Xbox Series X

[Rare White Ape]

The full spec sheet for Xbox Series X was released earlier this week and I'm surprised there's no thread, so here's a post that is very similar to my PS5 specs post which I just posted in another post (http://gtxforums.net/showthread.php?1930-PlayStation-5&p=147486#post147486).

Screenshot yoinked from here: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs

https://i.imgur.com/bLCjqGH.png

Big things to note:

CPU is AMD Zen 2, same as Playstation 5, but with slightly higher clock speed.

GPU is AMD RDNA 2 with far more compute units (CUs) than PS5 but much lower clock speed. Full ray tracing support. The GPU will also support variable rate shading, which prioritises graphical performance to different areas of the screen to boost framerate, and gives low priority to lower contrast areas (for example, a dark shadowy portion of an image can be given less resources because your eye is less able to notice details in dark areas).

RAM is up to 16GB but asymmetrical, to be used for different tasks. For example, system overhead and OS will run on lower-speed bandwidth, etc.

Storage is an internal 1TB NVMe SSD, with expandable storage with cute (but potent) little memory cards, also 1TB NVMe at first, with larger sizes coming down the track a bit later in the console cycle. They will be plug-and-play, so that you can take some of your game library to another Xbox and pick up where you left off.

Game resume will now be fully supported on Xbox, with the ability to save multiple states from RAM directly to SSD, and the ability to switch between instances of back-compat Xbox One titles in only 6 seconds - longer for Series X games. You can literally pause one game, and then load another game, and then go back to the first game exactly where it was paused.

The controller now features a share button similar to PS4, and inside there will be a new input lag reduction system to reduce, you know... input lag. This system will be backwards-compatible with existing Xbox One controllers via a firmware update, which can then be used on Series X systems and Windows 10 PCs. Handy, because Microsoft is going all-in with HDMI 2.1 120Hz support.

Backwards compatibility will typically be much more robust than the PS5 solution. Games from all previous Xbox generations will be supported from the get-go, and Xbox One games will be played with enhancements (such as 4K and high framerate) without any input needed from the developers. Although it is presumed that a developer can choose to add their own enhancements if they wish. It took only two weeks to get a demo for Gears 5 up and running, which right now uses settings equivalent to the highest settings on PC, and they plan to implement 120Hz support for multiplayer mode. Imagine Forza Horison 4 at 120fps in 4K on a console :eek:

[dodint]

As a non-X-box user the naming convention completely loses me.

"PlayStation 5" Oh, see, easy.

[Freude am Fahren]

That was my first thought too.

Was/Is the One X vs One S vs One more like a PS4 Pro vs PS4 Slim vs PS4??

Seriously, what is so wrong with numbering things in order? Thank You, Sony.

[Jason]

PS4 = Xbox One
PS4 Slim = Xbox One S
PS4 Pro = Xbox One X

PS5 = Xbox Series X

Roughly speaking

[Rare White Ape]

As a non-X-box user the naming convention completely loses me.

"PlayStation 5" Oh, see, easy.

I have an Xbox, and I don’t use it either :D

The “Series X” naming convention might start to make sense in coming years if the suspected strategy where they ditch discrete generations and all Xboxes play all Xbox games kinda like phones do comes into effect.

Or it could further confuse the tits off everyone.

[Yw-slayer]

Anyway - buy a PC?

[Rare White Ape]

Nonsense!

Apple all the way!

[Yw-slayer]

:anger:

[GreatScawt]

https://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/304/old.jpg

[Rare White Ape]

Big trailer dump from Microsoft. There are a bunch more on the Xbox YT channel. Watch it all in 4K fullscreen if you have the capability.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCTPu1aUsTE

At this stage they all look like games that are absolutely capable of being built for current gen, just without the increased visual fidelity and creature comforts like instant loading, etc, as-is typical of the first batches of games from any new console release. It will be some years before we really get to see the graphical capabilities of this and the PS5.

It's telling that most of them will be cross-gen, and Jason Ronald - head honcho of XBox hardware development (bald guy with epic beard) while being interviewed by Eurogamer was travelling dangerously close to "Knack needs PS4" territory. But those clean 4K visuals are drool-worthy.

[Kchrpm]

As a non-X-box user the naming convention completely loses me.

"PlayStation 5" Oh, see, easy.

Ever since they decided that XBox 2 vs PlayStation 3 was going to make them sound inferior and went for XBox 360 instead, the naming has been wackadoo.

[Tom Servo]

And yet they were also willing to jump straight from Windows 8 to Windows 10.

[Phil_SS]

Somewhere in there is Windows XP.

Ofcourse nothing is worse than the MAC operating system names. How do I know that Cheetah is better than Panther or Puma......

[Yw-slayer]

It's easy. Just remember that Hippos are the best. They are smooth, fast, and powerful.

[dodint]

And yet they were also willing to jump straight from Windows 8 to Windows 10.

You probably know, but my understanding of that is the Windows_9X convention ran the risk of being confused with Windows 95/98 by older applications and operating systems so they went from 8.1 to 10.

[Tom Servo]

I hadn't heard that, but it does make sense. Still, if they're going to go that route, I think Windows X Series X-Games X would have been a better choice.

[Cam]

I got, and still get, great value and enjoyment from my Xboxes. However, I probably will never buy another console, for a few reasons. Most of the games I play are available for PC. Now that I have a newish PC, I will probably become a PC gamer. Both my brothers are PC gamers. I want to game with my bros.

[Rare White Ape]

Oh my fucking word, this is tasty...

That grappling hook!

I cracked a big smile while watching.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xaW_vJC4wg

[Kchrpm]

The Forza "trailer" was disappointing, it's clear that game won't be done for a long time.

[Blerpa]

Pretty disappointed by the Halo Infinite video.
Lightining, effects and textures make it look like a game from 5 years ago.
Also, as usual with the Halo games I've played, you can shoot in zoom mode only with the sniper rifle. Meh. Pathetic and obsolete.
I hope it is just a beta show and they are really behind with the graphic implementations: even Destiny 2 puts this video to shame.

Forza will be coming next year, so unfortunately we will have to wait a lot, still.

[Rare White Ape]

And Halo looks like it has gameplay from ten years ago!

I watched it again and I want to rub it all over my tits.

Textures and lighting be dammed. This is proper Halo again.

[Phil_SS]

Pretty disappointed by the Halo Infinite video.
Lightining, effects and textures make it look like a game from 5 years ago.
Also, as usual with the Halo games I've played, you can shoot in zoom mode only with the sniper rifle. Meh. Pathetic and obsolete.
I hope it is just a beta show and they are really behind with the graphic implementations: even Destiny 2 puts this video to shame.


Totally agree, except for one thing. It looked really bad. The shooting from the hip thing just looked so wrong in this day and age. Graphically, it did not look like a game with modern textures and lighting. Look very slow from a movement standpoint, like MC has concrete boots.

One Thing: I totally understand player's issues with the game play loop in D2, but there is no doubt it is one of, if not the best looking and best fundamental gameplay console game out there. The video for Halo Infinite didn't even come close in comparison.

[Freude am Fahren]

I will say, I prefer the slower movement of Halo to the chaos of the battlefield/COD battles.

[Rare White Ape]

Here's a video that Digital Foundry put out covering the 'bland' looking Halo gameplay. They say it's a poor art choice rather than bad tech.

I couldn't really give a rat's poo about it, but here I am posting this in its defense anyway :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnQd6W9BxLg

[Blerpa]

I totally understand player's issues with the game play loop in D2, but there is no doubt it is one of, if not the best looking and best fundamental gameplay console game out there. The video for Halo Infinite didn't even come close in comparison.

It is a real shame that the plot of the game and the DLCs (Forsaken aside) is so shitty and the structure so lame: the graphics and controls are top notch, as well as the potential in the setting (goddamn, make a movie out of it or a TV series: the first live action trailer of Destiny 1 with Led Zeppelin blasting through were awesome!).
And I only play the single player part of Destiny 2, I don't give a damn about multi.

[Kchrpm]

Interesting twist to the Halo Infinite proposition: multiplayer will be free-to-play.

[Rare White Ape]

Xbox Series S confirmed?

https://twitter.com/zakk_exe/status/1292602854990065670

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfA_awfWoAA4wnS?format=jpg&name=large

Plus, as the comments on the tweet have mentioned, it still uses batteries. PAH!

[Rare White Ape]

https://youtu.be/qZpQoeHobFQ

[Kchrpm]

Halo Infinite delayed to 2021. The XSX now has zero system exclusives at launch. You're only buying a system at launch to get prettier versions of XBone games.

[Rare White Ape]

What if you already own a PC.......................?

[Yw-slayer]

What if you already own a PC.......................?

Then /glorious

[Kchrpm]

What if you already own a PC.......................?
The cheapest gaming system is the one you already own :up:

[Blerpa]

So, both next gen consoles have a lacklustre launch list... history repeat itself, it seems.

[Jason]

To be fair, everything is lackluster/disappointing to you :lol:

[Blerpa]

To be fair, everything is lackluster/disappointing to you :lol:

Nah, Forza Horizon 4 is still amazing, even with all the troubling bugs and such.
The Witcher 3 is excellent, Destiny 2, at least visually, is a joy to behold and it's incredible it is an online shooter and Minecraft... well, it rocks as it has rocked since years. Doom (2016) was pretty good, Half Life 2 plot still captures you to this day and Wolfenstein II the New Colossus is still one of the best single player FPSes I've played in the last ten years.
Oh, and RiME? I cried when I ended that game.
There there.

[Yw-slayer]

Minecraft lol

[Rare White Ape]

So, both next gen consoles have a lacklustre launch list... history repeat itself, it seems.

I'm bracing myself for the next round of angry internet people having a big complain.

[Blerpa]

Why angry? I stated an opinion.
So far there's only GT and Forza as interesting games in those lineups, to me, maybe the Skyrim like fantasy game.
And that's it.
There is a point if I left console gaming after PS2 and I only own an Xbox One S just as a 4K bd player and a Forza Horizon 4 backup machine in case my gaming PC cannot be used.

[Rare White Ape]

I wasn’t referring to you, I’m talking about the hordes of people on the internet ready to be angry about the dumbest shit, like they were when Nintendo’s Switch came out and it had “no games to play” despite Breath of the Wild being a launch title and one of the greatest games of all time.

[Rare White Ape]

It's fiiiiiinally official.

No disc drive
60% smaller than Series X
Native 1440p/120FPS games
...with upscaling to 4K
Raytracing
512GB SSD with seamless game switching

Confirmed at $299 USD for November 10th.
Unconfirmed that X will be out on the same day at $499.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhX82n1UYAATqsI?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Blerpa]

1440p? Are you sure? In here the news are about 1080p/60 and upscaled 4K/30.
EDIT: yep, got the latest news. Woah, I didn't expect Quad HD 120fps!

[Rare White Ape]

I presume it will be using the same video output chip as the X, so it’ll support HDMI 2.1 features, including 4K/120 and variable refresh rate. Good for Halo multiplayer and low-spec esports games like PUBG and CS:GO.

And the design is cute as a button. I almost want one, except I already have a much more capable PC that plays literally every game that will come out on these machines.

[Kchrpm]

I'm still trying to decide between a PS5 and XSX, since I don't have a working Windows PC at all let alone one ready for a gaming upgrade.

[Yw-slayer]

Gaming PC is always the answer.

[Kchrpm]

To "what is the most expensive and complex option", yes.

For example, I just went on NewEgg to try to build a PC to the recommended specs for the Avengers game, and it was $1400.

[Rare White Ape]

Wait a month for the RTX 3000 series to be released, and that same PC will either cost half as much, or be equipped with a GPU that far exceeds the required specs for the same price.

Also out of curiosity I looked at the minimum specs and found this:


Marvel's Avengers PC recommended specs
OS: Windows 10 64-bit
CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.4 GHz or AMD Ryzen 51600 3.2 GHz
RAM: 16GB memory
GPU: NVIDIA GTX 1060 6GB or AMD Radeon RX 480 8GB
DirectX 12
HDD: 110GB free space

I did the same as you, except I swapped the i7 for the newest i5 10400 and got a shopping cart worth $818 USD.

If you aren't fussy you can get stuff pretty cheaply. For example, when I looked at the processor it suggested an ITX motherboard to pair up with it. Going along those lines I looked at ITX cases, and one of the best sellers is the Fractal Node 202 that comes with a built-in power supply for $139.

Of course you could go way higher in price if you buy the fancy stuff. That power supply might be pretty shit, but a really good Corsair SF450 will cost over $110 all by itself.

[Rare White Ape]

But in all honesty, if I had NO gaming devices right now and wanted something this year, I think the Series S might be the best choice. The only reason I would err is because of racing sims.

Benefits:

- It's a reasonably priced next-gen console
- Xbox Game Pass is truly good value
- Instant access to tons of current and future games
- Upscaled 4K visuals are not bad on a 4K TV
- Looks cute

Drawbacks:

- No disc drive if you want physical games
- As above, but for your current games collection back to the OG Xbox via backwards compatibility
- Won't deliver native 4K or 8K
- Questionable graphical quality as the generation advances past the current benchmark

It's the console I would be recommending to people until Sony starts to wind up and hit us with some great games.

[Rare White Ape]

News just to hand (it's getting saucy now)

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-09-09-xbox-series-x-costs-gbp449-in-the-uk

Both consoles November 10th

Series S £249
Series X £449

And, Microsoft will let you buy them on a payment plan (it's not really good value):


You can get an Xbox Series X or Xbox Series S, plus 24 months of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, for £28.99 a month for 24 months or £20.99 a month for 24 months respectively, via Xbox All Access. In the UK this is exclusive to GAME and Smyths Toys, who act as the credit intermediaries.

Edit: actually that is reasonably good value when you factor in the cost of Game Pass over 24 months.

[Rare White Ape]

MORE

(Sorry)

I'm now just reading that EA Play is going to be integrated into Xbox Game Pass for all available platforms at no extra cost.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118942799_10157816814719217_8924032247659159888_n. jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=H6V0dDF4rV8AX9pgpvW&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=58eee8a10fc2b33fb696dc961085cea3&oe=5F7E0289

[Kchrpm]

Wait, EA Play is going to be integrated into GamePass? Interesting...

[Rare White Ape]

Yankee pricing:
Big one $499
Small one $299

Straya pricing:
Big $749
Smol $499

[Rare White Ape]

Wait, EA Play is going to be integrated into GamePass? Interesting...

Yep. I looked up exactly what EA Play is and there’s two tiers; regular and pro.

I’m going to guess that a pro sub will still cost extra.

And being a 3rd-party publisher it means their Series [x] titles will be subject to availability.

Here’s a link to a page full of words related to the subject from uncle Phil.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/09/09/xbox-series-x-and-xbox-series-s-launching-november-10/?ocid=Platform_soc_omc_xbo_tw_Photo_lrn_9.9.1&fbclid=IwAR1Vi08ihwpHQARB8DWS6MjAL-EFQtXpJGh8w0Nt5sz7mMcf88STav9VLdI

[Kchrpm]

Going back briefly to the Avengers PC build discussion, based on a Digital Foundry video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcCRbI8uCeM), it seems the recommended specs given are actually for solid 60 fps performance at 1080p, not 4K. This lead me to just Google how much it would cost to build an XBox Series X equivalent PC, which TechRadar says will cost about $1800 (https://www.techradar.com/news/how-to-build-a-gaming-pc-powerful-enough-to-take-on-the-playstation-5-and-xbox-series-x). The recent 3080 reveal will change some of it, but apparently the CPU itself is $300.

My biggest problem with the XSX is that Microsoft has no VR support/plan. The thought of my 4KTV gaming system and my VR sim racing system being the same $500 box is a big draw to me, but for now the PS5 is the only thing going in that direction.

But having the VR on a separate console means I can have the whole setup sitting by itself in an extra room, rather than needing something that I can move around in/near the living room. Hmmm....

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah the question of PC price is a curly one right now. The 2080 Super is now worth less than 1/3 of what it used to cost a month ago, so there's a big saving right away. A brand new 3070 will do the same job for $500 come October.

And I believe you could save money on the CPU by just going with a Ryzen 5 or an i5. It's 2/3 the price if you get an overclockable one. You don't strictly need the bigger CPUs for gaming but they do help.

But given that the lowest-end of the new Nvidia GPUs is worth the same as a whole XBSX then your own value-for-money proposition will need some deep thought. But bear in mind you don't need huge horsepower to play most racing sims. You could do it on an old Ryzen 5 with a GTX 1660 Super if you are smart about it and expect realistic concessions to be made with graphics settings.

For me I went to near-money-no-object proportions and spent $2000 AUD on an i5/RTX 2070 system 18 months ago with the goal being to play racing sims in VR. I haven't bought the VR headset yet (soon...) but I did also seriously upgrade my racing peripherals over Christmas. It's a $4000 outlay when you tally it all up, with another $650 on top for the VR yet to come.

[Phil_SS]

Can a decent PC allow me to play games on a 60” TV?

[drew]

Is the TV 1k or 4k? That's all that matters. Any PC that does a good job at 1k, will do fine on a 1k/HD TV.

The only catch to a TV is the Chroma settings, in order to get the refresh/etc so it doesn't look like hammered shit, you should have 4:4:4 ratio, or be able to set it to that.

You could get the ROG 65" gaming monitor. 4k, 240hz, $4500, come on man!

Phil, you you are in fact serious, I may have an offer for you :D

[Rare White Ape]

A few things: yes a PC will play on a TV just fine as long as it has an HDMI output. Just set the desktop resolution to match your screen native res.

But note that you are limiting yourself in terms of frame rate or resolution unless you own one of the latest greatest 2020 model TVs that can take a 4K/120Hz signal.

Secondly, Drew the chroma settings don’t really affect much; they’re just a way to store HDR video data on a disc or for streaming in a smaller file size by removing some image information that is almost imperceptible to the human eye. But for video that’s generated by the PC (gameplay) then the full 4:4:4 chroma setting can be used as long as the TV can accept that signal.

You’re probably thinking of RGB range, which should be set to the full setting for both the TV and whatever is connected to it.

[Kchrpm]

As Drew said, it's a question of if you have/want HD or 4K, there's a significant difference in the hardware necessary to run complicated games well between those two resolutions. Being locked into a maximum of only 60 fps doesn't bother me, potentially because I have no experience with 120 fps video/gaming.

[Kchrpm]

Microsoft has confirmed that pre-orders will start at 11 am Eastern US on September 22nd. I....will probably be ready.

[Rare White Ape]

Nice :up:

Which one are you aiming for?

[Kchrpm]

The X. I want to get the 4K versions of current gen games that came out for the One X before the next gen stuff comes out.

[Yw-slayer]

A few things: yes a PC will play on a TV just fine as long as it has an HDMI output. Just set the desktop resolution to match your screen native res.

But note that you are limiting yourself in terms of frame rate or resolution unless you own one of the latest greatest 2020 model TVs that can take a 4K/120Hz signal.

Secondly, Drew the chroma settings don’t really affect much; they’re just a way to store HDR video data on a disc or for streaming in a smaller file size by removing some image information that is almost imperceptible to the human eye. But for video that’s generated by the PC (gameplay) then the full 4:4:4 chroma setting can be used as long as the TV can accept that signal.

You’re probably thinking of RGB range, which should be set to the full setting for both the TV and whatever is connected to it.

This Q probably belongs in the Tech Support thread. But I have a 2008 Panasonic plasma (still) and when it is hooked up to the PC and I'm playing games, I think it looks slightly dark and low res compared to my (admittedly far newer and higher-res) 34" 21:9 1440p Dell or Xiaomi monitors. Should I do something like this?

https://calibracionhd.com/tv-calibration-screen-calibration-how-to-calibrate-monitor-fast-and-easy/

I mean, I guess I could also just replace it with an LG OLED, but from what I understand I'd have to calibrate stuff anyway. Plus, school fees and other irritating expenses especially when I have no time to play games. And the need to upgrade my work and home desktops from Core 6th Gen to Ryzen 4xxx.

[Rare White Ape]

Oh yes, making adjustments will definitely help (I wouldn't call it calibration, because you need specialised equipment to properly calibrate a TV screen). Doing that is much cheaper than buying a new one, as long as what you've got hasn't degraded past the point of fixing via the settings sliders. Can't hurt to do it either, so what have you got to lose?

With the question of calibrating a new TV, they are pretty good out-of-the-box. One brand, I think it's a 2020 LG OLED, has a factory calibration in a premium model that is specific to each panel as it rolls off the assembly line. In general you want to use game mode or cinema mode with all image processing turned off, as this will be closest to 'reference' image setup, and then fine tune things (contrast, saturation, sharpness) to meet your preference. Always run backlight at full pelt on an HDR screen.

[Yw-slayer]

Well, yeah. I mean, not proper calibration. But OK, I will try and sort it out.

The plasma isn't HDR (same with my 34" monitors) and I'm reasonably happy with it. Of course HDR would be better, but when a 55" LG BX is one month's school fees for one child then: Yeah, nah.

[MR2 Fan]

via twitter:

@backlon

Xbox Series S doesn’t run Xbox One X versions but instead Xbox One S versions but the Xbox Series S can double the Xbox One S frame rate so the Xbox Series S is sort of like Two Xbox One Ses but not really parallel which is why it’s a Xbox Series S Instead of a Xbox One Two S

[Rare White Ape]

Nailed it.

[balki]

Feels like the Xbox Series S is a steal at $300, but is the XSS > X1X?
I know the X1X has more TFLOPS and memory, but the XSS has a much newer CPU and much, much faster storage (my biggest gripe with the One and PS4 is the SATA II connection where an SSD barely makes a difference).

[Kchrpm]

I read an analysis that said, because of the generational improvements, the 4 TFLOPS of the XSS is slightly better than the 6 TFLOPS of the XOX. That, in addition to the CPU and storage improvements you mentioned, mean it should be better in nearly every situation. That being said, for games that got XOX improvements of better textures, filters, etc, the XSS will *not* get those enhancements, it will just play the original versions very smoothly. One of my reasons for choosing the XSX is so that I will be effectively getting upgrades for games I already own and play (or want to play) regularly.

[Kchrpm]

More details on XSS performance: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-this-is-how-xbox-series-s-back-compat-really-works


However, there is one more feature that Microsoft has only mentioned in passing - and now we know more details, we're excited by it: the idea that select Xbox One titles will run at double the frame-rate on the new consoles, including Series S.

"We designed the Series S to enhance the Xbox One S games in a way that the Xbox One X can't do," system architect Andrew Goossen tells us. "We made it easy for existing Xbox One S games to be updated to run with double the frame-rate when played on Series S as well. When games are updated, existing games can query to determine whether they're running on the new console. And in terms of the performance, the Series S provides well over double the effective CPU and GPU performance over the Xbox One, making it pretty straightforward for the games to do this. And in fact, the Series S GPU runs the Xbox One S games with better performance than the Xbox One X."

[Rare White Ape]

the 4 TFLOPS of the XSS is slightly better than the 6 TFLOPS of the XOX.

This proves once again that flops are not a good measure of hardware performance.

[Kchrpm]

They are better within the same generation than across generations, apparently. But as usual there is no rock solid way to know which card will be faster just from numbers, just as there's no number that can tell you which car will be faster around a racetrack.

[Yw-slayer]

There is such a number. It's the time it takes the car to go around the racetrack. :p :D

[Kchrpm]

*shakes fist*

[Rare White Ape]

Well really it’s a combination of numbers, but somehow the marketing fluff-brains kinda latched on to teh flopz as a overly simplified way to advertise performance.

But history shows that the most popular consoles have not always been the most powerful ones. In fact I cannot think of a single console generation that was “won” in terms of sales by the most powerful console, apart from maybe the caveat that the current gen was won by the regular spec PS4 and we ignore the Pro and X1X.

[Tom Servo]

That's been a thing forever. When I first got into programming and set up a Linux box it would advertise how many "bogomips" the CPU was capable of, "bogus millions of instructions per second".

And, despite that, we still used "bogomips" to compare the performance of different CPUs.

[Rare White Ape]

Big news.

Massive news.

The biggest news:

Microsoft has bought Zenimax, owner of Bethesda, for $7.5Bn.

So all new releases from them will come into Game Pass. That’s all future Doom, Fallout, Wolfenstein, Quake and Elder Scrolls titles, as well as Starfield which was announced last year.

No word is yet forthcoming on whether any of these games will be excluded from release on PS5. But hopefully it means no more mistakes like Fallout 76, possibly the worst game of the generation.

[Kchrpm]

Having MS as a sugar daddy does not prevent you from making key design decision mistakes. I don't think that becoming part of a larger company has ever done that.

[Yobbo NZ]

Preorder clusterfuck.
Was rather excited by this, set alarm for 8am so I wouldn't miss it at work.
Logged into the retailer I was prepared to spend money with. Nope, they want full payment.
Tried another, they wanted $50 deposit, good.
Tried to secure one, wouldn't let me click and collect or set a delivery address.
Why? Because they had sold out.

Awesome!

[Yw-slayer]

Assuming you have the cash or credit, what's wrong with full payment if you're going to spend the money anyway?

[Rare White Ape]

It’s pretty much a given that they would sell out in a few minutes. I wouldn’t be surprised if a large proportion of them went to scalper bots in other countries, which would then be hitting other regions as they get to 8am.

It’s a safe bet to predict that they won’t be available in large numbers (meaning you won’t be able to just walk into a shop to get one) for six months. The easiest way to get one will be to put down a pre-order for subsequent shipments. I know EB will do this in Australia.

[Yobbo NZ]

I would have put $50 down now, secure one knowing I can keep saving till release date, walk in and back out with a shiny new Xbox VS having to explain to my wife why $749 has suddenly disappeared from our account to Xbox.com.au or Harvey Norman.
I think the first scenario is the safest.

It's a shame it's turned out like this for both consoles. Used to be able to walk into a retailer and buy it, not hypetrainpreorderhopeyougetonestiffshitifyoumissed out crap.

[balki]

I don't remember what the PS2 days were like, but every console since (nearly 20 years) has had this hype in the US (I think the Wii was the worst of them).

Is the MS store likely to have them available for at least the first 2-3 minutes? I'd much rather order directly from them.

[Yobbo NZ]

Previously its gone like this for me.
Xbox on launch, Xbox 360 on launch, PS2 on launch, Xbone day one edition on launch, I've walked into a shop and bought it without ordering.
Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky 🤣

[Rare White Ape]

You could still have the chance to walk into a department store like Target or Big W on launch day (or more accurately spend six hours in a queue) if they're doing sales with no pre-orders. Keep your ear to the ground for that sort of stuff.

[Yobbo NZ]

That's true, still a bit over a month to go.

[Rare White Ape]

Or, another option, if you’re with Telstra you can order one with Xbox All Access (it’s a phone-like payment plan that includes Game Pass and the pricing is very reasonable).

[Yobbo NZ]

Fuck Telstra. Got rid of that headache years ago. Recently got rid of Optus too, only have them for mobile now, which is still painful enough.

[Kchrpm]

Pre-orders went live at 11 AM eastern in the US. Most of Best Buy's gaming section seemed to crash at that point. Searching for the product page directly did work, but by the time I got there at 11:02 they were all gone.

They're already on eBay for $600 to $1600.

[balki]

Microsoft has confirmed that pre-orders will start at 11 am Eastern US on September 22nd. I....will probably be ready.
Thanks for all the info, specifically this (snagged an S from the MS Store).

[Jason]

I attempted to pre-order both the PS5 and the XSX, and neither were available within 30 seconds of “launch”, but they’re readily available on eBay. Sony and MS made this more difficult than necessary for normal folks. Whatever, I’ll check again next year or whatever.

[Phil_SS]

I attempted to pre-order both the PS5 and the XSX, and neither were available within 30 seconds of “launch”, but they’re readily available on eBay. Sony and MS made this more difficult than necessary for normal folks. Whatever, I’ll check again next year or whatever.

Samesies.

[Rare White Ape]

I’m on a longer-term plan: not buy any of them until there’s a PS5 slim or GT7 comes out.

[FaultyMario]

Why don't sell thru their subscription services? It would seem to me those would be free of scalper bots.

[Kchrpm]

Then you're locking out all of your retail partners, or making them have to authenticate to your servers and therefore just causing more havoc I'd guess.

[FaultyMario]

Not really. A lot of bands' fan clubs have preferential ticketing thru ticketmaster and such services, it sends a great message to both business partners and their customer base of how much the organization values them. I'm thinking of how U2, Radiohead, Pearl Jam work with promoters and even festivals to avoid ticket scalping.

[Tom Servo]

I was actually thinking that Ticketmaster should really branch out into trying to license their anti-bot tech, especially since there's so little money in ticketing right now. I know it's not perfect, but they put a ton of work into that and it's become pretty clear that all these ecommerce sites have found themselves on the back foot when it comes to bots buying up all their inventory.

[Yw-slayer]

I mean, guys, it's a console. It'll be around for several years. What's the rush? Why pay the premium?

Says the guy who, when he was 11, had the fortune to go to Japan with his late dad and buy a super famicom and a bunch of games shortly after launch. And had to bring his classmates over as they didn't believe (from the manual alone) he had one. Good thing I still have most of the games and the console and controllers.

So anyway yeah, it'll be around for a while. :D

[Kchrpm]

I could see Microsoft doing a special pre-order for people with XBox Live accounts only ahead of time, I just don't see how Walmart/Best Buy/Target/Amazon would feel about it.

And I don't think the monopolistic-tactics of Ticketmaster should be spread too far.

[Phil_SS]

Yeah, I have never understood why I can't preorder via Xbox Live. I can preorder games, I think I can even buy controllers through there. Why not a console? I mean the Microsoft store sells the consoles, they are a part of the food chain.

[balki]

Just realized that I paid $300 to play the same games, but at 120fps (which I don't think my TV can display anyway). Faster load-times won't mean anything for multiplayer where everyone else still has to wait.

The 500GB internal storage may not be enough for 3 full games and their DLC.
Any idea how much the 1TB expansion card will be? I heard $219 which is absurd, but also believable (remember how much of a mark-up PS1 and PS2 memory cards had).

[Blerpa]

219.99$ exactly. And it is official.

https://www.polygon.com/2020/9/24/21454190/xbox-series-x-storage-expansion-card-price-seagate-ssd-1-tb-buy

And no, you cannot use external drives with the new games.

[balki]

Yikes.
There was something like 360GB of free space on the 500GB X1. That will mean it'll be a struggle to get the Flight Sim, CoD and Forza 8 on the XSS at the same time.

Will there be any attempt to not make them (and their patches/DLC) so massive? They manage to make a direct port of a 1980's arcade game (about 1MB) be close to 1GB, wtf.

[Kchrpm]

You can use an external drive to store games, but they have to be transferred to the internal drive or expansion card to be played.

And I get the feeling that Flight Sim won't come to the consoles.

[Jason]

You can use an external drive to store games, but they have to be transferred to the internal drive or expansion card to be played.

And I get the feeling that Flight Sim won't come to the consoles.

AFAIK its already been announced for “Xbox”

[Blerpa]

You can use an external drive to store games, but they have to be transferred to the internal drive or expansion card to be played.

And I get the feeling that Flight Sim won't come to the consoles.

It is already coming for Xbox Series.
And no, don't get hopes up for games getting smaller in size.
That's what you get in buying a console: storage limitation.
I can buy a 1TB mechanical disk for 35 euro to store stuff and games.
Or 80-100 euro for 1TB of sata SSD or NVMe quicker storage solution.
NVMe pci-e 4.0 are still expensive but in 2 years time they will cost half or even less than the Xbox (and PS5) solutions.

[Rare White Ape]

See, this is why buying consoles within 12 months of launch is a bad idea!

[Jason]

You can say that about any technology release, really

[Kchrpm]

I didn't know about Flight Sim coming to XBox :up: Good to hear!

[Rare White Ape]

You can say that about any technology release, really

Can’t argue with that.

I think consoles are uniquely positioned, as there’s no other products that I can think of that are so isolated in terms of what is new and what’s left behind each time a new iteration is introduced.

Microsoft is trying really hard to address that with this generation, so huge credit to them. However, to release a discless machine (Series S) who’s primary lifeline is XGP, but equip it with only 500GB of internal storage in this day and age, and have it rely on very expensive expansion media, is a bit on the nose.

But I suppose they couldn’t possibly get it down to that price point with double the storage right now. I guess in 12 or 18 months time it’ll get a good discount or a storage boost and be an even more attractive proposition.

[Yw-slayer]

So, buy a PC.

[balki]

I was seriously looking into that, but it'd be about $1000 (vs 300-500).
On top of that I don't want to deal with drivers, compatibility issues, … or whatever it takes to do PC gaming.

Oh, and the massive amount of hackers. I'm actually afraid of cross-play against the Glorious PC Gaming Master Race (I'm already getting pwned by the console kids).

[Yw-slayer]

Nowadays, cost aside (and I think that is balanced by the fact that you can use the PC to do things other than play games) there are no real problems with PC gaming, other than the possibility of hacking. You can also easily use a DS4/X controller if you want.

As to hacks, sure, I'm sure they are there, I have also accepted that I will never be able to compete with most kids when playing MP on PC or console, so let them compete for the upper half or 75% of the board.do.

[Kchrpm]

The posts in the Flight Sim thread disagree with your statement on the lack of issues with PC gaming. Though to be fair the game I've been playing most recently on XBox has plenty of stability issues itself.

[Jason]

PCs are definitely friendlier now vs back in ye olden days, but consoles are still on a different level of simplicity and reliability. They both have their places, I don't get why people are so adamant about others' choices.

[Rare White Ape]

There are pros and cons with everything. I accept the cons of dealing with pooters in exchange for the massive amount of pros that they provide.

In all seriousness, Flight Sim is just one game, and they have fixed the main issue I was having. Outside of this I've got a veritable bevy of great games on my PC that have worked absolutely flawlessly. And they come with scalability and customisability that is unheard of on a console.

That, and I've been enjoying an almost next-gen level of graphical fidelity for the last 18 months so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Phil_SS]

I just don't want the extra hassle a PC entails. Plain and simple. My Xbox One just works, when it needs an update it auto downloads it and I don't have to worry about if my graphic settings are correct, is my processor powerful enough or do I have the right graphics card etc. Completely hassle free.

I would just rather spend my time playing the games. Also, i have no need for a PC. So it's other abilities are moot for me.

And as far as state of the art graphics, I used to play on a 720P LCD TV, until about 3 years ago and now I play on a 1080P LCD. I honestly have no idea there is a difference between 4K and 1080P other than what people say. Will I upgrade someday, probably, but I don't find it to be imperative.

[Jason]

The bigger upgrade, imo, is HDR really. The wider color range, better shadow detail, etc makes a larger difference than slightly smaller pixels at most viewing distances.

[Yw-slayer]

They both have their places, I don't get why people are so adamant about others' choices.

I'm not, really, I have a PS4, a Switch, and a gaming PC. Of those, it's the Switch that gets the most play (family games), followed lately by the PS4 (God of War, which is... a family game of a different sort) and actually, last, is the PC.

As a matter of fact, the ipad and my android phone are my main gaming platforms. :lol:

[Blerpa]

...I don't get why people are so adamant about others' choices.

Actually it seems PS4 fanboys are the most incediary ones and the ones most jealous (kindergaten style?) of their favourite console's exclusives.
I mean, whatever, keep your exclusives, kids.

[Rare White Ape]

It’s more fun to own enough devices to play every game ever.

[Blerpa]

Well, that's obvious.
But it's also a matter of time, not only of money.
We aren't anymore students or such with plenty of hours to daily dedicate to gaming.

[Tom Servo]

Hah, yeah, now I have enough money to just buy each one of them, but then they just sit there most of the time.

'Course, at the moment I find myself with a lot of time and less money...

[Rare White Ape]

Opposite to YW then?

[FaultyMario]

Hah, yeah, now I have enough money to just buy each one of them, but then they just sit there most of the time.

'Course, at the moment I find myself with a lot of time and less money...

Kick out the jams!

[Kchrpm]

Time to become a game streamer!

[Yw-slayer]

Opposite to YW then?

No, man. I got neither time nor money.

[Phil_SS]

Time to become a game streamer!

You know Vivien will watch!

[Kchrpm]

I meant Swervo!

[Tom Servo]

twitch.tv/watchswervosuck

[Jason]

When did Twitch start allowing 18+ content?

[21Kid]

When did Twitch start allowing 18+ content?


twitch.tv/watchswervosuck

*clap* *clap* *clap*

[balki]

Not sure the Series S (in it's current form) will last a year:

The Call of Duty from 2015* is above 150GB with all DLC (*it's so old that it was port over the the PS3 and X360)
I'm told CoD:Warzone is over 200GB
This makes me think that the X1S** might not be able to fit CoD:Cold War when all the free DLC hits (**512GB internal storage minus about 200GB for the OS/system)

Seriously, the XSS might not be able to fit one full game

[Kchrpm]

Microsoft's response to that is two fold:
1) The XSS does not need to download the same texture packs that the 4K capable systems do. Part of the idea of the "Smart Delivery" system is that the game should only download content for the version of the game it can play.
2) They are pushing developers to do a better job of reducing size of games, rather than not caring.

For examples of both, Sea of Thieves has reduced its download size for all three current versions, and the new sizes range from 10 GB to 27 GB:


Sea of Thieves download size Xbox One, Xbox One X, and Windows 10 PC
Sea of Thieves players on Xbox One will have to download 10GB instead of 35GB while Xbox One X players will have a 25GB download size rather than 47GB. Meanwhile, Windows 10 PC players will have a 27GB download from 47GB.

[Phil_SS]

Microsoft's response to that is two fold:
1) The XSS does not need to download the same texture packs that the 4K capable systems do. Part of the idea of the "Smart Delivery" system is that the game should only download content for the version of the game it can play.
2) They are pushing developers to do a better job of reducing size of games, rather than not caring.

For examples of both, Sea of Thieves has reduced its download size for all three current versions, and the new sizes range from 10 GB to 27 GB:

Bungie is doing the same with Destiny 2. Some of the reduction is story based and some of it is optimization of the game. The new size will be like 70GB, while the current size is 105GB.

And the fact that COD:Warzone is 200gb is ridiculous. It's become a meme for how bad they have optimized the game and the expansions.

[balki]

Thanks Keith, that's good news.
Not convinced that Activision/CoD will do enough (the 150GB game from five years ago pre-dates the X1X/4K resolution), but I have hope from everyone else (and certainly MS exclusives).

[stephenb]

What I can't work out is why the Series X OS is so large? Way bigger than a fresh Win10 install.

[Kchrpm]

The reserved space on the Series hard drives isn't just for the OS, it's also the space used for Quick Resume.

[Rare White Ape]

CoD developers are reducing the size of the latest betas. They’re also allowing users to uninstall the single player portion.

But to do this requires a patch, as the functionality wasn’t there when the game originally released. So the games have to get bigger before they can get smaller!

[balki]

Forbes reports (https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2020/11/05/call-of-duty-black-ops-cold-war-is-massive-and-even-bigger-on-ps5-and-xbox-series-x/?sh=25ece43024ca) that CoD Cold War launch at 136GB for the Series X|S ... so basically most of the Series S's available 364GB when all DLC is included. Maybe they can keep it down to 200GB with optimization and Smart Delivery, which may still not leave room for a full Forza.

Microsoft did ship my Series S a couple of days ago, but it looks like FedEx is going to keep it in their warehouse for 5 days before sending it out for delivery.

Also (a week late), there's a Series X fridge (https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/10/28/xbox-and-snoop-dogg-unveil-the-xbox-series-x-fridge/). Love that a trillion dollar company still has a sense of humor

[Rare White Ape]

So, is anyone enjoying any spicy new hardware today?

[Yw-slayer]

CoD developers are reducing the size of the latest betas. They’re also allowing users to uninstall the single player portion.

But to do this requires a patch, as the functionality wasn’t there when the game originally released. So the games have to get bigger before they can get smaller!

Well, you could probably delete the install, and redownload it?


So, is anyone enjoying any spicy new hardware today?

Probably my German friend who lives in Switzerland. I'm not sure why he ordered it as he's not a big gamer, but anyway.

[balki]

Got the S; it's small, like what the ps2 was (forgot how much smaller consoles were prior to the OG Xbox and fat PS3).
I'm not expecting to play anything optimized for it anytime soon. If there's something on Game Pass that will take advantage of it I'll give it a try, otherwise I'm just looking forward to faster load times of X1 games.

[Rare White Ape]

Download Tetris Effect.

Right now.

[balki]

Tetris Effect Connected, is that suitable/playable with a controller?

[Rare White Ape]

Yep of course it is!

[balki]

Cool, thought it might have need the Xbox Connect (edit, the peripheral is called Kinect, hence my confusion).
Not sure why you recommended something that's a fusion between a DreamCast and GameBoy game, but I was up until 3am playing it (knocked down the difficulty level starting at stage 9). edit II: according to my smartwatch I was asleep the whole time, guess I dreamt that I played Tetris

As for the XSS; load time are slightly to noticeably better.
The controller feels different (slightly more mechanical and noisy) and is not compatible with the rechargeable battery pack I have for the X1.

[Rare White Ape]

Not sure why you recommended something that's a fusion between a DreamCast and GameBoy game, but I was up until 3am playing it

That’s why.

It was my favourite game of 2018 when it initially came out on PS4. Now it’s out on PC and Xbox more people can enjoy it. And in VR it’s sensational.

[balki]

welp, seems like the XSS will be used for these purest of games:

Installed one X1 game and am down to 242 GB free.
CoD Cold War is 188GB out the gate for the Series X|S

I actually think I can justify getting a PS5 next year and keeping the XSS as the net cost will be just over $100 after selling the X1S (plus it has a small footprint).

[balki]

Xbox Game Pass Ultimate (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/xbox-game-pass-ultimate/cfq7ttc0khs0?activetab=pivot:overviewtab) is $1
Don't jump on it just yet (I think you have until Jan 31); it should convert your XBL to Ultimate (Gold + Game Pass), so max out XBL to 3 years then convert.

[Kchrpm]

Be careful, when you buy 3 years of XBL Gold, if you already have any, you can't redeem all 3 years, so you can't convert all 3 years. But if they're going to end that promotion in January, and I can't get to exactly 2 years (to add the third) until February...

[Jason]

Finally got my hands on a Series X, it's kind of crazy how exactly the same, but faster, it is compared to the One X. MS is definitely going for a unified feel across consoles.

Transferring games was foiled a couple times due to them needing to be redownloaded completely for Series X features, so now I'm over my data cap :lol:

But I did pickup a couple years of XBL Gold, then converted it to Game Pass, so that's cool. Checked out Flight Simulator and it's as gorgeous as advertised. Other than that, I've only tested previous gen games, which all work smoother/faster.

Oh, and being able to quick resume multiple games is fucking amazing.

[Rare White Ape]

Microsoft has built 20 years of Xbox museum, and it can be accessed here: https://museum.xbox.com/en/map

There's also a trophy room, where signing into your Xbox Live account will display your first login to Live, your most played games, number of achievements, etc.

Mine are 5th of January 2004, Forza Motorsport 2, and 673.

Pretty dang cool :cool:

[Kchrpm]

It didn't give me my first login date, but did say my most played game (out of 332) was Forza 6, and # of achievements is 1233.

And it won't load my personal museum past the graphic.

[Yobbo NZ]

Anyone from NZ, their stats are borked.
When we first got Xbox Live, we had to create an account as an.......Australian.
Then when NZ got their own region, our original account got wiped and we started again.
I can remember getting a console, "The Beast entertainment pack" around the end of 2003.
https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/the-beast-xbox-entertainment-pack/1461101
It also came with Crimson Skies and PGR2, I think that may have been another add on.
I still have the console, in a box in working order. It's outlasted my launch PS2 and a launch X360.

[21Kid]

Neat!
3845

[Phil_SS]

Pretty cool!

My first day on Xbox Live was in Oct of 2004 and the first game was PGR2.

[Phil_SS]

I gave up on getting a Series X and I bought a Series S. I don’t have a 4K TV so the Series X would not have been a better fit for me at this time. And I could just walk into Walmart and buy one. :).

So far so good. The system and games load way faster than my Xbox One with SD drive. And graphically, wow. Destiny looks phenomenal and the FPS is now at 60. So it runs so smooth.

[Kchrpm]

Best Buy has a big order allotment of XSXs coming in it seems, and I got one! Picking it up this weekend, looking forward to finishing Guardians of the Galaxy and trying out some other games with the new visuals.

[Kchrpm]

It was delivered early! Picked it up today and got it set up, still downloading everything but did some laps in FM7 and really enjoyed the crisper graphics that are just holdovers from the XBox One X 4K upgrade. I'll save Guardians for when I can actually focus on and finish it.

[Rare White Ape]

Noice :up:

[balki]

I see scalpers have been selling the XSX for less than MSRP if you include with tax.
It's now available on the Microsoft site without the need to buy anything else (it's been available for a little while, but you had to get a game, controller and/or 3mo GassPass).

The XSS has been available on and off since launch, and frankly makes a lot of sense if the extra storage isn't a deal-breaker.

Costco (perhaps amazon, too) have $100 MS gift cards for $90 and sometimes $80, so it's possible to get a XSX for less than $500.

[21Kid]

Nice

[Kchrpm]

Update: the GOTG finale was great in 4K60, Microsoft Flight Simulator is beautiful, and going back to more older games really felt like a different experience with the load times and crisp graphics. I put a bunch of hours into The Division 2, which I'd barely started, and Avengers, which I've played a ton of.

I also tried Overwatch and Apex Legends, but constantly getting my teeth kicked in had a more powerful effect than the new graphics.

[Yobbo NZ]

If you need help in Div2, I've been playing that a bit lately, finally finished the New York story. I'm attempting the Summit, I'm somewhere around floor 51 I think.

[Kchrpm]

I've stayed away from the big coordinated online stuff, and any DLC, but I would take some help for those. I just need a high level F2000 to go with my high level P90 so I can feel content ;)

[Yobbo NZ]

The Summit should give you exotics, I have 3 on my way up so far and some good green gear, not quite full sets yet.

[Yobbo NZ]

Whaaka yeah! Just had a Series X turn up. No doubt they'll announce an updated model soon just to annoy me.

[Tom Servo]

Now that the XBox One has been EOL'd, my wife got me a Series X for my birthday. I've only just got it set up and spent a few hours downloading a couple of games. I have to say, I'm actually a little happy that it's clear that it struggles to handle FH5 at 4K vs. my PC. I'd be really sad if a $500 console could match the performance of my machine with a $600+ video card in it.

It does run, and pretty well, and it's nice to have an XBox that can actually handle its own OS without bogging down. Also happy to have lost the giant power brick.