2016 F1 Championship

[Rare White Ape]

What Keef said. F1 thread.

And while I'm on the subject: if there was an Indy 500 thread I'd expect to see a result in there, so I'd avoid it.

And this is the F1 thread, which doesn't even contain a result about the F1.

Aaaaaaand: check the Nurb 24h thread. I made a comment there but didn't post any result after the race last night.

Do we need to discuss the well-trodden turf of spoiler etiquette again?

#i'mbutthurt

[Freude am Fahren]

Alright, I admit my faux pas. I couldn't hide it right way anyway though, once you quoted it ;)

Manor can still suck it. So can Harianto.

[Random]

Rossi just won the freaking Indy 500. Suck it, Manor!

Sadly, this will likely only be fuel for the Indy haters: "so a guy that wasn't good enough to be on the slowest F1 team just won Indy? Ho-hum..."

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cjp4X2rWkAAprOn.jpg:large

Yes. Yes he does (https://twitter.com/Stuart_Dent/status/737033841660067840)

[Freude am Fahren]

I saw him during the race, but they let him near the podium?? NBC's coverage didn't include the post race.

I've been back and forth on Lewis, but I think I'm officially against him if it means more of this.

[FaultyMario]

Hamilton is clearly confused about his ambassadorial role.

Anyway, there's lots of people raving about what a genius move it was from Hamilton to stay on full wets until it was time for slicks. I disagree, HAM was just lucky that RB botched their pitstop, as the ultra softs were not the compound to be on the last laps. If he had come out on USs behind Ricciardo on SSs, with the stress put on his tyres trying to maintain the pace of the faster Red Bull, he would have been under serious pressure by the next two cars, who were on regular softs.

[overpowered]

So a guy that wasn't good enough to be on the slowest F1 team just won Indy? Ho-hum...

[Drachen596]

Hamilton should just quit F1 and follow what is clearly his dream.


Sleeping with as many people as possible in the music industry.

[Rare White Ape]

Alright, I admit my faux pas.

Ta. :toast::toast:

[Tom Servo]

Did I hear "Congratulations, dawg!"?

[Freude am Fahren]

So a guy that wasn't good didn't have enough money to be on the slowest F1 team just won Indy? Ho-hum...

FTFY

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hamilton is clearly confused about his ambassadorial role.

Anyway, there's lots of people raving about what a genius move it was from Hamilton to stay on full wets until it was time for slicks. I disagree, HAM was just lucky that RB botched their pitstop, as the ultra softs were not the compound to be on the last laps. If he had come out on USs behind Ricciardo on SSs, with the stress put on his tyres trying to maintain the pace of the faster Red Bull, he would have been under serious pressure by the next two cars, who were on regular softs.

Who knows. Mercedes' tire choice was enough to make RB doubt their tire strategy... and that last min change ended up botched their stop!

RB really should stop trying to play follow the competitor game and just let their drivers drive.

I honestly feel bad for Ricciardo, but I also feel that he's a bit too whiney. Maybe Austrailians and RB just don't mix very well.

[Reynard]

That RB pit stop was the proverbial watching an accident in slow motion for me. I kept blinking to make sure what I was seeing was really happening. ;)

In regards to that other race... with about 10 laps to go I'm looking at the leaderboard and elbow my friend sitting next to me and say, "watch, Rossi is going to win this." Half joking. :o

[Drachen596]

Hell.. Rossi's Indy team didn't have enough money to field the car. They got a loan from Andretti.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ckn1BPKXAAAN2pI.jpg:large

F1 is so boring....😂😂 #F1 #CanadianGp #Alonso (https://twitter.com/f1writers/status/741407629960962048)
Via @diosmilleraus

[FaultyMario]

Setup to be a good race. Don't discard Perez and the two hasses.

[Freude am Fahren]

Haas for points maybe, but without some serious shenanigans, they aren't going to do much. Force Inidas look good though, and in the past have been great on tire wear, especially Perez (haven't noticed this season). I hope Hulk can put together a good race. He never seems to live up to his potential. And don't forget brakes. That's been Mercedes' biggest problem in recent years, and this is one of those tracks, as we've seen.

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, to spice up the midfield. Which, should be enough for an entertaining race.

[Blerpa]

Don't discount Alonso either.

[Godson]

So the Orlando shooting coverage is taking over the f1 race live feed. Frustrating aspect is the crew at NBC has literally had nothing new to say since Obama orated his speech.

Fuck terrorism. Fuck hate. Fuck people who can't handle someone who is different.

[balki]

Did they not end up putting it on NBCSN, MSNBC, CNBC, ... ?
Check the Spanish feed next time; UniMás (formaly TeleFutura) aired it. I believe they air all the races, free (over-the-air aka rabbit ears) and commercial-free.

[Godson]

The local channel was supposed to air it. After waiting for 40 minutes after race start I checked nbcsn and they were airing it instead. The guide schedule didn't say they were going to.

[Godson]

And now the re-air is being shown as golf. Fucking golf. Fuck you KSHB and NBCSN.

I want speedvision back.

[Tom Servo]

Yep, just got golf followed by wrestling (and real wrestling even, not the entertaining stuff!). No re-air listed, so I guess we won't get to see it.

[The359]

Even worse, NBCSN was supposed to show the rain delayed IndyCar race, and so F1 moving to NBCSN meant that IndyCar was shuffled to CNBC.

The television guides would never have been updated in time, the Obama broadcast and NBC movements were last minute changes.

[Tom Servo]

True, but a little irritated that they don't seem to have posted anything to their website or their social media presences, and aren't responding to questions about it, at least on Twitter.

[Tom Servo]

Well, no mention on their Facebook feed either of the change in broadcast, but they did helpfully post who won, so everyone searching for information got the race spoiled.

Someone in the comments says the ticker running across the bottom of the screen during the golf was saying that it'll rebroadcast today, 6/13, at 4PM eastern. Both his and my guides say Indycar at that spot, but I'll try recording it anyway to see what happens.

[Kchrpm]

The IndyCar race was redflagged and postponed until August, so F1 filling the gap makes sense.

[The359]

The IndyCar race was redflagged and postponed until August, so F1 filling the gap makes sense.

That happened after the F1 race had already started.

[Freude am Fahren]

True, but a little irritated that they don't seem to have posted anything to their website or their social media presences, and aren't responding to questions about it, at least on Twitter.

Follow Leigh Diffey or Will Buxton. They usually post about these things. Diffey replied directly to me on Twitter around 12:30 about early changes.

https://twitter.com/leighdiffey/status/742035510181384192

Twitter accounts for NBCSN, Indy Car on NBCSN, and F1 on NBC Sports all tweeted out the additional changes shortly after, with Buxton and Diffey retweeting and replying to people.

And if you have access to NBC Sports app, you can watch it anytime, I believe.

I can't see getting mad at NBC for this, given yesterdays events.

http://stream.nbcsports.com/f1/?pid=22229

You need a participating provider to watch the whole thing I think.

[Tom Servo]

I'd follow them, but then I'd keep getting races spoiled, I'm thinking :)

That said, I checked NBCSN's twitter feed and couldn't find anything.

EDIT: And I'm not at all mad that the broadcast on NBC got pre-empted. But golf on NBCSN? That I can get mad at.

[Kchrpm]

That happened after the F1 race had already started.

I meant for the race replay today.

[Rare White Ape]

So the Orlando shooting coverage is taking over the f1 race live feed. Frustrating aspect is the crew at NBC has literally had nothing new to say since Obama orated his speech.

Fuck terrorism. Fuck hate. Fuck people who can't handle someone who is different.

All this wouldn't have happened if your country could get some gun control up in this bitch.

[Freude am Fahren]

http://sniffpetrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Smallad160613.jpg

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClUQin_UoAA6wBg.jpg:large

@AxisOfOversteer (https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/744519521927471105)The enthusiasm is palpable in Baku... #EuropeanGP

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClUcBc4WMAAA6w4.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClUcBc6WEAEQWPO.jpg:large

@OfficialMinis (https://twitter.com/OfficialMinis/status/744532131196592128): Lewis Hamilton right now

[Freude am Fahren]

:lol: Those rules are so stupid. To people who defend them because of "the good old times when drivers drove," Those drivers only had to pay attention to a couple of temperature and pressure gauges/lights. These cars probably have more computing power than the computers used to design cars 20 years ago.

[Rare White Ape]

Oh shoot. Let me guess:

*car breaks down*
"What do I do?"
"Sorry Lewis, not allowed to tell you."

[FaultyMario]

It did kinda come back to bite him in the ass... On the build up to the GP he had said that he doesn't use the simulator much because it's "like a videogame" (whereas people like Alonso are eager to test what's early up in design stages), and then he told the press other drivers "complain too much" about new tracks, when it was clear that the Baku layout left much to be desired (with Raikonnen's penalty a fine example of the mess that was the pit entry), moreover he didn't do a track walk and then had a lousy qualifying. Lauda also said that Rosberg was quick to solve the same issue that plagued Hamilton, so yeah between not doing enough simulator work to learn everything he could about the PU controls and his attitude towards the new track it was a bit of karma.

[XHawkeye]

Interesting factoid via @SkySportF1HD: Which driver scored the most points since Euro phase of championship?

Since Barcelona : 63 points Vettel, 60 Hamilton, 41 Rosberg

@AxisOfOversteer (https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/744587179532312576)

[Tom Servo]

Best part.

https://streamable.com/d6f2

[balki]

did anyone catch what Kimi said towards the end? sounded like it could have been "yes, yes, yes, i know what i'm doing" caliber, but the broadcast guys talked over him.
Think it was him asking for something, then told they can't answer that. He replied with something like 'yes you can, just say or no'.

[Freude am Fahren]

I think he also had a setting issue with his car like Lewis.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Maybe rather than a rule that makes radio communications simple, but they also need rules to make the cockpit simple.

Just a wheel, shifter, gas and brake (clutch)pedal... at most a button for passing and another for pit speed limit and that's it.

You want to save fuel, don't pedal to the metal. All those buttons and switches on the steering is just too much. Earlier collision between Rosberg and Hamilton proves it.

Now, every race might have a different factory preset? That's crazy!

If an F1 driver is slow on track, it really should be because the car is damaged or the driver is physically illed/tired..., not because he is on a wrong setting!

But anyway, I guess in a way this is good. Otherwise Mercedes would be dominating this season again. Mercedes' stupid screw ups do give other teams some chances.

But from safety point of view, this is not good.

[drew]

Oh shoot. Let me guess:

*car breaks down*
"What do I do?"
"Sorry Lewis, not allowed to tell you."


Was it Lewis, or Kimi that said "well, I'm just going to start flipping buttons and see what happens"?

Only to get the response from the engineer: "uh...we wouldn't advise that"

I laughed.

[Freude am Fahren]

Lewis. That was great. Would have been even better if "We wouldn't advise that" got a penalty :lol:

[Rare White Ape]

Now, every race might have a different factory preset? That's crazy!

That's not entirely new. Back in the 2-stroke days the MotoGP teams would bring something like 40 different sets of exhaust pipes to a race just for different purposes to help tune the motor to suit. Then they settled on a tune for the race and that was that. A factory preset for 22 laps. All the rest was controlled via the right wrist.

But I haven't mentioned the different barrels, the pistons (oh, the pistons - pop a set of new ones in and give it a few laps to run-in) the valves, all the stuff required to rebuild a nice and simple 2-stroke motor about 20 times a weekend for different setups.

And that was just one weekend. At the next round, they'd have another whole kit to run for a different track layout.

Nowadays they do all that via switches on the dashboard, because they have to build motors that last all season. Among those you might get a slow-track motor for Monaco and Hungary, and a fast-track motor for Spa and Monza.

[balki]

Found this pitstop article (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34236.html) interesting
£60k a jack (for Williams, not one of the big teams) and a 16 page report on two (normal?) stops

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmRU-IzVMAAZSb_.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmRKw8JVIAAtUA4.jpg:large

[FaultyMario]

That was an interesting ending.

[Alan P]

Great race. And Rosberg surely must be beginning to skate on thin ice with Mercedes, despite their (slightly perceived, I think anyway) bias towards him and their seeming undercurrent of desire for a German WDC. If he keeps running into Lewis like this he could be out on his ear. Mercedes certainly rate Wehrlein and could conceivably replace Rosberg with him should they be so inclined.

[Freude am Fahren]

Interesting to hear Lewis say on the podium that Nico may have had a brake problem. I'm not so sure about that, but either Lewis is being diplomatic, or he just can't believe Nico would make such a move.

edit: After hearing Nico's comments, brake problem or not, the move was completely on purpose. He said it was his corner, he was on the inside so it was his corner, and Lewis turned in on him. :lol:

[Kchrpm]

I saw the winning result while watching the Watkins Glen race, but decided to watch anyway. What a last lap!

[IMOA]

Really enjoyable race, held my interest the whole way through. Rosberg is delusional, someone needs sit down and have a chat with him before Mercedes start to think twice about him. Can anyone remember teammates who have had so many accidents? Really good to see McLaren up there at a hp track, Button had a sensational drive imo. Excellant drive from Max as well, trhere was a moment when I thought he could win it. Then there was another moment 10 laps later when I thought he had another shot at it :) But all up a great race which didn't need outside events to keep it interesting

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmdEsmJWYAUYzkb.jpg:large

Damn Hamilton nearly drove him off the track! (https://twitter.com/novus_discipula/status/749643403416203265)

[Freude am Fahren]

:lol: I saw that earlier too, on either Tiff's, or Damon Hill's twitter.

[Tom Servo]

Thanks to the folks that helped me find a copy of the race online after my Tivo neglected to record it. (Admittedly, it was my fault, the Tivo did exactly what I asked it to do). Is Rosberg in any way claiming that he was wronged there?

[Tom Servo]

Oh man...vintage Kimi - the interviewer trying to figure out if she should interrupt or thank him and giving up on both.

[drew]

Yep. I only watched the interviews because he was a part of it. :up:

I still stand by having him on every podium, regardless if he finished 1-3, or got twatted in the first turn, and gives a synopsis of the race through his eyes.

Fuck you Bernie.

[FaultyMario]

This question is directed to Cuda...

Have you raced on all configurations of Silverstone? If so, is aerodynamic performance really that important around the big bends? Are the effects of dirty air that much more amplified here?

[FaultyMario]

Thanks to the folks that helped me find a copy of the race online after my Tivo neglected to record it. (Admittedly, it was my fault, the Tivo did exactly what I asked it to do). Is Rosberg in any way claiming that he was wronged there?

No but he hasn't admitted to running Lewis of track, either.

I guess it was hard for him to accept that with so little distance left his team mate would take advantage of his mechanical woes. To Lewis, Rosberg made a mistake going in to T1, to the team and to Rosberg, he had to adapt to failing brakes and rub off speed abnormally.

Was he in the right to try to take the turn the way he did? Would anyone else in guys position try it?

[drew]

Running into another car is definitely one way to scrub off speed.

[FaultyMario]

Musing...

I believe Haas to be a mid field team. They've had some bad weekends but i would think they're on a fight with STR and FI, they're obviously paying for their inexperience, but... with the relationship they have with Ferrari, and Ferrari with Sauber... seeing how you couldn't have a worse pairing than Nasr and Ericsson, would developing Ferrucci there pay off for all three teams involved?

[FaultyMario]

Also, i just can't warm up to Jolyon. Whilst Nasr and Ericsson are a couple of twats, they're like fun in a Benny Hill sort of way. Kmag is looking not so hot this year, but there's some entertainment value in his plight driving that dog. Palmer, meh.

[Yobbo NZ]

Is Renault a full factory team,or just in name only?

[Alan P]

As of late last year it's a full factory team but it was all organised so late that other than money and the engine which they've been running since the V6 turbo hybrids came in, there's been little input into the chassis and aerodynamics. This really is a building year for Renault.

[FaultyMario]

No musical chairs this offseason, unless McLaren get rid of JB.


Scuderia Ferrari announces that it has renewed its technical and racing agreement with Kimi Raikkonen.

The driver line-up for the 2017 racing season will still consist of the Finnish driver and Sebastian Vettel.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm1DTp8WAAA3umo.jpg:large

[racerfink]

That look on Lauda's face immediately after qualifying ended...

[drew]

Waiting to see if the FIA rains shit on Rosberg/Mercedes.


If they do, given what the radio conversations with Hamilton were like in the last race, cue conspiracies.

[dodint]

What a dumb fucking race from all around.

Even I'm getting bored with hearing myself complain about F1 so I'm not going to elaborate.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Max's rate of improvement was really quite amazing....

I guess he is really on his way to become the next racing legend! Ricciardo is obviously already proven himself to be fast, and this kid has for the 1st time out qualified and out raced him... Also managed to make nico look bad...

The race was kinda interesting in that respect...

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnAIjA9XgAA9rtd.jpg:large

[FaultyMario]

Whats the point of starting on full wets if they all go for inters the minute Maylander turns the lights off?

[Freude am Fahren]

Right? Hell, I'd rather see a jet dryer out there to take care of the big puddles with a delayed start.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnE3tlOWgAEB1ZU.jpg:large

It will never get old #PlacesAlonsoWouldRatherBe (https://twitter.com/McLaren_Soul/status/752443993032712192)

[FaultyMario]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/XPB_826953_HiRes.jpg

Big fat 2017 tires on 2014-spec Mercedes W05.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnR9XmKWIAAk8Gz.jpg:large

A wild @alo_oficial appears #PokemonGO #PlacesAlonsoWouldRatherBe (https://twitter.com/wtf1couk/status/753364887758376960/photo/1)

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CohWRgeUMAAqx0B.jpg:large

Kimi, team-mates, and whether drivers really run the teams. The latest from Roebuck: http://bit.ly/2aetULZ

[samoht]

So, imagine you are an F1 Team Principal. You've got a big budget from the board, hired the best designers and created an unbeatable car, a sure-fire winner. You managed to hire the greatest driver of the era to drive for you, and now it's just a matter of time until you take the championship.

But before then, a question - who to hire alongside your superstar lead driver? Having a big budget, and the lure of the best car, you naturally hire the second-greatest driver of the day. Now your team will truly be unbeatable - you can almost taste the champagne, and the inevitable career advancement when the board see how you have burnished the name of your company.

However, in reality, it turns out that the second-greatest driver of the day doesn't like to be beaten in identical equipment. He collides with his team-mate. He blocks him in the pits. He brings qualifying to a conveniently-timed premature end. The press are all over it - not talking about the greatness of your company, but about the bad blood between its two most prominent employees. After a particularly spectacular collision, you receive a call from the chairman of the board - not to congratulate you as you hoped, but to ask why you are paying a hundred million dollars to have two men smash your cars into each other.

Through all this, the two prima donnas take points off each other, leading to neither winning the drivers championship. The constructors title is no consolation as your rivals take the glory. Seeing no future at the team, you quit.


A few years later, you again find yourself with a big budget and the best car. This time, you avoid making the same mistake. You carefully hire a journeyman as your second driver, screened for his niceness and willingness to yield in a 50/50 wheel to wheel situation. The season starts well - your prima donna driver is unchallenged, happy, and wins the first three races. Then... disaster! Due to a freak brake failure, he crashes in practice, and breaks his leg. He will be ok to drive... next season. All eyes turn to your carefully chosen nice-guy second driver. To start with it looks ok, the car is so good that he's winning races, keeping a narrow lead in the championship. Then your rivals close the technical gap, he has a few bad races, and loses confidence. Your rivals take both championships, and you resign in disgrace.


The wheel of fortune turns again, and you have another chance to run a team. This time, you know what you need. A driver who is talented and mentally strong enough to win a championship if the situation presents itself, yet at the same time, laid-back enough to race alongside your demanding prima-donna genius lead driver. Your shortlist has only two names. At all costs, you must hire one of either Jenson Button... or Kimi Raikkonen.

[Freude am Fahren]

That's a tough call. For some reason I thought Kimi was a few years younger, but it turns out they are both 36.

[dodint]

The answer is never Jenson Button.

[Rare White Ape]

Raikkonen is slightly more petulant than Button, but a whole lot more fascinating. He gets my vote.

Reading that post, samoht, made me think of the big inter-team rivalries going back to when I was a kid.

I remember Senna and Prost being massive. It seemed like they gave each other a reason to live, and that was to smash the piss out of the other guy.

But who remembers anything about Senna and Berger, or Schuey and Barrichello? Dull, dull, dull.

[Alan P]

Teams and Sponsors love Jenson because he does quite a bit of a Sponsor events and always looks interested and involved. Kimi does very little of that kind of stuff.

[FaultyMario]

2016 is becoming f1's swansong.

What the fuck is wrong with policing and stewarding and punishing?

[Freude am Fahren]

Something is seriously up with that, but the recent decision to say "fuck it" to radio restrictions has me optimistic they can turn some things around.

The current controversy, track limits is so easy to avoid, it's stupid. But yet they keep building tracks that have 10 foot wide cubs behind 5 foot curbs with tarmac behind that, so there's no natural penalty for going wide. Not that easy to fix, because it would require tracks that already pay huge sums of money just to be on the calendar to spend even more, but they should be designed like that in the first place. No curb should be wider than the car. Behind all curbs should be grass/turf/dirt. Behind that a few feet should be a road surface to allow mistakes to not cause DNF's.

[Kchrpm]

What was the original reason for switching to wider paved curbs? Safety? Maintenance?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Teams and Sponsors love Jenson because he does quite a bit of a Sponsor events and always looks interested and involved. Kimi does very little of that kind of stuff.

Jenson definitely has an edge over Kimi that way. Otherwise they're definitely both fast on track yet rarely clash with other racers let alone teammates. Do you guys recall any incidences by them that's on purpose which might cause other drivers to flip them a finger or have harsh words with them? I don't, but I also don't have a greatest memory! :p

Anyway, Rosberg clashing with Hamilton is a surprise... I thought he'd be the younger generation Jenson Button...

[Freude am Fahren]

What was the original reason for switching to wider paved curbs? Safety? Maintenance?

I really don't know. Going with paved areas over gravel or grass was safety, with a touch of keeping cars from DNF'ing just from a single spin or something. But why the curbs got the way they are, I'm not sure? Maybe they figured if they had a big bumpy area it would disadvantage a driver from going wide on the new paved areas, but it didn't really help, as the drivers see the curb as part of the track.

I think it may be a Tilke thing, or at least he ran with it.

[Kchrpm]

I have to admit that I enjoy the aesthetic of it in aerial shots in some uses. COTA, for example. Esses (http://www.delmartimes.net/wp-content/blogs.dir/6/files/2013/02/Fast-sweepers-at-the-Circuit-of-the-Americas-Inaugural-F1-USGP.jpg); Long right hander (http://ea80e97cace747c2c244-5483548c70a81fe49af7816b21fff1c8.r64.cf1.rackcdn.c om/Interactive-Pages/world_champions.jpg).

[dodint]

COTA is gaudy af.

[Kchrpm]

Says the guy who wants a stainless steel, mid-engined car from the 80s.

[Freude am Fahren]

:lol: (seriously, I chortled out loud)

That is a good point. Aesthetics play a big part. But taking Turn 1 at Hockenheim or many of the turns at A1 into account, there's clearly more to it.

COTA by the way gets away with it I think because of the design of the curb in some places (and of course the big bumps at the apex). It's actually a good one, in that they are high enough on the backside that if you go over them, you bottom out and lose performance, while not being to severe that you can't use them (like in Austria). That actually is something I overlooked in my previous post. You can go straight from curb to pavement, just have the curb be no wider than the car, and the backside of it a good bit higher than the minimum ground clearance.

(simplified profile of the track would like something like ___|\___/|___ )

COTA and Laguna use those big bumps at the apex to try to penalize cutting, but cutting is rarely a problem, it's overrunning the exits that is problematic. Austria tried to use the same big bump solution on exits, but then you run into the issues of car damage. No guaranteed damage like a wall so they stay away, but risk/reward that they all see as worth it.

[Rare White Ape]

What was the original reason for switching to wider paved curbs? Safety? Maintenance?

In the past: cars would run wide (eg turn 1 at Barcelona) hit the sand, get stuck, retire, need to be pulled out by a crane, which brings out a safety car and five laps under caution flags. Drivers were overly cautious about making huge passes for position in case it went wrong and they DNF'd.

Now small mistakes go unpunished if they run wide, as long as they (and perhaps the car they almost hit) rejoin the track safely. But fear not, we still get awesome corners like the final chicane in Canada where any passing maneuver can seem like a gladiatorial fight to the death.

I guess it's natural for drivers to push the limits of the rules. Now that there's discussion about it, F1 will be quick to react and fix things to the satisfaction of all parties including the fans.

[XHawkeye]

<This is a 3-tweet combo>

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cow5I1wXEAApdpS.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cow5MaiWAAAEguF.jpg:large

Pirelli reveals first images of Ferrari's first wide-tyre test: http://bit.ly/2asQ8td #F1

Ferrari add wider rear wing & sideskirts to the floor to add downforce to the wide pirellis. Not a legal 017 set up

[Alan P]

Anyway, Rosberg clashing with Hamilton is a surprise... I thought he'd be the younger generation Jenson Button...

It's the desperation. You can see and feel it oozing out of every pore of his body every time he screws up or Hamilton just out-talents him and wins easily. And he willingly signed up to another two years of it. I can see a proper meltdown at some point in the next 2 1/2 years.

[dodint]

Says the guy who wants a stainless steel, mid-engined car from the 80s.

Oh, that's rich, King of the Small Penis two seater.

[samoht]

According to my friend who just left Ferrari, Pirelli don't know what they are doing with the tyres. He mentioned that Pirelli asked the teams how much downforce they would be making next year, to know how strong to make the tyres. All teams responded with pretty much the same estimate, based on projecting out the trend for year on year increases. Pirelli said 'we don't believe you will make that much downforce'. So unless they back down, we may see more exploding tyres.

So my understanding is that the non legal test parts shown represent a quick way of getting roughly the amount of downforce they expect to be able to get legally with next year's car.

[Kchrpm]

Oh, that's rich, King of the Small Penis two seater.

I've never pretended to not like gaudy.

[dodint]

There is a certain nobility in that.

[Alan P]

According to my friend who just left Ferrari, Pirelli don't know what they are doing with the tyres. He mentioned that Pirelli asked the teams how much downforce they would be making next year, to know how strong to make the tyres. All teams responded with pretty much the same estimate, based on projecting out the trend for year on year increases. Pirelli said 'we don't believe you will make that much downforce'. So unless they back down, we may see more exploding tyres.

So my understanding is that the non legal test parts shown represent a quick way of getting roughly the amount of downforce they expect to be able to get legally with next year's car.

And the teams have a history of only increasing the downforce as tweaks and development happen. :(

[XHawkeye]

Don't hold her too tight!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpUxiyAWIAA6JSW.jpg:large

Two hearts became one! - #Kimi7 and Minttu Virtanen were married yesterday in Tuscany Italy.

[IMOA]

Sat behind Eric boullier on the flight over from London, he was not positive about mclarens. Tomorrow will be sitting at Eau rouge watching F1. Giggity.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqsr5ATXEAAfjWC.jpg:large

On this day in 1991, Michael Schumacher makes his F1 debut at Spa #BelgianGP

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqjooxiXEAASZjo.jpg:large

Ken Tyrrell, who died 15 years ago today, in the words of Nigel Roebuck: http://bit.ly/2c3gbMJ

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqr9KvUWEAANcqo.jpg:large

#OTD in 1991, Michael Schumacher made his race debut in F1 at the #BelgianGP. #KeepFightingMichael #F1

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqp4twkWIAAkIGw.jpg:large

#OnThisDay, Race Winner, Dale Earnhardt & Tim Richmond battle during the 1985 Busch 500 @ Bristol. #NASCAR.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqpiG5wXEAAylth.jpg:large

No wings (big balls) in Monza. Ronnie Peterson, March-Ford 701, 1970 Italian GP.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqo8yiiWcAAeRll.jpg:large

Phil Hill, Ferrari, #BelgianGP, 1960. #F1 #Legend

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqn9C7nXgAAWtuh.jpg:large

#F1 Ayrton Senna, Mika Hakkinen (@McLarenF1) - Estoril-1993

[balki]

Wrong thread hawk (thanks for the 7up Jordans, though

Sat behind Eric boullier on the flight over from London, he was not positive about mclarens.
for this week, or not positive going forward (2017+)?

[IMOA]

Meant to say 'mclarens chances this weekend' but he did also talk about how this was very much a development year and the way he was talking you got the impression that he'd be saying the same thing next year.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq33wwKWIAAMNZS.jpg:large

@redbullracing (https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/769543542888890368) SPY: Not everyone is captivated by Allan’s insightful post quali delivery…#RBspy #F1

[Tom Servo]

I think Verstappen might need to be benched a couple of races while he's forced to watch other drivers on video. That got ridiculous at the end of the straight - he often wasn't even able to make the corner he was trying to defend, dragging the other driver out with him. At some point, he's going to hurt someone.

[dodint]

I sound like a broken record, I know, but I really hate the way that the universe constantly tilts and aligns for Lewis Hamilton. The worst Spa in years? Why of course, LH is starting dead last, lets make it a red flagged shitshow where half the competent drivers are out at T1.

[Alan P]

Max will either have or cause a very big accident at some point soon if he isn't reined in by the stewards or by Red Bull themselves.

[drew]

THe prompted one of the greatest things in F1 in recent years though. Hearing Kimi on radio say "fucking" twice, on Live TV was :up:

[dodint]

Vettel's radio in free practice was pretty good too, though not profane.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, Kimi was definitely the most innocent of the 3. Pinched between 2 aggressive drivers with no place to go. For Max, you had a poor start and lost position... should've been more aggressive at launching your machine rather than trying to cut corners later on... and for Vettel, shouldn't you leave a bit more room for your own teammate rather than expecting him to yield to you? As in this case, he has no room to give... and the result is this racing incident.

One thing is clear that Max has balls... not only on track, but also post race comments. Blaming those couple of seasoned former champions for not knowing what they're doing?!?!?

This kid will most likely go far and die young like Senna..., but hopefully not die too young...

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrLJDcnW8AAwE8G.jpg:large

Ahead of the Italian Grand Prix, the FIA delineate the Monza track, in a bid to reduce potential driver complaints. (https://twitter.com/GrandPrixDiary/status/770899982291468289)

[FaultyMario]

Felipinho has announced he is leaving F1 at the end of the year.

[dodint]

About 5 years late.

[drew]

:lol:

[IMOA]

So does that mean button to williams for a swansong?

[Alan P]

There was talk of Nasr or Perez but I reckon Perez will stay at FI and Nasr won't be leaving as he bring a lot of money to Sauber. Jenson will likely need to take a substantial pay cut from McLaren to get the seat though, which leaves SVD in at McLaren.

[Blerpa]

Vandhoorne at McLaren, Button at Williams for paycut. Perez will keep in FI.

[Blerpa]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125971/alonso-explains-why-verstappen-move-was-legal

"Fernando Alonso has explained why Max Verstappen's controversial defensive driving against Kimi Raikkonen in the recent Belgian Grand Prix was within the Formula 1 regulations.

Red Bull driver Verstappen's change of line at high speed along the Kemmel Straight to block Raikkonen's Ferrari drew criticism from the Finn in the latest incident to put the teenager's on-track behaviour in the spotlight.
Raikkonen claimed if he had not braked there would have been "a massive accident", which he feels will "happen sooner or later" if Verstappen fails to change his ways.

When asked about Verstappen's behaviour at Spa, Alonso told reporters: "In the middle of the straight you are allowed to do one move as long as the other one is not alongside you, so everything fits.

"Regarding Max, on the long straight, I don't think Kimi was side by side.
"It was very late and maybe he didn't judge where Kimi was, but Kimi was still behind. The rule, as written, is still good."

Article 27.7 of the sporting regulations states: "Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his.

"Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason.
"For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'."

Asked whether the rule was clear enough, and whether Verstappen's move was OK, double world champion Alonso said: "I think it's clear, this one."

The rules, however, do not take into account the speed differential of the cars, which was particularly high at Spa due to the Kemmel Straight being part of a DRS zone.

Alonso added: "I remember being at Minardi in 2001 and the speed difference being even bigger when Michael [Schumacher] was coming. This is F1."
Verstappen, however, continues to be criticised for his moves in the braking zone, where again there is no definitive regulation, but effectively an unwritten code of conduct between the drivers.

"We cannot confuse the fans about two very different incidents: one on the middle of the straight, like Verstappen and Kimi, or in braking areas like me in Australia [when he crashed into the back of Haas's Esteban Gutierrez]," said Alonso.
"But I probably misjudged the braking point so it was bigger.
"Or again with Max and Kimi in Hungary where I felt Max was moving under braking a lot into Turn 2, and he was way too aggressive.

"We spoke about it in Germany in the drivers' briefing.
"All the drivers were not happy with Max in Hungary because it was under braking at Turn 2."

[IMOA]

It's going to be interesting for max this weekend. At Spa there were more Dutch football jumpers than there was no red bull team gear. To be clear, that's all the other team gear combined. To go from that to Monza where i suspect he won't be too popular might be interesting to watch.

What's Dan's popularity like in Italy? Does he get a bit of kinda sorta Italian so first choice after the Ferrari drivers?

[FaultyMario]

Perez (sensibly) stays at FI.
Button takes a sabbatical.
Vandoorne gets a drive.

[Blerpa]

It's going to be interesting for max this weekend. At Spa there were more Dutch football jumpers than there was no red bull team gear. To be clear, that's all the other team gear combined. To go from that to Monza where i suspect he won't be too popular might be interesting to watch.

What's Dan's popularity like in Italy? Does he get a bit of kinda sorta Italian so first choice after the Ferrari drivers?

Ricciardo? He's a bit popular, what with being of a family originally from Italy, especially from Sicily in his case (people with southern italian origins gets more popular than ones with origins from northern Italy).
He even speaks a bit of italian and he's a jolly positive fellow... he surely is in Ferrari's radar, along with Hamilton (obviously), Rosberg (which speaks perfect italian), Gutierrez and so on (the Ferrari proteges).

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrqifW4WgAEJX8s.jpg:large

F1 sale thrown into confusion with appearance of last minute bidder. (https://twitter.com/GrandPrixDiary/status/773109091409559553)

[SkylineObsession]

http://www.motormag.com.au/news/1609/formula-1-sold-to-us-media-group

Not sure if you peeps have waffled on about the sale or not already. Sounds interesting though, and is it just me or does $8b seem cheap?

I haven't watched formula 1 since they went to pay TV (SKY TV) here in NZ, and that was back in the V10 days i think. Maybe 2007 or earlier?

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cs485ZhWEAA2ONc.jpg

"We call it 'The iChair'" #McLaren

[The359]

Aaaaaaand the FIA schedules the 2017 Baku GP for the same day as Le Mans. Again. :rolleyes:

[Kchrpm]

WE MUST REMAIN SPECIAL

:rolleyes:

[Alan P]

TBH I reckon it's done on purpose. All the press that Hulkenberg, the ACO and WEC got from him being able to do it made Bernie jealous.

[Kchrpm]

Oh I'm positive it's done on purpose. It's easier than setting a rule saying they're not allowed to participate in other series.

[Rare White Ape]

Who released their calendar first? F1 or WEC? And is Le Mans always pre-set to a traditional weekend that is the same every year?

Also, what role would Ecclestone have in this decision, given that F1 was sold recently?

[Blerpa]

Also, what role would Ecclestone have in this decision, given that F1 was sold recently?

Bernie will remain at helm for other three years before passing the whole reins.

[Rare White Ape]

Oh ok. I was skeptical at first but I'm on board now.

I can't wait for the old cunt to fuck off.

[The359]

Who released their calendar first? F1 or WEC? And is Le Mans always pre-set to a traditional weekend that is the same every year?

Also, what role would Ecclestone have in this decision, given that F1 was sold recently?

Le Mans is traditionally the 2nd weekend in June. It's always announced at the previous year's event. So the WEC calendar was only announced a week or so ago, but Le Mans has been known for three months.

[neanderthal]

Anyone know what channel F1 is on (in English) on DirecTV? I used to have it set for recording the entire season and have missed the last three races. Now I can only find a Spanish language showing of it and not an English one.

[Freude am Fahren]

NBC Sports Network. I think you need more than the base package. Looks like it's ch. 220 according to https://www.directv.com/guide?autoClick=OOH.

[neanderthal]

Thanks.

I have all the channels other than porn. I just can't find it. Ever! Although it used to record automatically. There's English Soccer on 220 right now.

I guess i'm watching a taped delay on whatever Spanish language one i'm watching.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah they show a lot of EPL. Race was live at 2:30 a.m. this morning. Replay at 7:30 p.m. Eastern tonight. You should have access to the NBC Sports streaming service with your account if you want to watch it now.

http://www.nbcsports.com/live or there's an app.

[FaultyMario]

That was some horrible stewarding. Verstappen's back end had gotten loose before turn-in at the start (or at least that's what I'm seeing on the helicam). It was racing incident at WORST.

[Freude am Fahren]

??? Which incident are you talking about? I don't remember any penalties other than Rosberg's, which I think was fair. He'll make a great touring car racer though.

[FaultyMario]

Vettel got a 3 place grid penalty for Suzuka for causing a collision.

[Freude am Fahren]

Oh, yeah I can see that. It was an overly ambitious move that ruined* someone else's race.

*well, it was a Mercedes, so he could get back to 3rd, but he probably would have won.

Also for those watching the NBCSN broadcast, what the hell if wrong with these guys, are they completely blind. Multiple replays later, and Matchett, who usually doesn't have these issues kept pretending there weren't clear lights from both directions. Yeah they came on late, but other than that it was a normal start.

[dodint]

Yeah, after the umpteenth time they tried to say there was a problem with the lights I wanted to scream at the TV. They tried to say there was an optical illusion where the camera wasn't picking up light. :twitch: Rubes.

[Freude am Fahren]

I get being a bit confused at first. It was a long wait, then they cut to the driver POV camera right as the lights started to go on, and back to the turn one POV right as they went out. But after one replay, they should have been like, "Oh nevermind."

[dodint]

Maybe if they were on location they could've gotten it right the first time. ;)

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtwPiOZUEAAotO8.jpg:large

Kimi Raikkonen. Always there to help. (https://twitter.com/f1writers/status/782523236642918400) #F1 #MalaysiaGP via @TheZestyOranges

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ctwa8h1XYAAhJGT.jpg:large

Because everyone loves a good meme... via (https://twitter.com/f1writers/status/782580260529471488) @natesaundESPNF1

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtxWZQ_XYAAySIf.jpg:large

Please, Fernando. Help me!!! .😂😂😂😂 Hamilton and Fernando #F1 #MalaysiaGp (https://twitter.com/f1writers/status/782595429552754688)

[FaultyMario]

Oh, yeah I can see that. It was an overly ambitious move that ruined* someone else's race.


Yeah but in context, Rosberg had first left the door wide open for Verstappenbut changed his mind way too late. Verstappen in turn was trying to outbrake Vettel but didn't decide soon enough whether to close the door on Vettel or go for Rosberg's gap, that's why his car was at a 45° in respect to the restof the cars at turn in. Vettel just outbraked himself.

The three of them were overly ambitious, thus racing incident.

[Godson]

Fuck rosberg.

[IMOA]

Some thoughts from today

Fantastic to be at a track full of motor sports fans, at spa the crowd appeared to be mostly football fans.

Crowd numbers seemed low but with a lot more foreigners. It will be interesting to see if it packs out tomorrow but it really was quite empty for Suzuka.

Watched an interview with Danny ric and max on the main stage after qualifying. Danny is a really charismatic guy and max is Casey stoner levels of awkward.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuVFA5KUAAA6qo4.jpg:large

@thebuxtonblog Absolute Gold from Reddit tonight https://t.co/WafNPtdPkJ

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

[FaultyMario]

To parahrase Martin Brundle, he'll one day have his car pointing skywards.

[Blerpa]

Force India will release Hulkenberg at the end of the season. Destination? Renault F1 team.
Valtteri Bottas from Williams is also in talks with Renault for the second seat.

[dodint]

Hulkenberg is going to have a Heidfeld career. One of those steady guys that just never cracked into the very top.

Also expected better things for Bottas. Williams in general also seems to be in decline, really thought they were going to have a nice resurgence over the last two years and it hasn't panned out. Do we have any idea who might drive for them next season?

[Freude am Fahren]

Mark Webber is retiring. Hulk should back out of Renault and go to Porsche. If that seat isn't filled anyway. Some rumors have Montoya or Tandy in it.

[Alan P]

Jenson?

[dodint]

No.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CutfklmWcAAsJo8.jpg:large

[CudaMan]

Sky were hinting strongly that Lance Stroll (sp) would take a Williams seat.

[FaultyMario]

Yeehaw!

[Freude am Fahren]

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0166/4148/products/Gives_You_Wins_tee_grande.png?v=1477262206

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvdP8-gW8AAhjIV.jpg:large

Tooned Alonso is here, Lewis!!! ���� Part IV #F1 #USGP #by @ikmshv

[drew]

Well, that was certainly the most entertaining 15 minutes in F this year.


"Charlie needs to fuck off"

Fucking, gold. :lol:

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, the stewards were shite, as usual.

VES should have had to give up the spot immediately. HAM probably should have gotten a penalty (5 sec.) if there hadn't been a safety car.

[Blerpa]

VES should have had to give up the spot immediately. HAM probably should have gotten a penalty (5 sec.) if there hadn't been a safety car.

T1, first lap, he borked the braking point and didn't gain anything, stewards correct to not penalize Hamilton.

[FaultyMario]

They are always lenient on T1 incidents but Hamilton went off and rejoined after T2, not sure what would have been fair, a reprimand? Do it again and it won't matter if it's the start?

[dodint]

If the Vettel 'block' was worth 10 seconds then what Hamilton did at the start was deserving of being dragged out of the car and shot in the head.

[Blerpa]

Hamilton did lose the braking point and didn't get any unfair advantage, plus behind him Rosberg and Verstappen were battling it on.
Horner and Red Bull instructed Verstappen not to give the position (radio message not broadcasted), they even openly said to Autosport.com in an interview and they were pretty adamant about it.
Then Vettel and the contact with Ricciardo... I think the whole rules must be thought up once again from the beginning.

[Freude am Fahren]

They should just use some common sense, and yes, the end result of a confrontation should determine if a penalty should be given. If you push yourself by someone and they don't get major damage or crash/spin-out, whatever, let it be.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, if you overtook somebody by cutting corners, then you ought to give that position back. Max, didn't gain any positions by cutting that corner... so I think it's fair for him to not give up his original position. However, subsequently if he's penalized for cutting corner, that's fair too.

But to be truly fair, Hamilton should've been given a 5s penalty too... but of course that won't change the final results anyway...

Vettel just whines too much.

[Tom Servo]

Just finally watched it. That was pathetic. Verstappen should have been told to give the position away immediately.

FWIW, I totally disagree with you on that you shouldn't have to give up the position if you didn't gain a position. If that's the rule, then all you have to do to avoid being passed at T1 is just not take T1.

[Freude am Fahren]

Exactly. If you are in a battle for a position and you gain time on your opponent, you should have to at least give back the time. I don't know if it's feasible to tell a drive to allow the one behind to catch him, then he can go at it again, but maybe.

If Lewis is 20 seconds ahead on lap 40 and does it, sure who cares. But a drive should get a warning for cutting even if not in a battle. 3 strikes, and some kind of penalty.

[Crazed_Insanity]

In Lewis' case, should he give the position back to Roseberg only? Or perhaps more? How would you make that determination?

Cutting corner like that should be given a separate penalty rather than just give up positions to guys behind you.

They should've put a bunch of tire barrier/obstacle course there to really encourage folks to avoid cutting corners like that. Or assess a hefty stop and go penalty at the pit or something.

[Tom Servo]

Interestingly enough, it looks like the stewards actually don't actually have the authority to tell a driver to give up a position, they can just assess things like time penalties, drive-through penalties, etc. The drivers do it as a gesture of "I screwed up, so I'm going to give up the advantage I got in the hopes that you don't penalize me." It sounds like Red Bull knew that Verstappen was going to get dinged for that move, but considered it more advantageous to leave him out there and have him take the penalty later, as it would give Ricciardo a chance to catch up to Vettel.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It was definitely a good call for the team.

[Godson]

Well fuck. I was hoping vettel got that position.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxAsrEOUAAA6BGL.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxAHHM7XAAA1gQg.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxAin_kXEAE-wN7.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxBTXmZWIAAXSqw.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxEGWdnXEAAvZUK.jpg:large

[XHawkeye]

@alanbaldwinf1 (https://twitter.com/alanbaldwinf1/status/797452777689583616): You may not read a more important story today... https://t.co/BLNsHjP4vL

[Godson]

Seriously? People actually care about this shit?

[FaultyMario]

Wet interlagos, yummy!

[Freude am Fahren]

Pirelli needs to figure out how to make a proper wet tire it seems. We've seen them race just fine in worse conditions in the past. The fact that the Intermediate is just as fast if not faster on 90% of the lap today is ridiculous.

[FaultyMario]

I don't want to come across all sour, but Max's car was behaving differently after the red flag. The grip it was finding must not have come only from a confident driver, but from a driver confident in the car's (newfound) limit, if you catch my drift.

It wouldn't be the firs time RBR did something dodgy.

[FaultyMario]

When Sky called on Horner to comment on the imminent Perez pass, he was way too composed to not know something everybody else didn't.

[FaultyMario]

I'm probably guilty of the tin foil hat sin, but I'd like to hear Cuda's explanation.

[Freude am Fahren]

What could they have done? Install nitrous? You're allowed to do anything to the car that would still be legal in post race-tech. I think he was just on much better tires after his second stop (and he's really good).

[FaultyMario]

What could they have done? Install nitrous? You're allowed to do anything to the car that would still be legal in post race-tech. I think he was just on much better tires after his second stop (and he's really good).

I'm thinking something that would have worked in those conditions (15+ seconds per lap slower than normal) maybe some extreme aero (isn't its effects more marked in colder temperatures?) and some sort of tweakable interconnected suspension, something they were hoping worked.

[FaultyMario]

I mean Hulk's recovery was amazing, but Max's drive blew it out of the water. That's not consistent with a car that was throughout the weekend the third fastest after Mercedes and Ferrari.

Now, we know that the merc boys were playing it safe, but why didn't Vettel or Ricciardo in similar machinery have a second only to Verstappen race?
I mean his advantage was so huge that even when his team effed up his strategy sending him to inters, had the race been 3 laps longer he'd surely beaten Rosberg for second and might have had a shot at Hamilton.

Not buying it.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxJch0aXUAImucd.jpg:large

Alonso relaxed and rain comes at the #BrazilGP #F1 😂😂😂😂
pic @JGphotography5

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxUeAK_WEAA60bC.jpg

BREAKING: Ron Dennis steps down as McLaren chairman http://es.pn/2fVWRPM #F1

[Alan P]

Or in an alternative point of view, he was told, rather firmly, to resign or be pushed. Wonder if they'll try and get Ross Brawn in? He could easily supervise from Woking and wouldn't need to go to every race which I think he'd much prefer.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxX48C2VIAAhUt8.jpg

@SportmphMark on why Ron Dennis is been forced to leave @McLarenF1: http://bit.ly/2fUo4lF

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxPfFNTW8AEM33l.jpg:large

[Crazed_Insanity]

What's up with mclaren? Why forcing Dennis to be a gardener?

[Alan P]

What's up with mclaren? Why forcing Dennis to be a gardener?

Ok, my memory may be a little hazy, and I'm likely to miss stuff out, but: now this is a story all about how....ok seriously. McLaren is owned by Mumtalakat (the investment arm of the Bahraini government) who own 50%, Ron himself who owns 25% and Mansour Ojjeh, who owns the TAG group who owns the last 25%. That group used to own TAG-Heuer but they're now separate.

Ron and Ojjeh fell out a good few years ago, although I cannot remember why. Ron has been trying to raise funds to buy both Mumtalakat and Ojjeh out and apwas apparently close to gaining funding from some Chinese investors but that fell through and the other owners managed to push through the board Ron's 'gardening leave' until his current contract with McLaren Grand Prix expires at the end of the year. I think.

[FaultyMario]

Apparently Dennis tried the buyout of Ojjeh when his then friend was being treated for some bad shit. The financier did not take the takeover attempt well.

And the gardening leave is a standard practice to protect industry secrets by making innovations expire once the person with the knowledge no longer has access to its improvements.

[Alan P]

I'm not entirely sure Ron would have the detailed knowledge of much of what makes McLaren, but he probably would have had access to it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So it's all just for stupid personal reasons? Not business? Like how apple 1st got rid of Jobs due to leadership differences?

[FaultyMario]

Do remember that in 2014 Dennis did the same to the board by taking over Whitmarsh, a close(r) friend of Ojjeh. And in the interim he had tried to get chinese investors to buy the Bahrainis out, which he failed at along with losing sponsor money for the F1 team.

I don't know, even when the sporting side is way off it seems the industrial part of the McLaren Group is doing relatively well, but who knows what's going on behind closed doors.

Read here (http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38000198), complete with Ronspeak at the end.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Article is still not very clear about what happened, still sound like some kind of personal dick fight rather than a legitimate mutiny because the board lost faith in Ron...

Hope those won out really know how to run mclaren... Or maybe Ron is taken out to pave the way for a complete Apple takeover? There are rumors of an apple bid, right?

[Alan P]

A bit more info about the history thanks to Joe Saward. https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/11/16/ron-dennis-and-mclaren-2/

[Crazed_Insanity]

What a mess!

Surely it is a company now riped for Apple to pick...

I also don't want to be in Honda's shoes at this point...

Maybe Honda should consider buying it and make it a factory team... And NSX would all of a sudden gain a bunch of capable siblings... ;)

No wonder Mclaren hasn't been winning lately... Way too much internal politics to deal with...

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxibdPDXgAAuq1w.jpg

Roebuck on Ron: http://bit.ly/2g2WfHO

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxi4-snXcAAXVVs.jpg

@F1Photographer (https://twitter.com/F1Photographer/status/799592570665869312) #Ferrari #F1 are falling apart. Get the new @CARmagazine to read @TomClarksonF1 telling it like it is.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyA1yibXUAA13Ta.jpg

Blimey, Ron's only been gone five minutes and already they are hanging flags the wrong way round. (https://twitter.com/GrandPrixDiary/status/801700186963767296)

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyGF7hvXcAAb7Mh.jpg:large

@mitchevans_ (https://twitter.com/mitchevans_/status/802069476640440321) warming it up for @alo_oficial

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyFd6neXAAA4w07.jpg:large

If you like looking at this picture scroll thru @ScarbsTech time line for many more (https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech)

[G'day Mate]

Lewis ... :smh:

Wish I'd had German commentary for those last few laps

[Freude am Fahren]

I have no problem with Lewis doing what he did. He didn't race dirty, he just did what he needed to give himself a chance. I'm glad Rosberg won the championship though. Next year should be a good fight between them again.

[FaultyMario]

I'm not okay with what Lewis did, it reeked of desperation and of someone who had underestimated his main rival.

If he tried it earlier and more often in the season, though. I'd be more than okay with it. Although I'm sure the team would not, so meh.

[Freude am Fahren]

It was desperation. Last race of the season, only chance to win the championship. Control the race as best you can. He wasn't blocking or anything, just controlling the pace.

[FaultyMario]

Oh I know, I just wished he'd done it sooner into the season, then he'd let the RBs and the Ferraris into the mix.

Paddy and Toto would not have been happy, but I would.

[IMOA]

Doing it earlier in the season would have been putting championship positions at risk and that would have been out of order. As he did it he put nothing at risk for Mercedes and simply created a situation where is zero chance of the championship became a tiny one. I think you'd have to be a pretty one-eyed rosberg fan to have an issue with what he did.

[Freude am Fahren]

Let's talk about Red Bull for a second. RIC can't be that much worse than VES on tires, can he? Why did they bring him in so soon? If he had gone as long as VES on his tires, he'd have a shot at the win.

[IMOA]

Red bull have a habit of fucking up the strategy quite badly sometimes and lucking into a good one. RIC had set a fastest lap the lap before he came in so his tyres were still in good condition, I think they were just trying to get an undercut on kimi and didn't think it through all that well.

[Godson]

I have no problem with Lewis doing what he did. He didn't race dirty, he just did what he needed to give himself a chance. I'm glad Rosberg won the championship though. Next year should be a good fight between them again.

Sums up my feelings well.

Ferrari on the other hand is dumb. The strategists are idiotic. Pitting that early in the race with vettel and kimi. If they pitted 2 laps later with each, vettel would have had more fresh tires at the end. He could have won. Kimi got fucked by the pit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Championship was Rosbergs to lose... If he missed it this year, surely Lewis won't let him have another chance again... Unless of course God decides to mess with his car's reliability again...

[Blerpa]

I have no problem with Lewis doing what he did. He didn't race dirty, he just did what he needed to give himself a chance.

Exactly.
What it was in poor taste was Mercedes trying to make Lewis give up. That's disgusting.
Oh well, enjoy it while it last, second fiddle champion.

[balki]

It made for a great show, but if the team repeatedly says to stop going so slow do they punish or boot him (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns35400.html)? It's not like they can't get Alonso or just about anyone else (outside of Max?)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Now that a German has won, hopefully Mercedes can provide 2 equally reliable cars from now on...

I don't think Hamilton cares whether if Mercedes punishes or boots him. Frankly, I really don't think Hamilton did anything THAT outrageous.... If it were Schuey or Senna, surely things would be a whole lot nastier earlier!

[Yobbo NZ]

A video popped up on my facebook newsfeed from F1 Archives about Schumacher doing this to Hakkinen in 97 at Suzuka.
It was to allow Irvine past so he could chase Villeneuve.
Also mentions Senna in 91 doing this to Mansell so Berger could take off in the lead.

[FaultyMario]

But aren't those examples of gatekeeping?

[Alan P]

I get the impression some are butthurt that he was asked by Mercedes management to speed up and he didn't. Some say he outright defied them. Sure he didn't do what they asked but they still got their 1-2, their German champion they've wanted since asking Schuey out of retirement and the WCC. No doubt they'll be having a chat with Lewis about it but I don't see it being that big a deal. Rosberg causing two collisions between their drivers was more serious and little happened.

Now if the championships next season are a lot closer with Ferrari and Red Bull pushing them harder and being in the mix for race wins and the WCC then I would expect more to happen if there's a repeat of his antics.

[FaultyMario]

Like Greg said, it's much about none.

I hope Ferrari can get their act together, they're not bad, bad. They just aren't great in any of the variables currently affecting the races.

PU outright power - They're behind Mercedes
PU management and integration - Behind Mercedes and RB
Aerodynamics - Behind RB and maybe Merc.
Strategy - Hit and miss, moreso than any other top 6 team
On track operation - Behind Merc and Williams.
One-lap pace - Again, hit and miss.
Tyre management - I'd say Force India got 4th in the WCC thanks to that, and RB were quicker to move to plan B thanks to better strategists. Mercedes couldn't give a fuck given the immense advantage they had. So I think Ferrari never could get anything out of tire management.

Hopefully tire management is gone next year, and the people they got for strategy seem to have done a better job towards the end of the season. Operations will improve with team morale but Ferrari have got to get Aero right this time.

[FaultyMario]

And just to be clear, I'm no fan of Ferrari, but it is detrimental to the championship to have not them fighting for wins.

[balki]

Thought Ferrari had good race pace under hot conditions, but there were very few races that actually had high track temps on Sunday.
They were also less reliable than Merc, RBR and FI (they did have 9 podiums and the first 9 races)

[Crazed_Insanity]

But aren't those examples of gatekeeping?

Yeah, I wasn't referring to 'teamwork', when their own championship is on the line, I'm pretty sure most former champs won't be thinking of the team...

Anyway, if I were Rosberg, I would've allowed Vettel to pass and let him chase down Hamilton. 3rd is good enough to win anyway..., plus, there'd be a good chance Vettel might crash into Hamilton for the lead! ;)

[FaultyMario]

I was replying to Yobbo's post.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The 'yeah' was specifically for you, the rest was for yobbo and the last paragraph was just me imagining out of my ass! :p

[FaultyMario]

Thought Ferrari had good race pace under hot conditions, but there were very few races that actually had high track temps on Sunday.
They were also less reliable than Merc, RBR and FI (they did have 9 podiums and the first 9 races)

But isnt high-temperature performance somehow a symptom of lowly aerodynamic performance, as cooler temperatures (more density air?) tend to enhance aero loads?

[balki]

yes, but I was thinking more along lines of tire wear at +50°C
ideally (for them) it would have been a hot summer and they would have finished a distant second like last year

Despite closer racing (RBR and Ferrari were within a second a lap) Mercedes managed to win more than ever (19 of 21, as opposed to 16 of 19 the two prior years)

[Crazed_Insanity]

True, colder air is denser, but the most sensitive thing to temperature is probably tires... and a number of things could cause that besides aero. My guess is that they had a fairly decent car, but it probably just has a very small 'sweet spot' that can only be accessible during hot conditions.

I think the same can be said about the drivers too. Vettel and Kimi are for sure pretty decent, but are not the best of the best in the current field.

Anyway, hope they figure it out soon.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyTk-K9XcAACIl3.jpg:large

Keke & Nico, Father & Son World Champions. #F1

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyS3yDEWgAEXH4O.jpg:large

If you think you've had a bad year, spare a thought for Daniil Kvyat #F1 #AbuDhabiGP (https://twitter.com/wtf1couk/status/802968770931261441)

[Kchrpm]

How many millions of dollars was he paid? I think he'll be alright.

[XHawkeye]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVKC_5YFBFM

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't believe I've ever seen a sparklier pass than that!

Anyway, hope Mercedes dominance will end next year so we can see more of that kind of fight for the championship.

[FaultyMario]

@hawkeye's video:

Holy shit, how I wish the cinematographer for FOM was briefed on car performance and not advertisers' visibility and could choose lenses that conveyed that sense of speed more often.

[Godson]

Fucking hell that was nuts

[Kchrpm]

And now Nico has retired: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127368

[Freude am Fahren]

Wow. That is a surprise. Maybe he got what he wanted and didn't want to deal with the nonsense of F1 and his teammate anymore. I hope we see him in sportscars, and see what he's really made of.

So who's in at Mercedes? Wehrlein? Is Ocon signed with FI already?

[The359]

This has to be a real blow to F1, that their champion is too tired of the sport to give them anything more after hes taken his title.

[Crazed_Insanity]

As a father of a toddler, I can totally understand.

He shouldn't have started a family if he's that committed to f1. If you started a family, don't forget to be a father! I have more respect for Rosberg now.

Plus, there are so many young talents who deserve race seats. I don't mind seeing him go.

[FaultyMario]

He shouldn't have started a family if he's that committed to f1. If you started a family, don't forget to be a father! I have more respect for Rosberg now.

Seriously?

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

You well know that's not how it works.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--D1Pyh22R--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/w9h8ca1ejm12owymrjdg.jpg

[balki]

totally, doesn't he have an out-clause if a seat at Mercedes is offered?
Would he partner back up with Lewis?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Alonso deserves a better car, but probably not a good idea to be Hamiltons teammate again.

[Reynard]

I've always sort of rooted for Nico during his F1 tenure but his, ahem, performance at the end of Austria this year really soured my opinion of him a bit. For sure though I think he earned the championship and with his announcement today, he just gained a ton of respect from me. Just like Casey Stoner I think when you can leave at the height of your powers, when the game just ain't fun anymore, no what future potential lies within is great. :up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Seriously?

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.



You well know that's not how it works.

I have more respect for Rosberg's decision to retire, that's judgmental to you?

How should it work? That we should be able to focus 100% on our careers and be 100% there for our wife and kids too?