Politics

[The359]

Once should be enough..., but it should be produced at candidate level.

Voters shouldn't have to ask or petition or question anybody for these basic things after the fact.

They were asked for, repeatedly, during Trump's election.


All these political BS are all results of lack of proper rules or laws or lack of enforcement. IRS should just release all presidents returns under freedom of information act, but I suppose then again president could still manage to go around that...

If Obama can ignore freedom of information act what's the big deal about trump hiding his personal tax returns?

That's not how the Freedom of Information Act works, eactually, and no one used the Freedom of Information act to ask for Obama's birth certificate. I'd also point out that not all information is accessible under the Freedom of Information Act.


anyway, it'll be hard to twist a president's arm to make him to what we want him to do, but it should be easy to make IRS publicize tax returns of public servants..., or at least have the power to kick them out of offices should something looks fishy.

That's like saying it'd be easy for your doctor to just publish your medical records. Which is not something they can legally do, even with a Freedom of Information Act request.

[Fogelhund]

For what it's worth, Trump just signed to give the Keystone Pipeline the go ahead. This is going to get interesting in a big hurry.

[Tom Servo]

EPA and USDA have both been told to no longer communicate to the public, including the results of publicly-funded research. Absolute lockdown on social media, blog posts, press releases, and no updates to either of their websites.

It's weird, though, I know someone around here kept harping on how no administration could be less transparent than Obama's, so that doesn't seem right :/

[novicius]

#sadlulz

[21Kid]

:sadbanana:

[drew]

Putinism 101

[Tom Servo]

Hey, isn't that neat. Right after the EPA are told they aren't allowed to address the public anymore, the AP reports that Michigan's environmental agency report that Flint's water no longer has lead levels exceeding federal limit. The organization that can confirm or deny that is now not allowed to do that.

EDIT: Even better, they can't say whether the administration changed what the federal levels are - they may have just increased the federal limit to above what's in Flint's water.

[Rikadyn]

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/24/journalists-charged-felonies-trump-inauguration-unrest


Four more journalists have been charged with felonies after being arrested while covering the unrest around Donald Trump’s inauguration, meaning that at least six media workers are facing up to 10 years in prison and a $25,000 fine if convicted.

[The359]

I find it very odd how much is coming through executive order and not passing through Congress. Surely a Republican-controlled government would easily approve any suggestions Trump would make. Is he just trying to bypass any potential Democratic debate?

[Phil_SS]

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[Crazed_Insanity]

EPA and USDA have both been told to no longer communicate to the public, including the results of publicly-funded research. Absolute lockdown on social media, blog posts, press releases, and no updates to either of their websites.

It's weird, though, I know someone around here kept harping on how no administration could be less transparent than Obama's, so that doesn't seem right :/

Obama is factually the least transparent prez ever so far. That is not alternate reality but a reality most of you don't seem to care.

Now, trumps unwillingness to even produce his tax returns is probably indicative of how he will dethrone Obama in that area.

Now, with regard to locking down public/tax funded research results, how the hell is that possible?

[The359]

Obama is factually the least transparent prez ever so far. That is not alternate reality but a reality most of you don't seem to care.


Wut?

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, you're gonna have to back that one up. Just offhand I'd guess that Nixon was less transparent.

Also, all of us knowing that Trump was going to be worse didn't mean we didn't care.

[MR2 Fan]

EPA, USDA and other agencies under gag orders...I knew things could get bad, but this is a whole new kind of crazy...he needs to go NOW


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qdRyMgaR2g

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wut?
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-administration-sets-new-record-withholding-foia-requests/

I posted this link several times in this thread, but you guys either ignored it or just don't believe it as real or don't care because Repblicans are just worse...

Example of each side care only about their own realities. We don't care how bad our candidate is because we already know the other candidate is worse!

Reality is that both sides suck bad enough to not earn my vote. I have no reason to believe Hillary will be more transparent. DNC was also capable of secret gag orders when it suits them... Such as the media gag order which derailed sanders campaign...

When we end up having to pick the lesser of 2 evils, this is what happens. Shit.

[The359]

You realize Freedom of Information Act requests are people filing formal requests asking for specific documents, right? They're not the only method of "transparency" in government. They also would not include documents that are already handed out by the government without a request.

Not saying he's the most transparent President ever, but your statement doesn't exactly match up with your source.

[Rare White Ape]

This FB page is full of win and should be followed at the earliest opportunity.

https://www.facebook.com/GodEmperorTrump/

[Crazed_Insanity]

You realize Freedom of Information Act requests are people filing formal requests asking for specific documents, right? They're not the only method of "transparency" in government. They also would not include documents that are already handed out by the government without a request.

Not saying he's the most transparent President ever, but your statement doesn't exactly match up with your source.

If an admin is really that transparent, there'd be no need to request any more information.

You can pick fault at my statement, but fact, reality is that Obama admin is the worst since 1966 at denying, delaying information requests under such act.

But that's ok, because democrats know what they're doing, only republicans are evil morons living in their own realities.

[Tom Servo]

So you claim something is factual, then when called out on it, correct your statement but blame everyone else. Solid.

[21Kid]

This is fine...
Executives at some of the biggest Wall Street banks have sold nearly $100 million worth of stock since the Nov. 8 election, according to a Wall Street Journal review of securities filings.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I stated a fact. 359 disputed my statement. I did not correct my statement, i just said that you could find fault with my statement if you want, but I still think Obama admin had been the least transparent since 1966 and I have the facts to back that up based on foia records. If you guys have any better way to objectively measure transparency, I'm all ears.

I've also been blaming people on both sides since the beginning of magnifying faults of other side and minimizing faults on there own side and thus each living in their own realities.

Anyway, Obama is over and done with, hopefully Trump won't dethrone him when it comes to these foia requests.

[21Kid]

Billi doesn't follow a singular train of thought. He lives his life based on beliefs. Whether factual or not (usually not). And he changes from moment to moment, based on what he currently feels. There is no point in trying to have an actual conversation with him, because his beliefs will change (and therefore what he claims to be important) based on the changing conversation, often leading to him to disagree with even his own previous position.

[Tom Servo]

By definition, if you're judging transparency solely on a metric that didn't even exist until 1966, you can't say that he was *factually* the least transparent president ever. At best, you'll only cover the last 9 of them, including the one that's been in office for all of six days.

I haven't studied the history of the FOIA, but I'd hazard a guess it was created in response to a lack of transparency as it seems superfluous if we governmental transparency wasn't an issue. If that's the case, that would lead me to believe that some of the first 36 presidents may well have been even less transparent.

I've said before and I'll say again, I have my problems with Obama's claims of transparency vs. his actions, and I don't necessarily think Clinton would be any better. I do think Trump has already, in 5 days, shown himself to be far worse. You'll notice, however, the part that is in dispute is the claim that he's factually the least transparent ever, and that part is unequivocally wrong. If you'd said "he was factually the president that blocked the most FOIA requests", then there wouldn't be a dispute.

[Kchrpm]

I think Billi is right in this situation. He said the Obama administration was the least transparent, we asked for justification of that statement, and he provided it via a reliable source. Though the sheer number of requests likely makes it tougher to keep up than it was before current times, there were still issues like this:


In nearly 1 in 3 cases, when someone challenged under appeal the administration’s initial decision to censor or withhold files, the government reconsidered and acknowledged it was at least partly wrong. That was the highest reversal rate in at least five years.
-----------------
The new figures showed the government responded to 647,142 requests, a 4 percent decrease over the previous year. It more than ever censored materials it turned over or fully denied access to them, in 250,581 cases or 39 percent of all requests. Sometimes, the government censored only a few words or an employee’s phone number, but other times it completely marked out nearly every paragraph on pages.

Does that mean Obama's presidency was failed or anything similar? No. Does it mean Donald Trump won't be worse? No. But it does mean there is at least some justification to the statement that the Obama administration was on the low end of transparency when compared to all others since the passing of the Freedom of Information Act.

[Tom Servo]

In other news, not all hope is lost yet. USDA gag order "is hereby rescinded" after public outcry. EPA and NPS ones appear to still be in place.

[Tom Servo]

I think Billi is right in this situation. He said the Obama administration was the least transparent, we asked for justification of that statement, and he provided it via a reliable source. Though the sheer number of requests likely makes it tougher to keep up than it was before current times, there were still issues like this:



Does that mean Obama's presidency was failed or anything similar? No. Does it mean Donald Trump won't be worse? No. But it does mean there is at least some justification to the statement that the Obama administration was on the low end of transparency when compared to all others since the passing of the Freedom of Information Act.

Personally, if I were Billi, I would have followed it up with "I should clarify. He's factually the president who has blocked/censored both the highest number of FOIA requests and the highest percentage of overall requests." and then be done with it. Clarify the previously impossible to prove statement. Don't immediately go into a tirade about how people think it isn't important or live in an alternate reality or believe that it's okay if a democratic president does it, because all of that isn't true if you're talking about my thoughts on it.

[The359]

Billi, the documents requested under FOIA, aren't necessarily ones that were created under Obama's administration. They are requests for anything on record, most of the time to declassify information long after its use. So poorly responding to FOIA requests does not mean that his government was not transparent in their actions.

[Freude am Fahren]

This FB page is full of win and should be followed at the earliest opportunity.

https://www.facebook.com/GodEmperorTrump/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV_kQbF9Ob4&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=GodEmperorTrump

[21Kid]

Trump's most senior staff use a private email server (https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/25/trumps-most-senior-staff-use-a-private-email-server/)

[Tom Servo]

From the AP's Twitter Feed:

"BREAKING: Trump administration mandating EPA scientific studies, data undergo review by political staff before public release."

[21Kid]

:angry:

[Kchrpm]

I asked a coworker what he thought of Trump's people using the RNC email server. His response:

"One, I don't trust the media.
Two, I don't trust the media.
Three, I don't trust the media."

[Sad, little man]

We need to just get it over with and have another civil war.

[Freude am Fahren]

Remember when it was the government you're not supposed to trust?

[Yw-slayer]

I asked a coworker what he thought of Trump's people using the RNC email server. His response:

"One, I don't trust the media.
Two, I don't trust the media.
Three, I don't trust the media."

Your coworker should be shot for being an idiot.

[Tom Servo]

I believe that this transcript is what they describe as "pants-shittingly terrifying".

http://linkis.com/abcnews.go.com/Polit/jtQcuT1

[Crazed_Insanity]

Personally, if I were Billi, I would have followed it up with "I should clarify. He's factually the president who has blocked/censored both the highest number of FOIA requests and the highest percentage of overall requests." and then be done with it. Clarify the previously impossible to prove statement. Don't immediately go into a tirade about how people think it isn't important or live in an alternate reality or believe that it's okay if a democratic president does it, because all of that isn't true if you're talking about my thoughts on it.

Is it really that unreasonable to say that an admin blocking the most foia requests as the least transparent? That is pretty much the only metric we can use and main purpose for foia was to make govt more transparent, no? Further, do we really need to compare transparency of modern presidents to George Washington? The only part I needed to clarify was Obama was the worst we've ever measured so far since 1966!

So let me try again to see if I can make it better:

Obama admin was the least transparent admin EVER based on percentage of foia requests blocked.

Is that something you guys can agree with?

Anyway, whether you guys agree or not, that really came to me as a huge surprise and disappointment. That was certainly not one of the campaign promises.

To be fair to Obama, I wonder if this poor record was mostly due to Hillarys email fiasco.

Anyway, main problem with politics right now is that each side uses different rulers to measure folks of different parties. Each side knows their guy isn't perfect but willingly over look their problems while magnifying the problems of opposing side.

Had Obama/Hillary been more transparent, there'd be no need for Russians/wikileak/fbi to mess with elections.

But my gut feeling is that Hillary had something to hide... Likewise trump has something to hide with his returns.

As much as I dislike them both, I do believe america is great enough to at least survive either one of them. Who knows, maybe with a more unified government under republican leadership, maybe they will actually end up making America great again just because of less bickering and grid lock..., if not, then I hope Democratic Party won't screw it up again after frustrated voters give power back to them in 2020.

Sigh...

[Yw-slayer]

I believe that this transcript is what they describe as "pants-shittingly terrifying".

http://linkis.com/abcnews.go.com/Polit/jtQcuT1


Fucking hilarious. This is your CINC and the Leader of the Free World talking:

"I was with the Ford yesterday. And with General Motors yesterday. The top representatives, great people."

"We'll be having some really good, really solid plans within a short period of time."

"And I've seen crowds before. Big, big crowds. That was some crowd. When I looked at the numbers that happened to come in from all of the various sources, we had the biggest audience in the history of inaugural speeches. I said the men and women that I was talking to who came out and voted will never be forgotten again. Therefore I won't allow you or other people like you to demean that crowd and to demean the people that came to Washington, D.C., from faraway places because they like me. But more importantly they like what I'm saying."

The rest I can't be fucked to quote.

[drew]

Paging Orwell.

[Phil_SS]

I didn't live during the Nixon era. But, I'm pretty sure this is what Nixon would have looked like with social media and the 24 hours news cycle.

Trump can't help himself. He has to be told at all times that he is the best and that he won. He is the biggest narcissistic sore winner I have ever seen. It's like an SNL skit at all times.

[Tom Servo]

Is it really that unreasonable to say that an admin blocking the most foia requests as the least transparent?

To claim that "factually" it was the least transparent while also not citing the specific metric you were using? Yes, it was that unreasonable. Thanks for clarifying.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/16195853_1861561743873270_5639626445406940199_n.jp g?oh=9d5a912becedadee3729520c5b1cf8b8&oe=590B7FA8

[Jason]

:up:

[Rikadyn]

I didn't live during the Nixon era.

Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72 would probably be a good read for us...

[21Kid]

OMG, the first thing he says...
I can be the most Presidential President ever. Other than possibly the great Abe Lincoln. But, I can be the most Presidential President ever. But, I may not be able to get the job done if I do that.
geez... what a trainwreck.
DAVID MUIR: But again ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I'm doing an ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... investigation. David, David, David ...
DAVID MUIR: You’re now, you’re now president of the United States when you say ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Of course, and I want the voting process to be legitimate.
DAVID MUIR: But what I'm asking ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: The people that ...
DAVID MUIR: ... what I'm asking that -- when you say in your opinion millions of illegal votes, that is something that is extremely fundamental to our functioning democracy, a fair and free election.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Sure. Sure. Sure.
DAVID MUIR: You say you're gonna launch an investigation.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Sure, done.
DAVID MUIR: What you have presented so far has been debunked. It's been called ...
(OVERTALK)
DAVID MUIR: ... false.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, it hasn't. Take a look at the Pew reports.
DAVID MUIR: I called the author of the Pew report last night. And he told me that they found no evidence of voter ...
(OVERTALK)
DAVID MUIR: ... fraud.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Really? Then why did he write the report?
DAVID MUIR: He said no evidence of voter fraud.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Excuse me, then why did he write the report?
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: According to Pew report, then he's -- then he's groveling again. You know, I always talk about the reporters that grovel when they wanna write something that you wanna hear but not necessarily millions of people wanna hear or have to hear. I almost hope they do find fraud and have to redo the election. That would be hilarious if he lost due to his own ego. :lol:

[21Kid]

Oh god Ross... We need to get out! I didn't realize it was so bad!?!? Glad someone finally told me!!!

PRESIDENT TRUMP: But you can't have those killings going on in Chicago. Chicago is like a war zone. Chicago is worse than some of the people that you report in some of the places that you report about every night ...
DAVID MUIR: So, I will send ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... in the Middle East.
DAVID MUIR: ... you mentioned federal assistance. There's federal assistance and then there's sending in the feds. I'm just curious would you take action on your own?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I want them to fix the problem. You can't have thousands of people being shot in a city, in a country that I happen to be president of. Maybe it's okay if somebody else is president. I want them to fix the problem. They have a problem that's very easily fixable.
They're gonna have to get tougher and stronger and smarter. But they gotta fix the problem. I don't want to have thousands of people shot in a city where essentially I'm the president. I love Chicago. I know Chicago. And Chicago is a great city, can be a great city.It's worse than the middle-east? :o Shit! I must have been living under a rock.

[Freude am Fahren]

It's an "easy fix"?

Please, Trump go to Chicago and try to fix it yourself.

[21Kid]

Didn't he say he could fix it in one week (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-trump-chicago-police-crime-met-20160823-story.html)? :lol:

[The359]

"Maybe its okay if someone else is President".

Election over, Obama is gone, and Trump is still taking pot shots. I thought we were supposed to be coming together and shit?

[Leon]

You guys in 'merica, and by reference those of us influenced by the global 'merica, are in a truly scary place right now.

Idiocracy incoming, with a nice dose of 1984 mixed in.

[21Kid]

"What's going on in Chicago?” Donald J. Trump asks at the Republican retreat.
“Democrats,” a crowd member chimes in.
"A lot of truth to it,” Trump responds.Way to bring everyone together Fuckface Von Clownstick. :mad:

[novicius]

When he says he's gonna bring everyone together, he's saying that the competition is over, he won, come kiss his ring, bow your head and back his play.

You know, what Hillary said. :assclown:

[The359]

This one just made my head hurt...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/politics/president-trump-white-house.html


His mornings, he said, are spent as they were in Trump Tower. He rises before 6 a.m., watches television tuned to a cable channel first in the residence, and later in a small dining room in the West Wing, and looks through the morning newspapers: The New York Times, The New York Post and now The Washington Post.

But his meetings now begin at 9 a.m., earlier than they used to, which significantly curtails his television time. Still, Mr. Trump, who does not read books, is able to end his evenings with plenty of television.

Doesn't read books, doesn't like intelligence reports because he's smart enough, yet finds time to watch plenty of television.

But distrusts the media

[MR2 Fan]

Yeah, he literally took the quote that Bill O'Reilly made on his show about the crime statistics in Chicago verbatim into his tweet the next morning.

[drew]

New presidents have their "first 100 days".


I honestly don't see him remaining King that long.

They're (GOP) is likely letting him run his freak show to distract everybody while they do the shit they've always wanted to do. Then when they have that done, it's time to promote Pence.

That's my theory anyway. But we're in an "Alternative Fact" era, so who the fuck knows.

There's no fucking way he's going to go the full 4 years. He'll either have been impeached (or worse), and/or irreparably damaged foreign relations to the point, that they don't want to talk to us, regardless of who's in charge.

Or, the world is the setting of Fallout 4.


At this point, I would gladly take Mike Pence, as much as it pains me to say that. He, at least, had some semblance of knowledge and diplomacy. It's a shit sandwich anyway you look at it. If Pence is promoted, the same shitty laws/reversals will happen for us. But at least with him, I don't think we have to worry (my biggest worry, in fact) about him fucking off allies/etc, and making the global stage a complete shit show. That's OUR center ring now.

Mexico has already cancelled its meeting with DJT. So it begins.

[21Kid]

Trump has already appointed his circus freaks to cabinet positions though. Putting Pence in place won't help if they're all hell-bent on destroying the institutions that they are in charge of. :/

[MR2 Fan]

Trump has already appointed his circus freaks to cabinet positions though. Putting Pence in place won't help if they're all hell-bent on destroying the institutions that they are in charge of. :/

so stupid question, can't VEEP change the cabinet (if he wants to) if the president is kicked out?

[Tom Servo]

Spicer apparently just announced that they'll get Mexico to pay for the wall via a 20% import tax.

Who pays that tax?

Us. Mostly on groceries. Awesome. Enjoy your $5 limes.

[novicius]

:lol:

[21Kid]

I heard (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-would-seek-to-block-money-transfers-to-force-mexico-to-fund-border-wall/2016/04/05/c0196314-fa7c-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html?utm_term=.46f4b7b0852b)he' d make them pay a tax on remittances, :smh: which became their biggest source of foreign income.


In the memo, Trump said he would threaten to change a rule under the USA Patriot Act antiterrorism law to cut off a portion of the funds sent to Mexico through money transfers, commonly known as remittances. The threat would be withdrawn if Mexico made “a one-time payment of $5-10 billion” to pay for the border wall, he wrote.

Mexico's central bank reported Mexicans overseas sent nearly $24.8 billion home in 2015, overtaking oil revenues for the first time as a source of foreign income.

[Freude am Fahren]

♫♫ Avacado$ from Mexicooo... ♫♫

[drew]

Trump has already appointed his circus freaks to cabinet positions though. Putting Pence in place won't help if they're all hell-bent on destroying the institutions that they are in charge of. :/

Right, that was my point.

That part, we're just fucked. But it's just "us". It's the damage to global diplomacy/relations, etc, that scares the fuck out of me.

If DJT was outted, you can bet his stupid fucking wall thing would go with him. The TPP thing will just fuck us with a trade war. Those two things, so far anyway, are our only international "impact". In which both are easily reversed if/when he's impeached.

[21Kid]

Yeah, I might be able to afford a foreign vacation in the next few years and I'm afraid to go to other countries because of how they'd view me. :(
Obama (I think) improved our image on the international stage. And now this Ahole is just burning all the good-will bridges.

[IMOA]

Americans survived overseas holidays with Bush as President, you'll survive Trump as well. This may come as a shock but people around the world are well aware that only a very small percentage of Americans actually voted for Trump and unless you're wandering about with a Make America Great Again hat you're far far more likely to get pity than abuse.

[21Kid]

That's good to know. :)

OOOooohhh, no I get why he keeps arguing about the crowd size. 2198

[Tom Servo]

IMOA is 100% right in my experience. When I've traveled abroad, I've never had an "eww, an American?" response. Even in France. The main thing I get is concern about the fact that I don't get universal healthcare.

[Tom Servo]

Also, sounds like Spicer is now backpedaling, saying that that wasn't an actual policy proposal, just an example of an option of how to get Mexico to pay for the wall. Which means they have no fucking idea how they'll accomplish this goal.

[FaultyMario]

I mean, there is a wall.

And for the parts that are unwalled is it feasible to, project design, fund and build in four years?

Or are 'the fans' that ignorant of their own vast expanses of land?

[MR2 Fan]

They'll probably make the wall an 8 year plan, because....re-election, duh.

Anyway:


http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a8pr46O_460s.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

The Great Wall of China was built but without a happy ending. Wonder if Trump can do better than the ruthless emperor Chin.

Trump is a master manipulator of people's feelings. That's how he won. I suspect this is all just talk because neither US nor Mexico can afford this Great Wall of America... If he does push this thru, then we can expect results such as his universities except 1000x worse... And thousands of years later, maybe it'll also be a great tourist destination...

[The359]

You said that during the election, you said that after he was elected. At what point does "it's all just talk" become "he actually means it"? When it's too late?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey, it's all beyond my control.

I just can't believe we have the resources necessary for such awesome wall.

Just as we can't really afford our current deficit, but if our govt eventually authorizes it, what can we do?

Could we really stop the Iraq/Vietnam/and all other BS wars and divert our resources to something more constructive?

No?

Figures.

Best I can do is hope and pray that at least something good can come out of these shit.

Yes, God or Mother Nature could use manure to grow something good! We don't have to be completely hopeless. :)

[Yw-slayer]

IMOA is 100% right in my experience. When I've traveled abroad, I've never had an "eww, an American?" response. Even in France. The main thing I get is concern about the fact that I don't get universal healthcare.

The closest I ever got was to a woman (in the bloody check-in queue at Heathrow) who, upon hearing I live in HK, started talking about how she refused to buy Chinese-made goods because of sweatshops etc. and she would only buy American. And even then I just pretty much said "OK, thanks for the information, bye."

But as I assume you're well-brought up and know how to behave, I wouldn't worry. :lol:

[G'day Mate]

That's nothing. I was having blood taken two days ago and the nurse guessed I was a cyclist and then started telling me all her gripes. "And do you know what I saw the other day??", followed by an anecdote about a cyclist doing nothing wrong, or in fact behaving in an entirely sensible manner. I get that ALL the time.

[Jason]

Yeah, I might be able to afford a foreign vacation in the next few years and I'm afraid to go to other countries because of how they'd view me. :(
Obama (I think) improved our image on the international stage. And now this Ahole is just burning all the good-will bridges.

Most people in developed countries understand that the ones who travel abroad are not the ones who vote Trump/Bush in, generally speaking.

[Yw-slayer]

That's nothing. I was having blood taken two days ago and the nurse guessed I was a cyclist and then started telling me all her gripes. "And do you know what I saw the other day??", followed by an anecdote about a cyclist doing nothing wrong, or in fact behaving in an entirely sensible manner. I get that ALL the time.

I hope you told her that the guy on the bike wasn't doing anything wrong!

[FaultyMario]

Sarcasm, dude.

[FaultyMario]

Most people in developed countries understand that the ones who travel abroad are not the ones who vote Trump/Bush in, generally speaking.

I saw plenty of middle-aged working class Americans in Cancún.

[tigeraid]

Eeeh.... I think there's a big difference between white middle-aged fat Americans who sit poolside stuffing their face for a week straight in Punta Cana, vs. relatively fit, well-spoken Americans backpacking through Spain. :p

[21Kid]

:up: Glad to hear my travel worries are ill-founded.


Which means they have no fucking idea how they'll accomplish this goal.:dingdingding:




Or are 'the fans' that ignorant of their own vast expanses of land?/nose.tap.

[21Kid]

Serious question: How is what's happening in South Dakota (http://bulletin.represent.us/south-dakota-gop-uses-emergency-powers-repeal-anti-corruption-act-passed-voters/) not considered Treason? Directly betraying the will of the people???

[MR2 Fan]

Serious question: How is what's happening in South Dakota (http://bulletin.represent.us/south-dakota-gop-uses-emergency-powers-repeal-anti-corruption-act-passed-voters/) not considered Treason? Directly betraying the will of the people???

It is, but who's going to stop them? It's like Nixon tried to say "If the President does it, it's not illegal"....they are acting the same way "If the government does it, it's not illegal" in their mind.

[Freude am Fahren]

How else are you going to fight anti-corruption laws than with corruption? :lol:


:smh:

[Cam]

:up: Glad to hear my travel worries are ill-founded.

If you heard Henry Rollins speak about travelling to different countries, you would know your worries are ill-founded. Look 'im up on your favourite video streaming service.

[MR2 Fan]

So in 1 week in Trump's Administration:

Blocked several Government agencies from reporting ANYTHING to do with Climate Change
Banned aid to countries that even mention the word Abortion in healthcare
Set plans to build a wall but not how to pay for it
Convinced the Doomsday Clock volunteers to move the theoretical doomsday closer than it's been since 1953
Forced the biggest protests in history, spanning all 7 continents
Had the chief strategist tell the media in general to shut the hell up
Had Trump's aides tell lies constantly and labeled them as "alternative facts"
Had all of the major staff in the State Department leave/resign/get fired abruptly yesterday....some with 40 years of experience in international issues
Will be posting crime statistics committed specifically by immigrants on a weekly basis
Threatened to bring federal troops to Chicago after seeing a TV opinion broadcast
Uses an un-secured Android phone and twitter for international "diplomacy"

at what point do we not call this Fascism?

[Phil_SS]

So in 1 week in Trump's Administration:
Banned aid to countries that even mention the word Abortion in healthcare


Not that I want to support Trump in any way but every Republican President since and including Reagan has written an Executive Order to withdraw from the Mexico City Policy on Jan 22nd, after they take office. The Democratic Presidents write an executive order to join the policy on Jan 22nd, after they take office..

It is a clear cut Democrat vs Republican action. Has nothing to do with Trump.

[21Kid]

If you heard Henry Rollins speak about travelling to different countries, you would know your worries are ill-founded. Look 'im up on your favourite video streaming service.

:up:

[The359]

So seven Muslim countries are barred from immigration, which obviously is disappointing yet predictable.

But the tidbit that really makes me shake my head is that the Muslim countries not banned are all ones that Trump has hotels in or business dealings with.

[Yw-slayer]

That proves that he's SMART because he only invests in the SAFE countries! Or something like that, which would be said by someone (probably him).

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

[drew]

That proves that he's SMART because he only invests in the SAFE countries! Or something like that, which would be said by someone (probably him).


Yep. Especially when all the 9/11 bombers were from the four countries NOT on his new list (Lebanon/UAE/Saudi Arabia, etc), and no terrorists in acts since were from any of the countries ON the list, including the 9/11 douches.

He's a strategic genius.

[Yw-slayer]

Totally! You guys are blessed! The Greatest Country in the World At the Greatest Time In The World led by The Greatest Leader of All Time! It's gonna be GREAT!!

[FaultyMario]

I am having trouble to understand the purpose of Slim's press conference yesterday.

Who was he talking to?

[MR2 Fan]

Yep. Especially when all the 9/11 bombers were from the four countries NOT on his new list (Lebanon/UAE/Saudi Arabia, etc), and no terrorists in acts since were from any of the countries ON the list, including the 9/11 douches.

He's a strategic genius.

yeah, and his strategy is so secretive as well...amazingly NO ONE figured it out yet (sarcasm)

I give him less than 1 month before he's somehow dismissed

[G'day Mate]

The White House posted this picture of Trump "... speaking with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull from the Oval Office". Is he trying to send us a subliminal message? (https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/825474979953246209)

2202

[sandydandy]

I was looking at that graph showing different media outlets, and where they rank on the spectrum, Liberal vs Conservative. Of course all these nutty alt-right sites are at the bottom right corner, (i.e. Breitbart).

I actually went to Infowars the other day and regretted it. Just had to see it for myself. It was horrid. Such a vile, wretched and despicable site. It's sad that many on the right have accepted places like that as normal sources of information, and mainstream news is 'fake' in their eyes.

Very strange times we're living in. Glad I'm in Canada.

[speedpimp]

If you don't like infowars, then I wouldn't evenn try checking out Stormfront.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://media.giphy.com/media/26gspXk1IaQEilbXi/giphy.gif

[tigeraid]

So these rumblings that a) foreigners visiting the US have no privacy rights and b) border security will start checking your facebook posts for your political leanings has me re-thinking going to Detroit next month for Motorama. Or, like, ever again. :smh:

[MR2 Fan]

oh it gets better (worse), now Bannon has even MORE power

http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-signs-order-to-revamp-national-security-council-1485641329

[Sad, little man]

I'll tell you what... Trump has no clue what he's up against when he's started angering the public in the time of social media. A few hours ago someone made an event for a protest tomorrow at the Detroit airport against Trump's muslim ban. I've watched it steadily grow from less than 100 people attending to 1400 people attending, and 10,000 people invited. This was a protest that was conceived a matter of hours ago.

This is unpresidented.

[TheBenior]

I'll tell you what... Trump has no clue what he's up against when he's started angering the public in the time of social media.
Well, I'm pretty sure that he's just winging it 99% of the time.

[MR2 Fan]

This is looking more and more like a Bannon takeover of the highest access and Trump as his pawn....very bad days ahead unless other congressmen/supreme court start doing something!!

[sandydandy]

If you don't like infowars, then I wouldn't evenn try checking out Stormfront. Yeah I think I'll pass on that, me bruv.

[The359]

This is looking more and more like a Bannon takeover of the highest access and Trump as his pawn....very bad days ahead unless other congressmen/supreme court start doing something!!

You mean the Supreme Court he's about to control?

[mk]

It seems that we are heading to quite hilarious spring.

[neanderthal]

Boycott anything and everything Trump. Simple as.

Congrats again Trumpanzees. Do you see what you have wrought?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'll tell you what... Trump has no clue what he's up against when he's started angering the public in the time of social media. A few hours ago someone made an event for a protest tomorrow at the Detroit airport against Trump's muslim ban. I've watched it steadily grow from less than 100 people attending to 1400 people attending, and 10,000 people invited. This was a protest that was conceived a matter of hours ago.

This is unpresidented.

Normally I'd agree, but if this guy can manage to surviving grabbing pussies...

For sure he's unpresidential and unprecedented.

[Sad, little man]

Aaaaand the protest is now up to 2000 people going, and it was created less than 24 hours ago.

Shit's gon' get craaaaazy. :D

[Freude am Fahren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESoB5iVAq_4&ab_channel=John14%3A6

(WA Governor, Jay Inslee)

[Freude am Fahren]

I have not double checked the exact numbers numbers, but it's at least mostly correct, not just another meme. (Note, does not include soldiers killed abroad, clearly, maybe citizens as well. Probably should say on American soil or by terrorism)

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16388311_1674514775892827_7595759244402159172_n.jp g?oh=dd83c6323d9c0aa7183c76c068c4544a&oe=5917BD81

(ETA: Actually, the post on facebook cited a source! :up: https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/terrorism-immigration-risk-analysis)

[samoht]

The Muslim ban is bad in many ways, but the way it's been applied is probably the worst aspect.

People who had all their documents in order, jumped through all the hoops, were on a plane in mid-air when Trump made them illegal with a stroke of a pen, arrived to be detained in immigration. Some of them have lives, jobs, families in the US and were returning from work or holiday travel.

Trump didn't take any advice, didn't consider the consequences for people's lives, just acted impulsively on gut instinct. This doesn't bode well for when he turns his attention to healthcare.


I work in IT, people come from all over, we don't care as long as they are smart and work well with others. We have an office in London and one in New York. People travel all the time for meetings, getting face time together is important when trying to collaborate and empathise with people in another time zone.

At least one of my colleagues here in London is now banned from our NY office. Given the sudden, arbitrary way this has been done, it's hard for many others to feel confident in getting on a plane.

And we're a minnow compared to the big IT companies.

This is not good for business.

(I mean, it's not good in many ways, but being business friendly was meant to be Trump's strong point)

[TheBenior]

I have not double checked the exact numbers numbers, but it's at least mostly correct, not just another meme. (Note, does not include soldiers killed abroad, clearly, maybe citizens as well. Probably should say on American soil or by terrorism)

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16388311_1674514775892827_7595759244402159172_n.jp g?oh=dd83c6323d9c0aa7183c76c068c4544a&oe=5917BD81

(ETA: Actually, the post on facebook cited a source! :up: https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/terrorism-immigration-risk-analysis)

They're definitely only counting on American soil for the Libya number to be zero instead of at least 189 (Pan Am Flight 103, anyone?).

So fuck whoever created that list for obfuscation.

[IMOA]

(I mean, it's not good in many ways, but being business friendly was meant to be Trump's strong point)

Just fwiw, Trump has never looked good for business, in fact he's the exact opposite of what business want from government. I think this was known pretty well before the election and once he got in the hope was that he'd settle down which sadly has proven not to happen. Once Trump got voted in we postponed our plans to set up an office in Philly and instead are opening an office in Mexico. Between changing rules on the fly, not thinking things even slightly through and taking delight in threatening large companies in a manner fitting of a street thug he's going to drive the US into recession as business battens the hatches and decides to simply wait the next 4 years out.


They're definitely only counting on American soil for the Libya number to be zero instead of at least 189 (Pan Am Flight 103, anyone?).

So fuck whoever created that list for obfuscation.

I disagree. The ban doesn't affect anything happening outside the US so I'm not sure why you'd include it. If you're trying to pick the countries to stop coming to the US then it makes sense to focus on the things done by those people in the US.

[TheBenior]

If the list specifically said, "on American soil," it would be correct. Since they didn't, it is not correct.

When dealing with somebody like Trump who makes things up on the fly, it's important to not stoop to his level. I'm not going to excuse willful obfuscation just because it's in opposition to something I'm also in opposition of.

[Freude am Fahren]

That's why I made sure to add my note.

[mk]

Mo Farah is a Brit from Somalia.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I have not double checked the exact numbers numbers, but it's at least mostly correct, not just another meme. (Note, does not include soldiers killed abroad, clearly, maybe citizens as well. Probably should say on American soil or by terrorism)

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16388311_1674514775892827_7595759244402159172_n.jp g?oh=dd83c6323d9c0aa7183c76c068c4544a&oe=5917BD81

(ETA: Actually, the post on facebook cited a source! :up: https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/terrorism-immigration-risk-analysis)

This is clearly not a Muslim ban then..., plus there are also more Muslim nations than these.

Of course whatever it's called, not really sure what good does it do.

[Tom Servo]

Trump supporters right now.

http://i.imgur.com/3hFWssq.jpg

[novicius]

Absolutely. :smh:

[FaultyMario]

Besides the outrage, what do you think are going to be the effects on human capital influx of the silly anti-xyz inmigration policies?

I was reading the story about the Saudi girl with the Sudanese passport who wasn't able to get back to the Cleveland Clinic before the ban or after the judge's suspension.

I mean, that was a grade A professional being denied, I wonder if other highly desirable aspirants would be looking elsewhere for further training.

[Tom Servo]

There was also someone who I believe was Iranian who was coming here to do diabetes research at Harvard.

[Freude am Fahren]

“I left Iran because of this,” a woman said, “and now I’m here, after 30 years. I feel like, you know, deja vu.”

[MR2 Fan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3YZpFKUcAAb8Ul.jpg:large

[Sad, little man]

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2205&d=1485799716

2205

[Freude am Fahren]

That's a good one.

[Sad, little man]

Would be funny if it weren't so horrifically true.

[21Kid]

Petition: Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom. (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/171928)

1,453,670 signatures

[IMOA]

Besides the outrage, what do you think are going to be the effects on human capital influx of the silly anti-xyz inmigration policies?

I was reading the story about the Saudi girl with the Sudanese passport who wasn't able to get back to the Cleveland Clinic before the ban or after the judge's suspension.

I mean, that was a grade A professional being denied, I wonder if other highly desirable aspirants would be looking elsewhere for further training.

Sir Mo Farah was caught up in it but they're reporting that he's been told he can return to his family in Portland now. Google had around 100 employees affected and some are believed to be out of the country, lots of tech firms will be in the same position. Within my broad circle of business associates I know some Iranians, generally they were a few years old when the revolution hit and their families ran, who are affected. One was meant to be flying to the US tomorrow for business. Australian citizens, never held an Iranian passport/don't consider themselves Iranian citizens but because they were born in a country which would arrest them if they ever returned they're muslim terrorists.

Upside, in 50 years time when historians are looking for the date when the American century finished and the asian century started they will point at the inauguration of Trump. Thats a deadly serious statement if anyone is wondering.

[Kchrpm]

Upside, in 50 years time when historians are looking for the date when the American century finished and the asian century started they will point at the inauguration of Trump. Thats a deadly serious statement if anyone is wondering.

Unless we can make some drastic recovery, this makes a ton of sense to me as well.

[samoht]

Petition: Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom. (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/171928)

1,453,670 signatures

Indeed. Also, protests http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38800337 and debate in Parliament http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-38794587

[drew]

So, Trump just "relieved" attorney general Sally Yates for her "betrayal" of his EO on the immigrant ban.


What...the...fuck.


Seriously, is this shit for real?

First he cleans out all the State Dept people, leaving a void of knowledge/experience/SANITY, then he outs the AG because she "betrayed" him.

[Yw-slayer]

Upside, in 50 years time when historians are looking for the date when the American century finished and the asian century started they will point at the inauguration of Trump. Thats a deadly serious statement if anyone is wondering.

It was already on its way out, but this is just a really obvious indication.

[Yw-slayer]

At least it's business as usual too see that the most signatures in the UK come from Corbyn and Abbott's constituencies.

[MR2 Fan]

So, Trump just "relieved" attorney general Sally Yates for her "betrayal" of his EO on the immigrant ban.


What...the...fuck.


Seriously, is this shit for real?

First he cleans out all the State Dept people, leaving a void of knowledge/experience/SANITY, then he outs the AG because she "betrayed" him.

I love our "checks and balances" system...I just wish I could understand why its not working as well as it should.

BUT WAIT he just fired the head of immigration too!

[Rikadyn]

Monday Night Massacre

[G'day Mate]

:popcorn:

[Tom Servo]

FBI Uncovers Al-Qaeda Plot To Just Sit Back And Enjoy Collapse Of United States

http://www.theonion.com/article/fbi-uncovers-al-qaeda-plot-to-just-sit-back-and-en-35788

[drew]

Exactly.

[Sad, little man]

Not quite... They've worked very hard, especially on and since 9/11, to instill fear and distrust in all of us, and now it's finally rooted deeply enough in us to start really weakening us as a country. It was a long game, but it's starting to really pay off for them.

[Freude am Fahren]

So the H-1B visa minimum wage will go up to $130k vs. the current $65k?

This would be great if our school system wasn't going to complete shit. And it's only going to get worse in the coming years with DeVos in there scuttling it.

[Jason]

They are purposefully doing everything they can to curtail upward mobility. Only the rich deserve to be educated and happy, only the rich deserve opportunities for well paying jobs.

[balki]

The current H-1B minimum wage is $60,000, which in 1989, was about $120k now :|

[21Kid]

Income has doubled since 1989?

[21Kid]

heh.

Video shows Jeff Sessions pressing Sally Yates to defend the Constitution against president’s ‘unlawful’ views (http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/31/politics/sally-yates-jeff-sessions-deputy-attorney-general-hearing/index.html?sr=twpol013117sally-yates-jeff-sessions-deputy-attorney-general-hearing1148AMVODtopLink&linkId=33958841)


"You have to watch out because people will be asking you to do things and you need to say no. You think the attorney general has the responsibility to say no to the President if he asks for something that's improper?" Sessions asks Yates.
"A lot of people have defended the Lynch nomination, for example by saying, 'Well, he appoints somebody who's going to execute his views, what's wrong with that?' " the GOP senator from Alabama asks, referring to Obama's 2014 nomination of Loretta Lynch as attorney general.
"But if the views the President wants to execute are unlawful, should the attorney general or the deputy attorney general say no?"
Yates replies: "Senator, I believe the attorney general or the deputy attorney general has an obligation to follow the law and the Constitution and to give their independent legal advice to the President."

[Fogelhund]

It would appear as though anti-LGBT legislation is next on the docket.

[drew]

Soon to be The Whited Straights of America.

[Freude am Fahren]

Well, it was a mostly good run. I look forward to the American Spring and Civil War II.

[Fogelhund]

Soon to be The Whited Straights of America.

How far back shall they go? Segregated schools? Workplace discrimination based on gender? Take away anything not white, not male, not straight, right to vote?

[drew]

Sky's the limit at this point. As long as the GOP is doing NOTHING to keep him (Bannon, not Trump) in check, this shit will continue to get worse, domestically and internationally. I'm afraid nothing will be done until it's to the point that it's so irrevocably fucked, that it's going to take decades, if ever, to get back to where we were two weeks ago.

Jan 20, the day that the new world order started.

There's nothing pretty about the writing on the wall with this shit.

[21Kid]

Scary... :o

2207

[novicius]

How far back shall they go? Segregated schools? Workplace discrimination based on gender? Take away anything not white, not male, not straight, right to vote?
Not quite that far. :lol:

It's just the end of Multiculturalism and the true dawning of the American "Melting Pot". You can be any race you want as long as your culture is quiet Western/American.

For the majority of our kids, it's study hard (at increasingly inferior schools). Be outstanding (in tests, arts & athletics while going increasingly hungry). Speak impeccable (American) English. #shrug

[MR2 Fan]

Sky's the limit at this point. As long as the GOP is doing NOTHING to keep him (Bannon, not Trump) in check, this shit will continue to get worse, domestically and internationally. I'm afraid nothing will be done until it's to the point that it's so irrevocably fucked, that it's going to take decades, if ever, to get back to where we were two weeks ago.

Jan 20, the day that the new world order started.

There's nothing pretty about the writing on the wall with this shit.

I agree for the most part...then again, what it has done is to mobilize liberals, progressives and reasonable people to actually DO SOMETHING for once instead of be lazy and apathetic (generally speaking).

So instead of having a very slow road to the end of the dream of America, we're getting a massive shock to the system and a wake-up call. In the end, it may be a good thing....the whole hitting rock bottom before we can wake up and actually fight back.

What can be done? Enough of protests may convince the GOP to do something, OR, enough to start recalling the congressmen who won't get rid of Trump and his manipulators

[balki]

Income has doubled since 1989?
govt inflation calculator says $60k in 1989 is like $116k in 2016 (no 2017 numbers yet, will only be slightly higher).
Original MSRP 1989 Chevrolet Camaro $11,495.00 (2dr Coupe IROC Z $14,145.00 and Mustang V8 started even lower), so yeah, income has just about doubled in nearly 30 years

ps; Minimum Wage in 1989 was $3.35 (less then half of the current $7.25)

[FaultyMario]

Why do mainstream news not call Bannon a white supremacist?

[Kchrpm]

Because he doesn't openly call himself one, he just shares and acts on many of their viewpoints.

[FaultyMario]

They're afraid of civil suits?

[21Kid]

If you heard Henry Rollins speak about travelling to different countries, you would know your worries are ill-founded. Look 'im up on your favourite video streaming service.
I just found he was on the Joe Rogan podcast, talking about the same thing.

[Freude am Fahren]

Trumps voter fraud "expert" registered to vote in three states. (https://apnews.com/80497cfb5f054c9b8c9e0f8f5ca30a62)

Of course it wouldn't be a big deal, even the two states he no longer lives in show is status as "suspended" or "inactive", except this is a major part of the basis for Trumps claims of illegal voting.

[drew]

He's not Mexican, so it's a moot point...

[SportWagon]

Wouldn't the votes of any fraudulent voters likely be distributed between the two candidates, anyway?

[G'day Mate]

That would be like the crowd cheering "fair call umpire" when a free kick is awarded against the home team.

[The359]

Wouldn't the votes of any fraudulent voters likely be distributed between the two candidates, anyway?

Considering the only confirmed attempt at voter fraud so far, a woman in Arizona who attempted to vote for Trump twice, I'd say yes.

[IMOA]

Why are you guys upset about the changes to the h1-B visa, they do make sense to me. All having it as low as 60k is doing is stripping your skilled workers of jobs, if someone is really good and worth learning from they'll be on a lot more than 60k and it's not like the US economy needs a big influx of trained workers to help upskill them. It's not good for business as it removes a source of cheap labour but overall for the country I'd think it's a win. Maybe 130k is a bit high but 60k is real low, thats basically graduate level developer in aus.

[TheBenior]

Why are you guys upset about the changes to the h1-B visa, they do make sense to me. All having it as low as 60k is doing is stripping your skilled workers of jobs, if someone is really good and worth learning from they'll be on a lot more than 60k and it's not like the US economy needs a big influx of trained workers to help upskill them. It's not good for business as it removes a source of cheap labour but overall for the country I'd think it's a win. Maybe 130k is a bit high but 60k is real low, thats basically graduate level developer in aus.

That's how I feel about it.

Whenever I hear employers in X industry complain that they 'can't find enough skilled workers,' I ask, has employee compensation increased? If it hasn't, they're just whining about not being willing/able to pay what the market will bear.

[Tom Servo]

I admittedly am basing this on how the industry was when I got into it, so that's damn near 20 years ago and probably not so relevant. Every recruiter I talked to preferred to hire citizens because it was so much easier, dealing with the H1-B visas, I'm told, was a huge pain in the ass. We had a lot of H1-B people because we couldn't find enough competent citizens to fill all the available jobs. This seems like it would hurt our industry because that's often still the case, especially at some of the bigger firms, and $130K is pretty high, even for this neck of the woods. It would make it harder to find people to fill the jobs we have open.

For reference in competency, when I first started interviewing people my boss told me to just give them the FizzBuzz problem. It's a pretty simple programming one. Given a set of numbers, print "fizz" if the number is divisible by 3, "buzz" if it's divisible by 5, "fizzbuzz" if it's divisible by both 3 and 5, otherwise just print the number itself. Felt almost insulting to ask that question to people I assumed were competent programmers based on their resumes, only to find out a shocking number of candidates couldn't do it. For those of you that aren't programmers, that'd likely show up on a quiz in your first year, maybe first semester, of programming classes.

I won't affect me where I'm at as we have a pretty small programming staff (me) and no open reqs but I bet big Java shops like financial institutions will find it a lot harder to fill mid-level positions.

[Taimar]

It was already on its way out, but this is just a really obvious indication.

Though I'm a bit sad to admit it, I quite agree.

"Conservative Americans" have dealt us two nearly mortal blows in 16 years, and they've damaged our institutions almost beyond repair. Institutions which, for lack of better words, were atrophied from age, ignorance, and civic neglect.

We are likely, in this country, to spend the rest of our lives picking up the pieces.

[G'day Mate]

Neil Gorsuch?

[Freude am Fahren]

To be clear, I wasn't being sarcastic or anything, I really think it's a good thing, but they're counteracting it by destroying education by appointing DeVos.

[Jason]

The minimum pay requirements for visas is just another way to discourage immigration. But on the other hand, it does help people here get jobs. In a way.

That being said, considering what we're doing with education, I don't really know how it's going to work out. Only rich Americans can get the required education for well paying jobs. And there's only so many rich Americans.

[JoshInKC]

It's not only rich Americans who can get the required education. Don't forget that we have programs in place to sell the not-rich Americans into debt slavery in exchange for education.

[novicius]

In Trump's America, the college connections are worth more than the piece of paper these days. #friendsofnepotism

[Crazed_Insanity]

Flew back into LAX last night after my vacation..., saw a relatively small, but quite energetic(loud) crowd chanting and protesting against Trump. It was very nice to have such a crown welcoming us back, but in all honesty we were too tired to care...

I think in the future, people should just protest in front of Trump towers and hotels and casinos in the future. Probably will be more effective if you interrupt 'his' cash flow.

[Freude am Fahren]

Exactly.

I don't want to turn everyone away that wants to come here, but why would we want to encourage immigration?

(In response to Jason, missed new page)

Anyway, there's supposed to be a march in West Palm Beach towards his Mar-a-Lago vacation home on Saturday. I might go.

[Jason]

It's not only rich Americans who can get the required education. Don't forget that we have programs in place to sell the not-rich Americans into debt slavery in exchange for education.

To be fair, my commentary is based on upward mobility, which I didn't communicate very well. Loading people up with debt early in their life significantly hurts their chances of upward mobility, even with a decent job.

[Jason]

Exactly.

I don't want to turn everyone away that wants to come here, but why would we want to encourage immigration?

(In response to Jason, missed new page)

Anyway, there's supposed to be a march in West Palm Beach towards his Mar-a-Lago vacation home on Saturday. I might go.

Personally I encourage improving people's lives. Generally that's the reason why people come here. I don't think being born here makes one any better/more important than someone born elsewhere.

[Tom Servo]

Donald Trump on Frederick Douglass:


[Frederick Douglass is] someone who has done a terrific job that is being recognized by more and more people."

[21Kid]

:twitch:

[Tom Servo]

Oh god, even better. Here's the transcript of his speech in honor of Black History Month. (I'm transcribing this from an image of the text, so there may be typos)



Well the election, it came out really well. Next time we'll triple the number or quadruple it. We want to get it over 51, right. At least 51.

Well, this is black history month, so this is our little breakfast, our little get-together. And just a few notes. During this month, we honor the tremendous history of the African-Americans throughout our country. Throughout the world, if you really think about it, right. And their story is one of unimaginable sacrifice, hard work, and faith in America. I've gotten a real glimpse during the campaign; I'd go around with Ben to a lot of places that I wasn't so familiar with. They're incredible people. And I want to thank Ben Carson, who's going to be heading up HUD, and it's a big job, and it's a job that's not only housing, it's mind and spirit, right? And you understand that. Nobody's going to be better than Ben.

Last month we celebrated the life of Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. whose incredible example is unique in American history. You read all about Dr. Martin Luther King a week ago when somebody said I took the statue out of my office. And it turned out that that was fake news. The statue is cherished. It's one of the favorite things -- and we have some good ones. We have Lincoln, we have Jefferson, and we have Dr. Martin Luther King. And we have other. But they said the statue, the bust, of Dr. Martin Luther King was taken out of the office. And it was never even touched. So I think it was a disgrace, but that's the way the press is. It's very unfortunate.

I am very proud now that we have a museum, National Mall, where people can learn about Reverend King, so many other things, Frederick Doug -- Douglass is an example of somebody who's done an amazing job that is being recognized more and more, I notice. Harriet Tubman, Rosa Parks, and millions more black Americans who made Americans what it is today. Big impact. I'm proud to honor this heritage and will be honoring it more and more.

Folks at the table, in almost all cases, have been great friends and supporters. And Darrell, I meet Darrell when he was defending me on television. And the people that were on the other side of the argument didn't have a chance, right? And Paris has done an amazing job in a very hostile CNN community, he's all by himself. Seven people and Paris. I'll take Paris over the seven. But I don't watch CNN, so I don't get to see you as much. I don't like watching fake news. But Fox has treated me very nice, wherever Fox is, thank you. We're going to need better schools, and we need 'em soon. We need more jobs, we need better wages, a lot better wages. We're going to work very hard on the inner city. Ben's going to be doing that, big league, that's one of his big things that we're going to be looking at. We need safer communities and we're going to do that with law enforcement. We're going to make it safe. We're going to make it much better than it is right now. Right now it's terrible.

I saw you talking about it the other night, Paris, on something else that was really -- you did a fantastic job the other night on a very unrelated show. I'm ready to do my part, and I will say this, we're going to work together. This is a great group, this is a group that's been so special to me, you really helped me a lot. If you remember, I wasn't going to do well with the African-American community, and after they heard me speaking and talking about the inner city and lots of other things, we ended up getting, I won't go into details, but we ended up getting substantially more than other candidates who had run in the past years. And now we're going to take that to new levels. I want to thank my television star over here -- Omarosa's actually a very nice person. Nobody knows that. I don't want to destroy her reputation. She is a very good person and she's been helpful right from the beginning with the campaign and I appreciate it, I really do. Very special. So I want to thank everybody for being here.


This is as posted by Daniel Dale, the Washington correspondent for the Toronto Star.

EDIT: Just wanted to add Matt Oswalt's joke on Twitter about it: "Trump's Black History Month speech sounds like if Chevy Chase from Fletch wandered onto stage by accident while being chased by cops"

[Kchrpm]

Nothing of substance in a positive or negative way, other than making sure to talk shit about CNN.

[21Kid]

Geez, is Sarah Palin his speech writer?
https://eatprayvote.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/word-salad.jpeg

[Tom Servo]

Nothing of substance in a positive or negative way, other than making sure to talk shit about CNN.

I'm just amazed that in a Black History Month speech, the only thing he could think to say about MLK was how unfair it is that there's a rumor that he moved his bust. Nothing about MLK himself or anything he did. He made it entirely about himself and how put upon he is.

[Kchrpm]

But you know, in his mind, he nailed it.

1) Made it clear I did nothing wrong
2) Complimented safe historic black people
3) Told them all their shit sucks and my one black friend will fix it

WHAT MORE COULD THEY WANT?!

[drew]

Black History month, so, let's call out CNN for being "fake news" (again).

Trump's speeches and articulation make GW look like Obama.

[21Kid]

But Fox has treated me very nice, wherever Fox is, thank you. We're going to need better schools, and we need 'em soon. We need more jobs, we need better wages, a lot better wages. We're going to work very hard on the inner city. Ben's going to be doing that, big league, that's one of his big things that we're going to be looking at. We need safer communities and we're going to do that with law enforcement.
This part really stood out to me. Not sure how this would work... :erm: Does he have any clue what HUD does? It's only housing. :erm: He does know that, right?

https://www.hud.gov/
Oversees home ownership, low-income housing assistance, fair housing laws, homelessness, aid for distressed neighborhoods, and housing development...

[novicius]

He doesn't care too much. If Carson is uniquely terrible at the gig then he'll be replaced. #shrug

Came across this quote on WaPo comments:


Republicans won a lot of elections. Republican President. Republican control of both the House and Senate. 34 Republican governorships out of 50. Republicans won 958 state legislative seats that had been filled by Democrats. Once Trump gets his new Conservative Justices on the Supreme Court they will block all LWNJ crazy ideas for at least the next 15 to 20 years. Neil Gorsuch is only 49 and in great health. He may be on the Supreme court for 30 years or more. It is over for Democrats.
Pretty much the truth. The U.S. is, by its own People, a one-party political system and has been for quite some time. #adapt #murica

[21Kid]

I for one, welcome our new overlords. :lol:




:(

[novicius]

I am literally a Trump bumper sticker & Rebel Flag license plate frame away from blending in. :lol:

[Tom Servo]

Well, after he told Nieto that if he didn't take care of the drug cartel's "bad hombres" that we might just send our military down there to invade Mexico, he then went on to swap between regaling Australian prime minister Malcolm Turnbull with tales of how YUGE his victory was and moaning at him about how he didn't want to honor the agreement to take in 1,250 refugees from offshore Australian detention centers. Then he cut the call off at 25 minutes when he decided he didn't want to talk to him anymore.

FFS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/no-gday-mate-on-call-with-australian-pm-trump-badgers-and-brags/2017/02/01/88a3bfb0-e8bf-11e6-80c2-30e57e57e05d_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.d362d2a6cd6d

[drew]

This is exactly the concern I've expressed repeatedly.

Pence will no doubt fuck with civil freedoms and rights, with the GOP marching behind him. That's a given.

It's THIS shit with Trump, and burning bridges with long time allies, for no fucking reason at all, other than narcissism and ego.

Seriously, this fucker has to go.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Came across this quote on WaPo comments:


Pretty much the truth. The U.S. is, by its own People, a one-party political system and has been for quite some time. #adapt #murica

Remember Hillary won the popular vote, assuming Trump is wrong about voter fraud...

US is definitely not a one party nation like communist Gina!

It just that the DNC is either too dumb or too arrogant about what the American people want.

[Yw-slayer]

:lol:

[FaultyMario]

“When I ran for president, I had to leave the show. That's when I knew for sure I was doing it. And they hired a big, big movie star, Arnold Schwarzenegger, to take pace my place, and we know how that turned out,” Trump said. “The ratings went right down the tubes. It's been a total disaster. And Mark will never, ever bet against Trump again, and I want to just pray for Arnold, if we can, for those ratings, okay?”

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-national-prayer-breakfast-arnold-schwarzenegger-234535

and, the response (https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/827169996866347008).

[drew]

Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy.

[mk]

Still not sure he's not trying to get booted.

[MR2 Fan]

some russian sanctions already lifted....can't wait to see what happens next!

[21Kid]

What the Johnson Amendment is: It’s named for Lyndon B. Johnson, who introduced it in the Senate in 1954, nine years before he became president. It bans all tax-exempt nonprofits — which includes churches and other houses of worship, as well as charities — from “directly or indirectly” participating in any political candidate’s campaign.

What Trump has against it: Trump presents this ban on participating in politicking as a restriction on the freedom of faith groups to put their religion in action, if their religion calls on them to campaign for a candidate. At Thursday’s prayer breakfast, Trump said that his reason for opposing the Johnson Amendment is that it impinges on the American “right to worship according to our own beliefs” — apparently describing campaign participation as a form of worship.JMFC-:mad:
He better be removing their tax exempt status too then.

[MR2 Fan]

JMFC-:mad:
He better be removing their tax exempt status too then.

but campaign participation IS a form of worship to God AKA TRUMP

[novicius]

Why do we have atoms? Because atomic matter is more stable than the primordial broth. Atoms defeated the broth. That was the first war. There were two ways to be and one of them won. And everything that came next was made of atoms.
They won.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Johnson Amendment wasn't put in place just by executive order.

Even if Trump successfully amended that amendment, and if it turns out badly, people can still amend the Trump Amendment.

There are plenty of churches who also agree that it's bad to mix politics and religion. I'm pretty sure my pastor would not endorse any politicians nor will he take money intended for worshipping God and give them to earthly politicians.

Anyway, this is how Trump boosts his "ratings". You guys really should stop reading the news... or try to just ignore his BS talks.

Ignoring him reduces his 'ratings' and it'll be beneficial to your health too.

[Kchrpm]

No, Billi. We have to pay attention to what he's doing, stay informed, and know that we don't just dislike him, we dislike what he's doing to our country and to our people. This isn't blind hate, this is reasoned worry and fear.

[MR2 Fan]

Johnson Amendment wasn't put in place just by executive order.

you should tell Trump that, apparently he thinks everything is done by executive order and congress doesn't mean anything (nor do anything!), so he's basically running things as a dictator.

[21Kid]

yup. :down:

[Tom Servo]

Overturning that order would pretty much make certain churches the new SuperPACs. Suddenly any church can advocate and spend money to support a candidate. People can donate to that church as a charitable donation, getting a tax break. Church doesn't have to pay *any* taxes on it nor do they have to disclose who donated or how much. Completely opaque way to funnel money to candidates with absolutely no regulations around it.

I agree that most churches probably wouldn't be on board, but you think Jerry Falwell Jr. might like some of that cash flow?

[Crazed_Insanity]

No, Billi. We have to pay attention to what he's doing, stay informed, and know that we don't just dislike him, we dislike what he's doing to our country and to our people. This isn't blind hate, this is reasoned worry and fear.

Some things he can do by executive order, but a lot of things he just cannot do just because he said so. Just like the wall he said he's going to build.

Yes, I can agree that we should stay informed, but if it's going to piss you off and there's really nothing you can do to counter it... other than you go march around blocking traffic in some protests..., then we might as well just let it go and move on. In order for these protests to work is if we have way more than 52% of the population against it. For most of us, our congressmen are already onboard to not cooperate with Trump... so we can't even call congress up about our frustration...

If you can think of something constructive to do when you're 'informed' of Trump's BS, by all means do it.

If all you can do is just sit there and fume, then fuck that. Do what Elsa does... and just let it go.

I believe all the Trump negative publicity will still help him..., and his fan boys will love seeing you guys suffer just by Trump saying a few things.

IMHO, fuck that shit.

Ignoring him is the best thing we can do to help this country. Whatever you say, whatever you tweet, we don't give a fuck... and other than executive orders, you will not be able to get your way.

Anyway, I still have faith that he won't single handedly destroy america. I don't believe he can make America great again, but I'd be glad to be wrong.

[MR2 Fan]

Anyway, I still have faith that he won't single handedly destroy america.

no, he's got Bannon and Putin to help

[Rikadyn]

https://crimethinc.com/2017/01/26/this-is-not-a-dialogue-not-just-free-speech-but-freedom-itself

[JoshInKC]

https://crimethinc.com/2017/01/26/this-is-not-a-dialogue-not-just-free-speech-but-freedom-itself

Good piece. Bash the fasc.

[TheBenior]

https://crimethinc.com/2017/01/26/this-is-not-a-dialogue-not-just-free-speech-but-freedom-itself

Fuck these assholes. They did plenty to discredit the Occupy Wall Street movement because of their fantasy ideology that will never exist in the real world. Anarcho-Communist, Anarcho-Syndicalist, Anarcho-Capitalist, whatever. If 'Anarcho' is in the name, it's nonsense.

It's all bullshit and most of the participants engaging in blac bloc terrorism are just white, middle-class pussies who fold when anybody offers resistance. Then they start crying for the police to help them. Look at the guy who punched Richard Spencer. He couldn't even lay the douche out with a running sucker punch.

[Kchrpm]

Billi -
What we can do is continue to point out what he's doing, that it's wrong, that he's lying, and motivate people to vote accordingly in midterm elections. To get Republicans nervous about blindly supporting him. I'm not saying to give yourself a heart attack, but ffs people get wrapped up in what characters on a TV show are going to do and tweet/post/talk about it, we can do the same thing about our country!

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think it's more than obvious some of the things Trumps saying that he will do is BS or just plain wrong. Liberals are all onboard already. centrists are mostly all onboard too. I'm sure even a lot of the conservatives are getting ready to say amen too, except the liberals have no attractive alternatives to offer these people.

Just like you guys willing to settle with Hillary, they're willing to settle with Trump. Obama had a chance in the past 8 years to do something for those middle class white folks. Granted I'm not sure what could he have done... Obamacare really should help those folks out too, but I guess global trade really just wasn't working well.

This trend of protectionism is not just a US electoral college fail, but a global phenomenon. People are understandably upset.

I just wish Bernie were the one actually dealing with this issue than Trump. Hillary for sure won't even deal with it if elected. She believes we'll be stronger together, but we just all have to be together with her, if you're left behind, too bad...

Anyway, I honestly believe all the angry protests not only is a time waster, but it also helps pump up his 'ratings'.

We can only hope DNC learned something last November and is now strategizing how to win back congress and the White House.

[Taimar]

I think it's more than obvious some of the things Trumps saying that he will do is BS or just plain wrong. Liberals are all onboard already. centrists are mostly all onboard too. I'm sure even a lot of the conservatives are getting ready to say amen too, except the liberals have no attractive alternatives to offer these people.

Just like you guys willing to settle with Hillary, they're willing to settle with Trump.

Uh, no. If literally the largest protests in the history of the country didn't clue you in, most liberals are not only not "on board," the majority of the country is not "on board."

And just about the worst thing we could do is tune out and ignore the problem.

Patriotic Americans don't sit back and watch TV when their democracy and nation are threatened.


I guess global trade really just wasn't working well.

We could go into great detail about how little you understand global trade, but would that really be worth my time?

[Tom Servo]

Apparently Kellyanne Conway is going on TV talking about how the ban is justified because two Iraqi refugees carried out the "Bowling Green Massacre". Which, as far as anybody can tell, doesn't exist.

THEY ARE LITERALLY MAKING UP EVENTS AND BLAMING MUSLIMS FOR THEM!

[drew]

Not to mention the ban worked to thwart something that happened 4 FUCKING YEARS AGO.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Uh, no. If literally the largest protests in the history of the country didn't clue you in, most liberals are not only not "on board," the majority of the country is not "on board."

And just about the worst thing we could do is tune out and ignore the problem.

Patriotic Americans don't sit back and watch TV when their democracy and nation are threatened.



We could go into great detail about how little you understand global trade, but would that really be worth my time?

This is exactly the problem with you intellectual liberal type. We are stronger together, and you need to get together with the program dumbasses, trust us, you are too dumb to fully understand anyway and not to mention the basket of deplorables... Who gives a fuck about them? Wish they can all just vanish out of thin air...

Global trade aside, since it's too difficult for me to grasp, what did you mean most liberals were not onboard? Hillarys 52% popular vote was really fraudulent? Most liberals actually voted for Trump? Largest protest in the history of the nation didn't include most liberals? Can you explain what you're talking about because my little brain is really confused. Anyway, if I'm not worthy of your time, I understand.

If there's something a patriotic American can do, I'm certainly not against it.

My vote wouldn't make a difference, but I voted my voice a crossed.

I may join a protest later when Trump actually pulled off amending the constitution in a wrong way, but even that is an exercise in futility imho. Maximum damage he can do is 8 years. If DNC cannot figure out a way to win the White House back, I'd be more upset at the DNC than Trump.

[balki]

He could get us into a prolonged overseas military operation [(?) the US hasn't declared war since WWII] this year and get impeached. That damage will extend well past his time in office.
More likely to happen; continued lack of diplomacy. Foreign countries will be less and less willing to make deals with us (we still export things, and do need to keep importing). The 1% can move to Monaco and the 99% will be stuck in whatever shit we're left with.

As long as other countries just see him as all bark and no bite most of the damage done will be reversible fairly quickly after he leaves office..

[Taimar]

This is exactly the problem with you intellectual liberal type. We are stronger together, and you need to get together with the program dumbasses, trust us, you are too dumb to fully understand anyway and not to mention the basket of deplorables... Who gives a fuck about them? Wish they can all just vanish out of thin air...

You literally just said that everybody's on board and nobody minds what is happening. "Just like you guys willing to settle with Hillary, they're willing to settle with Trump."

Or maybe I've misunderstood what you're saying? You're never very clear.


Who gives a fuck about them? Wish they can all just vanish out of thin air...

Every time somebody I know would say "What the hell is wrong with these rural dumbasses?" during this election cycle, I'd try to explain why they should be listened to - although it got harder and harder when the neo-nazi, neo-fascist stuff kept happening. They have not been included in the prosperity generated in the last eight years.

But at the same time, they also rail against lots of things that would help them, and they decry the fact that the government doesn't care about them but consistently vote for candidates who slash taxes, eliminated earmarks (which were traditionally used to bring job-generating projects to local districts), kill unions, and who want to essentially destroy government.

They also refuse to accept the realities of a global economy and of time. Just as British Coal Miners were in a declining position for almost 40 years before British Coal went under forever in the 1980s, American coal mining, while still relatively healthy compared to British Coal Mining back then, is not going to generate any new jobs ever again - it'll continue to decline no matter what politicians do.

Similarly, the jobs we had in industrial centers in the midwest and south, the Furniture industry in the Carolinas, the car industry in Indiana, Michigan, and Wisconsin, and others, these jobs are gone and won't return. And no amount of posturing is going to make them return in any great numbers.

NAFTA is blamed for this, but these industries were fleeing to other places long before NAFTA - this industrial migration began in the 1970s, and NAFTA was one way we could at least get some concessions out of what was already going to happen anyway. Remember Michael Moore's film Roger & Me? At least a half dozen factories are directly depicted in that film being shuttered so new ones can be opened in Mexico. Principle filming of Roger & Me was done from 1986 to 1988 - half a decade before NAFTA.

At the same time, many of these voters whine about NAFTA and illegal immigrants (who are leaving in greater numbers than they are entering), and about Black people being lazy. But they don't seem to want to do anything to help themselves change careers or move to places with booming industries. It's hard to uproot your life, it's true, particularly when you're older. But if you haven't had a good job in your area in more than a decade and nothing is on the horizon, it's time to think about what you can do to better your situation by leaving.

Don't tell me I don't care. But don't ask me to help if you're not willing to help yourself and specifically keep voting to harm other people and against your own interests.


Can you explain what you're talking about because my little brain is really confused. Anyway, if I'm not worthy of your time, I understand.

Mine too, because it's not at all clear what you're saying. If I've misjudged what you've said, I'm sorry. But you have a history of intentionally being unclear so you can take positions on both sides of an issue.



I may join a protest later when Trump actually pulled off amending the constitution in a wrong way, but even that is an exercise in futility imho. Maximum damage he can do is 8 years. If DNC cannot figure out a way to win the White House back, I'd be more upset at the DNC than Trump.

No. The "maximum damage" that can be done is that we're all dead in a hot war with a nuclear power, or that many of us are dead as a result of a civil war. That's why you elect people who at least try to represent every American. This is the first President I can recall who wasn't at all interested in representing anybody but those he likes.

[Jason]

You people are way more patient than I am :lol:

[drew]

Thank fuck for vodka.

[Freude am Fahren]

“I learned about the Bowling Green Massacre from my boyfriend George… George Glass.”

"I wonder if we will hear Frederick Douglas's thoughts on the bowling green massacre?"

[Cam]

Who said those gems?

[Freude am Fahren]

Conversation on FB between my sister and one of her friends. I think they're from Twitter.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, Taimar, I believe you misunderstood what I was saying. Read my original sentence again:


I think it's more than obvious some of the things Trumps saying that he will do is BS or just plain wrong. Liberals are all onboard already. centrists are mostly all onboard too. I'm sure even a lot of the conservatives are getting ready to say amen too, except the liberals have no attractive alternatives to offer these people.


As for the other stuffs, I'll just save you the trouble. I just don't have sufficient mental capacity to write clear sentences let alone able to convey my real thoughts clearly. You guys are upset enough already, don't need any more help from Billi.

Bottomline is that blame game is stupid. Right blames left and left blames right and we go nowhere. Best thing the left can do is to come up with more candidates like Bernie, rather than Hillary. With candidates like Hillary, rich still gets richer and poor still get poorer. Black lives matter more in theory, but blacks still get shot for real. What's the difference other than more politically correct?

[drew]

I hope it was in jest, but something tells me the context given proves otherwise.


:lol:

[Freude am Fahren]

http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/files/im/VJBsjmJ.jpg

[Jason]

I especially like the bottom text :lol:

[drew]

Yep. Scarily accurate.

People are shit

[MR2 Fan]

2:1 odds now!

https://www.fastcompany.com/3067806/the-odds-donald-trump-will-be-impeached-are-almost-21?partner=oregonian

[speedpimp]

www.TrumpDonald.org

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:
That's pretty awesome.

[Leon]

What do you get if you cross Donald Trump, with a stick of French bread?

A douchebaguette

[Yw-slayer]

This show is getting worse/funnier by the day.

[drew]

Yep, and it's only been 15 fucking days.

[Taimar]

This show is getting worse/funnier by the day.

We went out to see Hidden Figures yesterday. In it, of course, there's a short clip of President Kennedy. It's a great movie (not perfect, but really enjoyable), but that clip made me sad to think at what we've done to ourselves.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm liking Elon Musk more and more. I like his approach so far... To talk and work with Trump rather that just shut him out and protest. But of course most of us are not really in a position to talk to trump..., but anyway hope he can influence trump in a positive way whether it's immigration or climate change.

Also very proud of our legal system providing chk and balance by blocking executive order..., so it appears we don't have a dictator yet...

[Sad, little man]

Yes, yes let's reason with Hitler the Second.

Nobody can influence Trump, he's mentally ill. All we can do is block and protest him at every step.

[drew]

There's only one that can influence him, Steve Bannon.

Or should we say Steve Palpatine?


Steve Bannon makes Dick Cheney look like Jim Henson.

[Tom Servo]

I'm liking Elon Musk more and more. I like his approach so far... To talk and work with Trump rather that just shut him out and protest. But of course most of us are not really in a position to talk to trump..., but anyway hope he can influence trump in a positive way whether it's immigration or climate change.

Also very proud of our legal system providing chk and balance by blocking executive order..., so it appears we don't have a dictator yet...

Except that he tweeted that if anything happens, it's all the judges fault. I doubt he did it intentionally because he's not that smart, but he's literally set up a situation where if there's a terrorist attack, he can use that to attack one of the three branches of government.

This is a direct attack on the entire basis that the American government stands on. He attacked democracy. I'm not okay with just hoping that Elon Musk finds time to talk some sense into him in between trying to build a tunnel under LA to avoid traffic instead of, ya know, not living 20 miles from work.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think liberals can't really talk any sense to conservatives and vice versa. They all just have different senses... However, perhaps as one billionaire to another, they'll be able to have some sort of influence? They have money in common...

To me, that's probably way more effective than just us protesting?

Now I don't quite understand what you meant by trump attacked democracy?

Trumps ban was meant to stop terrorists from coming in, but it also stopped a lot of good folks from coming in... Now if we lift that ban and if terrorists come in, of course they'll want to blame that judge... There are no perfect solutions, each has its draw backs... Trumps 'attack' can't possibly destroy our legal system... This is all just part of check and balance at work as intended by our constitution, isn't it?

[Yw-slayer]

He is undermining respect for an independent judiciary.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Check and balancing probably requires certain level of mutual disrespect, right? If all branches of govt respect and love one another, they'd all act in one accord.

Now, trump was elected but the judge was probably appointed, so if anything, it's the judge who attacked democracy..., but then again trump lost the popular vote so I don't think democracy was attacked at all. Just politics as usual.

[G'day Mate]

Check and balancing probably requires certain level of mutual disrespect, right?

Not necessarily

[Tom Servo]

Check and balancing probably requires certain level of mutual disrespect, right? If all branches of govt respect and love one another, they'd all act in one accord.

We've talked about this. The world is not black & white. You do not have to either disrespect or love. There's respect RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT.

Argh, I'm now starting to act like the people that irritate me when they put things in all caps for no good reason.

[Yw-slayer]

Check and balancing probably requires certain level of mutual disrespect, right? If all branches of govt respect and love one another, they'd all act in one accord.

Now, trump was elected but the judge was probably appointed, so if anything, it's the judge who attacked democracy..., but then again trump lost the popular vote so I don't think democracy was attacked at all. Just politics as usual.

Oh FFS. Forget it.

[Freude am Fahren]

That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Guys, calm down. Regardless of how it works, I'm just happy that we don't have dictator trump in charge. Even his executive orders can be checked and balanced.

[Tom Servo]

You don't get it. He's setting the stage for one of the checks and balances to be blamed if anything goes wrong. He's trying to undermine an entire 1/3 of our system of government.



Just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril. If something happens blame him and court system. People pouring in. Bad!


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/828342202174668800

This is textbook dictator behavior.

[neanderthal]

Billi is less disturbed about Donald than he was about Hillary and her emails, and y'all tryina reason with him.


I love you guys.

[G'day Mate]

https://pics.onsizzle.com/kidde-anned-water-yeah-but-her-emails-10074186.png

[Sad, little man]

I'm sorry, I can't find anything funny about memes like that in light of the reality of what nuclear war would actually be, namely either total human extinction, or at the very least, a return to medieval population levels and probably technology.

And no, AUS would not escape unscathed. You guys would be under the same persistent cloud of debris that would block sunlight, drop temperatures, and hinder your ability to grow any food for years.