Politics

[Rikadyn]

I generally don't believe in voting in the systems that are in place today. It is more or less just contributing to your own oppression at this point. However, it is near impossible to not vote as a political statement in this country and not have it just washed away under the wave of apathy.

[MR2 Fan]

I generally don't believe in voting in the systems that are in place today. It is more or less just contributing to your own oppression at this point. However, it is near impossible to not vote as a political statement in this country and not have it just washed away under the wave of apathy.

Agreed. I think we need a single voting standard, on a Saturday...the same type of voting machine standard across the U.S., re-districting/gerrymandering should be severely limited, and voting laws should also be the same across the U.S.

[Jason]

But states rights/freedom etc.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think our main problem is that we are not really voting 'for' anybody or anything but merely voting against candidates and issues. We can't have what we want so we're just voting against what we don't want...

Basically we're just not going anywhere we really want to go and we're making each other's lives miserable by blocking each other whenever we can.

[Godson]

Billi, the system was designed to create blocking. That way you can't really move that fast.

Fuck this thread/year is depressing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Check and balance could certainly be considered as blocking, but that should be politicians' job, not us voters. When the entire voting population is simply voting to block others vs voting for something they really want, the voting game becomes boring and often times hurtful. Reality is that majority of Americans don't like either Trump nor Hillary. Yet our current system still forced them down our throats. It used to be that it's the political establishment that forces the 2 evils upon us, but this time the system does it anyway against the establishments will... Maybe trump team simply got the system all figured out.

Anyway, my point is that current voting system needs to be fixed. Previously the establishment had little incentive to change it, now it may be thinking twice about that....

[neanderthal]

areyousorryyet.com

The lols

[Yw-slayer]

Indeed. :lol:

[drew]

Good shit, if not pathetic.

What frightens/angers me the most with that, is there seems to be a general regret/flop on him, because he said he wasn't going to prosecute HRC.

Hey, dumbfucks, she was never indicted. After millions of wasted dollars and countless wasted hours/effort, they never found anything valid to file an actual indictment.

Add to that, they're so dense they can't seem to realize that the FBI/Comey "found 650k new emails" thing was 100% planned/orchestrated. They announce that the night before early voting starts, and then the night before the open election, say "there's nothing there, nothing to see here". What a coincidence!

Comey shouldn't have a fucking job (especially when he comes out a month later and says "yep, Russia fucked with the election". You twat.

#FuckTrump

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't see anything funny about that... Unless if we somehow found out that Trump is a closet democrat?

[Godson]

Dude calling Donald out on his Flag burning = Jail time comment.

Gold.


For the record, I don't like it when people destroy, tarnish, burn the flag. It angers and upsets me. However, it is without a doubt a first amendment right. So fuck him and his clueless ass.

[MR2 Fan]

I honestly don't give a crap about flag burning...it's just a symbol and usually relates to specific policies or government actions people are protesting.

Of course I've never been a nationalist of any kind either....oh I was lucky to be born in the U.S., that makes me automatically better than anyone else?

[drew]

You're goddamn right it does!


Fuck the flag burning shit. While I don't necessarily agree with burning it, it'd mean something if they didn't make:

Flag towels
Flag sheets
Flag bikinis
Flag plates
Flag cups
Flag coozies
Flag placemats
Flag hats
Flag shirts
Flag shoes
Flag stickers
Flag buttons
Flag bandanas
Flag condoms (no idea if it exists, but I'll go on a limb and say it does)


Seriously. You can't get all fucked off about someone burning a flag, which is NOT illegal, and falls under the first amendment, when you can buy any one of 100 different things with the flag printed on it that you just throw away when you're done with it anyway. You want to make burning the flag a "thing", then ban its presence on anything BUT a flag.

So in short, fuck Trump.

Happy fuckin new year

[speedpimp]

US Flag condoms. (http://www.globalprotection.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BKU9)
US Flag toilet paper. (https://www.amazon.com/America-Flag-Toilet-Paper-Pattern/product-reviews/B00Q4IIF22)

[neanderthal]

Good shit, if not pathetic.

What frightens/angers me the most with that, is there seems to be a general regret/flop on him, because he said he wasn't going to prosecute HRC.

Hey, dumbfucks, she was never indicted. After millions of wasted dollars and countless wasted hours/effort, they never found anything valid to file an actual indictment.

Add to that, they're so dense they can't seem to realize that the FBI/Comey "found 650k new emails" thing was 100% planned/orchestrated. They announce that the night before early voting starts, and then the night before the open election, say "there's nothing there, nothing to see here". What a coincidence!

Comey shouldn't have a fucking job (especially when he comes out a month later and says "yep, Russia fucked with the election". You twat.

#FuckTrump

But, ... the emails. The emails!

Those dumb fucks can't name a single thing that was named in those emails.
They can't tell you a single credible thing about Hillary that jives with what they say and think about her (here's Billi as an excellent example!) other than "those emails" or "she's untrustworthy" or some other completely contrived shit. And the sad thing is, just like Billie, they are utterly convinced, that there is something there, and yet they can't even name a single that and point to it conclusively and say "there, I hate her for that shit." Instead, they believe that she ran an underage sex ring out of a pizza store or some really weird shit. They can name Wikileaks but can't name a single thing from that treasure trove of wikileaks "dumps" that actually pins her on anything.

Fuckem. Fuckemall!!!

[Tom Servo]

Jill Stein should probably get an assist on the years of the GOP's smears on the Clinton family, too.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Fact is that Obama is the least transparent admin by blocking and denying freedom of information act. Hillary using her own server is precisely for the purpose of making thing even less transparent.

Hey, if you got nothing to hide, why not just follow the rules?

[Yw-slayer]

Fact is that Obama is the least transparent admin by blocking and denying freedom of information act. Hillary using her own server is precisely for the purpose of making thing even less transparent.

Hey, if you got nothing to hide, why not just follow the rules?

So you really think she had "something to hide", rather than it just being a mistake? LOL

Also:

http://metro.co.uk/2015/11/05/a-tory-mp-might-have-quoted-goebbels-in-defence-of-the-governments-surveillance-bill-5481457/

LOL

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think both Obama and Hillary made big mistakes by not being very transparent. They know very well why we have the freedom of information act and they purposely went around it. They are also proponents of mass surveillance. Their actions made me not want to trust them. We really shouldn't have to rely on wiki leak and the Russians for information that belongs to us. This circus can be so easily avoided has rules being followed.

Of course all of this didn't make me want to go Trump either. He's obviously more untrustworthy.

[neanderthal]

Fact is that Obama is the least transparent admin by blocking and denying freedom of information act. Hillary using her own server is precisely for the purpose of making thing even less transparent.

Hey, if you got nothing to hide, why not just follow the rules?

Perfect example.

There must be something there, that's why she used a private server. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance)

[neanderthal]

I think both Obama and Hillary made big mistakes by not being very transparent. They know very well why we have the freedom of information act and they know how to go around it. They are also proponents of mass surveillance. Their actions made me not want to trust them. We really shouldn't have to rely on wiki leak and the Russians for information that belongs to us. This circus can be so easily avoided has rules being followed.

Of course all of this didn't make me want to go Trump either. He's obviously more untrustworthy.

Dude. We have TRUMP for President because of people who think like you.

We've got the one YOU label as MORE UNTRUSTWORTHY because you couldn't trust Hillary.

Someone please post the "you played yourself" gif

[neanderthal]

https://youtu.be/lgw8vbEYoeo

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why should freedom of information act not be followed?

That's something I expect from trump, not Hillary and certainly not Obama.

And for the last time, I didn't vote for Trump.

[neanderthal]

And NOW WE HAVE TRUMP because of that "logic."

[neanderthal]

Joy Ann Reid after Trump won.

Now that I have told you what you won, Trump America, allow me to tell you what you've lost.

You've lost the morality card. No longer can the US go around lecturing the world about democracy, because, in our democracy, the person who got the most votes will not be president. Nor does the party that got the most votes control the House of Representatives. Again, we're required to accept this affront to democracy, because that's our system. But our acceptance doesn't make it any less democratic.

You have also lost the notion of an exceptional America. Because as it turns out, we're just another western nation falling into the ethno-national forces sweeping and swinging across Europe. We, as it turns out, are not so different after all.

You have also lost the right to moralize to Blue America about family values. We sincerely hope and pray that your daughters and your sisters and your wives and all women and girls are never disrespected the way that he has . When your sons and daughters ask you if little girls are as valuable as little girls or should emulate the values of the United States, we'll leave that to you to explain.

And lastly, you have lost the right to rattle on about immigrants. You are now the party of Donald Trump. You saw exactly who and what he was and you chose it. You're going to have to own that. If the incoming president makes you feel proud, I'm very happy for you, but please don't tell the people who are afraid that they have no right to be.

And my friends in the media who are rushing to normalize Trump, who are blindly calling on scared teachers and students to come together and accept what's happening while Donald Trump ushers in an emboldened KKK and will soon have a place in the White House: please remember that nothing has changed about Donald Trump. He is an unpopular person who's under criminal investigation, whose foundation was found to be a sham of self-dealing. And who is in unknown amounts of debt to unknown foreign entities in a way we have never known as a president. He's still the guy who has made racist misogynistic statements that have offended virtually every group in the US. He's still the guy who said this:


↓ Story continues below ↓

...automatically attracted to beautiful women, I just start kissing them, it's like a magnet. And when you're a star, they let you do it, you can do anything, you can grab them by the [ bleep ].

We owe it to the country to cover him with clear open eyes. This isn't about access or normalized homogenized politics, or the pageantry of succession. We need to cover the next President with the same cynicism that the current President was treated to. And with the same zeal and skepticism and doggedness that we expended on, oh, I don't know, Hillary's emails. Given how unprecedented what his happening is, including his veiled and not so veiled threats against the First Amendment -- maybe we need to cover him with more toughness and skepticism, and when we come back, we're going to start with what Donald Trump will, won't, can and can't do with Obamacare.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Have you thought about this, had they simply follow the rules and not give people the appearance of impropriety with Clinton foundation, the right would not be able to have anything against her. The so called 'logic' would not be applicable.

Now hopefully the right will eventually apply the same logic back on Trump.

We had 2 unpopular major candidates under criminal investigations. Those were our choices... Logic is futile.

[neanderthal]

Have YOU thought about this. You fell so hard for the thirty year smear campaign against her that you still can't really say anything about her to support your position except "she used a private server and must be hiding something because of it."

The entire premise of your position is based on nothing substantive, and you can't even recognise that.

Let me phrase that another way for clarity. Let's say they've been calling Hillary a hippopotamus for the the last 30 years. Instead of looking at a hippo, looking at her, making a comparison, and coming to a natural conclusion, you're saying "she's a hippo."

There are NO FACTS or EVIDENCE to support how you feel about her. You still haven't presented any. So I don't care much for your feelings about her because they are based on something that isn't there.

[The359]

I don't understand people rattling on about Trump losing the popular vote. This isn't the first time this has happened.

[neanderthal]

For the record, I can respect that you have strong feelings about her. We are all human. I CAN'T respect said feelings because they are based on "shitty science." By that I mean they lack facts and substance.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Another thing you need to consider is that elections are not held on Vulcan. For humans, feeling is an important part of the equation. Hillary simply failed to connect emotionally to enough voters that counted.

She couldn't even connect with the Bernie and bust folks, probably thought they were in a basket of crazies too...

Likewise, I don't feel any connection with her. I'm not about to vote in a Vulcan who can't follow simple rules.

Of course our current situation with a Ferengi prez isn't ideal either...

I didn't vote for either, so my hands are clean.

[neanderthal]

I don't understand people rattling on about Trump losing the popular vote. This isn't the first time this has happened.

I think it's mostly in response to the Trumpanzees insistence that he won by "a huuuuge margin" or however Trump categorised it.


I know I have used it what way.

[neanderthal]

Another thing you need to consider is that elections are not held on Vulcan. For humans, feeling is an important part of the equation. Hillary simply failed to connect emotionally to enough voters that counted.

She couldn't even connect with the Bernie and bust folks, probably thought they were in a basket of crazies too...

Likewise, I don't feel any connection with her. I'm not about to vote in a Vulcan who can't follow simple rules.

Of course our current situation with a Ferengi prez isn't ideal either...

There is a saying "cutting your nose off to spite your face."


Congratulations. Yours is that mentality.

We have a much worse person who's going to be President now, which you acknowledge, because you and your ilk couldn't scale the scale the gravity of their badness in real proportions.

[drew]

EMAILS!

[Tom Servo]

FWIW, I've worked within government constraints on IT. I've also worked with IT departments in large companies.

It is exceedingly common for execs to do things like, for instance, set up their own servers so they can use their device of choice. When I joined MySpace in 2006, which was part of NewsCorp's IT infrastructure and subject to all of its bureaucracy, the only mobile devices authorized to handle mail were Blackberries. Originally it was because it was the only one that could be remotely disabled and wiped, but when other devices supported that, they still had to wait to go through the NewsCorp IT approval process which could take years. Most of the execs had iPhones. A great many IT rules were broken to support those execs, because nobody wanted to carry around their iPhone and a Blackberry.

The fact of the matter is, there's no evidence that Clinton was attempting to hide anything by using a separate server. There is evidence that she wanted to be able to handle all of her email on a single device rather than have her personal and govt issued one. That is a far more likely reason why she, and secretaries of state before her, had their own servers.

[neanderthal]

FWIW, I've worked within government constraints on IT. I've also worked with IT departments in large companies.

It is exceedingly common for execs to do things like, for instance, set up their own servers so they can use their device of choice. When I joined MySpace in 2006, which was part of NewsCorp's IT infrastructure and subject to all of its bureaucracy, the only mobile devices authorized to handle mail were Blackberries. Originally it was because it was the only one that could be remotely disabled and wiped, but when other devices supported that, they still had to wait to go through the NewsCorp IT approval process which could take years. Most of the execs had iPhones. A great many IT rules were broken to support those execs, because nobody wanted to carry around their iPhone and a Blackberry.

The fact of the matter is, there's no evidence that Clinton was attempting to hide anything by using a separate server. There is evidence that she wanted to be able to handle all of her email on a single device rather than have her personal and govt issued one. That is a far more likely reason why she, and secretaries of state before her, had their own servers.

Can't like enough.

But she broke the rules. If she had simply stayed within the bounds of the rules Billi and his ilk would have voted for her. She shouldn't have broken the rules!!!" :rolleyes

[neanderthal]

EMAILS!

PRIVATE SERVER! Now we don't know what she was saying. What government secrets she sold to Iran in exchange for uranium!!!!

[drew]

Benghazi was an inside job she coordinated with Iraq and ISIS to orchestrate, which Obama paid for with $450M cash.

[Alan P]

Benghazi was an inside job she coordinated with Iraq and ISIS to orchestrate, which Obama paid for with $450M cash.

Dude! I was told by Davie down the pub that it was $350m Where did the extra $100m come from?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Can't like enough.

But she broke the rules. If she had simply stayed within the bounds of the rules Billi and his ilk would have voted for her. She shouldn't have broken the rules!!!" :rolleyes

They're not my rules. If you get caught breaking the rules, no use crying over it.

Hey, I ran thru a red light and I didn't cause any accidents! I did it out of convenience and didn't hurt anybody! Who has time to wait for red lights to turn green when there's no traffic anyway, right?

Well, if you ran a red light safely due to a matter of emergency, I'm okay with that. However, if you break the law base solely on the reason that it's convenient for you..., well sorry if I want to trust you less.

Had Obama and Hillary been more transparent under the freedom of info act, I'm certainly willing to overlook the server thing. Hey, if multiple state secs had wanted their own servers, why not just make it happen legally? You are the fucking boss, aren't you? Why do you have to break your own organizations rules? Oh you want to be able to control others, but just don't want others to control you? Or you afraid of mass surveillance? Or Russian hackers?

Just do things right and it'll make everyone's life easier. This stupid convenient server cost you the White House. Happy now?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ultimately, I hope people voted for somebody they really want, don't go for Hillary because of Trump and vise Versa. I have confidence that our govt can survive either one of them.... Even for 8 years.

If things really go badly and we end up with King Trump, the I'm glad we have a lot of guns in the US to give King Trump a big headache.

[Tom Servo]

They're not my rules. If you get caught breaking the rules, no use crying over it.

Hey, I ran thru a red light and I didn't cause any accidents! I did it out of convenience and didn't hurt anybody! Who has time to wait for red lights to turn green when there's no traffic anyway, right?

Well, if you ran a red light safely due to a matter of emergency, I'm okay with that. However, if you break the law base solely on the reason that it's convenient for you..., well sorry if I want to trust you less.

Had Obama and Hillary been more transparent under the freedom of info act, I'm certainly willing to overlook the server thing. Hey, if multiple state secs had wanted their own servers, why not just make it happen legally? You are the fucking boss, aren't you? Why do you have to break your own organizations rules? Oh you want to be able to control others, but just don't want others to control you? Or you afraid of mass surveillance? Or Russian hackers?

Just do things right and it'll make everyone's life easier. This stupid convenient server cost you the White House. Happy now?

False equivalency. She didn't break the law by using a private server. She broke IT policy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, I would not end up at jail for breaking company policy, however, I could still get fired.

So do you make it a policy to ignore policies out of convenience? She is the head, it shouldn't take an act of worst congress ever to change policies. Point is she should've changed it rather than ignoring it out of convenience.

[Tom Servo]

If I think they're stupid policies? Totally. It's against my work building's policy to take a bike up in any but the #1 elevator. I, and every building employee (security, front desk staff, operations) completely ignore this rule because it's stupid. Does that mean I'm a bad person or bad at my job? I don't think that it does. I just think it's a stupid policy and choose to ignore it. When there was an employee who cared about it, he continually warned me that my company could get fined every time I did it. My company told me I should ignore him.

It also clearly wasn't an important enough policy to get her or previous secretaries of state to get fired. It sounds like the server was rather well secured and posed little issue.

Also, I feel like I should go back to this. Anybody who thinks having a "private email server" will help you hide something knows absolutely nothing about now SMTP works. Emails hop. They go through multiple servers every time they're sent, and often times those servers keep copies of those emails, at least for long enough to try to resend them if there's a transient failure. At the bare minimum, the sending and receiving servers/users keep copies. Have you ever tried to delete an email you didn't mean to/regretted sending? Or call it back? It doesn't work, because email wasn't designed to work like that. The only effective way to "hide" what you're sending is to encrypt the email with a key that only you and the recipient have, in which case, there'd be no need for a private server. Email was never designed to be secure. That's why it's pretty easy to send someone an email where the from address is "your.mom@my.house". All you need is an open relay.

What she did wouldn't actually do the nefarious things she's being accused of doing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

And I'm also pretty sure the Clinton foundation is way more sqeaky clean than Trump charity. No sarcasm there. However, it does give people the impression of impropriety. Why not just avoid it?

If you are indeed eyeing the White House, it's better to not give your opposition anything to smear you with. These conveniences are not worth the trouble.

Anyway, not entirely sure how big of a role that server played, but as Obama said, she just wasn't as articulate as him in terms of connecting with voters. He should've ran a 3rd term I guess.

Lastly, NSA probably has all of Hillarys emails covertly duplicated. Wonder if FBI was working together with them at all. But anyway, had they at least follow the freedom of information act, we wouldn't be needing Putin to hack into our systems.

[neanderthal]

They're not my rules. If you get caught breaking the rules, no use crying over it.

Hey, I ran thru a red light and I didn't cause any accidents! I did it out of convenience and didn't hurt anybody! Who has time to wait for red lights to turn green when there's no traffic anyway, right?

Well, if you ran a red light safely due to a matter of emergency, I'm okay with that. However, if you break the law base solely on the reason that it's convenient for you..., well sorry if I want to trust you less.

Had Obama and Hillary been more transparent under the freedom of info act, I'm certainly willing to overlook the server thing. Hey, if multiple state secs had wanted their own servers, why not just make it happen legally? You are the fucking boss, aren't you? Why do you have to break your own organizations rules? Oh you want to be able to control others, but just don't want others to control you? Or you afraid of mass surveillance? Or Russian hackers?

Just do things right and it'll make everyone's life easier. This stupid convenient server cost you the White House. Happy now?

No. Idiots like you who still go on and on about emails and a server (smoke with no fire!) are the reason why Trump is soon to be in the White House. I TOLD YOU, right here, that conservatives would rally around whoever their process had selected.

You chose to go with your feewings. Your fucking feewings don't get to matter when there is a Supreme Court, a White House, an economic recovery at stake. Progress was being made with voting rights, transgender rights, employment rights, climate change, etc etc etc.

I'm going to continue to bash you over the head about your fucking feewings until Trump is no longer in the White House.

[Tom Servo]

If you are indeed eyeing the White House, it's better to not give your opposition anything to smear you with.

In all fairness considering who's going to be president in a few weeks, that apparently isn't really all *that* big of an issue.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, I think you are misdirecting your anger. Assuming Hillary won by 3million votes, my 3million and 1vote still won't change the outcome because I don't live in one of those battle ground states. Anyway, if it can make you feel better to bash me, by all means bash me. Glad I can help. :)

[neanderthal]

I'm not angry. What makes you think i'm angry.

I'm merely reminding you what you and your ilk did. I'm trying to impart to you that elections are for things greater than your feelings; like the good of the country. Your, and your fellow Never Hillary's needless/ ceaseless harranguing of Hillary for nothing more than some trumped up bullshit, which you still can't substantiate to this day, is why we have Trump.

[neanderthal]

In all fairness considering who's going to be president in a few weeks, that apparently isn't really all *that* big of an issue.

But the EMAILS! Grabbing women by the pussy and just kissing them whether they like it or not, not revealing your taxes, or disregarding the emoluments clause, that doesn't matter as much as the emails.

On a private server. My word!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, may I remind you that not only did I not vote for Trump, and even if I did vote Hillary, election outcome still wouldn't change. So I might as well vote my conscience. So no matter how you remind me, there's just nothing I can do to help Hillary.

I don't want either one of them as my president, but I'm willing to accept either one of them as my president should they become one.

Lastly, my vote is mine, I really don't think I need you to tell me how to vote. I do believe you're over stepping on my right.

[neanderthal]

I'm reminding you that voting your conscience is what brought us Trump. You and all the other never Hillary's who's feelings were more important than the country. Congratulations. Own it.

[neanderthal]

It's your right.
Just don't try and justify your hate of Hillary with that bullshit you continue to spew. Then try to act righteous about it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, like I said, if this can make you feel better, then I'm cool with it.

However, since you claim you're not angry about it and are a very logical guy, then you have to accept the reality that Trump won without Billi's help. I don't work for Putin you know? Holding on to such fantasy won't do anybody any good.

My dislike for both candidates made me not vote for them. I'm not going to all of a sudden love one of them because the other one talked about grabbing pussies.

I don't want to make it my personal policy to vote for somebody because I hate the other one more. Bar needs to be set higher in the future so that we can have 2 of greater good for us to pick from.

[Freude am Fahren]

I don't know if we've asked this yet, but if you lived in FL, NC, OH, or some other state that determined the election, would you still have thrown your vote away, or voted for Hillary to prevent Trump?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I really thought 3rd party votes would be record high this time, but I guess most still end up with the 2 major parties. I kinda doubt we have any 3rd partiers here on this forum...,that's probably why Neanderthal latches onto me?

Anyway, my opinion is that trump only won those states because they hated Hillary more and based on polls, everyone thought Hillary will win... So my guess is that more 3rd party votes were lost because angry voters voted for Trump in protest.

[Freude am Fahren]

...so yes?

[drew]

3rd party votes record high, of what, 5% max. They've NEVER amounted to shit.

As mentioned before, any vote not for Hillary (3rd party), was a vote for Trump.

Congrats.

[Tom Servo]

I tend to agree with Dan Savage when it comes to third parties. While I recognize there are some Green and Libertarian candidates in lower offices, there still aren't many, and the way to get to the white house is not to show up every four years with a "c'mon, you don't like those people, why not run with this unknown?!?" There are things I like about some of the other parties, but you don't just barely scratch the surface of American politics and then expect to start competing in the finals. Get some more mayors, governors, state legislators, and then federal legislators. Work your way up.

Neither Green or Libertarian parties have done that, yet they insist on barging in on the presidential election and then lose their shit when the whole process isn't upended to cater to them.

The two parties that are now running this place didn't get there because some shadowy cabal put them there. Earn that shit, and quit moaning in the meantime.

That said, I also don't particularly have a huge problem with "playing politics". Politics is a profession, like any other. My wife is a program manager and has spent expensive time and gone to many classes learning how to craft her language to get the performance she wants out of the people she's managing. That doesn't make her dishonest or shady, it makes her good at her chosen profession. The third party candidates rarely seem to have any idea how to actually be part of a profession where you have to wrangle and manage alliances amongst hundreds of people who do know how to play that game. It's an important skill, but one this country seems to be all too quick to admonish.

[MR2 Fan]

It's scary when it comes down to:

Trump: "Vote for me, I'm not her"
Hillary: "Vote for me, I'm not him"
3rd Party Candidate: "Vote for me, I'm not them"

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump is essentially a 3rd party candidate who hijacked a major party.

Likewise Bernie Sanders. It's just that I still believed his bid was side tracked by the democratic establishment.

I still believe America is ready for a fresh 3rd party candidate. Current political establishment is just too corrupt.

From a outside perspective, there's really not much difference between W and Obama, other than Obama looks cooler and not as dumb as W. Foreign policy wise, it's pretty much as if they are the same admin while we're bickering fiercely on the inside....

[Tom Servo]

Not to sound too much like a fundamentalist capitalist, but if America was ready for a fresh third party candidate, we would have voted for one. For all the "too corrupt" talk we have, our country is NOWHERE near as corrupt as other governments were before everyone was truly ready to throw all the bums out. When all is said and done, the people that have run this country have done a reasonably good job up until this point. There've been some serious missteps, but the country itself has been reasonably stable. Prosperous, even. And while it hasn't extended to everyone, we don't have nearly the number of people in desperate poverty that some other large industrial nations have (I'm looking at you, India).

[FaultyMario]

Trump is essentially a 3rd party candidate who hijacked a major party.

No, he is not, but thanks for playing. BTW, You lost.

[MR2 Fan]

Not to sound too much like a fundamentalist capitalist, but if America was ready for a fresh third party candidate, we would have voted for one. For all the "too corrupt" talk we have, our country is NOWHERE near as corrupt as other governments were before everyone was truly ready to throw all the bums out. When all is said and done, the people that have run this country have done a reasonably good job up until this point. There've been some serious missteps, but the country itself has been reasonably stable. Prosperous, even. And while it hasn't extended to everyone, we don't have nearly the number of people in desperate poverty that some other large industrial nations have (I'm looking at you, India).

The problem is, how would this third party candidate get enough of play on the media? The media made Trump the winner IMO, and unless you can somehow break into that stranglehold with publicity, I don't think a third party candidate can do it.

[Tom Servo]

That's why I think it has to be something that grows over time. I don't think you can or even necessarily should be able to show up with a third party and expect to get equal airtime. I think if Jill Stein's ideas were that great (disclaimer: I think she had her heart in the right place but a lot of misguided ideas and absolutely no ability to be the diplomat one should be as president) she would have gotten that airtime. The media will show whatever they think will sell advertising. If you're third party but you show up with ideas that resonate with most of America, they're sure as shit going to show it. In the meantime, I think most people who go third party would fully qualify to go with one of the main two parties, only they know they can't win the nomination. Jill Stein could easily have been in the democratic primary, Gary Johnson could easily have been on the republican ticket like a fellow libertarian, Rand Paul. They both knew they didn't stand a chance, so they went third party instead.

I realize I'm sounding like a fundamentalist capitalist, but I think if you show up with a message that the American public wants to hear, the media will be more than happy to share that with you. I don't think Jill Stein or Gary Johnson did that.

[drew]

Not to sound too much like a fundamentalist capitalist, but if America was ready for a fresh third party candidate, we would have voted for one. For all the "too corrupt" talk we have, our country is NOWHERE near as corrupt as other governments were before everyone was truly ready to throw all the bums out.

You say that now, as the republicans voted to dismantle the ethics committee in the middle of the night.

Seriously, it's beyond obvious at this point (if it wasn't 100% obvious 2 months ago).

[mk]

I think you are way too president centric.

Start being more independent senator centric.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think if you show up with a message that the American public wants to hear, the media will be more than happy to share that with you. I don't think Jill Stein or Gary Johnson did that.

Bernie Sanders showed up with a message that the public wants to hear, but the media blocked him presumably under the instructions of the 'establishment'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3EBzV5SpuY

You can't count on the media nowadays. They're only interested in gaffes... such as the Aleppo incident with Johnson or perhaps sensational things that might bring you down. The media thought that they're bringing down Trump, but instead ended up giving him free coverage. Negative publicity is still better than no publicity. Trump also has his own media, his tweeter account. He also doesn't hold press conferences so reporters can't ask him any questions that'd make him look dumb.

Do you seriously believe Trump is more qualified than the other two 3rd party candidates? Well, Johnson does look like he has smoked one too many marijuana, but in terms of qualifications, Trump had zero experience in politics.

What Trump does have is his brand. At least he built himself a rich image... and Americans are still mostly capitalisic so they fell for him. Ross Perot had a similar image and almost succeeded in dethroning the 2 major parties. Rules were changed afterwards to make sure that won't ever happen again... so Trump had to jack the RNC in order to have a chance. Sanders also knew that he has to run on the democratic ticket in order to have a shot.

Anyway, my point is that media will not be happy to share any of your messages if you're not preapproved by the establishment. You need a twitter account or whatever future media of choice. Just say something great and short and without details and without any follow up questions. But of course, you need to be a seemingly self-made billionaire.

Hope Elon Musk will run someday..., but too bad he was not born in the US! :p

[MR2 Fan]

Hope Elon Musk will run someday..., but too bad he was not born in the US! :p

That didn't stop Ted Cruz from running

[drew]

Obama was president for 8 years!

[21Kid]

That said, I also don't particularly have a huge problem with "playing politics". Politics is a profession, like any other. My wife is a program manager and has spent expensive time and gone to many classes learning how to craft her language to get the performance she wants out of the people she's managing. That doesn't make her dishonest or shady, it makes her good at her chosen profession. The third party candidates rarely seem to have any idea how to actually be part of a profession where you have to wrangle and manage alliances amongst hundreds of people who do know how to play that game. It's an important skill, but one this country seems to be all too quick to admonish.Didn't seem to effect Trump. In fact wasn't that part of his allure? That he wasn't part of 'the system'?

[Tom Servo]

I dunno. I think he's better at playing politics than most people. He's certainly spent his fair share of time trying to get politicians to do things that will help with his business. He's good enough to convince a large portion of America that he isn't good at it.

It remains to be seen if he's good enough to be an effective president.

[21Kid]

fair point

[Crazed_Insanity]

He is obviously good enough at manipulating people into doing what he wants them to do... and destroying those in his path.

Although he might not have been self made, but it does take some skill and discipline to even maintain his fame and fortune. Most folks would squander all of their lotto winnings... many instant celebrities also cannot handle their new found fame and fortune. So you have to give Trump credit for his abilities at managing his fame and fortune for so long.

Can he translate his skills onto the political scenes though? If yes, then he'll probably get 4 more years. If not, I'm sure voters will quickly turn back to the democratic party..., hopefully the democratic party will by then learn their lessons and be able to maintain power.

Probably just wishful thinking...

[21Kid]

Whoops. I was Billi-rolled.

Accidentally clicked when Billi was the only new post.

[MR2 Fan]

Whoops. I was Billi-rolled.

Accidentally clicked when Billi was the only new post.


Never gonna give Jesus up....never gonna let The System© down

[21Kid]

:lol:

[neanderthal]

You say that now, as the republicans voted to dismantle the ethics committee in the middle of the night.

Seriously, it's beyond obvious at this point (if it wasn't 100% obvious 2 months ago).

And a furious tweetstorm and phone storm from the plebs had them changing it. Not enough, but altering it.

And of course Trump took credit for the change, even though he had nothing to do with it, AND THE MEDIA DIDN'T CORRECT HIM OR CALL HIM OUT!!!!

I really hate calling out the media as the bogeyman but they've really done us in in this last election cycle. Hard to blame them though.

[Tom Servo]

How to deal with someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, like, say, PEOTUS.

http://imgur.com/gallery/1rMMu

[Tom Servo]

Jello Biafra's take.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/jello-biafra-on-how-to-resist-trump-why-punk-still-matters-w458690

[FaultyMario]

I'm convinced the best thing Obama can do is play reverse Trump the next few years.

He's got huge credibility and knows ten times more than Trump will ever learn from his advisers. And although it's unusual for an ex president to try to start in the spotlight, Mr. Trump is a publicabomination.

[21Kid]

This Republican congresswoman's Twitter poll on Obamacare didn't go very well for her

https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/dbKvZIcIRwEl36zkxcE0bw--/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3E9NzU7dz02NDA7c209MTtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://globalfinance.zenfs.com/images/US_AFTP_CNBC_E2H_LIVE/104199565-GettyImages-578543994.1910x1000_original.jpg

[novicius]

Neo-Nazis couldn't rig the vote this time? :lol:

[Godson]

#eggonface

Interesting enough for me, I am willing to bet the average number of users who are in the Twitter verse are more left leaning than right.

But them number aren't slight.

[drew]

They've had a hardon to repeal it since it was created. They've also had 6-7 years to at least come up with something in the way of a plan, or even a fucking idea, which they have neither.

But don't let that logic gate stand in the way.

This seriously fucks me off.

[balki]

the did original Great Wall keep the Mongolians out? (actual question, Ninja Warrior warped-wall type jokes to follow later)

[tigeraid]

the did original Great Wall keep the Mongolians out? (actual question, Ninja Warrior warped-wall type jokes to follow later)


Several smaller walls were being built as early as 7th century BC, and they were eventually strung together as The Great Wall. It was intended to keep out various tribes from the Steppe, Mongols among them.

Not specifically for Genghis Khan though, as is commonly botched--wrong era entirely.

[drew]

2139

[MR2 Fan]

It's so sad that all of those Chinese people are completely unable to get from one side of the country to the other, because of the Great Wall, you'd think they'd find a way to get over it in the past several hundred years :rolleyes:

[Crazed_Insanity]

The Great Wall is the only barrier that's keeping the world safe dude!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avF6GHyyk5c

[Crazed_Insanity]

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2015/08/05/political-beliefs-genetic/

Wow, this is a pretty old blog post but what it's saying is kinda surprising to me. Political ideologies are as much as 65% influenced by genes rather than environment!

No wonder rational debates don't work very well...

[Yw-slayer]

With Jason Bourne as the lead character, wtf.

[JoshInKC]

I wouldn't put a ton of stock into that Discover piece. I am not specialized in bioanth, let alone genetic anthropology, so take my opinion with a grain of salt - but I would definitely want a large-scale replication before I put much if any confidence in that study. Aside from the inherent issues with things like people being able to change their political views in their lifetimes, DRD4 being cited is something to be wary of. It regulates dopamine levels in response to risk-taking behaviors. Subsequently, geneticists tend to try to tie it to almost any behavioral pattern. Seriously, it ends up being the fallback when they can't find a clear correlation to anything else.

[Crazed_Insanity]

They can only study identical twins to see the effects of nature vs nurture. As time goes on, surely sample size will increase.

Assuming the finding is correct, to put things into perspective, alcoholism only has a 50% heritability. Political belief for males somehow ended up at 65%!!! For girls, genes play a much smaller role... Guess girls are smarter and less set in their ways...

So some poor white folks may be forced into voting for Trump by their genes even though liberal policies might be beneficial to them... Such as obamacare!

[MR2 Fan]

I'm on twitter too often, I'm seriously considering setting up a dummy account to troll all of these idiot trump supporters.

[FaultyMario]

Our political system is seriously cracking.

Low price of oil, Trump's desire to insource manufacturing jobs (and their low wages, i s'ppose), and the historical inability of the Mexican state to tax anyone except independent professionals (i.e. our dying middle class) have cornered the government into outrageous consumer taxes.

Hilarity is ensuing. Right now.

[Tom Servo]

Buzzfeed's posted the dossier compiled by someone who claims to be a former British Intelligence official. Beyond the always entertaining golden showers allegation, it also alleges that the Trump campaign brought up the whole NATO thing to help Putin with his Ukrainian ambitions in exchange for Russia leaking Clinton emails, and that Trump stands to get a 19% stake in Rosneft, the government-controlled Russian oil company, if he lifts sanctions on Russia.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/these-reports-allege-trump-has-deep-ties-to-russia?utm_term=.iapzpj9opD#.ksDVABweA0

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wait, unverified and contains errors? Shouldn't we classify that as fake news? Do we really need more of that?

Even if true, how would a cozier relationship with Russia be a total bad thing? Especially during these terror days...

If we had a warmer relationship with russia earlier, Syrian war probably be a lot shorter and there would be a lot less refugees? Snowden also would have no place to hide in Russia...

It'd be really funny to someday see prez Trump the one pardoning Snowden..., but then again maybe not.

[neanderthal]

Um, you're talking about the guy who ran his campaign on "building a wall, and have Mexico pay for it" who has now retreated from that, and you expect people to verify what they've dug up about him?

I expect a damn wall...

By the way, it's laughable the people who voted for a reality tv personality saying that celebrities aren't fit to comment on politics, vis a vis Meryl Streep's speech.

[Tom Servo]

Wait, unverified and contains errors? Shouldn't we classify that as fake news? Do we really need more of that?

Even if true, how would a cozier relationship with Russia be a total bad thing? Especially during these terror days...

If we had a warmer relationship with russia earlier, Syrian war probably be a lot shorter and there would be a lot less refugees? Snowden also would have no place to hide in Russia...

It'd be really funny to someday see prez Trump the one pardoning Snowden..., but then again maybe not.

I'd say no, we shouldn't classify it as fake news, if only because at least the article is saying that it should be taken with a grain of salt. Most news organizations apparently had a copy of this, only Buzzfeed put it out for people to read. CNN had it but said they weren't going to release the entire thing until they'd done more work verifying it. If this came out of a fake news site, they would present it as straight up fact. In fact, I'm assuming left-leaning fake news sites are doing just that.

Buzzfeed presumably released it because it apparently was at least trusted enough that the US intelligence community felt it necessary to notify Obama and Trump about it in intelligence briefings, though I believe they had a summarized thing saying that Russia had "personal and financial information" on Trump that could be used as blackmail. That's what CNN originally broke the story with. On the byline for that was Bernstein, one of the two that broke Watergate.

A "cozier relationship with Russia" wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. The Russian people are not bad people. This isn't a cozy relationship between countries, and Putin is a bad person.

[Tom Servo]

Trump went to Twitter to proclaim, in all caps, "FAKE NEWS! THIS IS A POLITICAL WITCH HUNT" (or something to that effect, I'm too lazy to look up the exact wording). I find it hard to have a lot of sympathy about a possible witch hunt for the guy who kept leading people in "lock her up" chants.

[Freude am Fahren]

Watersportsgate


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw5pRSbc6Iw&ab_channel=JOE_co_uk

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, it'd be nice if this report came out right before election too. Now, it's too little too late imho.

Dissenting Americans and their possible illegit prez? You don't think that's a threat to national security?

This is as if prez elect Clinton sees wikileak come out with another batch of emails... Time to move on... Or come up with something definitive to bring somebody down.

[Tom Servo]

Wait. Are you saying that unless there was a solid strategic reason, people shouldn't report things critical of the incoming president? I mean...that's what it sounds like.

[Rare White Ape]

Guys...

Guys...

It was a setup by 4chan. Not that I can verify this myself as I am just sharing the news so that you can make up your own minds about it, but as the Buzzfeed news editor wrote, this is how they see the job of reporters in 2017.

http://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15977207_1445624005450354_3491938919583536015_n.jp g?oh=d02a68d544394c6f6c6b706861906a77&oe=58DB8846

[Tom Servo]

That one falls apart at the John McCain step, Comey already had the report.

[Cam]

It's all part of the little green mens' master plan!

[neanderthal]

Farewell to our greatest President ever, Barack Hussein Obama. Your intelligence, humaneness, and eloquence will be sorely missed.

[drew]

Get ready for the polar opposite, of all points.

Fucking hell.

[FaultyMario]

Again Mo', I am not alone (http://www.cornelwest.com/) in thinking that OGPE should have made a bigger effort to redirect democracy away from big money (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/barack-obama-legacy-presidency).

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15965036_10100907449715296_5148315725289551581_n.j pg?oh=e19fdbbb90f821c8232cb45ca77f1f87&oe=58E14978

[Sad, little man]

I love how the fact that exactly the same insane cultural and media environment that got Trump elected now means that it's totally irrelevant whether these allegations are true or not. Somebody said them, and that's all that matters. Trump is now known as the president who has prostitutes pee for him, regardless of whether or not he did that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wait. Are you saying that unless there was a solid strategic reason, people shouldn't report things critical of the incoming president? I mean...that's what it sounds like.

I wouldn't want to see another batch of emails leaked and FBI telling me it's thinking about prosecuting/impeaching president clinton for example. If you're going to remove the president elect, let me know when you are god damn ready to do so. Enough of these smearing campaigns.

Enough is enough. Time to move on.

[MR2 Fan]

Farewell to our greatest President ever, Barack Hussein Obama. Your intelligence, humaneness, and eloquence will be sorely missed.

I'd put him in the top 5 maybe, though it is always difficult to do direct comparisons between Presidents.

[Kchrpm]

I look forward to him being the second best African American president.

[FaultyMario]

:up:

[Tom Servo]

I wouldn't want to see another batch of emails leaked and FBI telling me it's thinking about prosecuting/impeaching president clinton for example. If you're going to remove the president elect, let me know when you are god damn ready to do so. Enough of these smearing campaigns.

Enough is enough. Time to move one.


So that is what you're saying, then.

[21Kid]

Does anyone ever really know what he's saying?

Including Billi.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://media.giphy.com/media/26DOv0UKKzf2FPGKY/source.gif

[Freude am Fahren]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4xVGOegQxqe9za4E/giphy.gif

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's strange, I re-edited to fix the typo of 'one' to 'on' at 10:10am, how are you able to still quote my typo at 11:03am?

Anyway, other than the typo, yeah, I'm just sick of these smear campaigns... The right was just constantly looking for the smoking gun emails to put crooked hillary away, but couldn't find any... and the left just constantly looking for ways to put away the sleazy, selfish, hateful, racist trump, but couldn't find anything legally binding.

One of them emerged as a winner. Just live with it for 4 years. Putin Trump bromance can't last forever given their selfish natures. In the mean time, let's enjoy the friendly relations between the 2 countries.

Nothing is more important for our national security than our own unity. Putin has certainly done a good number on us... even post election.

If this continues, obviously America won't be very great again.

I guess you guys will be happy and Putin will also be very happy.

[MR2 Fan]

Nothing is more important for our national security than our own unity. Putin has certainly done a good number on us... even post election.

If this continues, obviously America won't be very great again.

I guess you guys will be happy and Putin will also be very happy.

So this is playing out like Captain America's Civil War, with Putin helping to pit us against ourselves?

Clever

[Tom Servo]

I don't know that I could possibly disagree more with that authoritarian world view. I didn't subscribe to "you're either with us or against us" when Bush said it and I don't now.

[balki]

So this is playing out like Captain America's Civil War, with Putin helping to pit us against ourselves?
if spidey shows up it might be worth it

[Crazed_Insanity]

I used to think it's the 'establishment' that created this political polarization so that the american people can stay focus on bickering amongst ourselves and not notice what the US government is really doing.

However, now it is beginning to look like perhaps other nations are helping add fuel to fire to destabilize the US too.

It used to be us who install dictators who are friendly to us in foreign nations around the world, but now it's beginning to look like we are finally getting a taste of our own similar medicine... Putin installing Trump here in the US in the most clandestine way possible..., but anyway, it's all unverifiable and contains errors. Once we have something verifiable without any errors, then perhaps we can do something. Until then it doesn't really benefit this country to continue to undermine our president-elect... because in the end, the biggest benefactor may still be Putin. I'm sure Putin would love to see a weakened and fragmented USA for as long as possible.

This report should've surface prior to the election to help offset the stupid email crap.

Otherwise it should've continued to stay under the radar while investigation continues... and deliver a surprising knockout punch with something verifiable.

Right now it gave Trump a chance to knock out Buzzfeed and CNN as fake news sites... So everyone is throwing shit at each other and nobody looks good while absolutely nothing constructive came out of this shit fight...

But it does help making america look like shit again. If you absolutely hate making america great again, I guess that's the only silverlining.

[Tom Servo]

The big thing I have a problem with is that you'd be okay with this coming out prior to the election, but not now. There's two ways I can take this:

1) You believe there's something actionable here, but believe that it's no longer effective and ultimately self-defeating.

2) You believe that it's a manufactured smear campaign, but think that'd be okay to sway an election.

If you believe that it's actionable, then it's *REALLY IMPORTANT* that we know that our president is potentially compromised. We may not be able to prevent him from being president, but it allows the population to put pressure on the lawmakers he needs to get things done to keep in mind that he may be less concerned with our best interests than he is in his own or Putin's.

If you believe it's a smear campaign, then it sounds like you're okay with people just making shit up to sway voters.

Am I misinterpreting this? Because they both sound really bad to me.

EDIT: For the record, my stance is that I lean towards it being not a smear campaign. I base that almost entirely on the names involved (Bernstein, McCain, the fact that this was enough for briefings for both POTUS and PEOTUS as well as other top level governmental officials). I also base it on my understanding of the term "unverified", meaning that the source may be trusted but that nobody else has added a secondary verification of the claims. I understand that my interpretation is far from perfect, but it's the best one I have. Given that I don't think it's just a smear campaign, I think it's perfectly fine that it comes out whenever it comes out.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If they both sound bad, then why both trying to interpret anything? It's pointless if you've already concluded whatever Billi says is just bad.

Turn it around dude. What do you hope to accomplish with this unverifiable report?

Enlighten me with something that can actually sound good. Enough of Billi, more Tom please.

Why did you put up that buzzfeed link? What positive outcome are you trying to achieve? What kind of good are Buzzfeed and CNN trying to accomplish with that half ass report?

I think you can safely remove Billi out of equation and still nothing good can come out of this fiasco. Help me see what good can come out of this whole ordeal please?

[Tom Servo]

If they both sound bad, then why both trying to interpret anything?

What do you hope to accomplish with this unverifiable report?

Enlighten me with something that can actually sound good. Enough of Billi, more Tom please.

Why did you put up that buzzfeed link? What positive outcome are you trying to achieve?

I edited the previous post, but lemme reiterate.

They both sound bad because as as far as I can tell you're limiting yourself to two outcomes. You're open to the possibility that this may be real and actionable, but if it is, then it's really not worth looking into unless it's enough to immediately impeach Trump. I disagree. If it's real and actionable, it may still not be enough to impeach him and obviously is too late to stop people from voting for him, but it is enough to inform people who will be acting on his policies to be aware of why he is doing things the way he is. Much like a car salesman. I don't necessarily think he should be arrested, but it sure helps me if I know that he gets a percentage of any extra profit he may get as part of the sale, so I know now just how much I can trust him when he says that I'm getting a great deal. If there is evidence that Trump may have reason to be acting in his own self-interest vs. that of the country, I think we deserve to know that. My understanding of the "unverified" means that this is a first hand account and hasn't had subsequent verification. I am basing my opinion on how likely it is that it's got legs on who is reporting on it and on the reaction of the intelligence community.

Keep in mind this is the same intelligence community that Trump has bashed about saying that Russia played a role in the election via hacking, then promptly said that he *DOES* think that Russia played a role via hacking during his press conference today.

I wanted to post it because it was newsworthy. I also assume that getting it out there will get further investigation into it, which will help determine how much of it, if any, is true.

[neanderthal]

I love how the fact that exactly the same insane cultural and media environment that got Trump elected now means that it's totally irrelevant whether these allegations are true or not. Somebody said them, and that's all that matters. Trump is now known as the president who has prostitutes pee for him, regardless of whether or not he did that.

Ain't he the goatfucker?


I wouldn't want to see another batch of emails leaked and FBI telling me it's thinking about prosecuting/impeaching president clinton for example. If you're going to remove the president elect, let me know when you are god damn ready to do so. Enough of these smearing campaigns.

Enough is enough. Time to move on.

That is a very naive opinion. Didn't Cain answer "I am not my brothers keeper" when questioned where is Abel? Was it not out of jealousy. That's right at the beginning of time according to you, right? In Genesis. Back then you already had the differences between people culminating in murder and you're whining about a smear campaign?

More on this later.


I'd put him in the top 5 maybe, though it is always difficult to do direct comparisons between Presidents.

Under ordinary circumstances I might agree with you, but NO PRESIDENT has faced such unmitigated and unwarranted hatred, bigotry, obstructionism and FLAT OUT TREASON in his term and had such a calm steady hand while doing so. Errbody else at least had a semblance of a functioning Congress.
Nevermind the deep fried poop of an economy that he inherited as well. President Obama has faced unprecedented opposition and sailed through it undaunted.


That's strange, I re-edited to fix the typo of 'one' to 'on' at 10:10am, how are you able to still quote my typo at 11:03am?

Anyway, other than the typo, yeah, I'm just sick of these smear campaigns... The right was just constantly looking for the smoking gun emails to put crooked hillary away, but couldn't find any... and the left just constantly looking for ways to put away the sleazy, selfish, hateful, racist trump, but couldn't find anything legally binding.

One of them emerged as a winner. Just live with it for 4 years. Putin Trump bromance can't last forever given their selfish natures. In the mean time, let's enjoy the friendly relations between the 2 countries.

Nothing is more important for our national security than our own unity. Putin has certainly done a good number on us... even post election.

If this continues, obviously America won't be very great again.

I guess you guys will be happy and Putin will also be very happy.

Motherfucker you fell HOOK, LINE, AND SINKER for that shit and you boldly proclaimed your fervent distrust of Hillary here many times and I tried, Lord knows I tried to get you to see that there was precious little substance to what you were saying but you were adamant!

By the way, there is already a ton of shit that's on Trump (nepotism, corruption, emoluments clause, no taxes released ergo what is he hiding, double dipping during his campaign, fraudulent use of his charity, cronyism, etc etc etc. Have you been paying attention? There is enough there in my opinion, to completely disqualify him for the office, but saps like you keep sucking up the salacious shit and leaving the meat on the bone. Then you complain that you're only fed gravy.
The media is complicit as well but the news is out there. The outcry just isn't there because of machinations and people busy defending their third party votes rather than concentrating on the shenanigans at play. Oops, did I implicate you there. I meant to.


I don't know that I could possibly disagree more with that authoritarian world view. I didn't subscribe to "you're either with us or against us" when Bush said it and I don't now.

His world, I asume you're responding to Billi here, is quite black and white, with no greys or in betweens and even less space for nuance.


The big thing I have a problem with is that you'd be okay with this coming out prior to the election, but not now. There's two ways I can take this:

1) You believe there's something actionable here, but believe that it's no longer effective and ultimately self-defeating.

2) You believe that it's a manufactured smear campaign, but think that'd be okay to sway an election.

If you believe that it's actionable, then it's *REALLY IMPORTANT* that we know that our president is potentially compromised. We may not be able to prevent him from being president, but it allows the population to put pressure on the lawmakers he needs to get things done to keep in mind that he may be less concerned with our best interests than he is in his own or Putin's.

If you believe it's a smear campaign, then it sounds like you're okay with people just making shit up to sway voters.

Am I misinterpreting this? Because they both sound really bad to me.

EDIT: For the record, my stance is that I lean towards it being not a smear campaign. I base that almost entirely on the names involved (Bernstein, McCain, the fact that this was enough for briefings for both POTUS and PEOTUS as well as other top level governmental officials). I also base it on my understanding of the term "unverified", meaning that the source may be trusted but that nobody else has added a secondary verification of the claims. I understand that my interpretation is far from perfect, but it's the best one I have. Given that I don't think it's just a smear campaign, I think it's perfectly fine that it comes out whenever it comes out.

Quoted for sheer fucking common sense. Carry on, as you were.


If they both sound bad, then why both trying to interpret anything? It's pointless if you've already concluded whatever Billi says is just bad.

Turn it around dude. What do you hope to accomplish with this unverifiable report?

Enlighten me with something that can actually sound good. Enough of Billi, more Tom please.

Why did you put up that buzzfeed link? What positive outcome are you trying to achieve? What kind of good are Buzzfeed and CNN trying to accomplish with that half ass report?

I think you can safely remove Billi out of equation and still nothing good can come out of this fiasco. Help me see what good can come out of this whole ordeal please?

You keep falling for the bullshit on Hillary and applying a higher standard of merit for anything against Trump. Yet you STILL can't tell us what was in her emails that was so disturbing. Do you understand the dichotomy at play here.
I was going to say dichotomy at work, but that would imply a working functioning medulla oblangata, rather than one at play, which seems to be the case here.


I edited the previous post, but lemme reiterate.

They both sound bad because as as far as I can tell you're limiting yourself to two outcomes. You're open to the possibility that this may be real and actionable, but if it is, then it's really not worth looking into unless it's enough to immediately impeach Trump. I disagree. If it's real and actionable, it may still not be enough to impeach him and obviously is too late to stop people from voting for him, but it is enough to inform people who will be acting on his policies to be aware of why he is doing things the way he is. Much like a car salesman. I don't necessarily think he should be arrested, but it sure helps me if I know that he gets a percentage of any extra profit he may get as part of the sale, so I know now just how much I can trust him when he says that I'm getting a great deal. If there is evidence that Trump may have reason to be acting in his own self-interest vs. that of the country, I think we deserve to know that. My understanding of the "unverified" means that this is a first hand account and hasn't had subsequent verification. I am basing my opinion on how likely it is that it's got legs on who is reporting on it and on the reaction of the intelligence community.

Keep in mind this is the same intelligence community that Trump has bashed about saying that Russia played a role in the election via hacking, then promptly said that he *DOES* think that Russia played a role via hacking during his press conference today.

I wanted to post it because it was newsworthy. I also assume that getting it out there will get further investigation into it, which will help determine how much of it, if any, is true.

Ain't he (Trump) the same dude who said he loved wikileaks prior to the election too? And now...

[G'day Mate]

So "fake news" seems to now be the catch-cry of the founder of the birther movement. Is that irony Alanis?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Swervo, It is a given that I don't trust either Hillary or trump.

Yet, I don't need anymore emails that can't lock her up nor do I need anymore reports that can't lock him up.

Go ahead and investigate away, but is it really necessary to announce to the world? Hey, I have no proof yet but I have reasons to believe that your president is a crook like a car salesman?

Is that even really news, let alone worthy.

Either have something that can bring him down or just cross your fingers that he will make America great again.... Dividing up the nation poses more threat to our security.

[neanderthal]

Yeah, hes the one threatening to make a list of Muslims and build a wall.

No one here is dividing anything. Except you with attention to things that really matter.

[FaultyMario]

Ok. The wall.

If it's unfeasible, unpractical and a violation of a dozen of treaties and commerce agreements, why does Trump insist on it?

Is he yelling wolf or is he genuinely daft?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Good car salesmen rarely are genuinely daft.

[Tom Servo]

Swervo, It is a given that I don't trust either Hillary or trump.

Yet, I don't need anymore emails that can't lock her up nor do I need anymore reports that can't lock him up.

Go ahead and investigate away, but is it really necessary to announce to the world? Hey, I have no proof yet but I have reasons to believe that your president is a crook like a car salesman?

Is that even really news, let alone worthy.

Either have something that can bring him down or just cross your fingers that he will make America great again.... Dividing up the nation poses more threat to our security.

The press is often referred to as the fourth estate. It is the check and balance when the other three fall out of whack. Again, I base this on the trust I have for people like Carl Bernstein. I do not believe that he would report on this if he didn't believe it was true. I realize this is imperfect, but I don't have a better judgment call.

From what I understand, it is verified that this is intelligence gathered by a former MI6 agent who now runs a private firm. The BBC are reporting that there are others who corroborate at least some of this. The FBI and the CIA both appear to believe it's legit enough to bring it to the attention of the president, the president-elect, and the gang of eight.

Speaking of, both Clapper and Comey have both confirmed tonight that Trump lied during his press conference that he had not been briefed on this. They both say that they spoke with him about it.

Again, I can't POSSIBLY disagree enough with your notion that it's not worth it to report on the president-elect unless it's enough to make him not president. It's totally valid to question whether this was worth posting or not based on how provable is it. Assuming that this or other news comes out that isn't enough to "bring him down" but is enough to point out conflicts of interest or foreign interference, I think it's ludicrous to not report it for fear of "[posing a] threat to our security." Hell, if it's foreign interference, that is the very definition of being a threat to our security. Expecting the press to only say nice things about the president is fascism. Their job is to hold our leaders' feet to the fire, and I'm absolutely boggled that you appear to be saying that, unless it'll burn their feet clean off, it's better that we just don't know what our leaders are up to so we can pretend everything's fine.

In other news, I liked Dana Gould pointing out that even with all the discussion about whether what Buzzfeed did was right or not, nobody's saying "Wow...that doesn't sound like him!"

[Yw-slayer]

In other news, I liked Dana Gould pointing out that even with all the discussion about whether what Buzzfeed did was right or not, nobody's saying "Wow...that doesn't sound like him!"

To be fair, as much as I dislike him (whoops, I guess I'm now banned from the US for life :lol:), I find it difficult to believe the golden shower story. I think it's much more likely that something like that was planted to confuse things even further.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, Swervo, I can understand what you're coming from, but this guy survived the pussy grabbing comment... surely he'll survive this unverified report. And CNN and buzzfeed will now be known by the right wingers as fake news outlets.

America will continue to be a great laughing stock of the world.

Just wondering how long will this circus last.

[Alan P]

Trump, especially over the last few days, is actually beginning to scare me. I'm getting worried for you guys. He's a narcissistic asshole.

[Tom Servo]

And CNN and buzzfeed will now be known by the right wingers as fake news outlets.

They already were. They call CNN "Clinton News Network", despite them employing one of Trump's little buddies, Corey Lewandowski. And they still call CNN a fake news outlet, despite Comey and Clapper confirming their story was accurate.

[Tom Servo]

BBC's take on the whole thing.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427

[MR2 Fan]

In a "hell freezes over" moment, Fox News defended CNN's reporting, I don't have a link right now, but I saw it posted yesterday.

[Tom Servo]

What'll be really interesting is to see how he'll react to anything from NBC/MSNBC. He's retained his executive producer spot on the Apprentice, so he actually stands to lose money if he badmouths that network.

[drew]

What'll be really interesting is to see how he'll react to anything from NBC/MSNBC. He's retained his executive producer spot on the Apprentice, so he actually stands to lose money if he badmouths that network.

Maddow's already (and has been) up his ass, and vows to remain doing so every time (day?!) he says something moronic.

I think it's awesome.

I still find it odd that NOBODY seems to care about him saying he'll outright NOT divest. Everybody's focused on the Russia/4Chan thing.

Distractor in Tweet

[MR2 Fan]

Reading about his press conference scares me (I didn't get a chance to watch it)....he now has his own cheering section of hand-picked supporters for press conferences, and I'm guessing also other white house press briefings too?

[MR2 Fan]

Maddow's already (and has been) up his ass, and vows to remain doing so every time (day?!) he says something moronic.

I think it's awesome.

I still find it odd that NOBODY seems to care about him saying he'll outright NOT divest. Everybody's focused on the Russia/4Chan thing.

Distractor in Tweet

I haven't read a whole lot about the 4Chan thing, but has anyone considered that something IS legitimate, and to de-legitimize it, someone would post in 4Chan...acting like it is a ploy?

I miss Walter Cronkite

[21Kid]

:lol: @ people trying to talk logically to Billi.



Maddow's already (and has been) up his ass, and vows to remain doing so every time (day?!) he says something moronic.I think "time" is more accurate. It could happen multiple times per day.

[Tom Servo]

Ex CIA analyst's take on the dossier.

http://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/1/13/14240616/donald-trump-russia-putin-buzzfeed-intelligence-community

[FaultyMario]

Ex CIA analyst's take on the dossier.


I agree with him on "I'd rather read this for myself and come to my own conclusions", and my own conclusion is that Mr. Trump is a sloppy businessman who has left behind a lot of complicated relations that seriously hamper his ability to distance himself and his interests from those of the majority in the decisions that as a leader of a world superpower he needs to make.

[21Kid]

Honestly, I don't think that would even help. He's proven that friends & favors get special privileges. Just look at his cabinet picks. Even if he would divest all of his interest, he'd still give his friends & donors special favors. :smh: WTF does it matter. :(

[Tom Servo]

Also, when it comes to allegations like this, refusing to release his tax returns (still!) doesn't do him any favors. At least to me it's quite clear that he's hiding something, so that just lets us all speculate as to what it is.

[FaultyMario]

"70 year old businessman, rookie politician" is creepy as hell to have on as a title on a business card.

[Tom Servo]

This is reported what the Sunday Herald has in its TV listings.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2OdvrSW8AAtkl1.jpg:large

[speedpimp]

While denying reports of "Golden Showers Gate" Trump has said that he plans to outfit the US Navy with a fleet of glass bottom boats.

[Tom Servo]

Kinda reminds me of his rant about how generals don't want to use email. Too modern. I think he's had enough of these diesel and nuclear powered ships and wants to go for something older and more reliable, like a Cleveland Steamer.

[G'day Mate]

:lol:

[21Kid]

Also, when it comes to allegations like this, refusing to release his tax returns (still!) doesn't do him any favors. At least to me it's quite clear that he's hiding something, so that just lets us all speculate as to what it is. I think that was pretty clear in the primaries.




"70 year old businessman, rookie politician" is creepy as hell to have on as a title on a business card.He isn't even a good businessman. :smh:

[drew]

Bingo. How do you bankrupt three casinos?


(see what I did there, I'm fuckin awesome)

[MR2 Fan]

I wonder if Trump ever hung out with Max Mosley?

[Tom Servo]

I think that was pretty clear in the primaries.

Totally. Just bringing it up since there are at least a few people wondering why it's okay to speculate as to what Trump's dealings are, especially with Russia. He could put a lot of these rumors to rest very easily.

[FaultyMario]

Can someone with some expertise explain to me how, in a global economy, do you wage a trade war against a country that you're in deep commercial ties with?

I get all the ideological, populist reasons... but I want to know the practicalities!

[Crazed_Insanity]

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2015/08/05/political-beliefs-genetic/

Wow, this is a pretty old blog post but what it's saying is kinda surprising to me. Political ideologies are as much as 65% influenced by genes rather than environment!

No wonder rational debates don't work very well...

No practicalities needed! Poor conservatives can benefit greatly by obamacare on a practical level, but they'd still want it repealed.

[IMOA]

Can someone with some expertise explain to me how, in a global economy, do you wage a trade war against a country that you're in deep commercial ties with?

I get all the ideological, populist reasons... but I want to know the practicalities!

You stick a tariff on everything which a bunch of people cheer about until they realise that everything at walmart just got more expensive and their wages haven't changed.

[21Kid]

:lol: pretty much.

[21Kid]

:( So this is where we are at now? :smh: Republicans believe Fox News more than our own intelligence agencies.


Overall, nearly 8-in-10 say they have been closely following news about Russia's attempts to influence the US presidential election last year, including 84% of Democrats, 75% of independents and 72% of Republicans. But the partisan agreement ends there. But there is less agreement on whether the intelligence community's conclusions are correct. Democrats are more likely to think the intelligence community's assessment is correct: 74% of Democrats see that as very or extremely likely, compared with 17% of Republicans.

[Jason]

Democrats were saying the FBI was full of shit just a couple months ago.

It's all partisan.

[21Kid]

Tom Price may have broken the law in stock transaction (http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/17/politics/chuck-schumer-tom-price-may-have-broken-the-law-in-stock-transaction/index.html?adkey=bn)


Schumer also called for an investigation of Price after CNN reported that Price bought up to $15,000 worth of stock in Zimmer Biomet -- a medical device maker -- and then introduced a measure that would have directly benefited the company. One week after Price bought the stock, he put in a measure that would have delayed a new regulation that would have harmed the company.
"If he knew about it, it could very well be a violation of the law," Schumer told CNN. "Now they say there's a broker, it's kind of strange that this broker would pick this stock totally independently of him introducing legislation that's so narrow and specific to this company." It could be...
If he knew about it...

:mad: Stop pussy-footing around it! Of course he knew about it!!! This is why the Democrats are in trouble. They are too nice about this stuff. And they don't hold anyone's feet to the fire. :mad: At the bare minimum require that he clear this investigation before being confirmed.

[FaultyMario]

Too nice?

They're probably doing the same shit and won't go after the act they themselves are guilty of.

[21Kid]

I meant too nice towards the opposition.
I'm sure there are some Democrats doing it as well. Although, I get the feeling that it's much more of a Republican act.

Because anytime they even smell something that a Democrat might have done... like keep a private email server, it's the end of the world.

I'm just saying that they should keep as much pressure on when something actually bad happens.
(That should include their own party too)

[drew]

Well, get used to it. It will happen again, and again, and not a goddamn thing will be done about it.

Fuck this shit.

[21Kid]

:thisisfine:

[drew]

I think Friday is going to be a binge drink day.

[tigeraid]

Meanwhile, another old white turd has announced he's running for office up here:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/oleary-conservative-leadership-race-1.3940596


t's finally official: Kevin O'Leary will run to become leader of the Conservative Party of Canada.

After months of flirting with the idea, he picked the morning after the French leadership debate and used a video on his Facebook page to declare his candidacy.

"You know why? I listened to you," he said in the video posted Wednesday, thanking the "40,000" Canadians he said went to his website and encouraged him to enter the race.


He's already off to a good start, announcing his candidacy just in time to avoid the French-language debate. He's basically our version of Trump--a colossal asswipe with multiple failed businesses who hates poor people, but will "bring jobs to Canada." :rolleyes:

[21Kid]

Still can't believe this man is taking office tomorrow. :down::smh:

Two days before his swearing in, Donald Trump has forked over $25 million to settle three Trump University fraud lawsuits (http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/18/news/trump-university-settlement-payment/index.html).

Fraudster-in-chief. :rolleyes:

[Tom Servo]

Trump's transition team has announced a whopping 29 of 690 executive branch positions that require Senate confirmation.

As of tomorrow around noon, we'll have an executive branch with just above 4% of the key positions staffed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-administration-appointee-tracker/database/

[drew]

"While we have no doubt that Trump University would have prevailed at trial based on the merits of this case, resolution of these matters allows President-Elect Trump to devote his full attention to the important issues facing our great nation," the Trump Organization said in a statement in November.


Yeah, like Twitter wars with Meryl Streep, Alec Baldwin, and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

The important issues.

Seriously, fuck this guy.

[21Kid]

No way Trump would have forked over $250mil if he could win.

The juxtaposition between #44 & #45 is going to be mind-boggling.

It's a long-standing tradition for the sitting president of the United States to leave a parting letter in the Oval Office for the American elected to take his or her place. It's a letter meant to share what we know, what we've learned, and what small wisdom may help our successor bear the great responsibility that comes with the highest office in our land, and the leadership of the free world.
But before I leave my note for our 45th president, I wanted to say one final thank you for the honor of serving as your 44th. Because all that I've learned in my time in office, I've learned from you. You made me a better President, and you made me a better man.
Throughout these eight years, you have been the source of goodness, resilience, and hope from which I've pulled strength. I've seen neighbors and communities take care of each other during the worst economic crisis of our lifetimes. I have mourned with grieving families searching for answers – and found grace in a Charleston church.
I've taken heart from the hope of young graduates and our newest military officers. I've seen our scientists help a paralyzed man regain his sense of touch, and wounded warriors once given up for dead walk again. I've seen Americans whose lives have been saved because they finally have access to medical care, and families whose lives have been changed because their marriages are recognized as equal to our own. I've seen the youngest of children remind us through their actions and through their generosity of our obligations to care for refugees, or work for peace, and, above all, to look out for each other.
I've seen you, the American people, in all your decency, determination, good humor, and kindness. And in your daily acts of citizenship, I've seen our future unfolding.
All of us, regardless of party, should throw ourselves into that work – the joyous work of citizenship. Not just when there's an election, not just when our own narrow interest is at stake, but over the full span of a lifetime.
I'll be right there with you every step of the way.
And when the arc of progress seems slow, remember: America is not the project of any one person. The single most powerful word in our democracy is the word 'We.' 'We the People.' 'We shall overcome.'
Yes, we can.
And if you'd like to stay connected, you can sign up here to keeping getting updates from me: https://act.barackobamafoundation.org/Keep-In-Touch

[neanderthal]

I guess Obama is coming for your guns tonight then. Or maybe tomorrow while cheeto satan is being inaugurated

[MR2 Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY

[21Kid]

This is fine...

[G'day Mate]

So it's 3:15am and I dragged myself out of bed to watch me some inauguration believe it or not. First impressions:

- where's the black people?
- lots of god-bothering and spell-casting for a secular nation

[Rikadyn]

This is fine...
https://youtu.be/w211KOQ5BMI

[G'day Mate]

Aha, Supreme Court black guy!

[G'day Mate]

More spells and magic words. Is this normal?

[novicius]

Pretty much. :|

[Kchrpm]

Our federal government has the religious freedom to express any form of Christianity that is not identifiable as a specific form of Christianity, as long as it's obviously Christian in nature.

[drew]

Yep. I would love to see a Muslim school open, or try. Just so the hypocrisy was REAL obvious.

Well, it'd be a waste of time, since some people are utterly fucking clueless.

[Kchrpm]

There are Islamic schools in America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Islamic_schools_in_the_United_States

(I didn't know before I searched just now)

[Leon]

- lots of god-bothering and spell-casting for a secular nation

Interesting. I don't know that I'd call USA secular, I would call it the most religious nation in the Western world.

[Kchrpm]

What a great turnout

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/jmei2seqkjz9k40cujo3.jpg

Wait, no, that was from 2009 for Obama. This is for Trump.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/imsk30ocrgrorzzjrge0.jpg

[21Kid]

:lol: I was going to say...

[drew]

Didn't he say (in his rah-rah speech) there were "10s of millions" there?


Jesus.

Speaking of his speech, it was the same thing he'd spouted off time and time again in his campaign.

[Kchrpm]

But it worked in the campaign, right? Right???

[drew]

He's already used the POTUS twitter account too.

So, does that mean he's going to use that to twttier war with celebrities, or will he have the "decency" to use his personal account for his top priority?

[Random]

"decency"

:lol:

[tigeraid]

Aaaaaaaaaaand we're off to a rolling start.

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/trump-administration-removes-all-references-to-climate-change-from-white-house-website/


"The requested page "/energy/climate-change" could not be found.”

The instant President Trump took the oath of office on Friday, an information page about climate change on the White House website was deleted.

Instead, a site called “America First Energy Plan” claims that the Climate Action Plan and the Waters of the US rule – designed specifically to protect American water bodies – is detrimental to society. The aim of the Climate Action Plan is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and combat climate change.

“For too long, we’ve been held back by burdensome regulations on our energy industry," the page says. "President Trump is committed to eliminating harmful and unnecessary policies such as the Climate Action Plan and the Waters of the U.S. rule.”

[21Kid]

And he's made it more expensive for people to get a mortgage... We just had an effective immediately notice go out. And have to redo a bunch of FHA loans.
I hope no-one was waiting to close on their government loan. :(

[Fiat500]

Watching the inauguration actually made me feel physically unwell.
And I'm on the other side of the globe.
So much wrong.

[drew]

and this turd on top of the shit sundae, he pulled a Melania and used Bane from The Dark Night Rises.


Here we go....



The scariest part of his speech was the "Total Allegiance to America"......

[21Kid]

Now that he has taken the oath of office, President Trump stands in violation of the Constitution’s emoluments clause. He just swore on the Bible to ‘preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States,’ but by continuing to accept payments from foreign governments, he has already failed. We do not yet know just to what extent this violation goes—because he is the first person elected to the presidency in decades to fail to clear the ethical bar of Richard Nixon and release his tax returns, much of his foreign business has remained secret. But we do know that there must be accountability for anyone, including the president, for violating the Constitutionouch

[G'day Mate]

Interesting. I don't know that I'd call USA secular, I would call it the most religious nation in the Western world.

You're supposed to have a separation of church and state. Australia's head of state, by contrast, is the Supreme Governor of the Chursh of England.

[edit] Sorry Leon - didn't pay close attention to who I was replying to. Replace "you're" with "they're" and "Australia" with "New Zealand"

[Freude am Fahren]

A note on the website stuff. Apparently it is according to plan. All Obama posts have been moved to his website, http://www.obamawhitehouse.gov, and the new one is a clean slate essentially.

[FaultyMario]

Trump presidency opens with combative “America First” appeal

Euphemisms (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-inaugural-address-america-first_us_588248c1e4b096b4a2315af0) galore. The fucking media.

[neanderthal]

and this turd on top of the shit sundae, he pulled a Melania and used Bane from The Dark Night Rises.


Here we go....



The scariest part of his speech was the "Total Allegiance to America"......

There was quote from a cartoon somewhere in there as well.

edit:
"We are one colony ... and their pain is our pain. Their dreams are our dreams; and their successes will be our success. We share one heart, one hive, one glorious destiny."

[neanderthal]

I have resolved to call him the orangatang in chief. Conservatards called the Obamas monkeys so fair is fair.

They're now Trumpanzees. Just to keep the simian theme.

[neanderthal]

I saw a great thread on Twitter by a chap called Eric Garland about how all the stuff that happened prior to the election was going to create a constitutional crisis. There is nothing about a President elect ...

THERE IS for a President. The case for impeachment is very strong. I don't think it'll happen, but there are laws about what the President can and cannot do. Like have a banquet/ shindig/ event at his hotel...

[drew]

I seriously can't see his reign lasting 4 years. hell, one year.

[MR2 Fan]

via Twitter:

‏@Yair_Rosenberg Jan 20

The good news: if the government really is hiding evidence of aliens, Trump has so little self-restraint we'll know about it by Saturday

[Sad, little man]

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2184&d=1485024948

2184

[drew]

The CIA "press conference" (complete with, I'm sure Trump staff "applause" (really??!)), then Spicer's "press conference".


It's very, very fucking scary.

If only more people would wise up and get past the "but he's not PC, that's why I like him" and actually see what path he's started down.

As soon as the media is gone, the country will soon follow.

Fucking hell.

[Sad, little man]

Seems that he just can't do anything without tripping and falling over his own dick, which is really inexplicable based on how small it must certainly be.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/21/politics/trump-to-cia-i-am-so-behind-you/

Gonna be a wild four years, or, more likely, time period between now and when we start trading ICBMs with NKorea.

[Freude am Fahren]

“This was the largest audience ever to witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe.” - Trump's Press Sec.


:lol: If only I could be as delusional as them, I'd be living in a wonderland.

[G'day Mate]

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if it was the widest global audience.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Ji5aBD2HtJ_J0-7yvzouEYHVY2I=/0x0:540x723/920x613/filters:focal(227x319:313x405):format(webp)/cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/52858665/C2t7hgBUAAI2ZzI.0.jpg

[drew]

Seems that he just can't do anything without tripping and falling over his own dick, which is really inexplicable based on how small it must certainly be.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/21/politics/trump-to-cia-i-am-so-behind-you/

Gonna be a wild four years, or, more likely, time period between now and when we start trading ICBMs with NKorea.

The irony. Merrick Garland, heard of him?

Seriously, fuck this shit.

[Leon]

I wonder how big this thread is going to get, given the amount of material the Trumpanzee is providing...

[neanderthal]

“This was the largest audience ever to witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe.” - Trump's Press Sec.


:lol: If only I could be as delusional as them, I'd be living in a wonderland.

Ha! The last eight years of all their delusional claims about Obama being a gay/ muslim/ alien/ everything they ever called him, the whole "he's coming to take your guns" nonsense, the "death panels" in his healthcare plan, the massive deficits he was running, how he was ruining the economy, how weak he was on terrorism, how Al Qaida was getting stronger during his presidency, etc etc etc etc.

They've been living in their own alternate reality for 8 years already.

[Freude am Fahren]

Longer really. First they were just in the state governments, then the House, then they started becoming Senators and primary candidates, now they're in control of everything.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wonder when will both sides get a grip of the true reality rather than continue to live in their own realities...

If it's really true that Trump trade marked 'make America great again' 4 years ago day after Romney lost, then one has to give Trump some credit for his genius ability at taking a strangle hold on that 'alternate reality'!

The dude had already trade marked 'keep America great' for 2020. Very curious to see if he can deliver his 'alternate reality' again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-donald-trump-came-up-with-make-america-great-again/2017/01/17/fb6acf5e-dbf7-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html?utm_term=.7bd108839190

Hope DNC can give us somebody who can really grasp the true reality so that we can keep America great without trump...

[Tom Servo]

Kellyanne Conway was on Meet the Press saying that what Sean Spicer claimed about the crowd size at the inauguration wasn't a falsehood, it was an "alternative fact".

Newspeak is alive and well.

[MR2 Fan]

to all Republicans: Adam Savage's "I reject your reality and substitute my own" quote was meant as a joke, not as a call to action

[Freude am Fahren]

I wish CNN would stop saying "falsehoods" and start saying "lies".

[Tom Servo]

Washington Post gives Spicer four Pinocchios, wishes they could give five.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/22/spicer-earns-four-pinocchios-for-a-series-of-false-claims-on-inauguration-crowd-size/?utm_term=.9128c9674b0e

[drew]

It's just the most fucked up thing I've seen yet... and this is Trump we're talking about!

[Tom Servo]

Also, now that the audit is coming to a close, they're admitting that whole "We can't release the tax returns because of the audit" thing was bullshit all along and have never had any intention of releasing them.

https://twitter.com/PhilipRucker/status/823178209273532417

[tigeraid]

Ladies and gentlemen, the Secretary of Education:


http://i.imgur.com/pFG8uYE.jpg

[drew]

:lol:

[The359]

Also, now that the audit is coming to a close, they're admitting that whole "We can't release the tax returns because of the audit" thing was bullshit all along and have never had any intention of releasing them.

https://twitter.com/PhilipRucker/status/823178209273532417

Surprised it took them two days to change that one around.

[Yw-slayer]

Dictators everywhere are ROFL.

[Tom Servo]

You Would Do The Same Thing If An Old Witch Had Your Father’s Soul Trapped In A Lantern

http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/you-would-do-same-thing-if-old-witch-had-your-fath-55119

[drew]

:lol:

[Phil_SS]

As crazy as it seems it is the only explanation.

[21Kid]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/immediately-release-donald-trumps-full-tax-returns-all-information-needed-verify-emoluments-clause-compliance

Immediately release Donald Trump's full tax returns, with all information needed to verify emoluments clause compliance. (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/immediately-release-donald-trumps-full-tax-returns-all-information-needed-verify-emoluments-clause-compliance)

[Jason]

They said they weren't going to release them *after* the petition made 100k.

The petition site is not going to get any results with this administration (not that it did a whole lot of good with the Obama administration)

[21Kid]

It's worth a try. Something > nothing.

[novicius]

This Republican leadership is going to do their level best to eliminate all of FDR's New Deal. Time will tell if they retain political power after that, gerrymandered districts or not. #shrug #bitingthehandthatfeedsyou

[21Kid]

President Trump issued an executive order Monday freezing federal hiring.

He's going to sign the most executive orders by a long-shot too. Someone who ran on the platform that only he can fix it, was vindicated when elected... it's what the people want.

[FaultyMario]

It's worth a try. Something > nothing.

Yeah, but.

I don't think using the will (http://shar.es/1OeA3K) of the oppressor is going to result in anything more than obstructionism and delays.

I think that what we're seeing is the World System trying to regulate itself into a stable state, but as it is a system based on practical inequality and one that works much, much better for a fraction of the world populace rather than for the majority, some major changes to its internal structure need to happen in order to make it stable again. The whole crisis of representation in indirect democracy is a symptom of the the things that need to be addressed.

And they are not going to be changed by those who have benefited by the current design.

Just how far we're going to modify it depends a lot on how this particular brand of Fascism (http://www.tomweston.net/happenhere.pdf)deals with organized efforts to erode the elite's control of the system.

[The359]

President Trump issued an executive order Monday freezing federal hiring.

He's going to sign the most executive orders by a long-shot too. Someone who ran on the platform that only he can fix it, was vindicated when elected... it's what the people want.

Which I again find odd, as a lot of "Nobama" people were quick to cite how many excutive orders Obama issued as a sign that he was power hungry...

[Sad, little man]

No no, you don't get it. It's ok when Trump does it, understand?

Regarding the petition. Yes, it is unlikely to result in any concrete action, but the more signatures and media attention it gets, the harder it becomes to explain away, even with this nn-fact based administration. At least that's my hope.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Simplest way is to fix this is to make it a legal requirement. Not just by petition or tradition. I didn't realize us presidents enjoyed a lot of above the law privileges. Same with the conflict of interest thing...

New laws need to be put in place to disqualify candidates based on their tax returns and their inability to avoid conflict of interests...

[neanderthal]

Which I again find odd, as a lot of "Nobama" people were quick to cite how many excutive orders Obama issued as a sign that he was power hungry...

You are associating common sense with that group of people? That's mighty generous of you.

But, yeah, it's fun to throw those back in their faces, right?

[neanderthal]

Even though the first day is gone, did we see anything like this list?
snipped list:

IMMIGRATION:

—Stop all federal funding to "sanctuary cities" — places where local officials don't arrest or detain immigrants living in the country illegally for federal authorities.

—Begin deporting what Trump estimates to be more than 2 million criminal illegal immigrants living in the country.

—Cancel visas for citizens of foreign countries that won't take those criminal illegal immigrants back.

—Immediately terminate former President Barack Obama's "two illegal executive amnesties." That presumably includes DACA, which protects people who were brought into the country illegally as children.

—Begin working on an "impenetrable physical wall" along the southern border.

—Ask Congress to pass "Kate's Law," which would increase penalties on people who unlawfully re-enter the United States after being removed.

SECURITY AND DEFENSE:

—Immediately suspend the Syrian refugee program.

—Convene his generals and inform them that they have 30 days to submit a new plan for defeating the Islamic State group.

—Suspend immigration from "terror-prone regions" where he says vetting is too difficult.

—Implement new "extreme" immigration vetting techniques.

TRADE:

—Announce his intention to renegotiate or withdraw from the North American Free Trade Agreement with Canada and Mexico.

—Formally withdraw from the 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership.

—Direct his treasury secretary to label China a currency manipulator.

DRAINING THE SWAMP and GOVERNMENT REFORM:

—Propose a Constitutional amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress.

—Ban White House and congressional officials from becoming lobbyists for five years after they leave the government.

—Ban former White House officials from lobbying on behalf of foreign governments for the rest of their lives.

—Ban foreign lobbyists from raising money for U.S. elections.

—Impose a hiring freeze on federal employees, excluding military, public safety and public health staff.

—Impose a requirement that for every new federal regulation imposed, two existing regulations be eliminated.

ENERGY AND THE ENVIRONMENT:

—Remove any Obama-era roadblocks to energy projects such as the Keystone XL pipeline.

—Lift restrictions on mining coal and drilling for oil and natural gas.

—Cancel payments to the U.N.'s climate change programs and use the money to fix America's water and environmental infrastructure.

HEALTH CARE, GUN CONTROL AND OTHER ISSUES:

—Cancel "every unconstitutional executive action, memorandum and order issued by President Obama."

—Ask Congress to send him a bill to repeal and replace Obama's signature health care law.

—Begin the process of selecting a new Supreme Court justice.

—Get rid of gun-free zones in schools and on military bases.

[neanderthal]

And where are the Trumpanzees on the failure to enact any of those promises?

[The359]

Simplest way is to fix this is to make it a legal requirement. Not just by petition or tradition. I didn't realize us presidents enjoyed a lot of above the law privileges. Same with the conflict of interest thing...

New laws need to be put in place to disqualify candidates based on their tax returns and their inability to avoid conflict of interests...

Or requiring them to show their birth certificate to prove they are American. Twice...?

[The359]

—Formally withdraw from the 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership.

—Impose a hiring freeze on federal employees, excluding military, public safety and public health staff.


Yes, he did do those two.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Or requiring them to show their birth certificate to prove they are American. Twice...?

Once should be enough..., but it should be produced at candidate level.

Voters shouldn't have to ask or petition or question anybody for these basic things after the fact.

All these political BS are all results of lack of proper rules or laws or lack of enforcement. IRS should just release all presidents returns under freedom of information act, but I suppose then again president could still manage to go around that...

If Obama can ignore freedom of information act what's the big deal about trump hiding his personal tax returns?

anyway, it'll be hard to twist a president's arm to make him to what we want him to do, but it should be easy to make IRS publicize tax returns of public servants..., or at least have the power to kick them out of offices should something looks fishy.

[21Kid]

You are associating common sense with that group of people? That's mighty generous of you.

But, yeah, it's fun to throw those back in their faces, right?
Except it's like trying to nail jello to the wall.

[21Kid]

Texas State Rep. Tony Tinderholt recently proposed a bill that would criminalize abortions.
He defended the bill by saying blocking access to abortions would help women become more "personally responsible" for their sex lives.FYI, he's on his 5th marriage.


2190

Betsy DeVos, nominee for Secretary of the Department of Education
Since 1989, Betsy DeVos and her relatives have given at least $20.2 million to Republican candidates, party committees, PACs and super PACs, according to an OpenSecrets.org analysis.

Elaine Chao, nominee for Secretary of the Department of Transportation
Mitch McConnell, the husband of Elaine Chao, has contributed $257,000 over the years to his fellow Senators on the 115th Senate Commerce committee. - Chao sat on the board of Vulcan Materials, which spent $370,000 on lobbying in 2016, incl lobbying the Dept of Transportation
Chao is also a board member of wells fargo, which has significant lobbying, but none directed at DeptTrans
The Senate Commerce Committee will consider Chao's nomination.

Rex Tillerson, nominee for Secretary of the Department of State
Rex Tillerson was the CEO of ExxonMobil from 2006-2017. Exxon Mobil has donated $230,655 to members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which will consider his nomination.

Jay Clayton, nominee for Chair of the Securities and Exchange Commission
Jay Clayton is an attorney at Sullivan & Cromwell, a firm which represents financial clients. Sullivan & Cromwell, through its emloyees, has given over $240,000 to members of the Senate Finance Committee, which will oversee Clayton's nomination.

Jeff Sessions, nominee for Attorney General
Jeff Sessions has contributed $90,000 since 1989 to his fellow Senators on the 115th Senate Judiciary committee.
Talk about pay-to-play... which was another Trump rally cry against Clinton. It's amazing how big a deal it is when they rally against Clinton, although she wasn't even guilty of it. But, they give zero fucks when Trump does the exact same thing he said was a problem.

[Sad, little man]

Simplest way is to fix this is to make it a legal requirement. Not just by petition or tradition. I didn't realize us presidents enjoyed a lot of above the law privileges. Same with the conflict of interest thing...

New laws need to be put in place to disqualify candidates based on their tax returns and their inability to avoid conflict of interests...

Have fun getting those laws passed with the current makeup of power in Washington.

[21Kid]

I can't believe he keeps saying this. :smh: And that people have to keep saying how illegal and impractical it is.
Should the U.S. have kept Iraq's oil, as Donald Trump argues? (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/sep/09/should-US-have-kept-Iraq-oil/)

"Insofar as Mr. Trump's proposals are coherent enough to be subject to analysis and judgment, they appear to be practically impossible, legally prohibited, and politically imbecilic," said Barnett Rubin, associate director of New York University’s Center on International Cooperation.

[MR2 Fan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C28gnKLXUAAalIK.jpg