Stolen off tw°tter: What car* deserves a rebirth?

[FaultyMario]

So maybe a car got a remodel that ruined it or maybe its market died out, but what concept that was embodied in a car needs to come back?

I'll start:

Type 181
There needs to exist a car that is low-maintenance, capable in soft-roads and can seat 4 adults with the top down.
I think VW could do it, they have a wide enough portfolio of brands that could give it shelter or even start a new, gen-z focused offshoot. Like what Mercedes did with Smart. Or what Suzuki did with the Jimny.

CRX
I think the pandemic has demonstrated that there is space in the market for a lightweight, low-emissions grocery-getter. Not all people want or wish to pedal short distances, and that's fine.
IMHO the problem with the CR-Alpha was that Honda tried to make it "fun". One shouldn't lade projects with subjectives; and because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so are many other adjectives, let the car fulfill its goals and then, let its buyers and users show the way to "fun".

[neanderthal]

I feel like the Honda E could've been the electric CRX redux if it wasn't busy trying to be cute.

[Godson]

Chevrolet Corvette...

[MR2 Fan]

My obvious choice is Toyota MR2...HOWEVER I doubt it would resemble what most MR2 fans would want, something akin to the first or second gen one. Also, it's difficult to justify in the current lineup with the 86 and 4 and 6 cylinder Supras already being offered.

There's rumors there could be a hybrid version, but an MR2's also been rumored for a decade.

[Rare White Ape]

It seems like such a no-brainier to us to make a new MR2 with Corolla parts that they must know that it’s not a profitable exercise.

[FaultyMario]

Chevrolet Corvette...

:handinchin:

[Kchrpm]

Chevrolet Corvette...

I thought it but didn't say it.

[FaultyMario]

it’s not a profitable exercise.

I'm going to go off in a rant and blame it on Steve Jobs.

Nah, not really his fault, but of the economic shift to services (and to other gradual movements in society, in general).

I think that nowadays society assigns values to cars in the sense that they are mobility services and symbols of status. Think of SLM's flower shop van, the service that he needs is so niche that there are no ready-made offerings for him. But most people don't need a car with a cot and a shower. Most people don't need a car that can transfer road surface sensations and deliver a dynamic driving experience, either.

Buyers want comfort, isolation and amenities.

And so the price/value (and hence profit for automakers) is derived from how society values comfort, isolation and amenities. So in order for a hypothetical MR2 to be profitable it would have to be the original one and at the same time be a Kia Sorrento.

[samoht]

The VW Thing seems a bit of a one-off to me. There have been a few convertible SUVs - Nissan Murano, LR Evoque and VW T-Roc, plus the part-convertibles of yore with part fabric roofs. So I'm not convinced it's a goldmine market niche just waiting to be exploited.

A new CRX would be great, the issue is the motivation. A petrol engine isn't exactly low emission by today's standards. They did the CRZ as a hybrid and it didn't seem to work out. And a battery car would be heavier and more expensive than I think is the CRX's original role. Having said that, if they do a coupe on the E platform, and style it like a modern CRX, that would be cool I think.


Predictably I'd love to see a new RX-7. Porsche has had the middleweight sports car market to itself for too long, and the RX-7 has a real heritage to build on.
Realistically the only way to get a rotary to market would probably be to be as a range extender, where emissions and durability concerns can be managed. Since Mazda are working on doing this for their electric crossover, one could imagine a ~400hp sports car with electric drive, a smallish battery and a rotary to top it up. Possibly build it on the ND MX-5 platform as making it small will be the only way to keep it light.

I could see it working, but realistically I don't think Mazda have the capacity to do this right now.

[Yw-slayer]

Lancer Evo.

[FaultyMario]

Another problem is there's only four or five companies that could realistically open up a new market niche or revitalize a dying one.

[TheBenior]

If this is about what would actually be viable in the US market, I'm going to say nothing. If cars are viable in the market, they stick around or their need is fulfilled by other vehicles.

But, if we're talking about personal dreams, or an automaker making a car out of sheer stubborness or because they still want a halo/purity car (like the Miata, or like Mitsubishi somehow still existing in the US passenger car market), I'll second the Lancer Evo and RX-7.

[JoshInKC]

Mitsu remaining in the US surprises me like every year - I drive by some random dealership and go "Huh? Guess they're still around." The Lancer I drove as a rental a few years ago was so utterly terrible that I was shocked it was actually available to consumers.

[neanderthal]

Mitsu remaining in the US surprises me like every year - I drive by some random dealership and go "Huh? Guess they're still around." The Lancer I drove as a rental a few years ago was so utterly terrible that I was shocked it was actually available to consumers.

Be grateful you drove that and not the Mirage. What an awful little penalty box.

[neanderthal]

RX7 and Lancer Evo are great choices. :up:

[FaultyMario]

you know what? I think Renault can pull off the Thing. their ancient B-B0 platform (Clio/Versa/Logan) could show up one day as a t-topped ute.

[Godson]

In all honesty.

I think a Porsche 944 based off the 86 and the 300hp 2.0 turbo flat 4 from the 718 would be a solid improvement to the basic car. Add an S trim for the 2.5l 350hp would be amazing.

[Jason]

S2000

Since I’ll never be able to afford a NSX :lol:

[MR2 Fan]

S2000 is a good choice, but it's another one of those, don't expect we'll ever see one with the same setup, 9,000 RPM redline etc....unless they can get a K24 engine to do those kind of revs reliably....that would be sweet.

I don't really like the new NSX anyway, it feels very "generic video game supercar" look to me.

[Godson]

Funny, because the OG was often confused for a Camaro, by the masses.

[samoht]

S2000

Since I’ll never be able to afford a NSX :lol:

S2000 would be great, and the rising values show there's a market out there.

I fear that a clean-sheet, bespoke platform FR roadster with appropriate nat-asp VTEC engine would be unlikely to appear from a manufacturer who's abandoning a successful F1 project to concentrate on zero-emission mobility.


Something that wouldn't be a second S2000 but could target the same market space would be a larger roadster based on the S660. In the same way that the Subaru R1 kei became the Prodrive P2 concept, you could potentially keep the basic S660 chassis and passenger compartment, but pull out the track and fit a larger engine, perhaps the 1.5T. Composite panels would keep fixed costs and weight low, 200hp would be plenty, the drivetrain would be carry-over Civic transverse fitment. Probably too cramped inside for the US market, but might win friends elsewhere as the Elise retires.

[George]

So maybe a car got a remodel that ruined it or maybe its market died out, but what concept that was embodied in a car needs to come back?

I'll start:

Type 181
There needs to exist a car that is low-maintenance, capable in soft-roads and can seat 4 adults with the top down.

Excellent choice. And once someone has the old VW Type I platform in production again, they could also build VW Sedans (Beetles), Karmann Ghias, vans/microbuses, and pickup trucks just like in the good ol' days. Heck, they could even make a Schwimmwagen! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Schwimmwagen)

And I suggest some modern car company shouldn't build an "all new design" with liquid-cooled engines and automatic transmissions and air conditioning and power windows and backup cameras and bluetooth and airbags and heated power leather seats and all that other bullsh!t but instead build them just like they used to be made, complete with straw-stuffed vinyl seats, metal dashboards, and drainage holes in the floors.

Air-cooled VWs were simple and durable and affordable. Let's bring them back just as they were. I suppose they could come with radial tires now but that's as modern (and complicated and expensive) as I'm willing to go.

For a more realistic answer, how about old-school Jeeps? Here is one from the present and one from the past:

The Mitsubishi Jeep
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_CJ#Mitsubishi_Jeep

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/1976_mitsubishi_jeep_15708393791f8cbe183b9G1bueRCV QsWWdLnFGAEA0w.jpg?fit=940%2C627

The Mahindra Roxor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahindra_Roxor

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/08/27/PDTF/402ca185-ba28-4854-ad12-139727158d7f-082619_Mahindras_at_farm_6.JPG?crop=2744,1543,x102 ,y222&width=660&height=372&format=pjpg&auto=webp

[Jason]

Funny, because the OG was often confused for a Camaro, by the masses.

I remember being at an auto show in the 90s, or early 00s, and overhearing a couple people talk about the NSX, saying “ugh, why did it steal the Accord’s taillights?”

I almost punched someone that day

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think Honda engineering has probably peaked during the 90's. Original NSX and S2000 were probably the culmination of their effort after their F-1 successes during the 80's. The new NSX is as good as their subsequent F-1 efforts. I also don't expect them to be able to update the S2000 that can beat the original.

IMHO, I don't need to see cars being 'born again'... quit copying hollywood studios too. Enough sequels already! :p

Be creative and come up with something new and able to blow your competitions away!

If I'm feeling nostalgic, I'll buy that used/vintage car and restore it.

If a model is discontinued due to low sales, I'd just let it be! :p

There are also legal aspect of it that could make rebirths impossible... take CRX for example, we can't possibly continue on it's light weight spirit and at the same time satisfy all of the safety requirements of today, right? After we beef up it's structures and added all the airbags, it won't be light weight no more!

[Jason]

“light weight” will always be relative. My car (FiST) is 2700lbs which is light for a modern car, and could have more shaved off with body style change.

The problem is, the FiST was discontinued in the US because no one wants small light cars in the US, so there’s no incentive to sell them here. Instead people want small CUV/SUVs.

Looks like the Honda Fit is discontinued in the US as well, so yeah.. CR-X revival has zero chance of happening.

[FaultyMario]

Instead people want small CUV/SUVs.

I think the Hyundai Kona/Creta is the perfect car for consumers of medium and high income countries.

And that is problematic.

[Jason]

Yeah, for the non-enthusiast these things are great… they are small, efficient, have decent clearance for pot holes, speed bumps, steep driveways, whatever, have decent storage space, comfortable enough to deal with imperfect roads, etc. Absolutely great appliances.

Sucks for enthusiasts though, because they are not at all engaging to drive.

[FaultyMario]

Not to mention these cars are "gleaming alloys, two lanes wide".

[MR2 Fan]

Funny, because the OG was often confused for a Camaro, by the masses.

wait what?

[Leon]

Lightweight special hot hatch, like your VW Golf Gti Mk1, CRX, Corolla GTi. So sub 1000kg, about 150hp.

Nothing fancy pants, or super powerful. Just small enough to chuck around at sensible speeds.

[Phil_SS]

And that is RWD.

[Leon]

it doesn't especially matter if it's FWD or RWD to me, you'll note all the above I listed are front tuggers ;-).

I've owned and raced every front rear four and mid variety, so I'm not really biased that way.

[CudaMan]

Have I mentioned if I had F you money I'd want to take a Mk7 GTI and put a VQ35HR up front and do a RWD conversion? It'd be so stupid but cool.

Also yes, MR2 should have a rebirth, there's something about cheap reliable mid-engined fun.

[Crazed_Insanity]

How much money is ‘F you’ amount of money? :p

Toyota probably should resurrect the MR2 and maybe have a fancy 4wd hybrid version with Prius electric power train in front and Corolla power train in rear… take as much advantage of all their mass produced parts as possible…

Of course they could also have a lighter rwd only version…, but the problem would be that could they make the updated MR2 better than the 86? Probably not.

So they’ll have to make this new mr2 cheaper. As cheap as a Corolla?

Probably won’t be a huge market for such a car… and Toyota probably won’t just do it for fun…

[CudaMan]

Yeah a new MR2 would either have to be stupid cheap or try to slot in between the GR 86 and Supra, a gap that is narrowing with the GR 86 price likely going up a bit and the 4cyl Supra being an option.

Either that or the MR2 becomes an electric/hybrid premium car at C8 level pricing and performance. But then is it really an MR2?

F you money is way more than I'll ever have and that V6 GTI project would be after buying 10 other fun cars and a garage big enough for them all. :)

[dodint]

The Maverick is what the new Ranger should have been. I was very let down when the Ranger was just a detuned F-150. That doesn't really help the thread since the Maverick is already coming to production.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wasn't Maverick a car?

I don't quite understand how Ford cars kept on getting reborn into truck and SUVs...

Just to save a few bucks with applying for copyright for the new names? :p

Anyway, I did think of an old car I'd like to see reborn... that's the DeLorean!

Maybe Elon Musk could bring a stainless steel sports car with gullwing doors back after the success of Cybertruck? Actually I don't need it to be called the same thing... just make it cheaper than the truck and call it the Cybertrackcar.