F1 2022 Season - "Big Wheels"

[JoeW]

Carbon neutral isn’t necessarily better than EV. The fuel used is carbon neutral. The rest of the car isn’t. If you look at the ground up process, carbon neutral would have an exponentially larger footprint than near zero carbon footprint. So even though the fuel used is carbon neutral, an EV powered by solar panels would be much more efficient.

[FaultyMario]

I know, it's hard to hate on the roaring buzz of a blender.

[JoeW]

Not sure if what I typed made sense :) I’m on my phone at the beach with family. Was commenting more on Billis statement about the F1 car powered by carbon neutral fuel being more efficient than an EV.

Ignore if I sound sillier than usual :)

[FaultyMario]

I understood.

But I think we petrolheads want to stay away from those buzzers as long as we can.

[Rare White Ape]

Carbon neutral basically means “we took this polluting thing out of the environment and when we were done it was back in the environment again.”

It is not zero carbon, or negative carbon. If everything was carbon neutral there would still be the same amount of CO2 in the atmosphere causing climate change.

[Rare White Ape]

But still, I’m all for preserving the ability to operate noisy racing cars.

If everything went electric sooner, then that means there would be even more oil left lying around for enthusiasts to have fun with.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm not against electric, but clearly at this stage, we can't even generate enough green energy for our AC for our homes let along power ALL cars on the road! Also, not only are lithium ion batteries are severely impacted by extreme temperatures, but use of AC or heat in EV will further reduce range.

I personally think once we have cold fusion working, then for sure everything will be electric. We also need drive by charging while traveling on the road rather than hauling these huge batteries around. Surely the creation and dumping of these batteries will create new troubles for this world that we haven't even forseen.

So if we can really do carbon neutral, that'd actually be great progress! Stop adding more carbon is step in right direction... and let's just plant more trees or something.

Lastly, I really don't want to lose F1 cars... F-E just doesn't feel right.

[JoeW]

Well yeah. V8 or V10 ftw.

[Crazed_Insanity]

In the future, maybe we’ll just have turbo hybrid 300mL carbon negative V2’s, but sounds like V12! :D

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWhONaRWIAI71jU.jpg

Silverstone means upgrades.

[JoeW]

That’s a fairly significant change to that area of the car.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Get the feeling the newer version is just temporary perhaps? I like the old single solid piece better.

My guess is that perhaps they’ve designed those rear body like that to be more easily reconfigure for different track/conditions during practice sessions? Once they figure out what works best, then they can simply make one single panel?

[FaultyMario]

Is it me or does the Ferrari now look more mebouncy than the Mercedes?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Cosplayer_of_Mai_Shiranui_at_SDCC_20150710.jpg/682px-Cosplayer_of_Mai_Shiranui_at_SDCC_20150710.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

I can't tell. You'll have to ask Kchrpm.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWk4EGmWYAAZ_PT.jpg

Seems to me the whole suspension has been reworked.

The cars' stance looked different on track.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Seems like bodywork panels are all bulging out for both RB and Mercedes? What the heck are they adding underneath? Thought they’re all already at the weight limit…

Anyway, Lewis Hamilton is finally showing us who’s supposed to be the #1 Mercedes’ driver, at least for FP1 and 2. :p

[JoeW]

The foot camera isn’t very cool with only two pedals. There’s a reason they haven’t done it in over 20yrs.

[Freude am Fahren]

Still fairly cool though.

I agree with what the Sky commentators (including Jensen) were saying when talking about Vettel's run and the fuel. If this can be a way forward for carbon neutrality, why not just go back to V10's or V8's in 2026? You could then slap off 1-200 kg from the weight, maybe a couple of feet of length, and make the racing even better (and make Monaco look like a race, not an episode of Friends ("PIVOT!")).

Let Formula E take the Electricity & City track route.

[dodint]

100% chance Sainz rolls over and let's MV through on Lap 1 tomorrow.

[JoeW]

I’m hoping for some rain to mix up the board a bit.

[FaultyMario]

I'm hoping for a greasy track.

Race control has proven they just can't function over anything beyond a light drizzle.

[Crazed_Insanity]

To be a good #2, Sainz need to roll over on top of Max to help Charlie boy catch up! ;)

Anyway, rain certainly made things more interesting, need a rain race!

[dodint]

100% chance Sainz rolls over and let's MV through on Lap 1 tomorrow.

Before Turn 1, even.

[FaultyMario]

Twice, maybe?

[dodint]

Leclerc had to do it himself. :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Maybe not?

[dodint]

So frustrating. Sainz was going to get caught by MV. Best case is he holds him up for Leclerc. Instead he runs off by himself. Terrible.

[FaultyMario]

Hamilton win not out of the cards.

[samoht]

Pretty exciting & interesting race til now, better than normal for Silverstone I think.

[samoht]

Could HAM go long enough on these tyres to switch to Softs for the last 15 or so laps? The Hards don't seem to be doing that well for others.

[FaultyMario]

How did VER tumble down the order?

Broken floor?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wondering the same thing…

[samoht]

Can always trust the Renault teapot to throw in some late interest ;)

[dodint]

Leclerc needs a new team. Ferrari just put him in front of a firing squad on this Safety Car.

[samoht]

Leclerc needs a new team. Ferrari just put him in front of a firing squad on this Safety Car.

He did get Masi-cred at the restart, yeah. Not clear how much it was just unlucky timing with the safety car and the time Leclerc passed the pit entrance, and how much it was traditional Ferrari incompetence.

[Kchrpm]

There was a lot of great action on track after the safety car, wow. It didn't end up how I wanted, but it was a fun show.

[JoeW]

Nice drama there on last 10 laps. LeClerc got Ferrari’d. But he screwed himself on lap 1 with wing damage. Might have cost him a couple tenths throughout. Loved the battles at the end.

Halo saves the day yet again. That was some serious shit.

[dodint]

Replay of Leclerc at the restart:

https://y.yarn.co/a935600d-f316-45ab-bad8-14c369753673_text.gif

[Kchrpm]

Also, Sainz telling his team not to be stupid and then getting the win because of it *chef's kiss*

[JoeW]

Perez moves ahead of LeClerc in points. Yikes.

Lewis better watch or he’ll be a Scientologist by association :)

[2ndMoparMan]

Holy fuck, Zhou was lucky. Another 180 rotation and that would've been it.

[MR2 Fan]

https://twitter.com/ZhouGuanyu24/status/1543631356080668673

[Crazed_Insanity]

Cool! Good to know. That was a serious crash…

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWwk41jX0AIiGl_.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, looks like Mercedes is close to being back?

Or it just looks that way because Max wasn’t up to speed?

Looked like a prettt awesome race, just wish there were less crashes and with Max running ‘normally’.

[FaultyMario]

2 thoughts:

Should Valtteri have gotten a black flag? Zhou's roll structure was sheered on impact, the Halo saved him but that is not its function. If the FIA are so tough on safety, the other Alfa surely must have needed to be stopped and inspected.

Tom Cruise on the winners' celebration. Lewis' and Checo's dad were hugging and having a good time, and people started joking that Tom was Carlos' dad. Mmm... what if instead of the obvious F1 biopic, Cruise produced and starred a movie about an aging really ace who overcomes his demons to win the Dakkar rally? He freaking looks the part!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well zhou survived! If he was killed, maybe you have a point? But then like you said, halo wasn’t even designed for such freak accident, so if this is really deemed bad enough, all chassis on track May need to be grounded and redesigned? This is a very slippery slope…

So given that Zhou survived, perhaps design changes of the halos can be revisited for next years cars?

Or perhaps halo worked just as intended and FIA is very happy with it and Zhou’s well being is testament of that?

[FaultyMario]

Dude, make an effort on the reading.

I'm not criticizing the Halo.

I'm saying the Alfas need to be inspected. The roll structure (the pillar above the air box) is the safety element that prevents the driver from being squashed in a rollover.

That structure failed.

A secondary element, the Halo, whose main function is to deflect large pieces of debris from breaching into the cockpit and hitting the driver's helmet, was what saved Zhou's life.

That was an unnecessarily close call.

[Rare White Ape]

Should Valtteri have gotten a black flag? Zhou's roll structure was sheered on impact, the Halo saved him but that is not its function. If the FIA are so tough on safety, the other Alfa surely must have needed to be stopped and inspected.

Don’t they use standardised parts for that section of the car? If they do then every car would need to be inspected.

I’ve never seen any governing body black flag a sister car for a safety fault that occurs with a team mate. This’ll probably go to the FIA inspectors for deeper analysis, and possible update to the regs for next year.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, neither the halo nor the ‘roll’ structure was really designed to be able to scrape on the ground continuously like that, right?

Not sure if anyone really expected an F1 car to travel upside down continuously like that for such a long distance without rolling back over?

Anyway, if there’s really a flaw in their design or workmanship, hopefully they’ll figure it out and fix it next time.

Personally I kinda doubt it’s a design or manufacturing flaw. It was definitely good to have halo there sharing some of the action otherwise it might be Zhou’s helmet and face scraping the ground before the car flipped over the tire barrier.

[Yobbo NZ]

Halo also saved Roy Nissany. I would think he'd be well dead if that accident happened a few years ago.
Also, sausage curbs need to be banned.

[Tom Servo]

I feel like I need to issue an apology to Silverstone. I got the winner spoiled, and I was still in suspense watching the race. That was a good one.

[FaultyMario]

Don’t they use standardised parts for that section of the car? If they do then every car would need to be inspected.



I think they can use standardized parts for all safety structures.

I'm not sure they do.

[JoeW]

You guys should search for the fan cam footage from the Zhou crash. There is video from a guy standing in the fence grandstands about 10ft from where the car landed. I’m sure those fans were shitting bricks as that car was sliding straight at them. It’s crazy footage.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I just learned on YouTube that Alfa has a pole rather than a triangle as their roll structure. Whether that’s bolted on or bonded on, a pole naturally will have a harder time staying up straight as the car slides upside down like that.

I think that pole might have survived the initial impact as the car rolled over, but for the most of the upside down slide, it’s the titanium halo structure sparkling on track and protecting Zhou’s head…

Anyway, yeah, the fan footages are amazing. I don’t think I’d be able to continue filming. I’d try to duck and hide… or perhaps everything just happened so fast, maybe I’d fail to react as well!

[dodint]

https://twitter.com/F1_Images/status/1543922940022067200

Again, Leclerc needs to join a real team.

[JoeW]

Yeah there was some speculation that if he would have pit then the others may have stayed out. I think with 12 laps to go it’s a tough call. If it were a VSC then he should keep track position but since it would be a SC restart you have to give him new tires and trust your driver and superior car to get the job done.

I think Ferrari just freezes up during the high pressure/quick decisions. Not sure why that is happening though.

[Crazed_Insanity]

My gut feeling is that Ferrari no longer has a central figure? I guess any team losing such center of gravity will probably lose that magic touch? Doesn’t have to just be one person, i think ideally we need both a strong driver and a strong team boss supporting each other… having a strong designer like Adrian Newey can also be a nice bonus, but not absolutely necessary…

Think Toto/Ham, Horner/Max, Brawn/Schuey, Dennis/ Senna…

Ferrari has been replacing team bosses and drivers left and right… Binotto and Leclerc have been doing well, but both of them seemed lacking just a bit compared to those other legendary boss/driver pairings… also, is Ferrari all in on Binotto/Leclerc? Or they still could be replaced easily when things don’t go well? Without going all in on your ‘employees’, I don’t think Ferrari will ever repeat their past success.

[FaultyMario]

Zhou's.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FW00GJiXkAEJ7dO.jpg

Herta's after his flip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k72vOgSFupc) in the Indy 500 practice.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FW1BSg_XoAAThPE.jpg

from: https://twitter.com/EngineMode11

[FaultyMario]

How did VER tumble down the order?

Broken floor?

A piece from the Alpha Tauri got lodged in the floor.

[dodint]

Yeah there was some speculation that if he would have pit then the others may have stayed out. I think with 12 laps to go it’s a tough call. If it were a VSC then he should keep track position but since it would be a SC restart you have to give him new tires and trust your driver and superior car to get the job done.

I think Ferrari just freezes up during the high pressure/quick decisions. Not sure why that is happening though.

If he pits he loses his 9 second buffer, putting him back out 10 seconds behind Sainz, if Sainz stays out. Once the field bunches up behind the SC he probably has the same ~3 cars to pass that ultimately finished ahead of him anyway, except he is the one on brand new rubber.

I don't know if the +19sec pit stop delta is the same under the SC, just spit balling here.
I am fairly confident Ferrari turned a 1-2 into a 1-4 by not bringing him in.

[JoeW]

Totally agree.

Pretty sure the 9 sec is under VSC.

But with full SC if you don't get in right away (like they should have done...Karun said it perfectly in the video) then by the next lap they are all bunched up behind the SC and you lose all your time advantages and track positions. So he was screwed at that point. Sucks for him...he was likely fuming in that helmet. And even moreso watching everyone drive past him over the next 10 laps.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWzmPUrXwAEJrGx.jpg

[JoeW]

Someone is going to fall off that fence and get run over one day.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWzmPUrXwAEJrGx.jpg

Must have been somebody who’s a big fan of Sainz but unable to move with Sainz from mclaren to Ferrari?

[FaultyMario]

Friend. A big friend of Sainz.

[JoeW]

Saw a thing on FB that said Famous F1 drivers and their opponents.

One was a photo of Senna with a photo of Prost.
One was Hamilton with Max.
The last was a photo of LeClerc with a photo of the Ferrari prancing horse :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ha!

I really hope Leclerc won’t end up like Alonso and Vettel…

Hopefully both Binotto and Leclerc will be able to grow more comfortably at Ferrari. I think they’re almost there! Just few more kinks to iron out?

[Blerpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHA6817GG1o

Sausage curbs are the most useless (and needlessly dangerous) thing on tracks these days.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Totally agree.

If it's the enforcement of track limit, it should be so easy to implement this electronically? Rather than actual curbs, install sensors on track. Make this whole thing totally automated. Once you exceed the track limits, both drivers and race control know it instantly without the need to look at replays and argue about it... If it's during quali, than the lap is automatically deleted, if it's during the race, then it'll be a stop and go penalty.

The dangers and the damages caused by these curbs just isn't worth it.

[Blerpa]

Actually there are already sensors for that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So they kept the curbs just to damage the floors and to launch them cars into the air?!?!?!?

[JoeW]

To deliberately "discourage" drivers from cutting the track THIS much.

[Crazed_Insanity]

5 sec penalty or stop and go penalty should be much 'safer' and often times cheaper, by saving the floors, discouragements.

[Blerpa]

Or just let them cut it: if the drivers find the way to cut it and get faster it means that's the proper line through it.
Get over it and let them use ALL the surface available to the limit.

[Rare White Ape]

Eject the sausages into space. Bring back less grippy grass and Astroturf. Remove all tight, shitty, annoying switch-back corners from race tracks.

[Freude am Fahren]

Or just let them cut it: if the drivers find the way to cut it and get faster it means that's the proper line through it.
Get over it and let them use ALL the surface available to the limit.

I agree with this. Because there should be grass or gravel outside all the track, and the curbs should never be wider then the cars. Then there would never* be a faster line outside the white lines.

*well maybe some chicanes like Bus Stop could be straight lined through the grass. But that would be egregious enough to simply penalize.

[dodint]

Eject the sausages into space. Bring back less grippy grass and Astroturf. Remove all tight, shitty, annoying switch-back corners from race tracks.

This is the way.

[Rare White Ape]

*well maybe some chicanes like Bus Stop could be straight lined through the grass. But that would be egregious enough to simply penalize.

I’d like to think that nobody is silly or dishonest enough to blatantly corner cut, especially in F1.

What really grinds my gears is the hyper aggressive side-to-side racing we see nowadays, which has been fully facilitated by these extensive paved track verges and become the style of a few notable drivers, and was indeed the root cause of that horrible F2 crash at Vale corner last weekend.

[FaultyMario]

Nice to see Mick mixing it up.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes! I need Mick and Zhou to beat Bottas in order to beat Kchrpm in our fantasy league!!!

[FaultyMario]

2 in a row for Gasly.

:smh:

[FaultyMario]

Charles reading Carlos the riot act on the cool down pad while Naomi Schiff interviews Max is the kind of content we pay for.

[JoeW]

Well Sainz was faster :) And that battle is what I pay for. Didn’t look like a riot act…just talking and Sainz was smiling.

I don’t think Haas ever got the message to Mag about slowing down to keep Mick in DRS.

I think the Albon penalty wasn’t. Seen alot worse. The infamous Max/Charles shunt was definitely worse.

[FaultyMario]

Bernoldi dishing out penalties like they're Halloween candy?

Noice.

[JoeW]

Bout time.

Great race overall. Lots of great battles throughout.

Man that Ferrari really exploded.

Loving the Alonso finger wag going into the braking zone :)

LeClercs 1st win from non pole position speaks volumes. Not really a battler typically.

5 sec penalties for running people off the road into 4 just isn’t enough. Conversely, due to the frequency of these incidents, trying to pass on the outside of 4 isn’t the best choice :)

[FaultyMario]

Big Mick to talk about it?

Big Mick energy?

[Crazed_Insanity]

This track must be great for Haas? Still, mick was great today!

[JoeW]

Priceless photo circulating showing Ham/Lec this year and Ham/Ver positions last year at Silverstone in the exact same part on the track. It’s great because Hamilton is clearly much further out into the track at the apex to block Max.

And he’s talking about how much more respectful it was vs LeClerc. It’s clear now who was in the wrong spot. Max and Lec in the exact same place on the track…Lewis way out off line vs Max.

[Blerpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu1zUjEL8Eg

[FaultyMario]

I'm not convinced Russell was the best choice for GPDA's president.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Problem is with FIA's ego, right?

No sane experienced driver would want to deal with that so they elected a less experienced guy who actually cares?

Seeing Russell rushing to the aid of Zhou tells me that he's probably the right guy for the job? But anyways, I really have no clue what GPDA president is suppose to do... just thought George is a fine driver and a decent human being.

[JoeW]

He seems a little whiney to me.

[FaultyMario]

I really have no clue what GPDA president is suppose to do...

Go down to the wolf's lair and deal in sheep, basically.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXUtuAbXoAU9uBY.jpg

Welcome to the picnic Carlos #F1 (https://twitter.com/F1_Images/status/1546192319698853892)

[FaultyMario]

I went and answered the official midseason survey.

I told them the Miami track was shit. I hope I win the signed cap.

[Tom Servo]

I wasn't able to watch the race until today (extended visit from the in-laws due to a medical emergency during the visit). No talk of how we saw the first proper engine grenade we've seen in a long time - reminded me of the old days when Kimi's Mercedes engines used to consistently blow up violently.

[JoeW]

Man that Ferrari really exploded.


I mentioned it but I think most people skip my posts like they do with Billi. Or maybe that’s just me? :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

No it’s just Billi.

[JoeW]

At least we don't skip each others ;)

[Tom Servo]

I mentioned it but I think most people skip my posts like they do with Billi. Or maybe that’s just me? :)

Oh shit, you're right. For some reason I got put on posts starting on the 11th, which meant I missed all the posts actually about the race. Go me.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think we’re spoiled by modern day reliability. Rocket or F1 engines really ought to explode more regularly as they push near the envelope…

Plus, unlike crashes, we don’t really know why it exploded so it’s not like there’s much to talk about. :p

[Blerpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiGKaW5SLLg

[Crazed_Insanity]

I saw that video as well.

I think it's mis-titled. It should be why Lando is so good! ;)

[FaultyMario]

Ferrari, what the hell was that?

Are you guys OK? You just executed a sensible strategy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You talking about the tow from Sainz?

Anyway, hope they can do well in the race as well.

What happened to Gasly? Out qualified by Yuki at home race…

Also, Ham had less seat time this weekend yet still qualified better than George. Mercedes must have changed something to help Ham do better?

[FaultyMario]

Perhaps Hamilton is just a better driver.

Gasly is slumped.

[JoeW]

Crazy how big the gap is from Ferrari/RBR to the rest.

Now that the most exciting part is over we can watch the Paul Ricard shit show tomorrow.

[JoeW]

This track is terrible.
Ferrari are idiots.
LeClerc still not ready to fight for WDC.
Mercedes are back.
If Ferrari keeps this up then they could easily be overtaken on points by an improved Mercedes.
Russell is now officially the most irritating, whiney driver on the grid.

[FaultyMario]

Yes.
Yes.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Yes.
Always.

[2ndMoparMan]

I agree.

[FaultyMario]

This is the way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRpbbF2guNs

[dodint]

I was going to quote myself again but you have beaten me to it. :lol:

[Rare White Ape]

Ferrari, y tho?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ferrari’s tail end seems easily disturbed?

Or this is purely Leclerc screwing up?

Anyway, to me it’s mind boggling Ferrari would tell Sainz to box in the middle of the fight. Team wasn’t paying attention or they just don’t want Sainz fighting Perez?

So unfortunate that the team worked so hard for the pole and then the implosion…

Lastly, I think it’s not just Mercedes, but Hamilton’s back?

Still hoping for a 3 way battle between these 3 teams. RB for sure looks like they’re running away with it though…

[Kchrpm]

Seemed like Ferrari took so long making the decision that by the time they did it was no longer the right decision. People are too timid to just make a decision in the moment, and the situations in F1 are too dynamic to go through an intense chain of command. They should be more proactive and predicting different scenarios and how they will act based on which one happens.

[JoeW]

Hamilton never left. His car is getting better. They aren’t porpoising anymore and they have found some speed…and of course they are the most reliable team in F1. They aren’t quite there on qualifying pace but the race pace is now solidly ahead of everyone except Ferrari/RBR.

As far as the pit stop is concerned, if they are on the fence then just ask the driver. And sainz clearly wanted to stay out. If Ferrari thinks the tires will explode then I understand, but there was no evidence thus far to that effect.

I think Ferrari is clearly the faster car. Again Max’s pace is the only thing keeping RBR relevant. But Ferrari, as many have pointed out, just can’t keep it together…whether it’s crashing, reliability or bad decisions. They have to solve those problems. If they do…they are Champions for sure.

[JoeW]

Mattia definitely rocking the Harold Ramis Ghostbusters look pretty well.

[dodint]

I did not watch any FP or Q. Why didn't Ferrari put Sainz on softs with only about 10 laps to go? The car was near empty. Was disappointed to see him go back out on mediums.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, it just looked like Ferrari didn’t care where Sainz finish… as if they’re just testing various things and preparation for their next implosion.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hamilton never left. His car is getting better. They aren’t porpoising anymore and they have found some speed…and of course they are the most reliable team in F1. They aren’t quite there on qualifying pace but the race pace is now solidly ahead of everyone except Ferrari/RBR.

.

I was just comparing Ham to George. Ham is finally acting like a team leader.

[Rare White Ape]

I'd put LeClerc's crash down to Ferrari's decision making too. They kept him out long and the commentator said he was struggling with rear grip.

It seems reasonable that teams would have a recommended best plan based on the activities of other teams: if it was an automated system where you plug in lap time, pit speed limit, your grid position, expected tyre wear, what the others are doing, etc. Feed it all the data and it spits out a recommendation for each lap. Ferrari should make one of those, because right now is seems like they have 20 Italians yelling at each other in the garage. Sorry Blerpa :D

[FaultyMario]

They look like a bunch of foocking wankers.

- Günther.



They need to drop the upset-ness.

- Toto

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'd put LeClerc's crash down to Ferrari's decision making too. They kept him out long and the commentator said he was struggling with rear grip.

It seems reasonable that teams would have a recommended best plan based on the activities of other teams: if it was an automated system where you plug in lap time, pit speed limit, your grid position, expected tyre wear, what the others are doing, etc. Feed it all the data and it spits out a recommendation for each lap. Ferrari should make one of those, because right now is seems like they have 20 Italians yelling at each other in the garage. Sorry Blerpa :D

I still don't know the exact detail, but I think unless the tire suffered a blow out or the car broke from an actual failure, the driver has to share at least 50% of the blame when it crashes, right? If the team doesn't think you need to box, drivers should force it if he disagrees, right? Just as Sainz refused to box when the team asked him to. ;)

Anyway, what you guys have predicted about Ferrari imploding is amazingly becoming true. It's just so odd that I'm not sure what's exactly the source of their problems. They obviously have a fast cars and fast drivers. Hope they figure it out soon.

It was certainly nice of Sainz to defend Ferrari for a bit. Yeah, you guys are not a disaster... sure sure... Just threw a way a win and a podium finish starting from last place! :p

[JoeW]

I hate to point out something Rosberg said but he mentioned the winds gust there from the rear of the car position...which can cause unexpected loss of downforce as well.

To me, tire wear issues are primarily the driver's responsibility. The team has access to telemetry and sensors upon sensors of data. They will communicate any issues cropping up (lift and coast, right rear getting hot, take it easy on the fronts). Aside from that, they rely on driver feel and input regarding the performance of the tires. So unless the tire is in danger of coming apart or catching fire...it's up to the driver. Oftentimes the teams will ask about box windows and the driver will say tires are still good, or vice versa...tires are shot, losing pace. LeClerc was just pushing a little too hard on worn out tires. He should know how to regulate his pace by now. Max was pushing him so hard in the early laps that he just wore them out. Max had to pit earlier than expected because of it. And once Max had shut down the pit window for LeClerc to pit and stay in front then Ferrari had some problems to think about. It was 1-2 laps after Max pit (and at the same time Max team told him to push) that LeClerc crashed. I think he was pushing to try and regain the pit window gap but blew it. I think LeClerc is fast but he is still making these little mistakes when he shouldn't.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I do believe Leclerc probably need to shoulder more than 50% of the responsibility for crashing. I think he suffered a spin during practice due to gust as well?

Anyway, hope he learns from his mistakes. They all make mistakes. Max, and even Senna has crashed all by himself when comfortably leading... I think you're probably right about Charlie boy trying too hard to maintain his lead or pit window...

Unless Max and RB make more mistakes of their own, it's gonna become harder and harder to catch up to them... even with a fast car. Throwing away a race win was probably particularly hard on Leclerc...

As a Max fanboi, I hate to wish to for problems for RB; however, I really want to see a fair, mistake and reliability trouble free 3 way fight on track!

Anyway, at least I don't think RB is becoming so dominant as it was during Vettel years. If not this season, then hopefully next season we'll have a more decent 3 way battle.

[JoeW]

I assume RBR will likely have a DNF or two as well as some engine penalties eventually. I’m sure it will get closer fairly soon.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Should have gotten closer sooner by last weekend! Or it would've been nice for Max to DNF as well to allow Mercedes to catch up a bit more... ;)

[FaultyMario]

Charles is over driving, like seb was in 2019.

Not the drivers' fault that they can't be confident their team will get them off the hook, imho

[JoeW]

Werd.

[FaultyMario]

seriously?

the third most winning driver announces his retirement and you say nothing? Seriously?

To say I am disappointed would be an understatement.

[FaultyMario]

The guy who gifted us the Samurai Stare?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWdhJQcX0AINMzp.jpg

Thanks, Seb!

[dodint]

Vettel was my first favorite driver in F1 and I always enjoyed that he came up through BMW.

My racing helmet is modeled after his BMW helmet.

[JoeW]

I assumed we all heard about it. No need to post if we all knew ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, why point out the obvious? ;) Vettel is a cool guy. I wish he could’ve won one for Ferrari and then retire… I thought he’d retire after Ferrari dumped him…

Anyway, he has nothing to prove either way. If I were him, I wouldn’t stroll into that team and then retire…

Seriously, a lot of old timers should retire and allow some opportunities for the younger guys!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mercedes seems off pace during practice again… maybe they’re not back?

Mclaren sure impressed though… ahead of Max!

Maybe this track is just very tricky to setup?

[FaultyMario]

Vettel's was longer and more thicc than Schumi's.

Schumacher's winning streak was 7 wins while Seb's was 9 and it included back-to-back Grand Chelems at Singapore and Korea 2013.

Also, in 2013, he defied team orders at the Malaysian GP during that infamous thing*. Imagine if Massa had stood his ground at the 2010 German GP!



*It has been since acknowledged that Multi21 was payback for the previous year finale when Webber blocked him twice, when he was trying to keep Alonso from outscoring him.

[JoeW]

Looks like Mercedes is back mostly.

And RBR suffering issues already.

Our predictions are already coming true :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

That came out of nowhere, right?

Anyone expected George to be on pole?

Looks like Mercedes is back?

RB Hondas looks to be struggling badly this weekend. So it’s clear we don’t really have a dominant team/package this season…

[samoht]

George Russell is the kind of guy to put a Merc back on pole :D

Lewis would've been there or thereabouts if his DRS hadn't failed I think, too.


Hungary has long been a bogie track for RB, I don't read anything across from this weekend to other tracks. But hopefully this means we have a 'big three' of RB, Ferrari and Merc fighting for wins for the second half of the season.

[JoeW]

Huzzah

[Crazed_Insanity]

George Russell is the kind of guy to put a Merc back on pole :D

Lewis would've been there or thereabouts if his DRS hadn't failed I think, too.


Hungary has long been a bogie track for RB, I don't read anything across from this weekend to other tracks. But hopefully this means we have a 'big three' of RB, Ferrari and Merc fighting for wins for the second half of the season.

Yeah, just wiki’ed about this track… it appears RB had only won here twice?!?!? Hadn’t realize this has been traditionally the weakest track for RB.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just saw George’s onboard pole lap, no bouncing at all!

RB and Ferrari better watch out!

[FaultyMario]

I was going to quote myself again but you have beaten me to it. :lol:


Absolutely nobody:

Ferrarri: Let's put Charles on the tire that adds one second to his lap time when he's defending his lead. Yeah, sure why not?

[FaultyMario]

Impressive from Red Bull, P10 to P1 for Verstappen whose spin wasn't costly in the end.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZAFcJCXwAIJWo2.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

So unpredictable! Here I thought this track is just bad for RB, then he comes from 10th and spins around to wait for everyone and then still wins the race?!?!?!?!

[JoeW]

Yeah masterful drive by Max. Overall a better race than I expected considering the monaconess of this track. I would say LeClerc was screwed but even when Ferrari went to soft tires at the end they were still off the pace of Mercedes.

I would like to say it’s RBR but without Max RBR would have been 6th or 7th as seen by Perez pace. Max is just carrying that team this year.

[JoeW]

I think Alpine is the mid tier team that is closest to joining the top teams. They are really quite fast and just one really good update cycle away from really competing.

[FaultyMario]

Thinking out loud...

Could Zak Brown engineer it so that Stroll takes on Ricciardo for Aston Martin?

No offense, but that seems like a great pairing. Both for the fashion rags and the oil-soaked ones. Stroll Jr. is too inconsistent to carry a team on his shoulders and at the same time no AAA driver would get near that team.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Is Alpine privately owned now or is it still technically Renault’s? Anyway, they probably just need more money?

Anyway, I think Max’s spin screwed Perez a bit, didn’t it?

It’s kinda amazing to have such a different starting grid, yet we pretty much have the same race result as last week.

It’d be even more amazing if Leclerc and Ferrari could claw back all the points they lost before the season ends? :lol:

[samoht]

So the people in Ferrari's strategy team who work for Red Bull, whose cost cap do they come under? ;)

Putting Leclerc on hards was a really crazy move. At that point there was a tonne of evidence that the hard tyres just weren't working - both from practice and from the Alpine and Haas drivers sliding back down the field on them.

Ferrari's explanation? Their 'simulation' said that the hards would switch on after a couple of laps and be fine. FFS, if your simulation tells you something that completely contradicts all real-world evidence, you question the assumptions you've built the simulation on, you don't discard reality. https://the-race.com/formula-1/ferraris-defence-of-tyre-choice-that-killed-leclercs-race/

Even if you somehow were gonna run the Hard, you'd run it early in the race when the car's heavier with fuel and the track greener and more abrasive, not leave it for your third stint. Medium, Medium, Hard, Soft. What a load of chumps. Additionally by switching tyre at the first stop, you've ticked the two compounds box, so you leave yourself flexibility and leave your opposition guessing.

The thing is, Ferrari at the very least need to put together a serious title challenge in 2023. To do that they need to practice making good strategy calls this year, so that they're reliably sane in all 23 races next year. Instead we see one facepalm moment after another.

I also note the contrast between Leclerc's response to his error last week, being honest and self-critical, and Binotto's lame defense of today's dumbassery.


If I were Charles, I would be making discreet enquiries in the Brackley region about possible future employment opportunities, since they have a staff member who's approaching retirement age and will need replacing, and their culture of openness and honesty would seem a good fit for him. Ferrari just don't have it in them to put together a top-tier car, top-tier strategy and to appropriately prioritise their top driver. And the fact is the competition from Merc/Russell and RedBull/Verstappen is so hot, Charles could spend his whole career being disappointed over and over again at Ferrari.

[FaultyMario]

Even if you somehow were gonna run the Hard, you'd run it early in the race when the car's heavier with fuel and the track greener and more abrasive, not leave it for your third stint. Medium, Medium, Hard, Soft. What a load of chumps. Additionally by switching tyre at the first stop, you've ticked the two compounds box, so you leave yourself flexibility and leave your opposition guessing.

That was shown by Sam Collins on the post race analysis, Leclerc's mediums were the same age as Lewis'. Maranello should have just copied Brackley, their race sheet is spotless.

[JoeW]

Toto said post race that Ferrari didn’t have any mediums left at that point. Which is why they went hards. But they should have run his medium stint very long then go to softs. They just panicked by reacting to Max’s pit stop.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Something weird going on inside Ferrari for sure. Their ‘simulation’ yielded them a good car, they must know what they’re doing. They just somehow unable to work together as a team.

[samoht]

Toto said post race that Ferrari didn’t have any mediums left at that point. Which is why they went hards. But they should have run his medium stint very long then go to softs. They just panicked by reacting to Max’s pit stop.

Yeah, they have to run two compounds, so makes sense they wouldn't have had a third set of mediums to switch onto. So yeah, M,M,S or M,M,S,S if you decide to discard the second set of mediums early. Using the Hard was a terrible idea, and using it unplanned late in the race in response to a move by Red Bull was an even worse idea.

[JoeW]

The Ferrari pledge...

https://youtu.be/RCYGtbL1QH0

[samoht]

Having duly taken the piss out of Ferrari, I shouldn't neglect to acknowledge that Max and RB won this race (from tenth) just as much as Ferrari squandered it, really well driven by Max apart from the one spin, and great strategy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

To be able to spin and win like that demonstrated that he should be a worthy 2022 champ.

Still hoping Ferrari and Mercedes can mount a serious challenge in these last few races…

[JoeW]

Just for this season I hope he continues to destroy and win by 100pts or more just somewhat validate last year’s bizarre ending.

[dodint]

His first earned championship, you mean.

[FaultyMario]

His first earned championship, you mean.

What do you mean? Verstappen killed it in Hungary, his banker lap put in Q3 him on the front row, before his team failed him, and then he had to swim against the current because his team put him behind Leclerc on lap 42.

No, his team didn't fail him? It was driver error on both cases?

Well, he must be driving the fastest car and for the best team, then.

[dodint]

I was noting that 2022 would be the first championship earned by him.

I don't think doing well against this Ferrari team does anything to validate 2021. He can not overcome the stigma of off-track intervention enabling that win in 2021. Tough for him, yes, as it wasn't his fault.

The entire formula changed afterward. There is no retroactive mending of that result.

[FaultyMario]

Watching the Vettel tributes since his retirement was announced I was reminded that in 2012 he won his second championship in the exact way that Hamilton should have won his eighth.

Maybe that's why all the talk of Max's greatness (after this weekend's performance) is falling on deaf ears with me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[samoht]

The 'ageing world champion' role at Aston Martin has now been filled by a certain well-known Spaniard.

Seems AM were willing to offer a two year deal, whereas Alpine wanted to (be able to) dump him for 2024.

One assumes Oscar Piastri will be driving alongside Ocon at Alpine next year.

[Blerpa]

So Alpine could put Piastri on the seat alongside Ocon.
Williams is now without a second driver.
Could Ricciardo end up there? He is way costlier than Norris and has scored exactly FOUR time less points than Lando (19 vs. 76).
Quite a sad end of career in case.

[Rare White Ape]

My Australian DNA (which none of you have in you, unless you want sum and I will gladly deliver it to you) says that I should deploy the sad panda about Ricciardo's performance this year.

He is driving for McLaren, for fuck's sake. One of the greatest names in F1 and my childhood favourite team, nowadays forever on the cusp of mediocrity.

But eh... that's F1 for you.

[dodint]

I was on another forum and they were talking about who is the greatest self-inflicted career destroyer of our era. Fred or Dan. I lean towards Dan, his results are so egregiously misaligned with the amount of respect he has in the paddock. At least Fred won something of consequence.

[JoeW]

Were they already going to sack Alonso at the end of the season? Otherwise this seems like another step down for Alonso. Alpine just seems like they are closest to the next level than anyone else.

I also want to point out the pass LeClerc made on Russell into turn 1 was a great move. I forgot to mention my excitement at that moment.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What happened to Ricciardo is a mystery. He was able to kick Vettel's ass when they were teammates!

He is a proven winner. At least he won a race with McLaren and Lando is still trying. :p

Makes me wonder if Max could adapt to other cars/teams easily. Anyway, I think Ricciardo probably just need some mental/psychological help. I do hope he'll be able to retire with a bang somehow...

[FaultyMario]

Alonso was hoping to get an extension but Renault are really looking at their future. It was an easy choice for them when they couldn't shoehorn Piastri into Williams, their option with him expires in 2023, so it's either promote him or lose him.

Yes, Leclerc on Russell was superb.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think Renault should just focus on getting their cars in better shape 1st. If you continue to have so so cars, you'll only be ruining drivers' careers and your own reputation.

Renault probably should have a B team to help develop their cars and their young drivers? It just doesn't look good if no other teams want to use your engines. Not really sure dumping Alonso would be Renault's best option at this stage. Sure, Ocon scored more points so far, but surely Alonso's experience level should still be helpful when it comes to developing their car further?

Anyway, if even Renault is hesitating on extending Alonso's contract, it's probably time for him to retire or to move the AM and get ready for retirement.

[dodint]

Dan was hit with a penalty for running into Stroll and relegated to 15th. Nullifying his double pass. :lol:

[Blerpa]

Ricciardo cannot adapt to the braking style needed to drive actual F1 cars.
I'm so sad about it. I liked him a lot, I think he is way better than Rosberg, Perez or Button... or, rather, WAS.
But I cannot see him being able to find a solution to his problems.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ricciardo is a proven winner and he has never taken any 'sabbatical' like Michael Schumacher or Kimi or Alonso... it's not like he's out of it for a while and got rusty.

I honestly cannot believe a driver of his caliber could not adapt better. His issue must be psychological.

Renault obviously sucked. He complained about his Renault in his RB, and it was really stupid of him to actually move to Renault..., but I think the source of his problem is probably that he needs to have full support of the team in order to feel at home. When he beat Vettel and got the team to gravitate toward him, he only got better and better. When Max came around, things began to fall apart.

In McLaren, obviously he's once again not really the favorite son against Lando.

I'm willing to bet if Ferrari hires him as the #1 driver of the team, then he'll probably get his mojo back. ;)

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZElhKTX0AEoqqy.jpg

Aston Martin #F1 2023 style..

======

Alpine : 2023 title contender, confirmed. (https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/1554072289351593984?s=20&t=hbyqb2Me1eTdXYDFCh9YnA)

[Blerpa]

I honestly cannot believe a driver of his caliber could not adapt better. His issue must be psychological.

Happened in F1 to drivers since 1950. Always. And to many champions too.

Ricciardo will never be #1 in Ferrari. Too old, too late.
Ferrari is covered with really good drivers, a new pit wall it is what they need.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I know Ferraris not gonna sign him now, just saying he needs a competitive car and be able to feel at home. Then again, who doesn’t?

I wonder if he just got lucky and was able to achieve that at RB? And then he unluckily met Max and then Lando?

[FaultyMario]

Oscar Piastri confirmed at Alpine.

[FaultyMario]

Oscar Piastri confirmed at Alpine.

Oscar Piastri has issued a statement denying he will drive for Alpine in 2023.

Is this the F1 or the Lawyers' thread?

[dodint]

Oh. His manager is Mark Webber. That explains at least part of the ineptitude.

[Blerpa]

3928

I've the feeling everyone and her dog knows Alpine is fucked in F1 and Piastri is jumping ship before it's too late. Call it bad vibes...

[samoht]

I understand that, without my agreement, Alpine F1 have put out a press release late this afternoon that I am driving for them next year. This is wrong and I have not signed a contract with Alpine for 2023. I will not be driving for Alpine next year.
https://twitter.com/OscarPiastri/status/1554527452231262210

LOL

And presumably Piastri wouldn't have burned all his bridges with Alpine, unless he already has a contract with a better team. Right?

McLaren to replace Ricciardo? Red Bull to replace Checo? Mercedes to replace Lewis? (getting less and less likely here).

[FaultyMario]

Oh. His manager is Mark Webber. That explains at least part of the ineptitude.

I think this fuckery has warned Danny Ric's lawyers. They're now prepared to defend his seat at McL.

I also think this has also triggered actions at Alfa, I'm sure they will exercise their own option on Theo Pourchaire. I think Bottas and Zhou are on thin ice now.

[FaultyMario]

I've the feeling everyone and her dog knows Alpine is fucked in F1 and Piastri is jumping ship before it's too late. Call it bad vibes...

Hard to tell from what is publicly known, It seems timing is everything in these contracts, and Alpine needed to act before August 1st. Who knows if they did, but I guess they would opt in before it expired.

[samoht]

Hard to tell from what is publicly known, It seems timing is everything in these contracts, and Alpine needed to act before August 1st. Who knows if they did, but I guess they would opt in before it expired.

I have a mental image of Webber and Piastri rushing to take a plane to Australia so they reach a location where it was already 1st August and they could claim free agency ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I thought Bottas is doing quite well for Alfa? Or are they just looking for cheaper drivers with money rather than paying expensive veterans?

Anyway, I have no idea Alpine is that fucked!?!?!? It appears to be the best of the rest so far this season, right? Even ahead of Mclaren!

Even a rookie with 0 experience in F1 won't want to drive for them? Unbelievable.

[FaultyMario]

Even ahead of Mclaren!

+


Even a rookie with 0 experience in F1 won't want to drive for [Alpine]?


It has the appearance of sub-par counsel. Undoubtedly.

[FaultyMario]

I've the feeling everyone and her dog knows Alpine is fucked in F1 and Piastri is jumping ship before it's too late. Call it bad vibes...

True dat.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZHgSRTXgAAgpRi.jpg

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZLdpN0XkAU1Ir7.jpg

[samoht]

It has the appearance of sub-par counsel. Undoubtedly.

Hard to judge until we know what, if any, other seat Piastri has lined up for himself.

FWIW I see McLaren as a team with potential to be winners again, whereas Alpine seem to have mastered the art of consistent midfield mediocrity. McLaren also are a stronger brand so better for long term personal sponsorship opportunities. Also Alpine's commitment to F1 will only last as long as Renault's bank balance, whereas McLaren are more permanent members of the paddock.
So if given a choice out of the two, I'd go McLaren I think.

[dodint]

I really wish Zak Brown would go away so I can root for McLaren again.

[Blerpa]

Rumours have it Mclaren is behind it. Nothing certain.

[samoht]

Yeah, suggestion that Alpine were assuming Alonso would extend for '23. They were trying to place Piastri at Williams (in Latifi's seat), however Piastri's crew were separately trying to get him a drive at McLaren instead for '23, for obvious reasons.

Alpine's option on Piastri ran out midnight 31st July, Alonso announced on 1st Aug he was off to Aston, Piastri thinks he's got a deal at McLaren so is resisting Alpine's subsequent attempt to reel him back there, presumably having decided he prefers Orange.

A suggestion that Piastri's manager, Webber, might have put his mate Fernando up to it with the timing of his decision ;P

All hearsay and maybe entirely unreliable.

[FaultyMario]

This can only end in Alex Palou testing for Alpine, Oscar Piastri winning the Indy 500 with Ganassi and Esteban Ocon propping up the left flank at Olympique Marseille.

o0o

[FaultyMario]

A suggestion that Piastri's manager, Webber, might have put his mate Fernando up to it with the timing of his decision ;P

Not entirely unbelievable, coming from 2 guys who were groomed by Briatore.

[Rare White Ape]

Also Alpine's commitment to F1 will only last as long as Renault's bank balance, whereas McLaren are more permanent members of the paddock.
So if given a choice out of the two, I'd go McLaren I think.

Renault is actually one of the few car manufacturers who has consistently had a long-term commitment to F1. As a driver you might go there with the risk of them being a mid-field team, but safe in the knowledge that they will most likely be there for longer than the length of your contract.

[Blerpa]

Renault can go fuck itself. And it could have gone in any stint back and forth in F1 since 1977.
And so that arsehole of Otmar Szafnauer.
Good riddance, it would be bliss.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZKVEjuWYAANtE-.jpg

Yeah Lewis, they're still the Broncos, though.

Don't get me wrong, it could've been worse, it could have been the Chiefs.

[JoeW]

Piastri thing is so bizarre. To my outsider mind I think it’s extremely stupid to burn a bridge this badly before you have even set foot on the grid. At this point I hope he never gets a F1 seat…and if he does I hope he’s worse than Stroll…without the billionaire dad to keep him signed.

It’s like a college football player saying no to being drafted by a certain NFL team. Bitch you are lucky to be offered money to do something fun.

[Freude am Fahren]

This isn't a draft though. If Alpine claims he's driving there without him agreeing to?

[Rare White Ape]

Ok wind it back a bit Joe.

There could be a million different reasons for correcting the record with Alpine that don’t involve burning the bridge.

[Crazed_Insanity]

In all honesty, unless I have a pending offer to drive for one of the top 3, what difference does it make whether if I drive a Renault or Mclaren?

Certainly made no difference for Ricciardo! ;)

I also understand what JoeW was saying, I would not tweet out that I’m not driving for alpine. Just let my manager work it out.

What has transpired is really weird. Surely bridges were burnt.

[JoeW]

Ok wind it back a bit Joe.

There could be a million different reasons for correcting the record with Alpine that don’t involve burning the bridge.

Yes I agree...but I did say to my outsider mind....so on the surface those are my thoughts ;)

I'm sure details will come to light.

[Blerpa]

I find hilarious some think Alpine is a safe and sound option for new and upcoming drivers.
It's a manufacturer team, not a racing team, so when no success is on the cards they fold up and say goodbye in the wink of an eye.
Renault has exactly done that many and many times in its history in F1, so calling it a stable choice is really bonkers.
Also, in F1 Alpine's legacy and importance compared to Mclaren is comparable with Middlesbrough and Liverpool in Premier's League.
Stick to providing engines, Renault, that is what you are good for (keeping your nose closed meanwhile, as in Europe Renault as a brand is seen like the poor man's Volkswagen - enough said!).

They do not have a satellite team, they do not provide any other team with engines (Williams denied any deal for the french engines: they have a deal with Mercedes till 2025).
They are weak and have no political power in the circus. Weaker than Williams or Haas, even, since they have no leverage.
And let's not forget Davide Brivio came and escaped the team when he understood a lot of the promises he got were lies: last season the organization saw CEO Laurent Rossi, team principal Marcin Budkowski, director Alain Permane and super consultant Alain Prost - then Brivio.
Also Rossi responded to De Meo, Renault CEO.
Quite the mess.
Then the Arsehole came after being fired by Aston Martin...

Alonso announced his departure, and middle finger to Otmar Szafnauer, one of the most incompetent team principals of F1, the 1st of August, while Renault option to excise on Piastri's contract ended on the 31st of July.
Seems to me, it was well planned and premeditate by the parts to royally fuck Alpine, knowing the ship is sinking.

The hilarious part in this: that Ricciardo could go back to Alpine and be stuck with it till the end.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting.

For such a sinking titanic, it is still currently 4th in the championship though.

If they get their act together, Renault should be dominating the sport?

[Blerpa]

4th in F1 constructor standings is nothing to write about for a manufacturer.
Either they fold or they will be forever stagnant in mid field.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, yeah, Renault and Mclaren should be fighting with the top 3! However, if you’re not careful, you definitely could end up like Williams? ;)

Btw, why Renault has less political power than Williams and haas? That part I don’t understand…

[Blerpa]

Because Haas' and Williams' engines are supplied by two big teams. That means they often vote in their respective suppliers favour but get deals and favours in exchange.
Alpine is all alone.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ah... that makes sense!

All the more reason that they need a B team, right? Perhaps Andretti's only hope of having an F1 team is to partner with Renault. ;)

[FaultyMario]

Alonso announced his departure, and middle finger to Otmar Szafnauer, one of the most incompetent team principals of F1, the 1st of August, while Renault option to excise on Piastri's contract ended on the 31st of July.
Seems to me, it was well planned and premeditate by the parts to royally fuck Alpine, knowing the ship is sinking.

And this helps the sport how? Alonso is a fucking cheat and a fucking cunt. I hope his mechanics, who are probably seeing their livelihood in jeopardy because of Alonso's failed morals, fail to fuel his car for the next race.

Of the two world champions that made big announcements in the last week, this guy can't hold a candle to Seb's grace.

[Blerpa]

Why it should help the sport?
Failed morals? You fuck with me I fuck with you.
It's corporation and multimillionaires we are talking here.
Alpine gets no sympathy at all. Alonso? I do not like him, I admire his talent and I just like him a bit after this.
His mechanics are going to be fine and nothing has to do with them.

I'm actually not satisfied, since Alpine will mend it and live to survive still a season, probably.
F1 is bigger than Alpine, bigger than any team in there... probably it would survive even if Ferrari would leave.

What Alonso did is pretty regular F1 politics and ruthless shark business.
Nothing less, nothing more.
Seb is a good guy, but let's not forget he has been as much as an asshole in his tenure in F1.

[FaultyMario]

Why it should help the sport?

Because he'd otherwise be killing the goose that has laid him some many golden eggs


Failed morals? You fuck with me I fuck with you.

It is a team sport, your teammates have to have faith in "you not fucking with me", also it is pretty low for a guy whose image is based on "the code of the samurai". It exposes him as full of shit.


It's corporation and multimillionaires we are talking here. His mechanics are going to be fine and nothing has to do with them.

Like the so many that resigned after the Covid stress. Not all F1 personnel get to travel first class, you know, some of them did get to take pay cuts or bad work loads in 2020.


What Alonso did is pretty regular F1 politics and ruthless shark business.

What he did is act in bad faith and that is an unsustainable business practice, Alonso is paid millions to be a brand ambassador for Renault, and it is not very ambassadorial to put them on the world spotlight as inept. I won't be surprised if Hungary was his last race of the season.

Alonso sits in the same category as Piquet. Whereas the likes of Lewis Hamilton, Michael Schumacher and Frank Williams showed that fierce competitors don't have to be shit human beings.

[Rare White Ape]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZLVGduXoAEoULR?format=png&name=900x900

[Crazed_Insanity]

Alonso sits in the same category as Piquet. Whereas the likes of Lewis Hamilton, Michael Schumacher and Frank Williams showed that fierce competitors don't have to be shit human beings.

I'm not so sure about Frank Williams. He sacked his defending champs! Who'd do that? Only an egomaniac who believes his car is good enough to anyone to the championships. In a way his not wrong when Williams Renault was in its prime, but while I love the car the team produced, but I really didn't like the team. That team also killed my favorite driver of all time... :(

Hamilton and Schumacher can be assholes too, but at least they won't fuck with their own team.

In a way, I get what Blerpa is saying. What Alonso has done isn't that different from what Hamilton has done to McLaren. If you've lost confidence in your current team and believe this other opportunity might be better, that's just a business decision, not a moral one, isn't it?

Prior to this incidence, I was under the impression Renault might drop Alonso because this ex-champ really didn't outshine Ocon that much. Why continue to waste so much money on this old guy? Maybe Alonso sensed the same thing and just preemptively left the team?

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZLpatMWAAInJ_K.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

[FaultyMario]

People suspect that Weber/Piastri are aiming for Tsunoda's seat in the second Alpha Tauri.

Which would make sense, as I can't see Pérez in RB after 2024.

[JoeW]

Marcus Ericsson picks…

Alpine Ocon-Gasly
AlphaT Schumacher-Tsunoda
Mclaren Norris-Piastri
AlfaR Bottas-Zhou
Haas Mag-Ricciardo
Williams Albon-De Vries

[FaultyMario]

AlphaT Schumacher-Tsunoda


One, Gasly is under contract with Red Bull for at least until 2024.
Two, why would Ferrari get rid of a potential franchise player? They might suck at sporting decisions but their commercial strategy has been sound.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't remember if Ricciardo burned any bridges with Renault? If McLaren dumps him, I hope he can still have another shot at Alpine. There's no way Haas or any of the other lesser teams will have any chance of reviving his career. I'd hate to see his full potential go unfulfilled... :(

[dodint]

Anything that gets Tsunoda out of F1 is good by me.

[samoht]

People suspect that Weber/Piastri are aiming for Tsunoda's seat in the second Alpha Tauri.

Which would make sense, as I can't see Pérez in RB after 2024.

If McLaren haven't promised Piastri a seat, wouldn't they say so? The current widespread assumption that they have makes them look bad, and makes it much harder for them to ease Ricciardo out as he now knows they've already promised his seat to someone else.

[samoht]

To my outsider mind I think it’s extremely stupid to burn a bridge this badly before you have even set foot on the grid

Being charitable towards Piastri here...
Let's assume Alpine had an option on him that expired 31st July (as has been reported)
Alpine were expecting to continue with Ocon/Alonso in 2023 (until Alonso announced otherwise on 1st August)
Piastri might have agreed with McLaren that if (as everyone expected) Alpine didn't take up their option for him to drive for them in 2023 by midnight 31st July, then he'll drive for McLaren next year
As far as Piastri's concerned therefore, he wakes up on 1st August as a 2023 McLaren driver
Then he sees Alpine announcing him

He'd want to quickly reassure McLaren that he didn't agree to Alpine announcing him, in case they suspect he's changed his mind about driving for them. A public message is the best way to do this.

[JoeW]

Danny out at McLaren next year and replaced by Piastri.

So the wool slowly pulls from my eyes...

[FaultyMario]

calm down dude, it's autosport.

[JoeW]

Aw damn. Woke up and saw this and jumped the gun :)

[FaultyMario]

i mean, it could be, it has been reported by multiple outlets that rosenqvist does not have a deal in place with McLaren for next year, even when the team had announced they did, and were debating whether to keep him in Indy or send him to formula e.

[FaultyMario]

so, who knows!!

[JoeW]

I think my problem is I don’t know which outlets are rumor rags and which ones are reputable.

[FaultyMario]

Italian and Spanish sport rags are shit, as well as British tabloids. Italian and Spanish broadsheets are generally reputable, as well as German and British specialist magazines.

That much I know.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What's the difference between rags, tabloids and broadsheets? :p

Anyway, safest bet is just to not react too quickly to any 'breaking news'. If not reported by multiple outlets, just assume it's fake news?

Now, if McLaren is really hoping to dump Ricciardo, maybe it is time for him to move on. Best case scenario if Hamilton retires and he gets a Mercedes seat? I really don't want to see him in a Haas or Williams. Renault is probably his best chance to save the day and be a hero?

You can do it Ricciardo! If you can run with Max, surely you can run with Lando? You can win again mate! Believe in yourself!

[Blerpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJsnWk6d1qI

Oh, nice.

I'm a Mclaren fan and a Ricciardo fan, my take is simple: he is lucky he didn't get fired on the spot and they asked him some money back in retaliation.
It was since the times of Perez that a driver did not put out such an abysmal performance with the team (Yeah, the Monza victory... just a fluke and a race Mclaren's pitwall asked Norris to concede to Ricciardo).

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wonder how Max would do in a modern day McLaren.

Apparently both Ricciardo and Perez failed to impress in McLarens; however, the pair did reasonably well in RBs though.

Makes me wonder just how freaking amazingly adaptable Lando really is... to shine so bright in a weird behaving car like that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This has to be one of the most silliest silly season in recent memory? My memory sucks though, if this season isn’t the most silliest, it should at least be up there somewhere…

[Rare White Ape]

Okay Alpine.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/aug/09/oscar-piastri-f1-case-could-end-up-in-high-court-says-alpine-boss

[FaultyMario]

and who would sue Piastri?

His departure from Alpine, it has been revealed, was not because of anything done by Alonso. Piastri never had a contract with Alpine, Renault Driver academy (apparently a separate entity) had testing obligations with him, and if he was good enough he could be picked up by the F1 team, thus, when McLaren presented their contract, the review board saw no conflict.

[FaultyMario]

Oh and some details about the Las Vegas GP were leaked in a letter to one local council, a business council if memory serves right.

Organizers need help procuring a couple hundred volunteers, a similar amount of fire extinguishers, about a dozen cranes. It will be held on Saturday, Nov 18. at 10 PM local time, which should be 6 AM UTM.

Track might be crap, but who can say no to an evening of racing and drinks?

[Crazed_Insanity]

and who would sue Piastri?

His departure from Alpine, it has been revealed, was not because of anything done by Alonso. Piastri never had a contract with Alpine, Renault Driver academy (apparently a separate entity) had testing obligations with him, and if he was good enough he could be picked up by the F1 team, thus, when McLaren presented their contract, the review board saw no conflict.

There must be somebody who Piastri doesn't like or just can't work with within Alpine?

I personally really cannot see what's the big deal between McLaren and Alpine in the near term. They are now scoring pretty much same amount of points. Also, besides Lando, just looked at how many careers of young drivers, including old driver like Ricciardo, ruined by modern day McLarens! Plus, he is really that confident that he can beat Lando as teammate?

Just not sure this is worth fighting for. If I really have a contract with McLaren, I'd just let McLaren's lawyers fight this fight and I'll stay quiet and not appear to be so ungrateful to Renault. This is just so odd.

[FaultyMario]

There must be somebody who Piastri doesn't like or just can't work with within Alpine?

HE NEVER WORKED FOR ALPINE.

One does not break a contract that one does not have. Piastri was under contract with a different company, Renault Driver Academy, which does not participate in Formula 1, that's why he was free to negotiate.

Like Blerpa said a few posts ago, it is Renault's own incompetence biting them back. And TBF, this predates Szaftnauer's arrival.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I understand that. However, can we really say that Renault Driver Academy is totally unrelated to Alpine Renault?

Also, not faulting Piastri for looking else where, but do you think Renault Driver Academy like it when one of its drivers made Alpine Renault look bad? Renault contracts folks are definitely incompetent that's for sure.

Just saying Piastri could've played this better. Plus, like I said, I'm not sure McLaren is really all that much better than Alpine at this stage. Either team could've been a good platform to show case his talents in the next couple of years. He should've let the teams fight for him, rather than get himself involved in this ugly battle in courts. It'd be much better without that bridge burning tweet I think.

[FaultyMario]

- Hey girl, you're so pretty... wanna hang out?
- I don't know.

- Hey girl, you're still pretty... how about we grab a bite?
- Gee... that sounds like fun, but I still don't know.

- Hey handsome, she you girlfriend?
- Who? Her? I barely know her!

[dodint]

It always bugs me when huge events like F1 or professional golf rely on an army of volunteers to make the event run. The British Open has something like 2,000 volunteers. Meanwhile, guys like Bernie would walk out of a GP venue with their pants stuffed with thousand-dollar bills.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not 100% sure if this is true, but I heard both Alpine and McLaren contracts are valid per CRB.

I'm not a lawyer, but how can we have 2 conflicting yet valid contracts? How does that work? There must be a contract that's signed later? So the contract that was sign later should be invalid, right?

This is weird.

I hope Piastri is really that good to be worth all this trouble. ;)

[FaultyMario]

One contract is for working in F1 (McLaren), the other is not (Renault Driver Academy).

I suppose he can still drive any car that RDA will present to him, and I would venture and guess that RDA is still free to share any information they gather with Piastri with any other third party they're associated with, in this case, Alpine BWT F1 Team.

Why would they do that with a driver who is under contract to a rival team is the reason why they won't.

[FaultyMario]

This is pure speculation on my part:

I think the companies that sign youngsters in order to create a ladder to an F1 team are formed as entities with a small budget and independent from the main outfit for liability reasons. They probably operate on a shoestring budget out of a two-person office. Their object is to "catch and release" talent, either they release it to their big brother or back to the water, but they must be designed to not take on too much risk, either of insurance or of contractual nature. You want to be able dissociate quickly from the Ferruccis and the Mazepins of the racing world, and, sadly, in case of the worst, you don't want to get into a long legal battle, like Marussia with the De Villotas.

[Rare White Ape]

You wouldn’t be too far off on the general scope there.

Something that set the Twittersphere alight a fortnight ago was that Colton Herta tested a 2021 McLaren F1 car at Portimao, leading everyone to think that HE was taking the seat next year.

It was merely a part of his driver development program. It is therefore reasonable to say that whoever he is contracted to has a package of activities scheduled out for him to participate in, in return for a cut of his driving fee from the Andretti IndyCar team.

I’d say that Piastri’s deal with Renault was the same: you do this, do that, be the reserve driver, Alpine pays us and we pay you, plus they can take up your contract by *this* date if they want to. Basically working on secondment to Alpine for this whole time.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I can sort of understand Fernando’s move because if you don’t trust your team anymore, you’ll likely won’t win any championships with them. Likewise if the team only wish to sign year by year with you, naturally you’d prefer a multi year deal, especially if you’re old… Alonso is just trying to find the best deal to milk the most out of the twilight of his career.

Piastri really has a lot going for him. It surely won’t matter which team he ends up showcasing his talent in. Should’ve just let McLaren fight for him rather than appear ungrateful/unloyal to Renault like this.

Anyway, these young driver programs appear to be working? I really don’t like how RB and McLaren been catching and tossing so many young drivers along the way, but they did catch Vettel/Max and Hamilton/Lando… Leclerc was also from Ferrari program, right? Renault young driver program seems to be the lamest of them all programs. Wonder if Piastri will be the exception…

[JoeW]

Not really happy that the new engine regs are staying close to the current formula. Some tweaks but the writing is on the wall as they move toward using more electrical power...Formula E and F1 will likely merge at some point way down the road.

I guess the new players coming in wanted to make sure the new regs were in line with their future philosophies.

[FaultyMario]

Seems to me that the 2026 engine regs are more about financials. it's basically "same as now, but cheaper", to my eyes.