F1 2021

[FaultyMario]

Max is still kinda too new to rate

SRSLY?

[Crazed_Insanity]

To rate for ALL TIME? Yeah! We're not sure if he's peaked already or has more potential to fulfill, right?

You probably need to wait til the twilight of their careers to make a better judgment? At this point, he's obviously not at Senna's level yet, but I see the potential. I could be wrong of course.

[Blerpa]

Mansell was a Coulthard level kinda of driver who got lucky to win a championship.
Hakkinen, Lauda and Rindt were far superior to the english lion... heck even Jacques Villeneuve and Button were better drivers.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mansell isn’t on the top of my personal ranking as well of course, but do see his passion in it.. he’d go all in or as much as he can whether it’s the try to pass Senna or to try to win the Indy500…

I like Nigel more than JV. Considering JB kicked JV’s butt as teammates, JV is definitely at a lower ranking… but I think I’d rank Nigel a bit better than JB because he pour more heart into it. After all, he is called the lion. What do people call JB?

Oh, and I think Kimi is probably better than Mika even if he does have fewer championships under his belt. Kimi most likely could've won more had he been with McLaren during the right years...

Between Nigel and Kimi, again it'll be kinda hard for me to pick between them. One is hot and the other is cold and I truly love them both!

As for Lauda and Rindt, I just don't know them enough to comment.

[FaultyMario]

Much better!

Have you seen this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkGqjskhLAs

The only part missing is where Kimi tells Antonio that he can't use (professionally, I understand) the helmet he gifted him.

Both guys will be missed.

[FaultyMario]

"And then we got a motor race on our hands."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPIkUj0NCek

[dodint]

had

Once you start rearranging competitors on track for entertainment it ceases to be a contest.

[FaultyMario]

No, the significance of the new video is that it is the same phrase that was later used by Masi with Wolff.

[JoeW]

Well it's not verbatim...


Over the on-board radio, Wheatley suggested to the Australian: "Those lapped cars; you don't need to let them go right the way around and catch up with the back of the pack. You only need to let them go, and then we've got a motor race on our hands." Masi actually did exactly what Red Bull suggests and then told the Mercedes team boss: "Toto, it's called a motor race, OK?"

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLzYStZX0AA8Nnp.jpg

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/6AEANGD6/s1000/formula-one-world-champion-max.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZVpR3Pk-r8

[dodint]

**

[dodint]

Unlapping procedures were fine, they were just not followed.

SportsCenter mentioned this on their scroll today. "F1 Racing Director Fired. Red Bull Racing and Max Verstappen won at final race." Yup.

[Rare White Ape]

I do not support them removing Masi as RD, but I do recognise that his position was untenable in the eyes of the public (thanks to arseholes on Twitter and elsewhere) so the FIA's hand was forced. They basically couldn't allow him to stay because the voices would drown everything out until the next thing to get angry about comes along.

[FaultyMario]

Maybe it was untenable because the guy was inept?

As in, not apt for the job.

He fucked up more than enough times during his three years. There was a race that was cut short when a celebrity waived the flag in a manner different from procedure, and a championship result being questioned for not following SC procedure.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, glad we can finally put 2021 behind us.

[dodint]

I do not support them removing Masi as RD, but I do recognise that his position was untenable in the eyes of the public (thanks to arseholes on Twitter and elsewhere) so the FIA's hand was forced. They basically couldn't allow him to stay because the voices would drown everything out until the next thing to get angry about comes along.

Reading this is like finding out a friend is a Trumper or anti-vaxxer. It's like you've done your own research about what was plainly obvious and then chose to take the contrary opinion for attention. :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, Masi still has a job elsewhere in FIA. It's not like he's really booted out completely. Also, him being replaced is not due to some rumors/accusations due to non-job related issues. He clearly screwed things up on the job!

Wonder what's the reason behind RWA's support for Masi...

[JoeW]

His and others opinions about this have been discussed extensively in this thread. Just go back to the incident and read up.

[dodint]

And now even the FIA has weighed in and said, yup, that was wrong.

Blaming it on...Twitter...is where the hot take makes a wrong turn towards FAKE NEWS nonsense.

[JoeW]

Last shit is so last season…

[FaultyMario]

And now even the FIA has weighed in and said, yup, that was wrong.

Not only that, they've clarified that all lapped cars can pass the leader once the message has been sent thru the official service, which I think pages the drivers on their steering wheels.

And they've also said they're going to keep making tweaks to the SC procedure before the start of the season.

[Rare White Ape]

Reading this is like finding out a friend is a Trumper or anti-vaxxer. It's like you've done your own research about what was plainly obvious and then chose to take the contrary opinion for attention. :lol:

Hey at least I’ve been consistent with my stance on this topic. The reference to Twitter is a catch-all comment that covers the modern social media discourse. It’s effects DO have an impact on the way things are run these days. For the last few months in my occasional visits to the site a hashtag about firing Masi was trending more often than not.

I also lay a lot of blame on the influx of Netflix F1 fans who were attracted to the sport on the back of that shitty TV show.

And consider this: they’re replacing Masi with not one, but two new race directors, and adding a whole separate backup team in a remote role. What does that say about Masi’s workload last year? I think he’s just the unfortunate fall guy from this whole incident.

[FaultyMario]

Bah, Mercedes should have gone to CAS. Didn't it just take away one Tokyo medal from Team GB?

[dodint]

Hey at least I’ve been consistent with my stance on this topic. The reference to Twitter is a catch-all comment that covers the modern social media discourse. It’s effects DO have an impact on the way things are run these days. For the last few months in my occasional visits to the site a hashtag about firing Masi was trending more often than not.

I also lay a lot of blame on the influx of Netflix F1 fans who were attracted to the sport on the back of that shitty TV show.

And consider this: they’re replacing Masi with not one, but two new race directors, and adding a whole separate backup team in a remote role. What does that say about Masi’s workload last year? I think he’s just the unfortunate fall guy from this whole incident.

Do you think Whiting was just that good at the job and these 2022 changes would've been better implemented after his passing? Obviously, they could never know it was going to be this bad, I'm not saying that. Just curious how Charlie was able to do it but Masi fell on his face.

[Tom Servo]

Someone did counter me when I mentioned something like that by saying that we also have way more visibility into the process than we used to, like hearing Masi tell a team that they could voluntarily give up a spot in exchange for them not bothering to investigate and potentially penalize them more, so it's possible we just didn't know that Whiting was no better. I'm not sure I fully buy that, but it's an angle for sure.

[Rare White Ape]

Just curious how Charlie was able to do it but Masi fell on his face.

Everyone's going after Masi because it affected the outcome of the race, and therefore the entire championship. If this happened on lap 1, round 1, then nobody would give a hoot. There have probably been a dozen times where Masi made some kind of stuff up and nobody remembers it because they weren't as consequential. Whiting probably made errors of judgement too.

I should remind you once again that there was an agreement made among teams, drivers, organisers, etc to finish the race under a green flag no matter what. Everyone wanted to see the cars race to the finish. He delivered exactly that, it's what they all wanted. Should Masi shoulder all the responsibility for the agreement that everyone made?

[dodint]

Did they agree to move some but not all cars out of the way? To artificially change the running order to facilitate a show?

I am going to need a citation on that "agreement" to suspend the sporting regulations for the sake of finishing under green. If that is true there would be a procedure in place, like NASCAR overtime.

Yes, I would be pissed on round 1 lap 1. Similar to the way I was pissed when Hamilton took to the pits after passing the pit entry bollard a few years ago. It was wrong and permitting it was bullshit.

I am both a road racing official and a lawyer. Rules have a purpose. Whether you think they are fun or not.

If this were a matter of opinion I would simply ignore your ramblings. But we are discussing the objective breaking of sporting regulations. Until you come up with a fact and rules based argument you're just pissing into the wind and at this point you're quite soaked.

[Rare White Ape]

Actually this IS a matter of opinion. I've never once disagreed with the fact that the rules were twisted (I would not say 'broken' because there was always the factor of the Race Director's discretion being put into play) and what happened in those last few laps was complete bollocks. We are merely having a discussion on my opinion that he shouldn't be fired, and we are getting dragged further into the weeds.

Regarding the agreement:

In the last couple of years there has been a general agreement with the teams that the Race Director should always endeavour to have the race ending under green flag conditions, even if only for a lap or two

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.unpicking-the-safety-car-period-that-turned-the-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-on-its.7rTWOXxJ5lpvg38nrCYfM3.html#:~:text=In%20the%2 0last%20couple%20of%20years%20there%20has%20been%2 0a%20general%20agreement%20with%20the%20teams%20th at%20the%20Race%20Director%20should%20always%20end eavour%20to%20have%20the%20race%20ending%20under%2 0green%20flag%20conditions%2C%20even%20if%20only%2 0for%20a%20lap%20or%20two

[Rare White Ape]

And I found something that echoes what I said, but uses more and betterer words. Plus you had a dig at me for mentioning Twitter and this presents basically the same argument: the public perception of F1 was weakened due to the notion that it removed the fairness from the sport.

Have a read, it expands on my opinion quite well.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/02/18/making-sense-of-masis-formula-1-demise/

[Tom Servo]

I agree with most of that article, and also I try to make it a point not to put more weight on things that happen at the end of a season than all the things that happened throughout the season. Just because it happened near the end doesn't mean it was the deciding factor, the whole thing adds up to a whole.

That said, I feel like there were a lot more issues under Masi throughout the season. I'm perhaps being unfair as this article points out in a couple of ways - Masi had to be dropped into this role without a mentor so he's learning on the job, and we're getting more (possibly misleading) visibility into the job.

I think having two race directors is a bad idea overall, but if they're going to do it, I'd think they should keep Masi on as one of them. But the season maybe halfway through started to feel like this constant stream of one guy getting away with one thing while another got penalized for essentially the same move, miscommunications, and ultimately ended with what happened at Abu Dhabi. The feeling I got from race direction was a wishy-washy lack of commitment to setting the rules throughout the season, that penalties were inconsistent both in whether they were applied and how penalizing they were. And I don't think he necessarily made the wrong decision at Abu Dhabi, but it felt like another instance of the teams just not knowing what was happening until it was too late, which felt like a similar lapse of communication that lead Hamilton to ram into the back of Verstappen in the previous race.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The entire season was mired in controversies and inconsistent calls… Masi fucked up. Mercedes and Ham also felt like the RD was perhaps favoring Max? Whether true or not, this possibly needs to be removed.

If we need a final green lap, just drop the green and let them race…, or get rid of all lapped cars…, or just red flag it and then restart the race…

Sure, I don’t mind RD making calls but he needs to make fair calls.

There were just too much unfair inconsistent calls and that last lap was the last straw for a lot of folks on Twitter.

I’m a Max fanboy and was pulling for him to win, but even I thought that last lap thing was unfair to Ham.

[FaultyMario]

Michael Masi actually didn’t break the rules, he applied them in a way that hadn’t been done previously

:lol:

[FaultyMario]

I'm a national-level SCCA specialty chief and I've seen good and bad race control at my level. To see it at what is supposedly the top level is very disheartening. To have them not address it is likely terminal to my desire to watch it ever again.

Fully addressed now. Matter wrapped.


Mercedes’ protest was rejected and Verstappen’s victory was upheld. However the stewards acknowledged in their verdict that article 48.12 of the 2021 regulations “may not have been applied fully” at the time.

The article stated that: “If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message ‘lapped cars may now overtake’ has been sent to all competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.”

In the corresponding article in the 2022 regulations, 55.13, the word “any” has been changed to “all”. The rule now reads: “If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message ‘lapped cars may now overtake’ has been sent to all competitors using the official messaging system, all cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.”

[dodint]

Oh, well then, they've really fixed it up haven't they?

(Nothing changed, the operative word is 'required', any/all convey the same quantity)

[Crazed_Insanity]

If Masi truly applied this 'any' rule to the letter under such pressure, then he has really done an amazing job.

However, surely the spirit of the rule wasn't to just ensure the #1 and #2 cars can race together til the end. The word 'any' should also include all the lapped cars behind the #2 cars as well?

Anyway, future RDs and rules just need to be fairer and more consistent in order to fix future problems.

[CudaMan]

Oh, well then, they've really fixed it up haven't they?

(Nothing changed, the operative word is 'required', any/all convey the same quantity)

I suspect that going forward we won't have the situation where some cars are more 'any' than others. :p

[Rare White Ape]

I thought this was over, but more things have been revealed by the FIA:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/fia-abu-dhabi-report-finds-masi-broke-rules-in-controversial-f1-finale?fbclid=IwAR3jrNUiMHHY6jg8v2s8I6KDzVP8Y6DU-gPUj4PdElKvmob1at2gm56uJ4M


Whilst not directly blaming Masi for the incident, FIA conceded that the regulations were not followed and that “human error” led to the fact that not all cars were allowed to un-lap themselves.

As a result software will now be used to reorganise the field at the end of a safety car period, and the rules have been changed to require the entire field to become unlapped before the end of a safety car period.

The governing body asserts that Masi “acted in good faith”, as the race director had previously agreed with teams to end races under green flag conditions if at all possible on such occasions, but implies last year’s Abu Dhabi race may not have been such an instance.

The report now finds that Masi DID break the rules. Since I am not an expert I can only agree with that.

But I am still of the opinion that he should have been kept on as one of the race directors.

[FaultyMario]

Much better!

I've got news for you:

https://storage.kawasaki.eu/public/kawasaki.eu/en-EU/racingNews/Kawasaki_MXGP_Factory_Racing_Group_Pic__shotbybavo _DSC_5736__LC_.jpg


Responsibility for the official Kawasaki Racing Team MXGP racing activities passes this year to the long-established team set-up headed by ex-GP winner Antti Pyrhonen on behalf of team principal Kimi Räikkönen; the F1 legend has been a life-long motocross enthusiast and, following retirement from his own racing activities, he will devote more time and his extensive strategic experience as Team Principle to Kawasaki’s challenge for the FIM World MXGP Motocross Championship title.

[Ashie]

I've got news for you:

https://storage.kawasaki.eu/public/kawasaki.eu/en-EU/racingNews/Kawasaki_MXGP_Factory_Racing_Group_Pic__shotbybavo _DSC_5736__LC_.jpg


Excellent!

[CudaMan]

"I'll leave you alone you know what to do."

I really never pictured Kimi in this role!