Formula 1 2024

[Rare White Ape]

Let's kick this thread off in style:

"Stake F1 Team Kick Sauber"

That's the name... it's the actual name of Sauber next year.
https://www.sauber-group.com/motorsport/f1-news/streaming-giant-kick-com-secure-sauber-motorsport-chassis-naming-rights-for-2024-and-2025

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBVCenbXkAAJcpX?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Kchrpm]

No. What? No.

[Fiat500]

And no driver changes, that's unusual.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Kick should sponsor Haas!

They could’ve been one Kick Haas team!

[Rare White Ape]

No. What? No.

To us it’ll always be Sauber.

[Tom Servo]

I can't tell if title sponsorship by an online gambling outfit and a streaming service is better or worse than the old Marlboro days.

[Rare White Ape]

Meanwhile I use that streaming service to deliver freebooted live racing content from IndyCar and the NASCAR lower divisions.

Kick is actually owned by the same people who own Stake. None of them are Australian but Kick is registered as an 'Australian' company. Wikipedia says it has reduced moderation compared to Twitch, and its UI is an almost exact copy of Twitch. It's fuckin weird. I wonder how all this will go down once it reaches into the realm of needing increased legitimacy.

But, hey. If Peter Sauber needs sponsorship dollars by the million, he's probably not going to bat an eyelid when he's told what sort of companies are providing those millions.

[Tom Servo]

"Reduced moderation" as in "enjoy our local nazi content" or as in "enjoy quasi-legal likely-pirated video feeds"? Or porque no los dos?

[Blerpa]

And no driver changes, that's unusual.

First time in F1 history, actually.
EDIT: although Alpha Tauri started 2023 with De Vries, now it will start 2024 with Ricciardo.

[FaultyMario]

MoneyGram Haas F1 Team has appointed Ayao Komatsu as its new Team Principal with Guenther Steiner departing the organization.

##

[Blerpa]

McLaren reveals new-look 2024 F1 livery ahead of MCL38 launch (https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-2024-f1-livery-mcl38-launch/10566302/)

https://i.imgur.com/q8JtaD7.png

[Rare White Ape]

Looks like a jumbled mess, the same as last year’s livery.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, not the best looking McLaren but if they can continue to challenge for wins, I don’t really care how they look! :p

[samoht]

There does seem to be a trend of drivers staying with teams longer, which I guess 2024's unchanged lineup is the culmination of.

Senna, Prost and Mansell all averaged less than three years between team moves.

Schumacher drove for four teams over 20 years, so average five years per stint; Hakkinen also five.

Hamilton has driven for two teams over 16 years, so eight years/team. Verstappen could be considered to have driven for either one or two teams over his decade so far, depending how you see Toro Rosso.

The only exception is good old Fernando, who's on his eighth stint over 24 years, so more in keeping with the drivers of the past.

(Numbers may be slightly arguable depending how you interpret sabbaticals etc, but the averages do paint the picture).


Nowadays the #SillySeason is more about which team principal is in, out, up or down.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ever dwindling # of teams meant less options for drivers and contributed to the drivers to stay longer?

There could also mean some really talented drivers might have been washed out of F1 prematurely in lousy teams unable to go anywhere else?

If Renault designed a car particularly bad for Schumacher, things might not have worked out for him? Likely, if Vettel had a bad Toro Roso car for him and/or faced Ricciardo earlier in his career, he might never move up to Redbull?

If Cudaman could get the opportunity to drive for RedBull Renault earlier, it might’ve been him who’s the multi champ rather than Vettel! :p

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEm5FlzWMAA_aHs.jpg

[Blerpa]

And the Oscar for Worst Name Ever of a F1 team goes to...

[FaultyMario]

this one is tacky... i think one of the stillborn projects of around the time of Haas' entrance had a worse name.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Have to agree Visa Red Bull sounds weird.

Visa should sponsor Williams. Visa Williams sounds like some top notched tennis star! :p

[Blerpa]

Have to agree Visa Red Bull sounds weird.

Visa should sponsor Williams. Visa Williams sounds like some top notched tennis star! :p

Is not Visa Red Bull.
It is Visa Cash App RB.

And Red Bull has gone great lenght in the last few days to underline in interviews that "RB" does *NOT* means Red Bull: allegedly it should just mean RB as the chassis is named that way. Realistically it should be related to Racing Bulls monicker... but Red Bull denies that.

[FaultyMario]

But "Racing Bulls" is how it was submitted to the FIA, innit?

[Alan P]

Lando signs new 'Multi-year' contract: https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula-1/2024/mclaren-racing-announce-multi-year-contract-renewal-with-lando-norris/

He was contracted to the end of 2025 so likely this is at least to 2027, perhaps even 2028. I'd assume it also contains performance clauses on both sides otherwise it's a very long contract to sign if the car isn't good enough.

[Rare White Ape]

McLaren could also be securing him so that he can be 'sold' to another team (i.e. Mercedes if Hamilton retires) down the track.

[FaultyMario]

From what I read I don't think they've hired him for beyond 2025, the way i understand it is that both team and driver have agreed to make it harder for somebody else to hire him.

[Blerpa]

F1 rejects Andretti entry for now, but door open for 2028 (https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-rejects-andretti-entry-door-open-2028-cadillac/10571060/)

[FaultyMario]

Not even Bernie was this voracious.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Michael just doesn’t have any luck with F1!

However, FOM gave pretty compelling reasons though.

If Andretti is really that serious, maybe he should pay a big premium to buy out Haas.

[Rare White Ape]

Rumours of 'Hamilton shock move to Ferrari' abound this evening...

...depending on which headlines you read. Some also say 'Ferrari tyring to secure Hamilton', which has a totally different meaning.

It's all bullshit.

[Blerpa]

Not even Bernie was this voracious.

I mean, it's just Micheal Andretti - ex washed out second rate driver, and a team manager of a team merely important in North America.
It's not like Lotus or Brabham are coming back to F1 with backing from Toyota or Jeff Bezos.

I suppose it is always one thing: rose tinted glasses by american fans not having a clue about importance of things outside their little garden.
Not that Haas is that important either, mind.

EDIT: before someone gets angry, I was totally favourable to Andretti joining F1, nothing against it. But the comments I'm reading about americans are out of their minds, like China is invading the US or someone killed the POTUS.
Sheesh, it's just MICHAEL Andretti, people. Who the fuck cares in the globe?

[Rare White Ape]

Well something to consider is that F1 has been desperately trying to crack the US market for ages, and he current attempts have been bigger than ever. Why else do we have multiple races in a single country outside of Europe?

American motorsport IS big. It’s not as big to Europeans as it is to Americans, but there is a lot of money involved from big ticket sponsors, and F1 wants a slice.

So here’s an opportunity to have a real home-grown team added to the grid that represents American interests. The Andretti name with backing from GM? HAAS wishes it had that kind of money available.

So why does it keep getting shot down?

[JoeW]

Hamilton to Ferrari 2025. I'd be looking for a change as well...that's a long time in one place.

[Blerpa]

Well something to consider is that F1 has been desperately trying to crack the US market for ages, and he current attempts have been bigger than ever. Why else do we have multiple races in a single country outside of Europe?

American motorsport IS big. It’s not as big to Europeans as it is to Americans, but there is a lot of money involved from big ticket sponsors, and F1 wants a slice.

So here’s an opportunity to have a real home-grown team added to the grid that represents American interests. The Andretti name with backing from GM? HAAS wishes it had that kind of money available.

So why does it keep getting shot down?

Because FOM (not FIA) wants GM direct involvment right away (read a GM engine furniture), otherwise it is a stern no.
Also, the other teams are against it because 11 teams means less money for everyone.

[FaultyMario]

I mean, it's just Micheal Andretti - ex washed out second rate driver, and a team manager of a team merely important in North America.

EDIT: before someone gets angry, I was totally favourable to Andretti joining F1, nothing against it. But the comments I'm reading about americans are out of their minds, like China is invading the US or someone killed the POTUS.
Sheesh, it's just MICHAEL Andretti, people. Who the fuck cares in the globe?

Dude say what you will about Michael. I don't care. I might even agree with you.

But If the argument against an eleventh team was that FOM was "protecting the value" of F1, that argument falls on its lying little face the moment you consider:

1) Andretti Global had secured a commitment from General Motors to participate as a drivetrain provider with them. That is the sixth producer of automobiles in the world, ahead of Ford and Honda. Andretti's entrance would also provide some financial relief to Renault, as they had a deal with them for their first 2 years. Value is nothing if its creation can't be sustained.

2) Andretti, the brand.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFLuE4NXwAAazA4.jpg

This old dude is a household name for millions of people in the wealthiest countries on earth. Only young gamers know about Stake KICK, only people in manufacturing know about the Haas 3-axis mills. For many people however, Andretti rhymes with Italian wining and dining.

[FaultyMario]

Rumours of 'Hamilton shock move to Ferrari' abound this evening...

For years I've been saying that Hamilton will end his racing years in Ferrari. I have 2 reasons. Luigi like the money, Luigi lookin' for ways to keep making money. Luigi like the beautiful women, Luigi will work in the fashion. Nothing like the Ferrari for the prestige, nothing like Milano for the fashion.

He is just going to do a Kimi: take a job at a company located near to where his next business interests are, phone in his duties with said company and, in the meantime, negotiate and tie up any deals that may be beneficial for him in the long term.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude say what you will about Michael. I don't care. I might even agree with you.

But If the argument against an eleventh team was that FOM was "protecting the value" of F1, that argument falls on its lying little face the moment you consider:

1) Andretti Global had secured a commitment from General Motors to participate as a drivetrain provider with them. That is the sixth producer of automobiles in the world, ahead of Ford and Honda. Andretti's entrance would also provide some financial relief to Renault, as they had a deal with them for their first 2 years. Value is nothing if its creation can't be sustained.

2) Andretti, the brand.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFLuE4NXwAAazA4.jpg

This old dude is a household name for millions of people in the wealthiest countries on earth. Only young gamers know about Stake KICK, only people in manufacturing know about the Haas 3-axis mills. For many people however, Andretti rhymes with Italian wining and dining.

Commitment from GM might not mean much. Manufacturers like Honda could pull out at moment's notice. It won't be til 2028 until the engine rules stablizes... so that means Andretti team will have to rely on existing manufactures. Probably would have a better chance if Andretti partnered with Honda? Given that the 10 current teams don't want Andretti and it doesn't look like Andretti could come in competitively anyway... I kind agree with FOM on point 1.

However for point 2, I do agree with you that if you want to break in the US market, how can you not embrace an big name US team entry along with a big US manufacturer? Clearly there are politics at work... going against Andretti.

Just pay Haas a premium and buy his team out if he's really that serious... or just partner with him. Andretti Haas Chevy sounds cool. Unless if Haas and Andrettis don't get along?

[Crazed_Insanity]

For years I've been saying that Hamilton will end his racing years in Ferrari. I have 2 reasons. Luigi like the money, Luigi lookin' for ways to keep making money. Luigi like the beautiful women, Luigi will work in the fashion. Nothing like the Ferrari for the prestige, nothing like Milano for the fashion.

He is just going to do a Kimi: take a job at a company located near to where his next business interests are, phone in his duties with said company and, in the meantime, negotiate and tie up any deals that may be beneficial for him in the long term.

Wonder which driver will Ferrari get rid of if Hamilton signs?

[FaultyMario]

Charles is under long-term contract.

[Blerpa]

Dude say what you will about Michael. I don't care. I might even agree with you.

But If the argument against an eleventh team was that FOM was "protecting the value" of F1, that argument falls on its lying little face the moment you consider:

1) Andretti Global had secured a commitment from General Motors to participate as a drivetrain provider with them. That is the sixth producer of automobiles in the world, ahead of Ford and Honda. Andretti's entrance would also provide some financial relief to Renault, as they had a deal with them for their first 2 years. Value is nothing if its creation can't be sustained.

2) Andretti, the brand.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFLuE4NXwAAazA4.jpg

This old dude is a household name for millions of people in the wealthiest countries on earth. Only young gamers know about Stake KICK, only people in manufacturing know about the Haas 3-axis mills. For many people however, Andretti rhymes with Italian wining and dining.

It's not that I do not agree with you: I explained what FOM and the 10 teams think, not me.
Also, it is a ploy to force GM to get in quick and 100%.
No GM, no Party.
No need to have a big name if there is no substance behind it (and Alpine may fold like tomorrow, so it is not a certain entity to rely upon, something F1 is not right now completely happy about) - F1 did not give a damn when Prost - can we agree he is one of the biggest names of modern F1? - crashed and burned: get in big or get lost (and still they had to tolerate stuff like HRT, Marussia and so on).
Billi resumed it quite correctly.

You do not have to explain to me, explain it to Liberty Media, which in Europe we (old farts) call the americans that are destroying F1 prestige and elegance with way too much clownery, way too many races and so on.
So you would think they would do anything to get that italo-american name in F1...
Baffles me but that's what F1 is and has been for a long time: "a closed elitist circle". No idea why people are surprised they are protectionists and very difficult to get someone new in at their capricious whims and bizarre demands.

[Blerpa]

Wonder which driver will Ferrari get rid of if Hamilton signs?

Sainz's entourage is allegedly royally pissed: seems the renewal contract was ready and they were only setting the date to sign it.
And now it is all up in flames.

Where will Sainz go after? Possibly Sauber for 2025 awaiting the team to shift completely to Audi's governance the year after.
What about Mercedes? De Vries (meh), Vandoorne (too old and burned), Albon (nice idea), Antonelli (I'd rather he did one year in a complacent smaller team like Williams or Mclaren to get his feet in), Norris (He just renewed but contracts are made to be severed if the right money and advantages come your way in F1, like discounted engines and/or and Antonelli loan for free), Alonso (why not?)... plenty of names available for Merc.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interim for Mercedes might be Alonso, but later on probably Norris?

Anyway, their 1st order of things should be their car. Looks like Mercedes has became the new McLaren? Well, other than RB, looks like pretty much all the teams have lost some shit and couldn’t get their shit together. Hamilton’s arrival won’t fundamentally change Ferrari.

What needs to happen is for Max to go somewhere else. I’d like to see Max win champions for Mercedes or Ferrari. ;)

Only way to do that is a new rule prohibiting championship winning teams from paying their drivers too much… force them to dump their defending champs and hire new rookies! :p

[FaultyMario]

The only thing that stands between Verstappen and a 4th WDC is Perez.

Think about it. Hamilton's withdrawal from his 2025 contract was triggered, if we are to believe press reports, by a performance clause. That means he saw the W15, got in the simulator, walked out of the simulator, picked up the phone to Maranello and went ’Buon giorno, Principessa!'

By announcing the signing to the public before discussing it with the Sainz camp, Ferrari have effectively nullified Carlos' willingness to be a wingman to Charles.

In short, the new Mercedes is shit and Ferrari won't put up a team effort against Verstappen, because they've alienated half their drivers.

Humanity's only hope rests on Checo's shoulders.

Humanity is doomed.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Maybe this will super charge Sainz's motivation and end up kicking Leclerc's ass!

And then the super confident Sainz returns to RB to kick Max's ass! ;)

I kinda feel bad for Russell though. It seems like he's doomed to drive a Williams... a more advanced Williams now, but still a freaking Williams. When will the kid get a break?

I can't imagine Checo will be able to stay on after 2024. Hopefully he gets his act together and show us what he can really do. I think his personal life definitely spilled over and ruined his on track performance a bit? I was really hoping to see Ricciardo taking over Checo's seat, but guess not. Why bother getting Ricciardo back just to put him in the Jr. team? That B team should be used to discover young talents.

Anyway, I really hope other teams have done their home work and closed the gaps between them and RB over the winter.

[Rare White Ape]

Well I’ll eat my hat about my statement that the Hamilton rumours are all bullshit.

And will now state that a 7 championship run was pretty good. Forget about an 8th!

[XHawkeye]

@Heinz Harald Frentzen: It doesn’t make sense, from the sporting aspect, to do the announcement so early. Lewis could be threaten not having the new development products on his car and also not being involved in future development. (https://twitter.com/frentzen_hh/status/1753076915471372496)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFRoquHb0AA6YdC.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

It is quite odd to make such announcement so early. It for sure doesn't make Mercedes team want to support you fully for 2024... and it also screwed over Sainz's year. They very well could just sign in secret and then announce it later...

Wonder what's the story behind this unbelievable move/announcement. I meant it kinda make sense Hamilton would like to be part of Ferrari's history before he retires, but this sudden move out of nowhere timing caught lots of folks off guard...

I also kinda doubt a driver would base his decision totally on just the simulator.

It's not like Mercedes has the best simulator out there... need to drive the real thing to be sure. Or perhaps Hamilton is seeing 1st hand that the Mercedes team is falling apart? You have to admit Hamilton might have a talent at detecting a sinking ship long before it became obvious... Who would've thought McLaren could be that bad. I really thought Hamilton was stupid to abandon McLaren..., but he definitely made the right call.

Anyway, 2024 looks like RB will proceed unchallenged again...

Unless Mercedes got super motivated to want to make Hamilton feel sorry...

And Sainz became super motivated and end up making Ferrari feel sorry...

[G'day Mate]

Kimi Anotnelli to Mercedes in 2025?

He'll still be older than Max was on debut.

Who else is a possibility ... Albon? Nando? Mick? Vesti? Maybe the Avocado even?

[FaultyMario]

From a management POV, front runners are Ocon and Mick.
Maybe Valtteri.

I don't know about Nando, but he might be in the hunt.
Hell, even Checo could have a chance to have one-season chance to prepare the car for Antonelli.

[FaultyMario]

"I am relieved they shut the F1 door on Andretti's face."

- Some guy, somewhere, I'm sure.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFjeAOmW0AAA6md.jpg

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFjd71TWYAAWQH5.jpg

At least with the render from Dorilton Racing the tires are lined up with the right side up.

They even added some cute bubbles in the livery wrap.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That Duracell sponsorship design is cool! :lol:

As with Andretti, yeah, he and F-1 was never really a good fit anyways... oh well. Or perhaps it's just poor timing?

Teammate with Senna while McLaren was way past it's prime? JV was way luckier as a driver.

Currently, this is also not a good season to be joining F-1... He also probably should've tried to partner with the more experieced Honda rather than GM.

[Rare White Ape]

What does Dorilton Racing refer to?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1070782085549265066/1204147233948172378/FB_IMG_1707161433265.jpg?ex=65d3ac80&is=65c13780&hm=35625eb7a51e6b7b196234f47df1bb9d032900f3b3e7b1c 4e8a3aacdc5777bcf&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1070782085549265066/1204147233688260700/FB_IMG_1707161425642.jpg?ex=65d3ac80&is=65c13780&hm=8c0839ed2db1fc53ddcf54c302f648632f4f97b23ac340e 0fe09434ecb85e393&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/478626607544926217/1204150545724743760/20240205_201358.png?ex=65d3af96&is=65c13a96&hm=867a0961f3e6341e4842bc8453e30c71c528d736ef66d2e 3c4bb781471ae9068&

[Rare White Ape]

And…

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/803923294843043840/1204147068503851058/20240205_203028.jpg?ex=65d3ac59&is=65c13759&hm=222e3887ca7397201dc9d81eb988d25547e84828219ce52 e8b71bd7519148e98&

[Blerpa]

As with Andretti, yeah, he and F-1 was never really a good fit anyways... oh well. Or perhaps it's just poor timing?

Teammate with Senna while McLaren was way past it's prime? JV was way luckier as a driver.

Mclaren ended 2nd in the manufacturers' standings that year, Senna ended 2nd in the drivers' championship.
Reality is Micheal Andretti was a mid pilot at best (in F1 level), nothing to compare with his father.
I love how year after year, decade after decade, people try to find excuses to his lack of professionalism and him simply being out of his level.
He was just not good enough - and looking at his career in motorsport is not like he was a stellar endurance driver or anything else.

Also... mute post.

https://i.imgur.com/k3eskYU.jpg

[Rare White Ape]

Andretti was above average in IndyCar. He won the title in 1991 and got a few runner-up spots, but that’s about it. I think a major part of his move to F1 was the hype around Nigel Mansell abandoning F1 to go Stateside. He could have been a two-time world champ if he stayed in Europe another year.

The MP4/8 did kinda suck compared to the Williams. McLaren had been on the back foot for a few years, but were still way better than Benetton, Ferrari, Ligier, etc. Andretti should have been fighting for podiums every race but only scored one third place and a total of 7 points for the whole year. He just didn’t have the consistency of Senna. In the second best car he finished 11th in the driver standings.

If you subtract those 7 points from McLaren’s total, it still would have came second in the constructors title! So, as a follower of both F1 and IndyCar in those days, I found him to be very underwhelming.

He has been much more successful as a team owner in IndyCar with a few championships under his belt. He’s got good drivers in the team with some potential… if Colton Herta can learn to keep a lid on it he could be a star. Although I do think if Herta was good enough he would already be making his own way to F1 without relying on Andretti to roll out the red carpet for him.

[FaultyMario]

Dorilton is the fund management company that bought Frank's old shop and intellectual property.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m pretty sure McLaren only finished 2nd because of Senna, not because of the car.

It would’ve been more interesting if Mansell and Andretti could have a direct swap of their respective seats. Then I’m sure Michael Andretti could repeat what JV had done.

I definitely agree Michael Andretti and JV are no way near the level of Senna, but surely they were above average. If driving the Williams, surely they could beat Damon Hill. Maybe not Alain Prost…

I think one thing that’s clear is that Nigel Mansell is definitely better than Michael. He won Indy 500 in his 1st attempt! That was just unbelievable.

[FaultyMario]

Horner has been advised to vacate his post. Jonathan Wheatley is expected to step up in the interim.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow! That’s kinda unexpected.

What’s the story? Maybe I just wasn’t paying attention, but this sure seems to have moved very quickly?

Did some other drummer sued him due to money issues?

Or something sexually inappropriate that’s why he’s canceled?

[FaultyMario]

Rumors say he sent unsolicited sexts to a female staffer.

[JoeW]

“Christian? The girls and I in HR are having a dick sucking contest and we thought you might be a good judge. Mind sending over a photo or two so we know what we’re dealing with?”

Evil snickers in HR…”Phase One…complete”.

[FaultyMario]

"I think [that what is happening with Christian Horner] means that we will have to look each other in the mirror and make sure we are posing the right questions internally and acting in the way that we can be only proud of, not today, but in the next ten years."

James Vowles answering a request for comment on the RBR investigation (https://twitter.com/i/status/1754776980619206776).

[Crazed_Insanity]

But in the next 20 years, maybe people will still be able to find something offensive in what you said or do internally within your team though..., then what? :p

I really hope Horner was booted because of repeated offenses witnessed by many from within the company, not just based on he said she said. However, if they have texts evidences, I suppose that's good enough. Horner gotta be stupid to leave such digital trails of his inappropriate behaviors... it's possible success has gotten to his head?

Otherwise, RB's wokeness implosion should be good for Mercedes and Ferrari.

Makes me wonder if perhaps Ferrari sent in some sexy agent to compromise and bring down RB this way... ;)

[JoeW]

There is a rumour that Mercedes has a driver opening next year as well...can you imagine the satisfaction of beating Lewis with his old car?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Depends on the driver.

If it were Max driving the Mercedes and end up winning the championship still..., then Lewis just might go kill himself? ;)

If it were any other driver, not sure Lewis would care. He might just kick himself for leaving Mercedes?

Lastly, I kinda doubt George's new rookie teammate will be able to beat him... Of course if George were to win the championship, Hamilton will likely still kick himself, but I'm sure Ferrari's money should be enough to compensate for the pain caused by the kick.

[JoeW]

Lewis’ dream of driving a Ferrari F1 will tarnish after a few shitty pit strategy calls…probably middle of the 1st race. If they can turn that around then I think he’ll be happy and have fun. But jeezus some of their strategy flubs have been debilitating.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm thinking Hamilton should be experienced and respected enough to be able to call his own shots. As long as the pit crew won't forget a tire or failed to tighten the bolt properly, maybe he'll be okay?

I think perhaps that's what Ferrari needs. Some strong figure to cohesively pull the team together.

Leclerc is just too young. Maybe Hamilton will be able to exert such influence as Schumacher did? However, Michael had Brawn along with him though... but I think Ferrari's current crop of engineers should know what they're doing. Clearly they are producing beautiful and fast cars. Reliability is not something Lewis could fix, but I'm hoping he'll be able to call his own shots so hopefully that'll fix Ferrari's stupid strategical mistakes?

[FaultyMario]

"RB's wokeness implosion"

Ah, OK.

[JoeW]

Ferrari already does alot of asking the drivers questions instead of telling them what is best. That's the damn problem. The drivers have no idea what other teams are struggling with tires or nursing brakes, lifting/coasting etc. The strategists are generally in charge on most teams. But hey, let Lewis do it...couldn't be much worse.

[Crazed_Insanity]

For sure Hamilton is way more experienced than both Leclerc and Sainz combined!

Whatever Ferrari was doing before, clearly it's not working. Adding more experience shouldn't hurt.

If Ferrari does worse than before, then of course we will likely see Lewis just retire... which should make you happy! ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

"RB's wokeness implosion"

Ah, OK.

To be fair, there's just not enough info for us to tell what really happened, but it sure looks like something that wouldn't happen in the old days, right?

Time moves on and things change. Just as it would've been unthinkable that F1 cars won't have Tobacco sponsors!

Like I said earlier, I'd really hope to hear later on that Horner's problem had been ongoing after repeated warnings... and RB finally has had enough of this asshole, rather than a firing based on just some text messages or a single accusation. That'd be a little too woke for me if RB's 0 tolerance policy is really that severe.

[Rare White Ape]

"RB's wokeness implosion"

Ah, OK.

Debilitating brain worms.

[Rare White Ape]

When there’s a vacuum of information, I do love how people jump to conclusions and begin to spread rumours about dick pics being sent to sexy wimmens in the team, when in reality it’s being reported that Horner has been accused of controlling behaviour and exhibiting an aggressive management style:

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2024/feb/06/christian-horner-in-fight-to-save-his-career-at-red-bull-over-allegations

Just kidding! I actually hate it when people jump to conclusions. It’s part of why my ignore list has one person on it.

[JoeW]

Hey we are here for the fun antics and make-believe. Not actual facts. Sheesh bruh get over yourself :)

[Rare White Ape]

ok

[Crazed_Insanity]

FYI, minus all the facts, we were merely jumping into speculative conspiracy theories. That's what happens when we don't have enough information. It's kinda impossible for shit to go down and then they don't tell us what happened and then expect us the little people to never talk about it... Given current political climate and how things are going down, it's probably not hard to speculate pretty accurately what might have happened.

Anyway, chill Ape. Don't mean to upset you. :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/1012740/f1-christian-horner-red-bull-inappropriate-behaviour-jos-verstappen-relationship-badly-damaged/

More conspiracy theory surfaced... this could be something Jos Verstappen orchestrated to get rid of Horner due to their deteriorating relationship? Is it also a coincident that the allegation was 1st reported by Dutch media? Max is close to his daddy... so perhaps RB is now valuing Max over Horner?

What a mess... what a tough decision for the RB boss, huh? If that's really the case, would you let Horner go to save Max or keep Horner but risk having Max moving to Ferrari too? ;)

I'd keep Horner if this is really the case. RB for sure doesn't need Max. When you end up with a crappy car, Max is going to leave anyways.

Of course if there are seriously sexual improprieties, then of course it'd be time for Horner to go.

[Kchrpm]

*yawn* more speculation and rumor mongering. "Oh man, if this rumor is true, that's so crazy, and it means so much and it means this and this and this, and if THAT'S true".

What a waste of time and effort. It will get investigated, we'll find out some version of the truth, and no matter what it is a small percentage will not believe it and come up with some other rumor/conspiracy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think whether one is a conspiracy theory lover or hater, it’s important to not take those theories so seriously.

I think in our modern world, we have a habit of covering things up, which naturally resulted in bunch of conspiracy theories!

Modern science actually came out of this natural human curiosity, right? Except that good scientific theories need to have a good way to experiment with the idea and thus prove it to be true!

Also if you’re an investigator, naturally you’ll need to come up with all possible theories in order to find the truth…

But of course for us, yeah, these curiosities are giant waste of time. Same as posting on this forum! :p

[Rare White Ape]

*yawn* more speculation and rumor mongering. "Oh man, if this rumor is true, that's so crazy, and it means so much and it means this and this and this, and if THAT'S true".

What a waste of time and effort. It will get investigated, we'll find out some version of the truth, and no matter what it is a small percentage will not believe it and come up with some other rumor/conspiracy.

A poorly written article (incorrectly referring to a website publication as 'they' rather than 'it') underneath a headline with specific words written in all-caps tells me right away that the post is a waste of my time and should not have any attention paid to it, and that whoever shared it here suffers from a severe lack of critical thinking skills.

[Crazed_Insanity]

But I made ya look anyways! :p

[Rare White Ape]

“It’s better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool, than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oh Ape, you can't even address me directly and need to resort to 3rd person quotes?!?!?! :p

Anyway, I don't like conspiracies too. So my way of doing thing is to remove all doubts!

Billi is a damn crazy fool! :assclown:

F-1 is probably the only form of racing I sort of follow regularly nowadays... I really hope it won't be bogged down by stupid politics. Anyway, this distraction might be good for the sport? Hopefully other teams can play catch up during this 'opportunity'...

[JoeW]

Back to our regularly scheduled programming...

Methinks no matter how the investigation plays out Mr. Horner will be forced to leave...guilty or innocent. That's how it plays out in pretty much all corporate environments. My question is how much of a role has Horner played in RBR's recent rise to prominence? Or in any team. Does the team principal make all the calls or are they just managers of all the real talent in F1? If he leaves does RBR instantly crumble or do they continue along? Same with Wolff etc... I'm honestly curious.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, I tend to think Adrian Newey is the critical piece that’d cause the team to crumble once removed.

Williams crumbled and so did McLaren; however, I’m sure team bosses can still count for something.

Ross Brawn helped Ferrari and Mercedes won numerous championships by assembling together the right team.

Quite honestly, I’m not really sure how much credit should be given to Horner or to Newey. Based on past performances, I’d tend the give Newey more credit. But the master stroke may just be how they end up getting Newey to join their team in the 1st place?

[Rare White Ape]

I’d say the team principal plays a significant role. They’re the one who assembles the team around them and turns it into a cohesive unit. That includes drivers, chassis designers, strategists, etc.

I can name plenty of examples of recent teams that faded within a few years of the brains trust departing: Williams (Frank Williams and Patrick Head) Ferrari (Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne and Jean Todt) McLaren (Ron Dennis and Adrian Newey) Benetton (Flavio Briatore - for better or worse and Ross Brawn). There are undoubtedly others.

Sponsorship drying up definitely has a part to play but that is not likely to be an issue with RBR as much as it is with independent teams. The worst I’d expect is Red Bull having a few lean years before bouncing back, and that would be at the forefront of the decisions made by upper management. If it got really bad the team could decline to a back of the grid outfit but it would be a huge embarrassment for the drinks company and would HAVE to be sold to protect the brand, but that’s something I don’t think would ever happen.

[FaultyMario]

Clearing rumors:

Yes, the accusations have come from a female colleague.
No, no dickpicks, but rather he's been accused of "controlling and coercive behavior".

It won't be solved soon, people are not expecting it to be cleared by Red Bull new car launch.

Upon learning of the results of the investigation from the barrister hired by Red Bull GmbH, Horner has been promised by Red Bull a thorough investigation that is fair to both parties, so he did the only reasonable thing, He lawyer'd up.

[Tom Servo]

Clearing rumors:

Yes, the accusations have come from a female colleague.
No, no dickpicks, but rather he's been accused of "controlling and coercive behavior".

Might not be dickpics, but that could definitely still describe sexual harassment. Like "sleep with me or you're getting demoted."

I'm sure the truth is somewhere between what tabloids are saying and the official line. The official line describes the management style of basically every team boss in history, so it's hard to imagine that'd be enough to get RBR to conduct an investigation and possibly fire him.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Man, I have to say things are not looking good for RB.

Their new car now looks like Visa Toro Rosso! :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oops! Sorry, I got confused... RB(Racing Bull) is different from RB(Red Bull)! :p

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG6vBplXoAAV2GO.jpg

Final results of the first day of F1 testing in Bahrain. It's time to start waiting for the next season #F1 (https://twitter.com/RSF_Motorsport/status/1760536955463291330)

[Fiat500]

So - all the cars are launched*, and testing is underway.

Mercedes has moved away from its zero pod concept, and Red Bull has moved closer to it, tee hee.

Red Bull fastest on first day of testing, by some margin. Ferrari fastest on second day. Third day today, I haven't had time to update myself.

What do we think?


*And the sky is gray
I went for a walk
On a winters day

[Crazed_Insanity]

I thought it looks like everyone has converged on a similar sidepod design?

Anyway, I’m hoping Red Bull will experience more troubles this year now that their boss is distracted… wonder what’s taking them so long to make the decision on whether Horner is guilty or not guilty.

[FaultyMario]

Red Bull are going to walk away with both titles.

[Crazed_Insanity]

With Max and Newey, it is highly likely they could clinch the titles again without Horner. However, who knows whether their internal mess might cause them to trip over themselves like Ferrari or not…

[FaultyMario]

Red Bull are going to dominate both championships.

[G'day Mate]

Fantasy F1?

[Kchrpm]

#soon

[JoeW]

Really enjoying Netflix Drive to Survive. I just love the access and the banter that we never get to see on race day footage. This season seems even more well done than previous seasons.

Glad to have Claire Williams on the show but Danica is useless as usual.

[dodint]

They have Danica doing commentary about a series she's never even come close to being a part of? Glad I stopped watching it. :lol:

[JoeW]

TBF she is better during these interviews than on race day commentary. But still…

[FaultyMario]

If red bull are thought to have engineered horner's exit, shit gun get ugly.

Zak will not stop until he is eating ice cream off Team Faenza's empty skull.

Renault, who have been denied the chance to level up their engines, are also hungry for some red bull blood.

[JoeW]

Honestly this is the perfect year for it to happen. Let Max have another WDC then the whole thing will collapse as all the employees bail out.

[JoeW]

Check this shit out. Fastest filming drone in the world.

https://youtu.be/9pEqyr_uT-k?si=YeA3KbypCsoLszwn

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow! The drone sounds like a proper F1 car! :D

[Tom Servo]

They have Danica doing commentary about a series she's never even come close to being a part of? Glad I stopped watching it. :lol:

I mean, Will Buxton's also doing interviews in it?

[dodint]

Will Buxton has been covering F1 in print and on camera since 2010 and before that he covered GP2 since 2005. His presence is based on expertise and an informed perspective. Danica is there because she got almost naked in a magazine 20 years ago.

[JoeW]

Well TBF she has more actual racing experience than anyone here ;) And Will Buxton...

[Kchrpm]

Everyone knows that US racing experience doesn't count when it comes to F1.

[dodint]

See, Keith gets it.

That's the whole premise of Drive to Survive, right? Inside access and perspectives of those close to the series?
Danica makes as much sense as Dale Jr or any other overexposed racer-turned-media personality that nobody in F1 pays any mind to.

I can't remember what season I stopped watching DTS but there was a female F1 journo brought in to make cliched statements about racing that could be spliced into any situation throughout the year. I imagine Danica was more recognizable to US audiences and was brought in for that role.

It's an entertainment show that makes little effort towards telling an accurate story so it doesn't really matter.; they can do what they want.
I'm genuinely surprised that someone here thinks Will Buxton has less relevance to F1 than Danica Patrick and it brought me onto this tangent.

[JoeW]

No one here thinks that. You inferred that on your own. Danica has more on track experience than Will...which is what Tom was alluding to I believe in a chiding manner. Then you basically downgraded any of her racing experience (whatever the series) by saying she is only anywhere on camera due to being naked in a magazine. When I cheekily replied that she has more racing experience than anyone here...including Will.

I think you are doubling down on getting bent out of shape for no reason. I already said I'm no fan of hers...but the fact remains...she has raced professionally at a very high level in a few different series. No one says she has less relevance than Will commenting on F1, she just has infinitely more professional racing experience ;)

As much bravado as some of us may have regarding our driving prowess, we are scrubs compared to her ;)

In addition, they aren't getting her opinion about anything F1 driving related...it's basic comments about racing in general. She's not saying the downforce is this, the g forces that...it's things like how the teams have hope and anticipation before the first race of the season etc.

[Rare White Ape]

Her NASCAR career was a dumpster fire, and has only won a single IndyCar race. But that’s about a trillion times more talent than I’ll ever possess.

She also has decently above average TV personality skills so can comment truthfully from experience. I don’t see what the problem is.

[Tom Servo]

Her NASCAR career was a dumpster fire, and has only won a single IndyCar race. But that’s about a trillion times more talent than I’ll ever possess.

She also has decently above average TV personality skills so can comment truthfully from experience. I don’t see what the problem is.

This. There are plenty of people they interview that haven't raced in F1 but have some level of experience in racing in general. She raced at the top levels in the US, even if she only had the one win in IndyCar. The parts she spoke to she knew about and she does well on TV. Feels like irrational annoyance to me, but whatever.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Problem is JoeW should stop trying to be Frank. Just be yourself Joe!

TBF or not to be Frank? That is the problem. Just let it be… :p

[JoeW]

It's "To be Fair" god dammit!

[JoeW]

Horner cleared by RBR.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Frank or Fair, whatever. Just be Joe dammit!

Regarding the Horny-gate incident, frankly I'm shocked by the lack of transparency even til the end.

So to be fair, I'm only left with bunch of conspiracy theories.

Anyway, at least Max trusts the 'process'.

I am glad Horner didn't get tossed away like Ron Dennis.

However, so did that female employee get screwed?

Kinda wish RB could be more frank about the incident so that we can really know they're being fair about it.

[FaultyMario]

I find Danica boring. And I think Lawrence Barretto asks repetitive questions.

I'd trade them both for the really tall lady.

[Tom Servo]

In the five or so episodes I've watched so far she had a few minutes of interviews and they were all about things like "how it feels to be at the starting grid of a new season." Things she is actually qualified to speak to, even if it's not the exact same series, and it's not like interviewees generally select the questions.

Yeah, she's maybe not the best choice for the interview. Maybe she was easier to get than getting Felipe Massa to talk about how often he'd screw his own chances up. I dunno. To each their own, but I cannot imagine, from what I saw of her so far, that it would in any way change my mind about whether or not to watch. It was about as inoffensive and vaguely informative as Buxton saying like "It's really bad for McLaren that they started off so poorly." How was that more informative?

[JoeW]

Werd!

[FaultyMario]

Ok. You guys are talking about DTS.

[Tom Servo]

Indeed we are.

[G'day Mate]

She’s a well-known American face for the casual target audience.

[FaultyMario]

Has anyone caught a few of the onboards?

Am I crazy or does the Mercedes power unit have a sound that is more distinct than the other PUs?

My memory might be playing tricks on me, but I recall that up until last year the power units sounded like two motorbike engines together with a turbo whirl in between them, and that the Honda was the more compact sounding of them, with the Renault being the more "farty" one.

To me, this year's Merc sounds like the electrical half is doing more work, or better said, that the ICE part is working more for the electrical bits.

They probably just have a new, super-efficient exhaust. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[JoeW]

I do believe it’s all down to how they package everything. And since they are a new car this year it would make sense.

I will say they look ready to win this year. Would be hilarious if Merc delivers on a WDC and then Hamilton has to go to a worse Ferrari car next year.

Looking forward to all the storylines. I expect it to be a lot closer this year.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, I think Ferrari has always had a stronger car that came close to the RBs if it weren't for the team stepping over its own foot at times with race strategies?

Given the performances of AM and McLaren, it's clear Mercedes engines are not the problem. Now that they got rid of their 0 sidepods, maybe they can return to their winning form now that everyone pretty much converged on a similar design?

However, I kinda doubt Mercedes could all of a sudden leap ahead of RB though. Unless the political in-fighting within RB continue to drag things down...

If that was really a political fight, I'm guess Horner will probably eventually start an exodus from RB to start his own team with Newey? Jaguar(Ford) could come around in full circle to come back into F1? :)

[FaultyMario]

I think MB have made a lot of little changes that could help them be more consistently within 0.3 of the leading race pace. As opposed to being all over the place, like last year.

[JoeW]

Ruh Roh Raggy…looks like those meddling kids have uncovered some files on Horner and broadcast them from the mobile Mystery Machine. I smell trouble…

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting orders in free practices... it was Lewis finishing on top in FF2, but now in FF3, it's Lewis's future car on top! :p

Max is not topping the charts for some reason. I wonder if he's sandbagging still?

If this trend continues, maybe we're in for an exciting season? Maybe something does smell rotten within RB?

[FaultyMario]

i saw race pace simulation numbers.

it had Verstappen on top followed by Norris and Perez.

The mercedes are about 0.35 off, which i think it's an improvement on their 2023 form.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Qualifying times looked amazingly tight. Leclerc, in theory, could've beaten Max to the pole this weekend, at least based on Q2 performance...

If racing could be similarly close, that'd be awesome! Do not wish to see Max pull away to the distance race after race... or just start from last and finished 1st like last year... :p

A distracted Horner is probably good for the sport for now. ;)

2 surprises:

1) Nico can really drive that Haas! Or Ferraris are really that good and it's just Kevin who's screwing it up?
2) Renault has officially taken over as the #10 team? How sad.

[JoeW]

Not a good start for Perez again. RBR will be monitoring this situation.

Liam is ready to roll and I imagine he would go straight to RBR because honestly Tsu and Ric aren’t the answer.

[Tom Servo]

Got around to watching qualy and then put on FP1 while Michele slept (the sound of racecars helps her sleep. It's weird, I know). Bragging about 10 million Youtube subscribers. That's the population of LA county. Youtube is worldwide, as is the sport.

I wouldn't get too hyped about that.

[Fiat500]

(the sound of racecars helps her sleep. It's weird, I know)

Heh, I can relate. I keep nodding off during races when nothing exciting is happening. Like in this race, around lap 20-something, I could no longer fool myself into believing this was very interesting, and suddenly it was lap 30-something...
Happens way too often, unfortunately.

Anyways, early days, you can't always tell anything from the first couple of races, and all that. We'll see.

[JoeW]

Crazy…no retirements or red flags all weekend. Cars are so reliable now it’s crazy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

All cars have converged to look the same and it looks like they all have better reliability as well! I wonder if that means Max will finally be challenged or will he prove he’s the best no matter what! :p

[samoht]

Comparing Q3 here with last year, Max has a slightly bigger advantage over P2, but the rest of the top nine are a lot more closely packed on time than 2023.

4248

(P10 omitted because Hulk wasn't pushing either time as no real chance of beating any of the other cars).

I don't think this means there's any chance of anyone other than Max winning the championship, but there could be some interest behind him.


The other obvious change from how we left things last year is that Alpine are now backmarkers, apart from that the competitive order is very similar.

[JoeW]

I’m super curious how that Mercedes seat gets filled.

If TSU keeps acting like an 8yr old then he could find Lawson in his seat pretty quickly.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yuki was definitely immature so maybe his age was showing?

However, was such team order really necessary? On the very 1st race?

Ricciardo was saying he was willing to give the position back when he failed the over take had the team ordered him to…

Just give that 11th position back then! Why steal 11th from an immature kid? He couldn’t over take, you couldn’t over take and you qualified slower… so just give it back so the kid won’t be so upset! :p

IMHO, the team communicated and executed all that very poorly. Yuki’s tantrum also didn’t gain himself any points too of course. He could’ve complete the pass and shut the team up too.

[samoht]

In Merc's dreams, Kimi Antonelli is the new Max Verstappen, he wins F2 this year and then steps straight up into the Merc for '25, as when Hamilton arrived in '07. In this scenario they have a new superstar to replace Lewis, with George to keep things moving forwards if the new kid needs a year to get up to speed.

If this isn't how things pan out then they'll need someone else either as a stopgap or for good. Alonso is the only person as good as Hamilton who is available for '25 AFAIK. Sainz wouldn't be a bad call either tbh, although I don't quite see him as a superstar so it'd need Russell to step up slightly.

[JoeW]

The only mistake RB made was not calling for the swap a bit earlier. RIC was on new soft tires while YUK was on hards. The idea was RIC, with a bit of luck, could have scored a point if he gets past MAG/ZHO (doable) and STR (needed help from the F1 gods). But he used up his tires battling his own teammate for too long…then had nothing left for MAG/ZHO. So the idea was correct, but executed a bit late. And when they did try to execute, TSU ruined any chance of the team getting a point by crying like a child and fighting him off for too long. Then tried to side swipe RIC after the race in a rage. Honestly I see TSU out by mid season if he keeps acting up.

I call for LAW on my fantasy team if TSU gets ousted :)

[Tom Servo]

I really wish that the other RB team wasn't also RB.

[JoeW]

I was much more comfortable with AT. Now I have to type RB or RBR…not happy :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Arby’s should be the title sponsor! Arby’s RB!

Anyway, overall the team is a disappointment. I thought rival teams were initially worried about RB’s car copied too much of last years RBR’s car…, but now it looks like RB isn’t really too fast.

Ricciardo really should be way ahead of Yuki…without team orders. Of course, Yuki needs to grow up.

[Crazed_Insanity]

In Merc's dreams, Kimi Antonelli is the new Max Verstappen, he wins F2 this year and then steps straight up into the Merc for '25, as when Hamilton arrived in '07. In this scenario they have a new superstar to replace Lewis, with George to keep things moving forwards if the new kid needs a year to get up to speed.

If this isn't how things pan out then they'll need someone else either as a stopgap or for good. Alonso is the only person as good as Hamilton who is available for '25 AFAIK. Sainz wouldn't be a bad call either tbh, although I don't quite see him as a superstar so it'd need Russell to step up slightly.

I think Mercedes should use the same playbook… go steal another young driver from McLaren! Either Lando or Piastri have demonstrated much better potential than risk hiring a rookie.

Also, until the next rule change, I think it’s clear RBR still has the advantage. Everyone else simply bunched up closer together, but it still looks like Max’s nearest rival is still his teammate!

[samoht]

I think Mercedes should use the same playbook… go steal another young driver from McLaren! Either Lando or Piastri have demonstrated much better potential than risk hiring a rookie.

Also, until the next rule change, I think it’s clear RBR still has the advantage. Everyone else simply bunched up closer together, but it still looks like Max’s nearest rival is still his teammate!

Piastri is contracted to McLaren through to the end of 2026, Norris to 2026 or '27.

Toto said when Hamilton dropped his bombshell that some interesting drivers had just recently signed contracts elsewhere, likely referring to Norris; so yes Merc would have liked a McLaren driver but they now either need to wait to 2026 or offer McLaren something very valuable to persuade them to give up one of their stars. (Maybe a nitrous button?)

I agree I'd expect Max to win this year and next. After that it depends, there have been rumours they're unhappy about the new rules and/or their in-house/Ford engine project isn't going smoothly. As we've seen before, even Newey can't win without a nearly-competitive engine. If RB drop the engine ball in '26 I'd assume Merc or Ferrari will take over and start winning; I think with Vasseur and Hamilton at Ferrari they've roughly evened their odds up against Merc.

[G'day Mate]

Oh my ... Yuki was not happy post race

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWVn_pSTXFU

[Yobbo NZ]

Oh my ... Yuki was not happy post race

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWVn_pSTXFU

Bring back Hartl...no wait.
GET LIAM IN THERE!

[JoeW]

We’re way ahead of you guys :)

[G'day Mate]

... Then tried to side swipe RIC after the race in a rage ...

Ah I see

[Blerpa]

Tsunoda post race manouver? Idiocy.
Tsunoda rage during the race? TOTALLY JUSTIFIED.

Tsunoda was in DRS range on Magnussen, battling him with hard tyres... princesse Ricciardo was on newer soft tyres and could *BARELY* keep up with Tsunoda.
So what a famously retarded team does? Asks the guy in battle to slow down and let pass Cinderello.
Tsunoda gets pissed.
Eventually lets Australino pass.
Australino comments with "I don't even have to say anything about it" - surely your highness. Next time we will implement red carpet for you.
Danielinho manages to not pass Magnussen and simultaneously enlarge the gap - a stellar showing of his vanished skills while destroying his teammate chance to get a position. Well done, it was an hard feat to accomplish.
Not fussed Kangaroo Grandpa does not give back position and team is fine with it.

Tsunoda now has twice the motivation to bring Ozzy Has-been Diva down to the ground by the end of the season.
Truly unfortunate Lawson has not a seat as you all said, indeed... Ricciardo's seat, that is.

[Tom Servo]

Lol, imagine getting this worked up over non-points paying positions.

[JoeW]

So I guess Blerpa didn't watch the race. It's ok...lots of people comment on stuff based on highlights.

TSU pits on 36 for Hards. Next lap RIC pits for Softs. At that time they are 10 secs apart. By Lap 47 RIC is within 2 secs where his lap times would start being affected by the much slower TSU. Lap 48 RIC is within 1.3.

RIC spends 6 laps behind TSU as his tire advantage literally burns away as TSU refuses to move over.

Had the move been made on time...I believe RIC probably could have made it past ZHO. By the time TSU stopped crying like a bitch and holding his team mate up, RIC's soft tire advantage had wasted away.

So...yeah, RIC was at least a second per lap faster than TSU. AND TSU had DRS on MAG for several laps (while still not being able to pass) while RIC caught up quite easily.

[Crazed_Insanity]

As just a highlight watcher, I had no idea what happened down the order as well, but upon learning after the fact, I think I can understand yuki’s frustration.

Yuki should’ve been more immature by ignoring team orders and complete the pass. That’s how one become future champions. Not by obeying orders and then dive bomb teammate.

Ricciardo also should order himself to retire if he consistently can’t out qualify and out race his teammate.

I was initially rooting for him to get Perez’s seat, but if you can’t even beat Yuki, why bother? Unless Yuki is actually the next Asian Max? Nah, Max would never obey such team order… :p

[Blerpa]

So I guess Blerpa didn't watch the race. It's ok...lots of people comment on stuff based on highlights.

TSU pits on 36 for Hards. Next lap RIC pits for Softs. At that time they are 10 secs apart. By Lap 47 RIC is within 2 secs where his lap times would start being affected by the much slower TSU. Lap 48 RIC is within 1.3.

RIC spends 6 laps behind TSU as his tire advantage literally burns away as TSU refuses to move over.

Had the move been made on time...I believe RIC probably could have made it past ZHO. By the time TSU stopped crying like a bitch and holding his team mate up, RIC's soft tire advantage had wasted away.

So...yeah, RIC was at least a second per lap faster than TSU. AND TSU had DRS on MAG for several laps (while still not being able to pass) while RIC caught up quite easily.

I guess JoeW did talks out of his arse.
It's ok... lots of people comment on stuff based on bullshit.
All I saw was a poor specimen of a driver unable to pass two drivers on worse tyres than him, without help of mommy team.
But keep making excuses for Princessa Australia.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hmm..., I did not watch the whole race, but now I'm all interested in knowing who's arse speak the loudest! :p

Anyone else who actually watched the race can chime in and settle the stinky crap between JoeW and Blerpa? ;)

To be fair or frank or a fuckhead, I think JoeW wasn't really trying to make excuse for Ricciardo, but to justify why the team made that call and the call should've been made sooner.

However, racers on harder compounds have no obligation to move over to racers behind them with softer compounds. If Ricciardo couldn't pass Yuki, there's no guarantee that he'll be able to pass Zhou.

Personally, I think Yuki should decide either to ignore the team order or to accept it gracefully. Team also sucked to make that call late. Ricciardo also sucked that he couldn't beat his teammate fair and square. They were literally team Suck over the weekend. All that drama for 0 points.

[JoeW]

Yeah somebody is grumpy.

[Tom Servo]

Lol, imagine getting this worked up over non-points paying positions.

*taps the sign*

[JoeW]

Lol, imagine getting this worked up over non-points paying positions.

*Taps the sign*

[Rare White Ape]

Trouble at the mill...

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/68465516

[FaultyMario]

Hornygate might have some crazy implications.

Helmut could leave RBR (and F1, as he is not the most popular old geezer in the paddock).
That would trigger a clause in MV's contract and he would be free to walk in to the Mercedes seat.
Adrian Newey, who is too old for this shit, would cash in on the Yen from TGR and design either a Hypercar for WEC or the newest Sauber, if Audi were to not really commit to it and pass on ownership of the Hinwil team to Toyoda.

Speaking of commitment, Ford is rumored to be Shocked! by the scandalous behavior from Christian Horner and how it would tarnish its family-friendly image among its... check notes... Raptor, King Ranch and Bronco Everglades-buying customers. Either that or they suck at building highly efficient hybrid racing powerplants, and, as many are whispering, they are way behind schedule.

Which brings us back to Newey. As demonstrated in the "undriveable" Renault era, Adrian Newey hates not having a competitive engine for his cars. So if He senses that Ford is going to shit the bed, instead of going for the Toyota money, he might be interested in ending his professional career working alongside Hamilton at Ferrari, and who knows, maybe having the chance to design another Valkyrie or maybe he already has a modern take on the breadvan.

And what does Christian Horny have to do with all this? apparently, the RBR staffer he was allegedly harassing was Jos Verstappen's fling.

[FaultyMario]

My take?

Toto wouldn't take a 'foreign' driver to his team. Esteban, Mick and the other Esteban might be shit, but they are all managed by him. As is Kimi. And Wolff would love nothing more than to conquer F1 with his protege. But I don't know what the ownership structure of Mercedes is right now. I think Daimler and Toto's company were evenly split on stocks with a minor share for Lauda. But that all changed when Niki passed and they sold a stake to Ineos Group, and maybe Petronas owns a part of it as well. So maybe he doesn't get to make the final call if Verstappen comes knocking.

RBR is a mess in the wake of Mateschitz's death. The Yoovidhyas are on the side of the British and the Austro-Dutch alliance seem to be a minority voice in current decision-making. Why they chose to go with Ford instead of luring Honda back in is beyond me, and that business partnership seems to be at the core of their problems for the foreseeable future. I wouldn't blame Newey if he is tired of dealing with that kind shit and is instead trying to further cement his legacy as a car-making genius.

[Rare White Ape]

That's a lot of pictures attached to walls with pins and strings being threaded between them.

The only things we know for sure are:

-Hamilton is signed for Ferrari next year
-Horner is in a very awkward position
-Jos Verstappen is trying to oust Horner

One thing I know for sure is that stability is the preferred state of affairs, and destabilising a successful and good thing benefits nobody. Therefore Jos should fuck off and leave things well alone, as he and his kid will not benefit from a team without a successful principal and no genius chief technical officer.

Wherever Newey goes, the trophies go.

[FaultyMario]

That's a lot of pictures attached to walls with pins and strings being threaded between them.

Yes they are, and they are way more fun than watching the winning driver create a gap to the second place finisher that is larger than what the second place driver has over the tenth place.

¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

[Crazed_Insanity]

So RBR is likely following McLaren’s footsteps? Internal power struggles might oust their super successful team manager… and Newey might get fed up and quit… and its star driver Max might end up lured away by Mercedes?

Conspiracy theories rock! :popcorn:

[Tom Servo]

Yes they are, and they are way more fun than watching the winning driver create a gap to the second place finisher that is larger than what the second place driver has over the tenth place.

¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

Preach!

[JoeW]

Popcorn please :)

[Kchrpm]

I'm just glad someone else will do the research for me and post it all here, so I don't have to keep up or ask an AI to summarize it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I do kinda wish to see Max in Mercedes and Ham in Ferrari fighting it out in their respective new teams.

Then maybe Michael Andretti can buy the imploded RBR team and everyone's happy! :)

[Rare White Ape]

From the Sky Sports F1 broadcast: Christian Horny’s accuser presented to work on Monday at RBR but has been suspended on full pay. No further details.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Lewis Hamilton fired his dad to move forward with his career as his own man!

Doesn't look like Max is willing to be his own man in his F1 career yet. If there's a fallout between RB and Jos, I think it's clear that RB will lose Max, at least according to what Max is saying... ‘I don’t see myself in F1 without my Dad and (manager) Raymond Vermeulen.’

Pretty crazy stuffs going on, but I suppose it's good to separate Max and RB for the good of the sport. :p

[G'day Mate]

AlanP’s favourite piece of F1 trivia has come true again

[G'day Mate]

Hang on, have I got that right? Whose trivia is it that there’s never been an F1 season where every driver has lined up for the same team in every race?

[Crazed_Insanity]

It seems Lewis Hamilton's heart is not in his Mercedes cockpit lately?

Ricciardo is also not looking like a team leader he's supposed to be.

Alonso is like the only old geezer who can still surprise folks.

When will RBR implode? Max is still on top! Com'on Jos, do something, send some more emails to screw that up! :p

[Alan P]

What would that be? I'm genuinely mystified!

[JoeW]

Bearman for President!

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don’t even know if he’s republican or democrat!

The boy is handsome though. His name should be GoodLookinMan.

Actually, to debut in this high speed walled track like that was indeed impressive. Maybe he should be Fearlessman!

Anyway, Bearman is a weird name. His ancestors hunts bears or something?

Quite exciting to continue seeing young talents…

[JoeW]

Looks like Perez has turned it around this year. Glad to see him doing his best Bottas/Barrichello impression.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, I’m still holding my breath… Perez won this race last year!!! Then he began to lose it after Monaco after partying too hard, right? ;)

Hope he’ll keep it together better this year for the entire season.

Anyway, that Bearman rookie actually beat Hamilton using his next year’s ride! Wonder if that made Hamilton smile or cry… ;)

Lastly, RBR is really imploding in a very impressive way. Imagine if the team were working together harmoniously, Max probably would lap the field!

[JoeW]

If things stay on course for several races Max will pass Lewis and Schumacher on career percentage of races won.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, the only thing that could possibly derail Max's momentum is the actual implosion of RBR.

It's so weird that when an organization becomes so successful, something, perhaps egos, always inevitably cause them to fall. Happened to Ferrari, Williams and McLaren... I suppose it has never happened to RBR before, right? Last time they lost their championship streak was mostly thanks to Renault failing to deliver powerful enough engines. I suppose it's probably RBR's turn to fall?

Mercedes also probably has already fallen? Clearly they're still playing catch up this season..., but if after another rule change and they're still behind, then maybe Mercedes will quit and Chevy and Michael Andretti could finally come in by buying the team? ;)

[G'day Mate]

So this time next week I'll be in Melbourne. My friends bought me grand prix tickets on account of all my cancer nonsense last year.

(I'd still rather have my organs back)

[Yobbo NZ]

So this time next week I'll be in Melbourne. My friends bought me grand prix tickets on account of all my cancer nonsense last year.

(I'd still rather have my organs back)

Awesome friends.
Enjoy and hope we can turn on some nice weather.

[G'day Mate]

If not I'll just wait ten minutes, right?

[Yobbo NZ]

Dunno, I thankfully live north of Melbourne where it's usually warmer 🤣

[Rare White Ape]

Depending on which hospital I worked in, I could give you your organs back.

They'd be sectioned and sampled and prepared for histological testing, but you would get them back. And you'd have to fill out the appropriate paperwork.

But you'd get them back.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Awesome friends! You get F1 tickets and get your organs back! :up:

[G'day Mate]

Williams … :smh:

[JoeW]

Yeah that’s fucked.

Your teammate crashes his car like a dumbass in FP1 and they give him yours for the rest of the week. That is next level fucked up.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Do they always have that kinda curbs there? It's probably Albon's own damn fault, but that curb looks dangerous. One wrong entry onto that thing and it'd send you into the wall!

[FaultyMario]

Williams … :smh:

they're still excel-ing their inventories

[samoht]

Yeah that’s fucked.

Your teammate crashes his car like a dumbass in FP1 and they give him yours for the rest of the week. That is next level fucked up.

Is it fair? no Sporting? no

Is it the best thing for the team? odds of 27:1 say yes


It's a F'd up situation, but the ways to avoid it are
1) Get organised and bring a spare chassis to every race (especially street ones)
2) Employ two evenly matched drivers, rather than a bright prospect and a pay driver backmarker.

Ultimately Williams are where they are, and they have to do their best for the team as a whole given the situation they're in. Leadership is about making tough decisions based on the available information.

If they fell back from 7th this year after a Logan no-score at Melbourne, it would be hard to take the setback knowing they hadn't done everything possible to maximise their chances.

[FaultyMario]

1) Get organised and bring a spare chassis to every race (especially street ones)

That was what my quick reaction comment aimed at.

James Vowles recently commented that Williams staffers still use Excel to keep track of inventories. Which might be useful for a family-owned machining shop, but not for a elite-level design and engineering competition, where the hundreds of pieces that make any given component come from dozens of suppliers and have tremendously different lead times, so much so, that bespoke relational databases are a better fit than Excel.

It kinda gives you an idea of why they've fallen behind so much.

[JoeW]

Yeah of course it’s the right call but from Logan’s pov it really blows.

And what kind of terribly run team doesn’t have a fucking backup tub? Williams I suppose…

[FaultyMario]

And what kind of terribly run team doesn’t have a fucking backup tub?

I think Aston Martin had one ready last year after Stroll totaled one. But a couple of years before, and I don't think the same team, under the previous owners, would have. And that wouldn't have happened if Perez hadn't sued Force India when he did.

Perez might be a mediocre qualifier, but I hope he goes to business school after retirement because that dude has every inch of off-track talent that Alonso only dreams of.

[Rare White Ape]

I wouldn't be so hard on a back-of-the-grid team with low funding that clearly only posesses two chassis for it's current car.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, they’re lucky to managed to produce 2 complete chassis in time for the start of the season. Could’ve been worse! MS Excel could’ve crashed and caused further delays!

I’m pretty sure Albon probably is feeling even worse than Sargeant.

[JoeW]

Yeah Perez has been studying under his dad…not a bad business man himself.

I bet HAAS has a backup tub. Sauber etc. It’s fine. They have the money. They just didn’t bring one. I’m sure there is one back at the shop.

[FaultyMario]

Yes, they do have the money!

Williams get paid $10M just for showing up, much like Ferrari, but the Modenese receive upwards of $60M.

[samoht]

Yeah of course it’s the right call but from Logan’s pov it really blows.

And what kind of terribly run team doesn’t have a fucking backup tub? Williams I suppose…

Yes, it sucks for Logan, really unexpected and unfair on him.
It's certainly a failure of Williams not to have another chassis in Melbourne.

My understanding is that Vowles has effectively banned the old Williams processes for designing and building a new car over the winter, replacing the old shortcuts and Excel spreadsheet with a proper process and tools fit for the 21st Century.

This changeover hasn't been easy, and in trying to use the new process for the first time, they narrowly avoided another 2019-style humiliation of failing to even show up for testing. However the plan is that by aggressively shifting over to the new process this year, they might be in position to operate like a professional organisation from this coming winter onwards. Conversely a slower changeover, say shifting only parts of the process to the new system, might have had a lower risk but could have delayed being fully up to speed for three seasons - too late for 2026, and too late for Alex Albon to hang around to see the results.

It's a bit like taking up jogging and ending up with a load of aches and pains, you might feel worse initially but in the medium term you'll be fitter and feel better.

Without an inside view of the organisation it's hard to judge how much this justifies the current failure, but I do feel there's a coherent narrative in there. Given the team's ongoing underachievement and Vowles' track record, I lean towards giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I have no clue what’s going on behind the scene, but I think it’s now clear that Williams is no longer the slowest team on the grid. Hopefully that’s due to them slowly turning the ship around and not because Alpine is just crashing and burning! ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think thanks to Williams, otherwise the spot light would be on Mercedes!

If it weren’t for Bearman, surely HAM could’ve been knocked out of Q3 last race.

Even Toto has admitted defeat that they won’t catch RBR.

They say that their car just has too small of a sweet spot, like it’s on knife edge…

Well, that’s why they paid you the big bucks HAM!

Given that their star driver already had his heart signed to Ferrari, I guess it’s probably game over for Mercedes this season… unless some miracle happens…

Clearly Mercedes engines are not the problem. I think it’s now clear that Toto was just riding in Brawn’s coattail all those years…

[Rare White Ape]

The Red Bull team is now demonstrating how you make an F1 race exciting to watch.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

Team’s in-fighting is finally showing on track!

It’d be funny is Sainz wins the championship and then loses his job! Coming back from a surgery to win is amazing. Maybe he now has an edge over Leclerc because he just a tiny bit lighter now?

[Yobbo NZ]

And I was waiting for George to implode on the last lap.
Maybe Alonso caused it, we'll maybe never know.

[Kchrpm]

The stewards had a thought, it seems. 20 second penalty for potentially dangerous driving, drops Alonso to P8.

[FaultyMario]

i don't think vcarb can justify not having Lawson in one of their cars.

TV production was once again dismal. i did not get to see Verstappen's slide before Sainz passed him, nor the incident previous to Russell's crash.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Finally saw a YouTube analysis of Alonso’s penalty…

While I kinda do agree Alonso was being an asshole, but he was just trying to defend his position from a faster car behind him…

I’d really consider that a racing incident, but FIA just have to intervene and make sure racing is just and fair at all times I guess.

If you brake too early or brake too late, FIA can penalize you. I guess in the future AI drivers will do great! Applying just enough gas or brake at every corner and making sure they always stay within bounds!

If I were George and somebody brake test me in away that I can’t avoid, I’d make sure I crash into Alonso and take him out with me to teach him a lesson! :p

At least looking at the highlights, George looked like he crashed all by himself…

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJalp2zXEAEQ79R.jpg

[FaultyMario]

The stewards had a thought, it seems. 20 second penalty for potentially dangerous driving, drops Alonso to P8.

I think 2024 Australian GP race steward Johnny Herbert was aware of a similar incident from 20 years earlier.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X8rEOwbWd0

[Tom Servo]

Yes, it sucks for Logan, really unexpected and unfair on him.
It's certainly a failure of Williams not to have another chassis in Melbourne.

My understanding is that Vowles has effectively banned the old Williams processes for designing and building a new car over the winter, replacing the old shortcuts and Excel spreadsheet with a proper process and tools fit for the 21st Century.

This changeover hasn't been easy, and in trying to use the new process for the first time, they narrowly avoided another 2019-style humiliation of failing to even show up for testing. However the plan is that by aggressively shifting over to the new process this year, they might be in position to operate like a professional organisation from this coming winter onwards. Conversely a slower changeover, say shifting only parts of the process to the new system, might have had a lower risk but could have delayed being fully up to speed for three seasons - too late for 2026, and too late for Alex Albon to hang around to see the results.

It's a bit like taking up jogging and ending up with a load of aches and pains, you might feel worse initially but in the medium term you'll be fitter and feel better.

Without an inside view of the organisation it's hard to judge how much this justifies the current failure, but I do feel there's a coherent narrative in there. Given the team's ongoing underachievement and Vowles' track record, I lean towards giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Just from my non-racing world, sometimes the rug-pull is the only way to make necessary changes happen. Otherwise it's too easy to keep falling back on bad practices, you just have to put a blanket ban on it and force everyone to move on.

Clearly the old way has not been working for Williams, this is the first thing I'm hearing that may actually lead to meaningful change.

[Alan P]

Ferrari are getting rid of the wrong driver.

[JoeW]

Overall a pretty boring race. Not much action on track.

But seriously how can you not love Sainz? Just a good dude who’s having fun…and clearly faster than his teammate.

Perez obviously just a mediocre driver. Karun said it during the race about how much difference Max actually makes to RBR.

Everyone had been so reliable for so long…two mechanicals in one day from top teams.

This was likely another Max win without the rear brake being stuck from the start. But I would have liked to see a battle unfold naturally because Sainz was definitely the closest competitor. It was funny because up until the drivers room Sainz thought Max made a mistake but realized that wasn’t the case as they watched it on the screen :)

I think Lando may have had a chance at Leclerc without being behind his teammate for too long.

[Kchrpm]

Sainz being Max's best competition this season, followed by becoming his teammate next year while Lewis goes to a regretful Ferrari as Mercedes continues it's decline, would be quite the dramatic turn of events.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I still think Leclerc is the better driver. Sainz has definitely proven himself in various teams and capable of running very close to each teams lead drivers. He may very well be the GOAT of #2 drivers; however, I’m not quite sure that he’s #1 driver material at a top team that is.

I dunno, maybe I’ll have to eat my words later, but just based on his career so far, he really has been super fast, but if a team has to chose to let go a #2, it has always been him, right?

I am super glad that he won this race and I definitely like Sainz a lot, but that’s just how I feel about him. He can certainly prove me wrong by winning a championship this year! :)

[FaultyMario]

Random Yuki appreciation stat:


Tsunoda 0.721s faster than de Vries in Bahrain
Tsunoda 0.305s faster than de Vries in Jeddah
Tsunoda 0.236s faster than de Vries in Australia
��Average: Tsunoda 0.421s faster

Tsunoda 0.149s faster than Ricciardo in Bahrain
Tsunoda 0.461s faster than Ricciardo in Jeddah
Tsunoda 0.729s faster than Ricciardo in Australia
��Average: Tsunoda 0.446s faster

[Yobbo NZ]

So de Vries was getting a handle on it and Dan is losing it.

[JoeW]

I read something about Ric having two races to get his shit moving or Lawson gets the seat.

[JoeW]

Anyone see the video clip where Lando is giving a post race interview and George comes walking up and gives Lando a handshake…

George says “Sweaty”

Lando replies “Champagne”


Savage burn right there :)

[FaultyMario]

I read something about Ric having two races to get his shit moving or Lawson gets the seat.

the rumor yesterday was that Horny had re-signed Perez for 2025.

And i put it down to Christian bc it seems that they're still going at it in red bull racing.

Rumor also hinted at the Mateschitz camp being somewhat comfortable with the state of things and not really wanting to back a Helmut offensive at the moment.

I would mark Verstappen as "leaning out" until new developments.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, makes sense to keep Perez for stability's sake if Max is leaning to leave.

Lando and Sainz are probably good candidates, but if I were a driver, I'm not sure if I want to drive for RB anymore given their political mess. Max leaving isn't a big deal, but if Adrian Newey leaves, RBR will just become like McLaren and Williams... Thanks goodness McLaren has finally turned their ship around?

Anyway, I'm still secretly hoping Ricciardo can soon show Yuki how to win races... If Ricciardo could get back up to speed, he'll be the natural replacement if Max leaves. However, as it is, probably not! :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm beginning to think that F1 is really more suited for younger drivers(minds) because they're just more adaptable.

With significant regulation changes along with limited preseason testing, old timers like Ricciardo just doesn't have a chance. Even Hamilton often times end up seemingly slower than George during beginning of the season. I think older drivers with limited seat times just needs more time to adapt? Vettel also didn't look particularly fast compared to Stroll. Alonso is better, but Stroll is still just a talented paid driver... When Alonso was paired with Ocon, he didn't look super fast either.

Sainz is just a super adaptable driver I think. No matter what regulation or which team, he can always managed to get close to the teams lead driver. He has managed to win races in decent cars now, but I think without winning the championship, it'll be hard for him to shake that #2 status.

Anyway, I just think Ricciardo is too slow to adapt and over the years, his confidence is probably shattered which made things worse? Plus, old age is a bitch. I know he's not the oldest driver, but for sure that's a factor even Michael Schumacher couldn't overcome. I think maybe old age caught up with Senna too? The problem with Senna is that he's not likely to fade away like Ricciardo, but he'd rather die trying to get back on top!

If my 'theory' is right, it's likely reason why it's game over for such a proven winner like Ricciardo and I also don't think Hamilton will do well in Ferrari against Leclerc. I still hope I'm wrong though.

[samoht]

I'm beginning to think that F1 is really more suited for younger drivers(minds) because they're just more adaptable.

Ricciardo has a specific problem IMO.

Firstly, the cars seem to have gone away from him, the way they need to be driven has changed as the tyres and aero regs have changed. Secondly, he's more on the 'instinctive' side of the instinctive-analytical spectrum, which makes it tougher for him to adapt as the cars change. I don't think it's an age thing for him, he's not that old at 34, but the cars have changed since he was quick and he's not been able to adapt.

There's a separate issue which is that as they age, at some point time catches up with drivers. I think Alonso and Hamilton are still close to their best, at some point their powers will fade but I don't think we can point that out yet. If anything I'd say they are very adaptable using their experience.

[Rare White Ape]

One of the most adaptable racers of all time is Valentino Rossi. He retired cloer to his 40s, and the last half-dozen years of his career were mediocre compared to his rivals. During the tail end of his peak, he was noted for being able to keep up with the young influx of new riders who learned their craft in Moto2 and Moto3, much more modern bikes that are vastly different to the 125 and 250cc two-strokes that Rossi grew up with.

Tyre technology changed, engine technology changed, and electronic technology changed, all largely in favour of the riders half his age. But he hung on for many years past his prime. I know I might bring Rossi up in various racing threads from time to time, but the comparisons between him and Ricciardo are valid. It's odd to see Ric being considered an elder statesman of F1 alongside drivers like Alsono and Hamilton, but it's true: he has been very adaptable and experienced a lot of different eras of F1. The current generation of cars with the new rule package is quite a big leap compared to what he's driven before, and younger drivers will be able to make the most of them better than he can.

Despite sharing a country of origin with him, I never thought Ric was the best driver (I think Piastri might have him covered there) so was amazed he could have such success as winning the Monaco GP for RB, and the Italian GP for McLaren, so him falling behind Alonso and Hamilton is not a huge problem for me.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not really sure whether instinctive or analytical types would adapt better... surely Michael Schumacher would be the super analytical type, right? I'd have to conclude that his lack of success when he came out of retirement was most likely age related rather than the loss of his analytical skills?

Anyway, for sure Ricciardo's problem was much bigger than anyone could've anticipated. Most likely there are more issues besides age!

I think the main reason why I thought age might be a thing was due to Bearman's amazing performance. How can a guy just hop into a F1 car in such a high speed street circuit and do so well?!?!? Maybe he's just super talented...

I'm really looking forward to the match up between HAM and LEC. I think Russell has been HAM's only younger teammate, right? George often does seem to have an advantage during the beginning of the season. However, I do believe George still lacks a bit of experience or perhaps judgment? I really don't think he could completely blame his crash on Alonso. The craziest thing I remembered he had done was trying to overtake Bottas in his Williams... As George gains more experiences and better judgments, I'm sure he'll be able to beat the old HAM easily. However, we won't have anymore time to find that out. However, it's good we now have a chance to compare him to Leclerc. :) Will HAM really be able to adapt quickly to move himself up as the obvious #1 driver in the team? My gut says 50/50! :p

I really think the only advantage Hamilton and Alonso have are their experiences. If Max were their teammates in the same car, I think there's >50% chance that Max will be able to kick their asses.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think Ricciardo is getting a brand new chassis for Japan. He's running out of excuses... really hope he'll do well and show Yuki who's the boss in Japan! ;)

Hopefully rain will make the race more interesting this weekend? But then again, Max is also the rain master so maybe it won't make much of a difference. Hope his car will choke again. That's our only hope. :D

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKd3wBHXAAAEP9N.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, maybe Yuki had a home track advantage because of all the positive energies from Japanese fans and that helped edge Danny out of Q3.

Ricciardo will beat him during the race without spinning out?

[FaultyMario]

Isn't Yuki better as a racer than a hotlapper?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ricciardo will be driving to survive!

Running out of excuses!

Anyway, I used to think Sato is the best Japanese GP racer, but Yuki is beginning to change my mind. I like to see them both do well.

[FaultyMario]

Kamui is the best open-wheel driver from Japan. But he was a little "cold chested", as we latinoamericanos say.

Yuki is still young, so hopefully he hasn't maxed out his stats bars.

[FaultyMario]

"Last of the late brakers" just can't pick his marks anymore, it seems.

[Yobbo NZ]

"Last of the late brakers" just can't pick his marks anymore, it seems.

Someone of his experience can't keep making rookie errors.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think regardless of what’s up with Ricciardo, Yuki has proven himself to be the real deal now.

With none of the cars from the top teams retiring, Yuki still managed to score a point! Of course RB gave him a great pit stop as well! :up:

[JoeW]

Until Liam comes along…very soon.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Rain made sprint qualifying very interesting… if rain is still a good ‘equalizer’, Lando has proven himself to be the best of best?

[Crazed_Insanity]

HAM finishing order in sprint race and finally qualifying position seems to contrast greatly…

Max could still win the short sprint race with such huge margin is scary… maybe that was just HAM holding everyone up?

Anyway, hoping for more rain!

[XHawkeye]

Chinese Grand Prix Qualifying lap comparison between Max Verstappen Sergio Perez (https://twitter.com/Formuladdict/status/1781744573821112516) <--- Open for video

[JoeW]

Rosberg can be such a dick…but I absolutely love it. I can’t explain it but it’s so nice to have that one asshole on the commentary team who just says what he thinks…and his thoughts are rarely complimentary…refreshing :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hopefully someday they can incorporate that into the highlight reels… ;)

[samoht]

Rosberg can be such a dick…but I absolutely love it. I can’t explain it but it’s so nice to have that one asshole on the commentary team who just says what he thinks…and his thoughts are rarely complimentary…refreshing :)

I agree, really liked his commentary. Others have drawn parallels with when James Hunt was in the commentary box.

Nico is a fairly smart guy (he turned down a place at a top uni to be an F1 driver) and I think that also contributes to his insights.

Ironically the one thing F1 today is missing is a Nico - the "number two driver" in the top team who flips the script, refuses to play second fiddle and forces the championship wide open as an intra-team battle instead of a walkover.

[2ndMoparMan]

Man I can't wait for the rules change.

[JoeW]

From what I hear the majority of the officially confirmed rules changes are shit. But what else is new. When is the last time they made any non-safety related rules changes that actually made the sport better.

[G'day Mate]

New points structure to be discussed :up: Basically they’re thinking of taking it down to 12th place by squeezing a 3 and 5 in there. I’ve always thought it was silly that 8th place gets four times as many points as 10th

[CudaMan]

These cars are indeed way too cumbersome at low speed. High speed they're great, but they're just so lazy low and medium speed.* Alonso seems to prefer a very direct, responsive front end and he 'muscles' the steering around a bit more in direction changes. But still has to deal with the chundersteer all too often.

Lewis had a pretty good recovery drive especially given he had visibly the most understeer of them all. I was in pain for him. :lol:

I really enjoyed the spicy driving from both AM drivers - except for Stroll's obvious mistake. Alonso's save - and immediate super-accurate recovery while hardly losing momentum and then getting straight into DRS - was the most amazing piece of driving I've seen in a while.

*My guess is they have to set up the front so stiff for the aero platform, which is highly sensitive to front ride height given how much downforce is produced by the underbody aero, that there's no real way to get the front to bite on purely mechanical grip.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Track in China is actually pretty good for racing, right? Lots of places for overtaking. If Max and RBR don't exist, racing was quite close, right? ;) The rain also made things more interesting, but too bad that didn't last.

At least we've witnessed that old guards like Alonso and Hamilton still do have it together. I didn't think Alonso could really continue much longer at his age, but last weekend he has demonstrated he definitely still has what it takes.

Lastly, I guess Mercedes is just lacking the most during qualifying? If only they could qualify better, they could stay ahead pretty good, right? HAM qualified 2nd and stayed 2nd in the spring race. I thought that was pretty impressive. He also was able to claw his way back to top 10 starting so far behind... Anyway, before China, I thought HAM is also trending downward in his career too... similar to Vettel..., but I think he should still be pretty good if he could get his hands on a decent car.

As for rule change..., I dunno. The cars just need to be smaller. If it can't get any smaller, then cheaper. :p
Also, instead of parallel hybrid, maybe they should have serial hybrid system. Wheels driving by electric motor only and the ICE can perhaps be made smaller and rev higher to act as range extender. This trend may or may not make racing better, but that's probably the future of automotive tech is headed.

[CudaMan]

They are planning to get rid of the MGU-K to simplify the hybrid system, but this will mean a larger battery for the MGU-H so drivetrain weight is expected not to change much. The cars will be slightly narrower, slightly shorter, and have slightly smaller tires, which is a step in the right direction but too small a step fors ure.

[JoeW]

I agree on the Alonso save. Basically went from straight to full 2 hand lock back to straight in a tenth of a second. Fully controlled.

Stroll is a fucking scrub. His first comment being angry that someone in front of him hit the brakes…going into a hairpin corner…behind the safety car lineup. Take responsibility you fucking prick.

I hear the new engine changes are extremely unpopular with everyone except Audi and Honda. Newey was saying the new formula will require the engine to be at near full revs even mid corner which create a bunch of new problems. Most F1 teams support a return to V10 now that they are using synthetic fuel etc.

[Crazed_Insanity]

They are planning to get rid of the MGU-K to simplify the hybrid system, but this will mean a larger battery for the MGU-H so drivetrain weight is expected not to change much. The cars will be slightly narrower, slightly shorter, and have slightly smaller tires, which is a step in the right direction but too small a step fors ure.

MGU-K is the motor that helps drive the rear wheels, right? They want that gone? That's like the total opposite of what I was proposing. I thought it'd make more sense for MGU-K to be bigger and the ICE to be smaller so that we can save the earth more that way?

MGU-H is recovering power from turbo and also helps reducing turbo lag, right? I am not aware of any auto manufacturers actually implementing this tech on their production cars. I'm also not sure how will this make F-1 racing better...

Of course narrower, shorter, lighter are the right directions. However, why would auto manufacturers develop tech in F-1 when its not really applicable in real life is beyond me.

[JoeW]

I heard MGU-H is being eliminated due to cost concerns. MGU-K is at least doubling in output. I also heard they will bring back the Push To Pass button… a la KERS.

They were saying it’s so bad that drivers will be downshifting on the straights to generate more electric power.

Some sort of active aero bits also. Just so much BS.

[CudaMan]

I must be confusing H with K then. They're getting rid of the one that harvests energy from the turbocharger anyway.