Random Car Thoughts

[Random]

Maybe it's just you.

Cutie. ;)

[KillerB]

The Challenger (and the B2600!) are total cougar bait, however.

[novicius]

I got a young woman (who admittedly was a complete hick) to tell me she LOVED the sound my muffler-less Mustang makes. :lol:

[Random]

Definitely, but the Falcon has to go regardless. I'm not going to put the money into the body and I've taken it as far mechanically as I'm realistically going to go. It's super cool to have, but after thinking about it for a long time it's just not a good enough fit for our lifestyle to hang on to it anymore. I'd like to either replace it with something older that I could take to Midnight Mass or something more practical (eg a wagon) that fulfills a more distinct place in the driveway. As is, it's kind of an in-betweener. In 2010 I'd planned to keep it for two years and move on, but I got invested and learned a lot. But I gotta cut the cord, come to terms at least a little better with the realities of my life. Same story as the diesel Suburban, really.

You can use the Wrangler as a toad! :devil:

[thesameguy]

No lies, the thought occurred...

[Godson]

Good thing I didn't get a motorcycle to meet women, as mine mostly seems to get attention from dudes and underage girls.

Or terribly unattractive ones.

[Freude am Fahren]

I was just thinking about something the other day. The new F-150's body is made of aluminum. The majority of work trucks are F-150's. This is going to cause problems with all of those businesses that use magnetic logos on their trucks. They have to go back to paint/vinyl.

[Kchrpm]

Wraps seem to be very popular nowadays. Or maybe it's just because I live about 10 minutes from a company that does them.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, some of the higher end companies go all out on a design wrap. The simpler ones seem to just slap a roughly 2'x2' magnetic ad on the doors of a white work truck. It will probably become more of a problem in a few years, when the new models are more prevalent and start going out used.

[TheBenior]

In local news, I've been considered adding a second car for wife mobility/future baby hauling.

Thinking that the extra room, AWD, and ground clearance would be nice, I looked at mostly crossover SUVs over the last couple days, all with automatic transmissions. Thoughts on each:

Ford Focus: Hatch is smaller than on my Mazdaspeed3. So much for convincing the wife to drive a manual ST.

Ford Escape: Wife is indifferent to styling, though I like it. Best deal at the moment (0% financing for 72 months + $1000 cash back!). I test drove the 1.6L Ecoboost 4WD, which handled adequately. Low end and mid-range acceleration felt pretty good, but top-end is weak, so overall merely adequate. Second row middle seat seemed to lack a top/rear child seat anchor point. SE interior isn't bad, but the Titanium interior is definitely much nicer. Decently sized rear cargo area, okay rear visibility. 7.9" ground clearance.

Subaru XV Crosstrek: Wife rather likes how these tall Impreza wagons look. I test drove a Limited model, which mainly includes leather and a better infotainment system. The driving experience is very car-like, so quite familiar to someone who drives a compact hatchback on a daily basis, though obviously softer than my Mazdaspeed3. Acceleration would also be adequate at best, though it probably feels better with the manual transmission. Cargo area seemed a bit wider, but shallower than my Mazdaspeed3. Can be had in Limited trim for ~$26k. Interior is unimpressive, even in Limited trim. 8.7" ground clearance.

Subaru Forester: Wife is indifferent to styling, as am I. No cash incentives on either Subaru since they're selling too well. Noticeably roomier than the Crosstrek, with excellent visibility all around. Seemed around $2k more than Crosstreks with similar equipment. The extra size and height definitely show in the handling, which was less car-like than in the Crosstrek. Acceleration with the 2.5L felt a little quicker than the Crosstrek and it's 2.0L, though still not impressive. Light fabric in the lower trim model I drove was already showing some dirt/stains. Rear seat appeared to be the biggest of all vehicles I test drove. AWD system is said to be the best in the class. If one wants leather, the price starts around $30k. Interior is functional and has the best headroom, but that's about it. Seats lack any semblance of effective bolstering, as what little bolstering that exists is also very soft. Local resale value is excellent on both Subarus, with slightly used examples going for prices so close to new that I don't understand who can afford said prices without also being able/willing to buy new. One thing in the back of my mind is that recent 2.0 and 2.5L Subaru engines have had issues with excessive oil consumption. 8.9" ground clearance.

Wife while sitting in driver's seat: "How do I look?"
Me: "Like a lesbian?"
Wife: [sneers]
Me: "You're the one sitting in a Subaru."

Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring: Wife likes the styling of this, and I like it the best. Definitely a more snug, car-like cockpit that gives you the feel of sitting in it rather than on it like the Forester. Interior design is hands-down more attractive than either Subaru. Seats have more, stiffer side bolstering. Handling and acceleration are by far the best out of the vehicles I test drove. Engine is definitely noisier than the Subarus, but all of them are quiet compared to my aftermarket turbo-back exhaust equipped Mazdaspeed3. Ride is definitely firmer than the Subarus, but still softer than what we're used to. Impacts with road imperfections seem to create some of the noise that they do in my car, without feeling the harsh impact. Interior volume has more room than the Forester by some measures, but feels tighter. Cargo area behind the rear seatbacks is definitely taller, but rear visibility is worse than the Forester. 2015 models with pretty much everything can be had for $31.5k, and there's $500 in owner loyalty cash along along with Mazda making your first two car payments. 2016s with various minor improvements theoretically can be had for slightly more (with LED headlights! What a time to be alive), but many also have a radar cruise package that adds an extra $1500. Owner loyalty bonus still available, as is 0.9-1.9% financing. Overall, around $2k less than comparably equipped Foresters. Infotainment/nav system seems to get mediocre reviews, and was revised for 2016. 8.5" ground clearance.

Other: I didn't consider the top sellers in the class, the CR-V (boring, no deals), or the RAV-4 (only not boring because it's hideously ugly). The one vehicle Mitsubishi can sell, the Outlander Sport, looks a bit small, and who the eff knows how long Mitsubishi's dealer network will stick around.

Between the above vehicles, I'm now debating the merits of the CX-5 (handling, power, style) and the Forester. I wish we liked the Escape more on account of the deals, but we just preferred the Subarus and Mazda better for various reasons.

Used cars: It seems like the good $3-5k used cars from before the crash of 2008 have been replaced with $7-10k cars. Sub-$5k cars seem to consist of 10+ year old compact cars with 100k miles on the low end, along with CUVs with 125k miles or more. The Japanese cars with that kind of mileage scare me because they tend to attract second/third owners who defer maintenance. The VWs (wife likes Jettas) scare me because they're Mk4s, which were among the least reliable vehicles of their day (I do not think that coil packs, window regulators, and random sensors should be consumable items, nor should 5007 and 7506 bulbs have to be purchased in bulk ;) ). The American compact cars of that vintage were... not especially good.

[Kchrpm]

Support Bryan and check out the Juke/Rogue.

[novicius]

Do you really need top end power in the Baby Car? :lol: #escapetitanium

[21Kid]

/future baby hauling. :D

Does it have to be a SUV/hatchback? My Impreza was fine with 1 kid. 1/2 back seat + trunk was plenty of storage room for all necessary kids stuff. Even for overnight trips.

What about a sportier Subaru? WRX/Legacy GT

Shannon had a Forester XT while we lived in Wisconsin and loved it.

[thesameguy]

Used cars: It seems like the good $3-5k used cars from before the crash of 2008 have been replaced with $7-10k cars. Sub-$5k cars seem to consist of 10+ year old compact cars with 100k miles on the low end, along with CUVs with 125k miles or more. The Japanese cars with that kind of mileage scare me because they tend to attract second/third owners who defer maintenance. The VWs (wife likes Jettas) scare me because they're Mk4s, which were among the least reliable vehicles of their day (I do not think that coil packs, window regulators, and random sensors should be consumable items, nor should 5007 and 7506 bulbs have to be purchased in bulk ;) ). The American compact cars of that vintage were... not especially good.

Ugh, yes.

But, if you can go slow the 2.slow MKIVs are pretty cheap to run and pretty durable, doubly so if you can make a manual work. And the first gen Focus is *still* a good car. It's really just the Cavalier & Neon that you probably want to avoid domestically from back in the day. You could probably also look at a second gen Volvo XC... they are pretty decent. Just skip to the 2nd gens, don't wasted time on the '99+ 1st gens.

[Random]

/future baby hauling.

Are congrats in order, or are you still just practicing? ;)

[Freude am Fahren]

My mom just bought an Outback, it's pretty great. Pricier than the XV, and probably the Forester, depending on options. We also looked at the CX-5, and while I didn't drive it, it seemed really nice. Definitely the best looking against its competitors.

[TheBenior]

Support Bryan and check out the Juke/Rogue.
Wife hates them both, styling-wise, which is a shame because there are good deals to be had on the Rogue. Juke is probably too small anyway.


Do you really need top end power in the Baby Car? :lol: #escapetitanium
It would be nice to have a little more go if I ever say, tow a motorcycle. The 1.6L reminded me of the 2.0 Jettas I've ridden in; low and mid-range feel good, but there's not much payoff for flooring it.


:D

Does it have to be a SUV/hatchback? My Impreza was fine with 1 kid. 1/2 back seat + trunk was plenty of storage room for all necessary kids stuff. Even for overnight trips.

What about a sportier Subaru? WRX/Legacy GT

Shannon had a Forester XT while we lived in Wisconsin and loved it.
Bro, you know how tall Janelle and I are, we totally need the extra room. I was also thinking that higher ground clearance would be nice, since I have one of those jobs that expects you to show up no matter what the weather is like. I rarely ever have traction issues in the MS3 (front-wheel drive, winter tires, manual trans, and a limited-slip diff see to that), but I have certainly had ground clearance issues in deep snow.


Ugh, yes.

But, if you can go slow the 2.slow MKIVs are pretty cheap to run and pretty durable, doubly so if you can make a manual work. And the first gen Focus is *still* a good car. It's really just the Cavalier & Neon that you probably want to avoid domestically from back in the day. You could probably also look at a second gen Volvo XC... they are pretty decent. Just skip to the 2nd gens, don't wasted time on the '99+ 1st gens.
The best deals on Jettas do seem to be on the manual transmission cars.


Are congrats in order, or are you still just practicing? ;)
Janelle is 17 weeks along.

[Random]

:up:

[Random]

FWIW, a lot of the online reviews you'll read that complain about lack of baby-seat room are non-valid for folks of our physical stature. ;)

[thesameguy]

The best deals on Jettas do seem to be on the manual transmission cars.

Probably because all the automatics of that vintage are either low-mileage creampuffs or paperweights. :)

Have you considered a full size SUV? Hard to go wrong with a Tahoe or something. You'll probably replace a fuel pump or two and an AC compressor, but otherwise fairly bulletproof, cheap, reasonably safe, comfortable, and roomy. You can buy '96-'99s for less than three grand all day and all night around here. For commuting they'd kill you on gas, but for errand running and plowing through busy sidewalks they're a great option IMHO.

[novicius]

It would be nice to have a little more go if I ever say, tow a motorcycle. The 1.6L reminded me of the 2.0 Jettas I've ridden in; low and mid-range feel good, but there's not much payoff for flooring it.
Just seems like such a rare occasion to nix an otherwise good deal. #shrug


Janelle is 17 weeks along.
Congrats!! :D

[Freude am Fahren]

So, there's a small chance I might get a new job in a place with this mystical season you people call winter. Anyway, I was thinking if I do, I might trade in the BRZ, and I was thinking STI or Focus RS. Am I crazy? I love the BRZ, but AWD and some more room would be nice. Still gotta have some get though. I wish Subaru would have kept the STI hatch, BTW.

I thought about getting a winter beater, but I'll be living in a city, so parking/storage would be a pain.

[Kchrpm]

Snow tires will do more for you than AWD.

[Freude am Fahren]

Well, yeah, but snow tires and AWD will do more for me than snow tires and RWD. The other reasons are just as much a factor too though, more power, more space.

The other thought is that living and working a city with good public transit means the car will be much more of a luxury/toy than it is now, where it's a lifeline, so maybe just keep the BRZ. I dunno, just spinning ideas around in my head.

[Yw-slayer]

If it's just going to be a toy, then keep it as a toy rather than getting a practical car.

[Godson]

Snow tires and rwd have done me fine. Even with 5+ inches on the ground.

[KillerB]

Well, yeah, but snow tires and AWD will do more for me than snow tires and RWD.

Yeah, they'll get you further out where you ought not be before you get stuck.

What do you do for a living? Unless you work in certain professions like nursing where you have to get there no matter what, any more than a few inches down on the road without plowing means you aren't going anywhere anyway.

If you really do need "get there in any weather" ability, you need something with some ground clearance.

[thesameguy]

Like an Eagle SX4!

http://www.veradiiluna.com/dmm/jeep/AMC_SX-4.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

I'm work in TV. Newscast director, so yeah, I have to get there. Part of the reason I'd look at places very close to the station.

[TheBenior]

If you live somewhere that regularly gets deep snow, ground clearance is pretty important, but I've done alright in my Sentra and Mazdaspeed3 with snow tires, and neither of those cars had even 5" of ground clearance stock. However, while I have a job that requires me to go in no matter what the weather is like, I also live in a major city where the main roads get plowed pretty quickly. Because of that, parking (especially off-alley and street parking on side streets) is really the only time that the lack of ground clearance in the (lowered) Sentra and (stock spring) Mazdaspeed3 is ever an issue.

High ground clearance isn't everything though. Our 2WD Tahoe PPVs were worse in the snow than the RWD Crown Vic PIs, in spite of their extra 2.4" of ground clearance (8.0" vs 5.6"). Our newer AWD Explorers only have 6.5" of ground clearance, but I'd take one in heavy snow over the Tahoes every time. So I guess what I'm saying is, that 2WD Tahoes with all-season performance tires are fucking terrible in the snow :lol:

[Kchrpm]

The BAC Mono got a new engine from another Ford UK tuner, Mountune. From a 2.3 liter four making 280 hp to now a 2.5 liter four making 305 hp. They're also considering making a turbocharged version before they move on to their next model.

http://jalopnik.com/inside-the-worlds-fastest-toy-company-1750937591
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/07/2016-bac-mono-engine-update-video/

[MR2 Fan]

I just saw the 2016 Prius and it's clear to me that Toyota wants to sell less of them, because wow, is it ugly

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/fc93ce072bb925022eebbc051bcc3bb50877b46e/c=56-0-943-667&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/2015/11/14/DetroitFreePress/DetroitFreePress/635831332326905318-2016-Toyota-Prius-01.jpg

I've always been ok with boring styling, but the proportions and angles of this are all wrong...looks like a 5 year old designed it.

[thesameguy]

True, true. It is however evolutionary of the current Toyota/Lexus design language and I think Toyota is trying to incorporate a little more future and a little less transparent. The first two generations did well because they weren't over-the-top future cars - which has been a major criticism of the Volt. I think with more brands in the space and consumers looking for a way to differentiate themselves even further, Toyota is doing some more aggressive styling to get some attention. Unfortunately, one think Toyota has never mastered is aggressive styling. That thing is fuglier than the Camry-influenced Corolla.

[CudaMan]

I'd say they've out-Aztek'd the Aztek on that one.

[Freude am Fahren]

So many cars these days remind me of the Fry "Not sure if" meme.

[Phil_SS]

I'd say they've out-Aztek'd the Aztek on that one.

Totally agree. Just plain hideous.

[Jason]

Holy balls, that's uglier than the first Prius.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think current toyota/Lexus designers must be smoking something when they were on the job.

[The359]

And I thought the Miraj was bad...

[GB]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/fc93ce072bb925022eebbc051bcc3bb50877b46e/c=56-0-943-667&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/2015/11/14/DetroitFreePress/DetroitFreePress/635831332326905318-2016-Toyota-Prius-01.jpg



Are we sure that's not someone trolling us? Because.... holy shit.

Second, are they claiming this is an all new car? Because underneath all that.... whatever the hell it is.... the structure looks just like the current one. The roofline, glass, cowl, front doors... looks the same to me.

[Freude am Fahren]

That car makes me want to just say "fuck the Earth."

[TheBenior]

Second, are they claiming this is an all new car? Because underneath all that.... whatever the hell it is.... the structure looks just like the current one. The roofline, glass, cowl, front doors... looks the same to me.
I could see where you could think that. After all, this is Toyota, the company that now drags out platforms far longer than anyone else has the gall to.

Anyway, the new Prius is supposedly the debut of the new Toyota C platform, which replaces the New MC platform that the second and third gen Prius were built on, which itself was a revised version of the MC platform that dated back to original Prius in 1997. Toyota still plans to sell New MC based vehicles for at least a few more years, however, as the then-new-for-2013 Corolla and RAV4 were based on it. That'll give the MC platform derivatives a solid 20+ years of production.

[Crazed_Insanity]

To give Toyota some credit, at least this new Prius does achieve significantly higher MPG than the previous version. From 50 to 53mpg I think. The fugliness must have improved aero somehow? And also perhaps improved drivetrain. Anyway, #-wise, they improved it. Just too bad they visually fucked it up.

I haven't seen on on the road yet. Maybe it's just not very photogenic? :p

[pl8ster]

I wouldn't say that's "significant" if it's only 3MPG. Certainly not worth having to drive something that looks like that.

I don't know why a car company with such a successful model would introduce an update that is so objectively hideous, but I think there will definitely be people who will be excited that their new Prius is so, uh, *distinctive* so their eco-ness won't be able to be missed.

[21Kid]

Also... :erm:
http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/crop/3112x1755+358+581/resize/800x450!/format/jpg/quality/85/http%3A%2F%2Fo.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas% 2F20450930288d0a2210d275b39a95226%2F203229938%2Fsl ide_0004.jpeg

[Kchrpm]

I think there will definitely be people who will be excited that their new Prius is so, uh, *distinctive* so their eco-ness won't be able to be missed.
Exactly. There are so many people buying these kinds of things just so they will stand out. They don't care if it's "ugly".

[thesameguy]

I don't know why a car company with such a successful model would introduce an update that is so objectively hideous, but I think there will definitely be people who will be excited that their new Prius is so, uh, *distinctive* so their eco-ness won't be able to be missed.

Sales have been slowing and discounts growing on the Prius. Lots more competition and plenty of ICE engines that are crowding it from the bottom. Add in super-low fuel prices and Toyota is nervous. On top, I am sure I read somewhere that Prius loyalty is amongst the lowest in the business. Here is one article on the broad topic: http://www.edmunds.com/about/press/hybrid-and-electric-vehicles-struggle-to-maintain-owner-loyalty-reports-edmundscom.html but it's not the one I was thinking about. The '16 is, I believe, Toyota's way of trying something else to attract new buyers. Make a less boring looking vehicle so people can have the "Look at me, I'm green!" feeling all over again.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I thought I remembered reading they improved mpg by nearly 10%? So maybe they gained another 4~5 mpg. It's not a quantum leap, but significant improvement nonetheless.

Anyway, just can't get over the way it looks.

Look at me! I'm Shrek! :lol:


Also... :erm:
http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/crop/3112x1755+358+581/resize/800x450!/format/jpg/quality/85/http%3A%2F%2Fo.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas% 2F20450930288d0a2210d275b39a95226%2F203229938%2Fsl ide_0004.jpeg

This one I kinda like! Kinda remind me of the Faraday Future production car except their's is a bit longer and sleeker. Similar side rear view camera too. Wonder how well that works in RL.

[thesameguy]

I don't mind it at all, though it looks like either the Volt or Edge team got clearance for a concept car. I see both of them in there quite clearly. With new wheels, I wouldn't kick it out of the driveway.

[Reynard]

Eh, I think with some larger wheels and a strategic two tone paint job the Prius would be alright. For me the Juke is the one current car I can't get past it's looks whenever I see one (sorry Bryan ;)). To me it's just a big toe on wheels... callous' included!

[Jason]

Are we sure that's not someone trolling us? Because.... holy shit.

Second, are they claiming this is an all new car? Because underneath all that.... whatever the hell it is.... the structure looks just like the current one. The roofline, glass, cowl, front doors... looks the same to me.

They might be limited to that general shape due to aero dynamic optimization.

[Jason]

Also... :erm:
http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/crop/3112x1755+358+581/resize/800x450!/format/jpg/quality/85/http%3A%2F%2Fo.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas% 2F20450930288d0a2210d275b39a95226%2F203229938%2Fsl ide_0004.jpeg

Those mirrors don't seem very useful :lol:

That being said, I like it in general, it'll be interesting to see what it looks like once it's toned down for production. If they tone it down too far, it falls straight into pretty standard modern car design language. But if they keep a bit of aggressiveness, it'll definitely standout.

But isn't Mitsubishi all but dead here?

[Kchrpm]

They're not mirrors, there's a camera mounted in there and a screen inside for viewing the feed. Apparently a lot of cars have the side view cameras this year, easy way to make your car look more high tech without having to worry about actually bringing it to production.

[Jason]

They're not mirrors, there's a camera mounted in there and a screen inside for viewing the feed. Apparently a lot of cars have the side view cameras this year, easy way to make your car look more high tech without having to worry about actually bringing it to production.

I was figuring that, but made a joke anyways, whatever. :p

That being said, I don't think I want mirrors replaced by cameras anytime soon. Electrical gremlins are still much too common.

[Kchrpm]

Yeah, that's why I don't think it will happen anytime soon, but concepts gonna concept.

[CudaMan]

Jaguar F-Type S "loud noises" button makes one smile. Especially decelerating to a stop.

And there's way more torque than traction available. :lol:

[Random]

Upgraded rental?

[CudaMan]

First thing my CPA does when I walk into his office building this morning is toss me the keys to his new toy. :cool:

[Random]

Joke'll be on you when he gets into vintage 90s Corollas. :finger:

[Godson]

Nice

[thesameguy]

Yeah, that's why I don't think it will happen anytime soon, but concepts gonna concept.

:lol:

[TheBenior]

Door hinges are a common failure point in high mileage GMT900 Tahoe PPVs.

This becomes very apparent when the door starts contacting the front fender while being opened and closed.

[thesameguy]

GM's crap door hinges *have* to be a joke at the customer's expense.

[TheBenior]

The GMT900 PPVs were overall pretty solid mechanically. Very robust drivetrains, with very few transmission failures even with over 100k of hard urban police mileage on them. The Crown Vics, OTOH, frequently needed new transmissions between 70-80k. Seat cushioning has also definitely held up better than in the Crown Vics, and blower motor resistor failure isn't a problem like it was on Crown Vics.

They just let you down with odd things like door hinges, car stereo displays, and rear window defogger wiring. Oh, and the emergency controls were put in a steel box between the seats that could break your arm/ribs in a side impact crash.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, I just fail to see how all these years later GM forgot how to make hinges again. It'd be one thing if they strayed from the path and ended up with a bad design once, but GM's engineering halls *have* to be littered with every conceivable permutation of How Not to Design Door Hinges.

[Kchrpm]

Maybe some retirees took them home with them.

[thesameguy]

:lol:

"Collection of failed GM door hinge designs" is item number 34585 at the GM Heritage Collection Auction. I'll start the bidding at... $50.

[Freude am Fahren]

I want an M2 so bad right now.

[Leon]

Why, when I am basically waiting for an AE86 rally car that I have first "dibs" on when my friend retires from competition driving, am I looking at the prices of RX8's?

WHYYYYYY????

[Kchrpm]

Because you have a fever. And the only cure for that fever is more car horns!

[thesameguy]

Rotaries get in your bones.

[21Kid]

Because you have a fever. And the only cure for that fever is more car horns!

A+

[Godson]

Aston Martin V8 Vantage are getting 'cheap'

[Phil_SS]

Have you been following along with Doug Demuro?

Your 911 is a much more reliable everyday car.

[Godson]

I have watched a few. Nothing serious though. What's up?

[Freude am Fahren]

Why do modern day cars and bikes with throttle by wire still bounce off the rev limiter? Couldn't they just adjust the throttle down to hold the revs?

[thesameguy]

Not really, no. :)

[Phil_SS]

I have watched a few. Nothing serious though. What's up?

After about 50 days of ownership he had $5500 in bills. Now I guess you could have done the work yourself but still.

Not that I'm not interested myself. But I don't think it is the kind of car that would hold up or do well with daily driving especially when snow could be involved.

[GB]

1999 M Roadster

http://www.elitemotorcarllc.com/1999_BMW_M_Deland_FL_262847524.veh

What would be the pros and cons of this with the S52? If, hypothetically, one had an interest in it. ;)

[thesameguy]

Hilarious snap oversteer? :D

[Phil_SS]

Clown shoe or go home!

[thesameguy]

:lol:

[speedpimp]

Clown shoe or go home!

THIS!

[Alan P]

From what I've read and knowing someone that had one, although a long time ago, they're straight line quick but don't actually handle that well. The rear suspension is from the E36 AFAIK for example. I also believe that is the 'lesser' model, although it'll still do 0-60 in around 5 seconds.

Some of it may not be entirely relevant but UK Site Pistonheads did a buyers guide (http://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-buying-guides/ph-buying-guide-bmw-z3-m-coupe/24919).

[Random]

Cons:

Rear subframe tearout--known problem, known fix, but something to look for. If it hasn't been fixed, get it done.
It's not the "best version" (S54 engine, same as the E46 M3), as stated above.
It's not the coupe, as stated above. :D No Dorkfest for you!
General BMW/German/S52 car stuff. Care and feeding necessary.


Pros:


240 hp in a smallish roadster. :up:
I6 sound. :up:
S52s are a nice engine, IMO, even if we didn't get the sweet Euro version.
Reasonably good handling...a little tricky because power, short wheelbase, and E30 suspension (looser), but reasonable.
Semi-reasonable price, because not S54.


Side note: if you want S52 + wind in hair minus Z3 issues, the E36 M3 was available as a convertible.

[Random]

bimmerforums has a few threads up with common Z3/M issues, if you need some additional reading.

[GB]

Yeah, I had read some things before I posted in here. Welcome to my bipolar, high anxiety world: Where reality changes everyday!

I have no idea what I want. Old Miata? New Miata? 370Z? MRoadster? 944? Boxster S?

I think for my own well-being I'm going to stay away from Bimmers and Porsches.

[thesameguy]

Aw, man, you're not alone. When the only criteria is "fun" you have a lot seemingly conflicting options. (Obviously) there is no right answer - any of those cars will be a treat to drive!

[Godson]

Yeah, I had read some things before I posted in here. Welcome to my bipolar, high anxiety world: Where reality changes everyday!

I have no idea what I want. Old Miata? New Miata? 370Z? MRoadster? 944? Boxster S?

I think for my own well-being I'm going to stay away from Bimmers and Porsches.


I'll make you a hell of a deal on a 996.

[GB]

I'll make you a hell of a deal on a 996.
Define: "hell of a deal". lol

[Godson]

Define: "hell of a deal". lol

14.5k. Delivered.

[GB]

OOF.

You ain't kidding around. :eek:

I need to ruminate on this for a bit. I'm not sure I'm ready to own and care for a 911. I know what you've done for the car... and that is why I need to consider the offer. Gimme some stew time.

[novicius]

Want to see: Hellcat Charger + vinyl wrap of the Bluesmobile (rust and all).

[MR2 Fan]

Want to see: Hellcat Charger + vinyl wrap of the Bluesmobile (rust and all).

loudspeaker too?

[Godson]

OOF.

You ain't kidding around. :eek:

I need to ruminate on this for a bit. I'm not sure I'm ready to own and care for a 911. I know what you've done for the car... and that is why I need to consider the offer. Gimme some stew time.


No pressure. The thing is, I am having to work extra shifts to cover the cost of the addition of the Tuono. Needless to say, I'd rather work the extra to pay off student loans instead of making ends meet.

[Leon]

Going out as a regulations person, with the police on a boy racer operation, is interesting.

Saw a Hilux yesterday, and the following thought process had taken place.

This ute is too high, lets lower it.

Okay, bend shit out of the rear leaf springs.

Right. Now it is sitting on the bump stops.

Okay, take out the bump stops.

Axle now hits the chassis rails.

So they zip tie a flip-flop / jandal / thong to the chassis instead of bump stops.
http://coolshoes.co.nz/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/coolshoe_men_s11_original_black-800x533.jpg

Also had illegal window and tail light tints, a leaking fuel tank, one bald tyre, and one tyre down to the steel belts.

Driver was arrested for outstanding unpaid fines / other stuff. He wasn't what you'd call an upstanding member of the community.

[Yobbo NZ]

Then they wonder why the police "pick" on them.

[Leon]

they are indeed having quite the epic cry on their FB event post.

In their defense, we only found moderate illegal / dangerous on their cars. The very bad Hilux was a random find.

Mostly they were bald tyres, and driver licence condition breeches.

[Godson]

People piss me off.

[Freude am Fahren]

Chevy is doubling down on their Aluminum attacks in new ads against Ford. A few article have pointed out that while Chevy says it's an attack on Ford, not Aluminum, that's a tough sell, and interesting given rumors of the next Silverado being heavily Aluminum.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTm2F4ysQrE

The results of the test are hard to argue against though, assuming their not staged (maybe, maybe not). I'm sure a bed lining will help, I don't think most work trucks get those. Maybe Chevy will stick with steel for the bed?

[Kchrpm]

Maybe Chevy will stick with steel for the bed?
That's my thinking, too. They'll have some specific feature so they can continue that test/stunt, as it's the only one so far that's shown any simple difference between the two (IIRC the body panel strength and cost tests have been too close to call for any simple commercial, hence why they've only done that stupid cage "which one looks stronger" test).

[Phil_SS]

Nobody dumps a bunch of block into their truck. It's why dump trucks were created.

That and I'm willing to bet most pickup trucks on the road are not used for any kind of hard duty. Still a win by Ford.

[thesameguy]

You guys may be too young (HA!) to remember but back in the day Toyota used to run similar ads for the 1-ton version of their pickup. They'd show it stuntin around construction sites while various heavy equipment literally dropped heavy loads into the pickup. It'd shudder like it was about to explode then drive away like nothing happened. "Can't do that in a Chevy!" Guess things have come full circle.

A good friend of mine was a contractor til recently, and he always had a V6 Ram. He used to tell stories about people he worked with who'd bought the biggest, baddest trucks they could - based on sales pitches like that commercial - and quickly end up regretting it. Turns out the ability drop massive loads all at once into a bed is far less important than fuel economy. Kevin's puny little six was highly coveted. :D

I'd agree, Ford made the right call.

[Kchrpm]

Here's the question: did those people who bought the biggest, baddest trucks and then regretted it end up buying another big bad truck later? Humans have a tendency to realize their ego and emotionally driven mistakes and repeat them anyway.

[Godson]

What's funny, is Ford built SEVERAL of the prior truck bodies with the all aluminum bodies. The sold them to construction sites but didn't tell them. After the lease was up, Ford took the truck back, and nobody except Ford knew they were different.

As for the weight savings of 700 lbs, I feel Ford is doing everything to get the economy up as high as possible. And the normal truck NEVER sees that kind of abuse. Ever.

[thesameguy]

Don't know, but I guarantee you're right anyway.

Like Phil said, most of these trucks are criminally underutilized anyway, and very, very few are ever actually maxed out. IME, the people maxing out their vehicles most often are people with minivans. Around here dirt cheap old Caravans get gutted and repurposed into all sort of crazy things. The guy who picks up my scrap metal (I seriously have that guy) uses one. Ever seen a Caravan with three engines in the back? Ain't pretty.

[speedpimp]

Weirdest use of a Caravan I've ever heard about was at least ten years ago when a guy called into Bob & Tom and said he had used his Caravan to transport three miniature cows.

[Freude am Fahren]

It may have been an extreme example, but if you watched the tool box bit, that could be realistic (I doubt that box wasn't heavy).

Anyway, moving on.

Despite my car having this, I can't stand when all the rear lights aren't on the same plane. I almost had a CTS back into me because I never saw his reverse lights that sit about 1 foot above the ground. There are also some SUV's that have tail lights up on the rear pillars like you would expect, but the turn signals are down in the bumper. What the fuck is that?

[Leon]

Going out as a regulations person, with the police on a boy racer operation, is interesting.

Saw a Hilux yesterday, and the following thought process had taken place.

This ute is too high, lets lower it.

Okay, bend shit out of the rear leaf springs.

Right. Now it is sitting on the bump stops.

Okay, take out the bump stops.

Axle now hits the chassis rails.

So they zip tie a flip-flop / jandal / thong to the chassis instead of bump stops.
http://coolshoes.co.nz/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/coolshoe_men_s11_original_black-800x533.jpg

Also had illegal window and tail light tints, a leaking fuel tank, one bald tyre, and one tyre down to the steel belts.

Driver was arrested for outstanding unpaid fines / other stuff. He wasn't what you'd call an upstanding member of the community.

Now vehicle is advertised for sale or swap on a Facebook sale page. To be fair, it's a page full of mouth breathers, so it is entirely predictable.

No mention has been made of any of the faults, or that it is ordered off the road as unsafe.

Amusing considering I've added in photos of that ute in the Police road traffic training that I'm running tomorrow as a "dumb things you will see done" educational.

[GB]

You may have noticed that I change my mind about what I actually want pretty much every week. At least it's not every other day.

So this week I'm considering buying a Lemon. Not a Lemons racecar... an actual Lemon.

http://www.beachblvdautomotive.com/assets/inventory/photos/1745/jm1nc25f160100896-2.jpg

2006 6sp manual with about 100,000 miles, $4,988, Manufacturer Buyback Title.

http://www.beachblvdautomotive.com/used-Jacksonville-2006-Mazda-MX+5+Miata-SPORT+CONVERTIBLE-JM1NC25F160100896

I am defeated to the point that I don't think I'm advanced enough to build an actual race car, so I think I going to sell my Z31 track car (and the Z31 turbo donor car), and get a car I can have fun with around town (complete with creature comforts and A/C) and also have a blast with at Track Days. I have sold my SPG, so I have cash money hanging around in my sock drawer. I could pay cash for this car, put on a Hard Dog rollbar, nice wheels, sticky tires, and coilovers and still have plenty left over. And that's before I even go through the hassle of putting the ZX's on Craigslist.

Yes, it's officially a Lemon. That's why it's $5000 instead of $9000. But I figure the buyback happened in its first year of life or so. Now it has 100,000 miles. It MUST run, right? You don't put 100,000 miles on a car that's in the shop all the time. So, for what I want it for, it could be a great deal.

I don't know. It's an hour and a half away in Jacksonville, so I need to spend a lot of one of my days this week going up there to check it out. And then I'd have 2 cars in Jacksonville, so Drew would have to drive one back to Daytona for me. (You could walk back home, right ;) )

Anyone ever bought a car with a Buyback title before?

[thesameguy]

I generally agree with your hypothesis, but I would find out why it was bought back. That information should be available either from Mazda (call customer service with the VIN) or your motor vehicle department. I really think it would be worth knowing before dropping five grand.

[Random]

Aside from the lemony aspect, you'll want to find out which of the available roll-bars for the NC are actually accepted by your local track(s).

Hard Dog's bar is really nice and integrates well with the car, but doesn't have any obvious fore/aft support, which will likely throw up a red flag. Flyin Miata comments on that here: https://www.flyinmiata.com/nc-hard-dog-sport-double-diagonal.html

Goodwin Racing has a couple other options that they claim are 100% legal for SCCA/NASA. One of them doesn't allow use of the factory softtop, though.

[21Kid]

I'd be very careful about it... I got Ford to buy back a Lemon that I had. It had nearly 20 k miles after 1.5 years.
Manufactuers would MUCH rather pay the dealer/mechanic to fix it instead of buying it back. So, if they couldn't figure it out, I'd be pretty concerned.

My problem was intermittent, and the dealer couldn't rectify the problem after numerous visits... which is why there were so many miles. Something similar could be up with that one. I'd make 110% certain they found and fixed it, for good.

[Kchrpm]

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/21/2018-nissan-juke-hybrid-possible-report/#slide-3625035

New Juke to get Murano-like styling (good thing, I think the Murano is gorgeous), a new platform, a longer wheelbase, and a hybrid setup (so it can hit emissions requirements).

[novicius]

Where do I turn in my balls?

I'm really digging the specs & reviews on the 2014+ Ford C-Max Hybrid. Definitely thinking that it'll be my girl's next daily (42 MPG & seats 4 adults + 3 toddlers legally).

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/08/01-2013-ford-c-max-hybrid-fd.jpg

Maybe I should turn in my glasses too? :lol:

[Kchrpm]

Sports car + hybrid family mover for the wife seems quite reasonable. My current perfect garage is a Vette and a Pacifica hybrid.

[Godson]

Where do I turn in my balls?

I'm really digging the specs & reviews on the 2014+ Ford C-Max Hybrid. Definitely thinking that it'll be my girl's next daily (42 MPG & seats 4 adults + 3 toddlers legally).

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/08/01-2013-ford-c-max-hybrid-fd.jpg

Maybe I should turn in my glasses too? :lol:

Mom has exactly that vehicle. Literally am extremely impressive vehicle. Call me if you want more info on my thoughts.

[Random]

Does it actually get 42mpg? I thought Ford caught some flak and had to derate the fuel economy on those?

[novicius]

It was downgraded from an EPA-assigned (via loophole) 47 MPG.

[thesameguy]

I really like the C-Max conceptually, but it's so ungainly looking it'd be a hard sell even to me. But I don't have a specific application. With a family to move around? I'd have a hard time choosing anything else. It's eminently practical, and I like that.

[Godson]

Parents have been consistently pulling mid 40s. Fuelly's data tends to support this.

[novicius]

Yep, although rated at 42 MPG City, many owners have repeatedly hit 45 MPG.

[Random]

:up:

[novicius]

Mom has exactly that vehicle. Literally am extremely impressive vehicle. Call me if you want more info on my thoughts.
Oh very cool Ty but I'm not buying anytime soon. :D :up:

I was noticing their stats, the 7-passenger seating and the decent handling reviews -- and then I noticed how hard the depreciation hit is.

Kayser Ford Lincoln of Madison:
2014 Ford C-MAX Hybrid SE (37K miles) for $14.5K (http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=431691740)

Monticello Ford of Monticello:
2014 Ford C-MAX Hybrid SE (12K miles) for $14.5K (http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=430452854)

[thesameguy]

Ouch.

or

Yay!

[Drachen596]

so.. Buy used?

[novicius]

Definitely "Yay!!" for me. :up: :up:

[21Kid]

Yeah, why is that a negative. ;)

Question: Why do they make the back of fold-down seats fabric?
Why not make them plastic, so you don't have to worry as much about them when hauling stuffs? :?

[Kchrpm]

That's a good question. I can't think of a reason, other than if the fabric is cheaper, but I doubt it is.

[Drachen596]

i thought Chrysler had plastic backed its fold downs in their minivans or at least had plastic protector bits for them.

[Godson]

Depreciation hits these hard because most people think of a hybrid, they think Prius are the only real option.

Ford's advertising is what has hurt this vehicle I think

[thesameguy]

Could be right, although I think the Fusion Hybrid does ok....Prius definitely has The Name in hybrids.

[CudaMan]

My dad's Forester has an option or dealer accessory rubber/plastic cargo mat that has pieces for the back of the rear seats as well. Once installed, it integrates nicely in either the upright or folded position. :up: Like this (http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback13-seatbackprotector2.jpg).

[Freude am Fahren]

My mom's Outback had that too :up:

[Random]

Those rubber mats work nicely as fuel spill catchers in pit lane at the 25 hr, fyi. :D

[novicius]

Pontiac G8 GXPs are *ridiculously* overpriced. It's a seven-year-old car! :lol:

[Kchrpm]

It's a very rare, desirable car to people in that market. They only sold 1829 of them, and until the Chevy SS there was not another car like it in the US.

[novicius]

Heh, the same thing will happen to the SS. #unobtainable

[Kchrpm]

Maybe. The SS has already sold more than 7,000, but that is of course still a relatively tiny number.

[21Kid]

It's a very rare, desirable car to people in that market. They only sold 1829 of them, and until the Chevy SS there was not another car like it in the US.

What is desirable about them? I haven't paid any attention to Pontiac in decades.
For that price you could get a M3 or a STS-V... or a Corvette. Why would someone want a G8 instead?

[Kchrpm]

The STS-V never had a manual transmission, the M3 is smaller (and a BMW, and German), the Corvette is a two-seater. The G8 (and SS) are the "attainable" V8 family car that enthusiasts claimed they wanted for years/decades. It's a budget M5, a layperson's CTS-V, whatever.

I'm not saying that's a huge market (look at the sales numbers), but to the people in the market it's a rare combination that is highly sought after. They're what you get if you want a Corvette but have to have 4 doors.

[thesameguy]

I would think the Charger and the G8 were two sides of the same coin. Granted the Charger never had a manual option, but I don't think many of those 2000 G8s were manuals. At the time, the G8 had a much nicer interior than the Charger (and my CTS-V, womp womp) but the current Charger is damn nice inside.

[Random]

Charger was quite a big bigger, wasn't it? It certainly LOOKS huge. (TWSS)

[21Kid]

The STS-V never had a manual transmission, the M3 is smaller (and a BMW, and German), the Corvette is a two-seater. The G8 (and SS) are the "attainable" V8 family car that enthusiasts claimed they wanted for years/decades. It's a budget M5, a layperson's CTS-V, whatever.

I'm not saying that's a huge market (look at the sales numbers), but to the people in the market it's a rare combination that is highly sought after. They're what you get if you want a Corvette but have to have 4 doors.I guess that's why I was confused. They aren't budget priced, if they cost more or the same.

[thesameguy]

Charger was quite a big bigger, wasn't it? It certainly LOOKS huge. (TWSS)

Not much... 2008 Charger R/T vs. 2008 G8 GT

Width (in.) 74.5 in. vs. 74.8 in.
Height (in.) 58.2 in. vs. 57.7 in.
Length (in.) 200.1 in. vs. 196.1 in.
BodyStyle Sedan vs. Sedan
Number of Doors 4 vs. 4
Curb Weight 4100 lbs vs. 3995 lbs
Wheelbase 120 in. vs. 114.8 in.
Track Front 63 in. vs. 62.7 in.
Track Rear 63.1 in. vs. 63.3 in.

4" in length, not what I'd consider a big difference once you're into 4000lbs monstrosities. :)

Edit for Interior:

Standard Seating 5 vs. 5
Front Leg Room 41.8 in. vs. 42.2 in.
Maximum Seating 5 vs. 5
Front Head Room 38.7 in. vs. 38.7 in.
Rear Head Room 36.2 in. vs. 38 in.
Rear Leg Room 40.2 in. vs. 39.4 in.
Front Shoulder Room 59.3 in. vs. 59.1 in.
Rear Shoulder Room 57.6 in. vs. 59.1 in.
Front Hip Room 56.2 in. vs. 56.7 in.
Rear Hip Room 55.5 in. vs. 58 in.

[Kchrpm]

Granted the Charger never had a manual option, but I don't think many of those 2000 G8s were manuals.
That's the thing. The G8, when introduced, was promised as a 4-door, RWD V8 sedan that would be available with a manual transmission for under $30,000. A portion of the internet (myself included) erupted with excitement.

Then came the first year of production and sales, and no manual transmission. It would come in the second year, we were promised. And it did...sort of. It only came as an option on the G8 GXP, which cost $10,000 more because it also included a more powerful engine and better suspension. The bits we were promised existed, but not together.

So how many of the 2000 GXPs were sold with manual transmissions? It's possible that most people only bought them because it was the only way to get a manual. There wasn't much visual difference between a GT (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/2009_Pontiac_G8_GT_sedan_01.jpg/800px-2009_Pontiac_G8_GT_sedan_01.jpg) and GXP (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/2009_Pontiac_G8_GXP_01.jpg).

The 300/Charger is close, but definitely a larger, softer vehicle. It's an everyman's S-Class/Bentley/7-Series, whereas the G8 (and SS) felt, to magazines and those of us who fell in love with them, like the everyman version of the 5-series/M5.

Of course, the used market has effed with the prices. There are people who still think quite highly of them, and the vehicles are so rare, that I'm sure it's keeping the prices higher. Arguments can be made that, as an American car that shares a lot with the Camaro, it will be easier/cheaper to fix than a similarly priced M3. I've no idea if that's actually true, but I'm sure people are shopping for these things emotionally rather than rationally. I know I would be. I had to keep myself from driving an orange GT because I knew, automatic be damned, I'd fall in love behind the wheel and make a rash decision.

[Kchrpm]

4" in length, not what I'd consider a big difference once you're into 4000lbs monstrosities. :)
The difference really was the promised manual transmission. To a lot of people, myself included, it's a big deal.

[thesameguy]

That's the thing. The G8, when introduced, was promised as a 4-door, RWD V8 sedan that would be available with a manual transmission for under $30,000. A portion of the internet (myself included) erupted with excitement.

This, for sure!


The difference really was the promised manual transmission. To a lot of people, myself included, it's a big deal.

HUGE. I couldn't agree more - it can't be overstated!


The 300/Charger is close, but definitely a larger, softer vehicle. It's an everyman's S-Class/Bentley/7-Series, whereas the G8 (and SS) felt, to magazines and those of us who fell in love with them, like the everyman version of the 5-series/M5.

This I am not so sure about. I test drove Charger R/T, CTS-V, and G8 GXP all within 24 hours of each other, and my only clear recollection that swayed me towards the G8 was the quality of the interior... definitely superior to the other two. In terms of driving, I can't make an exactly fair comparison because the Charger was an automatic, but there wasn't a significant difference in tautness between the R/T and the GXP. The CTS-V was definitely the, um, sportiest. It also weighed 250lbs less than the other two and saved me a few grand so it got the nod. I've driven every M5 from E28 to E60 and I wouldn't put a G8 (or the CTS-V, or the Charger) in the same category. Whatever shades of grey exist between the domestics exist, the M5 is a whole different car. Far more comprehensive, and it all works together much better. All the domestics feel like muscle cars - passenger cars with big motors. The M5s have always felt more like sports cars that comfortably seat four - at least among their contemporaries. I doubt an E28 M5 would feel like a modern sports car. :lol:

[Kchrpm]

The automatic in the RT I drove was SO lethargic, though, it made the whole car feel sluggish and boat-like. It was such a disappointment. I have a feeling that just having a slightly stiffer suspension and a good manual transmission would be enough for myself and others like me (ie non-refined tastes: I've never driven a 5-series of any kind) to put the GXP far ahead of any Charger. The CTS-Vs, and frustrating pricing, definitely make things more confusing.

And we haven't even gotten into the segment of the US population that just plain liked Pontiac/Pontiac-styling. The people that saw the GTO and loved everything it did, but thought it looked too boring. The people that saw the 5th generation Camaro in 2009 and immediately asked when they were going to build a Firebird. The people that bought Grand Prix's instead of cheaper Impalas. It wasn't enough of a thing to keep the brand around, but it was a thing.

Again, I'm not saying the prices on GXPs are justified. I'm just explaining why they are what they are. If you can find a similar CTS-V for the same price, it's likely to be a demonstrably better car in every way. Since when has that sold a car to your average person?

[thesameguy]

That is really weird about the Charger - that transmission is a Mercedes part and is generally quite good although famously recalcitrant about downshifting, so maybe that's what you're referring to. A long time ago I read a comparison of the XJR (Mercedes 5-speed) and the E55 AMG (Mercedes 5-speed) and the reviewer commented on how much better the AMG version felt. That suggests it's not the transmission but the programming... so maybe your concerns could be addressed with software.

I too lamented the boring GTO styling and the ultimate death of Pontiac, and I can definitely see why people would cherish the G8, but that just furthers my belief that the G8 enjoys impressive resale value due to ethereal qualities, and not because it's actually a better car. In 2009, I easily could have gone in another direction, but in 2016 choosing between an high-priced orphan car or a pair of admittedly differently but well-supported cars, I could never choose a G8. Just the thought of having to buy cosmetic parts for it makes me queasy. You could put a 1st gen CTS-V or Charger into a tree and then, like, just get another one. :lol:

[Kchrpm]

that just furthers my belief that the G8 enjoys impressive resale value due to ethereal qualities, and not because it's actually a better car.
That's exactly what I've been saying :) There's a large group of people who fell in love with it when it came out, and have just not given up on it. So many cars are sold because of this. SO MANY.

Perhaps my love and adoration for it made that not clear *re-reads his posts* yeah, that happened :) Sorry!

[novicius]

'12-'14 R/T's with under 45K miles are priced at $16-20K.

Compare that to an '09 G8 GXP stick car going for $30K+? Nothing but emotional decisions going on there.

[thesameguy]

Meh, no worries. I never mind an analytical discussion. Sometimes you learn or uncover things you wouldn't have otherwise. Like the fact that despite being bigger on the outside, the Charger is smaller on the inside. :lol:

I'm still mad at GM's decision to kill off Pontiac. I get the whole China thing, but Buick is 100% bullshit domestically and IMHO Pontiac had the superior name and product for most of the last 30 years. They should have let Pontiac stay and do their thing and just put marshmallow suspension and Buick badges on China-bound ones.

Totally unrelated, is it just me or is widely accepted that Toyota has the best made up car names? Most domestics use real words, most Euros use alphanumeric designations, it's mostly the Japanese that use made up names. And despite largely having the cars which impress me the least, Toyota's names are reliably natural and enduring. Weird.

[thesameguy]

'12-'14 R/T's with under 45K miles are priced at $16-20K.

Compare that to an '09 G8 GXP stick car going for $30K+? Nothing but emotional decisions going on there.

Pretty soon SSs will be cheaper...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/5646640704.html

I guess E60 M5s already are...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/5712810548.html

And maybe Vipers.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/5700759438.html

[Kchrpm]

But they're rare! That means $$$!

Cheap SS's are good for the world :up:

[thesameguy]

It does mean $$$ for sure. Just not mine. :) My measure of a car is entirely based on the cost:performance ratio, and a $30k GXP is doesn't tick any boxes on that worksheet. :D

[novicius]

Mine either -- but I thought I'd check. ;)

[Kchrpm]

Yet there are people out there who think the number of cars made with a particular color is a reasonable thing to put in the auction listing of a 60 year old car. *shrug* Car enthusiasts are a strange bunch.

[thesameguy]

I'd definitely put it on a for sale ad. That's good marketing! :D

[Phil_SS]

Like any car that has low production numbers a Pontiac G8 GXP with a manual will always be a valuable car. Especially ones with low miles. They only made around 850 with a manual. Some colors like my favorite (Pacific Slate) they made 45, and 20 of those had a manual. How many Hemi Cudas in certain colors were made. I'm sure it is way more than 20.

For those of us that are Pontaic officianados it is the last great Pontiac. It's no different than a TT Supra or a 1st gen NSX or an air cooled Porsche 911. They all represent something you can't get anymore. And it is a chance to own a piece of History.

Edit: Another car that IMO will only appreciate in the coming years is a Pontiac Solstice GXP coupe with a manual. They only made like 230.

Edit2: Newer M5s are very meh. Regardless of their performance. And cost to keep them running are atrocious. So I'd much rather pay for a G8 than a M5. M5 isn't anything special. E39 M5 being an exception for coolness but it's long term reliability scares the crap outta me. They have notorious weak spots that can only addressed through spending chunks of money every few years. Anything with a SBC will be easy to get parts for and keep running for many years

[MR2 Fan]

Yet there are people out there who think the number of cars made with a particular color is a reasonable thing to put in the auction listing of a 60 year old car. *shrug* Car enthusiasts are a strange bunch.

The 1993 MR2 that I owned was in Turquoise Pearl and only around 300 in that color were imported to the U.S.(a 1993 only color) :p

[thesameguy]

Like any car that has low production numbers a Pontiac G8 GXP with a manual will always be a valuable car. Especially ones with low miles. They only made around 850 with a manual. Some colors like my favorite (Pacific Slate) they made 45, and 20 of those had a manual. How many Hemi Cudas in certain colors were made. I'm sure it is way more than 20.

I don't know. I can name a lot of cars with low production numbers that aren't worth shit. A handful of them are in my driveway. I can also name cars that were made in the bazillions that are worth a fortune.

I don't think production numbers are ultimately a foundation for determining a car's value. Maybe a factor, but obscure does not equal desirable. As often as not, obscure means undesirable.

[JoshInKC]

I always thought that mindset was kinda weird. I mean, it'd be pretty neat to have the 1 of 1 Panther Pink Hemi Barracuda, but certainly not neat enough to push the car's value way up in my mind.

[21Kid]

Meh, no worries. I never mind an analytical discussion. Sometimes you learn or uncover things you wouldn't have otherwise. Like the fact that despite being bigger on the outside, the Charger is smaller on the inside. :lol:

I'm still mad at GM's decision to kill off Pontiac. I get the whole China thing, but Buick is 100% bullshit domestically and IMHO Pontiac had the superior name and product for most of the last 30 years. They should have let Pontiac stay and do their thing and just put marshmallow suspension and Buick badges on China-bound ones.

Totally unrelated, is it just me or is widely accepted that Toyota has the best made up car names? Most domestics use real words, most Euros use alphanumeric designations, it's mostly the Japanese that use made up names. And despite largely having the cars which impress me the least, Toyota's names are reliably natural and enduring. Weird.
Agreed on the 1st & 3rd point.:D The 2nd is definitely curious. I saw plenty of those "That's a Buick!" commercials during football, and they do seem impressive. But, they still have that "Old-Person car" link that I don't think they're ever going to be able to shake.

I'd look at them if I were in the market though. I remember the same thing happening when I was in high school. A few of my friends had them because they had low miles and were well maintained, because they were driven by someone's grandma. :lol: And they were quite cheap.

[thesameguy]

I always thought that mindset was kinda weird. I mean, it'd be pretty neat to have the 1 of 1 Panther Pink Hemi Barracuda, but certainly not neat enough to push the car's value way up in my mind.

I imagine things would change somewhat if I were an actual car collector, but since I want to buy a car to drive a car, it being the one pink one isn't going to improve my experience. one iota. But the pink Barracuda is more valuable because Barracudas are already valuable... not because it's 1 of 1 pink cars. I've owned 1 of 400 Alfas, 1 of 300 Saabs, and one of 1700 Cadillacs and nobody gives a flying fuck. :lol: The car has to be innately desirable first, then rarity of options factors in. Even last-generation GTOs are pretty rare and they aren't worth anything. Something about the G8 definitely caught traction - possibly like the Solstice Coupe, although I'm not 100% convinced that's going to stick. Maybe, though... "The last good Pontiacs" have to be worth something!

[thesameguy]

Agreed on the 1st & 3rd point.:D The 2nd is definitely curious. I saw plenty of those "That's a Buick!" commercials during football, and they do seem impressive. But, they still have that "Old-Person car" link that I don't think they're ever going to be able to shake.

I don't disagree, but I do think it's weird. Hyundai never ran a "That's a Hyundai!" ad - they just started making desirable cars and people figured it out. I think if you have to advertise like Buick is, you've already missed the boat. What Krunch said in Phil's thread is probably right here - they should have made an AWD GS with a manual (they had all the pieces from the 9-3 XWD!!!) and then followed that up with some snorty Lacrosse or something. One half-hearted sports sedan amidst a sea of meh is not going to convince up and comers to strap on their grandpa's brand. TBH, in spite of what I just said, they probably should have never made the Lacrosse. Everything the Regal suggests is totally undone by the sheer existence of the Lacrosse. It's a god damned Century, and don't you dare tell me it's not. 201x Buick is out Chryslering 200x Chrysler.

[novicius]

Well keep in mind that these Buicks aren't for you (read: U.S. tastes). Those are car designs meant to appeal to the largest single auto market in the world now.

The fact that they're also sold here is practically a side-effect. :lol:

[Kchrpm]

You know, I have no idea what China's penchant for performance cars is. I know they like big flashy things like Ferraris, but I've no idea if they follow Europe and Japan's interest in rally/drift/mountain-friendly performance cars. I guess judging by the cars we're seeing built, the answer is no.

[thesameguy]

Well keep in mind that these Buicks aren't for you (read: U.S. tastes). Those are car designs meant to appeal to the largest single auto market in the world now.

The fact that they're also sold here is practically a side-effect. :lol:

I absolutely don't doubt this, but I've never seen it stated anywhere, either. I feel like Buick is trying domestically, but it's absolutely possible they're not.

[novicius]

Yeah I still maintain that the six-speed is the anomaly. ;)

YW would be able to tell us more.

[TheBenior]

Buick is basically under the same pressure as the remaining near luxury brands (IMO, Acura, Volvo, Lincoln, and what VW has tried to be), plus the old person stigma.

Mainstream brands sell some pretty nicely equipped cars these days, as even Chevy's compact is no longer a penalty box.

The growth of leasing (more than half of all luxury sedans these days (http://blog.caranddriver.com/the-most-commonly-leased-car-brands-in-america-and-the-most-commonly-purchased/)) and CPO programs has made outright luxury brands more accessible to more 'buyers.' With ze German cars, it also eliminates the worries of pricey out of warranty repairs for the first two buyers.

[novicius]

GM sales in China rose 17% in May (http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2016/06/03/general-motors-china-sales-may/85338332/).


Buick sales rose 61% to 100,864 vehicles, with nearly half of those (47,332) the Excelle family sedan. Sales of Buick's SUVs and what, in China are known as multi-purpose vehicles climbed 24% from May 2015.
100K vehicles is far from a million Camrys but it should be enough to keep Buick around for awhile.

Article about Buick in China 2015. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2016/01/20/thats-a-buick-in-china-unlike-the-u-s-theres-no-doubt/)


It might sound surprising to American ears, but 2015 was the best year for Buick in the car make’s 112-year history... Still, Buick managed to sell 1.2 million vehicles worldwide last year, a third consecutive sales record.

And that’s thanks to China.

Eighty percent of all Buicks are sold in China these days. Last year, that amounted to nearly 990,000 vehicles – 4-1/2 times as many sold in the United States.
I don't think they need a rally car. ;)

[novicius]

...now I do think that Regals are overpriced. :lol:

[thesameguy]

100K vehicles is far from a million Camrys but it should be enough to keep Buick around for awhile.

Curiously, it wasn't enough to save Saab.

I think GM thought that Buick was going be a foothold in the Chinese market that would let them be the Chinese American Toyota GM and that hasn't panned out. They're just a low volume near luxury niche brand just like Saab was or Volvo is. Fail. We lost Saab and Pontiac so GM could sell 100,000 Buicks. Lame.

[novicius]

(I think that was 100K sold in 1 month.)

[thesameguy]

Oh.

Shit.

:lol:

[Kchrpm]

http://jalo.ps/zBqJr0N

Chevy Colorado ZR2 looks pretty good.

[thesameguy]

I don't want to jinx it, but it does seem like GM got the new Colorado right.

[21Kid]

Seems like they have been doing quite a few things right lately.

[novicius]

$50K USD price tag, IFS and no V8 means these will be the go-to trucks for the Home Depot/Lowes set. :lol:

[Godson]

I don't want to jinx it, but it does seem like GM got the new Colorado right.

Except for the fucking price. Z71 is 35k

[thesameguy]

Srsly? I guess I don't know what a loaded Tacoma goes for, but I don't imagine GM is being non-competitive here. I can buy seven Suburbans for $35k, so the chances of me ever thinking about buying a new Colorado is zero. Maybe even negative. Like, I am affecting potential sales to other people.

[Godson]

Base price gets you Extended cab, 2wd, and the 4cyl BASE is 21k.

You put 4wd and it jumps to 28k because you can't get 4wd in the base form, you need to upgrade to the WT.

Seriously though, go look at the configurator on chevy's site.



THis is the reason I bout a 2012 F150 Platinum for less than I could get a Z71 Colorado for.

[Godson]

I built the "Ultimate" Colorado, and ended up at 48k. And that doesn't even get you leather...

For a midsized Truck.

4k more gets you the 207 F150 Raptor, with more bells and whistles, and better towing.

[speedpimp]

And another 10-15 gets you into a top of the line 1-ton dually diesel.

[thesameguy]

What's great about all this is that it's a bunch more things that I don't even need to think about buying!

[drew]

I have an itch......

I've got a bullseye on Boulder CO right now, 2013 Audi TTRS with 11,500 on the clock, un-modified. It started life as a lease vehicle (until 2015) in PR, then shipped over, the current owner has had it since.

From the pictures, it looks fairly flawless.

I don't know if I'm in the "brave" mood to do a $40000 purchase "unseen", but I would be willing to take a weekend and go see it, then ship it back if it worked out.

Link (https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=513415497&listingTypes=USED&startYear=2013&makeCode1=AUDI&modelCode1=TTRS&sem=1&LNX=DRMEDFBDAAFIXELMED&k_clickid=b8534870-6f04-4243-8326-fb05667abd1e&fbclid=IwAR051LLN5nZ3Fr89P1iRXDdXAQXAuv1J2icvE0YFZ I32a7O_jC-V3YJY1u0)

That, or spend $6000 and supercharge my Si.

[dodint]

That's funny. There currently is a TT RS that's doing real well in One Lap of America and it's starting to raise eyebrows. Funny I've seen it referenced twice in the same week.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEGGBiiW4AA9itB.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEFZdauXkAAqBv5.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEFZda3XUAAnZmy.jpg

Sorry, but what the merry frig is this BMW 4-series concept all about? Messy sub-Lexus toss with a cock awful waffle iron glued to the front. Is this the point we have to stage an intervention in the BMW design office? (https://twitter.com/sniffpetrol/status/1171364752225910786)

You know what it is? An Infiniti Q60 crossed with a rabid beaver. (https://twitter.com/ajpbradley/status/1171366023934730241)

[George]

I think the front looks says Alfa Romeo and the sides and rear look more like something from General Motors.

[neanderthal]

The gaping maw look is awful,no matter who does it.

[CudaMan]

What's with German auto manufacturers actively trying to screw up normalcy? :lol: Idunno how many decades of classy kidney grilles now suddenly dropped in favor of Ohmygawditshideous. Change the grille and the 4-series concept is a beautiful car. BMW already diluted the ///M brand something fierce, which was bad enough.

And Porsche... how dare you use the word Turbo for your Taycan EV. Words mean things. A turbo is an actual thing, not a vague concept of something powerful. Damn alternative facts.

I'm really GetOffMyLawn about this but it's true and it pisses me off!

[George]

And Porsche... how dare you use the word Turbo for your Taycan EV. Words mean things. A turbo is an actual thing, not a vague concept of something powerful. Damn alternative facts.

I'm really GetOffMyLawn about this but it's true and it pisses me off!

Seriously? They're using Turbo like Sport or GT or Z28 or Twister Special? That's seems almost insulting to their customers if so. They aren't selling Hondas or Chevies or Rascal scooters. Their customers are car enthusiasts!

Nice rant, by the way. https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/old.gif

(I wonder who we'd have to ask for a smilie like that for this forum in blue, to match the others here)

[Kchrpm]

I was watching a YouTube channel's video preview of the Taycan and they reminded me that consumer electronics have been using "turbo" to describe their high powered/temporary boost mode for years, so it's a bit of full cycle silliness.

[MR2 Fan]

Lexus must be feeling great, they're no longer making the ugliest looking front ends (other than the LC500) in the luxury segment, thanks BMW!

[SkylineObsession]

Almost bought an SL55 AMG yesterday (almost, as in i started seriously thinking about whether i could afford it, and looked into how much repayments on loans would be). It's the only Mercedes i've ever been interested enough in to actually consider buying - even if i was a multimillionaire.

It would have eaten up most of my savings (wouldn't want to spend them all just incase), and i would have had to take out a $15-20k loan, to be paid back in 5 years. But i'm not sure how much longer my job will be safe for, so in five years time i could be either unemployed again or on a much lower wage. :( It was also silver in colour, not the brightish red i want it in.

Goddamn it man, hope next time an opportunity like that popped up i can actually get it. :smh:

In saying all this though, i started thinking about buying a Mack Ultraliner a month or so ago, but literally have no room for it and it required a bit of work for road legalness and appearance etc i'd say. I also don't have a truck licence. ;)

I think the solution is to stay away from auction websites. :lol:

[dodint]

I text Tyler stuff I know he craves just to mess with his head. ZR-1s, Vipers, Italian stuff. Auctions are great.

[Godson]

It is true.




Nate, fuck you.

[Rare White Ape]

I dunno about you guys, but I think the Koenigsegg Gemera is the best car to be revealed at the "Geneva motor show" that didn't happen this week.

It is absolutely nuts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5VN-MI1mZA

[Phil_SS]

Is it bad for me to think. This COVID lockdown is gonna lead to smashing good deals from dealers.

[dodint]

Not sure if I have mentioned it here but all of the V10 cars I have been watching are tumbling in price.

The catch, of course, is every day of quarantine is one day longer with the city house and its mortgage. :(

[Godson]

Ford is currently offering 0% and 84mo on all leftover 2019 stock.....

[Freude am Fahren]

7 year is a looong time. But at 0% who cares, I guess?

[dodint]

I always take a long loan term and then payoff early. At 0% it is a no brainer.

[Leon]

I usually buy older cheaper cars, because in NZ the depreciation curve vs the interest on car finance doesn't make for pretty reading.

Pulling numbers out of my bum, a mortgage interest rate here is like 5% ish (now down to the 3% and change mark), while car finance is typically at more like 15-17%. Other than super special deals on some cars, which crop up rarely. This might be different after the lockdown lifts, to get some cars off yards. Right now, you can absolutely NOT buy a car, dealers shut down locked down, along with 90% of the rest of NZ.

[speedpimp]

Doubt my local has a '19 FiST left in stock. Then again my '16 was financed at 3.9%. Only two years left to pay.