Teh Formula 1 Encyclopedia: 2018 Edition.

[FaultyMario]

- Give all teams a limited fuel allocation for each race weekend, or restrict fuel cell sizes (with no refuelling allowed during the race).


That's nearly impossible to police.

[Tom Servo]

I love those sounds, but to me F1 is not the sound. Sure it's a part of the sport that is missing, but it's just a small portion.

Considering I've watched hundreds of races on TV, and only two in person, it doesn't bother me that much. When I went to see them in person, it was more disappointing, but on TV, it's not a huge deal.

Not sure when you went to see them in person, but I saw them back in 2005 at Indy when they were V10s, then a couple of times at Austin after the turbo era started. Part of the reason I haven't gone back is the ludicrous ticket prices, but a big part was the noise. I remember watching qualifying in 2005 and it was just amazing. Shook every part of your body when they went by, howling, spitting fire on downshifts - it was like nothing else I'd ever heard. Austin was nothing like that.

F1 on TV isn't affected as much, but pretty much all road racing is better experienced visually on TV than it is in the stands. What made it worth going there was that you could *feel* the cars through that cacophony, that was something you just couldn't recreate at home, no matter how good your sound system is. Now you don't want to bother, and given that having a seat that's not on an uncomfortable bleacher is something like $1,000 per, just not interested in going to the races anymore. That could be COTA specific, as I didn't find it a particularly enjoyable track to be at, and I'd love to compare it to something like Monza or Spa, but that's even more money.

[Crazed_Insanity]

- Give all teams a limited fuel allocation for each race weekend, or restrict fuel cell sizes (with no refuelling allowed during the race).

- Over time, balance the need for speed against the need to produce gains in fuel economy. If the average speed/laptime/whatever over a season reaches a certain amount, then take some fuel away to lower that average again and slow the cars down.

- Any tyre manufacturer may enter, but they must supply the same tyres to all teams - no preferences should be given certain teams for better tires. Teams may pick whichever brand they want, and are allowed to change brands once throughout the season.

- Cars must be RWD with open wheel bodies and a minimum weight. No underbody aero (i.e. skirts) or fans. All other rules other than sporting and safety considerations are free and open.


I think these are great rules... except part of the tires rule that allows for teams switching mid-season? I'm sure no tire manufacturer wants to be dumped mid-season, right? Or imagine on certain races, Goodyear finds out that no team picked their tires. That would be embarrassing... Anyway, idea is good that teams are allowed to just pick the best tires to use, but I just don't see how this can be done contractually to mutual satisfaction...

Anyway, I particularly like the set fuel allocation rule. Forget engine formula. Imagine that over the decades down the road, which "engine formula" will emerge as a clear winner by natural selection? Turbo or naturally aspirated? How many cylinders?

[balki]

???
Mercedes dominated 2014 because of the new rules, changing all that will just mean a different team dominates until every car reaches the same formula (ie; almost everyone ends up running NA 90° 5L V10s, and the ones who don't will only be successful at Monza or Monaco and not in-between)

As much as I want that (say 100kg of fuel per race and some standard safety features) it will just go back to 4-6 years of Ferrari/Red Bull/Mercedes dominating. The FIA should just focus on maintaining decent downforce with less turbulence/easier following?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Those were just his ideals, of course it ain't happening.

But it sure would be a lot more interesting to find out which engine formula is really the best based on engineering natural selection, rather than a bogus formula by committee. This fuel rule also needs to be as static and unchanging as possible... and may only be changed when everybody catches up to the same level or when things get too dangerously fast.

Fuel limitation should also prevent teams from developing more down force(turbulent air) because additional drag will cost more fuel. Aerodynamicists will instead focus more on drag reduction... cleaner air should also benefit cars racing behind...

Stable rules should help cutting cost too.

They also need to lift limits for the smaller and slower teams out of the top 10 in championship standing... let them do as much as they want in order to catch up. Encourage the big players to perhaps help develop the smaller teams that can benefit them mutually. What's happening with Ferrari and Haas is something that's good for both teams and good for the sport overall I think...

[Rare White Ape]

Nope, my ideal calls for no help for the slower teams. Complete freedom to innovate is what will help them. If they’re given an artificial leg-up then it just causes the richer teams to spend more to compete, or the faster ones to turn the party mode dial and unlock previously unseen performance, and you’re back to the arms race.

I say we embrace the arms race and see what happens. Don’t lock every team into the exact same thing. If one is more successful then others will follow, and from there everyone has the choice to spend more and more to gain less and less. But my great hope is that you can also encourage engineers to go in a different direction and find a new niche that might turn out to be wildly successful, that doesn’t cost millions to develop in the short term. So yes, in that sense it would resemble natural selection.

To clarify on the tyre rule, it’s also designed so that nobody is locked into one set standard and has the freedom to compete. If a tyre manufacturer doesn’t want the embarrassment of losing all of its teams, then it needs to build a good set of tyres.

[JoeW]

Haven't followed MotoGp for awhile but back in the day you could run whatever tire you wanted to partner with. I distinctly remember when Cagiva came on board and had Pirellis...the only team with Pirellis. And boy did Pirellis get embarrassed in the beginning...Mamola basically had no chance so he would end up doing these ridiculous power slides just for show in front of the crowd.

Then when Lawson signed on, he brought Michelin tires and managed to actually win a race and be competitive. Of course much of that was also Eddie being a damn genius and helping Cagiva develop the damn thing into something pretty damn good.

So tires can fuck you or make you. Choose wisely ;)

[Blerpa]

All the stupid blatering about car manufacturers... meanwhile last year WTCC had its horrible last season and now it is getting up again as WTCR: a fusion of WTCC and the greatly going TCR.
And it is a World Cup, not a Championship by FIA rules. Why? Because, to fight what brought WTCC to death (and Group B, and Group C, and Can Am... shall we continue?) car manufacturer direct involvment is FORBIDDEN.
FUCK Car Manufacturers in autosports. Always.

EDIT for newbies: World Cup are for customer teams, Championship for manufacturer teams, per FIA titulation rules.

[The359]

Actually WTCR is still a World Championship. Direct factory involvement is not required, just a minimum requirement for number of manufacturers represented.

The FIA GT1 World Championship also forbade factory teams, but met the required minimum with 5-6 different manufacturers involved.

I believe the requirements are four manufacturers, and the season must take place in at least eight different countries and at least three continents.

[Rare White Ape]

Important point of difference:

Formula 1 has not collapsed due to lack of manufacturer involvement. It has outlived ALL of those other series.

[The359]

I just checked, apparently WTCR had been downgraded to World Cup.

Manufacturer involvement has kind of killed WEC LMP1, while at the same time WEC GTE is growing with direct factory involvement. There are however no privateers at all in the pro category, leaving it strictly a factory show.

[Blerpa]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_World_Touring_Car_Cup

"With titles for drivers and teams only the new series will receive "World Cup" rather than "World Championship" status. Manufacturers will be able to develop cars for competition that are then sold to privateer entrants and will also be allowed to provide ongoing support and development to those teams.[2]
The WTCR series will be capped at 26 entries with up to two wildcards nominated by the organizers at each race weekend. The entry cap will be in place for all races except for the Nurburgring Nordschleife. All Teams will have to enter a minimum two cars with an entry fee of 150,000 Euro.[39]
The tires will be supplied by Yokohama and the fuel by Panta."

[The359]

FIA GT1 only ever awarded to teams and drivers, and still held World Championship status, so someone is not quite right.

[MR2 Fan]

this is a layman's question, but wouldn't the manufacturers not being involved in F1 cause them to no longer share innovations that eventually reach the road cars? I mean we have paddle shifting, better traction control, and KERS types of systems that get their roots from F1 developments.

[FaultyMario]

IP is IP and it will get to the market.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Original Honda NSX built post Honda's world championship wins, though it's not even using the same F-1 winning turbo formula, still ended up with rave reviews.

2nd generation NSX uses the current F-1 engine formula..., but with its F-1 car running either with smoke or near the back of the pack, just isn't very convincing.

IP isn't that easily transferable.

NSX using the Mercedes "badge" would probably sell more! ;)

Ferrari is the established benchmark. I'd much rather prefer other manufacturers or rich guys joining F-1 to see if they can beat that benchmark until they run out of money.

F-1 without Ferrari would be like Indycars without Indy500. Without any manufacturers, particularly without Ferrari, I'm not sure if I'd even follow F-1 anymore. Just like I stopped following CART and IRL when they split up.

I just hope the participants will learn to work together instead of breaking up.

[Rare White Ape]

The main advancements that come from motorsports and end up in road vehicles are fuel savings, tyres, and safety.

I’d say the single best one would be radial tyres, as they significantly improved all three.

[Freude am Fahren]

Also, manufacturer teams =/= manufacturer suppliers.

Honda was just an engine supplier when they built the NSX. Mercedes didn't have a team in F1 for more than 50 years, but was one of the most successful engine suppliers in F1 for a couple decades. Renault ditto, with a shorter time out as a full team.

I can't think of a successful engine maker that wasn't a major manufacturer.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The main advancements that come from motorsports and end up in road vehicles are fuel savings, tyres, and safety.

I’d say the single best one would be radial tyres, as they significantly improved all three.

Totally agree.

Now, today's f1 tires seems to be as high profile as tracker tires.

Also I'm looking forward to introduction of halos on road cars... :D

[IMOA]

Also, manufacturer teams =/= manufacturer suppliers.

Honda was just an engine supplier when they built the NSX. Mercedes didn't have a team in F1 for more than 50 years, but was one of the most successful engine suppliers in F1 for a couple decades. Renault ditto, with a shorter time out as a full team.

I can't think of a successful engine maker that wasn't a major manufacturer.

Cosworth, Tag and Repco.

[FaultyMario]

I'd say Magnetti and Brembo also benefited in the consumer market from being suppliers to sports teams.

[Blerpa]

Cosworth, Tag and Repco.

Also Ferrari, Cooper, BRM and Matra.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think Ferrari has made it as a 'major' manufacturer now.

[Blerpa]

How? It makes sport cars and that's it. It is not a major manufacturer at all.

[Blerpa]

8,014 units produced in 2016. That is abysmal compared to major ones...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_manufacturers_by_motor_vehicle_production Look at 2016.

Fiat Chrysler produced a total of 4,681,457 units in 2016. Ferrari is a tiny fraction of that.

Also, from Ferrari's wikipedia: "As of 2018, the estimated total of Ferrari built and sold cars in whole company history was about 190,000."
That's plenty nothing in a single year for a major manufacturer.

A well known brand? Sure. A brand of high value? Surely. But no major manufacturer at all.
Italy has 5 companies in the Fortune 500 and Ferrari doesn't barely approach their revenue.
And by the way, Ferrari is indipendent from Fiat Chrysler... so, it is your tiny luxury sport car maker and that's it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, not sure what business metric to use to qualify somebody as a 'major'.

When it became part of Fiat, I think they clearly became a 'major' manufacturer. Now that they divorced, does that really make Ferrari a tiny player again?

From branding point of view, it's a globally known name even for non-autoenthusiasts. Most people don't need to google the name to know what this company is about.

Anyway, I think it's 'major' enough that Ferrari can still thrive in the future even if F1 cease to exist.

I just think it's important to have as many 'major' companies like that racing each other... compared to have bunch of racing companies who's sole mission is to win races... if they don't win a few races..., then their finances falls apart and then they disappear. Surely that's not healthy either. For these mini-racing teams, tiny Ferrari still has an unfair advantage over them even if FIA isn't favoring Ferrari. Need more companies like Mercedes and Renault and even Red Bull to make Ferrari work harder for its reputation. Ideally, I just want to see F1 as a R&D proving ground for international manufacturers... with various new technologies trickling down to our day to day vehicles.

[Rare White Ape]

I think the core of the argument is not that they’re there, it’s that the big manufacturers use racing as a marketing instrument, then pull out when the boardroom decides that costs become too high or the series is no longer popular/relevant enough to sustain their involvement, leaving said series to languish and die.

But were those series that died (Like the WTC) going to go anyway, or were they truly killed by manufacturer involvement? As I touched on before, F1 has the prestige and the popularity to sustain any number of manufacturers even if they pull the pin. I wouldn’t be worried about Mercedes (for example) at all; if they’re beating everyone all the time it’s because they’re objectively the best, if your favourite team is not winning them they need to get better and lift the level of competition, if you hate Lewis Hamilton then great and I do too!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I don't think we have to worry about F-1 ever going away just because the 'major' manufacturers pulled out... nor would I worry if a lot of them decided to join. More the merrier IMHO.

I'm more worried about the smaller traditional f-1 teams barely making ends meet. More and more of them have disappeared. Dwindling # of teams can't be good for the sport.

The only risk for F1 that I see is eventually auto manufacturers become more and more electrified. F-1 will then either merger with F-E or face extinction. But that's probably decades down the road.

[balki]

The FIA will meet with technical directors from all F1 teams in Bahrain to discuss ways of urgently increasing overtaking opportunities for the 2019 season.

The gathering is a direct response to the lack of passing moves seen in the Australian GP, albeit at a track that rarely sees much action.

There is some urgency to the discussions as in theory rule changes for next season have to be confirmed by the FIA before April 30th. Any subsequent changes have to be passed unanimously by the teams.

Ross Brawn has hired a team of aerodynamicists - headed by former Williams man Jason Sommerville - to help shape the future rules, and improving overtaking has been a key goal for the group, focusing particularly on how the aerodynamic surfaces of cars are disturbed by the ones ahead.

Although the focus is primarily on 2021, Brawn said recently the results are already positive enough to consider making changes earlier.

Two key changes for 2019 will be discussed on Saturday - to the front wing, which has emerged from Sommerville's research, and to the rear, which is understood to be an FIA concept.

The rear proposal is for a bigger rear wing flap, which would create a bigger effect when DRS is employed.

However, that does not address the fundamental issue of the current high downforce cars being unable to follow each other.

The Sommerville idea is to improve the quality of the airflow onto the car behind by simplifying the front wing.

That would involve the removal of certain elements that are specifically designed to control the airflow around the front wheels.

It's this flow - which starts with the front wing of the car ahead and interacts with the turbulence around the front wheels - that subsequently makes it difficult for the car behind to follow.

Removing the extra elements would slow the lead car slightly, and allow the following car to get closer.

It's understood both ideas could be incorporated into the 2019 rules.
yes, please

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not convinced by the removal of elements of the front wing idea.

As long as there are wings that produce downforce, whether front or back, in the wake of the vehicle will result in some sort of up-washing flow. It's often made visible during rain called the rooster tail.

Naturally if your car is close behind that 'rooster tail' flow pushing you upwards, you'll suffer a loss of downforce making the chasing car less drivable.

Only real fix would be to remove wings all together so that racers can race as in go karts or NASCAR.

But then again leaders will be at a disadvantage because chasers drafting behind could zoom by much easier...

So I guess best thing to do is probably to keep some wings so leaders won't lose out, but not so much so that'll disturb the chaser too much...

[CudaMan]

Even in GT3 cars, which have much simpler aerodynamic enhancements and don't make anywhere near the downforce of F1, the loss of downforce behind another car is noticeable. Not as bad as in F1 but it does make overtaking and following closely more difficult.

[Tom Servo]

I really think the only way to increase passing would be to do away with qualifying. Your starting spot is purely random chance. Otherwise, when you have cars that the best drivers in the world can drive at the limit reliably and rarely make mistakes being slotted into an order based on who's the fastest, you're automatically just not going to have a lot of passing. They basically start in the order they're going to end unless they make a mistake, and at this point the cars and drivers are good enough that they rarely make mistakes.

'Course, what top team or driver will want to take part in a series where they can have the fastest combination of car and keep getting stuck starting dead last and getting caught up in turn one incidents?

Otherwise, it's make the cars harder to drive so they start making mistakes. I think that's why rain races are so much more exciting, suddenly the cars are a lot harder to drive and it becomes much more of a contest of who's willing to push the envelope more, knowing if you go one step too far it's the end of your day rather than just going into a runoff area and maybe banging up the undertray a bit.

[dodint]

BTCC used to flip the grid at random, right?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't like that idea.

Winning pole position should still be something racers aspire to...

I'd say give championship points for qualifying positions just as much as race position points.

If you have awesome 1 lap pace, great!

Now, on race day, starting order would be reversed of qualifying position.

That way if we have a future Ayrton Senna driving a Sauber, he could win races by holding people up! ;)

Anyway, this way, it'll also force higher paid aerodynamicists to design cars that can run better in turbulent air so the pole sitter will have a better chance of passing people.

[Rare White Ape]

V8 Supercars did reverse grid races all the time.

They were fucked. Heaps of accidents.

They probably still do them but I stopped watching that crap years ago so I don’t know. I’m too much of a purist to stomach TV friendly stunts like reversed grids.

The only way to encourage passing is to make the cars narrower, like as narrow as a motorcycle. Maybe take two wheels away while you’re at it. And put the driver on top in the breeze, so that they’re flung at a tyre barrier if they screw up. Should spice things up a little.

[Crazed_Insanity]

We're just bunch of crazy nuts.

Good think nobody asked any of us for suggestions.

[Rare White Ape]

As Kimi Räikkonen said, he doesn’t give a fuck if he’s two seconds off the pace in qualifying as long as they win every Sunday.

Wasn’t it CART or ChampCar who gave a point for pole position and a point for fastest lap?

Look at Valentino Rossi, objectively the greatest rider to ever tell a MotoGP bike what to do, has never had consistently good qualifying performance. Back in his dominant days, if he was on the third row you’d be assured that he’d win a race. If he was on row 1 or 2, you fear his potential for race day and pretty much give up. Nowadays where riders 15 years younger than him can out-qualify him on 2nd-rate machinery, he still finds himself in 3rd or 4th by the exit of turn 1 and on the podium at the finish. The guy is 37 years old!

It’s 01:30 on a Saturday, I’ve been driving since 3pm Friday and I’m two scotches deep. Random thoughts here, but I’m trying to say that qualifying is not the ultimate indicator of race pace, and it won’t fix F1’s passing problem, which I think is endemic to the sport. I can’t think of any year since I was born that F1 has been exciting on a lap-to-lap basis. Race-to-race, yes. Season-to-season, definitely. But no one era of F1 in the last 35 years has held anyone’s attention like CART or MotoGP has.

F1 has for a long time been a sport by-the-numbers, where a Schumacher Ferrai’s precise defeat of a Minardi is more akin to the US government dropping one laser-guided smart bomb on a primary school in Belgrade than it is a gladiatorial sporting contest between two equals. It will always be like this and drivers will always perform like fighter pilots, tasked with bumping up lap times by 1/100th of a second for the next ten laps to ensure that they come out ahead of the rival car at the next pit stop.

Everything is so tightly managed. There is probably no real room for driver involvement aside from hitting that mark lap after lap according to scientific precision. Welcome to F1.

[Rare White Ape]

Man, Ross Brawn should be held up as one of the greatest figures in F1 history. Look at the things he achieved. He helmed the greatest F1 team of all time to multiple world championships with ultimate dominance, then went off as an independent and did it again with the scraps left behind by a failed manufacturer (which went on to continue its domonance to this day). That, my friends, is pure sport.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'd say amen to that!

[Blerpa]

Great thoughts RWA, I agree on many of them.

[Tom Servo]

Before it sounds like I'm advocating for either of the things I mentioned, I'm definitely not. I'd prefer it to be like it is and accept that passing is Very Fucking Hard(tm). I just don't think any of these other schemes, like changing the front wing or changing DRS will actually lead to increased passing unless it gets ridiculous, at which point the sport becomes as much of a joke as it'd be if they did randomized grid spots or filled it with nearly undriveable cars.

Even Hamilton's idea of getting rid of a lot of the runoff areas/going back to gravel, so overdoing it is a way bigger penalty than it is now, is pretty much a non-starter. Safety's always going to beat that out, and having tons of runoff room is the safest way to do it.

[FaultyMario]

Safety's always going to beat that out, and having tons of runoff room is the safest way to do it.

Even Tilke has admitted that the excess amount of paved runoff is not mainly for safety. In places like Abu Dhabi, track owners get a lot of their income from track days and if their overconfident and underskilled clients put their Audi R8s into the wall they complain a lot about the repair bills. So the solution, when the tracks promise to make them feel like Hamiltons is to have all that pavement so they can regain control and not dent their egos.

[FaultyMario]

...and Hamilton will not start from the front row in Sakhir. He gets 5-place grid drop for a gearbox change.

[dodint]

Pity, that.

[Tom Servo]

Even Tilke has admitted that the excess amount of paved runoff is not mainly for safety. In places like Abu Dhabi, track owners get a lot of their income from track days and if their overconfident and underskilled clients put their Audi R8s into the wall they complain a lot about the repair bills. So the solution, when the tracks promise to make them feel like Hamiltons is to have all that pavement so they can regain control and not dent their egos.

I did not know that...that's sad.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah same here. But it makes complete sense.

But that's not a total excuse for his terrible tracks.

And I always have said if you just put a car width of grass between the track and runoff, and make curbs now wider than half the width of a car, it would solve a lot of it.

As for the cars, what about an inverse DRS. Basically whenever a car is within 1 sec of the car in front (constantly, via the timing all around the track), you can have increased downforce.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That actually kinda make sense. More downforce just to stabilize the car as you follow closely, and nobody would keep it at maximum downforce all the time because it'll also slow you down if you're not drafting off of someone in front...

But implementation probably won't be easy because you'll need to have some sort of linkage to the nose cone... and if you need to swap out a damaged nose, pit crew will also have to remember to connect this front wing control...

[FaultyMario]

Here's the quote from Tilke (https://inews.co.uk/essentials/lifestyle/cars/car-features/formula-1-hermann-tilke-on-designing-a-f1-circuit/):


“I know people say that if there is only gravel, it is more of a penalty if you go off, which is true.
“But if you have a private track day and somebody goes off in their Porsche or AMG, then they are likely to be paying for new parts. €7000 is an expensive spin.”

In other words, F1 tracks aren’t just used for F1 races. It’s all commercial. If you’re into trackdays you might have cause to be grateful for the disappearance of gravel.

I think we all know that when He says "AMG", He really means Audi.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaMWBYAXUAI22j3.jpg

Not only are both Hondas in front of both McLarens, but Gasly is BotR.

[FaultyMario]

Hamilton starts on softs which should be an advantage for attempting to cut time on the pitstops against his championships rivals, but I don't know how much he'll be able to push from ninth on the grid given that Valtteri had to back off in Australia to avoid overheating his engine in traffic. I expect Magnussen and Hulk to hold him off at the start.

Max Verstappen starting 15 behind the McLarens should provide for an entertaining L1.

[samoht]

Saying sayonara to Honda funding: £50m
Buying Renault engines: £15m
Paying Alonso's salary themselves: £20m
Seeing Toro Rosso beat them into Q3 with a Honda engine: Priceless

[Godson]

:lol:

[Blerpa]

Saw a great F2 race today: Norris and Markelov outstanding, tons of passes. Tons.
Let's see: same track as F1, same design as F1, same type of engine of F1 (turbo V6), similar vehicle dimensions as F1. 2 tyres compounds with 1 mandatory pitstop to switch them, even halo on these cars.
What else? Less aerodinamics. Spec cars. I rest my case.

[Godson]

I'm pretty sure Australian GP has always been shit for passing...

[FaultyMario]

:lol:

You laugh but you didn't have to pay the extra £45M for shortening the contract.

[FaultyMario]

Priceless

3007

[Godson]

You laugh but you didn't have to pay the extra £45M for shortening the contract.

I laugh, because all they did last year was bitch about the powerplants. Now they have a new contract, and continue to suck.

I fell in love with McLaren when Coulthard and Hakkinen were drivers. When they separated from Mercedes it was a sign they have lost thier way. Since then, all they have done is whine about other things. This forces me to deduce they merely just want to play the victim role.

Make your bed, don't whine when it smelled like vomit from drinking too much the night before.

[FaultyMario]

Oh I know, it's just that thomas' post forgot to add that. McLaren apparently had to reimburse Honda for 45M pounds for cutting their contract short.

[Rare White Ape]

Spec cars.

Over my dead body.

[balki]

Aero’s my only big problem with the current cars, and their trying to address it unlike Bernie/Max Mosley
The racing is still better now than 15 years ago with the awesome V10s
Plus, Mercedes lets their drivers race each other.

Agree with McLaren’s mgmt whining too much (Williams ran circles around them when they were both using Mercedes engines in 2014)

[dodint]

"“Our American friends assume that it could hurt the feminine feelings when employing young women to carry signs,” Boeri told Monaco-Matine, a local newspaper. “Our hostesses complete model and PR schools. They perform during the Grand Prix at events that are in line with their training. And they are paid for it.”"

Monaco will have none of America's White Knighting, will allow grid girls to work.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-05/grid-girls-saga-continues-as-monaco-defies-f1-ruling

[CudaMan]

Solution seems simple. Two to three meter wide strip of grass to define track limits, with paved runoff for safety or keeping cars nice or whatever. Racing fans win with this one too.

[dodint]

That was always my hope, too.

I have seen tracks put astroturf there as it's too hard to keep real grass alive at times.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yup, that's always been my position. :up:

And Billi, don't forget, we had adjustable front wing flaps before DRS.

ESPN has taken a different angle this weekend. They aired qualifying without commercial interruption. They cut-out a bit awkwardly after the on track interviews though. I'm surprised they didn't throw in some spots between sessions.

We'll see how the race goes tomorrow.

[Rare White Ape]

Aero’s my only big problem with the current cars, and their trying to address it unlike Bernie/Max Mosley


Aero has always been under scrutiny in an attempt to make the racing more exciting. F1 has done away with underbody exhausts, front end plates, chimneys, airbox wings, winglets in front of rear wheels, and of course ground effects and side skirts. Do you remember the x-wings that used to poke up above the cockpit, circa 1997? Those too.

They also made the cars narrower so that they didn’t punch as big a hole in the air in an effort to promote close following and more passing.

None of this has made the racing any more exiting. The teams always respond with more simulation time which makes them great at hotlapping but still very sensitive to dirty air.

[CudaMan]

Saw a great F2 race today: Norris and Markelov outstanding, tons of passes. Tons.

I was bored so I watched the race based on your post. It did not disappoint. Some great stuff. Markelov super impressive, got a bit sloppy in the last couple laps against Sette Camara who really shined in his defense of P2.

[FaultyMario]

Did Ron Dennis pop one of his uber expensive wines in celebration of Honda's 4th place finish?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I guess Honda really is on its way back on top!?!?

If only mclaren Alonso were also in the mix, they could be challenging for the win?

Anyway, another seemly surreal thing was seeing Williams finishing dead last!

[FaultyMario]

What's unreal about inexperienced drivers being unable to develop a car?

[Crazed_Insanity]

That a team with such heritage is sitting dead last.

What's it's annual budget? Surely it's not the financially smallest team on the grid?

It's also mind boggling how the other Mercedes powered cars are running like they have old Honda power plants. FI and Williams cars are really that horrible?

[dodint]

Watched the race uncut on the WatchESPN app on my FireStick. Beautiful.

[dodint]

Oh.

Where we at, Verstappen Fan Club?

[FaultyMario]

Now we can fight!

[dodint]

Yes! Let us draw loud conclusions from small sample sizes!

[Godson]

Verstappen is a wrecking ball that would make Miley Cyrus proud.

[FaultyMario]

Yes! Let us draw loud conclusions from small sample sizes!

What? I found Gasly's go at Alonso's pep talk funny

[Freude am Fahren]

I think the Ferrari is the engine to have this year.

[Freude am Fahren]

Watched the race uncut on the WatchESPN app on my FireStick. Beautiful.

Yeah, entire race was commercial free on ESPN 2 as well.

Nice comeback from ESPN on that. And you have to give credit to Mothers, the sponsor that allows it to happen.

[CudaMan]

Gotta respect Vettel for this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15RCVLgwSx0

Pretty good race. I didn't think Vettel would be able to hang on to the lead by the end. I have a feeling Lewis would have made it happen if he was in Bottas' shoes in the last 10 laps.

Hartley and Grosjean seemed to have atrocious races compared to their teammates.

[Yobbo NZ]

Hartley seems to have more race pace than Gasley, 10th fastest lap time this race and ahead of Gasley again.
Although that penalty seemed a bit weird, 30 seconds(?) due to Perez not allowing him back in front, seems rather laughable.
And a 10 second penalty for contact when Verstapen recieved nothing for the contact on Hamilton.
Although he did retire due to that contact, so there is that.
Yes I'm waving my fan boy flag, but hey, when it's been 23 years or so since a New Zealander had been in F1, I think I'm justified.

[FaultyMario]

The Hartley/Perez penalties loophole need to be closed up. That situation is so inconsequential and the rule so harsh, that if it had been in place maybe Senna would have used it in Suzuka 1990.

[CudaMan]

IIRC Hartley pitted late for fresh tires, which probably accounts for him being faster than Gasly on fastest race lap. It seemed like an odd strategy - my WAG is Hartley was just running out of tire life, hit the old cliff.

[JoeW]

Man that Ferrari pit injury was gruesome to watch. Snapped that thing in a couple of places. There needs to be some sort of rule where they can't even let the car off the jack until it's ready to go. The two second pit era will come to an end but drivers wouldn't be able to go anywhere until the car hits the ground. Nowadays they are so amped to go that as soon as the car hits the ground they see the green light and just hit it. They can't see pit members off to the right waving their arms.

On another subject...this race was one of the few races where I watched in real time (no fast forward etc) from start to finish. Just some great action throughout. Grosjean screwed up what could have been a great Mag/Gas battle to the end. Dude, if your tires are shot and you are pitting next lap then let your teammate through, assface.

Anyways...great stuff. Hopefully RedBull gets the gremlins sorted and gets in there.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, Max fanboys need to release that pent up frustration!!!

[JoeW]

I can’t truly embrace my inner fanboi until RB get both their cars reliable. Right now I’m happy to see the level playing field up front as well as the mid pack teams.

[dodint]

So you're only a Max fan when he's winning? That sounds about right.

[JoeW]

I’m a fan of many drivers. But to unleash true sarcastic fanboism one must first have equipment that can finish races.

Who doesn’t like Ric? Hard not to be a fan of that smile and attitude. I like Ver primarily because all of you hate him or at the very least show disdain. I still think he and Ric will fight for podiums this year...when they start being able to finish races.

I love the underdogs. But more importantly I love the battles. Close racing keeps me watching.

Aus was just meh but Bah was great fun to watch. I even rewound certain moves on track!

Hopefully China turns out the same kind of racing.

[dodint]

The most curious thing about this whole dialogue is you characterizing running over another racers front wing as 'equipment failure.' His race was over when he had to drive 2.5 miles on three tires, regardless of what happened afterwards.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think his point was that max shouldn't be racing with a heavily penalized Hamilton in the 1st place!

If RB delivered a better car, none of that would happen! :p

[Godson]

I think his point was that max shouldn't be racing with a heavily penalized Hamilton in the 1st place!

If RB delivered a better car, none of that would happen! :p

Bullshit, Max has rear-ended Ferraris left and right, punted his own teammate off, and ultimately driven with reckless abandon since he got to f1. I'm amazed he has finished this many races to date.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaTnaGXWsAAXk9L.jpg

Get well soon Francesco 👍 #FerrariMechanic #Ferrari #BahrainGP #F12018 #F1

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaRUfMvWAAAW5om.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bullshit, Max has rear-ended Ferraris left and right, punted his own teammate off, and ultimately driven with reckless abandon since he got to f1. I'm amazed he has finished this many races to date.

Senna and Schumacher have punted lots of folks off too.

This is not Grojean or Sato or JV we're talking about here. This dude is the future rain maestro. I thought he has already proven himself.

But anyway, there were lots of Senna and Schuey haters too I suppose.

[Freude am Fahren]

Had to be done.

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3010&d=1523316671

[Godson]

Dive bombing and multiple collisions in one lap aren't the same as contact. The guy is a fucking hazard to anyone around him.

[Godson]

I could see ricciardo as second fiddle to Vettel.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'd like to see Ricciardo forcing Vettel playing 2nd fiddle again in a different team. But Ferrari would probably clamp down on that harder than Red Bull.

[JoeW]

And it is this kind of treatment that will continue to fuel my interest in Ver throughout the season. I tried to throw a couple of nice posts out there in general about the season so far and how much fun last race was to watch. But if you guys want to pile on because I like to see certain teams and drivers do well then by all means do so. If I can provide fuel for your flamethrower then I am happy to do so. But if that’s the only reason you guys keep throwing shit like monkies in a cage then I feel sorry for you.

I don’t currently dislike anyone on the grid. But every race has a few talking points where a frustrated driver will show his dark side now and then. Stroll had a post race interview where he sounded like he did not appreciate being a Williams employee. Basically just verbally trashed the car altogether. Does he not realize he’s awfully lucky to be in that seat?

[dodint]

I opened my comments praising the coverage and race. It didn't occur to me later that you were absent (again) as Max finished in the back of the field. Then Billi joined your cause. Hah.

[Godson]

I enjoyed the race very much. Doesn't change my opinion that Max has zero respect for his fellow drivers and their safety. This includes his teammates.

[Blerpa]

I enjoyed the race, I called Ferrari's bluff, Hamilton would have passed Vettel if he was in Bottas' position, Verstappen would find himself in place in 70s and 80s F1, Stroll and Sirotkin may be not that good, and probably and crucially mediocre at car development, but Williams car is terrible, Gasly was really good and I think his great race it was more down to his skills than Toro Rosso real value, Grosjean getting beat makes me happy, Ricciardo in Ferrari would get a big veto by Vettel, but if it would happen he would proceed to embarass him again, kudos to Magnussen, Sainz is really having a troubled start of the season, Force India is sucking big time, Sauber is laughable. Kimi was very unlucky. Hartley either starts to perform or keep being cheap to stay in the team, otherwise he will be gone by the end of the season.

And oh, it's not the duty of the driver to check the mirrors if he is given green flag to go while pitting. There's a person designed to just check everything is ok to give green... sunday, as other times, this person fucked up. It happens.
Also criticism of Verstappen is laughable. Decide what you want from F1: processional crap or those good ole days when Gilles Villeneuve smashed as many cars as the total history production of Koenisegg while scrapping big time with other drivers. It was a race accident. That's it.
Another note: there were times when Williams sucked big time. Really big time. And those weren't only when they started as a measly private back-of-the-grid small team. So nothing new.

I always get surprised by how much people ignore of F1 history making assumptions only based upon the last 10-20 years of racing.
Sato and JV were megaton level better drivers than Grosjean. Schumi was hated by Ferrari fans till he went to Ferrari. Vettel was hated by Ferrari fans till he went to Ferrari. Senna was hated by Ferrari fans (and not only them) before he could get to a Ferrari - obviously he was made a martyr after he died (to be clear on where I side: I cried a whole day when he died. And yes, he was ruthless. He would have loved Valentino Rossi). Ferrari fans - and people with their head in their asses - hate Hamilton till he will go to Ferrari. Same happened with Alonso too.

Also, it's hilarious to see all the hate Hamilton gets, for his personality, his out of track antics and his opinions. He would have been perfect for 70s and 80s F1.
And what do you know? Those eras are the most sought after by people asking for a F1 reinassance, also in driver behaviour and presence. Hilarious, I tell you.
People wishing for history they pretty ignore, misunderstand and/or didn't really experience directly.

[balki]

http://www.thelovelyplants.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/topiary-f1.png

[Blerpa]

https://twitter.com/RaikkonenOficia/status/983288686468063232

3012

[2ndMoparMan]

I hate seeing pit crew members getting hurt.

[Blerpa]

I truly hope we all do.
And drivers as well, no matter how much loathing or hatred we feel for any of them.

[JoeW]

I had just typed all that up this morning until my screen refreshed and saw Blerpa had said it all :)

[Tom Servo]

JV [was] megaton level better drivers

Them's fightin' words. Nobody's shittier than JV.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, entire race was commercial free on ESPN 2 as well.

Nice comeback from ESPN on that. And you have to give credit to Mothers, the sponsor that allows it to happen.

I didn't realize that it was Mothers' sponsorship that allowed that. Full credit to ESPN, it was really, really nice to see a full broadcast without interruption. I hope they can keep that kind of thing going.

[Blerpa]

That is amazing value, indeed. I didn't even know what Mothers was before this thread and that made me google it. Car Waxes and Cleaners, right? Amazing power of advertising.

[MR2 Fan]

Them's fightin' words. Nobody's shittier than JV.

QFT

[Rare White Ape]

JV is the only mad cunt who I can recall that had a near-suicidal desire to see a car go flat-out up Eau Rouge without lifting off the pedal.

He broke a few of them in the process. Spectacularly.

Mad respect.

[Reynard]

I have no problem admitting when I was wrong... and boy was I wrong about ESPN. It was just announced that Mother's will be the presenting sponsor for the remainder of the season and all the races will be commercial free from here on out. Wow. Shocked and amazed. I will not be trying the streaming service, whenever that launches, after all. :cool:

[Rare White Ape]

That’s awesome!

I’d be sending emails saying thanks and buying their products.

[Freude am Fahren]

Indeed, I was thinking about firing up the old twitter account for the first time in forever to thank ESPN and Mothers and let them know I'll be using their products.

[IMOA]

Basically I'd also agree with everything Blerpa wrote. Couple of things I'll add based on some stuff I've seen pop up in other forums

- I agree we all agree that it's terrible that a member of the pitcrew got hurt but we don't need to turn the sport upside down every time someone gets hurt. F1 is dangerous, lots of jobs are fwiw, but the danger will never go. The stuff on autosport where a group of people are wailing and demanding the FIA does something and mandates things like minimum pitstop times shows how little some people watching have even a basic understanding of what the sport actually is.

- I may have said it here before, I have elsewhere, but I think Lewis is the James Hunt of the current generation (just quite a bit more talented). The biggest problem a large group of people have with him, while at the same time idolising James Hunt, is that this time they're the grumpy old man complaining about the youngfolk having fun.

[FaultyMario]

Agree with you on both points. On the subject of Francesco Cigarini, It's a shame but it is important to note that it was a bit of a freak accident because it resulted from dropping the car to try and get leverage to get the nut off, not a threading issue like with the Haas. The problem here is that that happens because the fastening system is designed for efficient ingress and egress. I have no idea how that could be made safer.

About Hamilton, yes, he's probably the most gifted. driver. ever. He's also one of the hardest working too. As for his partying, I could care less, as a fan I appreciate more a personality like Vettel's or Rubens' but that's because I'm a nerd like them.

It's Alonso I can't stand.

[Rare White Ape]

I don't mind the young’uns having fun, as long as they’re not complete wankers while they do it :lol:

[Godson]

Interesting, I kinda feel like Kimi is more Hunt-esque.

But I wasn't alive when he was around. So...

[Tom Servo]

On the broadcast, I think I remember them saying that the red/green light system in the pits is automated, basically just can tell if the car is on the ground and if the wheel nuts are on securely, but that there's a person involved that can override the green light in exactly this sort of case. I'd argue that the appropriate safety change here is that instead of having a human there to prevent the green, a human has to intervene to allow the green. Whoever that person is has to hit a button when they see all four wheels come off to arm the green light, then it can turn on automatically when the car is dropped. Whitelist vs. blacklist - if that human doesn't verify that the pit stop has gone according to procedure, the green light won't come on.

[Godson]

See, that's what makes more sense. I'd bet there are magnets or pressure sensors on the ground that do the reading.

[balki]

doesn't explain why the Haas' got the greenlights
Does anyone still use the lollipop system?

[Crazed_Insanity]

That'll put tremendous pressure on one 'lollipop' person though... with so many pit crew and so many things going on, not sure if it's a one person job. They really should just minimize # of pit crews out there... that'll help make that the lollipop persons job easier if they go back to that...

Anyway, my take on Hamilton is that he's the James hunt + ayrton senna!
Too bad his lauds+Prost nemesis has been stuck in a slower car most of the time... ;)

[Tom Servo]

doesn't explain why the Haas' got the greenlights
Does anyone still use the lollipop system?

I'm assuming each team has their own system. As is, I remember Ferrari going to the lights vs. a lollipop man long before other teams did.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm guessing they have sensors that detect whether the nut is back on or not. If all 4 nuts are on, cross threaded or not, green light.

[Tom Servo]

That'll put tremendous pressure on one 'lollipop' person though... with so many pit crew and so many things going on, not sure if it's a one person job.

There already is tremendous pressure. The big difference between those two systems is that a mistake on one might result in longer pitstops, while the other one results in multiple leg fractures.

[dodint]

About Hamilton, yes, he's probably the most gifted. driver. ever.

Can't believe this blasphemy went completely unchecked.

To take an analogy from American Football, Hamilton is a system quarterback. Any proficient F1 driver can drive that car to a championship (see: Button). Take him off script and out of his comfort zone and he becomes mentally unstable; look at the last race, literally panicking when the radio was malfunctioning and he didn't have a team of engineers to tell him how to drive.

Good? Yes. Gifted...best driver ever? Yeah, no. If you put Hamilton against the 'field' of all F1 drivers in history he's not number one, no way.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I just think F1 pits are way too chaotic right now. Lollipop man's job is also almost like no-win situation. Slight mistake of being too early will cause somebody to get hurt... and if you play it too safe, you'll cost race positions.

If anything, I think an automated light system still should be superior than lollipop man. I'm beginning to think perhaps Ferrari's setup missed something... which also cause Haas to screw up in a similar fashion. Maybe both human and automated system need to be in place just to be safer...

Another simple fix is to make sure that you don't stand in front of the car/tire at all. That broken leg could've been avoided if that tire changer switched position and stood behind the car.

[FaultyMario]

Good? Yes. Gifted...best driver ever? Yeah, no. If you put Hamilton against the 'field' of all F1 drivers in history he's not number one, no way.

I've long held that he is the best at feeling a car, if a bit conformable at putting in the hardwork. For that you'd have Rosberg, who became WC almost purely on busting his ass.

He's a very complete driver, you can see bits of Hakkinen in his one lap pace and a lot of Senna in his BS PR stunts.

Edit: I said "most gifted driver ever" meaning he came to F1 with the most raw talent.

[balki]

I don't know, you can put JV in that "he came to F1 with the most raw talent" boat, Max as well.
I've grown to respect Hamilton a lot these last few years, but he hasn't been Senna/Schumi when he was given a good but not great car. I'd argue Vettel and Alonso are as good as Hamilton .

[Crazed_Insanity]

Alonso is definitely one of the greats. I was willing to give Vettel the same title as well until Ricciardo beat the crap out of him. I really like to see the 2 of them match up again to see exactly who's really better. Was that just because Vettel was off his game or not? So to me, Vettel is only questionably great at this point.

Rosberg is good, at least good enough to beat Schumacher, who's probably a bit off his prime though.

I think it's pretty clear, as teammates, the championships were always Hamilton's to lose. Clearly Hamilton is better than Rosberg.

Also as a rookie, Hamilton sure showed Alonso.

I personally have little doubt Hamilton could beat Senna on the track if God would allow such race to happen. However, since God has predestined Senna to be #1 at his time, God naturally had to delay the birth of Hamilton... :p

BTW, as a fanboi, Max is currently probably the only one who has the potential to be one of the greats. Hope he won't continue to mess up or prematurely kill himself... Ricciardo is really tough for me to classify too. Clearly he is way better than just good, but still not so sure how great he really is. Beating the crap out of Vettel was really impressive though. He also has shown to be way more consistent than Max. Still, not sure why I'm not a huge fan of him. Maybe it's because he forced Capt. Picard to drink off of his stinky show one time... ;)

[IMOA]

I've long held that he is the best at feeling a car, if a bit conformable at putting in the hardwork. For that you'd have Rosberg, who became WC almost purely on busting his ass.

He's a very complete driver, you can see bits of Hakkinen in his one lap pace and a lot of Senna in his BS PR stunts.

Edit: I said "most gifted driver ever" meaning he came to F1 with the most raw talent.

Jim Clark

[FaultyMario]

Jim's untouchable.

[Freude am Fahren]

I was falling asleep before the leaders pitted, so decided to get up and brush my teeth and watch the rest in the morning. Then all hell broke loose.

Max needs to just chill. So much talent, and so little brains. First fail on Hamilton was dumb. Move on Vettel, I kinda get. He saw Vettel make a bit of a mistake and saw a possible opening, but he just wasn't close enough for that.

Kinda crazy how close all the cars were at the end of the race, even with the safety car.

Ricciardo is just awesome on the brakes. He passed Lewis from about Bangkok.

Valterri might be too nice on track.

[Blerpa]

What a race.

Oh, a McLaren in front of a Ferrari, now that's quite a view these days... and I see everyone at McLaren is crying over those lost Honda engines, uh?

[JoeW]

Wow what a fantastic race. Gasly goes from hero to dumbass...but thanks to the SC the race was reset and became much more exciting.

Max...sooo good but his age is really showing. Once it clicks in him about not trying to win in every corner every lap, the sooner the better, he could be the best. Right now, so good, but so impatient. But at least post race he took responsibility and apologized to Vet. Progress...baby steps :)

What perfect (lucky) timing by Red Bull to get those tires changed. So happy for Ric. I almost shit when he squeezed by Bot...damn that was close.

[Blerpa]

Gasly and Hartley was a mix up: it seems they had a talk before the start since they were in different strategies; also Gasly got the ok from the team to pass Hartley at the straight, but the kiwi said he just didn't see him.

[JoeW]

The funny thing is Gasly was going nuts on the radio "He closed the door on me!" and the announcers snarkily said "the door must first be open before you can close it". Funny stuff.

[FaultyMario]

I fell asleep around lap 10. Will watch it soon

[Freude am Fahren]

I will say, I think this is the first time after a race where Max looked like he was actually questioning himself. Hopefully this is a bit of an eye-opener for him.

[Blerpa]

I will say, I think this is the first time after a race where Max looked like he was actually questioning himself. Hopefully this is a bit of an eye-opener for him.

I think it may be down to Vettel going calmly to talk to him, instead of eating his head on a stick.
Maybe that made him think. We shall see.

[Blerpa]

Actually... https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/135410/vettel-praises-verstappen-for-crash-apology

Formula 1 world championship leader Sebastian Vettel says he appreciated Max Verstappen's handling of their Chinese Grand Prix collision and the Red Bull driver's prompt apology.

Vettel, winner of the first two grands prix of the 2018 F1 season, was tapped into a spin by Verstappen 13 laps from the end of the Shanghai race as the Red Bull caught his third-placed Ferrari having taken on fresh tyres during a safety car period.
Verstappen accepted full responsibility for the incident and approached Vettel to discuss it immediately after the race finished.
"He came up straight after. He realised that he did a mistake," said Vettel.

"I said to him 'look, the races are long and you threw your podium away'. He was lucky to continue, I was lucky to continue, but it was not necessary.
"I think he got it. He was quite composed and realised that he messed up.

"People were asking if it was a question of age, but it's not. He's done so many races.
"We had a bit of tailwind the whole race and after 41 laps you know that it's tricky to stop the car there. But it happens.

"I appreciate the fact that he came to me straight away.
"I told him that was the way to solve it, face to face and not through the media or blowing something up."

Vettel, who had led the first part of the race before being jumped by Valtteri Bottas in the initial pitstops, underlined that he would have let Verstappen past without a fight given their respective tyre situations. Verstappen's team-mate Daniel Ricciardo used the same strategy to charge from sixth to victory in the final part of the race.

"It was clear that the Red Bulls were faster," said Vettel. "The way Daniel approached from behind there was no point to resist much and the same with Max.
"I think he had a bad exit onto the big straight, otherwise I was just ready to let him go.
"He wasn't there, so then you stay in front.
"I gave a bit of room just in case he had a tiny lock-up and then obviously he had a big lock-up... That's when we crashed."

Vettel resumed in sixth after the clash but struggled with a damaged car for the rest of the race and fell to eighth behind Nico Hulkenberg's Renault and Fernando Alonso's McLaren.
"I think in a way I'm lucky that I got to the end of it," Vettel added. "After a collision like that we might've stopped there.
"The lucky thing was the car was still working. Obviously the floor was damaged and the balance was gone.

"The car wasn't the same after that. It had a lot of understeer."

Verstappen was given a 10-second time penalty for the collision, demoting him from fourth to fifth in the results.

[FaultyMario]

They need to close pit lane in the lap the SC is deployed.

[FaultyMario]

And also, Hartley and Perez were obviously given 30 seconds penalties after their formation lap mixup in Bahrain. For sure, that puts today's penalties into perspective, of course.

[Crazed_Insanity]

They need to close pit lane in the lap the SC is deployed.
Yeah, unless it's an emergency, pit should remain closed until the next lap to minimize some lucky racers gaining unfairly.

Anyway, Max obviously threw away a race win. Hope he learns. If not, he'll be another Kvyat, if yes, then surely another Vettel.

I am kinda glad Vettel got screwed a bit, of all the great F1 drivers Vettel somehow is my least favorite..., not sure why...

Glad Ricciardo won and glad the points standing remain tight thus far. It should be a fun season!

[Godson]

Great race.

I need to say nothing about max, as it has already been said. My opinion on him has only been reinforced.

I'm sad for Vettel, because he got shafted hard and I never like to see that happen to a driver. It was a very similar contact as what Ricciardo had happen by Max at spa last year. Just much slower and didn't eliminate a car from the race.

Super happy Kimi got a podium finally. He just gets bad break after bad break.

Excited for the next race.

[balki]

Either Bottas was too nice or was given good info (Ricciardo was way faster and he should focus on Kimi with fresher tires)
Not a fan of Vettel chopping his teammate at the start and having Kimi go way too long on the softs. This is wreaking of Schumi/twobens with Ferrari very heavily favoring one driver (except the constructors is genuinely at risk here).
What happened to Mercedes? They looked like they were going to dominate for another year after Australia's qualifying. I honestly thought they might have been sandbagging a bit since then for the sake of the sport.

I hope they don't close the pits, other than the Bottas undercut there was hardly any action for half the race (after the first lap).
Overall it ended up being a great race :up: and the rest of the season continues to look promising

[Godson]

I don't think Vettel knew Kimi was that close to him. Kimi usually has mediocre starts, and this time it was damn near perfect for him.

I could be wrong though.

[FaultyMario]

Mercedes hasn't figured out the new tires.

Their suspension trickery is not as good as red bull's, which gives them a larger operating window. That's why rbs are faster on fresher rubber. Whereas Mercedes are always reminding their drivers of the Delta, they know that they have to nurse their tires.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hamilton is just off his game I think.

In Bahrain he was penalized... so I can understand why Bottas was the leading driver, but last weekend in China, Hamilton was still lagging behind Bottas.

I think Hamilton is just suffering opposite of what Max has. Max tried too hard, Hamilton has somehow lost his motivation.

[Freude am Fahren]

Mercedes has had for a while issues with tires. They've never been on top of them as well as Ferrari or Red Bull. I think in the past, they just had so many other advantages they could mask it when conditions weren't ideal. They must have the narrowist of windows for tires of the top teams. And now you have two races with pretty extreme temps, and Mercedes is on the back foot.

Ferrari seems to have a superior PU this year.

[Godson]

Mercedes has always had issues with tires. Remember when schumi was with them? Always toasting the rear tires.

[FaultyMario]

Hamilton's first year I think they had poles on half the races, could never convert them.

[Godson]

Yup. This was expounded moreso when pirelli went from the Kevlar belt to a steel belt halfeay through the season.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30715883_2562240710580899_5619714168488722432_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=c3553aba59c5a77d83dda71620bf5efd&oe=5B4FEB65

[dodint]

Perfect.

[Godson]

That...is...untouchable.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbFKYCOWAAA8X3R.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

[FaultyMario]

That was literally an accident waiting to happen.

When I saw that Pérez was within distance of Hamilton I thought, "wait a minute, every time these two guys are this close they always end up in the podium, but they're like 4 places down, if only 2 of the leaders were to crash... hey it's Horner v Horner up ahead!!", I had an epiphany there, I knew those two would tangle up. I was not expecting Bottas to have such shit luck. Anyway, odd that every time that Pérez is on the podium Hamilton is there with him.

I liked Valtteri's comment about the fifty pints for healing the damage, when he was interviewed after the race.

[FaultyMario]

2 rumors, Verstappen and Ricciardo have been ordered to Milton Keynes to deliver an apology to factory workers in person.
Hamilton was late to the podium ceremony because he wanted to tell Bottas that the win was his.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Lady Luck sure interfered way too much this season...

I really want to see a race with everyone able to push to their 100% and see how things play out without VSC or Lady Luck messing around!

With regard to RB drivers, not sure who I'd side with... guess it's just a racing incident which both drivers kept on asking for during the race?

[Kchrpm]

I would definitely say it was the guy in the lead who started inside, moved outside, then moved inside again.

[dodint]

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30715883_2562240710580899_5619714168488722432_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=c3553aba59c5a77d83dda71620bf5efd&oe=5B4FEB65

...

[Crazed_Insanity]

I would definitely say it was the guy in the lead who started inside, moved outside, then moved inside again.

It's really not worth it to keep that up with a kid with something to prove. They've had many many close calls already.

Pressure the kid to force him into a mistake sure, but to actually rear end the kid... even if you are on the right side of F1 regulations, you've fucked the entire team.

The wiser and more experienced teammate with more championship points should've avoided that incident.

Unless team data revealed the Max purposely brake checked Dan, then RB would be better served to just fire Max right away for he not only failed to learn any life lessons, but is intent on making other people's lives worse.

Otherwise, for crashing straight into an erratic kid like that..., as a race Marshall, I will probably penalize Max, but as Horner or Newey, I won't be very happy with Dan.

Suffice to say that the team has officially fractured... and they won't be able to focus on the championship because of all the in fighting that will occur from now on...

[Godson]

He only rear-ended him because the fucking idiot kid made two moves. FFS.

[FaultyMario]

Lady Luck sure interfered way too much this season...

I really want to see a race with everyone able to push to their 100% and see how things play out without VSC or Lady Luck messing around!


Watch Catalunya or Monza, they tend to be unfiltered (some might say boring) races.

[Tom Servo]

He only rear-ended him because the fucking idiot kid made two moves. FFS.

It's almost like he's got a history of doing that.

[Yobbo NZ]

It's almost like he's got a history of doing that.

I'm sure it was Coulthard that commented that Max had done the same thing in F3 numerous times.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Max should not have moved twice yes, but Dan could also have waited for a cleaner pass. It's not like he's never done that before... to make a clean pass in a way that the other racer has no answer against...

Ultimately, i think I'd blame the team itself. Lost Dans hard earned position in the pit stop... and then advised Dan to attack Max afterwards... if Dan wasn't so frustrated with the lost of his hard earned position, maybe he could've think more clearly and be able to make a clearer pass the Max has no answers for.

It's a racing incident which I'm sure Team RB is kicking itself in the ass now...

[Rare White Ape]

Come on Billi, it’s not that complicated. Ricciardo did nothing wrong and the rules are clear-cut about blocking. You’re allowed to make one move while defending, Verstappen made two.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I agree, if we strictly go by rule interpretation... the 2nd move put max more at fault.

However, Ricciardo is also coming up way too hot...

It would've been more cut and dry if max weaved back to the side of Dan and shut the door without leaving any room...

As it is, you can't really say Ricciardo is completely blameless... even if max never made that 2nd direction change and just kept going straight, there wouldn't be enough space for Dan to safely carry out the pass without hitting Max's rear wheel.

Anyway, I didn't watch the whole race, just the highlights and replays..., I still can't figure out where dan went wrong in the pits to lose his position to max again... I'm sure his frustration caused him to make a poor judgement to attempt such risky pass.

[JoeW]

If it was so clear cut then the Stewart’s would have penalized him. I actually think they both really enjoyed the close racing...right up until the crash.

My boneheaded move of the day goes to Grosjean though. It’s nearly impossible to be more stupid than him. If anyone needed to apologize to his team it’s him.

Also they kept talking about Rics contract being up. Do any of you experts have any possible scenarios for him moving to a better team? Who would get the axe to make way for him?

[SkylineObsession]

Yay, Brendan got the first F1 point for New Zealand in 42 years.

[balki]

Did the stewards do nothing because it was an intra-team battle or they actually considered it a racing incident? Because trying to pass someone after getting a tow seems like pretty standard racing.
I like how Max said it was a learning experience when he punted Vettel last race. At least that was aggressive/optimistic racing, this was an illegal block.

Another great race. :up: to Red Bull for continuing to let their drivers race.

[Rare White Ape]

Billi it sounds like you’ve never seen any motorsport before. You said Ricciardo was “coming up way too fast.” Dude, that’s how you race. Ricciardo was passing Verstappen. I don’t know how you get these ideas in your head.

[JoeW]

I will say that when Max moved to the right, the point at which his car was the furthest right Ric would have still crashed into him. There was no room either way.

Those guys don’t seem like enemies. I bet they were grinning ear to ear the whole time right up until Rics car got sucked right in and locked up. The thrill of a good race right til the end.

[dodint]

Wow.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Like I said that it appeared to be an illegal block due to the direction change, but in reality there just isn't enough room for Dan to complete the pass even if max didn't make the 2nd direction change.

I don't dunno, maybe we need a genuine non-fanboy to give a more unbiased analysis...

[CudaMan]

Looks like both share some blame. Daniel's move was pretty optimistic even for him. The door was barely open for a fraction of a second and he fully committed. Max moved back to the left. It was inevitable at that point.

My guess is Daniel normally wouldn't have attempted that move. I think a combination of things contributed to him doing that. He was probably feeling pretty invincible after China and all the positive press he got from his overtakes, he spent the whole race being stuck behind a slower Max and not being able to get by, and when he finally did get past it all got undone at the pit stops. Daniel likely wanted to pounce while Max was warming up his tires, not knowing why Max was slower in the first stint (maybe it was the set of red-striped tires he had on). All that I think contributed to a move of desperation and Max was defending heavily.

I don't know which pass was better - Max's on Daniel at the beginning of the race, or Daniel's on Max before their pit stops. Both were exceptional, right on the limit.

RedBull need to re-create this photo:

http://www.formula1blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Vettel-Webber-shrug-C-588.jpg
http://www.formula1blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Vettel-Webber-shrug-C-588.jpg

[FaultyMario]

Did the stewards do nothing because it was an intra-team battle or they actually considered it a racing incident? Because trying to pass someone after getting a tow seems like pretty standard racing.


Apparently they did nothing because Horner asked Charlie not to penalize Verstappen them.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:shrug: :lol:

[FaultyMario]

I will say that when Max moved to the right, the point at which his car was the furthest right Ric would have still crashed into him. There was no room either way.


Ricciardo consistently gave max a tad more than a car's width when they were going at it in the early stages, he thought that he was going to get the same treatment from his teammate, the problem in this particular pass was that Verstappen had jumped Ricciardo in the pits because his new tires came alive faster (relative to Ric's old set), when it was Ric who had more pace at that stage of the race. Rumor going around is that when it became evident that Verstappen was going to overcut Ricciardo Newey asked Horner to give the order for Verstappen to let Ricciardo thru, as he had the faster car, Horner didn't and Newey can be seeing fuming out of the pitwall the momen these two crash.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Apparently they did nothing because Horner asked them not to penalize Verstappen them.

Can a team really ask a favor like that of the stewards? If it's clear cut and dry dangerous reckless driving, can a team ask for forgiveness like that because the dangerous driver killed his own teammate?

[FaultyMario]

They still got a reprimand. After two or three (i forget) they are an automatic race ban.

Teams always ask for leniency, in Verstappen's case remember, this was the third championship contender he had had collisions with. He really needed the help.

[JoeW]

Good insight Faulty. Always cool to hear some of the juicy tidbits from behind the scenes.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcCUQlBX0AA9as3.jpg

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcCJzNdXUAINlk8.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

[FaultyMario]

Ch-ch-changes for next season. Teams have agreed to a simpler front wing and to a deeper, rear wing (I'm guessing 2008-like cars). They didn't agree to modifying the bargeboards.

These are the agreed modifications:

-Wider, simpler wings and straight endplates with the intention to curb outwash (http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/f_w_endplate.html) aero
-Separate vehicle and driver minimum weights
-Fuel limit upped by 5 kilos
-Simpler front brake duct designs
-Wider rear wing with a more powerful DRS effect (hoping it means shortening DRS-active zones), they're saying they want to get cars even to a brake zone, not go for highway passes


From craig scarborough's twitter:

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcGRqQxX4AAuKux.jpg:large

Also Ferrari's ERS legality has been contested by (https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/ferrari-unter-verdacht/) both Mercedes and RedBull.

[FaultyMario]

The better part of the news is that:


The current regulation change was driven very much by the FIA, which recently appointed Nicholas Tombazis, who had a PhD in aeronautics and is a former Benetton, Ferrari and McLaren chief aerodynamicist, as it’s Head of Single Seater Technical. He was extremely active in Bahrain.

They are all working together! who woulda thunk?

[FaultyMario]

Also, 24th anniversary of:

3027

[balki]

Ross Brawn, speaking in his post-weekend debrief released by F1, stopped short of apportioning blame for the crash.

"I don't want to comment on who might be held responsible or how a team should manage these issues during a race, but I do think the stewards' decision to reprimand both drivers was the right course of action," said Brawn.

"But I would like to highlight a technical point. Once Daniel had settled for his line, and Max had changed direction blocking that line, the Australian became a passenger.

"The downforce loss experienced by Ricciardo in the wake of Verstappen's car would have made it unstoppable.

"We often think of downforce in cornering, but the impact the extra grip has in braking is huge.
... beating a dead horse


They are all working together! who woulda thunk?
They're not, yesterday was the last day to get things done for 2019 without an unanimous vote. Supposedly most of the non-Mercedes powered teams are against the new rules (the barge-boards were thrown in there without enough simulation testing), but F1, the FIA, sponsors and promoters had enough to get it to the
Ferrari can still veto it if they can prove these ch-ch-ch-ch-changes (it's four ch's) are too costly

Love that they are not only trying something but being smart about it by consulting top men

[G'day Mate]

Downforce - good point

Also, the shoey? Really?

[JoeW]

Just saw they are moving toward a Miami city race next year. Can’t they choose a real venue? City races are shit!

[dodint]

I agree, city races are shit. But it's supposed to come at the expense of Baku, so...how shit would it have to be to be worse?

Too bad that New Jersey thing never panned out.

[Freude am Fahren]

Trust me, it would be ultimate shit. There is no good route for a course here. All shit roads at 90 degree angles.

[Alan P]

Trust me, it would be ultimate shit. There is no good route for a course here. All shit roads at 90 degree angles.

Which generally means single file one way is fastest. Snoore

[JoeW]

To get the general feel of Miami it would have to go along the beach somewhere. I’m in Tampa so we get the shitty St Pete Gran Prix on the shittiest roads in downtown shitty St Pete. So I can imagine it’s about the same shitty roads in Miami.

[G'day Mate]

Adelaide was almost all 90° turns (and still is in a different form). I'm far to biased to say anything, so what did the rest of you think of that track?

[Freude am Fahren]

Don't remember F1 on it, I think they left just before I started watching. I've seen the V8's there, but that's not really fair, since watching V8's just about anywhere is fun.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I remember Indycars were racing there, right? It's an okay track, but not as good as our Long Beach streets! :p

I'd really love if F-1 could come back to Los Angeles... because there's no way I'm traveling with the family anywhere to see an F1 race since they are not racing fans..., but even if they do come, there's no guarantee that I can afford them tickets!!! Having a family sucks in this respect...

I also wish to see F1 racing on Laguna Seca someday..., but that'll probably never happen.

[Blerpa]

I also wish to see F1 racing on Laguna Seca someday..., but that'll probably never happen.

Not a F1 approved track, corkscrew and run off areas problems.

[CudaMan]

downtown shitty St Pete
I've been to far worse downtowns than St Pete. I liked it actually.

[JoeW]

I guess it's different when you live in the area ;)

[dodint]

Pittsburgh would be great for a street course. The air that the cars would get when launching off the cobblestone and into pot holes would have high entertainment value.

[FaultyMario]

Why not Homestead? The road course looks like it was designed by Tilke.

[MR2 Fan]

To get the general feel of Miami it would have to go along the beach somewhere. I’m in Tampa so we get the shitty St Pete Gran Prix on the shittiest roads in downtown shitty St Pete. So I can imagine it’s about the same shitty roads in Miami.

Ugh, I hate going to St. Pete...roads are very narrow also

[Rare White Ape]

Surfers Paradise was a rip-snorter of a track. Now it is permanently changed with tram lines running along the southern end. The V8s only use the northern half of it now. And I should remind you all that Albert Park is another street circuit, except this one is set in a park, so it’s more flowing than an inner city track, with plenty of interesting corners.

The obvious daddy of street circuits is Long Beach. Plenty of that layout is nice and wide and the big right hander at turn 6 (or 7?) is a fantastic slidey off-camber joint with heaps of challenge. But who can forget Cleveland Airport? I don’t recall there being a single boring moment when CART used to race there in that golden era. All temporary tracks should be built on 20-car-wide runways.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes! They need more airport tracks! GP of top gear test track!!!

Too bad it's getting bulldozed instead... :(

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcSSJAcW4AEiuIC.jpg

Aerodynamicist Christopher Beves uses CFD simulations to explore the Untold Story of the History of F1 Aerodynamics using Simcenter STAR-CCM+ #F1 #Aerodynamics #CFD https://community.plm.automation.siemens.com/t5/Simcenter-Blog/A-CFD-Story-The-Brief-History-of-Formula-One-Aerodynamics/ba-p/488689 …

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow, cool!

Just looking at the pictures, I think Senna's 1988 mclaren looks like it disturbed the air the most even compared to 90s f1 car...

Once Senna/Prost were ahead of the pack, the rest of them probably had no chance to pass them!

Anyway, will read the article later, thanks for the post!

[Rare White Ape]

John Barnard designed the MP4/4. He was graced with the luxury of a Honda engine which put out enough horsepower that it could thrust a car through molasses if it pleased. So therefore, the brief was to just put huge 'barn door' wings on it and create cheap downforce, while letting the turbocharged V6 ram its way through the air, turbulence be damned. The winning cars then get copied by other teams and that's why mid-80s F1 cars look very square.

I think Adrian Newey was the first to start thinking about efficiency in a different way with F1 designs. I still remember his beautiful March Leyton House cars being more sculpted and much smaller around the rear bodywork than their contemporaries. The thin back edge of the airbox is one que that stands out. After March he was picked up by Williams and went on to win more championships than Schumacher.

[Reynard]

So the F1TV streaming service is finally up and running and it's less expensive then MGP. $99/yr for the Pro service or $27/yr for the 'Basic' version. Thing is the only thing that differentiates the Pro version is live streaming, unedited team radios & the ability to choose the camera you're viewing. If you can do w/o those features and don't mind waiting 2 days after race the to watch, I'd say the basic version is damn steal for all you cord cutters out there.

That said, I'm more then happy with what ESPN is doing so I'm not even going to bother trying it out. :lol:

Edit: This link should work https://www.formula1.com/en/subscribe-to-f1-tv-pro.html#en

[dodint]

Same, ESPN has it perfect. On demand full length commercial free events.

Kind of surprised it isn't an ESPN+ offering.

[Alan P]

It's late and I'm in bed on my iPad, but if you get a chance, check out the new McLaren nose and wing.

[Freude am Fahren]

Miami is getting closer to being a reality. City Commission approved it. BTW, the main money man is Stephen Ross, the Dolphins owner. I still wont believe it 'till I see it though.

The current projected course is pretty bad, but I know why they came up with it. It barely has any impact on traffic. Just a short bit of Biscayne.

My projected course is much better, but has a much bigger impact, and would require a bit of modification to the park (and a lot of roadwork to improve the streets, which will be needed either way.)

There are train tracks in the current proposed map. Tracks and F1 don't typically go well together.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/ppglmtggzti20tc6a1qu.jpg

The bridge part is kinda crazy, since it's a very tall bridge, and would kill the brakes having hairpins are either end. But if they want it, I kept it. An alternative would be to skip it and go around the arena, or just make skip that northern section altogether and turn around at the Port Blvd (the bridge street).

[Blerpa]

So the F1TV streaming service is finally up and running and it's less expensive then MGP. $99/yr for the Pro service or $27/yr for the 'Basic' version. Thing is the only thing that differentiates the Pro version is live streaming, unedited team radios & the ability to choose the camera you're viewing. If you can do w/o those features and don't mind waiting 2 days after race the to watch, I'd say the basic version is damn steal for all you cord cutters out there.

That said, I'm more then happy with what ESPN is doing so I'm not even going to bother trying it out. :lol:

Edit: This link should work https://www.formula1.com/en/subscribe-to-f1-tv-pro.html#en

Wait... you pay 27/yr and don't even get to watch the race live? I'll keep watching it on illegal streams, thanks.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dc6BbM1XUAEyYe9.jpg

#SpanishGP

[Freude am Fahren]

#SpainishGP

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--UHjRqiRG--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/sjbl2f7zyh09pdfl6m6a.png

[JoeW]

Does that mean it's in Spain...ish? So kind of in Spain but not really?

[Fiat500]

Well, there's that whole Catalunya independence thing, so basically yeah. :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ah, I see, just like Taiwan is Chinaish, Kuwait is Iraqish and Irish and Scottish are all English...

[JoeW]

I am constantly dumbfounded by the incredibly obvious spelling errors found nearly everywhere nowadays. Especially in public print where there are probably people getting paid to proofread and edit such things.

[MR2 Fan]

I am constantly dumbfounded by the incredibly obvious spelling errors found nearly everywhere nowadays. Especially in public print where there are probably people getting paid to proofread and edit such things.

or they're not getting paid to do that, we're assuming people still care about those things

[Crazed_Insanity]

Spainish GP was a boring one, that's why no discussions this week? I haven't see it myself...

[JoeW]

I enjoyed it. Was a good race with lots of drama. Since you haven’t seen it I won’t name names :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Thanks, but that's okay, I already peeked at the final result, Hamilton back to form... so figured it was probably a boring usual race...;)

[JoeW]

Usual stuff...Grosjean being Grosjean, bad luck for Kimi, VSC weirdness...

But unusually both Red Bulls finished. Magnusson drove a lonely race to an excellent finish though.

[IMOA]

I thought it was boring even for a Spanish GP which is really saying something. Apart from Grosjean's appalling lack of judgement it was basically a procession where the excitement consisted of occasionally a car broke down. There wasn't even any particularly interesting mid-field battles

[Tom Servo]

I seem to remember that near the end, there were only two drivers within 3 seconds of the car ahead of them. I think Magnussen had a 50 second gap in front and an 8 second one behind.

[FaultyMario]

In-season testing at BCN



Team
Tuesday 15-05
Wednesday 16-05


Mercedes
HAM
BOT


Ferrari
VET
GIO


Red Bull
VER
Jake Dennis


Force India
Latifi
Mazepin


FI (Pirelli Test)
George Russell
Latifi


Williams
Oliver Rowland
KUB


Renault
SAI
Jack Aitken


STR
Sean Gelael
GAS


Haas
MAG/GRO
MAG/GRO


Mclaren
VAN
Lando Norris


Mclaren (Pirelli test)
Lando Norris / Oliver Turvey
VAN


Sauber
GIO
LEC

[balki]

So the ESPN coverage is great, but the UniMas went away, any idea? Rounds 1 and 2 on UniMas, round 3 on Univision then gone for these last two rounds.
I get they're part of NBC but not why they showed the first three races then stopped. Any ideas / OTA networks airing F1 races?

Lando Norris
sounds made up

[FaultyMario]

While on the subject of Grosjean https://twitter.com/Ritaporfiris_/status/996125283731337217?s=19

[Crazed_Insanity]

Absolutely no smoke at all! How was that accomplished? Track must be damp or wet?

While on the subject of smoke, Grojean really should be penalized for creating unnecessary smokiness... glad he didn't cause other more serious incidents.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdFqQCVXUAAJF-2.jpg

Be quiet Romain! These things happen #F1 #SpanishGP #Alonso (https://twitter.com/f1writers/status/995693826084925442)

[JoeW]

If you watch the replay, once he starts to get sideways he just hammers the throttle and you can hear the engine just revving to the moon while he is completely sideways and the spin is unsavable. I think after the car hit a certain angle he just got pissed and let er rip.

[dodint]

Works, kinda, when Vettel does it.

[Freude am Fahren]

Pretty boring race for the most part. To be fair though, I watched after staying up really late, and getting up early to watch the N24 (luckily I didn't miss much because of the red flag), so I was kinda half awake. N24 was much more interesting. But it's Spain. Spain is always boring, and this wasn't too different. I couple insidents to spice it up slightly, but not much. Getting really tired of seeing Kimi have problems.

Grosjean was a total bonehead keeping it buried like that. What was he thinking??? There's no reason to do that even when not in the middle of a lap 1 pack. With anti-stall, and the ability to restart, as long as you're not avoiding gravel, just let it spin. If he just slammed the brakes, he's be in a better position in the end, even if he was alone.

[JoeW]

Or just go wide off track. Anything other than what he did would have been good. Been hoping to see Haas get double points for once but not if he keeps driving like that.

[Tom Servo]

If you watch the replay, once he starts to get sideways he just hammers the throttle and you can hear the engine just revving to the moon while he is completely sideways and the spin is unsavable. I think after the car hit a certain angle he just got pissed and let er rip.

Precisely what I was thinking. Grosjean has been increasingly frustrated and quick to go off the handle, and it seemed like he almost caught it, realized he didn't, got frustrated and hammered the throttle in frustration, taking out two other drivers in the process.

I don't blame him for his frustration, but he needs to get his shit together.

[SkylineObsession]

Sooo, will Hartley lose his seat this year or not. Place your bets.

I say yes, because Kiwis' don't seem to get a fair shot in the big leagues sometimes. Look at Hayden Paddon in the WRC, being 'demoted' to not doing a full season, being replaced by another driver in various rallys.

I'm not sure how equal the F1 cars are, but seems it's the car letting Brendon down, as he's said on mroe than one occasion that it's lacking power. If they let him go because he can't get into the points regularly enough, then they should start looking at their car first.

[Yobbo NZ]

He's not doing too bad a job. Looking at their fastest laps from Catalunya, he was quicker than Perez, Ocon, both Williams, Stoffel and not much behind Alonso.
The car and him have good midfield pace, just think maybe he's not aggressive enough in traffic.
But flip side, being too agressive and destroying the car or crashing into someone else isn't going to go down too well either.

[FaultyMario]

They're pretty even in qualy but Gasly has been delivering the points. And that's what matters.

[FaultyMario]

Here's Sommerfield's lecture of the 2019 changes (https://www.patreon.com/posts/18639552) if you have a five minutes to spare.

[FaultyMario]

During the Barcelona tests the FIA trialed an extra pair of lights on the edges of the rear wing of Hamilton's Mercedes to improve visibility under rain/dark conditions.

[JoeW]

Banning Ferrari hanging mirrors? Don't they have better things to do? I thought they looked cool. If it's an aero problem then just make them take the winglets off. But let them keep them on the halo. At least give the teams a little individuality.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Making a winglet there is just screaming for extra attention...

It is odd why they won't allow it even without that winglet.

Anyway, maybe this update was the reason why Ferrari failed to win the race. They'll thank FIA later when they win Monaco with normal mirrors.

[Tom Servo]

It sounds like the mirrors can absolutely be mounted to the halo, but that it's supposed to be to help visibility. The winglet lead the FIA to decide that they were mounted there primary for an aero advantage. It's a little tough to tell from what article I'm reading, but it sounds like the main objection is that that winglet goes up above the halo rather than staying below it. Ferrari claimed the winglet was to stabilize the mirror, which would improve visibility, and Whiting says there's no reason they couldn't have done that with a winglet much closer to the mirror itself, rather than extending up so high. I can't quite tell if there's a concrete rule that nothing should be attached to the halo that extends higher than the halo, or if that's just their judgment call that that winglet would have less to do with stabilizing the mirror and more to do with conditioning air headed towards the rear wing.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/5/fia-to-ban-ferraris-halo-mounted-mirrors-with-winglet.html

Either way, Whiting appears to be clarifying that halo mounted mirrors are absolutely allowed and have been since after the Chinese GP, but not as a cheap way to sneak an extra wing in there.

[FaultyMario]

Track record for Ricciardo and then Max bookends the grid.

I guess the hype balloon has popped.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Still a fan boy.

Reality is that Max could very well turn zero into hero.

Senna has turned himself into a zero once with a solo crash while holding a huge lead.

Unless Max consistently crashes, this shouldn't be enough to pop his balloon.