Car Market issues - Inflation and the end of super large expensive vehicles?

[MR2 Fan]

Interesting video. I've thought for a while that at least in the North American market that the companies are pushing too many large vehicles that are overpriced...because the margins were too good at the time I think.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM5cDYdQDRs

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think this is just the effects of inflation due to money printing.

It's not just cars, just look at the housing market! It's not really that the house prices are 'rising', it's more like it's because dollars are shrinking. Too bad our wages are not going up as quickly as dollar's shrinking. Manufacturers probably need to spend more dollars to build the same kind of vehicles. Covid also gave dealers the temporary false sense that people are willing to pay big bucks for cars forever...

This is why it's important to own assets like real estate, stocks, gold, bitcoin to help to just 'preserve' your wealth. Granted, there's always a risk that you might lose some money, but if it's really just money sitting in your bank account, chances are, they will be shrinking much faster as the Feds print more and more to cover their expenses...

In the beginning of last century, we had a pandemic, great depression and WW2..., can't help but feeling that we are repeating history again...

[neanderthal]

Interesting video. I've thought for a while that at least in the North American market that the companies are pushing too many large vehicles that are overpriced...because the margins were too good at the time I think.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM5cDYdQDRs

Much easier to make big profits when you're making $30k on each truck vs barely getting even on an economy car. Ford, then GM, then Chrysler got out of the car making business (in NA at least) because they were chasing profits. Not because they couldn't build a good car. They could, but not at the price that Toyota and Honda could, and those two were making them much more reliable as well.

What's happening in the general scheme of things, in my humble opinion, is the culmination of shareholder primacy in every sector of the economy coming to a head vs the real economy; what working people can afford to spend after paying their obligations.

All the companies (speaking very generally here) are paying their exec suite more and more to increase the share price (buybacks etc) and increase sales (which means profit) quarter after quarter. And now we're getting very close to the breaking point where customers, the engine room of the economy, don't have much left to spend.

Houses are more expensive. Financing said houses is more expensive. Cars are more expensive. Financing said cars is more expensive. Food is more expensive. Utilities. Clothes. Travelling. RENT IS MORE EXPENSIVE. EVERYTHING is more expensive, and wages, real wages, have not gone up.

Easy to point the finger at Trumps tax cuts, but the rot started long ago, in the 80s, with Reagan.

[MR2 Fan]

Easy to point the finger at Trumps tax cuts, but the rot started long ago, in the 80s, with Reagan.

yep, 100%

Stock buybacks were apparently illegal before Reagan and that's one issue that's been a problem.

I understand that car companies can make a lot more profit on larger trucks but that's another issue with lack of regulations, and companies using outdated classification so they need different safety and fuel economy regulations.

I don't expect the government to do anything because...nothing really gets passed these days.

[dodint]

I've never owned a new car and probably never will. Luckily cars are becoming more and more reliable so buying a 5+ year old car isn't really that big of a deal. My Volt only cost $12k and still has some warranty left on it, and has been a fantastic ownership experience so far.

[dodint]

That video is well-intentioned but really only has about 45 seconds of content that they repeat about 18 times.

[MR2 Fan]

Don't watch his other videos then, lol which is basically the same idea just with other examples. Some youtubers are like this now. They make a good point but then hammer it every couple of videos.

Still, I thought it was decent enough to share and see what you guys think.

[dodint]

Oh, yeah, for sure sure. It's an interesting discussion. Just thought that particular video was a bit repetitive.

I might try and buy a plane in a few years. People look at me with incredulity like I'm trying to be extravagant or over extend myself. The planes I'm looking at are between $80k to $120k. I tell them, rightfully, that is less than a lot of F150s people are buying. :lol:

[TheBenior]

A lot of this is just inflation and people wanting MOAR from their vehicles.

Looking at the Ford F-150 XLT (the most common trim):

2008 F-150 XLT Supercab inflation adjusted MSRP: $42643
2024 F-150 XLT Supercab MSRP: $47620

The 2024's 2.7 twin turbo V6 has an extra 77 horsepower and 106 lb-ft of torque. It's got an aluminum body. It's rated to tow an extra 3,600 lbs. The transmission has 6 more speeds. I can't be bothered to go through all the standard feature differences, but I'm just going to assume that the 2024 has more things standard.

If you want to be a traditionalist and not jump on the SUV/CUV/pickup bandwagon for people hauling, you can buy a new Honda Accord LX starting at $27,895. 2008 Accord LX inflation adjusted price: $31,720. The Civic LX is also slightly cheaper now when adjusted for inflation. While the stripped out DX trim has disappeared, that's not a new thing; that happened with the debut of the 10th gen in 2015.

The Toyota Highlander Hybrid, OTOH, seems to have benefitted from battery/electronic drive cost reductions/efficiency increases. The 2008 Highlander Hybrid started at $34,200 ($49,775 inflation adjusted!). The 2024 non-turbo Hybrid starts at $40,970 and gets 9 mpg better in spite of being larger and having 34 more horsepower.

[neanderthal]

A lot of this is just inflation and people wanting MOAR from their vehicles.

Looking at the Ford F-150 XLT (the most common trim):

2008 F-150 XLT Supercab inflation adjusted MSRP: $42643
2024 F-150 XLT Supercab MSRP: $47620

The 2024's 2.7 twin turbo V6 has an extra 77 horsepower and 106 lb-ft of torque. It's got an aluminum body. It's rated to tow an extra 3,600 lbs. The transmission has 6 more speeds. I can't be bothered to go through all the standard feature differences, but I'm just going to assume that the 2024 has more things standard.

If you want to be a traditionalist and not jump on the SUV/CUV/pickup bandwagon for people hauling, you can buy a new Honda Accord LX starting at $27,895. 2008 Accord LX inflation adjusted price: $31,720. The Civic LX is also slightly cheaper now when adjusted for inflation. While the stripped out DX trim has disappeared, that's not a new thing; that happened with the debut of the 10th gen in 2015.

The Toyota Highlander Hybrid, OTOH, seems to have benefitted from battery/electronic drive cost reductions/efficiency increases. The 2008 Highlander Hybrid started at $34,200 ($49,775 inflation adjusted!). The 2024 non-turbo Hybrid starts at $40,970 and gets 9 mpg better in spite of being larger and having 34 more horsepower.

New cars are better in every way but simplicity and maintenance. That's a given. And the passage of time and the nature of competition will mean that better and better options will become standard, as everyone tries to differentiate themselves from the herd.

I think the nadir for cars was the 90s. The E39 5 series, W124 Mercedes, W463 Gelandewagen, etc. After that they became way too complicated and difficult to work on yourself

[Tom Servo]

Haven't watched the video so I don't know if it touched on this, but there was a pretty well reported thing during the pandemic where shortages in parts meant that fewer cars were being built, and car makers were focusing on their higher level trims to maximize profits on the few they could make. So while the base model price may not have adjusted all that much especially factoring in inflation, it became really hard to find a base model.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Video was focusing on bigger expensive cars and nobody’s buying them…

Not sure if I believe him that much though… if nobody’s really buying them, prices should go down and/or dealership should go bankrupt soon. We’ll see.

In today’s market, rich getting richer and poor getting poorer, naturally car makers are targeting the rich more. I think it’s true that base trims are few if they even exist. If the poor are poorer, I suppose it also makes sense the lower trim models now sell cheaper than 2008 after adjusting for inflation. If the rich doesn’t want the basic trim and poor couldn’t afford it, naturally dealers will have to lower prices to get rid of them.

Anyway, overall market is really weird. Higher interest rates and higher prices are not really driving the markets down for some reason, whether it’s autos or housing. However, at least it’s kinda getting back to ‘normal’ compared to the pandemic period. Dealer lots used to be empty. Now, at least we have some choices if you’re in the market.

When I was getting my free oil change for my Jeep, I noticed that they’re selling Dodge Challengers for like more than $100k, some models even approaching $200k. SRT Hellcat with V12 and couple thousand HP or something… do people actually buy those things at those prices? Who? Drug dealers? ;)

[MR2 Fan]

Inflation is up, banks/creditors are being less "generous" with loans, etc. and overall economy is going worse even if all factors (employment, etc.) aren't catching up to that reality yet.