Practical daily: Subaru Legacy BP H6, BMW E91 330i, ?

[samoht]

After heaving my wife's suitcase into the slot between the strut brace and the bulkhead in the 350Z, I've started thinking about a change. I've backed out of selling the RX-7 - turns out an FD is better when it's not your only car, who knew? - but then keeping two impractical sports cars seems less than ideal.

So I am intending to sell the Z, and replace it with a car of similar weight and power but with a big load bay. Ideally I'll get an estate and then I can put bicycles in easy-peasy, although a hatchback would probably suffice.

I still want decent power, since it would be annoying to be caught short mid-overtake because I'd left the RX-7 at home. I also would like decent handling, although it doesn't need to be a sports car in terms of involvement, just reasonably capable. Should be reasonably comfortable for long trips. I want reasonable reliability, because I've already got one unreliable car.

I'm not bothered about image; I guess I lean towards Japanese cars but doesn't have to be. Fuel economy would be nice but not a high priority as I don't do many miles anyway. Auto or manual is fine in principle.

I don't want a diesel because you have to pay an extra tax to drive into greater London from next year. I'm leaning away from turbos because they tend to need more maintenance.


Current top contender is the Subaru Legacy 3.0 R, fourth gen (BP) 2004-2006

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ffMqnpjT5b9du6TfuPfPXnj1EFxun5eMOcR5dFQpMCJjPyiUd QYOz7OyLvCboL-sgLxQ6PZ-nz5JfCEAdtT71WHoD4mFzDC3Mr7nArZPb1OB__hzlYQSylYsTU p0fXA7MqbuSXUNrRGY-48XTnvqtaww=w800-h544-no?authuser=0
http://www.uklegacy.com/forums/index.php?/topic/152400-for-sale-2005-legacy-30r-spec-b-manual-wagon/

Pros: spacious, chain-driven nat-asp engine meant to be fairly strong, not too heavy (<1500kg?), 4WD, cheap (£2-4k)
Cons: Post March 2006 incur higher annual road tax due to thirst. Most are autos and the pre-06 auto is meant to be not-great. Fairly rare, most have high mileages. Rust is a concern especially as often bought for rural / winter duties.

Second contender is BMW 330i Touring E91 2005-2012ish
https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w800h600/82cb585ca6534f0cb638c51ef5e00a24.jpg
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009224076399

Pros: bit more efficient than the Subaru, & thus avoids higher rate tax, possibly more interesting handling (?), likely auto box is good, 'luxury' interior
Cons: Uncertainty over German maintenance costs especially cars from this period. Although 3-series are common, 330i petrol estates are vanishingly rare and seem to be auto only (pictured car is one of two I can see for sale, both autos).

Other options could include a Stagea, which would be even rarer and might need importing from Japan, which I probably can't be arsed with. But the closest thing to a 350Z estate. Or other estate options?

I don't really want an SUV. Minivans don't tend to come with the acceleration I want, not sure that the M-B R63 is really sensible.

Then you get onto upper size hot hatches, maybe Ford Focus ST or something. Not as big but I managed to fit bikes into my Pug 306 back in the day, so should work. Downside is being FF.

[Rare White Ape]

I once drove a Kia Carnival V6 people mover. Put the foot down and it went like a shower of shit.

And modern sporty FWDs are faster and grippier than older 2WD sportscars.

You should get a Lexus IS200 wagon.

[TheBenior]

I have a buddy who had a 2006(?) E90 325i, which in the US had the lower output 3.0L. Other than his clutch slave cylinder failing and taking the clutch with it (while still under warranty, thankfully), it was a pretty uneventful ownership experience.

Oil consumption that's excessive by typical Honda or Toyota standards isn't unusual in Subaru H6s here, but on the plus side, they seem less prone to head gasket leaks than the H4s.

The Focus ST hatchback is not particularly spacious inside, even compared to other cars in the class like a Mazda3 or GTI. In the US market, Ford was rather misleading about cargo volume (not only likely measuring to the roof, but also somehow having the same figure as lower trim Focus hatchbacks that didn't have full size spares).

[samoht]

You should get a Lexus IS200 wagon.

IS200 is great apart from the engine, 153hp. However an IS300 wagon is a really good option. Again super rare but they do exist.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-Lexus-IS300-Sportcross-3-0-Auto-LPG-Dual-Fuel-Autogas-Rare-Car/303691185985?hash=item46b567bf41:g:sScAAOSww-lfX5V9

[Yw-slayer]

As the only person here whose family has owned the sedan, higher or lower powered versions of both cars you are looking at, I may be able to assist.

[JoeW]

I would stay away from the BMW just because if it does break...it will be more expensive.

I would stick with Subaru/Toyota and maybe VW products. I really don't know what models you guys get in the UK so I can't make any specific suggestions.

[samoht]

As the only person here whose family has owned the sedan, higher or lower powered versions of both cars you are looking at, I may be able to assist.

How do you think they compare? Any big gotchas on the reliability front? Anything else I should consider?

All advice welcome :)

[Yw-slayer]

I'll post a bit later, as it was late over here and I was trying to gather my thoughts.

[Yw-slayer]

OK, what we had/have is as follows:

Have: 2005(ish) Legacy GT sedan (BL), 2.0L Turbo, both with and without STI springs and STI sway bars. Always stock rims. Tyres were originally Potenza RE050 (I think) and last 2 sets were Michelin Pilot Sport 4, around the same time the same got put on the BMW

Had: 2008(ish) BMW 320i E90 sedan. Tyres were originally whatever, I think the stock run-flats on the stock rims. Eventually we got a good deal from BMW as some dude traded in his M Sport-type 18" (I think) rims and tyres so we bought them and they came with got Pirelli P-Zeroes. When those ran low on tread we swapped to Michelin Pilot Sport 4 until we sold this car. So there was a period when they overlapped.

[Yw-slayer]

Sorry, been really busy. I'll try and give you the short version. I did write the bit above as it may give you some context.

Power:
I've never driven the H6 Legacy (or any H6 NA Subaru for that matter), but assuming it's got slightly less torque but slightly more weight than the 2.0T in the GT and that the power-to-weight ratio is around the same, I'd say that it's likely to be edged out by the 330i. This is however based solely on the fact that I really liked the E46 330i's engine the one time I drove my friends' old convertible.

Estate/Load area:
I've sadly never had either in estate form. The boot in both sedans was surprisingly spacious, for what it's worth.

Grip/Handling:
The BMW on the non-M rims was forgettable, although admittedly that was nearly 10 years ago so I may have just forgotten. On the M rims the P-Zeros gave insane amounts of grip (almost certainly overtyred given that it was a 320) but the steering was very heavy and it felt like it crashed over quite a lot of the rougher stuff. The Pilot Sport 4 was a better match for the car overall in almost every way - more comfortable, better telegraphing rather than just GRIPGRIPGRIP but still maintained the feel of the chassis clearly being RWD. The steering is reasonably communicative but not incredible. It's more of a car I found was best enjoyed when driving via the seat i.e. feeling the chassis move/rotate in line with the grip. I am sure that a 330 on reasonably sized rims and with the Pilot Sport 4 or even a higher-performance tyre would be a great handling car.

The Legacy chassis is, I understand, not actually that new a platform. Perhaps befitting its rallying roots, the car does sway/roll more than the E90, even with the STI springs (which made it crashier) and sway bars. With those two additions it does become more direct and the rear noticeably more tail-happy. However you are under no illusion that it is a RWD car. It is a noticeably more front-heavy car (I'd assume the H6 even more so) which relies a fair amount on the 4WD to push it out of corners. It's been a while since they were on the car, but when I was on the Potenzas I could get away with quite a lot thanks to the 4WD. In contrast, the Michelins are probably more balanced tyres overall but I sort of do miss the more extreme grip and slightly heavier steering that the Potenzas gave me, which in a way compensated for the car's nose-heaviness. I must say that the hydraulic steering of the BL, although possibly a bit light compared to other cars, is actually still my favourite (or at least a benchmark) as a daily driver/family sedan out of all the cars I have ever driven in terms of weight, directness, immediacy, and balancing (i.e. knowing how much to turn to go exactly where). Obviously I'm biased as we have had this car for 15 years so I know it inside-out, and I use those qualifications since I don't think it's fair to compare it to the steering on the 60's Lotus Elan or the 2016 California T that I've driven. I do think it is interesting that in some ways I really appreciate how proportionate/balanced it is, even when I get out of my BRZ and into this car.

While we are on this topic I might as well talk about the gearbox. Here, the 6-speed auto in the E90 was overall superior to the 5-speed auto in our (2004ish hence first-gen) BL in terms of ratios (well duh), but more noticeably shift speed. I agree with those who say that the pre-06 auto (assuming that their non-SI-Drive model is the same auto as mine) is "not great". Frankly, it's probably the weakest part of the car. The second-gen BL/BP auto may be better but I don't know. It may also be unfair to compare a 6-speed auto in a lower/under-powered car to a 5-speeder in an over-powered car? Regardless, this does affect handling, noticeably in favour of the 330.

In this category I would, I am quite certain, choose the 330 over the H6 BP.

Comfort for long trips:
Given that I can get from one end of HK to the other in around an hour or so, it's hard to say. But I would say that the BMW on the non-M rims was alright but not great. On the M rims and with the P-Zeroes the ride was I think better but with much more grip. The BL was similar with Potenzas and then the Pilot Sport 4. I think on both with the Pilot Sport 4, the BMW was quieter on the highway and overall, and felt slightly less "nervous" at higher speeds. Bump handling similar in both, perhaps slightly better in the BMW but that may have been because the BL had STI kit and/or I used to drive it like a nutter whereas the 320, less so.

I don't think it's particularly relevant for me to talk about sound quality since my BL has a McIntosh (or rather rebaged Clarion) setup, which I changed the tweeters and sub of a few years ago as the cones cracked due to age (OK to be fair the sub cone got wasted since I was blasting Deadmau5 too loud one day. Seriously :lol:). Suffice to say that the audio in the BMW was fine, and seemed better tuned for voice/vocals, while the BL's setup was clearly more instrument-focused and aggressive, hence great for more aggressive genres such as Eurobeat/metal/etc.

Might as well talk about interior/luxury. To me the BL's interior actually still looks really, really good and modern and high-quality. Basically like a more understated yet slightly more fashionable (i.e. some Japanese flair) mid-2000s VAG car. You will find that the door grip fades and in some of the older ones the dashboard would crack after prolonged sun exposure. For the former I bought some leather wraps off ebay and they are fine, for the latter, a few years ago we bought a new dashboard from Subaru for GBP1,300 or thereabouts. The non-GT models don't have as nice an interior overall but it's still pretty decent. I didn't actually find the BMW's interior much nicer (if at all) and I think the graphics on the stereo and the climate control system hasn't aged as well as that on the BL's, even though it may have seemed more avant garde at the time. However, there was definitely nothing wrong with it. One thing to note however is that I notice the button graphics (e.g. START, climate control) in our BMWs (esp. our 523) also scratch much more easily, I think due to my mother's nails. Whereas we have had no such issues in the BL.

In terms of seating space I think they are about the same. It may perhaps be slightly more comfortable at the back in the 3-series for adults but it's hard to tell since I hardly ever sat/sit in the back.

Overall I would give the 330 a slight edge over an H6 Legacy, unless the latter comes with a great stereo which allows you to listen to exciting music at high volumes and you place a major premium on that.

Reliability:
This is hard to say since, as I have said, HK is a very small place so the Legacy hasn't even done 40,000km even though it's a 15 year old car. I think the BMW did around 20,000km in 10 years? Having said that, the terrain is tough on our cars because I live on HK island (which is quite hilly) and there aren't many highway runs. We also maintained our cars religiously and send them in 2x/year to Subaru and 1x/yr to BMW for oil changes and services (both being the recommended intervals here as we never did enough km per year or half-year to hit the "change by Xkm" limit).

Generally speaking, it's also easier and cheaper for me to get Japanese parts because I live closer to there than Europe. And while BMW is a luxury brand your proximity to Germany and the less niche nature of the 330 might well make it easier to source cheaper BMW parts and decent specialists if necessary.

On the BL, apart from the dashboard crack which was cosmetic, we did change the front Bilstein shocks on it I think 3-4 years ago, which was alright given how long they'd lasted and hills, nutty driving, etc. No major issues or servicing problems with the BMW that I know of or remember at least once we got rid of the shitty runflats (which amusingly enough I think we may have done as a nail went into one which then went... flat...).

I think in this category I would be tempted to call it generally even but with a slight edge to an H6 Subaru as you're less likely to drive it everywhere like a nutter?

Fuel economy:
Can't really say how the 2 cars you are looking at would compare. Our BL is thirsty but again, what do you expect if you drive it like a nutter up a lot of hills. Subarus are not known for being fuel-efficient anyway esp given the 4WD. The 320 was probably slightly more economical but not THAT much more given the hills.

My guess is that the 330 would be slightly more economical. Also, the newer the engine perhaps the more likely you'll be able to run it as we approach phasing out of anti-Euro IV, V etc. standards?

EDIT: Clarified roll/sway and also rebadged Clarion rather than Denon. Because 2am post.

[Yw-slayer]

Other options:
Don't bother with the Stagea, you already have an FD and now you want something reasonably reliable which isn't an arse to find parts for!

For minivans I would seriously suggest you think about a secondhand S-Max Titanium with the 2.0 Petrol turbo. It's what we have and it shifts, although it is noticeably heavy and hence thirsty. However the pull is very notable (esp after we replaced the Primacys with the Pilot Sport 3, may try and get the 4 next time if it's available in size). It also has 7 seats, inc a second-row of 3 seats which 3 adults can comfortably sit in no problems as they are all exactly the same chair and almost all exactly the same legroom, as well as a decent-sized boot. The steering is also not bad... for a minivan, then again it is basically a slightly wider, taller Mondeo platform.

The only things we have found to be aware of are some earlier stereos (like mine) had a problem where the bluetooth would drain the battery (obviously got fixed). There is also a power steering issue which Ford wanted GBP8K to fix (aka change the entire PS system) and which you can read about on the forums. However an independent managed to fix (so far OK for 2 months touch wood) for GBP530 (i.e. Less than one tenth what Ford HK quoted) . If it lasts us a year after that fix then that's good and it means we won't have to buy something else to replace it (it was looking like a Serena e-power but anyway).

Anyway that's it from me, and thanks for indulging in my GNJ-length/quality posts - which I had to split into 2 parts as I busted the 10,000 character limit. :lol:

EDIT: Originally said the independent fixed the power steering for GBP5.3K but it was actually GBP530 (aka less than 10% what Ford wanted to fix it). The figure has now been corrected.

[samoht]

Thanks, great stuff. I was sitting here imagining how the E91 might handle compared to the Legacy, weight distribution and so on, so it's great to hear from someone who's spent significant time driving both.

I'll consider MPVs I guess, S-Max seems perhaps a bit bigger than we need when it's mostly just one/two of us plus luggage or bikes. And £5300 to fix the steering?!? I could have the FD engine rebuilt for less...

Due partly to Atsuko's preference, I think I'm starting to lean towards the IS300 SportCross. There are a grand total of two (2) for sale in the UK currently, but seem to have a decent rep for reliability.

[Yw-slayer]

Sorry, my bad as it was around 2am. It was around gbp540 (hkd5400) to fix the steering, not gbp5,300! Have fixed the post. The difference in price was probanly because the dealer seems to have suggested just changing everything (with S-Max parts which would have to be ordered from Europe) while obviously the independent somehow fixed it by changing a few things here and there with off the shelf parts. It's also difficult to compare car and maintenance prices directly with those in the UK. But it is apparently a somewhat common fault in a car that you won't buy. ;)

On that note, I only mentioned it as you mentioned minivans, but yes, it is a bit big if it's just the two of you, unless you lug bikes/luggage everywhere all the time!

The IS300 SportCross is cool and my totally uneducated guess is that it should be reasonably reliable and somewhat fun to drive. I don't think it's that large inside, but in most ways it's probably more of a direct competitor to the E91 than the H6 BP is!

[Leon]

Of your initial list, I'd be going Subaru 6. They're a good engine, and a relatively low drama vehicle.

If you're after a daily, I'd go Japanese not Euro. Just for general reliability point of view.

[Yw-slayer]

I forgot to add that the BL has the best aircond of any car we have ever sat in, which is pretty amazing for a 16yo car. Ice cold from the start even if its been sitting in the sun for hours in 30+ celsius weather. Its amazing even my Japanese car standards. I say this as while the Noah and the brz are better than the S-max by far, and also still a bit better than the 3 and 5 series initially, the BL has the best aircond out of all of them. This may be relevant to you given how hot it was during the UK summers of 2018 and 2019.

Oh, and if you are going to do some extremely light off-roading then (i.e. to get your mountain bike to the start of a trail and/or race), then unsurprisingly, I preferred taking the BL, even with the STI parts on it. It just felt a bit more happy doing that, even when it was on the Potenzas and the E90 was on its P-Zeroes (although that may explain a bit).

I was also once saved by the 4WD in a multistorey carpark. There was a hanging ledge which didn't have a barrier and I hence didn't see. So while the rear wheels fell off, I was able to get the car back onto level ground using, uh, the front wheels. Whereas it would almost certainly have caused some major embarrassment if I'd done that in the E90, let alone in the BRZ or the 5-series (albeit that there are reversing cams in both, so hopefully that wouldn't happen...).

[samoht]

Currently considering stretching the budget for a Merc C55 like this
https://www.gumtree.com/p/mercedes-benz/2004-mercedes-benz-c-class-c55-amg-5-door-auto-estate-petrol-automatic/1386064252
https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/z/~NkAAOSwj1hfhB9Q/$_86.JPG

There's a 2.5T Mondeo with 217hp that also looks possible, probably a hatch would do, don't need a wagon.

[Yw-slayer]

I really dislike that gen of Mercedes in every way, and it's also older than most of your other picks, although the 55 engine is a real machine. But it's your call! Also, it's a c class, so it should be pretty easy to find parts for, as with the 3 series.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm unfamiliar with all the suggested options so far..., but just wish to chime in that I kinda miss driving my 2007 TSX. Although it's not a RWD, but it's almost like my S2000, yet way more practical.

I think in Europe, it's just the Honda Accord? And it may not have as powerful of an engine, but you guys do have an ugly wagon version? ;)

Anyway, just thought that I toss in one more fun to drive, practical, and reliable option for ya.

[samoht]

Drove the C55 today... like it. I think I was expecting a three-valve 5.4L V8 to be a bit of a lazy lump, all low-down torque and reluctant to rev. Well no, when you find the kickdown switch it revs really well, soaring smoothly round the tacho. I think part of it is because being a cross-plane V8, it's fully balanced, unlike the Z's V6 which vibrates when you rev it. Gearbox, well, it's an auto, but I think I'll deal with it. At least it changed smoothly. Steering feel seems fine for what it is.

Some very minor rust around the rear wheelarches - it hasn't broken through the paint, just <1cm bubbles. Seems like nip-it-in-the-bud stage, rather than major surgery. A couple of rusty spots on the bonnet from stonechips. Generally car seems reasonably sound and has service history.

Bad points - it has the 'famous clicking noise from behind the dashboard'
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w203/496694-famous-clicking-noise-behind-dashboard.html
Plus the brakes don't bite that well, and have a weird feel when just pulling to a halt.
Also when I arrived the dealer had the bonnet up to disconnect the battery because the odo on the dash had just gone on the blink, and was then showing double the mileage (actual mileage of 130k is fairly well backed up by the service history).

Without any particular effort at negotiation the dealer offered to drop it from £9k to £8k. He'll also get the odo fixed. That's a good price for a C55, mostly they're £10-15k. The only other estate currently available is also £9k but is Cat C and in Northern Ireland.

I rang the garage that had been servicing it, they were enthusiastic about the car. I don't think it's been serviced as I would, I regard replacing broken springs and tyres individually as a waste of time, would always do all four. But I have to recognise that 'normal' people would consider that a waste of money. At least the garage said the owner has always authorised the work they bring up, stuff hasn't been skimped on.

I'm going to ring some independent Mercedes specialists around Cambridge tomorrow morning, try and talk through the issues above and get some idea of cost. Seems like it'll need the ventilation fixed (£500-800) plus likely new brake discs and pads. But I think I'm leaning towards buying it :)

[Leon]

My concern would be, it has a multitude of small niggles now, which may indicate that it might continue to have niggles.

Plus, also, in general, the saying goes that there's no such thing as a cheap Merc. If you buy it cheap, it's going to maul your wallet on a regular basis.

Daily in my world = Japanese or Korean car that you walk up to, and it just works.

[Yobbo NZ]

Plus as you mentioned, the owner has always authorised any work required when needed. That would indicate he had deep pockets as I can imagine fixing anything on a Merc wouldn't come cheap.
A daily to myself and Leon, would mean a Corolla or Yaris or something similar Japanese, boring yes, but you know it's going to start everyday and get you home again.

[samoht]

On reflection, I decided that (a) you're both correct, however (b) I'm still damn tempted anyway. It just seems like a really nice car, in the sense of a comfortable and deeply satisfying driving experience, if I could get it and keep it fully working.

On the warnings front, this guy bought a C55 for £12k, and then spent £15k fixing various issues with it
https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/2007-c55-estate-laundry-list.238190/

Also when I rang an independent M-B specialist near me for quotes/advice, the woman on the phone basically said, I've got a 2004 C180, it's terrible, one thing after another needs fixing and I've spent so much money on it I can't sell it (!)


In terms of alternatives, I'm reluctant to buy something slow, as mentioned. One issue with Japanese cars here is that they rust, so they aren't quite as great a long-term low-cost option as they are in Asia-Pacific I think. The IS300 I asked about has had an MoT advisory for rust on both sills, the seller mentioned one side has been patched up. So I'm slightly wary of that. There just aren't many small RWD estates any more, and those that there are are fairly old and high mileage.

I'm sure the AMG may have all those problems and more, but I guess I feel a bit more prepared to spend money on something with a V8. I mean if Lexus had done a second-gen IS300 SportCross and I could buy a newer one and feel confident nothing would go wrong, I'd probably do so. But nothing I can think of is grabbing me as really super-reliable, which is leaving me tempted by the Merc.

Anyway, still wracked by indecision, but just to share that I am listening to y'all :) Current strategy is to see if I can arrange a pre-purchase inspection of this car, and go from there.

[Yw-slayer]

I may be speaking out of my arse here, but I'm pretty sure that the E91 would be a good combo of reasonably quick (the 320 was actually ok, the 330 will obviously be much faster) and far more reliable than the C Class. Presumably it will have less problems with rust than the Japanese cars (perhaps this is due to owner treatment?) and parts won't be that far off the latter in terms of price and availability. It's also a newer model, I think, than all of the other cars. Plus that bmw straight six, while not the AMG V8, is truly an excellent sounding and revving engine.

[samoht]

Yeah, 330i seems like a logical choice, although I'm not as excited by it as the AMG.

Last night I also realised - the real "second-gen IS300 SportCross" is the RX400h. Practical, quickish (7.3s to 60), loads around from £5kish, and I assume very reliable. It's annoying, I really don't want an SUV, and yet the way the market's gone, there are a million of those and half a dozen estates.

[Kchrpm]

Because SUVs are just tall estates, and people have decided they want to sit higher to feel special.

[Yw-slayer]

Given its engine, an AMG C55 is certainly more special. However, he only reason to get it would be for that engine. My personal opinion (again could be talking out of my arse) is that that generation of C-Class is frankly really quite shitty in every possible way, save perhaps for parts being readily available.

At the same time, it's not like 330i E91s are common. I believe most of the E91s in the UK are 320d to 330d models. 330i estates should be far more rare, and can only become rarer as the years go by. I really think that history will look kindly on a neat 330i estate. You might get a few more enthusiast kudos for maintaining a C55, but you will definitely pay for it.

It's a pity there was no CLS55 estate, and that a CLS63 estate would clearly be far too expensive to buy and run. Then again, I borrowed my friend's CLS55 for a while and it was a hoot, even though you could actually see the fuel needle move when you floored it.

You are, I think, right about the RX400h. I don't think it's actually that large in the back, but there are a lot of them around so parts shouldn't be too hard to find.

[samoht]

Well, have arranged a pre-purchase inspection of the C55 at a widely recommended Southampton specialist on Monday. So then I'll be able to make a more informed decision.

So, I respect that it's all a matter of opinion, and I appreciate that you're willing to post differing opinions here - forums can easily fall into groupthink. FWIW, I like the S203 C-Class because
- I like the looks, it looks sleek and curvy and has a visual lightness of touch that most Mercs don't
- They're one of the first Mercs with a proper rack and pinion steering, rather than vague recirculating ball - this is when Merc started thinking about handling
- Build quality, while not the best, apparently took a big step back in the right direction with the 2004 facelift after Merc realised what damage their biodegrading bodywork was doing their brand
- Driver's seat seemed comfortable, at least on short test drive, can imagine driving long distances

It's not as good handling as an E46 M3, but as a complement to a sports car it seems pretty decent. I prefer the looks over the E91.

So I guess in contrast, to me it's a comfortable "luxury" car that's compact yet practical, with RWD, that's then lit up by that engine.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not really sure what's happening in Europe, but in the US, used car market has been heating up due to new car production bottlenecks, and also additional folks who weren't driving before suddenly decided to drive their own car now due to the pandemic...

So if you've found something you like, better snatch it up quickly! :p Hope the inspection goes well.

[samoht]

Indeed, it's been the same here over the summer. My sister lives in North London, has never kept a car, but now borrowed my parents' Golf because she found the lack of transport rather limiting during the March-May lockdown.

I think however here that the rise in demand here has mostly been for cars up to ten years old, where non-car-owning people decide they need personal transport. The kind of person who chose not to own a car until now probably doesn't overlap that much with the kind of person who wants a 16 year old car with a 5.4L V8.

So that did cross my mind, however as far as I can see there's not been significant movement in older enthusiast cars. The dealer's had this car since July, hence being happy to knock a grand off.

[Yw-slayer]

Alright mate, I hope it goes well in whatever way you'd like. Yes, the looks of the Bangled 3 series can take a bit of getting used to.

I don't think this forum would descend intok group think as it's quite different from M most other car/Internet forums, but I think I know what you mean!

[Leon]

Yeah, 330i seems like a logical choice, although I'm not as excited by it as the AMG.

Last night I also realised - the real "second-gen IS300 SportCross" is the RX400h. Practical, quickish (7.3s to 60), loads around from £5kish, and I assume very reliable. It's annoying, I really don't want an SUV, and yet the way the market's gone, there are a million of those and half a dozen estates.

I was looking at the 400H's also, but then went diesel for better ability to tow the rally car. Those and the Toyota Harrier are basically just a tall Camry stationwagon :)

[samoht]

"I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole" was the verdict on the C55 - a few expensive things wrong, question mark over the mileage, and rust underneath at the back that looks similar to what cost another owner £3.5k to sort. Just not a good example.

With them being so rare I may well not find another, so back to considering BMWs and Lexuses.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Good thing you checked!

[samoht]

The solution to any problem is to throw more money at it, right?
https://www.neweraimports.com/listings/AMG-C55-Wagon.-Black-Edition.-362-bhp-normally-aspirated-V8.-
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/a82015_99c642e8322b4b15abf2ed50e6fe733a~mv2_d_4288 _2848_s_4_2.jpg/v1/fill/w_761,h_460,fp_0.50_0.50,q_90/a82015_99c642e8322b4b15abf2ed50e6fe733a~mv2_d_4288 _2848_s_4_2.webp
A snip at £17,700

[Crazed_Insanity]

Very nice!

But I wouldn't pay for it! :p

[Yw-slayer]

That does look neat.

[Yw-slayer]

You can get E63 and M5 wagons for that price or less. That said, if any of these go wrong the fix will be expensive. A friend imported an M5 wagon from the UK, sold it on, and the buyer said buying it was one of the worst things he's ever done. I have another friend with an RS4 (cheap one) that spends more than half the year in the shop and has been to every specialist in town. He's going to sell it and buy a beater Toyota Wish.

[samoht]

I've agreed to buy this car https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/2007-c55-estate-laundry-list.238190/ for 15k . Price is at the top end of the market, but it seems to be a car that's had a lot of money lavished on it getting it right, it really looks mint inside and out. Intending to pick up next weekend.

I ruled out going up a size to an E-class or 5-series, while I know they offer more horsepower and space for similar money, I really prefer smaller cars for a host of reasons and I don't have much of a use for the extra space.

I decided against importing a C55 in the end because the UK market cars are homologated as Euro 4 emissions standard, which is the requirement for most of the low emissions zones that are proliferating in this country and the Continent.

I'm really looking forward to it, my first V8 :-)

[Rare White Ape]

That's about as hot as a frypan that has been prepped to cook a scotch fillet steak at medium-rare and the guy cooking it is an expert at cooking steak.

[Yw-slayer]

This one sounds good. The previous owner has taken care of all of the expensive stuff, and I can see it maintaining its value and continuing to feel special for a long time. It is also going to be super-quick, given that the CLS55 I borrowed for a few weeks already felt super-quick (and could spin the rears going uphill in 4th gear, albeit in the wet). I approve and that's not something you usually hear me saying about Mercs of this era.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’d usually question the wisdom of buying a used MB, but I could very well be wrong just as I questioned Lewis Hamilton’s switch to MB... :p

Since you appear to really love it and it looks awesome and well taken care of... surly it’ll make you feel like lewis samohton for years to come! :D

[Leon]

I will both openly question your sanity, and say that I hope you have fun driving it :)

[Yw-slayer]

A 2.0 Legacy GT manual wagon could have led to Euro emissions compliant issues down the road.

[CudaMan]

Congrats samoht! Those are great looking estates. I hope it gives you a lot of fun, comfortable and realiable years. Is this your first German car? My E90 was my first, after more than a dozen Japanese cars, and while there has been a learning curve to some things it has overall been a really good experience and pretty solid. Coming up on 120k miles, but I am pretty sure I got a good car and it has good service history. Cost wise it helps that I do my own work with most things. Sorry I wasn't on the forum when you posted this thread, to give you more insights on the E9x experience, but it sounds like you found a car that fits your heart better anyway. :)

I was going to suggest looking at a Mk7 GTI 5-door because those things seem like an ideal everything-car for the enthusiast, aside from the fact they're FWD. :p

[samoht]

Yeah, I am a big Hamilton fan (to me he's the best British driver since Jim Clark), so while marketing isn't the reason for my choice the F1 link is a nice bonus. While there's no technical connection with the racing cars, the C55 Estate was the F1 medical car up to Lewis' first year of 2007, which is about as much competition heritage as you can expect for an estate car, Volvos aside.

I know this answer doesn't really fit the question I started out with of a "practical daily" in the thread title; I think sensible aspirations were overtaken by the more visceral appeal of a big V8. And if I'm not gonna sell the RX-7 anytime soon and only have space for two cars, I do want to take the chance to experience something else interesting. I've done the six-pot thing with the Z, so seems a good progression :-)

Yeah, my first German car, it seems to come to all of us as we get older! I've found a recommended Merc specialist not too far from Cambridge, so fingers crossed they will be up to the job and that I won't need their help too often.

[Phil_SS]

Brilliant! I've always had a thing for the AMG Merc wagons, so I am eager to get your impressions.

[CudaMan]

You're just channeling your inner American - practical and V8 go together like fish and chips. :lol: It's all about the space. I sold my daily 350Z for a similar reason. I wanted something with a bit more space and the ability to not broadcast everything we had with us on a trip.

I just realized you and I have had a similar car journey recently. Both of us have a classic 90s Japanese turbo sports car we love, and we sold our daily Zs for German comforts and practicality. You just do it all with more speed. :D

Also those AMG wheels are some of the coolest ever OEM wheels. :up:

[FaultyMario]

Cool car. It seems to have been owned by Cuda's long-lost doppelgänger.

[samoht]

Indeed, these AMGs seem very American somehow. How to make a performance car? Take the biggest V8 we have, and squeeze it into our smallest saloon. I do think the practicality makes sense, the seller had it as a partner to his 996 C2 that he's spent a lot on also, seems a great complement to a real sports car, so great minds think alike I reckon. I may have a little more horsepower but I'm not kidding myself that it would outweigh my deficit in talent.

Anyway, I collected the car this morning, big :) , new thread here http://gtxforums.net/showthread.php?2045-Samoht-Mercedes-C55-AMG-Estate