Godson - 2022 SCCA Time Trials Max3 build

[Godson]

Most of you guys know I am involved in the SCCA Time Trials National program. Nate got me involved around 3 years ago and I have been loving the format ever since.

After getting the Corvette going and having a blast with it, my hip strength limitations made running that car difficult and I needed a better answer.

I bought a Scion FRS, as a test to see if that car would work for me. I absolutely loved the cars on track personality.

Well except the fact it is SLOW in a straight line. I'm talking I have the chance to stop thinking about what is happening, and start thinking about what needs to happen next, while still in the present.

I also missed the sound of the V8 in the Vette.

LS swaps are SO done.

So, let's talk about rules, because that has a big factor in the build.

Engine swaps are allowed, but must be from a production car, classing is based on unmodified displacement. You may modify the engines, but that moves you up a class. You may boost the engine, but that moves you up a class also.

Now with the boring handled, let's talk fun.

I was originally planning on running a high revving Toyota 1UZ. Between 4 and 4.3 liters, 240-300hp. 400 lbs. Plenty of aftermarket support, but at a price.

The original plan was the 1UZ in stock form, and to build it as I get the car sorted in the off season. 400+hp, and 8k rpm, dry sump oiling, face ripping and wild. Initial estimate would be 15k for the engine build. 4 k for the dry sump oiling. I would be competing against unmodified engine vettes in Max2. That's a lot of cash for only 450hp.

I go back to the drawing board after I see a post complaining about Max3 rulesets allowing the new Cayman GT4RS being in the class.

I head back to the rules and read up. 4.5l unmodified, 2.9l turbo.

I start racking up my brain on V8 engines under 4.5l and make good power. That leads me to looking in Europe. BMW was the first thought, the S65 checks a lot of boxes, except one. It's 470lbs assembled. That's 100 more than the fa20 and the transmission choices would add another 75+ on the front end over the stock transmission.

I go look at Aston Martin, 4.2, dry sump, 400hp. 14k for engine...and who knows about the transmission.

I then start thinking about Italians. Maserati made a 4.2l and 385-395hp, 7500rpm, factory dry sump. I look up my recycler website to find the engines available all day long for $3-4k and only 30-60k miles.

So I start hunting for my Maserati v8.

[dodint]

Sell the Vette (to my brother).

[GB]

I was in Max 4 for my TT last summer. And I won the class!*
;)

*position 1 of 1

[Phil_SS]

The Maserati V8 is a detuned Ferrari engine is it not?

Would be funny if you could replace the engine cover with one from Ferrari. Make the horsey fans lose thier minds.

[Godson]

Is a cross plane version of the f430 engine.

There has already been a group who have swapped the exact engine into an FRS in Colorado. Group is called Sideways fab, out of Loveland, Colorado.

The swapped the Maserati intake for a Ferrari California, as well as the exhaust manifolds.

[dodint]

Imagine your penis being so small that faux Maserati isn't good enough, you have to mask it even further as a faux Ferrari. :lol:

[Godson]

Lol.

I like the idea of Maserati badging all over the engine.

That, and I'm too cheap to spend money in basic penis shrinking things like that.

[dodint]

*clank*

[Rikadyn]

Rebadge it as a fiat

[Phil_SS]

Whatever happened with this?

[dodint]

Building the garage takes longer than building in the garage.

[Godson]

There is a whole lot of Truth with that.

I have gotten my ass kicked at work all summer. Pulling 9+ days of call a month, and working 15 or so hours of work on my call days. Plus working extra to help out when I can.

It has been rough. Days I haven't been working have been resting and trying to be ready for the next days worth of ass kicking I receive.

That said, the Corvette comes first. Once that happens, thia project begins. I am still planning things about the build, so it hasn't just been *sitting* dead. Per se.

I'll get my shit together and try to get this thing rolling.

[Phil_SS]

My life is boring thus I have to live vicariously through you and others. :D

And I am more than willing to drive out and help with whatever. :) Pizza and beer and let's knock the rest of that garage out! Old school GTX party unite!

[Godson]

I might have a massive car tear down party ...

I am not sure.

We'd need to have everyone on a camera as to not miss anything...

[dodint]

I'll split drive time with you, Phil. Just let me know when.

[Random]

. :) Pizza and beer and let's knock the rest of that garage out! Old school GTX party unite!

I told him the same thing in February--he needs a work party!

[Godson]

Well, shit.


Lol. Maybe in October?

[Godson]

How does towards the end of October sound?

I'm thinking teardown of mas, dropping all of the stuff from under it. Dropping it on dollies, then rolling the FRS in, and tearing the running gear out of it.

Of course, this stuff will all be labelled, videos, etc.

[Phil_SS]

Weekend of the 22nd?

I figure, drive out 20th, drive home the 24th?

[Godson]

Hmmmm...

That may be the best/only option.

1st weekend I'm on call.

8th I have a wedding to go to.

15th could be doable, but one of my helpers won't be there.

22nd I have a "leadership work party"

29th....Halloween on Monday...

[dodint]

Weekend of the 22nd?

I figure, drive out 20th, drive home the 24th?

You're not going to Smashing Pumpkins w/Janes Addiction at PPG?

[Phil_SS]

You're not going to Smashing Pumpkins w/Janes Addiction at PPG?

Are you? And no, I did not know that was an option. Though, I did see Smashing Pumpkins at Mr. Smalls and I fear seeing them anywhere else will be a disappointment. Billy Corgan was so close that we made weird eye contact.

If so it sounds like November then? It can still be nice out then....maybe.

[dodint]

Yeah, Ash got us tickets. It should be a good time. We prefer to sit in the upper bowl for PPG concerts so it won't be nearly as intimate as yours was.

That is literally the only weekend between Oct 8th and Jan 13th that I have any weekend plans on the calendar. :lol:

[Godson]

We could plan for early November...maybe the 5th and 6th?

[dodint]

That's a favorable weekend for me.

[Godson]

The buyer for the Maserati will be here at the end of November-ish to pick it up. I'll be working my ass off to get the garage interior finished (gotta sand, prime, and paint the drywall), the engine out of the vette, and then get the Maserati into position for the work to commence.

[Kchrpm]

I'm so confused. I thought you were gutting the Maserati to build an Italian Toybaru.

[Godson]

Sorry, my last post wasn't clear.

I have the body of the Maserati sold. And need to get that work, asking with the other work done post haste.

[dodint]

The more I think about it I'm probably out. I'm liking long interstate trips less and less these days. I'd rather wait till I get a plane and can get out there in five hours. ;)

[Godson]

Understood. You and ash have a room to stay in if you/ash want to stay.

[dodint]

Thanks, as always.

It's not even so much the drive for me. I just don't trust my leg. Obviously whining to you about that doesn't carry much water but I really don't want to re-injure it when I'm so close to full recovery. I fell down the steps in Tennessee last weekend and thought I was going to be back on crutches for a month. :lol: Tearing a motor out of a car is how I injured it in the first place.

[Godson]

You can always sit there, drink beer, and be a peanut gallery. ;).

I'll do the cussing.

[Kchrpm]

And you don't have to do the drive in one go!

[Godson]

Standby for incoming videos later this month....

[Godson]

First (basic) videos are now LIVE. These are mostly satirical, with a more formal show setup coming in the future!

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkZmuSgYhxRaghZ5__At7TZX7iZuC45Rs

[Godson]

I will be uploading a new video in the next day or so.

But I have started the tear down of the Maserati.

Rear suspension and subframe are out, and I will have the rear subframe removed of the suspension and transaxle assembly by tomorrow.

It's happening!!!

[dodint]

Yasssss!

[Godson]

Latest video is up. It's boring rules stuffs, but it gives you an idea on the "why".

https://youtu.be/Kqlp0lhE6vQ

[CudaMan]

Love it! Really interesting to hear about the thought process and how you're considering weight (and distribution) and the cost-saving factory dry sump setup. I'm looking forward to seeing how you figure this out and come up with solutions. I assume you know a good fabricator?

[Godson]

I am the fabricator.

;)

[dodint]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEWNIJ2lxYByovWdEF-aDgvnBPlAzlYGMgtPshck_3J3LzH-TMg-ytel7XgrRWSgk1vFhVH3A7jLrFrTpVNnkh2CMwDMvIxHpmB3HV HTF5mfFJjAg1ru_3Mf8GBHf0dFFtGkTAKEPHFn2GhtMHRBcQ7t Ow=w584-h427-no?authuser=0

[Godson]

The latest video....

Is LIVE

https://youtu.be/Q9QHQftj53U

[Godson]

I AM THE FABRICATOR....

[Godson]

Most recent video is up, please feel free to ask me anything about what is going on. I can't give good quality videos without input from y'all.

https://youtu.be/GnUGFPsljVw

[retsmah]

I'm not fully caught up on your videos, but I just watched Episode 4, so here's my thoughts on that one!

For me the engineering related details are interesting, which parts you're using from the Maserati, which ones are from the Toyota, and then what custom stuff you're having to build between the two.

I also thought looking at the Maserati hardware is interesting. I would not have guessed the F1 transmission was literally just a manual transmission with kind of a mess of hydraulic lines replacing the shift linkage.

For me at least the timelapse of removing the transaxle was a little long, it felt a little bit like an instructional video in talking about unbolting things and supporting weight. I think more how-to type content is a little boring unless it's a job you need to do and you're watching the video for that info.

From a more technical standpoint I think a lapel/clip on microphone would probably be really beneficial for getting the audio a little easier to hear. I recorded some instructional videos when I worked in the machine shop in school and had pretty good results with one. Back then I was able to check them out from the library media center, it seems like you can get them pretty cheap though. I recorded voice overs with the same lapel mic and settings so I didn't have to do any work really to match the in front of camera and voice over audio.

Anyway, just a few of my thoughts. Definitely an interesting project, looking forward to seeing more!

[Godson]

Thanks for the input. I'll make some adjustments

[CudaMan]

I haven't watched the latest video yet, but on the note of sound, from watching the other videos my first thought was the garage sounds pretty echo-y. Is it square or close to square? That makes sound reflections "more ugly". But the other problem is likely just the large flat walls. I'm not saying turn it into a professional sound studio, but I bet with more things like toolboxes, shelves, items, heck maybe even some art, or a rug hung on the wall, could help a lot. A couch in the corner too perhaps. Just spitballin'. :) Regardless of the sound this is a super cool project I can't wait to see driving!

[Kchrpm]

Do you want me to send you some artwork of a red Corvette, with or without ladies strewn about it???

[Godson]

I have plenty of artwork, I just need to get it hung.....

[Godson]

For me at least the timelapse of removing the transaxle was a little long, it felt a little bit like an instructional video in talking about unbolting things and supporting weight. I think more how-to type content is a little boring unless it's a job you need to do and you're watching the video for that info.


Ok, So I was previously having a buddy doing the editing because he had the software already and offered to do a couple. He got me going, so I am grateful for that. He was just kinda slapping these together, and rightfully so, as he wasn't being paid or anything. I have since set up a computer and am editing the videos and everything myself now. I have sped up a lot of the timelapse videos quiet a bit. one of which was 2 minutes, and I cut it down to 30 seconds. So that will be addressed from here on out. I need to figure out how long the various clips should be sped up. All things I just need to figure out.



With that addressed, latest video is up.

I will be implementing your suggestions in the next episodes. I have a backlog of video as it is, so the changes I have made won't be seen for some time. Depending on what it is.

https://youtu.be/iH2taSKlAYU

Let me know what your thoughts are.

[retsmah]

I though the timelapses worked well in this one, and stopped at good spots to point out interesting stuff, like the nice hex bolts retaining the rotors rather than those stupid little phillips screws some cars have, and the parking brake was interesting.

The torque tube was a fun one to look at as well, I liked the transition from the tube to the flange/bolt locations, it looks like the same design could just be aluminum and work fine, but maybe not. One of my friends has a couple very over-engineered Volvos, he did a custom aluminum rear axle (https://www.instagram.com/p/CAUdPdRHRea/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link) to replace the steel one on his 242 and saved about 50 lbs.

Also liked going through the use of the whole rear suspension, makes sense that you want to get the bigger brakes and wheel bearings, especially if other guys are running through wheel bearings quickly.

Anyway, I liked it!

[Godson]

Latest Episode, or "Shift" is up.

A few things.

I have recorded a lot of these videos a while back, the beginning of December, and prior to any of the feedback you guys have given me. One of these videos is pretty echo-y, and that is with a heavy amount of post processing. There will be one more episode with old recording, and the possibility of echoes. This video has a lot of work being covered, but no fabrication. More of the engineering bits in the upcoming episodes.

https://youtu.be/zRcd0k4P1EQ

[Phil_SS]

Really liking it so far.

Must be fun to take apart a car and not give a shit about it going back together. Aka, if you scratch it here or break this plastic piece there it doesn't matter.

[Godson]

I have tried to preserve as much as I could, but there have been a few "fuck that design" moments.

But for the most part some of the parts are worthwhile and valuable. But the nice thing is, not having to put much of it back together after it has been removed.

I'll begin working on the next video this week. Once that is done I'll be up to date on all of the changes and video recording without any of the old stuff.

I *still* need to figure out the audio recording over BT with video. But things are definitely shaping up.

[retsmah]

I'm only a minute and a half in, but the oil cooler reminds me of a team with a Ferrari we had in World Challenge back when I worked for SCCA Pro (it's getting to be a long time ago, like 2007-2010, and I don't remember the model). The team was asking to relocate some coolers from a similar position out at the front corners because they were so easily damaged in actual wheel to wheel racing.

edit: I was curious about the earbuds and bluetooth audio, I had suggested a clip on mic but it does seem like the earbuds would likely provide equally good audio, if you're getting audio from them! In any case the audio you've got is not really a problem, just an area for possible improvement. The audio starting at 1:00 in the video sounds really good, to me at least!

I'm probably just dating myself at this point, but again back when I worked in World Challenge the Corvettes had the biggest throttle bodies at, as I recall, 90mm diameter, the Maserati looks about the same! I don't know about more modern cars are through.

[Godson]

It's comical how shit of a location it is. What's worse, I don't really have a better place for it on the Scion on initial thought. We shall see though. I'm nowhere near figure out that stuff just yet

[retsmah]

I think I was actually remembering the Gallardo's radiators, which are in a similar location!

4031

[dodint]

Cool skid plates, bro. :lol:

[Phil_SS]

Honestly, put them where you want them. Cut a hole, make a scoop and a duct. :D

A duct on the top of the car could be pretty cool. Or add some NACA ducts to the sides.

[Godson]

Man, that location is fantastically bad.

[Godson]

Latest video is up. It is still being processed by Youtube, so the quality will improve as time goes by.


The sound is less than optimal, for a few reasons. My buddy Chad was helping film some of the things, and the mic was picking up his hands on the phone. I am going to be working diligently to eliminate this entirely. It has been maddening during the editing of this video.

I am getting increasingly excited for this projet, and I hope you are aswell.

https://youtu.be/Bbi2UyNUQkY

[Godson]

Current video is delayed, I spent 3 hours editing yesterday and didn't like the way it was going.

So I scrapped it.

I stopped to watch the super bowl, and will get it up later this week.

I do have a few teasers for a later installment.


Current tire height is 24.6in tall, and the tires I want to run are 27.2in tall....

Cutoff wheel will go reeeeeeeeee

4042

[dodint]

I have the springs from the X5 if you want them. ;)

[Phil_SS]

Current video is delayed, I spent 3 hours editing yesterday and didn't like the way it was going.

So I scrapped it.

I stopped to watch the super bowl, and will get it up later this week.

I do have a few teasers for a later installment.


Current tire height is 24.6in tall, and the tires I want to run are 27.2in tall....

Cutoff wheel will go reeeeeeeeee

4042

Is that because you want to run a larger wheel? Like 20's or summat?

[Godson]

I want to run a larger tire both in width and in height. Because running a 400hp car with 24.5 in tall tires is a little foolish, and finding a wide 24.5 in tall tire isn't really possible.

[CudaMan]

Chonky! Been there with 295/40-18s on Zs, they can look a little big even on that car. That's 27.3" diameter.

Something like a 295/35-18 isn't enough? 26.1"

[samoht]

This project is awesome, thanks for keeping us up to date with it.

I also noticed there are a bunch of decent-looking N/A quad-cam V8s, Maserati, Aston, Jag, AMG, BMW among others. Which all seem to be crying out to be liberated from their automatic gearboxes and luxury barge bodies, and transferred into something small, light, balanced and RWD like a GT86. Great project.

I also recall seeing a GT86 with a V8 made out of superbike engines at TAS a good few years back, but that's probably a lot more extreme, I think a good spread of torque and driveability is beneficial.

The RX-7 was similar in size, weight and layout and ran 255/40 R17s at the back, but that was only 330hp or so. I can imagine you'd want more tyre tho, extra margin for accelerating while turning.

[Godson]

Chonky! Been there with 295/40-18s on Zs, they can look a little big even on that car. That's 27.3" diameter.

Something like a 295/35-18 isn't enough? 26.1"

I may go that route depending on what I find out after I get the Mas suspension geometry all measured out. I don't want to just choose something without sound rationale. One of the reasons for the 27.2 tall tire, is it mimics the tire diameter of the GT4 granturismo, and should allow me pretty good geometry to start with. Another advantage of the 20's in the 1LE tire size is the Goodyears are about 100 a tire cheaper than the other options. The tire size is also beginning to get a few more choices to boot. Nothing is set in stone yet with these sizes, and the suspension won't happen until after nationals as a "winter project".



This project is awesome, thanks for keeping us up to date with it.

I also noticed there are a bunch of decent-looking N/A quad-cam V8s, Maserati, Aston, Jag, AMG, BMW among others. Which all seem to be crying out to be liberated from their automatic gearboxes and luxury barge bodies, and transferred into something small, light, balanced and RWD like a GT86. Great project.

I also recall seeing a GT86 with a V8 made out of superbike engines at TAS a good few years back, but that's probably a lot more extreme, I think a good spread of torque and driveability is beneficial.

The RX-7 was similar in size, weight and layout and ran 255/40 R17s at the back, but that was only 330hp or so. I can imagine you'd want more tyre tho, extra margin for accelerating while turning.

I looked at Aston, and alot of those engines are still 10k+ USD vs the F136 for 5 or so, with a spare car included. I thought about the BMW V8's, but the weight was a turn off. I didn't even think to look at AMG or Jag, because I just saw more dollars signs. Part of the tire size choice is due to aero loads. I am going to be running some pretty aggressive aero if everthing plays out ok.

I should have the new video up shortly.

[Godson]

Latest video is up and being processed by YouTube.

https://youtu.be/-jQtJzS6qq4

I need to get the Maserati suspension geometry figured out so I can figure out tire sizes, etc.

[Godson]

new video will be posted on Wednesday!!!

[dodint]

Rad.

[Godson]

Latest video is up!


https://youtu.be/ctwqoi-Rc2I

[Phil_SS]

Good stuff! enjoying it. :)

[George]

And, thankfully, less plumber's crack than in dodint's latest video. :p

[dodint]

You get what you pay for.

[Godson]

I mean, I can add it in for the next video...

[Kchrpm]

Hey, leave the butt+car content to the professionals!

[George]

:lol:

[Godson]

If Google pays me and I have some butt content, wouldn't that make me a professional?

[Kchrpm]

No.

[Godson]

Your definition of professional is lacking.

[Godson]

Latest video is up!

https://youtu.be/0xP7xb-necQ

[retsmah]

Sort of related watching your latest video, one of my regrets with my garage space is that when I moved in with my (now) fiance I didn't get the garage floor epoxy coated before moving stuff into the garage and starting to build storage and stuff. That oil spill wouldn't clean up as nicely for me I think!

[Godson]

The epoxy coating is SOOOOOOO good.


However, it is dangerously slick with any oil or fluids on it, even with the texture added in. Which is why you watch me walk around so trepidiously when I am cleaning it up.

[Godson]

Newest video should be up in 1 hour!

[Godson]

https://youtu.be/ew9MVnGdVus

You'll notice I bought a Lapel microphone, I hope the sound quality is better. Of note, I didn't own it before I started recording some of the early clips in the video.

[CudaMan]

Making good progress on the car! I'm really curious to see how these next steps go.

[Phil_SS]

Agreed. Should be interesting to see how it goes once you start to marry up the bits.

[Godson]

I have also been messing around in CAD. All I am going to say is, I was sort of dreading CAD, and for good reason. It is completely different from how I have fabricated in the past, and I am starting on one of the hardest possible things, splined shafts.


I've spent the better part of 2 hours reading about automotive splines....


I still didn't learn what I was trying to learn.


Ugh.

[Phil_SS]

If you need help in CAD let me know. It's a staple of my job.

[Godson]

This is very useful information....

[Godson]

Latest video is LIVE. I hope you guys enjoy it!

​​​​​​
https://youtu.be/ynzo5gh3etU

[CudaMan]

I'm learning things!

[Godson]

Let's hope these learnings are useful!

[CudaMan]

I knew what a torque tube was, roughly, but had never seen one or understood its advantages.

[Godson]

Yeah, they can be advantageous in certain applications, but once you start making big power, you can bend the outer tube.

Most big power guys, 1k+ hp, like to eliminate them.

[Godson]

So....


I needed to clearance the rear subframe so I could get the transmission into a rough placement.


By clearance, I mean I literally cut out 12in of the entire front crossmember of the the rear subframe.

I move the transmission into place, and it's going to be TIGHT. Doable, but a tight fit.

I start to measure how far back I need to move the assembly, and it's about 3.25 in. I do a quick check and I'd need to notch out about 7 inches wide and about 3 inches vertically to clear the rear crossmember of the subframe.

At this point, it will be easier to make a jig from a good subframe and build a subframe from scratch.

Problem is, I just cut out 12inches from a previously good one....

There is one locally for 150$...

Sadly, I wouldnt have been able to see this unless I did this.

[Godson]

I'll dig more into that on Sunday when I have more steel tubing. I'm going to just work with the one I have, for now.

I was able to completely disassemble the Maserati F1 actuator, I will have a breakdown of this on the next video. And how I will be taking the entire thing apart. I am still trying to figure out how I want to reuse a few pieces, and make my own.
4085

[dodint]

How are you looking for Ozarks? I want to see this thing go around in circles real fast.

[Godson]

Hmmmm....tough to tell at this point. Transaxle currently sits about 1.5-2in below the body line, and I don't really have much more space to work with on the stock subframe.

*IF* it makes it to Ozarks, it probably won't be driven with any real anger. Aggressive, but not true anger.

The major hold up is most likely going to be how quickly I can have things manufactured...

[Godson]

Who am I fooling. It won't happen by July. August is plausible.

[Godson]

So while I was waiting for some fabrication tools and part to show up, I went ahead and did a video on the Ferrari/Maserati/Aston Martin/Lambroghini..... F1 Actuator assembly. I hope it isn't too dull. Next shift will be a lot more mayhem and entertainment!

.....EDIT: There is a glitch with the sound of the video, I am looking into this issue right now. I hope to have something upploaded in the next few hours.

[Godson]

I thought I posted a fixed video... apparently I hadn't.

https://youtu.be/g6X9rSRn5lo

[Godson]

Latest *shift* is up, and there is some controlled destruction in it! I hope you guys enjoy!

https://youtu.be/9HO5GuCLqKQ

[George]

Very cool. :up:

[Godson]

Very cool. :up:

Thanks! I hope I can make the videos more entertaining with time!

With that, the latest shift is UP

https://youtu.be/ipRHRdrUyfY

[CudaMan]

Nice, doing work! Is the video unlisted for a reason?

Can't wait to see this thing running and tracking, but continue to take your time doing it right. :)

[Godson]

Shiiiiiiiit.


I was having a hard time figuring out why it was performing poorly.

[Godson]

Long time since an update, stay tuned.

4125

[Phil_SS]

3D printed or machined? Looks printed. And what material are they made out of?

[Godson]

Printed, and whatever was cheapest.

Local guy made these up for me for 220$ for the pair. Turn around time is pretty much whatever time it takes to print them out. I've had some parts in as little as 12 hours.

[Godson]

Latest video is live, with a small amount of mad scientist work being shown!

https://youtu.be/v6Daw_EDDmM

[retsmah]

Getting caught up on the videos, making a lot of progress!

Do you have a machine shop you're planning on using to make those torque tube ends for you?

[Godson]

I have one local one in mind, but I want to see what they say first before I commit to anything. What would be really nice is if I could have a shop make the flanges, make the input shafts, and then weld up the aluminum tube for me once I know how long it needs to be.

Do you have any thoughts or ideas?

[retsmah]

At my last job I was doing a lot of CNC machined parts through some of the big online services with good results. We had a couple local shops we'd use for particularly complicated/difficult parts, which would cost more. I think parts like those ends you have 3d printed prototypes of would be totally reasonable to send to an online service.

fictiv (http://fictiv.com) would be my first stop for those parts, you can just upload your CAD and get a quote instantly. Even if you end up going local it can still be helpful for just getting an idea of roughly where pricing will come in on the parts, if you haven't had anyone look at them yet.

xometry (xometry.com) and hubs (http://hubs.com) are similar services, as of like 9 months ago they tended to be more expensive, but prices can jump around pretty quickly so that may have changed.

All of these places have a standard tolerance somewhere between +/-.005 and +/-.002, and you can add a drawing to call out tighter tolerances where you need them. If you've just got a bearing bore that needs a tighter tolerance that usually doesn't add too much cost from the automatic quote, so if you just upload CAD without a drawing you probably won't be far off on pricing.


You may already have an idea on pricing, but if it not I think it'd be a good idea to just upload to one or two of the above services and see if it's in the ballpark of what you're expecting!

[dodint]

My brother likes SendCutSend.

[retsmah]

I guess I should say the key thing I learned the last couple years working on prototype UAVs (which don't have all the ITAR and traceability requirements you'd have on a rocket) is that fictiv, hubs and xometry all make good parts and can hit tolerances you'd need for installing bearings, I wouldn't be worried about sending those parts to one of those services if that ends up being a good option!

[retsmah]

My brother likes SendCutSend.

Second for SendCutSend if you need laser cut parts! I've preferred them over any of the other vendors I mentioned for laser cut stuff.

[Godson]

There is a LOT of useful information.

Is there any particular reason why you suggest SCS over OSHcut?

[retsmah]

No, not for me. One of my coworkers had used sendcutsend and so I used it too. Looks about the same as OSHcut, if you've been using them I wouldn't have any reason to switch unless you compare prices and sendcutsend is cheaper!

[Godson]

Fictiv came in at 54% higher cost than xometry....

I'm going to keep cleaning up until I have it down and then I'll figure out who to use.

[retsmah]

Fictiv seemed really low back when I was using them last, I was wondering if they were just keeping prices artificially low at the time.

I should have noted, Fictiv gives you the option to do domestic or overseas, I always used overseas unless I couldn't wait the couple extra days. Xometry and hubs I think are only overseas, I don't think they have a domestic option. The two big benefits of these services are access to overseas machine shops, and very fast mostly automated quoting systems. Xometry, hubs and fictiv don't actually own any machines, they are just platforms that work as middle men between clients and machine shops.

If you have a desire to keep the machining domestic then the options are a little different, a local shop is probably a good option then.

Protolabs (https://www.protolabs.com/) is kind of different from the above services in that they are the machine shop, and their whole thing is their machining is highly automated. They're very quick with a 3 day standard lead time, you can usually expedite that down to 1 day turnaround, surface finishes tend to be kind of crappy, and they can't take a drawing or do tighter tolerances than their standard +/-.005. They can tap holes, I have to think at some point they'll add the ability to ream holes to tighter tolerances. As of about a year ago they had added economy options that make the lead times more like 7-10 days and reduce price.

Protolabs can be an option for parts with bearing bores if you send CAD with undersized bores and either finish the bore yourself or have a local shop do it. That can work out okay because you usually won't need a big CNC machine shop, a small shop with a manual mill can finish bores if the parts aren't impossible to fixture.


Anyway... apparently I have a lot of thoughts on this! Do you have an alloy in mind for the torque tube?

[Godson]

This is more very useful info!!!


My first thought is 6061 aluminum. But I honestly don't have any real knowledge on what I should be using. The Corvettes used cast aluminum for the trans and clutch sides of the torque tube, the tube itself is some sort of extruded aluminum from what I can tell.


What are your thoughts?

[retsmah]

I haven't done any work with aluminum weldments, so I've got no thoughts other than having to check weldability! Ideally my process for welded stuff is to try to pick out a shop/welder before starting to purchase/make anything, show them what I'm doing and get any feedback they have, make sure it's materials they can weld and they're comfortable with being able to do it.

[TheBenior]

Most of my knowledge of 6061 vs 7075 comes from firearms parts and accessories, but...

7075 isn't generally considered weldable, while 6061 is.

6061 generally has better heat and environmental corrosion resistance.

While 7075 is considered more 'difficult' to machine due to the higher yield strength, individual machinists may find it easier to machine in spite of the extra cutting tool wear. 6061 gets criticized as getting 'gummy' when machined.

With that in mind, the advantages of 6061's 'easier' machinability and extrudabilty may be more fully utilized in heavily automated processes.

With scope mounts, using 7075 over 6061 allows a 10-15% weight savings, but often doubles the price. US made 6061 scope mounts tend to be double the price of mystery aluminum alloy made in China mounts.

[retsmah]

I do have a couple thoughts on aluminum selection that may not be helpful, depending on how much you already know / have researched:

When you see an aluminum alloy like 6061-T6, 6061 is the alloy, T6 is the temper or heat treatment. Some of the most common alloys used for machined parts benior mentioned, 6061, 7050 and 7075, you'll usually see in -T6 or -T651 tempers, which results in the highest strength.

6061-T6 is weldable, but the weld and some heat effected zone around the weld will lose strength since it's been melted and is no longer in the -T6 condition. For your part as-welded strength is probably* the number you care about, so it can make sense to use a lower strength material that isn't as impacted by welding, something like 5052. A little googling found this table:

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edit: I can never attach stuff without it being tiny. It's from this pdf (https://www.hobartbrothers.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Aluminum_Welding_Guide.pdf)it looks like!

While 6061-T6 has a 45ksi ultimate strength before welding vs. 35ksi for 5051-H32, the strength after welding is slightly higher for 5052-H32, and it may be an easier material for the welder to work with. If you find a welder that looks to be good with aluminum structures they'll probably have some input on what they think.

I do have experience heat treating aluminum, and I'd say that wouldn't be reasonable for this type of project, it's fairly complicated/expensive.



*I say probably because I don't have a great feel for what drives the thickness of a torque tube, it's possible that you only really need like .040" wall thickness or something to handle the stress from engine torque and they're made .125" thick to handle being installed or having wrenches dropped on them or whatever.

[Phil_SS]

Paging NickT!

[dodint]

Nick makes fiber optic cable connectors now.

[Phil_SS]

Nick makes fiber optic cable connectors now.

But he is a qualified machinist. Thus he may be able to lend his expertise on the machining and materials.

[dodint]

Indeed. Was just putting the information out there as a general nugget of trivia.

The nature of the products he makes has been something of a running gag for a few years now. :lol:

[Godson]

Literally, gag.

[Phil_SS]

Could be worse, he could be making connectors for Assman.

[Godson]

:lol:

This designing shit is for the birds...


I hope to have a video at some level next week, but god damn I don't think I will have shit to use.

[Godson]

So, I have the basic design of my "shift selector housing" along with all of the bushings, seals, and the rod itself. Some of these parts will need additional machining, but I am getting ahead of myself.


I have pulled a few favors for some parts to be made considerably cheaper than what I was quoted for, We shall see if I what I have drawn up will work. I am pretty sure it will be an absolute failure... More infor when I have it.

[Godson]

I am still waiting for some odds and ends to be delivered.

I designed a bronze bushing for the shift housing that has o-rings in it, once the bushing shows up I can finalize the housing for the shifter and get it made and move onto the cable linkage next.

I'm also waiting on a few more parts to be 3D printed for the torque tube. I have the basic design for the transmission side of the driveshaft to transmission input shaft made up and a friend is printing it. Once that is done, I can test assemble all of the components for the torque tube on the transmission side. I'm having to make a slight redesign of the clutch side of the torque tube flange to allow the higher engine speed of the F136 to not nuke the bearing that works for the Corvette. I hope to have that figured out and finalized pretty quick.

Once that is all done, I will be able to start the process of mounting the engine and transmission!

[Godson]

So, the deadline for this build is 8 weeks.

Ain't no fucking way that will happen.

*Sigh*

I'm pretty bummed about it because it means I probably won't be able to go to Nationals a second year in a row.


I shouldn't be surprised, as what I am doing is a serious undertaking, but the realization hit this weekend as I was going over some of the final steps of checking over a few drawing before I send them off for manufacturing.

The good news is, I won't be lighting money on fire for nationals and I can focus on things I have been putting off around the house. I'm just worried about losing the momentum of it all.

I haven't posted a video or done anything worth showing in a month and that's starting to frustrate me also.

Just venting.

[George]

The good news is, I won't be lighting money on fire for nationals and I can focus on things I have been putting off around the house.

Delaying fun isn't fun, but cleaning/fixing/working on the house can be its own reward.

[dodint]

We could go to Road Atlanta in November. *cough*

[Godson]

We could go to Road Atlanta in November. *cough*

Lol.....


:twitch:

[CudaMan]

Bummer. I've been there. I could have scrambled in 2013 to make my 300ZX "ready" for Nationals, been super stressed under that deadline, and had a car there that was not at all sorted. Instead I decided (with the good fortune to have codrive offers come my way easily, I admit) to stop working on my car for a few days, codrive with someone else, and just have a relaxed enjoyable Nationals experience. Zero regrets. I was in a good headspace and came out of that Nationals with a girlfriend. ;)

[Kchrpm]

What a flex lol

[Godson]

I. Duly note your input.

[Godson]

Ok, I just placed the order for my shift selector housing assembly. After seeking the input from the famous retsmah, I made some minor changes to the plans on the design.

I ended up having the threads cut into the design so I didn't have to deal with the effort, and possibly breaking a tap inside of a something so important.

Here is a quick photo o f what I have 3D printed...

topside view
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The housing I have designed in relation to the Ferrari/Maserati actuator
4141
Underside of my design
4142


ETA on this part is 3 weeks.

I have the input shafts for the propeller shaft of the torque tube drawn up and pretty much finalized. My next step on this is to get that put into an engineering drawing and the machine shop will get that part rolling, add that to another thing I have never done before and need to learn. the material will be in 8620 and then heat treated. roughly 8-10 weeks out on this at the earliest.

Clutch input shaft
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Transmission input shaft
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The Shifter selector rod is currently with the machine shop and should be getting cut within the next few days. Once I have that done, I will run it over to a plating company and have it coated with electroless nickle to allow it a super smooth and low resistance finish. Just like the manually shifted and controlled Ferrari/Maserati cars. I *might* have it done within the next 2-3 weeks.

4145

[dodint]

Famous retsmah is the best.

[Godson]

I'm on cloud 9 right now.

4161

Black is the 3D printed flange I designed. Copper is the endshaft for the Corvette Driveshaft, with Maserati splines. 3D printed.

I forgot to add in the threads for the end shaft, so I can't bolt the Corvette Driveshaft to the design. That will be in the final test part before I have the real parts made.

[George]

Impressive. :up:

[Godson]

New video up.

Has nothing really to do with the project, but it does have me being creative. I am still waiting on parts to show up and the wait is killing me.

https://youtu.be/H-PybaVdAvI?si=lIV-L7t79BSp060p

[Godson]

Alright, which one of you wimps unsubbed...

[Godson]

Also, new video is up!

[CudaMan]

How satisfying to see the engine in the bay! Is there a smaller diameter brake booster you can get that would allow you to move the engine further back? Or will you be able to lower the engine enough to tuck it under the booster (hope your valve cover gaskets are good!)?

[Godson]

I've thought about that... And others.

https://www.chasebays.com/collections/toyota-86-fr-s-subaru-brz/products/chase-bays-dual-piston-brake-booster-delete-with-bolt-on-6-1-pedal-ratio?variant=41700242849961

Or using to Ford Hydro boost...

I have a few options, for sure.

[Godson]

I should add, the engine mounts that I designed on the chassis side allow for a fair amount of side to side play, and some front to back play, so I should be good to mount it, and if I ditch the booster for more space, it should be too bad to just "slide the engine back"

[CudaMan]

I definitely like unboosted brakes on a race car, provided I have enough leverage with the pedal ratio. Simply removing the booster from the chain in a 370Z with stock pedals, as an example, is no good. I physically can't push the brake hard enough to generate enough line pressure. Not even once, let alone repeatedly for 20 minutes. The 370Zs have an overboosted brake system IMO, only suitable for gentle street driving with a dainty foot. :p

That Chasebays product looks pretty cool!

[Godson]

I definitely like unboosted brakes on a race car, provided I have enough leverage with the pedal ratio. Simply removing the booster from the chain in a 370Z with stock pedals, as an example, is no good. I physically can't push the brake hard enough to generate enough line pressure. Not even once, let alone repeatedly for 20 minutes. The 370Zs have an overboosted brake system IMO, only suitable for gentle street driving with a dainty foot. :p

That Chasebays product looks pretty cool!

Factory pedal ratio is 4:1, those apparently increase to 6:1, so I have no idea on pedal force required to get good braking...

I'll ask in the FT forums...

[Phil_SS]

So cool to see the engine in the car. :D

[Godson]

Hey guys, I am wanting to have some hats made up to further drive the brand of the channel instead of just random hats I own.

Would anyone here be interested in one? I am just trying to get the cost down and to have a few for myself, not looking to make money off anyone. I am thinking about placing the order by the end of the week.

Oh yeah, the design is from our own Cam.

[George]

Sure, I’m in for one. :up:

[Godson]

Ok, once I get the colors figured out I'll finalize the idea and let you know a timeline.

In other news...

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[CudaMan]

Looks tight but it fits! Is there enough clearance to allow for the inevitable engine rocking or are your mounts going to be almost solid?

[Godson]

Looks tight but it fits! Is there enough clearance to allow for the inevitable engine rocking or are your mounts going to be almost solid?

There is actually a LOT of space, exhaust manifolds have enough space to easily remove the nuts holding them on without anything crazy. I'll get closer up photos for you guys.


Mounts are fore/aft tilt and currently poly. So side to side motion is zero to minimal. If the torque tube doesn't work out, I'll make appropriate changes and solid mount the engine and transmission.

[dodint]

So there is more room in the engine bay than I have in the X5. Cool.

[CudaMan]

I don't know enough to be certain, but I'd imagine having *some* vibration damping inherent in the motor mount materials would be a good thing in general. Poly sounds like a great and easy starting point, and hopefully a final solution. :up:

[Godson]

Latest video is processing and will be live tonight at 2200cst.

https://youtu.be/CbUOKwl_t1s

please give any feedback as for video layout, music, audio. I have made a LOT of changes to the layout, the way I do audio clips, and blending audio clip cuts into one another.

[Godson]

Just a little bit of an update while I wait for parts to show up...I know, I say it everytime I make a post...

I was able to get a 3D scan from a user on FT Club, and that was a MASSIVE help to make up some things. It allowed me the ability to use the scan data, and essentially form my brace to fit the subframe almost perfectly. Please see below.


I *could* have just made this from cardboard, and it might have been faster, but the finished product as this sits is repeatable. Which is super important to me in the case of something failing or getting destroyed in a collision, remeber, this is a track car first and foremost.

Let me know what you think.


4267

[dodint]

Subframe brace? Isn't the subframe supposed to do the bracing? :D

Looks like the transmission brace on the E46, but in a completely different location.

[CudaMan]

How has progress been going on this super awesome build Tyler?

[Godson]

Suuuuper slow.


The machine shop has the transaxle to help get the parts made for the torque tube propellor shaft, and because of that, I can't mount the transaxle, I can't do any exhaust work, because the engine location could change, I can't have the driveshaft made, and I can't have the torque tube assemblies built without any of that.

I'm trying to get as much pre-work organized so I can make a lot of things happen in quick succession, but it's hard to do this as so much is in limbo while I wait for 1 part to be made.

Luckily I've come up with a few ideas that should reduce cost, complexity, weight, and overall just be better. We shall see how that works out.

[XHawkeye]

:up: :up:

[dodint]

You have no slack on your critical path. Frustrating.

[Godson]

Here is a taste of what I have been up to.

Some of these parts exist in the metal. Others in plastic, some are still imaginary!

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7X9mG3tA6U/



Feel free to ask me any questions you may have!

[Godson]

annnnnnnnnnnd, I have some forward progress!!!!

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Photo 1: is the factory Maserati clutch housing output shaft.

4304

Photo 2 : we have 1 metal and finalized driveshaft coupler. This hardened steel part connects the propeller/driveshaft to the clutch output shaft. This part is entirely of my design, borrowing elements from Maserati and Chevrolet.

4305

Photo 3: is another of my designs, from scratch, that will mate the Maserati clutch and flywheel, to my driveshaft coupler from photo 2. This is a proof of concept, and does not need to be splined in any way shape or form.

4306

Photo 4: is my driveshaft coupler, inserted into the clutch housing output shaft I designed.

There is still a long way to go, but we are slowly getting there. This is design iteration like....200+ at this point. You might be asking why so many, or who cares. The truth is, one change creates major implications downstream, that require more changes....it can be a vicious circle. The point is, we are getting closer. This will happen, it just takes time.