Politics

[overpowered]

Two men who backed Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy in his standoff with federal officers in 2014 have struck plea bargains with federal prosecutors.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/08/29/first-guilty-pleas-entered-2014-nevada-standoff-blm

Even with a plea bargain, these idiots are getting multi-year prison sentences. Good. It looks like their fear of the reality of spending decades in prison was a bit stronger than their self righteous resolve.

Other morons from this group are apparently going to trial. I hope they end up going away for the rest of their lives.

[Yw-slayer]

Don't hold back man, you should feel free to let us REALLY know how you feel.

[drew]

Replace them all with black people, or, Muslims, in that situation, and then imagine the response of the initial "occupation".

Bunch of white hickfucks, meh, mail them dildos and let them wave guns in front of cops for days.

Replace them with any minority group, and it would have been a massacre within 2 hours.

So, fuck them, I wish them nothing but the best getting cornholed on a daily basis for many years.

[MR2 Fan]

Hillary has Pneumonia

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/11/politics/hillary-clinton-health/index.html?adkey=bn&sr=fbcnni091116hillary-clinton-health-conspiracy-theory-explained0954PMStoryLink&linkId=28622226

[FaultyMario]

Not a fan of hers, but it'd really suck on a personal level if someone had to give up a lifelong dream after so much time and effort devoted to it.

On the other hand, Bernie bitches!

[MR2 Fan]

Not a fan of hers, but it'd really suck on a personal level if someone had to give up a lifelong dream after so much time and effort devoted to it.

On the other hand, Bernie bitches!

We'd better start looking at Tim Kaine.

Anyway, I hate to be morbid, but I wonder what the historical context of this is...if any presidential candidate has passed away before the election, would the VP candidate automatically be the new nominee?

[Phil_SS]

IMO, if they were smart, Bernie would be the candidate.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The establishment would never allow Bernie to replace Hillary... If something happens, I'm 99% sure it'll go to Tim.

[neanderthal]

Replace them all with black people, or, Muslims, in that situation, and then imagine the response of the initial "occupation".

Bunch of white hickfucks, meh, mail them dildos and let them wave guns in front of cops for days.

Replace them with any minority group, and it would have been a massacre within 2 hours.

So, fuck them, I wish them nothing but the best getting cornholed on a daily basis for many years.

This, a million times this.

All the "blue lives matter" people i run into, I keep asking them where were they when guns were being pointed at cops and rangers and i'm usually met by silence.

[neanderthal]

And by the way, since when has protesting the national anthem become some sort of stand against our military? What does the military have to do with the national anthem that a plumber, bus driver, teacher, cop, dog walker etc doesn't? Isn't it a national anthem versus an armed forces anthem?

[Freude am Fahren]

Correct, it's just an excuse for bigots to claim patriotism.

Trumps entire campaign is based on America sucks now, let's fix it. Yet people want to point out real problems, and their entitled, politically correct traitors? Fuck you.

[21Kid]

Not sure how to feel about this...

North Korea requests international aid after typhoon kills 133 and displaces thousands

One one hand... Eff North Korea!!!
On the other... it's not really the residents faults.

[Yw-slayer]

But such a great self-reliant country shouldn't have problems with typhoons!

That said, I do feel for the people.

[21Kid]

It is a mystery why the great leader didn't just stop the typhoon.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not sure how any of these are political..., but seems shit is hitting the fans in Korea in general..., for south korea, it's a financial storm... Hanjin, one of the biggest shipping companies, going bankrupt... and Samsung's hit with battery explosion issues...

How can such a big shipping company all of a sudden implode? And how can Samsung's phone still explode? It's not like lithium ion is some sort of new technology nor it's something they have no experience with... Odd.

Hanjin's problem will sure to disrupt global economy... hope we can all weather thru this 'storm' safely...

[Sad, little man]

It is not Hanjin that will disrupt the economy, it is the economy that disrupted Hanjin.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2016/09/hanjin_s_bankruptcy_has_its_cargo_ships_unable_to_ dock_is_global_shipping.html

[drew]

But such a great self-reliant country shouldn't have problems with typhoons!

That said, I do feel for the people.

With his dick.

[overpowered]

Judge to woman in rape case: 'Why couldn't you just keep your knees together?'

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/12/world/robin-camp-rape-comments-trnd/index.html

When I saw the headline, I assumed somewhere in the deep south. Nope. Canada. Fucking Canada? Really?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, Kim Jong-un should just keep his knees together during typhoon season and tough it out like a real man! Don't be like them sissy southern red neck Koreans!

[21Kid]

From exile, Snowden requests a presidential pardon (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/09/13/exile-snowden-requests-presidential-pardon/90279602/)


Yes, there are laws on the books that say one thing, but that is perhaps why the pardon power exists – for the exceptions, for the things that may seem unlawful in letters on a page but when we look at them morally, when we look at them ethically, when we look at the results, it seems these were necessary things, these were vital things.

[21Kid]

BREAKING NEWS - Special report: In Chester County, Pa., college-educated white voters lean away from Trump - Read Story

:?

I fail to see how that is either a special report or breaking news. :smh:
They just have to put Drumpf in the headlines, don't they.

[drew]

Yep. "Breaking News" is a bit of a joke, across the board. The words have no meaning anymore.

Maybe they should change it to "HOLY FUCKING SHIT, THIS JUST HAPPENED!"


But yes, if it's the Orange Scrotus, it has to be "Breaking News", like when he was going to make one of his (many) "statements" about something, and they showed a podium for 30 fucking minutes.

Eat a dick.

[21Kid]

Sam is back :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VimfLF9V0MY

[dodint]

We'd better start looking at Tim Kaine.

Anyway, I hate to be morbid, but I wonder what the historical context of this is...if any presidential candidate has passed away before the election, would the VP candidate automatically be the new nominee?

If they die before election day, the delegates can get together and pick whomever they want. If they die after the electoral college vote but before inauguration, the VP becomes POTUS.

The interesting scenario is if the candidate dies after the popular election but before the electoral college is finalized. In that case the members of the electoral college can pick a replacement.

[Phil_SS]

Can you imagine the shitstorm that would come from that? These idiots can't get together to make sure people on the Terrorist watch list can't have guns.

I honestly believe if that were to happen that there would be a special election some months later.

[Sad, little man]

The electoral college is different from Congress.

[Yeti]

Vote Hillary, and notorious hacker on steroids 4chan and his racist smug frog may-may will finally be brought to justice. (https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/donald-trump-pepe-the-frog-and-white-supremacists-an-explainer/)

I rate this three exploding Fox News vans out of five.


https://youtu.be/128IR21ZQa0?t=51s


This election cycle is too stupid for words. I'm voting for Kang.

[Phil_SS]

The electoral college is different from Congress.

They all run in the same circles. And the votes are counted by Congress. If half or more of Congress doesn't show up then what happens?

There is no way the GOP would allow it to happen.

[Freude am Fahren]

I didn't know Pepe was now associated with white supremacy :(

[Tom Servo]

The "alt-right" consist of a lot of 4chan types who like throwing out racist memes, probably more to get the lulz than an actual agenda. The white supremacists out there appear to have latched onto that whole thing.

[Yeti]

The 'alt-right' and 'regressive left' are the two sides of the same coin.

Names given to the disporportionally loudest and most obnoxious, but not terribly large, groups of people on either side of the political spectrum. tumblrite and chan idiots who scream on the internet but otherwise don't do shit. Look to the people constantly posting Huffington Post or Breitbart articles on facebook to find them.

The fact that anyone takes either side seriously these days is facepalm inducing to say the least.

Now Trump's people are going to have to issue a warning about the evils of Tumblr or something to even the score.

[Freude am Fahren]

Everything I see on the alt-right is just a huge amount of cognitive dissonance. One of their champions is a gay foreigner.

[Crazed_Insanity]

People are just so irrationally politicized... If you love guns and wish to repeal obamacare, you can be a gay Mexican Muslim who's illegal and crazy conservatives will be able to find a way to love and accept you.

Liberals are not immuned to such craziness too. Claiming to be champions of all people, but wouldn't hesitate to declare some who disagree with their policies as baskets of deplorables..., anyway, at least she apologized for such comment.

[Tom Servo]

The scary part to me is that the alt-right seems to have brought out a lot of overt racism, at least if the various recordings from Trump rallies are anything to be believed. I definitely feel like I see more overtly racist and anti-semitic people on Twitter than I did a year ago. I mean, now I've got mainstream reporters who retweet a tweet directed at them of a picture of an oven with a trail of dollar bills leading to it. I didn't used to see that.

I'm sure there are plenty of Trump supporters who feel the same way, that the regressive left (whatever that is, I'd ever heard the term before, but I can guess what it is) has lead to a stifling level of political correctness. One seems far worse than the other to me, though.

[Freude am Fahren]

I've heard regressive left a bit too, is that more than left that takes stupid too far, like the political correctness and such (like, ever read anything on Jezebel?), or is it the liberals who are really neo-cons with some compassion for minorities and such (like Clinton)

[TheBenior]

FWIU, the regressive left are generally the kind of nutjobs you see on Jezebel/Gawker (well... used to). The same kind of people who protest and file complaints whenever some college professor says something that they don't find sufficiently progressive/liberal/leftist/whatever.

[overpowered]

I understand the concept of extremist left wing nutjobs but I'm not sure why the word "regressive" is being used. How are they "regressive"?

There's a wiki page on it and it sounds like it's just something that the right wing nutjobs came up with because they think it sounds good.

[Yeti]

They've become one of the many sets of rcently emergent buzzwords that give me my cue to stop listening to whatever that person is saying.

[Freude am Fahren]

Well, it is a pejorative, rather than an embraced name, like alt-right. But I think it fits. The left is trying to be progressive and those people just make it harder for normal liberals to be taken seriously.

[Tom Servo]

I know it's from two years ago, but this is my first time seeing it. No words.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/516382177798680576

[tigeraid]

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/trump-obama-birther-vgtrn


Additionally, though Trump admitted for the first time that Obama was born in the US—always a ridiculous claim—he traded his old birther lie for a new and equally unfounded narrative: that it was Hillary Clinton who originally brought Obama's citizenship into question during the 2008 primaries, and Trump helped bring the question to a close. (Conspiracy theories about Obama's birth were circulating back then, but Clinton did not help spread them.)

"Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy," he told the crowd. "I finished it; I finished it. You know what I mean. President Barack Obama was born in the United States, period. Now we all want to get back to making America strong and great again."


I .... just cannot fathom how any human being can believe a thing that comes out of this man's mouth.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Face the reality that they both cannot be trusted.

3rd party candidates may be clueless such as not knowing Aleppo, but they should have more integrity than Clinton and Trump combined...

[Tom Servo]

Face the reality that no matter how much you want that to be true, you're happy constructing your own narrative as usual and then hoping that nobody bothers to research it.

Per Politifact:

True, Mostly True, or Half True:

Hillary Clinton - 72%
Donald Trump - 30%


Mostly False, False, or Pants on Fire

Hillary Clinton - 28%
Donald Trump - 70%

[Crazed_Insanity]

Integrity isn't about simply telling truths. There are plenty of folks who can say the right words but how many will do the right thing?

Of course even that is subjective, even Jesus can act in ways that can turn people to want to kill him...

I'm sure Hillary isn't a bad person, I'm just taking my stand to not vote for a darling of the establishment. Status quo won't be good for America. Of course, I'm also unconvinced that Trump will be able to make America great again.

Jill Stein is now the spiritual Bernie Sanders. I'm just going to vote for what I believe will be good for America...

[Tom Servo]

"Face the reality that they both cannot be trusted."

"Integrity isn't about simply telling truths."

FFS. I really need to learn to not click "View Post".

[Crazed_Insanity]

Are you serious or playing dumb?

As long as we have politicians speak the truth and be political correct, and that's enough?

It doesn't matter what they do?

When they make policy decisions, you are confident that you'll be able to trust her after she has taken so much money from God knows where?

[Alan P]

Would you prefer to be shot or stabbed? That's my take on the choices!

[drew]

Ooo, analogies!

Would you rather stick your dick in a garbage disposal, or have a chain saw shoved up your ass?
or
Would you rather have acid thrown in your face, or molten steel poured on your nuts?


I could do this all night...

[neanderthal]

Face the reality that they both cannot be trusted.



Integrity isn't about simply telling truths.

I do not like Hilary Clinton. But let's be clear, I do not dislike her, I just neither like or dislike her. I would have preferred Bernie. He was more liberal and progressive and his platform reasonated with my beliefs and opinions very closely.

However, that said, the minute you start to pool Hilary and Trump in the same category, is the minute i know you don't have the capacity to think for yourself. PERIOD! There is no comparison between Trump and Clinton, she is the far safer, saner, more humane and reasoned choice; no. fucking. contest.

The fact that you're pooling them in the same category means you have fallen for the right wing propaganda machine, which has been smearing and maligning her for decades. Which, quite frankly, puts you in the same category as the birthers deniers of truth when it confronts their dogmas.

You need to reassess your sources of information and revise your information processing.

And, by the way, if YOU DO have some information about Hillary Clinton that should make one distrust or disbelieve her, I would love to know it. Seriously. But, if you quote some Faux News or Breitbartesque site then i'm just not going to bother.

They really should teach how to parse information sometime in the school year.

[G'day Mate]

Ooo, analogies!

Would you rather stick your dick in a garbage disposal, or have a chain saw shoved up your ass?
or
Would you rather have acid thrown in your face, or molten steel poured on your nuts?


I could do this all night...

Would you rather fuck a goat and nobody ever finds out about it, or not fuck a goat but everyone thinks you did?

[Rikadyn]

suming up this election
http://i.imgur.com/D27sy7K.jpg

[JoshInKC]

I'd definitely go with the .22 short (far right). Those things have little enough penetration that unless I got shot in the temple, ear, or eye, survival would be a pretty safe bet.

[Freude am Fahren]

Would you rather fuck a goat and nobody ever finds out about it, or not fuck a goat but everyone thinks you did?

:lol:

[Rikadyn]

I'd definitely go with the .22 short (far right). Those things have little enough penetration that unless I got shot in the temple, ear, or eye, survival would be a pretty safe bet.

except the far right is more likely to use a .45 or .556...

You know what second from the left is?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I do not like Hilary Clinton. But let's be clear, I do not dislike her, I just neither like or dislike her. I would have preferred Bernie. He was more liberal and progressive and his platform reasonated with my beliefs and opinions very closely.

However, that said, the minute you start to pool Hilary and Trump in the same category, is the minute i know you don't have the capacity to think for yourself. PERIOD! There is no comparison between Trump and Clinton, she is the far safer, saner, more humane and reasoned choice; no. fucking. contest.

The fact that you're pooling them in the same category means you have fallen for the right wing propaganda machine, which has been smearing and maligning her for decades. Which, quite frankly, puts you in the same category as the birthers deniers of truth when it confronts their dogmas.

You need to reassess your sources of information and revise your information processing.

And, by the way, if YOU DO have some information about Hillary Clinton that should make one distrust or disbelieve her, I would love to know it. Seriously. But, if you quote some Faux News or Breitbartesque site then i'm just not going to bother.

They really should teach how to parse information sometime in the school year.

Dude, think about it.

Do you really believe the berni or bust folks are so angry that they now have turned to the red side? Now all of a sudden, Fox News is the news of choice? And they're ready to vote for trump?

Let me make it less personal here..., This primary election has demonstrated how untrust worthy the DNC and the media can be. It really has nothing to do with Trump. Thanks to wiki leak, this is no longer a conspiracy. If you choose to ignore this because of trump, I can respect that, but don't expect me to do the same.

I'm not going to choose which poison or bullet to take. Fuck this system!

I was going to fuck the system back with trump, but realized that I shouldn't really befriend the enemy of my enemy...(at least not until he show me his tax returns). Right now my best bet is Stein.

[drew]

Left one is a 410 shell, but I don't think I've seen anything like the one to its right.

It looks like something Frankenstein would shoot from his dick.

[JoshInKC]

except the far right is more likely to use a .45 or .556...

You know what second from the left is?

That one throws me for a loop. Maybe some sort of oddball 16-gauge slug?

[JoshInKC]

Right now my best bet is Stein.

Best bet for what? Wasting your time in the voting booth?

[drew]

Exactly. A vote for anyone except Hillary is a vote for Trump. The two independents stand NO chance. It's her (HRC) or him (DJT).

[Crazed_Insanity]

The establishment had demonstrated that Americans will only get 2 parties, not only that, it will feed us the kinda candidates that they want. Bernie didn't fit the bill, so it simply pull some strings to make sure that he won't make it to the end.

I think trump only made it because they underestimated him along with the fact that they didn't really have any viable candidates to begin with...

Anyway, my 'bet' isn't based on her chance of winning, but on my own belief of what's good for America. If she doesn't win, I really don't think it matters who wins the White House.

Big foul mouth trump won't be able to get anything done. Politically correct truth telling Hillary won't be able to get anything done either because of the republican assholes in congress, but at least wall st will continue to get rich. (Trump will only be interested in making himself rich..., either way, I won't get rich so neither one matters to me nor to most Americans)

[JoshInKC]

You keep using the phrase "politically correct," out of morbid curiosity, what exactly do you mean when you say that?

[Yw-slayer]

I'm not sure I understood his use of it in his last post.

[21Kid]

"Face the reality that they both cannot be trusted."

"Integrity isn't about simply telling truths."

FFS. I really need to learn to not click "View Post".Self inflicted wounds


Ooo, analogies!

Would you rather stick your dick in a garbage disposal, or have a chain saw shoved up your ass?
or
Would you rather have acid thrown in your face, or molten steel poured on your nuts?


I could do this all night...Your psyche scares me.


I do not like Hilary Clinton. But let's be clear, I do not dislike her, I just neither like or dislike her. I would have preferred Bernie. He was more liberal and progressive and his platform reasonated with my beliefs and opinions very closely.

However, that said, the minute you start to pool Hilary and Trump in the same category, is the minute i know you don't have the capacity to think for yourself. PERIOD! There is no comparison between Trump and Clinton, she is the far safer, saner, more humane and reasoned choice; no. fucking. contest.

The fact that you're pooling them in the same category means you have fallen for the right wing propaganda machine, which has been smearing and maligning her for decades. Which, quite frankly, puts you in the same category as the birthers deniers of truth when it confronts their dogmas.

You need to reassess your sources of information and revise your information processing.

And, by the way, if YOU DO have some information about Hillary Clinton that should make one distrust or disbelieve her, I would love to know it. Seriously. But, if you quote some Faux News or Breitbartesque site then i'm just not going to bother.

They really should teach how to parse information sometime in the school year. Agreed on all points. :up:

[21Kid]

You keep using the phrase "politically correct," out of morbid curiosity, what exactly do you mean when you say that?

https://thesquarerootofapplepie.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/can-of-worms.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

You keep using the phrase "politically correct," out of morbid curiosity, what exactly do you mean when you say that?

Hillary is for sure more politically correct and more truthful than trump, right?

Similarly, the DNC and liberal media are also more politically correct and truthful than the RNC and Fox News.

So I don't disagree with Servo's claim the Trump is worse, just that what happened at the primary election further solidify my distrust of Hillary and the DNC. Being more politically correct and truthful doesn't mean much with me if your actions failed to match your words.

I'm just not going to surrender my vote to her simply because 'she's better than trump'! The Republican congress will not cooperate fully with both Hillary and Trump anyway...

[Tom Servo]

Hahah. The DNC have had super delegates and such for decades to avoid the situation the RNC finds themselves in (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate#Origins), where what the party wants just does not jibe at all with how people vote in the primary. Priebus has basically come out and said that future RNC campaigns will also have a safeguard (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/reince-priebus-gop-primary-penalty_us_57dec1f3e4b0071a6e07d7b8) (though it was mentioned more as a threat towards anyone who wants to run for president in the future but refuses to endorse Trump now).

Just because you didn't pay attention doesn't mean they were dishonest. The DNC has never pretended to not have a hand in who they pick. The DNC is a private organization (just like the RNC) and they can choose whoever the hell they want. The primary is basically a marketing survey. It is not an election.

They haven't been dishonest with you. You've been ignorant of history.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Precisely my point that being more honest and politically correct count for nothing in our political scenes... If we have fucked up rules and as long as we 'truthfully' apply that shit then all is well?

Bankers fucking claim that we are being truthful and covered our asses in the fine print, if you are too dumb to read the fine print and agreed to our predatory loan, too bad for you, sucker!

Well, if you insist on making America the same as usual, then fuck you and fuck both parties who try to fuck the American people. Until some sort of reform happens, I'll be voting 3rd party from now on.

Hope you enjoy making America the same crap as usual while others might believe they'll make America great..., but I'll help push to change America one vote at the time. Thanks for you no help.

[Tom Servo]

What does any of this have to do with "political correctness". You keep throwing that out there, but it's like you heard it as a buzzword and you just like to mention it.

But you're right. It couldn't possibly be that, at least according to isidewith.com, I agree with 98% of Clinton's policies and think that she would make a good president. I'm just in it to fuck things up for you.

And honestly, America the same as usual? America ain't so bad. I've got my problems with it. I think the gap between the haves and have-nots is too wide, I don't like that we have for-profit prisons, I would like to see us get into fewer foreign conflicts, but I mean, this is still a pretty great country to live in. I'm not so sure it'd stay that way if Trump becomes president.

[neanderthal]

Dude, think about it.

Do you really believe the berni or bust folks are so angry that they now have turned to the red side? Now all of a sudden, Fox News is the news of choice? And they're ready to vote for trump?


Sigh.
I don't know why I engage with you.
Where do you make the leap in logic about the Bernie or Bust bros and suddenly Faux somehow suddenly becoming the defacto news source and then suddenly they are all going to vote for Trump?

I'm trying. I'm really trying, to get this single sentence. To try and see how Bernie or Bust is connected to Faux News, and the sudden flip from being liberal (Bernie) to being libertarian (trump) (sic) (lets face it, he is NOT a conservative) (and in my view, libertarians are just anarchists with a 50 cent title) by voting for him. Please ignore the hideous construction of this sentence.

Please, please ... , I beg you; Just respond by connecting the dots in your sentence for me. It makes zero sense. Then make a separate post to elucidate the rest of your post.



Let me make it less personal here..., This primary election has demonstrated how untrust worthy the DNC and the media can be. It really has nothing to do with Trump. Thanks to wiki leak, this is no longer a conspiracy. If you choose to ignore this because of trump, I can respect that, but don't expect me to do the same.

I agree with you on how shady and untrustworthy the DNC has been, in collusion with the media. You get NO argument from me. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. I decried all the election "mishaps;" ask Jason, Swervo, Nigel, OP, Josh or anybody else who was subject to my many tirades on facebook.

But. There is an election ahead of us. Ahead of us, NOT behind us. Your little fit of throwing out the baby with the bathwater will in no way fix what. has. already. happened. It's akin to someone rear ending you on the freeway, and them trying to give you their insurance information after you've pulled over to the side of the road (to move forward, because what is done is done, and cannot be undone! That's how some of these things work.) and you going on and on, in bewilderment, about how they smashed into you, how they possibly couldn't have not seen you, how you had your brake lights on, you know you had your brakes on because you always brake if the car ahead of you brakes, how you clearly saw the car ahead of you with its brake lights on, how they couldn't have not seen your brake lights because you upgraded them with super bright LEDs, how your car is a vivid eye catching color, how all the traffic was stopped and they should have got the idea, how visibility is clear for miles and miles, how if you hadn't been belted in you would be nursing a major whiplash right now, how you might even have one already and you don't know, how soft tissue injuries cannot always be detected or even manifest themselves immediately, how the long term affects could prevent you from playing ball with your son in the future and you had hoped he would make it to the majors and now he might be consigned to the Bakersfield Oilers, how if you had eaten Cheerios instead of Cocoa Puffs this morning you would have soiled yourself, how Bobby Thompson prevented you from ever having a steady stomach after eating Cheerios in 3rd grade, how if maybe your mom had breast fed you you would have had more confidence to punch Bobby Thomspon back in 3rd grade, how maybe if your parents were doing it doggystyle instead of ...

NONE OF IT MATTERS FOR WHAT- MUST- HAPPEN- NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which is, in this scenario you take their insurance information, assess any passengers in either vehicle for injury, assess damage to your vehicles, take pictures of their license plate, make sure the address on their insurance matches with theirs on their drivers license, find out if they are the owner of the vehicle and take the contact information for the owner if they aren't, take witnesses' contact information, call your boss to tell them you're possibly going to be late, inform your missus that you were in an accident and are OK, call a tow truck if necessary, etc. THAT'S WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN THIS MOMENT in this scenario. Not the bellyaching about what happened.

The Presidential primaries are over. Nothing you do now, in this upcoming election, can CHANGE WHAT HAPPENED. The process to fix the problems in the primaries is NOT BY FUCKING UP THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. And the country as a result. Grow. the. fuck. up.

The ramifications of Debbie Wassermann Schultz' mishandling (i'm being kind!) of the primary process are already being felt. For one, she is NOT the DNC chair anymore. For two, she is being primaried by Tim Canova, a young up and coming true liberal of the Bernie/ Warren mould. For three, there are a number of far more progressive incumbents starting to get involved in races across the country, some as a result of the Zuccotti Park protests 5 years ago, others for other reasons. For four, Wikileaks has identified the brazen (successful) effort to elect their (the DNCs and by extension, the media's) annointed one. For five, the massive outcry and the Bernie or Bust bros reaction to NOT vote for her (Hillary) has demonstrated you cannot hijack the democratic process in this day and age (something the Republicans are still trying to reconcile on their end!) For six the widespread dissemination of information across digital platforms outpaced the machinations of the DNC in every single "dubious" primary election, despite the efforts of their lackeys in the media. Etc etc etc.


I'm not going to choose which poison or bullet to take. Fuck this system!

You've still NOT described exactly how, where, or why, Hillary is ... what's the word, ... toxic? You've presented no information for us to doubt her or poison our take on her. You keep decrying her but present NOTHING for us to say "she IS a sleazy piece of shit. Fuck her." I asked you, in that post you quoted to do so. Do you mind? Please?


I was going to fuck the system back with trump, but realized that I shouldn't really befriend the enemy of my enemy...(at least not until he show me his tax returns). Right now my best bet is Stein.

So, instead of improving the system (by the way, can you name a better system? Just one please? Thank you.) we have, you'd rather destroy the entire concept. There's a saying that "great is the enemy of good" but you're not providing a better alternative than the "good" one we have or presenting a "great" alternative for us to try. In fact you're "best bet," voting for Jill Stein, is sabotaging the NEXT. STEP. FORWARD. because, as Drew has clearly pointed out, any votes for anybody who isn't Hillary are votes for Trump.

The right may whinge and moan about Trump, but you better believe, come election time, they will coalesce around their "candidate." Look at how many of the front runners decried him in the primaries, said they would never ever stand with him or endorse him, and now have. The voters will come around to the will of the party. That's how they're set up, "proud independent thinkers" that they like to present themselves as though. They WILL TOE THE LINE.


Now. Please look at my response. It isn't random sentences strung together with you meant to infer what i meant and fill in the blanks between them. It is logical, cohesive, structured, pointed, cogent even. Points I have raised all support a central thesis. Please respond in a similar manner.

Thank you.

[neanderthal]

I've got to give it to you though, you're the KING of non answers.

[neanderthal]

https://thesquarerootofapplepie.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/can-of-worms.jpg

You weren't lying.

[21Kid]

I've got to give it to you though, you're the KING of non answers.
It's his entire belief system.

[21Kid]

He's already anticipating that he will get destroyed, and is preemptively blaming a rigged system.

Anticipating debate, Trump says he thinks system rigged (https://www.yahoo.com/tv/anticipating-debate-trump-says-thinks-system-rigged-203411046.html)


"He'll be very biased, very biased," Trump said. "I don't think he should be a moderator. I'll participate, but I don't think he should be a moderator. CNN is the Clinton News Network, and Anderson Cooper, I don't think he can be fair."

[Crazed_Insanity]

At least his pants are not on fire this time...

Anyway, Neanderthal, I will try my best to formulate a satisfactory response to you soon.


Sigh.
I don't know why I engage with you.
Where do you make the leap in logic about the Bernie or Bust bros and suddenly Faux somehow suddenly becoming the defacto news source and then suddenly they are all going to vote for Trump?
Because you said this:
The fact that you're pooling them in the same category means you have fallen for the right wing propaganda machine, which has been smearing and maligning her for decades. Which, quite frankly, puts you in the same category as the birthers deniers of truth when it confronts their dogmas.
If I'm in the same category, then doesn't it make sense for me to vote for Trump? Anyway...



I agree with you on how shady and untrustworthy the DNC has been, in collusion with the media. You get NO argument from me. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. I decried all the election "mishaps;" ask Jason, Swervo, Nigel, OP, Josh or anybody else who was subject to my many tirades on facebook.
Likewise, I agree with you Hillary is by far the saner and more sensible and more qualfied choice... compared to Trump. No argument there.


But. There is an election ahead of us. Ahead of us, NOT behind us. Your little fit of throwing out the baby with the bathwater will in no way fix what. has. already. happened. It's akin to someone rear ending you on the freeway, and them trying to give you their insurance information after you've pulled over to the side of the road (to move forward, because what is done is done, and cannot be undone! That's how some of these things work.) and you going on and on, in bewilderment, about how they smashed into you, how they possibly couldn't have not seen you...
NONE OF IT MATTERS FOR WHAT- MUST- HAPPEN- NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which is, in this scenario you take their insurance information, assess any passengers in either vehicle for injury, assess damage to your vehicles, take pictures of their license plate, make sure the address on their insurance matches with theirs on their drivers license, find out if they are the owner of the vehicle and take the contact information for the owner if they aren't, take witnesses' contact information, call your boss to tell them you're possibly going to be late, inform your missus that you were in an accident and are OK, call a tow truck if necessary, etc. THAT'S WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN THIS MOMENT in this scenario. Not the bellyaching about what happened.
If this kind of shit that's happening is as routine as a typical fender bender..., then we're really fucked. To me, our primary election is akin to a black Billi getting shot dead. And you have the nerve to tell me what's done cannot be undone... let's move forward.

Well, voting for Jill Stein is my way of moving forward.


The Presidential primaries are over. Nothing you do now, in this upcoming election, can CHANGE WHAT HAPPENED. The process to fix the problems in the primaries is NOT BY FUCKING UP THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. And the country as a result. Grow. the. fuck. up.
I honestly fail to see why casting my vote for someone I truly want is being described as fucking up the election and I need to grow the fuck up.



You've still NOT described exactly how, where, or why, Hillary is ... what's the word, ... toxic? You've presented no information for us to doubt her or poison our take on her. You keep decrying her but present NOTHING for us to say "she IS a sleazy piece of shit. Fuck her." I asked you, in that post you quoted to do so. Do you mind? Please?
I think for those who've taken a position, it's really pointless to come up with any counter arguments to try to convince them. Trump supporters will support him no matter what. Hillary supporters will also likely do the same. I'm not wikileak, I have no proof of anything solid to convict her of anything. All those accusations from the other side regarding her emails or Benghazi or whatever other accusations... I have no evidences, yet, I also have no more confidences that I can trust the media to report the real truth. Can we also trust the government itself to investigate establishment darlings? Without wikileaks, we'd all believe Hillary won fair and square and Bernie or bust folks are just sore losers.

Anyway, I'm just going to ignore all the smear against Hillary for now... because I just don't have the ability to dig into the real truth about these things...

However, looking at her record, it is pretty clear the Hillary is a 'shapeshifter' just like Trump..., they'd both say things that their target audiences want to hear. Trump is simply catering to frustrated angry people... and Hillary is catering to the more sensible crowd of course. We don't really know exactly what the major candidates stand for. Can Hillary really truly represent the American people after taking all those money from the rich? I really don't think so.


So, instead of improving the system (by the way, can you name a better system? Just one please? Thank you.) we have, you'd rather destroy the entire concept. There's a saying that "great is the enemy of good" but you're not providing a better alternative than the "good" one we have or presenting a "great" alternative for us to try. In fact you're "best bet," voting for Jill Stein, is sabotaging the NEXT. STEP. FORWARD. because, as Drew has clearly pointed out, any votes for anybody who isn't Hillary are votes for Trump.
Again, the system legitimately allows for me to vote for Jill Stien. It is only in your mind that by exercising my right to vote is an exercise to sabotage the system.


The right may whinge and moan about Trump, but you better believe, come election time, they will coalesce around their "candidate." Look at how many of the front runners decried him in the primaries, said they would never ever stand with him or endorse him, and now have. The voters will come around to the will of the party. That's how they're set up, "proud independent thinkers" that they like to present themselves as though. They WILL TOE THE LINE.
Believe it or not, Gary Johnson is polling higher than Jill Stein. I think the conservatives who just couldn't possibly accept Trump are more than the Bernie or Bust folks.



Now. Please look at my response. It isn't random sentences strung together with you meant to infer what i meant and fill in the blanks between them. It is logical, cohesive, structured, pointed, cogent even. Points I have raised all support a central thesis. Please respond in a similar manner.
Maybe I'm just not a very good communicator... I can admit to that... I'm not an eloquent speaker nor am I a great writer..., but I assure you my sentences are not meant to be random.

I think our main difference is that you are scared of Trump and this guy just cannot possibly become the next president! Bernie Sanders would agree with you and that's how he ended up endorsing Hillary too. However, I don't like both candidates, but I'm not afraid of either one becoming my next president. Maybe it has something to do with having faith in God? I believe ultimately He is control..., but for atheists such as Bernie, this is too big of a gamble even for him so he reluctantly agreed to endorse Clinton?

Anyway, faith aside, I really don't think our future president will be very effective for the people. Like I said, Hillary won't be able to get anything done because of a republican congress. Trump also won't be able to get anything done because even the Republicans don't like him. Having Mexicans pay for the wall? Do we even have the money to build this great wall of america? Yeah right. I assure you both candidates will not be able to deliver much of their promises. Just like CA's Governater. Angry voters recalled an unpopular democratic governor and replace him with Arnold. In the end, what happened? Not much and he left the office as an unpopular governor. Trump will not be able to win re-election. With regard to him having access to nuclear weapon... hey, com'on, why would he want to risk nuking his riches around the world? So I can see that neither candidate will be able to fully represent their voters.

As for the elites, of course Hillary will be good for them. Trump probably will get busy thinking of ways to make himself rich... that's why the elites/establishment doesn't like him.

Lastly, I honestly cannot agree with you accusing me of sabotaging the election by voting for somebody on the ballot who I really like. I'm voting this way to punish the DNC for not only rear ending me, but for shooting this black Billi to death for no good reason. I know I'm likely wasting my vote, but at least I'm voting for what/who I truly believe in.



Thank you.

You're welcome. If you still think I make no sense or if you still think I'm sabotaging this election, well, again, I apologize in advance that I just suck at communicating my thoughts I guess. I've tried my best. Let's just agree to disagree. I just no longer wish to vote for the lesser of the 2 evils. Okay, I get that you don't think DNC and Hillary are that "evil" compared to Trump, but to me, she's evil enough, okay? (or I just don't believe she has the integrity to avoid being corrupted by money) if the system is further rigged to completely eliminate 3rd party candidates, I'd just stop voting. This is my way of moving forward and I think you need to learn to respect that. This is not a referendum for an Amexit here and we have only 2 choices. Mathematically, perhaps we only have 2 realistic choices, but I want my vote to truly represent my voice rather than allowing them to manipulate me. Enough is enough. If you keep on compromising your votes, you'll end up with candidates that are far worse in the future.

[neanderthal]

If I'm in the same category, then doesn't it make sense for me to vote for Trump? Anyway...

It absolutely does. But stop trying to couch it in terms that imply you'd rather not vote for Trump & Hillary is the worst piece of untrustworthy shit so you're forced to vote for Stein.


Likewise, I agree with you Hillary is by far the saner and more sensible and more qualfied choice... compared to Trump. No argument there.

Yet you continue to bad mouth her with NO EVIDENCE to back up your thesis that she is untrustworthy.


If this kind of shit that's happening is as routine as a typical fender bender..., then we're really fucked.

Do you NOT know how examples work?


To me, our primary election is akin to a black Billi getting shot dead. And you have the nerve to tell me what's done cannot be undone... let's move forward.

Well, voting for Jill Stein is my way of moving forward.

This is how poor your example is; the country is not dead since the primary election. The problem with excessive hyperbole is that it needs to stay relevant to the subject at hand. Applying your view of the primary as soon as it happened we were nuked and all died. Except that's NOT what happened. I understand that you're bothered by how the election turned out, but taking that single emotion and applying it to everything henceforth is immature and juvenile.
By the way I don't get how making the Billi who gets shot is supposed to change anything.



I honestly fail to see why casting my vote for someone I truly want is being described as fucking up the election and I need to grow the fuck up.

Were you singing the praises of Jill Stein prior to the primary? I recall you being on the Bernie boat and rowing your little heart out. So just how much did you "truly want" her to be President?


I think for those who've taken a position, it's really pointless to come up with any counter arguments to try to convince them. Trump supporters will support him no matter what. Hillary supporters will also likely do the same. I'm not wikileak, I have no proof of anything solid to convict her of anything. All those accusations from the other side regarding her emails or Benghazi or whatever other accusations... I have no evidences, yet, I also have no more confidences that I can trust the media to report the real truth. Can we also trust the government itself to investigate establishment darlings? Without wikileaks, we'd all believe Hillary won fair and square and Bernie or bust folks are just sore losers.

So instead of giving us reasons to distrust Hillary you're giving us unsubstantiated justifications? You've told us here that she is untrustworthy, but you can't even give us one example? Do you get why I brought into play the "decades long smear campaign" against her? The words you use are buzzwords they've thrown liberally in her direction.
They did the same for Obama in his first term. They used weak, inexperienced, no foreign policy, etc. Obama outwitted Putin and got labelled weak, while the same people who called him weak called Putin strong. Vet your sources. Parse the information.


Anyway, I'm just going to ignore all the smear against Hillary for now... because I just don't have the ability to dig into the real truth about these things...

Well, what "real truth?" You keep implying there is a bogeyman in the closet and then not producing the bogeyman. And in this single sentence you've implied you'll give her an honest evaluation because you can't find the shady shit she's done. Do you see that the second part of your statement? How does it apply to the first?


However, looking at her record, it is pretty clear the Hillary is a 'shapeshifter' just like Trump..., they'd both say things that their target audiences want to hear. Trump is simply catering to frustrated angry people... and Hillary is catering to the more sensible crowd of course. We don't really know exactly what the major candidates stand for. Can Hillary really truly represent the American people after taking all those money from the rich? I really don't think so.

Shape shifter is another of the buzz words. So is flip flopper. However, fair point.
Except you can't say she represents the "more sensible crowd" then, in the same paragraph, say she only represents the rich. This is what I meant about you leaving large connecting dots out of your conversation. Where have you made the connection between her getting money from many wealthy donors and set it up with arguments and examples to say therefore she will only be serving the rich? Meanwhile not speaking to all other candidates who take money from the rich? It's a completely flawed hypothesis, floated again by Faux News and their ilk, because ALL POLITICIANS take money from the rich. Bernie was literally the only exception.


Again, the system legitimately allows for me to vote for Jill Stien. It is only in your mind that by exercising my right to vote is an exercise to sabotage the system.

It is only in your mind that voting for her is going to effect any change.


Believe it or not, Gary Johnson is polling higher than Jill Stein. I think the conservatives who just couldn't possibly accept Trump are more than the Bernie or Bust folks.

That may be, right now, but they will vote for Trump in November.


Maybe I'm just not a very good communicator... I can admit to that... I'm not an eloquent speaker nor am I a great writer..., but I assure you my sentences are not meant to be random.

Well, they fucking are.


I think our main difference is that you are scared of Trump and this guy just cannot possibly become the next president! Bernie Sanders would agree with you and that's how he ended up endorsing Hillary too. However, I don't like both candidates, but I'm not afraid of either one becoming my next president. Maybe it has something to do with having faith in God? I believe ultimately He is control..., but for atheists such as Bernie, this is too big of a gamble even for him so he reluctantly agreed to endorse Clinton?

You just said you're not a great communicator, your sentences are not meant to be random, then offered me a pile of steaming word salad.
Here is my problem with blind faith and politics. Praying God's will be done in the election is fair and fine, but don't fucking complain about the outcome afterwards.

I'm not afraid of a Trump presidency. I'm afraid of a Trump presidency with this Republican Congress.


Anyway, faith aside, I really don't think our future president will be very effective for the people. Like I said, Hillary won't be able to get anything done because of a republican congress. Trump also won't be able to get anything done because even the Republicans don't like him. Having Mexicans pay for the wall? Do we even have the money to build this great wall of america? Yeah right. I assure you both candidates will not be able to deliver much of their promises. Just like CA's Governater. Angry voters recalled an unpopular democratic governor and replace him with Arnold. In the end, what happened? Not much and he left the office as an unpopular governor. Trump will not be able to win re-election. With regard to him having access to nuclear weapon... hey, com'on, why would he want to risk nuking his riches around the world? So I can see that neither candidate will be able to fully represent their voters.

So neither President (Clinton or Trump, presumably) will be effective for the people, because of Congress, so you're going to vote for Jill Stein? Do you see, again, what I mean about leaps in logic?


As for the elites, of course Hillary will be good for them. Trump probably will get busy thinking of ways to make himself rich... that's why the elites/establishment doesn't like him.

There's just nothing there for me.


Lastly, I honestly cannot agree with you accusing me of sabotaging the election by voting for somebody on the ballot who I really like. I'm voting this way to punish the DNC for not only rear ending me, but for shooting this black Billi to death for no good reason. I know I'm likely wasting my vote, but at least I'm voting for what/who I truly believe in.

No, you're pretending your "protest" vote is a meaningful vote, when it isn't. It's fine to vote for Jill Stein, but don't fool yourself into thinking it's going to change anything. I've already explained why your "shot black Billi to death" metaphor doesn't work. We are all still here.

[neanderthal]

You're welcome. If you still think I make no sense or if you still think I'm sabotaging this election, well, again, I apologize in advance that I just suck at communicating my thoughts I guess. I've tried my best. Let's just agree to disagree. I just no longer wish to vote for the lesser of the 2 evils. Okay, I get that you don't think DNC and Hillary are that "evil" compared to Trump, but to me, she's evil enough, okay? (or I just don't believe she has the integrity to avoid being corrupted by money) if the system is further rigged to completely eliminate 3rd party candidates, I'd just stop voting. This is my way of moving forward and I think you need to learn to respect that. This is not a referendum for an Amexit here and we have only 2 choices. Mathematically, perhaps we only have 2 realistic choices, but I want my vote to truly represent my voice rather than allowing them to manipulate me. Enough is enough. If you keep on compromising your votes, you'll end up with candidates that are far worse in the future.

Bolded. So, instead you're going to vote for the even lessor of an insignificant non/ semi/ mini evil? :confused: (<:somebody please edit this and put the smiley banging it's head into a wall here!)

I give up. I didn't even read the rest of your post after this. You've put together a word salad of remarkable consistent inconsistency, non statements, poor analogies, conflicting statements, poor support structure, etc etc etc.

I give up. But thank you for trying. My brain is now exhausted.

[21Kid]

tldr: you wasted your time...

[FaultyMario]

speaking of, please tell me why your national election is not one person = one vote. yet. Is it still to hard to parcel the ballots from the town halls to capital city?

Sarcasm aside, what is it with you yanks and hanging onto your oudated policies until they take it from your cold, dead hands?

[Kchrpm]

Because then the cities with the most people would be making all of the decisions for the entire country. The US government uses various methods at many levels to not ignore population but to limit it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, I can understand that perhaps the republican smear campaign wasn't evidence based, but wiki leak has changed that during this primary and pretty much nailed her coffin shut for me. The slim chance of me voting for her is Bernie or Elizabeth as vp, but DNC isn't even willing to give us that... So be it!

I can understand that you think she's lesser of the 2 evils, but to me she's evil enough. Just because somebody's better than trump, it doesn't mean much.

Jill Stein is the only candidate to carry on Bernie's msg forward. Voting for her is not voting for a dead America. It's also better than not voting at all.

I rest my case... And you should rest your brain. This is a free country...

[overpowered]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKMeCOV3oXSb5bq/giphy.gif

[neanderthal]

tldr: you wasted your time...

You're damn skippy I did. I only realised it when I was too far in.

[neanderthal]

Neanderthal, I can understand that perhaps the republican smear campaign wasn't evidence based, but wiki leak has changed that during this primary and pretty much nailed her coffin shut for me. The slim chance of me voting for her is Bernie or Elizabeth as vp, but DNC isn't even willing to give us that... So be it!

I can understand that you think she's lesser of the 2 evils, but to me she's evil enough. Just because somebody's better than trump, it doesn't mean much.

Jill Stein is the only candidate to carry on Bernie's msg forward. Voting for her is not voting for a dead America. It's also better than not voting at all.

I rest my case... And you should rest your brain. This is a free country...

You keep bringing up wikileaks but not posting anything at all to incriminate her. This is like your over use of "political correctness" in regards to her. Bring the proof.

In terms of evil, she is just medium, not good, not bad, though, to be fair, we haven't seen her govern. Let's do a scale shall we.


Great? No fucking politicians belong here. Bernie might have had a chance (with a proper Congress.)
Good? FDR. And Obama would go here if it wasn't for the drone program and the lack of action on the banks and investment firms.
Neutral? Most presidents, politicians, & governors go here. Obama is here but also almost there^ so, ... This is where I would put Hillary so far.
Bad? Dubya. Scott Walker. Rick Scott. Sam Brownback. Rod Blagojevich. et al
Evil? Pol Pot. Hitler. Stalin. DONALD FUCKING TRUMP. Mugabe. et al.

As you can see, there is no lesser of two evils. There is one evil and one neutral- ish.

You never made a case.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, at least I believe we see eye to eye with your great to evil spectrum. However, for Hillary, to me, she has solidify her spot in 'bad' after I saw 'evidence' from wiki leak post primary election. That was really the thing that confirms my suspicion that's why I kept bringing it up. I really don't believe most average politicians would/could pull that off so easily... Imagine the lack of integrity and abuse of power she's capable of as a candidate... It's only going to get worse as a president. Wiki leak also won't be able to expose everything...

[neanderthal]

You keep bringing up this nebulous bad thing from wikileaks but not presenting it. We're not four year olds being told about the boogeyman. Bring the proof.

Stop saying wikileaks and start posting links that substantiate your claims. If you're going to say she is financially, um ... "flexible," don't bring up a link that shows her using her influence to get her daughter a spot in college. They're not related. Show something that demostrates her taking money and then changing her position on an issue, or using her influence to steer a project one way or something.

[drew]

That sounds like the Trump tactic. "I heard" "people have said"....

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, can you provide proof to me that she won't slip from average to bad or perhaps even worse in the future? Or will you be willing to bet some money on Hillary's integrity?

I had high hopes for Obama, I thought he'd be one of the great, or at least a good president. But not sure if he was just a liar or corrupted by the establishment or what, I, too, would only give him an average rating.

Now Hillary is starting at average rating... Do you really believe she'll stay average and won't slip down further? What gave you such faith and hope for her? Can you share with me your evidences that you have? How can you be sure she'll stay average or perhaps even climb up a bit? Why are you so optimistic? Or is every support you have for her is due to Trump?

[Kchrpm]

So they asked you to document the things you've seen and read Hillary has already done, which you have identified as being part of the Wikileaks stories, and instead of doing that, you asked for them to provide proof that will predict the future.

C'mon, Billi, you have to understand how that looks.

You said "I have seen things that make me not trust her!"
They said "Show me things that make you not trust her, which you have already seen."
Your response is "Show me things that prove she will never change!"

Your first step should be clicking this link: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hillary+clinton+wikileaks

[Freude am Fahren]

It's the same format as his entire belief system. Not surprising.

[neanderthal]

Neanderthal, can you provide proof to me that she won't slip from average to bad or perhaps even worse in the future? Or will you be willing to bet some money on Hillary's integrity?

I had high hopes for Obama, I thought he'd be one of the great, or at least a good president. But not sure if he was just a liar or corrupted by the establishment or what, I, too, would only give him an average rating.

Now Hillary is starting at average rating... Do you really believe she'll stay average and won't slip down further? What gave you such faith and hope for her? Can you share with me your evidences that you have? How can you be sure she'll stay average or perhaps even climb up a bit? Why are you so optimistic? Or is every support you have for her is due to Trump?

I don't even know where to go with this. But, ..., i'm not going to answer anything you ask until YOU answer what I asked you.

Obama was hampered by an obstructive Congress. He also expanded the drone program and didn't hold the banksters accountable. Otherwise I think he would have been a great President.
Yet the same people who complain bitterly about him are likely to vote in the same members of Congress who comprise the WORST. CONGRESS. EVER. With nary a second thought.

[overpowered]

Between two ferns with Hillary.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b2fc974d1d/between-two-ferns-with-zach-galifianakis-hillary-clinton

[Crazed_Insanity]

So they asked you to document the things you've seen and read Hillary has already done, which you have identified as being part of the Wikileaks stories, and instead of doing that, you asked for them to provide proof that will predict the future.

C'mon, Billi, you have to understand how that looks.

You said "I have seen things that make me not trust her!"
They said "Show me things that make you not trust her, which you have already seen."
Your response is "Show me things that prove she will never change!"

Your first step should be clicking this link: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hillary+clinton+wikileaks

I thought I've already stated that by what I've seen with the primary election and thanks to wikileak revealing the emails, Hillary, DNC and the media, or the establishment, have proven to be untrustworthy.

I do realize the rest of the 'smear campaign' from the conservatives don't quite have solid evidence to prove anything... so what do you want me to produce? Evidence that can get her indicted? That's something I can just google and find? Com'on.

[Yw-slayer]

I dunno man, the Trumpists seem keen to call her Crooked Hillary any chance they get - why?

[Kchrpm]

so what do you want me to produce?
Listing them like you just did is a good first step. Links to articles that are specifically about the things you consider untrustworthy are the next step.

For example, if someone on the forum asked me why I thought Trump was racist, I would open up Google and reply with this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/9-outrageous-things-donald-trump-has-said-about-latinos_us_55e483a1e4b0c818f618904b
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/22/donald-trump/trumps-pants-fire-claim-blacks-are-absolutely-wors/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/donald-trump-white-nationalist-afp-delegate-california

Conversely, if someone asked me why I'm wary of Hillary Clinton, Google would help me find this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-blum/hillary-clinton-wall-street-speeches_b_9818398.html

It's not that hard.

[Crazed_Insanity]

YW, I'm not a Trumpist! Well, to be frank, as an anti-establishmentist, I am actually slightly preferring him over Hillary because I know he will fuck with the establishment! However, I still cannot in good conscience vote for the guy...,

Anyway, here's an example of non-trumpist calling Hillary crooked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5tRnk3ENU

[Crazed_Insanity]

Listing them like you just did is a good first step. Links to articles that are specifically about the things you consider untrustworthy are the next step.

For example, if someone on the forum asked me why I thought Trump was racist, I would open up Google and reply with this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/9-outrageous-things-donald-trump-has-said-about-latinos_us_55e483a1e4b0c818f618904b
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/22/donald-trump/trumps-pants-fire-claim-blacks-are-absolutely-wors/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/donald-trump-white-nationalist-afp-delegate-california

Conversely, if someone asked me why I'm wary of Hillary Clinton, Google would help me find this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-blum/hillary-clinton-wall-street-speeches_b_9818398.html

It's not that hard.

Kchrpm, what's the point? Will we change anybody's minds? I was just telling you guys how I reached my decisions.

How about this, instead of smear campaign searches, how about we search for positive campaign promises? Let's even forget about whether or not if they can deliver on their promises or whether or not if they can even get elected. Just a side by side comparison of Hillary and Jill and why do we think our candidate is better?

BTW, to counter the argument of wasting votes on 3rd party candidates, here's a reason for voting for them even if you know they won't win. (Federal Election Commission could give them more money in future elections... just as F1 teams getting a single championship point can allow them access for more money next season...)
http://time.com/4504687/gary-johnson-jill-stein-vote-funding/

Of course, higher % can also give them a chance at a fucking debate so that we won't always end up with a 2 horse race!!! (I think this stupid rule needs to be changed..., if a person can legally get on a ballot, you should just give the candidate the opportunity to talk and debate each other)

[Kchrpm]

Kchrpm, what's the point? Will we change anybody's minds?
The point is you were asked a question, and instead of answering it you asked more questions.

If someone asked me for Hillary's positive campaign promises, I would find this:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/22/hillary-clintons-top-10-campaign-promises/

A few of my favorites:
1. "For families making less than $125,000 a year, we will eliminate tuition" for in-state students at public colleges.
4. "We will do everything we can to overturn Citizens United."
9. "As president, Hillary will expand background checks to more gun sales."

What about Donald Trump's?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/15/donald-trumps-top-10-campaign-promises/

A few of my favorites:
3. ‘Bring manufacturing (jobs) back’
4. Impose tariffs on goods made in China and Mexico
9. Cut taxes

See? It's not that hard. If someone asks for information, provide it. Don't just filibuster and ramble and ask questions back. This can be done with any topic, on either side. A discussion using specific, referenced/linked examples, not just rhetoric and vague allusions.

[Fogelhund]

I dunno man, the Trumpists seem keen to call her Crooked Hillary any chance they get - why?

I don't really know if most of them do understand the underlying issues with the Clintons. But the knowledge that they represent the establishment both politically and in terms of wealth is enough. They really are everything that is wrong with politics. Their ilk do need to be removed from politics, but, not for what Trump represents. They are there, for their own benefits, and really I don't believe that they care about the public.

I feel like Obama was a reasonably good president as an outsider. There are things I wonder if he could have done better, or better execution of.. yet it's so hard to make real change. I don't feel that he was as corrupt, or beholden to special interest groups etc... though the reality has been, you don't get to power without backing.

We've got to get to a place, where our representatives, represent us... not Big Oil, or NRA, or any number of other interests. For once, do the right thing for the people... and this shit is really going to bite us all in the ass, as there is already degrees of revolution against the establishment, in a bunch of forms. Trump is an example, BLM is another example, and really ISIL is as well. We need our leadership to smarten the fuck up. Apologies if language offends anyone... actually, if the language offends someone, more than the crap that is going on in this world... fuck you too. LOL

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFICRFKtAc4

[Freude am Fahren]

I don't really know if most of them do understand the underlying issues with the Clintons. But the knowledge that they represent the establishment both politically and in terms of wealth is enough. They really are everything that is wrong with politics. Their ilk do need to be removed from politics, but, not for what Trump represents. They are there, for their own benefits, and really I don't believe that they care about the public.

I disagree. I completely believe the Clintons care very much for the country and the people of the country. I also believe they know the system better than anyone, and the only way to get things done is to make the corporations, establishments and allies happy, then maybe you can get a little bit of the good things done. They game the system for all of our benefit, not just their own. She could have retired and just let money from speeches and books come in rather than running for office after office if all she cared about was herself.

Hate the game, not the player.

[Kchrpm]

The Cincinnati Enquirer has endorsed the Republican candidate for president for 100 years. That streak stops with this election. I think they did a good job of summarizing things as they've happened to this point.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/editorials/2016/09/23/enquirer-endorses-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/90728344/

Concluding statements

Trump’s rise through a crowded Republican primary field as well as Sanders' impressive challenge on the Democratic side make clear that the American people yearn for a change in our current state of politics. However, our country needs to seek thoughtful change, not just change for the sake of change. Four years is plenty of time to do enough damage that it could take America years to recover from, if at all.

In these uncertain times, America needs a brave leader, not bravado. Real solutions, not paper-thin promises. A clear eye toward the future, not a cynical appeal to the good old days.

Hillary Clinton has her faults, certainly, but she has spent a lifetime working to improve the lives of Americans both inside and outside of Washington. It's time to elect the first female U.S. president – not because she's a woman, but because she's hands-down the most qualified choice.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I disagree. I completely believe the Clintons care very much for the country and the people of the country. I also believe they know the system better than anyone, and the only way to get things done is to make the corporations, establishments and allies happy, then maybe you can get a little bit of the good things done. They game the system for all of our benefit, not just their own. She could have retired and just let money from speeches and books come in rather than running for office after office if all she cared about was herself.

Hate the game, not the player.

Wow, faith is strong with you!

What is the basis of your 'belief'?

Anyway, has it occurred to you that some people just might be attracted to power rather than retiring?

I really don't believe she's in it for 'us'... or at least not those deplorable ones in Trump's basket.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The point is you were asked a question, and instead of answering it you asked more questions.

If someone asked me for Hillary's positive campaign promises, I would find this:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/22/hillary-clintons-top-10-campaign-promises/

A few of my favorites:
1. "For families making less than $125,000 a year, we will eliminate tuition" for in-state students at public colleges.
4. "We will do everything we can to overturn Citizens United."
9. "As president, Hillary will expand background checks to more gun sales."

What about Donald Trump's?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/15/donald-trumps-top-10-campaign-promises/

A few of my favorites:
3. ‘Bring manufacturing (jobs) back’
4. Impose tariffs on goods made in China and Mexico
9. Cut taxes

See? It's not that hard. If someone asks for information, provide it. Don't just filibuster and ramble and ask questions back. This can be done with any topic, on either side. A discussion using specific, referenced/linked examples, not just rhetoric and vague allusions.

Yes, not hard. However, Jesus himself also often answered a question with more questions... so I'm just trying to more like Jesus! :p

Anyway, here, let's let Jill speak for herself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHeWK8bF9ao

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kZsOISarzg

[Yw-slayer]

This "ending birther" stuff is firmly in the realm of the surreal.


Yes, not hard. However, Jesus himself also often answered a question with more questions... so I'm just trying to more like Jesus! :p

No wonder people don't want to discuss anything with you. :rolleyes:

[drew]

Oh for fuck's sake.

[neanderthal]

Wow, faith is strong with you!

What is the basis of your 'belief'?

Anyway, has it occurred to you that some people just might be attracted to power rather than retiring?

I really don't believe she's in it for 'us'... or at least not those deplorable ones in Trump's basket.


We're all still waiting on the basis of your beliefs. Other than vague references to "wikileaks" that are otherwise completely unsubstantiated, unlisted, undocumented, and remain hidden, undisclosed, and are mostly in your head. Until you reveal them to us of course.

But thanks for playing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

For the love of God, here's a link for you: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/damaging-emails-dnc-wikileaks-dump/story?id=40852448

RNC is not trustworthy is a given. That incident of wikileak revealing what the DNC was up to confirmed my suspicion that I can't trust DNC as well.

Again, you guys can trust her and the DNC if you want, but my belief is based on that incident. It also made the other smear campaigns all the more believable...

[JoshInKC]

So the fact that the DNC was less-than-enthusiastic about a guy who joined the party like a year ago is what makes you hate Hillary?
Okay. That seems nuts to me, but at least its a reason I guess.

[neanderthal]

For the love of God, here's a link for you: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/damaging-emails-dnc-wikileaks-dump/story?id=40852448

RNC is not trustworthy is a given. That incident of wikileak revealing what the DNC was up to confirmed my suspicion that I can't trust DNC as well.

Again, you guys can trust her and the DNC if you want, but my belief is based on that incident. It also made the other smear campaigns all the more believable...

Finally, a morsel of reason in our discourse.

Except, it's still a figment of your imagination; so now can you point to anything in those emails that DIRECTLY CONNECTS HILLARY CLINTON to the actions undertaken by the DNC? Is there a tweet from her, an email from her, collusion/ direct communication from her camp to disenfranchise Bernie? Give us something, something credible, something relevant please.

You've labelled Hillary as the untrustworthy one but lambasted someone else in the sole "rationale" you've given us.

This statement following is akin to what you're saying; "I hate LeBron because Stephen Curry is a better pure shooter."

[Crazed_Insanity]

So the fact that the DNC was less-than-enthusiastic about a guy who joined the party like a year ago is what makes you hate Hillary?
Okay. That seems nuts to me, but at least its a reason I guess.

Very politically correct choice of words... "Less than enthusiastic".

Well, I also don't really hate Hillary and the DNC, just no longer as "enthusiastic" as I am that's all!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Finally, a morsel of reason in our discourse.

Except, it's still a figment of your imagination; so now can you point to anything in those emails that DIRECTLY CONNECTS HILLARY CLINTON to the actions undertaken by the DNC? Is there a tweet from her, an email from her, collusion/ direct communication from her camp to disenfranchise Bernie? Give us something, something credible, something relevant please.

You've labelled Hillary as the untrustworthy one but lambasted someone else in the sole "rationale" you've given us.

This statement following is akin to what you're saying; "I hate LeBron because Stephen Curry is a better pure shooter."

I really don't see how a link gives what I said a bit more 'reason', as some sort of anal Christian demanding that I cite chapter and verse for the 10 commandments or otherwise I'm not being biblical.... Whatever.

Anyway, I'm no longer "enthusiastic" about Hillary and the DNC that's why I will no longer vote for them even if Trump.

Can you guys help me feel more enthusiastic about them somehow without using trump?

Or the best you can do is threaten me with trump and label me stupid, unreasonable, illogical, a fucker that fucks up elections?

If they'd allow Stein in on the debate, I'm pretty sure she'll be able to win it and the presidency... But of course, she needs to be silenced just like Bernie.

[neanderthal]

I really don't see how a link gives what I said a bit more 'reason', as some sort of anal Christian demanding that I cite chapter and verse for the 10 commandments or otherwise I'm not being biblical.... Whatever.

Anyway, I'm no longer "enthusiastic" about Hillary and the DNC that's why I will no longer vote for them even if Trump.

Can you guys help me feel more enthusiastic about them somehow without using trump?

Or the best you can do is threaten me with trump and label me stupid, unreasonable, illogical, a fucker that fucks up elections?

If they'd allow Stein in on the debate, I'm pretty sure she'll be able to win it and the presidency... But of course, she needs to be silenced just like Bernie.

I, ... we've ..., been asking you to substantiate your statements about Hillary's un-trustworthiness etc. You've continued to mutter about her without actually telling us exactly what it is; you've just used vague dog whistle terms that are firmly from the playbook of the 3 decades long smear campaign against her.

So finally you've given us a link, tangible evidence of reason for your distaste of Hillary; except it's all about the Democratic Party.

Which then, continues to beg the question; what's your beef with Hillary.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I honestly cannot believe you guys didn't know about what happen during the DNC primary election and how wikileak contributed to the resignation of the chairwoman.

I'm glad my link had been a revelation to you guys... Or are you just mutherfoquen playing dumb?

Also, If she were like Bernie Sanders who rarely switch positions during her political career and refuse to take money from Wall Street, then I'd have no beef with her.

Obama is already too soft on Wall Street, I'm nearly certain that Hillary presidency will likely have set the wheels in motion to bail out the banks again. I guess only til then will you guys finally realize that both RNC and DNC play on the same "establishment" team which will eventually suck the middle class dry and then cause the collapse of US and the entire global economy.

Of course I also do realize that a trump presidency just might speed up our destruction...

So bottom line is that I choose neither... Unless you have any positive links that can change my mind?

[neanderthal]

So, you have a beef with Hillary and you're not going to tell us what it is. Got it.

We did know what happened. We saw it. heck, a lot of us expressed our outrage either here on in other arenas. But none of us thinks that's a reason to now vote for Jill Stein. Only you do. None of us are pinning what happened on Hillary. Only you are.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So, you have a beef with Hillary and you're not going to tell us what it is. Got it.

Quoting myself from previous post:
Also, If she were like Bernie Sanders who rarely switch positions during her political career and refuse to take money from Wall Street, then I'd have no beef with her.


We did know what happened. We saw it. heck, a lot of us expressed our outrage either here on in other arenas. But none of us thinks that's a reason to now vote for Jill Stein. Only you do. None of us are pinning what happened on Hillary. Only you are.
What happened was worse than me losing faith in Hillary. The entire party let me down. That chairwoman was appointed by Obama too. I'm sure that chairwoman acted alone so by getting rid of her, we now can have complete faith in the party. Yeah right.

I'll tell you one thing, Hillary isn't all bad. At least I'm going to listen to her twitter message, which is to vote my conscience.

[21Kid]

How's that going for you Mo? :lol: #iwarnedyou

Trump wins the debate expectations game (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/09/26/daily-202-trump-wins-the-debate-expectations-game/57e862bce9b69b3019a1e036/)
I... just don't understand. :twitch: He's SOOOOoooo bad, that just showing up (and not whipping out his dick) means he does well?

“I do think that the stakes are much higher in this debate and all the debates for Hillary Clinton,” CNN’s Dana Bash said on the air recently. “Because she is a seasoned politician. She is a seasoned debater. Yes, we saw Donald Trump in the primaries debate for the first time, but he is a first-time politician. So for lots of reasons—maybe it's not fair, but it's the way it is—the onus is on her.”So, the experienced SENATOR and SECRETARY OF STATE, who's had some experience with the White House already (in a number of different ways) and is seasoned in foreign affairs... will have a more difficult time proving she is the right person for the job.

And the reality show host, who thinks women belong in the kitchen and are just objects to be looked at; has said many many bad things about immigrants, and thinks he's a god among mortals (when really most of his ventures fail, and most people laugh at him), just has to show up?
:?
What kind of bizzaro-land is this? In what world is this an acceptable expectation?

[Yw-slayer]

It's all about managing expectations. If you pay 3 Michelin Star prices but get Olive Garden-level quality stuff, then you're probably going to be somewhat peeved. Whereas if you are told that you're going to have to Human Caterpillar Fud for a few days, but you end up only being forced to eat vegan nut bars then you're probably going to be rather relieved.

[21Kid]

I understand that...

I'm just saying from a general standpoint. The inexperienced, racist, sexist, xenophobe... should have more to prove. The fact that almost every media outlet is portraying it the way you stated is already giving him more credit than he's earned.


It's like an experienced executive applying for a CEO position at a big company... against a used car Salesman from the 80s.

This fictional company wouldn't even give him an interview... let alone let them debate on equal footing, while giving him the benefit of the doubt.

If this salesman just showed up to the interview and didn't shit his pants... he'd be considered doing good against the CEO with a proven track-record? :erm:


Not to mention he's been proven to be a liar (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/)and scam artist (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/donald-trump-scandals/474726/). And she's been the most honest (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/) and trustworthy person in this presidential cycle.

[21Kid]

How to Stream Tonight's First Presidential Debate Online, No Cable Required (http://lifehacker.com/how-to-stream-tonights-first-presidential-debate-online-1787080213)


Here are some of the easiest ways to watch online:
Watch on YouTube via streaming partners NBC News, Bloomberg Politics, or the Washington Post (embedded above).

Nearly every media site is covering the event, so you can pick which network you want to watch on. Note, while all of the following networks will have a live stream, some may require a cable subscription:
ABC News
BuzzFeed News
CBS News
CNN Go
C-SPAN
Fox News
Hulu
Huffington Post
NBC News
PBS
Politico
Telemundo
Wall Street Journal
Univision
Yahoo

[Crazed_Insanity]

22% of the time true and she's the most honest and trustworthy politician... I can see trump's 11% making him only half as honest and trustworthy...

Btw, Gary Johnson is only 1% true and Jill Stein isn't even rated... So I guess a least Trump isn't the least trustworthy?

Anyway, when a big corporation is laying off people cutting benefits while it's senior executives are getting big bonuses..., when the time comes for everyone to vote for the next CEO, is it a big surprise that a used car sales man promising the workers bunch of BS ending up with a chance to beat a seasoned executive?

I really fail to see why you are surprised about this... How can such a saint in the political scene possibly lose to Trump? It's not because American people are bunch of deplorables but our nation has a bunch of deplorable elites who've made the lives of our middle class miserable.

If Hillary wins this time, next time we'll probably have Adolf Hitler running for president! If she doesn't do well at the WH and continues to favor the rich, we probably WILL have hitler for president!

[Kchrpm]

The video posted in another thread here about the three tier caste system explains why Trump is so popular. The people with all the money, power and influence do everything they can to convince the two lower classes (that they created through abuse of power) that they are at odds with each other, rather than letting them team up against them.

[21Kid]

How are people so easily influenced by propaganda?


Maybe it's that I'm highly skeptical about a lot of things. But, I just don't see how people buy into the BS.

[Kchrpm]

Because propaganda is designed to cue in to core human psyche stuff. You may say you're not easily influenced by propaganda, but there's some commercial product or similar that you buy/believe in because of propaganda from somewhere. It's likely in a category of product that you're not that interested/invested in, though, so it's not as big a deal as people that are that way about politics.

[Crazed_Insanity]

“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”

—U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864
(letter to Col. William F. Elkins)
https://tedglick.com/future-hope-columns/lincoln-the-third-party-president/

Our nation desperately needs another Lincoln. I thought Obama was the guy, but guess not. I thought perhaps Sanders' the guy, but we'll never find out.

Listen to Hillary, vote your conscience.

[drew]

How are people so easily influenced by propaganda?


Maybe it's that I'm highly skeptical about a lot of things. But, I just don't see how people buy into the BS.


Yep. Think Germany 1936

[21Kid]

This might help Billi...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Lfd1aB9YI

[drew]

It's on the DVR, we'll be watching that shortly.

I think Oliver, Colbert, Stewart, and Wilmore should combine forces (Wilbert Stoli)?. They could be the Four Horsemen of the Compocalypse.

4 very brilliant, terrifyingly smart men. I could only imagine their brainchild would be fucking awesome.

[21Kid]

I've thought Stewart/Colbert for years. They would be great. The greatest!

[Crazed_Insanity]

This might help Billi...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Lfd1aB9YI

Thanks, while I did hope she can get indicted by the email server, but the email server really didn't bother me a whole lot. Likewise the Clinton Foundation.

However, she was really dumb to insist on doing these things. She really should've been more careful to avoid these appearances of impropriety.

Moreover, I'm not begging you guys for some 'hey she's not that bad', but I'd like to know what's really so good about her, okay? That'd really help her win my vote.

Her stupidity aside(actually, I think she is really a very intelligent woman), the moment I began to lose my 'enthusiasm' for her is back when she was a senator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbWzE4JhQJY

Wake up and smell the coffee. She had been corrupted and can no longer be trusted.

It's also amazing to me that Warren now would turn around and endorse Clinton today. Was it solely because of Trump or am I missing something else?

Makes me wonder perhaps the "establishment virus" got a hold of Warren and Sanders as well.

Just take a look at the recent scandal from Wells Fargo. Employees forced to meet some sales quota. One can get fired for failing to meet such quota... so thousands employees were forced into commit fraud. After the news broke, thousands of the employees end up taking the blame and got fired while the senior execs can still keep the millions of bonuses.

This is happening under the OBAMA administration. What can we do about this?

Not much... other than Warren chewing out the Wells Fargo CEO... asking him to resign..., and that's about it. The CEO is like fuck you bitch, do you know how much we give to your freaking party? No wonder you're not the vp pick! Okay, the CEO's commentary is made up by Billi, but the reality that the DNC is more fucked up than Hillary can be found in this link here just in case Billi's words just cannot be believed: https://www.thenation.com/article/welcome-to-the-2016-dnc-sponsored-by-special-interests/

This is the US corporate culture today... even under a president who's a democrat. Yes, perhaps we can once again blame the lousy low approval rating republican congress too, but my point is, status quo is going to eventually fuck us all anyways.

No don't vote for Trump, but please vote your conscience please!

This is not just a vote for Amexit with only 2 choices. There are other options on the ballot.

In the unfortunate event that Trump is elected, at least I can take the comfort of seeing him fucking with the establishment for 4 years.

Trump winning is not a sure thing, Hillary can for sure still win it without people like me... but hopefully an increased 3rd party vote will bring new awareness to her that if she's to win re-election, she's gotta stop getting so cozy with the rich and actually do MORE for middle class americans....

[Freude am Fahren]

Surgeon General warns: Drinking every time Trump lies during debate could result in acute alcohol poisoning (http://usuncut.com/news/surgeon-general-warns-drinking-every-time-trump-lies-debate-result-acute-alcohol-poisoning)

:lol:

[overpowered]

Dan Rather:

https://www.facebook.com/theDanRather/posts/10157478224025716

[Crazed_Insanity]

The bi-partisan effort to suck middle class Americans dry is what led to some Americans to want to bet on Donald trump. Seriously, as the used car salesmanTrump advertised, what do the have nots have to lose?

Sad state for the so called United States... Sigh...

[G'day Mate]

Well, I managed to see bits and pieces of the debate while here I'm at work. It seemed to me that if you are a Hillary supporter you probably think she won, and if you're a Trump supporter you probably think he won.

[Yw-slayer]

The bi-partisan effort to suck middle class Americans dry...

What exactly are you talking about?

[Yeti]

I couldn't actually watch the debate, because of the nature of my job. So, I had audio of it streaming to my phone as I went from building to building.

It was basically two-plus hours of me waiting for either candidate to say something substantial about their policies and that never actually happening. Just dumb shit about emails and tax returns.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What exactly are you talking about?

You forgot 2008 the financial crisis? (Bush era)

Who got screwed? And who bailed out wall street? American taxpayers... and all around the world who invested in America.

In more recent history, the Wells Fargo bank fiasco... employees were forced to commit fraud to enrich the top. Once caught red handed, it's the employees that got blamed and fired. Top execs still managed to keep their jobs and bonuses. No legal consequences. (Obama era)

BTW, the DNC held their convention at the Wells Fargo Center. How fitting.

Do you also require me to provide links in order to believe what I'm saying here? Let me know, I'll google it for you.

[Yw-slayer]

You forgot 2008 the financial crisis? (Bush era)

Who got screwed? And who bailed out wall street? American taxpayers... and all around the world who invested in America.

In more recent history, the Wells Fargo bank fiasco... employees were forced to commit fraud to enrich the top. Once caught red handed, it's the employees that got blamed and fired. Top execs still managed to keep their jobs and bonuses. No legal consequences. (Obama era)

BTW, the DNC held their convention at the Wells Fargo Center. How fitting.

Do you also require me to provide links in order to believe what I'm saying here? Let me know, I'll google it for you.

I don't really care one way or another. I'm just of the view that if you're making arguments, it's usually a good idea to back up your arguments with specific examples/instances, otherwise they just become sweeping generalisations with no factual basis.

Anyway, are you saying that 2008 and this Wells Fargo scandal are all part of some concerted effort by both parties to screw the American Middle Class? I'm sure that even if I don't care too much, the others here might.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just saying Wall Street has no regard for anything... It's just a cancerous tumor feeding on whatever... And the US government(both parties) is corrupted by it.

[Tom Servo]

Well, I managed to see bits and pieces of the debate while here I'm at work. It seemed to me that if you are a Hillary supporter you probably think she won, and if you're a Trump supporter you probably think he won.

I could see that for the first 20 minutes or so. Trump was on message - that the middle class has been left behind by the current political establishment, and that Clinton would mean more of the same. As it went on, though, he just kept getting farther and farther off message, massively avoiding answering questions, and eventually rambling on about whatever while continually trying to interrupt/talk over Clinton.

Specifically, when they asked him about the birther thing. The question was why, if Obama released his birth certificate in 2011, did it take until 2016 for Trump to say he was convinced. What was it that changed in the past five years that finally convinced him. All he would say is that he was the one that got Obama to release the birth certificate when nobody else could. Holt asked him twice that specific question, and twice he repeated that same non-answer.

He also kept denying that he said things that are 100% verifiable, like the thing where he called global warning a hoax perpetrated by China. Notably, this is the first time I've seen his campaign delete a tweet to try to protect him, but I have seen this tweet in the past with my own eyes, and there are plenty of screenshots of it now that it's been deleted.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtVhr5fUEAA107r.jpg:large

Another was the thing about pregnancy being an inconvenience for business. He said it in a television interview, this isn't hard to prove. Hell, he even claimed that his website as well as Hillary's had a real time fact checker, which was then fact checked, as no such thing was on his website. Oh, and I'd read that in the "spin room" afterwards, he was denying that he said the thing about not paying federal income taxes being "smart" - something a hundred million people just heard him say with their own ears only a couple of hours prior.

Also, when questioned about the justice department investigation into discriminatory housing practices, he kept reiterating that he settled that case without admitting guilt. I personally consider that to be "if I pay you enough, can we just pretend this didn't happen". In fact, pretty sure Fox News just did that with the whole Roger Ailes/sexual harassment thing.

By the end, he was going more and more off topic, somehow bringing up Rosie O'Donnell yet again and congratulating himself for not saying the mean things he was thinking about Hillary. Then he finished it off by giving a non-answer as to whether he would question the legitimacy of the election if he lost (by inferring that there are a bunch of people who were made citizens when they didn't go through the proper process in exchange for voting democrat, then saying he'd "support" Clinton - he never said he'd consider the election legitimate).

[Kchrpm]

The tweet wasn't deleted.

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/no-donald-trumps-camp-isnt-deleting-his-stupid-climate-1787116160

[Tom Servo]

Ahh, I stand corrected. Oh well, even easier to verify that he did say what he's claiming he never said.

[drew]

The predictable shit show didn't fail to deliver.

The best part was her (obviously) baiting him, and him chomping at it every time like a shark and chum. Dumbass.

His cumulative talk time was just 60 minutes of word salad and interruptions. Again, 100% predicted.

Best/scariest parts:

"We need stop and frisk" - uhh....
"you said you would 'blow them out of the water' [referring to an Iranian ship "disrepecting" our Navy], that would start a war", DJT: "no it wouldn't". Two things about this one; 1: Yes, it would, you stupid asshole. One nation's WAR ship firing on another nation's WAR ship, is the definition of "startin a WAR"; 2: He didn't deny saying it. Which, given all the "I never said that" and a 5 second search of twitter/wherever proved him wrong, he's basically confirming that he did say that, and it's how he feels.

Newsflash, international diplomacy isn't Twitter slams and burns. There are very serious consequences to even SAYING or IMPLYING you'd do such a thing.

It ceased being "funny" or "entertaining" months ago when he became the official nominee.

I'm looking forward to the next debate, so we can watch him step all over his dick, after she baits him into pulling it out. With shit HE said, Hillary's "smear" campaign is easy this time. All she has to do is slap footage of shit he said together, and put her name on it.

He says/said so much shit, he probably forgot he said it.

[The359]

I have a suspicion he's going to try and get out of the remaining debates, like he did with the Republican debates.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ahh, I stand corrected. Oh well, even easier to verify that he did say what he's claiming he never said.

He's not technically lying, he never said it, just twittered it! :D

Just like there could be different definitions for the word 'is'..., you have to ask questions very carefully to ensure they don't weasel their way out of it! ;)

CNN said she won and Fox said he won, but at least the undecided folks thought she had the advantage...

I personally didn't watch it. Couldn't care less...

[21Kid]

Ahh, I stand corrected. Oh well, even easier to verify that he did say what he's claiming he never said.

Update, 10:27 p.m. EDT: Ironically, Twitter user @itsjuanlove deleted his tweet.:lol:

Apparently, he's now saying that he said it in jest... Not that you could tell with the other crazy stuff he says.

[21Kid]

Her asking people to go to her website for a live fact-check was a bad idea. She needed to do it real-time, not expect others to look on her website. The only people going to her website are already voting for her.

She needed to be more forceful on Stop & Frisk being unconstitutional, stealing the oil being against the law, he said he'd carpet bomb an entire nation (war crime) etc... He CANNOT be allowed to get away with saying these things. And neither H or the moderator hardly said anything.

She needed to have specifics about what he denied. Dates and places/people he said these things he denied. She needs to cut his balls off and feed them to him.

[Tom Servo]

I think part of the problem is that, annoyingly, there is a large portion of the audience that would criticize her if all she did was point out how he was full of shit. It's also a lot easier to do the fact checking online/after the fact, as it's much easier to have links to evidence rather than say it out loud. "Yes, Donald, you did say that, and if all of you at home will go to Youtube, type 'Trump pregnancy inconvenience' in the search bar, then...no, the search bar, that's the location bar. Oh, nevermind."

Joke aside, I don't doubt for a second that if she spent all the time necessary to fact-check Trump during the debate, the news stories today would be all about how she came across as "defensive and bitchy".

[speedpimp]

I always thought there were more than one R in terror.

[21Kid]

Nope.
Teror is a town and a municipality in the northern part of the island of Gran Canaria in the Province of Las Palmas in the Canary Islands. Its population is 12,671, and the area is 25.70 km². Wikipedia

I didn't mean to just fact check him the whole time... you gotta mix it up. :lol:

[Jason]

The predictable shit show didn't fail to deliver.

The best part was her (obviously) baiting him, and him chomping at it every time like a shark and chum. Dumbass.

His cumulative talk time was just 60 minutes of word salad and interruptions. Again, 100% predicted.

Best/scariest parts:

"We need stop and frisk" - uhh....
"you said you would 'blow them out of the water' [referring to an Iranian ship "disrepecting" our Navy], that would start a war", DJT: "no it wouldn't". Two things about this one; 1: Yes, it would, you stupid asshole. One nation's WAR ship firing on another nation's WAR ship, is the definition of "startin a WAR"; 2: He didn't deny saying it. Which, given all the "I never said that" and a 5 second search of twitter/wherever proved him wrong, he's basically confirming that he did say that, and it's how he feels.

Newsflash, international diplomacy isn't Twitter slams and burns. There are very serious consequences to even SAYING or IMPLYING you'd do such a thing.

It ceased being "funny" or "entertaining" months ago when he became the official nominee.

I'm looking forward to the next debate, so we can watch him step all over his dick, after she baits him into pulling it out. With shit HE said, Hillary's "smear" campaign is easy this time. All she has to do is slap footage of shit he said together, and put her name on it.

He says/said so much shit, he probably forgot he said it.


This the thing I've been working on communicating those who might possibly be leaning towards him. Most of us can survive either candidate's social policies for four years, since Congress and SCOTUS move slowly, but international diplomacy and getting this country involved in major wars is something that is a REAL concern. Clinton for all her warts is a damned pro in this regard, she's always steady, she never backs down, and she knows her shit. Trump is effectively bi-polar, and wholly ignorant. Who do we want negotiating peace and war?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, I didn't bother watching the debate, just wondering if they even talked about Wells Fargo incident? I really didn't see much of it in the news.

[novicius]

This the thing I've been working on communicating those who might possibly be leaning towards him. Most of us can survive either candidate's social policies for four years, since Congress and SCOTUS move slowly, but international diplomacy and getting this country involved in major wars is something that is a REAL concern. Clinton for all her warts is a damned pro in this regard, she's always steady, she never backs down, and she knows her shit. Trump is effectively bi-polar, and wholly ignorant. Who do we want negotiating peace and war?
Hey, I'm voting for $hillary but make no mistake: she's taking us to war. #warhawk #buckleup

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, unless Trump decided to nuke us all, he can't possibly do any worse with regard to the war on terror. Killing Hussein, killing Bin Laden, killing so and so... guess what, another terrorist would pop up to fill the void.

I want Jill Stein to be our commander-in-chief. She'll not only pull out militarily, she'll also pullout weapons and funding in those regions so that terrorist organizations will be starved to death.

US government is the main culprit for creating these terrorists, directly or indirectly. We installed Hussein the dictator. We trained Bin Laden to fight the Russians. Without us meddling in the middle east, at least perhaps they'll only be killing each other.

It's also time to allow God to do His mighty work to protect Israel. USA doesn't have to play God like this...

We also desperately need to wean ourselves off of fossil fuel. Stein wants to put Americans to work toward green renewable energy as well.

Fund Elon Musk more money, I'm pretty sure we CAN wean ourselves off of fossil fuel within our lifetime... at least for ground transportation and space travel... perhaps hyperloop can replace commercial aviation? Not so sure about that...

[Sad, little man]

I'm curious, what is god going to do to protect Israel? It's really mighty work right? So what is it?

[Crazed_Insanity]

God has supposedly split the Red Sea to ensure the Israelites won't become extinct. As for modern day miracle, I'd like to see it happen too. Point is, it's God's responsibility to fulfill his promise to the Israelites, not the United States. US has already done a lot... and made a mess. Time for us to stop playing God.

[Yw-slayer]

Yeah, unless Trump decided to nuke us all, he can't possibly do any worse with regard to the war on terror. Killing Hussein, killing Bin Laden, killing so and so... guess what, another terrorist would pop up to fill the void.

Can't possibly do any worse? Worse than who and/or what? What exactly do you mean?

[The359]

Yeah, I'm pretty certain we're far from rock bottom at the moment.

[Tom Servo]

You're still 15 times more likely to be killed by lightning than terrorists on US soil. You're more likely to be killed by a cow or a dog. As the Washington Post reports, you're more likely to be killed by falling furniture than a terrorist. I'd say we're way fucking far from rock bottom.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ever since US began meddling in the Middle East, has it ever gotten better?

Yes, trump could perhaps make things worse faster, but we sure as hell are not making anything better at the moment.

To me, slow death, quick death are the same difference... We will be at war for the long haul. The establishment probably likes it that way... A little fear to keep us in check...

Hey, you need us to save you from Trump and the terrorist!

[Yw-slayer]

Yes, trump could perhaps make things worse faster, but we sure as hell are not making anything better at the moment.

So, contrary to what you originally said, Trump CAN make things worse as they will become worse earlier than under a Clinton presidency. Put another way, if you are saying that things would hit rock-bottom in 2018 thanks to him, but only hit the same stage in 2020 thanks to a Clinton presidency, that's definitely him "making things worse" than a Clinton presidency by 2018.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If you're making a decision to fight to your death in 2018 and fight to your death in 2020 and to avoid the fight and live, how would you vote?

Most here are conditioned to believe that if we don't pick die in 2020, then we will die in 2018!!!

[Yw-slayer]

The point is that you were wrong in saying that Trump couldn't make things any worse.

[Sad, little man]

God has supposedly split the Red Sea to ensure the Israelites won't become extinct. As for modern day miracle, I'd like to see it happen too. Point is, it's God's responsibility to fulfill his promise to the Israelites, not the United States. US has already done a lot... and made a mess. Time for us to stop playing God.

Ok, well if god doesn't split a sea again soon, I'm going to consider him to be a total failure... Or just really slacking.

[drew]

I think I just threw up a bit.


Back on subject: Trump (to use his own favorite word), would be a fucking disaster. He has ZERO diplomacy skills, and only looks for ways to better himself. If that means the country gets fucked, so what.

I can foresee the US being Max Max in 2018 (maybe 2019, have to build that wall first (fuck off)).

Again, he's demonstrated his extreme lack of restraint and absence of temperament repeatedly. For Twitter, that's fine, you just come off as a thin-skinned asshole. As a world leader (and one leading a major super power), that's fucking terrifying.

The only solace I would have with a Trumpocalypse, is that a huge asteroid hits us first, denying him the notch on his bedpost of "great things I did".

Even then, he'd still say it was set in motion by Obama.

Fuck Trump.

[21Kid]

"He always says, 'Make America great again.' Well, America has never been great for people of color and that's something that needs to be addressed. Let's make America great for the first time." :clap:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/sport/kaepernick-interview/index.html

[Sad, little man]

The only solace I have in trump getting this close to the presidency is how massive and public of a failure it will be if he loses at this point.

If he loses, I seriously think it's possible that there won't be a concession speech. I just can't see him being able to admit to defeat that publicly. If anything, it will just be a speech where he rants about how badly the election was rigged.

[Crazed_Insanity]

And I can't imagine what kind of candidate we'll have next...



“Both are proven liars and it almost seems like they’re trying to debate who’s less racist.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/josh-peter/2016/09/28/colin-kaepernick-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/91211066/


YW, my apologies, I was really wrong, yes, quick death is much worse than slow death. Hillary is indeed the better wrong choice for America. No question there.

[neanderthal]

:clap:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/sport/kaepernick-interview/index.html

Hear hear.

Suddenly reporters are paying attention to what he is saying versus before when it was only to what he was doing.

But don't get started on that.

[The359]

The only solace I have in trump getting this close to the presidency is how massive and public of a failure it will be if he loses at this point.

If he loses, I seriously think it's possible that there won't be a concession speech. I just can't see him being able to admit to defeat that publicly. If anything, it will just be a speech where he rants about how badly the election was rigged.

He turned the entire failure of the birther movement thing into a personal victory, and his followers believe him. He's going to ride this loss all the way to the bank. The networks are going to be begging to turn him back into a celebrity.

[Crazed_Insanity]

In other news, I'm surprised the senate so overwhelmingly overridden Obama's veto to allow us to sue foreign nations who support terrorists!

This could also open doors for Arabs accidentally killed by our drones to sue us too!

Nice. Now the Arabs have more civil options to demand justice from the US instead of just becoming suicide bombers... Will also make future presidents think twice about ordering killings abroad!

http://www.npr.org/2016/09/28/495709481/sept-11-lawsuits-vote-today-could-be-first-reversal-of-an-obama-veto

[MR2 Fan]

He turned the entire failure of the birther movement thing into a personal victory, and his followers believe him. He's going to ride this loss all the way to the bank. The networks are going to be begging to turn him back into a celebrity.

His supporters show the ultimate version of cognitive dissonance.

[Jason]

Hey, I'm voting for $hillary but make no mistake: she's taking us to war. #warhawk #buckleup

She's no more a warhawk than Obama, imo. Which is more than I'd like, but still not at the level Trump would lead us to. (Imagining war with China, Russia, Iran, NK, etc. when it comes to him)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, back to our original discussion of how evil and corrupt Hillary and DNC can be:

Obama admin blocking/denying our freedom of information:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-administration-sets-new-record-withholding-foia-requests/

Why? Is it really because of Trump and the Republicans?

Neanderthal, maybe this is an issue more pressing to you?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dnc-black-lives-matter-memo_us_57c6f80de4b078581f1072ca
Memo instructing members of congress to only sympathize but to not do anything concrete for the BLM movement.
Of course Pelosi denied this, claiming that Russian hackers made up such memo. What is really the truth? Hard to say...

But do you see black lives mattering more under the Obama admin? Of course, we can also conveniently blame the Republican congress and the bigots down south too..., but let's just focus on the liberal blue areas and how are the black folks doing over there?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0501-renn-reverse-great-migration-20160501-story.html

Guess what? The ultimate barometer is where are the black people moving to. Nope, not the liberal coastal cities. Heck, not even the northern cities..., but to freaking redneck country!?!?!?!? Wow. What's up with that?

Reminds me of this hidden camera report of waitress heckling gay family down south at Texas and at NY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhl9MLno424
In that report, yes, there are actually some asshole rednecks cheering the waitress on, but there were a lot of other Texan patrons who'd actually stand up to that waitress and offer support to the gay family... where as in the liberal city, champions of gay marriage, none of the patron intervened. They were all like Jerry Seinfeld, yeah, not that there's anything wrong with gay marriage, but it's really none of my business that you got screwed by your life choice!

What is worse is the likes of Wells Fargo bank. Proud supporters of Hillary and gay marriage, but they have no problems fucking customers in their behind in secret.

Anyway, I'm not trying to generate any animosity here...

I can understand why some support Trump. They're hurting and frustrated and angry... and it's unfortunate that they've channeled their anger in an inappropriate way by picking the wrong guy..., but what other guys are available? I was trapped in this category for a while until I realized that I have another option.

I can also understand why most of you support Hillary, because you're just scared shitless of Trump.

However, there's really no need to hate each other. Our real enemy is the so called 'establishment'.

Wells Fargo represents this 'establishment'... socially support gay marriage, politically correctly supports the DNC, everything looks cool on the outside, also looks down on Trump, but inside, the whole system is rotten...

Vote your conscience guys. Even if you vote for Hillary or Trump, I still love you guys! :)

And my last bit of campaigning for Jill Stein:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXeBrY_DCLU

I don't agree with her 100% but for sure she's the least of all evils. ;)

[Yw-slayer]

If he loses he'll claim the election was stolen from him by Crooked Hillary etc. and try and turn it into a victory. :lol:

[Sad, little man]

I don't agree with her 100% but for sure she's the least of all evils. ;)
She supports people who say that vaccines cause autism, and she's a doctor. She is not the least of all evils.

[Tom Servo]

Reminds me of someone.

http://www.theonion.com/article/precious-little-voter-needs-feel-inspired-candidat-52566

[Crazed_Insanity]

She supports people who say that vaccines cause autism, and she's a doctor. She is not the least of all evils.

Do some research. She is not an anti-vaxxer.

[neanderthal]

Anyway, back to our original discussion of how evil and corrupt Hillary and DNC can be:

Obama admin blocking/denying our freedom of information:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-administration-sets-new-record-withholding-foia-requests/

Why? Is it really because of Trump and the Republicans?

Neanderthal, maybe this is an issue more pressing to you?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dnc-black-lives-matter-memo_us_57c6f80de4b078581f1072ca
Memo instructing members of congress to only sympathize but to not do anything concrete for the BLM movement.
Of course Pelosi denied this, claiming that Russian hackers made up such memo. What is really the truth? Hard to say...

But do you see black lives mattering more under the Obama admin? Of course, we can also conveniently blame the Republican congress and the bigots down south too..., but let's just focus on the liberal blue areas and how are the black folks doing over there?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0501-renn-reverse-great-migration-20160501-story.html

Guess what? The ultimate barometer is where are the black people moving to. Nope, not the liberal coastal cities. Heck, not even the northern cities..., but to freaking redneck country!?!?!?!? Wow. What's up with that?

Reminds me of this hidden camera report of waitress heckling gay family down south at Texas and at NY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhl9MLno424
In that report, yes, there are actually some asshole rednecks cheering the waitress on, but there were a lot of other Texan patrons who'd actually stand up to that waitress and offer support to the gay family... where as in the liberal city, champions of gay marriage, none of the patron intervened. They were all like Jerry Seinfeld, yeah, not that there's anything wrong with gay marriage, but it's really none of my business that you got screwed by your life choice!

What is worse is the likes of Wells Fargo bank. Proud supporters of Hillary and gay marriage, but they have no problems fucking customers in their behind in secret.

Anyway, I'm not trying to generate any animosity here...

I can understand why some support Trump. They're hurting and frustrated and angry... and it's unfortunate that they've channeled their anger in an inappropriate way by picking the wrong guy..., but what other guys are available? I was trapped in this category for a while until I realized that I have another option.

I can also understand why most of you support Hillary, because you're just scared shitless of Trump.

However, there's really no need to hate each other. Our real enemy is the so called 'establishment'.

Wells Fargo represents this 'establishment'... socially support gay marriage, politically correctly supports the DNC, everything looks cool on the outside, also looks down on Trump, but inside, the whole system is rotten...

Vote your conscience guys. Even if you vote for Hillary or Trump, I still love you guys! :)

And my last bit of campaigning for Jill Stein:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXeBrY_DCLU

I don't agree with her 100% but for sure she's the least of all evils. ;)

Congratulations on figuring out how links that substantiate your claims bolster your argument, but what have you posted that pertains to Hillary? What single thing there has a finger pointing directly at Hillary, a smoking gun, a trail of breadcrumbs, an anything?

Let's examine your "proofs." You're saying the administration (that's Obama, not Hillary,) the DNC (that's not Hillary, again) then you've linked an email from Pelosi (again, not Hillary) linked an article about home pricing (not Hillary! Are we sensing a trend?) and a Youtube video about a waitress harassing a gay family (is that Hillary's fault?)

Then word salad. For. fucks. sakes!!!!!!!!!!!

"Hillary is evil and corrupt". That's what you led with. This is your thesis statement.

Everything you say afterwards must bolster that statement. You must demonstrate HOW Hillary is evil, HOW she is corrupt. You MUST reinforce those demonstrations with proof and evidence. You must compile proofs that prove evil in one pile, and those that prove corruption in another. At the end, you must tie together those proofs to say "as we can see; x, y, z all irrefutably demonstrate the corrupt nature of Hillary, while; a, b, c are clear evidence of just how evil and diabolical she is."

[neanderthal]

Reminds me of someone.

http://www.theonion.com/article/precious-little-voter-needs-feel-inspired-candidat-52566

Right? Except he's more of an anti Hillary shill than he is pro Jill.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, I'm tired. You can keep on playing dumb and ignore reality.

Vote for her, I can guarantee you that black lives wouldn't matter. Wall street will fuck us again and again... and war with these terrorists will eventually destroy America... if the future republican candidate won't do it first.

[neanderthal]

In other news, I'm surprised the senate so overwhelmingly overridden Obama's veto to allow us to sue foreign nations who support terrorists!

This could also open doors for Arabs accidentally killed by our drones to sue us too!

Nice. Now the Arabs have more civil options to demand justice from the US instead of just becoming suicide bombers... Will also make future presidents think twice about ordering killings abroad!

http://www.npr.org/2016/09/28/495709481/sept-11-lawsuits-vote-today-could-be-first-reversal-of-an-obama-veto

Clear and well thought out. And surprisingly disturbing (Congress, here. Not that lack of your usual trainwreck of thoughts.)

[neanderthal]

Neanderthal, I'm tired.

Vote for her, I can guarantee you that black lives wouldn't matter. Wall street will fuck us again and again... and war with these terrorists will eventually destroy America... if the future republican candidate won't do it first.

But, what will Trump do about BLM, Wells Fargo, war with terrorists? How about Jill Stein? Why is this a particularly Hillary problem for you?

[overpowered]

Donald Trump conducted illegal business in Fidel Castro's Communist Cuba: report

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/donald-trump-conducted-illegal-business-communist-cuba-report-article-1.2810972

[Crazed_Insanity]

But, what will Trump do about BLM, Wells Fargo, war with terrorists? How about Jill Stein? Why is this a particularly Hillary problem for you?

This is not particularly a Hillary problem but a systemic problem.

Bernie should have ran 3rd party and I believe he could've even captured the conservative anti-establishment votes, but of course now we'll never know.

Jill will address those issues but I'm also pretty sure that the established congress will fight her every step of the way... And realistically, she most likely still won't win even with your vote...

So I can fully understand you buckling under the weight of this fucked up system by voting Hillary because to you the alternative is just unthinkable...

Just don't play dumb with me with regard to how 'average' Hillary is in order to ease your conscience...

Let me recap everything in accordance to your liking ONE LAST TIME:

First lady knew what's the right thing to do, but as a NY Senator, that sense was lost:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12mJ-U76nfg
And that's in the words of Elizabeth Warren back in 2004. Not really sure what changed so that Warren ended up endorsing Hillary, could be solely because of Trump or could be because she thought she could be a VP? We don't know, but reality is that Hillary is corrupted back in 2004... and I don't think things can get better from that point on. If you have proofs otherwise, please show me.

Now, crooked Hillary is really the least of our problem. The entire DNC is fucked!
From our awesome primary process that took place in the Wells Fargo Center:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/damaging-emails-dnc-wikileaks-dump/story?id=40852448

To the wonder treatment to black lives:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dnc-black-lives-matter-memo_us_57c6f80de4b078581f1072ca
Okay, so there's a possibility the Russian hacker made it up, but reality is that black people would rather go move back to their redneck abusers than to live with liberals. Liberals only pay lip service for blacks but obviously have nothing concrete to offer them that's why black people are leaving!
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0501-renn-reverse-great-migration-20160501-story.html

Lastly, Obama admin blocking/denying our freedom of information:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-administration-sets-new-record-withholding-foia-requests/
He's doing much better than the cronies of the Bush Admin in terms of lack of transparency. What is he trying to hide from Trump, huh? Personal emails and tax returns are understandable, but denying disclosure of public info? What top secret stuffs are they doing? How can any of the 'investigations' find any wrongdoings if there's just no information?

No doubt the RNC and Trump are far worse, but if this is the new 'average' we have to accept and shoved down our throats, thanks but no thanks, I think I'd rather vomit.

Vote your conscience... as Hillary tweeted.

BTW, if you live in a particularly deep blue state where Hillary will for sure get all the electoral votes anyway, you might as well vote with your conscience and go 3rd party to give Hillary and DNC some warnings shots that status quo cannot go on... and it'll also help give the Green party some legitimacy next time around! Or else, 4 years later, you'll be forced to choose between eating poison or eating shit again. Yes, it is far worse to eat poison. Hillary for sure is the better wrong choice, no argument with you guys there. I'm sorry for thinking that eating shit is just as bad as eating poison. My bad. However, I'm just not going to eat it no mater what you guys say. And thank God I live in CA where I can afford to 'waste' my vote away to Jill Stein with a clear conscience.

[21Kid]

The Donald Trump Foundation is technically a charity. Effectively, it’s a money laundering scheme.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCsVCtE9VM0

[Sad, little man]

It really is amazing not only how severely trump has tripped over his own dick this week, but how much difficulty he's having to untangle himself from it and get back up.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think you are giving him too much credit. I don't think his dick is that long.

[MR2 Fan]

I think you are giving him too much credit. I don't think his dick is that long.

Ask his daughters

[Tom Servo]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/grading-the-presidential-candidates-on-science/

It's a decent read, but to save you the click, they looked at the candidates responses around 20 scientific questions to come up with a score for each candidate.


Clinton - 64
Stein - 44
Johnson - 30
Trump - 7

[JoshInKC]

Wow, the amount of zeros that trump earned is actually impressive. You'd think he'd at least have somebody sensible on his staff to write it for him.

[Yw-slayer]

Ask his daughters

You're assuming that they're his daughters!

[Yw-slayer]

1959

My understanding is that if a loss of US$916 million is declared that year, surely that only means that the business LOST US$916 million that year, and it doesn't in any way indicate that it had US$916 million to start with...

Or maybe I'm wrong and a crooked liar just because I'm a furrin' libbie MSM-influenced guy? :lol: :D

[Tom Servo]

I'm pretty sure you're correct. It might indicate that you've managed to get enough credit to cover all that, but it doesn't indicate you actually had that on hand to start.

[Crazed_Insanity]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/grading-the-presidential-candidates-on-science/

It's a decent read, but to save you the click, they looked at the candidates responses around 20 scientific questions to come up with a score for each candidate.


Clinton - 64
Stein - 44
Johnson - 30
Trump - 7


Stein loses a lot of ground for her anti-nuclear stance alone. Is that really a fair thing to do?

Another knock on her is feasibility of her proposals... This isn't a political comparison... Why should feasibility cause you to lose points?

Anyway, at least they included stein...

[JoshInKC]

Stein loses a lot of ground for her anti-nuclear stance alone. Is that really a fair thing to do?

Another knock on her is feasibility of her proposals... This isn't a political comparison... Why should feasibility cause you to lose points?

Anyway, at least they included stein...
Yes, it is a fair thing to dock someone points for their views on nuclear power in this context. See - "If adopted, her plan would almost certainly make preventing catastrophic climate change more difficult." It wasn't necessarily an unbiased question, but it was the question she was presented with.
And, the whole point of this article is a "political comparison." That's why it is comparing the answers of presidential candidates - making it inherently political. Feasibility is a fairly important aspect of this type of thing - if it wasn't, then all the candidates would be saying "If I'm elected, all Americans will get giant mansions and never have to pay taxes. Pollution ends tomorrow, but at the same time corporations can do whatever they want. The rest of the world will love us and no-one will ever die again."

[speedpimp]

Wow, the amount of zeros that trump earned is actually impressive. You'd think he'd at least have somebody sensible on his staff to write it for him.

Impressive? Simply impressive? It was THE GREATEST COLLECTION OF ZEROES EVER AMASSED BY A SINGLE PERSON AT A SINGLE TIME IN ALL OF HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[neanderthal]

Impressive? Simply impressive? It was THE GREATEST COLLECTION OF ZEROES EVER AMASSED BY A SINGLE PERSON AT A SINGLE TIME IN ALL OF HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The BEST collection of zeros!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, it is a fair thing to dock someone points for their views on nuclear power in this context. See - "If adopted, her plan would almost certainly make preventing catastrophic climate change more difficult." It wasn't necessarily an unbiased question, but it was the question she was presented with.
And, the whole point of this article is a "political comparison." That's why it is comparing the answers of presidential candidates - making it inherently political. Feasibility is a fairly important aspect of this type of thing - if it wasn't, then all the candidates would be saying "If I'm elected, all Americans will get giant mansions and never have to pay taxes. Pollution ends tomorrow, but at the same time corporations can do whatever they want. The rest of the world will love us and no-one will ever die again."

Yeah sure, don't elect big dreamers and don't dare challenge the status quo congress.

Also, nuclear accounts for 8% of 2014 total energy usage, renewable accounts for 10%, yet, she gets dinged for wanting more renewable sources? Anti-nuclear is the same as anti-science is something that eludes me.

[neanderthal]

Sooooooooooooo, anybody noticed the cognitive dissonance about Trump's taxes? All the same people who bemoan all the "welfare queens" not paying tax ain't saying shit!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump "legally" not paying taxes does mean that he's smart... Or you must be stupid to pay extra taxes when you are not legally obligated to do so.

This scandal only highlights how the politicians bend over backward for the rich when passing laws and how lousy a businessman Trump really was and most likely is!

[JoshInKC]

Yeah sure, don't elect big dreamers and don't dare challenge the status quo congress. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm certainly not suggesting that actually having some sort of implementable plan for one's policies might be a wise thing if one is going to run for public office and not look like a fool.

Also, nuclear accounts for 8% of 2014 total energy usage, renewable accounts for 10%, yet, she gets dinged for wanting more renewable sources? She's not getting dinged for wanting more renewable energy, she's getting dinged for wanting to phase out all nuclear power on a timeline which would make it impossible to bring enough of those renewable sources online to pick up the slack, which would subsequently result in either massive energy shortages or increased consumption of fossil fuels. Seriously, this is almost exactly what it says in the link.

[JoshInKC]

Trump "legally" not paying taxes does mean that he's smart...
Rich enough to hire skilled accountants and lobbyists ≠ "Smart"

[Crazed_Insanity]

Rich enough to hire skilled accountants and lobbyists ≠ "Smart"
Don't disagree, but if he didn't do it, I would think of him as stupid.

If one really have a heart to give, might as well give to charity of your choice than to the government.

Anyway, point is, People should attack Trump where it really hurts.... That he's a lousy businessman. No way he can turn losing that much money as being 'smart'.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm certainly not suggesting that actually having some sort of implementable plan for one's policies might be a wise thing if one is going to run for public office and not look like a fool.

Obamas plans weren't all that implementable too. Do you really believe Hillary will be able to implement anything other than policies that benefit the rich with a republican congress?


She's not getting dinged for wanting more renewable energy, she's getting dinged for wanting to phase out all nuclear power on a timeline which would make it impossible to bring enough of those renewable sources online to pick up the slack, which would subsequently result in either massive energy shortages or increased consumption of fossil fuels. Seriously, this is almost exactly what it says in the link.
We're talking about 8% here... Phasing out this 8% sounds just so horrible!

Anyway, even with these dings, she's still 2nd place out of the 4 candidates... Still not too bad.

[Alan P]

Trump won't fix squat. Companies are under increasing pressure from Wall Street and Shareholders to increase profits so bonuses and dividends keep rising. Offer them reduced corporation tax and they'll take it with open arms. While still outsourcing jobs abroad because it's cheaper. If anything I expect him to make it EASIER for companies to dodge taxes and move earnings offshore. He is, after all, a businessman at heart. Although, apparently, not a very good one. He'll hire cronies and yes men for every important cabinet job and the whole economy will tank, the deficit will rise massively and your whole economy will be in serious trouble.

It's also traditional for any companies or directorships etc to be annulled or placed in a blind trust. I.E. not run by anyone with a vested interest in contracts and the companies. Trumps family seem to think that them running these companies is OK, because it's not the President. This is quite clearly a FUCKING HUGE conflict of interest.

While I don't agree with several things about Hilary, she is, by FAR, like, a HUGE margin, massively better organised and less likely to fly off the handle. The debate should have seen to that as anyone who sat on the fence previously should have had their eyes well and truly opened by his 'performance'. And that's what it felt like, a bad actor. Can you honestly imagine Trump trying to hold negotiations over something even relatively minor with Putin or Xi Jinping without flipping out of lambasting them in some way? God help you all if he gets into office and he has to negotiate something important!

Trump really should have shot himself in the foot in the debate and while he didn't actually get that far he had a couple of near misses. I'm sure he will, at some point, say something truly vulgar or shocking. He can't help himself. What I do worry about is people not voting, because the less people that vote the more likely he's going to mount a challenge.

[JoshInKC]

Obamas plans weren't all that implementable too. Do you really believe Hillary will be able to implement anything other than policies that benefit the rich with a republican congress?
Well, some of Obama's could have been made to work, had he not been the focus of some of the most impressively partisan obstructionism in the US's history. Also, he did get a neutered version of Obamacare passed, so that's something. And, I think the hope for Clinton would be that the balance of power in the house and the senate would shift Democratic, allowing at least some movement.

We're talking about 8% here... Phasing out this 8% sounds just so horrible!
8% is not a small amount, especially when nuclear plants perform an important function in the grid beyond simple generation - Since they are super reliable, they take up a lot of slack when other plants either fail or are underproducing, which can be an issue with a lot of renewable sources.

Anyway, even with these dings, she's still 2nd place out of the 4 candidates... Still not too bad.
Yep, she didn't do too badly, substantially better than Johnson.

[JoshInKC]

Anyway, point is, People should attack Trump where it really hurts.... That he's a lousy businessman. No way he can turn losing that much money as being 'smart'.
You are 100% right. Seriously, that asshole lost nearly a billion dollars on casinos. Where the entire business model is "People come in and give you money for nothing in return."

[21Kid]

accurate


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nQGBZQrtT0

[Tom Servo]

That may be the hardest I've laughed at an SNL thing in a while.

[Tom Servo]

The NY Attorney General has ordered the Trump Foundation to stop fundraising money, as they never were certified to do it in the first place. Of note, not being certified meant that his foundation "avoided rigorous outside audits, which New York law requires of larger charities that ask the public for money."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-foundation-ordered-to-stop-fundraising-by-ny-attorney-generals-office/2016/10/03/1d4d295a-8987-11e6-bff0-d53f592f176e_story.html

[Sad, little man]

The best thing about the prospect of Trump losing is imagining how incredibly hard it's going to be on his ego. The moment Clinton wins, all of that fancy secret service protection is going to suddenly evaporate. And no more police escorted motorcades and rallies with adoring fans. For someone as narcissistic as Trump, can you imagine what a blow that's going to be? To go from being this incredibly important person to being basically just a rich guy... If he loses, and if he can even bring himself to give a concession speech, I predict we're going to see a full nervous breakdown from him. He's gonna come completely unglued. At this point, after how high he's built up his needy ego, he needs to win just to maintain his sanity.

[Yw-slayer]

Trump "legally" not paying taxes does mean that he's smart... Or you must be stupid to pay extra taxes when you are not legally obligated to do so.

I don't know about over there, but it's pretty much common-sense to any generic accountant in HK that you can use losses to offset any tax liabilities for several years down the road. I know someone who made a massive loss in his first year of practice, he didn't have to pay tax after that for 3-4 years. I'm not sure I'd automatically classify that as being "smart". Of course, Trump probably didn't think the 1995 document would leak... and/or just doesn't care anyway. :lol:


You are 100% right. Seriously, that asshole lost nearly a billion dollars on casinos. Where the entire business model is "People come in and give you money for nothing in return."

Pretty much. Anyone smart will always remember that the reason the casino looks so grand is because it's built on the money of gamblers.

[Rikadyn]

The best thing about the prospect of Trump losing is imagining how incredibly hard it's going to be on his ego. The moment Clinton wins, all of that fancy secret service protection is going to suddenly evaporate. And no more police escorted motorcades and rallies with adoring fans. For someone as narcissistic as Trump, can you imagine what a blow that's going to be? To go from being this incredibly important person to being basically just a rich guy... If he loses, and if he can even bring himself to give a concession speech, I predict we're going to see a full nervous breakdown from him. He's gonna come completely unglued. At this point, after how high he's built up his needy ego, he needs to win just to maintain his sanity.

His concession speech will probably be a call to arms over the rigged system than a concession speech

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah I don't think it will affect him much. He's so delusional, he won't even think he actually lost no matter how lopsided. He probably already hires a bunch of people to go around and protect him, so that won't be much different. The only notable change will be the lack of public fans gathering. But he may just roll right into campaigning for 2020.

Or he'll just go home and fuck his daughter to get over it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I really think you guys are looking at the trump movement too lightly.

If he wins, it'll be bad for America.

If he loses, it's still going to be bad for America. Forget about how evil I think Hillary might be, trump's angry supporters will only come back angrier... Supporting a worse version of trump or another crazier candidate 4 yrs later.

Anyway, regardless which side wins, none of the voters will be satisfied by the win, yet the loser side will grow ever more disgruntled... And we'll eventually end up with a Divided States of America soon... All the while all the other egotistical rich guys get richer!

[Sad, little man]

I'd rather have a bunch of disgruntled white guys in this country rather than have a bunch of disgruntled white guys in this country and also have their mascot as our president.

There's nothing we can really do to quell the anger of someone who's suddenly unhappy that his skin color no longer grants him as many automatic privileges in this country as it did 50 years ago. But the faster we can marginalize their hate the better, as opposed to giving it legitimacy by having it be the platform of one of the major party nominees for president. People like that and their decades outdated view of the world and this country's place in it need to be ostracized, not given a strong voice in our political system.


Anyway, you guys might want to grab some popcorn, the next few weeks are going to be very entertaining.

As per the above Washington post story, The trump Foundation has 15 days to open its books to the state of New York so they can examine how all of the money it took in was being used.

[MR2 Fan]

The best thing about the prospect of Trump losing is imagining how incredibly hard it's going to be on his ego. The moment Clinton wins, all of that fancy secret service protection is going to suddenly evaporate. And no more police escorted motorcades and rallies with adoring fans. For someone as narcissistic as Trump, can you imagine what a blow that's going to be? To go from being this incredibly important person to being basically just a rich guy... If he loses, and if he can even bring himself to give a concession speech, I predict we're going to see a full nervous breakdown from him. He's gonna come completely unglued. At this point, after how high he's built up his needy ego, he needs to win just to maintain his sanity.

"rich" guy

[Crazed_Insanity]

Slm, I really don't think all of trump supporters are white nazis...

Middle class hurting is real... Bernie could've eased this pent up frustration, but with Hillary winning, the pressure will only build up to become more explosive later...

IMHO anyways...

[Yw-slayer]

You already have and always will have a "Divided States of America". Stop living in la-la-land. :lol:

[Tom Servo]

I read an interesting article recently (I wish I could find it again easily), talking about the biggest problem Hillary has right now is that she's a realist and she's already experienced the system. She knows change is incremental, and doesn't want to promise things she doesn't think she can get accomplished. Trump and Sanders both are advocating for a revolution, for a massive change, and our country is (purposely) designed to avoid that. This is a big ship, one you deliberately and slowly steer. That doesn't make for very exciting campaigning.

[G'day Mate]

Similarly, as a career politician Hillary also seems to be held to a different standard than Trump when it comes to ... pretty much everything actually. Trump's like the third-born child that gets away with all the things his older siblings could never have.

[21Kid]

I'd rather have a bunch of disgruntled white guys in this country rather than have a bunch of disgruntled white guys in this country and also have their mascot as our president.

There's nothing we can really do to quell the anger of someone who's suddenly unhappy that his skin color no longer grants him as many automatic privileges in this country as it did 50 years ago. But the faster we can marginalize their hate the better, as opposed to giving it legitimacy by having it be the platform of one of the major party nominees for president. People like that and their decades outdated view of the world and this country's place in it need to be ostracized, not given a strong voice in our political system.

Yup. I've actually been daydreaming about how much better things will be, once the older generations start dying off. Or maybe it's just where (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Chicago)I live. But, the younger generations are much more accepting of other races/religions/gender orientations/etc...

I honestly can't believe that so many people support Drumpf's racist, xenophobic, misogynistic views. :smh:
It really makes me sad to see such disdain for fellow humans. :(

[Crazed_Insanity]

You already have and always will have a "Divided States of America". Stop living in la-la-land. :lol:

I live in LA. I don't want to stop yet! :p

Extreme polarization is one thing, but another civil war would be another...

We somehow need to get corporate America under control and bring back some stability to the middle class... Whoever's elected, I just hope something can be done about the widening gap between the rich and poor and the rich's strangle hold on our political process...

Otherwise, China will take over Americas place for sure. ( but China probably has a similar issue...)

[mk]

Any full headed democrat should understand that this is a SCOTUS period.

[21Kid]

Kansas Tax Collections Fall $45M Short of Mark in September (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/kansas-tax-collections-fall-45m-short-mark-september-42541817)


"Collect less taxes and your budget will fall short"-this ad brought to you by common sense


Tax collections have fallen short of expectations in 32 of the 45 months — or 71 percent of the time — since the first income tax reductions championed by Brownback took effect in January 2013.

But in the 45 months before the first Brownback-era tax cuts took effect, the state exceeded its monthly projections 24 times, even as it struggled with the aftermath of the Great Recession.

[21Kid]

This is a travesty... :smh:

Supreme Court rejects bid to reopen Walker campaign probe (https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-rejects-reopen-gov-walker-investigation-134147284--politics.html)


MADISON, Wis. (AP) — The U.S. Supreme Court declined Monday to reopen a long-stalled investigation into Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's 2012 campaign against a recall effort, permanently ending a probe that had dogged the Republican even as he launched a brief presidential bid last year.

Justices left in place a year-old Wisconsin Supreme Court decision that shut down the so-called John Doe probe into whether Walker illegally coordinated with outside conservative groups.

Conservative-leaning justices who control the Wisconsin Supreme Court agreed and ended it last year. They ruled that the groups and the campaign's coordination on ads that don't expressly call for the election or defeat of a candidate amounts to free speech and isn't subject to disclosure requirements.

The controversy attracted renewed attention last month when The Guardian newspaper obtained more than 1,000 pages of leaked documents from the investigation. Those documents showed how Walker's top adviser in the recall campaign was coordinating with the Wisconsin Club for Growth on how to spend the millions Walker was raising to help him and Republican senators win the 2011 and 2012 recall campaigns.

The Republican-controlled Wisconsin Legislature made a host of law changes in the wake of the investigation, including dismantling the nonpartisan elections and ethics board that approved the investigation; disallowing secret John Doe probes into suspected misconduct by politicians; and changing state law to make clear that the coordination at the heart of the case was legal.

[Sad, little man]

Looking at the predictions for the race at this point are downright soothing for me after the last month or so of nail biting.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Ahhhh, yes, that's nice. Everything will be ok. Trump was just a bad dream.

[Jason]

Don't get ahead of yourself, things change quickly. Clinton still has a lot of work to do.

[Sad, little man]

Looking back, things have never changed quickly in Trump's favor. It's always a total implosion by him, and he manages to claw back. It's never changed quickly against Clinton because she doesn't make these massive errors.

I really don't see how he wins it at this point. Trump must divulge all of the ugly details of his foundation by the middle of the month, so we know there is already one more really bad story waiting in the wings for him. And with the amount of time he has left, I don't see how he turns it around to win at this point.

And frankly, I look at it this way... If you took someone who knew nothing about Clinton, Trump, or any part of how the campaign has been going, showed them those trend lines over time, and asked them who was going to win, red or blue, seriously, who would say red?

The media has a vested interest in making it seem like things are close. If they didn't, people would lose interest and not tune in. But come on, really... If you look at the hard numbers at this point, the time left, and overall how the whole campaign has gone, Clinton has this locked up at this point. Trump has never truly had any sort of lead. He's always been, at best, kind of on equal footing, and sometimes way, way behind. It makes sensational news to pretend like it's really a race, but it's not, not at this point. Not only does Clinton have the popular support over Trump, but the Democratic party has always had a big advantage on the electoral map for the last few elections.

[drew]

Don't forget about the inevitable "controversy bomb" that will happen. Case in point, the FBI "coincidentally" made their HRC email shit the day before a primary.

You know goddamn well, they have more bombs, they're just waiting for the opportune time to drop them.

Fuck Trump.

[Tom Servo]

My cat's reaction to the VP debate.

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14517466_1454357401247779_8132422655717912991_n.jp g?oh=497e790ab30cf28dbbe0f2c384febc2b&oe=5871E5AB

[G'day Mate]

Anyone want to place bets on how long it will be before Trump actually utters the phrase "I wasn't running for President"?

[neanderthal]

Looking back, things have never changed quickly in Trump's favor. It's always a total implosion by him, and he manages to claw back. It's never changed quickly against Clinton because she doesn't make these massive errors.

I really don't see how he wins it at this point. Trump must divulge all of the ugly details of his foundation by the middle of the month, so we know there is already one more really bad story waiting in the wings for him. And with the amount of time he has left, I don't see how he turns it around to win at this point.

And frankly, I look at it this way... If you took someone who knew nothing about Clinton, Trump, or any part of how the campaign has been going, showed them those trend lines over time, and asked them who was going to win, red or blue, seriously, who would say red?

The media has a vested interest in making it seem like things are close. If they didn't, people would lose interest and not tune in. But come on, really... If you look at the hard numbers at this point, the time left, and overall how the whole campaign has gone, Clinton has this locked up at this point. Trump has never truly had any sort of lead. He's always been, at best, kind of on equal footing, and sometimes way, way behind. It makes sensational news to pretend like it's really a race, but it's not, not at this point. Not only does Clinton have the popular support over Trump, but the Democratic party has always had a big advantage on the electoral map for the last few elections.

His voters won't care.

Did you not notice their complete lack of outrage about him not paying taxes? They'll harp on and on about welfare queens not paying taxes but ignore Drumpf.

[Yw-slayer]

Looking back, things have never changed quickly in Trump's favor. It's always a total implosion by him, and he manages to claw back. It's never changed quickly against Clinton because she doesn't make these massive errors.

I really don't see how he wins it at this point. Trump must divulge all of the ugly details of his foundation by the middle of the month, so we know there is already one more really bad story waiting in the wings for him. And with the amount of time he has left, I don't see how he turns it around to win at this point.

And frankly, I look at it this way... If you took someone who knew nothing about Clinton, Trump, or any part of how the campaign has been going, showed them those trend lines over time, and asked them who was going to win, red or blue, seriously, who would say red?

The media has a vested interest in making it seem like things are close. If they didn't, people would lose interest and not tune in. But come on, really... If you look at the hard numbers at this point, the time left, and overall how the whole campaign has gone, Clinton has this locked up at this point. Trump has never truly had any sort of lead. He's always been, at best, kind of on equal footing, and sometimes way, way behind. It makes sensational news to pretend like it's really a race, but it's not, not at this point. Not only does Clinton have the popular support over Trump, but the Democratic party has always had a big advantage on the electoral map for the last few elections.

The last time people were talking like that, Brexit happened.

[Sad, little man]

You guys are saying a bunch of anecdotal data, I'm looking at numbers.

First, what was said about a referendum vote in another country and the outcome of that vote has no bearing on a presidential election in this country.

Next, yes, the polls do show that voters care about what has been going on with trump over the last couple weeks. His numbers are plummeting, and he doesn't have the time to recover at this point.

True, maybe "his" voters don't care, the maniacal ones that will vote for him no matter what. But, the polls show that some people do care.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyone want to place bets on how long it will be before Trump actually utters the phrase "I wasn't running for President"?
I'm hoping he says 'just kidding' after he wins. Maybe it all started with him betting with another rich guy...

But whatever, he's already made a huge mockery out of our system...

[MR2 Fan]

You guys are saying a bunch of anecdotal data, I'm looking at numbers.

First, what was said about a referendum vote in another country and the outcome of that vote has no bearing on a presidential election in this country.

Next, yes, the polls do show that voters care about what has been going on with trump over the last couple weeks. His numbers are plummeting, and he doesn't have the time to recover at this point.

True, maybe "his" voters don't care, the maniacal ones that will vote for him no matter what. But, the polls show that some people do care.

THIS. Trump claims he's with the "silent majority" but he really, really isn't. The silent majority is silent, they don't show up to political events, duh.

[Sad, little man]

Not to mention trump's idea of getting out the vote is making sure everyone at his rallies is registered. Good for him, but they were already going to vote anyway. He has no clue how an election actually works. Clinton does. She's working the early voting states, and doing the conventional things you have to do ti
to mobilize people to vote who might not have otherwise.

trump is done, I'm calling it now. Maybe it'll tighten up again before the election, but he's done.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The race is really Hillary's to lose.

1st, she was screwed by an up and coming black Jr. senator and he delayed her plan for 8 years!

Just when it's time for her to finally shine, some old Jewish dude pops up to steal some, otherwise, solid votes from her. Some liberal anti-establishment votes would now shift to Trump and the Bernie and Bust folks would simply not vote or go for 3rd party... these should've been easy votes for her... and these were likely the votes that helped push Obama over the top!

Anyway, this is the moment she's been waiting for all her life..., if she loses to an idiot like Trump, she'll probably kill herself!

Once she gets this dream job, I wonder if she'll really strive to become a 'good' president... I'm secretly hoping that she's just using the money of the rich to climb up the power ladder... once in position of real power, then she reverts back to the 'original' Hillary and do some good for America!

Likewise for Trump, I'm hope he's just pandering to win votes and not really as bad as he advertised... so if he wins, the world won't end.

Anyway, my wishful thinking.

[Freude am Fahren]

The man failed miserably selling gambling, football, and steak.

TO AMERICANS!

Think about how hard that is.
Think about it, man.

[21Kid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Op9Bkpeu4s
also... this is why we need a better voting system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB1bSJB3n10

[Yw-slayer]

Think about it, man.

Fair point.

[Crazed_Insanity]

also... this is why we need a better voting system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB1bSJB3n10

Wow, that Maine governer... the mini-Trump was re-elected?!?!?!? That is kinda unbelievable...

However, when Democrats put un-inspiring candidates on ballots and when an independent stole 8% of the vote, who's really to blame? The independent candidate? The voters? I'd place most of the blame on the Democratic Party itself.

I think when Al Gore lost to idiotic W, similar blame was placed on to Ralph Nader.

But dude, Al Gore couldn't even win his home state! What does that say about himself?

It's like the Democratic Party is so arrogant that it just doesn't learn from past mistakes and keeps on putting boring uninspiring people on ballots. (Obama was a rare exception of course)

Anyway, I seriously hope Trump won't win an re-election! I can possibly stomach him for a single term, but that's about it. If the democrats continue to play the same strategy, yeah, I'll probably eventually succumb to the lesser of the 2 evil shit and vote for the boring candidate...

[MR2 Fan]

Wow, that Maine governer... the mini-Trump was re-elected?!?!?!? That is kinda unbelievable...

However, when Democrats put un-inspiring candidates on ballots and when an independent stole 8% of the vote, who's really to blame? The independent candidate? The voters? I'd place most of the blame on the Democratic Party itself.

I think when Al Gore lost to idiotic W, similar blame was placed on to Ralph Nader.

But dude, Al Gore couldn't even win his home state! What does that say about himself?

It's like the Democratic Party is so arrogant that it just doesn't learn from past mistakes and keeps on putting boring uninspiring people on ballots. (Obama was a rare exception of course)

Anyway, I seriously hope Trump won't win an re-election! I can possibly stomach him for a single term, but that's about it. If the democrats continue to play the same strategy, yeah, I'll probably eventually succumb to the lesser of the 2 evil shit and vote for the boring candidate...

wow, I agree with a Billi post! (I suppose once a year ain't bad :p )


The Democratic party is seemingly quite disorganized...not as bad as the self-destructing GOP, but still bad.

The problem is that the Democrats biggest selling point right now is that they aren't as wacko as the GOP. That is not a unified stance and they don't really have a big platform that can go from the Presidential candidate through congress and to state governors (which they are losing BADLY at).

In their drive to be, IMO, "cautiously progressive" they're leaving out the people to the left, like the Bernie supporters. They seem to be afraid of alienating the centrists...while the GOP somehow isn't.

[neanderthal]

Fascinating that "grab them by the pussy" has elicited all sorts of appropriate chatter from the Republicans, but none have actually withdrawn their support or endorsement.

The moral fiber of the conservatives is gone.

[Sad, little man]

Paul Ryan did cancel an appearance with Trump on Saturday because of it.

I said it before, and I'll say it again, Trump is toast... Beautiful, burnt, small-handed toast.

All hail president Clin-ton.

[Tom Servo]

It does sound like the governor of Utah may have rescinded an endorsement, at least said he would no longer vote for him at any rate.

My favorite tweet so far was in response to Lewandowski basically saying that that's how people talk around the dining room table. I can't find it right now, but it was something like "Lewandowski Thanksgiving: Hey! Ma! Who's fucking pussy do I have to grab to get some more stuffed peppers?!?"

[FaultyMario]

I am just thinking of the Mexican cabinet idiots who thought it was a good idea to give Trump a head-of-state reception.

I can see Luis Videgaray having breakfast and reading on his tablet.

schadenfreude, motherfucker!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting development... Wonder why it's the Washington post that published a recording from NBC...

Maybe they were afraid of hurting the good name of Bush family initially, but finally realized that hey got to do what has to be done? Or was it calculated that this is the best time to crush the Republican Party?

Now my other dream is to see the DNC crushed... ;)