Market Disruptions Thread (aka Millennials ruin EVERYTHING!)

[MR2 Fan]

I wanted to post a new thread regarding this topic, and you can feel free to just read along or add your own thoughts/info.

As we've seen, many established markets recently are being disrupted by new technologies/companies.

I figured I would make a list and my thoughts as I feel it is very important to recognize this paradigm shift and being able to predict what may come next.

The markets that are either being changed massively right now or expected in the near future:

Retail (Amazon and, well, Amazon)
Music (first it was Napster, then Itunes, now Spotify, etc.)
Movies & TV Shows (Netflix and other streaming services getting their own exclusive movies and awards)
Cable/Satellite TV vs. Cord-Cutters (ESPN is losing out big time)
Currency (Cryptocurrency, boom, bust?)
Automotive (electric and auto-pilot changes specifically)
Taxi Services (Uber and Lyft vs. existing Taxi companies with often violent consequences)
Large Restaurant Chains losing ground to smaller, quick service restaurants and things like UberEats coming out now with delivery
Grocery (not really a thing yet, but will be more common I think)


Looking back, every industry has gone through major changes in the past century or so...but they were seemingly more gradual and not completely overhauled within a 5-10 year span.

I do think Millennials are a major contributor to these changes, but as most of us know, just blaming them isn't the solution. The problem is the people who have been in business for a long time can't predict what they want very well.

There's a youtube channel, L2Inc. about business disruptions and he discussed how brand names don't matter as much anymore in the era of Alexa and Google Home.




Ironically, the small companies who were the upstarts challenging the big companies a few decades ago are becoming juggernauts in the new space.

Consider Apple, Google (erm, "Alphabet"), Amazon....how much just these 3 companies control

[dodint]

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20882864_10213261652437249_5091331204226319182_n.j pg?oh=2892b9be56774f003c1a608151b76c93&oe=5A317344

[MR2 Fan]

:up:

[Random]

Saw a comment on FB or reddit the gist of which was "all these so-called disruptions happened because of a failure of customer service."

Commenter went on to list off a few of the obvious ones:
Netflix: people were tired of late fees, etc from brick and mortar rentals
Uber/Lyft: taxi pricing, taxi cars, taxi unions
Streaming audio and mp3 services: high CD album prices, mailed-in recordings with only a couple good songs, etc.
Streaming video: increasingly crappy television shows, industry resistance to DVRs, high cable/satellite rates

Tesla's retail-store dealer model could be added to that list, probably.

Interesting thought.

[MR2 Fan]

That and people want things instantly delivered...cheaper.

When I think of customer service, I think of how friendly someone is, etc. but ironically that part is what will be mostly gone in a few years as most things get automated....which also needs to be considered of course. The market of automation and if socialism has to return in some form.

[Random]

Sears and JCPenney should have been in a prime spot for instant delivery around the US--huge stores, sold everything, everywhere. Totally missed the boat, though. :sadbanana:

[George]

Sears and JCPenney should have been in a prime spot for instant delivery around the US--huge stores, sold everything, everywhere. Totally missed the boat, though. :sadbanana:

Sears used to do that, minus the "instant" that we have come to expect today. When I was a kid, we had a Sears Catalog Store in our small town. It was a storefront that always had a washer & dryer on display in the window. You could also pick up the magical Sears Wish Book around Christmas. It was about four inches thick and had a huge toy section that I used to drool over.

There wasn't much else in the store except a counter where you placed your order and a loading dock in the back where their truck dropped off those horrible Toughskins jeans a few days later.

Then, as a teen and young adult living in a city with a large Sears store at the mall, I learned to buy tools there and ask advice from the older gentlemen working in the hardware department.

One day I went in and all the old guys were gone, replaced by idiot teenagers who couldn't find their backsides with a mirror and a stick. I think that was the beginning of the end for Sears. It sure has been a long, slow death, however. I'm still mad at Sears for buying Lands' End. Suddenly the wonderful Hyde Park dress shirts I had been wearing for years got more expensive while also made of thinner material and a different cut. But I digress, as usual.

Seems to me all this Amazon stuff isn't much different than in days gone by, where people placed their orders from a catalog (now the internet) and received their order in a week or so (now overnight, if not sooner).

I sure wouldn't want to be in the big-box brick & mortar retail business right now. Just look at Colorado-based Sports Authority, formerly the #2 sporting goods retailer in the country with 425 stores around 2012. Now they don't exist.

[dodint]

I used to get Sears and JCP catalogs. They were relevant until about 1998 in our house.

Someone gave me a Sports Authority gift card last year. I used it immediately, online, before they could go out of business. ;)

[George]

Way to stick it to the man! :lol:

[FaultyMario]

I'm still mad at Sears for buying Lands' End. Suddenly the wonderful Hyde Park dress shirts I had been wearing for years got more expensive while also made of thinner material and a different cut. But I digress, as usual.


Stuff like this has me thinking about having shirts (and maybe pants) made by a tailor or cuts-lady (whatever you call that in English), of course we developing worldies have the luxury of cheap manual labor... how bad do you yanks have it?

[dodint]

Seamstress.

When I want a nice shirt I'll order one and then take it to the tailor (or seamstress, actually) and have her tailor them to me. Runs about $20 per shirt, though.

[21Kid]

www.6dollarshirts.com

[Rare White Ape]

The makers of GPS devices enjoyed only a decade of relevance. I was laughing only yesterday at Google's initial refusal to release a Google Maps iPhone app after Apple introduced their own maps service. Now look at the GPS market. If you haven't got an app for Android or iOS then you're not worth shit.

And Kodak. Don't forget Kodak. They're the prime lesson at failing to keep up with technology, and they failed hard.

[Yw-slayer]

My tailored shirts are not cheap (well, some are cheaper than others) but they are AWESOME. Once you go tailored, you'll almost never go back, unless it's for a special fabric that your tailor doesn't have (like Ministry of Supply fabric) or for something other than a work shirt.

[MR2 Fan]

found this today

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a4GEXLQ_700b.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

I've never tailored anything so far! Nerdy engineers don't really need them I guess..., but now it's beginning to sound like I'm missing out...

Is there a tailor-swift.com for cheap engineers like me?

[21Kid]

Amazon's customer service is top-notch. Any time I've had an issue with an order they fix it immediately.

Taxis in Chicago have info on the side of their cars refrencing their *new app!!!. One that will summon a taxi (from just that one company) as soon as you order it!!! :lol:

[George]

Stuff like this has me thinking about having shirts (and maybe pants) made by a tailor or [a seamstress :)], of course we developing worldies have the luxury of cheap manual labor... how bad do you yanks have it?

Yanks have it fine. But some of us (I, anyway) live in a fantasy world where we think everything should be inexpensive, good quality, and readily available. You can have any two of those, but all three at once is difficult to find.

My biggest gripe about modern retail is that it can be tough to find something you like and want more of the same in different colors and patterns. Or, for things that aren't clothes, once something wears out and you need another, that kind isn't made any more and the replacement is cheap and flimsy compared to the one you used to have -- and more expensive, of course.

I think modern retail works like this:

Let's say "Famous Brand" shirts have been around forever. Your father wore them and his did too. But now, they're all made in China or wherever and there is no consistency of manufacture.

You go down to the local department store and see a Famous Brand shirt you like. It has all the features you like -- reasonably priced, looks good, has your preferred fabric and features, and, best of all, it fits really well.

You might take it home and wear it a couple times and wash it a couple times to make sure it doesn't shrink or anything. Great. Now you want several more in different colors and patterns.

They no longer exist.

That batch sold out at your favorite retailer weeks ago. No other stores nearby carries that exact style. However, right this minute there is a container ship crossing the Pacific with a thousands of new Famous Brand shirts. Hooray!

Not so fast.

This time around, a different overseas shirt factory bid a lowest price to Famous Brand headquarters in the USA than the factory that made the shirts the last time. So the new place got the order for a years' supply of mens' shirts to ship to the USA. FB sent them the specifications for the shirts, but the different factory made them slightly differently. No gauntlet buttons, to cut costs. Thinner material. A different collar. Different back darts. Averaged sleeve sizing instead of exact. New and improved (but actually awful) "wrinkle-free" fabric. DIFFERENT FIT. Whatever. They are not the same as before.

So you learn to put up with the ones you like less than the old. Or you try a different brand and start the process over.

That has been my story, anyway, for the last several years. It's hard to find shirts I like, and when I do, I can't find any more.

"Buy online", you say? Well, I used to, until I couldn't trust Lands' End anymore. Read reviews of their Hyde Park shirts going back a couple years and you'll see what I mean. I had fifteen or twenty of their Hyde Park shirts that lasted through YEARS AND YEARS of commercial laundering and light starch. They were made in Hong Kong and lasted like redwood trees.

When my supply started running low, Sears had bought Lands' End and the reviews online at that time were HORRIBLE. Guys were yelling about how they'd worn those shirts for twenty years but now the sizing was different and the new collars were too low to get a necktie completely under in the back.

Right now I have a few LL Bean shirts that seem okay, but I'm frustrated with them for opening a retail store near me and filling it mens' dress shirts with exact sizing - not just S, M, L, and XL. Patterns straight out of The Preppy Handbook. They also had polo shirts and nice trousers. when they opened near me, I thought I was set for life!

BUT THEN, they removed anything even remotely appropriate for a professional office job in favor of canoes, hiking gear, camping gear, and wrinkly adventure shirts with epaulets and pleated pockets that would look fine on safari but not at work. Damn.

Yes, I can call them or order through their website, but I can't try them on first that way, and I'm not one to pack up stuff and ship it back. I don't have the time or interest in doing business that way. I want to buy in person, at least until I know what I like. Then I'm happy to re-order online, until they change their specifications without telling anyone. Lands' End did this with "my" shirts, and apparently LL Bean did it with their Double L Polo shirts, which got scathing reviews online for changing to a new "slim fit" without telling anyone, just after I bought a couple and decided I liked them.

So then I found some Arrow button-down shirts I liked at Sears (go figure). The material is a little thin, but otherwise the shirts look good and fit well. I bought two. Went back to get more. All gone. Thinking I'd give Amazon a shot for once, I searched all the different numbers in the shirt - the one on the main label and also the ones on the tag sewn in near the bottom with laundering instructions. I couldn't find any that seem to be the same "model" of shirt online ANYWHERE - not at Amazon, not at various department stores' websites, and not at Arrow's own website.

So, the next time I need a couple new shirts, I'll wander into some random department store and roll the dice. Again.

First-world problems, I know. And this post is way too long. But it's fun to have a new topic to discuss here at the GTXF to distract from the same tired old threads. :)

[George]

found this today

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a4GEXLQ_700b.jpg

Point/counterpoint:

Netflix did not kill Blockbuster due to late fees alone. Once Netflix went online instead of (or in addition to?) mailing out DVDs, people could watch a movie online without having to get off their fat arses to schlep movies home from the Blockbuster store, and then have to return them later on.

Shopping from home on a computer also gave Amazon the edge over having to physically go buy something in a store. Only damn fools do that anymore. Why not stay home and eat pizza and drink beer while shopping?

Apple did not kill the music industry. Cassette tapes did. Once we could make copies of friends' vinyl albums and tape songs from the radio, it became easy to find "alternative sources" of music instead of paying for it. Anyone remember when radio stations would play full albums, or album sides? I've always thought there was a lot of nudge, nudge, wink wink going on there, as in "time to get your tape recorders ready, people!" when they'd announce they would play Dark Side Of The Moon starting at midnight, for example.

Then came Napster, the first time around. Boom. The cat was out of the bag. How are you gonna keep 'em down on the farm once they've seen Europe?

Just an opinion from a "full-length album" fan.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So, the next time I need a couple new shirts, I'll wander into some random department store and roll the dice. Again.


Totally understand and agree with your pain.

But perhaps this is also the result of companies being too customer-centric... most people wants new cheap stuffs... and that's what we have!

If you want something really good, higher quality material & craftsmenship, then you'll have to pay extra for it! 1st world problems can always be solved with extra money! ;)

In the future, I'm sure technology will be able to solve this problem. You can probably go to a store or online... scan in your measurements, pick the material and style you want... and robots will be able to tailor make the stuff for you and have Amazon drones deliver it to your closet directly... you should be able to save a copy of your purchase and should you wish to order another color of the same shirt, surely a robot will be able to reproduce one exactly! ;)

[dodint]

There are some Family Video locations around western PA. The joke is that they're likely a mob front because there can't be enough movie rental revenue happening to support a retail establishment. Even my parents, who still rent physical movies, do so from Red Box.

[balki]

...Someone gave me a Sports Authority gift card last year. I used it immediately, online, before they could go out of business. ;)
You should be able to cash gift cards out at banks ATMs (they may charge a few bucks, but your not forced to shop at that specific store)

[thesameguy]

That only works with generic gift cards, like Visa or AmEx. Not with store-branded gift cards like Sports Authority. Store branded cards only exist within the ecosystem of that store. I believe it is a Federal law (could be a California state law, but I don't think so) that requires a store cash you out of a store gift card with a value <$10, except in the case of gift cards issued by telephone companies... because they have a great lobby. If you do have a Visa or AmEx gift card, two "hacks" you can use to cash them out are Google Wallet and Amazon. I turn all my little MC/AE cards into Amazon gift cards immediately.

[thesameguy]

The thing all these legacy companies have in common is a failure to stay dynamic, to keep in touch with consumers and ahead of their changing needs and desires. Sears could have leveraged a physical presence and built an easy to navigate site with easy checkout and affordable shipping, but they waited too long. Blockbuster could have put their stock online in 1998 so you wouldn't waste a trip to the strip mall only to find the one movie you wanted was gone. The record industry could have done something other that pump one hit wonders while simultaneously killing single sales while simultaneously rejecting the lesson that Napster was teaching them about instant gratification. Traditional taxi companies could have hired better operators and offered guarantees that a ride would show up on time and take effective routes. Travel companies could have simply advertised low rates and built their brands rather teaching consumers to use 3rd parties (first travel agents, then aggregators like Expedia) to get the good rates and guarantees.

I think customer service is important, but people will take a LOT of abuse to get a good price. Walmart is still gigantic. It's not all price. They will often pay more if it's easy. iTunes is rarely the cheapest way to buy an album. You gotta wrap up ease of use, customer service, price, and perceived value (which might include things like brand, image, quality, etc.) into one package make it all easy to use and make it cool. All of these legacy businesses had YEARS to look and see where consumers were frustrated and make changes; often they had years while their disruptor was already in play; sometimes they actively fought the disruption and asserted their legacy. For big companies, change is often difficult because it requires abandoning years of carefully built infrastructure and a simultaneous investment in something new or poorly understood. Sometimes, the damage to the brand or concept is too great and recovery was probably never possible - Sears might be an example of that. They failed to latch onto "boutique branding" back in the '90s... their business got disrupted by Gap Brands, Inc. Kodak might be another - they had most of the patents essential to early digital photography, they knew it was coming, but couldn't figure out how to get buyers to trust their brand for digital - consumers looked towards electronic giants instead.

The goal is always satisfy the customer. Sometimes that's the lowest price. Sometimes that's the easiest transaction. Sometimes that's the best product. Most often, it's a combination, with a liberal amount of perception sprinkled in. I would throw out LA Gear as an example. After the '80s nobody gave a shit about LA Gear. But people *still* buy a lot of Sketchers. Dealing with consumers is about being dynamic, and relying on what you did yesterday to get you through tomorrow isn't the same safe bet it was in the '50s. That decade changed everything - it's just that it took all these years for technology to give Davids the ability to take on the Goliaths and/or all these years for the loss of these big industries' momentum to finally catch up. This whole "disruption" thing makes it seems like this all happened overnight. It's been happening for decades.

[IMOA]

For the Americans looking for tailored shirts this is a decent option https://propercloth.com I get mine done in Bangkok, I'd agree with YW.

I'm spending a lot of time in the future of transport space atm as I see car ownership rapidly declining over the next 10 years or so. Have to dash right now but rather than purchasing cars I see people purchasing mobility and moving to a pay for use model. Won work everywhere but between electric cars, autonomous cars and connected cars the transport industry is about to cop a massive disruption (not sure about the millennial aspect though, it's mostly gen x and y doing the disruption)

[Yw-slayer]

Propercloth looks promising for the Yanks. :up:

Transport space I 100% agree. I'd probably book a "Toyota taxi" to take me to/from work almost all of the time.

George, if it makes you feel better, almost no shirts are made in HK anymore. The ones that I do get, from Bonham Strand (a social enterprise trying to protect HK tailoring), cost me around USD120-150, but at least I can meet the tailor in the shop. Unless you buy from them, almost everything else is made across the border, no matter what the suit touts say. Not that the quality from stuff across the border is necessarily bad for the price. For my sister's wedding we all got (half-canvas even) suits and shirts made with good lining. They all look good, and the total cost was only USD295. That said, they are certainly not perfect, and we are all taking bets on how many times they'll last before they fall apart.

[MR2 Fan]

Update on the Grocery disruption, Amazon and Whole Foods:

https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/28/whole-foods-amazon-powered-price-cuts-are-live-have-already-expanded-to-include-several-grocery-staples/

[Crazed_Insanity]

Quite frankly, I don't get what Amazon is trying to do...

So they bought BMW, but try to lower prices to Honda levels. Disruptive, yes, but why?

[MR2 Fan]

Quite frankly, I don't get what Amazon is trying to do...

So they bought BMW, but try to lower prices to Honda levels. Disruptive, yes, but why?

I think it's a marketing thing for now, get more people in the door and used to going to whole foods, then they'll try to get their prime members to shop exclusively there and then get deliveries.

Whole Foods recently had issues with price gouging which is why their stock price had gone down

[JoshInKC]

Amazon's angle on buying whole foods is that they're trying to really get into the shipping groceries business. Very simply, selling "fresh" foods is very different and specialized compared to most other retail models. Retailers and suppliers have functionally different relationships - in most other products, if a shipment shows up 2 days late, it'll piss the retailer off but not substantially reduce the value of the end product and if it's two days early, they might be annoyed and have to shift some stuff around, but it's really no big thing at all. Also, one trailer full of cameras or books is pretty much exactly the same as another.
OTOH, with things like produce and meat, knowing that you'll get your shipments to exactly the right place at the exactly right time is way more important, and the entirety of the value of the final product hinges on that. Further, 1 trailer of tomatos might be nearly a completely different product from another - smaller, larger, riper or less ripe, etc.
Because of this, it can be surmised that amazon is buying whole foods for their relationships with and knowhow about suppliers and the basics of the grocery business.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Sounds fair enough..., they probably want to try this out with select premium customers 1st before they sell grocery to the mass... Just like Model S 1st, and then Model 3, not the other way around.

I still think Amazon might be biting off more than they can swallow..., but I'm no Jeff bezos.

[Rare White Ape]

Amazon is planning on doing groceries in Australia too. They were planning on getting it all up and ready by September for selected areas, alongside the beginning of operations in this country, but that got delayed. The non-groceries part of Amazon will be opening very shortly in Melbourne.

[Kchrpm]

That's a great explanation, Josh, thanks :up:

[speedpimp]

Produce prices can be volatile and not for the weak of heart or stomach.

[balki]

There's almost no money in groceries, I don't get it.

[MR2 Fan]

There's almost no money in groceries, I don't get it.

Whole Foods stores are also selling Echo devices....so Amazon is ironically using it as a retail location for other products...another way to get people into their ecosystem

[Crazed_Insanity]

I've seen Amazon stores in my local mall. That's probably more effective at showcasing their products than Whole Foods. I rarely shop at Whole Foods.

Anyway, I think they are just testing the water with high end grocery shoppers for now. Once they mastered that, maybe they'll go for the mass.

[George]

Interesting article from The Atlantic comparing Sears and Amazon: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/09/sears-predicts-amazon/540888/?utm_source=twbv

"The History of Sears Predicts Nearly Everything Amazon Is Doing.

One hundred years ago, a retail giant that shipped millions of products by mail
moved swiftly into the brick-and-mortar business, changing it forever.

Is that happening again?"

[MR2 Fan]

This article is excellent as well

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/saving-the-world-from-code/540393/?utm_source=fbb

[MR2 Fan]

Recently Wal-Mart had an announcement about having people be able to come into your house and re-stock your refrigerator....now Amazon is planing a similar thing, where Amazon delivery people will open your front door and drop off a package....with the Amazon camera monitoring them or something.

<sarcasm>For some odd reason, people are upset by this!</sarcasm>

I have a better idea...and I even tweeted it to Amazon and Jeff Bezos. Why not have a large, solid, bolted-down container outside of the front door with special key access for just the Amazon delivery person and the resident. Seems like it would solve most issues.

[dodint]

They were talking about coming up with a delivery model where they could put it in the trunk of your car. I liked that idea for more urban settings where leaving packages in a hallway or porch would be risky.

[MR2 Fan]

They were talking about coming up with a delivery model where they could put it in the trunk of your car. I liked that idea for more urban settings where leaving packages in a hallway or porch would be risky.

unless you have a hatchback or SUV I guess

[MR2 Fan]

sooo...Bitcoin goes over $10,000 and people are paying more attention.

I really am not smart enough to know what this all means if it does become accepted in more places and the price keeps going up...can they do a bitcoin "split" I wonder?

I mean it's kinda silly buying stuff with .00000001 bitcoin for a coffee

[MR2 Fan]

over $12,000 now

People are speculating it may go down, but why? I don't see a loss of confidence coming

[Crazed_Insanity]

You just stated in your previous post that you're not smart enough to know what it all means.

My advice for you is to listen to your previous self! ;)

Even if you do have the money, don't convert to bit coin just yet. That is for folks with lots of money to spare.

If you do have lots of side cash in some offshore account and don't know what to do..., yes, by all means, invest in bitcoin.

[DelSolMan]

I bought in Bitcoin at 30 bucks but I bought very little. Amazed to see what it is now. It's been a fun hobby for me to put in very little $ and see it go up. I also don't think it's too late to ride the wave. I opened a second account up in the summer and it tripled already.

I think vendors gave up on it as a currency to do day to day transactions and it's used more as an alternative to parking your money.

It's also a target for a lot of hacking. I personally know a few people that lost a lot of money. For that reason, I recommend everyone to be careful and read up on security.

[MR2 Fan]

well I think (and I'm DEFINITELY NOT an expert) that the hacking has more to do with insecure "wallet" situations than Bitcoin itself

[DelSolMan]

Yup

[MR2 Fan]

hit $19,000 today...this is INSANE!!

[DelSolMan]

This is nuts and completely unpredictable. It's so fun.

[MR2 Fan]

ironically this means it is less viable as a form of currency IMO until it stabliizes in price.

[21Kid]

It's going to crash... HARD!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Cool thing about digital currency is that even if it crashes, all you have to do is to reboot your computer and then it'll reset your money back to normal again... ;)

[Rare White Ape]

Valve has announced that they’re not accepting Bitcoin as a payment option on Steam any more.

It’s just an indication that Bitcoin is no longer viable as a payment currency, and merely a wealth hoarding currency.

[MR2 Fan]

It's going to crash... HARD!

by what metric are you basing that on? I'm just curious as I don't see anything that would cause it to crash. I think it will stagnate soon but I don't expect a major selloff for any reason...it isn't like buying a stock, and yes, a vast majority of it is speculation. My thought is that most people who own bitcoin aren't wall street investors and don't have the same kind of "panic" during price changes.

Again I could be totally wrong about this.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Greed caused it to go up and panic will cause it to go down.

Humanity is predictably irrational. You can't apply reason to our emotional reactions.

There's no good metric for it to spike up. There will also be no good metric for it to crash.

If you're in it, just enjoy the ride while you can!

[DelSolMan]

I don't think anyone can really predict what will happen. It might crash, it might not.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Stock market has suffer major crashes, but longterm, it has always gone up!

Stock market is sort of tied to the physical world somehow..., bitcoin OTOH doesn't really tie itself to any markets or national boundaries... so I suppose it is conceivable that panic never sets in to cause it to crash...

Unless we hear news of impending asteroid impact or Jesus returning... ;)

[21Kid]

by what metric are you basing that on? I'm just curious as I don't see anything that would cause it to crash. I think it will stagnate soon but I don't expect a major selloff for any reason...it isn't like buying a stock, and yes, a vast majority of it is speculation. My thought is that most people who own bitcoin aren't wall street investors and don't have the same kind of "panic" during price changes.

Again I could be totally wrong about this.Just a feeling... seems unsustainable. It's at what, a 900% return since the start of the year? And when things happen like "Valve stops accepting it", and other people sell, etc... it makes me nervous. It's not regulated at all. At least stocks have a few limits on what can be done to prevent a total disaster. But, then again as you pointed out. it's not like stocks. So who knows. :shrug:

[TheBenior]

IMO, Bitcoin is going to crash.

The value is all based on speculation, not it's utility, and even it's utility is hampered by the ever-growing amounts of electricity it takes to process transactions. As far as I can tell, the only utility Bitcoin adds is avoiding taxes and buying illegal things (even that is going to be limited when said illegal things are physical goods and not say, child pornography).

My wife mentioned somebody saying that it would be useful in countries being plagued by hyper-inflation where prices fluctuate wildly on a daily basis, but more stable currencies like the Euro and USD can already serve that role. They also aren't dependent upon internet access to confirm transactions. Bitcoin isn't immune to robbery; there's nothing to stop roving bandits from making you transfer Bitcoin from your wallet. Countries undergoing hyperinflation don't tend to have the most stable utility or security situations.

[MR2 Fan]

IMO, Bitcoin is going to crash.

The value is all based on speculation, not it's utility, and even it's utility is hampered by the ever-growing amounts of electricity it takes to process transactions. As far as I can tell, the only utility Bitcoin adds is avoiding taxes and buying illegal things (even that is going to be limited when said illegal things are physical goods and not say, child pornography).

My wife mentioned somebody saying that it would be useful in countries being plagued by hyper-inflation where prices fluctuate wildly on a daily basis, but more stable currencies like the Euro and USD can already serve that role. They also aren't dependent upon internet access to confirm transactions. Bitcoin isn't immune to robbery; there's nothing to stop roving bandits from making you transfer Bitcoin from your wallet. Countries undergoing hyperinflation don't tend to have the most stable utility or security situations.

Bitcoin is accepted in a lot of places that aren't illegal.

https://99bitcoins.com/who-accepts-bitcoins-payment-companies-stores-take-bitcoins/

Anyway, I thought the electricity issue was more about mining than transferring sale data.

[TheBenior]

Just because lots of places take it doesn't mean that there's any added utility over normal currencies. Given the current volatility, I would argue that there's less utility.

The mining is indeed what uses the extreme amount of electricity, but you can't entirely separate that from the transactions.

[Godson]

I was taking with a friend about it's viability in a market crash, it *could* be a safe hiding place for money in the right scenario, like 2008.

But I doubt it. Because when shit hits the fan, you want stability. A made up currency, which they all are, without any real standard or support, is useless.

[Freude am Fahren]

There are some safeguard to a bitcoin crash, I think. From what I understand, you can't just "cash out" everything. There are limits (I think $50k/day, or some other time period).

I thought about getting into, in order to play online poker a while after it was outlawed in the US. I just didn't understand it enough, and didn't want to fall down some dark well or something.

Valve's reason for getting rid of it are kinda funny. Apparently transaction fee's and time are too big. And with it so volatile, when someone purchased something using bitcoin, by the time the transaction went through, the value was significantly different.

I think high-end car dealers and realators are taking bitcoin these days.

There was a Big Bang Theory episode last week about it all. They mentioned the price at $5,000. It doubled by the time the episode aired. Then doubled agains since! :lol:

[Rare White Ape]

Anyway, I thought the electricity issue was more about mining than transferring sale data.

As far as I'm aware, the two are intrinsically related.


A made up currency, which they all are, without any real standard or support, is useless.

Rocks. Invest in rocks.

A friend of mine posited that you could buy up a heap of BTC, wait 'til it triples, then sell it and buy gold. When the market eventually crashes, all the smart people will flee and go back to gold like they always do when market crashes happen and drive its price up. Win-win.


Valve's reason for getting rid of it are kinda funny. Apparently transaction fee's and time are too big. And with it so volatile, when someone purchased something using bitcoin, by the time the transaction went through, the value was significantly different.

Yeah, the thing I read said that BTC transaction fees are up to $20 per transaction, they were about $0.20 when they started using it. It's wildly uneconomical for cheap items like games, plus its value would change like crazy while a transaction was taking place, leading to funding shortfalls during both sales and refunds.

[MR2 Fan]

Just because lots of places take it doesn't mean that there's any added utility over normal currencies. Given the current volatility, I would argue that there's less utility.

The mining is indeed what uses the extreme amount of electricity, but you can't entirely separate that from the transactions.

I agree, I'm just saying it's not just for illegal activities.

In a way this reminds me of when the internet first came out and I had (mostly older) people talk to me about it as I ran a website company and they were afraid it was a lot of illegal activity going on. I think much of this is that it's a very complicated thing to understand, and not something we've really dealt with before.

[DelSolMan]

Ripple is one to watch. It's having a bit of a spike right now.

It's interesting to me because some banks are experimenting with it.

[Leon]

So today would be a bit interesting to a lot of newbies who have just dived in.

[21Kid]

It's going to crash... HARD!

A bitcoin sell-off is gaining momentum, with a quarter of its value evaporating in just the past 24 hours.

[dodint]

https://i.redd.it/1lciqvoynf501.png

[novicius]

Quick! It's time to jump in! :lol: :up:

[MR2 Fan]

on the Movie front....overall theater attendance down for the past 2 years, now AMC, the biggest movie theater company is possibly going to charge different prices for different seating areas:

http://www.slashfilm.com/amc-theater-seating/

I think this is not going to go over well if that's the only thing they do (They do charge extra for the rumble seats, I mean D-Box already).

A few thoughts:

- I do wonder if there was same-day release on streaming/blu-ray as movies, and there wasn't a scarcity issue, how much revenue the theaters would lose. I'm guessing it would be 50% or more.

How long before the studios decide it's no longer worth it to delay release of the home versions....and then rapidly accelerate the demise of theaters?


If I had a movie theater, here is what I'd do:

Add partitions that can be placed between the seats, have headphone jacks at each seat and even a "rental" or deposit to use their high quality headphones if you really don't want to be distracted by other guests as one of the big issues with theaters is the complete lack of manners many people have.

Another thing is to have more staff people in the theater watching out for any rude behavior and warning or escorting the guest out of the theater if they don't follow the rules.

[George]

I'm annoyed at movie theatres that don't have open seating anymore. I don't want to have to choose my exact seat(s) before I enter the theatre. I want to walk in and then choose, based on how crowded it is and where the open seats are.

[MR2 Fan]

I'm annoyed at movie theatres that don't have open seating anymore. I don't want to have to choose my exact seat(s) before I enter the theatre. I want to walk in and then choose, based on how crowded it is and where the open seats are.

Are you the one who always shows up 5 minutes after the movie begins, after the 30 minutes of previews?

[DelSolMan]

I love assigned seating. It's something I pay extra for and don't mind.

[Jason]

I only go to the theater for big tentpole titles now. I much prefer my experience at home, so I'd rather just buy the Blu-ray than go to a noisy theater with exhorbant snack prices.

[George]

Are you the one who always shows up 5 minutes after the movie begins, after the 30 minutes of previews?

Nope, that's not me.

And I don't go to enough movies to care all that much, but it's a solution to a problem that didn't exist, IMO. That is too common of a problem these days, I think. Probably some consultant was hired and figured, "I've got to change something to justify my fee. I know! Let's make the rubes pick a seat BEFORE they get inside and see how the crowd is spread out."

Let people sit where they want to, says I.

[Rare White Ape]

Going to the cinema is still a big thing in Oz. The two main chains are quite successful, and one of them recently revamped and consolidated three different brands into one franchise. It keeps going from strength to strength here.

It’ll always be a fun social time for young people, and if you’re a bit older and don’t want the rude youngsters there’s always the premium Gold Class theatre with reclining chairs and F&B service.

If cinemas in the US are struggling then maybe they need to streamline and make the regular theatre experience attractive for late-teens, and offer choices for older folks who want a more comfortable time. That could attract people away from their lounge rooms and into the cineplexes.

And I think there’s no way in hell that the traditional movie theatre will ever die. There’s something quite special about the whole package; the big screen, the booming surround, the smell of popcorn. It’s definitely an event.

[Jason]

I for one love reserved seating. No anxiety over getting a good seat.

[novicius]

Agreed. :up:

[Freude am Fahren]

I don't mind reserved for big title premiere weekend and such.

But I once went to a matinee by myself at like 1 p.m. on a weekday (don't judge, TV news life) for something that had been out for a while, and they made my pick a seat, despite only two other people being in the huge theater.

On the other hand, when I saw Ep. VIII last week, they didn't reserve seats, and we got there just as previews were starting and had to sit in the front. There were probably 10-15 seats further back, but all singles.

The big thing theaters are doing now is moving to big comfy, even reclining seats. I was surprised by this when I saw TLJ at the mall theater back home. It's kinda like the big move to stadium seating we saw a couple decades ago. And of course the bar/meal big seat luxury theaters got more popular in the last few years too.

[Leon]

Reserved seating all the way for me.

That way I don't feel the urge to charge people out of the way to get a good seat.

I can turn up 5 minutes before the movie, and if somebody is in my seat, I ask them to move.

[Yw-slayer]

Every large cinema here (well, apart maybe from the porno ones? I don't know, never been, although I've read cases about them. Anyway I'm not sure I'd consider them large) does reserved seating.

[George]

Okay, okay. :lol:

Reserved seating is the best thing since pull-tab beer cans.

I'll find something else to grumble about.

[DelSolMan]

:lol:

[Rare White Ape]

Beer tastes better from a bottle.

[Cam]

I have never heard of reserved seating in a movie theatre until just now. :eek:

[MR2 Fan]

speaking of reserved seats......anyone have ideas on how to improve air travel?

I fly overseas a lot and the entire process is one big PITA. I think I've discussed this before in the Travel thread about trying to find deals and discounts on airfare and how much of a crap-shoot it seems to be about when to buy, etc.

[Yw-slayer]

Also, in our cinemas we generally have no more than 2 ads and 3 trailers. All in all the movie usually starts playing not less than 8 minutes after the "start". I remember that things are very different in the US.

Most chain cinemas also now sell a decent selection of beer and several types of wine.

We have had reserved seating for all tickets and shows since we moved here in 1993. I think we even had it in Malaysia in the late 1980s and early 1990s. It's always just been that way.

In conclusion: MY CINEMAS' STANDPOINTS ARE ABOVE YOURS'

Re:Air Travel, do you mean for yourself or the whole system? Where are you flying to and what are your main criteria in terms of "improvement"?

[IMOA]

speaking of reserved seats......anyone have ideas on how to improve air travel?

I fly overseas a lot and the entire process is one big PITA. I think I've discussed this before in the Travel thread about trying to find deals and discounts on airfare and how much of a crap-shoot it seems to be about when to buy, etc.

Things that make air travel very pleasant for me

1 - Airline status
2 - APEC card
3 - Amex platinum charge card
4 - Pay more

Airline status just makes everything easier. Premium check in, lounge access, better seats, front of the queue when shit goes wrong, many of the hassles of travel just melt away when you have top tier status

APEC card means I don’t need a visa for countries which would otherwise need one (China, Russia, Vietnam etc) and in all APEC countries I get to use the diplomats queue at inbound and outbound immigration. Massive time and hassle saver.

Charge card gives really good points earning which parks the points in an account which can transfer to to a bunch of different airlines and hotel programs. It also gives a priority pass and some other direct lounge access which comes in very handy when flying non alliance airlines such as the little flights around Asia or Europe when you’re on Air Asia and the like.

Paying more in the right place helps. Flying business on a decent airline is really a very pleasant experience. Flat beds, decent food, great service, long flights are a breeze. Specials are affordable otherwise it’s about the points and booking early, most of my leisure business and first class flights are booked on points. Paying more might also mean shorter clights on an LCC but paying a very small amount extra for stuff like front row seats. It’s a tiny outlay for a much better experience. That might not be the advice you want but paying more, in the right places, helps a lot

I’ll take yesterday as an example flying from Bali to Singapore with the gf. Used APEC card to skip outbound immigration queue which looked about 15 minutes long. Then used priority pass to chill in the lounge until flight was boarding. Flying on Jetstar 3K so serious budget airline but we paid for front row seats (maybe an extra $20 on top of a $150 fare) so we had unlimited legroom and were first off. At Singapore end we had a great gate, got to an empty immigration and were in the taxi 5 minutes after the door opened. Just a really easy flight which was really pleasant and no hassle because of a few extras.

[Yw-slayer]

True. Something like Cathay Silver saves tons of hassle. But getting it requires flying a lot.

I love travelling with people who have a Cathay Diamond card (all bankers). They can take you into the First Class Lounge where you get seriously good food and drink served to you, and which isn't full. They can also take you with them and help you board first.

Failing that, travel with youngish kids, as that way you still get to board just after the Business class guys.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, traveling with a baby/toddler will totally make travel a pleasant experience for yourself and everyone else on the plane!

[IMOA]

A lot of us software people have the equivalent of cathay diamond as well YW :) The best food is in the Qantas Sydney and melbourne first class lounges (had an excellant lunch at the Melbourne lounge on th way to Bali) but my favourite lounge in the world is The Pier First Class in Hong Kong. Just a wonderful place to relax before or between flights. This is having a Negroni there last month

2802

[Rare White Ape]

I always board the plane last. No need to hurry when you’ll just sit there waiting for everyone else.

[Yw-slayer]

Mate, I think you're the only one I know who's not a banker and who has Diamond... but yes, the Cathay First Class lounges in HK are brilliant. As they should be if you are paying USD20,000 for a ticket to London. :lol:


I always board the plane last. No need to hurry when you’ll just sit there waiting for everyone else.

Yes there is, you need to bag some of that sweet overhead luggage space!!


Yes, traveling with a baby/toddler will totally make travel a pleasant experience for yourself and everyone else on the plane!

Hey, I was just suggesting a way to be able to board first, I wasn't talking about enjoying the rest of the flight. That's what noise cancelling headphones or IEMs are for.

[Rare White Ape]

I hadn’t considered the O/H luggage need. I always stash my shit under the seat in front. It very handy if you’re on a window seat; you don’t have to crawl over your fellow passengers to get your bag if you need it.

Yep, I always travel in economy. But nearly all of my flights are 2hr domestic trips.

Anyway, here are my tips for an easy flight:

1) Book an aisle seat right at the back of the plane. Last row if you can.
2) Get on last. Just chill on a seat at the gate while 150 of your fellow travellers worry about queuing.
3) Be fed and bring water.
4) Bring wired noise-cancelling headphones and a portable games console. Preferably one loaded with Breath of the Wild.
5) Since you’re right at the back of the plane, you’ll enjoy the double-convenience of being one of the first to get off the metal tube, assuming the destination has rear disembarkation available.

Sometimes I look forward to a flight simply because I can play Zelda.

[Yw-slayer]

I hadn’t considered the O/H luggage need. I always stash my shit under the seat in front. It very handy if you’re on a window seat; you don’t have to crawl over your fellow passengers to get your bag if you need it.

If you have very little carry-on, yeah, that's fine. But if you have bulky stuff that you MUST put in your carry-on (important, confidential documents, suit and outfit for a wedding you're attending, etc.) or if you're just going carry-on only for more than say 2-days, I don't think that's possible.


1) Book an aisle seat right at the back of the plane. Last row if you can.

I always avoid the back. Isn't the air recirculated from the front to the back? And isn't it usually next to the toilets? I do like how on some of the Lufthansa international flights they put the toilets on a separate floor and altogether though. :up:


4) Bring wired noise-cancelling headphones and a portable games console. Preferably one loaded with Breath of the Wild.

Agree, especially if you're not travelling with anyone. Ah, bliss.


5) Since you’re right at the back of the plane, you’ll enjoy the double-convenience of being one of the first to get off the metal tube, assuming the destination has rear disembarkation available.

I think it's usually only domestic flights that have that.

[Rare White Ape]

I’ve never had issue with the air con at the back. It’s not like it’s circulated through everyone’s lungs - it still comes out the little overhead nozzles. And the dunny has negative air pressure, so only the worst products (like mine) can emit a smell into the cabin.

[CudaMan]

Vast majority of domestic flights I've been on here have the lav at the back. Back row is the worst because of that and no recline. Amazes me how so few people bother to use the airport restroom before a 1-3 hour flight.

Basically the key to pleasant air travel is to be sufficiently wealthy to get those perks. Which is pretty much the case in any aspect of life, really. :)

Business class is the only way to travel, especially internationally. It's so superior it's hard to believe it's the same aircraft. It's literally the difference between arriving at your overseas destination refreshed, or a haggard zombie.

[speedpimp]

My favorite local theater removed all of the normal seating and replaced it with what they call "Luxury Loungers"(big overstuffed leather recliners). Downside being that each theater doesn't have as many seats as it used to. Upside being with less seats each showing is pretty much guaranteed to be a sellout.

[MR2 Fan]

Vast majority of domestic flights I've been on here have the lav at the back. Back row is the worst because of that and no recline. Amazes me how so few people bother to use the airport restroom before a 1-3 hour flight.

Basically the key to pleasant air travel is to be sufficiently wealthy to get those perks. Which is pretty much the case in any aspect of life, really. :)

Business class is the only way to travel, especially internationally. It's so superior it's hard to believe it's the same aircraft. It's literally the difference between arriving at your overseas destination refreshed, or a haggard zombie.

Worse than the people who don't use the restroom before a flight are the people, and I've seen this SEVERAL times, who wait until JUST before landing, when the flight attendants put the fasten seat belt ON for landing, and they decide THAT is the time to use the restroom...no it isn't you twat, it's so you don't bang your head upon landing while you piss yourself and then the flight attendants have to clean it up!!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think you guys are overly harsh on some folks... 1st off, there could be folks who had to rush thru all security checks and had no time to go to the restroom. 2nd, there can also be folks who just couldn't get to the restroom on the plane in time due to it being occupied or freaking drunk carts in the way during flight...

Anyway, best way to fly is probably to knock all the passengers out with diapers and then wake them up at their destination luggage claim area.

We can then get rid of all TSA agents... and if our plane crashes, we'd never know...

[Rare White Ape]

There's no excuse for being disorganised.

[CudaMan]

That stuff does happen Billi, but it can't be that high of a percentage.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't understand why my wife is such a frequent urinator, I think most women are that way, but what can we do about that?

Never mind the road trips, she could pee prior to boarding and still need to pee during flight. I'm the type who'd avoid peeing at all cost, but I have personally experienced the couple of scenarios described above on low percentage of occasions... ;)

Anyway, I do try my best to be considerate of others and also try my best to not get annoyed by others in order to enjoy my flight.

[IMOA]

.... and also try my best to not get annoyed by others in order to enjoy my flight.

This is one of the most important pieces of advice I give to people who start travelling a lot. You're jammed into a small tube and going through a process which involves lots of queues. People being people will do dumb shit which is bloody frustrating but if you allow yourself to get pissed off by that stuff you certainly won't stop them from doing the dumb shit but you absolutely will be pissed off. You just gotta learn to roll with it when travelling a lot and not allow other peoples muppetry affect your mood.

[Leon]

To mangle another quote to make it fit the question better.

Key to being comfortable / happy in flights.

1) Be rich
2) Don't be poor

;)

NB: I'm poor, and rarely fly. So I'm generally in intense discomfort on planes as I'm a little under six foot, so leg room is often an issue.

[dodint]

Flew Southwest Saturday. Paid $15 extra for group A, got the exit row seat that doesn't have a chair in front of you. Worth it.

[Jason]

Personally, if it's domestic, I fly Southwest, check-in early, and find myself a seat closer to the front. My biggest annoyance is waiting for everyone else to de-board, especially if I have to transfer planes somewhere.

Otherwise like others have said, be rich, that's how to make flights better for most airlines. (I haven't gotten to that point yet)

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah but you were fucking two chicks at once for a while so you win everything anyway.

[Freude am Fahren]

In the US, if you only fly 1-2 times a year domestically you don't have to be rich, just a bit flexible, and diligent.

I pretty much always fly Delta, or sometimes AA, and go first class. If you do it right, you can usually do it for a couple hundred more than economy, and only once a year or so, it's worth it.


(Almost all of my flights are FL to the northeast, so it's probably different flying across country. Done FL - TX as well)

[dodint]

Domestic First Class doesn't get you access to the lounge, though, which is complete horseshit.

[IMOA]

Lounge access in the US is bizarre. When I was flying AA in the US flying first class didn't get me access, being top tier on AA's frequent flyer program didn't get me access but being mid tier on Qantas got me access and a couple of drinks vouchers (because the concept of paying for drinks in a lounge was weird to us foreigners, I think AA has finally moved to free drinks now).

[MR2 Fan]

because AA is the wal-mart of the skies

[Godson]

I thought that was Southwest

[dodint]

Southwest is the Planned Parenthood of the skies.

You are there because you've made a bad choice.

[Jason]

Odd, I have a better experience with them than the other airlines.

[IMOA]

To be fair all american airlines are the air travel equivalent of Wendy's

[Crazed_Insanity]

Which is more disruptive to the burger market? Wendy's or McDonald's?

Anyway, so which airline is the most impressive to you IMOA?

Out of my limited experience, I really enjoy flying Emirates going from Australia to New Zealand. Even flying economy, it had amazing selection of movies... nice looking stewardesses... and I think they had gold plated toilets and faucets if memory served me. Anyway, was really impressed flying economy, can't even imagine what the stewardesses will do to you flying business or first class! ;)

[George]

Gold-plated toilets? :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm sure it's not real gold, but they do their best to treat you like a king or a shah!

[IMOA]

Hmm, best airline, often it depends on the route or the flight itself to be honest. I'm taking Emirates to europe next saturday, things I like are the seat (1-2-1 layout, decent size side table and storage, I like the little bar at the seat), entertainment is very good, food is pretty good, limo at each end (very handy at the europe end where I'm 40 miles from the airport) and since it's a 380 there's the bar up the back which is an awesome way to kill a few hours and meet some interesting people. I don't like the gold and wood, I find it very tacky, and I don't like the Emirates service.

For me the best are Qantas (330), Emirates (380), Qatar (787, 350) and Cathay (350). There's lots of others which are very good and they're each slightly better at different things than the other but thats the best group imo.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, just like gold emblems on cars or wood trims inside cars, they do look very tacky indeed! Just something I've never seen before so made an impression! ;)

Good to know that there isn't a BEST airline...because I typically only travel with the cheapest! Also hoping to someday be able to fly the 787 and the A380...

[balki]

You'll need a lot of flight hours to fly those, so unless you've been in the Air Force the last 20 years that's an unrealistic hope

[Tom Servo]

If memory serves, it was actually a little bit cheaper to fly Lufthansa to Tel Aviv vs. the United flight I did take (because other coworkers were on that flight). Longer layover, but I'd get to ride on an A380, so I may have to go for that option next time I go.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You'll need a lot of flight hours to fly those, so unless you've been in the Air Force the last 20 years that's an unrealistic hope

I haven't even flown in one as a passenger, so I don't really expect to actually piloting one of them within my lifetime! :p

[MR2 Fan]

Good article:

https://hbr.org/2018/01/how-automation-will-change-work-purpose-and-meaning

Edit: It will be interesting to see the difference in the role of education after a few decades if automation does remove most of the tasks needed. Modern Education is mostly a tool of getting people into the workforce.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Critical thinking and creativity can still be taught in school to get them ready for the workforce.

Plus, computers can already make calculations faster and better than human, but that doesn't mean we can stop teaching kids how to count.

As far as labors are concerned, I find it difficult to replace your local plumber or roofer... since every house has slightly different shapes, size and DIY screw ups..., I can't believe a robotic handyman will ever be able to replace them! These jobs will also be very difficult to outsourced to China or India. Laborers that require creativity/problem solving skills should still be able to save their jobs from robots. Even for service industries, maybe people will pay a premium to have humans preparing and serving your food!

Even when UBER is running completely autonomous vehicles, the company still cannot continue on and to grow without some sort of human intervention.

I think worrying about machines replacing humans is unnecessary. My main worry would be the growing divide between the super rich and the super poor.

[MR2 Fan]

It isn't about replacing ALL jobs, but if it replaces another 20-30% that's a massive difference. Our political and economic models just aren't designed for that yet.

We need to be able to at least attempt to predict how things will change. I mentioned it before, either in this thread or the politics thread that we may need to start looking for countries to offer a minimum living wage once these changes start happening.

[Freude am Fahren]

Perfect example is my job. I do through a computer program what used to be done by 5-10 people.

I'd love to see actual stats (and not just estimations) on jobs lost to immigrants vs. moving jobs overseas vs. automation/computers/robots in the last 20 years. I'm betting the computers have the lead.

[dodint]

I wouldn't have my job if not for computers.

[Rare White Ape]

As long as the computers are American made, it’s all good.

Wouldn’t want jobs farmed out to cheaper FOREIGN computers now, would we?

[balki]

How would a political or socioeconomic uprising unfold in a country with millions of Luddites with guns?

[novicius]

Probably with an angry vandalizing/looting march ending in a one-way massacre as they're surrounded by assholes shooting at them from pickups.

[Jason]

Perfect example is my job. I do through a computer program what used to be done by 5-10 people.

I'd love to see actual stats (and not just estimations) on jobs lost to immigrants vs. moving jobs overseas vs. automation/computers/robots in the last 20 years. I'm betting the computers have the lead.

This is a point I try to make to people when discussion of automation and/or robots replacing people. Most people think it's just factory workers, or maybe fast food workers, but the reality is a lot of jobs can be done with fewer people now, due to technology. My job probably used to require a small team of people about 10 years ago, as well.

[dodint]

Progress is destructive but also creates new opportunities. That doesn't bode well for unskilled labor, though. That's the only reason I'm not completely revolted by the idea of a Universal Basic Income because it might be the only long term solution for an automated society. We're kind of on the beginning of the track of the people in Wall-E.

[Jason]

Yeah, UBI or an 'adjustment' away from capitalism will be necessary in the future. While new jobs will pop up to support the automations that replace some current jobs, I don't think it'll be 1:1.

[TheBenior]

I read an article that said not to worry about automation replacing jobs because for every 10 jobs displaced by technology, 6 are created. As if 40% unemployment wouldn't have catastrophic effects.

[dodint]

I read an article that said not to worry about automation replacing jobs because for every 10 jobs displaced by technology, 6 are created. As if 40% unemployment wouldn't have catastrophic effects.

Well, my mother had 8 brothers and sisters. My Mom had three kids. Of those three kids, only one grandchild has been birthed. So, as a family, we're doing our part. ;)

This might just be a Catholic thing, though. ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Birth rate is dwindling all over the world. Every 10 jobs lost, we just might only need 6 more jobs for the next generation... or as a more productive society, we just might be able to absorb more idle hands sitting around just consuming and play video games for the rest of their lives.

Anyway, I really don't think we need to save unskilled labors. Who here really wants to go back to farming or becoming a factory worker even if such job is created for you?

Automation simply alleviate us of the grind and allow us to be more focused on higher level work that needs to be done. Until the day we have the entire universe all figured out with nothing else to discover, we will never run out of those higher next level jobs.

As for the idea of universal basic income? I think that's a bad idea. If society end up sponsoring young folks to just eat, shit, have sex and play games for the rest of their lives, surely that won't be good for anybody.

Recent OP-ED from LA times highlighted how despite CA spending the most to fight poverty, we still end up being the state with the highest poverty rates after adjusting to cost of living. http://beta.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-jackson-california-poverty-20180114-story.html

Main reason is that CA just gives money to the poor and don't really help them to stand on their own feet. CA welfare worker also have no incentives to help people off welfare... because they themselves will get their budgets cut and end up losing their own jobs.

Universal basic income is only a good idea if everyone's still motivated to do something great with their lives. Obviously, it'll be bad idea to continue to give such basic income to a homeless druggie or somebody who's mentally illed, right? Although I'm not a druggie nor do I believe I am mentally illed, but surely if I have a steady stream of money coming into my bank account, I'd probably become lazy and idle with my life too. So just giving money away to all won't be the solution to bridge the gap between rich and poor.

Universal basic healthcare, yes, income, no! People gotta 'earn' their wages somehow. People/families shouldn't starve to death of course, but the social program in place shouldn't just be about feeding the poor, but to help them stand on their own feet. Job displaced? Let's go find another one... or perhaps create a brand new one! Automation shouldn't be blamed.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVTYj_yXkAABHCh.jpg
(Admit it, you had no idea this wasn't a real tweet until you read this)

[Leon]

The subforum of another forum I belong to, in which a collection of people had been big-noting about all their crypto gains (along with a lot of people saying "how do I get into crypto, this looks like free money guaranteed?") has gone awfully awfully quiet lately.

It wasn't long since people were bragging about their six figure gains there.

[Rare White Ape]

I hear BTC lost something like 70% in the last three weeks, most of it today. There will be many learning some important lessons right now.

Also, the market for 2nd-hand graphics cards is set to boom.

[Leon]

https://www.coinbase.com/charts?locale=en

This is a handy page to have a look at. Allows you to show hour / day / week / month / year. At one stage, I looked at an hourly one, and it was saying that some of them had dropped near 10% in one hour. Though it bounced a bit since.

[dodint]

Dow Joans is crashing? Of course it is, women only earn 78% of their potential.

[Leon]

Trump can't reply to that one.

He's strapped into a Tesla, about to be fired into orbit ;)

[Rare White Ape]

Damn millennials roughing up the status quo with their wild ideas.


https://youtu.be/aBr2kKAHN6M

[dodint]

He was born in 1971, not even close.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, a GenXer started SpaceX, but surely there are a lot of millennials working for him in order to send that car into space! :p

That stunt is just so awesome! The batteries in that car should allow the cameras to be on for a long time, right?

They should've also ask solar city to install panels on that car...

[Rare White Ape]

The car is now on a heliocentric orbit way out into space. It overshot Mars by quite a margin so it’ll go out past Ceres’ orbit.

The need for batteries has passed since it’s now probably too far away from ground stations to transmit video.

[Freude am Fahren]

Wow, passed Mars and made it out to the belt already? That's mighty impressive ;)


Third burn successful. Exceeded Mars orbit and kept going to the Asteroid Belt.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVZ0h3YW4AIc-9w.jpg

I noticed on some diagrams, it looks like the orbit bisects Earth's orbit. Are calculations done to make sure we don't have a Tesla hurling back at us at some point (slam into Mars)? Or is it going to stay out between Mars and the belt?

By the way, it would be really cool if The Expanse included it as some ancient relic in an episode.

[Rare White Ape]

The orbit does intersect with earth, but the chances of it coming back down are extraordinarily low.

If it does come back, it’s so small and light that it (and the upper stage that it’s attached to) will just burn up in the atmosphere.

For more information on a very rare and unlikely outcome, read about object J002E3, which was discovered in 2002.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J002E3

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, I kinda figured it wouldn't make reentry with any significant mass.

[Leon]

think positive, some day, somebody might get a free Tesla. Delivered.

[Dicknose]

Past Mars, in that tracking says it should go past.
No past, as in, has already past, that’s months away.

Intersting that once the rockets are off it’s said to “go ballistic”, which we take to mean totally wild. While actually it’s totally predicable, just not controllable.

[drew]

Would there be anything left of the Tesla if it tried to return, re-enty I mean?


That being said, maybe he should set that up. Just as a marketing ploy to launch his new line of cars. The Musk Meteor, The Tesla Comet, etc.

[Drachen596]

I'm sure it'd just burn up on re-entry.

I was also under the impression they took the cars batteries out for the launch as well.

[novicius]

No batteries and no drivetrain from what I understand.

[Rare White Ape]

I was about to ponder if the densest parts of the engine block would make it to the ground but nope, even in standard configuration it doesn’t have one of those :lol:

[Drachen596]

Pretty sure the copper windings in the motor would melt into nothingness.


Although I suspect the batteries would have made for quite an event if it had them still during a reentry.

[Leon]

Imagine if one day, it became such a valuable car, that they send out a mission to retrieve it.

Or it threatens to end the world, and they send out Bruce Willis to destroy it ;-)

[Crazed_Insanity]

All the 'organic' parts of the car such as rubber and carbon fiber should disintegrate due to solar radiation... the metal and glass parts might survive... so it's gonna look like star man is sitting in a stolen stripped vehicle by the time it make an encounter of somekind later on...