2017 Le Mans / IMSA

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2FR3a1XgAAwmu3.jpg:large

PRUETT: Lessons from the Roar http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/137700-pruett-lessons-from-the-roar …

[dodint]

Who all is going to 24Hr LM viewing party at NCM? So far I think it's Keith, me/Ash, and probably Tyler. I had a load of fun last year.

[Alan P]

Who all is going to 24Hr LM viewing party at NCM? So far I think it's Keith, me/Ash, and probably Tyler. I had a load of fun last year.

I'm getting what I'm assuming will be a £1200 bonus next month. The crazy thought crossed my mind to fly 10x further than Le Mans is from my house, to come watch it at NCM. I must be mad.

[Godson]

I'm getting what I'm assuming will be a £1200 bonus next month. The crazy thought crossed my mind to fly 10x further than Le Mans is from my house, to come watch it at NCM. I must be mad.

Dude, it would be cool.

I am going as my Trip to Moab this year is postponed to 2018 for logistics. I could pull off the NCM trip on the drop of a hat. I may or may not be dragging someone along with me. We shall see.

[dodint]

I just like it because there is so much to do. You have the museum there and all that. The video conferences with the crew and all that really add to the experience.

I'm itching to bring my PS4 and Project Cars but haven't decided if I want to approach them about it or not.

[Alan P]

The thought also crossed my mind to do an F1 weekend, maybe even the Spa/Monza double weekend. Or the US GP at Austin. The boy may be a little thorn in my side, I couldn't leave him for a week or more and I can't see him going back to his mums for a week or ten days willingly.

Ninja edit. So he likely comes too. Will be 16 by then.

[Alan P]

So if I were to consider such a crazy plan, what would be the best place to fly into? I really can't see the point in flying thousands of miles away from Le Mans to only stay for a couple of days as well.

[Kchrpm]

Nashville is closer, Nate and I would be driving near the Louisville airport on our way there, and I could pick you up from Cincinnati.

Personally, if I were you, I'd probably rather go to Le Mans than go much farther and spend much more money to watch Le Mans.

[Alan P]

I know. The thought also crossed my mind to do the Austin/Mexico City double header.

[The359]

Not Le Mans, but unfortunately I will be missing the Daytona 24 this year. :(

[Alan P]

Obviously I wouldn't be coming over just for the Le Mans weekend.

[Freude am Fahren]

Heh, Fox is still using the Corvette DP graphic for the Caddilacs. :rolleyes:

[The359]

I noticed their Rebellion is also their old LMP1 car graphic.

[The359]

Am I the only one who thinks the roof-mounted onboard cameras on the prototypes are awesome?

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, when I first tuned in, I had no idea where the camera was. Thought maybe it was a Delta Wing:lol: And about 30 seconds later the commentator was like "If you're having trouble working out where that camera is, etc"

[dodint]

Am I the only one who thinks the roof-mounted onboard cameras on the prototypes are awesome?

They should consider raising it 2" or so, so it doesn't look like it's on top of a bus.

[The359]

Or just move it closer to the front so you can see the nose.

[dodint]

Keith mentioned it might be to fit more sponsors and to better see cars moving alongside.

[Freude am Fahren]

I think it's fine, once you get your bearings on what you're looking at.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3SqmymWQAAdzqo.jpg

A few early snaps from the #Rolex24. View the gallery here: http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/137968-rolex-24-saturday-gallery …

[dodint]

:lol: at the Lambo scattering spectators in the infield.

[The359]

That always happens. The problem is that people can't tell if the car is going to the front garages or back garages.

I can't tell you how many times over the years walking the garages at Daytona that I've had to yank my dad out of the way of a car or crew member because he was a bit oblivious.

[Kchrpm]

I don't think I've ever seen a pace car swapped mid-caution before. Running low on fuel because of the length.

[Drachen596]

Something happen with the Mazdas? Their camera feed disappeared on the Imsa tv website.


Also the radar thing Porsche has is cool though it reminds me a lot of the old Battlezone arcade game.

[The359]

The 70 was in the garage for about 5 hours. They initially thought they had a clutch failure, then later realized the gearbox itself had a problem.

[Freude am Fahren]

Something happen with the Mazdas? Their camera feed disappeared on the Imsa tv website.


Also the radar thing Porsche has is cool though it reminds me a lot of the old Battlezone arcade game.

They were calling them the X-Wing Porsches because of that screen :lol:

[Tom Servo]

This GTLM fight is pretty fantastic.

[The359]

Typical end to a Rolex in recent years, unfortunately. Considering how much Felipe fought back after the spin, it would have been great to see them fight it out.

[Freude am Fahren]

He did go in slow, then open, then close the door. I think the officials made the right non-call.

[Random]

Repeating what I said on FB, I don't think Taylor had enough overlap for that to be a clean pass attempt.

[dodint]

GTLM stole the show for the last two hours, really entertaining race. The endless stream of cautions overnight was tedious, but it setup a fight at the end where I think 7 different cars were on the lead lap in the last hour.

Was pulling for Risi from the start, thought it would have been cool for a team that brought one car to get the better of the Ford Fleet. Calado was a beast and deserved more. Was really nice to see Not_Corvette come away with the win this year. Crazy seeing the 4 just shut off all alone, no one to blame but themselves.
Hopefully BMW will race next year, missed having them at the track in 2017.

Coverage was good. The full package was bogged down with interviews (lets talk to some NASCAR driver that ran this race once 15 years ago, came in 30th, but hey, he's on the phone) and team reps talking about their sponsors for 3 minutes a piece while on track action is ignored. The overnight coverage on FS2 was actually the best, with the IMSA Radio folks swapping stories and seeming to have a good time. Makes me excited to go to NCM and watch the commercial free feed in the theater.

One dude, Mcdavid I think, at about 2am utterly destoryed the BMW Art Car, calling it out for being 'dreadful' and 'not a Warhol, at all.' Which is great, because it was terrible.

Wayne Taylor racing are a collection of shit stains so this result doesn't surprise me. If they're going to get a win at least it's tainted. It's on IMSA for allowing it, should've been a drive-thru penalty, don't just let it slide because they cheated at the end. Shocked the team with J.Gordon wasn't penalized...

[The359]

I also think that IMSA is still trying to be careful after their penalty call on Level 5 in the final minutes of the Rolex in the first race of the combined series, and then the reversal after the race.

I believe BMW has all but said they'll be back in 2018 with the same new GTLM/GTE car they'll have in the WEC. "M8" is the rumor.

IMSA Radio/Radio Le Mans is always infinitely better, but watching online sucked because they'd just randomly throw commercials in with no warning, regardless of what was going on on track. And all the commercials would be for shit reality shows, left over from Speed Channel, that I didn't even know still existed.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, same was actually happening on air, they'd just cut too a commercial mid-conversation during the RLM hours.

[Kchrpm]

Strange, I don't remember hearing any commercials for shows.

Or do you mean Fox Sports Go?

[Freude am Fahren]

Overnight on FS1 or maybe it was FS2 cable station. It was like 1 or 2 am I think when I was watching.

[dodint]

Yeah, same was actually happening on air, they'd just cut too a commercial mid-conversation during the RLM hours.

Yup. Was really enjoying that interview with the Porsche exec and then they just bombed right out of it mid sentence. Oh well.

[Kchrpm]

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/here-is-your-2017-rolex-24-hours-at-daytona-mega-uber-g-1791777288

[Reynard]

I also think that IMSA is still trying to be careful after their penalty call on Level 5 in the final minutes of the Rolex in the first race of the combined series, and then the reversal after the race.

Yeah not to mention the non calls on the #5 & #31 for the previous two restarts which they could've easily done, so I think it was the correct non penalty for the #10 too.

That said, that bump and resulting spin combined with the #911 falling off at the end was rather deflating after the previous 60 minutes.

[dodint]

As admirably level-headed as that is, imagine the rage and tears WTR would've had if it were the other way around. They would have been throwing things into the pit lane, and this time it would be hard to fault them.

[Kchrpm]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3rIzQOXUAYoGH7.jpg

[dodint]

I'll be pulling for Calado most likely.

And the Ford Fleet, of course.

[Freude am Fahren]

Le Mans entry list?

[The359]

Yes, Le Mans entry.

On the downside for Keith, Larbre's Corvette is no longer running WEC this season, which is a surprise. They were discussing a potential Pro entry with a second car, but apparently it all got scrapped.

[Kchrpm]

Yes, but just for GT cars, that's all I found that I had access to. They were announcing it via a live video instead of just an article.

[The359]

http://www.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2017/24-heures-du-mans/entry-list-24-heures-du-mans-2017.pdf

This is the full list of 60. Only two reserves though...

[dodint]

What's the Garage 56 entry this year, any idea?

[Kchrpm]

Wow, LMP2 is huge compared to LMP1.

[The359]

What's the Garage 56 entry this year, any idea?

It was supposed to be a bio-methane powered prototype, but they ran out of money.

[The359]

Wow, LMP2 is huge compared to LMP1.

13 Orecas
6 Ligiers
3 Dallaras
1 Riley

Which sounds slightly skewed for Oreca.

Until you see the WEC season entry list:

10 Orecas
0 Ligiers
0 Dallaras
0 Rileys

[Kchrpm]

There's going to be a 24 hour race at COTA in November, with GT3 cars as the top class, and separated segments because of local noise restrictions.

https://www.motorsport.com/endurance/news/lets-go-west-already-53-entries-for-inaugural-24h-cota-usa-879119/

Also, it will be the first outing for the Callaway C7 GT3. GM gave the go-ahead since it won't be competing with any GM factory teams.

http://sportscar365.com/other-series/24hseries/callaway-corvette-c7-gt3-r-set-for-u-s-debut/

[dodint]

Local noise restrictions? I thought they built that place on some guys ranch? WTF happened?

[The359]

Also, it will be the first outing for the Callaway C7 GT3. GM gave the go-ahead since it won't be competing with any GM factory teams.

The first US outing. They've been successfully running that car in Germany since 2016.

[Kchrpm]

Local noise restrictions? I thought they built that place on some guys ranch? WTF happened?

I don't know how that works. There are neighborhoods surrounding it, though, so it's not completely in the middle of nowhere.

https://goo.gl/maps/TTV2BgxZYb62

And yes, I meant US debut, thanks.

[Freude am Fahren]

I didn't go around the whole track, but even the homes I saw when I was there were very few and far between. That's very surprising, especially in Texas.

[dodint]

IMSA is tough for me this year. BMW sucks and Ford is hard to root for because their whole program is shady as hell. Corvette isn't even a formidable opponent to root against. Risi is down to one car. Just a big bucket of 'meh.'

At least the Cadillacs got a BoP adjustment for Sebring so WTR might have to actually earn a win this round.

[The359]

IMSA is tough for me this year. BMW sucks and Ford is hard to root for because their whole program is shady as hell. Corvette isn't even a formidable opponent to root against. Risi is down to one car. Just a big bucket of 'meh.'

At least the Cadillacs got a BoP adjustment for Sebring so WTR might have to actually earn a win this round.

I have the feeling here that I had at Daytona as well. BMW is off the pace, and the other four are so close that you know its going to be a close fight to the finish, but you don't care which one comes out on top.

[Kchrpm]

Corvette for the overheat, and then another one for the win!

[dodint]

Was nice of the #911 to have a terrible series of issues, a cut tire and a series of brain farts, to ensure that.

[Godson]

Looks like Nate found a team to cheer for!

[XHawkeye]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwaaTSlEoII

Must use headphones to listen to this video.

[Kchrpm]

http://www.fia.com/news/wec-innovative-new-lmgte-balance-performance-system-be-introduced


The Federation Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA), Automobile Club de l’Ouest (ACO) and the GTE Manufacturers entered in the FIA World Endurance Championship have now agreed upon a plan for the governance of Balance of Performance (BOP). An innovative and ground-breaking automatic system will be introduced from the opening round of the 2017 season, the 6 Hours of Silverstone.

Adjustments to the balance of performance for cars entered in the LMGTE Pro category during the season will now be made automatically after certain rounds, according to evaluation criteria defined and agreed by all parties before the start of the season.

A calculation tool has been created which will allow the targets for balancing the different car models to be met, without human interpretation or decision-making, and using mathematical formulas based on the quantified, public, specific, measured data obtained during each race. More specific details can be found in the attached document which was jointly prepared by the FIA and ACO.

Click here (http://www.fia.com/file/55048/download?token=fvnkW2pU) to see the document.

This new system will be applicable for all rounds of the 2017 WEC except for the 24 Hours of Le Mans which will be treated separately. It will only be used for the manufacturers in the LMGTE Pro class, and the same system used up until 2016 will be applied to the LMGTE Am competitors.

[The359]

The problem, as I've seen some point out, is that this system wont be able to take into effect sandbagging.

[Kchrpm]

I don't think any method really can, and it also won't be used for LeMans, which is the race that most would sandbag for.

[Alan P]

I think the assumption is that no team is going to sandbag in a race, and they take 60% of the fastest race laps as their benchmark. I doubt anyone would sandbag to that extent in other races just to get an advantage at Le Mans. Too much to lose.

[CudaMan]

There are other ways to sandbag through engineering. I think they will still need humans looking at data to make sure engines aren't being turnt up after an unfavorable weight penalty, for example.

[Godson]

Just let competitive cars stay competitive. Ffs.

[Alan P]

Just let competitive cars stay competitive. Ffs.

Whilst I agree, if, say, the Ford GT dominates and another manufacturer just isn't competitive, what incentive do they have to stay? Win on Sunday, sell on Monday still rings true for many vehicles and manufacturers. Or at least is part of their marketing. The BoP makes an even playing field for all. Well, it's supposed to anyway.

[Kchrpm]

After this year's race, Le Mans will be adding a run-off area to the Porsche Curves.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/05/02/further-changes-planned-for-the-porsche-curves.html

http://www.dailysportscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Porsche-Curves-side-by-side.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

Ugh. I HATE when they just expand the tarmac out further. Look at every F1 track they they have to add speed bumps and shit to prevent gaining time, then they still end up issuing penalties.

Don't get me wrong, I love seeing pavement areas instead of walls or gravel traps, but they NEED to put grass or something in between to keep the original track design. Keeping a grass buffer of 5-10 feet will do hardly anything to hurt safety, but will prevent mistakes costing the racer nothing. Just look at the last corner before the Ford Chicane. Unlike in Forza, cars can go 15-20 feet wide and with no downside.

[dodint]

Agreed.

[Freude am Fahren]

Tony Kenaan to replace Bourdais at Le Mans for Ford. (http://autoweek.com/article/24-hours-le-mans/ford-gt-le-mans-tony-kanaan-replace-fellow-indycar-driver-sebastian)

[dodint]

Unreal. I dislike both of them.

[Alan P]

You've probably seen it but this is fabulous! http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a9967108/this-graffiti-covered-corvette-le-mans-race-car-is-beyond-cool/

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, although someone pointed out "Who's going to follow it around with a black light" :lol:

Still leagues better at BMW's attempt at an "art car". BMW is so lost in their ways in every facet. As if last years exhibit (get it?) wasn't bad enough, this year, it's just an unpainted car. But if you download an app and use augmented reality, it'll have some lights around it! :rolleyes:

[dodint]

I did a very similar rant about BMW losing the way with their art car entries the other day.

[Kchrpm]

Yeah, although someone pointed out "Who's going to follow it around with a black light" :lol:

The response I saw is that Porsche will:
http://flatsixes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Porsche-919-Hybrid-LED-color-coding-800x534.jpg

(Yes, I know it's not a black light, just an LED in purple, but still)

[Freude am Fahren]

:D

[Freude am Fahren]

From a Mulsanne's Corner follower on Facebook:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWnpCc6F3mg&ab_channel=LeMansVidz

[dodint]

Just put in my leave slip for next Friday. Starting to really get amped up about going. Now that Ash landed a job I can relax a little bit and not feel like I'm spending all our food money on a trip. ;)

[Kchrpm]

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/news/le-mans-introduces-fixed-slow-zones-915520/

Sounds smart: instead of starting slow zones for local yellows at marshal stations (which may be on the middle of a straightaway), they're designating specific areas to be slow through, which were purposefully designed to start after a low speed corner. They couldn't do this with the Porsche Curves, but in general the idea is that now instead of needing to scrub 50-100 mph at a somewhat random location, you just don't accelerate after the corner. It makes the slow zones larger than they would be if dynamically placed, but is safer.

[dodint]

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/corvette-pegged-back-in-post-le-mans-test-bop/


Fuel capacities, however, have been adjusted for all GTE-Pro cars, in order to equalize refueling times and stint lengths at 35 seconds and 14 laps, respectively.

This kind of thing bugs me about this kind of racing. It really is more like a spec race than a production based sports car event.

[Godson]

Yeah, that's dumb. Reward the cars that get better fuel mileage, don't hamper them.

[Kchrpm]

If you're equalizing speed, you have to equalize fuel mileage too.

[Kchrpm]

It does suck if you built a faster/more efficient car, but history has shown that it just ends up with manufacturers going out of control with stuff, driving up costs and forcing other manufacturers to outdo them or give up. It has been blamed on various GT1 manufacturers, from the height of the proto-GT Mercedes and Porsches, to even just the Corvette GT1s that drove out the Vipers and Aston Martins in various series. You need to build the most robust car, with reliability and maintainability, and arguably that translates to road cars more.

[dodint]

If you're equalizing speed, you have to equalize fuel mileage too.

Why?

[Drachen596]

if we're demanding equal speed and fuel mileage for race cars how long till before you just have a spec chassis and engine?

[Kchrpm]

Why?
Because if all the cars are one speed, but one can do an extra lap or two than the competition, it has a significant on track advantage over the course of 24 hours.


if we're demanding equal speed and fuel mileage for race cars how long till before you just have a spec chassis and engine?

It's not technically the same fuel mileage, it's the same number of laps on a tank. You can have worse mileage and they'll give you a bigger tank. They then adjust the refilling fuel flow speed to try and equalize the amount of time to fill the different sized tanks.

BoP can be frustrating, but it allows for spec style racing while still letting the manufacturers show off their products. Make no doubt, that is the goal.

[dodint]

"It's not technically fuel mileage, just the distance one can travel on a tank of fuel."

You win, mate.

[Kchrpm]

You know what I mean. They're not saying you have to change your fuel mapping to get 5 mpg, they're just making the fuel tanks bigger or smaller. Making actual fuel mileage match would be much easier with spec engines, but you have nearly an 8 mile buffer so making adjustments to tank size and fill rate seems to be enough, so they aren't necessary.

[Godson]

That's the thing though, it's an endurance race. If you get better mileage, and net an advantage for it, that directly equates to road cars. You shouldn't be penalized for that. Spec series is dumb, because it doesn't allow for things like different engine design etc. Which could find the next great thing for fuel efficiency/power.

Seriously though. One of the reasons I refused to watch NASCAR is because they provided little to nothing in the realm of technology advancement when they were running carbs well into the 21st century, when the tech was out-dated for well over 20 years by the time it was finally replaced.

[Blerpa]

I like spec racing.
But turning endurance prototype racing into spec genre... is just wrong.

[Kchrpm]

it doesn't allow for things like different engine design etc. Which could find the next great thing for fuel efficiency/power.

That's what the prototype classes are for, the GT cars are for tech currently in production. Testing different engine designs = $$$ = fewer competitors.

At LeMans, anyway. IMSA BOPs the prototype classes as well because they're also trying to keep costs down.

[Godson]

It's fucking counter productive

[Tom Servo]

Sounds like Ford may be up to their old ways.

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/news/bird-suspicious-of-ford-s-unusual-le-mans-test-pace-918125/?s=1

[dodint]

Yay, more BoP fun.

[Tom Servo]

While I'm not sure how close to reality times are in iRacing, *I* can turn a 3:57 and I suck.

[Kchrpm]

While I'm not sure how close to reality times are in iRacing, *I* can turn a 3:57 and I suck.

Does iRacing allow you to put penalty weight and/or air restrictors on the cars?

[dodint]

You can move ballast around but I can't tell if you can increase the actual weight itself.

[Tom Servo]

Supposedly they've done their own BoP for the cars, but that didn't take into account the aero damage that the flawed diffuser model is having.

[Fogelhund]

Sounds like Ford may be up to their old ways.

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/news/bird-suspicious-of-ford-s-unusual-le-mans-test-pace-918125/?s=1

The fastest of the Fords was two seconds off the pace in qualifying today, with them placing 5th, 11th, 12th and 13th in qualifying. We shall see what the second Q and race pace holds.

Corvette is off the pace as well...with it being the Aston and Ferrari up front.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCMxA9PV0AAmyeO.jpg:large

Slow Zone in Mulsanne Hairpin @24hoursoflemans pic.twitter.com/GDGTcZRdmn

[XHawkeye]

Here's the rest of that #PorscheCarreraCupLeMans final. Great stuff (https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/876069414298308608) <--- Open link for video

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DChnA-pV0AANkLI.jpg

he really should have worn a huge top hat @AxisOfOversteer (https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/876063491655741440)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DChmQLoUQAAv5l3.jpg

Corner 4 of a 24 hour race...really? @AxisOfOversteer (https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/876062575514984448)

[XHawkeye]

Haven't watched it so FYI

We’re heading back! To celebrate, relive our return to Le Mans in the new documentary now available with Prime on @AmazonVideo (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071X5FQJQ/ref=dvm_us_jk_tw_TRFord). #FordLeMans

[XHawkeye]

Dan Gurney Explains What it Took to Win Le Mans & F1 One Week Apart http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a10032575/dan-gurney-explains-what-it-took-to-win-le-mans-and-f1-one-week-apart … @RoadandTrack on American Racing's Golden Week


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCdbJ91XoAE7GL4.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCdbNUFW0AAHInt.jpg

[Blerpa]

Ok, who are you pulling for? Me Porsche. And anyone but americans in the GT classes, as always.

[dodint]

Ok, who are you pulling for? Me Porsche. And anyone but americans in the GT classes, as always.

This is actually my stance as well.

GTP: Ferrari, Ford, Porsche, Aston. Not-Corvette
Porsche in LMP1.

Fuck LMP2, been a menace all day: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--2BCCsGDv--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/ylvrfbwqeyvvh6afxuw4.gif

[The359]

The problem is a large number of amateurs in extremely fast cars. The driver of that LMP2 was the silver-rated driver.

I'm pulling for Toyota and Aston Martin.

[Freude am Fahren]

Same here, Toyota and Aston.

In P1 non-hybrid, I'm rooting for BKolles. That first lap scared me, but then I remembered their the only car in class :lol:

[Blerpa]

Bkolles are out... aren't they?

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah. So they won in record time :D

[dodint]

IT'S HAPPENING.

Suck it, Toyota.

[Blerpa]

LOL I thought of you!

[Blerpa]

Toyota's nightmare once again.

[The359]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCj1sl0XUAA-Hfv.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

:lol:

:( :( :(

I go to get dinner and return to see all hell has broken loose. Likely two LMP2's on the podium, if not all three spots.

[Blerpa]

I go to get dinner and return to see all hell has broken loose. Likely two LMP2's on the podium, if not all three spots.

Can you imagine if Porsche number 1 would get some trouble? Rebellion would be touched by a miracle...

[Godson]

I'm still hopeful for Corvette, I'm gutted for the people behind Toyota, but for the brand I don't care.

[dodint]

I'm still hopeful for Corvette, I'm gutted for the people behind Toyota, but for the brand I don't care.

Feel bad for individuals but be free to cheer the team failure.

This makes last year even worse for them.

[Freude am Fahren]

The leading P2 car (2nd overall) has an amateur driver in it, which is significant s well.

[dodint]

It's likely to hit something soon?

[Freude am Fahren]

http://www.freudeamfoto.com/gtx/holdmysake.jpg


Porsche right now:
http://www.gifbin.com/bin/25yu25yu380.gif

[The359]

Welp... :?

[Blerpa]

I jinxed them! OH ROFLMAO!

Any outcome now is fine by me.
Although for an LMP2 to win would be a marvellous middle finger to what I often loathe in motorsports: manufacturers as teams.
And with that I mean car makers that go racing to sell econoboxes or cheapy sport cars for pensioneers. :D

[dodint]

Not quite over... 1:39 left and just over 2 minute gap. If the backmarkers stop crashing for a minute the 2 will catch up.

[Blerpa]

Unless something dramatic happens Porsche is going to win.

[Blerpa]

BTW, how beatiful it is to see Ford GT beaten? Hey, Bourdais, what were you saying?

[dodint]

Are you heckling a guy who is in his hospital bed? lol

[Blerpa]

Are you heckling a guy who is in his hospital bed? lol

Did you read all the fuss he did about Aston Martin? Arrogant as usual.

[Blerpa]

And fuck that Vette already.

[Cam]

Kch must be rubbing his hands together with glee. :lol:

[Rare White Ape]

More importantly, fuck Eurosport and their ad breaks.

You get a short one every half-hour all day, then when the final hour starts you get looong ones every ten minutes.

[Blerpa]

Lets give that yellow cheater a penalty, com'on.

[Blerpa]

All it is now right in the world.

[Cam]

Kch must be rubbing his hands together with glee. :lol:
And now he's crying into his soda. :(

[dodint]

Not just him. Whole theater full of true believers just got rekt.

[Freude am Fahren]

I went to sleep right after the race ended. Did we get any info on what happened to the 'Vette? I couldn't tell if he just destroyed a tire going too deep into the second chicane, then over the gravel. Or if he had a tire/brake problem already that caused that. Clearly he couldn't get it to stop after that point.

[Kchrpm]

Tyler suggested, and it made sense as I had wondered if it would be an issue earlier but didn't think about it in the moment, if the brakes (which had been changed much earlier than usual due to a slow zone and/or safety car) finally gave out on him on the last lap.

[The359]

The FIA WEC commentary crew, with Allan McNish, were guessing it was brakes. The Radio Le Mans commentary crew were guessing it was a cut tire caused by the side swipe with the Aston Martin the lap before, or possibly toe link breakage. The damage to the car and the video I saw seemed to be to indicate it was a cut tire and not brake loss. The car also came across the line with the right front no longer rotating, like it had wedged itself from the suspension collapsing.

[The359]

Toyota's suggestion for why the No. 7 suffered a clutch failure during the safety car period: When the No. 7 came out of the pits and was forced to stop at the end of pit lane and wait for the next safety car, another driver walking along the pit lane waved his hands at the No. 7 in a motion indicating he could enter the track, which he started to but the team told him to stop. The team thinks the repeated stopping and starting of the car in such quick succession damaged the clutch, and it failed to work once the safety car period ended.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCn8BwjXkAQjMBt.jpg

That would be a driver from the Algarve Pro Racing LMP2 car, Vincent Capillaire, whose garage was at the end of pit lane.

[Blerpa]

Quite fragile aren't they?
The Algarve guy overdid trying to be helpful?

[The359]

The car wasn't supposed to go out, the pit exit is closed until the next safety car goes by. That's why the marshal is looking at the car, wondering why he moved.


The pole-sitting No. 7 Toyota of Kobayashi retired in the 10th hour with clutch failure, in what Vasselon said was triggered by a bizarre pit lane incident.

He said it was the “most amazing” problem they had during the race.

Kobayashi pitted for routine service while under the race’s second safety car period before going into the queue at pit exit, where Vasselon said he was signaled to re-enter the track by a fake marshal, believed to be a driver from another team.

“It’s amazing… Someone came to tell him, and we have it on video: ‘Go go go!’ And normally, our drivers are used to the human action dominate signs,” Vasselon explained.

“From our side, we told him stop because the safety car queue was coming, and it was not possible.

“There has been, as you can imagine, some confusion. Start, stop, start, stop.

“So he had done several restarts with the clutch and the combustion engine… and burned the clutch because he has been thrown into a situation which should not exist.”

[Rare White Ape]

The car also came across the line with the right front no longer rotating, like it had wedged itself from the suspension collapsing.

The car straight-lined the chicane just before Dunlop bridge, then glanced the wall coming out of the esses before the run onto Mulsanne.

[The359]

I meant on the lap after that, when he took the checkered flag. The left front (not right, my mistake) was no longer rotating.

[Freude am Fahren]

I thought the Toyota pulled away under electric power. Wouldn't the clutch not be used yet? Maybe just out of the pit stall.

[racerfink]

The Aston cut the tire on the Vette with his dive bomb at Arnage. He ran wide, then cut back onto the track into the left side of the Vette.

[dodint]

Uh, nope.

https://twitter.com/FIAWEC/status/876424068366512128

Contact was the driver rear. Later in the lap, after blowing the chicane, the Corvette struck the wall and damaged the front driver side enough to take out the headlight completely.

The brakes were shot, the offs were a symptom of that.

[XHawkeye]

http://michelinalley.com/gallery/

[The359]

The brakes shouldn't have had an affect on the Esses or the bulk of the Porsche Curves, they would not explain why he understeered so much while trying to turn right in a full acceleration part of the circuit. The headlight was shown on replay being taken out by parts of the tire being ejected.

I think the likely scenario is that it was a combination of both. Poor brakes forced him to overshoot the chicane, and the run through the gravel and/or flat spotting the tire caused the tire to go. The Aston Martin that lost the whole right front fender when its tire exploded was down to a flat spot. Jonny Adam reported that he could see the Corvette tire going down going through the Porsche curves and into the Ford Chicane, which is why he tried the inside line to pass him. I also quite honestly don't think he actually hit that wall when he went wide in the Esses.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nFaus2VAp8

[The359]

I thought the Toyota pulled away under electric power. Wouldn't the clutch not be used yet? Maybe just out of the pit stall.

They usually fire the engine by time they get to the end of the pits. Plus he was sitting there waiting at the end of the queue expending energy, so it probably didn't have enough juice to leave a second time.

[SkylineObsession]

GO NEW ZEALAND

:)

[Rare White Ape]

"I don't give two shits about flet batteries or flet tyres. A cuzzy bro won the race eh. Churr."

- SkylineObsession

[novicius]

Ford netted 2nd place in class? Beat Chevy? Cool. :up:

No sandbagging complaints yet? :D

[dodint]

FRAUD

[The359]

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/rebellion-stripped-of-overall-24h-le-mans-podium/

#13 Vaillante Rebellion disqualified from 3rd place finish for that hole they put in the engine cover so that they could tap the starter motor every time the car stopped. The bodywork was homologated and they technically ran outside homologation without the excuse of damage or accident.

Jackie Chan's cars now finish 2nd and 3rd overall.

Real overkill here. Should have just given them a time penalty.

[Blerpa]

OH MY! Feel sorry for Vaillante!

EDIT: While we are at it can we laugh at the whole miserable and patethic way endurance prototypes are built? Cars that do fry if the clutch is used two times more? Electric engines not able to give a full lap pull to get back to the pits? Batteries dying out as soon as the termal engine is gone? Hole punched in bodywork to access to the starter?
Endurance race fans enjoy to take shots at F1's nuances and strangeness, but these whole matters do make the series/category look pretty patethic. Advanced tecnology my arse, this is ridiculous.

[Kchrpm]

Eh, we had one year of noteworthy fallout. One of the classes is pushing the technological edge, the other has cars/packages which are brand new for this year due to changed regulations FWIU. They're far from miserable. What they're doing is not easy.

[Freude am Fahren]

Actually, I'd say banging a starter with a hammer is a automotive past-time. I'm sure it's been used at Le Mans for decades. The rest I agree with.

[Tom Servo]

Any time you have top level racing like that, you're making the parts exactly as sturdy as you think they're going to be and no more than that. Anything else is just adding weight/money/time to the effort.

The trick is to figure out how sturdy it's going to need to be. I'd argue that nobody in LMP1 did that, Porsche just screwed it up less.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah it's pretty bad if a racing car can't run flat out for 24 hours against other cars running flat out for 24 hours.

[Freude am Fahren]

So this has been a huge talking point this year. The 24 hour sprint of modernity, vs. the true endurance racing of yesteryear. A lot of people have been happy to see the LMP1 class disintegrate as it did and harken back to the old days of "to finish first, you must first finish." I kinda like the idea, but you need more competitors in the premiere class to make it work.

Audi really ushered in the current era of endurance racing, and I don't think it will go anywhere unless we get a couple years of no manufacturers involved.

[The359]

So, the Rebellion disqualification sounded harsh, but now I think its warranted.

Rebellion team manager Bart Hayden admitted telling the team to cover the hole with tape before the end of the race. For some reason they did not, so the team attempted to put tape on the car in Parc ferme, where no one is allowed to touch the cars.

When the team member was confronted, he attempted to remove the tape, but only got the white backing. The black tape remained.

So, yeah, justifiable disqualification now.

[MR2 Fan]

Toyota seems to have the worst luck at LeMans, they should go back to F1 (where they can't do worse than Honda!)

[Blerpa]

Ford against Ferrari in the 60s, anyone? Eventually the tide turned.

[XHawkeye]

2020 Rules: As wacky as ever

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/sports-cars/wec-goes-electric

Factory P1 car must complete the first kilometre after every fuel stop in full-electric mode

Factory P1 cars to take the chequered flag of WEC each race under electric power.

Active aerodynamics will be allowed.

Development of all aspects of the car is going to be limited. Each part of the car will be ascribed a number of units and then a total number of units allowed to each manufacturer. Developing a high-number item such as the engine will have an affect on the amount of work that can be done elsewhere.

[dodint]

LMP1 is dumb. This isn't helping.

[Kchrpm]

Edit: all this stuff seems to be covered in the article, I was just going off XHawkeye's summary
-------------------
The active aerodynamics thing is, oddly, intended as a cost saving measure, from what I've read. Right now the LMP1 teams have to develop separate low and high downforce packages, and they are only able to switch between them once or twice during the season, including for Le Mans. It leads to some complications and choices, which disappear if you just allow for a single package with active aero.

How that actually plays out, I don't know.

I've also read that the electric power requirements are just an attempt to get Porsche to stay, rather than leaving for Formula E. Which...I don't fully understand, but that's what has been presented.

[Freude am Fahren]

It's all very very preliminary, and was discussed a lot during coverage of the 24h, with some good input from the Racecar Engineering people on the RLM stream. They don't think the plug-in stuff will happen.

Interestingly this year's Garage 56 from WR that didn't make it was an active aero entry.

[Alan P]

It's all very very preliminary, and was discussed a lot during coverage of the 24h, with some good input from the Racecar Engineering people on the RLM stream. They don't think the plug-in stuff will happen.

Interestingly this year's Garage 56 from WR that didn't make it was an active aero entry.

Any more info on the garage 56 entry?

Next year they're talking about a full electric car with removable battery pack at the Pit stops http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130151

[Rare White Ape]

I think these rule changes are awesome.

Active aero? That's never been encouraged in any form of motor sport before, so sign me the hell up.

And the year-on-year development using a points system is good thinking outside the box. Take the Porsche 919 for example. The car that won three years ago bears very little resemblance to the one that won this year. That's gotta be expensive.

And some may well be frustrated by electric power over fossil fuel. Get over it. It's the future.

[dodint]

Yeah, you missed the point.

[Rare White Ape]

What? The point that you think LMP1 is dumb?

I never even addressed that point.

[dodint]

No, not that one.

[novicius]

Nobody vagueposts like Nate vagueposts. :D #zing

[Kchrpm]

Watch the entire 24 Hours of Le Mans on YouTube. Legally!

https://www.reddit.com/r/wec/comments/6n9cff/replay_2017_24_hours_of_le_mans_qualifying/

[Freude am Fahren]

Hmmm... Joest to Take Over Factory Mazda DPi Program

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/joest-to-take-over-factory-mazda-dpi-program/

[Kchrpm]

Whoa, terminating the current program immediately.

[The359]

Speedsource has been dropping the ball for years. I dont think the sudden termination is intentionally a slight on Speedsource and more a need to rapidly evolve the car and test it in Europe for 2018. Homologations for the DPis are being set before the end of 2017, so they only have a few months to correct major issues.

[Kchrpm]

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/vasselon-2020-lmp1-regs-to-showcase-fastest-electric-cars-of-era/


Vasselon said the fast-charging plug-in system would not necessarily lead to longer pit stops.

“We are talking about seconds,” he said. “We will have to define the safety procedures but we are talking about charging in a couple of seconds, not a couple of minutes.

“We are talking five or six seconds of connection, so a really fast charge.

“I would think for safety we’d do fuel and then fast-charging, but we will have a group of expert people who will work on that to define it, but the fast-charging will be fast.”

If this leads to big developments for fast charging in consumer vehicles, I'm all for it.

[dodint]

Just put a metal rail down the center of every track and let them gain charge like bumper cars and trains.

[XHawkeye]

Click bait but if you like reading rumors...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFQIKbfXYAA_YFM.jpg

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/sports-cars/why-porsche-could-pull-plug-lmp1

[Godson]

Hey now!

This is the sort of advancement that needs to be pushed. Battery charging in a few seconds. Hell yes.

[Freude am Fahren]

Porsche pullout is official.


(And all I can picture now if Toyota looking like that girl that doesn't quite know what to do after another kind of pullout.)

[Tom Servo]

All I can picture now is Toyota still being unable to win in 2018.

[Alan P]

They've always said they wouldn't compete without someone to compete against. And that they'll stay I'm LMP1 until 2019. Hmm.

[Kchrpm]

IMSA to skip COTA next year, and return to Mid-Ohio.

https://www.racer.com/imsa/item/142662-imsa-to-race-at-mid-ohio-in-2018-skip-cota

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DF08sIDWsAAng5L.jpg

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/sports-cars/hoist-its-own-petard

[dodint]

IMSA to skip COTA next year, and return to Mid-Ohio.

https://www.racer.com/imsa/item/142662-imsa-to-race-at-mid-ohio-in-2018-skip-cota

Sounds good to me. I still haven't grown to appreciate COTA. And MO is only like 3hrs away.

[Kchrpm]

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/sports-cars/hoist-its-own-petard
I wonder how unlimited he means to suggest for GT cars, and what the manufacturer interest would be in it.

[Kchrpm]

http://racing.blog.statesman.com/2017/07/28/imsa-series-will-race-mid-ohio-not-cota-next-year/

Seems that IMSA might want to have a night race to avoid the heat, but COTA hosts so many festivals that they weren't able to line up schedules for 2018.

[Freude am Fahren]

They really should keep the IMSA and WEC events together (assuming WEC goes there again). They moved the IMSA weekend up this year for some reason.

[Kchrpm]

*checks*

Their reasons (from the quoted articles below):
1) Avoid conflict with college football
2) Distance themselves from the F1 race, which they acknowledge is COTA's by-far largest and most important event
3) Go back to a spring time event, which was popular with Grand-Am but not really possible to schedule with WEC
4) Avoid the compromised schedule and pit/paddock situation (WEC got all of the garages IIRC, IMSA teams were set-up like support race teams)
5) Hoping for a late afternoon start (which apparently didn't happen because of the music needs), which wasn't possible with a 6-hour WEC race afterwards and the pit-wall removal in the middle (I didn't know WEC and IMSA used different pit walls)

Edit: Oh, right, the pit wall between the mechanics and the car, I never thought about that before: US series have a wall that the mechanics have to jump over, European/International series just use a painted line. More info at the bottom.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/atherton-cota-imsawec-weekend-a-compromise/


“It’s been a spectacular weekend, but it’s come with a lot of compromise by all involved,” Atherton told NBCSports.com.

“It also has had issues with its proximity on the calendar to college football which is enormous in that part of the world and also in proximity to the Formula 1 race that takes place.

“So it definitely has a distraction from their staff, their marketing efforts. Let’s be honest: a Formula 1 weekend is their biggest so that’s where their focus is.”

---------------------

“We had a desire to go to a springtime date,” Atherton said. “GRAND-AM raced there in the spring, had a very successful weekend and that’s been our desire.

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/140221-big-plans-for-imsa-s-first-standalone-cota-event


"For starters, with a weekend focused solely on IMSA content, we have had total flexibility to work with the COTA staff to optimize the way the weekend schedule was built. We also aren't in a situation where either our series or the WEC has had to compromise with the logistics of organizing the paddock, pit lane, media center, race control and other procedures that in recent years were all impacted by the shared event.

"Our event this year is consistent with most of our event weekends. However, we always enjoyed the opportunity to collaborate on the same weekend with WEC. Those combined events represented a unique opportunity – but the quality and quantity of the racing we will put on the track this weekend will be second to none."

One lingering problem with the former September date came with the start of the college football season and the looming October U.S. Grand Prix date at COTA. As Atherton explains, asking football-crazed Texans to forego long-held traditions to watch sports cars, among other considerations, was always going to be a stretch.

"The autonomy gave us the ability to move to a spring date, moving away from potential football conflicts and the distraction of F1 that were a constant with the fall date," he said. "It also enabled us to provide a more traditional IMSA experience; an event schedule that features nearly all of the IMSA [series] and because we don't have to absorb the fairly lengthy process of removing the pit wall and accommodate a six-hour race after the WeatherTech Championship Advance Auto Parts Sportscar Showdown, we have a more traditional race start time."

Details on the pit wall and its removal: http://www.mobil1thegrid.com/article/lone-star-le-mans-cultures-collide/

[Kchrpm]

To clarify, I thought the combined IMSA/WEC weekend was an AMAZING deal for sports car racing fans, and I also wish they would have figured out a way to keep them together.

Back to the news:

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/08/08/acura-previews-daytona-prototype-racer/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cblkk4d9YMw

[The359]

There really doesn't seem to be much changed from the Oreca. For the sake of comparison, here's a bare Oreca 07

http://cdn.oreca-group.com/wp-content/gallery/2016-oreca-07-lm-p2-test/2016_ORECA07_FirstTest_02.jpg

Besides the obvious wing, the nose is slightly redesigned and the front fenders seem much flatter and more square, but mechanically everything seems the same. Brake ducts where they should be and such. They've kept the super keeled-over rear fenders. The only other real difference is that the sidepods have louvres in them, but that's likely to do with the Acura being turbocharged.

[Kchrpm]

Full 2018 schedule announced, zero conflict between IMSA and PWC races :up: Also, Prototype Challenge is going away.

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/2018-weathertech-championship-schedule-released/


2018 IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship Schedule:
Jan. 5-7 – Roar Before the Rolex 24
Jan. 25-28 – Daytona International Speedway*
Mar. 14-17 – Sebring International Raceway*
Apr. 13-14 – Long Beach Street Circuit (P and GTLM only)
May 4-6 – Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
June 1-2 – Detroit Belle Isle (P and GTD only)
June 28-July 1 – Watkins Glen International*
July 6-8 – Canadian Tire Motorsport Park
July 20-21 – Lime Rock Park (GTLM and GTD only)
Aug. 3-5 – Road America
Aug. 17-19 – Virginia International Raceway (GTLM and GTD only)
Sept. 7-9 – Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
Oct. 10-13 Road Atlanta*

*Tequila Patron North American Endurance Cup events

[The359]

Prototype Challenge as a class was planned to be phased out, thats what the Prototype Challenge Series is for now (LMP3s and Mazda Prototype Lites).

[dodint]

Better late than never.

[Freude am Fahren]

I get limiting classes at the tight/small tracks, but why no P cars at VIR??

[dodint]

My guess is going to be the pit facilities. My hope is that it's proof of a higher being.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://i.imgflip.com/1v5hz7.jpg

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/wec-reveals-shift-to-winter-schedule-sebring-for-2019/

[The359]

It's an odd choice. The WEC 12 hours will start a mere hour or two after the IMSA 12 hours ends, which means it'd be practically impossible for anyone to attempt to "double up" and run both races, as modifications are necessary to run in each series.

[Freude am Fahren]

I know, that was my first thought. And a race starting at midnight? I'm kinda thinking it won't actually end up happening though.

[The359]

Well, it kind of makes sense in that it will effectively be a "24 hour race" with a two hour break in the middle of the night. But since it's a completely different race, yeah...odd.