Politics

[drew]

I have an uncle that is saying Trump's "lewd gate" (fuck off) is nowhere nears as bad as Hillary "allowing" her husband to get blown by interns.


Fucking hell.

I think it's time to log off FB for the rest of the year.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14492566_573885342803136_8284510807882065283_n.jpg ?oh=8f92e0c82fa611edf13a66d1d217e9d6&oe=58A71A9D

[Crazed_Insanity]

If Trump steps aside and Pence or some other more 'established' politician takes over... I wonder if Hillary could still remain a favorite of the establishment or Wall Street...

Anyway, if this happens, it'll be great for 3rd parties!

[novicius]

Paul Ryan did cancel an appearance with Trump on Saturday because of it.

I said it before, and I'll say it again, Trump is toast... Beautiful, burnt, small-handed toast.

All hail president Clin-ton.
Agreed. This shit is done, she did it.

I will say that the absolute LEAST suprising news that will come from this election is the RNC implementing some sort of "Superdelegates" system of their own. They will never again allow their voters to force such an unpalatable, unwinnable candidate on them. :lol:

[21Kid]

Not many people actually like Hillary... But, they hate Trump. If they get rid of him and put in a sensible candidate, wouldn't it be ironic if that's how she loses?

[Freude am Fahren]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/337294392530436097

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/337294392530436097

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14495297_1709130709409815_1982350786976712768_n.jp g?oh=fd33a6dbd9d70e9f8d4295684b9889b8&oe=5866DD0C

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/14581324_1262786827147702_5421646833164407041_n.jp g?oh=7146f90665a6a86be7b697933c346c65&oe=58ADD96E

[Tom Servo]

Agreed. This shit is done, she did it.

I will say that the absolute LEAST suprising news that will come from this election is the RNC implementing some sort of "Superdelegates" system of their own. They will never again allow their voters to force such an unpalatable, unwinnable candidate on them. :lol:

Preibus has basically insinuated as much, saying that people who don't get in line behind Trump may find it more difficult than expected if they run in 2020. Sure sounded to me that the RNC was going to exert more control over the primary process.

[novicius]

Well in the absence of Trump, people might vote Ted Cruz in -- which would put the RNC right back here anyway. :lol:

[drew]

As fucked up and scary as a Trump presidency would be, a Cruz reign absolutely horrifies me.

[speedpimp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sYGjoUcusM

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14642033_10154595632849805_4360759289017647801_n.j pg?oh=592a80dc612af1c1841420f917119e00&oe=589C6F0F

[21Kid]

1972

[MR2 Fan]

:lol:

[MR2 Fan]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/35/6b/61/356b618195a20d0e6f734845afa87348.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Really had no desire to tune in to the presidential debate before..., now I'm more interested to find out how Trumpd gonna respond...

Sigh,... So sad to see our election process turned into reality TV!

Btw, didn't realize it's pass the point of no return to change ballot names..., somebody must've held on to this audio purposely until now...

[speedpimp]

Billy, it's called "The October Surprise" for a reason.

[novicius]

Honestly I would absolutely accept all plans by the RNC at this point. :lol:

Want to go with Pence for President? Fine, let's see how that works out for you guys. Regretfully turn back to Rubio? Sure thing. Dust off McCain? Pivot back to Cruz? Nudge Jeb awake?

I'd happily accept any and all of the above to run against Hillary at this point 'cause it's over . #fearthereversejinx #nofear #republicantears #lol

[novicius]

Also I will say (as an Old Person of the GTX) that this entire election reminds me of the Bobby Riggs vs Billie Jean King "Battle of the Sexes" tennis match. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis))


Kramer wrote, however, that "Billie Jean beat him fair and square. A lot of men — especially around our age — were so stunned when he lost that they figured he must have tanked. Budge is convinced of that. But what motive would Riggs have for that? Bobby Riggs, the biggest ham in the world, gets his greatest audience — and purposefully looks bad? There's no way.
Even tho' I've joked about it, there is no way I believe that Trump lost this on purpose (other than by not investing any money into his own campaign). He's a fucking Grade-A American ham.

[FaultyMario]

OMG, he is so out of it.

Completely unfit for public office.

[G'day Mate]

Trump: "I have great respect for women; nobody has better respect for women than I do. I'm doing to defeat ISIS"

[FaultyMario]

I said it before, and I'll say it again, Trump is toast... Beautiful, burnt, small-handed toast.

Truer tonight.

[neanderthal]

Why don't they just shut off their mics when it is the other persons time to talk? And why don't they force him to answer the question. He didn't answer the muslim womans question about how he is going to make muslims in American safer from all the hate filled rhetoric that has been spewed by people like him.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I liked their compliments for each other in the end...

[21Kid]

They always let him respond instead of moving on... Why don't they just say "no, we don't have time for you to respond"

[The359]

I just feel disgusted after watching that whole thing. Compared to the first debate, Clinton came off as a far worse human being, and Trump was same old bullshit. Nobody won, it was all just a joke.

[Tom Servo]

Trump's spent lots of time saying that Hillary is weak and doesn't have the stamina to be president. Then praises her as someone who never gives up and fights to the finish.

Huh.

[FaultyMario]

I think he was caught unprepared for that last question. She wasn't.

Good god, that woman is a monster! May he have mercy on you all.

[novicius]

They always let him respond instead of moving on... Why don't they just say "no, we don't have time for you to respond"
Her strategy is to let him talk -- while irritating, it just added to Trump's negativity.

Was $Hillary awesome? No. Did she need to be? No. #shrug

Trump needs to sway undecided voters. Instead he fed his voting base. Let's see how his numbers fare over the next few days. :lol:

[Freude am Fahren]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--D7yn9yf8--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/gjefizsol1xwfswm72pc.gif

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--glSQXE6q--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/lohnqyrhp6bk16syubl0.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuX1C04UkAA4iYE.jpg
(Yes, that's real) (http://theslot.jezebel.com/melania-trump-wore-an-1-100-gucci-pussy-bow-shirt-to-t-1787604900)

[21Kid]

Sorry, by 'they' I meant the moderators. Every time he wanted to respond, they were like "We have a lot of really important things to cover... but, sure go ahead." Knowing full well he's just going to ramble on about the emails/Bill/Benghazi, etc...

I also don't know why they don't grill him harder when he lies. They have proof of half of the shit he denies. Most of the time coming out of his own mouth.

Honestly, they should do the same for Hillary too.

[novicius]

Before the 2nd debate began, FiveThirtyEight.Com put Hillary's chances to win at 80%.

Currently (the next day) their "Now-cast" (if the election were held today) is 86.7%. Some polls reporting in are showing some +2 to +9 point bounces for Clinton. Obviously it's a limited number yet.

Also we still haven't seen/heard any A/V where Trump uses racial epithets -- and you know he has...

[Freude am Fahren]

Honestly, I don' think that will hurt him as much. He had a lot of women for him that may have changed their minds, and maybe some men. But he's already polling so low with minorities. Most of his supporters don't care as much about racism as they do sexual assault.

I think everyone assumes he's called black people the n-word many times in his life, but not many would have assumed he goes around sexually assaulting women and bragging about it.

[novicius]

I'm not thinking about the "Minority Vote" so much as the remaining Undecideds. Keep trotting out Ugly Trump media, that will keep them from surprising the vote.

[21Kid]

1973
broken.

[Crazed_Insanity]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

Is it just me or there's really just a minor bump for Hillary and minor drop for Trump in polls after this October Surprise?

Considering the things Trump has already said in public, his 'locker room banter' really wasn't all that shocking. It only made his haters hate him more. Most of his supporters probably will just ignore that... and perhaps some actually like a president who knows when to grab somebody by their genitals?

Anyway, in retrospect, I think this surprise came a bit too early to do maximum damage... should've been released a bit later around late October for maximum damage.

Hillary also failed to capitalize this fully...

Odd thing is that 3rd party candidates also didn't gain much...

It's like people just don't give a damn anymore...

[Sad, little man]

Most of his supporters probably will just ignore that... and perhaps some actually like a president who knows when to grab somebody by their genitals?

So I'm curious, when exactly is the proper time to grab a woman's genitals?

[Freude am Fahren]

The saddest thing about the whole thing is what I'm seeing from women. Both strangers in comment sections, and friends on facebook. Nearly all of them have experienced men "grabbing them by pussy" at one time or another, if not many times.

It's a thing that apparently happens. A lot. :(

[Crazed_Insanity]

Is this something new or have I been living in a cave... I honestly have never heard of that term before... and now I'm learning that this is actually a genuine practice?!?!?!?

Grabbing someone by their balls makes more sense, but grabbing somebody's kitty is really something new to me. How do you even do that?

SLM, maybe it's necessary to grab other world leaders by their balls during trade negotiations or something.

Anyway, just based on the poll #s, it seems Americans have made up their minds... or just don't care. AV of this magnitude really doesn't shock and awe us that much anymore thanks to training through various reality TV shows...

The so-called Trump supporters are just basically Hillary(Establishment) haters... so as long as their hatred for Hillary doesn't change, Trump's support just won't fade all that much...

Anyway, polls are never accurate anyway. We'll find out on election day and we'll see which way the election is really rigged. ;)

[MR2 Fan]

The so-called Trump supporters are just basically Hillary(Establishment) haters... so as long as their hatred for Hillary doesn't change, Trump's support just won't fade all that much...

In a way this is like deciding you want to marry a hooker because she does things that your gf won't.

[drew]

The whole "it's just guy talk" shit, it a cop out.

Hey, asshole, you're running for President of the United States. By that virtue alone, you are to be held at a higher regard, and will be scrutinized with everything you do.


Is Hillary a saint? Not by a long shot. Does she have the years of diplomatic experience/etc? Fuck yes.

The fact that Trump goes against his own running mate, should be a sign as well.

As mentioned before, nothing he says/does, will lose any of his core supporters. But his core supporters don't make up anywhere near enough for him to win.

Fuck Trump.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's why I think the lesser of the 2 evil way isn't working... or according to most here she's not really THAT 'evil', just not THAT good...

Point is, I think most picked Hillary because they hate Trump more... and most also picked Trump because they hate Hillary more... so this 'october surprise' on Trump only slightly hurt him and it only marginally increase Hillary's poll #'s... at the moment, it's certainly enough for Hillary to win, but American's are forgetful... in a month, Trump just might close the gap again...

Anyway, I'm just enjoying seeing the RNC imploding.

Wonder what kind of surprises are in store for Hillary, or she got it all under control...

I'd also be happy to see the DNC implode as well... so we can have an official end of the 2 party circus system.

What's most disappointing is that I also didn't see much increase for 3rd party candidates... in fact, there's a small decline! So maybe Americans are stuck in the 2 party mentality and it'll be very difficult to change that...

[MR2 Fan]

That's why I think the lesser of the 2 evil way isn't working... or according to most here she's not really THAT 'evil', just not THAT good...

Point is, I think most picked Hillary because they hate Trump more... and most also picked Trump because they hate Hillary more... so this 'october surprise' on Trump only slightly hurt him and it only marginally increase Hillary's poll #'s... at the moment, it's certainly enough for Hillary to win, but American's are forgetful... in a month, Trump just might close the gap again...

Anyway, I'm just enjoying seeing the RNC imploding.

Wonder what kind of surprises are in store for Hillary, or she got it all under control...

I'd also be happy to see the DNC implode as well... so we can have an official end of the 2 party circus system.

What's most disappointing is that I also didn't see much increase for 3rd party candidates... in fact, there's a small decline! So maybe Americans are stuck in the 2 party mentality and it'll be very difficult to change that...

I'd kinda like to see a no-party system and everyone become independent but I don't see that happening, and it can cause its own problems.

I think I'll start my own country somewhere...

Of course I'll be in Japan during the actual election, so I could beg for refugee status...they let in 4 refugees every year, I have a shot :p

[Freude am Fahren]

GOP senator says "grabbing [women] by the pussy" isn't sexual assault. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jeff-sessions-trump-sexual-assault_us_57fbb902e4b068ecb5e06988)

[George]

What's most disappointing is that I also didn't see much increase for 3rd party candidates...

I think that's because we have weak third-party candidates this time around, and I say that as someone who really wanted to support Johnson.

It would have been interesting to see a really strong third-party candidate this year - someone like Ross Perot when he first started his run in '92 and, for a while, looked like he might actually have had a chance.

I wonder what two billionaires and one deeply entrenched political insider running a three-person race would have been like.

An even worse freak show than we have today, I'd imagine. :lol:

Signed,

Someone who used to be very interested in politics but who has just about given up on even trying to cast a meaningful vote anymore


Fuck Trump.

+1,000,000

[MR2 Fan]

so apparently twitter is ablaze (pun intended) with the news that Glenn Beck is now supporting Hillary...lots of people falling over themselves to say that Glenn Beck has always been secretly a democrat/establishment, etc.

[G'day Mate]

People are accusing Glenn Beck of being a sleeper agent for the Dems? :lol:

[neanderthal]

That's why I think the lesser of the 2 evil way isn't working... or according to most here she's not really THAT 'evil', just not THAT good...

Point is, I think most picked Hillary because they hate Trump more... and most also picked Trump because they hate Hillary more... so this 'october surprise' on Trump only slightly hurt him and it only marginally increase Hillary's poll #'s... at the moment, it's certainly enough for Hillary to win, but American's are forgetful... in a month, Trump just might close the gap again...

Anyway, I'm just enjoying seeing the RNC imploding.

Wonder what kind of surprises are in store for Hillary, or she got it all under control...

I'd also be happy to see the DNC implode as well... so we can have an official end of the 2 party circus system.

What's most disappointing is that I also didn't see much increase for 3rd party candidates... in fact, there's a small decline! So maybe Americans are stuck in the 2 party mentality and it'll be very difficult to change that...

No Billi.

You kept painting her as some evil scumbag conniving monster, then not backing up what you said with any facts. The few "facts" you did list were about the DNC and Obama, rather than Hillary.

None of us here were ever convinced that she is terrible. More "meh" than terrible. Not even a little bit evil.

I'd describe her as maybe devious, which, I think, is one step beyond mischievous. And that's a strong maybe.

[Crazed_Insanity]

you actually saw the YouTube link I posted?

Elizabeth Warren was praising the 1st lady for doing the right thing and only accusing the new senator of doing something 'meh' by reversing her previous position 180 degrees?

We all had high hopes for Obama and see how low he has sunk? Now, he's still very popular, but you yourself agree he really only is average now considering all things... And Hillary is only at best average going into White House... It's certainly be nice if she can do better later on, but I'm not counting on it.

[Yw-slayer]

We all had high hopes for Obama and see how low he has sunk? Now, he's still very popular, but you yourself agree he really only is average now considering all things...

The US system is, to some extent, built so that it is difficult for one man to radically change it.

I think it's more telling that Obama was a Harvard Law Professor with a six-pack while one of his mooted replacements is a lying, corpulent, failed businessman.

[21Kid]

It would have been interesting to see a really strong third-party candidate this year - someone like Ross Perot when he first started his run in '92 and, for a while, looked like he might actually have had a chance.
If Bernie would have stayed an independent, I think we would have seen it.

[Sad, little man]

If Bernie would have stayed an independent, I think we would have seen it.

It would not have been interesting for Bernie to enter the race as an independent and then elect Trump as president.

[21Kid]

I know. :( that's probably why he didn't. Well, not because of Trump specifically. Because he didn't know at that time. But, to ruin it if he didn't get enough support.

[Tom Servo]

Couple of Trump's tweets this morning:


Our very weak and ineffective leader, Paul Ryan, had a bad conference call where his members went wild at his disloyalty. (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/785828772423561216)


It is so nice that the shackles have been taken off me and I can now fight for America the way I want to. (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/785842546878578688)

Umm...is he about to grab us all by the pussy? Seriously though, I thought things were off the rails before. I'm guessing that this is in reaction to Ryan saying that while he still won't withdraw his endorsement, he will no longer try to defend Trump and is solely focused on saving seats in the Senate and House, and not at all focused on the presidential election.


THE AGE OF MAN IS OVER, IT IS THE FIRE'S TURN (https://twitter.com/onlxn/status/785853308070092800)

[21Kid]

P.S. Why is Donald still sniffing so much? He said he wasn't sick. So... what else would cause so much sniffing?
And such bizarre, erratic, sometimes violent behavior?
And disturbed sleep patterns?
And anxiety and paranoia?
And hallucinations, hyperexcitability, irritability?
And psychosis?

[drew]

So, I made an error in judgement and actually went to the twitter feed and read some of the tripe on it.

I seriously feel like stopping a bus with my head, to make the dumbfuckery-induced migraine stop.

[Sad, little man]

You're gonna want to bookmark it and grab some popcorn... Dude is going off the rails and becoming unhinged all at once.

[Kchrpm]

I wonder what he would actually have to say or do for his base to leave him. Even when he says something against them directly, they just assume he was kidding, or lying just to appease other people.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The US system is, to some extent, built so that it is difficult for one man to radically change it.

I think it's more telling that Obama was a Harvard Law Professor with a six-pack while one of his mooted replacements is a lying, corpulent, failed businessman.

What do you think it's telling you?

Republican voters supporting crazy dumbasses is now a norm. This happens with or without Obama.

This election season really should've been a fight between the anti-establishment candidates... Sanders vs Trump.

It's only because DNC has more protectionistic mechanisms in place which prevented Bernie from succeeding. Actually, had Bernie Sanders been younger and more charismatic like Obama, he surely could've beaten Hillary again.

Anyway, you are certainly true with your 1st sentence. That is the primary reason why I'm not afraid of either Hillary or Trump becoming president eventhough I don't want to see them becoming president.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wonder what he would actually have to say or do for his base to leave him. Even when he says something against them directly, they just assume he was kidding, or lying just to appease other people.

Only action can speak louder than words.

Only way to bring him down is to show people more of his failed businesses or actually DOING something horrible.

His people already love all the politically incorrect shit that he's saying... his 'locker room banter' really isn't all that shocking for his supporters I don't think...

Anyway, like I said before, I'm really enjoying seeing him dismantling the RNC. As much as I hate the DNC now, I do also hate the RNC more. Hopefully after this election season, we will have a more level headed congress...

[21Kid]

:lol: He's gonna burn this motha down!!!



Despite winning the second debate in a landslide (every poll), it is hard to do well when Paul Ryan and others give zero support!

With the exception of cheating Bernie out of the nom the Dems have always proven to be far more loyal to each other than the Republicans!
Disloyal R's are far more difficult than Crooked Hillary. They come at you from all sides. They don’t know how to win - I will teach them!
The very foul mouthed Sen. John McCain begged for my support during his primary (I gave, he won), then dropped me over locker room remarks!
It is so nice that the shackles have been taken off me and I can now fight for America the way I want to.

[Sad, little man]

Meanwhile, Breitbart is doing all it can to play up completely non-controversial things in wikileaks emails as big controversies.

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/10/11/wikileaks-hillary-clinton-angry-white-guy-usa-chants/

Gasp, they wanted people to hold little American flags at rallies! How awful, how corrupt!

[Sad, little man]

He's now referring to her on Twitter simply as "Crooked". That's cute.


Crooked's State Dept gave special attention to "Friends of Bill" after the Haiti Earthquake. Unbelievable!

[drew]

Again, fuck Trump.

He can fuck himself. When he's done fucking himself, he can fuck himself again.

Trump Taj Mahal. Brilliant business man.

(Go fuck yourself)

[21Kid]

It's only his name that's on it. He lost it in one of his many bankruptcies, in 2009 I think.

But Trump does want the current owner, Carl Ichan, to run the Treasury dept.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq_ZosSy_9I

[21Kid]

Dang... I can't stand the guy, but at least someone is standing up to the bully.

Glenn Beck: Opposing Trump is 'moral' choice — even if Clinton is elected (http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/glenn-beck-hillary-clinton-moral-ethical-choice/)
"If she is elected, the world does not end," Beck said of Clinton. "Once elected, Hillary can be fought. Her tactics are blatant and juvenile, and battling her by means of political and procedural maneuvering or through the media, through public marches and online articles, all of that will be moral, worthy of man of principal."
He added: "Trump stepping down does not guarantee a Clinton win, but it does guarantee that the Republican party still stands for something, still allows its members to maintain (their) own self-respect and that it still has a future."

[drew]

Oh, you know they'll fight/block everything she does. They've gotten real good at it in the last 8 years. Unless they can somehow get some Democrats in there.

I love all the comments to Glenn Beck, that he's 'dead' to them now, etc.

Seriously. You're just pissed off because the fuckwad that's spent years telling you shit you want to hear, just said something that you didn't.

Fuck off.

[FaultyMario]

I wonder what he would actually have to say or do for his base to leave him. Even when he says something against them directly, they just assume he was kidding, or lying just to appease other people.

Starting spouting out real world statistics and evidence I think would be the moment they all go, "foock this clown, he's just like 'em!"

[drew]

Given the 100s of completely assbackward-buttfuck-hilljack (proper) shit he's said, and nobody's said "wow, that's pretty fucked up", good luck.

If anything, the more stupid shit he says, makes their devotion stronger.

My idea, if they love Trump so much, he can buy an island, build a resort, and they can all go live there to be reigned over by him.

Fuck Trump.

[21Kid]

Everything he's proposed is very dictator-like. It would make sense for him to rule over all of his subjects, and they would love it.

[novicius]

If Trump showed contrition to Paul Ryan & GOP, embraced globalism and the TPP, that would probably send his base running.

[MR2 Fan]

Given the 100s of completely assbackward-buttfuck-hilljack (proper) shit he's said, and nobody's said "wow, that's pretty fucked up", good luck.

If anything, the more stupid shit he says, makes their devotion stronger.

My idea, if they love Trump so much, he can buy an island, build a resort, and they can all go live there to be reigned over by him.

Fuck Trump.

QFMFT

no matter what they say, somehow hillary is supposedly worse, and if she isn't then bill is....how convenient, and I'm sure if it wasn't bill, somehow chelsea would probably be brought up next.

Beware the power of stupid people in large groups who have learned how to internetz

[drew]

Everything he's proposed is very dictator-like. It would make sense for him to rule over all of his subjects, and they would love it.

Seriously, that'd be his reality show.

"King Trump says, [everyone pauses/gasps] You, punch him in the dick", and anyone that flips him off, loses that finger, and one of their children is executed.

It'd be like Simon Says, except scarier with dire consequences, and the only "winner" is Trump.


All the Daily Show and Samantha Bee Trump rally reports, while I know they cherry pick the stupid of the stupid for them, are still a frightening example of his core base.

Add to that, he's planted the notion that if he "loses" (while not in his vocabulary, he doesn't "lose"), the system is rigged. So he's conveniently got his "out" for that situation. He can't lose, ever.

Fuck Trump 2016-forever

[novicius]

:lol:

I sincerely hope that he runs for President for the next 3 elections.

[Yw-slayer]

Hopefully as an independent, so that we can all see who the deplorables are. :D

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hopefully he runs as democrat! So that he can destroy the democratic establishment too!

I think regardless of whether he wins the election, he has got to go down in history as the biggest and badest reality TV star ever!!!

[neanderthal]

you actually saw the YouTube link I posted?

Elizabeth Warren was praising the 1st lady for doing the right thing and only accusing the new senator of doing something 'meh' by reversing her previous position 180 degrees?

We all had high hopes for Obama and see how low he has sunk? Now, he's still very popular, but you yourself agree he really only is average now considering all things... And Hillary is only at best average going into White House... It's certainly be nice if she can do better later on, but I'm not counting on it.

You've completely misread what i've said about Obama.

I've said, other than the drone program, not bringing the bankers to account, he's been probably the, pay attention now, best. President. ever especially when you account for the worst. Congress. ever that he's had to deal with. I've said, IMO, only one has been better.
Sure he didn't close Guantanamo. But Congress didn't allocate the funds. He did his job, they didn't do theirs.
Infrastructure Bill. He sent it to Congress. Still on Boenher/ Ryans desk. Not his job to bring it up for a vote. That's the Speaker of the House' job.
Jobs Bill. Same. etc etc etc.

[21Kid]

You've completely misread what i've said .... You are surprised by this? :?

Agreed about President Obama. The guy is complete class. Even when he's been attacked ruthlessly for 8+ years.
My only criticism, except for those few blemishes you mentioned, is that he's been too lenient with the opposition. They've done anything and everything to block every.single.thing he's tried to accomplish. Even when it was in the best interest of everyone in the US, just to try and make him look bad.
I don't know if there is anything he could have done. But, it's hurt us all. Oh, I was disappointed that it took him so long to get onboard with equal rights for LGBT as well, but at least he did eventually.

Furthermore, the First Lady has been exceptional as well.
They are an amazing couple. Smart, nice, charming, and funny. I'm glad that we've had them in the white house.


Our current options in comparison seem like a step back, when Bernie would have been a big step forward.
1976

[Freude am Fahren]

https://twitter.com/ditzkoff/status/786017457588801536

Yes, please Trump supporters, go vote on November 28th!

[Sad, little man]

In light of donald's collapsing campaign, an impending electoral landslide, and a rapidly decreasing number of people sticking by him, I can't help but picture him sitting alone at night in a completely darkened trump tower, quietly sobbing to himself, listening to this.

https://youtu.be/K_PQ4fRQ5Kc

Do I think this is really the case? No, not really. But would I be shocked to learn that donald secretly has little cry sessions by himself in a dark office? No, given how batshit insane he clearly is, I would not be shocked if this were the case. Everybody's got a breaking point folks!

[21Kid]

http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/files/2016/10/MadImagine.png

[drew]

:lol:

[neanderthal]

:up:

[neanderthal]

You are surprised by this? :?

Agreed about President Obama. The guy is complete class. Even when he's been attacked ruthlessly for 8+ years.
My only criticism, except for those few blemishes you mentioned, is that he's been too lenient with the opposition. They've done anything and everything to block every.single.thing he's tried to accomplish. Even when it was in the best interest of everyone in the US, just to try and make him look bad.
I don't know if there is anything he could have done. But, it's hurt us all. Oh, I was disappointed that it took him so long to get onboard with equal rights for LGBT as well, but at least he did eventually.

Furthermore, the First Lady has been exceptional as well.
They are an amazing couple. Smart, nice, charming, and funny. I'm glad that we've had them in the white house.


Our current options in comparison seem like a step back, when Bernie would have been a big step forward.
1976

I have a hard time thinking that people are completely clueless or being deliberately obtuse. I always credit people with clear rational thinking. Its hurt me in my own life.

But yeah, Obama's pure class.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You've completely misread what i've said about Obama.

I've said, other than the drone program, not bringing the bankers to account, he's been probably the, pay attention now, best. President. ever especially when you account for the worst. Congress. ever that he's had to deal with. I've said, IMO, only one has been better.
Sure he didn't close Guantanamo. But Congress didn't allocate the funds. He did his job, they didn't do theirs.
Infrastructure Bill. He sent it to Congress. Still on Boenher/ Ryans desk. Not his job to bring it up for a vote. That's the Speaker of the House' job.
Jobs Bill. Same. etc etc etc.

Sure, we can blame Congress not funding Guantanamo Bay closure, but what about NSA wiretapping? Again, just not enough funding to shut that down too?

What about being the least transparent president ever? Denying our freedom of information?

What pisses me off about Obama is that he outwardly appears to be totally opposite of W, but behind the scenes, it's like W is still in the white house!

It's the combination of these openly great deeds(which made him popular) and behind the scenes misdeeds which I believe will result him being labeled by historians as 'average' I think. He really could've been great, just as Bill Clinton also probably could've been one of the great too, but Bill just couldn't control his dick...

I'm not really sure what's up with Obama. Those behind the scenes stuff that he pulled... either he's corrupted by the establishment or perhaps somebody more powerful's twisting his arms...

[neanderthal]

Sure, we can blame Congress not funding Guantanamo Bay closure, but what about NSA wiretapping? Again, just not enough funding to shut that down too?

What about being the least transparent president ever? Denying our freedom of information?

What pisses me off about Obama is that he outwardly appears to be totally opposite of W, but behind the scenes, it's like W is still in the white house!

It's the combination of these openly great deeds(which made him popular) and behind the scenes misdeeds which I believe will result him being labeled by historians as 'average' I think. He really could've been great, just as Bill Clinton also probably could've been one of the great too, but Bill just couldn't control his dick...

I'm not really sure what's up with Obama. Those behind the scenes stuff that he pulled... either he's corrupted by the establishment or perhaps somebody more powerful's twisting his arms...

I believe that he's not perfect. That wiretapping was started by Bush under the patriot act. That the "least transparent President ever" is a Faux News et al title conferred upon him. Etc

But you don't have to like him, i like him as one of the best ever. However, I can play that game too.

Name a President who was better. We'll see how I too can pick nits.

[drew]

So, Clinton, who absolutely kicked the ass out of the economy (before Bush fucked it over again), wasn't one of the best ever, because he couldn't control his dick?


I will just bow out. I just don't fucking understand anything anymore.

[FaultyMario]

Clinton was a better president than Obama.

[MR2 Fan]

Clinton was a better president than Obama.

or was just a president in a better time for the country

[neanderthal]

So, Clinton, who absolutely kicked the ass out of the economy (before Bush fucked it over again), wasn't one of the best ever, because he couldn't control his dick?


I will just bow out. I just don't fucking understand anything anymore.

:up:

[neanderthal]

Clinton had his own demerits which I can list, but i'm waiting for him (Billi) to proclaim his one best great president so I can pick nits like a monkey in a flea ridden zoo. I expect a typically Trump like non answer quite frankly.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I believe that he's not perfect. That wiretapping was started by Bush under the patriot act. That the "least transparent President ever" is a Faux News et al title conferred upon him. Etc

But you don't have to like him, i like him as one of the best ever. However, I can play that game too.

Name a President who was better. We'll see how I too can pick nits.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-administration-sets-new-record-withholding-foia-requests/

You never bother looking at my links and yet you insist I give you links?
Do you consider PBS newshour as source of Faux news as well?

I'm not here to nit pick, let's just stick to facts, shall we?

Do you have any info that disputes PBS's claim that Obama sets new record at withholding freedom of information act requests?

How are we suppose to investigate Hillary with no information available, huh? That kind of 'transparency' I'd expect from W, not O. If the government is transparent enough, there'd be no need for wikileak!

I don't hate Obama, I'm just VERY disappointed in him. Lots of W legacies, he just carried on as usual. Makes me wonder why the fuck did I vote for you? (But of course, the alternative will be even worse, I know)

Similarly with Bill Clinton. I really like the guy..., imagine how much more he could've accomplished if he weren't bogged down by all that investigations due to sexual misconduct?

President Obama and Clinton have done some great things, no questions there..., but they've wasted their talents and opportunities to become one of the greats.

Such as Abraham Lincoln.

Go nit pick Abe, biatch!

(Like I said, perhaps Obama was secretly threatened... if he doesn't behave and try to be like one of those greats, maybe he could be assassinated by the establishment just like Abe was...)

[drew]

Clinton had his own demerits which I can list, but i'm waiting for him (Billi) to proclaim his one best great president so I can pick nits like a monkey in a flea ridden zoo. I expect a typically Trump like non answer quite frankly.

Thankfully, I will not know :)

[JSGeneral]

...Such as Abraham Lincoln.

Go nit pick Abe, biatch!
Abraham Lincoln died for our sins.


(Like I said, perhaps Obama was secretly threatened... if he doesn't behave and try to be like one of those greats, maybe he could be assassinated by the establishment just like Abe was...)
Did you just suggest a course of action to have the current president killed? How does that make your position seem anything but batshit crazy?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Am I really that bad of a writer? You think I'm posting a threat to kill Obama?

Anyway, that was not a suggestion..., just one of the possible explanations of why Obama turned out to be such a disappointment to me.

Main reason is that he's just corrupted by the establishment... that's why he doesn't do anything with the bankers, wiretapping, withholding information...

My other reason is that perhaps he's threatened by the establishment... if he tries to mess with the bankers, refuse to work with the NSA, hide some of these behind the scenes secrets, then perhaps his life or his family's lives might be in danger... if this were the case, then I can understand why Obama did what he did...

Do you really believe that Obama couldn't touch the bankers because of Republican opposition? Commander in chief cannot order people at Guantanamo bay personnel to just relocate? Just doesn't have a clue what NSA was up to?

Or perhaps he's just too busy fighting for Obamacare that he just couldn't care about these other stuffs?

When I voted for Obama, it felt like I voted in a Bernie Sanders, but in the end, I don't think I got what I voted for. On the surface, he is great, but if you dig deeper... well, you'll probably find no information.

[21Kid]

Thankfully, I will not know :)You (and I) will if Mo quotes him again. :angry:




;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, for the sake of some members here, please refrain from quoting me... unless you feel absolutely necessary of course.

[JoshInKC]

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus.
Nit=picked

[Sad, little man]

So 538 made up some hypothetical maps showing what the electoral map would look like if only men or only women voted. Apparently the trump campaign took the map showing only men voting and sent it out in a campaign email as if it was a real map. :lol:

You just can't make the shit up.

https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/786194973444059136

[21Kid]

That still makes me sad that that many men would vote for Drumpf. :(

[21Kid]

:smh:


@USBarbarossa
Major takeaway from this debate: Women are utterly, completely unfit for political arena. This has to end. #RepealThe19th

[Sad, little man]

Ok, and here we go with the actual claims of sexual assault.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/12/two-women-accuse-trump-of-unwanted-sexual-touching/

Wonder what those republicans who endorsed him, then unendorsed him when the video came out, then re-endorsed him this week are going to do now. :|

[Sad, little man]

Heh, you know, I remember after the 2012 election when there was all this talk about "How will the Republican party rebuild and come back for 2016?"

So, four years later, they came back with a bigoted, racist, swindling, sexual predator as their party representative.

Good work, idiots.

[JSGeneral]

So, four years later, they came back with a bigoted, racist, swindling, sexual predator as their party representative...

They'd be better off if they had nominated Bill Cosby.

[novicius]

To be fair, RNC, Inc. was railroaded into it by their sizable collection of idiots, crackpots and supremacists. Kinda backfired on them.

[Sad, little man]

They stoked hate in their base for years. This is what you get when you do that.

[21Kid]

Exactly.

[Crazed_Insanity]

They'd be better off if they had nominated Bill Cosby.

Bill Cosby is a democrat though, plus he actually assaulted women! We'll see if Trump is also a sexual predator...

Btw, Neanderthal, what are you still waiting for?

[21Kid]

1978

[Crazed_Insanity]

The choice isn't binary.

[drew]

:up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm sure Fud is just putting his thumb up my butt! :p

Anyway, seeing that so many posts had been generated, in case Neanderthal missed my earlier response to him, here's a reminder:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-administration-sets-new-record-withholding-foia-requests/
Obama sets new record withholding FOIA requests... is this fact or not? If true, then he would be one of the least transparent admin ever, right? Faux news or real news? Please enlighten me.

Lastly, nit pick Abraham Lincoln for me please.

Thanks.

[21Kid]

Introducing the Trumpkin (http://cheezburger.com/1024773/donald-trump-pumpkins-list-the-favorite-jack-o-lantern-theme-this-year-is-of-course-the-trumpkin)
https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8982689536/hA06D23F1/

[21Kid]

New Jersey judge issues criminal summons against Christie over Bridgegate (http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/13/politics/chris-christie-bridgegate-new-jersey/)

[Freude am Fahren]

Bill Cosby is a democrat though, plus he actually assaulted women! We'll see if Trump is also a sexual predator...

Btw, Neanderthal, what are you still waiting for?

Um, no. Accused, not admitted/proven.

Yeah, he probably has, but you can't just go around convicting people.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, yeah, I know, and OJ is presumed innocent too. But you're just nitpicking here... are you pretty sure that all those women were just bunch of liars? Why are you convicting those women as liars? Evidence is pretty clear against Cosby. But why are we even arguing about this? Who cares about Cosby now whether innocent or not?


New Jersey judge issues criminal summons against Christie over Bridgegate (http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/13/politics/chris-christie-bridgegate-new-jersey/)

About time! Wonder what took so long...

[Sad, little man]

Can I just say that I love how trump says "aeroplane?" I mean, really, who the fuck calls them aeroplanes?

[G'day Mate]

A bit late to the party perhaps, but I just installed the Drumpfinator (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/drumpfinator/hcimhbfpiofdihhdnofbdlhjcmjopilp?hl=en) extension for Chrome. Quite amusing so far.

[21Kid]

Now he's saying that the sexual assault complaints were planted by Hillary... after he admitted that he gets away with it. :twitch:

How are people still taking this guy seriously? I don't understand it. :? Are their standards soooooo low, that all you have to do is say you are a republican and you automatically get their vote?!?

And how are the christians still behind him? There is nothing in his platform that should appeal to them, outside of anti-abortion & anti-gay(barely). And if that trumps all the other vile things... well, I already have feelings about how crooked religion is. This only supports that theory.

Is it because I'm not a die-hard democrat, that I don't blindly follow who ever they put out there? I would like to believe that both parties have valid points. Ideally, I would have preferred Bernie to run & get elected as an independent and have both sides compromise.

Voting for anyone that supports the current republican ideals/platform scares me. They are only working for their own benefit, and not working for the people. There is nothing in trumps policy that would benefit our country. And with how voting has become so party-line lately, it doesn't seem like there's a reasonable choice there any longer. If they keep going down this obstructionist, our-way-or-no-way, screw the other guy (even at the expense of the entire nation), trump backing path. I just don't see that as a party that should be anywhere near our government.

[FaultyMario]

Has the Washington Post always behaved like the New York one?

[drew]

The Washington Post has it in for DJT (and I love it), because he was the first newspaper/source he banned from his rallies.

He also wants to repeal the libel laws, because, you know, you can't make fun of him, or question anything of him.


Fuck Trump.

[FaultyMario]

But isn't it the same news outlet accused of working for the Hillary campaign against BS?

[drew]

I think the WP just endorsed her.

Who the fuck knows at this point. It's all just a shit tsunami.

I don't recall any election being this fucked up. It very well be our last one, ever.

So grab a beer and embrace the horror.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14725594_10210690491756184_6146443579678482108_n.j pg?oh=e250cb04f145e928e52cb65b63cbb6cc&oe=58A0E4F4
(Not Shown: Coach Sandusky watching in the doorway.)

[neanderthal]

I'm sure Fud is just putting his thumb up my butt! :p

Anyway, seeing that so many posts had been generated, in case Neanderthal missed my earlier response to him, here's a reminder:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-administration-sets-new-record-withholding-foia-requests/
Obama sets new record withholding FOIA requests... is this fact or not? If true, then he would be one of the least transparent admin ever, right? Faux news or real news? Please enlighten me.

Lastly, nit pick Abraham Lincoln for me please.

Thanks.

Too easy.

Suspends Habeus Corpus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_Corpus_Suspension_Act_1863)

Deport slaves (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8319858/Abraham-Lincoln-wanted-to-deport-slaves-to-new-colonies.html)

The Long Walk. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Walk_of_the_Navajo)

Censorship. (http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=70018)

Revoking an Emancipation Proclamation before enacting his own (http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=69778)

Promoting inept generals. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrose_Burnside) And again (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Hooker)

His own words
Before the debate at Charleston, Democrats held up a banner that read "Negro equality" with a picture of a white man, a negro woman and a mulatto child.[25] At this debate Lincoln went further than before in denying the charge that he was an abolitionist, saying that:

I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. My understanding is that I can just let her alone. [source] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%E2%80%93Douglas_debates)

It's 00:34hrs and i'm sleepy so i'll just stop here.

[Tom Servo]

I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife.

Holy shit, Crazed_Insanity was around back then too? Sounds like one of his...ahem...black/white arguments. "Well, if it's not this one extreme, then it must be the other extreme, right?"

[neanderthal]

Holy shit, Crazed_Insanity was around back then too? Sounds like one of his...ahem...black/white arguments. "Well, if it's not this one extreme, then it must be the other extreme, right?"

No wonder it's his pick. It resonates with him.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

so Abe the republican sounded crazy at first? Maybe Trump will go down in history as one of the greats?

Also, do you agree that Obama is one of the least transparent great presidents?

[neanderthal]

:lol:

so Abe the republican sounded crazy at first? Maybe Trump will go down in history as one of the greats?

Also, do you agree that Obama is one of the least transparent great presidents?

I think you stuttered, or stammered, or mumbled, or coughed or something. Can you say that again?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Are you going to answer my question or are you just going to be like Jesus and kept on asking me questions?

[neanderthal]

Are you going to answer my question or are you just going to be like Jesus and kept on asking me questions?

Is it frustrating not getting your questions answered? Jesus wept muthafucker!

[drew]

So, you think Trump may be one of the greats, but Bill Clinton was not because he got a BJ?


Just making sure.

What the fucking fuck.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Is it frustrating not getting your questions answered? Jesus wept muthafucker!
Not really. I don't really mind actually. It only proves that you and I are not that different and we're both very Christ-like! ;)

Also, popular presidents are not necessarily great and great presidents are not necessarily popular... And nitpicking is pretty useless.

Lastly, fact is that in terms of transparency, Obama is worse than W. Yeah, I might be nitpicking a possibly great president, let's let historians be the judge of that. For now, I'm disappointed by Obama, DNC, and Hillary. They are for sure 'better' than Trump and the RNC, but I'm still not very happy with them...

Forget terrorists,I'll be happy when big banks quit fucking us over. Democrat establishment can't even accomplish that after 8 years... Oh yeah, that's all because of the Republicans.... Now that the RNC self destructed, let's see if we can finally fix America...

But somehow I think the DNC will continue to blame all the deplorable Americans...

[neanderthal]

Not really. I don't really mind actually. It only proves that you and I are not that different and we're both very Christ-like! ;)

Also, popular presidents are not necessarily great and great presidents are not necessarily popular... And nitpicking is pretty useless.

Lastly, fact is that in terms of transparency, Obama is worse than W. Yeah, I might be nitpicking a possibly great president, let's let historians be the judge of that. For now, I'm disappointed by Obama, DNC, and Hillary. They are for sure 'better' than Trump and the RNC, but I'm still not very happy with them...

Forget terrorists,I'll be happy when big banks quit fucking us over. Democrat establishment can't even accomplish that after 8 years... Oh yeah, that's all because of the Republicans.... Now that the RNC self destructed, let's see if we can finally fix America...

But somehow I think the DNC will continue to blame all the deplorable Americans...

Deplorable Americans are the idiots who keep voting for the worst. Congress. ever. You keep trying to blame a political party but you ain't taking responsibility for your part of the equation.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I voted for democrats all my life, yes, it's about time I vote independent from now on. I don't like RNC and I don't like status quo.

[JSGeneral]

Why didn't you vote for Arnold? He seemed pretty popular back when he became the Guvenator. (And in my opinion was far better than the Democrat option.)

[Crazed_Insanity]

At the time, I really didn't think Gray Davis was so bad that we needed a total recall. Governator also proved that CA's problems really didn't have an easy fix. All he had was his fame and popularity and it was proven to be insufficient... Recall election was a waste of taxpayers money IMHO.

Also what did he do to truly earn my subsequent votes? What did he do to pave his way to the White House like Reagan? The political establishment and voters booted him out and send him back to make more terminator movies. Which is good I guess.

I like his movies, but I really don't think he has what it takes to fix our political problems unless constitution is changed to give terminators extra power!

Anyway, if you're really curious which Republicans I'd go for... I think McCain would've won my vote against Hillary..., but he's no match for Obama's charisma! I like the fact that commander in chief knows what real war is like! Anyway, if a match up against Hillary and Romney, then I'd give my vote to Hillary. So McCain is probably the the only Republican I would possibly vote for.

This year's RNC primary candidates are all pretty lame... I was only initially interested in Trump because he's not really part of the RNC establishment. That is one big positive in my eyes, but he has way too many negatives to compensate for that 1 big positive. Luckily we do have 3rd party candidates. If Bernie Sanders never stir shit up, I probably would've default my vote to Hillary..., but too bad Sanders stirred something up... so I'm not going back.

I'm over the DNC just as I'm over the RNC ever since W became president. Each of those parties might have cool candidates I might vote for in the future, but I'm no longer going to give them my "default" vote. My new default is going to be the Green Party. Give it few more years of this status quo, I'm sure you guys will realize the shitty situation we're in thanks to our current political establishment...

[Sad, little man]

Famous quotes from history:


It is so nice that the shackles have been taken off me and I can now fight for America the way I want to.

Who said it?

A) donald trump

B) Harriet Tubman

[21Kid]

Taco trucks form a 'wall' outside Donald Trump's Vegas hotel (http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/politics/taco-truck-trump-hotel-protest-trnd/index.html)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Besides trucks, an RV made the news!

DNC apologizes for the latest 'leak'! :lol:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-third-presidential-dnc-apologizes-for-latest-clinton-1476886213-htmlstory.html

[Crazed_Insanity]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/16/technology/peter-thiel-donald-j-trump.html

On a more serious note, I wonder why Peter Thiel actually donated to Trump at this stage of the game...

Anyway, I think he is the ONLY Trump supporter who I actually respect.

I suspect he's only supporting him because he really hates the status quo and the establishment too?

[JoshInKC]

It could also be because he's a dick.
For reference, see his funding of the lawsuit against gawker to silence people he doesn't like; His nauseating book "The diversity myth;" His views on women voting; &c., &c.

[George]

Mmm, tacos!

[Crazed_Insanity]

It could also be because he's a dick.
For reference, see his funding of the lawsuit against gawker to silence people he doesn't like; His nauseating book "The diversity myth;" His views on women voting; &c., &c.

Who asked gawker to oust somebody's gayness? Gawker picked the wrong dick to fuck with.

I've only read his zero to one book and seen some interviews on YouTube and don't think he's that bad...

Maybe he's using trump as he used Hogan to further some other agenda is his...

[neanderthal]

It could also be because he's a dick.
For reference, see his funding of the lawsuit against gawker to silence people he doesn't like; His nauseating book "The diversity myth;" His views on women voting; &c., &c.

Billi doesn't know how to research, remember?

[mk]

Donkey of the Decade, must agree.

[Rikadyn]

It could also be because he's a dick.
For reference, see his funding of the lawsuit against gawker to silence people he doesn't like; His nauseating book "The diversity myth;" His views on women voting; &c., &c.

Then again Gawker was a dick for outing a gay man, while in a country that regularly kills gay people. So really that was just two dicks fucking each other and the bigger one won.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Theil is not God and he's never always right, but he has certainly done and made enough right decisions to make himself that rich... and I don't think he's the type who's only interesting in being rich but to actually contribute something to the world, much like Elon Musk.

Do you guys really believe Hillary Clinton more? That anyone who supports Trump absolutely must belong in that basket of deplorables? Like I said, of all the Trump supporters, I respect this guy the most..., next in line would be Clint Eastwood... other than those 2 that I know, I can agree the rest are deplorables... ;)

The dude is a libertarian... so he must be supporting Trump and Johnson, but Trump obviously has a better chance... so he's just doing what's less of the 2 evil in his mind?

As for Gawker, I really don't think I will miss their journalistic work that much now that they're bankrupted because they release somebody's sextape. These assholes also belong in the same basket of deplorables.

[Sad, little man]

Do you guys really believe Hillary Clinton more? That anyone who supports Trump absolutely must belong in that basket of deplorables?

She never said all of his supporters are deplorable. She said half of them are. That leaves half of them which she does not feel are deplorable.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ha! I suppose you're right! :lol:

[Phil_SS]

:hard::devil:Page of the Devil!:devil::hard:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mark zuckerberg came to thiel's defense: http://www.techspot.com/news/66750-leaked-memo-shows-mark-zuckerberg-defending-peter-thiel.html

Anyway, none of these changed my mind to want to switch from Stein back to trump, but I approve of zuckerberg.

Do you truly embrace diversity? If you do, how would you embrace those deplorables?

[Crazed_Insanity]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-robert-creamer-trump-rally-met-1020-20161019-story.html

Again, this piece of news is not intended to give Trump legitimacy, but to show the true colors of the current state of DNC.

[21Kid]

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Who will win the presidency?

Chance of winning

Hillary Clinton - 86.7%
Donald Trump - 13.3%

Dammit! :mad: NY & CA are beating IL!!! :angry:

I still wouldn't take it easy. Everyone still needs to vote. The reality of a Trump presidency is too scary.

[Kchrpm]

Indeed. The chance of winning is far off, but the actual popular vote prediction is only 5.5% off.

[21Kid]

Which still blows my mind... And makes me sad for our country. To think that soooooo many people support him. :smh: I guess more people are actually supporting "Not Hillary", or just the Republican platform, instead of just him.

But, still... :sadbanana:

[Kchrpm]

Their argument is that he has said horrible things, but she has done horrible things. As someone that was supporting Bernie, I can't fully disagree with them. I just don't see how his disposition and intelligence can handle the kind of power and responsibility he will have, and they don't seem to think it's a problem.

[MR2 Fan]

Their argument is that he has said horrible things, but she has done horrible things. As someone that was supporting Bernie, I can't fully disagree with them. I just don't see how his disposition and intelligence can handle the kind of power and responsibility he will have, and they don't seem to think it's a problem.

I think Trump and W share a common trait...they both speak on simple, down to earth terms and don't sound like professional speakers.

[21Kid]

He's said/done plenty of horrible things too. 230 Things Donald Trump Has Said and Done That Make Him Unfit to Be President (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141 _reasons_why.html) A few of those might be exaggerated, but the point remains. Not to mention that most of the stuff he says about her aren't even true.

It always blows my mind how no-one stands up to him when he calls her dishonest, or a liar. He's far worse! It's not even close.
She's actually one of the most honest candidates of any recent election cycle.
http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_who_lies_more.jpg


Do they all just have their heads in the sand and refuse to believe anything else?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/12/18/article-2525602-1A2B2A3600000578-553_634x408.jpg

[Kchrpm]

"No, YOU'RE a liar" doesn't work in a debate. They can't pull up videos and audio to prove it, so it's just he said/she said, and he will yell louder and longer.

[21Kid]

The other frustrating thing, and maybe something that has allowed him to continue lying, is that they never call him on his bullshit.

Donald Trump vs. the videotape at the final debate (http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/10/20/presidential-debate-trump-v-the-videotape-origwx-allee.cnn/video/playlists/third-presidential-debate-2016/)
4 of Donald Trump's statements from the debate stage in Las Vegas didn't seem to match up with existing video.


He fucking lied!!! Don't just pussyfoot around it. You have it on tape, right there!!! Call him out on his own bullshit. :mad:

[21Kid]

Why can't they? ;)

[Tom Servo]

Because Trump supporters will immediately go on a tirade about how unfair the moderator was being.

[MR2 Fan]

Because Trump supporters will immediately go on a tirade about how unfair the moderator was being.

And/or when Hillary lies, people die, blah blah...though she still hasn't gone to prison for all of the stuff the GOP tries to throw at her

[Freude am Fahren]

"No, YOU'RE a liar" doesn't work in a debate.
But apparently, "No, you're a puppet!" does.

[MR2 Fan]

This basically sums up Trump supporters thoughts on Hillary I think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm seriously baffled by the extreme polarizing hatred people have nowadays.

I don't like both candidates, but I'm okay with either one becoming president.

What's worse is that people from each side can genuinely hate supporters of other side! Causing business partnerships, friendships, even families to fracture.

Seriously!?!? What is more important to you? Clinton/Trump or those around you who you care about and have relationships with?

May the most popular lesser of 2 evils win.

[Jason]

President Nasty got business done in that 3rd debate. Hopefully liberals actually turn out and vote, instead of assuming she's going to win.

[Jason]

He's said/done plenty of horrible things too. 230 Things Donald Trump Has Said and Done That Make Him Unfit to Be President (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141 _reasons_why.html) A few of those might be exaggerated, but the point remains. Not to mention that most of the stuff he says about her aren't even true.

It always blows my mind how no-one stands up to him when he calls her dishonest, or a liar. He's far worse! It's not even close.
She's actually one of the most honest candidates of any recent election cycle.
http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_who_lies_more.jpg


Do they all just have their heads in the sand and refuse to believe anything else?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/12/18/article-2525602-1A2B2A3600000578-553_634x408.jpg

Kudos to Jeb, I actually like him, even though I'm not huge on his policies.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, according to isidewith.com, I was something like 49% in agreement with Jeb. This was back when everyone thought he was a shoe-in for the nomination, near the beginning of the process. I felt pretty heartened - even if the Republicans won, he wouldn't be *horrible*. Little did I know...

[Rikadyn]

Do you truly embrace diversity? If you do, how would you embrace those deplorables?

With a combine harvester.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

[21Kid]

This basically sums up Trump supporters thoughts on Hillary I think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

:lol: Pretty much.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Rarely seen humorous side of the 2 candidates...

It'd be awesome if they can actually debate like this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX9pv5GFHXI

[neanderthal]

Mark zuckerberg came to thiel's defense: http://www.techspot.com/news/66750-leaked-memo-shows-mark-zuckerberg-defending-peter-thiel.html

Anyway, none of these changed my mind to want to switch from Stein back to trump, but I approve of zuckerberg.

Do you truly embrace diversity? If you do, how would you embrace those deplorables?

Diversity doesn't extend to ideology, especially when that ideology hurts and or punishes any groups of people by race, sex, gender, sexual identity, economic strata, religion, etc.

Fuck Thiel.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Really?

Constitution "should" protect people from being hurt, but constitution should also allow us the freedom to have various ideologies... Otherwise what would be the point of free speech or religion?

Anyway, so according to what you believe, should zuckerberg be fucked too? If Thiel remains on FB board, should we also fuck Facebook?

Where should one draw the line at what's enough diversity and what's too much?

Lastly, a particular trump supporter most likely doesn't agree with Trump 100%, just as you don't agree with Hillary fully. I suspect Thiel is only giving Trump financial support for the same reason he supported Hogan. Maybe somewhere along the line Hillary crossed Thiel...

[G'day Mate]

It'd be awesome if they can actually debate like this...

Trump got a lot of boos actually. Clinton got some, but it wasn't quite he same

[neanderthal]

Really?

Constitution "should" protect people from being hurt, but constitution should also allow us the freedom to have various ideologies... Otherwise what would be the point of free speech or religion?

Anyway, so according to what you believe, should zuckerberg be fucked too? If Thiel remains on FB board, should we also fuck Facebook?

Where should one draw the line at what's enough diversity and what's too much?

Lastly, a particular trump supporter most likely doesn't agree with Trump 100%, just as you don't agree with Hillary fully. I suspect Thiel is only giving Trump financial support for the same reason he supported Hogan. Maybe somewhere along the line Hillary crossed Thiel...

"Diversity doesn't extend to ideology."

You do understand what diversity is, right?
Free speech is protected under the 1st Amendment of the Constitution, but that doesn't mean we have to sit there and listen to it. You're allowed to express your ideology.

That's a completely separate issue from diversity, which relates to the inclusion of people, groups, creeds, religions, that have been traditionally excluded.

Diversity is allowing everybody a seat at the table. Free speech is allowing everyone at the table to speak. Don't confuse that with forcing everybody else at the table to hear what is being said.
We could all go have a nice GTXF party/ dinner, but you start pontificating about "the system" and we are free to get up and leave. That doesn't mean your rights to free speech are being impinged.

Come on Billi, you aren't that dumb. I think...

[Crazed_Insanity]

I never said free speech means you all have to listen thru Jesus' sermons. It would only protect Jesus from getting crucified.

I'm assuming 'fuck Thiel' means you wouldn't mind crucifying him for donating support to another guy you wish to fuck the shit out of.

I'm just wondering if you would defriend a friend/family/partner if you found out that he is a trump supporter. Just wondering how inclusive is your sense of diversity.

America is obviously VERY diverse politically. How do you see people on the other extreme of the spectrum? Are they still your brothers or mortal enemies?

Anyway, do you want to fuck zuckerberg too or is he okay? Obviously I agree with zuckerberg's version of diversity. Just wondering if you do.

[neanderthal]

You kinda did, by equating the two.


Do you truly embrace diversity? If you do, how would you embrace those deplorables?

The deplorables is not a mono-lingual/ sexual/ ethnic group that is lacking representation and therefor seeking inclusion.

"Do you like the Ford Explorer. If so, how do you explain the Raiders success in the NFL this year?" < This sentence is similar to the quote above.

[Tom Servo]

Are they still your brothers or mortal enemies?

Commander "black & white" at it again. May I recommend you get one of those "word of the day" calendars next year, only every single day should be "nuance".

[Crazed_Insanity]

The deplorables is not a mono-lingual/ sexual/ ethnic group that is lacking representation and therefor seeking inclusion.

They are a political group that speaks English! Problem is that each side is seeking to exclude or fuck the other side. Thus, the 'United' States is a myth, just as our diversity is also mythical.

I seriously hate both sides' problems and I'm pretty sure conservatives don't see me as one of them and the liberals also don't see me as one of them..., but I have no problems seeing them as brothers and fellow Americans. I don't think either candidate deserves my vote but I also have no problems with either one in the Oval Office.

I guess I'm just weird that way.

[Rikadyn]

Really?

Constitution "should" protect people from being hurt, but constitution should also allow us the freedom to have various ideologies... Otherwise what would be the point of free speech or religion?

Constitution only applies to preventing the government from making restrictions.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7VaXlMvAvk&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive

[FaultyMario]

That was awesome!

[Freude am Fahren]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--AvT0Va8D--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/xowumabaxbflbu3dv8wj.jpg

(Shirt says Latina Contra Trump, which is more visible in other pictures, but this is the posed one with tweedle-dumb)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Constitution only applies to preventing the government from making restrictions.

So government cannot persecute Muslims but Donald trump as a civilian can freely persecute Muslims and there are no laws against such persecutions?

[JoshInKC]

Its a bit more complicated than that, but to be glib - Yes. Have you not seen this election cycle? Persecuting Muslims is one of his big things.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So far only Muslim extremists have made the news persecuting infidels in America, from WTC to San Bernardino.

Of course those were simply responses to the terrorist actions of US govt, not limited by the constitution, committed against them in the Middle East....

Then again who knows if everything were orchestrated by our govt or not... Attempting to use fear to take away our rights... Hussein, Bin Laden, and possibly current crop of terrorists were all on CIA payroll.

[Alan P]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7VaXlMvAvk&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive

:lol:

[neanderthal]

Trump "Obamacare is terrible, my employees are having lots of problems with it... yada yada yada"

Reporter "Do you provide healthcare for your employees?"

Trump "Yes I do. I do."

Reporter "So none of them are on Obamacare?"

Trump "No- well some of them are, but most of them no."


:D

Its been illogical since the git

[MR2 Fan]

the twitverse has noticed that a white woman keeps holding up a "blacks for trump" sign at his rallies

[speedpimp]

Rachel Dolezal?

[Tom Servo]

Wow, Monmouth poll of early voters has Clinton with 52, up by 10 over Trump, in Arizona. Arizona!

[21Kid]

Did you actually remember her name Rich? Or did you go look it up?

[Tom Servo]

Since the primary, Bernie has only shown up out here to plug for proposition 61, and his main gist is that it's "standing up to greedy pharmaceutical companies". For those not in CA, Prop 61 is voting on whether to make it so California will pay no more than the federal government's medicare rates for medications. The bill was created by the guy who runs the AIDS Healthcare Foundation - a foundation whose roots are good but the guy running it is now using foundation money to fund campaigns about two other ballot measures as well. One is a ballot measure designed to basically stop all major development in Los Angeles, the other is a campaign to stop Measure M, our local ballot initiative to fund transportation and transit projects. How it's not fraud to be using AIDS Healthcare Foundation money to fund those two campaigns I'll never understand, but apparently it's legal.

Prop 61 only limits the price the state will pay when the state is buying. That basically means for state employees and prisoners. There's nothing forcing the pharmaceutical companies to offer them at that rate, they could just say "we're not selling at that price, go fuck yourselves". There's also nothing forcing them to just jack up the price for everyone else to compensate for the losses if they do decide to sell at that price.

At any rate, presumably you can tell from my rundown that I'm against it and will vote no on it. I think it's poorly thought out and will almost certainly have unintended consequences, none of which will stick it to the pharmaceutical companies. As one of the local papers put it, it's basically a "fuck you" to pharmaceutical companies that does nothing to prevent them from responding with "No, fuck YOU". Still, I feel dirty after the amount of money those companies have paid into the campaign - I always feel like I wish I could write in that "I didn't vote this way because of your bullshit advertisements that you spent millions on", but I can't.

But it definitely makes me think that some of the criticism about Bernie is right. He seems to be campaigning just on the idea that pharmaceutical companies won't like it. I'm sure they won't, that's why they're spending so much to defeat it. That doesn't mean it's a good law. I love a lot of his ideas, and I think the fact that he did as well as he did in the primaries was a good reminder to the DNC that the conversation can move to the left without losing votes. I voted for him with for that specific reason - I knew Hillary was going to win, but I wanted it to be clear that we didn't want republican-lite, we wanted a democrat. But I'm glad he didn't win, he's too much idealist and not pragmatist enough for me.

[Crazed_Insanity]

CA propositions need to go. Voters just cannot possibly know all of the unintended consequences. Voters are always left with the lesser of the 2 evil BS choices. We just don't have to time and energy to figure everything out. If we are going to keep these props around, they should ban big money involvement... all of these props should only have 'grassroot' supporters only.

Of course in this real world, I think the key is to figure out who put in big money to campaign for or against certain propositions. If big pharma is behind something, you can bet I'll be like Bernie and just fuck the side with the biggest money first. Hey, if they fuck us back, we'll just come up with more props to fuck them back. I'm just not going to let big companies with big money getting their way. Hopefully this will give them incentives to stop wasting their money in politics. (Seriously, if you know a law against you is poorly written and you know you can easily get around it, why would you waste too much money campaign against it?)

Yes, that's my voting strategy from now on... vote for the one with least money involved. Hopefully this will encourage the rich to invest money else where more productive than in politics.

The strategy of picking the lesser of the 2 evils is what got us here. It's a strategy works very well for the rich elite, not the 99% of us.

Hillary Clinton is not a billionaire, but she now has most of the support of and 99% and most of the financial support of the top 1%. I'm still going to utilize my same voting strategy of course and I pray that once she holds the land's highest office, she'll finally actually care more about what the 99% have to say and do the will of the people, rather than servant of big established corporations.

[Tom Servo]

While I agree that the proposition system needs to go (and is why I refuse to sign anything that people hassle you to sign outside the grocery store), that voting strategy sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

There are two weeks to go until the election. There are 17 propositions and you've got 14 days. A few of them are pretty basic - 62 would get rid of the death penalty, 58 allows bi-lingual education in schools which repeals a part of 1998's Prop 227 since it hasn't seemed to have the desired effect, 59 doesn't actually do *anything* other than encourage state lawmakers to voice support for overturning Citizens United (but also doesn't really cost much of anything, so it doesn't matter how anyone votes on it), so it's pretty easy to whittle it down to taking some time out of your day to research one proposition a day for the next two weeks.

What do you do in the case of one like 56? Big money on both sides, spending is $30 million for it and $66 million against it. One side is the healthcare industry, the other side is the tobacco industry.

In the meantime, most major newspapers have explanations and recommendations about each of them. They're pretty much in plain english and you can look at a few of them to get some different takes on it and decide what makes sense to you. There are also sites like ballotpedia, KCET has a guide, etc etc etc. You can even just go with a source you trust and pretty much run with their recommendations.

Proposition 52 is pretty much a no-brainer to vote yes on. However, the healthcare industry has spent over $60 million to make sure it passes, because honestly, it would screw a lot of things up if it doesn't pass. They'd lose billions in federal funds that are put to use treating people who are too poor to afford the treatment. It's worth it to drop $60 million to make sure you get $2 billion in federal funds. By your rules, you're voting no on that. The opposition spent $11 million, and have since then changed their status from "opposed" to "neutral". Even the opposition are okay with it now.

If you don't feel like you have the time, inclination, or ability to do some research and try to make an educated vote, I'd honestly prefer you abstain from voting on those things. When it comes to prop 61, it's not just my opinion that you voting yes would either hurt state employees and prisoners or else drive up medication costs for you and me and tons of other people, but you'd just be doing it to stick it to those nasty pharma people.

[Crazed_Insanity]

My other rule with these propositions is to vote no, if it's something I don't understand. This way, we'll maintain status quo, right?

Anyway, with regard to prop52 being a no brainer, I find that hard to believe.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/Prop-52-a-measure-to-fund-Medi-Cal-is-its-own-9213439.php

If it's such a no brainer, why couldn't the law makers just give their bi-partisan support and pass the law themselves? Why leave it up to the brainless voters? If they can't agree, then obviously the issue isn't really a no brainer.

The fact that is has enormous financial support makes me suspicious.

Even if the prop failed to pass, it won't be the end of the world. The law makers and the hospitals will just have to figure out for themselves how to make things better. Again, this no brainer things should be easily resolved with bi-partisan support, right?

I haven't really made up my mind yet, but I will abstain from voting on this one if I still cannot make up my mind.

You know, the other suspicious thing is that hospitals want to make paying this 'fee' permanent in order to get more federal matching dollars. How efficient is that you know? Why don't they just keep their damn fees and focus on giving us better care? Why play such money games? Paying money to the government and then expect government to pay you back more? Who in the end pays for everything? The people who the government taxed! This money game isn't as no brainer as you think.

[Tom Servo]

Hey! I got you to actually research something! I'd like to look at that article, but it's blocked when I'm on my work VPN, so it'll have to wait until later.

Still, I consider that a victory. I'd still prefer you just abstain rather than vote no, as you might actually prevent someone getting something that might make their lives demonstrably better because you didn't bother to research it, but it's a better default position than "the one that had less money spent on it."

At any rate, my understanding is that it's a proposition because currently the state legislature can choose to take some of those fees/matching funds and divert them from hospitals towards the general fund. The proposition's language changes that to make the fee program a) permanent, b) ear-marked to go to Medi-Cal services, and c) require a two-thirds majority vs. a simple majority to change those rules. I'll also note that the proposition itself actually *does* have bi-partisan support. Only one CA politician, Tom McClintock, opposes it. I'll attach the list of politicians that do support it to the end, as it's so goddamn long that it would fuck up the post.

EDIT: Just read the SF Chronicle article. It in no way endorsed opposition. But if it didn't pass, it would mean that Medi-Cal would cost even more money to CA, as hospitals still have to treat people who can't pay. So maybe not the end of the world, but certainly a worse situation.

In the meantime, no newspaper has endorsed voting no.

The following have endorsed voting yes.


The Bakersfield Californian
East Bay Express
East Bay Times
Los Angeles Times
The Mercury News
The Press Democrat
The Record
The Sacramento Bee
San Diego City Beat
San Diego Union-Tribune
San Francisco Chronicle (the newspaper you cited)
San Francisco Examiner
Santa Maria Times
Ventura County Star


So yeah. I'm still filing that under "no-brainer".

EDIT again: This article explains why it's a proposition. http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-medi-cal-proposition-52-20161005-snap-story.html

Appendix - officials that support 52.
*deep breath*
US. Rep. Anna Eshoo (D), U.S. Rep. John Garamendi (D), U.S. Rep. Alan Lowenthal (D), U.S. Rep. Grace Napolitano (D), U.S. Rep. Brad Sherman (D), Sen. Kevin de Leon (D), Sen. Jean Fuller (R), Sen. Joel Anderson (R), Sen. Patrician Bates (R), Sen. Tom Berryhill (R), Sen. Anthony Cannella (R), Sen. Ted Gaines (R), Sen. Cathleen Galgiani (D), Sen. Isadore Hall (D), Sen. Ben Hueso (D), Sen. Bob Huff (R), Sen. John Moorlach (R), Sen. Mike Morrell (R), Sen. Jim Nielsen (R), Sen. Richard Pan (D), Sen. Richard D. Roth (D), Sen. Sharon Runner (R), Sen. Jeff Stone, Sen. Andy Vidak (R), Sen. Bob Wieckowski (D), Rep. Chad Mayers (R), Rep. Katcho Achadijian (R), Rep. Luis Alejo (D), Rep. Travis Allen (R), Rep. Joaquin Arambula (D), Rep. Toni Atkins (D), Rep. Catharine Baker (R), Rep. Frank Bigelow (R), Rep. Richard Bloom (D), Rep. Susan Bonilla (D), Rep. Rob Bonta (D), Rep. Autumn Burke (D), Rep. Cheryl Brown (D), Rep. Ian Calderon (D), Rep. Ling-Ling Chang (R), Rep. Rocky Chavez (R), Rep. Ken Cooley (D), Rep. Jim Cooper (D), Rep. Matt Dababneh (D), Rep. Brian Dahle (R), Rep. Tom Daly (D), Rep. Bill Dodd (D), Rep. Susan Talamantes Eggman (D), Rep. Jim Frazier (D), Rep. Beth Gaines (R), Rep. James Gallagher (R), Rep. Eduardo Garcia (D), Rep. Mike Gatto (D), Rep. Mike Gipson (D), Rep. Adam Gray (D), Rep. Shannon Grove (R), Rep. David Hadley (R), Rep. Chris Holden (D), Rep. Jacqui Irwin (D), Rep. Brian Jones (R), Rep. Reginald Jones-Sawyer (D), Rep. Young Kim (R), Rep. Tom Lackey (R), Rep. Marc Levine (D), Rep. Eric Linder (R), Rep. Patty Lopez (D), Rep. Evan Low (D), Rep. Brian Maienschein (R), Rep. Devon Mathis (R), Rep. Kevin McCarty (D), Rep. Jose Medina (D), Rep. Melissa Melendez (R), Rep. Patrick O'Donnell (D), Rep. Kristin Olsen (R), Rep. Jim Patterson (R), Rep. Bill Quirk (D), Rep. Freddie Rodriguez (D), Rep. Miguel Santiago (D), Rep. Marc Steinorth (R), Rep. Don Wagner (R), Rep. Marie Waldron (R), Rep. Scott Wilk (R), Rep. Jim Wood (D), Mayor Kevin L. Faulconer (R) (San Diego), Mayor Kevin Johson (D) (Sacramento), Mayor Libby Schaaf (D) (Oakland), Solano County Supervisors.
*exhale*

Excuse any typos, the list wasn't easily copy-pasteable.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This is really the kind of prop that makes me nervous. Yes, it does appear as a no brainer with bi-partisan support, so why do I need to get involved again?

Such a clear case with seemingly no opposition, then why couldn't a judge get involved and deliver a judgment already? Instead we have to wait 4 years and be called in to become jurors to make a final verdict?

You don't find that odd?

Spending so much money on something this clear cut?

Why don't they just spend the money$60 mil on actual healthcare? Hmm... Yeah, I'm sure they are really in it to help poor patients...

Anyway, per your request, I'll just skip this prop this time. There are for sure bigger fish to fry during this election. But I hope you understand my skepticism.

[neanderthal]

How can you be so paranoid yet fail to research the basic themes you're paranoid about?


"Yes, it appears to be a no brainer with bi partisan support, so why do I need to support it."

Because people who don't research bills and propositions, but who do vote, have got us to this point.

SO DO YOUR PART AND DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE VOTING. Otherwise just shut the fuck up about the consequences of the election. I actually wish there was some kind of law that said that...

[Tom Servo]

Because judges don't make law. The legislature and the voting public does. Given people moaning about activist judges, could you imagine the shit if they started implementing laws? But that's how government works.

That LA Times article explains it pretty well. The association of hospitals wants to make it impossible to divert Medi-Cal funds into the general fund and to make the fee permanent to continue to get matching federal funds. If they didn't do that, the government could continue to take some of the funds, and they'd have to renegotiate the fee every few years. However, as you have very clearly demonstrated, it's not necessarily the easiest thing to understand. $60 million is a drop in the bucket vs. the billions that it locks into place.

At any rate, to answer your questions:

1) Everyone should get involved because we live in a democratic republic and part of everyone's duty as a citizen is to both educate themselves on what they're voting on and then vote.

2) A judge couldn't just deliver a judgment because they're not legally allowed to. Also, we elect presidents every four years, we have statewide elections far more often. Hint, there's another one coming in March.

3) I don't find it odd. It's an issue that probably most politicians don't worry too much about except when it comes to the every-few-years renegotiation. Now, to be fair, I did find it odd at first. Then I did about 20 minutes of research.

4) It might turn out that it costs less to start a proposition and advertise for it in what makes it a slam dunk situation than it would to continually lobby politicians. Think about it. $60 million to get it to this point where it's basically universally seen as a good thing. As many articles point out, it's brought in $3.7 billion in matching federal funds some years. And it makes it a permanent thing. It pays for itself in the first year, and the rest is gravy. Also, note that previously the government appropriated nearly $1 billion and put it in the general fund. Would you pay $60 million to guarantee that someone else can't take $1 billion from you? I would.

5) Why don't they spend it on actual healthcare? Same reason you might invest money instead of spending it immediately on groceries. Spending what amounts to a pittance now stands to make, at a low estimate, a 3300% return, and that's just in the first year.

I'm skeptical mostly because I don't generally like ear marks. Sometimes I think it's smart to put money originally meant for something else into the general fund so it can be spent where it's needed now. Priorities change over time, and sometimes money gets locked into a specific slot that no longer is a priority. Similar reason I'm voting no on 53. I think demanding a statewide vote on any bond over $2 billion might make sense now, but what about 20 years from now, when $2 billion is more common? I mean, the 405 expansion was $1.5 billion, as was the Expo Line expansion. I'd expect $2 billion to not be totally unusual 20 years from now for major infrastructure projects.

I also hate the prop 52 advertisements.

Being skeptical is fine. However, at this point, this seems more like buying into some conspiracy theory, where every politician save one and every newspaper out here is just out to trick you.

EDIT: I saw this about Trump advocating for increased funding for NASA for space exploration. I wouldn't vote for Trump in a second, but totally agree with this. The phrase "even a broken clock is right twice a day" came up. It's good to have the "why are these people spending all this money" alarm bells there. I got them too. That doesn't guarantee that the money is being used for evil.

Anyway, I think we've got the research done on 52 today, so congratulations! Tomorrow, go for 51. That's a much tougher one to choose!

[neanderthal]

In other news all Icelandic women left work yesterday at 2:38pm or some like that. Apparently they get paid 68% of what men get paid, I don't know if that is a figure that applies to all women in all occupations or not, it's unlikely it applies to all of them. Anyway, yesterdays date and time signify the moment when they, theoretically, don't get paid the rest of the year.


I'm all for equal pay.

I'm not for equal pay if your ass is always at your kids soccer games while i'm busting my ass working. If you have chosen to have kids, and it's a fucking choice, there are plenty of prophylactics available, then taking care of them is your business. When studies say "but women spend more time taking care of their children" in reference to them making less money, the first thing that comes to my mind is "[b]they are the ones who wanted them!!!!!!! That's their problem...[b/]" But that's a rant for another day.

Anyway, great show of political will, and clout by Icelandic women.
A co worker of mine actually asked the question "but, why not just fire them for walking out on the job..." Where's the smiley that bangs its head on the wall?

[KillerB]

I work in the healthcare industry. I can tell you that when all those groups TS mentioned agree on something (in this case, Prop 52), it's usually a good idea.

I'm also no on 61.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, I think we've got the research done on 52 today, so congratulations! Tomorrow, go for 51. That's a much tougher one to choose!

Yeah, anyway, my usage of a 'judge' was simply for analogy. 'Judge'=>legislators and 'Juror'=>voters. If a case this clear cut and dry with pretty much no defense/opposition, legislators should be able to just pass the damn thing without a need for us voters to intervene. Just as if a case this simple, then a judgment should be delivered quickly without any delay nor a need to assemble a bunch of jurors... It's just mind boggling that legislators can't get the job done even without any political gridlock!

So, as you stated, the likely reason is that although legislators don't really oppose this 'good idea', they also don't have any incentives nor urgency to pass it either... because it doesn't really help them personally. If that's the real truth, then it's pretty sad... that our lawmakers are really this selfish. Without lobbyists paying them off, they have no motivations for doing their jobs properly for the good of the people they supposedly serve... sigh...

Also, federal matching dollars is in place to encourage state government to put up more funds, not really for the hospitals to game the system to generate more funds... Just as state's Lotto income was suppose to supplement state's education, but in the end, as Lotto income grew, state would end up cutting funding on education. CA state govt is really pathetic...

So worst case scenario is that hospital CEO make end up getting a bit richer? I suppose if the state really need to 'divert' the funds for emergency use, they can always come up with a 2/3 vote to overcome this prop later... Another possible future pitfall is that... as state govt is becoming less able to generate income... if conditions don't improve, federal govt will end up in a similar boat and may end up ceasing matching the money. Wonder if this prop will keep forcing the hospitals to pay the fees?

Anyway, it's a pretty messy prop born out of messy situation, but I think I can see it does deliver more +s than -s now... Thanks TS. :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

How can you be so paranoid yet fail to research the basic themes you're paranoid about?
I think we can agree Faux News can't be trusted. However, after seeing how the liberal media treated... or ignored Bernie Sanders, you think you can still trust them? I think my follow the money rules can still be applicable to most propositions or candidates. Examine who's funding what and for how much..., then it should be easy to figure out which is the most evil. Of course this is NOT an absolute rule, but I think it's a good rule of thumb.


Because people who don't research bills and propositions, but who do vote, have got us to this point.
That's the problem of democracy. That's why I don't think we should allow big corporations sponsoring these propositions to trick voters. Most of us are just not that smart. Most of us are just not lawyers or lawmakers. We elected legislators to do their jobs... not to toss the responsibility back at us. If we're unhappy with their job performance, we can elect somebody else..., but we really shouldn't be passing laws over their heads... voters can be easily duped. Corruption of the politicians can be fixed by passing laws, but stupidity of the voters cannot! :p

[Tom Servo]

As for why the legislators couldn't do this themselves and it had to go on the ballot, the best person to ask that question of would be your elected state representative.

[Kchrpm]

All I want to know is what are you Californians voting on Prop 60. It affects a good friend of mine...no, not that one!

[21Kid]

I'm all for equal pay.

I'm not for equal pay if your ass is always at your kids soccer games while i'm busting my ass working. If you have chosen to have kids, and it's a fucking choice, there are plenty of prophylactics available, then taking care of them is your business. When studies say "but women spend more time taking care of their children" in reference to them making less money, the first thing that comes to my mind is "[b]they are the ones who wanted them!!!!!!! That's their problem...[b/]" But that's a rant for another day.

Anyway, great show of political will, and clout by Icelandic women.
A co worker of mine actually asked the question "but, why not just fire them for walking out on the job..." Where's the smiley that bangs its head on the wall? I was listening to that topic on this podcast (http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender-pay-gap-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/) and it seams that mostly, women choose family time over pay. Where the men choose the opposite. Which is why there is a difference.

[Tom Servo]

Helpful analysis of *why* we're voting on Prop 52.



If this is so good, why are we citizens voting on it?

The people who wrote this proposition, the California Hospital Association (those who get taxed), didn't want legislators wrangling with the terms.[5] It works well as is, they contend. The state already takes about a quarter of it for the General Fund, but if sides start squabbling, they might take more, or the tax might not get renewed. The Hospital Association says this money is crucial.[..] Hence, they want it protected in the constitution (but with the ability for it to be repealed with a 2/3 vote).[3]


As far as 60 is concerned, I'm voting no. I agree with the LA Times analysis. The mandatory STD testing that the mainstream porn industry does has prevented on-set HIV transmission for the past ten years. Requiring this will either drive porn production out of state, which hurts us tax-wise, or underground, which means not only will they not be wearing condoms, they probably won't be doing the mandatory testing either.

Also, the law allows basically *anybody* to file suit if they see a porno without condom usage. Any random idiot, including one who wants to stalk a porn star, could file a suit.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-vote-no-proposition-60-20160922-snap-story.html

This is another one funded by the AIDS Healthcare guy, but at least this one is AIDS related.

[neanderthal]

I think we can agree Faux News can't be trusted. However, after seeing how the liberal media treated... or ignored Bernie Sanders, you think you can still trust them? I think my follow the money rules can still be applicable to most propositions or candidates. Examine who's funding what and for how much..., then it should be easy to figure out which is the most evil. Of course this is NOT an absolute rule, but I think it's a good rule of thumb.

Dude. Watching Faux News or MSNBC is NOT what I consider doing research.



That's the problem of democracy. That's why I don't think we should allow big corporations sponsoring these propositions to trick voters. Most of us are just not that smart. Most of us are just not lawyers or lawmakers. We elected legislators to do their jobs... not to toss the responsibility back at us. If we're unhappy with their job performance, we can elect somebody else..., but we really shouldn't be passing laws over their heads... voters can be easily duped. Corruption of the politicians can be fixed by passing laws, but stupidity of the voters cannot! :p

Then we, the collective, need to do exactly that. It's not rocket science. And you don't have to be a doctor or engineer to understand that.

We really should start with the WORST. CONGRESS. EVER.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude. Watching Faux News or MSNBC is NOT what I consider doing research.




Then we, the collective, need to do exactly that. It's not rocket science. And you don't have to be a doctor or engineer to understand that.

We really should start with the WORST. CONGRESS. EVER.

The worst congress ever is not just the result of voters not doing their research, but the political establishment feeding voters bogus crappy lesser of the 2 evil choices... The worst congress ever is made up of lots of mini-Hillaries and mini-Trumps duking out in Congress... voters are brain-washed into believing we only have 2 choices. Other choices would be a waste of their votes.

Actually, we only have ONE choice. Think about it. If you're unhappy with your democratic congressman in your district, would you replace him/her with a republican next time? Highly unlikely, right? So you're stuck voting for Hillary bro!

Besides fighting corruption, best way to ease our political tension is to love one another. Have the Reds and the Blues breed with each other so that the entire US becomes purple! Jesus is absolutely right. We need to love one another. Polarization needs to stop!

[Crazed_Insanity]

As far as 60 is concerned, I'm voting no. I agree with the LA Times analysis. The mandatory STD testing that the mainstream porn industry does has prevented on-set HIV transmission for the past ten years. Requiring this will either drive porn production out of state, which hurts us tax-wise, or underground, which means not only will they not be wearing condoms, they probably won't be doing the mandatory testing either.

Also, the law allows basically *anybody* to file suit if they see a porno without condom usage. Any random idiot, including one who wants to stalk a porn star, could file a suit.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-vote-no-proposition-60-20160922-snap-story.html

This is another one funded by the AIDS Healthcare guy, but at least this one is AIDS related.

Prop 60 has to be the most dumbest, pointless prop EVER! Why not force this issue on everyone who has sex outside of marriage too? Yep, it's just not black and white enough for my taste! ;)

The intention's good, right? Only trying to prevent spread of STDs! What's wrong with that? However, this is similar to Roe V Wade: pro-saving-lives or pro-allowing-choice... As Americans, we ought to not allow government to force something on anybody. Of course, hopefully people will make wise choices too.

If a porn star really really wish to protect him/herself, safest bet is retirement. If someone is forced into this occupation, then this law providing condoms probably offers little comfort for the poor porn star...

Bottomline is that this prop shouldn't even appear on the ballot, let alone deserving a yes vote.

[Alan P]

If this passes I could see a lot of studios moving elsewhere. Does anyone in the US watch porn because it's made in America? Of course not.

[21Kid]

Don't others want to see people that look like them though? I don't see it being exported to be made in a different country.

[speedpimp]

Did you actually remember her name Rich? Or did you go look it up?

Remembered it.

[MR2 Fan]

The worst congress ever is not just the result of voters not doing their research, but the political establishment feeding voters bogus crappy lesser of the 2 evil choices... The worst congress ever is made up of lots of mini-Hillaries and mini-Trumps duking out in Congress... voters are brain-washed into believing we only have 2 choices. Other choices would be a waste of their votes.

Actually, we only have ONE choice. Think about it. If you're unhappy with your democratic congressman in your district, would you replace him/her with a republican next time? Highly unlikely, right? So you're stuck voting for Hillary bro!

Besides fighting corruption, best way to ease our political tension is to love one another. Have the Reds and the Blues breed with each other so that the entire US becomes purple! Jesus is absolutely right. We need to love one another. Polarization needs to stop!

that's part of it, but the other part is that there's no super-majorities to pass anything. So instead we get stale-mates for nearly everything.

Congress does nothing except try to pass the same rejected laws over and over again (Obamacare 40+ times? that is insanity and uselessness of the highest order!)

Not enough people care or know enough about the democratic process it seems like....so many people for a President but don't vote for Congress to support the President during the non-Presidential election years.

The Presidential candidates don't do enough to provide a unified platform to make people want to vote for congress seats.

Then after the stalemate and stagnation, President Obama uses the executive order option to get things done like actually having someone in charge of the TSA (I believe it was)? and everyone loses their minds that he didn't let Congress keep NOT doing anything on it.

[Tom Servo]

Another good article on the CA proposition system.

https://ballot.fyi/general/

[MR2 Fan]

Oh look, the Oregon Standoff idiots were acquitted, there's a big shock. Apparently it's perfectly fine to overrun a federal government building as long as you're white. If these were muslims or black people, they wouldn't have survived one day.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/10/27/oregon-standoff-leaders-acquitted/92859662/

[TheBenior]

The last time Native American protestors took over federal land, the federal government let it go on for 19 months and dwindle down to 15 people before forcibly removing them.

[neanderthal]

Oregon militia found not guilty.

Interesting. Esp considering the Dakota access pipeline protest that was recently shut down.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oh look, the Oregon Standoff idiots were acquitted, there's a big shock. Apparently it's perfectly fine to overrun a federal government building as long as you're white. If these were muslims or black people, they wouldn't have survived one day.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/10/27/oregon-standoff-leaders-acquitted/92859662/

They're only not guilty of conspiracy and possession of firearms. The white folks are not beyond the laws. Bundy is still being held on other charges.

Problem with blacks is that they rarely survive the standoffs. Of course black folks are also disadvantaged in courts too because they usually lack good defense attorneys... Moral of the story is that if you're non-white, best bet is to play dead upon arrival of cops, make things easy for them. Don't try to confuse the dumb cops that you're the home owner who needs help, even if you're the one who dialed 911 for help! Only when in the safety of an ambulance or back of a cop car, then tell your story. Further, brush up on law so that you can defend yourself better... if you are too poor to afford an attorney.

If you're white, then yeah, you might have a fighting chance in a standoff, but still, don't expect the police or the FBI to treat you nicely. They might still hurt you or kill you in the process..., just that you'll have a higher survival rate... and in courts, since both sides are white, you'll also get a less biased judge/juror.

If you're black, don't get involved at those protests. Unless you're a rich powerful celebrity or something... or unless if it's really truly for a worthy cause... worth sacrificing your life!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Back to props:

Another good article on the CA proposition system.

https://ballot.fyi/general/

I really think we need a prop to end the props.

Or some sort of modification to prevent rich folks bypassing the legislators and go directly to the stupid easily manipulated voters.

If we are going to keep them, we ought to reserve them for use to overcome widely known and dragged out issues stuck in political gridlock. If our political leaders cannot make a decision or do not want the responsibility of making a decision(such as gay marriage or Californixit), then I can understand voters directly take over such awesome responsibility.

Otherwise, I really don't think it should be up to voters to decide whether hospitals should be able to permanently pay a fee to get more federal money to help poor patients... or whether if porn stars should wear condoms... WTF man?!?!?!?

[drew]

Oh look, the Oregon Standoff idiots were acquitted, there's a big shock. Apparently it's perfectly fine to overrun a federal government building as long as you're white. If these were muslims or black people, they wouldn't have survived one day.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/10/27/oregon-standoff-leaders-acquitted/92859662/


Exactly, So, fuck em. Fuck the judicial system in this case, fuck the fuckbags that "occupied" the place. If I recall, they have a bunch of rubber dicks that could be utilized.

[21Kid]

Congress does nothing except try to pass the same rejected laws over and over again (Obamacare 40+ times? that is insanity and uselessness of the highest order!)

according to CBS, the grand total, with 50 attempts to repeal, is now at $75 million of your dollars completely wasted over nothing... It was therefore spent on nothing and Republicans in the House, are the ones solely responsible.
What a waste. :(
Benghazi was pretty wasteful too, although not quite as bad.

According to the Benghazi Research Center, however, the investigation involved 10 congressional committees and the disclosure of at least 100,000 documents. It went on to report that the House Select Committee on Benghazi alone devoured over $6.8 million of taxpayers' money, or nearly $8,000 per day.

[Crazed_Insanity]

There's more waste coming because they found more emails!!!

Anyway, I seriously think we probably need to get rid of obamacare in order to prevent further waste. Red folks just refuse to get in board with this....

We ought to just have 2 payer independent healthcare... Called the blue care and red care. Each can be created and modified by politicians of different political color... So they can run each however they want without gridlock from the other side. For the folks signing up, the only condition is that republicans cannot join blue care and democrats cannot join red care. Only indepents can freely choose either.

Run this for a decade and see which system is better. Then we can eventually adopt one... Or perhaps both work fine then we can keep both. Or if care cost continue to rise... Then we'll just repeal both and try again!

[Tom Servo]

Back to props:


I really think we need a prop to end the props.

Or some sort of modification to prevent rich folks bypassing the legislators and go directly to the stupid easily manipulated voters.

If we are going to keep them, we ought to reserve them for use to overcome widely known and dragged out issues stuck in political gridlock. If our political leaders cannot make a decision or do not want the responsibility of making a decision(such as gay marriage or Californixit), then I can understand voters directly take over such awesome responsibility.

Otherwise, I really don't think it should be up to voters to decide whether hospitals should be able to permanently pay a fee to get more federal money to help poor patients... or whether if porn stars should wear condoms... WTF man?!?!?!?

I'm not sure if you read the NY Times article that linked to (I actually didn't notice it until just now), but it looks like the ballot proposition thing was introduced back in the 1910's as a way to counteract money in CA politics. It was supposed to be a way to make sure that something could get passed if it was the will of the people, and to lessen the influence of business on the legislature. It specifically mentions Prop 56. The CA legislature has failed 17 times to pass any sort of change to the tobacco tax, which currently is well under the national average, presumably due to lobbying from the tobacco industry since CA is an overwhelmingly left-leaning and anti-smoking state.

According to the article, people generally vote no on propositions. The status quo is often preferable to change for people, unless a lot of money is spent to convince them otherwise (see Prop 52).

The reason it is the way it is? Most of the populace won't bother to educate themselves and vote unless advertised to to death about it.

Keep that in mind next time you are upset about the proposition system and the money involved. The best way to beat that system is to educate yourself and vote the way that you think makes the most sense.

[Crazed_Insanity]

When I don't trust myself and other voters, whether due to laziness or herd mentality or genuine stupidity, it becomes difficult for me to support this.

Yes, getting voters educated and motivated is definitely a good thing, but current way of doing things need to be changed too in order to avoid the rich manipulating the system further.

[Tom Servo]

To an extent, I agree. I'm torn on the proposition system. The more I think about it, it's fundamentals seem solid, but it takes advantage of an apathetic populace that is swayed by TV ads. I thought the strategic positioning of when things go on the ballot was interesting (the marijuana legalization bill being put on this ballot specifically because democrats tend to have lower turnout except in presidential elections, and democrats being more likely to vote to legalize it). In the end, my best defense against money is to educate myself and convince those I know to do the same. So, that's what I'm doing.

[Tom Servo]

The Final Days of Trump's Unprecedented Campaign (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/trump-campaign-final-days.html?mid=twitter-share-di)

This is going to make an awesome HBO movie in a few years.

[Crazed_Insanity]

From the establishment, we end up with Hillary. Because of 'democracy', we ended up with Trump.

Lose lose situation for America...

Anyway, if Hillary wins, at least I can take comfort knowing that she is truly the most qualified candidate.

If trump wins because FBI whisks Hillary away, then at least I can take comfort seeing the complete implosion of our political establishment.

Still going to cast my vote for Jill, who I believe is the most ideal for America at this critical juncture.

[neanderthal]

The "establishment" isn't why we ended up with Hillary. People not bothering to educate themselves and then also not showing up to vote in massive numbers against her is why we have Hillary.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Voter turn out didn't break 2008 record, but was on the high side. If there weren't media black out of Sanders, I'm sure # would climb even higher for the DNC primary.

I can't believe you still think it was the voters who are to blame. Anyway, let's just agree to disagree.

[drew]

The Final Days of Trump's Unprecedented Campaign (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/trump-campaign-final-days.html?mid=twitter-share-di)

This is going to make an awesome HBO movie in a few years.

Which was the whole point of his "campaign". There's no way he was/is seriously running for president, rather a book/docu deal on the whole circus afterward.

[FaultyMario]

And a lot in managing fees off the donations from his finance guys.

[21Kid]

His "brand" is taking such a hit that he isn't naming his newest development "Trump"whatever.

link (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/damaged-brand-new-trump-hotels-will-no-longer-bear-his-name/)

[Jason]

Which was the whole point of his "campaign". There's no way he was/is seriously running for president, rather a book/docu deal on the whole circus afterward.

Which makes it even sadder that he has a lot of momentum right now, heading into voting day.

[Kchrpm]

Found out I could do early voting on the weekend, took care of things yesterday and rewarded myself with a big ol burrito :up:

[21Kid]

:sadbanana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8yiYCHMAlM

[21Kid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RmvvvM1-vo

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just out of curiosity...

How many pussy cats Donald Trump has to grab in order for a Trump supporter to switch to Hillary?

And...

How crooked Hillary has to be in order for her supporters to switch to Trump?

My guess is that there's just no possible way for either supporters to switch sides, right? Because all the supporters are mostly just against the other side... The only possible way for a switch is for folks to discover some sort of pleasant surprises about the other side, that the other side isn't really THAT bad, but very good!!! But of course elections are never run that way...

Anyway, the FBI director is really baffling... a conservative, yet nominated by Obama. Decided that they had no case against Clinton in July... and then all of a sudden they have a case now, but still has little evidences to show for... or overwhelming amount of emails to read and it'd impossible to sort it all out before election...

Most interesting election, in a reality TV kinda way, EVER!

Anyway, just hope we survive this...

[MR2 Fan]

Every major election I wonder what percentage of voters are truly "undecided" going into the campaign season and also, how many voters don't strictly vote down party lines

[Crazed_Insanity]

There are probably quite a bit that just don't care and the current way of campaigning most likely made this group care even less.

As for those who actually care to vote, they are probably pretty polarized already.

Personally I don't ever recall voting for a Republican for anything.

I guess I'm the minority who'd actually care enough to vote and sort of switched, for neither of the 2 major parties.

My wife has said she's not going to participate this year. She just can't vote for either candidate and I couldn't even convince her to vote for Stein. :|

[Phil_SS]

I've been a registered Independent since I was 18. Unfortunately that means I can't vote in the primary here in PA but that isn't going to get me to change my affiliation. I vote for who I want, never down party lines.

[Jason]

If it wasn't for justice seats being a big thing this election, I'd probably abstain. Hillary has experience, and intelligence, but also way too much shadiness and arrogance. I really don't care to vote for her. But I sure as shit don't want a Trump presidency, and I don't want him selecting justices.

I really wish the Green Party actually took itself seriously. Stein is a joke of a candidate. Sanders, ironically, would be a good headpiece since they align very closely on policies.

[Tom Servo]

I've been a registered Independent since I was 18. Unfortunately that means I can't vote in the primary here in PA but that isn't going to get me to change my affiliation. I vote for who I want, never down party lines.

Can't you do that anyway even if you register for a specific party? I'm registered Democrat, but I could still vote for Trump if I had a lobotomy^H^H^H^H^Hwanted to. The only difference I see is that I get to vote in the democratic primary, but otherwise it has basically no effect on my life.

[21Kid]

That amazes me, that only specifically registered people can vote in a primary. :smh: Talk about forcing a divide. What if I wasn't sure about which candidate I wanted and want to have the best option from each party?!?

Obviously that didn't happen on either side this time.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think the restriction kinda make sense... because people outside the party might intentionally vote for a weakest candidate in order to weaken the party during general election.

Anyway, Democratic party allows CA independents to vote in their primary. Republicans don't allow that, but I really couldn't care less anyway...

However, it didn't really matter much anyway. In retrospect, perhaps the system was "rigged"..., during primary election, initially I voted ONLY for Sanders and didn't bother voting anything else on the ballot because I didn't really research much on those local stuffs..., but the ballot machine rejected my ballot, thinking it was blank. The volunteers there said I need to make MORE selections... so I ended up voting for couple of more democrats... so the machine was finally able to 'accept' my ballot. Now I wonder if they really counted my Sanders vote...