Politics

[Crazed_Insanity]

Again, I’m gonna give credit to both sides for our deepening divisiveness. It’s always crooked Hillary, sleepy joe and now lying Kamala… similarly from the left, the right is racists, not just Trump but pretty much the entire MAGA base! Those racists are a huge threat to democracy!

Well, guess what, my MAGA neighbor is not a racist. At least he doesn’t discriminate against us Asians. They even willing to try out Asian beers that I’ve given them. :p He also knows that I’m not a Trump supporter.

I know Kamala is probably best at attacking Trump, but this time, I hope she’ll also remember the working class. Trump picking Vance is clear indication that he’s trying to reach the working class folks. I really think Kamala needs to channel Bernie Sanders a bit more. Return the democrats to the average people.

Besides free abortions and sex change operations and more unisex bathrooms, what else can you offer the average American people? If you do this part well, people might over look about how we’re financing forever wars abroad.

For me, im sure Kamala will continue the same Biden policy. I really do like Biden and I even voted for him, but the 2 new forever wars was really disappointing. Either he’s unwilling or unable to negotiate peace for the region. Either way, it’s not good. I think Trump will do better in this area.

[Tom Servo]

Well, this is all going swimmingly.

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:pf6un43ea7kfljs4ftb4u4hc/bafkreig3xj54pkt3pvypocmgrmmahgjqo2yd2ce6kq5bpjgpt zu3iyrshm@jpeg

[Yw-slayer]

I think it's a weird bit they're doing. Everyone seemed to be able to handle saying her name right for years and suddenly there's all sorts of weirdness, I think it's on purpose.

Now you guys know what it's like when the cnn anchors used to go "BAY-JING!!!"?

[Crazed_Insanity]

What's wrong with BAY-JING? I thought that's the correct pronunciation? It used to be PEKING!

Anyway, I really think people at the left are a bit too easily offended. Why not just give people the benefit of the doubt? Even if people are purposefully mispronouncing my name to disrespect me, why should I give a fuck?

Important thing is if Kamala wins, who cares if they couldn't pronounce her name?

If Beijing is a great city, who cares how a CNN reporter mis-pronounced it?

If they want to sound dumb, I suppose they have the right to such free dumb speech.

[21Kid]

Yeah, my only reservation about Buttigieg is my doubts about my fellow Americans. I really like him and would be thrilled with that ticket. Buttigieg has been great in a role that is normally reserved for people who just want a paycheck.

A woman of color President and a Gay VP? :lol: As much as I love Pete, I don't think that people are ready for that. I think Mark Kelly would be a good choice.

I hope Pete can be President some day. His demeanor, and attitude are great. I love how he destroys the haters with facts and statistics while not coming across as mean. He's got a really good heart too. #Pete4Prez

[FaultyMario]

Now you guys know what it's like when the cnn anchors used to go "BAY-JING!!!"?

What? What's wrong about this (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/File:en-us-Beijing.ogg)?

[George]

Waiter, I'll have the Peking Duck, please.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You're a racist George!!! :angry:

Regarding VP, Mark Kelley seems nice, but that leaves a senate seat open in AZ... are we confident that AZ will have another dem senator?

Getting the Mexican Senator from CA is probably a safer bet. You have all the race cards lined up too.

Pete would be okay too. I had no problem with his gayness, like I've said before, I thought he's a heir apparent to Bernie Sanders, but I was wrong though. Considering that he worked with the DNC to derail Bernie's bid, because of THAT, I'd never vote for him for anything.

If Kamala gets Bernie's endorsement and at least pay lip service to the American working class, I would consider voting for her, even if she has Pete as running mate. However, I get the feeling she doesn't care for Bernie's endorsement. I also don't think she really cares about the average Americans.

It's good that the left is so happy and enthusiastic about Kamala, but in all honesty, I don't understand why though. Hillary is the better woman in terms of qualifications and experiences and even she lost to Trump. Exactly what part of Kamala that's better than Hillary that she'll be able to easily defeat Trump? I really don't get it.

She's younger and without an email server I guess. I think the only thing I'm happy to see is that finally we're kicking out a boomer and GenXer is ready to take over! All boomers in DC can just retire okay? Bernie can retire too if he's not going to run for president... enjoy your later years rather than wait until you're incoherent and then people ask you to leave. :p

[Leon]

Mark Kelly has pretty good name recognition. Which weirdly seems to be more important than actual competence*

*not dissing Mark Kelly, I only know him as an astronaut, and know zero about him as a politician.

[Yw-slayer]

What? What's wrong about this (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/File:en-us-Beijing.ogg)?

That particular pronunciation is acceptable. Butchering it by saying BAYY-JJING is not.

[FaultyMario]

I guess I haven't heard the butchered version.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, YW, can you record and butchered version and the correct version so we can hear the difference?

If a non Chinese person can say BAY JING, I’d think he did a superb job. What do they have to say in order to not piss you off? :p

北京？

[Crazed_Insanity]

Obamas have endorsed Kamala. I guess that means Michelle for sure won’t run and Barrack has no other schemes left in his pocket. Harris should be the candidate for sure.

Now, if she wants my vote, she better go get blessings from Bernie soon.

[Yw-slayer]

I guess I haven't heard the butchered version.

Be thankful!

[MR2 Fan]

IF the media covers this properly (Big IF)....Trump just ended his campaign with this statement "You have to get out and vote. You won’t have to do it anymore. Four years, it will be fixed, it will be fine. You won’t have to vote anymore.. In four years, you won’t have to vote again." then he said "I'm not Christian"

So in 2 sentences he basically said he's going to 100% become a dictator, there will be no more elections and also that he is not Christian (for some reason)

https://x.com/Acyn/status/1817007890496102490

[Rare White Ape]

Out-of-context it feels like he's saying you won't have to vote for him because he's done his part to fix all of America's problems and it doesn't matter who you vote for next lol.

Or... wait... was that actually what he's saying and people are drawing long-ass bows?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think we’re hearing different things.

“I’M A Christian!” (What I heard)

“I’m not Christian!” ( what you heard)

At least based on context of the clip, it makes no sense for him to say what you heard.

It also sounded like he’s specifically talking to Christians like me who’s not voting. Fixed or not, I’m likely not voting anymore because it’s pointless. If he fixes it and let democracy works properly, then I might participate again.

Anyway, I can assure you that most MAGA supporters I know do not want Trump as a dictator. If Trump does become one, 2nd amendment will be put to good use. I’m also sure our military personnel won’t go along with a dictator in chief. Civil was might break out but I don’t believe USA can survive and become a dictatorship like North Korea or China.

[MR2 Fan]

Out-of-context it feels like he's saying you won't have to vote for him because he's done his part to fix all of America's problems and it doesn't matter who you vote for next lol.

Or... wait... was that actually what he's saying and people are drawing long-ass bows?

If it hadn't been someone who tried to install fake electors, urging governors to "find" votes for him and causing an insurrection, sure you could question his intentions.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Two can play similar games.

If we could unburdened what had been done by the DNC, we could’ve had either Bernie or Pete running for reelection now.

Granted, Obama’s way of finding support for Joe was way better than Trump. No argument there.

[Tom Servo]

I definitely took it as attempting to say "I'll fix everything and then you won't need to worry about it anymore," only he's a very stupid man whose brain has melted.

[Tom Servo]

One great thing about the severe brain worms that Trump has is that he literally cannot ever say he fucked up, so now he's trying to pretend like he wasn't just a weirdo when bringing up Hannibal Lecter the first time and he's hell-bent on trying to make it seem like it was on purpose, which he will never be able to do.

It's so colossally weird and yet he is wholly unable to make it less weird, it will only escalate.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oh com’on, if people could only learn to unburden what weirdness had been said by Trump, then they’ll be able to understand what MAGA could be! Hopefully the passage of time will reduce political polarization in a significant way and come to the realization that both parties are a threat to democracy. Well, maybe that bullet unburdened Trump’s moral indecency and made him become the good president that he could be?

Btw, I think Bernie has formally endorsed Kamala, so I will give her my vote, reluctantly…

I didn’t like it after 4 years of Trump and Biden. I’ll give Kamala a chance, but my expectation is more of the same of Obama/Biden… to me that’s more wars abroad, but we will have more rights for women and minorities and ‘illegal’ immigrants while average US citizens continue to suffer and MAGA movement will likely come back stronger?

Will Kamala ease this tension or perhaps Trump will?

From my point of view, I think BLM protesters probably caused more destruction than the MAGA insurrectionists. Also blue lives should be easier on white protesters? So perhaps it’s better to have Kamala in power rather than an old white guy.

My current State of WA will likely go blue anyways... so pretty sure my vote probably won't make much of a difference... the more I think about it, our 2 party system really is a threat to democracy. We really should have rank choice voting and then select a final 2 running against each other regardless of party affiliation. Oh well...

[G'day Mate]

I watched the whole NABJ interview. What a train wreck. Apparently Trump's handlers pulled him off half way because it was going so badly for him.

So then I check to see what Fox news thought of it. Wonderful apparently, because he stuck it to the interviewers. They didn't play the actual question he was asked of course, just clips of him complaining. It's so dishonest :smh:

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, that was a pretty spectacular shitshow from him. I doubt he won over anybody new, and at some point he'll have to do more than just pander to his base.

The journalists did a much better job of pushing back on his nonsense than usual, though, so I did appreciate that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Had to search it up on YouTube about it. Shitshow it was. I only watched the beginning 1st Q&A and really lost all motivation to continue. Trump was lame as usual, but that black lady in blue was really representative of blue, huh? Asking such a long hostile rhetorical questions as her 1st question.

Trump was not very presidential and the journalist, at least that very 1st blue one, was not very journalistic…

However, regardless of how and why Trump was there, if you are a white supremacist, would you show?

Would Hitler show up at a Jewish journalists convention?

I’m more convinced that RFK jr is a Nazi, but I’m still not sure about Trump. He really didn’t have to show. I think he at least showed up in good faith.

I think populist type politicians tend to like to appear on medias of opposing sides. Bernie Sanders appeared often on Fox news compared to many other typical democrats. Pretty sure Fox viewers would likely never vote for Bernie, but most populist candidates do want to attempt to reach across. I think appearing at NABJ was Trump's attempt. Clearly most black folks won't attend MAGA rallies. The fact that Trump showed up earned me some respect. Although I have to agree that whole interview was difficult to watch. I'm still not voting for him. I wish the 'journalists' could be a bit more 'neutral' or in a '3rd person' perspective. Journalists shouldn't just be grilling the interviewee... dig out more facts or more explanations... and be less judgmental. No need to act like a prosecutor... Just show us all available 'evidences' and let us the viewers make the final judgment.

If you really want to embarrass the guy, doing it in a more friendly and gentle way probably could achieve better results. I think I'm a pretty 'neutral' observer and I have to agree with Trump that blue lady was pretty rude. Most people might think Trump deserved it... sure, but as a journalist, she was not very professional.

Given the shitty situation, it's only natural that each side end up reporting all the shit going on on the other side.

Reality was that it was just shit hitting the fan and it got on both sides.

How can each side be 'honest' about all the shit that went on? Naturally each side would hide their own shit and then just report the other shit.

It would've been better to treat Trump in a friendly way with respect and then perhaps asking him a series of leading questions... and then prove once an for all he's a Nazi or something and then we can stop him and force RNC to come up with a new candidate... I'd appreciate that better. As it is, it's just unprofessional journalist bickering with an unpresidential former president. Learned nothing new.

[Rare White Ape]

I see people calling this the final season of the United States TV series, but I disagree.

Netflix is about to renew it for another four-season run.

[Tom Servo]

Axios seem to be confirming that the main part of him taking the stage over an hour late at the NABJ interview was him demanding they not fact-check him while the NABJ saying they were absolutely going to or the interview wasn't going to happen. According to them, the head of the org was in the process of writing up the statement he was going to give announcing that the interview would not be happening because he refused to be fact checked when Trump finally decided to take the stage.

I'm surprised he did, normally he would just not take the stage and scream later about how they demanded to fact check but he knows all their "fact checks" were just going to be liberal lies or something.

They're also saying that he was supposed to do an hour but his team called off the interview about halfway through. I'm guessing that's when they realized the laughs he was getting from the crowd weren't people laughing *with* him.

https://www.axios.com/2024/08/02/trump-nabj-fact-checking-black-journalists

Also, just read something that the "calling him and JD Vance weird" thing is getting under his skin, but that was in a paywalled article so I won't link it here. But apparently he's pretty mad.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's interesting NABJ's entire team 'stood their grounds'... as if Trump was going to invade them?

Wasn't that NABJ's stage?

Was Trump invited by them or did Trump forced them to have a MAGA rally on their stage?

It doesn't make sense for Trump to hold rally there without their permission. So I have to assume that Trump was invited.

When you invite a 'guest' over, do you typically have to stand your ground and make sure the guest won't harm you?

As journalists, naturally you want to be able to fact check things. If Trump team refused and wish to compromise your journalistic integrity, then forget about the interview then.

At least at the beginning, I heard Trump saying he was expecting Harris to be there as well... was that a lie too?

Anyway, it's mind boggling to me why Trump would agree to this interview.

Like I said, the only take away I got from this shitshow was that I don't think Trump is a white supremacist because of this incident. There's really no good reason for Trump to show up. He must've also gave up on the demand of no fact check, right? He could've never started the interview, right? So the fact that he sat on that stage showed some level of good faith.

NABJ had to hold its ground and not let anything slide was an amazing statement. Is that how they treat all of their guests or whoever they're interviewing? What did they hope to accomplish? Embarrass Trump? I guess mission accomplished. However, is that what journalists suppose to do?

If you're super blue and hate Trump, I suppose you'd cheer for that blue lady and thought she did a good job.

If you're team red, naturally you will be pissed.

I'm team purple... and I'm just sad to witness all that. Seriously, what was the point? You invite a 'guest' over and then burn that bridge down and claimed victory! Yeah, we stood our ground! Yeah!!!

Maybe I'm missing something? I never knew about NABJ. I didn't know how nor why that interview even happened. I also did not watch the entire thing... and chose to 'walk away' even faster than Trump...

Seriously, am I missing something? Do you guys think that interview has any value?

It would've been better if it were like an informal debate between Trump and Harris..., but with Trump as the sole guest person on stage... this is how you treat your guest?

[Tom Servo]

In another sign that the news outlet Bloomberg sucks, they proudly announced they were "breaking" the story about the prisoner swap with Russia, but they were actually breaking the press embargo that everyone had agreed to - one that was mostly meant to make sure that the people being allowed to leave Russia were actually safely on the ground and no longer on a Russian controlled airplane possibly in Russian airspace. WSJ's own reporter was on that plane and they waited until they spotted him on the ground in Turkey and off the aircraft before reporting it.

A lot of press embargoes are stupid, like not sharing movie reviews until the movie is already out, but this one was actually pretty important. Bloomberg may have fucked themselves pretty good here.

[Leon]

Wow, that's a truly stupid move by Bloomberg!

[FaultyMario]

I'm guessing that's when they realized the laughs he was getting from the crowd weren't people laughing *with* him.

So you needed three women of color to bring this buffoon down?

White men can't... they can't do much, really.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, pretty much. They definitely did the best recent job of holding his feet to the fire, or at least giving him enough rope to hang himself.

[FaultyMario]

Early one morning...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlkpr8UIyc

[FaultyMario]

It's 11:59, my time...

Google hasn't doodled about James Baldwin's centenary.

I ddin't expect the matrix to.

[MR2 Fan]

Outside of U.S. politics for a moment...been watching the happenings in the UK after the Southport stabbings....extremely horrific event and lots of right wingers are rioting since from what I'm seeing when they didn't release the name of the culprit...people led to believe it was a muslim immigrant when it apparently wasn't (technically) an immigrant but a kid born in Wales........to Rwandan parents who went to church and that he is autistic.

Sigh :(

[Tom Servo]

Saw some of the headlines saying that anti-fascist protestors clashed with "other protestors", which I gather may be due to libel laws in the UK which are not, say, as protective of speech as the ones we have here, but I enjoyed this response to that headline:

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:aizt7s6qn3gudkkfredlsz7o/bafkreifemrj7qup2m7drjt6q56eretnqina3wcjqc3oo7xhs3 swutebvv4@jpeg

[FaultyMario]

I heard that a bunch of EDL types went to Blackpool this weekend in the hopes that they could gain membership from among those attending the Rebellion Festival.

Fascists went looking for Punks, hilarity thus ensued.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUKksPjXMAAuXfI.png

[FaultyMario]

Do you know what black bloc anti-fa scists do when they organize?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA8EfboSud8

That's right, they serve their communities by sweeping the fascist garbage off the streets.

[FaultyMario]

It's amazing that a society can suddenly become so polarized.

"Suddenly".
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUHlsDGW4AAvZhB.jpg

[MR2 Fan]

Ironic, when I was looking up who the owner of Daily Mail was:

"Daily Mail owner looks to Middle Eastern backers over Telegraph bid"

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/sep/07/daily-mail-owner-lord-rothermere-middle-east-telegraph-bid

[Tom Servo]

The Daily Mail in a nutshell.

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:b4rznyfwb4l4nxkzpjpaxlfa/bafkreibxqtrt74r2bp54bna7clybub7h33kjwxan73kutyjzm acf3z54ea@jpeg

[Yw-slayer]

Billi's brainwashed bros: gogo western mainstream media free press "uncover truth"!!!

[Rare White Ape]

Do you know what black bloc anti-fa scists do when they organize?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA8EfboSud8

That's right, they serve their communities by sweeping the fascist garbage off the streets.

SOME people may see this clip and take special note of the 'left wing violence' and equate it to the behaviours of the EDL participants, thus successfully both-sidesing the argument and failing to grasp the point all in one post.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Some people? Who? Me?

[Kchrpm]

Also outside the US: the situation in Venezuela is rough. The current leadership seem to have lost the latest election, but refuse to admit it, instead claiming they won in a landslide. Some other countries are demanding they release proof, but not enough of them, and they seem to be hoping they can just wait it out until people stop complaining.

[Yw-slayer]

Now imagine that UK rioting taking place pretty much every weekend in Hong Kong, but with far more liberal use of molotovs, kicking innocent people out of "banned/boycott" businesses, including and building up to the occupation and shutdown of Heathrow, then multi-day occupations and conversion of two university campuses molotov-making factories, and (at the same time as the campuses the other) two major Interstate Highways or the M4 then the M40, and Friday night shutdowns of the (usually efficient, quick, and vital) public transport system including one of the most efficient metro systems in the world. Also liberal use of stupid propaganda from people being used but who think they are in a movie or re-enacting Dunkirk because they walked away from their occupation of the airport, and Donald Trump is their hero. And a few deaths.

Other stuff too, but my PTSD is calling.

[Rare White Ape]

We got a situation in Bangladesh as well where military rule has been enacted.

Copy-pasted from another forum:


So this probably isn't going to go anywhere but a friend in Bangladesh wanted me to tell you guys about some of the stuff going down in his country because they're blacking out the internet there over anti-government protests. The protests started because of a government jobs quota that promises 30% of all the jobs in the country to children of people affiliated with the ruling party. The protests are mostly student-led, with conflicts between pro-government and anti-government student bodies and teachers. The official death toll is 193 including 2 police officers, but the unofficial death toll is estimated to be above 1500. They have been using the police to break up protests and have threatened to bring in the military to back them up, along with blacking out internet access, there have been over 10,000 arrests made. The U.N. is aware and they're making demands of the Bangladeshi government but he wanted me to spread the word among the "westerners" I know to try and get the word out.

[FaultyMario]

The current leadership seem to have lost the latest election, but refuse to admit it, instead claiming they won in a landslide.

A similar claim can be made of the United States, but at the reverse of that situation.

On the hours after the Venezuelan election, there was calmed response from the White House saying they wanted to wait for proof that everything went along fine. A couple of days later there was a fiery press release from the Department State declaring Edmundo Gonzalez the winner of the election and demanding the usual demands. This has not been the first time that Blinken's public releases go against a more moderate Biden position. It happened when the Ecuadorian armed forces stormed the Mexican embassy in Quito, with Blinken promoting a "both sides" narrative of what was an outrageous violation of international law and the Vienna convention.

So, yes "other countries" have asked for proof of a normal election, including a friendly but strict joint declaration by Brazil, Mexico and Colombia*. But at the same time, the opposition parties who had declared themselves the winners on election night failed to show up to court to present their evidence when they were asked to, and on the days after the election there was a sabotage campaign aimed at disrupting the routes of the acts and tallies back to the electoral institution.

Could the government have orchestrated the sabotage to make the documents lost? yes, but it also could have been an attempt by the opposition to tarnish an election they knew they had lost.

Muddy waters indeed.

[MR2 Fan]

The U.S.'s historical involvement in South American politics is pretty disturbing to begin with, so anything the U.S. representatives say will always be met with suspicion.

[Tom Servo]

Not nearly of the same consequence, but this RFK Jr. thing with the bear cub is...absolute what-the-fuckery. Per "kilgore trout" over on Bluesky: “a kennedy telling roseanne how he left peter lugers to go dump a dead bear in central park he had found on the way back from falconing in the hope of framing bicyclists” is the sort of sentence that should serve as conclusive proof ai can never compete.

https://www-cbsnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/rfk-jr-admits-dead-bear-cub-old-bicycle-central-park-10-years-ago/

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think that's probably under the influence of brain worm? :p

I'm just glad Trump survived that assassination because otherwise we might end up with violent street protests too.

Clearly people all around the world are unhappy about one thing or another. That's why 'globalism' fell apart.

Hope we can all at the very minimum return to 'normal' like Hong Kong did eventually.

Wish America could be a shinier example of democracy though. America has been manipulating elections and installing her own 'elected' dictators world wide... of course we didn't succeed all the time, but we did interfere. Some of them even came back to bite us... such as Bin Laden and Hussein.

Even at home, we are only allowed to vote on 'approved' candidates, not really the candidates we want.

If there's no meaningful reform, our democracy probably won't last very long.

Of course I also do believe Putin and Xi's dictatorships will be even shorter.

In the mean time, gonna have tough times ahead I guess.

In a mad mad world, I guess I feel so lucky we have Kamala Harris to lead our way! ;)

OTHO, if we have mad man Trump, he might end up making Amierca great again, but he also might destroy America.

Should I choose to drink pee or eat poo? Man, it's so hard to choose...

[Rare White Ape]

I read that RFK Jr was also planning on eating the bear.

[Tom Servo]

That was one of his claims. He does seem to have a penchant for eating weird things. Guarantee one of his falcons has become dinner at some point.

My single favorite part of his statement is that "I wasn't drinking, of course", and that it was just he was convinced it was a good idea by all his drunk-ass friends.

[Yw-slayer]

ONE MIGHT WONDER why, for example, the BBC is suddenly happy to give ample space to views from government and law enforcement authorities in their own backyard, rather than FOR EXAMPLE AND ON OTHER OCCASIONS ONE MIGHT HAVE IN MIND simply repeating the rubbish spewed by rioters like Billi's Brainwashed Bros. HMMMM YES ONE WONDERS INDEED


Rival protesters are facing off in Plymouth, where Devon and Cornwall Police say "arrests are ongoing" after a police van was damaged and officers were met with "a level of violence"

Prime Minister Keir Starmer earlier announced a "standing army" of specialist police officers to ensure the police can respond to further disorder

More than 370 people have been arrested since the unrest began last week, the National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC) said

The NPCC said it expects "that total to rise each day", adding: "Work is going on around the clock to do this"


Police have warned protesters in Plymouth that anyone committing criminal offences "will be dealt with robustly".

In a post on social media, Devon and Cornwall Police says officers are at the scene of a planned demonstration in the city.

It says: "Our officers are well trained to maintain public order and we have suitable resources and plans to deal with any outbreaks of disorder.

"Our approach to this operation was to enable peaceful protests, but people who are intent on committing public order or criminal offences, will be dealt with robustly as such behaviours will not be tolerated."


The head of the National Police Chiefs’ Council has refused to rule out asking the home secretary to bring in extra powers to deal with rioters if violent disorder continues.

Gavin Stephens told the BBC he’d had “supportive discussions” with the government and would consider “all available measures”.

When asked if the police had lost control of the situation, he acknowledged that the "scale of savagery and attack” that unfolded had “stretched police over the weekend,” but pledged to provide thousands of extra officers and specialist recourses into tackling the ongoing disorder.

The government has promised an extra 2,000 public order-trained officers on top of the 4,000 mobilised over the weekend.

Stephens described the rioting as the worst violence he’d seen in over a decade and warned those responsible that they would see justice.

“Now is the time for this to stop. There’s no reason for people to be on the streets. Yes there are grievances, people see and hear those grievances but let's be clear, this is crime".

Oh look, sympathy for LOCAL law enforcement officers! As opposed to those ones who live in OTHER PLACES who were dealing with weekly riots that were far more violent, life-threatening, and damaging to property. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM YESSSSSSSSS ONE WONDERS WHY


Officers working extended hours and missing rest days to help tackle the riots are likely to become "fatigued", the Police Federation says.

Tiffany Lynch, the federation's acting national chairwoman, says that some officers will have never experienced such violence before.

"We know of recorded injuries where we've had broken bones, concussion and such like.

"But we're also seeing that these officers are working extended long hours and with the level of violence that they're facing, they will be becoming fatigued at some point," Lynch tells Times Radio.
Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham says police have a "strong plan” to deal with violent disorder in the city and had "maintained control throughout the weekend”.

Burnham says people have been brought before the courts today on charges related to the disorder, and that will continue “for the remainder of this week”.

“Criminality is criminality,” he says in a statement, adding: “If you break the law you will face the consequences”.

The rioters want to make the unrest "something it has never been before", Burnham says, “where people fear for their safety going about their everyday business".

“We must not and will not let them prevail," he adds.

What about implicitly endorsing the creation of a specialist anti-riot task force when the same was criticised abroad?

Or only putting out "good news" and pictures of people cleaning up debris and voicing anti-rioter opinions?


We've just heard from the prime minister, who says it's been agreed by ministers and police chiefs to deploy - what he called - a "standing army" of specialist officers to tackle the unrest that's taken place in the UK since a stabbing attack last week left three children dead.

He didn't explain exactly what that meant but condemned the disorder, saying it is "not protest, it is violence". He also said his government will ensure everyone involved is brought to justice.

Earlier, South Yorkshire Police said 12 members of the force were injured over the weekend and officers are working tirelessly to identify anyone who's been involved in the unrest. "We will find you" is how Asst Ch Const Lindsey Butterfield put it. Merseyside Police said 23 of its officers were also injured over the weekend, having been hit with various objects.
... (The South Yorkshire) assistant chief constable says bricks, fence posts, branches, and "other missiles" were thrown at them.

She adds that police dogs suffered minor injuries and horses were spat at and had objects thrown at them.

In the places where these latest protests were held, residents are cleaning up the debris and voicing their opinions. Meanwhile, we're continuing to bring you the latest news lines and reaction - stay with us.

What about how they only quote from people in their own backyard being scared from rioters trying to break in and cause trouble, while ignoring the same WHEN IT HAPPENS ELSEWHERE?


People who were inside the Holiday Inn Express in Rotherham when rioters descended on it over the weekend say they had to push fridges and other furniture against a door to create a makeshift barrier.

A shaken hotel worker, who did not want to be identified, describes the experience as "absolutely terrifying".

A man who lives near the hotel says anyone trying to justify the violence is "an absolute joke".

"It is just young hooligans trying to find any excuse to cause trouble," the man said. "There’s no reason for them to be here, they’re just a waste of life, waste of fresh air."

ONE WONDERS if this differential treatment could have anything to do with some sort of bias. SURELY NOT???!!!

ONE WONDERS if it might be the case that the self-anointed purveyors of The One And Only Truth aka the "Independent Western Free Press" report on events in their own backyard one way, while their reporting is entirely different when it concerns "Other Places Which Are Not Our Place", and "Other People And Systems Who Aren't Really The Same As Ours"?

ONE MIGHT WONDER if there are ANY OTHER RECENT EXAMPLES OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS of a similar approach being taken by such media claiming that there are "riots by a disaffected minority of local criminals" as opposed to "protesters for freedom in a far-away land being oppressed by the police state"?

[Tom Servo]

Bloomberg has attempted to take corrective action after posting the prisoner swap story early and breaking the press embargo. In doing so, they appear to have fired one of the reporters on the byline.

Reporters generally do not choose if/when stories get published, they research, investigate, and write the stories. Editors usually decide when and if to publish. The reporter herself has put out a statement to this effect, that part of her duties was not when a story was published or even if it gets published at all, that she has had stories written that never saw the light of day.

Nice job, Bloomberg, repair your already shoddy reputation by what appears to be scapegoating a reporter while the editor involved goes on to be shitty another day.

[Tom Servo]

I have verified that this is real: https://twitter.com/NYCSanitation/status/1820475639213830439

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:on5oeywiqx32fh2zau473wz6/bafkreibialqdcnlabtpu73noyimsxlo2wbgbfblccpme3qdk6 ly7comuny@jpeg

[FaultyMario]

They (the right wing media) have tried to paint him as ineffective.

I'm not a consumer of MSM. I kind of follow transport news (https://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2023/06/07/once-a-leader-in-urban-rail-investment-the-united-states-now-trails/), though.

[MR2 Fan]

Looks like its official: Kamala's VP Pick is Tim Walz and I'm quite happy with that pick. He has TONS of experience, military experience, congressional experience and governor experience and brings lots of progressive policies AND gives the impression that he can talk across the aisle.

Shapiro had too many red flags as it relates to Israel/Gaza IMO

[FaultyMario]

He's sixty? he's just sixty?

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, he seems fine. I was leaning Mark Kelly, but then again it's probably because I didn't really know much about the other two.

I'm guessing the angle of attack from the right will be the perceived chaos in Minneapolis that happened during the George Floyd protests. I mostly say that because when Michele and I went to a party at a friend's place in Tempe, AZ, and we told someone there we were going to Minneapolis for vacation, he told us to make sure we brought firearms with us.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wonder why/how Hillary and Kamala picked their VPs.

Both picked a white guy with little national recognition. What happened to DEI? No Latino representation! :p

Personally I was hoping for Bernie Sanders. Or perhaps Pete or Amy. Or some latino... AOC perhaps?

But of course, it's probably better to play it safe. This is the typical thing to do for Dems... to be vanilla, the lesser evil.

[Tom Servo]

Man, you'd think the Trump campaign might have used the past couple of weeks to have three specific fundraising emails with direct criticisms of each of the possible VP picks ready to go, but nope. Generic "this person is sooooooooo liberal!" email with a {{ vp_pick.full_name }} template directive at the top. I guess at least all of the potential pics were men so they didn't have to put in a pronoun template directive too, that might have been too much work.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUTRMJiWUAAYhq6?format=png&name=900x900

[Cam]

That's so sad it's hilarious.

[MR2 Fan]

Kamla? I thought it was Kambala

[Tom Servo]

Worse, apparently it's Kamabla. Which...what?

[Kchrpm]

Tim Walz said he supervised a high school lunchroom for 20 years. If that's not preparation for dealing with Congress, I don't know what is.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

[MR2 Fan]

He might look older than he is, but he can still go on big amusement park rides I won't go on anymore :p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S233kqP0ak8

[Tom Servo]

Heh, a friend of mine was saying that he thought Walz was a mistake because he'd bring age back into the conversation again. We were both surprised to find out he's a whopping six months older than Harris.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Kamala does look young for nearly 60! Walz for sure looks much older than 60! It’s all in our genes I guess.

Both VP picks really don’t move the needle for me though. I don’t really know them before and not sure if I will really care to know them in the future?

One + for Walz is that I saw an article saying that it was him who started ‘they’ look weird trend on social media. If they can succeed by making them look like a couple of weird orange looking sofa fuckers, maybe they’ll be able to win it.

[FaultyMario]

Vote for Open Mic Dad?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2MF0qWRS7g

hell yeah!

[Crazed_Insanity]

The man gave a pretty good speech! I can’t wait to see the 2 vps debate too. I used to think Vance will kill Kamala, but, it’ll be more fun to see those 2 white dudes duke it out.

Kamala will probably have a better shot debating the incoherent Trump…

Anyway, looking fwd to the debates.Hope for more substantive debates rather than childish name calling though… so the vote debates should have more potential…

[sandydandy]

Some Canadian political news...

A dude in Ontario got himself arrested after posting online death threats towards Justin Trudeau. Here's a link to his FB: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61551569423985

Nutjob city for sure. Publicly threatening to behead someone on your social media is a new level of stupid. Hey I don't like Trudeau either, and myself and likeminded others will (hopefully) get rid of him the right way by voting him out. This guy is suffering from some type of mental illness. I almost felt bad for him until I saw his other rant on his FB about Chinese and Indians, so he's a typical little racist runt who believes his life sucks because of immigrants. So he can go fuck himself.

[Tom Servo]

Surprised (not really, Facebook sucks at moderation) that his profile hasn't been taken down yet. Kinda glad we don't have a monopoly on that type of person.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This immigration issue really doesn't need to be so polarizing. Pretty sure majority of conservatives are only against 'illegal' immigration, not all immigration like that nutcase.

However, the left seems to want to paint the entire right as weird and nutjob racists.

Likewise, the right thinks the lefties are crazy to turn a blind eye on all the 'illegal' activities... whether that's guarding the border or guarding the store or letting homeless just camp and sleep and take a piss/dump wherever they want...

Surely we can strike a right balance between to 2 extremes?

However at least for the US, doesn't look like neither presidential candidates will be trying to unite the nation... :(

[sandydandy]

He seems be one of those freedumb bozo types that terrorized our capital with their trucks a couple of years ago. Here in Canada there's plenty of hatred towards Indians and Chinese (more towards Indians because there's been a mass influx of students in recent years). Legal or illegal, it doesn't matter to the racists. The closest comparison I can give is the way Mexicans/Hispanics are hated in the US.

There's a new anti-Indian hate campaign going on in Southern Ontario, where Indians are being accused of defecating on beaches. It all started on TikTok or Twitter where this one girl posted that she saw it happening. This has caught on like wildfire and we're the butt (or anus) of all shitty jokes. Keep in mind there's no actual proof or evidence that this is going on, just the word of one person. Officials have come out and said the same, that's there's no evidence whatsoever. Racists absolutely believe it because it's what they want to believe. Others have posted clever AI videos and propaganda of old Sikhs shitting by gas pumps and in other public places like parking lots. It bothered me to the point where I wanted on engage on Twitter but then pulled myself back as I realized it's an unwinnable battle when you're arguing with bots.

I think most people who believed it have wised up and realized they've been fooled. Hey, I believed it too at first.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyone could become a target of hatred. That just can't be helped. Even the Son of God was hated and they ended up killing him. So to expect never to be hated by others is probably not a very realistic expectation! :p

What we need is solution to problems. I just don't see politicians on both sides willing to solve actual problems. Clearly red states have their red problems and blue states also have their blue problems. Making the entire nation either red or blue won't solve all of our problems. Blaming and hating the opposition also won't solve our problems.

I just wish "United" States can live up to its name. I hope Canada will get better too...

Clearly there are problems all around the world not being solved and more are piling up and people are getting more and more upset...

[G'day Mate]

So Georgia have passed some law where election officials who used to have to rubber stamp the results can look at it and go "hmm, I'm not too sure about that"?

There's going to be a whooooole lot of nonsense post election if the orange baby doesn't win.

[MR2 Fan]

So Georgia have passed some law where election officials who used to have to rubber stamp the results can look at it and go "hmm, I'm not too sure about that"?

There's going to be a whooooole lot of nonsense post election if the orange baby doesn't win.

At least it's being publicized along with other insane things Georgia specifically is doing like opening a website where you can easily remove people from voter registration with just a few pieces of information :rolleyes:

I think Georgia is turning blue, but it looks like all of their tactics might keep it red unless there's some legal wins against this crap soon.

Oh, Also Elon opened his own PAC for voter registrations, but in swing states it doesn't actually work, it just LOOKS like it does.

[FaultyMario]

Nagasaki defies pressure from G7, will keep Israel away from US bombing commemoration event (https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/nagasaki-defies-pressure-from-g7-will-keep-israel-away-from-us-bombing-commemoration-event/3298295#)


Suzuki’s decision has drawn wide support, particularly among young people.

Japan does not recognize a Palestinian state but hosts the General Mission of Palestine in Tokyo.

The deputy chief of the Palestinian mission will attend the Nagasaki event.

Citing “security reasons” if Israel was invited, Suzuki said he hoped the event would be “conducted smoothly under a solemn atmosphere.”

“I will continue to persevere and ask for understanding of the decision as often as necessary," he said.

On Tuesday, peace activists held demonstrations against Hiroshima, where the local government invited Israeli officials to its event.

[Tom Servo]

I'm not sure I actually think this is a good thing, but this is definitely the first time I've seen a screenshotted @dril tweet in a presidential candidate's press release.

https://bsky.app/profile/joshuajfriedman.com/post/3kzaadp2uej2x

Link to full release (it does appear to be the actual release, even if the site does some unusual formatting for it):

https://www.insidernj.com/press-release/harris-campaign-donald-trumps-very-good-very-normal-press-conference/

[MR2 Fan]

Some people are talking about whether Tim Walz is like Hillary's VP pick Tim Kaine....and I was like "who?".........I literally could not remember anything about Hillary's VP pick at all...he was so out of the picture.

Tim Walz has already gone a lot further I think.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Even within such a short timeframe, I have to agree Walz is more interesting than Kaine.

I'm fascinated by Walz's net worth. Supposedly the man owns no stocks, bonds and not even real estate!

How can a man in his position never have financial advisors recommending various investments? Surely he must've deliberately to not want to invest? Why?

Of course if he owns lots of stuffs that's just not under his name, then it's a deal breaker for me. I don't want such a scheming person as VP or P. However, if he has good reason to live the way he's living now, I'd like to know more...

This kind of lifestyle is more like Bernie Sanders or Mike Pence types... was definitely not expecting Walz to live such a boring and simple life.

[JoeW]

I am enjoying how much they are trying to shit on the military backgrounds of each VP when the Presidential candidates have zero military background. I mean jeezus people…

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey, Jeezus had no military experience too!

He doesn't fight with swords or guns, but with love! :p

[MR2 Fan]

Rumors are implying that part of the reason Trump isn't campaigning in a lot of places is because he never paid the bills from previous rallies at those places.

Also, it seems he isn't paying the fuel bills for his plane so he's being diverted from landing at certain airports

https://bsky.app/profile/liminal67.bsky.social/post/3kzdh6eacps2v

[Tom Servo]

Tim Walz had a Dreamcast he played so much that his wife took it away from him. He's got my vote.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Things just feel kinda iffy at the moment…

Similar to stock market, like it’s not sure whether to grow explosively or crash spectacularly… sure feel like things could go either way.

Same with Harris/Walz, I do recall there was also this initial enthusiasm during the 2020 primary as well. Kamala was good at attacking, but then when she needs to go off script and talk about something more substantive…, things began to crash down on her…

Saving grace is the Trump is now the old rambling mumbling slurring guy now, so maybe the 60 year old pair can project some youthfulness better…

It be great if we could just skip the debates and just vote now… ;)

As for Walz’s owning zero stocks/bonds/real estates, I’m still on the fence about that. That’s just such an odd approach for a governor. Surely we don’t want our politicians doing insider’s trading, but to have zero investments just doesn’t seem normal. I suspect he might be ‘hiding’ something else where? Or he really just doesn’t believe in investing? Do we really want a president who doesn’t believe in investing?

Anyway, I think that’s the only ‘weird’ thing I can find about Walz. Otherwise I kinda do like him better than Kamala.

[MR2 Fan]

DNC Convention is next week...not a big deal overall as I don't expect a lot of "news" to come out of it, however I am a bit annoyed at the lineup of speakers. It's just....old Democratic Party.

Biden- of course, fine
Obama - cool
Hillary Clinton - ehhh
Bill Clinton - wtf why??
Walz - great!

Really I think it's time to dump the Clintons...we should have Pete Buttigeig or Gavin Newsom up there, we should have any other younger Democrats that people actually like. I am glad Shapiro isn't speaking but there's others that would be good.

[Tom Servo]

Hard pass on Newsom, but overall I agree. The Clintons are honestly a lot of baggage at this point.

[Tom Servo]

Another example of Bloomberg sucking ass, but also absolute agreement with Masnick: Calling Musk a free-speech absolutist is journalistic malpractice.

https://www.techdirt.com/2024/08/16/can-we-finally-stop-pretending-elon-musk-is-a-free-speech-absolutist-hes-not/

[Crazed_Insanity]

DNC Convention is next week...not a big deal overall as I don't expect a lot of "news" to come out of it, however I am a bit annoyed at the lineup of speakers. It's just....old Democratic Party.

Biden- of course, fine
Obama - cool
Hillary Clinton - ehhh
Bill Clinton - wtf why??
Walz - great!

Really I think it's time to dump the Clintons...we should have Pete Buttigeig or Gavin Newsom up there, we should have any other younger Democrats that people actually like. I am glad Shapiro isn't speaking but there's others that would be good.

One thing I have to hand it to the democrats is that they have more living ex presidents! Might as well get Jimmy Carter up there too! ;)

On the Republican side, other than Trump, all they have now is W! :lol: I think even conservatives realize W wasn’t all that great, just good enough to beat Gore?

Speaking of Gore, why not invite him too? If Hillary deserves to speak, why shouldn’t Gore? ;)

[MR2 Fan]

No Gore because they don't want the audience to fall asleep.

Kinda odd to think that yeah, only W is left for GOP former presidents other than Trump....and W won't go near Trump, so maybe he's not as dumb as we thought

[Crazed_Insanity]

Another example of Bloomberg sucking ass, but also absolute agreement with Masnick: Calling Musk a free-speech absolutist is journalistic malpractice.

https://www.techdirt.com/2024/08/16/can-we-finally-stop-pretending-elon-musk-is-a-free-speech-absolutist-hes-not/

Finally finished reading that article… I think clearly Musk isn’t a free speech absolutist and he’s also walked back on such claim?

In the article, clearly Musk had no problems with censorship in authoritarian regions, but just messes around in western nations. Claiming that he’s simply following local ‘law’…

Whatever… so the best way to shut Elon up is to help elect dictator Trump! Otherwise I think we should be glad that we live in areas where no authoritarians can tell Musk what to do.

Lastly, I really hope Elon didn’t just buy Twitter for free speech. X better revolutionize something or else it’ll likely eventually distract him enough to cause him to fall…

[JoeW]

It’s because Trump isn’t a republican. He’s a psychopath.

[Tom Servo]

I know I've posted this many times before, but I just watched bits of his "economy" speech. I do not get it. The man is clearly delusional and barely coherent. The only thing I get from it is that he's shameless in his willingness to blame everything on anybody but himself or anyone like him. And I guess that's the draw. Nothing that's bad is my fault, it's all the foreigners or the democrats or the scientists or whatever. I think his only draw is that he literally has no shame and allows people to feel like they can pretend like they have no part in the lives they are currently living.

I'm probably overanalyzing, but it's clear that this is a cult of personality thing, it has nothing to do with reality. The realization that he's just a symptom of the disease and how deeply embedded the disease is is pretty terrifying.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I know I've posted this many times before, but I just watched bits of his "economy" speech. I do not get it. The man is clearly delusional and barely coherent. The only thing I get from it is that he's shameless in his willingness to blame everything on anybody but himself or anyone like him. And I guess that's the draw. Nothing that's bad is my fault, it's all the foreigners or the democrats or the scientists or whatever. I think his only draw is that he literally has no shame and allows people to feel like they can pretend like they have no part in the lives they are currently living.

I'm probably overanalyzing, but it's clear that this is a cult of personality thing, it has nothing to do with reality. The realization that he's just a symptom of the disease and how deeply embedded the disease is is pretty terrifying.

I really think both sides are doing similar things. Right blames left and left blames right as if we are all supposed to go around in circles. Neither side would admit to their own problems, but can always point out problems on the other side. We have no clue how to move forward anymore. This ‘disease’ is color blind or apolitical.

I do agree Dems are at a disadvantage without a cult personality.

Kamala Harris is still no Obama or bill Clinton.

After 4 years of both Trump and Biden, I have no intention of reelecting either. I’m willing to give Kamala a chance only because she might be different, but I’m not keeping my hopes up too high.

2020 primary already showed us we have many candidates better than Kamala, but in our democracy, we don’t really get to choose our candidates…

[G'day Mate]

...we should have Pete Buttigeig …

For sure. Pete is absolutely the best political communicator I have ever seen. At least when it comes to cutting through nonsense and making his point - others are much better at bullshitting and gaslighting.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Transportation Secretary Pete could be the next gen Bernie Sanders since Bernie was his childhood hero. However, maybe he didn’t want to end up like Bernie so he has decided to join forces with the Dems to crush Bernie back in 2020.

He traded his #2 spot behind Bernie for a transportation secretary position.

Will the Dems really give him a real shot at the White House? Who knows. I do prefer him over Kamala, but the fact he gang up with the dem establishment to derail Bernie’s bid really left a bad taste in my mouth.

Both Clinton and Obama are charismatic and good at making points, but I wish they could be more like Trump when it comes to not starting new wars around the world. That’s the main thing that makes me want to vote Trump, but all other Trump qualities makes me not want to vote for him though…

If I were in WW3, I think I’d want Trump or Sanders as president. All other guys will likely be influenced by our military industrial complex. Given that Pete yielded his bid to allow the establishment approved Joe, he will likely unable to be his own man in the White House.

His childhood dream about how he’d like to be like Bernie will likely remain a childhood dream as he faces and yield to the ‘real world’.

[JoeW]

You are so...nevermind, I just can't put it into words.

[MR2 Fan]

You are so...nevermind, I just can't put it into words.

he is so billi, always has been

[Tom Servo]

It'd be neat to see Billi tell us what wars Clinton and Obama started.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You talking about wars?

1st off, there's no question, other than Trump, Republicans probably started more wars than democrats. However, even as a 'less evil' party, modern dems did start plenty of wars.

I think the main missed opportunity for Clinton was his eventual rejection of allowing Putin to join NATO. Putin tested the water by expressing his desire to also join NATO, Clinton agreed on the idea at 1st, but eventually after talking to his 'team', they rejected the idea. This gave Putin proof that NATO exists not really to protect one another out of the goodness of each other's hearts, but it's there basically to counter Russia... or Putin himself? Allowing Putin to join NATO could've saved countless Ukrainian lives...

Anyway, back to his other actual wars... Kosovo was not for the self-defense of the US nor its allies, and not authorized by UN Security Council vote, and so, was illegal under international law and violation of the UN General Charter Treaty. Clinton also ordered an attack on Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, Operation Desert Fox. But we all know Hussein is evil so it's okay to use him as a punching bag whether we have good reasons or not.

As for Obama, here's a list of nations he bombed

https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/politics/countries-obama-bombed/index.html

This article from LA times spelled out lot more details here: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-obama-at-war/

Obama believes history will side with him, but we shall see.

IMHO, Obama just wasn't very truthful... from the very beginning as a Jr. Senator who said he won't run for WH... (If he had kept to his promise, we would've had a women president then. Hillary had a much greater chance and less political baggage back in 2008!) However, my biggest annoyance was his broken promise of pulling out of Afghanistan. Another annoyance was he killed Bin Laden like a dog and dumped his body in the ocean. What he heck was that? That's something you'd expect Trump to do.

Trump did also use Obama drone program to kill 'dogs', but certainly not quite as many times.

My point was that Trump was indeed somewhat unique when compared to all modern US presidents when it comes to wars. Surely Trump never ran as a peacemaker... Obama went for that claim and even won a nobel peace price for it. However, their records speak for themselves.

Of course Biden also never started any wars that involves US soldiers, but a LOT of US resources went into fighting the Ukraine and Gaza wars.

Pretty sure if we can look at the accounting of military spending under all those modern day admins, Trump most likely spent the least in military spending.

Maybe Trump was just lucky, but during his 4 years, the world was most definitely more peaceful. Crazy dictators around the world are probably afraid of this mad man? Or perhaps Covid19 also made those mad men think twice about doing anything outside their homes? ;)

I don't like Trump, but I do like the way he handled foreign policies. Dismantling NATO could've been a great idea, at least Putin will no longer have a reason/excuse to invade Ukraine. US really needs to clean up its own house and stop messing around with the rest of the world.

A President Harris would be a Hillary Clinton dream come true.

I'd predict there will be more wars like the ones we currently have. Of course eventually, US troops will have to get involved.

The Trumpian isolationist policies might be better at keeping peace when each nation start to tend to their own nations...

On a personal level, if China attacks Taiwan, I'd hope US won't get involved in a long drawn out war with China... and also seeing Taiwan flattened like Ukraine. If there is such a war, I'm really not sure which president would be better... I think this might be the main reason why I'm just so not motivated to vote for neither.

[Tom Servo]

I'm glad you wrote all that. Of course, not a single word of it had anything to do with any wars started by Obama or Clinton, but hey, at least you wrote all of it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well I didn't write all of the words... at least I didn't write couple of those linked articles. :p

Anyway, yes, you can play word games about who started it... clearly, W 'started' a bogus war. There's no debate there. He's the worst of the bunch.

Obama and Clinton may not have started them, but they were still engaged in war activities not fully sanctioned by UN.

Of course, even UN might not be always right. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Maybe history will prove me wrong and Obama and Clinton right.

I just don't personally believe US should get this involved around the world. It seems wherever we've meddled, the region turns to shit. Whether it's middle east or latin america or africa or asia or even eruope...

Clearly Trump the anti-establishment candidate did something different. I'm sure if Bernie were elected, he would've been different too when it comes to foreign and military policies. As for the usual politicians, they will end up doing business as usual. You can take comfort regarding Biden didn't start any wars, but if American leadership is incapable of ending wars, if shock and awe isn't scary enough to make dictators having 2nd thoughts about starting shit, then what is it really good for? Just supply endless weapons so that the wars go on? Why?

Why must Ukrainians and Gazans endure these wars? What's the end goal we're trying to reach?

It seems more like we're profiting off of these wars. The longer the wars, the higher the profits. What would be our incentive to shorten these wars then?

Hey, we didn't start any of these shit, but if we can make money off of it, why not?

However, even if we didn't actually start the actual wars, can we really say that we are entirely blameless? There were no meddling around? These dictators and terrorists were all just crazy and did all they did for no reason whatsoever?

USA is the main culprit for the current wars that are going on. Even Bin Laden and Hussein used to be our partners in crime.

My main reluctance for Hillary and Kamala is basically this... we will continue on this path globally and make the world even shittier.

Of course having Trump might cause USA itself to be shittier.

What kind of shit should I vote for? It's really tough man...

I'm hoping that assassination attempt really caused Trump to be born again...

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/19/politics/fact-check-night-one-democratic-national-convention/index.html

I'm impressed that CNN fact checked the DNC convention speeches!

However, I'm sure most supporters won't care. :p

It's really as if both camps are living in there separate realities. Neither side wants nor cares about the real truth. Defeating the opposition is the #1 priority.

It's also a bit surprising to see AOC supporting Harris/Walz so highly... yeah, I know, who else should she support? Surely it can't be Trump! However, my worry is that AOC will just become the next Nacy Pelosi... Hope I'm wrong.

Katie Porter is the other one that I like, but not sure if she'll have a smooth political career though.

I wonder who in congress will take over the torch from Bernie Sanders after he dies... I will be very very sad if there's no one...

[sandydandy]

From what I understand and remember, Clinton and Obama just continued wars started by Bush Sr. and Jr. All of the ISIS/Syria bullshit, (which I still don't fully understand), was a freak mutation resulting from the destabilization of the region. It's not like Obama went and started that shit. Not even sure if it's still going on or not. Can't make heads or tails of what's happening in that part of the world anymore.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, there had been a long "war on terror" campaign that somehow people seem to forget that Trump continued, he bombed Syria and bragged about ending ISIS, yet then somehow some people claim that he was the most peaceful president in recent memory because they have goldfish brains.

[Crazed_Insanity]

From what I recalled, yes, Obama carried on W’s torches as if there was no change at least from the perspective of foreign nations.

Even Edward Snowden who feared whistleblowing under W, and thought Obama would be better… boy was he wrong! But then again, we can’t really know for sure, maybe Snowden is a Russian agent?

Speaking of Russia, they annexed crimea under Obama’s time and full on attacked Ukraine under Biden’s watch. Fact is that Putin sat tight under Trump.

Why?

Could be because Putin’s afraid of the orange mad man or perhaps Trump is also Putin’s man just waiting for him to dismantle NATO so that he could sleep better at night… or maybe Putin was thinking of an European invasion and needed Trumps help?

Biden never started any wars, but wars ended up lasting for years longer under his leadership.

Difficult to say exactly how Trump would do differently… will he really be better? I can’t say. All I can say is that world was relatively at peace under his 4 years when compared to all previous and current modern day US presidents. Obama promised to pull out of Afghanistan but Trump was the one who actually got it done.

This is the only reason why I might reluctantly vote for him, but right now I’m more inclined to reluctantly vote for Kamala.

Only way I’ll vote for Trump is if Lord Almighty tells me to. However, if God really would rather him be president after saving his life, surely God can find enough votes for him without my help. If God needs my vote, surely He’ll send an angel to let me know or give me a visions… :p

My personal greatest fear would be China does something stupid and attacks Taiwan, and then that will sink the economy of the world.

Will Kamala be a good commander in chief? Will the friendly to China Walz be of help? I think I wouldn’t mind having that orange mad man during time of war. Although he might be looking for his expensive shoes after he’s injured but you know he’ll fight on! ;)

[Rare White Ape]

Don't forget: every US president in history has been able to make the choice to stop bombing something. There is a low percentage of presidents that used the option which was available to them. I'd quote this percentage but I don't have it and don't feel like researching it, because it's messy and has a lot of caveats. It's probably zero. Since WWII it's almost definitely zero.

Just because many of these presidents inherited a war that was started by their predecessor, it doesn't magically make them angels or anything. I'd say unless a president immediately ceases ALL military (and non-military 'civilian' operations like the CIA) outside of US borders and drastically defunds the military, they are also guilty of perpetuating the forever war that the US has found itself in since the 1940s.

What's relevant here is the topic of Dooonald Trump: he did not start a war or significantly escalate any overseas conflict, but he did preside over a lot of bombings and whatnot. I think the biggest factor in people's opinion thinking that he was 'anti-war' is setting up the military withdrawal from Afghanistan, which could uncharitably be seen as a poisoned chalice for the incoming Biden administration to oversee.

Now we have a so-called 'left-wing' party shutting down any voice of Palestinian concern over Gaza and the West Bank right now, during the election campaign. The US may not be the one flying the jets and dropping the bombs, but it is definitely complicit in Israel's actions.

Don't forget: Biden has had the choice to bring it all to a halt ever since he first walked into the Oval Office as president. Kamala Harris does too. But you already know she won't make that choice.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Main difference is Trump’s isolationist policy. If the world wants to hire USA’s fire power, they better pay for it. Trump said that to Taiwan as well! ;)

Trump is not that interested in geo-politics. Thinking about which dictator should I install now so that I can enjoy benefiting from this puppet for years to come… such strategizing are only done by the ‘establishment’.

From his point of view, what’s profitable about bombing Afghanistan forever? If there are people who picks a fight, sure bomb them back, but it’s pointless to occupy them forever. Same with NATO, you better pay your membership dues or else what’s the point of this club? Why should US pay for everything?

So I think Trump would also complain to Israel about why should he pay for their stupid war? Bombing Gaza has nothing to do with Israel’s right to exist.

Biden/Obama/Clinton/W will likely all have done similarly predictable things.

Trump would be more unpredictable, which makes him more dangerous I suppose. I think dictators and terrorists around the world know this too.

Like I was saying, Bin Laden and Hussein used to be our 'friends', because we had a policy of being friends with our enemy's enemies.

I wouldn't even be surprise US struck a deal with Bin Laden to pretend that he's dead. I'd like to see a trial that end up bring him to justice rather than seeing him killed and body dumped in the ocean. What are we? Mafia? Cartel?

Same with Edward Snowden... why couldn't he have a fair trial at home? It just feels like US government has something to hide.

That bring us to the origin of Covid19. Thanks to CCP coverup and US taxpayer funding, will we ever know the truth? Of course not. All we can know for now is that if you believe in lab leak, then you are a racist and anti-science idiot. Nothing to see here... :p

It's pretty lame that we end up funding research that we wouldn't dare do at home so we let the dumb Chinese do it. Talk about racism.

Also, a viral lab next to wet market and totally unable to predict anything. Clearly they're not doing research for public safety...

Anyway, it's all conspiracy theory and people like me are racist and anti-science... I know I know... Back in the days, if you don't believe the exact political narrative of the church, you need to be excommunicated... today, if you don't believe in the political narrative of 'science', then you're out too. Is that really science is all about? We need to have consensus even without evidence?

The more I think about these things... the more I want to give up voting.

Maybe I should just stick to praying. Lobbying God will probably yield better results...

[Rare White Ape]

Billi you should write all of your posts on a big sign that you hang over your shoulders and elaborate on them on the footpath outside the White House.

[Tom Servo]

Hell, Trump's gone on record that he thinks Netanyahu should just obliterate the Palestinians, and one could argue that his push to move the embassy to Jerusalem was a provocation.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hell, Trump's gone on record that he thinks Netanyahu should just obliterate the Palestinians, and one could argue that his push to move the embassy to Jerusalem was a provocation.


Trump's comments, whether on or off records, are just not very palatable. Like I said, it's also much harder to predict how Trump would react. Maybe the thought of obliterated Palestine will cause those terrorists to think twice about kidnapping anybody. However, similar to every hypocrite, we can't always take a politician by his words... his actions speak louder than words, right?

Other than the pandemic, were the Trump years really the most dangerous times around the world in terms of military conflicts? Sure sounds that way in Democratic Convention, but please look at the facts!

Even looking at Jan 6, were those insurrectionists really exercised their 2nd amendment rights to overthrow the government? If one can sympathize with BLM riots, one should also be able to sympathize with folks who thought their election was stolen. However, in the end, Trump didn't egg them on to fight fight fight. He eventually told them to go home.

Yeah, we could also say that he's dangerous because he's climate denier..., but seriously, so what if you're all for fighting climate change... when we now have 2 unstoppable wars? (they are unstoppable because we just keep on supplying them bombs... Yes, we absolutely need to fight climate change, but we need to keep on giving them bombs too! This is being politically correct with our lips and then our action shows what's truly important in our hearts... Actually I'm sure regardless of color, most average americans do not want our government to keep on sending over bombs, but will our government listen to its people? Just pay your taxes and shut up and don't tell us what to do! We can tell you what to do though...)

Anyway, lastly, I just want to be clear that I do not support Trump. Pence and lots of others who've worked closely with Trump are telling us Trump's no good... and I believe them. However, I'm just trying to look at the facts... inadvertantly or deliberately, Trump brought relative peace around the world for a short while.

[JoeW]

Keep in mind that for better or worse Presidents can't really accomplish much if the house and senate aren't on their side. Obama tried to get so much done but was vetoed left and right. Trump got "lucky" when 2 or 3 justices died on his watch and he got to really stack the deck there for many many years to come.

Even on this immigration stance, they almost had a bipartisan deal done but Trump told all his people to torpedo it so the Dems couldn't put it on their resume. That's just petty shit.

Trump doesn't want allies, he wants a conglomerate of world leaders like himself driven by power and greed.

Imagine spending just half our military budget on things like infrastructure for future electrification? Or smart farming, diseases etc? Nope...planes that cost a billion each...can you imagine how much different the world could look if we just chilled out for a hot minute and focused on doing one thing for the greater good?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Presidents could use their executive powers to start illegal wars. However, our entire government is bought and paid for by the 'establishment' though.

When W invaded Iraq based on lies, our congress went for it too! Senator Hillary certain didn't stop him. Senator Bernie did try though... and Senator Hillary won a chance to be a presidential candidate, but Senator Bernie was blocked every step of the way.

We don't have that many anti-establishment people in our government. Most of them do the will of the 'establishment'. Only those folks usually get a chance to be the next in line. I think in recent history, only Trump and Bernie were trying to cut in line due to their own popularity. Republicans failed to contain Trump, but Dems were able to shut Bernie out. I think the only way Trump was able to do it is because he's such a shameless person... ;)

Also, political opponents torpedoing each other... is that surprising?

Democrats for sure know how to build a wall around their convention in Chicago when necessary, but when Trump wants a wall... oh he's such a racist. Liberal states like CA definitely can benefit from illegal immigrants. Their inflated population will give them more seats in congress... so even if illegal folks can't directly vote, but they will end up gaining more electoral/congressional votes.

The 'establishment' is having the red and blue americans bickering on a lot of BS issues so that we don't know how they're screwing us at home and around the world...

#1 BS issue is abortion rights. I'm pretty sure most democrats do not want to kill babies and I'm pretty sure most republicans do not want states to deny people's rights to choose. Yet, average americans are willing to seemingly kill each other for this bogus issue.

[JoeW]

Holy shit bro you are off the rails..

[drew]

Holy shit bro you are off the rails..

I will just assume that's in reference to something of profound stupidity and fuckery.

[JoeW]

Lol…well said sir.

[21Kid]

Unfortunately, Billi has gotten so bad, that I've recently been skipping multiple responses after his if I see them referring to something he said.

He's a waste of time... and it's gotten to the point that reading any responses to him is also a waste. So, I probably miss parts of someone else's posts if they include a response to him. I'll skip the whole thing now.

Maybe it's just me? I used to try listening to both sides of politics too. But, the first year or two into Trumps' term... I couldn't listen to anything MAGA-related anymore. I'd welcome an actual discussion about policy, but it seems like it's MAGA or bust over there now. And it's not worth it. As soon as the MAGA talking points come on, I stop listening.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow, I don't think I've seen Fud for a while... nice to have you back! :p

I really think political orientation is similar to sexual orientation. If you're not bi, you're not bi, no need to force yourself to be bi... or somebody you're not. :p

People may switch their 'self identity' sometimes, but most of the time, our political orientation isn't really by choice. This may also be why we see people with opposite orientation as weird and sometimes even evil.

When you no longer wish to even listen, there's no possibility of any meaningful discussion.

If you're unwilling to even look at the other side, then at least try to examine your own side better?

Was Biden really the best Dems had? Is Kamala really the best Dems have now?

Liberal people's choice was clearly Bernie. If not Bernie, then it would've been Pete.

However, people's choices were denied.

All they can say now is that Trump is off the rail dangerous! We must support the puppet we're telling you to vote now or else we'll be doomed!

[Tom Servo]

Oh good, I see we're spouting more Elon Musk nonsense.

There are proportionately about the same number of undocumented immigrants in Texas as compared to the state population as there are is in California per Pew Research estimates from 2021. Texas generally votes right of center. Can we just agree that those two cancel each other out? NY actually has a proportionately lower number of undocumented immigrants as compared to the overall population than most states, so how does that slot in to that theory? Florida has a greater proportion of its population made up of undocumented immigrants than California. This is all so easily researched, it took me like 5 minutes too look into it and whether it made any sense.

In other news, I can tell you that the women in my life do not consider abortion to be a "BS" issue and take it, and access to it, rather seriously. There are also 14 states that have near total or total abortion bans and 24 states have some sort of restriction in place, so yeah....maybe a lot of republicans do want states to deny people's right to choose.

[Cam]

At this point, I think Billi may be a chatbot. :lol:

[JoeW]

So I would like to ask a honest question about the Republican overall pov regarding the perfect society.

What do they consider the perfect society?

Pure capitalism doesn’t work….in the end one company ends up running everything. They say they want less government but they also love governmental bureaucracy and a huge military.

They say they are constitutionalists but want religion to be the guiding principles, want to ban books etc.

Can someone please explain how the Republican Party would shape our system if given full control?

Not Billi please. Someone who can formulate thoughts.

I know so many hard core republicans but all they know is the general talking points.

[Rare White Ape]

Joe, the problem with answering that question is that the ideals of the republican party are actually 100% at odds with what the majority of voters would actually benefit from.

It’s a party that likes to stuff the pockets of rich people at the expense of all else. Rich people make up less than 1% of the population.

So asking the average Republican voters what they really want might cause them to realise they’re shooting themselves in the foot.

I know a fully Republican-controlled America would be very white though.

[Rare White Ape]

I forget who was making comments here about RFK Jr being a potential left-wing alternative to the incumbent president.

Anyway, word on the street is that RFK Jr is about to withdraw himself from campaigning and will endorse Trump for president.

[JoeW]

Yeah valid points. But if there was a leaflet somewhere that explained the actual republican manifesto I’d be interested to see the talking points.

If you are jobless you are a loser…republican society doesn’t have unemployment benefits.
If you work full time for a big corporation then you likely don’t make enough to survive on your own. Because corporations generally aren’t there to help employees. Because unions are banned.
If you own a small business you will likely get put out of business by big corporations.

I just want an intelligent republican to explain how they think it should work.

No healthcare, no insurance, no worker protections, no government. How is it supposed to work?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I can’t speak for republicans because I’m not Republican. Lots of conservative friends of mine think I’m off the rail too! :p

Not sure if we still have any republicans here who’d visit this thread. We used to be pretty even, but all the righties moved on… I know George voted for Bush but even he has switched sides!

Also JoeW, are you sure you’ll ever find an intelligent Republican? Surely every one of them will seem stupid and off the rail to you? ;)

[MR2 Fan]

Vance is so bad at his job, I almost wonder if he's purposely trying to torpedo Trump's campaign. Tonight on Fox News Vance said "Donald Trump can point to four years of leadership and say I delivered rising prices"

[sandydandy]

I forget who was making comments here about RFK Jr being a potential left-wing alternative to the incumbent president.

Anyway, word on the street is that RFK Jr is about to withdraw himself from campaigning and will endorse Trump for president. That was me. I didn’t know about RFK’s nutty ways and just looked at the prestige of his last name. I heard Trump is considering giving him a position in his regime, which might explain his impending endorsement.

[Leon]

At this point, I think Billi may be a chatbot. :lol:

I've had to block him, just for the sake of my blood pressure. You should try it. It makes several threads on here remarkably peaceful.

[G'day Mate]

This guy Walz seems to really be connecting with people ...

[sandydandy]

I've had to block him, just for the sake of my blood pressure. You should try it. It makes several threads on here remarkably peaceful. I think he's only problematic in this thread. He seems perfectly normal in virtually every other.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Politics and religions lower interest levels. This is something I've known long before... and a risk I've accepted when joining these topics. For some odd reason, I have super high interest levels in such topics... even if the discussions are about topics that I disagree or upset with. I know I'm weird like that. :p

Like I said, political orientation is really like sexual orientation. You find it difficult to understand why "they're" so "disgusting", however, I have faith that liberals will eventually embrace these kind of differences and embrace true diversity. Diversity can't just be about accepting everyone except conservatives, right? Or weirdos like me, right? ;)

It will definitely be harder for conservatives to embrace the other side because they're naturally 'conservative'... however, try taking their social security checks away from them and see if they would really cheer about ending socialism. :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oh good, I see we're spouting more Elon Musk nonsense.

There are proportionately about the same number of undocumented immigrants in Texas as compared to the state population as there are is in California per Pew Research estimates from 2021. Texas generally votes right of center. Can we just agree that those two cancel each other out? NY actually has a proportionately lower number of undocumented immigrants as compared to the overall population than most states, so how does that slot in to that theory? Florida has a greater proportion of its population made up of undocumented immigrants than California. This is all so easily researched, it took me like 5 minutes too look into it and whether it made any sense.

In other news, I can tell you that the women in my life do not consider abortion to be a "BS" issue and take it, and access to it, rather seriously. There are also 14 states that have near total or total abortion bans and 24 states have some sort of restriction in place, so yeah....maybe a lot of republicans do want states to deny people's right to choose.

Sorry, somehow I missed this post...

Anyway, just because every state has its fair share of illegal immigrants, doesn't make it right to just let it happen. If you don't let it happen, then you're a racist! That's just BS.

Take down that wall around the democratic convention then. Why are dems being such a 'racist' protecting their convention like that? Get what I'm saying?

I understand that Trump wall may be too pricy and might not even work, but I just don't understand why Americans can't be against illegal immigration. Similarly we can all see shoplifters have the right to steal and homeless have the right to camp whereever. We need to respect their dignity man! Don't you think this is blue states going too far?

As for abortion rights thing, all I'm saying is that we are deliberately ignoring parts that we have in common and instead have a hyper focus on the parts that we are different.

Just ask conservatives... do you really want government to give you a mandate and take away your freedom to choose?

Likewise, as your wife or any liberal... do you really want to kill babies?

Most Americans would answer NO and agree with one another regarding this issue. Yet, we refuse to see our common ground and instead rather fight each other to death.

Or at least we can wheel and deal with the conservatives? Okay, we'll let you have your government mandate of no abortions, but since you're so pro-life, let's add on mandating masks and vaccines and ending fossil fuel? Let's all save life together!!! :lol:

Both sides pick and choose when they're pro-life or when they're pro-choice.

[21Kid]

I think he's only problematic in this thread. He seems perfectly normal in virtually every other.Not worth it.

The ideal Republican state to me seems like a mix of Medieval Lords ruling over the lower class, a Handmaid's Tale, and Atlas Shrugged.

[sandydandy]

Not worth it.

The ideal Republican state to me seems like a mix of Medieval Lords ruling over the lower class, a Handmaid's Tale, and Atlas Shrugged. You forgot Cersei Lannister. :D

[21Kid]

I didn't want to get crazy... 😉

[JoeW]

Seems that way. I’ve even tried looking up on the internet what republicans feel is the best way to run a society but I can’t find any truly descriptive information.

As an aside, I am a member of this FB group that is basically just people who live in our immediate community of maybe 10 mile radius. Generally it’s just locals promoting their business, lost/found animals etc. Well, because Florida, we are heavy on the republican side. And oftentimes posts come up saying “local (business named x) closing. So sad bidenomics claims another”. Etc…lots of stuff laced with anti democratic messages.

Now I don’t engage but I am not exaggerating when I say this…whenever people do engage with peaceful alternative theories about why the business closed (or whatever the subject), every single nasty reply with profanity or name calling is always done by the Republicans. The peaceful responses are dems and the nasty stuff is republicans. Have we devolved into troglodytes vs civilization? It’s so bad.

These are mostly older people like ourselves, because FB, and they are using their public profiles (family, kids etc). Posting shit they should be ashamed of…but they are loud and proud.

One lady said “…I’d rather grab em by the pussy than be a pussy”. It’s truly horrifying.

[George]

This guy Walz seems to really be connecting with people ...

You should have seen the dirty look my wife gave me last night when I blurted out, "they should switch the ticket and have Walz run for president!" during his speech. :lol: Sorry.

I like the Vice President very much, but I can't help but relate to a regular guy who seems just like dudes I've known all my life. He was described last night as "the kind of guy who would stop to help if you had a flat tire." They did a nice biography of him that painted him as everyone's best friend, good neighbor, teacher, and football coach.

The Democrats' marketing department is doing a very good job with this convention. I have to think Walz will pull some older white guy votes away from the Republicans, and that's a group the Democrats need to convert away from that big-city con man...especially the rural, blue-collar, second amendment types like these guys.

https://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2021/03/King-of-the-Hill-Revival.jpg?fit=bounds&width=1280&height=720

I guess I just like to see common folks (or those who can convincingly pretend to be common folks) elected to office rather than politicians who act like it's their sole raison d'être.

Josh Shapiro seems like the latter. I saw his speech last night and thought, "where'd they find this guy?" He is such a politician, and he gives speeches like one. If he was a car salesman, I bet he'd dress like Herb Tarlek. I'd rather have a plain-spoken regular person who is just who they are and doesn't seem as if they've practiced in front of a mirror their whole lives. Like Jared Polis, maybe.

I enjoyed Bill Clinton's speech too. I didn't like him much as president, but time has a way of making Americans like their ex-presidents more than when they were in office. He has always been a great speaker, and last night was no exception. "I went to my first Democratic convention in 1976. No, 1972. Wow, I sure am getting old." :lol: And that after he mentioned he was younger than Trump. :up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Joe, both sides are upset. I also kinda doubt only one side is 'peaceful'. You think you're the peaceful and on the rail side, but surely the other side will see you differently. :p

I can understand why BLM protesters were angry.

I can understand why insurrectionists were angry.

However, I don't quite understand why a kid named Kyle needed to defend a store that's not his... and I also don't understand why the white lives that he shot dead really needed to be there at all. I think those are the folks who are truly off the rails with their ideologies.

Inflation had been low for decades, can't really give all credit to Trump for that.

Inflation had skyrocketed recently due to pandemic, can't really blame Biden for that.

However, reality is that people enjoyed cheaper goods during Trump years and if their businesses close now, those conservatives will naturally blame it on "Bidenomics".

Biden's inflation reduction act essentially pumped more money to the system. Is that really the way to fight inflation? I'm no expert, but basic market economy does say that pumping in more money will further drive up inflation. With more money in the system, value of dollars will drop further. I wish Biden would call his bill something different because for sure his act won't reduce inflation. I understand sometimes we do need to pump in money so that our economy won't crash, so I'm not totally against what Biden did... I just wish he would use better names... As of now, clearly the so called inflation reduction act did NOT reduce inflation. He ended up hurting himself.

On FB, I also saw some of my conservative friends mocking Biden that after 4 years, nothing's built, nothing's back and nothing's better. Can I argue with that assessment? I do disagree with one thing which is forever wars are back!

In away I think Biden is probably the new Jimmy Carter. A good guy but put in charge in a horrible time. Due to all the bad shit that went on, it's hard for him to be popular even with the folks within his own party. Of course his old age and ramblings certainly did him no services.

Things would've been different with Bernie Sanders I think.

For sure he's the superior anti-establishment candidate, but too bad he just wasn't powerful enough or perhaps smart enough to really beat the establishment...

Trump has been amazing at fighting the establishment, beating the republican establishment using the same "rules", but too bad he lacks moral character. That's the main reason why I won't vote for him.

Out of curiosity, what would be on DNC's pamphlet regarding the ideal society for America?

Personally, I don't think they have one either. Their main thing is to simply aim to be the less evil and that's it. Occasionally we get some charismatic candidates like Bill Clinton and Obama, then it'd be an easy win, but most other times, it'll be difficult to beat a republican president with just a bit of Charisma. Somebody like W could be a 2 termer is really unbelievable to me...

Seems to me Americans are mostly looking at charisma. You can't be a 2 termer president without it. W might be the exception? Or perhaps Dems just couldn't find a lesser evil candidate with more charisma I guess... lucky for W.

If my theory is correct, which is more 'charismatic' to their base?

Trump or Kamala?

I think Trump might have an advantage here. I think he only lost his reelection bid due to covid. If the unexpected pandemic didn't happen, I think he should've easily won reelection.

I do agree with George that Walz looks like a stronger candidate than Kamala...

[FaultyMario]

One lady said “…I’d rather grab em by the pussy than be a pussy”. It’s truly horrifying.

Hey lady, this hits close to home...

The pussy needs love.

We clear?

[JoeW]

Joe blah blah

When I said literally every insult and personal attack came from the Trumpers I wasn’t kidding. Even when some Dem people said they were leaving because of the insults…they were insulted more as they left the discussion.

I didn’t really want your opinion on the bidenomics…that was just an example I used.

The point was that even here on FB the MAGA crowd is loud, vulgar, crass, insulting and fiercely proud of it. And around here they want the local community FB to know who they are. So sad.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, I'm just sad that we now have 2 impenetrable bubbles and both sides are proud of excluding the other side.

Our forum here used to be way more bipartisan, but you can see all the very loud, vulgar, crass, insulting and fiercely proud members pretty much all left this forum or this thread... or convert to the dem side.

I'm probably the one exception where both sides think that I'm off the rails... and my skin is just incredibly thick... :D

I do kinda miss having someone like roofer around, but surely he's no longer welcome and I'm sure he also doesn't want to come here ever again.

My next door neighbor is a proud trump supporter. I don't find him that loud, vulgar or crass nor does he insult me. I get along with him just fine. Of course I don't constantly tell him how Trump sucks and lacks moral integrity...

Internet amplifies these things a bit too much sometimes... and forces us to ignore common grounds and instead focus on BS differences.

Truth be told, you don't really want any republican's opinion, right? The republican pamphlet need to be written by some democrat in order for you to actually want to read it, right? Every conservative intellectual is likely just some old hack racist not worth paying attention to?

Need to have a more opened mind if you really wish to stay in this thread and not go nuts. Most importantly don't assume the worst in people. Actually if I were removed and kicked out of this bubble, maybe you guys can finally discuss politics in peace? :p

If I were gone or put myself in a lurk mode only, will I be able to see you guys discuss how we may be able to make the DNC better? Or will you still be just trashing the Republican party when there's actually not even ONE Republican here?

I sincerely urge you guys to attempt the actually 'engage' the other side... or else this polarization will end America soon. Engage doesn't mean you have to agree, but at least you can hopefully eventually see their 'human' side more...

[Tom Servo]

Pretty disappointing to see the conservative pundit's reaction to Tim Walz and his son at the DNC.

Though I liked Michael Ian Black's post that most of the time when one of his kids is crying and shouting "That's my dad!", it's not because of a good thing.

[Tom Servo]

When I said literally every insult and personal attack came from the Trumpers I wasn’t kidding. Even when some Dem people said they were leaving because of the insults…they were insulted more as they left the discussion.

I didn’t really want your opinion on the bidenomics…that was just an example I used.

The point was that even here on FB the MAGA crowd is loud, vulgar, crass, insulting and fiercely proud of it. And around here they want the local community FB to know who they are. So sad.

I really do believe that a huge part of the current Republican party, especially the MAGA ones, is based 100% around owning the libs and nothing else. It's just tossing out insults and honestly just being mad at the progress that's been made over the past how ever many decades, from a black president to gay marriage to the ACA.

[JoeW]

Literally everything Billi just said about how I think was wrong. So I may consider that block.

[George]

The point was that even here on FB the MAGA crowd is loud, vulgar, crass, insulting and fiercely proud of it. And around here they want the local community FB to know who they are.

I know you guys on FB know that ^ stuff already, but I've never been a member there. I can remember my wife telling me about friends and relatives she no longer communicated with on FB because their pages went from family stuff and vacation pictures and funny memes to only politics, all the time, as soon as Trump got elected. Or maybe once he became the nominee in 2016. Whatever.

And they use their real names! That's the primary reason I never wanted to be on FB or LinkedIn. I don't want just anyone to be able to Google my name and learn all about me. I know it's all out there, but I see no reason to serve it up on a platter to strangers. Fortunately, my last name is the same as famous British person from a couple centuries ago, so I assume regular people who aren't professional bounty hunters or skip tracers will have to click a few Os in the Goooooooooogle results to get to me.

And that reminds me of a guy I work with who is apparently such a privacy nut that he gives an alias when we order lunch. The employee behind the counter will ask for his first name so they can call it when his sandwich is ready and he'll make one up! :lol: I think he's just having fun, but it's something I never would have thought of. And he has shown some other tendencies toward not giving up one morsel of information more than he has to - he signs his emails with just his first name and no phone number and things like that. He's kind of like the boss in A Bronx Tale who just sits on that bench and nods occasionally, never actually saying anything.

Well, at the last minute one day, I was asked to sit in on a job interview with him and another manager. Some young girl (politically incorrect, I know, but she was like 23 or something) eliminated herself from consideration by assuming people in their fifties are all over the internet and want to be found. She didn't know my name before the interview but she knew the two others'. At one point, she said to them, "I found you on LinkedIn but... (turning to the other and taking an inquisitive tone) ...I couldn't find your profile."

I almost gasped out loud with surprise and amusement. I knew what he was thinking. :lol:

Oh well, sorry to ramble on about nothing here. But ya gotta go with your strengths. :D


...a huge part of the current Republican party, especially the MAGA ones, is based 100% around owning the libs and nothing else. It's just tossing out insults...

I used to listen to Rush Limbaugh back in the early 1990s. That was mostly because I worked for a small business and the owner listened to him every day for three hours on a big console stereo in his office, with my desk right outside his door. This was before headphones were the norm in offices and possibly before earbuds even existed. I think Limbaugh deserves a lot of the credit blame for getting Republicans to become name-callers in large numbers. And I was a Republican then, but they didn't seem as extreme in the 20th century as they are today.

I later listened to Rush a time or two in more recent years and couldn't believe how just plain crazy he had become. By then he was just mean as hell and didn't even make much sense. Or maybe I had changed that much in twenty years. The answer is probably somewhere in between.

But it seemed like back in the '90s, he was the only one I heard who was making fun of Democrats by calling them names for ratings. Sure, he'd criticize their positions on the issues, but there was almost a separate component of making fun of people. I remember he'd always draw out the last syllable of Robert Reich's name. I mean every single time. Reich was Clinton's Secretary of Labor at the time, and Rush was always calling him "Robert Reissssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh" in a derogatory manner. I mean, what even is that?

There were lots of other people in the news back then who got unflattering nicknames from Limbaugh, but he's the only one I can remember at the moment. Seems like he'd even play sounds for some of them, like a quacking duck sound for one person and something else every time someone else's name came up. I wish I could remember more examples, although it doesn't really matter.

Rush OWNED the AM radio dial back then. He had the #1 rated radio show in the nation, at least according to him behind the golden EIB microphone. He didn't seem as cruel in the '90s as he got later on, and often he was downright funny and definitely entertaining. His Open Line Fridays could be a real hoot when stuck in a boring office or on a long drive in the car when it was either him, NPR (which I listened to also, then and now), or music.

But, either way, I think he's the one who really started playing Let's Call The Democrats Names. And Trump jumped on that bandwagon with his whole heart and soul, not that he has much of either, and brought his minions with him.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Swervo, Besides MAGA, there’s also Brexit and bunch of other anti-globalization nationalistic movements around the world!

The entire world can’t be upset about a black US president and gay marriage and ACA… I think it’s just that not everyone felt like they were benefiting from globalists agenda.

Joe, widen your mind a bit. It’ll be nearly impossible to debate anyone and change their political/sexual orientation. Best we can do is to gain understanding of the other side. We can’t expect anyone to switch sides! If I make your blood boil or nauseate you, perhaps it’s best you block me for your own health benefits. If you just want to talk about election and not want to read my posts, I totally understand.

[MR2 Fan]

So SOMEONE thought there would be a surprise special guest tonight like Beyonce or Taylor Swift....if it was a planned "leak" to get people to tune in, it seems like it worked.

Overall it looks like the convention did what it needed to do...now it's on to...debates? maybe?

[JoeW]

Billi WTF are you talking about? You keep saying shit suggesting I’m close minded or something. I’m literally saying that I want to understand what the republican ideal society plan looks like. I’ve searched online for some sort of manifesto but there is nothing I can find that isn’t just counterpoints and Monty Python arguments (being contrary for its own sake).

Then you start saying shit like I’m close minded and unwilling to see the other side. Dude I am in search of the other side’s well thought out ideas so hard but so far it’s been fruitless.

So stop that line of rhetoric. You somehow read something I said the wrong way and just decided in your mind that it was something else entirely.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude, com’on, you didn’t say any shit about me? It’s all just me saying mean shit about you? :p

Seriously, this forum here is the opposite of the FB group you described. I’m really not aware of any real Republican member here still participating in the political thread. Even I am not Republican. I see the good bad and ugly parts of Trump and my final analysis is still no vote. Yet, pretty much everyone here can only see the bad and ugly Trump.

Since I’m too off the rail to have a discussion with and we also don’t have any Republican members here, would you want me to provide you with some links as to where conservatives stand?

I can’t fully represent them because I’m not them, but I can try my best to help you understand what I understand about them.

Of course the best way is to actually talk to a conservative. Even if they’re very dumb and racist, there must be a reason why they are who they are. Even if reason is not fully known, we can try to understand their feelings?

After talking with my gay friends, I’m still not gay but I’m still friends with some of them. Some of them hated me for they disagree with my views, but oh well, I can’t make everyone like me. People are free to choose their friends however they want. I also need to be who I am and not pretending to be someone I’m not. I like political discussions but I’m not a politician! :p

[FaultyMario]

Joe I think prooject twenty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#Philosophical_outlook) twenty-fice is about as close an answer as you'd get.

[FaultyMario]

A comment on P2025:

Having been associated with local implementations of Agenda 2030, or the Sustainable Development Goals, I find it amusingly ironic that a group of people who have always pointed fingers at the UN for trying to establish a world government based on blocks of 15-minute ghettos so that a cabal of reptilian elites can rule over the whole wide world have now put their intentions for world domination out in the open.

Agenda21 and its successor have been attempts by the United Nations to have local governments (municipalities, counties and cities) around the world come to a minimal common understanding on what they should be doing to guarantee the civil, social, economic and cultural rights of their citizens, and then share with one another those methods that have gotten them some success.

As you can imagine, that type of endeavor, as noble as it sounds, is impossible to achieve. Mostly because either local elites have a tendency to take part in the local committees and get in the way of equal rights for everyone, or because having people with opposing (and often conflicting) interests and getting them to play nice and cooperate is always really frigging hard. And also because the UN is a useless bureaucracy.

But with a project like the aforementioned, a unified top to bottom government with strict hierarchical controls that is intended on blurring the separations of powers and undermining federalist institutions, their proposal becomes, in effect, the nwo they always "warned about".

[Tom Servo]

I really can't figure out of Trump truly believes that "Everybody, Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, and Conservatives" wanted Roe v. Wade overturned or if he knows that's just an insane take. 'Cause he keeps saying it and basically every poll says he's wrong, generally 60-70% of respondents did not favor overturning it. And he's not even saying "most people", he's saying "everybody".

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mario, The key difference is that their constituents have guns to fight back if they get too out of control…

But of course that’s an option only for Americans.

Of course you are also right about the impossibility of having such a united top to bottom ‘entity’. Just look at the state of GOP right now. Are they really all united with Trump? Even they don’t like the MAGA base and would prefer Trump be gone so they can return to business as usual… Reagan was probably their happiest days… W probably would be better than Trump? However, if it’s between Dems and MAGA, of course they’d pick MAGA.

After all, why would any American be against building American back better again? ;)

[Rare White Ape]

Joe I think prooject twenty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#Philosophical_outlook) twenty-fice is about as close an answer as you'd get.

So basically just a bunch of patriarchal and oligarchal religious horse shit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I really can't figure out of Trump truly believes that "Everybody, Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, and Conservatives" wanted Roe v. Wade overturned or if he knows that's just an insane take. 'Cause he keeps saying it and basically every poll says he's wrong, generally 60-70% of respondents did not favor overturning it. And he's not even saying "most people", he's saying "everybody".

He had lots of insane exaggerated takes. Why take him so seriously? I would not waste time contemplating whether to really inject myself with bleach… :p

End of Roe vs Wade is only going to hurt him politically. However, clearly, after so many decades, this is still a controversial issue. We might as well let Supreme Court to allow states to decide whether if they wish to own slaves if they want?

One major thing that puzzled me about conservatives is why are they only prolife on this issue? Willing to surrender their right to choose? Sandy hook involves a lot of dead babies, but they’re unwilling to give up gun rights…

Anyway, at least Supreme Court didn’t ban abortion. Each state simply can go do what they want. State Supreme Courts should continue the next logical step which is to go ahead and let each family decide to do whatever they want. If they really think all dems are just such evil baby killers, then perhaps make abortion require prescription from the family's doctor? Surely a medical doctor would not plot to kill babies along with the evil mother?

Such private issue really does not deserve such national attention. Do we need to fight another civil war regarding this issue? Unbelievable.

Like I said, 'they' made it such an important issue for the voters in order to distract voters about what 'they're' really doing behind their backs. Seriously, why is a politician who wish to save lives unworthy of your votes? Similarly, why should a politicians who wants to give you the liberty to choose unworthy of your votes? They're both great causes, yet, one side or another can make us super mad...

[JoeW]

I'm with you Mario.

Billi I never called you any names etc or insulted you personally. I just keep pointing out that your posts are literally all over the place. In such a way that it's nearly impossible to figure out what your points are. There are so many question marks and smiley faces mixed with just bizarre takes and strange metaphors/comparisons on sexual orientation, racism, politics etc that I still have no idea if that's how you really feel or if you are trying to tick so many boxes and sit on so many fences that you end up on another planet.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So basically just a bunch of patriarchal and oligarchal religious horse shit.

Personally I see nothing much wrong with their writings, just like the bible.

However, the problem is that God gave us to bible to use it to correct ourselves... not to judge others.

Religious folks have traditionally use the bible to cast stones to others, but rarely look at themselves in the mirror.

During Jesus' visit here on earth, pharisees were the conservatives and the sadducees were the liberals. Did Jesus endorse either groups? Nope. Neither did Jesus condemn them though. He even ask Father to forgive those who are crucifying him for they know not what they're doing...

In this world, we're all God's images... and we are also evil doers. Nobody's pure evil... and nobody's perfect. Likewise all the different ideologies or "-isms"... none will work perfectly in this real world. We all need to work together. Without capitalism, there's no way China can become that rich. When we are down, socialism safety net is absolutely necessary. Early Christians under persecution were living in very socialistic or perhaps even communistic way... if such a way of living is really that evil, why was that recorded in the bible?

For you guys who don't believe in Jesus, when you read the Bible, all you can see is a ridiculous evil cosmic killjoy God...

People can often see and read the same thing and come up with drastically different conclusions. Who's right who's wrong? I dunno.

Maybe you guys are right. Maybe God doesn't even exist.

However, to me, it's like we're living the the time of tower of babel. Globalism was our tower... we think we can do anything we want... and we'll have world peace... and we did become quite arrogant and think we can play our own God. Why do we need God anymore? We should be able to do better than Him!

Then what happened to the world?

God destroyed their "tower" and split people up into different nations speaking their own languages...

Anyway, enough of my mythologies... if only the globalists had the same intentions as Bernie Sanders, seeking to make the world a better place for all, narrowing the gap between rich and poor, then maybe this tower might work?

Unfortunately globalists have only their own selfish ambitions. Enriching only themselves..., naturally those who didn't get any benefit out of it wanted out.

Personally I don't need a politicians who believes in Christ, but I need him to be like Christ. Although Bernie Sanders is an atheist, but he's still the most Christ-like politician I know.

I don't need a conservative or liberal manifesto. Just show me somebody who's really passionate about helping average Americans, then he or she will get my vote.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm with you Mario.

Billi I never called you any names etc or insulted you personally. I just keep pointing out that your posts are literally all over the place. In such a way that it's nearly impossible to figure out what your points are. There are so many question marks and smiley faces mixed with just bizarre takes and strange metaphors/comparisons on sexual orientation, racism, politics etc that I still have no idea if that's how you really feel or if you are trying to tick so many boxes and sit on so many fences that you end up on another planet.

My writing style is off the rail, I get that.

However, you've specifically also said, please, no need to elaborate. I don't really care what you mean by all that weirdness and I should just be blocked. You also said you just couldn't possibly google anything about what conservatives really want...

Are you really being genuine about wanting to understand the other side?

Mario found something for you. What'd be your response? Same as RWA, right? Are you really willing to take a critical serious look?

I don't try to tick any boxes nor do I try to be fenced in by political parties. What is the best way to do things is what I'm aiming for. If I need to turn right, I make a right turn. If I need to turn left, I make a left turn. Is it really necessary to live our lives being fenced inside an oval track? At least be fenced in in a road course! ;)

Look, I'm not trying to force anyone off of an oval track, some people might love it. That's cool. I understand. A little rivalry is fine too..., but I just hate or get sad when people get so seriously upset over their differences. People are just different.

Lastly, if you honestly don't like me, it's okay. I won't take offense. I understand. There's no law requiring that we ought to like or love everybody. It's okay to block too.

I'm mostly here to learn and see different point of views. I don't mean to cause elevated blood pressures.

[MR2 Fan]

So basically just a bunch of patriarchal and oligarchal religious horse shit.

Exactly

[MR2 Fan]

"Reporter: Now you might be wondering why Trump's team would want RFK Jr.'s endorsement. RFK Jr.'s campaign has been plagued with scandal. A parasitic worm had entered into his brain and died there, he evaded questions on allegations of sexual assault, and he admitted he left a dead bear cub in Central Park"

Hollywood has no new stories because truth is stranger than fiction

https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1827043678730273076

[Crazed_Insanity]

RFK Jr. is like Hunter Biden. What they’re doing are actually not really newsworthy at all and they’re hurting their family name.

As far as dem turning GOP, I think Tulsi Gabbard is more interesting to me. Unless if she’s truly a Russian asset, I’d prefer her over both Trump and Kamala. But of course chance of that happening is lower than Bernie sanders winning DNC primary.

[Tom Servo]

Also, I wonder how RFK's anti-vax fans feel about him endorsing the Operation Warp Speed guy?

[Yw-slayer]

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/reconnected-romance-vacation-fling-chance-encounters/index.html

The Empire's propaganda arms now have to resort to posting borderline neo-colonialist cringe rubbish non-stories by Phil Space. He he he he he

[Tom Servo]

You're so fucking weird, dude. A feel-good story about two people meeting somewhere, falling out of touch, and then getting back together is neo-colonialist cringe rubbish? So fucking weird. And then seeing that story and being like "this needs to be posted to the Politics thread." So. Fucking. Weird.

I mean, sure, it's a non-story, but all newspapers have feel-good non-stories. How is that politics? If it's a non-story, why are you even mentioning it? I've re-read that story like four times trying to figure out if you had a point and now I'm just angrier.

[Tom Servo]

Swear to god I'm going to start posting stories saying they're about Chinese censorship or something and they'll just be a story about someone enjoying their new canoe.

[Rare White Ape]

I read it too. It's actually a really nice story and I am happy for Ola and Alex :)

So I think YW just posted the wrong link by mistake.

Still doesn't make him less weird though :D

[Tom Servo]

True, if it's the wrong link, then it's significantly less weird than what I thought. Still weird though.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think he just thought CNN is so pathetic that they have nothing else to report other than some fairy tale story… plus, they picked the wrong socialist nation to live happily ever after in… they should’ve picked G’ina! We all know it’s a greater country… after all, it’s got a great beautiful wall already built in to keep the Russians out… CNN fake news can never get their stories straight… G’ina has already made itself great again! We already have a dictator, orange Trump will never catch up… he’s a looser…

[Yw-slayer]

Nope, I deliberately posted the link to that non-story with people meeting in EXOTIC location and then blah blah blah who cares man.

Seriously, this is how to distract and entertain the masses.

[Tom Servo]

Holy shit, dude. It's the travel section of CNN. I stand by this. It's fucking weird you are hung up on this.

[Tom Servo]

I feel terrible letting you know this, but your favorite outlet also has non-news stories!

https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/article/3275634/how-new-hong-kong-immigrants-edinburgh-are-enjoying-its-vibrant-arts-and-culture-scene?module=top_story&pgtype=section

It's even got a "Lifestyle" section right in the header!

For fuck's sake, man.

[Tom Servo]

I read it too. It's actually a really nice story and I am happy for Ola and Alex :)

So I think YW just posted the wrong link by mistake.

Still doesn't make him less weird though :D

I will also hold out that other reasonable people, who don't necessarily think you post weird stuff trying to make a big divide between different countries' journalism that doesn't actually exist, thought you made a mistake posting that link.

FWIW, I'm being a dick about this because I know you're a smart and good person. I've disagreed with you with a lot of your opinions especially about journalism, but you honestly shot yourself violently in the foot with this. Like, I have no idea why you decided to point the shotgun at your foot and say "Hey, everyone, watch this!", but it was, unsurprisingly, a poor idea.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I just want to take the opportunity to say that nationalism is not an exclusively right wing problem. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to make your own nation great again, but not by threatening others or thru authoritarianism…

While the West had taken advantage of China in the past, but YW has to ask himself what does he really want for China besides just blaming the West for everything.

Likewise, Dems need to have their own visions of what they really want besides just blaming it all on conservatives and simply aim to be the lesser evil.

Be good, be better than good… be the greater good! Or are things so relative, the left are unable to define what is really good so they’re forever stuck at being less evil?

Before voting for Kamala, I’d like to read Kamala’s ‘manifesto’. What is her vision for America?

My guess is that her vision is just to beat Trump.
If Trump’s dead, what would you do Kamala?

After China emerges as the world’s greatest superpower, what will it do? How will the Chinese people live?

[Tom Servo]

I'm gonna stop you right there. Nationalism has a definition, and it isn't "wanting to make your own nation great again."

The entire rest of your post is predicated on nonsense.

[Yw-slayer]

I will also hold out that other reasonable people, who don't necessarily think you post weird stuff trying to make a big divide between different countries' journalism that doesn't actually exist, thought you made a mistake posting that link.

FWIW, I'm being a dick about this because I know you're a smart and good person. I've disagreed with you with a lot of your opinions especially about journalism, but you honestly shot yourself violently in the foot with this. Like, I have no idea why you decided to point the shotgun at your foot and say "Hey, everyone, watch this!", but it was, unsurprisingly, a poor idea.

No problem, man, totally understand where you are coming from.

The backpacker context of the meeting is the primary reason for the comment, particularly when in context it really looks like it is only being used as the "exotic" and "other" set-up for a feel-good romcom story and when the concept of backpacking itself raises many issues. Just search for backpacking and colonialism and/or imperialism.

I am taking the time to try and explain this as I think you are also both cool dudes, and in the hope that you can see why such comments might be made. Of course, I appreciate that you may well disagree.

Yes, of course most media outlets have a Lifestyle section. At the same time, almost everything that is written or set out in the media (newspapers, magazines, TV, movies) is inherently biased. Just adjust for it by noting and analysing where the media comes from and what is its bias and agenda.

[Tom Servo]

I'm not sure what one would expect from the travel section. I'll accept that there's some colonial baggage there, but was there anything about that story that was specific to Thailand? Would it have been the same story if they'd gone to, say, Boston? Probably, though not as novel as a travel story. Which, given it's the travel section. you sort of expect "exotic" locales.

So, sure, I get there's an element of it given that the people were in Thailand, but my goodness, I dunno if it's worth a post in the Politics thread, especially ignoring that tenuous connection. The globe has become a pretty small place, and tourism to various locales is commonplace, to places colonized by various cultures. In this case, it's someone originally from Germany and someone from Sweden, which as far as I know neither of them colonized Thailand.

I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure you could undermine yourself and the point you had more than you did.

[mk]

Quality of western feel good propaganda for westerners is good.
Its key property is that its face value is true.

Since '74 we had a grocery chain meat ad series with a master butcher Väinö 'Väiski' Purje.
The man was a celebrity in Tallinn area Estonia, our aerial TV reached there.
Our meat counter was so absurd behind the iron curtain that the ad series was declared as an ideological propaganda and Väiski as a CIA agent.

Dallas and Knight Rider were not small things either.

Receiver defines the message.
Back then official one didn't sink in down there.

[Yw-slayer]

I think the main issue is not so much whether Germany and Sweden colonised Thailand. It's more about backpacking in general, especially as Thailand is one of the hot destinations for backpackers.

This ties in with how what is "exotic" and "other" is apparently part of the "hook".

Whether it's worth it in the Politics thread is just a matter of judgment. Indeed sometimes innocuous bias/characterisation is the most dangerous. Hence I disagree with your assessment as to the strength of the point.

[Tom Servo]

I definitely do not think that's how it's seen at all. I want to go to Thailand because Thai food is delicious, and it's beautiful countryside which is part of the reason it's good backpacking. From that perspective, I don't see it as any different than wanting to go back to Trentino, which also has great food and beautiful countryside and it'd be amazing to backpack in the Dolomites. Well, it'd be amazing if I weren't a fat-ass and in better shape, but there's still time for that. I still think about that deer stew with polenta though, goddamn that was good.

Right as Covid was starting to spread, in early 2020, I went on a cruise with my in-laws through the Caribbean. The main draw for my father-in-law (RIP) was going through the locks at the Panama Canal. Once we were through the locks, there was an excursion they took us on that, at one point, went to an island of "native people" in Gatun Lake where it was basically a bunch of white people sitting and watching this "exotic" culture dance for us and then sell trinkets. It felt really gross. The draw was "look at these exotic, primitive people."

That is not the same draw I get from tourism to Thailand. And I also think that the location being Thailand is barely even a part of the story. It's about travel and connection, but like, it could have been in lots of other locations and been exactly the same article. There will always be some element of "exotic location" because it's the travel section. They won't write about a couple going to Branson, Missouri. But it could have been Alaska, or Puerto Rico, or Madagascar, or Sicily and been the same article.

But to your point, about what is "exotic" and "other" - that's part of tourism, right? Experience new things, new cultures, new food, new places. And backpacking seems like a better way to experience that than, say, what you get if you go to Cancun. You basically get kept in the Hotel Zone except when loaded on a bus to go see Chichen Itza.

I don't think experiencing a place via something like backpacking is a bad thing. In fact, I wish more people here in the US did that, I think they'd have a much better perspective. I think experiencing the world helps teach you that, yes, your culture is great, but so are other ones. See the world by actually seeing it, not by going to the McDonald's in Chicago that has the "world menu" or going to Epcot Center.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well said!

That made me remember our Caribbean cruise with our visit with the indigenous Haitians. That did not feel good seeing them so poor and we’re just bunch of tourists sightseeing their hard lives…

I’m sure some appreciate we give them some money but I’m also sure some probably think we are annoying assholes who should just go home and leave them alone? Sigh… :(

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm gonna stop you right there. Nationalism has a definition, and it isn't "wanting to make your own nation great again."

The entire rest of your post is predicated on nonsense.

Anyway, I just hope Kamala will eventually have a more definitive list of agendas of what she wants to do besides just running on the platform of defeating Trump... or saving democracy...

The high + energy level and audacity to hope and joy are all good, but I expect those things from God, not from my president. :p

[21Kid]

As an aside, I am a member of this FB group that is basically just people who live in our immediate community of maybe 10 mile radius. Generally it’s just locals promoting their business, lost/found animals etc. Well, because Florida, we are heavy on the republican side. And oftentimes posts come up saying “local (business named x) closing. So sad bidenomics claims another”. Etc…lots of stuff laced with anti democratic messages.

Now I don’t engage but I am not exaggerating when I say this…whenever people do engage with peaceful alternative theories about why the business closed (or whatever the subject), every single nasty reply with profanity or name calling is always done by the Republicans. The peaceful responses are dems and the nasty stuff is republicans. Have we devolved into troglodytes vs civilization? It’s so bad.

These are mostly older people like ourselves, because FB, and they are using their public profiles (family, kids etc). Posting shit they should be ashamed of…but they are loud and proud.

One lady said “…I’d rather grab em by the pussy than be a pussy”. It’s truly horrifying.I live in Orange County, CA...(Villa Park area) and it's a weird Red(turning purple) area in a blue state. We have a local FB group that I look at once in a while. But it's the exact same thing. I avoid it because it's just hate and factless name-calling/blaming all over the place. Every once in a while I feel like responding and go with the most centrist middle of the road response and get called all sorts of names. It's pretty sad really. How much hate these people have in their lives. I couldn't imagine living like that. Just rage posting at everything that isn't pro-MAGA.


I really do believe that a huge part of the current Republican party, especially the MAGA ones, is based 100% around owning the libs and nothing else. It's just tossing out insults and honestly just being mad at the progress that's been made over the past how ever many decades, from a black president to gay marriage to the ACA.They gave up on any policy ideas or platform at all.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I personally self identify more as a liberal, this may seem ridiculous to most of you, but anyways, I was glad to see that there are some conservative counterparts of mine on USA today: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/08/26/kamala-harris-republican-support-vote-trump/74914880007/

I guess we're the real 'centrists'? Thinking of just abstaining from this crazy election.

Best case scenario is Trump really became born again and does God's will? I honestly don't see a best case scenario for Harris. I don't really trust that she has the ability to properly lead...

Worst case scenario is wars spreading and inflation growing under Harris and overall craziness and minorities/racial tension worsening under Trump.

I also wish to go back to defining what is 'nationalism' and whether if its a right or left wing...

I think we can safely assume Nazi Party Nationalistic, right? It's full name: Socialist German Workers' Party sounds more right or left? Clearly they're right wing fascists, but their name is clearly leaning left, right? Surely they also promised Germans that they'll make Germany great again... and interestingly Nazi's also was promoting 'strength thru JOY!'

I have to admit the Trump GOP is definitely more like the Nazi party, but dems are slowly getting there too...

I most definitely welcome more disclosures about policies and platforms..., but do you guys really know what Kamala will do? What you didn't like about Biden, will Kamala do better? At this stage, I'm still not really convinced about that. Perhaps her momentum could beat Trump, but after beating Trump, then what?

I also recently read about Zuckerberg blaming Biden admins for censoring posts on FB. Tulsi Gabbard, dem turned Trump supporter, is also put on domestic terrorist watch list by Biden admin. Look, she may be a Russian asset, but is that really necessary? No wonder she's turning right. Similar to Elon Musk's shift... When you ignore him and claims that GM revolutionized EV industry and use the courts to try to claw back his pay, why would Elon continue to support you? It is also mind boggling why dem has became enemy of Elon, there must be some sort of back story that we are not aware about? Possibly one of Elon's tweets must've anger some top boss in DNC establishment?

Anyway, just saying that both parties are inching closer to become the next Nazi party. Our current economic/political conditions are also perfect for such party to gain power. Dangerous times ahead... Hope we can get thru this okay.

[Tom Servo]

There's one thing about that USA Today op-ed that caught my eye, in that it's "I understand why some are choosing to vote for Trump", and he calls out that Tim Walz "doesn't even believe in the freedom of speech." I completely agree with the author that Tim Walz is wrong there, you're absolutely in your free speech rights to make up bullshit all day long, and hate speech in and of itself is also protected speech. But I would have liked to see him point out that Trump has just recently been saying that you should get a mandatory one year prison sentence for burning the flag. The Supreme Court has already upheld that that's free speech. Walz might be wrong about freedom of speech (and he's hardly alone among politicians when it comes to that), but as far as I know he didn't say that he thinks people should be jailed for expressing themselves in a way he doesn't like. It's not so much a false equivalency as it is the author just avoiding the subject altogether and pretending it's not happening. It's like "I see why people would vote for the guy who has decapitated five people with his bare hands because did you see that other guy once punched someone in the face?!?"

Nationalism has a definition that is very different than you said before. But given your thoughts on the People's Republic of China, I'm surprised you would be so quick to say "but look, they put socialist right in their name! They must be socialist then, right?" And while you said you identify as a liberal, you keep bringing up GOP talking points. I literally just saw that "Strength through joy" thing start getting thrown around yesterday. Tell you what, though, if they literally start using the phrase "strength through joy" as the campaign catchphrase, like how Trump started literally using "America first" , then we can talk.

Okay...hang on. I hadn't heard of the Gabbard terrorist-watchlist thing, so I went to go see if there were any reputable sources reporting on it. Fox News keeps saying she was "reportedly" added to it, so they're couching it in "we have no proof" words. Spectrum news is pretty reputable, and then they say that this all started with a report from "Uncover DC" saying that "multiple whistleblowers" had told them that Gabbard had been added to this list. So I went to go look up Uncover DC. Their Editor-in-Chief is Tracy Beanz, who got her start as the person who literally started spreading the QAnon conspiracy theory on YouTube back in 2017, she's the one that helped it leap from the chans to the mainstream. She's literally patient zero. Check out https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/how-three-conspiracy-theorists-took-q-sparked-qanon-n900531, she also goes by Tracy Diaz. HAHAHAHAHAHA, incredible stuff. Very trustworthy source, not at all nonsense.

This does, however, I think get us to one of the core problems here. That took me five minutes of research, to find out that literally one of the first QAnon vloggers is in charge of the "news" organization that reported this in the first place and there's literally no other evidence other than Gabbard claiming that things seem different. Tracy Beanz is about as far from a reputable source as you can get. Just because you read it doesn't mean it's true. Look to see if anybody actually reputable reported on it. Look for evidence being shown. This is just more bullshit on the internet, and I'm not surprised that Jim Jordan is all up in arms about it because that's his MO now. Find some bit of misinformation nonsense that he thinks will get his followers all bent out of shape and then do a little performative outrage, followed by asking for donations.

But this is how the right wing misinformation sphere works. One lunatic with a website and a social media presence says that "sources tell them that blah blah HAARP blah blah chemtrails blah blah Gabbard on watch list." Then it gets amplified by sock puppet accounts on social media until it breaks through to the right-wing ecosphere of "news outlets", with names like "Straight Arrow News" and "Real America's Voice". Then the griftiest of politicians like Marjorie Taylor Green, Matt Gaetz, and/or Jim Jordan pick up on it and lend it credence. Fox News will report just carefully enough, saying something "reportedly" or "allegedly" happened. Then people read these things and hear them and don't bother to look at where the report came from, whether the people reporting it have a history of this sort of idiocy, if they have any evidence, if they've shown themselves to be trustworthy. Next thing you know, weeks later, someone's on the GTX posting it as absolute fact that she's been put on a "domestic terrorist watch list by Biden admin." The lie has already run around the globe a few times and the truth is just getting out of the gate, but it's too late. Because so many of these lies have been going around for so long that other lies, like Biden censoring posts on social media "support" the new lie. And it just builds, and builds, and builds.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If only Snowden got a fair trial, I’d tend to believe Tulsi was BSing about being harassed by TSA agents. Hey, reputable MSM never reported it, must be false? How about the biggest story of the world? Was it lab leak or not? No evidences either way, but leak must be a lie!

FB could also very well be lying about censorship or just want to shift blame to a lame duck president?

If only our government could be more transparent, it’d be very difficult for these lies to go around and around. I can understand W doesn’t want transparency, but was it better under Obama? Are you sure Biden is that transparent? google CNN and find out!


https://youtu.be/e_gkEviOWIk?si=WHwRf1rb9L4OqD0D
12:47 is where Dems started to be joyful! ;)

[Cam]

I saw an America First flag recently... on a Toyota. :lol:

[Tom Servo]

Dude. Tracy Beanz. She still runs a podcast called "Dark to Light", which is a QAnon catchphrase. Tracy. Fucking. Beanz.

Also, a lack of evidence is not evidence. But also. Beanz. Tracy Beanz. Someone who has spent the past 7 years making a life for herself by repeating conspiracy theories for engagement.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Conspiracy theory cannot possibly spread if we have a transparent society.

Yes, lack of evidences... what's the difference between that and no evidences?

Without evidence, we cannot conclusively prove the origin of Covid 19. Why must we brand lab leak believers as racists?

Of course, some times we can have plenty of evidences for a round earth and that won't convince flat earthers... however, I'm pretty sure a flat earther cannot possibly win in a general election. Once we have real truth, conspiracy theories cannot possibly be spread very far by anyone...

It's known long before we can't trust W and GOP; however, Obama and Biden are also not willing to give us more transparency. One way or another, we also end up with more wars... unstoppable forever wars...

But hopefully President Harris will really be the president of Joy and bring peace to the world...

However, I tend to see both bubbles deviating from actual reality. Each side believing in their own version of truth and can't help but see the other side as liars. CNN itself has fact checked some altered truths told in DNC convention. For sure both side lies, that's why I hesitate to support either side. Yes, the other side is definitely MORE evil, but can you help point me to the good things on the liberal side to help ease my mind about voting for Kamala? Can you really build a case FOR Kamala without involving evil Trump or Q?

You may skip joy. :p

Of course I can understand if defeating Trump is your top priority, then naturally you have to vote Kamala. That's fine. It's just that for me, evil is evil. Hard for me to figure out exactly which is less or more. I'll just let the rest of Americans decide which poison they prefer.

[Tom Servo]

Ugh.

I mean...I did your homework for you. I tracked down the primary news article. Found out what organization wrote it and what kind of history the people involved have. I followed them to the primary source, which appears to be some woman that started her own organization that ostensibly is to provide legal support to air marshals but has no other credentials nor any actual connection to homeland security, air marshals themselves, or any governmental group. They have provided no evidence at all to back up these claims. And all you can say is "well, it's everyone else's fault that I believed it."

There is nothing more that I can do for you. It only took me like 10 minutes of digging and another 5-10 minutes of writing things and apparently that's more than you're willing to do, because it's telling you want you want to believe and what you want to hear. You want to believe there's Naziism encroaching on both sides, so anything that supports that is true, even if there's no evidence. If you want to be a willing participant in the bullshit ecosphere and let absolutely made up nonsense guide your sense of what needs to be done, I can't stop you.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You can stop me by building a good evidence based case for Kamala.

[Rare White Ape]

I saw an America First flag recently... on a Toyota. :lol:

Damn cheatin Yoders :mad:

[Crazed_Insanity]

I want to post a feel good story of my own I recently saw on FB: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes

Gist if it is a black musician set out to befriend a KKK member. All started with having sit down dinners…

In the end, ~200 KKK members turned in their robes!

Moral of the story? If KKK can be converted, surely somebody like roofer can be converted? If not conversion, at least we can still maintain friendship?

[Tom Servo]

I know I should know better, but sometimes I just see Billi post something so out there that he *has* to feel some level of shame repeating it. Like, an unsubstantiated rumor that is supported solely by a report from a notorious QAnon influencer and Gabbard's vibes should evoke some sense of shame, not "if everyone was transparent, then I wouldn't believe this stuff." But, like, it's couched around this claim that the Biden administration made Facebook censor right-wing posts. Zuckerberg, who I didn't realize we all now think is this bastion of goodness, claims Facebook was pressured to remove some Covid 19 disinformation. This isn't news. The administration literally said in press briefings that it was asking Facebook to do this. There's no claim that the admin threatened them with fines, jailtime, or any sort of state-power retaliation. The admin didn't hide any of this because it's completely allowed to do it.

In the meantime, you've got Trump claiming that that extends to censoring right-wing voices in the leading up to the 2020 election. Ya know, despite the fact that it was *his administration* during that, not Biden's.

The thing is, Billi says that if everyone were just more transparent, he wouldn't believe these things, but when they are more transparent, he just finds ways to say they're still not transparent enough. The goal posts themselves could become transparent, it still wouldn't be enough. It never will be. He doesn't care that he is literally exacerbating the misinformation problem we have right now, it's everyone else's fault that he falls for it.

He started his post saying he identifies as liberal, but then just literally spouts far-right talking points that even the tiniest bit of effort would refute. Billi - I hope your wife is just like Cheryl Hines and you can keep pretending to be a liberal while she dutifully stands by, pretending like none of this is happening. In the meantime, I'm writing this out to remind myself to stop trying. Like others have said, probably not good for anyone's blood pressure to bother trying. But, I know I am weak, and I will make this mistake again sooner rather than later. So, apologies in advance.

In the meantime, try not to decapitate any whales or anything.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think I'm lucky that my wife is politically bi (but left leaning) like me and also a Christian... of course, we do have our differences still, but thank God we're not polar opposites or else our marriage will definitely be screwed! I think personality wise we may be polar opposites? So we're also definitely far from happily ever after! :p

Main reason why I self identify as left leaning is because I am pro-gay marriage and I am pro-choice, not for abortion, but pro-choice. I tend to think most conservative Christians would probably never agree with us. Lastly, I haven't known any conservatives who likes Bernie Sanders... so anyways...

You are still so hung up on what's wrong with Trump and what's wrong with Billi...

I think you obviously should also know the problems with with Biden/Harris, but since you find Trump more threatening, you're compelled to support dems anyways. I get that. However, I hope you understand that I don't find lesser of 2 evils okay. I don't believe we should be friends of our enemies in foreign politics... I don't think presidents should be able to censor social media at all. Fight conspiracy theories with the best truth you can present with your own press release. If people don't give it as many likes as you want, so what? Nobody like Jesus... at least not enough to save him from being crucified. Even Pete used ignore feature on him..., but Truth can never be crushed nor buried.

I hope you also understand how I'm turning more and more sour on the DNC seeing them screw with Bernie Sanders' bid again and again.

Also as Jon Stewart pointed out, the self proclaimed party of joy, who reserves the right to fuck you up with superior firepower whenever they feel necessary!

I sincerely hope someday a new kind of leadership will rise up that can really lead us to the right place, rather than just blame the other side and claiming to be less evil than the other side.

In the mean time, take care of your blood pressure, we'll chat later. :p

[Tom Servo]

Mike Masnick writes it up better than I ever could.

https://www.techdirt.com/2024/08/28/trumps-accidental-admission-and-zuckerbergs-surrender-the-real-takeaways-from-metas-letter/

I am begging you to do some critical thinking and stop being a credulous tool for people like Jim Jordan.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Suckerberg is obviously spineless. Even without Mark, Jim, Tulsi,... government surveillance/interference will still always hang over my head thanks to Edward Snowden.

Let's even forget Snowden...

Just ask Mario and YW and see how they like US government messing around the world... even under liberal US presidents.

GOP bad and evil. Yes.

All I'm asking is we ought to also stop enabling Dem presidents as well.

I know you hate Trump, GOP, Jordan Peterson, Elon Musk... and sometimes even Billi... :p

However, what do you like about Biden/Harris? Can you share that?

Besides grading on a curve... if it's just a straight up contract extention, would you extend the contract and let him be your president for 4 more years? If yes, why?

I just would not want to extend contracts for either Trump or Biden. I fear Harris will simply be same as Biden and now dems have possibly additional 4 years if Trump freaking runs again in another 4 freaking years...

I really cannot imagine having to deal with Trump in another 4 years... in a way, I kinda want to get it over with... :p

[Kchrpm]

Seems like this thread is still going the usual direction.

How about the musical roll call? Turn Down for What? From the windows to VP Walz! Til the sweat drop down my balls!

[Tom Servo]

The musical roll call was pretty damn cool, I thought. As someone who's not super into that style, I thought it was funny that I mostly knew Lil' Jon through The Celebrity Apprentice. The California choices were pretty good, though me being the metalhead I am, I wish it'd be Slayer or Suicidal Tendencies or whatever, but hey, I got Gojira in the Olympics so I'm okay.

And sorry for the hijack. I am hoping that other people will see that and think "if a news story seems ludicrous, maybe I should see where it came from" and follow that trail. I know I keep saying it, but the fact that somebody on here brought up something that Tracy fucking Beanz reported as though it were fact just absolutely blows my mind. I promise I'll be good for a few months. Or maybe weeks. Something like that. That part that maybe annoys me the most is that I can't compare Tracy Beanz to someone else who's just constantly full of shit because she's in a class of her own, and I love a good metaphor.

[21Kid]

I was hoping there'd be more musicians repping their state.

But I was surprised by the young and old ladies from West Virginia. They killed it.

[Tom Servo]

For sure. I hope that the DNC was better about actually getting permission to play the songs they did, but at least when people actually show up and perform you know that they were okay with it. I guess we weren't going to see Tupac for CA either way though, and I think it's fair that he might have had a problem with his song being played for a state prosecutor.

[Leon]

"if a news story seems ludicrous, maybe I should see where it came from"

I've encountered that on an alarmingly racist share from a motorsport person I only know through taking photos of his car at rally events. So I pointed out who funded that video, and that they had a clear agenda.

His reply "but it's true anyway".

This is a true story of why I deleted a boomer off my FB friends list.

[Crazed_Insanity]

While we could deduce possible agendas based on who funds the 'propaganda', but to right away discount something like that and even to unfriend people too dumb to know the difference is kinda extreme IMHO. However, you do what you gotta do I guess.

Anyway, back to Swervo, I really had no clue who the hell is Tracy Beanz. I heard about TSA harassing her from Tulsi's own lips. Granted, it looks like her interview was on FOX, but if she's a liar, they I hope the congressional investigation will prove her a liar. However, for something like this, it'll likely end with nobody able to know the real truth like Covid origin.

Some things are more easily knowable... such as RFK jr.'s use of Nazi dog whistle. We can't know for sure, but at least based on the evidences we all could find, I think you guys were right on that one. There are also so many BS going on with RFK jr's personal life that it's clear the guy should not be president or any public office!

However, same cannot be said about Tulsi though. Maybe she is a Russian asset, but couldn't they charge her with something if there's evidence of something like that? Supposedly she's still using military IDs so she' still active or perhaps just reserve? Anyway, if they can prove that she's a russian asset with evidence, surely they can put her away?

Anyway, RFK Jr. is a joke is one thing, but the Kennedy family's bond being so strong that rape, drugs, adultery, DUI won't ever break the bond between family members..., but crossing over to the other side will cause you to be disowned though... :p

Perhaps Tulsi's crime of crossing over to the other is also unforgivable that way.

Personally, I really don't think either side owns the real truth. Both sides could lie.

There's absolutely no reason why we all must believe there couldn't be a lab leak. I'm also not set on believing it must be a lab leak... it could be from the wet market... I'm just saying we ought not just pick a side, without real evidence, and just stick with it and hate all who refuse to believe in the same thing...

Sure, Tulsi could be working with Tracy Beanz and just lying out of her teeth? That's definitely possible. However, I tend to think Tulsi was 'pushed' to the right by incidents like that. Clearly dems did not like Tulsi and Bernie. Bernie is an old man and friend of Biden. He knew he was screwed, but what can he do? Consolation was at least his 'friend' won. For Tulsi, she's not going to end up like Bernie... also being in the military, it'll probably be easier to fit in there on the right?

Bottomline is that I do like Tulsi enough to actually vote for her... regardless of her party affiliation. However, it's unlikely for her to win nomination from either party I think... of course if congressional investigation proves that Tulsi's lying, then she can go live with RFK jr. forever in my heart. :p

[Tom Servo]

Argh, why did I click "View Post"

I don't think Gabbard is working with Tracy Beanz. I also don't expect anybody specifically to know about Tracy Beanz, though when you see someone named "Tracy Beanz" is the editor-in-chief of the news org that reported this, maybe look into that person. I know about her because I have a fascination with conspiracy theorists and how they work, so she's a household name for me. I do not expect that to be the case for anybody who isn't riddled with brain worms like I am. I do, however, have an expectation that if you say things as though they were a fact and I can point out that the story came from someone like that, and tell you why that person is untrustworthy, that you do not defend the story that they have concocted. I have no expectations that you will know these things, but I expect you to react like a normal person when confronted with reality.

Here's my theory. It's purely conjecture. Tracy's website does what it normally does, credulously reports anything that might hurt the people they don't like. They don't bother confirming anything, they use official sounding names for unofficial orgs to try to make it sound more trustworthy, the usual way that these people work. Gabbard has a standing google search/alert for her own name (Hell, I have a standing alert for Cuda's last name, so it's not out of the question) and she sees this story. She travels a lot, so confirmation bias kicks in. Every time the TSA process isn't as smooth as can be, that's evidence that this is all true.

She becomes more standoffish with the TSA because now she "knows" that she's on a list. They, in turn, see a passenger acting like a dick and put her through some extra screening. This becomes a feedback loop. She both exacerbates the problem and uses that as proof that there is a problem. She goes on Fox News and uses this as proof that the unsubstantiated rumor is true.

In the meantime, there's no *actual* evidence that any of this happened. She claims there are air marshals on her flights, but how would she know? There are air marshals on lots of flights and part of the thing is that you don't know if they're there or not. I've been hassled by the TSA on occasion, that's not proof I'm on a no-fly list. I have Pre-Check and Global Entry, so presumably I'm not. I'm willing to bet Gabbard also at least has Pre-Check, so presumably she isn't either.

Again - it's an ecosystem. I'm not saying Gabbard is a Russian asset. I'm not saying she's working with Tracy Beanz to concoct an evil scheme. I assume, like you (and most normal-brained people) she has no fucking idea who Tracy Beanz is and doesn't care. But she's a credulous dope who is willing to amplify idiocy instead of actually seek out an answer, and she's all too willing to do the work to amplify grifters. As are you.

Ultimately, though, just think about it. This would be so weirdly petty. Put someone who is ultimately an inconsequential loudmouth on a TSA watchlist to be hassled at the airport? She still gets to fly, and now you've got a bunch of minimum wage TSA agents who might just loudly announce that she's on a list. The risk vs. reward makes absolutely no fucking sense. This would never happen. Not even Trump would be this fucking dumb. The story is insane, and the fact that Gabbard believes it is a damning point against her mental faculties, and anybody else who reads it and believes it to be true should really take a step back and think about their critical thinking skills.

EDIT: Maybe a good correlation is the JD Vance fucking his couch thing. I'm not aware of anyone who thinks that that's actually true, it's just hilarious. We all know he didn't. What's funny is the reaction to it and that there's a trait he has that makes you think "actually, it probably did happen."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Man, I appreciate your insight... and your conjecture/theory may be true too.

If this story is indeed true, naturally the government won't admit to it. If it's not true, naturally Tulsi and Beanz will want to make it look true. What is the real truth? We just might never know just like Covid origin.

You see, this is how conspiracy theories happen... and then each side will adamantly believe their side is true and neither side actually has the evidence to back things up or disprove anything. Conspiracy theorists definitely has some blame, but the fact that government doesn't want to give Snowden a fair trial certainly contributed to all this, right?

I will file this away in the same category as Covid origins... TBD... perhaps indefinitely.

As long as it's indeterminant, I shall remain skeptical of both sides.

If you really want me to believe something without evidence, I can only believe Jesus. Otherwise, please present your evidence, then I will stop being agnostic about it. Without evidences, I just don't want to pick any sides when it comes to politics.

Again, I sincerely appreciate your insights, I shall move on so that I won't elevate your blood pressure any longer! :p

Regarding JD Vance's sofa story, I'm not sure that's as serious as this watch list thing even if that is true... It's all about making fun about your opposition... probably more like the 'let's go Brandon!' thing? They're kinda funny, but sad at the same time that both sides have now degenerated down the same level...

[Tom Servo]

Conspiracy theories happen partially because sometimes the truth is unknowable. To go to your Covid analogy - if it never came from a lab leak, then you probably will never actually know the specific origin. If it was a zoonotic transmission, we will likely never know the specific animal that transmitted it to the specific person.

It's okay to not know an answer. Sometimes we'll never have it. We just have our best guess based on where the evidence guides us. Not having that specific answer doesn't mean the other answer is correct or even has an equal chance of being correct. You don't have to both-sides things.

Also, "Let's Go Brandon" is about as funny as Rob Schneider. To go back to evidence, it's scientifically less funny than couch-fucking.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Unfortunately I do often both side things and thus able to laugh at both jokes! :p

Back to Covid analogy, even if we don't have the evidence to figure out exactly what's its origin... even including the possible lab leak... there's really no reason for it to get so political.

Why should we even need to fight about it? So what if it is lab leak? So what if it's NOT? Important part is to figure out what went wrong and we should try to fix it in order to prevent it from happening again! Having American liberals and conservatives fighting about it achieves what exactly? As it was, we are lead to think we should not even consider the possibility of a lab leak... or otherwise you'll be branded as a racist. Why? Even if Chinese labs are superior and probability of a leak is so tiny, why must we exclude that possibility right off the bat? To me, that just look suspicious. Why are we defending the Chinese like that? Long a behold... GOP dug up info about how US taxpayer money was used to fund some of those research. Making things even more suspicious. Originally I was just upset at CCP, now I'm upset with the US too... and I'm now branded as racist against the Chinese. Yeah, whatever you guys say...

It'd be nice if we can figure out what exactly they were researching. Why they couldn't even predict the incoming doom. If they're that ineffective, maybe we should shut them down... because fact is nothing is fool proof. If it didn't leak then, it might leak in the future. If the benefit is so small, why risk it? What was the benefit from that lab is what I'd like to know..., but I'm sure nobody really cares at this point. Next time around WHO will continue to applaud how China did a great job! While we fight amongst ourselves, the problem remains unsolved. It's not just the pandemic... remember financial crisis?

The strategy is to just have the people just fight amongst themselves while they carrying on with their shit behind people's back. Putin and the terrorists... are they really evil or perhaps our government provoked them? Those are also unknowable answers... so we shall keep fighting wars forever and ever while we fight amongst ourselves at home forever and ever?

We can stop it. Some black musician converted some KKK assholes. Chances of such conversion is very very low, but still possible. We don't have to keep fighting. We don't have to immediately unfriend friends because they crossed that political line...

Of course if it is necessary to stay in your own bubble for your health's sake, by all means stay healthy 1st. If you are indeed allergic to something, you definitely need to stay away. I'm not trying to judge anybody... I was just encouraging JoeW to be more open minded... I wasn't accusing him of being close minded.

[neanderthal]

Swervo.
You're a much better human than I am. Hat tip.

I didn't even read a single one of his responses (growth, amirite?!?!?!?!?) but I could feel myself getting angry just reading your rebuttals.

You're a good egg mate.

[Tom Servo]

Naah, I'm a massive dumbass for even looking.

It's just that this specific thing falls into my wheelhouse. There's a disinformation engine that's been running along and it almost always uses the same playbook. The red flag was seeing Billi post something as though it were fact when it a) hasn't shown up to anybody not tuned into the weirder parts of the right-wing news ecosphere and b) seemed like crazy talk. It didn't take long to figure out what it was, and I got lucky on getting a hit on someone I've known about for years (though finding out she's got a new outlet, "Uncover DC", was surprising!) I actually didn't even plan to respond at all until I saw Tracy Beanz pop up. All of a sudden I was like "Oh goody, I know exactly what's happening here!"

To me, this is way more important than convincing Billi. That ship sailed long ago. But having such a specific example of how absolute bullshit makes it from an internet weirdo to Fox News in the course of a month felt important to talk about. The part that sucks about Billi is that he'll post something entirely based on easily disprovable idiocy - the entire novel he'll write will be predicated on something that's complete bullshit, and when you point out that the initial premise is wrong, he'll just double down and say "well, it could have been real" or "how do we even know what's real" or some other non-sentence, and at that point you're just in his fantasy world and there's nowhere you can go but down. So I'm trying to be very deliberate about writing things for an audience that's not Billi. I'm not sure I'm great at that, but I am trying.

And also for the record, I'm not trying to be a dick about Billi either. I know he means well. He's got severe internet brain worms and believes that the thing that makes the least sense is the most likely answer. Unless the evidence 100% proves something, the answer must be the thing the evidence doesn't point to. He's not alone in this, there are swaths of people like this and we have an entire business that now relies on this and milks people who think like that for money. And, like Billi, a lot of these people are entrenched enough that it's part of their identity to dig in their heels and refuse to look at reality, so it's a lucrative market. I wish it were different, but it is what it is.

In the end, at some point in the near future, someone in your life will use the "fact" that Tulsi Gabbard got put on a list by the Biden administration for nothing more than endorsing his opponent and they will use that as justification for why they won't vote for Harris, and hopefully every single person that's read anything I've written will know that that person is extremely stupid and not to be listened to. If that situation happens to even one single person reading this, then I am happy with what I've done.

Ideally, at the end of all of this, Billi would think "my goodness, I've been one of the disinformation vectors that I've complained about in the past. I am the problem!" and attempt to change his ways. But we do not live in an ideal world, and I do not expect that to be the outcome. However, like him, I like living in my dream world where he suddenly becomes a critical thinker and I stop being a dick to people. You might say I'm a dreamer. And I'm not the only one. Maybe someday you'll join us. And this place might be less shitty.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Don’t worry about being a dick, when you’re upset, you get upset… at least I know you mean well too.

I like to both side things but neither side likes me though… roofer can get upset at me too! ;)

So I kinda doubt I’m the type who would amplify disinformation, because nobody would agree with me! If anything, I’m a damper of information? :D

I think we ought to have very low expectations of changing minds in this thread, but just use the opportunity try to understand each other more.

Just finished watching Kamala’s CNN interview. It wasn’t too bad but not great either. Not sure if it moved the needle much for me either way.

I suspect debate(s) will end similarly with MAGA folks thinking Trump won and you guys thinking she won…

I still don’t feel like voting for either…

[Rare White Ape]

Also, "Let's Go Brandon" is about as funny as Rob Schneider. To go back to evidence, it's scientifically less funny than couch-fucking.

There’s a big difference between “Let’s go Brandon” and JD Vance fucking a couch:

LGB was used by people too cowardly to say Fuck Joe Biden. They’d replace it with ‘clean’ language so as to not feel like they’re upsetting anyone or pushing any limits, despite the fact that what they are actually saying was layered in eye-winking vulgarity because everyone knew what they were really saying.

Meanwhile those that joke about JD Vance fucking a couch will just straight up say that they find it funny that there’s a story floating around about Vance-Fouton relations and make memes about JD Vance fucking a couch. All the while proving that the left are much better memesters than right-wingers are.

[Tom Servo]

You also get the opportunity for objectively great jokes like "When I get that feeling, I need sectional healing."

[Cam]

:lol:

[Rare White Ape]

You can also adapt any old furniture joke and make it about Vance too.

When JD Vance is fucking your couch he is as good as a broken sofa bed: he never pulls out.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If something is funny to you, your laugh. If you don’t laugh, than it’s not funny to you. In a way, politics is like humor too. It’s kinda pointless arguing about whether if something is funny. We also don’t have to pretend something is funny to go along with the crowd.

If a comedian/joke is funny, then the comedian will make lots of money and the joke can become viral on YouTube or whatever… if not funny, then they’ll likely die or disappear of natural causes.

Problem with people’s mentality today is that people can easily get offended and wish to ban even comedy! Arguing about whether or not something is funny and wish to change people’s minds is also not very likely…, but we could try to understand why some things are funny to some.

On a personal level, I rarely feel offended but could often time miss the joke though. So I just like to understand more. Even upon further understanding, doesn’t mean I will finally be able to laugh with the joke, but understanding is better than no understanding.

[Tom Servo]

Him going to Ikea must be what it was like when I saw the Swedish Bikini Team posters as a kid.

[George]

Whatever happened to the Swedish Bikini Team anyway?

Maybe they should do a reunion tour.

[Tom Servo]

It's funny you say this, but I ended up in a Wikihole about them this morning. Turns out they weren't Swedish. And it was an advertising campaign created by Old Milwaukee.

I think I'm ultimately relieved that it turns out I don't think Swedes are hot.

[FaultyMario]

I think I'm ultimately relieved that it turns out I don't think Swedes are hot.

GTFO!

Polish-rooted Swedes are hot AF.

[Tom Servo]

The only way Swedes are hot is because they're the embodiment of the devil's fire.

(As a half-Norwegian, I am legally obligated to point out that Swedes suck at any and every opportunity. Please do not blame me, it's the law.)

[Tom Servo]

Gonna sit back and eat some popcorn while watching Elon find out what a lack of freedom-of-speech really means, now that Brazil has banned X/Twitter.

[Rare White Ape]

I’ll accept no slander against Swedes thank you.

But I will accept the schadenfreude that comes along with Musk fucking around and finding out.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/aug/30/elon-musk-x-could-face-ban-in-brazil-after-failure-to-appoint-legal-representative

[Yw-slayer]

Hey Tom, I wasn’t ignoring you. Just been mad busy at work.

I fully appreciate the time and thought that you put into that response. I understand where you are coming from. There are issues with the types of experience that you mentioned, but they also exist with backpacking. The way the former is handled can be improved to become meaningful. At the same time, backpacking can be reduced to a similarly token, or even worse disrespectful experience (begpacking is an obvious example). There are also many ways destinations can be viewed. Without going into unnecessary detail, let me just say that I doubt everyone is as respectful as you are of your destinations (perhaps it’s your having Norwegian roots - reminds me of the respectful attitude that my Swedish-Hungarian friend) and perhaps we can leave it at that.

I was last at the World Exhibits/Pavilion(?) section of Epcot around 30 years ago, mainly because at the time they had, to us, the most palatable food in the park. I can’t say whether they’ve since improved in any way, but I hope the food is better!

[Tom Servo]

I completely assumed you were busy, I like to think most of us have lives outside the forum.

And I think that's fair. We certainly have very different views of that way of experiencing the world. There's not a lot of backpacking here, and my view of it is basically that you're immersing yourself in another culture, which to me feels like a great thing, but I can understand that it might not be what I imagine. It's entirely possible backpacking has a very different reputation outside of the US, for me it's usually a sign of someone who doesn't want to just stay at the Ritz-Carlton in whatever country they're going to but try to experience the place they're visiting. That said, backpacking culture isn't a big thing here, so I'm probably speaking from a place of ignorance.

I also guarantee the food at Epcot isn't better. Nothing Disney provides is going to be challenging or interesting or delicious.

And RWA, you will absolutely accept slander against the Swedes because they deserve it. The last time I dealt directly with a Swede she tried to drunkenly give me fermented shark. The big boat museums in Oslo are for the Kon-Tiki, a ship that sailed from Africa to South America and The Fram, a ship that sailed to the poles. In Stockholm, their museum is for The Vasa, which promptly sank as soon as it hit the water.

It's not slander if it's true, they're a deeply troubled people.

(To be clear, again, I'm legally obligated to say stuff like this. Stockholm is one of my favorite cities and Swedes are great. But they're also terrible and need to be mocked.)

[FaultyMario]

Pepe Mujica has announced he is leaving this mortal coil soon.

"They treated me with radiology and my body is undone, I want to be remembered as a crazy old man. Humanity needs to work less and have more free time". I am paraphrasing.



This is what he said about my country:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GWProZHXYAAIbhM.jpg

"You live in the richest land and you can see the power in the hands of the poorest brains".

[Yw-slayer]

All understood, my man. The Ritz-Carlton and most of the Marriott group hotels in Asia (that I’ve stayed in) are great, BTW.

[21Kid]

I didn't even read a single one of his responses (growth, amirite?!?!?!?!?) but I could feel myself getting angry just reading your rebuttals.
I stopped reading the rebuttals awhile ago. Unfortunately I probably miss some other discussion if it's in the same post. But I don't have the time/patience anymore.

I am here for all the couch jokes however. 😂

[Cam]

Sofa, so good?

[MR2 Fan]

Sofa King good

[Crazed_Insanity]

Sofa king happy for you! :p

[Tom Servo]

If you're looking for a good time, go on Twitter and watch people like Tim Pool and Dave Rubin desperately trying to cover their asses now that it turns out they've been being paid with money laundered from Russia Today. It's been a gloriously hilarious day.

My favorite joke so far was "I was approached by a tall man and a short woman who offered to pay me to write critical articles about two entities called 'Moose and Squirrel.' I had no idea they were Russian."

Just 'cause I know a certain someone will say something - we all know Russia attempts to meddle in our elections. I assume we do the same with theirs. All major countries engage in propaganda. It's just fun to watch a bunch of douchebags get caught being part of the apparatus and suddenly being like "we're the victims here!"

[Kchrpm]

You also get the opportunity for objectively great jokes like "When I get that feeling, I need sectional healing."

The last couple weeks I've had a trivia team at my shows named "I did not have sectional relations with that couch", and I always say it with a little bit of a Bill Clinton impression.

[Tom Servo]

I feel like that's better than the team we've had a couple of times, "JD Vance is sofa king weird." It feels like our local team hasn't really thought the joke all the way through.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Sofa, I think the VP candidates are better than the presidential candidates. I’d be much happier if it were a race between just Walz and Dance… and then regardless who wins, hopefully there can be sectional healing for our nation…

[FaultyMario]

RT coverage is pretty ok in my neck of the woods.

Much better than those colonial hit pieces from the NYT, FT and WSJ.

[Tom Servo]

RT is literally Kremlin propaganda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)).

[Crazed_Insanity]

Everything is propaganda.

If we agree with their report, we think they're okay. If we disagree with their report, then we call it propaganda. It's all relative, right?

I also kinda doubt russians are sending us any specific propaganda as they 'meddle'. Surely their main objective is to sow discord in the US and hopefully get us into a civil war. Then the rest of the world shall be free from US meddling for the time being.

[Tom Servo]

World class both-sidesing. The NYTimes is swooning.

[FaultyMario]

It balances out, then.

[Rare White Ape]

GENIUS

CORPORTATE

DEITITY

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/twitters-revenue-collapses-84-tesla-171535190.html?guccounter=1

[Crazed_Insanity]

Didn’t the genius cut payroll by 75%?

The whopping 85% drop in revenue in only few 100 million… assuming the layoffs weren’t enough to cover the loss revenue, not sure he really has to liquidate Tesla stocks to cover missing X revenue…

I’m more worried about Trump giving him cabinet position… further distracting Elno from actually building stuffs…

[Tom Servo]

If you think that the mouthpiece of the guy whose political rivals keep falling out of windows when they're not suddenly dying in Siberian work prison camps is as trustworthy as other world media, do I have a polonium milkshake to sell you!

It's so good you won't even taste the polonium, and it is *to die for*

[Tom Servo]

To quote Andy Richter: "For me, having Dick Cheney vote for Kamala Harris is sort of like finding out the Hillside Strangler was a Cubs fan"

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:qzuw62ra5pgoy7ohoaj4gd7v/bafkreia755mlqpw6b4vxeual6f3wlvxlx577aoybt4nf3mlns vpiirjpqu@jpeg

[FaultyMario]

If you think that the mouthpiece of the guy whose political rivals keep falling out of windows when they're not suddenly dying in Siberian work prison camps is as trustworthy as other world media, do I have a polonium milkshake to sell you!

You make it sound like western interests do not participate in disinformation campaigns (https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/) or clandestine operations.

[Tom Servo]

No I don't. Literally three days ago when I started talking about this I said exactly that.

But I do make it sound like both-sidesing it is nonsense. Putin is arguably one of the worst authoritarian dictators around right now with a long history of attacking his neighbors, jailing his political opponents when he can't outright assassinate them, and doing everything possible to remain in power. He's like Trump, but smart. Arguing that his mouthpiece is the same as the rest of the world's media is a very Billi stance. In fact, he made the *exact same* argument you made just a couple of days ago.

Lemme put it this way: We know all major powers conduct propaganda and disinformation campaigns. But to proudly be like "Well, this one seems pretty ok!" is maybe not a great take, especially when you know for a fact they are one of those propaganda and disinformation engines vs. being an actual news source? It'd be like me saying "Sure, I know their history, but the Washington Times and the Epoch Times both seem pretty legit!!"

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think it should be clear to most what Putin and Xi are like and surely things will never end well for their types. However, I don’t see the problem with both siding about their lameness!

W and Cheney endorsing Kamala… you are proud of that? Somehow that makes Kamala look better? Really? Think about it… if W ran using the dem ticket, would you also blindly vote for him? Because surely he’ll be less evil that whatever GOP has to offer?

Likewise with Rob Schneider switching sides… okay, you’re pissed with Newsom, that mean he owns the party and you MUST switch to the other side?

Enemies of your enemy often are not really your friends. I failed to understand why we must pick a polarizing side or another. Aren’t true centrists both siding on issues? Gray is both siding black and white. We’re all gray! Stop pretending that you are black or white and then try to kill each other over this BS side issues…

Yes, Kamala is the lesser evil, but face it, both candidates are lame.

Is our nation and the world better off 3.5 yrs ago?

Did Trump really nearly destroy the world?

I think we can leave the pandemic part out for a most because that was kinda out of anyone’s control….

Personally I don’t want 4 more years of either, but I will respect whatever our election outcome is.

As for hit pieces, remember how YW see everything western msm as propaganda hit piece? That’s how you see RT I guess. I’m sure even RT could sometimes come up with unbiased feel good stories? Putin probably doesn’t have time to check everything?

[FaultyMario]

It'd be like me saying "Sure, I know their history, but the Washington Times and the Epoch Times both seem pretty legit!!"

Ok, gotcha.

[neanderthal]

Anytime there is a mass shooting, remember, Bernie FUCKING Sanders is the reason why we can't hold gun manufacturers accountable.