F1 2022 Season - "Big Wheels"

[JoeW]

Yeah I saw that and completely agree.

[JoeW]

If I had to pick a favorite spot of the track it would be the decreasing radius corner. I like that bit.

[FaultyMario]

My conclusion: These cars are fine for close racing, it's these terrible tracks that generate processions, we're just going to have to wait for the proper tracks for some good racing.

[FaultyMario]

This kid in the Alfa, he's so consistent, I reckon he should be driving for a top team in the near future.

[JoeW]

I see Willy T Ribbs is a bit of a close talker. The drivers were itching to get out of there. Sainz face when he started walking away spoke volumes.

[FaultyMario]

OMG, that was boring. It literally put me to sleep.

[JoeW]

I thought it was a good race. After about 15-20 laps when pit stops started happening. Some good battles in there.

I think it was Alonso who said “He turned down on me” when Brundle came on and said “It’s called turning into a corner”. That was hilarious.

[dodint]

It looked like an IndyCar street course.

[Blerpa]

It looked like an IndyCar street course.

And in a bad way.
Honestly Long Beach would have been better, IMO.

Also the post race CHiPs' shenanigans and gridiron helmets on the podium were terribly lame and tacky.

[JoeW]

Oh lord the helmets….so bad.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'd like to see him wear that during the race! He also should've been spraying milk all over the podium? :p

Anyway, I think my feeling for this race is kinda neutral. Not great, but not that bad either? Overtakes are definitely possible on this street circuit, as demonstrated by Max. However, the last time I felt excited about Miami was the time I was younger watching Miami Vice. Back then, I thought everything Miami was so damn cool! Not anymore though...

Hopefully the Vegas race will be better and more memorable.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSKr4OiWUAIDu1V.jpg:large

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSKuq_YXwAAFez3.jpg:large

7 x @F1 Drivers' World Championship 7 x @IndyCar Drivers' Championships 6 x Indy 500 wins Not a bad line up at all #MiamiGP #SkyF1

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSKuq_YXwAAFez3.jpg:large

7 x @F1 Drivers' World Championship 7 x @IndyCar Drivers' Championships 6 x Indy 500 wins Not a bad line up at all #MiamiGP #SkyF1

Jys 3 WDC, 0 Indys, 0 ACCRs;
JFV 1 WDC, 1 Indy, 1 ACCRs;
Mario 1 WDC, 1 Indy, 4 ACCRs;
Emmo 2 WDC, 2 Indys, 1 ACCR;
JPM 0 WDC, 2 Indys, 1 ACCR.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow, JPM has gained some weight! :p

[CudaMan]

Mr. Ribbs had me cringe laughing the whole time. :lol:


Watched the FP1 highlights. It looks like an autocross with walls. Jerky and no flow (with all apologies to Cuda).

A modern F1 car is a terribly inappropriate vehicle for autocross maneuvers. No offense taken!

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/f-1-miami-grand-prix-scores-more-viewers-18-49-than-nasca-rs-cup-race-at-darlington-151930224.html

Miami GP actually scored more younger viewers than NASCAR race at Darlington!

What we thought was a bad or so so race turned out to be quite popular in the US. Thanks to Drive to Survive?

[FaultyMario]

No changes were made to the circuit over the weekend but the chicane could be revised for future events.

Those sort of complexes are always very sensitive to kerb placement and the line, The chicane exists in order to slow cars before the next corner, turn 16, due to the lack of space for run-off at that point on the circuit. But I think with the experience of this year, we can tune it, we can look at car placement, we can look at how the corner entry works and so on.

The chicane and the entire event will disappear once its current contract is up.

Hyped up events like these, that are vastly oversold and then fail to deliver on the promise of "racing" will always fade away. Dallas, Caesar's Palace and Valencia are the norm.

I'm totally with RWA on this. Use the Daytona road course and spice it up with all the South Florida flavor you want, I believe there's more than enough space around that track to stage concerts, do meet and greets and sell all the merchandise in the world.

[Blerpa]

I'd be fine even with Long Beach instead of this crap.

Also, in general, fuck concerts, pools, DJ sets, cable cars, CHiPs and so on.
GET TO PROPER CIRCUITS. Get proper races.
City tracks, and chicanes, are the bane of motorsport.
And yes, Monaco and that idiocy called Macao do count.

[FaultyMario]

One can vouch for Detroit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1JuxgiPvz0).

[Blerpa]

One can vouch for Detroit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1JuxgiPvz0).

They would butcher it with stupid hairpins and chicanes... because they have to "slow them down".
Fuck it, let them race at original 1967 Silverstone layout.
"B-b-b-but it is a track with all fast bends! They cannot! What about the spectacle for casuals? What about the children?!?!?" and other lame excuses since the 90s and even before.

[Rare White Ape]

The raw, visceral IndyCar-style street circuits can stay. I fuckin love those tracks. Nashville's debut in IndyCar had its problems last year but it was still better than Jeddah and Miami in F1, and they will work on that for this year to improve things. I'm sure that it will be remembered as a great circuit in 20 years time, just like Belle Isle, Long Beach, Adelaide, Cleveland and Surfers Paradise.

For an example of a track going against the grain, look at Albert Park. It has always been a fairly sanitised version of a 'street' circuit, as it is built in a large multi-use parkland separated from busy roads so has smooth tarmac and wide grassy verges with big luxurious runoff areas. But for this year they used that opportunity to re-profile a lot of corners and even removed a chicane in order to make the track more exciting to drive. I don't know what the consensus of Albert Park being considered a 'proper' track is, but in my mind it does seem like an old-school classic by now.

[Rare White Ape]

* yes I know Cleveland was set on an airport runway, but I count it due to its temporary nature and how they have to set the layout according to what's available. And the FACT that it had one of the greatest turn 1 hairpins of all time.

[Blerpa]

The irony is that half the city and street circuits of old that we grow up deprecating are better than F1 latest ones.
And Cleveland rocked, even in sim racing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes! They need more tracks on airport runways for sure!

[FaultyMario]

The irony is that half the city and street circuits of old that we grow up deprecating are better than F1 latest ones.
And Cleveland rocked, even in sim racing.

Burke Lake Front was awesome. Albeit easy to get lost at first.

[Kchrpm]

The chicane and the entire event will disappear once its current contract is up.

I believe it's a 10 year contract. That's not a bad run.

While I understand and agree with all the hate for the shit street circuits, in F1 and Indycar, I am going to tell myself that these circus events are subsidizing the events at proper tracks. Something about getting more attention on the series and people interested who will then watch on TV because loud shiny things in person drew them in, regardless of the quality of racing.

I talked to someone that went to the Nashville race, which seemed like a godawful slog full of mostly caution laps as a TV viewer, and they thought it was awesome and had a great time. Which...I mean, if it's their first experience at all with auto racing, I guess I could see that? Maybe?

Whatever, more fans = good. Drive To Survive lead a long time friend to be so interested in racing that he's going with me to the IMSA Mid-Ohio weekend, and there are 4 or 5 people in my family and friend group that want to go to the F1 race in Vegas next year. All African-American, which is worth like five thirds gained fans each! ;)

[Rare White Ape]

Zak Brown is going to give Mario Andretti a spin in a 'previous' (i.e. not this year's) McLaren F1 car at the USGP in Texas later this year :up:

[Kchrpm]

He's still driving the IndyCar 2-seater regularly, I believe, so I assume he'll be ok. This should be quite different than when he flipped a car and landed on its wheels at Indy almost 20 years ago and took that as a sign to stop.

Ok, I have made myself ok with it.

[Rare White Ape]

Yep I doubt they’ll be anywhere near competitive laps, unlike the Indy test. Just an opportunity to get out there and stretch its legs a little.

[JoeW]

LeClerc just crashed Laudas Ferrari at Monaco. Wow.

[dodint]

Yeah, saw that on YouTube. It'll buff right out.

[FaultyMario]

LeClerc just crashed Laudas Ferrari at Monaco. Wow.

I think he just sealed his destiny. Charles just crowned himself the 2022 World Driver's Champion. ;)

[Blerpa]

3912

[Rare White Ape]

This is popping up on YouTube recently. It's worth 5 minutes of your time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0jHc68MvOk&ab_channel=SR16i

[JoeW]

Yep good watch.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oh wow, this is just a fan video? I thought this is like an official F1 video! :up:

[FaultyMario]

Mr. Ribbs had me cringe laughing the whole time. :lol:

Chuckie Baby! (https://open.spotify.com/episode/3im1F6uF4pnwBtmd8UKrvS?si=3w1jUUIoQVu1iTaDcJ6NxA&nd=1)

[JoeW]

Yeah please no more Ribbs for that task.

[FaultyMario]

Lots of update packages pics over at AMuS.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/mercedes-schicksalsrennen-gp-spanien-2022-barcelona/

Swipe left and right on the image at the top.

[Rare White Ape]

I love these pit lane setup day pics. Awesome.

[FaultyMario]

Mercedes fastest thru the speed trap.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting. Mercedes have gotten faster! Looks like Aston Martin copied RB too prematurely?

[FaultyMario]

Loads of updates! (https://www.racefans.net/2022/05/20/f1-teams-confirm-full-details-of-spanish-grand-prix-upgrades/)

[JoeW]

McLaren still looking like poop. Alpine, Merc looking great. Should be fun :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Loads of updates! (https://www.racefans.net/2022/05/20/f1-teams-confirm-full-details-of-spanish-grand-prix-upgrades/)

Now THAT is Formula 1!

It'll be interesting to see how they plan on enforcing the budget cap rule later on in the season...

How can teams not develop and update cars as the season goes on? Also, how can they not spend the money to fix up cars that are damaged?

I suppose these behind the scene team battles are better than drivers crashing into each other...

Probably easier to introduce a no update rule for previous winner or podium finishers? If you can get on the podium, then you just won't be allowed to put ANY update on your cars for the next race so that hopefully slower teams have a chance of catching up? Of course you can get your updates ready to go... once you finished below top 3, then you can update your cars to try to improve? Mercedes really should be allowed to freely develop at this point..., of course once you begin to dominate, then development will be banned?

They probably should also allow teams like AM to freely copy other designs. Once all the teams converge to near equal footing, then reset the rules so engineers can have some fun all over again! ;)

[FaultyMario]

Well, they might not need to enforce it, Horner has said that inflation is taking its toll on development.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No way! F-1 teams are also feeling the effects of inflation?!?!?

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah I saw Steiner said they don't have a budget cap problem, they have a budget problem.

[FaultyMario]

Charles is on another level. Ferrari are the only thing between him and his first WDC.

The W13 is probably the fastest car out there, but from the looks of it, she is a bitch about tire temperatures.

[Freude am Fahren]

Charles is doing great, but he's still mistake prone. He got away with it today, but if it's close late in the season, he definitely can't afford throwing it into a wall or gravel trap.

[FaultyMario]

Further elaborating on the Mercedes.

I think they're in a position similar to the one they had with the W04, back in 2013. Where they couldn't understand how to manage the tires for their car to be fast in the races. By the time they learned what they needed to learn about their car, at the end of the European season, they were consistently second fastest behind the Red Bull.

One difference is that back then the car was fast out of the box, with 7 poles in the first 10 rounds. Back then they got around their problems in round 13 of 19 (Singapore), now, if they can get everything working by the time they reach Silverstone (round 10 of 22), I would not count them out of the fight for the Constructor's Championship. I have a hunch reliability will remain a problem for Red Bull and that strategy will always be a problem for Ferrari.

[JoeW]

Yeah I think the RBR is just going to keep having problems now that they have moved the Honda to in house. They likely won’t be reliable again until Porsche gets involved. So Max will win every race he finishes but will only finish 75% of them.

Mercedes has too many resources to fail. This upgrade was huge and it’s working…unlike the Aston Bull. George is faster though. Brundle said it right today during Qualifying…the car just doesn’t talk to Lewis the way he likes. George is more precise with the new car.

I like Ferrari but as has been pointed out, LeClerc tends to make mistakes. He’s fast but his killer instinct just isn’t quite there compared to some of the other sharks in the pool.

I like that the Ferrari looks different than all the others and it’s the fastest. They dared to be different and it paid off.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I really had no clue what does it take to go fast, but the ‘looks good’ test usually works. I really thought Ferrari looks the best. Of course we can’t always count on looks, it’s surprising that AM is still as slow as before! :p

I do wonder perhaps if the new Ferraris are much harder to drive compared to last year? Both drivers were very closely matched last year, but this year, both drivers seemed to lose their rear ends more often than before.

Mercedes still looks hideously ugly to me. I really wish they’d revert back to the previous spec that they tested with during preseason testing… their new upgrades for their ugly spec for sure made them faster, but obviously still not fast enough!

Anyway, We’ll see how it goes during the race.

[JoeW]

I keep forgetting to comment on this but a couple of races ago they were showing some of the winning pit crew hanging out by one hand over the track as the cars went by. I’m surprised they allow that. One hand slips off the pole and that guy gets run over.

Ok I’ve finally remembered to type that out. Resume your normal conversation.

[JoeW]

Wow Hamilton wanting to quit. Sad. He needs so much coddling when he’s not in the front of the field. But once he’s talked down from the ledge he can still race. But having to talk the spoiled brat down is disappointing I’m sure.

Also sad that RBR knew they had a DRS issue yesterday and still can’t fix it. Just incompetence there. No one else having DRS issues.

[JoeW]

Omfg! LeClerc!

Also good dig by the announcer on camera coverage “George Russell goes by Valtteri Bottas, shame we couldn’t have seen it”. Hilarious.

[Kchrpm]

A strange race, that. Damn nice recovery drive from Hamilton after the first lap incident that crushed his spirit. Red Bull adjusting to a broken DRS getting Verstappen stuck behind Russell by switching to what turned out to be arguably the best strategy for the race.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Should’ve been an easy win for Charlie boy, guess you guys are right about Ferrari screwing up its own chances…

If only Sainz didn’t screw up and spun off track, he probably could win.

Max spun off track and still was able to recover a RB 1&2 showed that Mercedes probably still have a lot of development work to do in the future.

[JoeW]

You probably didn’t watch the race if you think Mercedes has a lot of work to do. They have officially arrived to the party. Hamilton had fast lap up until the last few laps. Russell was on fire up front.

Not sure if LeClerc had a guaranteed win because it was still quite early and he only had a 10sec lead. But he definitely was in the driver’s seat…har de har har

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, only watched the YouTube highlights… just thought that had the Mercedes been fast enough, after Ferrari engine failure and Max flying off track, George should be able to hold on to the lead and stayed there?

For sure Mercedes are improving but just didn’t think they qualified fast enough nor were they able to capitalize too much on their competitors’ mistakes…

Podium finish is better than nothing of course! :p

[FaultyMario]

You probably didn’t watch the race if you think Mercedes has a lot of work to do. They have officially arrived to the party. Hamilton had fast lap up until the last few laps. Russell was on fire up front.

Not sure if LeClerc had a guaranteed win because it was still quite early and he only had a 10sec lead. But he definitely was in the driver’s seat…har de har har

Barcelona is a 'chassis' track, and by the ways in which Russell was able to defend and Hamilton to attack, it seems their chassis is good.

Leclerc had it in the bag, me thinks; his lead was intact after his first stop, even though second place had not pitted yet.

[Crazed_Insanity]

‘Arrived the party’ or ‘Good’ as in good enough to occasionally win pole and races?

I just don’t think the defending champion team is in the position who win poles or races yet. If Ferraris and RBs suffered DNFs, obviously Mercedes’ is now best of rest. For sure they’ve improved with the new updates. Also at least Mercedes’ has been the most reliable so far. However, given the caliber or HAM and RUS, I don’t think the car is ‘good enough’ yet. Do you guys believe they are ready to win races?

[samoht]

LeClerc and Zhou's Ferrari engines both failed in the same place, on the run down from Turn 3. This makes me think the sustained high lateral load of Turn 3 could be the proximate cause of the failure - it's ~180 degrees at high speed and thus high downforce.


On the Mercs, the way the Red Bulls were all over Russell and easily outpaced him makes me think they're still not quite at the pace of the front-runners. However, I'm encouraged by the prospect of them being a factor in upcoming races and potentially competing for wins.

[JoeW]

If Hamilton doesn’t contact KMag then I suspect Mercedes could have had a 2-3 finish. Maybe a 1-2 since they had to creatively manage Max due to the DRS failure. But yes, had all things gone “normally” Merc probably doesn’t make the podium. But it would have been very interesting to see :)

[FaultyMario]

If Hamilton doesn’t contact KMag then I suspect Mercedes could have had a 2-3 finish. Maybe a 1-2 since they had to creatively manage Max due to the DRS failure. But yes, had all things gone “normally” Merc probably doesn’t make the podium. But it would have been very interesting to see :)

I saw it the other way, I saw it was an ever-so-slight chop towards the apex from Kevin -when it should have been obvious that a full car on the inside will probably slide out on cold tires-, a shame really, as He could have been fifth.

Also, on opening lap, the commentary team kept talking about contact between Perez and Russell, but I only saw a wobble from Perez when he got back on the throttle after he had been boxed in on T1.

[Kchrpm]

Watching the MAG-HAM incident, it looked like MAG pinched down on him to me, but I was fine with it being considered a racing incident.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hamilton's claw back after the contact was impressive I guess. He's now claiming he could have won if there's no incident with KMag. Wonder if that's really true.

Like I said, I didn't see the whole race..., but did Perez and Russell make any mistakes? Why did they both still finished so far behind Max, who drove off the track? At least Perez let Max go due to team order, but why did George fall so far behind the RBs? More than 30s behind the RBs without any mistakes was the main reason why I thought Mercedes hasn't 'arrived at the party' yet... Hamilton finished more than 50s behind, but at least he lost a lot of time due to tire puncture, right?

Lastly, I feel so bad for Perez. RB obviously doesn't want their #2 to become a championship contender to force a team order at this stage. Also, was Perez just cruising? Or had an extra pit stop for fresh tires to get that fast lap? How could he be 13s behind Max?

[FaultyMario]

Hamilton's claw back after the contact was impressive I guess. He's now claiming he could have won if there's no incident with KMag. Wonder if that's really true.

Probably true if Leclerc still dnf'd, no cars except his ran an efficient 2 stop strategy. Degradation was very high, but the Mercs have historically performed better the hotter it gets. I don't think Russell is familiar enough with the driving style needed to lengthen his stints, Mercedes style, so he should be at a disadvantage for the next couple of times when this happens.

Perez got shafted when MV was rage-pushing the DRS button* and the team did not allow him the swap, that probably lost him 1 second for every lap thereafter where he wasn't ahead of Russell. Not only did RB not let him sail past both MV and Russell, they really gave him a shit strategy for the rest of the race, with degradation so high, every lap spent on old tires after the optimal pit window was really costly.

*You can argue that it was Perez's fault for having fallen behind his teammate on the opening laps, but from most of the analysis of his driving I've seen, he tends to not punish his tires on the opening part of a race, which then allows him to do his tire magik on the latter stages. Also, it was still MV's fault for going off in turn 4 and then chewing up his rubber doing catch up. The team was very generous and protective to him.

[JoeW]

I wasn’t placing blame on the Ham/Mag contact. Just commenting about the contact in general. Had they not “come together” then it would have been a much different race. If I were blaming I would probably blame Mag. I mean wtf are you expecting to happen at the end of that corner? He probably should have just backed out and let it go.

And yes Perez has become the victim of “Number 2” syndrome. But seriously, was there anyone who thought it would turn out otherwise? Top teams always say they’ll let them race…right up until they won’t and Number 1 needs a win.

Hamilton also had the “luxury” of not really being in a battle throughout the race. So after he pit for the repair they knew he was just going to stay consistent and put down the laps. If he hadn’t been in contact with Mag then he would likely have 3 stopped due to being in the thick of it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I can understand RB is very Max centric, but Perez has thus far bagged a lot of points for the team! Even if it’s a Perez win, and the team let Max to get the fast lap, Max would still get the championship lead! Just a bit disappointing to see RB called for team order so early. I guess regardless of whether in reality or in our fantasy league, Perez just didn’t quite win sufficient confidence from his team bosses! :p I sincerely hope he does well and prove himself and not become another Bottas for the rest of his career…

As for HAM, I suppose if he is truly optimistic enough that his car could win races, then perhaps they really have arrived at the party? I’m really hoping for a 3 way fight!

[FaultyMario]

Hamilton also had the “luxury” of not really being in a battle throughout the race. So after he pit for the repair they knew he was just going to stay consistent and put down the laps. If he hadn’t been in contact with Mag then he would likely have 3 stopped due to being in the thick of it.

Yes, Hamilton was helped by not being in any direct battles with anyone in the first 40 laps. Also, TV direction was specially bad this weekend, i did not see why Mag lost so much time in the first 3 laps, did he not box immediately after his off road excursion?


He probably should have just backed out and let it go.

Not even that, their contact was so minimal that if he had kept to the outside, he'd probably gotten past the medium-rubbered Hamilton in the next sector.

[Blerpa]

That's what is in Perez contract. A clear number 2 role.
We cannot be surprised now, and he should not be either.
Does it leaves a bitter taste in his mouth? Yes. But that is what it is.
Also, Verstappen would have passed him anyway... he was faster.

He conceded, did a good team job and so cemented his good reputation with the bosses.
Probably in for a confirmation by end of summer.

[FaultyMario]

Also, Verstappen would have passed him anyway... he was faster.

The second time, yes, because Verstappen had been put on the optimal tire strategy and Perez hadn't. The first time?, nuh-uh.

That's really what pisses me off about Red Bull, they did not let them race to their fullest potential. By not letting Perez have a go at Russell when Verstappen was throwing his DRS tantrum, they clipped his wings and robbed him of the tire savings he had built up until that point, on free air, he then could have been advised to put the hammer down because by then they knew that the undercut was very powerful. We could have seen the best of both drivers, Verstappen's raw pace and Perez smoothness and see which of those two styles was the better. "Letting them race", does not mean "you guys are free to bang wheels", to me it means "ok boys, let's se what you got".

I guess I'm spoiled because that's what I watched in Champcar's heyday, same team but different strengths from different drivers.

[JoeW]

I forget exactly the situation but Perez couldn’t get past Russell either early on. The issue came when Perez came out with fresh tires and had the pace.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's what is in Perez contract. A clear number 2 role.
We cannot be surprised now, and he should not be either.
Does it leaves a bitter taste in his mouth? Yes. But that is what it is.
Also, Verstappen would have passed him anyway... he was faster.

He conceded, did a good team job and so cemented his good reputation with the bosses.
Probably in for a confirmation by end of summer.

Yeah, I guess I can’t say that I’m surprised, just saying that I could taste the bitter taste. :p

If Max had a flawless race and Perez was slowing him down in front, then that’d be more legit to use team order. If the team leader flew off track and has car issues and you still have to slow yourself down to let him pass is kinda stupid. I guess fortunately Mercedes’ were slow enough and Sainz also screwed up enough to allow RB to pull this off?

Anyway, Perez is definitely the best teammate so far.

[JoeW]

The announcers made a funny about that too...something along the lines of you definitely don't want to be called a "good teammate" ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

He's not just good, but the best so far for RB! :p

Kinda too new to rate against Bottas. ;) So far, I think Perez is definitely more consistent than Bottas?

I was really expecting Sainz to be the fast and consistent #2 to keep Charlie boy on his toes, but that has not turned out to be the case. Seriously though, LecLerc, Sainz and even Max are spinning off track way too many times, don't you guys think? These bouncing cars are probably just trickier to drive?

At least George Russell doesn't have to follow any team orders yet. :p

[FaultyMario]

I forget exactly the situation but Perez couldn’t get past Russell either early on. The issue came when Perez came out with fresh tires and had the pace.

the situation was that the team only have him one chance to pass Russell .

[FaultyMario]

I think Perez is definitely more consistent than Bottas?

These bouncing cars are probably just trickier to drive?


The cars are just too damn long. if they were shorter they wouldn't be the flapping sails they currently are.

imho Valtteri is a better driver than Perez, he is just too nice on track. No driver of his (or frim the previous) generation has arrived at recently moved-to teams to perform at the level that he has, both at Mercedes and Alfa.

[Freude am Fahren]

LeClerc and Zhou's Ferrari engines both failed in the same place, on the run down from Turn 3. This makes me think the sustained high lateral load of Turn 3 could be the proximate cause of the failure - it's ~180 degrees at high speed and thus high downforce.

LeClerc's onboard really sounded like a Turbo. It had that high pitch sound like a bearing seizing or something. Certainly could be G related, especially if it has something to do with the MGU-H and Turbo connection.

[JoeW]

Watching it over…

Perez spent the first 11 laps behind Russell and couldn’t get past. Max was way ahead of them until he went off on lap 9. Max came back on track behind Perez a few seconds back. Max caught them instantly and spent two laps being held up. So they let Max past Perez (who couldn’t get it done even with DRS over 11 laps).

Russell and Max pit on lap 14 which allowed Perez to continue by himself.

Perez pit on lap 19. Came out 9secs behind Max.

Perez on fresh tires caught them on lap 26. They gave Max 2 more laps of trying to get past Russell with no DRS and then brought Max in on lap 28. LeClerc engine kablooey on lap 27.

Perez pit on lap 38.

Max in lead by 17secs with 10 lap old tires. Perez on new tires. Russell 3 secs back on new tires.

Max pits on lap 45. Comes out only 5 secs behind Perez on 8 lap old tires with Russell 2 secs back.

Only takes Max 3 laps (lap 48) to catch Perez. Drops Russell who is now 9 secs back.

Max goes past on 49 with 17 laps to go.

Honestly watching it again I don’t see the problem. Max was clearly faster and on fresher tires. Don’t make either of them wear out their tires when they could clearly get a 1-2 finish.


They pit Perez on lap 54 for fresh soft tires to go to the end get fast lap (barely).

It was mentioned Hamilton pit twice but that is incorrect. After the initial tire damage on lap 1 he pit for soft tires. He pit on lap 23 for medium tires. Pit on lap 49 for soft tires. So he used 3 sets of tires beyond the damaged initial set. And never really had a battle with anyone until he blew past Sainz…then he had to let Sainz go…because hot outside.

[JoeW]

Confirmed turbo/mgu-h failure on LeClerc.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Thanks for the play by play JoeW! Yeah, if that we’re the case, I guess it ain’t that bad.

[JoeW]

I would like to point out that Russell is still very much in this WDC. With the typical Mercedes reliability, the current state of Ferrari and RBR DNFs/mistakes…Russell is only 25ish points out of the fight for the big trophy. This could get interesting. We aren’t even 1/3rd of the way through the season yet.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yep, George is the only driver finished with more than 10 points with every single race thus far! Mercedes must've been secretly very happy with him. ;) (Don't want to make HAM feel too bad as he suffered 1 DNF and 2 races ended with less than 10 points)

However, that might also meant that, statistically, Russell will probably suffer a DNF soon? :p

Anyway, I don't care which driver, it'd certainly be awesome to make this a 3 way fight. Mercedes is down but definitely not quite out yet.

As for the current contenders, Max has suffered 2 DNFs vs Charles' 1 DNF, yet Max is still 6 points ahead! LecLerc seems to only able to win when Max failed to finish... so if current trend continues, Max will probably be able to defend his 'title'. This might be the race that Leclerc beat Max on track, but too bad his car denied him the chance...

[JoeW]

This just in...

Max is now tied with Fangio on the all time win count. 1 win from tying Lauda and Clark. If he wins only 7 more this year he will be #6 all time...passing Stewart, Mansell and Alonso. Another 11 gets him past Senna. While passing Senna isn't likely this season considering RBR reliability woes, it is certainly "possible" by next season. Lots of weird shit can happen between now and then though.

Edit…just read that LeClerc is already on his final components in the turbo/mgu-h area and could face penalties moving forward. That sucks seeing how it’s only 6 races in.

[FaultyMario]

While passing Senna isn't likely this season considering RBR reliability woes, it is certainly "possible" by next season. Lots of weird shit can happen between now and then though.

Max Verstappen isn't likely to equal Senna's win ratio of 0.253, because he would need 17 wins from 15 GP starts. Lots of weird shit will happen, but let us hope it doesn't get that weird.

However, if Leclerc wins the WDC by Abu Dhabi, he'd done it with 102 GP starts, 39 less than Verstappen.

[JoeW]

Yeah luckily LeClerc didn’t have to drive for 6 years behind the unbeatable Mercedes.

I’d say the only reason Max could “possibly” accomplish some serious career records is because he started so early. If he races to the same age as some other older racers he will smash most of the participation trophies. Especially if they keep adding races.

But he’s a hard one to read. If he wins a few WDC will he retire “early” because he will have already raced for so many years or will he want to continue until his late 30’s?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Charlie boy is reminding me a bit of JV, just very lucky to be a right places and the right time... from Indycars to F1. Obviously he's good enough to be better than his teammates... from Vettel to Sainz, but I'm not sure he has WOWed me yet like Max has.

George Russell has wowed me more often in a Williams... and now kicking HAM's ass is pretty darn impressive too. But is George really that good..., or perhaps HAM is just getting old?

Looking forward to the future F1 seasons with these new star drivers... Not to mention others such as Lando and perhaps some other future lengends? I'm really hoping F1 will no longer have another Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton type of dominance with these rule changes... I don't need to see drivers break anymore records, I just want to see more closer racing! :p

[Blerpa]

Sebastian Vettel could retire by the end of the season.
Favourite replacements are Mick Schumacher and Fernando Alonso so far (who could be ousted out of Alpine in favour of Oscar Piastri).

[JoeW]

Yikes. Aston is a downgrade for nearly everyone on the grid.

[FaultyMario]

I thought he was going to milk it for as long as he could, but nowadays the guy seems more interested in things outside of motor racing, so kudos to him.

What happened with the traditional Monaco GP schedule, weren't sessions held on thursday, saturday and sunday? I was under the impression the race itself was part of some religious festivity.

[JoeW]

Irritating that F1 has backed down on jewelry rules. Fucking weak ass bitches.

[FaultyMario]

I think that issue came in tandem with the new fireproof underwear regulations. They can't properly enforce them because other series are underserved by suppliers, IIRC there was only one producer of the appropriate bras and they were having supply shortages.

Whilst it was a bit on the theatrical side in Miami, from Vettel (superman style) and Hamilton (wearing his three-watches), it was a way to bring attention to the problems racers in junior series were having. Remember kids, there's a lot of behind the scenes politicking with the FIA (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/may/26/former-formula-one-chief-bernie-ecclestone-arrested-in-brazil-for-carrying-gun-motor-sport).

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don’t know understand why drivers would want to carry additional unnecessary weight during a race and I also don’t understand why FIA would care enough to codify it. If a driver is stupid enough to wear 10 watches or pierce his or her body all over the place, should be their choice. Just specify what kind of safety gear to wear ought to be enough.

Anyway, Charlie boy looks fast again. Hope he won’t crash again.

New Mercedes’ updates doesn’t look promising here. Mclaren looks faster here.

[JoeW]

So everyone says the cars are too big and heavy.

If teams are struggling to get to the weight target at the current regulations then it’s not even a solution to just lower the weight limit. They’ll need another complete regulation change to reverse the current trend. So we are still years away from any sort of move to even begin to reverse the trend of bigger, fatter cars. Such a bummer.

[FaultyMario]

That was very amateur from Sainz.

[FaultyMario]

Mandate the cars to be shorter, they will immediately become lighter.

They are long because of aero reasons, there's no mechanical rationale behind their length. Because of all the forces pushing down, they also need to be sturdy, which means added mass, specially around the floor, because center of gravity. The cars can be made light already, but because they're so long they'd be all wobbly.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Shorter will help reduce bouncing too probably.

Anyway, the Mexican driver looks to be on fire! RB can probably only execute team orders thru bad pit strategies for Perez to fall behind max?

[Blerpa]

They will just ask him to move over.
He does not complies? A first warning.
He does not complies a second time at the next race? They will fire him.
And they will find a replacement in like two second time.

[JoeW]

All you really need to do is call him in for a tire change and accidentally take a few seconds longer than it should.

I don’t expect team orders here. Ferrari is just too much at Monaco. RBR will just let them race, take a 3-4 and move on to actual race tracks that matter.

[FaultyMario]

I don't think Monaco is a race where anyone can take anything as a given. My attitude, if i was there on a race weekend, would be to come and execute.

It's happened to the best when they tried to engineer something, so just go for the best result possible.

[FaultyMario]

Shorter will help reduce bouncing too probably.


That's my gut feeling, too. Last time they used ground effects, cars weren't the size of a Lincoln Continental.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This years cars must be really snappy in the rear, right? Are we seeing way more of them losing their rear end than before or is it just me?

[JoeW]

Well they have less downforce in slower corners than in previous years…which is basically all of Monaco.

[dodint]

That was very amateur from Sainz.

Is there a more disappointing driver in F1 this year? Dude is doodoo.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I thought Ricciardo just couldn’t catch a break… kept on running into younger super fast teammates… :p

[Blerpa]

So far, just a stupid useless mess.
Either they start already developing new regs for next cars being half the size or they get rid of this bullshit called "track".
Or otherwise just run again at Nordschleife and even add Targa Florio to the calendar: they would not be much more ridiculous than this.

[JoeW]

Word

[Blerpa]

2+ hours of my life wasted as usual for this "race".

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mick Schumacher agrees with you and cut the length of his car by half…, but then he couldn’t finish the race! :p

[JoeW]

Awww Perez crying on the podium. Good for him. He finally gets one.

With all the reliability issues and funky mistakes happening this year, we’ve got ourselves a WDC battle on our hands with the top 3 covered by 15pts.

Russell extends on Hamilton.

[FaultyMario]

That was very amateur from Ferrari.

There, fixxor'd.

[JoeW]

Wow, fixxor’d yourself :)

[JoeW]

Fuck sorry guys. Obviously I wasn’t thinking about spoilers.

[Rare White Ape]

Well I didn’t come here for Indy 500 spoilers. This is a fucking F1 thread.

How idiotic could you possibly be?

[Tom Servo]

Oof - yeah, that sorta fucks up my plan to watch Indy later today.

[JoeW]

I’m thinking Schumacher is starting to wear out any prestige that his name may have brought him.

[Tom Servo]

Did we ever get an explanation for the crash? It seemed like such a weird spot for the car to snap like that.

[JoeW]

It hit at the edge of a barrier.

[Tom Servo]

Oh, sorry, I meant the snap oversteer, not the snapping in half.

[JoeW]

Word

He mentioned something about getting just a little off the dry line and losing it. At the time I “think” he was one of the few on dry tires but I’m not certain. I do know Steiner is getting annoyed.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I really think these new cars are probably harder to drive than before? Way more drivers have lost their rear ends so far…

I’m also really happy for Perez! This year may be the year for him to win the WDC if Max has more DNFs…

[FaultyMario]

I hope Perez loses it to Leclerc by six points.

[Freude am Fahren]

Charles is on another level. Ferrari are the only thing between him and his first WDC.


Charles is doing great, but he's still mistake prone. He got away with it today, but if it's close late in the season, he definitely can't afford throwing it into a wall or gravel trap.

I stand corrected.

[JoeW]

Rumor mill says Ricciardo out at McLaren before season ends.

[FaultyMario]

Who do they pull, Isn't Piastri contracted to Renault?

Neither Herta nor O'Ward are serious options.

[JoeW]

The two mentioned were Piastri and Herta. Just a rumor of course. They even said Ricciardo was such a huge bust that they could continue paying him to sit and do nothing, pay another driver to get better results, and still come out better than they are now.

[Tom Servo]

Fuck sorry guys. Obviously I wasn’t thinking about spoilers.

Just for the record, it's all good, I ended up watching it anyway :)

[JoeW]

Yay! It was worth watching even if you knew the winner.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m too old to watch them whole 500 miles. At this stage of my life, m good with just highlight. Especially for the indy500!

Anyway, I really don’t understand what’s up with Ricciardo. I suspect it’s probably Lando being too good?

[JoeW]

The Indy 500 is over in a couple hours unlike the NASCAR Charlotte race which was like 6 hrs.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Even if they averaged 230mph per lap without any yellow flags, it'd take about 2.17 hours to finish a 500 mile race dude! Last I checked, the winner took 2 hours and 51 minutes to win the race! Way more than couple of hours! That's nearly 3 hours!!! :p

Anyway, did I mention I enjoyed watching Perez win? Thanks to Sainz being a good wingman for keeping Max at bay! Whew! ;)

[FaultyMario]

Does Perez's extension mean retirement for Alonso?

Gasly will not stay at TR, what would be the point? And I have a feeling Szafnauer would not miss the Spaniard much.

[FaultyMario]

I stand corrected.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUE7tHnX0AAM3KF.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Does Perez's extension mean retirement for Alonso?

Gasly will not stay at TR, what would be the point? And I have a feeling Szafnauer would not miss the Spaniard much.

Alonso could be at RB? Never saw that as a possibility.

As for Gasly, if you were him, where would you go? No room at RB no Ferrari nor Mercedes. McLaren and Renault maybe? But then again, if you were the team boss, would you really dump Ricciardo or Alonso for Gasly? Lando and Ocon is probably mature enough to lead now. Might as well save some salary money by hiring new young promising drivers.

[FaultyMario]

Alonso could be at RB?

Who said that?

[FaultyMario]

What the hell is it with all the WAG-swapping rumors at Monaco?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Does Perez's extension mean retirement for Alonso?


Just wondering what this meant? Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning...

[FaultyMario]

Just wondering what this meant? Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning...

Clearly.

If both seats at Red Bull are locked, it means the development ladder will not get to the top, which means that the more advanced driver in the program needs to find a seat, unless he wants to stay at a b-team.

Pierre Gasly is a top-drawer driver, but the top 4 teams have their leading driver under contract for the long term. That only leaves Alpine, which, in essence, has 3 drivers under contract (Ocon, Alonso and Piastri), but at the same time, they have made attempts at signing Gasly before, so, to me, it seems natural that Gasly would seek to drive for Alpine, who are not going to get rid of their best driver (Ocon), and could make efforts to loan out their least experienced one (Piastri). That leaves Alonso in a vulnerable position, as he only has 2 choices atm, retirement or become a paydriver to a backmarker team. Aston if Vettel calls it quits or Haas if Vettel can swap his protegé in.

[FaultyMario]

Joe Saward says that Haas can't afford to keep Mick in (https://joesaward.wordpress.com/); too few results, too expensive repair bills. So, the kid has one foot out already, they're just waiting on Daddy Ferrari to approve or deny. I think his name brand and the German audience are worth it in the long term, now that Seb is in his twilight years.

Now, here is my speculation, Alonso wants to have a presence in the U.S. that's what his McLaren/Kimoa/Indy500 approach was all about, it makes me think that a move to Haas would be in his interest, as he could then try to move to Nascar or some other discipline that would allow him to have a business in America, post-F1.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Alonso and Vettel really should just retired and let the youngsters race.

However, I'm unsure if Gasly is better than Alonso. Maybe younger and cheaper, but if I were Alpine team boss, I'd just take the time to groom Piastri, rather than spend money on Gasly.

I'm also not sure if Gasly could do better than Ricciardo in the McLaren.

I think his best bet is probably to just wait it out at TR. If you shine so brilliantly in a slow team like George Russell, rest assured that you'll be noticed by the top teams. Gasly is not bad, but he has rarely impressed me though. He's better than Yuki, but as Yuki gains experience, will that remain true? ATM, Yuki has more points than Gasly.

Anyway, even if Perez were let go, I don't think Gasly is even on Horner's list of replacements.

[FaultyMario]

Alonso's hurt ego cost them a points finish for Ocon in Monaco.

Half the grid is better than Alonso.

[FaultyMario]

The two mentioned were Piastri and Herta. Just a rumor of course.

Anybody else heard Alex Palou?

Interesting, isn't it?

[CudaMan]

I do know Steiner is getting annoyed.

In other shocking news, grass is green. :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

Grass will be brown in CA soon! :p

[dodint]

It's not entirely his fault, but I've been catching up on Drive to Survive and got through the annual Ricciardo episode. Even without DTS he would be an insufferable flop, but boy does their fawning over him and having the knowledge that he's a dud make it a really juicy watch. I'm on the most recent season so the episode was about how he can't keep up with Norris.
Extra bonus points for making Zak Brown look like a dummy.


Finally got around to watching Monaco. Even with fast forward, it was a snoozefest. Ferrari is dumb and no one overtakes on track. Cool.

[JoeW]

Rumors are Verstappen likely to retire after 2028 contract expires at the ripe old age of 31.

[FaultyMario]

no one overtakes on track. Cool.

No that they're heading to Baku I wonder if the SUVs will even fit around the bulwark's chicane?

Edit: Added pic.

https://d3cm515ijfiu6w.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/25091441/Ferrari-Baku-2019.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow! Is that an apartment building? It'd be so cool if I live there. I could watch the whole race from my balcony! I can even wave to all the drivers!!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Is something going wrong with Max or is Perez on fire lately?

I'd be really impressed if Perez could win pole and/or race over Max again(with Max finishing the race). Then he'll definitely be a championship contender and Jos can STFU.

[FaultyMario]

Both.

[JoeW]

I think Max just doesn’t give a shit about being the fastest guy in practice. He always seems to focus on race pace over one lap speed. No way Perez beats Max this weekend if neither have car issues.

Every race Max has won this year (except the sprint race) he has done so by not being fastest qualifier.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, at least my previous impression is that Max should the Ayrton Senna type. I know they are not always fastest, but unless they have a really formidable teammate, usually they should be faster than their teammates and naturally demonstrate the #1 status.

If Max failed to finish ahead of Perez again this weekend, Jos will have a hard time building his case. ;)

Perez's performance this year is really unexpected. It almost as if Perez and Sainz swapped souls... I was expecting Saniz to be much closer to LecLerc and Perez to be blown away by Max.

Furthermore, if George Russell keeps it up, Mercedes has to wonder why they have to continue to pay HAM extra money to drive their shit car...

[JoeW]

I am confused why RBR still can’t get Max’s DRS fixed while Perez’s is just fine. And every other car on the grid is fine.

Parts are parts right? If Perez’s car is fine then why don’t they just replace the damn parts?

It’s kind of embarrassing.

[JoeW]

Stroll has managed the illustrious feat of crashing on back to back laps. This Buds for you dumbass.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Something just isn’t right with Max I think. I’m not a fanboy because he’s just so good at strategically winning the races while running behind his teammate for most of the weekend.

I certainly don’t remember Senna running slower than Berger or Andretti during practice and qualifying…

I suspect Max is probably also frustrated to the point of perhaps breaking his DRS lever?

Anyway, this freaking track is really too narrow and too fast. Not good for racing, but those faster drivers for sure have the mad skills!

My China Man Zhou finally out qualified Bottas! Maybe I have a chance at catching kchrpm in our fantasy league! :D

[JoeW]

I think Max is just confident in his race pace. He doesn’t appear overly worried about 1 lap pace. The last several races his interviews have sounded like he’s not concerned about qualifying pace as long as they get the setup right for the race. Because when they do, he wins.

[FaultyMario]

I am confident Carlos is just going to bin it in the race.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, not on tracks like these, unless he gets some lucky pit stops!

[Rare White Ape]

This one is definitely Ferrari's to lose.

[JoeW]

Having that extra 10-15kph will be a big deal for RBR on those long straights.

[samoht]

An interesting race, until it wasn't.


The Ferrari - Red Bull contest was turning into an interesting long-run strategic contest, seeing who could keep their tyres going, until both Ferraris broke.

Can't see the top three positions changing after Leclerc's retirement.

This is a big moment for the championship, a triple hit for Ferrari - a likely 26 point swing to Max today, plus a grid penalty for taking a new engine at some point, plus the threat of further blow-ups and/or the need to invest effort into fixing the engine or running it less aggressively to protect it.

Ah well, Ferrari aren't really going for the championship this year anyway according to their boss...

[Crazed_Insanity]

At least the Mercedes has been super reliable to be able to catch up!

RB reliability probably isn’t a sure thing yet?

JoeW spoke of others never have DRS problems and Yuki proved him wrong! :p

Looks like unless there’s a Ferrari buffering between Perez and Max, there’s just no way for Perez to wins a race. Team order or not.

[JoeW]

Yukis wing broke in half. I wouldn’t call it a DRS malfunction :) And as proven, duct tape fixes everything.

Even if Ferrari didn’t break, Max was going to win going away. It’s like I said, when the race starts Max plans for optimum race pace. Finishing 20secs of Perez tells you who’s the boss.

[samoht]

Even if Ferrari didn’t break, Max was going to win going away.

Well, you would think that ;). I've not seen any analysis to support that outcome; I was anticipating a good race between them.

[JoeW]

Would have been closer but I imagine LeClerc would have finished 3rd (maybe 2nd) because he would have had to run a 2 stop race.

[Rare White Ape]

This one is definitely Ferrari's to lose.

QFT

[JoeW]

Ferrari just doesn’t have the race pace yet. Great in qualifying but not on race day.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Would have been closer but I imagine LeClerc would have finished 3rd (maybe 2nd) because he would have had to run a 2 stop race.

I guess we’ll never know for sure.

When Leclerc came into the pits early like that, the safer bet for RB would be to try to match your other car to the same strategy to cover your ass. However, since 2nd RB was Max, they’ve decided to not match LeClerc’s strategy… if Perez were running behind Max, I’m sure RB would’ve matched…

Anyway, too bad Leclerc DNFed.

Without the Ferraris, surely Perez cannot beat Max in a straight fight.

[JoeW]

Pitting on lap 10 wasn’t a very good decision which is why RBR didn’t match it. At the time RBR was doing a 1 stop strategy and going long on the mediums for at least another 10 laps. They knew LeClerc was going to have to pit again and they also knew they could cover that 25-30sec pit stop gap if necessary. In the end it wasn’t necessary :)

Ferrari was probably hoping for more VSC opportunities later…but Sainz can only DNF once per race :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think Ferrari probably knew that allowing Max to freely chase Checo would slow the Mexican down…

Anyway, too bad their engine blew so we’ll never know what might have been.

[dodint]

Ferrari are still a bunch of buttholes. They just have a better motor now.

Whoops.

They're just a bunch of buttholes. My bad.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

[JoeW]

Sick burn sir.

[samoht]

Pitting on lap 10 wasn’t a very good decision which is why RBR didn’t match it. At the time RBR was doing a 1 stop strategy and going long on the mediums for at least another 10 laps. They knew LeClerc was going to have to pit again and they also knew they could cover that 25-30sec pit stop gap if necessary. In the end it wasn’t necessary :)

Ferrari was probably hoping for more VSC opportunities later…but Sainz can only DNF once per race :)

Apparently RB tried to call Perez in, but had a miscommunication and then he'd passed the pit entry by the time he'd understood.

There was a further VSC for another Ferrari-engined car ISTR, so Leclerc could have got two cheap stops.

BBC said:

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said he believed Verstappen would have been able to catch and pass Leclerc, and other teams' strategy simulations agreed, suggesting that it would have been close, but Verstappen would have won out.

Leclerc was not so sure. "We were leading and I was managing the tyres well," he said. "We just had to manage the tyres to the end and we were in the best position to do that."

A close race, but with Max having the balance of advantage, sounds about right. Frustrating we didn't get to see it really - as soon as Charles' engine blew I knew that was it for interest.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, consider that most of the time so far this year, when Max finishes a race, he’d win it! So it’ll be easy to believe that Max could beat out Charlie boy in the end…

It’d be funny that Mercedes wins the championship in the end for being the most ugly, but reliable of all! :D

For a car that bounces so much and so back breakingly hard, it is quite amazing that it’s so reliable. These components can’t possibly have been designed to survive such environments because they never saw it coming! Gotta hand it to Mercedes’ engineers.

Season is still long, maybe it’s a matter of time? If drivers can complain about their backs, I can’t believe this bouncing won’t effect the life of the various components…

[JoeW]

Honestly if it’s such a problem just raise your ride height. Problem solved. If your team can’t figure it out but others can, then is it really a problem for the FIA to step in?

Raising your height will fix porpoising but you will lose performance. So either figure it out or keep subjecting your drivers to pain OR raise the car, go slower and no porpoising :)

[samoht]

Honestly if it’s such a problem just raise your ride height. Problem solved. If your team can’t figure it out but others can, then is it really a problem for the FIA to step in?

Raising your height will fix porpoising but you will lose performance. So either figure it out or keep subjecting your drivers to pain OR raise the car, go slower and no porpoising :)


I'm inclined to agree that it would be unfair to change the rules in-season in a way that would benefit some teams at the cost of others. On the other hand, drivers will always be willing to push themselves and risk their health to gain laptime - there's a reason we make the car's safety features mandatory in the regulations.

To me the ideal approach would be an FIA-provided G-logger in every car (I think they already have this for crashes anyway), and then ask some medical experts to define a 'harmful' level of vertical shock. (Likely a rate of change of force, rather than G force itself). Each team has an allowance of say 100 'over limit' events for each race, and if they exceed this that car is black-flagged.

This would preclude the trade-off between physiologically harmful bouncing and laptime gains, while allowing those teams which have 'cracked the code', and have cars that are quick without hammering up and down, to continue to reap the fair reward of their aerodynamic design excellence.


Longer term I think there's a question over whether F1 wants to be a game of who can get the best ground effect aero without bouncing, a somewhat esoteric skill. If not, then it might make sense for next year to require some eg minimum ride height for all cars (a 'virtual plank' ?), to reduce the emphasis on this specific high risk, high reward design area.

I don't particularly mind which way the sport goes in the longer term, I'm confident Mercedes will catch on and catch up for next year if the rules remain stable. I just think some limits should be in place to avoid the risk of longer term injury to drivers from driving cars that are quickest when they're hammering into the ground many times a lap.

[dodint]

I'm inclined to agree that it would be unfair to change the rules in-season in a way that would benefit some teams at the cost of others.

Last year they waited for the very last lap of the season.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm inclined to agree that it would be unfair to change the rules in-season in a way that would benefit some teams at the cost of others. On the other hand, drivers will always be willing to push themselves and risk their health to gain laptime - there's a reason we make the car's safety features mandatory in the regulations.

To me the ideal approach would be an FIA-provided G-logger in every car (I think they already have this for crashes anyway), and then ask some medical experts to define a 'harmful' level of vertical shock. (Likely a rate of change of force, rather than G force itself). Each team has an allowance of say 100 'over limit' events for each race, and if they exceed this that car is black-flagged.

This would preclude the trade-off between physiologically harmful bouncing and laptime gains, while allowing those teams which have 'cracked the code', and have cars that are quick without hammering up and down, to continue to reap the fair reward of their aerodynamic design excellence.


Longer term I think there's a question over whether F1 wants to be a game of who can get the best ground effect aero without bouncing, a somewhat esoteric skill. If not, then it might make sense for next year to require some eg minimum ride height for all cars (a 'virtual plank' ?), to reduce the emphasis on this specific high risk, high reward design area.

I don't particularly mind which way the sport goes in the longer term, I'm confident Mercedes will catch on and catch up for next year if the rules remain stable. I just think some limits should be in place to avoid the risk of longer term injury to drivers from driving cars that are quickest when they're hammering into the ground many times a lap.

Yeah, breaking the car is one thing, breaking the drivers' back is quite another. With something unforseen like this, I think a rule intervention should be in order, even if it is a mid season change.

FIA and team designers should all get together to figure out an agreeable revised rule which will eliminate bouncing ASAP!

[JoeW]

Dodint is just saving up the zingers :)

[FaultyMario]

Longer term I think there's a question over whether F1 wants to be a game of who can get the best ground effect aero without bouncing, a somewhat esoteric skill. If not, then it might make sense for next year to require some eg minimum ride height for all cars (a 'virtual plank' ?), to reduce the emphasis on this specific high risk, high reward design area.

Nothing can predict how these cars will behave in Radillion, after being compressed and uncompressed at speeds in excess of 250 km/h.

Oh, and the drivers are going to hate COTA.

[dodint]

Keith is the only person I know that likes COTA.

[FaultyMario]

Williams to change to Renault power units for 2023, gets Oscar Piastri on loan as part of the deal.

So, Alpine are back to having 2 drivers, Ocon and Alonso. Is Gasly inching closer?

[JoeW]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-teams-already-rejected-rules-tweak-to-eradicate-porpoising/10320822/?fbclid=IwAR17CS4-YvbvbQvHttkn7bbZAweft_ZLY2Y7UoaKzTlmrHKjVvKdM0eejm E&fs=e&s=cl

Looks like teams rejected a proposal last year that would have eliminated porpoising. Idiots.

[Blerpa]

Keith is the only person I know that likes COTA.

Dear lord, that makes 2 people in the world that likes that piece of shit of a track. Unbelievable.
I'd rather do an endurance at Hungaroring or Paul Ricard rather than driving a single lap of COTA.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-teams-already-rejected-rules-tweak-to-eradicate-porpoising/10320822/?fbclid=IwAR17CS4-YvbvbQvHttkn7bbZAweft_ZLY2Y7UoaKzTlmrHKjVvKdM0eejm E&fs=e&s=cl

Looks like teams rejected a proposal last year that would have eliminated porpoising. Idiots.

Looks like FIA should just penalize bouncing?

If sensor detected over a certain amplitude and frequency level per lap, then it’d be deleted as if you exceeded track limits? Whatever height you qualified with, that’s how you will race.

This will force teams to raise ride height for driver safety? Teams without porpoising issue can just keep their performance advantage without raising ride height?

This should protect drivers without forcing a design rule change.

[JoeW]

Fun fact. Max is now youngest driver to reach 25 wins at 24yrs.

Vettel at 25yrs
Schumacher at 28yrs
Alonso at 29yrs
Hamilton at 29yrs.

Helps when you start at 17 :)

[JoeW]

And link to a chart of fastest to hit 25 wins in relation to how many race “finishes” it took them to get there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/vbuzgj/jim_clark_sped_to_25_race_wins_in_just_45_race/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb

Surprisingly Hamilton only 6 races different from Max.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Fun fact. Max is now youngest driver to reach 25 wins at 24yrs.

Vettel at 25yrs
Schumacher at 28yrs
Alonso at 29yrs
Hamilton at 29yrs.

Helps when you start at 17 :)

It also helps when we now have a lot more races scheduled on the calendar?

[Crazed_Insanity]

And link to a chart of fastest to hit 25 wins in relation to how many race “finishes” it took them to get there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/vbuzgj/jim_clark_sped_to_25_race_wins_in_just_45_race/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb

Surprisingly Hamilton only 6 races different from Max.

That's an interesting comparison. However, clearly, Jim Clark and Jackie Stewart were in a totally different era? Maybe the machines they drive didn't matter as much? Or were they just lucky to have the fastest machines right away? Or perhaps they just really really good? I can't really get a good feel for those drivers in those ancient era... :p

Schumacher, Senna and Prost are pretty much in similar era... and clearly they are in a league of their own.

For the more relatively modern generation, Vettel appears to have the best stats, but clearly that was assisted by Adrian Newey at the right time. I think both Hamilton and Max have experienced a slump in performance due to their slow cars.

If Ham or Max could wear the same 'shoes' as Vettel, I'm pretty sure either of those driver could improve their stats to the 60's.

Don't get me wrong, Vettel isn't that bad of a driver. You must be crazy good to make that list.

[JoeW]

They have been running 16-18 races since the 70’s. Only added a race here and there since later in the modern era. So it’s not like there are huge differences in number of races among drivers who raced in the 90’ through now.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think I started watching F1 back in 1988 and they had 16 races for a long time and then it started to increase around early 2000. Now we have 22 races/yr.

It just felt like back then when I was watching Senna, they had way more cars on track, less championship points and less # of races/year.

Extra cars may not mean much. Because if you're not in a top team, you still cannot win. However, perhaps it was easier to groom young drivers back then? Anyway, with more races on calendar and more points awarded and drivers getting younger and younger, it can definitely skew these statistics a bit... :p

At least according to my heart, my #1 was Senna... and Hamilton was his successor... and Max will most likely be successor after Ham in my heart... unless Leclerc or Russell surprises me.

The only thing lacking from Max is that he has never had a formidable teammate. Senna had Prost. Hamilton had Alonso. Max had Ricciardo/Checo thus far... So far, Russell has done way better in the area of kicking the ass of a seriously formidable multi-champ teammate.

[FaultyMario]

And link to a chart of fastest to hit 25 wins in relation to how many race “finishes” it took them to get there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/vbuzgj/jim_clark_sped_to_25_race_wins_in_just_45_race/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb

Surprisingly Hamilton only 6 races different from Max.

That's a funny metric, the usual denominator is GP entries.

Because that takes into account when a driver or their team was disqualified or if they weren't good enough to enter the race.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, to be fair to the driver, that metric excludes car failures or whatever other reasons that prevented a driver from finishing.

Win/finish ratio is a legit metrics in my book. What's kinda funny to me is the magic '25'. Not sure what's the reason for that? It'd take Jackie Stewart and Jim Clark more than 2 years to reach 25 races, where as it'd only take little more than one year for get to 25 races for modern day driver.

Perhaps to filter out drivers like JV? Who lucked into a fast Williams right away.

[Blerpa]

Piastri will drive for Williams in 2023 instead of Latifi.
Actually rumours have it the canadian is going to move to Indycar but he could leave the english team before the end of the season, maybe even after next F1 race which coincidentally is in his home country.
So, Latifi could leave F1 in a week time... what about the sponsors he brought to Williams? No idea so far.

[JoeW]

Yeah it would be rude to deny Latifi the right to finish last in his home GP.

Yeah I saw that metric pop up on FB as a link to Reddit. I had never seen one based on finishes. Because it factors out unreliability and crashing.

I did notice, while looking up how many races there were in a season back to the mid 70’s, that there were as many as 21 constructors (40+ cars) back in the day. That would be fun to see nowadays. But cars were half the size as well.

[dodint]

That's a lot of backmarkers.

[FaultyMario]

I did notice, while looking up how many races there were in a season back to the mid 70’s, that there were as many as 21 constructors (40+ cars) back in the day. That would be fun to see nowadays. But cars were half the size as well.

That's why there were prequalifying sessions. Some drivers would "enter" the GP but not qualify for it, because the number of grid spots was less than the number of entries.

[JoeW]

Never a dull moment.

[JoeW]

Just looking at 1989 for example.

40 cars. But it looks like only 26 would start the race. Just by the looks at a few race results it seems like it was normal for just over a third of the 26 to even finish. Now that’s what I call unreliability.

[FaultyMario]

Do you know how much it costs to run these things reliably?

the days of 8 cars of 26 finishing were also the heyday of the garagistas.

[samoht]

I highly recommend the Bring Back V10s podcast, they dive into various races and storylines from the heyday of naturally aspirated F1. Here's an issue all about pre-qualifying and the huge numbers of teams who tried their luck at the pinnacle of motorsport in the late 80s/early 90s - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/s1-e8-the-backmarker-madness-of-f1s-pre-qualifying-era/id1502628252?i=1000473837023

[JoeW]

Probably akin to building an actual rocket in the 60’s. You really never knew if it was going into space or exploding 5 secs after ignition.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Speaking of which, the name of the rockets that got us to the moon are called F1!

We honestly don’t know to make them again because the knowledge gained simply didn’t get passed down after funding was cut…

Eventually we’ll probably forget how to make V10 ICEs…

[JoeW]

Hearing that Giovinazzi to replace Schumacher at HAAS.

[samoht]

Glad to see the FIA are reading gtxforums.net ;-)



To me the ideal approach would be an FIA-provided G-logger in every car (I think they already have this for crashes anyway), and then ask some medical experts to define a 'harmful' level of vertical shock. (Likely a rate of change of force, rather than G force itself). Each team has an allowance of say 100 'over limit' events for each race, and if they exceed this that car is black-flagged.




A Technical Directive has been issued to give guidance to the teams about the measures the FIA intends to take to tackle the problem. These include:
...
2. The definition of a metric, based on the car’s vertical acceleration, that will give a quantitative limit for acceptable level of vertical oscillations. The exact mathematical formula for this metric is still being analysed by the FIA, and the Formula 1 teams have been invited to contribute to this process.


https://www.fia.com/news/fia-takes-steps-reduce-porpoising-interests-safety

Good to see them doing the right thing to protect the drivers without unduly interfering in the competitive order.

[CudaMan]

Keith is the only person I know that likes COTA.

Add another to the list.

Don't knock it till you've been there. :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm sure we can find something to love about all race tracks!

I haven't been playing computer games nor have I been watch full races for a while so I don't really have a good feel for COTA... so I'll take your word for it! ;)


Glad to see the FIA are reading gtxforums.net ;-)





https://www.fia.com/news/fia-takes-steps-reduce-porpoising-interests-safety

Good to see them doing the right thing to protect the drivers without unduly interfering in the competitive order.

Yeah, that is really the best solution! If your car bounces over a certain 'accepted by all involved' level, you need to sacrifice performance for the sake of driver's health. If your engineers have figured out how to extract performance without bouncing, then go ahead be as low as you want. FIA should be able to easily monitor this with onboard accels and disqualify cars accordingly if there are exceedances.

[dodint]

Add another to the list.

Don't knock it till you've been there. :)

It's a style preference. I'm sure the facilities are nice. My issue is that turns 3-9 and 2-19 are contrived nonsense. As if the designer had no idea what to do with the landscape and decided to make an autocross out of it.

But I'm blessed with a really nice course built nicely into the existing terrain here at PittRace. If you're looking for something similar in Texas I'd suggest Eagles Canyon Raceway. Much like Spa, you actually feel like you're going somewhere.

[FaultyMario]

I hope race control does not drop the ball in Montreal.

[Kchrpm]

It's a style preference. I'm sure the facilities are nice. My issue is that turns 3-9 and 2-19 are contrived nonsense. As if the designer had no idea what to do with the landscape and decided to make an autocross out of it.

A version that straightlined the esses and turned the stadium section into just one turn would be interesting to see.

[Rare White Ape]

Is the stadium the bit with the weird tightening five-apex nonsense near the end of the lap? No corner should tighten like that does.

Fucking Hermann Tilke ruined so many tracks with corners that get awkwardly slower as they go. Fuji is OK until you get to the end of the lap. Holy hell.

Too many tracks designed to try and induce passing in F1 cars that can't pass without some bullshit like DRS (which IndyCar doesn't need. Did you guys see the Road America race last week?) and ending up being hopelessly frustrating to drive on.

Nate mentioned Spa, revered as a monster of a circuit. But you have to remember: it was modernised in the 80s and the bit between Les Coombes and Stavelot is fairly bland... except that Pouhon is and evil corner and would cut your nuts off if you show it too much skin.

Why aren't more modern tracks built like that?

[Blerpa]

80s Spa is for pussies! Try 67's Spa! Just joking before someone reads too much into it

[CudaMan]

It's a style preference. I'm sure the facilities are nice. My issue is that turns 3-9 and 2-19 are contrived nonsense. As if the designer had no idea what to do with the landscape and decided to make an autocross out of it.

Probably no surprise that the esses at COTA is one of my favorite sections of race track. :) It's like high speed autocross transitions as you say. Plus curbs and a couple bumps and camber changes and elevation changes to make it more interesting. :)

The tight stuff near the end of the lap does feel a little painful at times but it does create passing opportunities (including with not-F1 cars) and poses a unique challenge.

The long sustained carousel is pretty fun on its own especially at the end, trying to carry speed down the hill but also stay tight enough to be set up and settled for T19 which is one of the toughest corners to get right.

I dunno, I dig it. :)

[Kchrpm]

Yeah, what Bryan said! :)

[Alan P]

80s Spa is for pussies! Try 67's Spa! Just joking before someone reads too much into it

Fond memories of the evenings in Grand Prix Legends. Especially Cudaman getting very upset one night as I got a better start than him and we ended up colliding in T1 as he really didn't expect me to be there. He was generally WAY faster than me.

[JoeW]

Why does Danica have this job? Even Button clearly wants to call her an idiot right on the mic. There has to be any number of people better than her.

During trackside talks the host turns to a rowdy crowd and “Have a wank, you’re on TV! That’ll keep them happy for a bit”. Hilarious.

[FaultyMario]

I thought it was me who was a little intolerant of her.

Anyway, fingers crossed for some crazy Fantasy results.

[FaultyMario]

Why did Sainz never change his approach to the hairpin??, he was continually losing 3 tenths on the exit there!!

[JoeW]

It looked like Ferrari was struggling with rear grip out of slower corners.

[FaultyMario]

It looked like Ferrari was struggling with rear grip out of slower corners.

Yes, yet for 15 laps he tried to attack Max there, I never saw him consider a line that was different to the Red Bull, which, btw, was glued to the floor after the hairpin.

IMHO, a passing attempt needed to be executed in 2 laps, the first one to charge batteries or get tires "in the zone" all the while using the DRS zones to try to be within half a second at the apex of T4. It's like he never took into account the time that he was always going to lose in S2. It was so frustrating.

[JoeW]

Yeah Sainz seems to be a seat of the pants driver. But not being able to plan ahead and strategize on the fly will keep him out of the upper echelon of drivers. This impatience killed him in Q3 as well when he just couldn’t wait to get on the gas. The last lap vs Max he was all over the place on acceleration in pure desperation.

He was just in blind attack mode the whole time which is basically just following and hoping DRS gets you past. Great drivers have a few more tools in the bag.

[JoeW]

I am also a little sad that F1 places so much importance on wins as far as points are awarded. Russell has finished P5 or better every race but is 60pts behind Max who had a few DNFs. I wish the awarded points were a little closer from P1 to P10.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think Mr. Most Wins definitely should beat out Mr. Most consistent for the championship.

Anyway, I think George might still be in the hunt, if Max DNF a few more times… and if Mercedes figured out a way to win races…

[FaultyMario]

So you think you could be doing better than Pierre Gasly (https://gasly-game.vercel.app/)?

[Tom Servo]

zomg the director was driving me bonkers, at least on the F1TV screen. Huge fight at the end where DRS gap is key and they keep removing the intervals from the graphics and occasionally just show us Alonso driving around. There were times near the end where for a good half a lap they'd show every interval *except* the ones between Verstappen and Sainz.

[Blerpa]

I am also a little sad that F1 places so much importance on wins as far as points are awarded. Russell has finished P5 or better every race but is 60pts behind Max who had a few DNFs. I wish the awarded points were a little closer from P1 to P10.

That's actually what happened in old F1 for like 50 and more years and EVERYONE hated it.
We waited till 2010 that it is more sure, rightfully, that who has the most wins will most probably win the championship.
Not a Rosberg Sr. again, kthnxbye.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, if memory serves it tended to lend itself to races where people were strategically not going for the win, which felt a little depressing.

[dodint]

Why did Sainz never change his approach to the hairpin??, he was continually losing 3 tenths on the exit there!!

He is mediocre.

[FaultyMario]

Porsche set to announce works-team status to Red Bull on July 6th.

Except that... they can't.


Not before 2026 engine regs are announced, whose final draft Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault have decided that they would rather wait on approving until the eleventh hour, just to fuck with VAG.

[JoeW]

I read a rumor that Honda might be interested in coming back in…which could complicate matters a bit.

I’ve got my money on N/A V10’s lol

[Rare White Ape]

Honestly who doesn’t want to fuck VAG?

(Yeah I know. I’ll get me coat.)

[FaultyMario]

We've got the lesbians in our side.

Hey, even the supreme court is down with OPP!

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWBwu3TXwAAa0r5.png:large

[FaultyMario]

ESPN understands that Nelson Piquet, a three-time world champion, has been banned from visiting the F1 paddock in future as punishment for his [racially-motivated derogatory] comments about Lewis Hamilton [made last November to Brazilian media].



Third time's a charm, I suppose.

First he had leaked to the press that Mansell was a cuckold.
Later he stirred up gossip around Senna's homosexuality.

Both were false and, ultimately, way off limits.

[FaultyMario]

In-season rule changes approved.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWbum_EWIAE845A.jpg

I expect the in-house lawyer's reaction to the terrible wording.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Third time's a charm, I suppose.

First he had leaked to the press that Mansell was a cuckold.
Later he stirred up gossip around Senna's homosexuality.

Both were false and, ultimately, way off limits.

Wow. I really had no idea Nelson Piquet is an equal opportunity hater!

Given his son's 'track record', Max ought to be careful with his daughter...

[dodint]

In-season rule changes approved.


I expect the in-house lawyer's reaction to the terrible wording.

I do not recommend temporary repairs.

[FaultyMario]

I thought you'd be wary of how time is defined in point #4.

[FaultyMario]

Detective Inspector Seb has taken off the deerstalker and is now wearing his corporate uniform. He is now a salesman for carbon neutral fuels.

He's doing a demo run this weekend, he'll be driving his FW14B using a special fuel mix.

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/racefansdotnet-21-06-30-16-23-09-2-1536x1024.jpg

Good, I say. I think that's the only way we all can keep loud cars going fast 'round circles for the foreseeable future.

[Kchrpm]

Is it the wine production waste like what the WEC is using?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why is that 'his' car? That's clearly Nigel Mansell's car!

Anyway, if we can really have carbon neutral fuel, we probably won't be needing EVs then. EV's should still be good around urban areas, but just not very practical for long road trips... or in super cold or hot climates.

Carbon neutral fuel should also allow FIA to keep F1 going! :)

[FaultyMario]

Because he owns it.

[FaultyMario]

Is it the wine production waste like what the WEC is using?

Haven't looked into it. But agroindustrial waste is a good bet.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oh. Billi the idiot did not know that!

Anyway, for me, I think Senna will forever be #1 and that car will forever be the #1 Formula 1 car in my heart.

Good to see it being tested to perhaps will take F1 to another level.

[FaultyMario]

Vettel collects stuff, like vinyl and bicycles.

I think he got rid of some his Ferraris in the last year or so, IIRC, he owns, or used to own, one of the prized Schumacher Ferrari racecars.

Schumacher I think he had like a stable of super fancy race horses that his wife had to sell in order to concentrate on his therapy. And Ron Dennis had one of the most precious wine cellars in the world.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Did not pay much attention to what Vettel collects, but based on that Williams alone, I'm guess he has pretty good tastes! ;)