you need more explanation? I swear, this is the plague of contemporary storytelling...

[Rare White Ape]

There’s a book detailing Finn, Poe, and Rey’s activities that’s set almost immediately prior to TFA. It’s called Before The Awakening. It’ll give an insight into each character’s mindset that leads directly into the events of Episode 7.

[novicius]

Cool fan poster for Ep 9:

https://i.redd.it/ywcxo76leta01.jpg

[novicius]

I'm a simple man, I see SW jokes, I post 'em. :lol: :up:

https://i.redd.it/u0jmmi48sna01.jpg

[Jason]

That scene was pure cringe. :up:

Though, I'm also glad he didn't die, because I like him.

[novicius]

I like Finn too -- he's been criminally wasted so far. Hopefully he comes into his own in Ep 9. :up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

It just did. Why do you need more explanation? I swear, this is the plague of contemporary storytelling...

I don't really NEED more detailed information regarding why..., it's just that Finn so far seemed almost useless.

Rey could very well get off that stupid planet by herself with BB8 and meet Han Solo and blah blah blah...

In this latest episode, whether if Finn sacrificed himself or not, it almost doesn't matter either.

Maybe that's Finn... he's just the catalyst that gets the reactions going, but not really the main star? Without such catalyst, the main character would just remain dormant?

He's a main and quite a likable character, but so far his existence seemed pretty unimportant... other than everybody suppose to just love him? Maybe even Poe?!?!? There must've been gazillion stormtroopers. It'd be nice to know what makes Finn so different and special.

It's just not compelling storytelling thus far or perhaps I missed something... Hope the final episode won't let Finn down.

Anyway, I can sort of understand why TLJ failed miserably in China. They never had the original trilogy... TLJ is just not a very 'compelling' stand alone movie. Very easy to leave the theater thinking what did I just watch?

Also as a non-stand-alone, it also adds little to the entire franchise. Never mind previous episode's build up of Finn and Rey or even Snoke end up falling flat in this movie... major disappointment would the Luke's involvement in all this. He could save a father he doesn't really know, but can't save a nephew that he actually raised? Even if Kylo Ren is just beyond saving, why can't Luke just have a real battle like OB1 did with Vader? What is the purpose of a holographic battle?

It's a long ass movie and they showed a lot of needless stuffs that led to no where. That's the main problem I have with it.

Otherwise, yeah, it's beautifully shot.

[novicius]

TLJ has it's first sub-$1M USD day (https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-chart/daily/2018/01/17). China performance is utterly dismal too ($39 million USD to date). Quicker to six figures than both TFA & Rogue One.

Now projections for Solo opening weekend are all over the place, like $60 to $160 million -- a $100 million range? Seriously? :lol:

[novicius]

I still don't understand this movie happening... I haven't really talked to anyone who's actively looking forward to it.
Well...

...I've just read a blurb that Boba Fett might be one of the antagonists. :) #dicktwinge

[novicius]

If Episode 9 started with Rey handing Luke his lightsaber I would absolutely lose it lol
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Kchrpm]

https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954398041598918656

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT60BnyUQAEcStd.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT60GZPU8AEZUfe.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT60JRZVoAAolO0.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT60Nj1U0AAD_xW.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT60STnVMAA4gCF.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

Is it telling that, after seeing only the first image, I thought the most significant thing was the Wes Anderson collection?

[Alan P]

https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954398041598918656

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT60BnyUQAEcStd.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT60GZPU8AEZUfe.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT60JRZVoAAolO0.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT60Nj1U0AAD_xW.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT60STnVMAA4gCF.jpg

So pretty much what Obi Wan is supposed to have done in ANH when he made the 'dragon' noises and spooked the Sand people. I'm sure I read somewhere they saw some big bad creature in their minds.

[GB]

The one humorous line I enjoyed:
"Yeah, they really HATE that ship."

[MR2 Fan]

https://io9.gizmodo.com/everything-rian-johnson-has-been-forced-to-explain-abou-1822598181

[novicius]

:popcorn: