2021 Toyota GR86 & Subaru BRZ

[samoht]

(new name, new thread right?)

Some semi-official details of the twins' successor have emerged:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/next-toyota-gt86-confirmed-2021-leaked-presentation
http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/details-on-next-toyota-86-land-cruiser-leaked/

July 2021 launch
2.4L Subaru FA24 flat-four turbo, 252hp
Toyota TNGA platform, FR layout
Improved cabin materials
Toyota version gets a new name to tie in with the range-wide "GR" branding


I'm really looking forward to this as long as they can keep the weight down. I wonder what gearbox(es) it'll have?

[Freude am Fahren]

CVT :hard:

[CudaMan]

I am skeptical, but guyz please please please make the turbo power delivery not suck at either end of the RPM range! Once we heard about the 0.4L displacement bump a couple months ago I was hoping it would not be turbo and it would not gain weight. That would make an amazing car. My fear is the TNGA platform, even scaled for this car, may be heavier and thus the "need" for the turbo to make it faster than the existing car. I hope I'm wrong.

[The359]

With rumors of both NA and Turbo 2.4s, we will have to wait and see.

Is it just me or does 252hp seem low for both increased displacement and a turbo?

[TheBenior]

Is it just me or does 252hp seem low for both increased displacement and a turbo?
Unless it's a German style pessimistic rating, it's on the low end for a turbo engine of that size these days.

2013-2018 Focus ST 2.0: 252 hp
2019+ Kia/Hyundai 2.5: 300 hp
2019+ Subaru Ascent 2.4: 260 hp

[Freude am Fahren]

Does seem low, which make me think small turbo meant for low end torque that wheezes out on top.

[samoht]

Does seem low, which make me think small turbo meant for low end torque that wheezes out on top.

If they do that it would be a mistake; a big lump of torque low down tends to exaggerate the transition from off-boost to on-boost, which destabilises a RWD car and exacerbates its inherent limited traction. I would hope that they would rather limit the boost pressure to keep more of an 'NA' character to the powerband, just driving like a bigger nat-asp engine.

I really question how this car will sit in the range together with the Supra 2.0 with 250hp. Hopefully lighter and cheaper is the answer :) I have a bit of an aversion to inline fours, but a flat four is attractive. I've also decided I prefer turbo to n/a power delivery, controversial I know but the 350Z isn't as exciting an engine as the FD, despite both making pretty much the same power.

The TGNA platform is used for the Yaris too, so hopefully it doesn't have to weigh a lot. This could be my ideal car.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTJKhMWRQTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK5A7kOg3m0

YAASSSS

Should I buy one so that I have a Mk1 and a Mk2? Or should I aim for an Elise instead? Hmmmm.

[The359]

Large increase in torque, peak is now coming in at 3500rpms instead of 5500rpms on the older car. No more torque dip. Redline actually increases from 7400 to 7500, but peak horsepower is at 7000rpms, which I believe is slightly lower. So it's going to have a much more usable range at least. Rear track is wider, and the car now comes with Pilot 4S tires. Chassis has a lot of stiffening, lower center of gravity as well. No more sound tube that I can see. All digital dash, although the graphics are a bit plain.

The styling will take getting used to. I'm not fond of the rear end treatment, especially since it appears the trunk now sits higher meaning less rear window to see out of. Hooray, it has a duckbill, but at what cost. The Moustache has gone, but if you look at the front grill it's actually been hidden in there, half of that is blanked off with plastic. Overall the front seems longer and the rear seems shorter and it just makes the proportions seem off. I hate that they integrated a front license plate mount into the actual bodywork, that will stick out like a sore thumb.

Waiting to see what Toyota does with theirs, as the FR-S and 86 looked completely different, so there isn't much lineage for them to draw on here.

[Rare White Ape]

Certainly looks better than the old in the styling department.

But should you get one of these

or

a

Lotus

Elise

?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGqtJHt5hrO9pxDH6OvDrulipgTFUda li1HdpKEIIuPV4177r6jX6C5jw&s=10

[Kchrpm]

I don't really care for the headlights. The face in general just feels a little bit off. But it's not bad.

I like the mechanical changes that 359 details, though.

[Jason]

I like it, and it seems like a hell of a bargain.

[MR2 Fan]

Sounds GR8....6

[Yw-slayer]

I think it looks great, headlights and rear. Much better in video and, I'm sure, in-person. It stirs the same feelings in me that my current one does.

I think it's only Pilot Sport 4, not Pilot Sport 4S, tyres? I agree with the former, not the latter.

Designing and planning for a front number plate mount is absolutely fine with me, as front number plates are compulsory in Japan, and in every country where I'm likely to every own a car (probably most countries in the world I think, although somewhat oddly apparently this won't be sold in the UK - maybe only the Toyota version will be). It's a better approach than the Alfa 156, which had a beautiful front which was ruined by the front number plate.

[Phil_SS]

But will it come in green? Probably not but ya know I can dream.

I like the looks of it. And I like that it has a bit more power and torque but will that be at the price of weight. We shall see.

[Yw-slayer]

Huh?

Available colour is not an issue. Respray if you must.

"... at the price of weight"? It's 15lb heavier than the old one.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/11/18/2022-subaru-brz-revealed/


Subaru even managed to keep the BRZ's curb weight from doing anything silly. The 2020 model was listed at 2,798 pounds with the manual transmission; that climbs to just 2,815 for 2022. This effectively means you're getting more horsepower and more torque without any appreciable weight penalty, and Subaru didn't even have to resort to a more complex turbocharged engine in order to do it.

I saw an 80lb difference being thrown around somewhere, but even that's de minimis.

[Phil_SS]

Huh?

Available colour is not an issue. Respray if you must.

"... at the price of weight"? It's 15lb heavier than the old one.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/11/18/2022-subaru-brz-revealed/


I saw an 80lb difference being thrown around somewhere, but even that's de minimis.

It is an issue. Car manufacturers have basically abandoned the color green. And it it is my favorite color. I was just bringing up as a joke, for the most part.

And it is good to hear the weight is pretty much the same. :up: The videos posted yesterday and the Subaru site says nothing about the weight.

[Yw-slayer]

Ah, OK. Lol

[The359]

But will it come in green? Probably not but ya know I can dream.

I like the looks of it. And I like that it has a bit more power and torque but will that be at the price of weight. We shall see.

Did you miss this?

https://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/2020-toyota-86-hakone-edition_100748160_l.jpg

[Phil_SS]

Never released in America.

[MR2 Fan]

ok so actual feedback. IMO, the difference between a 2.0 liter and 2.4 liter engine is a huge improvement. My biggest complaint of the previous version is the lack of low-end power. having 223 hp and 180+ lb ft of torque isn't telling the whole story if the powerband can be more useful. I just think of this based on my history with the 2.0 liter FR-S and the 2.4 liter Scion tC before this.

[Yw-slayer]

I agree. Although it can be fun to wring out the 2.0L, especially in cooler weather.

[The359]

Never released in America.

Actually it was. I've driven one.

https://scontent.fphl1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/76683793_10103172295122207_2920878207127257088_o.j pg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=tNUwplYt9ZoAX_cp_zE&_nc_ht=scontent.fphl1-2.fna&oh=015147f0b13f128b84cf274c466cb930&oe=5FDF6E70

[Phil_SS]

Awesome!

I figured since it was a Japan edition it wouldn’t be released here. I will add it to my list of potential new cars. :up

[The359]

It was the 86 Hakone Edition. They sold them last model year.

[Rare White Ape]

That’s a beautiful colour combo.

[MR2 Fan]

Indeed, I still think the spoiler looks to small and flimsy though

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnWuzPCW4AcAi61.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnWuzPAXMAIjTMt.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnWuzVuXIAI0RU6.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnWuzVqWEAoG72F.jpg


https://twitter.com/lovecarindustry/status/1330161554940104705

[Yw-slayer]

I should point out that the Mk1 pics are mixed. The first one is of the original car. The next few are of the face-lift.

[The359]

They're actually all pictures of the facelift model, the first one is just labeled incorrectly.

I notice that there are quite a few different body lines, besides the usual stuff. The front fender is no longer a bulge, but instead goes straight from the windshield to the headlight. The doors are also a different shape, and the fuel door also shows how different the rear fender shape is; I notice much more of the rear wheel tread is visible from the rear than on the current car. There is also an aero piece on the rear fender, similar to what TRD offered on their bodykit packages.

In fact the only piece that looks for certain to be a carry over from the old car is the steering wheel. Same controls and everything.

I believe someone mentioned somewhere that the wheels are the same ones sold on the Toyota GR Yaris in their performance package.

[Yw-slayer]

Ah yes, you're right. The face-lift headlights are slightly different.

[FaultyMario]

Do my eyes deceive me or did they attempt to bunch up more of its mass towards the center of the car?

Roofline looks closer to waistline and rear winglet looks more ahead of b-pillar, that's probably an optic illusion but the fact that that little window looks smaller and more towards the center, makes the backseat area appear a couple of centimeters smaller.

[FaultyMario]

It might be a distortion from different lenses, though.

[CudaMan]

No more sound tube that I can see.
Good news, but I hope that doesn't mean there will be fake sound piped through the speakers!


It was the 86 Hakone Edition. They sold them last model year.
I spent a day driving one for photo/video, which was used internally at Toyota. The color is gorgeous in person. I see greens making a comeback on cars in recent years.

I'm excited for the new car. I think they went in the right direction based on what I'm reading. Evolutionary improvement of a really good formula - reminds me of the Porsche or BMW approach. I'm impressed by the engine capacity increase without increasing (to my knowledge) its external dimensions, and in fact lowering the center of gravity. Torque should be much more usable around town and it still has a high redline. Hoping it doesn't wheeze out as it approaches redline. The 2.0L car is pretty linear once it's in the powerband. And its' not as underpowered as people think. It's not a slow car, it just feels slow. The engine has no real zing to it, it just gets the job done efficiently.

But why did Subaru have to make the side grilles on the front bumper look like, um... sleeve of wizard? :twitch:

[Freude am Fahren]

I'm impressed by the engine capacity increase without increasing (to my knowledge) its external dimensions, and in fact lowering the center of gravity.

Having spent a bit of time in that engine bay, I'm not surprised. I didn't have to relocate anything adding the Turbo. Only modification needed was a notch in the bumper support, which I replaced with one made for it). Hell, people have stuffed LS's into them without major cutting, I think.

[Freude am Fahren]

Well I've somewhat impulsively decided to trade-in the BRZ. It was super fun, but I have even more fun coming soon :D

[Yw-slayer]

Sad to hear. And how can anything be more fun than it??!! :x

Jk, hope your new ride is even better!

[Freude am Fahren]

Actually, I thought about that wording after I posted.

And in some ways it wont be. But for someone who lives in a flatland with straight roads, the advantages of the BRZ aren't as stand-out. The new car has some of the same spirit, but with more power, space and luxury.

[Yw-slayer]

That's fair. If I lived in Florida I wouldn't choose a BRZ.

[FaultyMario]

The new car has some of the same spirit, but with more power, space and luxury.

That's supar!

[Yw-slayer]

It could be M-Pr3ssive?

[Freude am Fahren]

It iS impre55ive indeed.

[FaultyMario]

Alex, What is a CLS?

[Yw-slayer]

It iS impre55ive indeed.

I 533, enjoy and good luck!

[Freude am Fahren]

The BRZ is gone :(

But now this is here :)

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3650&d=1608346496

3650

[Rare White Ape]

Nice. Congrats!

[Kchrpm]

A blue beauty :up:

[The359]

Bit of an upgrade

[Yw-slayer]

I like it - had a friend who didn't like his, but I think it's cool.

[CudaMan]

These are such awesome cars. Congrats!

[samoht]

Very nice! Start a separate thread (in the Garage?) and tell us how it drives :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Very nice trade indeed!

Yes, I’d be interested to know how the 2 compares handling-wise...

[Freude am Fahren]

You can definitely tell it's heaver, but the limits of grip (so far as I've seen on off ramps and such) seem to be quite a bit higher, even with the 245 section P4S's I had on the BRZ.

I live in Florida, so the only handling opportunities outside of race tracks are on/off ramps and traffic circles :lol:

I look forward to getting it out into the hill country once I move to Texas. Still not Angeles Crest or Blood Mountain or The Dragon, but still a vast improvement.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Cool! So the 'upgrade' is worth it! ;)

[Freude am Fahren]

So far!

It was also a consolidation from 2 cars and a motorcycle to one car.

I'll start a garage thread soon.

[Rare White Ape]

2021 GT300 version

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/151266663_3902536709798163_1691352806631073317_o.j pg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=CbgFiI8JlewAX_oeAD1&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=b65ba85058d94cf01a51718fe3115d6b&oe=605B07B6

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/152204966_3902536816464819_7608526634306275448_o.j pg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=poQzWLcjEjAAX8gPjph&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=437d7cb30ae4fb9042a0f034ff42d198&oe=605A1981

[Yw-slayer]

Oh yes.

[Kchrpm]

Nearly indistinguishable from the road car.

[Godson]

Ok, that looks good.

[MR2 Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGe5Yz5V-Xs

[Rare White Ape]

I'm sorry, that video was too obnoxious :lol:

I kinda like the car though. Is the GR86 the new name for it, or is that the special version of the new GT86?

[MR2 Fan]

I'm a big fan of Throttle House...they do some hilarious stuff

[samoht]

I kinda like the car though. Is the GR86 the new name for it, or is that the special version of the new GT86?

GR86 is the new name, making up the promised 'three brothers' of Toyota sports models alongside the GR Yaris and GR Supra.

[Leon]

I'm waiting for the GR Corolla to drop, given that the GR Yaris used is selling at 25% over the original new sale price here in NZ.

Maybe I can get a GR Corolla, if they're not a silly price.

[XHawkeye]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynFkLeImkjw

2022 Subaru BRZ - Stock vs Modified Track Comparison at Thunderhill West