Car Audio.

[George]

It's not like the truck came with an 8-track player and you use an 8 track to cassette adapter with a cassette adapter hooked up to your satellite radio.

That's amateur stuff, right there. :)

My final use for that mp3 player I posted above was a makeshift wireless headphone setup for when our kids were very young and I needed to play some loud rock and roll on electric guitar and/or bass in the basement but not shake the whole house while doing so.

1. Guitar plugged into amplifier

2. Amplifier headphone out jack to input jack on side of mp3 player

3. mp3 player plugged into a doodad I picked up somewhere many years ago that lets you plug things designed to plug into car cigarette lighters into it, and then plug that thing into a wall outlet in a house for power. I think it was originally designed to let one use a CB radio indoors. Yeah, it's old, made of metal, and heavy.

4. Sony Walkman radio (not the huge metal AM/FM/Cassette jobs, which I still have one of, but a little plastic AM/FM radio only that takes one AA battery and has a belt clip)

5. Headphone cable run inside the back of my shirt (so as not to interfere with the guitar strap and cable) to let me hear what I was playing via the FM transmitter in the "lowest common denominator".

I occurred to me that I could use a similar method to play electric guitar through a car stereo. Shh! Don't tell Volkswagen.

[thesameguy]

I received my doodad today. I've not yet actually tried it, but one thing I didn't note on the Amazon page which I like is that the little controller disc thingy is magnetically attached to a base, and it's the base that you tape to the car. You can remove the disk to hold in your hand or use in a more convenient location and then store it back on the mount when you're done. I like that. I'll actually try and use the thing this weekend - hopefully it works as good as it looks.

[Yeti]

O hai Mark, this is actually a topic I've been working on lately.

I've been trying to figure out what to do with the Volvo that won't involve hacking up the dash for a new stereo OR even removing the old one. On a 122 the factory radio setup was a single speaker above the parcel shelf. There's the remains of a speaker there on mine. Someone grafted a single speaker to the passenger kick panel to provide sound instead...which looks cool.

I'm planning to replace the kick panels, and put one of these in the stock location: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-DE5NlLwhPgk/learn/blogs/av_tips/archive/2009/08/21/single-dash-speaker-for-vintage-car-owners.aspx They're a dual-coil single speaker. Neat! Probably sound like shit, but neat!

Then I think I'm just going to get one of these cheap T-amps, since they run on 12v DC and are fucking cheap, wire it in with a fuse, and install it somewhere hidden: http://www.amazon.com/Lepai-Lp-a68-Digital-Amplifier-Remote/dp/B008GQ08PM/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1452915669&sr=8-13&keywords=Lepai+amp

And then just use one of my old 30-pin ipods with an RCA cable. Should be cheap, and will still sound better than my 3" speaker and 50 year old radio :lol:

[George]

50 year old radio?!

My hero! :up:

(Seriously!)

The stock AM radio in my '71 VW would pick up east coast radio stations from Canada to Cuba, at night, or course, when I lived in the Carolinas. No car I've owned since even comes close to what I used to be able to hear at night in that VW.

Often I'd have to listen for a while to get station identification, but it was cool to be on the highway between Charlotte and Charleston, or maybe on Route 211 through the Green Swamp in southeastern North Carolina and be listening to a radio station out of Pittsburgh, or Cleveland, or Jacksonville, or wherever.

[thesameguy]

I think the amp + RCA cable is the winning solution KB and I have been talking about for a while. It is probably what I will do on the Falcon - it has a virtually identical setup to the Volvo. Probably typical '60s tech. I think the Fleetwood isn't even that far off. Although, based on initial results I might just use another BT adapter aa it wont hurt sound quality more than a digital amp through one speaker already has and it means no wires hanging out. A switch on the dash to turn the receiver and amp on and off and hide everything else. Seems like a good, discrete solution.

Played the Aukey BT thingy for the last half hour driving downtown. Seems totally solid, and sound quality is totally fine. Not CD good, but not standard FM bad. $16 well spent i think.

[Yeti]

The RCA cable's downside is that it brings the iPod's shitty DAC into play, which won't improve the sound.

The upside is that anything will play through the RCA cable, which is good because almost NONE of my iPods have mp3s on them.

The only problem is I have no idea where to mount the Lepai. The factory glovebox thinger on my car was disposed of 50 years ago when the underdash AC was installed :lol: AC isn't there anymore but I also have no glovebox.

[thesameguy]

How big is the Lepai? I thought just a couple square inches - like stick it to the firewall or the steering column brace, etc.

[Yeti]

Well, I'd like to be able to reach it while driving, if necessary :p Not sure why though. the iPod's volume control would probably be enough.

[thesameguy]

That'd be my approach. Typically when it comes to amps they are most efficient at some (usually maximum) volume. Control the volume at the source and let the amp do its thing... somewhere that you can't see it. :)

If you *really* wanted to use the volume, I'd probably pop the thing open and see if relocating the volume knob isn't a possibility. It probably is!

[thesameguy]

In case anyone cares, here's what a $15 Bluetooth receiver looks like in a $1900 truck.

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/95_f150_aukey.jpg

Not mad at it. Seems to work very well for both streaming music and receiving calls. It's obviously not as elegant a solution as a stereo with BT, as answering a call requires the stereo to be on the aux input. As I generally don't take calls when I'm driving anyway, that's not much of a roadblock for me. The buttons on the disc/controller are illuminated dimly, perfectly... they are not a problem at all at night. :up:

In case you're wondering, I repurposed the existing CB mic holder to hold the controller. Yes, I mutilated the controller in the process. Also, the setup comes with about 200' of wire, which I delicately crammed behind the dashboard.

Edit: And, yes, the floor mats match the mud flaps if you get what I'm saying.

[Yw-slayer]

My Alpine head unit has optical (digital) out that goes to an external amp. The sound quality is good, but the user interface is rubbish, and it only supports FAT32 USB drives.

I would like to upgrade to something which supports Android Auto and/or NTFS drives. However, it looks like nothing has optical out. The higher-end stuff seems to only have preamp outs. Would I be sacrificing any sound qualilty? I appreciate that any sacrifice is unlikely to be easy to hear in a relatively noisy car like the BRZ, but never underestimate the power of the placebo effect (or something).

[Kchrpm]

As long as you're using quality wiring that isn't normally going to be susceptible to interference, I doubt the sound quality would take a hit. It's getting converted to analog at some point anyway, you're just having the head unit do it instead of the amp.

[thesameguy]

Yeah - the chances of being able to detect any difference in a car is... impossible. Unless your car is sitting in your living room, not running. Then maybe.

Be sure the head unit and amp both support high volt preamps, as the higher the line voltage the better the connection is at rejecting noise.

[Yw-slayer]

Ok. Thanks.

[Yw-slayer]

Managed to format my flash drives to 64/128gb FAT32 partitions. Let's see if they work in the cars.

[thesameguy]

So far I haven't had any problems with that except in the c2006 stereo that's in the Hyundai. It balks at anything over 16gb.

[CudaMan]

I want to improve the sound quality of the Z on a budget. It might seem a little pointless because of how loud it is, but it may get a little quieter under cruise before too much longer, and it's all I got, so... :)

Bought the car already with:
Pioneer AVIC-X940BT (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-e9wIFDpctra/p_130AVIC940/Pioneer-AVIC-X940BT.html)
(4 total - one in each door and one behind each seat).

Nothing fancy. Setups similar to that have done fine for me in the past. Had a lot of Pioneers over the years. Seems like their power rating has been gradually and steadily going down, though. Last basic system I put together was a JVC Arsenal HU with Alpine Type S coaxials in Nerves Of Teal. It pretty well rocked for what it was. What's in the Z now is moderately underwhelming. Not sure if it's the latest Pioneer electronics or the Kicker speakers - I wasn't all that impressed by the last Kickers that came in a car I had either. More of a Polk/Alpine/JL Audio fan.

So, experts - do I spend a couple hundred on 4 new speakers, or $150 on one of those micro amps [url=http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500KTP445U/Alpine-KTP-445U-Power-Pack.html]like this one (]Kicker KS65[/url)?

[Yw-slayer]

So far I haven't had any problems with that except in the c2006 stereo that's in the Hyundai. It balks at anything over 16gb.

Forgot to update this with the result. The drive was accessible but it took far too long for the songs to be "banked" into sets of 1000 by the stereo. So screw it. I may change the stereo once Android Auto is more mature, since the smartphone market has pretty much fully matured by now.

[thesameguy]

So, experts - do I spend a couple hundred on 4 new speakers, or $150 on one of those micro amps like this one (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500KTP445U/Alpine-KTP-445U-Power-Pack.html)?

I vote microamp, purely because I want someone to try one out and see what happens! :lol:


Forgot to update this with the result. The drive was accessible but it took far too long for the songs to be "banked" into sets of 1000 by the stereo. So screw it. I may change the stereo once Android Auto is more mature, since the smartphone market has pretty much fully matured by now.

I don't remember what this was about, but reminds me of another weird large capacity problem... The Pioneer in the Suburban will happily read the 128gb flash drive I have in it, but I crossed some magic size or quantity threshold, and now the stereo turns off when you shut the car down, but only if it's playing USB. So weird. You can turn it back on after turning the car back on and everything is fine. No explanation!

[Yw-slayer]

Not only that (micro amp) but if it doesn't improve the sound enough for his liking, then he can still use it with the 4 upgraded speakers!

TSG, that was about putting all my mp3s on a thumb drive for my ancient Alpine HU to read.

[CudaMan]

Yeah doing it in stages is the right way for learnings. My mindset is always in the "do it once, do it right" realm, even if it makes it a bigger project.

Older Polks a little cheaper than I thought at $65/pair. Might have to throw those in with the amp while I'm in a car improvement / spending mood. Where has my willpower gone.

[thesameguy]

I tend to think that way as well, but over the years I've learned a bunch of hard lessons about changing too much at once (both time and money lessons) and I try real hard to put on the brakes. Real hard. :)

[dodint]

When I was a new driver I thought car audio was going to be a huge part of all future ownership experiences. It's part of the reason I never considered leasing because I wanted the ability to customize stuff. Then about 5 years ago I basically stopped listening to music and switched first to audio books and now podcasts. My biggest desire in car audio now is that I can connect via Bluetooth. I think part of this is also the integrated dashes in late model cars that make single and double DIN stuff totally out of place.

Basically what I'm saying is I'm getting old, now get off my lawn. ;)

[thesameguy]

I've only ever once put real money into a car - expensive head unit, equalizer (HA!), amp, speakers, sub - and although I really enjoyed it, when I get into a car I'm going to drive the shit out of it so I never really got real mileage out of the investment. I like music and I couldn't have a car without it, but I don't think I'd ever go for "hi-fi" again. As long as it's clean sound with reasonable range, I'm perfectly happy. Definitely a bang-for-the-buck equation for me.

And that's why I really want Cuda to try one of those micro-amps. I've continued to stay on top of them because I will, someday, put something in the Falcon and SPG (un-amped 4" drivers just suck) but it's going to be a while. I can't fully wrap my head around the Shang Loo brand Class D amps, the Lei Feng (IIRC) "Class T" amps, and the name-brand full range Class D amps. Reviews are all over the map! I just want someone I know and trust to try one out and give me the real scoop! :D

[novicius]

Shang-Loo?! :lol: Are you a closet Oliver Gruner fan?

[thesameguy]

I will mention this here:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E04D206/ref=pe_2608000_203247590_pd_h0_t&smid=

It's a lightning deal, $60.

Wireless backup camera with a 7" TFT and some off-brand nav system.

I am virtually positive it's the same camera that's on the Southwind, and it looks like the newer FM-grade wireless stuff (vs. the fancy 2.4GHz ones I just got). Reviews are mixed, but sheeeeeeeeit - it's a cool package for $60. I'm going to try it out on the Feetwoo.

[thesameguy]

Shang-Loo?! :lol: Are you a closet Oliver Gruner fan?

Alex Rain. Good fake name!

[novicius]

That movie was great as long as you turned it off before the final seven minutes played. :lol:

[21Kid]

Also TSG, most new speakers are decent. Whereas 10+ years ago most were pretty horrible. And a lot of stock head units come Bluetooth, USB, etc...

The 2010 Lexus SC still had a tape deck. :lol:

[thesameguy]

That movie was great as long as you turned it off before the final seven minutes played. :lol:

I think I watched that thing ten times or something. it was excellent for the time. My friend/business partner and I took to calling anything without a brand name Shang Loo brand after that. It really stuck! I'm not aware of anyone else ever catching the reference though. Most people just assumed that was the actual brand. Sounds plausible. Kudos to you!


Also TSG, most new speakers are decent. Whereas 10+ years ago most were pretty horrible. And a lot of stock head units come Bluetooth, USB, etc...

The 2010 Lexus SC still had a tape deck. :lol:

Very true - even the crappiest of crap isn't that crappy. The design has been done, the manufacturing perfected. Those huge design/manufacturing challenges of 20 years ago aren't challenges anymore.

[novicius]

I'm not aware of anyone else ever catching the reference though. Most people just assumed that was the actual brand. Sounds plausible. Kudos to you!
I am just your plump brother from a Latin mother. :hard:

[Mr Wonder]

I installed one of those diddy little alpine amps in the missus' SLK. It's no substitute for a proper amp but is a really good compromise if space/weight are your main concerns. For my next project I've bought a couple of Pioneer PRS-D800 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Amplifiers/PRS+Series/PRS-D800) amps, one for the fronts and one for whatever low profile sub setup I end up running. Small and powerful is the order of the day!

If you don't like the sound of the system then ditch the Kickers and get something decent - speakers (and in a car, installation) have a much more pronounced effect on the final sound than any other component.

[21Kid]

True. I picked up some replacement 5 1/4 RFs for the Saabaru and hastily put them in, since we were going on a road trip. They don't sound any better than the stock ones. :( I rarely drive the car, so I keep forgetting to fix them.

[thesameguy]

I recall driving to SJ once with my roommate at the time and before we even made it out of town I got irked at the shitty stock stereo and bought a replacement at Best Buy. Started installing it in a Carls Jr drivethough and had it done by the time we got our order. Drivethrough window person was like dafuq at my torn up dashboard and my roommate was dying of laughter in the passenger seat. It was a real problem, and I had a real solution.

[CudaMan]

That's a great story. :lol:

I'm about ready to order shtuff. Meanwhile I experimented more to see if I could get my iPod Touch 4 to play thru the Pioneer. What I want is what I consider "normal" USB/iPod integration. Plug any USB device in to charge and play files on it. Thumb drive, iPod, whatever. Pioneer doesn't (or didn't at the time) seem to provide this solution.

- Plugging my iPod into the USB cable end that comes from the Pioneer, I get charging and the iPod is recognized as a source. I get album art, artist/track info, and it acts like it's playing (progress bar moves and time remaining updates as the song plays). The only thing is I get NO audio.

- Pioneer's optional extra iPod cable (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130IU51V/Pioneer-CD-IU51V.html) includes a 3.5mm jack. I bet this is how the stereo wants to receive audio signal (there is also a female 3.5mm jack alongside the USB plug on the standard connector). My understanding is sound quality from the iPod's aux out jack is not as good as straight USB. And I don't want to plug in two things every time I want to use my iPod. One is enough.

- So I tried Bluetooth. It took some effort to get the connection. Didn't want to work at first. Eventually it did and played audio. :up: But I lost album art and track progress. Still have artist/album/song info.

Might have to live with Bluetooth.

[thesameguy]

I have had piss poor luck with "ipod integration" over time. Between Apple perpetually, pointlessly changing things and consumer electronics manufacturers not keeping up with "computer stuff' it's a total shitshow. For a brief moment I had a Kenwood stereo in the XR that would talk to my Nano and an adapter doodad in the CTS-V that would talk to a iPhone 3GS, but that didn't lost long. A buddy of mine spent big bucks on one of those App Radios for his iPhone 4S, and that entire thing fell apart with the iPhone 5 and its lightning connector, which was totallty unsupported. I'm done with that. Not even trying iDevice integration ever again. Bluetooth is pretty reliable and hasn't changed much. Score one for universal protocols and a big fuck you to proprietary ones.

[Yw-slayer]

I would choose 3.5mm over Bluetooth. Sound quality is better.

[thesameguy]

True true, but a lot of stereos won't let you use phone functions via 3.5mm. If they aren't connected via BT, they are music only devices. Although, I guess you could pair it AND plug it in... but who has time for that???

[TheBenior]

The add-on Kinivo BTC 450 Bluetooth I use in my Mazdaspeed3 works almost all the time, and when it doesn't, pushing the connect button fixes things.

My 2014 CX-5's infotainment system's Bluetooth is painfully slow to connect, and the track info no longer works reliably since the last major Android update. I hear they made things better for 2016, but IIRC, you can't just swap the units.

[Yw-slayer]

No no no. I mean he should use 30-pin AND 3.5mm. That seems to be the best way.

Anyway...

[thesameguy]

Double up
unh unh

[thesameguy]

Hey, these are neat:

https://www.amazon.com/Yeeco-Waterproof-Converter-Converters-Transformer/dp/B00QTJWRFW/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1470858253&sr=8-11&keywords=12v+to+usb+power

It's a hard-wired 12v to USB power converters, so you can wire it into your car and power something like a GPS or whatever. Man, I already know what to do with this stuff. So neat.

[dodint]

I used something similar on my motorcycle, it was an SAE to USB adapter. It was pretty great as you could unhook it and then use the SAE portion for a trickle charger.

Then I traded the bike on another bike that has a DIN power system so I had to buy new stuff anyway.

[thesameguy]

I used something similar on my motorcycle, it was an SAE to USB adapter. It was pretty great as you could unhook it and then use the SAE portion for a trickle charger.

Ha! That's exactly what I was going to do. :) Throw whatever plug I want on the 12v side, and then I can disconnect and charge through the same wiring. I'm talking about bicycles and not motorcycles, but whatever. :)

[CudaMan]

Dumb question of the week. :) Something I hadn't though of before...

In a car door that has a midrange driver and a tweeter that are separate from the factory, if one puts an aftermarket 2-way speaker in the door and uses the wiring right there, does one get the full range to that new speaker? Or do cars have crossovers somewhere that separates frequencies when it splits the signal?

The easy way is to use the existing wiring and unplug the factory tweeter. I hope the easy way works properly in this case.


-

Pioneer has this cool app where you can find a destination on your phone and Bluetooth it to the Pioneer navigation system. No more draining your phone battery and trying to hear directions over a tiny phone speaker. Oh, but it's only for iPhone. @$%^! Head unit is too old to have Android Auto. :|

[thesameguy]

Totally depends on the car. I have seen everything from discrete crossovers, to specialized head units with more-than-normal speaker outputs with different ranges per output, inline filters to different speakers, and speakers will built-in crossovers that daisy chain. Everything that is possible has been done. Someone on a Z forum will have the answer, or you can probably ask a Cruchfield advisor in chat. ;)

[thesameguy]

Check this thing:

http://www.parts-express.com/wondom-aa-ac11162-2x50w-4-ohm-class-d-audio-amplifier-board-bt40-with-functional-cables--320-3520?utm_source=Retail&utm_medium=Email_Newsletter&utm_content=320-3520&utm_campaign=email082216B

It's a 2x50w Class D amp with both a 3.5mm headphone jack input and Bluetooth 4.0. I think this is the doodad KB and I have been musing over for a long time to put a stereo in a car without a stereo. One board!

It would be perfect if it was 4 channels or had some sort of daisychain ability, but it's as close as we've gotten thus far.

It says 12-24v which should be fine in a car, but I do wonder if it'd benefit from a DC-DC power supply to allow it to survive momentary sags better. I guess it's $40, like, who cares how long it survives? :lol: Okay, well, it's probably closer to $60 once you build it out with a box, volume control, switch, etc. Still, Cheap.

Edit: NM - it looks like it includes everything you need except a box to put it in!

[Mr Wonder]

Dumb question of the week. :) Something I hadn't though of before...

In a car door that has a midrange driver and a tweeter that are separate from the factory, if one puts an aftermarket 2-way speaker in the door and uses the wiring right there, does one get the full range to that new speaker? Or do cars have crossovers somewhere that separates frequencies when it splits the signal?

The easy way is to use the existing wiring and unplug the factory tweeter. I hope the easy way works properly in this case.

It really does depend, however most common on a 'standard' (ie. non externally amped/bose upgraded etc.) system of that age is that the wires are just wires. Easiest way is to look at the speaker when you take them out - there will usually be a small crossover of some description either on the tweeter, or on the mid range driver where the wires go off to the tweeter.

[CudaMan]

Yeah I should have mentioned it's the basic non-Bose stereo, so no pre-amp silliness. IIRC there are wires that go down to the door speaker and wires that go up to the tweeter in the triangle. Crossovers might be hidden behind other things. I'll have a closer look when I get in there, just hoping not to be surprised and have to re-wire that section.

[KillerB]

Check this thing:

http://www.parts-express.com/wondom-aa-ac11162-2x50w-4-ohm-class-d-audio-amplifier-board-bt40-with-functional-cables--320-3520?utm_source=Retail&utm_medium=Email_Newsletter&utm_content=320-3520&utm_campaign=email082216B

It's a 2x50w Class D amp with both a 3.5mm headphone jack input and Bluetooth 4.0. I think this is the doodad KB and I have been musing over for a long time to put a stereo in a car without a stereo. One board!

It would be perfect if it was 4 channels or had some sort of daisychain ability, but it's as close as we've gotten thus far.

It says 12-24v which should be fine in a car, but I do wonder if it'd benefit from a DC-DC power supply to allow it to survive momentary sags better. I guess it's $40, like, who cares how long it survives? :lol: Okay, well, it's probably closer to $60 once you build it out with a box, volume control, switch, etc. Still, Cheap.

Edit: NM - it looks like it includes everything you need except a box to put it in!

Yep, that's exactly what I need, except that it isn't 4 channel.

[21Kid]

Yeah I should have mentioned it's the basic non-Bose stereo, so no pre-amp silliness. IIRC there are wires that go down to the door speaker and wires that go up to the tweeter in the triangle. Crossovers might be hidden behind other things. I'll have a closer look when I get in there, just hoping not to be surprised and have to re-wire that section.
Typically, any crossover would be right by the speaker. They could be behind the head-unit, but it's not very common. And I don't think I've ever seen one anywhere in between.

Most likely scenario is that there would be an in-line crossover connected to the tweeter, to keep the low range out. The door speaker is probably full range.

like this:
http://audi.ebalot.com/img/1989%20nissan%20240sx%20stereo%20wiring%20diagram_ 5.jpg

[Yw-slayer]

I now have a 256GB SD-equipped ipod classic which is ready for use in my BRZ1!! :hard: :shocker:

[Tom Servo]

Hopefully I'm not going over things that have been discussed to death, but I went back about 2 years in the thread and couldn't find much, so here goes.

My wife has repeatedly expressed how much she'd like Bluetooth for her car stereo. She normally plugs her phone in via a male/male headphone cable into an aux jack, which works, but a) she's not into wires and b) we recently had one part of the jack break off in the socket and it cost a fair bit to have it removed.

The car is a 2011 RAV4, so a double-din head unit will work fine. She has no complaints about the speakers - neither of us are audiophiles, most of this is about ease of use + convenience. Most of the sites I can find online are way more concerned about audio quality which is not our primary concern.

So, the requirements are:

Bluetooth that handles phone calls and music streaming
Streamable music must include Spotify (I mostly see Pandora advertised, and have seen reviews complaining that Spotify won't stream)
Ideally a touchscreen, potentially playing nice with a rear view camera (that'd have to be a later addition)
Not slow as fuck (I see a lot of off-brand Android head units that I assume/are reviewed as laggy as fuck, or take minutes to boot upon starting the car).

Nice to haves are:
Screen visible in all normal light levels (bright sunlight and at night)
Navigation (definitely not required, especially if it isn't as good as Android's navigation)
Work with steering wheel controls (I don't think my wife regularly uses them, but it'd still be nice to have the option)

Any recommendations? I found a few things on google with reviews, but the majority of them are old enough that the units listed aren't even available anymore. Also, it's been about 15 years since I last bought a car stereo, so brands I used to think were good are now shit (Blaupunkt seems poorly reviewed), and brands that used to be shit might now be good (Kenwood seems to review quite well).

[Yw-slayer]

One of the simpler and cheaper things to do would be to buy a Bluetooth dongle with AUX-IN that you can plug into your AUX-IN. If it breaks, buy another one.

I have one or two from Avantree - the only problem is that the Micro-USB in that my shop rigged to charge it (because I couldn't be bothered to remove it from the car and charge it every time) doesn't fully charge it and it would usually turn off after 5 minutes, although it would work again afterward. So I ended up not using it but rather just using a long AUX-IN cable, which gives me better audio quality anyway. So YMMV.

Or just buy a new, cheap, HU with Bluetooth? The BRZ is now 4 years old and I will probably get one of this generation of Android Auto-compatible HUs even though they don't have optical out. It'll also be nice to move from the c.2007 era badly designed touchscreen interface (based on WinCE) in my Alpine.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, those plug-in Bluetooth doodads are the cost effective approach here. No complaints about the one in the Ford. The gotcha - which is worth bearing in mind - is how they handle calls. Because they aren't integrated, and can't override what you're doing, if you're listening to the radio, the doodad is connected to your aux port, and the phone rings - you won't hear it. I missed a few calls in the Ford in this way... but tbh when I'm driving I'm driving so I likely would not have answered them anyway.

Double DIN units tends to be pricey for no good reason. The cheaper ones ($200 and under) won't have touchscreens, won't support video, etc. Let me rephrase - the less expensive good ones. You can buy very inexpensive models from the likes of Boss or Pyle, but eeeesh.

So, uh, what's the rough budget here?

[TheBenior]

I've been pretty happy with my Kinivo BTC450 bluetooth (https://www.amazon.com/Kinivo-BTC450-Bluetooth-Hands-Free-Input/dp/B009NLTW60) kit in my Mazdaspeed3, but it seems to be currently unavailable on Amazon. My MS3 has the Bose stereo, which isn't perfect, but it's good enough for me not to want to spend money replacing everything. I did have to add a ground loop noise isolator, however.

If you've got an AUX jack input near a 12v source (my MS3 does in the center console), I'd go that route.

[Random]

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130X380BHS/Pioneer-AVH-X3800BHS.html?avf=Y&nvpair=AG_Android_Control%7cFFSpotify_Control&nvpair=AG_Bluetooth_Features%7cFFHands_Free_Callin g&nvpair=AG_Inputs%7cFFCamera_(Backup)

Midrange option at Crutchfield.

[21Kid]

We have this one... But I haven't tried Spotify... It plays my podcasts and Amazon music, besides the normal stuff, so I think it'd work. I can test Spotify out later when I get home

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PVBZ8A0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Tom Servo]

Budget tops out at around $600, though there's wiggle room if something is truly awesome. Of course, I'd love to spend less, but I figure that we'll have this car for at least another 5 years, and $120 a year for a good stereo experience ain't all that bad.

[Tom Servo]

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130X380BHS/Pioneer-AVH-X3800BHS.html?avf=Y&nvpair=AG_Android_Control%7cFFSpotify_Control&nvpair=AG_Bluetooth_Features%7cFFHands_Free_Callin g&nvpair=AG_Inputs%7cFFCamera_(Backup)

Midrange option at Crutchfield.

That was one I was eyeing. I need to read over the reviews again, for some reason I seem to remember something I saw in the reviews that seemed like a showstopper for it, but of course now I can't remember what that was.

[Tom Servo]

We have this one... But I haven't tried Spotify... It plays my podcasts and Amazon music, besides the normal stuff, so I think it'd work. I can test Spotify out later when I get home

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PVBZ8A0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yeah, if you could do that, that'd be great. I wouldn't think it'd be an issue, but at least one review for a HU I looked at specifically said that Spotify would not work over Bluetooth for him, and that'd definitely be a dealbreaker.

[thesameguy]

I really like those App Radios but I'd (re)issue the caution about long-term compatibility: There isn't any. :)

Still, what Random posted is what I'd most likely look at first for a double-DIN touchscreen stereo.

[Random]

The Pioneer looks like you need a cable connection for Spotify control, FWIW.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, that's a thing. I think it'd be way better to just make sure that a Spotify playlist can be streamed to the HU vs. having Spotify support in the HU itself. E.g., right now she hooks her phone up over the cable into the aux port, my preference is that she can do that over bluetooth instead. I'd like the screen to display what's playing, but I'm okay with the phone being used to control what's playing, as she rarely actually changes what's going on during her commute.

[Tom Servo]

BTW, this has been excellent advice, and I'm hoping to find a store with that Pioneer as a demo unit so I can try to hook my phone up to it to test it out. It's a lot harder to find car audio shops than it used to be, it seems like the factory stereos have improved enough these days that I rarely see people with aftermarket stuff, and I'm sure that's hurt the industry.

[Random]

The description of the functionality makes me think the Pioneer HU is controlling Spotify running on your phone, but via USB cable rather than BT.

[Yw-slayer]

It's a lot harder to find car audio shops than it used to be, it seems like the factory stereos have improved enough these days that I rarely see people with aftermarket stuff, and I'm sure that's hurt the industry.

It's not just that, but also the mfgs having made it more difficult for people to install non-factory stuff neatly.

[thesameguy]

BTW, this has been excellent advice, and I'm hoping to find a store with that Pioneer as a demo unit so I can try to hook my phone up to it to test it out. It's a lot harder to find car audio shops than it used to be, it seems like the factory stereos have improved enough these days that I rarely see people with aftermarket stuff, and I'm sure that's hurt the industry.

Best Buy and Fry's both do installs, you might check them out just to get a hands on.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, I went to Best Buy last weekend. The last time I shopped for a car stereo at that same Best Buy, it was like you couldn't fight off the salesmen, and they had multiple aisles of stuff. Now, they had maybe a 10 foot section of the wall, a number of units just weren't actually there, many others were there but had no card with info/model/price, and I couldn't get anyone to come over and help me.

I'll check on Fry's, and we have a car audio chain out here (I have no idea if they're widespread or just in the LA area), though they appear to be more concerned with how much bass they can get than functionality.

[Tom Servo]

The description of the functionality makes me think the Pioneer HU is controlling Spotify running on your phone, but via USB cable rather than BT.

Yep, which I'm way less concerned about than just being able to stream the audio at all.

[21Kid]

Yeah, if you could do that, that'd be great. I wouldn't think it'd be an issue, but at least one review for a HU I looked at specifically said that Spotify would not work over Bluetooth for him, and that'd definitely be a dealbreaker.

Sorry, I completely forgot. I'll do it when I get home tonight... probably. :finger:

[thesameguy]

If you're up for doing the work yourself, you can always enlist Crutchfield. Their sales people tend to know their stuff and worse case can always get answers, and they will provide you everything you need to install. It's not a totally painless approach, but honestly you messing up your car feels a lot better than a lot of the people the installation places employ.

[21Kid]

We have this one... But I haven't tried Spotify... It plays my podcasts and Amazon music, besides the normal stuff, so I think it'd work. I can test Spotify out later when I get home

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PVBZ8A0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Confirmed! And it's only $230.1953

[Tom Servo]

Nice, thanks for confirming, that's perfect! And a Moto X to boot, so we know her phone will work.

I'm thinking about maybe going the Crutchfield route, but ever since we bought the house I've suddenly found myself unable to accomplish even simple tasks without colossally fucking them up, so we'll see how that goes.

[thesameguy]

You can always chat with them and ask for a copy of the install instructions so you can judge the difficulty. You may find it very easy or beyond what you'd like to tackle - it's always a gamble with modern cars, but you're just as likely to find it's a pair of screws and some trim clips as 50 screws and complete dash disassembly. ;)

[21Kid]

That's one thing that Crutchfield is great at... install instructions. I've used them soley for that purpose before.

For example... http://www.crutchfield.com/S-kAjce3DzWEJ/learn/2006-2012-toyota-rav4.html

This (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_105KWV220B/JVC-KW-V220BT.html)looks like the newer model of the one I have. It's $250, but the added instructions are a life saver.

edit: looks like it would need an adapter for the steering wheel controls to work (+$80)

[Tom Servo]

Even with the adapter, that's well within budget. You happy with the hardware performance (like that hopefully it's not laggy with inputs, or takes a while to start up)?

[21Kid]

Yes. Honestly, I wasn't sure it was Spotify playing at first last night, because it loaded before the text came up. I thought it was the radio playing for a second. It does take a few seconds to start up when you first start the car. But, switching to anything else after that is mostly instantaneous.

You do have to start Pandora/Spotify/whatever on your phone at first, but then the forward, pause, etc... buttons work. However if you want to change stations, you have to do it on your phone. :(

And I'm sure this is true with all stereos, but switching between bluetooth devices is the only part that kind of annoys me. If both my wife and I are in the car. I have to turn off the association with her device if I want to use mine instead.
But, I'm sure that happens with all of them. Otherwise, how will the stereo know which device to use, if they are both on.

I got a back-up camera for it... but, haven't installed it. So, I can't comment on how the video looks. Nor did I override the "can't play DVD while moving" safety equipment either. Because honestly, my kids use their phone/tablet anyway, and I didn't need to. But, I did think about it.

But, I love having the USB option for listening to music on road trips, when there is no good radio or cell phone connection. Thanks Montana!
Oh, speaking of USB. I don't think the USB charges my phone. Maybe the new one is different. But, I think I remember only being able to use the USB for connection, and not charging. We got a dual 12v charger a long time ago, and haven't tried in a while. But, I think that's why we got that to begin with.

It also comes with a speaker that you can mount for bluetooth calling. I ran mine up the A pillar and mounted it right over the rear-view mirror. It's a thin single wire you can easily tuck in there. But, you can pick where ever you want to put it. I thought about running it down the middle counsel, but my wife likes to put her purse there, so that idea fizzled out pretty quickly.

You can re-arrange the tiles on the "home" screen too. Which is helpful. There are 3 big tiles and 2 small ones. I use Antenna, BT audio, and USB, for the big ones... then BT phone and Pandora for the small ones. And honestly, I use BT audio for Pandora, instead of the integrated Pandora, because I might end up using BT for something else, and I don't want to be stuck with just Pandora.

Oh, it has some other useless stuff too. Like you can add your own picture to the background. But I never tried. You have to upload it to the USB, and it has to be like a 40x200 pic or something. The backgrounds aren't all that great either. But it works good, so that's all that really matters to me.

[thesameguy]

And I'm sure this is true with all stereos, but switching between bluetooth devices is the only part that kind of annoys me. If both my wife and I are in the car. I have to turn off the association with her device if I want to use mine instead.
But, I'm sure that happens with all of them. Otherwise, how will the stereo know which device to use, if they are both on.

That is probably age related. The Pioneer I had in the Alfa was like that, but the Pioneer that's in the motorhome will support multiple simultaneous connections.


It also comes with a speaker that you can mount for bluetooth calling.

Microphone? :)

[Tom Servo]

That's sounding nearly ideal, especially given the price. She doesn't usually change stations on Spotify, she just has a playlist on shuffle that she normally plays. As is, she's reasonably happy with just the standard auxiliary connection, which of course provides no control over what's playing via the stereo, you have to do everything with the phone. I'm just running with the fact that she's mentioned more than once that the wires bug her and, when we had a Volkswagen Golf rental car, she really liked having Bluetooth and the screen showing what's playing, so that sounds like it ticks all the necessary boxes.

Thanks everyone!

[21Kid]

It also comes with a speaker that you can mount for bluetooth calling.
Microphone?

Doh! :o yes. I was typing that on one screen and working on another. I'm surprised it was that coherent. :lol:

We also use this (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YE6D7I8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)to hold our phones which makes it very convenient if you need to use the phone for anything. And with the MotoX, you can make the headunit a trusted device (http://www.androidcentral.com/how-use-trusted-devices-android-50-lollipop), so you don't have to unlock it.

if any of that helps. :)

[Tom Servo]

It most definitely does, the trusted device thing is awfully nice.

[Tom Servo]

Thanks for your help everyone! Went with the JVC, it seemed like it ticked all the boxes while affording a nice price discount presumably because it doesn't have navigation (and I have yet to find an HU navigation that works better than Android's nav), and the reviews were solid. Got that and the install kit from Crutchfield, so we might try to take a crack at installing it, but I have a feeling my wife would prefer someone else do it. Sounds like it won't cost all that much to have that done, so we should be all set. Thanks again!

[Kchrpm]

Good job team!

[Yw-slayer]

Nice one.

I have found that the magnetic mounts are the best for car use, particularly when you are a "spirited" driver. Just keep them away from your iPod classics and hard disks... :lol:

[CudaMan]

I want to improve the sound quality of the Z on a budget.

So as a bit of an update...

It turns out the weakest link in the non-Bose 350Z audio system is the head unit. When scrambling to finish the new blue Z before Nationals I wanted to change the stereo, speakers, and misc associated electronics but was in a real time crunch so I just changed the head unit, 'stealing' the Pioneer from the other Z. Needed iPod for the long drive. :)

And sound quality is much improved. Not amazing, but a marked difference. In fact the OEM speakers sound better paired with this Pioneer HU than the Kickers do. That was the real surprise. And now the Kickers in the old car with the stock HU sound truly horrible. :thppt: :)

I still have four Polk 6.5s and an Alpine mini amp to install when I get around to it. Or, rather, if I decide to keep the car long term. Between the tire eating / fuel economy issues and the persistent O2 sensor CELs, and the fact it already won a national championship, I'm already considering moving on. I know, my car ADD has gotten bad. :lol:

[Godson]

In thinking of a boxster for STU...

[Kchrpm]

C5 Z06.

[CudaMan]

Been on the Want list for a while.

[Godson]

C5 Z06.

Not ST* class legal.

C5 FRC is though.

[Kchrpm]

Odd, I thought I had discussions with Teddie and Bryan (separately) about the C5Z being in a sweet spot for a certain class.

[Godson]

AS perhaps? I doubt Bryan would run in a SP class as that is a whole 'nother ball of wax

[CudaMan]

AS/SSR. Preferably SSR as often as possible. Hoosiers rock.

Too bad they're a little pricey (regardless of how good a value they are!), long and wide for my tiny garage, and don't carry the right badge. ;)

They also apparently have a tendency to munch engines with sustained high Gs. They went to dry sump one generation too late.

[thesameguy]

Accusump?

[novicius]

370Z time. :rawk:

[CudaMan]

I like those too. :) They're C5 Z06 price territory still, although they'll keep coming down. This one (http://slo.craigslist.org/ctd/5851832878.html) has quite the sales pitch. ;)

tsg, Accusump totally not legal in Stock class. :)

[CudaMan]

AS perhaps? I doubt Bryan would run in a SP class as that is a whole 'nother ball of wax
Modern cars can still be street driven SP cars. If it weren't for the stupidly fast Mazdaspeed Miata being a class killer in BSP, I could totally see myself taking the Z there. Just mount up some Hoosiers and call it good. :D

[Godson]

Right, but to be at the highest level I thought certain things were allowed that increase cost a fair amount, like ITBs, etc

[thesameguy]

I like those too. :) They're C5 Z06 price territory still, although they'll keep coming down. This one (http://slo.craigslist.org/ctd/5851832878.html) has quite the sales pitch. ;)

tsg, Accusump totally not legal in Stock class. :)

Well, that's lame. What's the justification for that? Maybe cars that don't grenade engines are more competitive than those that do? :smh:

[Random]

Stock = stock. There are a number of other cars in the same boat with minor reliability mods that aren't legal.

[thesameguy]

Oh, I get it, but if a change doesn't do anything other than save your car from grenading there should be a system in place to let that happen. I understand it doesn't work that way, but the hard line for the sake of the hard line is every beat as lame as cheater cars staying in their classes year after year. I guess that's why people drive NASA.

:P

[Godson]

Stock = stock. There are a number of other cars in the same boat with minor reliability mods that aren't legal.

Yeah. The imsb is one that they actually allow to be addressed

[thesameguy]

Reeeeeeeeeedonkulus.

[Yw-slayer]

Ahem. Car audio.

[Random]

Well, you try being a rules maker and deciding at what point "reliability" starts becoming "performance." :) It's way easier to just not have the conversation.

ps. you can generally add whatever sound equipment you want. ;)

[thesameguy]

... but IMSB is allowed, so they've clearly had one.

I am not looking for rhyme or reason to why the SCCA does what the SCCA does, well aware there isn't any. For every hard line position they take there's an exception, for every well thought out stance they have there's an exception. I grasp the difficulty of creating rules for such an enormous variety of products and the even larger difficulty of enforcing them, but that doesn't mean all the nonsense doesn't deserve an :smh: :D

[Yw-slayer]

I just called my car audio installer and checked if they have some new Android Auto head units. They said they did. I might go check them out. But I have to move and re-model a room at work, so car audio expenses should probably go on the back-burner.

[thesameguy]

Are these like the Parrots? I am thinking about going that route in the Jeep, despite the fact the primary user has an iPhone.

[Yw-slayer]

Possibly, if you mean the Parrot head unit. I just want something that's easier to use than my c. 2009 Alpine based on a Windows CE with fiddly buttons.

[thesameguy]

Yep, that. Buy it, share with the group! :D

[Yw-slayer]

Do you mean this thing from 2013/2014?

https://www.parrot.com/us/car-kits/parrot-asteroid-smart#parrot-asteroid-smart
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/car-tech/head-units/parrot-asteroid-smart-1171264/review

Or do you mean the cancelled RNB6 head unit?

http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/08/03/parrot-decides-its-crazy-complex-probably-crazy-expensive-android-auto-head-unit-is-too-complex-expensive-for-you-to-buy/

Because I was thinking of going for something a bit newer and that I could actually buy. :D

Or fuck usability, because this looks fucking awesome, which is important when it's one of the last things you see before yoyu go off a cliff while trying to change tracks? http://www.sony.com/electronics/in-car-receivers-players/rsx-gs9

[thesameguy]

There was a Parrot head unit at Crutchfield as early as the beginning of this year, but I don't know if it's still available.

Regardless of the actual brand or model, are you talking about a device similar to that.

TBH, that Sony head unit looks gimmicky as hell.

[Yw-slayer]

Something like that, I guess.

That Sony one has no display and is 2x the price of the head units with displays. So the SOUND Must be BETTERZ right?!?!?}!?!!

But seriously. I'll see what they have.

[thesameguy]

https://www.carjoying.com/head-unit/c-h/ford-head-units/f150/joying-newest-us-warehouse-universal-double-2din-head-unit-android-5-1-1-lollipop-7-inch-car-stereo-hd-1024-600-quad-core-gps-navigation-system-with-bluetooth-dvr-obd2-mirror-link-goole-map.html

?

[Yw-slayer]

It's ok, but now with Google Auto being available on phones I wonder if I need a new HU at all.

[thesameguy]

It's no basketball hoop over the windshield or tire barrier, but on Friday night the Suburban suffered a loss - the girl street parked it in Oakland overnight and failed to remove the stereo faceplate so, surprise, someone smashed the passenger window and stole the stereo. Kind of no major loss, but I'm irked she didn't take basic precautions and irked I got essentially zero time on the new speakers. Also, wtf, it's the holidays. :smh:

Fortunately, no real damage was done - it was just a moving window which cost $35 to replace, and they were remarkably gentle removing the dash, stereo, and wiring... nothing mangled or cut near as I can tell. Could have been way, way worse. Unfortunately replacement is going to be a huge pain. Nobody makes stereos with rear aux inputs anymore, and nobody makes stereos with CD changer controls that can reporpoised for aux inputs. I guess I don't explicitly need this, but without the DVD system (the one I have never used) is useless. Academically, that's sucks. Not sure why I am caring, but I do. The Alpine CDE-HD149BT is the only single-DIN head unit that does what I need, and it's freakin' $300. Not doing that.

Metra now makes two kits - one is a full dash fascia replacement and the other an adapter of sorts - that allow fitting of a double-DIN stereo. The full dash seems cool, but is available only in black and I think would look quite bad - plus it's $150. The adapter isn't ideal and does require hacking up the factory fascia, but it's $10 which makes it a lot more attractive -

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn305/88gmctruck/98%20Silverado%20K3500/427B4B15-D451-4131-A847-C21AB294BA8E.jpg

It seems reasonable.

Double DIN stereos don't inherently offer better rear aux in options, but when you move into the LCD displays they offer support for rear view cameras and DVD systems which accomplishes the same thing. From a little research it seems the Pioneer AVH-X3800BHS ticks all the boxes:

http://images2.crutchfieldonline.com/ImageHandler/trim/620/378/products/2015/42/130/g130X380BHS-F.jpg

Rear input, rear USB, HD radio, Bluetooth. All the things the stereo I had had, and lightens my pocket by $230. Rad?

Despite being gigantic, it offers the same 14w RMS the old single DIN stereo offered. I was willing to accept lackluster performance on a low-budget piecemeal system, but if cash is being spent it's gon be spent. Time to test a low-budget amp.

What I learned is the GMT400 has some sort of 4-channel amp already, one I don't understand. The front components are powered directly from the head unit, but the rear door speakers and rear roof speakers get powered by the amp. I don't know the specs on any of these, but full steam ahead.

I've ordered a Kenwood KAC-M1804 -

http://images.crutchfieldonline.com/ImageHandler/trim/620/378/products/2014/21/113/g113KAM1804-F.jpg

It's 45w by four channels, which is about the middle for these amps, but offers the most square form factor - most are skinny rectangles. The square seems the easiest shape to place. We'll see. Thing is, this amp is not bridgeable so I don't immediately know how to power three pair of speakers, but maybe some combination of head unit power and amp power? Dunno.

I also ordered one of these:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81HsyNoaZnL._SL1200_.jpg

Which is rated 2x50w but is actually 2x25w RMS into eight ohms at 14v. It's pretty small - 3" x 2" - so maybe I can power the front door speakers with it, and leave the rear four speakers on the factory amp. Basically just a power improvement for the speakers current lacking power.

I've not yet ordered the head unit - I am going to see how everything fits, then figure out a way to see how things sound, then get a head unit in. All this research factors into the Jeep as well, since it has a weird-sized factory head unit... it's actually is a little weirder, as it features individual amps built onto the speakers. Still, these components give some hands-on and maybe some test fitments. Speaking of, high hopes the Jeep comes back this week (so I can spend next weekend doing ball joints and tie rods).

[thesameguy]

I got the Kenwood amp today - it's pretty compact and I think it's going to work. The next challenge is how to work with the Suburban's factory amp. I've got separates in the front doors powered by the head unit, coax speakers in the rear doors which are powered by the factory amp, and coax speakers in the way way back that pass through the factory amp, but apparently aren't powered by it. That's what I've read, but I've not tested it.

There aren't many six channel amps, so the two best things I've thought of are:

1. Run the four forward speakers off the Kenwood amp, and re-pin the factory amp to run the far rear speakers
2. Bypass the factory amp entirely and split the Kenwood's rear channels to run all four rearward speakers

It's rare there's anyone but the dog in back so I guess I don't care that much about sound quality back there. I just don't want it to actually suck. ;)

[Yw-slayer]

Dog in back of car. I see what you did there.

[thesameguy]

It's her favorite thing!

[Godson]

Does the miss condone what you are saying about her right now?

[thesameguy]

She knows she's a dog. And that she's my favorite thing in the world!

[Godson]

Euphemisms for days

[thesameguy]

Nope, no euphemisms - she loves the truck!

http://sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/99suburban_sammy.jpg

UPS dropped the ball on my stereo install parts, but delivered them finally yesterday. The double DIN adapter is about the quality I expected... it's not special, but it works ...

http://sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/99suburban_doubledindadapter1.jpg

The color match is pretty good, but the it's typical Metra quality in terms of design... :smh:

http://sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/99suburban_doubledindadapter2.jpg

It'll work, though.

Need to order a stereo, I guess.

I was originally only considering something with a TFT display since I find all the non-TFT double DIN units to be really cheesy looking, but it's a 17 year old $2000 Suburban. Putting a $250 stereo in it hurts a little, I may have to give my sense of aesthetics on this one... not that that's much to abandon. :|

[thesameguy]

I remember now how I ended up with the TFT models... none of the lesser stereos have a rear aux input. Where is my mind?

I ordered the X3800BHS. I almost caved and went for the MVH-290BT which is about $60 less... but you give up the DVD player, a pair of preamps, preamp voltage, HD radio, and something else. $60 seemed like a too-small premium to skip those things, so whatever. X3800 it is. I think it's supposed to be delivered tomorrow!

[Godson]

Nice

[21Kid]

I have used the DVD player in mine exactly zero times since install.

[thesameguy]

I will likely never use it either, which is why I was considering the mechless MVH model, but this model comes with $60 worth of things I will use, so given I want those things I'd just as soon have the drive as not. If the mechless model was shallower like the single DIN models are, I would have definitely gone that route, but all the double DINs are the same size, so no savings there. And, I'm not going to have it forever - it might be a sales point for someone else.

Edit: I guess we've bought CDs at shows before and listened to them on the way back - though we'd rarely drive the Suburban downtown or to SF. Although we did drive it to Reno and listened to a CD we bought at that show on the way back, soo... ;)

[21Kid]

I've always kind of wondered about rear output. Are there really any songs that use F+R on top of L+R? Does it make any difference? Or is it just so you can control the F/R db level?

[thesameguy]

Car audio is virtually always stereo audio, though there are a few systems that have various surround sound and center channel support (like my '86 XR4Ti :lol:). But the source is pretty much exclusively stereo, any breakup of sound beyond that is done in software.

The Suburban has three pair of stereo speakers (front middle rear) which makes wiring this thing s pain. I have found a couple opinions on how it works, but the common answer seems to be the fronts are powered directly from the head unit, the two rear pair go through an amp. Not sure how I'm going to deal with that yet, but I got the stereo yesterday so I guess I gotta figure it out soon. I'm leaning towards powering the front two pair off the Kenwood amp, and the rear pair off the head unit, but I'm not sold on that. Still some other possibilities, including abandoning the rearmost speakers entirely.

[21Kid]

Doesn't the dog like good sound?

[thesameguy]

Her head is out the window at all times, I doubt she can hear anything. :lol:

[speedpimp]

Doesn't the dog like good sound?

Nah, too much woofer.

[21Kid]

Are you sure you're not a dad? :erm:




You've got dad jokes for days!!!

[thesameguy]

I ordered the X3800BHS. I almost caved and went for the MVH-290BT which is about $60 less... but you give up the DVD player, a pair of preamps, preamp voltage, HD radio, and something else. $60 seemed like a too-small premium to skip those things, so whatever. X3800 it is. I think it's supposed to be delivered tomorrow!

I'm not going to say it's a piece of shit, but the X3800BHS is a real disappointment. It's impossible to understand what they were thinking when they designed the software, it makes ZERO sense!!!

When you first power it up, it asks your language and some other questions, then gets to "Smartphone setup" where it gives you a choice of iPhone/iPod or Other. Depending on how you answer that question, the subsequent "Interface" question change from USB/BT to USB/AppRadioOne. That seems like insufficient granularity, but what's worse is that your answer to these questions affects how the stupid head unit works. If you tell it you want to connect your iPhone with BT it disables the USB port entirely. If you tell it you have an Other phone connected via USB, it disables Bluetooth entirely. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. I went through all permutations, and eventually determined that if I tell it I have an iPhone connected via USB, I can use a flash drive in the USB port, my cell to make phone calls, but Bluetooth audio streaming is disabled. THAT'S INSANE, but I can live with it.

There is no way to have music on a flash drive and use a cell phone for both phone calls and BT streaming. It's not possible. I never use Bluetooth streaming so this doesn't affect me, but it's an annoying limitation and I'm irked that nowhere in the documentation (or advertising info!) does it discuss this. I can't even.

So, ignoring the BT/USB problem, the stereo works well. Touchscreen response is lagged in an expected way, but, you know, it was expected so whatever. Fortunately there are physical buttons for the home screen, volume controls, and prev/next so touchscreen use should be minimal. I am really happy there is a physical DISPLAY button which turns the display entirely off. That's great! I didn't know it was a thing, but either HD Radio or RDS (don't know which it is) now supports album art, so when you're listening to the radio you get station information as well as artwork for the song that's playing. Kinda neat. It reads my 128gb flash drive, and doesn't have the "turns itself off" problem the previous stereo did with that drive. It is complaining to me about "no database found" on the flash drive, and wants me to make a new one. I tried that once, but after about eight minutes of processing it hadn't finished so I aborted. Kinda worried that might be borked with a 128gb flash drive. It is nice being able to see full folder/file information when looking for a file - although ultimately I'm not sure how often I do anything except shuffle a folder or the whole drive. Maybe I will now! :lol: Bluetooth works well, sound quality is actually better than the previous stereo which is nice. The aux input is baffling - there is a 1/8" AV jack, as well as a trio of RCA jacks. I randomly had the AV jack cable and it works fine, but the RCA jacks do nothing. :shrug: As expected, when you switch it to aux in, the entire screen warns you DO NOT USE THE VIDEO SCREEN WHILE DRIVING but that never goes away. I get that you aren't going to show me video, and that's fine, but it could at least return to the home screen and show controls and such rather than just sitting in an error state forever. I guess this is why people make parking brake simulators. I know I'm going to! :smh:

I scuttled my plan to put an amp in - I was sick of working on this project, and despite being tiny the Kenwood amp would not fit in the dash so installation would have required a lot more wiring and such. I will probably return it to it later - perhaps in combination with replacing the rear speakers. On the upside, installing the double DIN stereo required very little cutting - none of the inner dash had to be modified in any way. On the downside, the Metra plastic thingy is really shitty and yields a somewhat shitty result. Observe!

I think the expectation is instead of leaving a little string of plastic you remove the entire but, but I was concerned that doing so would result in the remaining plastic flopping around, so as carefully as I could I remove only what was necessary -

http://sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/99suburban_doubledinpioneer1.jpg

That plastic is REALLY thick, that cut was not easy! The Metra side brackets are All Wrong. Or, maybe the Pioneer stereo is All Wrong.

http://sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/99suburban_doubledinpioneer2.jpg

I don't know. But that arrow is where they expect you to put a screw - and that hole is not designed to accept one. I had to modify the slots and drill one new hole in order to put screws where Pioneer wanted them. The end result is not perfect -

http://sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/99suburban_doubledinpioneer3.jpg

If I'd had a way to make a smoother cut I would have, but I didn't. I really don't know what sort of tool you'd use here... Maybe the world's sharpest knife? My big ass Olfa wouldn't cut the plastic, so I don't know. Why the Metra adapter doesn't wrap inwards around the face plate for a nice finish I will never know - a few extra mm of plastic would be everything here, but they didn't feel it was necessary. I'm not all that upset - it's only an issue if you look for it - from a normal seating position it looks just fine.

Here is the Menu of Doom - the one where all choices lead to your destruction!

http://sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/99suburban_doubledinpioneer4.jpg

You can see the lower information - "Functions Available." Depending on your entry, Functions Available changes. So bad. I tried everything, dog was of no help.

http://sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/99suburban_doubledinpioneerdog.jpg

She loves the truck.

Hopefully nobody steals this stereo. I don't ever want to take this dash apart again. Ever.

[KillerB]

I got my wife a Pioneer DEH-X8800BHS for her Durango for Christmas. It had been over ten years since I last installed a car stereo, so I had some trepidation, but everything went fine.

I'm really impressed with this unit - enough so I'm thinking of picking one up for the Mazda.

[thesameguy]

I think that'd be the current equivalent of what was stolen out of the Suburban. I really liked that head unit - if the current/X8800 had a rear aux input, I never would have gone to the trouble of a double DIN. :smh:

[KillerB]

Yeah, we wanted rear USB much more that rear AUX, which is why we went with this.

The trouble with putting this unit in the Mazda is that the available kit to make it fit is apparently some crazy multipiece kit made to work with basically all 80s and 90s Mazdas and it gets some very mixed reviews - and I can't find any that state how it fits in the B-series. Also, the mounting location is so low, I'm wondering whether double-DIN would fit the stereo pocket so I could go with this (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130X580BHS/Pioneer-AVH-X5800BHS.html?search=X5800BHS&skipvs=T) and tilt the screen up a bit to make it more visible.

[thesameguy]

I am familiar with that kit, it's a complete clusterfuck. But, if you pay attention when you're installing you have a few opportunities to shore it up (and yes, I'm talking about adhesives) to make it less fidgety. ;)

The Japanese almost always used strict double DIN, so if what's there now is not single, it's almost assuredly double.

[21Kid]

When I replaced the original head-unit on my Impreza, I got a standard single-din, and was able to order a OEM storage pocket that went underneath it. Maybe something like that is available if you wanted to stay with a single din. That headunit also had a tilt function, and it was pretty handy.

[CudaMan]

Electricity still owns me. :) I'm in the midst of installing various audio and related equipment in the Z and I'm not clear on some things.

The car already has:
- Pioneer AVIC-X940BT head unit (installed with Metra harness adapter to the stock harness plugs - the right way)

I'm installing:
- Alpine KTP‑445U power pack
- Axxess ASWC-1 steering wheel control module
- KP Technologies traction control setting remembering device

These things all need Power and Ground. Two grounds for the ASWC-1, apparently (one of them is the ground wire in the vehicle sub-harness that sends the steering wheel button signals to the OEM radio).

Now the Alpine power pack instructions state that everything should be on the same ground. The Pioneer HU instructions say it needs its own ground (it's currently using whatever factory ground of course, from the Metra harness adapter to the OEM plug, to wherever that goes). I quote: "The ground wire of the power amp and the one of this unit or any other device must be connected to the car separately with different screws."

Which is correct? If I have to find another ground, is anywhere on the metal framework inside the dash sufficient? This is one car where I can't find an existing ground point anywhere near the back of the stereo.

Also, how many times can you splice into a Power wire before it can't take all the demand or bad stuff happens? The TCS module and ASWC-1 shouldn't need much power, but the amp will take a fair bit (no I'm not hooking it up to the battery, the OEM radio wiring is sufficient) and the HU will need some.

I did get the rear speakers installed - those were the easy part, even though people say it's a hard job and most aftermarket speakers don't fit. My Polk DB651s went right in, no adapters needed.

I can do spatial relationship shit and I often have the right tools for the job these days. Just don't ask me to understand what I'm doing with wiring. :lol:

[thesameguy]

Ground is ground is ground, doesn't matter.

On some cars, the ground for the stereo isn't direct - maybe it goes through a module or a computer or something - and you'd want to go straight to chassis, but other than that minor distinction it doesn't matter. For a stereo, I would typically make an effort to ground everything to chassis in the same place to avoid ground loops.

For power, it's a matter of amp draw. I use this chart:

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

You generally want to allow a +25% or +50% margin of error for wire sizing... if you need to run 16a, use 16 or 14ga wire.

The TCS & ASWC probably take almost no power and are ignition-switched - you can probably share the switched power from the old stereo. The amp probably takes 15a-20a unswitched, and you will be best served going to straight to battery with new wire; I don't know the Z, but it'd be unusual to have a 16ga wire just sitting around from the factory... but IIRC the Z was optionable with a pretty hefty stereo, so you might have that.

[CudaMan]

Yeah those two little devices shouldn't need much power at all. See if I can work this through... the amp instructions say there are two methods to connect it to the vehicle power. To the battery (I'll forget the amp entirely if it comes to that), or to the car's radio power wire if the radio fuse in the kick panel is at least 15A. The Z's is 15A. I figure the Pioneer won't be needing nearly as much power as it did before, with its internal amp now being bypassed (I sure hope it's smart enough to turn that off when the audio out is utilized). If I'm reading that chart correctly, 18awg wire should cut it. I'm pretty sure the power wire is at least 18awg. I'll double check of course.

Since I can't find a physical ground nearby I suppose I'll tap into the harness ground wire in three spots. :shrug:

I have the base stereo in the Z. Good thing, too, as it's free of silly pre-amp Bose nonsense.

[thesameguy]

Remember that electricity travels in a loop, so if you have 16ga + you need 16ga - to return it. The only thing that matters is the weakest link - you can't couple three 16ga wires onto a single 16ga wire and run to ground and have "3x16ga" - you still have 1x16ga.

You gotta be able to find a dash crossmember or support or something somewhere nearby - just get an eyelet and a sheet metal screw and a drill. :)

45wx4 =180w = 15a at 12v, so you might be pushing it running both the amp and the stereo off the same 15a fuse. You can try it - worst case you'll pop the fuse. :) Definitely worth a try based on the advice in the instructions.

[CudaMan]

Glad that is over with and everything works. Apparently you do need 2 grounds for the ASWC-1. One is a 'reference' ground for the steering wheel control wires. The instructions were not very clear, fortunately I found a YouTube video from a guy who described it in plain English.

The front speakers are taking some creative thinking. Long story short I may need to stack some speaker adapter brackets to make a spacer, and/or re-drill the doors to fit a Scion xB speaker spacer/adapter that Crutchfield sent me 4 of... The OEM speaker is built into a plastic spacer, and the whole assembly weighs *nothing.* Like less than half of any other factory speaker I've seen. It's remarkable to me they sounded anywhere near as acceptable as they did. Anyway without the spacer there is a clearance problem to the window when it's rolled down, which is the first time I've actually had that problem.

With all the plastic mounting I'm going to use, I'm thinking some thin foam tape between layers might be a good idea to keep rattles away.

[Godson]

I just realized you were having trouble with the ASWC, my experience, albeit limited, was you absolutely needed both grounds separately.


It is Dumb, but the system works out pretty well overall.

[thesameguy]

I vaguely recall having this problem on the Solstice - I ended up calling Axxess and was shocked that I spoke to a person without jumping through any hoops. He gave me a couple pointers, one of which was about the ground, and sure enough it worked. I had completely forgotten about that! I wish the old forum was still available - I'll bet I posted about it! ;)

For the speakers, I would try MDF instead of stacking plastic. MDF won't rattle, will deform a bit, and is easy to work with. I'll bet a custom stereo shop could do the work for you. Or, just pick up one of those cheapo Harbor Freight hole saw kits - it'll be plenty for cutting MDF. That's assuming the speakers are round and small enough. I think the HF kit maxes at 4" or 5". For bigger, you're either talking expensive holesaws or a circle cutter. (Which I am researching right this second)

[CudaMan]

I ended up finding a pair of plastic spacers/adapters that are one piece and known to work in the 2007 350Z. $8 shipped Prime. I did also find an MDF option for $32 (who knows when it'd arrive). I cheaped out on this one a little bit 'cause I want it sooner than later.

It's something I probably should have researched better back when I bought the speakers. I'm not sure why I didn't. That's not like me.

[thesameguy]

Can't argue with $8 - one piece and it should be totally fine. That's how most cars are built these days anyway. :up:

[Tom Servo]

I know it's been a while, but I sat on that Christmas present for months and then we finally just got it installed today.

Thanks again for all the advice. She loves the head unit. Sounds great, pairs easily, fits right into the dash - I'm not sure she could be happier.

You guys rock.

[CudaMan]

Bumpage.

So, urm, how do I get my Pioneer AVIC X940BT and my OnePlus5 to play nicely together? I'm using Google Play Music and CastBox for music and podcasts respectively. Can't figure out how to get it to work. The stereo says to start the connection from the device. Well, Bluetooth is obviously on (I'm not quite that dumb!) but the audio connection is never made. My phone is paired and the stereo sees my address book (I haven't tried to make a call yet but should work).

[Godson]

Is it set up on the phone to play media. Sometimes they take some jacking with to work. Like several deletes of the profile to recognize the ability to stream.

[thesameguy]

Do you have the right Bluetooth profiles set? If you go into the phone's Bluetooth menu and drill down on the connection to the stereo, you should be able to set which profiles are enabled... voice, media, etc.

[CudaMan]

Yep, I have that set to both calls and audio, along with the same option registered in the head unit as well (it claims to have successfully done so). It's almost like it wants me to find a Cast button (is my Chromecast showing?) in any app I use to play music/podcasts, but I can't find one. I play media on the phone and it never makes it to the car audio. CastBox does have a Bluetooth option in the Share menu, but that just tries to send the file to the Pioneer and it rejects it. I thought Bluetooth would stream between devices in this usage scenario.

[thesameguy]

Try turning off the profiles alternately and see if that makes a difference.

I don't know the AVIC, but it's unlikely it supports actual casting... that's a wifi technology, not something you typically find on a car head unit... yet.

[CudaMan]

Yeah, it definitely doesn't have WiFi. I was just relating what it seems like the HU wants from my phone -- some kind of manual 'push' in software to make the HU recognize an audio stream. The phone doesn't recognize what I want, either, I suppose, because audio continually comes out of the phone speaker.

No dice on switching things up and turning off call abilities in the profile of either the HU or the phone. I did find a Bluetooth audio setting in Android that's not under the Bluetooth settings section (logical, no?). It's to switch between AptX, AptX HD, and SBC. Changing those around didn't help either.

[CudaMan]

It might be a OnePlus issue. Lots of posts over the past couple years about audio streaming to OEM car stereos not working, or metadata not showing. Comes and goes with software updates (Android and OxygenOS both).

I will try restarting my phone, and deleting all other Bluetooth profiles from the HU.

[TheBenior]

My OP3T's Bluetooth streaming to my CX-5' factory stereo has issues with failing to play and random pausing. It worked fine when I bought the phone, but some update broke things. Now, it takes being disconnected and reconnected a number of times to work. Meanwhile, my wife's Moto X Pure works just fine, and the OP3T works perfectly fine with the add-on Kinivo Bluetooth adapter in my Mazdaspeed3.

[Sad, little man]

I don't know what the hell you just said, but one of these is pretty much always the answer to every car audio source question ever.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-Cable/dp/B00NO73MUQ/

https://www.amazon.com/Scosche-PCA2-Universal-Cassette-Adapter/dp/B000EC3GDC/

Sounds like you've got a pretty big problem, might want to get two of each.

[Yw-slayer]

Don't you have some other technical equipment you should be dismissing solely on the basis of your opinion based on a single consumer-level brand in a specific context where there was insufficient planning? :p

[Jason]

It might be a OnePlus issue. Lots of posts over the past couple years about audio streaming to OEM car stereos not working, or metadata not showing. Comes and goes with software updates (Android and OxygenOS both).

I will try restarting my phone, and deleting all other Bluetooth profiles from the HU.

FWIW, I have no issues with connecting, metadata, or music playing through my car*. OP5 + 2015 FiST w/ Sync + MyFord Touch. Only bluetooth related setting I've ever adjusted on my phone is changing from SBC to APTX, since my headphones support the latter.

*other than choppy play this morning

[thesameguy]

I thinking about buying one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Joying-Android-6-0-GPS-Navi-Car-Stereo-Radio-Quad-Core-Single-1Din-BT-PIP-DAB-/232012450773?hash=item3605050bd5:g:YmsAAOSwK6RZJoA p

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1aIZnSpXXXXbAXXXXq6xXFXXXM/Joying-8-inch-Android-6-0-AutoRadio-Stereo-Single-1-din-Quad-Core-Universal-Car-Media.jpg_640x640.jpg

Or maybe not.

The stereo in the Viggen uses the SID ("Saab Information Display") as its display, and the display in the Viggen was all screwed up like they all are. That set me down the path of replacing the stereo.

But, the parts car I bought has a FLAWLESS SID (making buying the car totally worth it) and I swapped it in at lunch. It's so nice having a Tech 2. I won't gush, but it's fantastic. Reprogrammed it in a minute, sorted. I can see the radio stations.

Additionally, the parts car I bought has a Pioneer stereo in it (and not an entirely bad one, eiher!) so I had the opportunity to see first hand the slaughtering that you have to do to install a generic aftermarket stereo. Like the Suburban, the Viggen's stereo is Not Quite Double DIN. It's about 1/4" less than double DIN. The Suburban wasn't fun to put a double DIN in, but it wasn't awful and the results are ok. I don't think I can get to my level of ok in the Viggen, and moreover I do not want to hack up an otherwise totally original car. Really not interested in that.

But these wackadoo Joying et al Android stereos are neat. The chassis is single DIN, and the display detaches and is repositionable. Check it:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41t5KbPLzHL.jpg

The intent is to be able to put a huge screen in a single DIN car - and in fact Joying sells a stereo with a gigantic 10" screen - but I think I could also use it to put in a stereo that looks like it's supposed to be there.

Reviews on these Android head units get better every day - from acceptably poor to almost great - and I'm inclined to try it out.

Edit:

This is a cool video - shows the internals of the thing, which I'm sure is more or less universal.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh8SrJbQQSs

It makes me wonder if a good approach would be to buy a real double DIN unit, then shrink it to fit. Hmmmm.

[Yw-slayer]

I got a Pioneer X8850BT. Android Auto on it is truly a game changer.

[thesameguy]

Watching a few more videos, I'm increasingly into the idea. Seems like maybe we have reached a point where Android is good enough and good hardware is cheap enough that this can work.

[Yw-slayer]

Yup. Honestly, the voice recognition is quite cool and so the interface is otherwise very good. Two thumbs up.

"Play Anthrax."
"Play Metal playlist in Spotify."
"Play Celine Dion in Spotify."
"Play Dr Dre."
"Search for Grand Hyatt Steakhouse."

All of them work. And more!! Google Play Music is a bit odd in that it can only find one Dire Straits album on the phone (and nothing else) if you select by hand, nut voice commands work fine. I do need to figure out how to play certain Cantonese/Mandarin songs by voice though.

Admittedly I had to sideload the Android Auto apk as it's not available for download here in HK, but that's OK.

[thesameguy]

The fact that you can sideload functionality onto a car stereo is a stunning indicator of technology. ;)

It appears my dash opening is 187mmx102mm or maybe 187x105mm depending on how flexible certain elements are, and the 7" head unit is 109mm tall. I could ditch or modify the cupholder - that'd be non-invasive and easily repairable, but I'm thinking about trying the 6.2" version instead as it's only 97mm tall. That would leave me about 4mm on each side to fill, which is completely manageable. I don't think that extra .8" is worth fighting for - I'll certainly never use this thing for video playback or cameras and I rarely use navigation. Really, the vast majority of Android is gonna be wasted on me... it major attraction is that it fits without cutting the car. I'm the worst nerd these days.

My sole hesitation is that the 6.2" version only has 1gb of RAM vs the 7" version's 2gb. I'm not worried about resources being a problem for playing MP3s or listening to the radio, but I am a *little* concerned about memory for those rare times I do want to multitask, like MP3+Google Maps or radio+Torque. That could happen. So, maybe not the worst nerd.

I guess there is really only one way to find out.

[Yw-slayer]

Oh, no, I had to sideload it onto my S7, not onto the stereo. If you bought one of the Android HUs you'd be able to sideload anything!

I'd go for 2GB just in case, but like you sort of said, it's not like you're going to be playing Future Fight on the HU.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, I'm really torn on what to do here. Gonna stare at options some more and see how I feel in a week or so. :D

[Yw-slayer]

Put a full gaming PC in your car!!

[thesameguy]

You know, a long time ago I got 95% of the way there. I had a Foxconn (IIRC) "Book PC" which was small enough and cool enough to put under the seat, and used a tiny 8" or so LCD screen from a POS machine to put Windows 98 in a car. I got a Basic STAMP (think proto-Arduino) to control an industrial DC-DC power supply with the ignition. It was pretty cool from a "look what I did" perspective, but seemingly overnight everyone got in on the act and it was a lot less special. And what I quickly found out was that all I really wanted to do was listen to MP3s anyway. :lol: Once head units with USB ports showed up, the whole car PC idea seemed like a big waste of time for me. I could invest a grand in a mobile computer, or a ball bearing CHRA for a hybrid turbo. Wasn't much of a decision. Looking back, I still have that ball bearing turbo and it's fantastic. A 15 year old car PC would be less than worthless. :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

Oh yeah. For sure.

[21Kid]

That Joying unit is... something. It's kind of odd. Would it sit in front of the panels?

I'd rather have it flush, original looking.

[thesameguy]

It's clear their intention is that it can sit out front - check out the gigantic 10.1" version!

https://www.carjoying.de/media/catalog/category/Single_1_Din_android_car_autoradio.jpg

However, my entire point is getting it into the dash, fitted as opposed to bolted-on. The 6.2" version would leave ~4mm of gap between the edge of the panel and the hole in the dash - I'd fill that with maybe some ABS or something. Maybe a bezel could be 3D printed, but I think the "layers" would be evident. Possibly some thick paint could fix that? In any case, I think it could be made to look factory-ish. It'll also require some interesting mounting of the actual chassis, but I picked up a spare factory cage to mess with. I have some good ideas about how to make that work. Well, I think they're good.

I just really don't want to hack up the Viggen's dash in any way, and at the same time FM can only get you so far these days. We do have a kick-ass retro hip hop station now, but the ad cycle is unbearable.

Edit: I will say that this Joying system is cool. I could definitely see a lot of applications where a fixed 10" Android machine stuck onto the dash would be super useful. I'll bet a lot of Lyft drivers would benefit.

[thesameguy]

I thought about it some more and pulled the trigger on the 6.2" version. I think I can make it work in a visually appealing sort of way, and I know my tolerance for top-down motoring is going to be very limited with only FM radio. Hopefully it's as decent as reviews say. TBH, if I was comparing against traditional stereos that mostly just work I wouldn't have such a positive outlook, but comparing against the Pioneer AVH-X3800BHS in the Suburban, where lots of stuff doesn't work *great*, I think I can have reasonable expectations. Not sure how I feel about that. :lol:

Anyway, I had all the right parts in the garage, so I made up an adapter to connect a regular stereo to the Viggen's proprietary amp and temp-wired an ISO radio harness to a spare Pioneer stereo to be sure I could easily make an aftermarket stereo work in the Viggen.

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/02viggen_pioneertest.jpg

Yep, that works.

At least I know the wiring won't be a challenge. The challenge will be making it fit right.

Unrelated, I yanked the subwoofer out of the parts 9-3 just to clear room in the trunk for actual junk.

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/0293partout/0293parts_sub.jpg

It's almost new. I'm really torn on whether I should keep it or sell it. It's one of those things I will almost certainly never use - I can't imagine being willing to give up trunk space to that monstrosity - but OTOH I won't get much for it, and if I ever do want a 12" sub... IDK.

[21Kid]

:up: Looking forward to the after pics. ;)

[thesameguy]

What? Wire nuts not professional enough for you? :smh:

[21Kid]

As long as you also electrical tape them. :p

[thesameguy]

Props to China. Order head unit on Wednesday, they deliver it Friday. I can't get mail from San Francisco that quickly.

[thesameguy]

I think this is going to work out great:

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/02viggen_joyingtestfit.jpg

99% sure my mounting solution will work without issue. The stereo includes an ISO-compatible wiring harness so is 90% plug & play - I just need to make an adapter to intercept the steering wheel controls. Only real things to do are figure out how (or if!) I want to actually block the space behind the display, and how best to make trim to fill in the space between the dash and the display. Those two things can be done after the actual install, so I can hopefully enjoy it for a while and make sure it fits my needs before investing time in custom details.

[Random]

Stick some EL wire in the gap and call it a day. :D

[thesameguy]

Great minds! I was seriously thinking about some side-lit RBG LEDs. It would be totally stupid, but it would fill the gap. :lol:

It's getting dark early these days, but so far so good.

Factory cage lightly modified so that the 1-din Joying can be secured. I actually junkyarded this cage since I wasn't sure how this was going to go. Clearly wasn't necessary - I could have done this on the one in the car and still used it with the factory stereo.

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/02viggen_joying1.jpg

Two little half-moons in the dash to clear the screws in the cage. I probably could have found some nicer button-head screws, but I used what I had. You can't see this adjustment with the stereo installed.

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/02viggen_joying2.jpg

Cage and head unit chassis test-installed. No wiring is done, but proof of concept. ;)

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/02viggen_joying3.jpg

Total panic.

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/02viggen_joying4.jpg

After three reboots the head unit fixed itself. Coincidentally, this is exactly what my clone Tech 2 did the first time I booted it up... totally scrambled display! There is a label on the head unit that says in truly broken English "After reattaching the display press the reset button" so I did that. It was less scrambled the second time, so I did it again. Looked better, so I did it one more time. Third time's the charm!

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/02viggen_joying5.jpg

I cycled the ignition a few times and it's stayed intact, so I think it's good. In doing so, I noticed the thing loses about half its settings every time the key is switched off and back on. I changed about a half dozen things, they get lost when I turn it off. :(

Then I remembered reading somewhere that Saab swapped battery (+30) and switched (+15) wires on their ISO connector. That could explain this, so I will check it out tomorrow. I actually think the B5 A4 was the same, thinking about it.

I was able to tune radio stations and all the speakers seem to be working. One thing I did not notice ahead of time is that the Joying has only a mono sub out. I can either run the door speakers in mono, or connect them to the rear pre-amp outputs. Not sure yet, a little disappointed about this but it's fine.

The only other "challenge" so far is that Joying has separate leads for amp trigger and antenna trigger, and neither are in the ISO connector, they're just loose. I'm not immediately sure how I am going to deal with the antenna wire. I don't want to cut the factory wiring, but I may have no choice. I don't have any spare terminals for the Joying connector housing and I don't recognize it.

[Mr Wonder]

That looks great! For the features and price I don't think you could do better with the traditional brands. Saab did indeed swap the permanent and switched 12v feeds in their ISO connectors - strange that only some settings are lost though - perhaps a battery backup in the unit for more important stuff?

Most head units used two leads for a low current switched 12v out, one for antenna and one for an amplifier. The idea being that if the car had a retractable electric aerial it would only extend when needed and could be dropped for car washes and the like. When they first appeared I honestly couldn't tell you how many installs I had to fix because the sound was only coming out for the FM radio source! Also they don't like more than ~300ma or so and are generally either non-fused or have an internal one that requires unit disassembly to access, by the time you have an electric aerial and a few amps you could be straying near that depending on the components involved.

[thesameguy]

So far - which is not very far - I am sure what's missing in a $200 Android versus a $200 Pioneer is polish. Lots of stuff is a little off - for example, you can't hit the physical buttons on their icon - you gotta touch them a little off center or they don't register. Stuff like that. But so far I haven't found any dealbreakers, so that's positive. Still barely scratched the surface, however.

I was mostly just surprised to find discrete amp/ant leads - that's a very "specialized" feature that most consumer-grade car stereos don't have. Really just Alpine and some Kenwood. Usually these off-brand stereos really keep it cheap, but it's nice to see they tried. Two 500ma switches! Not bad.

Gonna install the SWCs, mic and GPS antenna today... we'll see how that goes.

[Yw-slayer]

Looks sweet, bro. I'm now trying to figure out if I should get a 512GB SD card and stick all my FLAC rips onto it for when (for whatever reason) I don't want to listen to music that's on the phone. It's more likely I'll just stick with a 200-256GB SD card and MP3s.

[thesameguy]

I have now achieved total failure.

It started with the power antenna not working. I thought perhaps I had miswired something, so I removed the unit enough to get a multimeter on the connectors. 12v from the amp control, 0v from the antenna control. For grins I disconnected the amp control and connected it to the antenna and that worked. So, I know for sure the antenna works on just 12v (I knew that already) and I know for sure my wiring is good. The head unit just isn't powering up the antenna lead for whatever reason.

I played with it for a couple hours, including a factory reset. That was a bad idea... display came up scrambled again and has essentially remained that way ever since. A couple reboots got it straightened out, then failure again.

I contacted the seller... now I get to see how onerous aliexpress is to deal with. I'm actually not expecting too bad - the merchant doesn't get paid until I ok the transaction, and I always have my credit card's dispute process to fall back on. I think what it really comes down to is whether I'm gonna have to ship this thing back to Hong Kong or not on my own dime... and whether I have to do that first or if they will send an advance replacement. I really hope the latter, as I do *not* want to have to redo the wiring harness and I do not want to have to remove & reinstall the GPS antenna. That would suck balls.

In in the interim, back to the stock stereo. Here's to a zero-mod stereo install. :up:

[thesameguy]

I didn't want to end the weekend on a low note, so I spent some time on the SPG, getting more wiring done. The dog's surgery jacked up my rhythm and I've found it hard to get it back. When things are fresh in your head you can get back to them day after day, but take a month off and it's a big hurdle to remember where you were and what you were doing. But, I spent 12 hours on the SPG yesterday and I feel like I'm on track there.

The factory set up is a pair of 4x10s in the rear deck. It's a crap speaker size and a crap location. The first 900 (and 99s before them) had little 4" Philips speakers in the rear side panels, and I've seen & done similar on other 900s since. What I ran into here in 2017 was totally unexpected: Nobody makes a shallow 4" or 5.25" speaker with a grille anymore. WTF? "No grilles included" was becoming really annoying. So, I hit up a junkyard a couple weeks ago and sliced up a car real bad, real real bad, so I could take some measurements and determined exactly what I was working with.

What I found was that I could clear 6.5" speakers with a 2" depth.

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/c900_t5/rearspeakerfront.jpg

TBH, I'm not super pleased with how crowded that looks, but a) choices were limited, b) I don't have to sit back there (actually, nobody can - no seatbelts), and c) I couldn't continue with 4x10s. It'll do. Nicely, the speaker that fit 6.5"/2" depth/with grilles were Infinity Reference 6520CX components, which are exactly the same speakers I'm using in the front. I'm actually kinda stoked about that. Both are connected to that "mini" Kenwood KAC-M1804 amp, so I should have some good sound. Eventually. I think I'm calling off the front door project for now - it's a buttload of fabrication and I'm not prepared for it.

Installing these speakers went great. I learned a lot about hardware since the last time I tried this. :) I ordered some M4 tee nuts and button-head M4x30mm screws from McMcMaster-Carr, which resulted in a super-clean, super-sturdy mounting. I had to get creative with the top screw using scrap from the cutouts, but it worked great. This will be the first time I've done this install where I can actually remove the speakers from the panels without cursing. All the other installs were really clumsy.

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/c900_t5/rearspeakerback.jpg

So, at least some car audio success this weekend. ;)

[Yw-slayer]

On another note, I've realised that the stock interface also accepts an ipod. I'm going to see how it handles my ipod which has had a 256GB flash card installed into it. The interface can't possibly be worse than the one in my old Alpine!

[21Kid]

The joying looks good! :cool::up: Hopefully if you get a new unit from the seller everything will work out. :cheers:


Why did you install the Infinity speakers sideways? :assclown:

[thesameguy]

To make enough room to clear the speaker cables without straining them.

[21Kid]

:assclown: <-- I was kidding.

[thesameguy]

No, it's a legit question and I'm annoyed that Infinity created grilles that support limited installation orientations. It's pointless and short sighted. But, we make do... although it's gonna bug me a bit for a while. ;)

[thesameguy]

Got back together with Joying. They are definitely angling to do nothing, but sticking with it so I'm not upset.

This afternoon I decided to take apart the head unit, and found a tiny cable is likely the issue with the display. The mainboard connects to a daughterboard with a small, delicate cable that has obvious physical damage. Messing with this cable alternately scrambles and unscrambles the display. I tried flattening it and reinstalling it, but no dice - little jolts scramble the display. I now understand the previous and apparently random problems, so that's progress. I was able to adjust it so that I could do a firmware update hoping to restore the antenna function but no dice. Still no antenna. Everything else works great, though. Being the contingency thinker I am, I am trying to decide whether I'd be okay with a new cable and a discount in exchange for a non-functioning antenna trigger. I could use the amp trigger - all I lose is the ability to lower the antenna when not listening to the radio. It's not world-ending - lots of stereos are like that.

My new bench power supply is awesome. Set at 14v I was able to run the stereo indoors in a science-y way. At full tilt - installing firmware for example - power consumption maxes out at <.8a, which is not much. It generally sits around .4 or .5a. I assume if the speakers were connected that number would go up, but at "idle" that's not a lot of power. When turned off - which isn't actually "off" but "sleep," consumption is .008a at 14v. It's tangibly more than none, but not a lot. It's kind of impressive that an instant-on Intel CPU can "run" at that power. I was also able to take some temp readings. The heat sink (it's passively cooled) hangs out at 90F pretty much non-stop, and I'm not sure whether that goes up with the amp running. That's well within the CPU's tolerance, but I do worry a bit about it staying within tolerances when it's 140 degrees in the cabin. Once this is sorted, I may install a small fan to circulate air. There's plenty of room to do that.

I am waiting for the next step from Joying, but it was a productive night. I'm tired now though.

Edit: I like this relationship I have with the seller. They sent me a picture of the mainboard and highlighted a leg of a voltage regulator and asked for a meter at that spot. "Can you test here?" Hells yeah I can. Let's solve this. Far better than a defective Pioneer stereo I got where Pioneer lead with "Have you connected it to both power and negative ground?" :smh:

[thesameguy]

The little damaged cable that I suspect is responsible for the display issues:

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/02viggen_joyingwhitecable.jpg

and a bench power supply with the stereo sleeping:

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/02viggen_joyingpowertest.jpg

Really stoked about the power supply. So many great things can be done with it!

The seller is asking me to ship back the radio, which is $$$. Not sure how I'm going to proceed yet... I didn't honestly see that coming!

[Random]

Super jealous of the power supply.

[thesameguy]

I have rigged up some crazy shit in the past - computer power supplies and repurposed transformers. I have an EMBARRASSING box of transformers I keep around for whatever comes up. I'm moving on up! And I will feel a lot more comfortable about stuff I do knowing I have a reliable power supply rather than hoping the specs on the label are correct. I really could have used it when testing my speedometer gear for the SPG! I think it was a good use of $80.

[thesameguy]

It's been a long road!

After some further troubleshooting with Joying, we established there was a definite problem with that little while cable, and there was a problem with the voltage regulator that triggers the antenna. I boxed up the head unit and sent it back to China. Added $40 to my bill, which sucked, but at least it wasn't a battle to get a return.

They had it for one day, then shipped a replacement which took two weeks to arrive. I got it on Friday and got back to installing Saturday morning. I'd left all the wiring in the dash, so the only thing really to do was slot it in, and pull the two USB cables to somewhere useful. All of 10 minutes.

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/02viggen_joyingnearlydone.jpg

I spent a bit configuring it to my taste - sound settings, getting rid of the silly animated wallpaper, removing useless icons from the desktop, etc.

I was shocked at how easy programming the steering wheel controls were. Choose a function, hit a button, move on to the next. Interestingly, the volume up and down controls came pre-mapped and worked. The other functions were not mapped. One disappointing thing is that there is no way to change functions with SWCs - I would have liked to use the NXT button to switch between radio and MP3, but I couldn't see how to do that. You can assign "functions" but not apps. Maybe something I can figure out later...

It took me a long time to get Torque working. I had ordered an ELM327 Bluetooth OBDII dongle with the head unit, but after 30 minutes of messing around *could not* get it to pair with the head unit. It worked fine with my phone, and my phone worked fine with the stereo, so I knew it wasn't a hardware defect... something in software. After giving up and resorting to google, I found a post on some other forum suggesting changing the Bluetooth PIN on the stereo to the same 1234 as configured with the dongle... and that worked perfectly. I have no explanation as to why, but it did so whatever. Just weird Chinese Android stereo problems. ;) Set up the car profile with Torque, and all was good to go.

I took the car on a couple drives over the weekend and so far it seems good. Actually, really good. I expected all sorts of half-working things and so far my only complaint is that the MP3 player forgets what it was doing with key cycles.... if it's playing a folder and you turn the car off, when you start back up it'll finish that track then start playing the entire flash drive. I'm gonna need a replacement media player fo sho. Radio works well, cheesy built-in nav app works well, h4x0red Torque app works well. I didn't play media via Bluetooth but I never do anyway... phone calls via BT work great.

Some other notes:

1. While messing around with the OBDII dongle the stereo went into a weird "can't sleep" mode. Turn off the key, and the display goes dark but the buttons stayed lit for a LONG time. Three minutes before I finally pulled the fuse. Normally, it takes 20-30 seconds to sleep. From my tests with the power supply, I know that in "going to sleep mode" it's still drawing about 500ma, so if it failed to sleep that'd be a problem pretty quickly. I'm thinking I blew up the BT stack, but it's something to keep an eye on.

2. Because I had to pull the fuse, I learned what the stereo loses when it loses power. Oddly, that's the backlight setting and the key press tones. No idea why that wouldn't be written to a configuration somewhere that could be read on restart, but it's not. Weird.

It's only been two days and probably 30 miles, but I think I'm happy with it. My next tasks are finding a better media player, loading Google Maps, and making a surround to fit between the dash and the display. That last task is actually a little problematic, since I need to figure out a way to make that trim stay put but also be removable so I can get the stereo back out if I need to. I'm concerned about heat - but it probably won't be an issue for six months so I'll deal with that bit later. ;)

[dodint]

I'm trapped a bit between two functional forms. The all-in-one navigation head unit, and an Android Auto capable unit. I want the OEM convenience of just getting into the car and driving away when I want to. With the Android Auto unit you have to always physically dock your phone if you want to use navigation or apps like a podcast app or Google Play Music. Having to dock in every single time is really lame, but the technical limitations of Bluetooth and Wifi won't allow Android Auto to be a realistic wireless solution for quite a while.

The real hook for me is that I like app-based Navigation because it responds to real time traffic. Not sure the all-in-one solution will do that effectively, the BMW version of it was always a little sketchy to me.

No real question here, I guess, just musing aloud.