Science

[overpowered]

Bitches.

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/starving-female-mantises-eat-males-without-having-sex-first

[LHutton]

I was watching something very interesting last night on the affects of quantum physics on biology. Everything from photo-synthesis, to liver enzymes, smell and even evolution itself. Proton quantum tunneling has been proven to play a major role in liver enzyme catalysis and there's encouraging evidence to suggest it exists in genetic mutation too. Our noses also don't just smell via chemical interaction, they listen to the vibrations of the molecules apparently.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnbJEg9r1o8

[Godson]

Heh... Smart and attractive.

[Alan P]

Interesting. And the physics is cool too!

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNmc6eXLyMk

http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/explosives-webseries-destroys-barbecue-five-founds-thermite/

I'm pretty sure that there's no fire extinguisher that works on thermite because the Fe2O3 provides the oxygen in the reaction. I have read that some labs that work with thermite use liquid nitrogen to cool it enough to put it out. I'm guessing it's going to take a lot of it to put out the fire.

At least that extinguisher worked well on the small amount of grass that caught fire.

Also, might want to get some better eye wear from a welding supply. Thermite burns a bit too bright to look at safely.

[MR2 Fan]

Hyperloop Test Track being built according to Elon Musk

http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/15/7553115/elon-musk-is-building-a-five-mile-hyperloop-test-track

Exciting!

[overpowered]

Anti-vaxxers suck.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/sick-privilege-wealthy-anti-vaxxers-are-driving-outbreaks-of-deadly-19th-century-diseases/

[Godson]

I found a website devoted to spreading the anti VAX mentality. A bunch of doctors, nurses, etc.

They had all of this information, referenced and organized. The issue was most of the data says pulled from were pre1990. So completely useless data. Their reason for this data set was the corporate goonies have manipulated and modified everything published since.

[FaultyMario]

I only have one word for that lot: Variola.

[overpowered]

No, Our Solar System is NOT a “Vortex” (http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/03/04/vortex_motion_viral_video_showing_sun_s_motion_thr ough_galaxy_is_wrong.html)

The first thing I thought when I first saw the video is that the person who made it doesn't know the difference between a vortex and a helix, but there are a lot of other problems.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jHsq36_NTU

[LHutton]

I think it ignores the fact that the gravity of the Milky Way's SMB also acts on the planets, rotating them about its centre too, along with the Sun. So the planet motion relative to the Sun is still rotational.

[Dicknose]

It ignores the angle between the solar plane and galactic plane.
The animations seems to have them at 90 degrees.

It's possible some star systems are at roughly the same angle and so wouldn't trace out a helix.

The "in its wake" is also wrong. The sun does not pull the planets along, anymore than they pull it along.
Ops just read first link and see I got some of the same points.

[G'day Mate]

It's a cool way of visualising our solar system blasting through space though.

[Rare White Ape]

Our solar system surely doesn't travel 90 deg perpendicular to its plane either.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo

[overpowered]

Genetically modified mosquitoes:

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/fda-considering-releasing-genetically-modified-mosquitos-florida

[Godson]

Some of the comments are fucking epic. Both good and bad

[overpowered]

I just want the little suckers dead. They provide nothing useful to the eco-system. All they really do is spread disease. At best they are a food source for other insects and animals but as far as I know, none of those depend upon mosquitoes and will do just fine on other bugs.

[Godson]

That is largely my experience as well. I know when I was canoeing in Minnesota in and around the lakes there, those little bastards were insanely ruthless. They can be pretty bad around here at times to. Up there was just a giant breeding ground for them.

[overpowered]

Scientists discover what’s killing the bees and it’s worse than you thought (http://qz.com/107970/scientists-discover-whats-killing-the-bees-and-its-worse-than-you-thought/)

[overpowered]

There's a new version of Guardasil that protects against 9 strains of HPV. The current version only protects against 4.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1405044

[21Kid]

Hyperloop test track to be built

http://inhabitat.com/five-mile-hyperloop-test-track-to-be-constructed-in-california/

[LHutton]

Gravity game.

http://codepen.io/akm2/full/rHIsa

[Kchrpm]

That's a cool little thing, even works in chrome on my phone.

[LHutton]

That's a cool little thing, even works in chrome on my phone.
Try putting lots of gravity points together.;) Put maybe 6 or 7 together in each corner.

[Kchrpm]

Oh, I have :)

[LHutton]

Kind of makes you glad dark matter exists and '42' is still the answer to everything it seems.

[Rare White Ape]

The physics on that are borked :/

[Dicknose]

Yes it's very odd.

Gut feel, the distance squared rule is missing.
It's more like m^2/d rather than m/d^2
A big mass on one side, single mass on the other. But particles are barely affected by the single mass.
Or maybe they have added extra mass at the centre of gravity to stop particles leaving the system.

It's cute, but just feels wrong.

[Alan P]

Feels like once the particles are affected then they can then be affected by a gravity well further away unless you increase the 'pull' of one of the wells.

[Rare White Ape]

It's not that. The focal point of the orbit is in the wrong place.

An orbit is an ellipse with two geometric focal points. The gravitational centre of the system would be very close to one of those points. An object orbiting the centre of mass should travel around the focal point and back to space, like the graphic below:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Classical_Kepler_orbit_120frames_e0.6.gif

However in the link, the objects pass by the source of gravity and continue out into space before coming back for another pass. There is two apoapses and two periapses on opposite sides of the orbit, when there should be one of each, and the focal point is in the centre.

You can have the focus in the centre in reality, but that's when the two focii of an ellipse are in the same place. This would be a perfectly circular orbit, but it almost never happens.

[Rare White Ape]

Here's some better ones:

http://www.nowykurier.com/toys/gravity/gravity.html

http://www.testtubegames.com/gravity.html

[MR2 Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEx5lmbCKtY

[overpowered]

The science of why you really should listen to science and experts

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/04/06/the-science-of-why-you-really-should-listen-to-experts/

[Dicknose]

And the science says that has nothing to do with science.

[overpowered]

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--scvpqkIe--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/yb9u1jis0jh9lfmiyaxz.jpg

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/newly-discovered-frog-species-looks-a-lot-like-kermit-t-1699076933

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=14&v=B_hCLWtEHL8

[overpowered]

So, another thing from Star Trek turns out to be real, sort of.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3062461/Your-smartphone-screen-BULLETPROOF-Scientists-create-glass-metal.html

[Alan P]

So, another thing from Star Trek turns out to be real, sort of.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3062461/Your-smartphone-screen-BULLETPROOF-Scientists-create-glass-metal.html

http://youtu.be/JSmGjB-G6v8 pfft, not impressed. I don't expect my Smartphone to be hit by a bullet.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brh8Fv7Lw9M

[overpowered]

http://www.grindtv.com/wildlife/donald-trumps-hair-discovered-crawling-in-amazon/#QWPvmkWOyBX22w8T.97


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC6oIkHzJus

[mk]

Distance of far far away galaxy.

There are distances of seconds and meters.

Seconds are red shift compared to big bang and
meters are red shift compared to expansion of space.

All of them go hand in hand.
Think letter-Y, at one point all of them were same and
only with more information later they separated.

Remember also that they are named observations and
meanings of their words may be context dependant.

[Random]

http://youtu.be/JSmGjB-G6v8
pfft, not impressed. I don't expect my Smartphone to be hit by a bullet.

"How quaint."

I really like that movie. :lol:

[overpowered]

Bionic lens.

http://infotel.ca/newsitem/bionic-lens-means-perfect-vision-without-ever-needing-glasses-contacts-bc-doc/it19620

[Godson]

Make me a corneal implant that will fix my re-occurring corneal abrasion go away along with that and I will be happier than two peas in a pod.

[TheBenior]

Fuck, I'd be happy if the FDA would get off their asses and approve the Visian Toric ICL (http://staar.com/products/visian-toric-icl/) for astigmatism that's been available outside of the US for years.

[overpowered]

As someone who had better than 20/20 eyesight until a few years ago I relish the idea of not needing glasses to see stuff close up. I'm still OK with stuff that's far away but anything closer than about 8 feet is an issue with me now if I don't have glasses to help.

[LHutton]

So is Pluto a planet or not?

http://www.space.com/29575-pluto-myths-nasa-new-horizons-mission.html

[Rare White Ape]

Pluto was called a planet, but that was in the era of astronomy when we'd only just figured out whether a fuzzy patch in Andromeda was part of the Milky Way, or a galaxy all on its own.

Yep, up until the 1920s, we couldn't tell if the object formerly known as the Great Andromeda Nebula was part of us or not. It turns out, it's bigger and more massive than the Milky Way.

So in 1930, if you saw a speck moving against a background of stars in a series of observations, of course you'll call it a planet, because it matches the behavior of what we know about planets.

But that's in isolation, and 80 years ago nobody knew much at all about the rest of the region of space that Pluto inhabits. As more data and more discoveries flowed in, Pluto's status as a planet came into question, because there were objects out there doing things differently to planets, and Pluto matched that behavior as well.

And so a whole new category of solar system objects was born, that of the Trans Neptunian Objects, and it became as important to astronomy as the planets themselves.

Pluto is not a planet. Please don't feel sad. The IAU didn't make its decision lightly.

[thesameguy]

I always had my doubts about Pluto. Never really trusted it. It and all of its supporters were trying just a little too hard I thought.

[LHutton]

Apparently it now falls under the classification of 'dwarf planet'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto

[Dicknose]

Welcome to 2006

[Rare White Ape]

el oh el

[Godson]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/c10dd2fa24846e2a50aba5979ce835ab/tumblr_inline_nnr5oeS7461rwi9ma_500.gif

[Rare White Ape]

Argo Navis?

[LHutton]

Welcome to 2006
It's interesting because even in 1994 we were taught that Pluto was a planet - the old '... Nine Pins' rhyme. We were also taught that the centre of the Sun was the hottest part, then it wasn't, now it is again. Amazing how little we really knew and probably how little we still know.

[Godson]

Argo Navis?

Probably. I just looked for something to mock Hutton.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwrAsNdODnE

[Crazed_Insanity]

Now we know for sure Vincent van Gogh suffered from lead poisoning and drank lots of coke!

[Drachen596]

fwiw.. somewhere i saw that posted said it will react that way with any carbonated drink..

[Dicknose]

It's interesting because even in 1994 we were taught that Pluto was a planet - the old '... Nine Pins' rhyme. We were also taught that the centre of the Sun was the hottest part, then it wasn't, now it is again. Amazing how little we really knew and probably how little we still know.

Of cause in 1994 your were taught it was a planet, because it was, until 2006
This wasn't a change in our knowledge about Pluto.
It was a change in our criteria for a planet.
It was brought about by finding more objects that complicated the situation.
But Pluto going from planet to dwarf planet wasn't a change in "facts" or knowledge, it was a human decision and a naming issue.

As for the Sun, what part was thought to be the hottest?
I hope you won't say the surface.
The surface is quite cool. That's why you hear of things (bombs, some experiment with lasers) being "hotter than the surface of the sun".

[overpowered]

It is the hottest part of the Sun and of the Solar System. It has a density of 150 g/cm³ (150 times the density of liquid water) at the center, and a temperature of close to 15,700,000 kelvin, or about 15,700,000 degrees Celsius; by contrast, the surface of the Sun is close to 6,000 kelvin.

"15,700,000 kelvin, or about 15,700,000 degrees Celsius" :p

[Random]

The sentence isn't technically wrong... :D

[Godson]

They must be rounding....

[Random]

The 273-degree difference is definitely lost in the rounding error at that point. :)

[LHutton]

Of cause in 1994 your were taught it was a planet, because it was, until 2006
This wasn't a change in our knowledge about Pluto.
It was a change in our criteria for a planet.
It was brought about by finding more objects that complicated the situation.
But Pluto going from planet to dwarf planet wasn't a change in "facts" or knowledge, it was a human decision and a naming issue.

As for the Sun, what part was thought to be the hottest?
I hope you won't say the surface.
The surface is quite cool. That's why you hear of things (bombs, some experiment with lasers) being "hotter than the surface of the sun".
Genuinely good to know. Thanks.:up:

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv7DfebpL7E

[Rare White Ape]

Pluto is far more interesting than its diminutive dimensions would describe.

Worth a watch. Only a few more weeks before we know aaaaaaallllll (or some) about it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJxwWpaGoJs

[Random]

All sorts of cool stuff popping up around the Solar System; NASA just spotted a 5km tall mountain in the middle of a plain on Ceres.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/06/22/ceres_dawn_images_reveal_a_5_km_tall_mountain.html

[Leon]

Oh, *that* is where I left my 5km tall pyramid.

[overpowered]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/06/24/lexus-hoverboard/29220305/

[Freude am Fahren]

On an aisde, I cannot stand the way USA Today and some others do their website with those like pop-up articles. If you click anywhere on them, they go to the next one.

[overpowered]

"When wireless is perfectly applied the whole earth will be converted into a huge brain, which in fact it is, all things being particles of a real and rhythmic whole. We shall be able to communicate with one another instantly, irrespective of distance. Not only this, but through television and telephony we shall see and hear one another as perfectly as though we were face to face, despite intervening distances of thousands of miles; and the instruments through which we shall be able to do his will be amazingly simple compared with our present telephone. A man will be able to carry one in his vest pocket." -Nikola Tesla, 1926

[Freude am Fahren]

...through television and telephony we shall see and hear one another as perfectly as though we were face to face, despite intervening distances of thousands of miles...

Just thinking about how even just a couple decades ago, this seemed so awesome, and now it's just the norm, nevermind 1926. :up:

[overpowered]

He even predicted that we could carry it in a vest pocket.

[Random]

If only we still wore vests...

(My hi-viz construction vest doesn't count. :p)

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4112WArXOc

[overpowered]

Bees

http://csglobe.com/harvard-study-proves-why-the-bees-are-all-disappearing/

[LHutton]

Going to get cold in 2030:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/van-winkles/winter-is-coming-scientis_b_7787664.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

[overpowered]

Or not:

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/mini-ice-age-not-reason-ignore-global-warming

[Dicknose]

The "mini ice age coming" is a great headline but unlikely to be true.

What it might actually mean is that this could be a good time for space travel!

[Rare White Ape]

The "mini ice age coming" is a great headline but unlikely to be true.

Filthy global cooling denier.

[Dicknose]

Unfortunately the big conspiracy hasn't paid me off

[overpowered]

Are we headed for a new ice age?

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/06/17/are-we-headed-for-a-new-ice-age/

[LHutton]

Thank God* for that. I hate cold weather.


*Or Buddha, Allah, Xenu etc.

[Rare White Ape]

Are we headed for a new ice age?

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/06/17/are-we-headed-for-a-new-ice-age/

Dude that's from 2011.

[LHutton]

So laser fusion power.....

http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=09068562&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fn ph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DP ALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25 252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%252 6s1%3D9,068,562.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F9,068,562%2526RS %3DPN%2F9,068,562&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

[21Kid]

*Pew Pew*

[LHutton]

They stole that patent real good.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OSrvzNW9FE

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U8f8GQ1LYc

[Freude am Fahren]

I got a Gatorade at a football game once that had a jelly like substance in it. Totally grossed me out.

[overpowered]

Turning your cell phone into a tricorder:

http://inhabitat.com/worlds-first-pocket-molecular-sensor-measures-the-chemical-makeup-of-everything/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejl6gGgR9_g

[Rare White Ape]

Exoplanet news:

http://fakescience.org/kepler-452b-is-real-and-it-may-bring-us-an-entirely-new-vision-for-frasier/

[MR2 Fan]

http://www.startalkradio.net/show/exploring-science-and-religion-with-richard-dawkins/

[LHutton]

http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/gen-3-high-energy-laser-completes-beam-quality-evaluation-20042920

HEL System Designed for Land, Sea, and Airborne Platforms

SAN DIEGO – General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc. (GA-ASI), a leading manufacturer of Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA) systems, radars, and electro-optic and related mission systems solutions, today announced that an independent measurement team contracted by the U.S. Government has completed beam quality and power measurements of GA-ASI's Gen 3 High Energy Laser System (HEL) using the Joint Technology Office (JTO) Government Diagnostic System (GDS).

"These measurements confirm the exceptional beam quality of the Gen 3 HEL, the next-generation leader in electrically-pumped lasers," said Claudio Pereida, executive vice president, Mission Systems, GA-ASI.

The new laser represents the third generation of technology originally developed under the High Energy Liquid Laser Area Defense System (HELLADS, Gen 1) program. The Gen 3 Laser employs a number of upgrades resulting in improved beam quality, increased electrical to optical efficiency, and reduced size and weight. The recently certified Gen 3 laser assembly is very compact at only 1.3 x 0.4 x 0.5 meters. The system is powered by a compact Lithium-ion battery supply designed to demonstrate a deployable architecture for tactical platforms.

The Gen 3 HEL tested is a unit cell for the Tactical Laser Weapon Module (TLWM) currently under development. Featuring a flexible, deployable architecture, the TLWM is designed for use on land, sea, and airborne platforms and will be available in four versions at the 50, 75, 150, and 300 kilowatt laser output levels.

The GDS was employed by an independent measurement team to evaluate the beam quality of the Gen 3 system over a range of operating power and run time. According to JTO's Jack Slater, "The system produced the best beam quality from a high energy laser that we have yet measured with the GDS. We were impressed to see that the beam quality remained constant with increasing output power and run-time."

With run time limited only by the magazine depth of the battery system, beam quality was constant throughout the entire run at greater than 30 seconds. These measurements confirm that the exceptional beam quality of this new generation of electrically-pumped lasers is maintained above the 50 kilowatt level.

Following this evaluation, the independent team will use the GDS again to conduct beam quality measurements of the GA-ASI HELLADS Demonstrator Laser Weapon System (DLWS). The HELLADS DLWS includes a 150 kilowatt class laser with integrated power and thermal management.

About GA-ASI
General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc., an affiliate of General Atomics, delivers situational awareness by providing remotely piloted aircraft systems, radar, and electro-optic and related mission systems solutions for military and commercial applications worldwide. The company's Aircraft Systems business unit is a leading designer and manufacturer of proven, reliable RPA systems, including Predator® A, Predator B/MQ-9 Reaper®, Gray Eagle®, the new Predator C Avenger®, and Predator XP. It also manufactures a variety of state-of-the-art digital Ground Control Stations (GCS), including the next-generation Advanced Cockpit GCS, and provides pilot training and support services for RPA field operations. The Mission Systems business unit designs, manufactures, and integrates the Lynx® Multi-mode Radar and sophisticated Claw® sensor control and image analysis software into both manned and remotely piloted aircraft. It also focuses on providing integrated sensor payloads and software for Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) aircraft platforms and develops high energy lasers, electro-optic sensors, and meta-material antennas. For more information, please visit www.ga-asi.com ('http://www.ga-asi.com/').


http://spectrum.ieee.org/img/ga_laser1-1429113981415.jpg

[MR2 Fan]

in other words, really BIG * Pew * Pew * Pew *

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx0kvxqgC1c

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow! You make a bubbly mini-planet!

[LHutton]

http://www.gizmag.com/material-new-record-melting-point/38637/


Material with new record melting point predicted

[Rare White Ape]

Wow! You make a bubbly mini-planet!

Except held together by surface tension, not gravity.

Some models theorise that when early earth was a jumble of dust, it was held together by static electricity.

It's when the mass increases that gravitational force become stronger than electromagnetism and starts to pull distant things closer.

[LHutton]

The European aerospace giant Airbus has filed patents for a new supersonic jet that bears a strong resemblance to Concorde.

Dubbed the 'son of Concorde', it would be capable of reaching four times the speed of sound - or 2,500 mph.


That means a flight from London to New York would take just one hour - roughly the same as a train journey from London to Brighton in Sussex.


Airbus says the new aircraft would primarily be for "business travel and VIP passengers, who require transcontinental return journeys within one day”.


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2003/Oct/Week4/25584/default/v2/1172022-589x442.jpg
The original Concorde takes off from Heathrow



It also foresees the military using it for strategic reconnaissance and "ultra-rapid transport of high added-value goods or elite commandos".
Documents lodged with the US Patent Office (http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=09079661&IDKey=837D9DF4AD3E&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fn ph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DP ALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25 252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%252 6s1%3D9%2C079%2C661.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F9%2C079%2C66 1%2526RS%3DPN%2F9%2C079%2C661) describe Concorde mark 2 as an "ultra-rapid air vehicle".


It would take off almost vertically, like a Space Shuttle, and cruise at more than 100,000ft, carrying 20 passengers for distances of up to 5,500 miles.
The aircraft would re-enter normal air space as it approached its destination before landing.


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2003/Oct/Week3/25580/default/v0/1171552-206x155.jpg


Wreckage of the Concorde that crashed in Paris in 2000

The original Concorde was built by Airbus' forerunner Aerospatiale and the British Aircraft Corporation.


It flew at 1,350mph - more than twice the speed of sound - at an altitude of 60,000ft and carried up to 120 passengers.
The first flight took place in 1976 and it was withdrawn from service in 2003 after a crash in Paris three years earlier.


One of the problems with the original Concorde was the amount of noise it made when breaking the sound barrier.
This led to it being banned from flying over land by many countries and restricted its operations.


But Airbus says the new craft's aerodynamics will limit sonic boom and make it more acceptable.
-------



http://news.sky.com/story/1530374/airbus-files-patents-for-son-of-concorde

[Crazed_Insanity]

I doubt they'll actually make it happen...

Hypersonic plane would be awesome, but I doubt current economic conditions would allow it to happen.

[MR2 Fan]

I doubt they'll actually make it happen...

Hypersonic plane would be awesome, but I doubt current economic conditions would allow it to happen.

but super-rich people are still super-rich

[Dicknose]

Patents are a long way from "plans to build"

[overpowered]

http://www.wired.com/2015/08/lexus-hoverboard/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwSwZ2Y0Ops


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_BYvUlDviM

[21Kid]

but super-rich people are more super-rich than everfix'd

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eulZ21oJbu0

[overpowered]

https://www.google.com/get/sunroof#p=0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BXf_h8tEes

[Random]

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/08/how-and-why-spacex-will-colonize-mars.html/

[Godson]

that's going to take a while to read...

[Random]

Yes, but it's interesting. :)

[Freude am Fahren]

Bookmarking...

[Rare White Ape]

It's very interesting. It seems like it's written by a guy who has a passing interest in space exploration but knows only a little bit about it, so his prose betrays his excitement for finding out things that I know a fair bit about, so it's fun to read his take on it.

[overpowered]

Unless You Have Celiac Disease, Gluten Sensitivity is Probably Just in Your Head

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/body/unless-you-have-celiac-disease-gluten-sensitivity-is-probably-just-in-your-head/

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1yhVEDkNw

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPszR0-vTqc

[Godson]

1in = 1.3 years off life. Interesting.

If that were accurate, my great grandma would have lived well over 100 years.

[overpowered]

And my 6' tall grandfather would not have made it to 99.

[Freude am Fahren]

Or she did enough to outweigh her height advantage, and he did extra to help himself and could have like to 100 if you were 5'11 :)
But obviously it's mostly a BS guess, they don't even differentiate by sex.

[overpowered]

At one of the previous incarnations of this board, someone asked if you could eliminate any species of animal, what would it be. I said mosquitoes and several people agreed with me. Mosquitoes have no positive value to the ecosystem.

Some might say wasps but it turns out, they might actually have a use after all:

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/brazilian-wasp-venom-kills-cancer-cells-not-healthy-cells

[Rare White Ape]

Mosquitoes are food for larger animals, so... no.

Feral cats or similar pests would be the pick of anything to get rid of.

[Freude am Fahren]

HUMANS :devil:

[overpowered]

Mosquitoes are food for larger animals, so... no..Anything that feeds on mosquitoes feeds on plenty of other bugs too. Get rid of mosquitoes and they'll do just fine.

[MR2 Fan]

without mosquitoes we couldn't bring dinosaurs back to life....right?

[overpowered]

with mosquitoes we couldn't bring dinosaurs back to life

[Godson]

I'd get rid of feral pigs.



I've tried to do that with hunting trips, but people view it negatively to shot the damned things.

[Dicknose]

Life is not meant to be helpful.
Plenty of critters fill a niche, because the opportunity exists and they take advantage of it.
Doesn't mean it needs to have a purpose or be useful, except to their own gene pool.

In complex life we have ended up with plenty of animals being middle ground, part of a food chain, so others rely on them to survive.
But you could argue that almost any apex predator doesn't serve any useful function.
Australia doesn't have much in the way of apex predators. It's not like there is anything running around hunting kangaroos.
They get old die and the scavengers come in.
It's a niche that was once filled by some large marsupial carnivores, but they died out. The last mid size one was the Tassie tiger, but it died out when Europeans came and shot them. Still got Tassie Devils, but they are small (small cat size)

So what purpose does lions or tigers do?
They are good at a job, but it wouldn't destroy everything if they didn't exit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I guess a more interesting discussion would be which species would rule earth if humanity is gone all of a sudden.

Would things like cockroaches or rats take over or can other intelligent species take over?

[Random]

I'd get rid of feral pigs.

$77 non-resident wild** pig tag* in CA...c'mon out!

*plus $164 for a CA non-resident hunting license.

** all the wild pigs in CA are from a initial population released by a hunter in the 20s, so they are technically all "feral."

Side note: $3.24 for a bobcat tag. :erm: Are bobcats really that much of a problem?! WTF?

[overpowered]

If I'm reading this site correctly:

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Licensing/Hunting#994192-items--fees

For certain game, mostly larger game, you have to pay for a tag for each one you kill. Most of those have limits on the number of tags you can buy per year. Pigs appear to be the only one you need a tag for which does not have a limit, but their tags are a little pricey.

The bobcat tag is cheap, but you can only get 5 tags a year.

You can get two for deer.

It looks like all of the others allow only one tag per year.

I'm surprised that it's allowable to hunt bear in California.

[Godson]

CA wouldn't let me bring the magazines I have for my guns...


MO doesn't let us 'hunt' feral pigs. They are however 'shoot on sight.'

[Rare White Ape]

So what purpose does lions or tigers do?
They are good at a job, but it wouldn't destroy everything if they didn't exit.

At a guess, based on my assumption that lions hunt deer etc (or equivalent) in Africa, if they didn't exist, the population for their prey would go up slightly. And with a higher population, their food source would be pressured more, and whatever else that eats that same food source, or takes up residence in said food source, will compete more for the same resource, so it would have a flow-on effect to other species' populations.

Hunting animals tend to be able to eat the weakest animal in a pack as well, so without that factor of a hunter eliminating the weakest member of a group from the gene pool, then those genes will be allowed more of a chance to survive and be passed on, thus weakening the population as a whole, or at least slowing down the process of evolution that keeps the population fit.

No animal ever lives in isolation. If you change one aspect of their environment, it can subtly or not-so-subtly change the whole ecosystem.

[overpowered]

Apex predators actually tend to be important to their eco-systems.

http://blog.ted.com/video-how-wolves-can-alter-the-course-of-rivers/

[Dicknose]

Not saying they don't affect it.
But the ecosystem can survive without them. Some balances change, but it doesn't suddenly collapse.

[Dicknose]

I guess a more interesting discussion would be which species would rule earth if humanity is gone all of a sudden.

Would things like cockroaches or rats take over or can other intelligent species take over?

No animal would dominate.
We are the only species to dominate, be widespread and affect (destroy) so much.

If we went, nothing would fill the gap.
The niche for "smart enough to be able to have the power to fuck everything up, dumb enough to do actually do it" has only ever been filled once.
Maybe in another million years some other intelligent species will happen.

Mammals would continue to dominate. Although sheep and cattle would fall off dramatically. We put a lot of effort into their populations (then eat them). They are so domesticated they would struggle without us. Merino sheep would be in a bad way without humans to sheer them.

[Kchrpm]

Merino sheep would be in a bad way without humans to sheer them.
Indeed: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/03/meet-chris-the-insanely-overgrown-sheep-that-nearly-died-for-the-sake-of-our-fashion/

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_908w/2010-2019/Wires/Images/2015-09-03/AP/Australia_Overgrown_Sheep-019df.jpg&w=1484

[mk]

I wouldn't cry much after many parasites.

I think mites are not nice at all.

[overpowered]

Merino sheep would be in a bad way without humans to sheer them.Well yeah, due to selective breeding over centuries (millennia?) they produce a lot more wool than is reasonable.

Non domesticated cows never had udders like modern milk cows, which have to be milked regularly or they experience a lot of pain.

[overpowered]

Side note: $3.24 for a bobcat tag. :erm: Are bobcats really that much of a problem?! WTF?

From wiki:


The bobcat hunts animals of different sizes, and will adjust its hunting techniques accordingly. With small animals, such as rodents (including squirrels), birds, fish, including small sharks,[37] and insects, it will hunt in areas known to be abundant in prey, and will lie, crouch, or stand, and wait for victims to wander close. It will then pounce, grabbing its prey with its sharp, retractable claws. For slightly larger animals, such as geese, rabbits and hares, it will stalk from cover and wait until they come within 20 to 35 ft (6.1 to 10.7 m) before rushing in to attack. Less commonly, it will feed on larger animals, such as young ungulates and other carnivores such as fishers (primarily female), foxes, minks, skunks, small dogs and domesticated cats.[29][38][39] Bobcats are considered the major predatory threat to the endangered whooping crane.[40] Bobcats are also occasional hunters of livestock and poultry. While larger species, such as cattle and horses, are not known to be attacked, bobcats do present a threat to smaller ruminants, such as sheep and goats. According to the National Agricultural Statistics Service, bobcats killed 11,100 sheep in 2004, comprising 4.9% of all sheep predator deaths.[41] However, some amount of bobcat predation may be misidentified, as bobcats have been known to scavenge on the remains of livestock kills by other animals.[42]

It has been known to kill deer, especially in winter when smaller prey is scarce, or when deer populations become more abundant. One study in the Everglades showed a large majority of kills (33 of 39) were fawns, but prey up to eight times the bobcat's weight could be successfully taken.[43] It stalks the deer, often when the deer is lying down, then rushes in and grabs it by the neck before biting the throat, base of the skull, or chest. On the rare occasions a bobcat kills a deer, it eats its fill and then buries the carcass under snow or leaves, often returning to it several times to feed.[29]

So maybe they can be a problem. Certainly you wouldn't want them around if you have small dogs or cats in your yard. Poultry farmers probably have some issues as well.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No animal would dominate.
We are the only species to dominate, be widespread and affect (destroy) so much.

If we went, nothing would fill the gap.
The niche for "smart enough to be able to have the power to fuck everything up, dumb enough to do actually do it" has only ever been filled once.
Maybe in another million years some other intelligent species will happen.

Mammals would continue to dominate. Although sheep and cattle would fall off dramatically. We put a lot of effort into their populations (then eat them). They are so domesticated they would struggle without us. Merino sheep would be in a bad way without humans to sheer them.

You wouldn't consider dinosaurs dominating the earth once?

Maybe they did managed to invent nuclear bombs and destroyed themselves! :D

You don't think apes would fill the gap on land and perhaps dolphins/killer whales would dominate the sea just as the dinos once did?

[Rare White Ape]

That dinosaurs dominated the world is a fallacy bred into you by Hollywood and popular culture.

[overpowered]

Insurer Says Clients on Daily Pill Have Stayed H.I.V.-Free

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/03/health/insurer-says-clients-on-daily-pill-have-stayed-hiv-free.html

Not a vaccine. Something else, and you have to take a pill every day for it to be effective. From what I understand, the pills are anti-HIV drugs used to treat HIV patients. The non-infected take it and have it in their system when exposed to HIV and the drug kills the HIV before it can establish an infection.

[Dicknose]

I should have said "no species"
Dinosaurs were a large group of animals.
Sure they were the predominate large animals.
But like now, they are probably numerically and even total mass, dominated by insects.

I can't see another ape reaching our level of intelligence in a hurry. We sort of dominated that niche. It's possible other homids could have, but we ended up the only species with high technology.
Whales and dolphins lack the limbs to make good use of technology, I couldn't see them evolving in that direction.

[Rare White Ape]

Octopii are crazily smart, but they also lack the means to do anything about it.

I think the ability to communicate and share knowledge is far more important than opposeable thumbs.

Writing stuff down, and drawing pictures especially, otherwise we'd be continually re-discovering and re-inventing things that are essential to building a civilisation.

[LHutton]

Wait until they evolve and develop those abilities. We'll be fighting octopi and dolphins everywhere I tell you and I really wouldn't want to be Japanese when that happens.

[LHutton]

http://defense-update.com/20150830_metamaterial_cloak.html#.VesVOhHBzRY


Electrical engineers at the University of California in San Diego have created a new design for a cloaking device, using an ultra-thin Teflon substrate, studded with cylinders of ceramic, that can ‘bend’ light weaves around objects coated with it, creating a cloak. The Teflon has a low refractive index, while the ceramic’s refractive index is higher, a combination which allows light to be dispersed through the sheet without any absorption.

[Godson]

Wait until they evolve and develop those abilities. We'll be fighting octopi and dolphins everywhere I tell you and I really wouldn't want to be Japanese when that happens.

What does being Japanese have to do with any of this?

[Kchrpm]

I'm guessing because octopus is a common dish in Japan, and some Japanese fishing(?) companies have a bad habit of killing dolphins as they're trying to catch other things. What was the documentary, Black...something?

[thesameguy]

Wait until they evolve and develop those abilities. We'll be fighting octopi and dolphins everywhere I tell you and I really wouldn't want to be Japanese when that happens.

They have caught those scary fuckers crawling up on land to gather things to they use tools back at the homestead, and I am not talking about the recent coconut video. They're getting there.

[Cam]

What was the documentary, Black...something?
I believe you're thinking of The Cove (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1313104/).

[Kchrpm]

You're right. Blackfish is about Sea World and is what I was thinking of.

[Rare White Ape]

It's sad to see that tentacle porn jokes fly right over your heads these days :(

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EABQ5psUz70

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBCmt_pJTRA

[LHutton]

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/permanent-earbuds-and-night-vision-c1254724482334774.html


Permanent Earbuds and Night-Vision Eyes: The Weird World of Biohacking

[overpowered]

https://vimeo.com/110807219

[LHutton]

Before the age of 10, the answer to that would just jump straight into my head with zero scribbling or even conscious thought. I pity the fools who need to write that down.

[Godson]

Looking down on others is such a sad way to live ones life.

[Dicknose]

Quite a bit of arithmetic is "just memorising" - your addition and times tables are learnt without needing any understanding. (and has been shown these are actually a word skill, not a number skill)

But these are all simple arithmetic. They are not fun or interesting, not in the way that people that likes maths find interesting.
You are learning to be a calculator, not a mathematician.

Learning long division - hmm, does it really matter anymore?

Then again I think its useful (esp for programmers) to do some non-base 10 arithmetic and know a few tricks (better still - which tricks move between bases)
Does 0xf divide 0x1473 without remainder?
Thats the hex equiv of asking something like, does 9 divide into 1692?

[mk]

Different levels of simplifications is a necessity.

[MR2 Fan]

ugh...math.

I always had problems with math. One time in high school Algebra, I couldn't figure out how they were doing some complicated thing, and I figured out a way that made more sense to me, and it worked...but I was told it isn't recommended because they aren't teaching it that way.

I've always believed that some people are pre-wired to be good at math, and some people definitely are NOT. Apparently I'm only good at some kinds of math that don't follow the same thought processes as are being taught....very frustrating.

[mk]

Up to college level if you don't understand you're not paying attention.

It's just one foreign language.

[JoshInKC]

ugh...math.

I always had problems with math. One time in high school Algebra, I couldn't figure out how they were doing some complicated thing, and I figured out a way that made more sense to me, and it worked...but I was told it isn't recommended because they aren't teaching it that way.

I've always believed that some people are pre-wired to be good at math, and some people definitely are NOT. Apparently I'm only good at some kinds of math that don't follow the same thought processes as are being taught....very frustrating.
This. I absolutely cannot "Think algebraically," unless I've got some sort of context (and actual numbers rather than letters). Drove me (and not a few teachers) crazy in my math classes. I could nearly always get to the correct answer, but usually the wrong way. Someone told me a while back that this was a mild form of Dyscalclia(?), where it's simply impossible to think about numbers and operations in non-concrete terms, so you have to do weird roundabout mental processes to make any headway at all. Then they told me that the university was developing a class specifically to address this issue to substitute for the basic math requirement. As far as I know, it still hasn't happened due to administrative hang-ups.

It angers the hell out of me that otherwise great students get screwed because of one class that has little to no bearing on their fields/degrees.

[Godson]

I almost didn't make it into nursing school because of college algebra.

[Dicknose]

So did you do calculus in high school?
Differentiation, integration?
Diff/int on trig functions such as sin and cos
Limits, continuous functions

What about algebraic proofs, say proof by induction?
Complex numbers?

That was all high school maths for me.

[Rare White Ape]

Maths can't be changed, either. It's a system for describing the universe in a simar way to how a computer program tells a computer how to function.

I'm no good at maths either, but I do appreciate how it has a rigid infallibility that doesn't work if you attempt to use "weird roundabout processes" to do the same thing that an equation does in the simplest terms.

I've thought a bit in the past about re-doing my high school maths (which I failed miserably), to give myself a better grounding for whatever I might end up doing in the future. I'd be better at it now than I was as a snotty teenager.

[Godson]

So did you do calculus in high school?
Differentiation, integration?
Diff/int on trig functions such as sin and cos
Limits, continuous functions

What about algebraic proofs, say proof by induction?
Complex numbers?

That was all high school maths for me.

I graduated hs with a 2.2GPA. I did the easiest classes because I didn't care. I had to claw my way through college algebra to be allowed into school. Stats on the other hand was a cake walk.

[Dicknose]

Maths can't be changed, either. It's a system for describing the universe in a simar way to how a computer program tells a computer how to function.

The "this is a mathematical truth" is not the same as "this is a method to calculate and answer"
There can be different ways to do arithmetic. Some of the ways some of the more complex actions are described can make it easier to understand vs quicker to do.
The video does show how 2 digit multiplication can be explained well, but the method is slightly longer (more steps)

There are also lots of "cheats" such as multiplying by 9s (or 99, 999) where you can do this quicker than using the normal methods.
There are tricks to squaring numbers, especially 2 digit numbers with some properties (eg last digit is 5)

Ive also seen a neat trick where you race someone to calculate a 2 digit number - where you take the cube and work out the cube root, the other person is given the square and gets the square root.
eg race to find x where x^2=1849 and x^3=79507
your first thought is that solving the square root of a 4 digit number has to be easier!
But its not - the cube has the nice property that the last digit of the number immediately gives you the last digit of the answer
in this case 79507 - the 7 means the cube root ends in 3 (3^3=27) no other single digit cubed ends in 7
the square root 1849 doesnt give you this quick cheat. 9 could be 3^2 or it could be 7^2 (49)

So yes - mathematics may be an indisputable set of facts. But there can be many methods/algorithms you can use to get answers.
Sometimes it helps to know a quicker method, even if it only works in a limited number of cases. As long as you use it in the correct situations.

[LHutton]

Quite a bit of arithmetic is "just memorising" - your addition and times tables are learnt without needing any understanding. (and has been shown these are actually a word skill, not a number skill)

But these are all simple arithmetic. They are not fun or interesting, not in the way that people that likes maths find interesting.
You are learning to be a calculator, not a mathematician.

Learning long division - hmm, does it really matter anymore?

Then again I think its useful (esp for programmers) to do some non-base 10 arithmetic and know a few tricks (better still - which tricks move between bases)
Does 0xf divide 0x1473 without remainder?
Thats the hex equiv of asking something like, does 9 divide into 1692?
Write a program in assembly code using 8-bit mnemonics to divide a 32-bit number by a 24-bit number.

Isn't OxF 16 and 0x1473 5235 going to base 10 from hex?

[LHutton]

So did you do calculus in high school?
Differentiation, integration?
Diff/int on trig functions such as sin and cos
Limits, continuous functions

What about algebraic proofs, say proof by induction?
Complex numbers?

That was all high school maths for me.
Interesting. What age does high school go up to in Australia. It's just that in the UK, some of that wasn't taught until age 16-18 at A-level, which is post high school here.


I graduated hs with a 2.2GPA. I did the easiest classes because I didn't care. I had to claw my way through college algebra to be allowed into school. Stats on the other hand was a cake walk.
What stats did you do because some work with distributions does actually involve calculus and algebra?

[LHutton]

The "this is a mathematical truth" is not the same as "this is a method to calculate and answer"
There can be different ways to do arithmetic. Some of the ways some of the more complex actions are described can make it easier to understand vs quicker to do.
The video does show how 2 digit multiplication can be explained well, but the method is slightly longer (more steps)

There are also lots of "cheats" such as multiplying by 9s (or 99, 999) where you can do this quicker than using the normal methods.
There are tricks to squaring numbers, especially 2 digit numbers with some properties (eg last digit is 5)

Ive also seen a neat trick where you race someone to calculate a 2 digit number - where you take the cube and work out the cube root, the other person is given the square and gets the square root.
eg race to find x where x^2=1849 and x^3=79507
your first thought is that solving the square root of a 4 digit number has to be easier!
But its not - the cube has the nice property that the last digit of the number immediately gives you the last digit of the answer
in this case 79507 - the 7 means the cube root ends in 3 (3^3=27) no other single digit cubed ends in 7
the square root 1849 doesnt give you this quick cheat. 9 could be 3^2 or it could be 7^2 (49)
Yes, but you know it ain't a 7 because 40^2 = 1600 (100 x 4^2) and 50^2 = 2500 (5^2 x 100), therefore the answer is 43, because 1849 is much nearer to 1600. And a quick check of adding (40x3) + (3x43) to 1600 verifies it. You can also very quickly see that 40x7 = 280 on its own, which is >249, immediately ruling it out.

[JSGeneral]

What? No Spherical Geometry?

:p

[Kchrpm]

Nerds.

[Dicknose]

Interesting. What age does high school go up to in Australia. It's just that in the UK, some of that wasn't taught until age 16-18 at A-level, which is post high school here.


high school is 6 years, but you can leave after 4.
That was all covered in the last 2 years, our equivalent of A levels.

[Dicknose]

Yes, but you know it ain't a 7 because 40^2 = 1600 (100 x 4^2) and 50^2 = 2500 (5^2 x 100), therefore the answer is 43, because 1849 is much nearer to 1600. And a quick check of adding (40x3) + (3x43) to 1600 verifies it. You can also very quickly see that 40x7 = 280 on its own, which is >249, immediately ruling it out.

But the effort to work out it was 3 rather than 7 is still a lot more than for a cube, where it is just a simple memorisation and didn't require any calculation (didn't have to add or multiply any numbers)
What about sqrt 5776?

Sure you can work it out, but it is harder than doing the equivalent cube root.

[Dicknose]

What? No Spherical Geometry?

:p
University! And then did lots of different geometries.
Only did Euclidean geometry at school.

[mk]

I absolutely cannot "Think algebraically,"
How you started, adding fruits and vegetables?

[LHutton]

But the effort to work out it was 3 rather than 7 is still a lot more than for a cube, where it is just a simple memorisation and didn't require any calculation (didn't have to add or multiply any numbers)
What about sqrt 5776?

Sure you can work it out, but it is harder than doing the equivalent cube root.
Meh, it's about the same. To home in on the answer you need to do/know 40^2 and 50^2 or 40^3 and 50^3 in either case. The processing for cubes in just marginally harder than the squares (split seconds here;)) but then you do get straight to the answer afterwards but then, using logic to rule out the 7 is pretty easy also but heck 2(40x3)+3^2 isn't hard either.

76. 70^2 + 2(6x70) + 6^2 OR just knowing it's either a 4 or a 6 and spotting that it's past half-way between 4900 and 6400.

[LHutton]

What? No Spherical Geometry?

:p
Avionics module at university.


high school is 6 years, but you can leave after 4.
That was all covered in the last 2 years, our equivalent of A levels.
Okay, so it's probably about the same then. Here high school is 5 years (11-16) and then 2 years at tertiary college. They used to do 11-18 schools, not sure if they still do, I think increasing student numbers were the main issue.

[Dicknose]

Meh, it's about the same. To home in on the answer you need to do/know 40^2 and 50^2 or 40^3 and 50^3 in either case. The processing for cubes in just marginally harder than the squares (split seconds here;)) but then you do get straight to the answer afterwards but then, using logic to rule out the 7 is pretty easy also but heck 2(40x3)+3^2 isn't hard either.

76. 70^2 + 2(6x70) + 6^2 OR just knowing it's either a 4 or a 6 and spotting that it's past half-way between 4900 and 6400.

Sure you are getting the answer, but you are doing a lot of comparisons.
And definitely don't want to be doing any multiplication or adding.
The "it's a 4 or 6 and so which is closer" is much harder than "last digit 6 it's a 6"

If it's taking more than 2 seconds, then it's slower than doing cube roots.

[LHutton]

Sure you are getting the answer, but you are doing a lot of comparisons.
And definitely don't want to be doing any multiplication or adding.
The "it's a 4 or 6 and so which is closer" is much harder than "last digit 6 it's a 6"

If it's taking more than 2 seconds, then it's slower than doing cube roots.
Eh, maybe, but you gave me a square. 2 seconds, no, nothing lasts that long.

[sandydandy]

Ok I've never participated in this thread. Partly because I'm a little intimidated because I have no advanced understanding of scientific principles, nor am I a mathematician. The only experience I have with maths is in the field of money, as I have an accounting background.

One thing that's plagued me, which I have a very difficult time understanding, is the concept of time dilation. I recently watched the movie Interstellar, (spoilers ahead, read at your own risk), and at one point the crew travels through a black hole and lands on a planet where time is greatly distorted. Where one hour is translated into seven years for the person in the 'mother ship', and the people back on Earth.

So part of the crew goes down to the planet and overstays their welcome, and ends up spending 23 years on the planet, (time according to the guy left behind), and that just boggles my mind.

How does that work?

I have the most rudimentary understanding of time dilation, (crew goes up in a spaceship and is nanoseconds younger than the people on Earth by the time they reach orbit, I sort of get that). But what I saw in the movie just doesn't compute in my mind. Isn't there such a thing as universal real time?

How does space-time get distorted to such a degree? I realize it's just a movie, but it must be based on hard science. I just don't get it, the connection isn't being made in my mind. It's hard for me to wrap my head around it.

[overpowered]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

[Rare White Ape]

sandydandy get on YouTube and look up a channel called PBS Spacetime. Recently they did a series on… actual space-time, so it's near the top of the list and won't be hard to find.

I don't fucking get it either (not 100% or even 50% but I'm working on it!) but the gist of it is that events in time and events in space are all dependent on an individual observer's coordinates in both space and time relative to an event, as well as an observer's trajectory through space and time relative to other events.

It's as far removed from our perception of reality as quantum mechanics is, so don't feel bad that you don't get it. And if the videos I directed you to confuse you even more… well keep looking for quality info to fill in the gaps in your knowledge. The truth is out there!

[LHutton]

Time is an artefact of the universe, created with the universe and governed by the universe. Near large centres of gravity and at high speeds, near that of light, it slows down.

[mk]

It's hard for me to wrap my head around it.
Don't worry, it's the very same for everybody.
Others take what is told as granted and just adjust their calculations accordingly, not a bad choice.

"How" is a wrong question, science is not for "How."
For lower levels the how is explained by higher levels, yet it's still just a sort of an assumption.

For universal real time the answer could be that light has a real time and it's value is zero.

Reality seems to be a triangle of space, time and speed.
The problem is that in our minds speed is not a single value but a combination of two, space and time.

How important is a timeline in a memory of immortal?

[LHutton]

The important first step for me was to realise that time was created with the universe. People often ask, what was before the universe, but the use of the term 'before' is invalid, as it implies reference to a timeline that didn't exist until the universe. Once you realise that time was created as a construct of the universe, it's much easier to grasp how it can be intertwined with space. Perhaps the real mind-bender is whether the universe has existed for billions of years, or whether those billions of years blew into existence at once. It's really difficult to accept that time hasn't existed forever and in many ways is an illusion of the universe.

[MR2 Fan]

http://media.giphy.com/media/k7nUblXRPCsc8/giphy.gif

[Rare White Ape]

The important first step for me was to realise that time was created with the universe. People often ask, what was before the universe, but the use of the term 'before' is invalid, as it implies reference to a timeline that didn't exist until the universe. Once you realise that time was created as a construct of the universe, it's much easier to grasp how it can be intertwined with space. Perhaps the real mind-bender is whether the universe has existed for billions of years, or whether those billions of years blew into existence at once. It's really difficult to accept that time hasn't existed forever and in many ways is an illusion of the universe.

There was indeed time before the universe and we're just now learning about how conditions in the immediate time before the big bang influenced the large-scale structure of the universe, as well as what caused the big bang to happen in the first place.

[LHutton]

There was indeed time before the universe and we're just now learning about how conditions in the immediate time before the big bang influenced the large-scale structure of the universe, as well as what caused the big bang to happen in the first place.
Before the Big Bang, or before the universe? I have read about this but I was counting that as part of the universe's existence.

http://news.sciencemag.org/physics/2014/04/scientists-find-imprint-universe-existed-big-bang

Which direction was time actually flowing in at such a point?

Also:

http://www.livescience.com/49958-theory-no-big-bang.html
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1411.0753.pdf
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0370269314009381

[mk]

The problem is in meanings of those special words.



|
| /
| /
|--0-1-
|
|


X is time, Y is space.
Left of one is inflation and not well known.

Background is 300k years from some zero.
There is also a metric year.

Once there was a Phlogiston theory.
It lasted quite some time when more was not needed.

[Dicknose]

Before the Big Bang, or before the universe? I have read about this but I was counting that as part of the universe's existence.

http://news.sciencemag.org/physics/2014/04/scientists-find-imprint-universe-existed-big-bang



That link clearly says it's an April Fools joke.

Time as we know it only exists with space and hence inside the universe.

[Dicknose]

Time and space are linked in ways that are not obvious.

First, the speed of light is the fastest you can travel.
This seems to be because time and space are tied together to make this limit.
We have space-time, not just space and time.
The consequence of this is both time and space have no absolute fixed measures, they depend on your speed.
If you travel very fast compared to someone else, you think time and space are ok, but your measurements will look different to the other person.
If you both have a clock and a 1 meter ruler, you will see their clock ticking slowly and their ruler is shorter than 1m.
You are seeing time dilation and space dilation (length contraction)
What seem even more odd, the other person sees the exact same thing happen to you!
Both of people think they are ok and the other person is slow and shorter.
This is Einsteins Special Theory of Relativity
called special because the conditions under which it holds are special (no acceleration or gravity), which actually makes the theory less special!
This is also where e=mc^2 comes from.

Many years later relativity was done to handle gravity.
And some even bigger surprises happened.
Gravity bends space! Actually bends space-time. So it can bend and alter the flow of time.
We are taught at school that gravity is mass pulling as a force on another mass.
This changes that view to be gravity is mass bending space-time.
A satellite in orbit around the Earth is because gravity pulls and holds it there.
Or is it because space is warped and its traveling in its view of a straight line, but that line is a circle because space is bent.

Interstellar showed them on a planet in orbit around a black hole.
They don't feel the massive gravity of the black hole because they are in orbit. Just like people on the International Space Station are weightless and don't feel Earths gravity (even though it something like 90% of gravity we feel on the surface)
So they only have the local gravity of the planet.
But compared to their main ship, which is much further away, they are actually under a very strong gravity in this orbit.
That affects time, so their time seems to run slow for the guy left on the main ship. He ages years when they age hours.
The science behind this is correct.
What is complete rubbish is that they can take off and fly back to the main ship.
The energy required to get out of such a large gravity field is huge. Think billions of times larger than lifting off from Earth. Their craft didn't seem to have that sort of energy or technology.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR3Igc3Rhfg

[Rare White Ape]

DN, I wrote a bloody big post in reply to yours but my browser ate it, however the gist was that I thought it was plausible that they could have left that planet and escaped the black hole's gravitational pull.

The details… gone. Too much scotch and vodka.

[Godson]

You can't modify a post on mobile...

[Dicknose]

DN, I wrote a bloody big post in reply to yours but my browser ate it, however the gist was that I thought it was plausible that they could have left that planet and escaped the black hole's gravitational pull.

The details… gone. Too much scotch and vodka.
Of cause you can escape, physics isn't impossible. Just completely impracticable.
But to get that huge time dilation they must be near the event horizon. The energy required to get out of such a deep gravity well is astronomical.

We have managed to get rockets to launch probes with enough energy to escape the Suns gravity (voyagers and new horizons) and even then needed a few tricks like slingshots.
That is from the gravity of a star, from a long way out (earths orbit) and for a small probe.
That is for a system with escape velocity of 42km/s, while c is 300,000km/s
Energy is a square of this. So we are talking millions of times more energy. That is per mass.

Now you might say - but they are in orbit, so they have orbital energy. Yes that helps a lot.
Escape velocity is sqrt(2)* orbital velocity. So you are almost 2/3 there just being in orbit.

But that also applies to Earth. They still need something millions of times more powerful than we have built.
It also doesn't match up with their trip to Saturn. That was 2 years. Yet they can travel further and from a much deeper gravity well in a few hours?

[mk]

Relative scale
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nuclear/nucuni.html

[LHutton]

That link clearly says it's an April Fools joke.

Time as we know it only exists with space and hence inside the universe.
:lol:

That's what I get for not reading the whole thing. What I assumed it was about was the gravitational waves discovered.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gravity-waves-cmb-b-mode-polarization/
http://science.howstuffworks.com/dictionary/astronomy-terms/before-big-bang.htm

But of course CTCs are theoretically possible, so maybe at the Big Bang level, the past didn't create the future but just looks like it did from the way we view time. Since not all black holes collapse to a point, e.g. rotating and charged, maybe the black holes in the universe today, some of them anyway, go back to the Big bang and created it.

[LHutton]

What is complete rubbish is that they can take off and fly back to the main ship.
The energy required to get out of such a large gravity field is huge. Think billions of times larger than lifting off from Earth. Their craft didn't seem to have that sort of energy or technology.
Oddly enough, no one mentioned that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_(film)#Scientific_accuracy

Would they be able to achieve a higher orbit though? Because the planet has a speed in orbit and if they leave the local gravity with an additional speed to that of the planet, then surely they could attain a higher orbit relative to the black hole?

[Dicknose]

Wikipedia seemed mostly about physics, rather than engineering/practicality.
Plenty of other reviews mention it.
Yes they could get into a higher orbit. But how high before they run out of fuel?
How can they do that trip so much quicker than Earth - Saturn?

[Rare White Ape]

It also doesn't match up with their trip to Saturn. That was 2 years. Yet they can travel further and from a much deeper gravity well in a few hours?

Ahhh, I missed that part. A few film storyline tricks and liberties were used there I think.

[LHutton]

Wikipedia seemed mostly about physics, rather than engineering/practicality.
Plenty of other reviews mention it.
Yes they could get into a higher orbit. But how high before they run out of fuel?
How can they do that trip so much quicker than Earth - Saturn?
Editing.:)

I haven't actually watched the movie but some reviews seem to talk about them passing through a black hole and being spat out its back end. So I'm not sure if the black hole in question is an uncharged non-rotating black hole and they're visiting a planet near it, or whether they've gone through a wormhole based on a charged or rotating model.

From wiki plot:

Crop blight has made growing food on Earth nearly impossible, threatening the existence of humanity. Cooper, a widowed former NASA pilot, runs a farm with his father-in-law, son and daughter Murphy. Murphy believes her bedroom is haunted by a poltergeist. When the "ghost" creates a pattern of dust on the floor, Cooper realizes an unknown intelligence is using gravity to communicate, and interprets the pattern as geographic coordinates, which Cooper and Murphy follow to a secret NASA installation.

There, they meet Dr. Brand, a college professor of Cooper's. Brand reveals that a wormhole, apparently created by an alien intelligence, appeared near Saturn 48 years before and leads to a distant galaxy, with numerous potentially habitable planets. Twelve volunteers have gone through it, knowing they were unlikely to be able to return, each to assess a different planet's suitability as a new home for humanity. Three – Miller, Edmunds and Mann – have sent encouraging data from planets near Gargantua, a supermassive black hole. Brand recruits Cooper to pilot the spacecraft Endurance to evaluate as many of the planets as possible, while he works on a theory to harness gravity for propulsion, which would allow humanity to leave Earth (which he calls "Plan A"). However, should his efforts fail, the Endurance also carries 5,000 frozen embryos as "Plan B", to provide for humanity's survival. Cooper agrees to the plan, angering Murphy.

Maybe the wormhole helped, or this whole gravity manipulation thing??

[Rare White Ape]

At the start of the film they travel to a wormhole that is located near Saturn's orbit, which takes them to a black hole elsewhere in the galaxy.

At the end of the film, McConaughey's character sacrifices his mass to the space station so that it can Oberth effect its way back to the wormhole by taking a landing craft while on an intercept trajectory with the event horizon.

During this end sequence he enters a multidimensional realm inside the black hole that's contained within his daughter's bedroom where he can travel through 2-D time.

It's worth mentioning:

A black hole doesn't need to be rotating for it to have a gravitational force. Rotation is an effect of gravity but gravity is not an effect of rotation, it's an effect of mass (or if you want to get all Einsteinian, gravity is an effect of differing observational viewpoints in non-euclidean space... or something maybe). If a black hole occupies a singularity then there is no reference frame for any rotation to be measured anyway, but if it has been made of matter that collapsed in on itself then there's a sure bet that the matter was rotating before the collapse, so yeah, all black holes should rotate. Or not.

And a wormhole is not a gravitational object. They are folds in space-time. Get a piece of paper (a 2-D object) and draw a dot on one half of the page, then fold it through the third dimension and rub some of that ink onto the other half of the page. That's a fold. In 3-D space like ours, you have to fold space through a fourth dimension to connect one place to another without having to travel through space to get there.

About the only thing that would have provided a gravity boost would be the Oberth effect while going around the black hole, but that's a trip that would've taken years to complete anyway.

[LHutton]

It does need to be rotating or charged to enable passage through though. Otherwise the journey is to a small compact point.

A wormhole definitely has gravity on both sides according to the Einstein-Rosen Bridge mechanism. It's the gravity that folds the space in the fourth dimension.

[Dicknose]

A black hole doesn't need to be rotating for it to have a gravitational force. Rotation is an effect of gravity but gravity is not an effect of rotation, it's an effect of mass

Rotation is an effect of... rotation!
It is not really a property of gravity - but of mass. It is really a form of momentum.

Rotational inertia is kept even after a black hole forms. It is one of the few properties that are kept (mass and charge are the others - ok and momentum but thats usually not mentioned because it is not absolute)

You obviously need mass to has rotational inertia. And rotation of that mass.

Rotation becomes more interesting as it twists space and hence the rotation does affect the gravity.
Also it might be possible to extract energy from a rotating black hole. This would reduce the black holes rotational inertia. Similar to say extracting energy from a rotating magnet.

[Rare White Ape]

Rotation becomes more interesting as it twists space and hence the rotation does affect the gravity.

Ahh, I did not know that :up:

[LHutton]

RWA - This is what I was referring to wrt 'rotating' and 'charged':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole#Singularity


In the case of a charged (Reissner–Nordström) or rotating (Kerr) black hole, it is possible to avoid the singularity. Extending these solutions as far as possible reveals the hypothetical possibility of exiting the black hole into a different spacetime with the black hole acting as a wormhole.[63] The possibility of traveling to another universe is however only theoretical, since any perturbation will destroy this possibility.[64] It also appears to be possible to follow closed timelike curves (going back to one's own past) around the Kerr singularity, which lead to problems with causality like the grandfather paradox.[65] It is expected that none of these peculiar effects would survive in a proper quantum treatment of rotating and charged black holes.[66]

[mk]

Artificial evaporation of sea water for tackling CA trought.
(some/square is available w/o usage? energy)

How much water that would be?

[overpowered]

You're talking about distilling sea water, which is rather expensive. Membrane processes are cheaper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z8EtlBe8Ts

[LHutton]

You're talking about distilling sea water, which is rather expensive.
It is if you're producing the energy solely for evaporation but there are many powerstations running baseloads at night and the majority of the power is still wasted. So in theory it could be economically viable at night.

There are of course also cooling processes in industry that might conduct the evaporation during equipment cooling and again, powerstations also evaporate water as part of electricity production anyway.

[mk]

My thought was sea based.
Something where sea constantly sweeps concentrates away.

Maybe a cylinder with cups and pipes that sun would boil and roll.

On the other hand,
succesfull operation means fog and rain, day and night.

Another was wave energy rotated fabric loop that would rise from the sea and is then dried by sun.
The fabric could also grow what ever w/o much fuss.

[Dicknose]

I don't think you guys understand the scale of these desalination operations.
Sydney has a deal plant that can supply 250ML a day.

If you have water than is 1cm deep and 1km*1km that is 10ML
Can the sun evaporate 1cm deep per area a day?
Can you build something 5km by 5km to do this?

Energy to evaporate 1L of water from 20C is about 2.6MJ
So 1 days water is 250000000*2.6MJ in kWh = 180 million kWh
Sydney desal plant used 260 million kWh in a full year of operation. Boiling would use that in less than 36 hours.

It's just not energy efficient or practical to use evaporation desalination for large scale potable water production.

[Dicknose]

And this 250ML/day desal is just to help top up the water supply during droughts.
Water usage is more like 1,500ML/day (about 4.5 million people)
Luckily our dams are near full and currently available water storage is 2.5 million ML
Or the equivalent of 27 years of desal operation.
And several years of water supply. Although a drought over 10 years caused our supply to get down to 33%, which was when we built the desalination plant (and the drought ended while it was being built!)

The desal plant is designed so they can scale it up to 500ML/day, rather than build a 2nd plant.
But even then it's just to supplement rain and dams
http://www.waternsw.com.au/supply/dam-levels/greater-sydneys-dam-levels

[Rare White Ape]

I don't think you guys understand the scale of these desalination operations.

This is a great illustration on how hard it is for mere humans (who occupy a space not much bigger than half a cubic meter) to comprehend the volume of things that happen in the normal operation of a planet.

For instance, take this fairly well-known image (http://water.usgs.gov/edu/earthhowmuch.html):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHEjj1uWQAAYrvM.jpg:large

It features earth alongside smaller spheres representing all the water on earth. The big one is obvious, as is the second one. But there's a tiny one hovering over Gerorgia, which is 34.9 miles in diameter. It looks so incredibly tiny, but that is supposed to represent all of the non-saline surface water held in all the rivers and lakes on our planet. That's a volume roughly 186,226,000 times bigger than a half-cubic-meter human.

Now, according to this link (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ca/nwis/current/?type=flow), the Colorado river is currently pumping out 9210 cubic foot/second of water, which equates to 22,500 ML a day. (I don't know of a more relevant river for the Cali drought, but if you take any river then look at its flow rate (2nd-last column) and multiply it by 2.44 you'll get it in ML/day).

A de-sal plant designed to supplement a major city's water consumption at 500ML is not going to make half a dint in solving any drought problems. Plus they're expensive and take years to build and use heaps of power and are basically the worst idea known to mankind.

The only way to solve it is to wait for decent rainfall, unfortunately. One good day of rain can supply many megaliters of water over and above what a de-sal plant could make in weeks.

[LHutton]

I don't think it's intended for anything other than supplementation of the current supply though and if 'free energy' is available as part of another process, then it helps a little.

Cost-wise I'm a blank on that. This is the science thread, not the accounting thread.;) If it was the latter then space exploration just wouldn't happen.

[mk]

Something is eating Queensland.

[Cam]

My wife's a scientist.

[Dicknose]

Something is eating Queensland.

Cane toads, crown of thorn starfish, rugby league fans?

[Rare White Ape]

A sinkhole

[Dicknose]

Sinkholes happen all over the place. Florida has had some really good ones, at least one took a person with it (never found the body)

[overpowered]

You forgot drop bears.

[Rare White Ape]

Sinkholes happen all over the place. Florida has had some really good ones, at least one took a person with it (never found the body)

Yep, well, there's a 200-meter-ish sinkhole consuming a caravan park on a beach just north of Brisbane.

It's a completely unremarkable occurrence, yet it still makes headlines on the radio.

[LHutton]

Predator just got real:

http://www.defensereview.com/berkeley-lab-team-develops-ultrathin-flexible-gold-nano-brick-invisibilty-cloak-adaptive-camouflagevisual-cloaking-tech-for-any-3d-object/

[FaultyMario]

Time and space...

:up:

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuCdsyCWmt8

[Freude am Fahren]

Damn. Nerd overload! :up:

We had those "video record" discs at my last station.

[sandydandy]

sandydandy get on YouTube and look up a channel called PBS Spacetime. Recently they did a series on… actual space-time, so it's near the top of the list and won't be hard to find.

I don't fucking get it either (not 100% or even 50% but I'm working on it!) but the gist of it is that events in time and events in space are all dependent on an individual observer's coordinates in both space and time relative to an event, as well as an observer's trajectory through space and time relative to other events.

It's as far removed from our perception of reality as quantum mechanics is, so don't feel bad that you don't get it. And if the videos I directed you to confuse you even more… well keep looking for quality info to fill in the gaps in your knowledge. The truth is out there! Thanks for the info. A lot of great videos on that channel!

[LHutton]

Were the answers to this ever released?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUThGpp6ze4

[Crazed_Insanity]

Were the answers to this ever released?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUThGpp6ze4

Without using calculus and algebra or any sort of math altogether, my answer is the 2 particles will reach that spot at the same exact moment!

[Dicknose]

Using the logic that they wouldnt ask this unless the answer was the same!

Yes they are the same. And the answer doesnt depend on the radius (just the density)
So you could have two such planets of the same density but different sizes and do a 4 way race.

The race is also always equal if you consider "latitude" - they are always at the same latitude. Both are in fact a simple harmonic motion.

Also the falling case ends up being the same as Hookes Law for springs - since in both cases the force depends only on the distance. For an ideal spring, the force depends on the distance it is stretched. For the falling case, the gravity depends on the radius below. Ok comparing spring to falling thru the difference is then the constants (the spring stiffness v gravitation constant x density)

[LHutton]

Both are in fact a simple harmonic motion.
That was exactly my first thought.

[LHutton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwwIFcdUFrE

[Rare White Ape]

Were the answers to this ever released?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUThGpp6ze4

Yes it is on their video page in the new host intro video.

The answer: according to Newton they arrive at the same time. According to Einstein… they don't tell you!

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLh9xO_ethY

[LHutton]

Yes it is on their video page in the new host intro video.

The answer: according to Newton they arrive at the same time. According to Einstein… they don't tell you!
Got it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzUl3D41oIs

Newtonian
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5J9465nm7EhfkVKcWdPUUhxSFY3Slk2MXV XY21DVHZ1VFhkSjVZMjZWaXFhcGREa0RXUmM&usp=sharing&tid=0B5J9465nm7EhflhCWXdBZGpNR016UDN6UWRBNVpMQ2Nfc mtlQnpaaTc2TmxTWEpva3ducTQ

Einsteinian
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5J9465nm7EhflNZZGItV2N4VFphTHN3TTB tTlgzV0Zrb056eFNkR25GWV9MVWRHS3hEVkU&usp=sharing&tid=0B5J9465nm7EhflhCWXdBZGpNR016UDN6UWRBNVpMQ2Nfc mtlQnpaaTc2TmxTWEpva3ducTQ

These videos were pretty good as regards explaining the size of the universe. One question of the second video though. If you moved towards the event horizon wouldn't the speed you're moving away from Earth at automatically increase because of the expansion of space and if so wouldn't that mean that the object moving away from Earth faster than light is no longer moving away from you faster than the speed of light?

Is the correct interpretation of the two videos that there is a distance marker in space beyond which stuff is much away faster than light, but that distance marker is itself accelerating faster than light, so eventually it catches light emitted from things moving away faster than light? hence the difference between the Cosmic Event Horizon and Particle Horizon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBr4GkRnY04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwwIFcdUFrE

[Freude am Fahren]

http://data.whicdn.com/images/168819937/large.gif

This image can't be used enough when talking about cosmology.

[Rare White Ape]

One question of the second video though. If you moved towards the event horizon wouldn't the speed you're moving away from Earth at automatically increase because of the expansion of space and if so wouldn't that mean that the object moving away from Earth faster than light is no longer moving away from you faster than the speed of light?

Space between you and earth is expanding, so your speed relative to earth is increasing, so yes that bit's true.

But space is expanding all around you in all directions, so your destination (the object you're trying to catch) is also moving away at an increased rate.

And unless you are adding energy to your velocity, the speed at which you move through space itself won't increase, just the distances do. So you're not really moving through space faster, it's just that the distance between you and earth is getting bigger without you doing anything about it.

On a slightly related note, any serious discussions in the future about super luminal travel will more than likely revolve around manipulating this expansion of space.

[LHutton]

Space between you and earth is expanding, so your speed relative to earth is increasing, so yes that bit's true.

But space is expanding all around you in all directions, so your destination (the object you're trying to catch) is also moving away at an increased rate.

And unless you are adding energy to your velocity, the speed at which you move through space itself won't increase, just the distances do. So you're not really moving through space faster, it's just that the distance between you and earth is getting bigger without you doing anything about it.

On a slightly related note, any serious discussions in the future about super luminal travel will more than likely revolve around manipulating this expansion of space.
Yes but that will require negative mass to be created first according to the theory of the Alcubierre drive.

At 3:15 in the second video he talks about not being able to receive new information from just outside the Cosmic Event Horizon, but isn't that contradicted by the first video and the fact that we can see stuff 46.5 billion light years away, which must have been expanding outward faster than c because the universe is only 13.8 billion years old according to present theory. With the explanation being that the expansion of subluminal space > (speed of object - c). I'm also pretty sure we see things outside the CEH now and whilst they happened some time ago, the CEH at that time must have been even closer if subluminal space is expanding as per first video. Sorry for the questions, I'm just trying to reconcile the two videos in my head.

[Rare White Ape]

When that info left its source, it was within our horizon. We see now it as it was 10 or more billion years ago, but it's distance has increased over those billions of years, so right now it's outside our even horizon.

It's not a static universe, ok, so things change over those billions of years. We're still receiving light from extremely distant objects but gradually they get dimmer and dimmer until they fade into blackness, and more of the universe is disappearing behind this curtain.

Our knowledge of the cosmic horizon is fairly slim at the moment, so wait until the James Webb telescope is up and running. It's designed to see the distant universe in the infra-red at a high degree of sensitivity so it'll be able to tell us more about the most distant objects and what happens as they travel away from us at higher expansion rates. It might even spot proto-galaxies like ours in the earliest stages of formation.

[LHutton]

When that info left its source, it was within our horizon. We see now it as it was 10 or more billion years ago, but it's distance has increased over those billions of years, so right now it's outside our even horizon.

It's not a static universe, ok, so things change over those billions of years. We're still receiving light from extremely distant objects but gradually they get dimmer and dimmer until they fade into blackness, and more of the universe is disappearing behind this curtain.

Our knowledge of the cosmic horizon is fairly slim at the moment, so wait until the James Webb telescope is up and running. It's designed to see the distant universe in the infra-red at a high degree of sensitivity so it'll be able to tell us more about the most distant objects and what happens as they travel away from us at higher expansion rates. It might even spot proto-galaxies like ours in the earliest stages of formation.
But the first video, at 1:45, says we can see things moving away faster than light. I do realise that we're seeing them as and where they were billions of years ago, but 1:45 in video 1 does not seem to agree with 3:15 in video 2 unless... Okay, I think I see now. It is possible for them to agree if, things currently 16 billion light years away (event horizon) will be >46.5 billion light years away in 13.8 billion years. Wow, I guess I was just struggling to comprehend the speed of the expansion. That really is some pretty fierce expansion. So as regards long-term survival and finding another planet, not only do we have to find one and build a really fast spaceship, but we have to get to wherever it is now, which is now likely much further away than it looks and even further by the time get there.

So to tie the two videos together and reconcile them, whatever appears to be 16 billion light years away, is now further away and travelling away way faster than the speed of light as space expands? So does the event horizon apply to what appears to be inside that distance, or what actually is inside it time now as regards new information? But then we'll never actually visually see anything go past it. But fuck, we can see things past it, so how can it actually be an event horizon? Things are supposed to stop dead at event horizons according to what an observer witnesses.

I look forward to the James Webb telescope.

[LHutton]

Okay I got it. Figure 1 is amazing for explaining it. There are many different horizons. I was confusing Hubble Sphere and Event Horizon.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=1&fid=8838889&jid=PAS&volumeId=21&issueId=01&aid=8838887&bodyId=&membershipNumber=&societyETOCSession=

In order of appearance:

a) What we'll be able to see from now.

b) What we can see from the beginning with expansion plotted.

c) What we can see from beginning without accelerating expansion plotted.

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a508/sigmafour1/Expansion_zpsi3m7zuy7.png (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/sigmafour1/media/Expansion_zpsi3m7zuy7.png.html)

[overpowered]

Never-Before-Seen Images Reveal How The Fukushima Exclusion Zone Was Swallowed By Nature

http://www.boredpanda.com/photos-fukushima-exclusion-zone-podniesinski/

[overpowered]

Canadian inventor tests new prototype of record-setting hoverboard

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/hoverboard-duru-1.3270569

[LHutton]

Never-Before-Seen Images Reveal How The Fukushima Exclusion Zone Was Swallowed By Nature

http://www.boredpanda.com/photos-fukushima-exclusion-zone-podniesinski/
Looks more and more like Pripyat every day.

[LHutton]

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/space/stories/alien-technology-possibly-spotted-orbiting-distant-star


Alien technology possibly spotted orbiting a distant star

[MR2 Fan]

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/space/stories/alien-technology-possibly-spotted-orbiting-distant-star

intriguing!