F1 2020

[Rare White Ape]

Onboard video of new Zandvoort upgrade.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBDpxYZhYTc

Look at all the lovely camber on those corners :shocker:

And the final turn!

Not sure about the chicane after turn three tho.

[JoeW]

I almost can’t even tell what’s it’s like because they are going so slow. Looks like it has a nice flow to it though. Looking forward to it.

[Rare White Ape]

Here it is at 8/10ths, if that helps :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEC1lYtXEJQ

[JoeW]

Damn I bet he loves it when they pull out the old car for demos. The sound is so amazing.

Watching it there leads me to believe that the track seems a little narrow. It may be the super wide camera angle though.

[Alan P]

Damn I bet he loves it when they pull out the old car for demos. The sound is so amazing.

Watching it there leads me to believe that the track seems a little narrow. It may be the super wide camera angle though.

It is quite narrow. You’ll get two cars side by side but not a lot of room after that. The FIA states reference width as 10m but that’s average. Some parts are rather svelte.

[The359]

The chicane isn't part of the F1 track, just the connection for the "short circuit", probably just in use for this track day.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Damn I bet he loves it when they pull out the old car for demos. The sound is so amazing.

Watching it there leads me to believe that the track seems a little narrow. It may be the super wide camera angle though.

Yeah! That's what F1 cars should sound like. Certainly do miss that.

[Freude am Fahren]

That vid is also from before alterations.

[Rare White Ape]

Here’s a new one.


https://youtu.be/GGu--_UHY_o

[JoeW]

Fuck that’s good.

[Yobbo NZ]

Passing should be interesting.

[JoeW]

That’s what I was saying. It’s really narrow. It flows really well like a proper race track but it needs to be a good 6ft wider.

[Yobbo NZ]

I was more meaning, it flows too much. Most corners he was only going back 2, maybe 3 gears.
There's no hard braking, overtaking area.

[JoeW]

Jeezus. This FIA/Ferrari debacle is just a sad story. So the FIA says they believe Ferrari's PU was illegal but it would be too expensive to investigate and the outcome would be in question, which would then tarnish the series in general and cause friction with Ferrari who is basically in control of the series behind closed doors...so they basically said fuck it. Good one FIA....

[Alan P]

I was more meaning, it flows too much. Most corners he was only going back 2, maybe 3 gears.
There's no hard braking, overtaking area.

I think that was part of the reasoning of the banked last turn. If you can increase speed here it will make the front straight ‘longer’ so speeds are higher which increases braking distance. The idea being that it will give a better overtaking chance.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Jeezus. This FIA/Ferrari debacle is just a sad story. So the FIA says they believe Ferrari's PU was illegal but it would be too expensive to investigate and the outcome would be in question, which would then tarnish the series in general and cause friction with Ferrari who is basically in control of the series behind closed doors...so they basically said fuck it. Good one FIA....

Interesting...

They really should just make rules as simple as possible... and device relative simple tests to enforce these rules. If a clever team makes certain things difficult to inspect and test, then just deem it legal!

It's pretty stupid to say shit like we think it's illegal but we can't prove it so fuck it! At the very minimum, this inconclusive investigation should be more transparent.

[FaultyMario]

relative simple tests

Complicated, expensive hybrids are complicated.

[JoeW]

They really should just make rules as simple as possible... and device relative simple tests to enforce these rules. If a clever team makes certain things difficult to inspect and test, then just deem it legal!

It's pretty stupid to say shit like we think it's illegal but we can't prove it so fuck it! At the very minimum, this inconclusive investigation should be more transparent.

Basically this.

I can see if they were a second faster everywhere. But they weren't. This ain't little league where everyone gets a trophy. The latest mantra...if you can't beat them, file a protest. Mercedes crushed everyone but no one was complaining.

Make rules, make procedures to determine if rules are broken. If it's not able to determine, call it innovation and move on. If said innovation becomes such a huge advantage and everyone complains then either make it legal next year or make it illegal and make a way to test for it.

Fuck I just realized I quoted Billi in a positive way. I apologize...it actually made sense for a change.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Quote this!

Fuck you!

[JoeW]

That is pretty much exactly what Jesus would say.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You mother...

Okay, I love you man!

[JoeW]

Positively giddy waiting for this season to start...

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESwDBxoXgAED6FG.jpg

I written an article around Mercs DAS system, what it might be doing and how it might work.

https://motorsport.tech/formula-1/das-reboot-how-mercedes-innovative-thinking-can-give-them-another-advantage

[Crazed_Insanity]

Whoa! That's awesome man! :up:

[Rare White Ape]

Renault has finally unveiled its 2020 livery, and... it looks basically the same as last year's. Ho hum.

Except for a new title sponsor: Double Penetration World, a logistics company.

https://www.formula1.com/content/dam/fom-website/manual/Misc/Renault2020livery/Renault4.jpg.transform/12col-retina/image.jpg

https://www.formula1.com/content/dam/fom-website/manual/Misc/Renault2020livery/Renault3.jpg.transform/12col-retina/image.jpg

[JoeW]

Sounds more like what they did to Ricciardo when they pried him away from a fairly competitive team.

[Crazed_Insanity]

He was unhappy at RB... just like Vettel was unhappy at RB with a super competitive teammate stealing away his attention...

Who would've thought Renault is repeating Honda's mistake.

I think Ricciardo should be fine, but I am glad that this fiasco helped out Albon! :) If it weren't for this double penetration move, Albon probably won't even be in F1, right?

[Alan P]

He was unhappy at RB... just like Vettel was unhappy at RB with a super competitive teammate stealing away his attention...

Who would've thought Renault is repeating Honda's mistake.

I think Ricciardo should be fine, but I am glad that this fiasco helped out Albon! :) If it weren't for this double penetration move, Albon probably won't even be in F1, right?

Red Bull have always had a 'Golden Child' and A N Other driver who never gets the decisions, faces undue pressure to match them despite, if Drive to Survive is to be believed, receiving much more criticism behind the scenes than support then watching TV as they go completely two faced and talk about all the support they're receiving. it happened with Vettel and Webber and it happened with Max and Danny. Then it happened with Max and Pierre and if Alex doesn't watch out it'll happen with him too.

[Yobbo NZ]

Watching that, made me wish Toro Rosso were in the first season. The pressure and bullshit from the press that Hartley copped, is pretty much what they've shown this series with Gasley.
How a team can let a driver face that from the press is beyond a joke.
And Horner saying that he should harden up and take the pressure and if he can't, he shouldn't be there.
Very toxic team.
At least Gunther has it out with his drivers so they know where they stand 😂

[JoeW]

And yet, this isn’t a training league. This is the top of heap. If you don’t have your shit straight going into F1 then go somewhere else.

F1 is kill or be killed.

[Rare White Ape]

McLaren has withdrawn from AGP due to corona virus. One team member has tested positive, so they’re pulling out to ensure they maintain duty of care to other team members, as well as team members of their competitors.

[Blerpa]

The irresponsibile thing is actually that they are going to race this weekend.
And I see that people in UK, France, USA and other countries are underestimating the virus: we are in it, big time, starting to containing it and we are short of having army trucks at every crossroad.
Since most don't believe what has happened in China and now in Italy... wait for it, you will see it.

[FaultyMario]

And yet, this isn’t a training league. This is the top of heap. If you don’t have your shit straight going into F1 then go somewhere else.


Which goes back to the essential criticism of Verstappen, what has he ever done to get the A-treatment?

With 30 starts less to his name, Clark was already a legend.

[FaultyMario]

The irresponsibile thing is actually that they are going to race this weekend.
And I see that people in UK, France, USA and other countries are underestimating the virus: we are in it, big time, starting to containing it and we are short of having army trucks at every crossroad.
Since most don't believe what has happened in China and now in Italy... wait for it, you will see it.

I thought your 20 somethings were having coronaparties in public plazas.

[Blerpa]

What Faulty said about Clark and Verstappen.

Yes, Mario, that's why we are now in almost full Lock Down.
Because of irresponsible people.

[JoeW]

Because a Clark/Verstappen comparison is super applicable? We’ve discussed many times how you can’t compare different eras. But while we’re here, he did win his 1st race in a new car that was definitely not considered a top 2 car capable of fighting with Merc and Ferrari (even though the Mercs crashed out). So I think that win gave him instant street cred.

I wasn’t even talking about Verstappen. Just the fact that you can’t come into F1 with low self esteem or need a little coddling. Verstappen has never needed any of that :)

[FaultyMario]

Season opener has been officially postponed.

[dodint]

:(

[FaultyMario]

I guess they can't say cancelled due to contacts and red tape.

[JoeW]

FUCK I was so hyped.

[Crazed_Insanity]

They should set up their simulators and virtual race and broadcast their race!

And let everyone drives the same virtual car on various tracks!!!

They could also possibly recreate the cars in Clark’s era and see Max kick ass! ;)

Look, Vettel pushed Webber out. Dan pushed Vettel out. Max pushed dan out.

Nobody is on track to push Max out yet. Albon has been consistent and fast but not really challenging the senior teammate yet... maybe Albon could challenge Max this season with his superior reliability. We’ll see.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ES7eWCpUwAEjTqw.jpg

[FaultyMario]

I don't know, this is on twitter:


With now less than 2 hours until gates open, I've heard reports that Marshals have been told the day is proceeding as planned.

Still no official announcement yet even though fans and teams will be making their way to the track soon if not already.

Sky reported on a meeting between team principals that went on thru the wee hours. But Lando has posted to instagram(?) that he feels disappointed but understands health comes first.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ES7spCuXsAUwNDZ.jpg

[Rare White Ape]

Nothing official yet. AFAIK things will go ahead today.

[2ndMoparMan]

Is it bad whenever I see that meme that I think of Jimmy Broadbent, Hawkeye?

[Rare White Ape]

AGP on-track activities going ahead as planned, spectators are arriving at the track. TCR support category pitlane opens in 1hr. (Edit: actually 25 mins from time of this post)

https://www.speedcafe.com/2020/03/13/australian-gp-to-continue-as-planned-amid-ongoing-discussions/

[Rare White Ape]

But it looks like the Vietnam GP is on the chopping block.

[Rare White Ape]

News just to hand:

Spectator gates closed at Albert Park. On-track activity will still go ahead for support categories. No word yet on F1.

[Yobbo NZ]

Mercedes just announced they're packing up and going home.
Guess it's all going to be called off now.

[Rare White Ape]

Confirmed F1 is cancelled this weekend. Announcement pending for support races.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2020/03/13/confirmed-australian-grand-prix-cancelled/

[Crazed_Insanity]

Feel so bad for the organizers of those events... can you imagine the bloke who financed the Vietnam GP? Hope he got insurance to cover his losses...

FIAs handling of this chaos was unbelievable too. Feel super bad for the fans that actually showed up at the gate waiting to be let it...

Such unbelievable turn of events...

[Blerpa]

Barhain is cancelled too.
F1 will start from Baku.

[Rare White Ape]

???

Baku is in June, after Monaco.

[Freude am Fahren]

Most likely start would probably be Dutch GP, I think, if things have gotten better. Australia, Bahrain and China gone (or postponed) for certain. Vietnam probably (let's be honest too, any new circuit is always a question mark until FP1). So with the start of the Euro season, might be the start of the actual season.

:(

[Blerpa]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bahrain-vietnam-gp-postponed-coronavirus/4746231/

Dutch GP in jeopardy as well.

*** "The cancellation of the first three races means the season would, in theory, start with the Dutch Grand Prix in early May, but F1 admitted that "given the sharp increase in COVID-19 cases in Europe in recent days, this will be regularly reviewed."

As revealed by Motorsport.com earlier on Friday, however, F1 could be looking at kicking off the season in Azerbaijan in June. ***

So far no Australia, no China, no Barhain, no Vietnam.
Probably no Nederlands.

[The359]

The problem with "postponing" races is that we are going to have a ton of events to try and cram into the rest of the year, for many series. Scheduling is going to be a pain in the ass, and a lot of events will probably just end up cancelled.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow!

[dodint]

The problem with "postponing" races is that we are going to have a ton of events to try and cram into the rest of the year, for many series. Scheduling is going to be a pain in the ass, and a lot of events will probably just end up cancelled.

WEC style Super Season. Just make it wrap around into 2021. ;)

[The359]

IMSA is effectively going to do that. Petit Le Mans in October, Sebring in November, Daytona in January. 46 hours of racing in 4 months.

[Freude am Fahren]

And then Sebring again in March, hopefully with WEC back too.

[Rare White Ape]

I think the smartest thing to do would be to just cancel rather than postpone, and run a reduced championship with the things that are already scheduled. No trying to slot in events from earlier this year.

You don’t want to be pushing the teams too hard over the final months of the season. It’s already a stressful time, plus they’ll be getting their 2021 chassis online. Give them the space they need.

[Blerpa]

I agree with RWA, cancel them, don't overwork the people, who are already on stress in a regular F1 season.

[FaultyMario]

A bunch of pros are going to race the all Star esport go (or whatever it's called).

Among them is pagenaud, jpm and Max V.

In case you wanna keep your reasons addiction going.

[Alan P]

I think the smartest thing to do would be to just cancel rather than postpone, and run a reduced championship with the things that are already scheduled. No trying to slot in events from earlier this year.

You don’t want to be pushing the teams too hard over the final months of the season. It’s already a stressful time, plus they’ll be getting their 2021 chassis online. Give them the space they need.

They've said they could delay the new chassis and aero rules until 2022 due to this if necessary.

[The359]

A bunch of pros are going to race the all Star esport go (or whatever it's called).

Among them is pagenaud, jpm and Max V.

In case you wanna keep your reasons addiction going.

https://youtu.be/Hpq9oMLTc-k

Verstappen, Jani, Montoya, Montoya's son, Pagenaud, Rosenqvist, da Costa, Herta, Billy Monger, and....Jimmy Broadbent?

[2ndMoparMan]

Yeah, did you see the picuture they used for him, 359?

[FaultyMario]

Oh yeah, I'm rooting for Raikkonen Jr.

[Rare White Ape]

I watched the stream. Race 1 was bloody exciting for Jimmy fans!

[Alan P]

I watched the stream. Race 1 was bloody exciting for Jimmy fans!

He's not the fastest but mounts a good defence and usually manages to avoid too much trouble. Shame he got punted off in one of the races though.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Need to see other F1 drivers driving these exact same virtual cars...

[FaultyMario]

Every driver helmet for 2020 (https://www.racefans.net/2020/03/16/pictures-every-f1-drivers-helmet-for-the-2020-season/)

I think Stroll's is a pleasant surprise. Giovinazzi's is also good, I like how he took Vettel's theme and made it Italian and his. VR46's is also a classic, glad to see it on the F1 grid.

[Freude am Fahren]

I wonder if Lando actually has any kind of sponsorship/relationship with VR46, or if it's a full on just fanboy tribute. I love it.

I like Lewis putting in Purple. That's kind always been his color, and ever since he got rid of the Senna Tribute yellow, the white has been boring.

Trying to figure out what is going on with Ricciardo's? At least it's interesting.

Lots of boring elsewhere.

[FaultyMario]

Latest rumors have McLaren signing Vettel (you know, the new Mc-Merc).

They also hint towards the 2021 regs being pushed off one year, because 2020's finances are going to suck balls.

[Blerpa]

I wonder if Lando actually has any kind of sponsorship/relationship with VR46, or if it's a full on just fanboy tribute. I love it.

Valentino Rossi is his idol: there's a video, on his official vlog on Youtube, when he finally met him.
Lando was in total awe.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Latest rumors have McLaren signing Vettel (you know, the new Mc-Merc).


Wonder if McLaren is getting him at a steep discount?

[Rare White Ape]

Valentino Rossi is his idol: there's a video, on his official vlog on Youtube, when he finally met him.
Lando was in total awe.

Is that the one where they promised each other to team up in a GT3 race together?

I really want to see that happen :D

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, I knew that, but now with the helmet for the full season, I'm wondering if he's actually partnered up with his brand, or if it's still just fanboyism. Either way it's awesome. I'm a huge fan of both :)

[Rare White Ape]

Correct me if I’m wrong though, but Norris’ helmet in the link Mario posted is not a Rossi lid. AFAIK he only ran it once at the Italian GP.

[Rare White Ape]

A little glimpse of what could have been last weekend...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7JiyBuo86k

[FaultyMario]

Correct me if I’m wrong though, but Norris’ helmet in the link Mario posted is not a Rossi lid. AFAIK he only ran it once at the Italian GP.

To my eyes it's an "inspired by" design.

[FaultyMario]

Confirmed: Monaco GP cancelled.

[Freude am Fahren]

As well as Dutch and Spanish.

[Blerpa]

Precisely:
Australia has been cancelled.
China, Barhain and Vietnam were postponed.
Nederlands, Spain and Monaco are postponed as well, but it is very possible that Monaco will be eventually cancelled because of the peculiar scheduling needed for it.

So, as I said many days before, it truly seems F1 2020 season will start at Baku.

[drew]

It's the 2005 USGP, but a season.

[Freude am Fahren]

Ah, yeah, at the time of my comment, postponed according to the F1 for all three was more accurate.

But I just learned the ACM had said the event will be outright cancelled just prior to that.

[Freude am Fahren]

2021 Regs now officially the 2022 Regs.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.fia-announce-new-f1-regulations-to-be-delayed-until-2022.1lwtaLmpNcQd0z9SnMEyK8.html

[Rare White Ape]

Disappointing but understandable.

It could be a good idea to freeze all development until the new round 1, as well as between last round this year and first round next year, and run an 18 month super-duper-mega-series into 2021 :shocker:

[dodint]

From a competition perspective a shorter season will be more exciting. Mercedes won't have wrapped up the championships on paper with several rounds left.

[Rare White Ape]

Ok so this esports replacement thing is going full tilt.

https://corp.formula1.com/formula-1-launches-virtual-grand-prix-series-to-replace-postponed-races/


During non-race weekends, Formula 1 will also be hosting online exhibition races, where fans from around the world will be given the chance to go head-to-head with F1 drivers. More details of these events will be available across the official Formula 1 social media channels in the coming weeks.

Average joes, racing against real current F1 drivers.

As Jimmy Broadbent said, while experiencing the same realisation last weekend, “sim racing is fucking cool man.”

[MR2 Fan]

Jimmy Broadbent is now my pick for F1 champion this year then

[Rare White Ape]

The SRO is into it now, with a charity endurance race in ACC coming up. Same deal: pro drivers vs sim racers and invitees.

[FaultyMario]

There's going to be a Bahrain V-prix.

[Blerpa]

People do share the links!!!

[The359]

IMSA is having a Sebring in iRacing as well.

[Rare White Ape]

People do share the links!!!

The link for the F1 Bahrain thing is up on the previous page, and here’s the link for the SRO charity race:

https://www.sro-motorsports.com/news/24/-sro-e-sports-gt-series-kunos-simulazioni-and-ak-informatica-to-stage-two-hour-assetto-corsa-competizione-race-at-monza-

[Rare White Ape]

Actually let’s post them in the sim racing thread!

[FaultyMario]

The link for the F1 Bahrain thing is up on the previous page [...]

I was under the impression that the Bahrain V-Prix was being put on by the same organization in charge of the Grand Prix, with more details coming.

[Blerpa]

Baku is officially postponed as well.

[Rare White Ape]

I'm cool with this. Fuck that track.

Although we may be subjected to seeing 20 F1 drivers and eSports stars trying to race there in a video game :lol:

[FaultyMario]

That was the best chance for Racing Point to score a podium, damn it!

[FaultyMario]

Anybody else hearing that Liberty is selling F1 to ░░░░░░░░?

[Freude am Fahren]

Is that a censor, or are you just hearing they're selling to someone but don't know who?

[Rare White Ape]

NASCAR?

The NFL?

Donald Trump?

[FaultyMario]

Is that a censor, or are you just hearing they're selling to someone but don't know who?

The latter.

[FaultyMario]

Rumors point to Liberty selling to the owners. To whatever many are left standing afterwards. Renault is rumored to be closing shop after this. I've read that the whole business is expecting a 75% drop in revenue.

[The359]

I think almost all the major championships are going to be on the verge of collapse. Even when things start returning to normal and races begin again, what families are going to have extra money to spend at races? What companies are going to want to sponsor motorsport?

[Rare White Ape]

To all that I say meh.

The bazillionaires that suddenly find themselves unable to afford to run F1 can go jump.

Formula One as a property will continue to be worth something no matter what happens, so F1 will always exist. It’ll just be owned by different people.

It will be a great reset button and we might end up with a nice privateer championship (that Blerpa has always wanted ;) ) until the big money starts flowing again.

[Rare White Ape]

Plus the post-COVID economy will consist of many many people trying to get the jump on everyone and failing so cash will be splashed freely. Like a new dot com bubble.

[Blerpa]

To all that I say meh.

The bazillionaires that suddenly find themselves unable to afford to run F1 can go jump.

Formula One as a property will continue to be worth something no matter what happens, so F1 will always exist. It’ll just be owned by different people.

It will be a great reset button and we might end up with a nice privateer championship (that Blerpa has always wanted ;) ) until the big money starts flowing again.

Aside from what I could want... honestly? Fuck F1 with a rusty pole.
Who cares? I only worry for the people that may lose a job, otherwise is not really a necessity, especially in the scope of a global pandemic.
So I agree with you.

[FaultyMario]

On that line, I think Wolff, Todt and Camilleri will broker a deal to have Hamilton paired with LeClerc. That's the only way I can see to generate some hype for audiences and give something back to Italy.

[FaultyMario]

Blerper:


How to watch this weekends top esports races (https://www.racefans.net/2020/03/27/how-to-watch-this-weekends-top-esports-races)

[Blerpa]

Thanks Mario! I'll look into it tomorrow morning (2:30am here!), hopefully there's something going on this weekend!

[FaultyMario]

Robert Wickens' specially prepared wheel could not be delivered on time for him to race today. Bummer.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow, a chinese driver won the virtual F1 race?

Anyway, the race has good graphics but the motion still looks glitchy at times... wonder if it’s the game engine or internet connections... I guess these e races are still not quite ready to replace the real thing yet...

[XHawkeye]

Why you can't take over #F1 by buying its shares. Contrary to popular belief, $FWONK doesn't actually own #F1 at all... (https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2020/03/31/why-f1s-29-billion-debt-mountain-could-hold-the-keys-to-its-future/)

[Blerpa]

Lawrence Stroll makes it official: Aston Martin F1 will join (and get back to) the circus in 2021 taking the place of Racing Point.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What? So that means their partnership with RB will end?

[Blerpa]

Obviously.

[Rare White Ape]

As revealed by Faulty a few months ago.

http://gtxforums.net/showthread.php?1952-F1-2020&p=144762&viewfull=1#post144762

[balki]

Bernie's having a boy (https://www.grandprix.com/news/ecclestone-89-to-be-father-again.html)
Bernie is 89, pretty darn impressive
The boy's youngest sister is 31 years older and the oldest 65.

[FaultyMario]

How old is the mom, 17?

[FaultyMario]

I'm heading the Alabama online party (?) Was great PR for Indycar. F1 is going to get it's smug ass handed to them if they don't come up with something soon.

[Blerpa]

I'm heading the Alabama online party (?) Was great PR for Indycar. F1 is going to get it's smug ass handed to them if they don't come up with something soon.

Uh? Tonight (9pm CET) there's the F1 race on Formula 1 official channel, and at 10:30pm CET there will be the esport Pro Exhibition race (which is marketed like afterparty).
What were you saying?

[FaultyMario]

There's like 5 current GP drivers lined up for the F1 game.

Check out the radio highlights from the iRace. It was like nineties CART was back on. Lots personalities and rivalries. Plus the Wickens feel good storyline.

[Rare White Ape]

I skimmed through some of the IndyCar race via Scott Mclaughlin’s Twitch stream. It looked very dry and very serious.

At the same time ol’ Jimmer the shed dweller streamed a practice session for the F1 race. There were a handful of F1 drivers, plus Arthur LeClerc, a cricketer, Jimmy, and Johnny Herbert. It was hilarious, full of banter, and they having a wild time.

Guess which one people are going to watch.

Furthermore, the final lap of the virtual Bahrain GP from two weeks ago is stuff of sim racing legend. Jimmy vs Lando Norris. It was a 14 lap race so go watch it, or check out the highlights that were put up on the F1 YouTube channel.

[2ndMoparMan]

Jimmer had a heck of a race on Sunday.

[Blerpa]

Canadian GP officially postponed as well.

[Rare White Ape]

Early info but solid info:

F1 season looking to start in July at the Red Bull Ring in Austria, with the first few rounds held behind closed doors without spectators. They are hoping to do a “15-18” race season ending in Abu Dhabi in December. According to the video below, they are working on procedures for entering each country and holding their races, while still keeping everyone safe.

Judging by the timeline (we are still three months away from an F1 season :| ) it looks like they may be waiting to see how some places perform while restrictions are slowly lifted, and if there’s any hint of a second wave they’ll be ready to abandon the season.

F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport, and hopefully the global pinnacle of making sure this goes smoothly. All eyes on them I guess - they’re in a unique position.


https://youtu.be/w1eZOs0Dcr4

[FaultyMario]

Good.

I mentioned on twitter that if Ferrari stays (I think the boy who cried before is actually seeing the wolf this time), they would have to engineer a Hamilton move to Maranello. I don't see any other way to generate major interest in the championship. They need to gather public buzz and they need a new business model ASAP, particularly with all petroleum conglomerates operating in red for the foreseeable future.

[Blerpa]

Hamilton has nothing to gain to go to Ferrari.
Also, this story about having to win on a Ferrari is some serious kind of modern F1 bullshit (relatively modern).
Senna, Clark, Stewart, Brabham, Piquet, Graham Hill, Hakkinen (and many more F1 champions) have never been in Ferrari... are they less important because of it? No. Not an inch.

I truly believe Ferrari importance in F1 is greatly overplayed by the red team fortunes in the Schumacher years and all the Cavallino Rampante narrative.
Also the story goes about Ferrari not winning a F1 championship from 1979 (Scheckter) till 2000 (Schumacher), but not many remember that Ferrari went through a quite long suckage period from 1961 to 1974, bar the Surtees championship won in 1964.
The only reason Ferrari is important is because they have always been there since the beginning till today.

[FaultyMario]

Hamilton has nothing to gain to go to Ferrari.

Agreed. But that doesn't mean these aren't extraordinary circumstances, and as such I'm of the belief that his level of income is under jeopardy.

This has little to do with sports and a lot to do with economics. Same goes for Ferrari and their threat, I think it has to be taken seriously. Most manufacturers will try and make Formula E work, because a) it's cheap, b) it's greenwashing and c) there are no Ecclestones or Agnellis there.

[Blerpa]

Everyone and their dog will be on Formula E.
And thank fuck for the, hopefully quick, final demise of DTM - a stupid regional waste of money of a series.

With that said... Ferrari would hurt not being in F1.
It would definitely tarnish its reputation.
It is like if Real Madrid would leave Champions League or England would leave Six Nations Cup.
Ferrari is not Toyota that makes econoboxes and SUVs and is not Rolls Royce either which lives its heritage entirely on the luxury appeal: the red cars brand may be a luxury one, but it means nothing without racing in F1.
Do you know that in Italy, even among F1 fans, there are many people that ignore that Ferrari races in GT too (GT3s the case being)? Or in any other series outside F1 in general?

Rich people with allure for the red sport cars don't give a damn about anything else but F1.
Because F1 is the top. Look at it like aloof Apple iPhone owners.
You don't get bragging rights by the brand of a BoP GT customer race car. You get it with the brand of the most winning F1 team in history.
Even if you drive the road version of that very same GT customer race car.

Vettel is in talk for a renewal for a smaller amount of money.
Ferrari cannot lavishly spend on drivers as it seems or seemed in the past, and so far the only reasonable talks in Italy have been about staying in F1 AND, alongside, either going to the Hypercar WEC category (the LaFerrari successor will be suited for it) or the brand new LMDh class.

[FaultyMario]

I think the key variable in the here and now is Camilleri.

That dude was able to navigate Altria (holding company of Phillip Morris and Kraft Foods) through some rough waters in the early 2000s. That man is forward looking and if he thinks he can generate more value in the medium term by cutting Ferrari off from F1, he already has a plan to do it.

[Blerpa]

Point is, he can try to change the DNA of Ferrari's history and mission (good luck with that, probably easier to make Trump a commie) but he cannot change how the public perceives F1.
F1 in Europe and Asia is like Nascar in US: nothing else exist and matters. Not even MotoGP or Le Mans.
You are a racing team and out of it? You do not exist.

[Rare White Ape]

Plus there will be a lot of backlash from the surface-level F1 watching pundits if Ferrari bows out. The brand damage would be quite sizeable, but not unfixable in the longer term.

[Freude am Fahren]

That reminds me of an anecdote from my chilhood.

Mid '90s. Can't remember if before or after Schumacher got to Ferrari, but sure it was before they won.

My dad had some friends over. I think my mom told me that one of them liked Ferrari. I had a nice collection of 1:18 models (F40, F50, 348, etc.). So I went to him and asked him about what Ferraris he liked and if he wanted to see them or something. He basically was like "I don't care, I just like them F1"

It was that day I fell in hate with the Scuderia. And I didn't even start watching F1 for another year or two I think.

[samoht]

Sebastian Vettel to leave Ferrari at the end of the year - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52612216

Sounds like Ferrari were offering a lot less money and shorter commitment than he was prepared to accept, so no contract renewal beyond this year.

Also means it's an outside chance he never drives a Ferrari again, if the season gets written off entirely.

[FaultyMario]

Poor Sainz. Or you think Brown is going to let Lando go, to make room? Or is "the switch" that makes people interested in F1 being engineered by Toto and Chase, are they sweetening Ferraris ear by offering Lewis?

[Rare White Ape]

Mario, sometimes your posts require an Antikythera mechanism to decipher :lol:

Care to provide some context for us?

[Freude am Fahren]

So first part suggests Vettel to McLaren and that Sainz is the one to go to make room. But maybe Lando?

Second is harder to decipher. People think that Toto Wolff and Chase Carey are trying to get Lewis to Ferrari, and Vettel to Mercedes? Maybe?

[FaultyMario]

Exactly.

I firmly believe that F1 has no future after covid. As it stands.

Of all the major sporting events Motorsports are the most affected by the global recession. Plus F1 is one of those aspirational products for which the middle classes will have little expendable income to dedicate to. There's no way teams can maintain their lavish lifestyle with a fraction of the income they used to have. Spending half a billion euros per season was a road to ruin even before the health emergency.

My guess is that Ferrari is politicking his way into maintaining a vantage position for when those moving forward plans -that are currently being drafted- come into effect.

Toto Wolff stands to lose a lot. He is part owner of the Mercedes team (like Horner with Red Bull), but he also manages a stable of young drivers (like the Todts) so he is working closely with Liberty to ensure that formula one has a viable future.

I have two suspicions, one is that he holds shares in the larger business and that's why he was a front runner to replace Carey, as was reported before the pandemic broke. Number two is that he could be working to sweeten a deal to keep Ferrari happy (in the able to win championships sense) in order to leverage a medium term plan that sees most of the current teams survive.

They're going to move a lot of things around in the coming weeks.

[Blerpa]

Sainz is Ferrari's first choice: he is young (25), he already has 5 F1 seasons in his cv, good developer, good team player, quick, solid and does not make many mistakes. Also he speaks perfect italian and his surname has international recognition.
He does not cost as much as Ricciardo, too.
Ricciardo will jump ship to Mclaren.
Vettel? Unless Mercedes will want to open a giant can of worms he will be limited to Racing Point and few other choices.
Either he surprises people with an outstanding season or his time in F1 is close to the end.

[FaultyMario]

Sainz is Ferrari's first choice: he is young (25), he already has 5 F1 seasons in his cv, good developer, good team player, quick, solid and does not make many mistakes. Also he speaks perfect italian and his surname has international recognition.


Those are the rumors I've heard (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EX07LUiWsAAbEXM.jpg), as well.

[FaultyMario]

Eddie Jordan has said that my undocumented suspicions are correct. According to him, Lewis is already signed to Ferrari.

Say what you will about him, but his past predictions have been pretty accurate.

[FaultyMario]

It all comes back to Bernie. He sold off a bunch of contracts that expire this year. In effect there is nothing concrete about a 2021 F1 season.

Man's a fucking genius. An evil dwarf of a genius.

[FaultyMario]

Now that Vettel is officially announced to be leaving Maranello, this is how He and Alonso fare against other and to the obvious Ferrari benchmark.




Races
Wins
Poles
Fastest Laps
Podium
One win for every...
Avg. WDC position


Alonso
96
11
4
8
44
8.7 races
3.2


Vettel
102
14
12
14
54
7.3 races
3.2


Schumacher
181
72
58
53
116
2.5 races
2

[samoht]

Eddie Jordan has said that my undocumented suspicions are correct. According to him, Lewis is already signed to Ferrari.

Say what you will about him, but his past predictions have been pretty accurate.

I still don't see it. Mercedes are overall better - better at making a good car, better teamwork, better strategy. And almost more importantly, Lewis feels supported by his team, as well as being allowed to live his life as he wishes outside F1. It would be much much harder for him to thrive at Ferrari, and I can't see why he'd do that.

The only scenario I can see is if Merc quit F1 to invest more in electric cars etc. However, it turns out that F1 isn't actually that expensive - it's losing at F1 that's expensive. If you simply ensure that you win all the titles and most of the races, then you end up with a very reasonable net outlay, which is easily justified within your marketing budget.

[FaultyMario]

I still don't see it. Mercedes are overall better - better at making a good car, better teamwork, better strategy. And almost more importantly, Lewis feels supported by his team, as well as being allowed to live his life as he wishes outside F1. It would be much much harder for him to thrive at Ferrari, and I can't see why he'd do that.

Suppose the 2020 is run and a champion is crowned when it ends. The most likely scenario is for Hamilton to win and to equal Schumacher at 7 WDCs.
The financial balance sheet for the whole business is going to be in shambles, with a lot of payments being fought for in courts all over the world.

What is the cost-benefit analysis for Hamilton in that scenario?

Of course Vettel was being offered more to drive elsewhere, he has been very German about his family and his future throughout his career... at the dusk of his time in F1 he is hoping for financial security. Hamilton has that, his motivations are different and the red allure is a part of the glamour that he has seeked to be associated with for a long time.

[MR2 Fan]

I still don't see it. Mercedes are overall better - better at making a good car, better teamwork, better strategy. And almost more importantly, Lewis feels supported by his team, as well as being allowed to live his life as he wishes outside F1. It would be much much harder for him to thrive at Ferrari, and I can't see why he'd do that.

I remember when most people thought he was crazy to leave McLaren with many of the same statements

[FaultyMario]

Does this sound like done deal to you?


"Sebastian is a great driver, a major personality and an asset to any Formula 1 team [...] When looking to the future, our first loyalty lies with the current Mercedes drivers, but naturally we must take this development into consideration."

- Wolff (https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-vettel-future-line-up-wolff/4791367/).

[samoht]

I remember when most people thought he was crazy to leave McLaren with many of the same statements

He left McLaren off the back of four years of failure. He would be leaving Mercedes off the back of five or six world titles in seven years. I can't see any reason to believe he'd have better prospects at Ferrari than the surely very high chance he has of continuing his success with Merc, and I've not heard anyone make that argument. It's all about the brand or some idea he would move to make F1 more interesting / marketable.

[Rare White Ape]

Oh man. The prospect of a Ricciardo/Norris pair-up at McLaren…


https://youtu.be/l20BlZn1yv4

[samoht]

Near-confirmation now https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52627900

"Ferrari will envisage Sainz in the type of back-up role Valtteri Bottas plays to Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes - quick enough to be close to him and engage in battle with other front-runners but not the team leader"
- makes total sense, they need stability and harmony to re-build a successful team with a clear focus on Leclerc.

"McLaren have been chasing Ricciardo for some time and his signing is a coup.... Ricciardo has now decided that McLaren are a better bet for the future - a decision partly influenced by their switch to Mercedes engines for the 2021 season."

"Renault are said to be keen to promote one of their young drivers to the role but Vettel and double world champion Fernando Alonso have been mentioned as possible contenders."
IMHO if they are serious about becoming a winning team they should employ a race-winner alongside Ocon.

[Godson]

Rumor has it, Vettel to MB.....

[samoht]

Rumor has it, Vettel to MB.....

Merc want to be developing a young driver for when Hamilton retires, not messing around with Vettel IMHO. But anything's possible, it might give them a bit of a marketing boost in their home market?

[Blerpa]

Rumor has it, Vettel to MB.....

Rumour has it, even Renault is more inclined to Alonso than to Vettel.
Either MB loses its marbles (wasting a lot of money for an expensive contract in a period when the german manufacturer is reducing the F1 team budget) or Vettel is on the way out.

Anyhow: it is official, Sainz to Ferrari for 1 year+1 option year as second driver, Ricciardo at Mclaren.
Redbull and Toro Rosso have no interest in Vettel.
Racing Point/Aston Martin has the boss' son and a solid Perez which also brings sponsors.
Haas? Williams? Alfa Romeo? Hahahahaha.

[samoht]

Incidentally, if Vettel leaves or was to go to Merc, then only two teams would be employing former World Champions; Mercedes... and Alfa Romeo. So literally no other top team apart from Merc would have a driver with the experience of successfully winning a championship over a season. (Unless Alonso returns to a top team I guess).

[samoht]

In other news McLaren pawns its old cars to stay afloat ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52659194

[Rare White Ape]

Incidentally, if Vettel leaves or was to go to Merc, then only two teams would be employing former World Champions; Mercedes... and Alfa Romeo. So literally no other top team apart from Merc would have a driver with the experience of successfully winning a championship over a season. (Unless Alonso returns to a top team I guess).

What about Hamilton?

Did the rumours forget to account for him somehow?

[Rare White Ape]

Ferrari’s 2021 lineup looks like the youngest driver pairing they’ve ever had. Would this be correct?

[FaultyMario]

Ricciardo/Norris is probably the next Senna/Berger in terms of dumbfuckery.

A most welcomed development.

[FaultyMario]

What about Hamilton?

Did the rumours forget to account for him somehow?

"Former", you know, different from "defending" world champion.

[Freude am Fahren]

Doesn't really matter, either way, still just Merc and Alfa. Unless you suggest that Hamilton goes somewhere else? Where?

As a McLaren fan, I can't wait for next season. Let's just hope the car isn't shit.

[Rare White Ape]

Doesn't really matter, either way, still just Merc and Alfa. Unless you suggest that Hamilton goes somewhere else? Where?

In my head I thought everyone was talking about Vettel replacing Hamilton, and keeping Bottas in the team. I didn’t think a Vet/Ham team would go down too well with either of them…

[FaultyMario]

Doesn't really matter, either way, still just Merc and Alfa. Unless you suggest that Hamilton goes somewhere else? Where?

I completely misunderstood Mick.

What Hamilton does sets in motion yet another round of musical chairs, or not.

Did anybody else think Abiteboul's public statements were a little, salty, the whole "loyalty is a core value in F1"... Renault wasn't that loyal to either Sainz or Hulk, right?, plus who could blame Ricciardo from jumping out after the yacht of a car he was given last year, that thing was so boaty he couldn't even drive it in reverse!

[Freude am Fahren]

I figure with Sainz confirmed at Ferrari, Hamilton isn't going anywhere other than Mercedes or a golf course. Only team that maybe could think about paying him and needs a driver is Renault, and I can't see him agreeing to that. ...edit: for '21 anyway. I guess we could have two big silly season in a row for '22. Sainz is on a 1 & 1 in Ferrari I think, so if he under-performs, maybe Ham could go for #8 in a Ferrari? Schumacher fans would looove that lol.

And yeah, it's common in most sports that managers expect talent to be loyal to teams, but not the other way around. Then it's just business. Hypocritical pricks most of them.

[Blerpa]

Tentative 2020 F1 updated calendar:

5 July: Red Bull Ring
12 July: Red Bull Ring "2"
26 July: Silverstone (or Hockenheim)
2 August: Silverstone "2" (or Hockenheim)
9 August: Hungaroring
23 August: Barcellona
30 August: Spa-Francorchaps
6 September: Monza
20 September: Baku
27 September: Sochi
4 October: Shanghai
11 October: Suzuka
25 October: Austin
1 November: Messico
8 November: Interlagos
22 November: Vietnam
29 November: Bahrain
6 December: Bahrain "2"
13 December: Abu Dhabi

[samoht]

Did anybody else think Abiteboul's public statements were a little, salty, the whole "loyalty is a core value in F1"... Renault wasn't that loyal to either Sainz or Hulk, right?, plus who could blame Ricciardo from jumping out after the yacht of a car he was given last year, that thing was so boaty he couldn't even drive it in reverse!

Yeah, lots of ppl seem to think that.

https://twitter.com/IamDarrenCox/status/1261204216770637827

For someone that worked in the Renault group for two decades this culture is familiar
The Ghosn legacy is still strong and got everywhere
Contrast that with the @MercedesAMGF1
‘no blame’ culture I have witnessed and roots of success and failure become clearer

[samoht]

I figure with Sainz confirmed at Ferrari, Hamilton isn't going anywhere other than Mercedes or a golf course.

Indeed. Fundamentally there are three top teams, and each now has a clear 'star' #1 and 'dependable' #2 driver for the 2021 season. Fans may not like this, but it is probably in general the optimum strategy for a team. And it's not clear why Hamilton would walk away from the chance to become the most successful driver of all time.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYEe2mSWoAMl0iW.jpg

[Godson]

The "no blame" culture is a recipe for success.

We do that here at work, and it is phenomenal. It really builds people into a "people v. Problem" instead of "why did you do this?" Scenario.


It's huge.

[samoht]

The "no blame" culture is a recipe for success.

We do that here at work, and it is phenomenal. It really builds people into a "people v. Problem" instead of "why did you do this?" Scenario.

It's huge.

I agree, it allows an organisation to look at its failures honestly, learn from them and do better next time.

(It was also funny hearing Jolyon Palmer discussing Abiteboul's comment about loyalty on the BBC :D )


I do wonder if Ferrari are finally going to make a fresh start under Binotto, who said "We want to begin a new cycle" and described Sainz as "a real team player". Maybe with the new boss, clearing out the sometimes-uncooperative Vettel, they could build a harmonious team around Charles Leclerc and work together effectively?

The current season will be interesting when it gets underway, I recommend that Ferrari don't even try and issue any team orders and just let their drivers race from start to finish. Any entries for a sweepstake on how often the two cars will take each other out in 2020 ?


It seems significant that McLaren have basically said, out of Vettel and Ricciardo, they'd rather have Daniel. I suppose the 2014 season supports this, but it's a huge blow to Vettel's reputation that despite all his success, he's not wanted by any top or even aspiring teams.

BBC think Renault are interested in an Alonso comeback, which is understandable as they've little to lose from him and he's probably the most talented driver available.

[Freude am Fahren]

Also, I'm sure they see longevity in Ric. Someone who can help the team for half a decade maybe, not a year or two before going home.

Apparently some French publication has said there is an actual "pre-agreement" signed of Alonso at Renault...

[FaultyMario]

Oh God, just when I thought that self-obsessed cheater was gone.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It seems significant that McLaren have basically said, out of Vettel and Ricciardo, they'd rather have Daniel. I suppose the 2014 season supports this, but it's a huge blow to Vettel's reputation that despite all his success, he's not wanted by any top or even aspiring teams.

BBC think Renault are interested in an Alonso comeback, which is understandable as they've little to lose from him and he's probably the most talented driver available.

I think any reasonable person who's not totally in love with Vettel should end up drawing the same conclusion. Daniel kicked Vettel's ass during their RB days.

What I found disappointing was Ferrari ended up not picking up Ricciardo..., but I guess Ferrari for sure ain't gonna promise him #1 status over their favorite Charlie boy. I can understand Danny boy wish to avoid the same nightmare he experienced with Max at RB! :D

Still, I wish Ricciardo would maintain his I don't care who's my teammate because I'm going to kick his ass attitude. Senna didn't care who his senior teammate is. Hamilton didn't care. Max didn't care. Leclerc didn't care... they'll just drive their balls off and make the teams worship them as #1 and make the senior teammate leave in disgust. I suspect once these drivers cement themselves as #1, their future teammates will never be able to really challenge them.

I think Vettel has somewhat compromised himself by running away from RB... and now failing to fully demonstrate himself as the rightful #1 in Ferrari as well. I do hope Ricciardo won't end up on a similar career path. McLaren does have Lando for him to deal with... Anyway, getting out of Renault now is probably the right career move atm.

As for Alonso and Renault, yeah, these 2 always seem to end up working well for some odd reason. Wonder if they could make the magic happen again? (Hopefully not by cheating?)

[Blerpa]

Senna actually did. And lobbied Prost out of Mclaren.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, Senna beat him both on and off the track. My point was that Senna didn’t pick up his ball and go play with another team because of teammate. He’d run his teammates over whether on or off track.

Vettel ran way from RB when a younger teammate seemed to be gaining favor.
Ricciardo did too when Max turned up the heat.

I just thought great drivers would never have to do that.

Prost is a pretty awesome driver but because of that, I wouldn’t consider him as one of the greats. He measured himself against one of the greats and he fell short.

Anyway, just saying that I wish Ricciardo would lean more toward the senna side rather then Prost side later on in his career..., but then again, maybe we have plenty of sennas atm? Hamilton, Max, leclerc... ;)

[Yobbo NZ]

And Senna also vetoed Warwick from joining Lotus as he was worried he'd beat him. Which led to Derek facing a downward spiral of mediocre and shit cars for the rest of his career.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That I did not know because I only started following F1 when senna was already with Mclaren. Was senna not as confident back in the lotus days? Or perhaps Warwick really could’ve put senna way?

I guess we’ll never know...

[Yobbo NZ]

He was up and coming. Joined Renault at the end of their success, so missed out there.
Ended up joining Lotus later on, by then they were pretty rubbish.

[Rare White Ape]

British government quarantine rules throw cat amongst F1’s 2020 plans’ pigeons:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/silverstone-british-gp-government-quarantine/4793934/

[dodint]

If an F1 race has to be left off, I'm okay if it's Silverstone. That proposal where they ran Silverstone twice in a row was just terrible.

[samoht]

For sale: Formula One Team, one careful owner
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1266270487035777031

"Williams is considering selling the entire company as one option in a strategic review after posting a loss of £13m last year. A momentous decision, as Sir Frank Williams had always previously been against selling up. No details of whether there is a buyer yet. Options being considered include, but are not limited to, raising new capital for the business, a divestment of a minority stake in Williams Grand Prix Holdings, or a divestment of a majority stake in WGPH including a potential sale of the whole company," a statement says"

[Rare White Ape]

Ouch :(

[FaultyMario]

Will we even have teams to put on a show?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Even if I could afford to buy it, I'm not sure I would. Besides the point that the team is lagging behind the rest, but considering what the world is going thru right now...

So sad... the team that ended Senna's life might be nearing then end...

[Rare White Ape]

Will we even have teams to put on a show?

Yes. Low budget ones.

They will all be using 3-year-old chassis designs.

I would be ok with this.

[FaultyMario]

I wouldn't be sure of that. Aren't McLaren, Williams and Renault praying to $Deity?

Can Sauber and Haas be safer than those?

[Rare White Ape]

Sauber is heavily bankrolled by Alfa Romeo, so they’re safe as long as Fiat is interested. Haas probably hasn’t lost enough money yet.

Actually, let’s look at the whole grid.

Ferrari: owned by the Agnelli mafia, with unlimited cash reserves. F1 management would also ensure Ferrari stays alive just for the heritage factor.

Mercedes: unlimited money, but potentially limited interest. Can be sold for a big figure to someone else if the talent (drivers and engineers) stays put.

Red Bull: unlimited money, driven by marketing appeal, so they’re the safest bet apart from Ferrari.

Renault: I feel this team will return to private ownership within 3 years if Renault doesn’t get results. Benetton Racing 3.0 anyone? Or was it 4.0?

Racing Point: afloat as long as industrialist owner doesn’t piss away all his cash on silly vanity projects.

McLaren: currently on the hunt for capitol. Zak Brown doesn’t seem like the sort of guy who wants to lose face, so will do whatever he needs to remain in charge. Hopefully continuing last year’s strong results in the next few months give them a boost.

AlphaTauri: same as Red Bull. All the money and all the marketing push they want. Is also a feeder team to RBR. Safe as houses, although I’d love to see them cut loose and return to using the Minardi name.

Williams: in deep trouble. But, as always in F1, there is usually someone willing to jizz vanity money onto it. I predict an overweight coal mine owner will buy it then sell it to a manufacturer in five years when things are looking up again. Porsche or Audi is my guess; the time will be right for an e-tron technology showcase.

[FaultyMario]

I do not share your optimism.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m usually optimistic but I’m with sr. Mario...

Nobody has unlimited amount of money. A spectacular sport that requires regular international travel... sure, when we have an effective treatment or vaccine... otherwise...

As for manufacturers, recall that Honda withdrew due to financial crisis. I think Tesla has already been eating Mercedes and BMWs lunch precovid19, now that sales have slowed, we’d be lucky to not see more withdrawals... rather than more manufacturers buying in.

[FaultyMario]

Tesla was eating what now?

Isn't most of the IP needed for building electrical vehicles in economies of scales owned by that consortium of German and Japanese car makers?

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/10/tesla-model-3-outsold-bmw-mercedes-audi-lexus-competitors-in-2nd-quarter-in-usa-by-a-landslide/amp/

This is an old article before the pandemic, sales figures comparison of Tesla’s and other European makers.

Surely the pandemic will be causing a slump of the entire car industry just like the financial crisis.

So point was I don’t think we can assume car makers having unlimited amount of money.

[FaultyMario]

Was recently reminded that F1 had to opt for F2 spec cars for the 52 season when manufacturer involvement left them in the cold.

[Rare White Ape]

I’d like to address the notion of big manufacturer involvement in F1.

I think it’s a myth that they are needed. Yes, they do bring mountains of money to a team. But at most manuf. involvement is normally no more than 30% of the grid.

Currently we have Mercedes and Renault.

I leave Ferrari and McLaren off the list because they are not manufacturers in the same sense. They are small and the automotive business supports the primary racing business, whereas big car makers use racing as a marketing exercise to support the car selling business.

If all of the manufacturers left F1 tomorrow the grid would be made up of extremely talented smaller teams. Unless they put nooses around the necks of the likes of Toto Wolff and keep them under wing… which isn’t going to happen. These people are sportspeople just like their drivers are and they’re also competing against each other, because the allure of winning a world championship is just as strong on the other side of pit wall.

If the big shareholder driven conglomerates departed, their spots will be readily filled by keen team managers and racing car designers. The engines would come from specialist engine builders. Most of the same people would be doing the work.

The budgets would be lower but that would attract more sponsorship dollars. All things would be in balance, and it might actually be less wasteful and more sustainable.

You know that the precedent has already been set in the modern era for what can happen if a car manufacturer pulls the pin and leaves a promising team of sportspeople to operate the remainder on a shoestring budget.

[Blerpa]

What RWA said. Less manufacturers in F1 the better.

[FaultyMario]

I don't disagree with either of you.

It's just that the sport is not set up to accommodate "a promising team of sportspeople to operate on a shoestring budget".

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I agree with all of you, less dependence on the manufacturers the better in a way, but not really sure F1 and shoestring budget will work out either.

Anyway, besides healthy financing for all teams, the entire sport is in an existential threat... IC engine development is probably as good as it's gonna get... and then climate change, and now a global pandemic...

Forget the teams for a minute, can track owners survive without the crowds? And imagine those new tracks..., they financed God knows how much and expected to make some money back this year... but nope.

Things have totally changed in 2020. Not really sure if anyone can see clearly at the moment... maybe only in hindsight.

[FaultyMario]

Yes, tracks are fucked. The rate of increase of investment at which Bernie subjected them was delinquent.

[Rare White Ape]

I don't disagree with either of you.

It's just that the sport is not set up to accommodate "a promising team of sportspeople to operate on a shoestring budget".

I think it is.

It’s just also very set up to accommodate a billion-dollar budget when the mood strikes.

[Kchrpm]

I wonder what percentage of budgets can be covered by energy drinks now to fill in where tobacco companies used to. Tobacco companies shouldered such a heavy load, I don't know if enough energy drink companies of the proper size and funding exist to do that now.

[Rare White Ape]

Tobacco companies are way bigger than energy drink brands.

Of the current crop, I can think of only Red Bull, Monster, and Rockstar that could afford to sponsor a wide range of motorsports events and be sustainable to the company.

Certainly only Red Bull could be naming rights sponsor, and they've gone a few magnitudes higher and own two eams.

Monster goes as far as putting logos on Lewis Hamilton's helmet, and maybe some other minor things I'm not currently aware of. They do sponsor the Yamaha MotoGP team, but that's a much cheaper operation.

There was one other outfit who infamously imploded last year, because it turned out they crafted some very... rich stories.

So yeah, I don't think chasing sponsorship dollars from energy drink brands is worthwhile.

[Rare White Ape]

Anyway, I came here to post this. The first 8 rounds of season 2020 (the apocalypse season) have been confirmed.

Two back-to-back races in Austria and the UK, plus two one-week breaks in July and August. F1, F2, and F3 confirmed to be taking part. All races at this stage will be held behind closed doors.

They are hoping to get to rounds outside of Europe but that depends on government restrictions at various ports of call. There are other European tracks on standby if something happens to the current schedule.



Formula 1 Rolex Grosser Preis von Osterreich
The Red Bull Ring, Austria
July 3-5


Formula 1 Pirelli Grosser Preis der Steiermark
The Red Bull Ring, Austria
July 10-12


Formula 1 Aramco Magyar Nagydij
The Hungaroring, Hungary
July 17-19


Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix
Silverstone, UK
July 31 - August 2


Emirates Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix
Silverstone, UK
August 7-9


Formula 1 Aramco Gran Premio de Espana
Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya, Spain
August 14-16


Formula 1 Rolex Belgian Grand Prix
Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium
August 28-30


Formula 1 Gran Premio Heineken d'Italia
Monza, Italy
September 4-6

[Alan P]

Anyway, I came here to post this. The first 8 rounds of season 2020 (the apocalypse season) have been confirmed.

Two back-to-back races in Austria and the UK, plus two one-week breaks in July and August. F1, F2, and F3 confirmed to be taking part. All races at this stage will be held behind closed doors.

They are hoping to get to rounds outside of Europe but that depends on government restrictions at various ports of call. There are other European tracks on standby if something happens to the current schedule.



Formula 1 Rolex Grosser Preis von Osterreich
The Red Bull Ring, Austria
July 3-5


Formula 1 Pirelli Grosser Preis der Steiermark
The Red Bull Ring, Austria
July 10-12


Formula 1 Aramco Magyar Nagydij
The Hungaroring, Hungary
July 17-19


Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix
Silverstone, UK
July 31 - August 2


Emirates Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix
Silverstone, UK
August 7-9


Formula 1 Aramco Gran Premio de Espana
Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya, Spain
August 14-16


Formula 1 Rolex Belgian Grand Prix
Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium
August 28-30


Formula 1 Gran Premio Heineken d'Italia
Monza, Italy
September 4-6



Some talk that Hockenheim and Mugello might be drafted in too. Which would be awesome. Also some talk of a double header at Sochi. Which would not be awesome. At all.

[Rare White Ape]

Mugello would be awesome. That’s a great track.

I kinda like the Sochi circuit. I’ve never seen a race there, I just like it based on the F1 games!

[Rare White Ape]

Info about Merceds’s recent test where they rehearsed COVID restrictions while prepping cars for a race.

The FIA produced a 18,000 word document of guidelines!


https://youtu.be/au4MG_Fvr9A

[Rare White Ape]

F1 promoters have confirmed there will be no Azerbaijan, Singapore, or Japanese GP this year.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mercedes engine chief is leaving the team... what gives? Just bored or perhaps some other juicy news?

[FaultyMario]

Family?

As in, a bigger a paycheck from elsewhere, more financial security for his family.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't have any clue of course. You guys tend to have way more insider info than me...

At least the news article I read didn't mention that he resigned due to whatever reasons... he just decided to leave.

There are some rumors saying he's aston martin/racing point bound, but I don't see that as a move up.

[Blerpa]

Don't start gossiping, he will stay put at least till the beginning of 2021 and will help transition not one substitute but four!
Read more here:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-hpp-engine-cowell-leaves/4807382/

[FaultyMario]

FWIU F1 is all good for younger people (ooh, traveling!), but as people settle down and start raising a family all the high-pressure environment and the days away from home take a tall on most of them. Putting myself on their shoes, and specially if there from an area where covid19 decimated the older members of their families, I'd take most middle-aged people would want out.

2020 was originally going to have team personnel 21 weekends away from home!

[Crazed_Insanity]

True. After winning so many seasons, there’s really nothing left to prove. For sure this virus isn’t helping too.

[Rare White Ape]

According to the fine folks at Race Department, Mugello and Portimao have been in discussion with the F1 organisers about potentially hosting races this year.

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/f1-mugello-and-portimao-linked-to-2020-schedule.185878/

We've heard about the interest from Mugello Circuit before. If Portimao enters the fray as well then... yeah baby!

[FaultyMario]

Your Honor, at this time the people would offer exhibit #64789 (https://www.racefans.net/2020/06/18/leclerc-drives-ferraris-sf1000-through-maranello/racefansdotnet-20200618-063012-6/)into evidence, to show that Formula One vehicles are disproportionately large. Its authenticity has previously been verified by the residents of Via Abetone Inferiore number 4, in the city of Maranello, Italy.

[Rare White Ape]

I just saw the video of that.

Quite a spectacular way to announce your return to business.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbNxaRkUEAEmz-E.jpg

https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/1275487829049499648

[samoht]

Ferrari have announced that they're giving up on their current approach and starting over aerodynamically, hoping to bring a completely new direction to the third race, in Hungary.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53239512

This seems really bad for them.
1) First two races with a car that is the wrong direction and has had no further developments since pre-season testing. That's 2 out of maybe 16 races, potentially fewer, so >10% of the season with a really slow car
2) Thereafter, they have a car that will likely be compromised by the basic packaging not being designed for the new aero concept, and starting six months behind the rest of the grid in understanding and evolving their approach.

I mean, the yawning chasm between the top three teams and the B-spec pack pretty much guarantees them a concrete floor of 5th and 6th places, but I would now be surprised to see Ferrari challenge for either title this year. With the basic cars being the same, they may even have compromised themselves for 2021, too.

Still, I guess at least it saves Ferrari the embarassment of doing a Williams by having Vettel win the WDC and then be sacked.


So, either Max, Redbull and Honda step up to reach another level this year, or Bottas does, or it'll be a fairly processional championship.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Still, I guess at least it saves Ferrari the embarassment of doing a Williams by having Vettel win the WDC and then be sacked.



:lol:

Yeah, maybe that's their only concern at this point? ;)

Ferrari finished 4th and 5th last year behind the mercedes and Max... was not a great result and it felt like the drivers made quite a few mistakes.

So I guess at least they have realized that even if their drivers drive flawlessly, current design is flawed enough that they'll never catch up to Mercedes... so they might as well write off the 2020 season?

I guess the silverlining is that at least they found their problem?

Kinda feel sorry for Vettel... but oh well, he has won plenty of championships.

[FaultyMario]

By the looks of it Merc are untouchable, Ferrari are plain slow, RB are having 99 problems with their tires, RP looks set to capitalize the opportunity, Macca and Renault are hindered by their power unit, and then the rest of them are bunched in the midfield. Haas are having trouble with their tire management as well and most teams look to be short on spares.

I think RBR are going to fuck this one up. They're all looking too trigger-happy.

[FaultyMario]

Oh, and RBR have lodged a protest against MB's DAS. From what Horner said to Sky during the transmission they're looking for clarification contending that "the primary use of the device is not to steer the car". That can only mean they have their own overly complicated aero version ready to be machined.

[Crazed_Insanity]

FIA banned DAS for 2021, thus implying it is probably within the 2020 regulations.

However, if FIA is really interested in keeping costs down, they really should just act and ban it right away in order to be fair for all teams... or allow such systems to continue so other teams can begin development work to compete properly. What would be the point of giving the reigning world champ another year of advantage? Or should RB really develop DAS for their cars just for this year?

Anyway, I guess just like in RL, winners tend to take all. Gap between the big rich teams and the small teams will only continue to widen until it collapses.

[FaultyMario]

I think that with the rollback of regulations to 2022, DAS Rad can continue to be used in 2021.

[samoht]

By the looks of it Merc are untouchable, Ferrari are plain slow, RB are having 99 problems with their tires, RP looks set to capitalize the opportunity, Macca and Renault are hindered by their power unit, and then the rest of them are bunched in the midfield. Haas are having trouble with their tire management as well and most teams look to be short on spares.

I think RBR are going to fuck this one up. They're all looking too trigger-happy.

BBC said "Red Bull appeared to be suffering from a lack of rear stability, with both drivers complaining of oversteer. Verstappen had two spins while team-mate Alexander Albon had one, providing an echo of pre-season testing, when they denied the car had an aerodynamic problem despite a number of spins for both drivers." Which does sound like a lack of rear downforce, quite possibly due to unstable flow where the aero 'stops working' abruptly under certain conditions, eg in response to yaw or pitch angle changes.

With the championship being shorter, certainly in terms of months and most probably in terms of races, I don't see how anyone can come back at Mercedes if they're all six tenths or more down now. Thinking about it, this could be Bottas' last best chance to be WDC - likely to be an all-Mercedes fight for the title this year, with Toto letting them race if they're not under pressure from anyone else.


PS Protest DENIED against DAS, so Merc will race with driver-controlled toe. Wouldn't be that surprised to see other teams follow, although my understanding is that it is still banned from next year, despite the cars/rules being mostly carried over. After all, if McLaren can swap engines over the winter, Merc can remove their trick steering.

[FaultyMario]

You are right Thomas, Das rad is only allowed for this season.

I also agree with you that Valteri will try to assert some dominance on Lewis early on. Hopefully that leads to a couple of races with squandered points and to a closer championship in the end.

[FaultyMario]

No surprises thru Q1. Out: both Williams, both Alfas and Magnussen.

[stephenb]

F to pay respects to Ferrari

[FaultyMario]

Out in Q2: The other Haas, both Alphas, Ocon and Vettel, who was only 1 tenth behind Leclerc in 10th.

[FaultyMario]

Provisional grid:

Bottas
Hamilton +.012
Verstappen +.538
Norris +.687
Albon +.929
Perez +.929
Leclerc +.984
Sainz +1.032
Stroll +1.090
Ricciardo +1.300

[FaultyMario]

Williams is 7 tenths faster than they were last year. Which is a better improvement than McLaren who are half a second better than last time around.

[FaultyMario]

On that note, all Ferrari powered teams are around 1 second slower.

I honestly don't know why Binotto hasn't been sacked. [His 2020 car is shit, He convinced his bosses not to put an offer on Vettel's table, His team was caught cheating.]

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcGRi1OWsAc2K4F.jpg

https://twitter.com/f1visualized/status/1279463837939482625

[FaultyMario]

It's on!

[stephenb]

What a return! Podium for Norris.

[FaultyMario]

Yeah!

Lando in, RB out! Dream come true!

[JoeW]

Last year every car finished. This year half the field out.

I like seeing McLaren and RP replacing Ferrari on pace. Also happy Williams has improved so much. At least they aren’t 5 secs off anymore.

Next race should be...interesting. RBR has the race pace for a 1/2 finish. Albon would have won this one had Hamilton not pulled another, well, a Hamilton.

[FaultyMario]

What do you guys think of the Ferraris? Is Seb that bad? Is Charles that good?

[JoeW]

You watched it right? Ferrari was poised for both cars to barely make the points. Luckily half the field dropped and/or got penalties.

[Blerpa]

Mercedes is the first contender to the title. RB can be an pain in the ass in few tracks, Mclaren seems robust, Renault better than I thought but reliability is so so and they already announced they won't upgrade their engine during 2020 season (although, being a short season, it won't be that dramatically bad), Racing Point disappointed and may fly but it is still a *one year* old Mercedes clone, so it won't be *that* much of a cheat eventually. Haas is the usual shambles and still having brake problems after one year.
Williams is a little better than last year, but not that much so.
Ferrari? Leclerc drove over the car problems: it is slow, engine is underperforming and it has no nimbleness. One positive: it is a very sturdy car.
Without the safety cars and people dropping out the frenchman wouldn't have been so close up front, but opportunities are there to be taken by talented drivers, obviously.

I watched the GP silently from my mobile phone, so I'm not sure what to say on the Albon - Hamilton accident. Sucks for both, I'm not entirely sure it is not a racing accident but I'm ok with the stewards' decision.
And yes, Albon could have possibly won. Possibly.
LeClerc? Nah.
Oh, almost forgot... Vettel and Stroll on the way out, probably. Grosjean as well, finally.
Can I have a Fuck Yeah! for my man Lando? Damn what a drive! (Carlos too but he was unlucky and not as consistent as Lando).

[JoeW]

I will gladly offer that Fuck Yeah for Lando.

Ferrari is going to be waaay behind at normal tracks if they are this far back at Austria. It kind of makes me a little happy for some reason.

I will gladly say goodbye to Stroll and Grosjean. But I have kinda grown to like Vettel in some small way.

[FaultyMario]

I did watch it.

I think that RP need to up their strategy game to make most of what they have, for as long as they're going to have it. Why they didn't pit Perez is beyond reason. The Mercs can afford to go the distance by starting the race on used tires, none of the other teams can.

As for Vettel, with his incident on Sainz, I think he saw an opportunity and quickly realized his car had no grip, and just prayed he wouldn't smash hard onto something. There's a video of how twitchy the Ferrari gets when putting down power. (https://twitter.com/deadlinex/status/1279825624719392768?s=20) So I don't think he is comfortable with the car's character, he also has a broken relationship with the team. His Q2 exit radio calls (https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/1279421603248574464?s=20)are a proof of that.

Leclerc, he got a lucky break, with Albon losing out in the contact and with Checo on old rubber. Take Checo out of that equation and the Maccas would have kept pace with him. Also both black cars were on baby mode for the last third of the race. I don't think that two healthy Mercs fighting it out would have stayed within 10 seconds of third place. There was that one chance and Charlie took it, no ifs or buts. It just feels that it's going to be hard for him to replicate a podium with that car, in a more normal race.

[Rare White Ape]

I punched the air just now watching the highlights when Norris closed that gap! I so happy for him.

Last night I watched up to halfway then went to bed. Looks like all the good stuff came after lap 40.

I saw that Norris simply could not get out of fifth place for the whole race. He’d get promoted due to incidents ahead but then someone new would come from behind to have a go. What a finish!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Lando will most likely be the new Max!

I think Hamilton has really been an asshole to Albon. These couple contacts with Albon seemed more like mistakes on Hamilton’s part than racing incidents.

Anyway, glad to see Bottas win... and leading Hamilton by so much! :p

[JoeW]

I’m going to say that Albon looks to be poised for the next greatness title over those other guys. The kind of shit he pulls or tries to pull just puts a smile on my face.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I’m also guessing Hamilton didn’t want Albon to actually pull these stunts off to make him look bad... so he’d rather risk penalties/crashes to try to psychologically deter him, but I get the feeling Albon’s not getting the msg... ;)

[FaultyMario]

George Russell is it.

[JoeW]

As in all things...time will tell. I will root for the driver I most identify with and that is Albon.

[Godson]

Happy for Lando.

Grosjean's mistakes I believe we're all braking related. Either way, he should go.

[Tom Servo]

Holy shit, I'm not a big Lando fan, but goddamn if he didn't pull out every single little bit of pace he needed to get that podium. That was good stuff.

[Crazed_Insanity]

As in all things...time will tell. I will root for the driver I most identify with and that is Albon.

You’ve broken up with Max? I’m not ready to dump him yet...