MotoGP 2020

[Freude am Fahren]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJrCPTTWsAAORuh.png:large

Alex Marquez to be the #2 to his brother at Repsol Honda.

[Blerpa]

I mean, blackmail worked. We all knew it beforehand.

[Dicknose]

Interesting even if it was expected.
Clearly they will work together as teammates, which can be a positive, but I dont think Alex will push Marc that much.

[Rare White Ape]

I said the same thing about Lorenzo :lol:

[Freude am Fahren]

What's interesting to me, is that ever since Pedrosa left (maybe before), I think Honda has designed a bike that is basically unridable by anyone but Marc. So it will be interesting to see if Alex can handle the bike.

[Rare White Ape]

It’s possibly more nuanced than that.

They will always design a bike to suit whoever has the greatest chance of winning.

It just so happens that Marquez’s riding style is much more extreme than everyone else’s. There has been a lineage beginning in the 800cc era from Stoner to Marquez where the riding style is very loose but precise, like a controlled hand grenade. They can extract speed by being on-edge all the time, while riders who prefer smooth pin-sharp accuracy like Lorenzo have no chance.

Back in the Doohan-Rossi era, they were able to develop a bike (both 500cc NSR and 990cc RC211V) that anyone could win on. It was extremely versatile, which was why riders like Criville, Barros, Gibernau, Biaggi, Pedrosa and Hayden were able to have some success.

When Rossi moved to Yamaha, he and the team fed information back to the manufacturer and they built a bike to beat Honda almost overnight using a similar philosophy. Rossi remains the only rider to win two titles back-to-back on different machinery. Then Lorenzo came along and joined Rossi, and found himself riding a pre-made bike that suited him so much that straight away he was almost unbeatable.

Move Lorenzo, a proven alien, from a Rossi-developed bike to a Marquez-developed bike, and you can see where the different priorities lie, and it tells you a lot about the riding style of the day’s prevailing champion. Rossi just happens to have a style that fits with a lot of different riders, while Marquez doesn’t. They are fast in their own unique ways.

[Dicknose]

Totally agree...

Stoner and Marquez are much further ahead of where their teammates were on the same bike (Stoner on the Ducati more so than the Honda)
In Stoners case it seemed more of him taming a fast but hard to ride bike. Marquez, its a bike that has evolved in a direction for his style.

[Dicknose]

Well so much for the start of the season...
Qatar MotoGP race is cancelled due to the travel restrictions from Italy due to COVID19.
I guess too many teams/riders are based in Italy.

But by a lucky twist, Moto2 and Moto3 can happen as the teams had been in Qatar doing testing.

I hope they get the Italian based people to move somewhere else for the next few months, the restriction is typically "been in Italy in the last 14 days". So need to get them somewhere that will take them asap. Otherwise its going to be a messed up season.

[Rare White Ape]

With a few of the teams the bikes and parts are made in Japan but the team is based in Italy. Most of the personnel are in Spain though, but if Ducati teams and Yamaha can’t take part then it’s only fair that none should take part.

Once they clear the two-week quarantine they’ll be ok, but the real problem is having to go back to base after each round to prepare for the next one.

[Dicknose]

Once they clear the two-week quarantine they’ll be ok, but the real problem is having to go back to base after each round to prepare for the next one.

They might have to treat it like the "fly away" sequences where they do a few races before returning.

[Freude am Fahren]

Also for US folks, MotoGP and WSBK are both on NBCSN this year, which is great news, since it's much more widely available than BEIN sports. :up:

Even 4 GPs will be on NBC proper, which is awesome. Although interestingly, not the USGP.

However, 11 of the races will be tape-delayed. And I'm sure no FP or Qualifying coverage :|

Also, only 6 WSBK races will be covered, not the whole season. Though I'm not sure if it's both races or just race 2 from the 6 locations.

It's not perfect, but at least I don't need to spend over $100 for the video pass. Maybe if they get good feedback, they'll add more coverage at least on their app next year.

[Rare White Ape]

They might have to treat it like the "fly away" sequences where they do a few races before returning.

Maybe once they get to Europe it will be ok. I’m not aware of any travel restrictions for Italians in continental Europe, and the Italian GP will be a few months down the track when this has surely either died down or gone rampant enough that people will be free to travel regardless of location.

[JoeW]

Sooo Race 1 was quite the spectacle.

[Dicknose]

Yes it was. Some amazing stuff then almost a let down.
But nice to see a new winner and basically just great to see them out on the track.

[JoeW]

Had some nice highsides this weekend. Good to see Rossi get a podium.

Tried to find some solid info on this but I’ll just ask here:

It’s been many years since I followed MotoGP(filling my F1 gap). But when I stopped there were some teams still running different engine configurations like VTwin, in-line 4 etc. It sounds like everyone is running V4 now. Is this true?

Also everyone is talking about Quartararo, and he is definitely a good rider. But he is clearly 2nd fastest. Marquez is just in a different world than anyone else right now.

Now I’m going to watch some GP 500 races on YouTube...because so much power and so little traction.

[Dicknose]

World Superbike has more variety in engines, since they are based on production engines.

I dont remember twins, Honda used a V5.
There was a mix of inline and V4, but it seems V4 has won out.

[JoeW]

Memory fades but didn’t Ducati start with a twin? Maybe I am confusing WSB with MotoGP now...

Yeah looked it up. The twins were WSB.

[Rare White Ape]

Ducati started with a V4. The last twin in MotoGP was a two-stroke.

Currently the makeup is this:

V4:
Honda
Ducati
Suzuki
Aprilia

I4:
Yamaha

In the past we had V5s, triples (Aprilia RS3) and whatnot.

[JoeW]

So at the Czech GP I have to call BS on the penalty to Zarco.

[Freude am Fahren]

As upset as I was seeing Pol go down in what may have been a KTM 1-2 for their maiden victory, and Zarco has kinda seemed like a twat ever since he left Tech3... I kinda agree. But I'm no motorcycle racer, and other than Ducati, I hadn't heard much protest.

That said, Zarco made that penalty about as small as possible. That long lap was pretty impressive.

[Rare White Ape]

I have to agree with Simon Crafar’s assessment of the incident: Zarco didn’t get his bike into the gap early enough, and neither rider could see the other. Plus, as Crafar said, the racing line there requires that bikes will run it wide (though not as wide as Pol Asparagus was) before hooking it in for a second apex in order to shoot it straight out for a good exit into turn 2, and Zarco HAD to have known that that was the line Esparago was going to take eventually, given that he really did still have the right to take that apex.

It is incumbent on the passing rider to not cause an incident, and Zarco failed here.

[JoeW]

Yeah that was pretty funny.

This is my first year following motorcycle racing since the early 2000s so I had no idea KTM hadn’t won anything before. That was cool to witness.

[JoeW]

Here is how Casey Stoner saw it...

Former MotoGP world champion Casey Stoner has called out MotoGP officials over the decision to give Johann Zarco a long-lap penalty during tonight’s race at Brno.

“That’s discrasful [sic] MotoGP,” Stoner said in a tweet.

“Zarco did nothing wrong, if you run wide you cannot expect to cut back to the curb without anyone being there. Terrible call from the officials.”

[Freude am Fahren]

That's kinda what I was thinking at first. Had Pol just run out like normal it'd be one thing, but he ran way wide. I feel like if you're defending and run that wide, you have to expect to have someone inside. I've seen it happen plenty of times before and sometimes they see them last second and stand up a bit. But then usually the rider passing is even at least. I think Zarco was just a bit too far behind to stay there.

But then Stoner was a Ducati man...

[Rare White Ape]

A couple of other points:

Race bikes don’t have mirrors, so Esp couldn’t have seen Zarco there.

They were both off the throttle, which means they wouldn’t have heard each other’s engines.

And Zarco’s front tyre hit Espagaro on the right shoulder, which means that he wasn’t even into his peripheral vision range until the last second.

[Blerpa]

Racing accident.
The ruling is a disgrace for motorbike racing.

[JoeW]

Werd.

[Dicknose]

Lead rider knows someone is behind, misses apex and then tries to come back in - they have to expect someone is there. They also know they will suffer if they cut across someone.
Its not like the guy up the inside was out of control or doing some "late brake divebomb", that was the line he should take.
Yeah bad call.

[Freude am Fahren]

That was freaking scary.

Not one, but two flying bikes almost took out Vinales and Rossi.


https://youtu.be/JFaqXoD9j8w

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfiptEWX0AAo5b1?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfjX5CpXoAA1jSv?format=jpg&name=large

And Zarco's bike was full on ghost riding it until it just barely clipped the barrier, who knows what could have been.

[Blerpa]

Either he did it on purpose and in that case I ask for a disqualification or it happened as a mistake and in that case I ask for a disqualification because a 30 year old rider, surely not a rookie anymore, cannot do this kind of mistakes in the MotoGP class.
Either criminal or not up to standards.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah why the fuck did Zarco move over there? He appears to change his line after they were both on the brakes.

[JoeW]

Ermmm I see it completely the opposite. Looks like a racing incident to me and the announcers agreed. Zarco got hit from behind and dislodged from the bike due to the impact. Morbidelli went over the bars. Zarco was the lead rider at that point. Both riders at speed in a corner and trying to brake hard at the same time. Just a dangerous mix. Nothing more.

Zarco and Morbidelli were both in the middle of the track at the time of the impact. So not sure what you mean by “way out there”. Zarco had taken the inside line to make the pass and his “out, in, out” trajectory was normal for this move. Morbidelli was getting passed and on a slightly different trajectory. If anything morbidelli probably could have drifted wider to avoid instead of trying to stay as close as possible under braking.

Amazing how you can see it as a criminal offense and I see it as a racing incident. I guess it mirrors today’s politics in its polarity.

[Dicknose]

Its a weird setup, high speed left into braking area for a right. And especially for these bikes as it puts the braking area at the end of the left.
So people are starting to brake while in the middle of the track, some then aim left for the racing line, some aim straight to keep the inside.
Watch Miller there - he was always starting to brake in the middle and drifting left. When he seemed to have front tyre issues he was braking further back and it looked even worse.
So I dont think you can blame any of them for what happened, no one did anything stupid or deliberately dangerous.

Its actually not a good combo for the bikes, the speed of the motoGP bikes and how much braking they need makes this corner combo a mess.

Was scary to see this happen and just good luck that none of the other riders were hit. Rossi never saw it coming.

[JoeW]

Have they never raced there before?

It was good to see Dovi get a win. Last I watched Moto GP he was a new guy ;)

I am somewhat irritated as a "new" old watcher that many of the bikes aren't more clearly advertised as to what brand they are. Very frustrating.

[Rare White Ape]

Joe: Zarco was hard against the left of the circuit, while Morbidelli was about 1.5 meters to his right. As they hit the brakes, it was actually Morbidelli who was taking the correct line. Zarco moved right after he hit the brakes and cut across Morbidelli’s front tyre. The normal thing to do is to follow the track to the left before turning right.

Morbidelli had nowhere to go. He couldn’t brake any harder. It’s very hard to steer while on the brakes. And getting off the brakes would’ve ended with an impact anyway. There’s not a hope in hell that he could’ve moved wider, all he could do was straighten up in the half a second before impact.

[JoeW]

I can see that you believe this to be true which is why we disagree. I have ridden for over 45yrs and roadraced for a couple of those. So I have an educated opinion as well. So agree to disagree.

Watch the race. You can see about 20 different lines taken through that corner. He was ahead of Morbidelli before they hit the apex of the corner. The onus is then on morbidelli to decide how to approach the next turn. Zarco is ahead and has made his decision as the lead rider. The following rider now needs to react.

I guess I have the luxury of not hating any of the riders ahead of time as I haven’t watched in forever. The only names I recognize are Rossi, Dovi and Marquez (by reputation).

Seems like there is some pre hate for Zarco that is clouding some judgements.

[Rare White Ape]

I actually love Zarco. He was spectacular in 2018, really shook things up.

Here’s copied text from a post on Facebook:

𝗔𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗶𝗮𝗻 𝗠𝗼𝘁𝗼𝗚𝗣: 𝗭𝗮𝗿𝗰𝗼 𝗺𝗲𝗲𝘁𝘀 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀𝗶, '𝗜 𝗱𝗶𝗱𝗻'𝘁 𝗰𝘂𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗲'

Johann Zarco clears the air with Valentino Rossi after some strong words on Italian TV following huge Austrian MotoGP accident with Franco Morbidelli: 'I didn't cut the line. It's too crazy to do it and too dangerous'.

Johann Zarco said that he and Franco Morbidelli "hugged each other" in the Medical Centre.

"Then after I was sad because, during the interviews, bad things came out from the comments by Franco and Vale."

The comments in question were aired on Italian TV, where Morbidelli's (translated) words labelled the Frenchman as "a half-assassin… I hope this huge accident makes Zarco think. It was really dangerous for me, him, for Rossi and Vinales who saw a bike coming in their faces at 280km/h."

"Franco was already gone but it was good to speak with Vale, so we spent 10 minutes together and we could sincerely say what happened and our thoughts about it,"

"Fortunately, nobody is seriously hurt, so I just talked with Vale to make him understand I'm not a crazy guy. I delayed the zoom because we had to fix things."

I didn't do it on purpose.

I overtook Morbidelli in the straight and then in the moment when I had to brake, he touched me and he has been surprised.

"They [Rossi and Morbidelli] were thinking that I went super wide and it was not correct, but I didn't go so wide. I was not much more wide than usual. And I didn't do it on purpose.

"For sure I could expect that maybe Morbidelli would try to overtake, but I didn't cut the line to stop him. It's too crazy to do it and too dangerous and I'm conscious enough to manage it. So when I was braking there were no bad thoughts, but now it's clear between us.

"Now that we could speak together they understand what's happened and it's just because of all the speed, because we were close to each other - I think he got at the moment when I braked - this slipstream. We touched, then had no control and crashed."

It was not like a crazy overtake'
Zarco also insisted it hadn't been a risky move to make.

"It was not crazy because my engine was really much stronger than him in that moment and I overtook him when we were still in 5th gear. When we were maybe 300 metres before the braking point. So when I was braking it was more than one-second that I was in front of him. This was not like a crazy overtake.

"Just in the straight I went on the left, because there was no space on the right, so I was well in front. But in the moment I had to brake, maybe because I was not super leaning I had to go a bit on the right. And this, with the slipstream - I think it was very similar to me and Marc in Australia [2018] - but I was in front."

" Then the bad thing was the bike that could really destroy Valentino. Vale just felt something, stood up a little bit and saw the bike. He has been scared also."

"I was feeling bad for this situation. Franco got more hurt than me because he has some pain in the head. Me, luckily I have few burns on the arms the hips and the leg. A little bit of pain in my wrist but nothing broken."

What did Valentino say?
"He just told me that when he saw the crash, just with the few views that we have on the TV, that I went super wide and I did this during the braking just to stop Morbidelli,"

"I explained to him that I didn't go so wide and we have to check again, even myself, because I was not crazy wide. And I really did not want to stop Morbidelli, this was not the idea in the moment I was braking.

"So he wanted that this was clear, that I didn't do it on purpose, because in the first idea when he saw it – but then he knows the bikes are so fast at 300 km/h, heavy and at this speed you cannot change your line in the last moment like in Moto3.

"That's why he told me, 'just careful for it', and I said, 'Vale, I'm careful for it and that's why I tried to keep my line'. But in the way I was moving I could not go more on the left and that's maybe what surprised Franco. This was the discussion.

"I think yes [he understood me] because we were just both together. I think this was very, very important because my feeling is we spoke honestly"

[JoeW]

There ya go. It sounds like what I thought it was.

[JoeW]

Pretty amazing finish on this last race.

[Freude am Fahren]

Vinales be like


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLvlGVNInw4

Seriously, he knew he had brake problems, and slowed earlier, I can't believe he didn't park it.

Enjoy this season while it lasts. Marc will be back to amaze us and make the race for 2nd most interesting next year.

[Tom Servo]

I went nuts and cord-cut, then added MotoGP to my new Roku. What do I need to know to get up to speed?

[Rare White Ape]

Watch the Faster documentary by Mark Neale. Then watch it’s sequel, and the sequel to that.

That’ll get you up to speed with the rise of Rossi. It’s from 20 years ago but it’s backstory plots the trajectory of MotoGP as it exists today.

[JoeW]

Faster is good.

Did you see Long Way Up is coming soon? Trailer looks good.

[Tom Servo]

Are there any riders we universally hate? I'm up through Brno this season.

[Blerpa]

Are there any riders we universally hate? I'm up through Brno this season.

Marc Marquez.

[Tom Servo]

Aww man, he's on the Repsol bike, right? I like that bike :(

[Rare White Ape]

Marquez is divisive but not hated by all, I don’t think. I personally love him.

Jorge Lorenzo in the other hand…

[Alan P]

Rumours that MotoGP are about to announce one of the top riders in a lower class has tested positive for Covid-19. This will, apparently, be someone fighting for the title.

[Freude am Fahren]

Marquez is one of those guys you want to hate because he's so dominant, it takes some of the fun out of the sport. But you absolutely respect his talent. Schumacher, Hamilton, etc. But unlike those two, it's less to do with the machine, I think.

But he's out this season from Injury, so it's been a banger.

Just get on the app and watch all the races up until now. You won't be disappointed.

[Blerpa]

Rumours that MotoGP are about to announce one of the top riders in a lower class has tested positive for Covid-19. This will, apparently, be someone fighting for the title.

He's Jorge Martin, currently 2nd in the standings, trailing 8 points behind Luca Marini: the spaniard will not race in Misano.

[Dicknose]

Yamaha has the top 4 qualifiers.
Then a pair of Ducatis, pair of Suzukis, pair of Ducatis, pair of KTMs

Best Honda is 14th, Repsol Hondas are 19 and 21 (of 21)

Anyone who thinks Marc has the best bike is dreaming! Amazing how close it all is without him
And how obvious it is when a circuit suits a bike - KTMs and Ducati at RBR but now its a Yamaha track.

[Rare White Ape]

Good analysis.

And it's what HRC gets for throwing all its eggs in the same basket.

HRC should've learned its lesson back when Rossi left.

[Alan P]

Question is, if Marc had a bike that was easy to ride, would anyone at all be able to stop him? Imagine him on a Suzuki or a Yamaha.

[Alan P]

Good analysis.

And it's what HRC gets for throwing all its eggs in the same basket.

HRC should've learned its lesson back when Rossi left.
Indeed. Rossi left because Honda was constantly telling everyone it was the bike, not the Rider and he felt unjustly criticised. I'm not sure Honda is quite at that stage, but Puig certainly is.

[Rare White Ape]

Question is, if Marc had a bike that was easy to ride, would anyone at all be able to stop him? Imagine him on a Suzuki or a Yamaha.

I think the deeper issue is that the bike suits Marquez’s unique riding style to the point that it doesn’t suit when anyone else tries to ride it. Even 5-time champion Lorenzo couldn’t figure out front from back on that thing. If it was Lorenzo vs Marquez on a Yammy then I think Lorenzo would have handily beat him.

[Dicknose]

I dont think Lorenzo's heart (or head) was in it at the end.

I do agree you can have a bike that is amazing in the right hands but doesnt suit most riders. Stoner managed some amazing stuff with the Ducati that it seemed most others couldnt.
i think Marc would be good on most things. But Im definitely not in the "must prove it with another manufacturer to be great". Does it diminish Rossi or Lorenzo that they could master the Ducati?

[Rare White Ape]

Nope!

And I think Marquez would be able to make the Yamaha work for him, but he might even be better on a KTM or Aprilia!

It would be easier for the above to happen than it would be for his own brother (or anyone else at this point) to get the Hoooonda working properly.

[Dicknose]

Dani Pedrosa wasnt having too much trouble with it (although people would say it was developed for him over Hayden way back when)
Its not a bad bike, I just dont think its improved as much in the last 2-3 years so much as Suzuki and KTM.
Ducati and Yamaha have always had their strengths and weaknesses - while Honda was a bit of an allrounder. But that doesnt help when you lose to Yamaha on cornering tracks and then lose to Ducati at power tracks!

[Dicknose]

Another unusual race!
And I’d swear they are rigging the championship to have 6 people all in with a chance come the last race.
Top 4 within 4 points, top 8 within a race win (25) and 2 more including Rossi within 30 pts.

[Rare White Ape]

I just finished watching it. I’ve honestly got no fuckin idea who’s going to take the championship.

At this point I’d make a bet on Mir or Quatararo though…

[XHawkeye]

Moto3 crash (https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/1314607831199301632) <--- Open for video

[JoeW]

Holy shit I’m glad I picked this season to start watching motogp again. This last race was great. That track was so cool. And good for Marquez nearly taking his 1st win.

[Dicknose]

There has been 8 different winners - but the championship leader is NOT one of them!
This could knock out Nicky Hayden's effort of a title with only 2 wins.

[JoeW]

Every race has been a real joy to watch. This season has really had it all. I had never seen this Aragon track before and damn does it look fun.

They camera placements for MotoGp even make the shared F1 tracks look different simply because they film from completely different angles and locations.

[Dicknose]

Well another race, mostly quiet till the last lap!!
And a new world champ, who has won a race. Unless he wins the last round, Mir will push Hayden back on the list of "title with least race wins"

[Rare White Ape]

The commentators at the previous round mentioned someone who won a minor-class championship with zero wins in the 60s, I think it was.

[Dicknose]

For MotoGP/500cc its 2 wins, happened a few times in the first few seasons (a lot less races) but only once since then - 2006.
So that record is broken or equalled.
Also "least career wins by world champ" is currently 3 (from over 200 race starts!), so that is also broken but could be unbroken if Mir win a few more races in his career.

[Rare White Ape]

Big fire in the pit buildings this weekend at the circuit where the Argentine GP is held. The 2021 race has already been postponed to November, so shouldn’t affect that in any way.

Thankfully no significant damage to the adjacent Fangio Museum. Workers moved a lot of the most significant pieces from there as a precaution.

Investigations into the cause of the fire are ongoing.

[Dicknose]

And it starts again...

Surprised Marquez is still out. I know he has been on a street bike doing testing but its not a good sign if he isnt ready for the first round. With this much time in recovery it could be months more.

Any forecasts on champion?

Im putting my heart out there - Jack Miller.
Was consistent last year but had some bad luck with the bike. He seems to have improved his 2nd half of the race, prev years he would often just slide from top 3 to 10th.
Not sure if lightning can strike twice for Mir.

One thing I do know - Im excited!

[JoeW]

I would also love to see Miller pull it out.
If this season is as entertaining as last then we are all winners ;)

[Rare White Ape]

Oh yeah last season was nuts. Take the top guy out and watch the plebs stab each other in the neck for the scraps!

[Blerpa]

I made the mistake of watching the Moto 3 race. Ugh, usual nascar on motorbikes' kid bore.
I bet on Bagnaia and Morbidelli (Yamaha is a fool for not giving him an official bike. Shameful, really. Meanwhile Vinales stays in MotoGP for no reason ever) doing a great season... Rossi? No idea anymore.

[Dicknose]

Ducati hole shot - wow.
And I feel a bit sorry for Mir, but a mistake under pressure and it was no contest.

[Blerpa]

Meanwhile Vinales proved me wrong... but let's see him going ahead to another "future champion" season disappointing leitmotiv.

[JoeW]

Zarco got a nice equipment upgrade this year and did well. Poor Miller dropped like a stone there.

Poor Mir looked like he was standing still coming down towards the finish line. Went from 2nd to 4th just like that.

Good race...let’s see some more :)

[JoeW]

Another beauty this week. Those Ducs can really scoot down the straight.

[JoeW]

Welcome back to Marc Marquez. Not a bad result for being out for so long.

Wtf is up with Miller? His crash was so odd...mid corner and the rear just went away. Every other crash in the race was a low side losing the front and Miller has the rear just go off. Very odd.

Looked like no one wanted to win this one as everyone kept crashing.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0VT3pTWUAA3_Ij.jpg

Repsol Honda Team riders set for 1000th Grand Prix start

https://motogp.hondaracingcorporation.com/report/repsol-honda-team-riders-set-for-1000th-grand-prix-start/

[Dicknose]

They have been a dominant force in MotoGP.

[JoeW]

Nice race in Jerez :)

[Dicknose]

Wow - what a race!!
Some people say mixed weather races are a lottery, but I think they are great. Often amazing differences in laptimes and strategy. Do you swap a 2nd time back to slicks on a drying track? Normally the bikes dont have that much strategy, pick your tyres pre-race and thats it. But drying track, different wet tyres and some going off badly with the heat - wow!
Also the skill set is different, riding in mixed conditions is different from dry and wet. Marquez is usually the master of these and he was clearly the quickest but twice managed to crash. Oph!
Long lap penalties - I do think they are better, more interesting and fairer that pit lane ride thru. Jack actually got a double and still won.
Interesting to see Quartararo penalty, the new system of bike swap has set positions and he pulled up in his teammates spot. He did run around and jump on the correct bike, but was rightly pinged for not stopping in his spot. While it had no affect on the race, it easily could have affected his teammate if they were closer. Seems teams might need to practice swaps a bit more.

And well done Jack. 4 year wait then two in a row.

[JoeW]

Yeah I was loving that race. I feel bad for Marquez…that could have been his “I’m back” moment but it will have to wait.

I don’t think any of them expected to have to run so many dry laps in the hot sun on those wet tires. Those things turn to mush, and then with only 5-7 laps to go it’s just not worth the risk of switching bikes again.

Good for Miller. I’m rooting for him. Too bad he made some mistakes in the first few races or he’d be in the lead points.

[Dicknose]

Bikes again tonight...
qualifying was odd, Rossi straight into top 10, but Miller had to do Q1. He got thru then set the 2nd fastest time, just a few hundredths off pole. Then crashed! He hadnt been near the top of the times in the FP, effectively went from 11th to 2nd.
Yamaha look very strong, Quartararo looks unbeatable!

Race is a bit earlier than usual, with Moto2 after MotoGP. Means a nice 9pm here (instead of 10 or 11). Good when I have an early start and big day on Monday. Although I might just watch Moto2 as well.

[Rare White Ape]

Quartararo given additional three second penalty for incident involving leathers. He really should have been black flagged on the very same lap that the open zip became apparent.

Here’s a link so you know what I’m talking about.

https://www.mcnews.com.au/2021-motogp-catalunya-quartararo-penalty-doubled/?fbclid=IwAR0ojhfY8Ls0qUKRUBhtbWJsyVWBRBbZRcpk1z-N4sjCe8Tevq-mogtEXFE

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, that was so odd. I couldn't believe he just continued (and was allowed).

In the end I think a 3sec penalty isn't enough. If it happens to someone, they'll think, I can stop and fix it and lose 15-20 seconds, or I can take the 3 sec. penalty. Should have been a black flag immediately, and in the absence of that, should have been 30 sec. penalty.

Also, I didn't get his 3 sec. penalty for the short cut. After going deep, didn't he follow the long lap route? Isn't that enough.

[JoeW]

I think because he went wide but cut across a runoff area.

The leather issue has probably never cropped up before that I know of. But it’s akin to running with a boot or glove off. Black flag immediately as far as I’m concerned.

1 more lap and that race would have gotten really juicy :)

[Dicknose]

Also, I didn't get his 3 sec. penalty for the short cut. After going deep, didn't he follow the long lap route? Isn't that enough.
It was a chicane, he ran very wide on he first left, then went completely off track to cut the right hander.
He lost a place when he ran wide, but certainly gained a big advantage over Miller by cutting the corner to stay just ahead of him.

[Dicknose]

I was surprised by Marquez, he has looked good for a few laps but hasnt been consistent either with pace or staying on the bike.
I guess a track where he has won the last 10 times was always going to be good to him, that and it being an easier direction on his arm.
But still - wow, impressive.
Now lets see if this turns into more podiums and wins - can he claw his way back into the championship?

[Fiat500]

Sachsenring, featuring Marc Márquez as Himself.

[JoeW]

That Dutch track is tricky as fuck.

[Rare White Ape]

It's a lesson on how to make a flat paddock interesting. Tilke should take note.

But it was also much, much better 20 years ago.

[JoeW]

Absolutely. Assen was fun to watch back in the day.

[Rare White Ape]

Rossi has announced his retirement at the end of this year.

It’s truly the end of an era.

[Dicknose]

Rossi has been the dominate figure for so many years. Until the last few years he was the dominant force in wins and championships. For the whole time he has been the dominant person in terms of fans and popularity - there would be few sports where someone has been that popular.
A few things have soured his reputation but its hard to go past his record and his charm. As much as Ive admired people like Doohan and Stoner, they were extremely dull personalities. Rossi brought back a joy that hadn't been seen for probably 2 decades.
Sad to see him go but the show can't go on forever.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8WxB2JXoAAWGba.jpg:large

Jorge Martin set a new lap record this weekend for MotoGP, just 2+ seconds off the ELMS LMP2 pole time!

[JoeW]

It’s insane how fast F1 cars are around these tracks.

[Freude am Fahren]

Ugh, damn DVR ran stopped recording with more than a dozen laps left.

And NBC does not have the show available for replay on their apps.

I guess I'll be getting VideoPass again next year...

[Dicknose]

Yeah a 30 min stoppage will do that.
Luckily we have it on free to air tv, although its only the main race, no other classes or qualifying.

Interesting that top 5 was 5 different manufacturers - that's rare.

[JoeW]

Kind of a boring race all in all. Miller spiked himself again. I keep waiting for Marc to come back to form but I think that ship has sailed.

[Rare White Ape]

Yamaha has pulled Meverick Vinales from the next round of MotoGP due to “unexplained irregular operation of the motorcycle” with the potential to cause engine damage on the last few laps of the Styrian Grand Prix, which they found after analysis of the ECU telemetry.

Witnesses (photographers I think) at the track reported that they heard the engine being continuously revved to the limiter on a number of occasions.

Basically Vinales has the shits and was rev-bombing it to try and break it, so the team is suspending him for one race.

[Dicknose]

Yeah sounds like a dummy spit but one that was easily noticed by the team.
Not a good look for either him or the team, but maybe being a more public punishment will make him think twice.

[Blerpa]

Or... he was pissed off because when he came in the pits he told the team the bike was perfect and to not touch anything, BUT... they went on, changed the clutch and started filchering with the telemetry.
I put my blame equally on him and one of the worst teams in recent MotoGP history.

Yamaha has ruined Rossi late career not listening to him and stubbornly pushing the development in Vinales' direction when Rossi asked his own changes (which when the japanese finally caved in brought immediatly better outcomes), it has ruined last year vicechampion's season making him race with a 2 YEAR old customer bike which is shameful and suicidal for a brand that wants to win no matter what it takes (but obviously that would have shown already how overrated both Vinales and Quartararo are and bad publicity for the well paid official pair), and now it has half ruined Vinales admitedly already dwindling career.
Their only redeeming value is that they have a decent pilot which is going to win a championship mostly out of luck, plain consistency and real lack of opponents.
Basically in 1 season time they are probably going to find themselves in Honda pit of despair, which even ex-wonder man can't manage to solve (ehi, dude, fancied winning championships relying on electronics saving your crazy mad arse? Think again, DUDE - also, cannot wait when in the future one of the upcoming Moto2 riders will clash his bike fairings and push him in the dirt. Drama tears and caliente feels are up and coming for Puig sissy boy).
But then, again... who's surprised about these teams recent problems? Japanese, com'on.

Suzuki? Shambles. No wonder Brivio said his goodbyes and never looked back even once.
KTM? Internal politics and not a clear direction for the future.
Ducati? Oh, lol, we really want to go there? That's the epitome of internal politics and "Our bike is always worthy more of any rider" aloof attitude - Dall'Igna makes Horner and Ron Dennis look like samaritans, in comparison, the beardy cunt.
Aprilia? Just forget about Dovizioso and get a real champion like... Vinales? WAT?

MotoGP is in its nadir and dreadfully so.
There is World Superbike... if it wouldn't be, as always and forever, sunday club and plebs affairs.

[Rare White Ape]

Looks like it was written by an Italian :p

[Rare White Ape]

BTW I agree with your whole post. You bring insight that I haven’t seen in the regular English-speaking media that takes up our airwaves.

[Blerpa]

Honestly tho... the average quality of MotoGP rider in general is bad, to me.
Rossi is old and his time in MotoGP has ended.
Vinales has not delivered on the eternal promise of being a future champion.
Quartararo? Still personally believing he is a Criville or an Hayden more than a Marquez or a Rossi, heck not even Lorenzo or Stoner material.
Morbidelli has next season to shine or lose it all.
Dovizioso was treated like shit by Ducati (as usual per the Borgo Panigale house) but his sabbatical year and his "Uhm, I would race, but no, I won't" attitude with Aprilia is going to bite him back especially since he has not lowered his economical demands at all.
Pedrosa has seen the writing on the wall and left with dignity, he is doing good at developing and was brilliant in his comeback (one of the rare riders that impressed me this season. More time passes more I think he was always too underrated, even by my own self).
Petrucci was badly shown the door at KTM.
The Suzuki pair? They crumbled like snow at spring, although the bike is quite not up to par (but the new lowering gimmick seems to have helped in last race). Bagnaia and Miller? They spend most of the time being embarassed by a not stellar Zarco - and soon they will suffer the Ducati curse.
On the Honda riders I truly dunno what to say? The bike is shit, but they struggle no matter what and none of them is a real talent beside Marquez.
Oliveira? He actually tries, kudos to this guy.
The young ones need still a lot of experience and would do better if they wouldn't be on lame customer bikes (though last year Morbido has shown that talent can help).

So, teams are in dire straits - and MotoGP fame and following is vanishing, but riders are a bit at fault too.

[Rare White Ape]

Yep. MotoGP has had an incredible lineage of amazing talent stretching back to the 70s, and with the departure of Rossi and the woes of Marquez, they no longer have the Next Great Rider ready to dominate. I don’t follow the lower classes so I don’t know who’s coming from Moto2 or 3, but in general it’s not looking good for the near future.

[JoeW]

I will say that I see more stupid crashes…mid corner low sides while riding by one self…in the last few years of watching than I ever saw watching the old 2 stroke 500 riders of the 80’s and 90’s. And those old bikes were a fucking handful compared to today.

Either those old guys were legends (yes) or the new batch are mediocre (yes).

[Rare White Ape]

Both yes :D

But also the bikes are very reliant on edge grip these days, where 2mm of tyre is make or break. Riders need to be so precise. It's a wonder that Rossi has managed to stay off the back row of the grid at all since 2007.

[Blerpa]

LOL. No spoilers.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah that was a classic.

[JoeW]

My nbcsn coverage was fucked. NASCAR coverage went way long. Then they cut to the GP with everyone sitting on the grid. Went to commercial and can back to golf coverage. So I have no idea where the fucking MotoGp race went.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, NBCSN can get fucked. Went to their app, and there's no replay, but a Highlight that spoiled the result in the title :rolleyes:

[Rare White Ape]

You may need to find… alternative means of consuming this media.

[Kchrpm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz260KqjDHQ

[JoeW]

Looks like my YouTubeTV correctly recorded it.

Marquez tossing another race away. Wtf happened to this guy?

[Dicknose]

Was an interesting race!

[Alan P]

Looks like my YouTubeTV correctly recorded it.

Marquez tossing another race away. Wtf happened to this guy?

He’s still struggling with a weak shoulder he says. This circuit is bad for that with so many fast right handers.

[Dicknose]

Its taking a long while for him to recover, Im guessing a few falls along the way are not helping.
I think he has his confidence back. And a few new faces have improved.
My money is on Marquez winning races again and maybe a championship - but I dont think he will dominate like he did.

[JoeW]

Aragon seems like it was made specifically for bike racing. The track has just about everything you could want. I love watching them race there.

[Rare White Ape]

It’s had some good battles. But oddly enough it doesn’t strike me as being among my favourite circuits. I dunno why.

[Kchrpm]

Watched the highlights while multitasking, the last lap grabbed my attention. Great stuff.

[Kchrpm]

https://the-race.com/motogp/motogp-riders-ultimatum-for-any-future-cota-races/

MotoGP riders say that COTA's track problems are so bad, they won't come back unless it is resurfaced from turns 2 through 10.

[Rare White Ape]

I hope they bulldoze the entire track and design a new layout.

[Dicknose]

It is just so bumpy, Its scary watching how much the bikes bounce coming thru some parts.
So its more than just a simple resurface, it might need new base as well in some spots.

[Dicknose]

Oh so MotoGP and Moto2 both had major championship contenders crash out. Pressure!

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEGE2k2WQAA08d1.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEGE2mmX0AcXcQq.jpg:large

[Dicknose]

Moto2 got a new champ - Remy Gardner, son of former 500cc champ Wayne.

Was nice to see a good farewell for Rossi. Ok its probably 5 years late, but he has been both a dominant competitor and personality for the sport. Glad to see his last race was actually competitive. Scary to think how many of the riders with him were not born when he started in the GP series. Thanks for the memories.