MotoGP 2022

[JoeW]

Qatar GP in the books. Good race, fun to see some new faces winning. That Bastianini Ducati looked good. I liked the fresh paint scheme. The red/white/blue paint on the Ducati of Martin looked awesome as well.

[Dicknose]

Good to see it back.
I couldn't make it till race time (2am) so watched replay this morning

[JoeW]

Marquez practice highside one of the worst I’ve ever seen.

https://fb.watch/bVpVU2K4lh/

[Rare White Ape]

It's like he hit the eject button.

Reports say he is experiencing double-vision again.

Might be wise to retire at this point.

[Rare White Ape]

Put this bike straight into the museum in Noale.

https://www.mcnews.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2022-MotoGP-Rnd3-Argentina-QP-Aleix-Espargaro.jpg

[JoeW]

Yeah that was a great moment and a well fought race.

That track is really nice with a lot of very fast corners. It is very much a flow track and the Aprilia was just very composed compared to the Ducati which seemed like it wanted to break loose under power.

[Dicknose]

So I missed COTA, sounds like I need to watch a replay.

[JoeW]

Ummm yes. You do.

[JoeW]

Portugal is so fucking cool.

[Dicknose]

Yeah its a weird rollercoaster track and made all the more interesting with wet conditions. Qualifying was crazy, something like 6 riders beat 1st place after the flag to end the session, but 2 had a yellow flag and laps cancelled. Flag went and a few more got clean laps to set the fastest times.
Did you see the Moto2 crash? Had about the first 10 runners all come down in the same corner. First 3 all did highsides! Damp spot on track and first rider in too hot and everyone followed at the same pace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eCg1Def1ik

[JoeW]

Yeah the coverage I get from CNBC showed some highlights beforehand. That was ridiculous. We get those kind of rains here as well. They just had no idea…then they were on ice :)

[Freude am Fahren]

Yikes! I missed that when I watched the GP.

Reminds me of the crash at Le Mans a few years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCe5Lzfhs7g

[Dicknose]

And online comments like "what were the flag marshalls doing?" - well they aren't suppose to flag for rain, just oil etc. And they were quick when the first few went down, but the rest were so close behind and probably saw the crash before any flags. Also clearly too late to do anything, probably thinking the others were way too hot but we will be fine.

[Rare White Ape]

Also taking into account it was lap 1 of a race that started in poor conditions, and they're all between the ages of 15 and 25 years old and thinking "throttle goes brrrr lol"

[Alan P]

And online comments like "what were the flag marshalls doing?" - well they aren't suppose to flag for rain, just oil etc. And they were quick when the first few went down, but the rest were so close behind and probably saw the crash before any flags. Also clearly too late to do anything, probably thinking the others were way too hot but we will be fine.

Always thought the red and orange flag was ‘reduced adhesion’ no matter the cause.

[Freude am Fahren]

I think you're right, and they use it when rain starts to fall I think. But this was a drying track from earlier rain, right? So I think they should have known the conditions from the warmup lap.

[Rare White Ape]

Looks like Suzuki is out of MotoGP at the end of this season. They cite costs as the reason. Official announcement is imminent.

Joan Mir has been rumoured to be in talks with Repsol Honda, while Alex Rins has nothing on the table yet.

I say put Rins on the factory Aprilia to replace Espagaro and see what he can do.

[Freude am Fahren]

Don't know why you'd want to get rid of Aleix, he's doing great, unless the contract hold-up is indeed going to end badly.

[JoeW]

Yeah I just watched Jerez and Aleix got on the podium with a fine ride.

Marquez with another classic mid corner elbow save. Then on the last lap passing Miller he left probably a 50ft black stripe through a corner. Just good stuff.

MotoGp clearly has it right. From track to track the advantage swings from racer to racer. A guy could finish 1st on one track and be mid pack at another. I love that.

[Kchrpm]

I just watch the highlights on YouTube, and the Catalan GP at Barcelona is just full of weirdness.

[JoeW]

Oof. Same. Not sure I’ve ever seen that before.

What could have been really nasty…even horrifying…was how Nakagami’s head got sucked up into the rear wheel. I mean it could have easily snapped his neck and paralyzed or even killed him. As it is it really jerked his head around like a toy. I literally gasped when I saw it. So close…

[Dicknose]

And Aleix's effort at the chequered flag.
Has happened before, but I can't remember it in MotoGP rather than lower grades.
Id say rookie mistake, but he is not a rookie, over 200 races in that class alone.

[Kchrpm]

I didn't even see the head-tire impact when watching the main highlight package, I went back and looked for it after Joe's post and wow.

[Blerpa]

And Aleix's effort at the chequered flag.
Has happened before, but I can't remember it in MotoGP rather than lower grades.
Id say rookie mistake, but he is not a rookie, over 200 races in that class alone.

Biaggi in 500, IIRC.

[Dicknose]

Biaggi in 500, IIRC.
Might be right. I do remember it has happened, just not who/when. But your memory is probably better than mine.
I do remember his wheelie almost flip!!

[JoeW]

German GP most boring I’ve seen in years.

[Dicknose]

Yeah wasn't much of a race. There was probably just 1 pass in the top few and that was Jack slipping by on a mistake by Aleix.

[Kchrpm]

Can someone explain how _______ got bucked FORWARD, in FRONT of his motorcycle?

[Rare White Ape]

Are you talking about the one with 14 laps to go? Probably the rear suspension decompressing as the tyre gained and lost grip over and over, and a well-timed shut of the throttle.

My guess is an oscillation fed by tyre grip, TC from the ECU, and the rider's wrist moving about as he slowly came unstuck.

[JoeW]

Yeah that was a good one. I liked the onboard video footage of his feet going up and over :)

[Dicknose]

You hang on by your hands, just weight on feet+bum. So a kick to the bike will lift you up. You often see riders "sit up" when things go wrong, but you never see them let go until its either sliding or they are forcefully thrown from the bike.
If its a kick at the back (such as a "highside" when the back loses grip, then regains it) it can easily throw the rider up, holding on quickly makes the rider go forward more than the bike. As RWA said, combined with suspension and unfortunate timing of throttle it can give a big kick.

[Kchrpm]

So did he...do anything wrong, or was he doing the right thing and everything just went really wrong?

Do you know what I mean? Like, if you're in an open wheel car you're supposed to let go of the wheel before you hit the wall so you don't break your hands/wrists. Should he have let go earlier, or was it reasonable for him to be holding and trying to save it for as long as he did?

Not that I want to be accusatory of such an excellent rider, I'm just curious in general about riding in this extreme situation.

[Rare White Ape]

He probably cracked the throttle 5% too hard on exit, then was a passenger from there. There are so many variables that would contribute to it. To me, a hidden, and really hard one to calculate for is the changing diameter of the tyre as the lean angle changes. The ECU has to account for this and takes data from the gyros and lean angle sensors and matches it up with the known dimensions of the rubber.

As he was standing the bike up to get on the fatter part of the tyre, there may have been a slight delay between the signals and the ECU response, leading to inaccurate throttle retardation. And since most of the hanging-on is also done by the throttle hand, if the bike twitches or decelerates suddenly then all the body weight will be going through the arms and into the throttle. Gripping by the knees is also a thing, but you'd only do it to a certain degree if you're only expecting a certain amount of force.

It reminds me of a very humourous story of a friend who is a mad wheelie addict. He hopped on his Kawasaki ZZR1200 and proceeded to show off to everyone with a giant mono down the road, only to find that the fuel tank wasn't quite full enough to feed fuel to the engine when the bike was over 45 degrees, so it'd starve and suddenly drop down. And when it dropped, it would deliver fuel again, and my buddy was still holding the throttle open, so up it came, again to the point where it starved again.

Up-down-up-down. Each time the bike would smack him in the balls as his body struggled to keep up. All he had to do was let go of the throttle.

[Kchrpm]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, didn't realize there was so much going on in a MotoGP's ECU.

[JoeW]

Typically these incidents are the riders fault so I wouldn’t think too much about it being ECU induced. He had crashed earlier in a low side and rejoined angry and embarrassed because he’s the championship leader. These highsides aren’t uncommon. They vary in severity depending on how badly the rider misjudged his throttle input.

Traction control is designed to remove us from the old days where an elite rider’s skill and throttle control throughout the race on ever degrading tires made all the difference. But it still won’t save them from giving too much throttle at extreme lean angles.

[Dicknose]

And letting go of the bars might save you from going in front of the bike, but its not instinctive and might not actually help if you let go too soon - you could face plant into the bars.
Highsides are tricky - they feel like something you can control and get back and then they kick. Most tend to be a gentle slide with angle increasing. This one was an oscillation with feedback. Either way the explosive kick is coming but you aren't sure when.
Along with "tank slappers" (front wheel instability results in bars shaking back and forth hitting the fuel tank) they are pretty violent movement of the bike in a way that cars rarely do.

[JoeW]

Sometimes the rider even ends skating alongside the bike after being partially ejected :)

Most of these are highside saves. Looks like you have to click through to YouTube but it’s good.


https://youtu.be/DFlQJlDz2KU

Old Mamola save…


https://youtu.be/YNufVUSGlY8

[Dicknose]

Oh yeah - like a stunt rider or the old cowboy style. Beside, sidesaddle, back on and away you go!

[Kchrpm]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuungible token!

[JoeW]

Silverstone was quite good this weekend.

[Dicknose]

Yeah... also good that the championship is tightening a bit.

[JoeW]

Yeah not a Quartararo fan. Looking for someone to step up.

[Fiat500]

Damn, what a race!
Edge of the seat all the way!

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah it was a ripper.

[JoeW]

Not airing here for another 12hrs…grr

[Dicknose]

Brilliant race!

I didn't get down there, had to look after a mates teenagers while he was away. But heaps of bikes heading south as I headed north.

[JoeW]

Fuck! One of the best I’ve seen in a long time. Philip Island has so many great races through my years watching back in days of 500cc bikes. Some of the best on board shots too. High drama. Tough day for Miller but class act by Marquez.

Marc Marquez does so much with so little. He’s so smooth whereas many of the others are just brute forcing.

Funny that the day after Suzuki pulls out, they win a race.

Not a big Qua fan so it’s a good day.

[Dicknose]

Yeah bummer for the Miller/home fans. He was doing ok, I guess a bad lap had put him back a bit and into that battle.
Still it was a bad fuck up, dont often see them hit at those speeds in a slow corner.

[JoeW]

Nice little battle in Jerez.

[JoeW]

If you haven’t watched the French GP…do it…now.

[XHawkeye]

Sachsenring, the first time since 1969 that a Japanese motorcycle wasn't in the top ten.

[Dicknose]

Missed a couple while travelling, need to catch up.
But had "too much sport is not enough" lately and replays had slid down the list of things to watch

[Freude am Fahren]

Same here. Finished Germany last night. Gonna watch Holland today.

[JoeW]

Great race at Silverstone. Worth a watch.

[Dicknose]

Yeah Im a bit behind, was away and staying with friends.

[Fiat500]

That was a nasty start to the Catalunya race, I hope Bagnaia is ok...

[Fiat500]

Bagnaia got away with only contusions, some small hand and leg fractures for Bastianini. (https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2023/09/03/the-latest-update-on-bagnaia-and-bastianinis-injuries/477181)

[Rare White Ape]

Thanks for posting that. Good to know both are alright. F Bag's highside was one of the biggest seen in a while.

[Dicknose]

Followed up by behind run over.
Surprised he didn't badly injure his leg

[Dicknose]

Wow - they have swapped the main race and the sprint.
So sprint Sunday and main race Saturday.
This is because the weather forecast is bad (it's always bad for Melbourne!)

This seems to be a first.

[Fiat500]

OMG that Phillip Island final lap!

[Dicknose]

Yeah that was a stunner.
Feel sorry for Jorge, up by 4 secs at one point, to come so close.

[Rare White Ape]

I watched it from here.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1142874913087172739/1165128809889144964/IMG_3786.jpg

My mate who lives on Philip Island went to some European rounds last year and met some Czechia blokes who were massive Jack Miller fans. They hit it off and got invited to come to Australia. Of course, they also support Filip Salač in Moto2, so they have renamed Philip Island in his honour.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1142874913087172739/1165128365179674685/IMG_3780.jpg?ex=6545b959&is=65334459&hm=23bcbfbb494a86875b7887597136aaa3df215df8c46002d e54fa466cae2ca8b0&

[JoeW]

That track is so beautiful.

I feel sorry for the rest of the field when Marquez switches to Ducati next season.

This race being an anomaly, I have to say MotoGP hasn’t been the close racing lately that it has been known for. Anyone tuning in after several years hiatus will wonder what happened to Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha? And what the hell is Ducati, Aprilia and KTM doing dominating the sport?

I also feel like, and this is not based in fact…just my feelings based on nostalgia, the current overall talent level is much lower than back in 500GP days. These guys are riding super tame, electronically controlled bikes (in comparison to those of yesteryear) and yet they are still throwing them on the ground left and right at what seems like a much higher rate than those old guys.

But like I said…it may be me misremembering.

[Rare White Ape]

I can’t speak for the rate of crashing, but when they do crash it’s a much higher speed. The level of grip and the electronics mask how hard they are to ride.

Up until even the late 2000s they worked really well with loose, sloppy riding. All of the stars back then were brought up on dirt, so slidey dirt riding styles are what the bikes were designed around. Then they had to be ridden ultra smooth and ultra precisely. Jorge Lorenzo was a pioneer of that style and that’s what Yamaha built for him. That’s the way Honda seemed to have went too. Now they can’t build a bike for him.

Meanwhile Ducati and KTM have happened across a configuration that favours a wider range of riding styles. The Japanese have bikes that can’t be ridden to match the engineering, while the Europeans have bikes that can be ridden by a bunch of the best guys.

However, among all of the bikes, the way they are ridden now is almost a different language to what they had 5 years ago. The difference I mention is only a few percentage points. I don’t think Casey Stoner or Lorenzo would have a good time on them unless they were able to rapidly adapt to the way the electronics and aerodynamics work these days.

[Dicknose]

Yeah not sure if the talent is different. We have had weak periods, I think when both Rossi and Doohan dominated the depth wasn't there.

As for the crashes, I think at least in Marquez case its that the knows he should be at the front but isn't and is taking risks and pushing to and past the limit to keep up. When he had a competitive bike he made much fewer mistakes.

[JoeW]

It just seems like the top guys throw it away in a silly low side for no reason sometimes. Last week Jorge had it in the bag and just threw it down. Bagnaia has done it several times over the years. These guys have premium grip, downforce, traction control, mapping, communication with the pit…I don’t know, just seems like they should be less crashy.

Marquez is going to crush these guys next year on a Ducati if they can set it up for him.

Silly aside…not sure if you guys get the same broadcast as we do but I really hate that the track position monitor on the left side of the screen doesn’t update live like F1. There is such a huge delay and it pisses me off that they can’t fix that.

Also love when Simon Crafar calls it perfectly…he perfectly predicted Martin’s struggles by choosing the soft tire. On like the first couple of laps he said it I’ll be damned if he wasn’t right on the money…to the exact lap when his lap times would start to fall off a cliff. I remember him from the old days…good dude.

[Kchrpm]

I meant to ask what was up with Marquez, was he still in recovery or what, but overriding inferior machinery seems like a reasonable explanation for what I've seen in the highlights packages.

[JoeW]

Jeezus what a race in Thailand. Fucking ballsy pass attempt by (insert name here) on the penultimate lap. Then the penalty on (insert name here) was such a gift for (insert name here).

[Fiat500]

Acosta sure is entertaining to watch.

Marquez is getting to know his Ducati, and also Bagnaia's Ducati.

New thread? New title?

[JoeW]

Make it so :)

I was going to post about race 1 but I didn’t know if anyone was watching.

[Rare White Ape]

Just update the name of this thread. We post here so rarely that it’s worth using the one thread.

Also, it’s ok to post spoilers here. As long as you aren't doing something like, say, putting Indy 500 spoilers in an F1 thread, it’s fine because you know to avoid it.