2017 F1 Season Compendium

[FaultyMario]

It's the tires. It was always the tires.

But now that the Totally Rad Inter-Connected Kickass (TRICK) suspensions were banned, and that Ferrari have a good engine package, Mercedes advantage is only in Q3 when they can use the super special engine mode that destroys engines because they have never gotten on top of the Pirellis, not when Michael was there and Not in 2013 when they started locking up front rows. 2014-2016 they had massive power advantage that masked their shortcomings in other areas. In those four years, they've learned a lot about their intricate aero model and they have successfully trailed RB on the suspensions, but with that gone, the steady techno crawl from Ferrari has almost leveled with the sheer speed of the Mercedes, and their wide operating window is what's winning them races.

[Blerpa]

Very good analysis from Mario. I agree with it.
Still, Mercs are going to be the best in speed tracks, what with the two good drivers they have and sligth power advantage, plus aero.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, the biggest performance gap was Hamilton last weekend. yeah the car had issues but Bottas managed to put up a decent fight near the front... Yeah the car has a tiny operational window, but you're paid the big bucks to stay within that window! ;)

[FaultyMario]

That's because a normal Bottas is way better than a distracted Hamilton.
A normal Bottas is slightly worse than a normal Hamilton.
And I believe a connected Bottas is better than a connected Hamilton.
But Bottas means stability and Hamilton is a fucking yoyo.

[FaultyMario]

And Bottas' partnership to Hamilton just goes to show how hard Rosberg had to work to get that WDC. No wonder he called it quits.
Bloke's an okay, decent driver. But Hamilton is mega.
Rosberg had to keep peak performance just to stay on par with normal Hamilton, thankfully for Rosberg, or maybe he was counting on that, maybe he knew that for every Fuji 2007 or COTA 2015, there would be a Canada 2008 or a Baku 2016.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting analysis... We'll see. Thus far Bottas seems on par with Rosberg, but then again he's new to the team so he may show more potential later on.

Regardless, Mercedes' biggest problem now is to get Hamilton to get it together... He's not being the mega driver that he should...

[Alan P]

Mercedes' car still has issues in dirty air compared to Ferrari's which seems to manage dirty air far better. On a clear track Mercedes seem faster but the way Vettel has managed to stay really close to cars in front over the season tells me Ferrari's aero efficiency seems far better.

[FaultyMario]

This happened at Ricardo Tormo in Valencia, yesterday. (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/kubi-vale-rena-2017-1.jpg)

With an old car from a defunct company, yup. (https://twitter.com/RenaultSportF1/status/872117144632393728)

[Blerpa]

The push, in all these years, to bring Kubica back on a F1 has bordered completely on the creepy and morbidly obsessive.
Let it be, he was not (my complete and personal opinion) champion material already then, what now?
More power to Renault, and Kubica himself, to do what they want to do, but I don't see much else aside from a publicity stunt full of over romantic rethoric.

[dodint]

The push, in all these years, to bring Kubica back on a F1 has bordered completely on the creepy and morbidly obsessive.
Let it be, he was not (my complete and personal opinion) champion material already then, what now?
More power to Renault, and Kubica himself, to do what they want to do, but I don't see much else aside from a publicity stunt full of over romantic rethoric.

Nobody driving those BMWs was going to be a champion. Robert didn't get the chance to jump ship the way Vettel did.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If he's given a top ride and without the likes of Hamilton or Alonso as teammates, I'm sure Robert could win a championship or 2.

Who knows, maybe with a driver like Kubica, engineers can sneak in some sort of driving aid not prohibited by regulations...

If a handicap driver ever wins a championship, I'm sure they'll scrutinized the heck out of those driving aides.

[FaultyMario]

His problem was the he had for all intents and purposes list his right arm, right?

So what if therapy and prosthetics gave most of it back. Should that detract from his talent?

[balki]

Since he left on RBR and Mercedes have won championships
The best he could have realistically hoped for was a 2012-2013 Kimi; score a couple of wins for Lotus-Renault and finish a distant 3rd

[Alan P]

Recent Kubica pictures:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBO8M8QXUAEVys9.jpg
http://img.interia.pl/motoryzacja/nimg/o/1/Robert_Kubica_Ronde_Lana_5896727.jpg

He wouldn't pass the mandatory driver evacuation test.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ah, that's right, huh...

[2ndMoparMan]

God I miss the sound of those V10's....

[FaultyMario]

That was a supreme lap from Hamilton.

[Freude am Fahren]

I like these post quali interviews. Much better than the podium interviews.

The moment today with the helmet was pretty special (though I'd have kept it in the case :lol:)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hamilton is indeed a worthy successor to Senna..., but I still like Senna more! :p

[XHawkeye]

I like these post quali interviews. Much better than the podium interviews.

The moment today with the helmet was pretty special (though I'd have kept it in the case :lol:)

the one at the track a replica (if one believes twitter) and the real one will sent to his pad in Monaco.

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, I believe that.

Too many hands at the track.

[FaultyMario]

That was a supreme lap from Hamilton.

Though it first seemed like he had left some on the first half of the lap (S1 and S2).

[Freude am Fahren]

Wow, FI/Perez really boned Ocon. Maybe lost a podium.

And Alonso. Wow. Another engine failure a lap from finishing in the points! I hope they just say fuck it, and go buy some 2016 Mercedes PU's :lol:

[FaultyMario]

I put the blame on the FI wall, show some authority dudes!

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, I agree.

[Alan P]

Absolutely FI's pitwall team. No one authoritative voice telling Perez to let Ocon past. Vettel was coming on like a train and even without Kimi's issues you just know Vettel would have flown past him within even a flicker of slowing down. Ocon at the post race interviews was remarkably pragmatic and down played it a lot but I'm sure he'll have some choice words for the top brass and Perez in private. I'm sure in Perez's head he did the right thing because he finished ahead of Ocon. Looks like maybe FI did the right think taking Esteban over Pascal?

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCEbJhSXYAEbDd8.jpg:large

Still faster and reliable than #Honda engine.. #McLarenHonda #CanadianGP #F1 💀 pic.twitter.com/lEbG5YTbf7

[Freude am Fahren]

Absolutely FI's pitwall team. No one authoritative voice telling Perez to let Ocon past. Vettel was coming on like a train and even without Kimi's issues you just know Vettel would have flown past him within even a flicker of slowing down. Ocon at the post race interviews was remarkably pragmatic and down played it a lot but I'm sure he'll have some choice words for the top brass and Perez in private. I'm sure in Perez's head he did the right thing because he finished ahead of Ocon. Looks like maybe FI did the right think taking Esteban over Pascal?

Yeah, I can't fault Perez for the simple fact that he was never told to move aside, only kindly requested. They should have said as soon as Ocon got to DRS, let him by. He very well could have gotten Ricciardo in a lap or two. Then you tell Perez if you can pass the Red Bull and catch back up to Ocon, we'll swap you back in front (knowing he wouldn't be able to do both).

[Blerpa]

Force India major screw up.
Ocon is rookie of the year, so to speak, so far.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I just saw a clip on Youtube... that Captain Picard drank champagne out of Ricciardo's stinky shoe!!! Yuck!

[Godson]

Yeah, ocon got screwed.

Kimis luck with reliability continues.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Max topped both practice sessions..., wonder if the Red Bulls found their wings again or just a fluke... since Vettel and Hamilton seemed to be off of their usual form.

[FaultyMario]

Fluke. There is no way a Mercedes PU is not going to win this weekend's drag race.

[FaultyMario]

I'm more interested to see if Valtteri can break his own speed record.

[XHawkeye]

Both McLarens out in Q1 #AzerbaijanGP #F1 Credit: racingjokes https://t.co/F2Ywq8reJO <--- Open for gif


===========


Updated power unit component use table as McLaren hit 70 grid place penalties at one race in Baku: #F1 #AzerbaijanGP https://t.co/KnbuynRwRy

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDFXuxKXsAAHIDH.jpg



==========


Fernando clearly hasn't lost his sense of humour.... #f1 #BakuGP @SkySportsF1 https://t.co/HzXKsKolDP

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDF0b_qXoAA9ZF8.jpg

[FaultyMario]

Fluke. There is no way a Mercedes PU is not going to win this weekend's drag race.

Hamilton pulls a one-second gap to third place in Q3.

[Crazed_Insanity]

QFT? ;)

Yeah, I guess it didn't make sense for RB to suddenly catch up with their PU.

[Blerpa]

Fuck Vettel.

[FaultyMario]

Fuck Baku. Not a Grade 1 track by any stretch of the imagination.
The reason why Vettel ran into the back of Hamilton, I think, was because he was expecting Hamilton to floor it once the SC had driven off, but the car did not get away fast enough and it was still too close after the corner and Hamilton kept his SC pace. That would not have happened in a proper race track where there's room and visibility. I hate blind 90 degree bends.

Honestly, I saw nothing wrong with Vettel's slow-speed tire rub. It's like when footballers slap the back of the opponent's head after a disputed play.

[FaultyMario]

My one argument to hate this race is Stroll in the podium. If that's not a fluke, I don't know what is.

[Blerpa]

I only hope the german retard makes some shit at next race: if he garns another 3 penalty points he is going to sit out a race.
I'd actually compliment Stroll to have managed to be there in such a chaotic race: we will see what will happen in the future.
I haven't seen the same hatred for that idiot of Palmer or for Ericsson, for example.

[dodint]

I'm okay with the Vettel penalty.

How Bottas on Kimi wasn't a penalty, or Ocon on Perez, or Hamilton on Vettel is disturbing. Ugly track, ugly race.

[Freude am Fahren]

Vettel and Hamilton should both have been black flagged and excluded, IMO. Clear brake check. You don't brake between the apex and the exit of a corner doing anything else. Vettel's infraction seems obvious to me. This isn't NASCAR, you can't go around hitting other cars to make a point. I don't care how "lightly".

As for Bottas and Kimi, I think Kimi came across him and Bottas had no where to go but across the curb, which is the reason he hit Kimi.

Ocon on Perez was stupid, but I'm not sure if penalty worthy. It may not be right, but I kinda think stewards should leave that up to the team up to a certain point when it's that kinda situation.

[Blerpa]

Hamilton slow down wasn't blatant and precise, and no, it wasn't a brake check... but what Vettel did? Incredible he didn't get disqualified: he bloody almost passed an opponent (not possible under safety car) and punted said opponent on purpose.
Bottas should have got a drive through at least.

[Blerpa]

Oh, btw... "what a shame, we could've won this race". Made my day.

[Blerpa]

FIA analysis showed Hamilton did not brake-test Vettel (https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-hamilton-vettel-baku-brake-testing-923425/)

[FaultyMario]

I'm not sure Vettel's intention was to hit Hamilton. It seemed to me he kept the steering wheel straight while alongside, but because the road was not straight and he was too busy being a child they ended up bumping tires.

Perhaps I'm wrong but i haven't caught a replay and I'm just saying this because it's contrary to Sky's pundits.

[Blerpa]

Actually FIA checked many video feeds and they are certain Vettel kept at least an hand on the steering wheel and did it on purpose.

[Freude am Fahren]

I'm not sure Vettel's intention was to hit Hamilton. It seemed to me he kept the steering wheel straight while alongside, but because the road was not straight and he was too busy being a child they ended up bumping tires.

Perhaps I'm wrong but i haven't caught a replay and I'm just saying this because it's contrary to Sky's pundits.

I thought this too when I watched it. He still threw a fit that resulted in contact though.

I kinda want to call BS on the FIA, but I'll watch some replays when I get home.

[racerfink]

When you watch the in-car feed from Vettel, you see a definite turn to the right in the left front wheel, then the 'shake' after contact is made. A very deliberate act by Vettel.

[FaultyMario]

Fair enough on your respective explanations.

But yeah, what Nate said. Terrible track, terrible play-calling from the referees. The slow getaway from hamilton / hissy fit from Vettel caught them totally offguard and the ensuing carnage can only pinned to race control.

If Kvyat's dumb penalty issuing was last race then it's two fuckups in a row for Whiting and Co.

[IMOA]

Kind of surprised that anyone could look at that and think that Vettel didn't very clearly and intentionally hit Hamilton. He has some anger issues behind the wheel and I think he got off very lightly. Someone needs to get him to an anger management class because that sort of behaviour has no place on a race track. He intentionally hit another car while under safety car, he's very lucky not to be watching a race (or more) from the grandstand.

As for Hamilton, I get how people can think that he might have braketested Vettel, especially if they pay attention to Vettels little rants, but I though it was pretty clear that it was Vettel driving into the back of amilton while hamilton kept constant speed. The fact that Vettel is claiming that Hamilton accelerated then braked while the telemetry shows no such ting tells you all you need to know about how much stock to put in what Vettel says.

[Blerpa]

Oh, yes, I think we can all agree the track is demented.
Only decent thing was the not-straight long straight which was interesting, but the rest was like a Macau race clone (google that if you don't know).

[FaultyMario]

Oh and lest I forget, the penalties for Force India and Ferrari... shouldn't Race Control have sent memos at the beginning of the season, or race weekend? That looked amateur, at least on Sky, none of the commentators were aware during the red flag period that Raikkonen and Perez were eventually going to get slapped with penalties.

Shameful stuff from race direction.

[IMOA]

But yeah, what Nate said. Terrible track, terrible play-calling from the referees. The slow getaway from hamilton / hissy fit from Vettel caught them totally offguard and the ensuing carnage can only pinned to race control.

While I agree that the track is crap when a driver drives into the back of someone because he's not paying attention and then intentionally pulls alongside and swerves into the side of the other car it's not race controls fault, it's the driver!

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, so what, when the Red Flag came, were Ferrari and FI supposed to do? Wheel their half repaired cars out into the pit lane to finish repairs?

[FaultyMario]

Exactly!

[Freude am Fahren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOI2It_W3No&feature=player_embedded&ab_channel=FORMULA1

HAM definitely slowed coming out of the corner. You can see his rev lights go from green+red (about full red) at entry, to green+3-4red at apex, to 3 green at exit. You can see Vettel's stays constant, maybe going from two green to one green. It wasn't really severe, but FIA's explanation of the data said he didn't slow is bullshit.

As for Vettel, he's absolutely at fault for the second hit, and IMO should be banned a race. He should have been DSQ from the race right there.

[dodint]

The idea, held here, that Vettel couldn't handle maintaining distance was more likely than Hamilton continuing to play games behind the SC is the reason I stopped discussing it. Can't debate with crazy.

[Blerpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOI2It_W3No&feature=player_embedded&ab_channel=FORMULA1

HAM definitely slowed coming out of the corner. You can see his rev lights go from green+red (about full red) at entry, to green+3-4red at apex, to 3 green at exit. You can see Vettel's stays constant, maybe going from two green to one green. It wasn't really severe, but FIA's explanation of the data said he didn't slow is bullshit.

As for Vettel, he's absolutely at fault for the second hit, and IMO should be banned a race. He should have been DSQ from the race right there.

Do you know that data on TV is ludicrous and just mainly for show, right? Do you know real telemetry is a total different thing, right? Do you know that thing show ON/OFF on acceleration and braking, and that means even a really light pass of the feet on the brake make that go red? Also, do you know you sound like a tin foiled casual race watcher coming out with this kind of conspiracy drivel?

Also, even just coasting on a F1 slows down a lot your speed when you are not going at 300kph.
May we also add that any leader behind SC at SC's returning to pits last moment is usally rubberbanding it and they never, ever, sanctioned anyone doing it ever since?

Also: marshals said Hamilton did nothing wrong and Vettel is at fault. Emanuele Pirro, distinguished race driver, many times at FIA's service as race examining board member, an italian no less so potentially biased towards Ferrari... said Hamilton did nothing wrong and Vettel is at fault.
Daniel Ricciardo, winner of the race, nowadays an expert F1 driver, who knows both Vettel and Hamilton very, very well, surely more than us, and surely knows racing more than us... said Hamilton did nothing wrong and Vettel is not only at fault but he is irresponsable and did an unacceptable thing.
Flavio Briatore, the loathed idiot, still someone that differently from anyone in here has been inside F1 and manage to make his team win races and championships, said Vettel was an idiot and was at fault.

So... let me see, all these people, inside racing, inside F1, able to see telemetry at vast leisure, able to see the two subjects in question in the track, to race them, give them their expert views and opinions on corroborated facts... but no, members of a forum resident in US with many nationalities, with no hope to go ever racing at any level (aside from Russ, Leon and Brian) but surely not to F1, beg to differ just because "No, I don't believe it"?
That's frankly crass and laughable.

[Freude am Fahren]

Uh, I was referring to the rev counter on the steering wheels. Are those just for show too? Did you even watch the video?

And like I said, I went back and watched the replay, and said it wasn't severe, as not a real brake check. But he did slow down through and more-so out of a corner.

I already agreed Vettel was at fault.

[FaultyMario]

I put Hamilton a step below Schumacher on two dimensions.

Schu was a more effective cheat. He'd fucking park it at rascasse, bitches be damned. He'd overtake by ramming, juniors be damned. Whereas Hamilton tries to play it down to "mental" games. Ruining Alonso's qualifying, exposing Button's setup, and running Rosberg off the road were cheating not psychological warfare, dude. Against your teammates, btw.

I also can't, for all the speed he's able to get out of one lap, see a hammertime lasting as long as Schumacher's legendary Hungarian stint.

Vettel Is not just short-fused, he lacks a fuse and a DNS would've been wonderful for us fans in the long run. Too bad Charlie's is also lacking something.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Gee guys, FaF was just saying Ham slowed down based on what he saw in the replay, not saying he's at fault. Whether on track or road, rear ending somebody is usually never the fault of the guy in front.

Anyway, Ayrton Senna was also great at ramming even senior teammate if championship is on the line.

Just glad nobody got hurt with these incidents, but it sure was interesting watching these sort of drama unfold on track!

[Blerpa]

Sorry, I misinterpreted, FaF.
Video was taken down by the time I clicked on it to watch it.
Since on every major italian forum people are harping about the stupid tv on screen acceleration and braking visuals... I thought you meant that. My bad.

[Drachen596]

So... when does the mandatory yellow speed limiter button get put into the cars?

Maybe its just me but i hate hate hate bullshit race restart games that get played in all the series. They just need a speed that they dont exceed and dont go slower than.

[Blerpa]

I could be ok with that, but... when does the yellow button or speed block gets off? At the moment they pass the start/finish line?

[Drachen596]

When the green is out.

[Crazed_Insanity]

But racers often need to hit the brakes to keep them warm... and accelerate hard to light up the tires. Forcing them to drive within certain speed may not help warm up the tires/brakes very well. While it is fairer to keep all racers in check the same way, but end result may be a lot more accidents during the restart of the race with colder tires and brakes.

Racers can often play 'games' during whatever color flags. Just let them play. Race officials just need to crack down hard when it's too out of control. I just don't think they need to micro-manage the drivers too much...

With regard to this particular incidence, sure, if it weren't Vettel/Ferrari, surely the penalty would've been a lot more than 10s penalty. Any rookie who does that will probably incur a career ending ban. Then again, no rookie would ever dare do anything like that. Personally, I thought the penalty was fairly appropriate. It was really heat of a moment stupid move. It was low speed. So it wasn't done with the intention to end Ham's race nor was it done for championship gains. It was just immature stupidity and lack of self control. However, it was a totally unnecessary move..., so it'd also still be fair if Vettel's DQed because of it.

Regardless of whether Ham played games and slowed down or not, if Vettel continued to be repentant about this type of behavior, I'd be all for harsher punishment.

[FaultyMario]

i hate hate hate bullshit race restart games that get played in all the series.
QFT

[Drachen596]

But racers often need to hit the brakes to keep them warm... and accelerate hard to light up the tires. Forcing them to drive within certain speed may not help warm up the tires/brakes very well. While it is fairer to keep all racers in check the same way, but end result may be a lot more accidents during the restart of the race with colder tires and brakes.

Racers can often play 'games' during whatever color flags. Just let them play. Race officials just need to crack down hard when it's too out of control. I just don't think they need to micro-manage the drivers too much...

With regard to this particular incidence, sure, if it weren't Vettel/Ferrari, surely the penalty would've been a lot more than 10s penalty. Any rookie who does that will probably incur a career ending ban. Then again, no rookie would ever dare do anything like that. Personally, I thought the penalty was fairly appropriate. It was really heat of a moment stupid move. It was low speed. So it wasn't done with the intention to end Ham's race nor was it done for championship gains. It was just immature stupidity and lack of self control. However, it was a totally unnecessary move..., so it'd also still be fair if Vettel's DQed because of it.

Regardless of whether Ham played games and slowed down or not, if Vettel continued to be repentant about this type of behavior, I'd be all for harsher punishment.

Okay. They can keep playing dumb games. I'll just keep not watching because of it.

[FaultyMario]

Actually sad to see Dennis say his goodbyes to the company he dedicated his best years.

Andrew Benson's take. (http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38000198)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Nice article! I didn't realize mclaren had plundered off of Williams so many times! Hats off to Frank Williams to manage to still be that successful.

Different era now... Both teams are in the dump.

[Kchrpm]

http://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/06/lewis-hamilton-accepts-sebastian-vettel-apology-utmost-respect/

Vettel


Initially reluctant to dwell on the matter, saying he did not want to "pump this up more than it is already", the Ferrari driver on Thursday repeated the written apology.

"It was the wrong move to drive alongside him and hit his tyres," he said.

"I don't think there was any bad intention (by Hamilton). I don't think he actually brake-tested me. I was upset and over-reacted. I am not proud of the moment."

Hamilton


"I still have the utmost respect for him as a driver and will continue to race him hard through the rest of the season," declared Hamilton, who said at the time that Vettel had "disgraced himself" by driving into him in Baku.

[dodint]

Clearly Vettel has had time to think of the children.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

[balki]

did someone drop the f-bomb and have it broadcast in the world feed? (K-Mag when his Hass gave out?)

really liked that the FIA posted Bottas and Vettel's reaction and 0-200 times, so far Liberty Media has done a good job of opening up F1 data and highlights a little more

[Freude am Fahren]

NBCSN post race mentioned MAG saying something they couldn't broadcast. Maybe he said it over the world feed while they were in commercial. I'm pretty sure I remember his retirement being during a break. FOM is usually pretty good and censoring them though.

[FaultyMario]

It came after the "do not attempt to switch gears" message from his engineer.

[dodint]

Kimi had some explicatives but they were bleeped.

Alonso compared his fellow drivers to bowlers.

[balki]

Kimi's bulls*** did get bleeped
Kyvat locked up approaching turn one and bowled into two cars. Basically looked like vintage first lap nutcase Grosjean antics

NBCSN post race mentioned MAG saying something they couldn't broadcast. Maybe he said it over the world feed while they were in commercial. I'm pretty sure I remember his retirement being during a break. FOM is usually pretty good and censoring them though.
I was watching the sister broadcast on UniMás, no commercial breaks (and free over-the-air), there was no bleep and could have sworn it was an f-bomb (commentators mentioned something, but couldn't understand them)

[Freude am Fahren]

I would hope they don't punish him any more than they would a normal swear over radio that happens all the time. That's on FOM if it made it through.

BTW, my newest Blipshift shirt should be here anytime now. It might be my Sunday shirt in Austin.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0166/4148/products/Gives_You_Wins_tee_6b625bbc-9bf7-4ad0-b7ab-f5730fcd96b0_large.png?v=1498443235

[FaultyMario]

I don't think Lewis is going to get his fourth this year.
He's become way too Millennial, short-term genius (he's capable of finding half a second on Bottas in Qualifying) that can't put on a grind to save his life.

[FaultyMario]

This makes my blood boil:


"There are days when I think [Kimi]'s a bit of a laggard (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor-f1-austria-ferrari-marchionne-idUKKBN19U0FT), but we'll see. I am going to talk to him today, we'll see what happens."

You must be a joy to work with, Sergio. If there's ever a war, call me I wanna be under your command.

Sure, dude's become a blunt object with age, but he has been using his bluntness for the team. And there's at least two races this season where he was the victim of the Ferrari random strategy machine.

[balki]

I'd say Kimi's the best #2 out there (which is the way Ferrari operates)
Ricciardo would be an improvement, but how well would that go over with Vettel?

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DENtch1XYAA2PRP.jpg

The abandoned part of the old österreichring, today known as Red Bull Ring. #osterreichring #redbullring #motorsp… http://ift.tt/2tsw7yl

[FaultyMario]

I'd say Kimi's the best #2 out there (which is the way Ferrari operates)
Ricciardo would be an improvement, but how well would that go over with Vettel?

I'd say Ricciardo is the best number one driver, as he has squandered no points out of those available to his team. He has had lows this season but i reckon they were team and not personal lows as opposed to Hamilton's or Vettel's.

I don't want to be too negative about Max but i think this season is going to break him. He has two weaknesses IMO; first, he is going thru a car breaker phase like the one Kimi saw in his McLaren years, he needs to learn to work a race with his engineers like Michael, Sebastian and Lewis did, early into their careers, I'm sure he'll learn that skill but he better learn it soon. The second weakness though, most people don't see it as such, because Jos has fought tooth and nail to present Max with the best opportunities, but he is doing it from the perspective of a driver who never lived up to his promise, I'm not sure that much cockiness about his son's potential is good. I see a career that mimics Kimi's, not one that yields multiple WDCs.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm not really sure how to rate Ricciardo still, obviously he's not bad, but is he one of the greats? I'd agree that he's way more resilient than Vettel and Max... and even Hamilton... I don't think we've ever seen him in any sort of 'personal' slump. However, I still hasn't seen any 'greatness' in him though. Ricciardo is obviously near the top of the list of the good drivers, but I just somehow don't see him on the list of the great drivers..., just my 2cents.

As for Max, if he had never won early on in his career and never show cased his talents in the wet and just entered into F1 in this particular season, I'd agree with you that this might break his career. However, I do believe Max, and his Dad, has already managed to successfully put him on the list of one of the greats so far. He is now currently more than 50points off of his teammate mostly due to factors out of his control. Hopefully this is character building period will only enhance his career later...

[FaultyMario]

For this season, in case clarification was needed, loco.


He is now currently more than 50points off of his teammate mostly due to factors out of his control. Hopefully this is character building period will only enhance his career later...

Those 62 points are more shocking when you consider the number of laps Max has spent ahead of Daniel in these 9 rounds. But I am of the belief that some of the factors that have caused him to DNF whilst in front were within his control.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, while I know sometimes it just is bad luck, a lot of times if you have a streak of it it might be something you're doing. It could be that he's running a setup that allows him to go faster but makes it more likely to make a mistake. Maybe he's more aggressive with the engine mapping in a way that might decrease reliability. It might not be any of those things, but there's always the chance that Ricciardo plays it more conservative knowing he's more likely to actually finish the race.

[Alan P]

With Max's retirement Honda get even further ahead of Red bull in laps completed so far this season.

Oh I forgot to say as well. I'm going to Silverstone!!! WHOOP! Will take many pictures.

[FaultyMario]

Sauber appoints ex-Renault Frederic Vasseur as team principal, might not be running Honda engines (https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sauber-honda-engine-deal-called-off-929575/amp/) next year.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyone know of any political in-fighting within Honda as well? Mclaren' troubles I can understand, but what the heck is going on with Honda? Both organizations definitely not what they used to be.

Or something is just off with their PU from before too? I'm beginning to wonder Brawn GPs championship win was not just because of double diffusers...

[Freude am Fahren]

Well, that and a Mercedes engine.

[FaultyMario]

Honda want to learn to build high output hybrid engines. F1 is not really the place for learning.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Nothing wrong with learning on the job. Hondas problem looks more like they have a learning problem. Something is impeding their progress.

[FaultyMario]

I don't think so, they've tried 3 pu arrangements in as many years.

They've lost some time and direction due to that stupid size zero crap.

That they don't get results in a highly specialized, highly competitive environment doesn't mean they're not getting relevant information for their business.

Their reputation is in the bathroom, though.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't know..., if they actually learned something, there should be some sort of progress. At the very minimum in the reliability front. For these past few years, I guess the only thing that they've learned is that their designs don't work so they'd scrap it and try something completely new again and again? I honestly wouldn't call that learning... creatively exploring maybe?

Anyway, something else must be going on that we just don't know. I can't believe they are still learning how not to breakdown before a race finishes after this many years.

[Kchrpm]

When things break it doesn't teach you that your idea doesn't work, it teaches you what a weak point is in the current implementation of your idea. You can keep chasing weak points until it does work, or you can decide there are too many weak points and you should try to start over.

[Crazed_Insanity]

When it comes to engineering, one can actually learn a lot more with a failure than with a success. Anyway, when something breaks, it doesn't work, whether it's just this weak link or the entire system. 1st order of business is to get the system to work! To be able to last the entire race and be able to deliver upgrades as promised. If you can't deliver something, don't promise! Only when there's some sort of reliability can you perhaps contemplating on winning/perfecting. Or at least allow Alonso to consistently challenge for poles with their current form of reliability... to give him some hope...

If you can't finish the race and can't deliver even the new parts as promised after so long, then they should just pack up and go home. Not just give up, but to figure out why they are such lousy engineers who can't design a part that can do the job and why they are overconfident at promising something that they can't deliver.

The entire organization must not be functioning properly, not just the PU.

[Freude am Fahren]

Finally got around to booking an airbnb for Austin. Been waiting to hear back from a friend if he and his family want to split a larger place, but I found one for me and my dad in a good location for a good price and grabbed it up. Can't wait.

http://i.imgur.com/7drHiqr.gif

[balki]

Vettel makes passing and being passed always interesting

overall a very good season with a lot happening the last few laps of races

[Freude am Fahren]

Pirelli always seems to have issues at Silverstone.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE2wUmkWsAEramt.jpg

https://twitter.com/wtf1official/status/886558597324394497

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE2_NUmWsAEKQzw.jpg

https://twitter.com/GvanderGarde/status/886574947673493505

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE3FtQSXYAEfzSd.jpg

Spot the Finns... #F1 #BritishGP (https://twitter.com/wtf1official/status/886582094469750788)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE3JEi-XgAAQ_Jc.jpg

They may be 'cold as ice' but even the Finns get bored easily. #F1 #WheresLewis (https://twitter.com/F1PaddockPass/status/886586000545337346)

[drew]

Watching Kimi in the transition room right after the race made me laugh.

"This is shit, fuck this"

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE43VSyXUAATSd5.jpg

Thanks to today's 'Tyrrell' win, Merc engines have now won more GPs than Cosworth's DFV – which scored its last win with, er, Tyrrell. ©LAT (https://twitter.com/henryhopefrost/status/886707084405952513)

[Alan P]

I was at Silverstone this weekend. And it was good.
https://imgur.com/gallery/j6eiM
https://imgur.com/gallery/QSM0e


https://youtu.be/AlNLPUI3i5I

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow, Hamilton really likes to get close to his fans, huh? ;)

[XHawkeye]

It was a privilege to spend time at @Stanford University yesterday. The studying opportunities interest me... (https://twitter.com/nico_rosberg/status/889061161676787712)

[FaultyMario]

Kubica confirmed by Renault for Young drivers' test after Hungarian GP.

[Freude am Fahren]

In a shocking move, looks like Sauber is backing out of Honda deal for next year.

I don't think we'll see Honda at all in 2018.

[Alan P]

In a shocking move, looks like Sauber is backing out of Honda deal for next year.

I don't think we'll see Honda at all in 2018.

If, as I've read, both Mercedes and Ferrari have declined to supply McLaren, they may not have much choice but to stick with Honda. If Honda decide to leave it will be a major 'egg on face' moment and will really leave McLaren up the creek without a Carbon Fibre paddle. Only Renault could conceivably supply an Engine and I'm not sure Red Bull would like that very much.

[FaultyMario]

Both Mercedes and Ferrari are enjoying Mclaren's woes.

[FaultyMario]

I am very pleased to confirm that we will continue to work with Scuderia Ferrari as our engine supplier in form of a multi-year agreement

2 Characters.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wonder what McLaren will do.

Might as well just risk one more year with Honda..., maybe there'll be a turn around.

Can McLaren Honda ever be a huge success again without Ron Dennis, and the likes of Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost?

Given that UK is banning IC engines in 2040, maybe McLaren should just quit F-1 and enter F-E and forget about all the engine manufacturers who refuse to play nice with them... ;)

[Alan P]

Wonder what McLaren will do.

Might as well just risk one more year with Honda..., maybe there'll be a turn around.

Can McLaren Honda ever be a huge success again without Ron Dennis, and the likes of Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost?

Given that UK is banning IC engines in 2040, maybe McLaren should just quit F-1 and enter F-E and forget about all the engine manufacturers who refuse to play nice with them... ;)

I really can't see McLaren quitting F1. It was their sole business for decades and still remains one of their major businesses. Would the McLaren Road cars have been such a success, and continue to be a success without the F1 team? Surely part of the draw of the McLaren road cars is the F1 link? At least to some people anyway.

[FaultyMario]

They will lose Alonso, they will also renegotiate with more stringent performance objectives and penalties for no-comply.

[Alan P]

Massa has declared himself unwell and won't take part in qualifying or the race. Paul Di Resta will complete the weekend as Williams reserve driver. Although he hasn't driven the car he's done extensive sim work, sits in at briefings and won a recent DTM race at the track earlier this year. Will be interesting to see how he goes.

[Crazed_Insanity]

They will lose Alonso, they will also renegotiate with more stringent performance objectives and penalties for no-comply.
Alonso is in similar boat..., where's he gonna go? Will Mercedes really want to repeat mclarens earlier mistake and team up with Alonso when bottas' doing so well? Ferrari and red bull also don't look available...

It'll really suck if Alonso leaves and the suddenly you see mclaren Honda improve... ;)

If they don't improve, how many seasons do you think they can remain/survive in f1 as the last place team?

Weird/interesting times in f1.

[FaultyMario]

Alonso can do whatever he wants. He is very sought-after. He could take a LM/I500/D24/NR24 year and be ready for 2019 when most contracts are up.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I think there's a good chance he'll try to win them all next year if he's stuck with unreliable Honda engine again...

[The359]

I'd say Alonso's Le Mans dreams have kind of walked away now that Porsche is gone.

[balki]

Kimi telling his team over the radio that Paul di Resta should get back in the commentary box after the blue flags
:lol:
Kimi not allowed to pass Vettel on track or through pit strategy :/

[Blerpa]

Well, it paid off, but that must have been terrible for Kimi... I did not believe Hamilton was going to give back position to Bottas, could have been so risky and yet...
Top performance by Alonso. Dear lord, give that engine 40HP+ and McLaren would be up there, surely over Red Bull.

[FaultyMario]

Max is done for the season. He lost this race.

[Freude am Fahren]

That painting in Parc Ferme :lol:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/a105om5kv44ctr7fs9ka.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Guess he's happy with his fastest lap over the weekend.

Maybe things are beginning to turn up?

[Freude am Fahren]

Nah, just a suitable track. It's kind alike Monaco without walls. He said they should see some good results in Singapore as well.

[Godson]

Did anyone hear what Kimi said in the post race room?

[FaultyMario]

No but red bull were the only team who had a set of new super softs for each of it's drivers.

They had the car, they had position and strategic advantage and wunderkind had to fuck it up.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, Daniel was prophetic about not making any friends... ;)

Was really hoping for a good showing from RB... Oh well...

[Godson]

No but red bull were the only team who had a set of new super softs for each of it's drivers.

They had the car, they had position and strategic advantage and wunderkind had to fuck it up.

I was sick of him by Russia last year. Kid has skill, but he is in way to many collisions to not be an issue.

[Freude am Fahren]

Anyone else see KMag tell Hulk to 'suck my balls'

:lol:

[Reynard]

Yep and I loved it! Sometimes I feel sorry for Kevin as he really should've been racing in the 60's & 70's. He would be right at home then.

[FaultyMario]

Ferrari announces that Scuderia Ferrari has renewed its technical and racing agreement with Kimi Raikkonen, the Finnish driver will therefore race for the Maranello team in the 2018 Formula One world championship.

Or as the onscreen graphics on GP broadcasts read, no further action taken.

[CudaMan]

Who is Kimi's agent? I want him.

[FaultyMario]

Serious? (http://www.markblundellpartners.com/contact/)

[CudaMan]

I don't see him in the clients list.

Realistically though I wouldn't make enough money for him/her to be interested in a cut.

[FaultyMario]

Blundell's agency moved him into the Ferrari seat, maybe they've parted ways or he is unlisted.

Neither Defourny nor Blomqvist have a ton of sponsors. ;)

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIPO_vXWAAE1qAT.jpg

Meanwhile at Eau Rouge. #BelgianGP #F1 (https://twitter.com/GvanderGarde/status/901791951820861440)

[FaultyMario]

Fred's last F1 races?
Pérez back or verstappen in a McLaren?
Hamilton's to lose?

[balki]

Spa is a Mercedes track and Ferrari was close behind.
After Monza, Ferrari easily should outscore Mercedes the rest of the way (doesn't mean that they'll make up for the gap that already exists in the constructors)
The driver's championship is Vettel's to lose.

Kimi clearly blew the double yellow

[JoeW]

I like Bottas and Hamilton and wish no ill will on anyone but I would love to see Verstappen in a reliable, fast car like Mercedes or Ferrari. Bottas is doing a great job but Verstappen...well, he just deserves a better car. Somehow Ricciardo hasn't had any serious reliability problems.

[JoeW]

And to reply to balki, I think it's clear that Hamilton is faster than Vettel under most conditions considering he has seven poles to Vettels two.

But there are always other factors that come into play that ruin races. Debris, avoiding on track incidents and other things. But I think that taking out all the bad luck incidents...Hamilton is just a little faster. So if there were no more on track problems Hamilton should win.

But F1 is unpredictable that way :)

[JoeW]

Surprised Alonso still has a job btw. They way he bad mouths his employers is uncalled for. Plenty of other great drivers out there who are better ambassadors for their equipment.

[Blerpa]

Hamilton is a better all around driver than Vettel. But the german comes close, same as Alonso (which is better than Vettel in racecraft, FOR SURE). Raikkonen behind. Then far behind that lucky kid called Rosberg; after Verstappen and Ricciardo too.

[CudaMan]

Rosberg held a candle to Hamilton better than Bottas is doing. By now Bottas should be hitting his stride with the Mercedes car I should think. I don't dislike Bottas but I'd like to see his seat go to a Verstappen or Alonso (I know, that one's not happening) or Ricciardo.

[JoeW]

Well Bottas is exactly the kind of driver you want as your teammate. Hamilton would not like the decision to bring in Verstappen for obvious reasons. If you thought there were issues between Rosberg and Hamilton...haha.

But I think Verstappen deserves a better ride and I hope he goes to Mercedes next year. It would be the beginning of the end for Hamiltons reign I think.

[FaultyMario]

Had written a bullet pointed response to the weekend.
Got erased while switching windows on Android.

What i remember from that long post is the conclusion that Pérez came out the winner against Ocon. That was an easy pass that Ocon wouldn't have effed up had he waited for the straight. There should be some comfort for Perez in knowing that even after a 5s penalty he was able to stay ahead of his closest rival.

[JoeW]

That team has such a fast car right now...too bad the drivers are asshats.

[FaultyMario]

Just watched the Formula1 upload in youtube.

Second clash in Belgium was 95% Ocon's fault. He never had a chance to go thru there.

[FaultyMario]

That team has such a fast car right now...

They're in a league of their own, they're much slower than RB and Williams are not a threat.

[JoeW]

But occasionally they really pull off some great times. But I think with better team unity and positive attitude I bet they would sometimes rival RB.

[Freude am Fahren]

Just watched the Formula1 upload in youtube.

Second clash in Belgium was 95% Ocon's fault. He never had a chance to go thru there.

:twitch:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not sure how I'd assess blame with Perez and Ocon's touch in the beginning... I'd chalk it up to racing incident.

You can't really say such 3 wide move can never be done. Ricciardo, Bottas and Kimi pulled it off, but of course Bottas was clearly more concerned with finishing the race rather than staying in front. If Bottas was as aggressive and unyielding as Perez, surely there'd be some sort of collision. Then perhaps one could blame Kimi for being overly optimistic..., but that's what racers do!

[FaultyMario]

:twitch:

Yeah, dude. Ocon's front wing never went past Perez's rear axle, it was a hail Mary from Ocon.

And I don't even root for Perez, he's of the unlikable sort of Mexican celebrity. My season's sentimental eggs were in Sauber's basket, but it was poor form how they got rid of Monisha. I kind of like Haas but just can't swallow either of their drivers, Williams is in the loo and Torro Rosso is kind of like Haas: a charismatic team with 2 pills for drivers. I'm an F1 orphan.

[Alan P]

OK, so the only manufacturer that haven't shut McLaren down almost immediately is Renault. Now that they have their own works team will McLaren be happy going back to a customer team? Ron previously said you can't win anything as a customer even though Paddy Lowe has said he sees no reason why a customer team can't win a championships but I think that's just words to keep morale up at Williams. The last truly customer team that won a championship? Not Brawn, that was Honda's money the previous season. Red Bull? Perhaps their first championship but while Renault had no team of their own they were the de facto works team and even before that had a budget similar to a works team. You could be going back to Schumacher at Benetton or perhaps even earlier. Possibly twenty years or more. Villeneuve at Williams Renault perhaps.

Regarding Alonso it appears he's had an offer from Sauber which he turned down immediately. Williams are apparently interested but will really need to step up next season. They've been left behind in the development race and that's without Alonso's monster pay packet. Fernando would need a significant pay cut, likely 50% or more to move. I can't see that happening unless Alonso believes they'll be fighting for points regularly which, going by previous seasons, might be the case at the start of the season but they've historically dropped away as the season has progressed and have been out-developed by Force India. If Perez or Ocon do end up elsewhere FI might be a decent shout for Fernando but again the massive pay cut comes into effect and Perez brings a fair chunk of sponsorship with him. Renault apparently want Ocon as well I've heard.

So: (unconfirmed/my thoughts in brackets)

Mercedes: Hamilton & Bottas (expect announcement soon)
Ferrari: Vettel & Raikkonnen
Red Bull: Ricciardo & Verstappen
Force India: Perez & (Ocon/A N Other) nothing heard about Alonso going here but it wouldn't be a bad thing, atm they have the fourth best car
Williams: (Massa/Alonso) & Stroll
Renault: Hulk & (Sainz/Ocon)
Toro Rosso: Gasly & Kyvat (somehow)
Haas: Magnussen & Grosjean (who still seems to think he's under consideration by Ferrari. Newsflash Romain, you're not)
McLaren (with Honda IMO) Vandoorne & (Alonso)
Sauber: Ericcson & (Leclerc)

[JoeW]

Alonso and Grosjean (to a lesser extent) just complain too damn much about their equipment. I hate that shit. Verstappen, who should be complaining, because he's 19 and his shit keeps breaking down, isn't. That speaks volumes about his maturity at such a young age.

I'd really like to see Verstappen in a competitive car next season. With the right situation, like Schumacher had with Ferrari (and similarly Hamilton with Mercedes), he could break some records.

Perez/Ocon is just pure entertainment for everyone, unless you happen to be behind them when the shit hits the fan. One took the other's wing off, then the other retailiated. Lame.

Renault looks strong at times. Would love to see them get it together. Force India looks great...until the idiot drivers get in the cars. Toro Rosso...how does Kvyat still have a job?

K...done for now.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIZDDUEXcAAxmsc.jpg

#CanAm Mid-Ohio 1980 #67 Nelkin Racing Lola T530, #Chevrolet V8, 5000 cc Driven by: Robert J. Nelkin (P3)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITpZMCXgAAdrIN.jpg

Mario @ Jarama '79

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIN3kYMW4AAKp9L.jpg

German Grand Prix, Ronnie Peterson, March 711, (1971)

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, dude. Ocon's front wing never went past Perez's rear axle, it was a hail Mary from Ocon.

But it was a straight. With a wall on the side. You have to make sure you are clear of the car before moving over. That's not even blocking, it's intentional wrecking.

[Blerpa]

Perez was at fault in the Ocon's accident, even UK and italian tv commentators said that (Watched live the english stream, then the italian delay showing).
In F1 it is in bad form to squeeze someone in a sidewall... every time it happens the squeezer is rightfully blamed.
This ain't, and should never be, bloody touring cars, especially if we are talking team mates.

I call bollocks on Rosberg being that good. He got Damon Hill lucky, Hamilton was just sloppy and couldn't recover enough points in the end.

Alonso, Vettel, Raikkonen, Villeneuve, Senna, Irvine, Prost, Piquet, Hamilton, Lauda, Stewart, Fittipaldi and more... vocal drivers, easy to be pissed if they didn't get what the wanted or manipulative enough to get things done their ways; so enough talk about complainers, most of the times champions are egotistical self-centered bastards full of charisma and/or exuberant talent, and in past eras we just didn't have radio talks to experience it (but I suggest to read the old interviews and chronicles too).
Guys like Button or Hakkinen do happens too, but let's get over with this.

Alonso, unless going to Renault, is fucked. Williams? They don't have money to pay him, and no guarantees they will make a fast enough car for him (as things stand McLaren could very well have a quicker car next year, even if remaining with Honda).
Force India paying Alonso? That would take an herculean task with finances as well.

If Vandoorne gets burned McLaren can always bring in Lando Norris. Fuck the noise of Sainz at McLaren.
Ferrari will place Leclerc at Sauber and will be ready to turn Giovinazzi around somewhere (maybe even at Sauber after Leclerc gets in the main team): the french will be Kimi' substitute and the italian his companion once Vettel will retire or in any case Vettel will jump ship to Mercedes or wherever he could go after the next three years.
Ocon deserves a lot of chances, he has proved a worthy driver, Perez still unconfirmed to me, Magnussen and Kyvat soon on the way out of F1.
Werhlein is wasting his talent and soon will find himself out of a seat if he doesn't advertise himself more.
Ericsson who? The ghost of F1. No one is more transparent than him.

[Alan P]

Ericsson's sponsors are the team owners. I can't see him going anywhere. if anything there's talk of Wehrlein going back to DTM. He just hasn't consistently impressed at manor or Sauber IMO. From Mercedes big hope he's now behind Ocon who appears to be the real deal.

Ferrari haven't had an Italian driver in two decades or there about's Blerpa. Will they have Giovanazzi? he didn't impress by binning the Sauber not once but twice. I'm not convinced but I am sure Kimi won't be at Ferrari in 2019. In fact I'm going to say he shouldn't be there next year either but he's the safe option and Seb's bitch who lobbied hard for him to stay. He'll always do Vettel's and the teams bidding. Hungary when he was told to stay behind Seb when he could have passed easily saw to that. Not sure it'll be Leclerc unless he massively impresses in the Sauber next year. It's too soon after one season to drive for Ferrari. maybe a move to Haas if they're still beating Sauber regularly.

[Blerpa]

Leclerc is the next big thing, kinda like Hamilton coming to F1... I can't believe you are doubting it. Have you seen any F2 races lately?
Leclerc is acclaimed internationally, Giovinazzi is acclaimed nationally and his time at Sauber has been deemed very good (not *that* good to me, but...).
Yes, Ferrari could have an italian driver (actually... Fisichella, you know...).

Truly, people, do you read and follow the various journos in the field? Sometimes feels like you are talking about, and watching, another sport.
"It's too soon after one season to drive for Ferrari" cue Kimi Raikkonen straight to McLaren - which was THE top team back then - after just F3 and a season at Sauber. Or Vettel quick journey to a Redbull seat. Or... bloody Hamilton put on a McLaren on debut?
Fuck Haas, fuck lowly teams... get the guy almost right away on board. This ain't Fangio F1, must get quick to profit from talents.

EDIT: Alonso is fucked. Just today news on motorsport.com: Both Renault and Williams has said no to the spaniard. Rumors have it Stroll vetoed Alonso on one of Frank's cars - I'm not going to stop laughing any time soon.

[Alan P]

Leclerc is the next big thing, kinda like Hamilton coming to F1... I can't believe you are doubting it. Have you seen any F2 races lately?
Leclerc is acclaimed internationally, Giovinazzi is acclaimed nationally and his time at Sauber has been deemed very good (not *that* good to me, but...).
Yes, Ferrari could have an italian driver (actually... Fisichella, you know...).

Truly, people, do you read and follow the various journos in the field? Sometimes feels like you are talking about, and watching, another sport.
"It's too soon after one season to drive for Ferrari" cue Kimi Raikkonen straight to McLaren - which was THE top team back then - after just F3 and a season at Sauber. Or Vettel quick journey to a Redbull seat. Or... bloody Hamilton put on a McLaren on debut?
Fuck Haas, fuck lowly teams... get the guy almost right away on board. This ain't Fangio F1, must get quick to profit from talents.

EDIT: Alonso is fucked. Just today news on motorsport.com: Both Renault and Williams has said no to the spaniard. Rumors have it Stroll vetoed Alonso on one of Frank's cars - I'm not going to stop laughing any time soon.

OK, an Italian driver who stands a chance of winning? :D

I don't think Ferrari have ever taken someone who only has one season under his belt in F1? They do seem to like seasoned drivers.

[FaultyMario]

But it was a straight. With a wall on the side. You have to make sure you are clear of the car before moving over. That's not even blocking, it's intentional wrecking.

You know, not the short kinky straight, the long one after the Raidillon.



29 From Esteban Ocon - Guys why did you pit him before?
29 To Esteban Ocon - He had a five-second penalty so he shouldn’t have got you.
29 From Esteban Ocon - No but honestly.
29 To Esteban Ocon - So stick with him, you’ve got fresher tyres, get him on the straight.

Emphasis mine.

[FaultyMario]

Hey Seb, I don't think sprezzatura means what you think it means. (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/XPB_901224_HiRes.jpg)

[Blerpa]

Sprezzatura is an old italian word rarely used anymore: it means to have a particular superior distance from others, with an apparent natural stance.
Or did you mean "Spazzatura"? ;)

[Blerpa]

Paddock news: Ricciardo was considered for Raikkonen's seat at Ferrari but someone in the Ferrari management didn't like the idea and, anyway, Vettel's entourage did put their veto on it.
Werlhein could go back to DTM... too bad Mercedes is going to leave DTM in 2018. So either they shift him to Formula E or he is pretty done with big series.

[FaultyMario]

And Honda has confirmed they will use Alonso's power unit from Belgium in Italy.

Which not only confirms there was no technical issue leading to his retirement but also that zero fucks were given by them to Alonso's "Honda or me" ultimatum currently being reported in gossip columns.

[FaultyMario]

Sprezzatura is an old italian word rarely used anymore: it means to have a particular superior distance from others, with an apparent natural stance.
Or did you mean "Spazzatura"? ;)

It's often used in fashion to mean "studied carelessness".
Which is in turn used when speaking about Italian style in men's.

[Blerpa]

Oh, I didn't know about Sprezzatura in that way. Very intriguing. So it's a rework of an old word.

McLaren is still debating if keeping Honda or not, whatever Alonso's concerns may be.

[JoeW]

As likable as Ricciardo is...Vettel does not want someone who may be faster than him so of course his camp would say no to that idea. If Mercedes approached Hamilton for his thoughts on Verstappen I'm sure his answer would be no preceded by fuck.

That's why you don't ask your drivers how many fucks they give about potential hirings ;)

[Alan P]

Ferrari have, for a very long time, always preferred a number one and number two. In that definite order. And the number one usually has a big say, if not an absolute veto in who they hire. It could even come down to Vettel saying 'If you sign Ricciardo I'm not signing on again' but Daniel wouldn't go to Ferrari and toe the line as number 2 anyway.

Although I haven't heard anything new recently I'm not convinced Renault are that keen on the idea of supplying McLaren and potentially getting beaten by them. The Red bull is, to the general, not-too-knowledgeable fan, a TAG Heuer so is excusable. A McLaren-Renault beating the works team isn't so good. McLaren-Nissan? Honda would absolutely love that!

While I do want to see McLaren up and the sharp end again I'd be sorry to see Honda go, tails between their legs. It's likely they might not come back for a very long time, if ever after this which would be a shame.

[Blerpa]

Await also for a possible incredible comeback: Porsche back in F1. With McLaren. Although it could not be once again a Tag-Porsche brand, obviously.
McLaren has done quick stints back in the past: 1993 with Ford, 1994 with abysmal Peugeot engines and from 1995 to 2014 with Mercedes-Benz... so, it could happen, unfortunately right now it is not anymore a top team.

[Freude am Fahren]

I can haz BMW back in F1 please?

:)

[dodint]

I'm still mad at BMW for that.

[Reynard]

Although I haven't heard anything new recently I'm not convinced Renault are that keen on the idea of supplying McLaren and potentially getting beaten by them. The Red bull is, to the general, not-too-knowledgeable fan, a TAG Heuer so is excusable.

If that's true, then why can't the Macca have an French Omega or Rolex powerplant then? ;)

[Reynard]

Alonso is fucked.

He is only fucked if he thinks he's going to earn another F1 driver's title. Otherwise he can race wherever he wants to. It's completely up to him though... as is the situation he's in now, it's all his own doing.

[FaultyMario]

I think he won't race in F1 next year. Maybe 2019, but he needs to lower his salary expectations.

[MR2 Fan]

If that's true, then why can't the Macca have an French Omega or Rolex powerplant then? ;)

McLaren Omega sounds good

[FaultyMario]

What does Vettel mean when he says that wet and dry Setups no longer exist?

Anyone?

[Alan P]

What does Vettel mean when he says that wet and dry Setups no longer exist?

Anyone?

Thanks to Parc Ferme rules they can't change much on a car from qualifying to race day and previously setups lifted the car by a couple of inches whereas now the tyres do that thanks to the extra tread AFAIK.

[FaultyMario]

Got it.

Thanks, mate.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIuxfPHWsAAiQEU.jpg

Waiting for The Honda engine to improve!!! #ItalianGP2017 #ItalianGP #F1 #F1Monza #F1

[Blerpa]

I summarize an article that came out today on the italian version of motorsport.com:

McLaren will rescind the contract with Honda and get engines from Renault (which has said already it cannot power more than 4 actual F1 teams).
Honda will go power, for free, Toro Rosso giving a 40mil per year of sponsorship (the same Red Bull is yearly paying Toro Rosso to clinge 5th place in constructor standings - and failing to do so), putting there one of its protege japanese drivers, either Matsushita or Fukuzumi, to be a teammate to Gasly, the next driver on the Faenza team.

Red Bull, as a company, will be obviously less involved in Toro Rosso from now on.
Kyvat is probably out of F1, Sainz - as compensation for Toro Rosso rescinding the engine deal with Renault 1 year early - will be free from Red Bull ties and will be rotated to Renault to partnership Hulkenberg; Palmer is out, fuck that Kubica noise (Williams could be onto him, though... just paddock rumours).
McLaren would so retain Alonso, and Vandoorne, with a 2-3 engine deal with Renault.
Also McLaren, during this weekend big meetings between teams, Honda, Renault and FIA observers, tried to veto a possible future Honda furniture to Red Bull main team, but that veto failed to come to life.

The Woking team is also awaiting Porsche possible entry in F1 in 2021, when FIA rules could push to simpler, and cheaper, bi-turbo V6 blocks *without* MGU-H.
Williams could be very well interested in the Stuttgart manufacturer entrance as well.
Massa is leaving Williams next year: the candidates for Stroll's teammate are Werhlein, Kubica (sic) and Perez.

Force India is trying to do everything possible to retain both Ocon and Perez, but here there are more complications: Mercedes would like to see Ocon moving to Renault (but he could have his way barred by confirmed Hulkenberg and Sainz replacing Palmer), so that its other protege, Werhlein could replace him at the indian team (but Williams could suffice to move Pascal around), Perez is not really happy with his situation in the team and with his teammate.
Also FI has stated it is interested in Max Verstappen.

There, I hope I didn't leave anything else out of it.

[Freude am Fahren]

Why would Mercedes want to send Ocon to Renault?? I get they want Werhlein in a better car, but I wouldn't give up Ocon for that.

[Blerpa]

Why would Mercedes want to send Ocon to Renault?? I get they want Werhlein in a better car, but I wouldn't give up Ocon for that.

Because it is a work team, and alliances between makers are important in a series where you need a lot of political leverage.
Also Ocon is french and that would be a plus for Renault, for obvious reasons. But Sainz...

[The359]

Why would Porsche join F1? They're leaving WEC because it's too expensive.

[Drachen596]

maybe just engines? Full factory team didnt work for Aston although that was a while ago.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DI4jIEPW4AA39MP.jpg

[Blerpa]

Why would Porsche join F1? They're leaving WEC because it's too expensive.

Indeed. They are getting into Formula E, and possibly consider F1 if costs are lower, so they are basically on the fence about the 2021 rule changes. WEC was expensive and didn't earn much visibility returns, compared to F1.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIz1GMEV4AAtuut.jpg

Mercedes won and nobody cares #italianGP (https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/904367116865781760)

[JoeW]

At least they didn't boo. The Italian F1 fans appreciate the sport on a deeper level than most. They just "get it".

I will say that I don't think Vettel will have the championship lead again this season. If the best they could manage is 3rd at their home track then the outlook does not look good.

[Blerpa]

Actually they did boo, at Hamilton, quite loudly.
So much that half the motorsport journos - at least not the ones brown nosing Ferrari daily - did find it distasteful and not proper for real racing fans.

[XHawkeye]

McLaren and Honda are set for either the messiest of divorces or the most uncomfortable of continued marriages. McLaren hopes that in the next few days it can confirm it has split with its engine partner of the last three years and arranged a supply of engines from Renault Sport for 2018.

But there are many complications. Since the last column on this subject – when Honda’s discussions with Red Bull for a supply to Toro Rosso had stalled – it looked like there was no alternative for McLaren but Honda. Having Honda supply Toro Rosso was, and remains, essential for McLaren’s Renault alternative to happen because Renault is simply not geared up to supply four teams. “We are open to the idea of supplying either Toro Rosso or McLaren,” said Renault special advisor Alain Prost at Monza, “but it is impossible for us to supply both. Also, I would point out that we do not expect to be able to supply a winning engine as early as next year and for a driver of Fernando Alonso’s stature, that might be a problem.”

The problems extend further than just whether McLaren can convince its star driver to stay around. Essentially, this boils down to who will pay – and how much. In addition to providing engines, Honda contributes £100 million per year to McLaren’s budget. While McLaren says it can forgo that, Red Bull initially played hardball in negotiations and is believed to have asked for a similar contribution to Toro Rosso’s budget. Although it’s the junior team in the Red Bull stable, Toro Rosso costs Red Bull’s owner Dietrich Mateschitz more money than the senior team because it receives nothing like as much external commercial backing. The idea of an extra £100 million was very appealing. Honda baulked at this and negotiations collapsed. They have recently been re-opened – and Liberty’s Ross Brawn and FIA President Jean Todt were both involved in the discussions between Honda, Red Bull and McLaren over the Monza weekend. Red Bull continues to ask for a significant budget contribution for a Toro Rosso supply and Honda continues to value such a partnership at less than Red Bull is asking for. Red Bull has – perhaps mischievously – suggested that if Honda won’t pay what it is asking for, then perhaps McLaren might contribute!

Honda’s preference is very much to stay with McLaren. McLaren’s is very much to split with Honda after three disastrous seasons. It has simply lost the faith.

But for Red Bull there is a logic beyond just the monetary considerations. It has long been dissatisfied with the motors provided by Renault. Honda is receiving help from a group of engineers from outside (ostensibly Ilmor, but including engineers who have worked on the standard-setting Mercedes motor) and there’s realistic hope that it will eventually produce a competitive motor. Should this become evident in the back of the Toro Rosso, it would seem a relatively simple matter to switch the supply over to the senior Red Bull team at some stage in the future.

As for McLaren, although there is a mechanism where a team without an engine has to be supplied by one of the remaining manufacturers should Honda pull out, the FIA has to be notified by a certain deadline – which has already passed. So it is Honda, Renault – or nothing. The prospect of it ending up by default with a Mercedes or Ferrari in the back has gone. If it cannot convince Honda to leave, thereby making it impossible to take up a Renault supply, what alternative does it have?

There is a ‘nuclear option’ – to pull out of F1. But that is complicated by the fact that the team is contracted to F1 until the end of 2020.

Something big is about to happen. But until the money is sorted, no one knows exactly what.

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/mclarens-renewed-renault-engine-chase

[JoeW]

Aww wow. I couldn't hear it on the NBCSN telecast. I was thinking wow these fans are great.

Well I retract my earlier comment on the basis of pure ignorance!

[Alan P]

I summarize an article that came out today on the italian version of motorsport.com:

McLaren will rescind the contract with Honda and get engines from Renault (which has said already it cannot power more than 4 actual F1 teams).
Honda will go power, for free, Toro Rosso giving a 40mil per year of sponsorship (the same Red Bull is yearly paying Toro Rosso to clinge 5th place in constructor standings - and failing to do so), putting there one of its protege japanese drivers, either Matsushita or Fukuzumi, to be a teammate to Gasly, the next driver on the Faenza team.

Red Bull, as a company, will be obviously less involved in Toro Rosso from now on.
Kyvat is probably out of F1, Sainz - as compensation for Toro Rosso rescinding the engine deal with Renault 1 year early - will be free from Red Bull ties and will be rotated to Renault to partnership Hulkenberg; Palmer is out, fuck that Kubica noise (Williams could be onto him, though... just paddock rumours).
McLaren would so retain Alonso, and Vandoorne, with a 2-3 engine deal with Renault.
Also McLaren, during this weekend big meetings between teams, Honda, Renault and FIA observers, tried to veto a possible future Honda furniture to Red Bull main team, but that veto failed to come to life.

The Woking team is also awaiting Porsche possible entry in F1 in 2021, when FIA rules could push to simpler, and cheaper, bi-turbo V6 blocks *without* MGU-H.
Williams could be very well interested in the Stuttgart manufacturer entrance as well. I don't see Porsche and McLaren joining forces in F1. They're direct competitors in fast road cars and Porsche will be worried that any success will be McLaren's rather than Porsche's. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but it's unlikely.
Massa is leaving Williams next year: the candidates for Stroll's teammate are Werhlein, Kubica (sic) and Perez. This is the only one I definitely can't see. Wehrlein has done nothing of note whatsoever and I heard he may be rotated back to DTM. Perez might be an option but I don't think Force will want rid as he brings significant sponsorship from Mexico. If Williams keep Stroll as expected they still need a driver over 25 for Martini promotional duties. Wehrlein isn't old enough, Kubica is, but I suspect he'll get a test/reserve driver role at Renault. This leads to a certain question about who will be at Williams. Massa will go, for real this time, leaving Williams needing someone over 25. I'm just not sure who!

Force India is trying to do everything possible to retain both Ocon and Perez, but here there are more complications: Mercedes would like to see Ocon moving to Renault (but he could have his way barred by confirmed Hulkenberg and Sainz replacing Palmer), so that its other protege, Werhlein could replace him at the indian team (but Williams could suffice to move Pascal around), Perez is not really happy with his situation in the team and with his teammate. a difficult one for Force. Ocon is clearly a great driver and potential future star at Mercedes themselves. Perez, as above, brings significant sponsorship from Mexico. a difficult situation for Force!
Also FI has stated it is interested in Max Verstappen.

There, I hope I didn't leave anything else out of it.

My thoughts above

[Blerpa]

Yeah, Alan I quite agree with you on the problems Williams will face, and Force India too. I only summarized all the news and rumours around the paddock.
Werhlein hasn't impressed me at all this season, same with Ericsson and that Palmer tosser. Ocon is the best of the young drivers so far, to me.
Porsche with McLaren is very difficult to happen... could actually happen with Williams, as they have already a technical partnership of sort.

Also, if McLaren jumps ship to Renault... who's going to produce the Honda's engine gearbox? AFAIK, McLaren uses an homemade gearbox for the Honda engine (and usually it is working seamlessly); are they going to manufacture it for Honda if the japanese will supply Toro Rosso? Is McLaren going to keep engineering its own gearbox or get a Renault one with french engines? Mysteries.

[FaultyMario]

As a fan I don't want Alonso in F1 anymore. Too much drama, baggage... too much Flavio.

[Alan P]

Yeah, Alan I quite agree with you on the problems Williams will face, and Force India too. I only summarized all the news and rumours around the paddock.
Werhlein hasn't impressed me at all this season, same with Ericsson and that Palmer tosser. Ocon is the best of the young drivers so far, to me.
Porsche with McLaren is very difficult to happen... could actually happen with Williams, as they have already a technical partnership of sort.

Also, if McLaren jumps ship to Renault... who's going to produce the Honda's engine gearbox? AFAIK, McLaren uses an homemade gearbox for the Honda engine (and usually it is working seamlessly); are they going to manufacture it for Honda if the japanese will supply Toro Rosso? Is McLaren going to keep engineering its own gearbox or get a Renault one with french engines? Mysteries.

This was one of the major sticking points apparently. Toro Rosso use Renault gearboxes AFAIK (Makes sense, although RBR could make their own and supply TR I guess) but they may not want to produce their own gearbox and may not know how to. McLaren to manufacture a gearbox only good for 150 miles so TR retire with gearbox issues every race? :)

[Blerpa]

Just in: Sainz reached deal with Renault, he will be teammates with Hulkenberg in 2018, but could jump in the seat as soon as this month Malaysian GP! Palmer is out!
Gasly will replace Sainz alongside Kyvat at Toro Rosso.
McLaren will get Renault customer engines in 2018, while Honda will supply Toro Rosso, pay 40mil/year to the italian team and Matsushita will replace Sainz for 2018, while getting released from his McLaren development driver title.
The japanese thogh still not have enough points in his superlicense to be able to race in F1: either he ends F2 season with loads of point or something else will have to be concocted.

ALSO... Toro Rosso will get a supply of McLaren gearboxes (!!!) to use with the Honda engines.
All announcements will be made next week at Singapore.

[samoht]

^ sounds good.

Palmer is a bit embarassing, time to give someone else a go.

McLaren Honda is a lot embarassing, the TR swap makes sense for all concerned.

I'd love a *good* Japanese F1 driver to appear, but I won't hold my breath sadly.

[FaultyMario]

The end of the Sainz's hype train. Not because Renault are bad, but because Hulk is going to mop the floor with him.

[balki]

so, does this all mean Alonso is to stay at McLaren?

If Sainz jumps ship this year Hulk will outperform him, but Sainz is two points up as of now, in what I can't see as being a superior car. No matter what he'll be an improvement over Palmer from the first race
Count me on Sainz's hype train

[Blerpa]

so, does this all mean Alonso is to stay at McLaren?

Yes.

[FaultyMario]

His presence has become as relevant as Ericsson's.

[Blerpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_YjpQAaX5M

[Crazed_Insanity]

His presence has become as relevant as Ericsson's.

Who knows, maybe he'll win another championship with Renault..., provided that McLaren chassis is not crap.

It'll be funny if Honda unleashes it's full potential and put Torro Rosso in contention for the championship next year...

[samoht]

I think the more likely positive outcome for Honda is that in 2018 they get to roughly where Renault are now, Red Bull snap them up, and in 2019 RedBull-Honda are legitimately fighting for the championship. I do think it's possible that Honda will get close enough in another couple of years, and engines less of a differentiator, for that to happen.

[Alan P]

I think the more likely positive outcome for Honda is that in 2018 they get to roughly where Renault are now, Red Bull snap them up, and in 2019 RedBull-Honda are legitimately fighting for the championship. I do think it's possible that Honda will get close enough in another couple of years, and engines less of a differentiator, for that to happen.

While the Renault engine is still below par and McLaren have the worst engine in the field. Again. Just to appease Alonso. And pay him themselves instead of Honda doing so.

[Blerpa]

Considering Red Bull is practically powered by a Renault engine and is the third force in the championship, and considering many times we have been hinted to a decent chassis and aero on the McLaren... well, it is a decent move.
Fuck Honda. IF they get good they could end up powering Red Bull in the 2020, or 2021 (when they will have to redo everything anyway, since new rules will be coming), or they could leave for good.
McLaren did the right choice, aside from earning a Mercedes engine (Ferrari? hahahahahaha).

And Alonso is still one of the best drivers out there: on top with Hamilton and Vettel, surely better than Kimi, Ricciardo, Bottas and Verstappen. Or Lucky Boy Rosberg.
I don't like Alonso for other reasons, I love his radio antics - Yes, if there would have been radio chat in the past we would have heard the same kind of earnest and funny retorts from the likes of Senna, Piquet, Mansell, Stewart, Rosberg Sr., Fittipaldi, Lauda, Moss and many others -and his talent is not under discussion, unless one is biased.

"Next year ,
Alonso : Where's Palmer?
Engineer : He's been replaced by Sainz
Alonso : Karma"

[FaultyMario]

Alonso, wasted genius.
Vettel, persevere.
Hamilton, gifted.
Kubica, Terry Malloy.

Alonso's turned sour. I don't want him on TV. He is not going to be a champion again. At least not until 2021, but i doubt teams will be willing to keep paying what he's been charging.

[Alan P]

I wrote a very long 'discussion' piece on Reddit. Straight copy and paste and it's likely I'm repeating stuff I've written above but it's 3:30am and I'm not editing it down.

IMO McLaren have sacrificed short term gain to keep Alonso. Which, IMO is stupid. If Honda come good, and I really do expect them to, McLaren will be in a worse position, and here's why:
If Renault get better they won't see the immediate benefit being a customer team. Alonso apparently wants a one year deal, or a longer deal with break clauses. He could be gone by the end of next season when both Red Bull drivers deals finish, as does Raikkonnen's deal and, I believe, Hamilton's too although it's unlikely he won't re-sign.
With the loss of Honda engines and monetary input along with having to pay Alonso directly, even if Alonso takes a substantial pay cut you're looking at least a £100m hole in McLaren's budget, maybe even as much as £130m. Considering McLaren's budget isn't on par with Ferrari's, Red Bull's and Mercedes', their overall budget is reckoned to be £200-£300m a season for a top, top level team. McLaren haven't been at that level for 3-4 seasons and with the lower payments for finishing position from the previous season McLaren's budget could be as low as £200m a season. To lose possibly half your budget in this 'worst case' scenario and have to pay for your engines this could mean a huge, nay massive hole in McLaren's budget which could really impact their ability to develop their car. Look at Toro Rosso and Williams recently. They've both had good cars at the season start but are rapidly out-developed by better funded teams. (Force India excepted, they're really doing a stellar job with the budget they have!) This could be the McLaren story for the next few years. Good results at the beginning but out-developed by better funded teams. This from the team widely regarded in F1 circles as the best team at developing their car.

Also, if McLaren decide to make their own engines for 2021 then this also throws up it's own issues. If a team is suddenly knocked back by every other engine manufacturer then that team can approach the FIA and ask for a supply. This supply is generally requested from the team supplying the lowest number of teams. Of course as a single team supplier that will fall to McLaren. Supplying two teams requires many more staff, equipment and development costs and with the engine cost likely to be capped by the FIA as it has been recently, it could end up being a financial black hole for them too.

IMO anyway, this is short termism to keep Fernando happy and he might even be gone by the end of next season. This could quite possibly be a complete disaster. McLaren have been one of my favourite teams for years, even during the Peugeot years and while I'm not happy seeing them in their current position they should stick with Honda as some of this is their own doing. Their insistence on the 'size zero' engine type placed severe limits on Honda's ability and resulted in a fundamentally flawed design that quickly reached it's maximum potential and was effectively scrapped and the new design started for 2017. Honda have effectively had little more than two years with the current 'split' engine design Mercedes perfected after what has been said to be 3 or 4 years of development, in private, without an angry Spaniard criticising them on Global TV every other weekend.

Anyway, this went on for way longer than I expected, but TL;DR, McLaren should stick with Honda for budgetary reasons, their own hobbling of Honda with their demands early in the partnership and tell Fernando to STFU or GTFO.

[Blerpa]

I'm simply looking forward to Honda crash and burn in F1 and get out of it with shame.

[JoeW]

Well that's just plain mean. I would hope the more different engine manufacturers in F1 the better. Variety is the spice of life...

[Blerpa]

Not a fan of Honda's ways in motorsport series: and loathe them with a passion since their stance on MotoGP in many years.

[JoeW]

I'm still bitter about the switch from 2 strokes in motogp so I feel ya.

[FaultyMario]

I actually like that they burned thru a billion dollars of their shareholders' revenue for educational purposes.

[Blerpa]

Toro Rosso ha signed a 3 year-deal (2018-2020) with Honda for the supply of the japanese engines. And about 25milions of yearly budget money from the japanese manufacturer to Faenza's squad.

Sainz *should* go to Renault but... Renault and Red Bull could part ways already at the end of 2018, pushing Red Bull to use Honda engines: the austrian team and the french supplier are not exactly in good terms right now, and it's Renault which is pushing to end the deal already after 2018.
There are rumours the french are pissed they are going to leave Toro Rosso supply after only a year and want revenge on RB. So RB could retaliate and block Sainz move to Renault.
Also Palmer's contract is a bit locked, but this is F1 we are talking.

Where's the tricky part? RB could be interested in jumping ship to Honda, even if it is risky. Why? Because RB long shot is to have an engine supply from big comeback Porsche from 2021 and onwards.

Toro Rosso, Honda, McLaren and Renault will announce the deals tomorrow, it seems.

[Alan P]

Toro Rosso ha signed a 3 year-deal (2018-2020) with Honda for the supply of the japanese engines. And about 25milions of yearly budget money from the japanese manufacturer to Faenza's squad.

Sainz *should* go to Renault but... Renault and Red Bull could part ways already at the end of 2018, pushing Red Bull to use Honda engines: the austrian team and the french supplier are not exactly in good terms right now, and it's Renault which is pushing to end the deal already after 2018.
There are rumours the french are pissed they are going to leave Toro Rosso supply after only a year and want revenge on RB. So RB could retaliate and block Sainz move to Renault.
Also Palmer's contract is a bit locked, but this is F1 we are talking.

Where's the tricky part? RB could be interested in jumping ship to Honda, even if it is risky. Why? Because RB long shot is to have an engine supply from big comeback Porsche from 2021 and onwards.

Toro Rosso, Honda, McLaren and Renault will announce the deals tomorrow, it seems.

There was talk of Red Bull selling up to Porsche but continuing to sponsor the team. The UK base would continue, as would Horner but the engine would be designed and built at Weissach.

[Blerpa]

Now it's official: McLaren with Renault, Toro Rosso with Honda. Sainz at Renault works team. Alonso probably staying at McLaren. All in 2018.
Rosberg is Kubica's new agent and Bottas has officially renewed his contract with Mercedes for 2018.

Yeah, Red Bull could disengage first from Toro Rosso, which is almost sure will stop being RB young driver team for Red Bull main one, and then make that Porsche move.

[The359]

Red Bull also announced they're not keeping Renault after 2018, and are in talks with a "manufacturer they are already involved with", which would seem to be Aston Martin.

[FaultyMario]

RBR get Merc power for 2 years?

Does that mean Tyrell Racing is up for sale again?

[FaultyMario]

Oh wait, "manufacturer they are already involved with" means they will get a Vag.

[Freude am Fahren]

But not until 2021, right? I doubt we'll get it if they are branding as Porsche, but it would be kinda cool to have Merc Silver Arrows against the Audi (Auto Unions) again :p

Honestly, I Porsche and F1 doesn't really fit IMO. Obviously anything is possible, but Porsche has always been the sports car side, not the formula car side. Audi's been in all forms (GP, Rally, Sportscars), but whatever. It's all just marketing, really.

[MR2 Fan]

Let's get Lamborghini!

[The359]

Oh wait, "manufacturer they are already involved with" means they will get a Vag.

I believe the thought is that Red Bull may end up with Merc power under an Aston Martin badge, since AMG is now building engines for Aston Martin.

[Blerpa]

Honestly, I Porsche and F1 doesn't really fit IMO. Obviously anything is possible, but Porsche has always been the sports car side, not the formula car side. Audi's been in all forms (GP, Rally, Sportscars), but whatever. It's all just marketing, really.

Go tell that to the people like me, that follow F1 since 1978, and remembers vividly McLaren Porsche awesomeness.
Audi has been a behemoth of Grand Prix Racing long before F1 even existed in 1950, with the amazing Auto Union squad, the records at Avus, the legends of Rosemeyer, Nuvolari, Varzi and so on...

There's this twisted view around motorsports like Le Mans and Sport cars are the epythomes of racing history... whereas, people that remember real history, do know that prototypes and such are a pretty recent thing and long before that there was and only mattered F1 (and its predecessor Grand Prix racing) and everyone did race there: teams, manufacturers and great drivers.

[FaultyMario]

I believe the thought is that Red Bull may end up with Merc power under an Aston Martin badge, since AMG is now building engines for Aston Martin.

That was my first thought but they go offroading in VWs and they loaned Webber to Porsche.

[Blerpa]

They also sponsor Honda in motorbike road racing and KTM in motocross/supercross (Antonio Cairoli, 9 times motocross world champion will try out a RB F1 car in the near future)...

[Blerpa]

Latest from the paddock: last week Marchionne, along with Arrivabene, flew to Hinwil, Sauber's HQ, in Switzerland to arrange a deal: not only a 2018 engine supply and some kind of direct involvment in the swiss team budget, but also the will to make of Sauber a kind of junior team for the Scuderia; so it seems Marchionne has offered engines, maybe some money and asked the swiss to empty their car seats for both Leclerc and Giovinazzi.
Meanwhile Haas seems to be determined to confirm their actual driver line-up for 2018: Grosjean and Magnussen.
Oh my.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJtaF3eXoAIgcFD.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJ04wTHVYAI5976.jpg

Tow car goals. Bentley Blower pulling a Porsche 962. @Hotel_de_France

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJ2HYDSW4AEHNi3.jpg

Fever fact of the day, 260/365: Henri Pescarolo holds the lap record for the original Spa, at 3m13.4s - set in the 1973 Matra MS670B. ©LAT

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJ2PW4GX0AYK704.jpg

Ferrari 312T2 - Clay Regazzoni - Spain 1976

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJ2TNvLW4AAFWFf.jpg

Didier Pironi! #f1 (Tyrrell 1978-79, Ligier 1980, Ferrari 1981-82)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsbLrkdWgAATLgn.jpg

.@criville_alex finished 3rd, Luca Cadalora 4th.... Honda riders occupied Top-8 at Catalunya. #500cc 1996 Catalan GP

[FaultyMario]

Grosjean is shit. He was actually beaten by, maiboi, Guti.

[The359]

It was Horner who said involvement with a known manufacturer. He has nothing to do with Red Bull's other sponsorship programs, he's only involved with the F1 team.

[JoeW]

Damn...lap 1. That guy just can't catch a break. I swear those idiots would have hit each other even if the middle car was able to back out enough to avoid the whole thing.

[balki]

???
Looked like partially VER and mostly VET fault
Vettel is taking after Schumi's worst characteristics

[Blerpa]

Vettel's fault, Kimi and Max this time around have zero faults.
Incredibly in italian forums and groups people are blaming mainly Raikkonen, then Verstappen and saying Vettel has no blame at all. Ferraristi... gone full retard.

Poor Alonso, that start really showed why McLaren better fucking keep him in the seat.
Damn good Magnussen let many people suck his balls before retiring... Grosjean, learn a bit from the swede.
Great going from Sainz and Palmer... way too late for the briton, though.

EDIT: Aston Martin becomes officially Red Bull's Main Sponsor since 2018, as Matt said. Probably the team will be renamed Aston Martin Red Bull Racing.
There are, as Matt also duly noted, rumours about Aston Martin developing their own engine for the new 2021 rules.
Perez confirmed at Force India for 2018, meanwhile.

[JoeW]

I hope this black cloud of bad luck leaves Verstappen before next season starts.

Was looking forward to seeing the race unfold considering how practice and qualifying had gone. Then turn one and we've lost a quarter of the field.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Vettel's fault, Kimi and Max this time around have zero faults.


I looked at the replays over and over again and I don't think I can say any of the 3 involved had 0% of faults.

Max probably has the least share of the fault because there's really no place for him to go..., he probably couldn't even slow down without catching Kimi's rear wheel with his front. His only fault was failing to accelerate out of the line faster than Kimi and allowing Kimi to get ahead of him.

Kimi really should've given Max more room, but how was he suppose to know Vettel was going to cut all the way across and pinch Max like that?

And how was Vettel suppose to know Kimi was so fast that he was already ahead of Max, so he was protecting his position...

We have 3 cars wanting to occupy the same space, I'd call that a racing incident.

Both Ferraris took the riskier/special maneuvers which failed to payoff for them.

If Max were really extracting 100% out of his tires and Renualt off the line..., then I'd definitely assess him with 0 fault.

Kimi just had an awesome start. Too bad it didn't work out for him.

Now Alonso was just overly optimistic at turn 1 I think. I really don't think he would've made it given Max's trajectory..., even if the 'flying Finn' didn't fly over to collect them.

[balki]

...And how was Vettel suppose to know Kimi was so fast that he was already ahead of Max, so he was protecting his position.
how about not pushing a car that's right alongside you?
I can see why it was called a racing incident, but it's Vettel's fault

[JoeW]

I certainly wish Max some better luck on Sundays. I am not a fanboy of anyone but I appreciate seeing someone put in the work, have the talent, have the speed and say the right things when your car just breaks for no apparent reason. At his age and maturity he deserves a reliable fast car to start getting the results he is capable of.

[dodint]

"I'm glad it was not just me that retired, all three of us are out of the race."

Hardly 'the right thing.' Dude is a turd and will drive himself out of the sport, he's the new Maldonado.

[FaultyMario]

My feelings exactly.

[dodint]

For clarification I'm not denying his talent. I'd like for him to be hit with the humility stick and actually put that talent to productive use. As he is right now he has the drive of a MS or Senna with zero results to back it up.

[JoeW]

Completely disagree.

[Crazed_Insanity]

how about not pushing a car that's right alongside you?
I can see why it was called a racing incident, but it's Vettel's fault
Max was not really that along side of vettel, kimi really had one helluva start to go from 4th to right along side vettel! (And be swung around to puncture vettels radiator!)

It'd certainly be interesting to see what would've happened had Vettel stayed on his racing line... I suspect they still might crash out in turn 1 anyway, but Vettels radiator might survived... ;)

[Tom Servo]

I'm also wondering if Max seems fast because either his car is set up in a faster-but-higher-risk kinda way or if he just pushes the car too hard. Sure, he's fast, but then the car fails him or he runs out of talent, and I'm not entirely convinced that it's purely bad luck.

[JoeW]

I did some minor googling to see his "zero results to back it up" and came up with a few tidbits.

Started in 2015 at 17 yrs old.

Youngest to compete in a F1 race.
Youngest to lead a lap of a F1 race.
Youngest to set fastest lap of a F1 race.
Youngest to score points of a F1 race.
Youngest to podium a F1 race.
Youngest to win a F1 race.

54 starts and 321 points over his career. More than MS or Senna (or anyone I can find) over the same number of races to start a career. Were points scored differently back in the 90's? I honestly don't know.

Three awards won.

Look I don't have time to type all the shit he's done. Go to the Wiki page and read it yourself. It's ridiculous. So many points positions won on track but subsequently lost due to engine failures beginning with Toro Rosso and continuing up to the present. Shit in his first 8 races with RBR he scored 6 top 5 finishes and 4 podiums.

I honestly haven't been following him very closely but after googling his info I am even MORE impressed than ever with his results.

I tell you, at 19 yrs old, if I had gotten taken out by the two ferraris I would have said much worse than "glad they are out too". So I'd say he restrained himself pretty well.

I think you guys have forgotten your youth. Try to imagine being 17 years old on a F1 team. Can you imagine how big your head could get...confidence level through the roof, ego running wild. Considering all that I'd say he's way more mature than most of the guys currently on track with him.

Zero results...good lord...after reading his accomplishments I think someone might be a hater. Which is ok...I know lots of you hardcore guys are fanboys and haters at the core. But at least try to be objective when saying zero results.

[dodint]

"Youngest to..." are novelty stats. Someone has to be the youngest/oldest/fattest/thinnest whatever.

Yes, "zero results" is hyperbole. As is most everything stated in absolutes.

Here are some results:

1 Win
0 Championships

The premise was that his attitude is endearing when you're a champion (Senna/Schumacher) and foolish when you're a nobody like Maldonado.

I'm sure all his DNFs are a coincidence and not a driver mismanaging his car.

[JoeW]

Well riddle me this Batman, find someone with better results in his first 2.5 years of racing. The meaning of the word Zero, hyperbole or no, seems to have escaped you. Pick any great driver, MS, AS, LH, SV, and tell me if any of those guys had more Zero results in their first couple of years than Max.

I am honestly not a historian but I think you just don't like someone at this point.