Politics

[novicius]

Heh, humans won't go extinct, c'mon -- there's plenty of time to reproduce before the fallout-induced tumors kill a large percentage survivors. :assclown:

[tigeraid]

As expected, Trumplestilstkin isn't doing much of the work himself.



Most horrifically, if we are still able to identify horror in our daily stew of urgent and physically-sickening emotions, is that Trump hasn’t really been all that involved in the writing of his executive orders (not that he’d likely help) and didn’t mean to appoint Steve Bannon, his white supremacist chief advisor preoccupied with destruction, to the National Security Council:

From now on, Mr. Trump would be looped in on the drafting of executive orders much earlier in the process...

[Chief of Staff Reince] Priebus bristles at the perception that he occupies a diminished perch in the West Wing pecking order compared with previous chiefs. But for the moment, Mr. Bannon remains the president’s dominant adviser, despite Mr. Trump’s anger that he was not fully briefed on details of the executive order he signed giving his chief strategist a seat on the National Security Council, a greater source of frustration to the president than the fallout from the travel ban.

Fucken LOL.

http://theslot.jezebel.com/trump-is-literally-stumbling-around-in-the-dark-didnt-1792038747

[balki]

...cannot figure out how to turn on the lights in the cabinet room, so they conduct meetings in the dark and try different doors until one opens and leads them to an exit.
is this real?

Aides confer in the dark because they cannot figure out how to operate the light switches in the cabinet room. Visitors conclude their meetings and then wander around, testing doorknobs until finding one that leads to an exit. I guess so (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/05/us/politics/trump-white-house-aides-strategy.html?_r=1)

[Crazed_Insanity]

You don't get it. He's setting the stage for one of the checks and balances to be blamed if anything goes wrong. He's trying to undermine an entire 1/3 of our system of government.



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/828342202174668800

This is textbook dictator behavior.

So worst case scenario, some terrorists got in and did some bad things..., Trump blames our legal system. Then how will this dictator remove 1/3 of our govt using his Twitter account?

Just like we protest and blame and trying to undermine our executive branch and couldn't make it disappear, I doubt trump and his supporters will be able to make the judicial branch disappear.

If it really happens, then yes, I'll finally be afraid. For now, I just don't get why you guys are so worry to death about it...

Stupid executive order comes.... You guys are pissed. Stupid executive order blocked, you guys are afraid trump will somehow execute the blocker and somehow use that to increase his tyrannical powers...like no matter what happens, the end is near.

[Kchrpm]

I doubt trump and his supporters will be able to make the judicial branch disappear.
We also doubted he would even win the nomination, let alone the election. He has so much nearly blind support from the majority group in Washington DC making the rules, why should we ignore him and pretend he only has a BB gun?

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://pics.onsizzle.com/kidde-anned-water-yeah-but-her-emails-10074186.png

I think Trump will care too much for his hotels around the world to send off nuclear missiles.

If he indeed transferred all his assets to a blind trust, then this may be a legit concern...

[Crazed_Insanity]

We also doubted he would even win the nomination, let alone the election. He has so much nearly blind support from the majority group in Washington DC making the rules, why should we ignore him and pretend he only has a BB gun?

Never said we should ignore him and pretend that he only has a BB gun. I only said we should only ignore him when we can't do anything about it anyway. We can't control how he tweets but we certainly don't have to follow it.

Earlier on, I didn't even realize executive orders can be blocked. I'm just happy that I was wrong on that. However, most of you are still pissed by Trump stupid tweets... worrying that he'll be able to dismantle our legal system? Com'on.

And although our congress is republican control, but I really don't think RNC has caved in and given full control over to emperor Trump yet.

Point is I don't see dictator Trump coming into reality soon. Check and balances still functioning.

[Kchrpm]

Earlier on, I didn't even realize executive orders can be blocked. I'm just happy that I was wrong on that.
Would they have been blocked if there hadn't been so much public outcry? If we had all just assumed nothing could be done, and therefore ignored him and let him do whatever he wanted without public and vocal dissent?

[21Kid]

Billi is less disturbed about Donald than he was about Hillary and her emails, and y'all tryina reason with him.


I love you guys. I'm so glad I pulled that plug... I get frustrated just reading people's responses to him. :lol:

[novicius]

Same. :up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

1st of all, I thought ideally judges should be making sure things are happening within existing laws and act accordingly, not act politically nor be influenced by popular opinion.

However, in reality, surely a judge can still have political leanings. If he is a Trump supporter, surely no amount of protest will cause him to act against Trump. If he is NOT a Trump supporter, even without any protests, if he finds it is within his powers to do something, surely he will. He's not going to just all of a sudden realizes that he has the power to stop Trump because of the protest..., anyway, I could be wrong of course. Maybe it was the protests that inspired that judge to act.

Personally, I think protests are last resort when you have no other options and it is the least effective. Someday if I believe our government has been radically altered and we're no longer check and balancing Trump or whoever our next dictator, then you can count on me protesting with you.

Anyway, some of you also need to learn to pull the plug on reading president's tweets.

[Sad, little man]

Heh, humans won't go extinct, c'mon -- there's plenty of time to reproduce before the fallout-induced tumors kill a large percentage survivors. :assclown:

Do you realize that the effects of a large scale nuclear war would be geographically much further reaching than just the areas affected by blasts and fallout?

[novicius]

Do you realize that I used a :assclown:?

[Sad, little man]

Forgive me if I can't relate to joking about the fact that human extinction is always about four minutes away, based on whatever Donald Trump decides to do at any given moment. I'm just making sure that you realize that we are talking about extinction, or very close to it.

[MR2 Fan]

look on the bright side...if all humans are extinct, no human will be around to worry about it.

[novicius]

Forgive me if I can't relate to joking about the fact that human extinction is always about four minutes away, based on whatever Donald Trump decides to do at any given moment. I'm just making sure that you realize that we are talking about extinction, or very close to it.
Yes, I was being sarcastic. Yes, human extinction is a possibility. I reacted in a channel of dark humor because what else are we gonna do? Protest? Storm the Capitol?

I read you, we are in a dark time as a nation and there's nothing we can do but white-knuckle it.

[drew]

Since I'm likely on a direct target city (major naval base/shipping port), I'm just going to go outside and point my boner at the sky, and fuck me an ICBM.

[Cam]

:lol:

:(

[Sad, little man]

Do not watch this movie. You will not be able to sleep after watching it. But, if you want an honest depiction of nuclear war and its effects for years after, here it is. But don't watch it. I warned you.

https://vimeo.com/18781528

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, Adam and Eve, do not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil... because you will surely die!

DO NOT EAT FROM IT, OKAY?

DO NOT BE STUPID AND VOTE FOR BREXIT OR TRUMP, OKAY?!?!?!?

Anyway, it's only human for us humans to make mistakes, but we can always learn from it..., rest assured that no matter what happens, we're never completely hopeless.

[Freude am Fahren]

Uh unless we're extinct. We can't really learn from that.

[Sad, little man]

No, if a nuclear war starts, we are hopeless. Ok? Hopeless. Go ahead, watch it.

[FaultyMario]

Is there any way to know where the eleven thousand warheads at our disposal are aiming?

[Freude am Fahren]

I don't think they really are aimed until they're fired. It'd be more like what's in their range.

[Freude am Fahren]

And now he's claiming that the media is covering up terrorist attacks. (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-claims-media-is-covering-up-terror-attacks/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=34185702)


“It’s gotten to a point where it’s not even being reported. In many cases, the very, very dishonest press doesn’t want to report it. They have their reasons and you understand that,” Mr. Trump said.

Nothing from be further from the truth. "If it bleeds, it leads," is very accurate.

[FaultyMario]

This here shitshow is Italian Marxism levels of accuracy.

It's like you're reading Gramsci.

[G'day Mate]

http://latinamericagoesglobal.kccsobamb8iq2te1et7s.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/181571_600.jpg

[G'day Mate]

I've noticed that Trump often ends his sentences with phrases like "... and you understand that" or "... you know that's true" or even "... you probably agree" - he's a master manipulator and seed-planter.

[Sad, little man]

Ha, like fuck he is. He is not a master manipulator. These are verbal tics of someone who's deeply insecure about themselves and what they're saying, but they desperately want people to come along with them and believe them.

[G'day Mate]

You don't feel like he manipulated people into voting for him by planting a bunch of anger and mistrust in their heads?

[JoshInKC]

This here shitshow is Italian Marxism levels of accuracy.

It's like you're reading Gramsci.

HAHAHA. You are not wrong - I was literally talking to someone about Gramsci this morning.
Great minds &c.

Regarding the aiming of nukes - It really depends - Many of our land-based icbms are sort of aimed. This is a legacy of the early generations of missile design when we had limited ability to control while in flight, so the silos basically had to be pointed at what they were supposed to annihilate along the lines of the great circles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great-circle_navigation). Nowadays flight controls are substantially more effective, but many of the old in-ground silos are still in service because it was considered unlikely that we wouldn't be firing at the old targets if full scale nuclear war broke out. Subsequently, many of our icbms have what amount to "aiming circles" of something 1000 miles or so.
Regardless, its safe to assume that with very little notice the US can drop a warhead on pretty much any given square meter of the earth's surface between icbms and submarine based weaponry.

[Crazed_Insanity]

http://gizmodo.com/5825278/failed-test-of-70s-era-icbm-hints-we-might-not-want-to-rely-on-70s-era-icbms

We probably need to make our missiles great again..., if we have enough money left over after we built our Great Wall of Mexico.

[Sad, little man]

The irony with nuclear weapons though is that it doesn't really matter if they work or not. They might work, and that's the deterrent. Just like how we might launch them. As long as there's a chance of it happening, the deterrent is effective.

[Freude am Fahren]

And Trump literally doesn't know that. (The whole "why do we have them if we don't use them" thing)

[Taimar]

1st of all, I thought ideally judges should be making sure things are happening within existing laws and act accordingly, not act politically nor be influenced by popular opinion.

This is, of course, what the VAST majority of judges do. Judges that are obviously partisan, like Roy Moore, get in trouble if they are Judging cases on personal beliefs over the written law. But the law is also a document to be interpreted.

Let's say the law says "Cars require insurance to be operated on the road legally." Does that include only cars, or does it also mean crossovers, or SUVs, or pickups?

That's a simplified version of what Judicial opinion is all about.


Personally, I think protests are last resort when you have no other options and it is the least effective.

You should do some reading about the end of British rule in India, the American Civil Rights movement, and a variety of other things.


Someday if I believe our government has been radically altered and we're no longer check and balancing Trump or whoever our next dictator, then you can count on me protesting with you.

By the time the government has been radically changed, it's too late. Maybe if Germans had come out to demonstrate in huge numbers in late 1933, Hitler would've been constrained. (A big maybe.) But by 1938, any protestors would be locked away in prison, and by 1940, they'd be shot.


Ha, like fuck he is. He is not a master manipulator. These are verbal tics of someone who's deeply insecure about themselves and what they're saying, but they desperately want people to come along with them and believe them.

I disagree. He has narcissistic personality disorder. It's a classic trait. It's why he's constantly gas-lighting the whole world, desperate to make them believe the reality he wants to construct about himself and his achievements. In ordered for him to do that, he has to genuinely believe the shit he says, and constantly attack anything that threatens those beliefs. It also means cajoling and buttering up people to see things his way. If he says "Well, you and I know this is true," it makes it seem like he and the other person are on the 'same side' of whatever the issue is, which is a way of encouraging and perpetuating the delusion.

People with NPD are extremely skilled at projecting the image of themselves that they want people to see, and they learn early how to manipulate people and situations to project that image.

The problem for a person with NPD is that the more scrutiny they draw, the more unlikely it is that they can sustain the illusion, which makes them more angry and more desperate to do so.

The reason we haven't seen his tax returns is that he isn't as rich, competent, or capable as he says he is and they prove it. He's built his whole world around being a very successful businessman, and he has all the trappings of it. But when - and it's when, not if - the veil is lifted, the whole thing will come crashing down.

[Sad, little man]

I guess I'm just a little too smart to fall for his whole shtick. Any time someone starts following up the things they say with those sorts of little phrases to try to reinforce what they're saying, all I can think is that they are clearly trying to con me into believing them. But I guess some people fall for it.

I just can't wait for those tax returns. But a part of me is thinking, what's to stop him from just falsifying those? Would it even be illegal for him to release fake returns when he's only doing it voluntarily to start with? I'm surprised that we haven't seen some bogus returns yet.

[Tom Servo]

I wonder if it's okay for the IRS to comment on the veracity of tax returns once you voluntarily disclose them. I have no idea if they can do that or not, but if they can, that'd make it hard to get away with releasing fake ones.

[drew]

That's just it, if someone did release "fake ones", he'd have to prove it wrong, by releasing his actual returns.

...and, he's the PRESIDENT, he should have to forgo that "privacy" with his returns, by that virtue alone.

I will laugh when he's not even worth a billion.

[novicius]

Do not watch this movie. You will not be able to sleep after watching it. But, if you want an honest depiction of nuclear war and its effects for years after, here it is. But don't watch it. I warned you.

https://vimeo.com/18781528
Threads? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads) I think The Terminator had more of an impact on me from that time. :lol:

Definitely don't watch The Day After (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After) if you're spooked out by old timey TV, SLM. ;)

[JoshInKC]

I know several people who appear in The Day After and drive many of the streets shown every day.

[novicius]

Last year I read Cormac McCarthy's The Road -- now that is some hard-hitting bleak literature. :|

The movie was pretty flat by comparison, IMO.

[Sad, little man]

Pull up a chair and grab the popcorn kids, it's getting good now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/02/07/words-matter-trumps-loose-talk-about-muslims-gets-weaponized-in-court-against-travel-ban/

Words mean things.

[drew]

Apparently he brought his cheering section to his US Central Command visit.

Seriously, what the fuck.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/07/white-house-list-donald-trumps-undereported-terror-list-paris-attacks-berlin-truck-killings

[drew]

Alternative Facts.

[21Kid]

I've noticed that Trump often ends his sentences with phrases like "... and you understand that" or "... you know that's true" or even "... you probably agree" - he's a master manipulator and seed-planter.
Ha, like fuck he is. He is not a master manipulator. These are verbal tics of someone who's deeply insecure about themselves and what they're saying, but they desperately want people to come along with them and believe them.

It's actually a pretty common sales technique (Foot-in-the-door technique (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-in-the-door_technique)). Getting the other person to think that they agree with the topic, by agreeing with you. You hear it a lot when you deal with sales people all the time. They do it so often, they probably don't even realize it, it just becomes the way they talk. Getting someone to agree, or say yes to anything, helps open them up to agreeing with the next bigger thing. I sometimes disagree, or say no, to even the most agreeable comments just to throw them off. :lol:

He also uses Social Proof (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof) a lot.

Social proof is a type of conformity. When a person is in a situation where they are unsure of the correct way to behave, they will often look to others for cues concerning the correct behavior. When "we conform because we believe that others' interpretation of an ambiguous situation is more accurate than ours and will help us choose an appropriate course of action,"[1] it is informational social influence. This is contrasted with normative social influence wherein a person conforms to be liked or accepted by others.

Social proof often leads not only to public compliance (conforming to the behavior of others publicly without necessarily believing it is correct) but also private acceptance (conforming out of a genuine belief that others are correct)

In fact, Trump uses most of the Six key principles of influence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cialdini#Six_key_principles_of_influence) too.

Reciprocity – People tend to return a favor, thus the pervasiveness of free samples in marketing. In his conferences, he often uses the example of Ethiopia providing thousands of dollars in humanitarian aid to Mexico just after the 1985 earthquake, despite Ethiopia suffering from a crippling famine and civil war at the time. Ethiopia had been reciprocating for the diplomatic support Mexico provided when Italy invaded Ethiopia in 1935. The good cop/bad cop strategy is also based on this principle.
Commitment and Consistency – If people commit, orally or in writing, to an idea or goal, they are more likely to honor that commitment because of establishing that idea or goal as being congruent with their self-image. Even if the original incentive or motivation is removed after they have already agreed, they will continue to honor the agreement. Cialdini notes Chinese brainwashing of American prisoners of war to rewrite their self-image and gain automatic unenforced compliance. Another example is children being made to repeat the Pledge of Allegiance each morning.
Social Proof – People will do things that they see other people are doing. For example, in one experiment, one or more confederates would look up into the sky; bystanders would then look up into the sky to see what they were seeing. At one point this experiment aborted, as so many people were looking up that they stopped traffic. See conformity, and the Asch conformity experiments.
Authority – People will tend to obey authority figures, even if they are asked to perform objectionable acts. Cialdini cites incidents such as the Milgram experiments in the early 1960s and the My Lai massacre.
Liking – People are easily persuaded by other people that they like. Cialdini cites the marketing of Tupperware in what might now be called viral marketing. People were more likely to buy if they liked the person selling it to them. Some of the many biases favoring more attractive people are discussed. See physical attractiveness stereotype.
Scarcity – Perceived scarcity will generate demand. For example, saying offers are available for a "limited time only" encourages sales.

[novicius]

Kid bringing the tech. :up: :up:

[21Kid]

Did anyone hear about the Pro-Trump Rally in support of the travel ban in Portland???


:|



:(



:erm:



Eight people (yes, 8) attend pro-Trump rally in Portland (http://www.pressherald.com/2017/02/06/eight-people-yes-8-attend-pro-trump-rally-in-portland-and-twitter-noticed/)

:lol:

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/828153094613696512/uu0PeZaS?format=jpg&name=386x202

[Sad, little man]

If you're pro Trump in Portland, perhaps you should, you know, not live in Portland.

[Sad, little man]

Oh, it's Portland Maine... Well still...

[21Kid]

Oh, sorry. Misleading headline...

[novicius]

That's only a 2.5 hour drive from Foxboro, sheesh. :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

Oh, sorry. Misleading headline...

Irony is not just a river in Egypt?

[novicius]

UW-Madison student abandons ‘alt-right’ group, will take leave of absence. (http://www.dailycardinal.com/article/2017/02/uw-madison-student-abandons-alt-right-group-will-take-leave-of-absence)

Professors take a "leave of absence" -- students just call it "dropping out". :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

By the time the government has been radically changed, it's too late. Maybe if Germans had come out to demonstrate in huge numbers in late 1933, Hitler would've been constrained. (A big maybe.) But by 1938, any protestors would be locked away in prison, and by 1940, they'd be shot.


See, you yourself would agree that earlier protests might not prevented Hitler's rise. Protests later on would become nearly impossible.

Just like Hitler, Trump's rise was very similar in fashion. Protests might work on typical politicians, but not with those who campaigned with the message of fear, anger and bigotry. These types simply won't give a damn what you're protesting about. You'd be wasting your breath.

However, luckily, I do believe our government system and economic shape to be way more robust than Germany's at the time.

Even if Trump were successful at altering the structure of our govt in his favor and become a new dictator, I'm pretty sure by then, even the conservatives would finally wake up and start an uprising. The amount of firearms we have in our nation would be our last line of defense.

Against the likes of Hitler, no protests would work. Only firepower can overtake them. A civil war within the US would prevent the world from experiencing the Trump-version of the Nazi party from taking over the world.

By the time I think Trump needs to be contained like that, I'd most likely join the rebellion than just a protest.

Anyway, that's a worst case scenario.

Best case scenario is that he ended up making America and the rest of the world great again! ;)

In reality, we'll probably end up somewhere in between the 2 scenarios.

I seriously believe unless we have more politicians who follow in Bernie's footsteps, regardless of which party is in control, the rich will get richer and the poor would become poorer. Just that republicans would do that more blatantly and democrats would do it more discreetly while hiding behind political correctness.

[novicius]

More for Madison, less for north (http://www.superiortelegram.com/opinion/4212826-more-madison-less-north)


We know who we can count on to get the real work done. If we need roads plowed, our streets policed — we rely on ourselves and our neighbors. Under Republican leadership, Madison keeps making it harder for your local elected officials to do the jobs you elected them to do. According to the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau, GOP lawmakers have passed 128 measures limiting local control since 2011.
I love how "Madison" is painted as the bad guy here -- northern and rural counties (as well as Waukesha, of course) voted overwhelmingly to put this Republican leadership in place. We tried to get the Governor recalled and you fought it, fuckwits! :lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqPRwq3QJsk

[MR2 Fan]

Devos is confirmed as secretary of "education"...which means kids can now learn that money CAN buy everything

[Crazed_Insanity]

2 Republican senators didn't confirm her and needed VP to step in? Oh, those 2 senators is gonna get some tweet storm from the president! ;)

[drew]

So fucking appalled right now.

[Jason]

I'm glad that I decided a long time ago that I don't want children. This is an intense world to raise kids in.

[21Kid]

:(

[Jason]

Sorry Bill, I'm not getting you pregnant.



Again.

[21Kid]

:( :(


Rosie O'Donnell, a long-time foe of President Donald Trump, says she'd be up for playing his chief strategist, Steve Bannon, on "Saturday Night Live."


I can hear the tweetstorm already!!! :lol:

[The359]

But Rosie isn't funny.

[Tom Servo]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/07/white-house-list-donald-trumps-undereported-terror-list-paris-attacks-berlin-truck-killings

A reporter from the LA Times that I follow on Twitter pointed out that not only did they cover the San Bernardino attacks, they won a pulitzer for their coverage of it.

[21Kid]

If Republicans won't take a stand on someone as incompetent as Betsy DeVos, what will they take a stand on? (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-betsy-devos-senate-confirmation-20170207-story.html)


I'm going to go with... NOTHING!

:smh:

She showed at her confirmation hearing that not only did she have no real background in public schools, she had nothing to contribute to the ongoing debates on how to make them better. Actually, she didn’t even seem to know what the debates are — or about the existence of existing laws governing education. Let’s forget the silly remark about some schools needing guns for protection against grizzly bears — please — and remember that she was unfamiliar with the key ways in which student achievement is measured, or the federal law for protecting students with disabilities, and that she refused to say she’d hold all kinds of schools equally accountable.

[drew]

Ameriduh

[Phil_SS]

DeVos being confirmed is a joke but she has no real power. The Secretary of Education does not rule over the nations schools. IMO, you probably won't hear another peep out of her. For example, who was President Obama's Secretary of Education?

The real policy is made in the Senate. Let's hope they do what is right, and honestly if they don't it is up to us to keep them accountable.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think they like her mainly because she's "pro-choice" with schools. We don't have to be stuck in the lousy public school system. She will most likely push to give parents the options to go to whatever school they like...

This is just like healthcare... liberals want one a single public system, but conservatives want to allow free market to work it's magic to deliver the best product at the cheapest price.

Both sides want the same end result, we want good and affordable healthcare or schools or whatever... they just have totally different approaches.

However, like I've said before, both usually fall short. Poor kids will usually end up poorer and sicker and less educated than rich kids regardless of which party is in control...

[Kchrpm]

She will most likely push to give parents the options to go to whatever school they like...
As long as you can afford it. Had trouble finding the job you had? Too bad, time to get another one! How else will you pay for a private school? Oh, you wanted to save and invest your money and get out of living paycheck to paycheck? TOO BAD! Either you pay 6 figures a year for your child to go to school, or they'll get basically no education, have no chance at getting a scholarship or even being accepted to college.

And if your ethnic child so much as even ruffles a single lily white feather we'll come up with an excuse to expel them, so better make sure they allow us to whip and denigrate them, lest their entire future be ruined!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Uh..., are you frustrated with the current education system? Well, then maybe we need to blame the previous secretary of education rather than this new bozo?

[Kchrpm]

No, I'm insinuating that a Secretary of Education that doesn't give a shit about the public education system will make it even worse, and people who can't easily afford private education will be completely fucked.

[21Kid]

JFC this is scary!!!

Sebastian Gorka, deputy assistant to President Donald Trump, said Monday that the administration will continue using the term "fake news" until the media understands that their "monumental desire" to attack the President is wrong.
SAY WHAT WE WANT YOU TO SAY!!! :angry: HOW DARE YOU BE CRITICAL OF THE DONALD!!! :angry:

[Crazed_Insanity]

No, I'm insinuating that a Secretary of Education that doesn't give a shit about the public education system will make it even worse, and people who can't easily afford private education will be completely fucked.

But do you agree we have poor people getting fucked now anyway? So why not allow the opposition to try a different approach? I think the belief of alternate approach will completely fuck the poor is probably an exaggeration.

Trump was elected fair and square. This education secretary was confirmed fair and squared... it's just unbelievable how they just barely make the grades..., but hey, they're doing it fair and square. Let's see if they can make america great again. If not, then the tide will be turned.

[Rikadyn]

Perhaps it is because the opposition has been the one trying for decades to hamstring educational system (and succeeding) to prove that it doesn't work and we should just forget about educating people who can't afford to buy it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

For decades, democrats for whatever reasons just can't win over the opposition. We've been experiencing gridlock with neither side willing to give.

Here's their chance to go 'right' all the way.

The left should have something to show for so that they can win more congressional seats and the white house, but obviously their efforts just weren't enough or weren't appreciated in order to win completely control.

The right now have completely control..., so just let them steer the ship for 4 years.

I do believe our nation is still great enough to survive hitting an iceberg or two...

Then hopefully america can finally return to her senses.

If Trump is really right, then he can make America greater again!

[Fogelhund]

The right now have completely control..., so just let them steer the ship for 4 years.

I do believe our nation is still great enough to survive hitting an iceberg or two...

Then hopefully america can finally return to her senses.

If Trump is really right, then he can make America greater again!

The Titanic was pretty indestructable too. Most of his policies don't make any long term sense. The probability of a major financial shock event during his tenure is very high.

[Sad, little man]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-bannon-conway-meetings-light-switch-darkness-a7565136.html

"Donald Trump’s team cannot find the light switches to the cabinet room in which they conduct their meetings, and have to speak in the dark and feel their way out of the room, according to a report that sheds interesting detail on life inside the White House."

There's just no making the shit up. :lol:

[IMOA]

The writers of that article apparently disagree with you

[Crazed_Insanity]

The Titanic was pretty indestructable too. Most of his policies don't make any long term sense. The probability of a major financial shock event during his tenure is very high.

Trump has been unpredictable so far, market has also had a bit of melt up thus far... So we have a bit of buffer if your prediction comes true.

Anyway, I wasn't that hopeful with either Hillary or trump, I'm also not feeling as hopeless with either in the White House...

The fact that trump team can't find light switches in the White House is actually a plus to me... Because that means he doesn't have any established insiders there! ;)

[Sad, little man]

The writers of that article apparently disagree with you
Well, that article is just relaying what was reported by the New York Times. And, you know, you can say the NYT is lying, but just be aware that that basically brings you down to a Donald Trump level of rhetoric. But hey, if that's where you want to go, so be it.

[Tom Servo]

republicans are the true snowflakes (they're all white, they're cold, and if you put enough of em together they'll shut down public schools)

https://twitter.com/mrbenwexler/status/828820081320816641

[drew]

:up:

[neanderthal]

facepalm

[Crazed_Insanity]

Did you confuse slm for billi?

Tom Swervo, follow Jesus with all your heart and be the light and salt of the world..., and you'd be able to melt all the snow!!!!

[neanderthal]

Did you confuse slm for billi?

I did!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For one hot minute there

[Fogelhund]

Trump has been unpredictable so far, market has also had a bit of melt up thus far... So we have a bit of buffer if your prediction comes true.

Anyway, I wasn't that hopeful with either Hillary or trump, I'm also not feeling as hopeless with either in the White House...

The fact that trump team can't find light switches in the White House is actually a plus to me... Because that means he doesn't have any established insiders there! ;)

A bit of a buffer? I'm not talking about a minor correction here.

Yup, no establishment people in this cabinet... nope, none at all...

[Tom Servo]

Tom Swervo, follow Jesus with all your heart and be the light and salt of the world..., and you'd be able to melt all the snow!!!!

Naah. I like Slayer too much.

[Taimar]

See, you yourself would agree that earlier protests might not prevented Hitler's rise. Protests later on would become nearly impossible.

No. Because protests against the Trump "administration" are not like Protests against Hitler might have been.

Because as you say, we have a 241-year-old Democracy with stable institutions and we have an economy in pretty good shape.

Germany in 1933 had been a succession of different states, monarchies, principalities, and democracies for years, had been devastated by a major war in which a huge number of Germans were killed only 15 years earlier, and had then been in a state of economic collapse for more than a decade.

There is more chance of protest succeeding in a functioning society than in one that genuinely is torn to pieces.


Just like Hitler, Trump's rise was very similar in fashion. Protests might work on typical politicians, but not with those who campaigned with the message of fear, anger and bigotry. These types simply won't give a damn what you're protesting about. You'd be wasting your breath.

But again, a LARGE majority of people in the United States do not want to live in a dictatorship or a country without the rule of law - probably 60-70% of them, even people who supported Trump but now may regret that decision (and really, who wouldn't). So protest here and now is, as I said above, not like protest in 1933 Germany.



By the time I think Trump needs to be contained like that, I'd most likely join the rebellion than just a protest.

But again, protests now prevent revolution later. And most people don't want revolution or civil war.



Best case scenario is that he ended up making America and the rest of the world great again! ;)

Don't hold your breath.


DeVos being confirmed is a joke but she has no real power. The Secretary of Education does not rule over the nations schools. IMO, you probably won't hear another peep out of her. For example, who was President Obama's Secretary of Education?

Arne Duncan served from 2009 to 2015, and he was honestly terrible at that job.

If Republicans had focused on criticizing things of substance rather than freaking out over Obama's skin color, perhaps that would've been a legitimate area to criticize Obama and try to fix the problem of an inadequate or poor performing secretary. There were plenty of legit things to criticize under Obama's tenure - almost all of which were totally ignored by Republicans in favor of high-profile wastes of money like the Benghazi hearings or absurd discussions of death panels and Kenya.


I think they like her mainly because she's "pro-choice" with schools. We don't have to be stuck in the lousy public school system. She will most likely push to give parents the options to go to whatever school they like...

Some of them like her because they believe in Charter Schools, which of course siphon off good students from regular schools and make those schools even poorer performers.

Some of them like her because they understand she will be terrible for Public Education and they're okay with that because they want to destroy public education.

Some of them like her because she's all about forcing Religion on kids. As long as it's Jesus.


This is just like healthcare... liberals want one a single public system, but conservatives want to allow free market to work it's magic to deliver the best product at the cheapest price.

It's not at all like healthcare.

But many people do want a functional, high-quality, public education system. Because EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY HAS THAT, and also BECAUSE THAT SHIT WORKS.

I'll also say that "letting the free market handle it" has generally failed to deliver cheaper, higher quality services, or better outcomes where it has been tried in most areas that were formerly public. Private Prisons, for example.


Both sides want the same end result, we want good and affordable healthcare or schools or whatever... they just have totally different approaches.

"Both Sides" don't want the same result. One side wants an educated, capable workforce. The other side doesn't see the value in education at all, because the more people learn, the more they question the world views that Conservative politicians rely on. It's why Conservative pols are so hostile to education of any kind.



Perhaps it is because the opposition has been the one trying for decades to hamstring educational system (and succeeding) to prove that it doesn't work and we should just forget about educating people who can't afford to buy it.

That is how Conservatives work. They break the apparatus' and institutions of government on purpose, and then claim those institutions don't work. They've been doing it for years, but it got much more pronounced after the 1994 mid-terms.



For decades, democrats for whatever reasons just can't win over the opposition. We've been experiencing gridlock with neither side willing to give.

Every time the census is taken, congressional districts are redrawn. They can also be redrawn at other times, but generally that's when it happens. Republicans have controlled congress and statehouses at key times during the census process, and they've made a point to specifically redraw districts after capturing state legislatures - ensuring that they sit in gerrymandered majorities. Democrats do this too, but to a lesser extent. The Republicans made a specific plan of doing this in the late 2000s and have used that plan to effectively disenfranchise millions of Democratic voters, who may outnumber Republicans but who's numbers are not reflected in the makeup of state legislatures, who then hold the keys to the district maps.

[Taimar]

Trump was elected fair and square. This education secretary was confirmed fair and squared... it's just unbelievable how they just barely make the grades..., but hey, they're doing it fair and square. Let's see if they can make america great again. If not, then the tide will be turned.


This warrants a separate post in and of itself.


Trump was elected fair and square.

Except for the highly partisan way in which voting rights were restricted in key states, the blatant interference at the FBI by Trump partisans, particularly Rudy Giuliani, that led to James Comey’s huge Hatch Act violation, and the Russian meddling in terms of putting out propaganda that influenced low-information voters. He was not Elected fair and square. He’ll always have an asterisk.


This education secretary was confirmed fair and squared..

Except for the fact that she donated, collectively, several million dollars directly to the Senators that confirmed her. She’s a major donor to more than 30 of them and in particular those who got her advanced from committee to the full Senate.

Those she donated to ignored hundreds of thousands of calls, e-mails, and letters from their constituents begging them to vote “no.”

It’s a bought and paid for seat. Period.

[IMOA]

Well, that article is just relaying what was reported by the New York Times. And, you know, you can say the NYT is lying, but just be aware that that basically brings you down to a Donald Trump level of rhetoric. But hey, if that's where you want to go, so be it.

I'm quite happy to say that I don't for one moment believe that the US cabinet is meeting in a dark room because someone can't find the light switch and respected news organisations reporting that need a kick in the teeth because they're just giving oxygen to the whole fake news thing that trump is going on about.

[Yw-slayer]

I'm quite happy to say that I don't for one moment believe that the US cabinet is meeting in a dark room because someone can't find the light switch and respected news organisations reporting that need a kick in the teeth because they're just giving oxygen to the whole fake news thing that trump is going on about.

I agree with Greg. There are a lot of morons in the White House, but I think it highly unlikely that no-one can find a light switch.

[novicius]

Yeah, Trump aides are trolling reporters. #now_thats_atroll

[Sad, little man]

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2233&d=1486560281

2233

[Cam]

I've been waiting for the saucer men to pick me up for years.

[drew]

mmmm...anal probes

[Cam]

I would prefer pegging over annihilation.

[drew]

Good point.

[tigeraid]

How about annihilation by pegging?

[MR2 Fan]

How about annihilation by pegging?

:eek:

[drew]

:hard:

[tigeraid]

That'd be a great Grindcore album name, actually.

[Tom Servo]

Tom Swervo, follow Jesus with all your heart and be the light and salt of the world..., and you'd be able to melt all the snow!!!!

Naah. I like Annihilation by Pegging too much.

[Crazed_Insanity]

There is more chance of protest succeeding in a functioning society than in one that genuinely is torn to pieces.
I can agree with you that you won't have 0% chance, but your chances of changing Donald's mind to reverse his executive orders thru protests are still pretty low. Think about it, he still thinks his 48% popular vote is bogus. He probably also thinks that the crowds at his inauguration is 10 times bigger than all the protests nationwide combined! I really don't think his mind can be changed that easily.


a LARGE majority of people in the United States do not want to live in a dictatorship or a country without the rule of law - probably 60-70% of them, even people who supported Trump but now may regret that decision (and really, who wouldn't). So protest here and now is, as I said above, not like protest in 1933 Germany.
I agree with you there, but again, the problem is Trump believes he has 60~70% of the popular support. Your poll cannot be correct in his mind!


But again, protests now prevent revolution later. And most people don't want revolution or civil war.
Ideally yes. Sometimes protests can work. Some dictators can be overthrown by protests, while some dictators decide to mow down his own people. I'm not saying we absolutely shouldn't protest, heck, I might even join in on a protest someday, but realistically I just don't think it'll work on Trump.


Some of them like her because they believe in Charter Schools, which of course siphon off good students from regular schools and make those schools even poorer performers.

Some of them like her because they understand she will be terrible for Public Education and they're okay with that because they want to destroy public education.

Some of them like her because she's all about forcing Religion on kids. As long as it's Jesus.
Just take a look at our top universities. You know, in most other countries, public universities are usually the top universities. That's true in Taiwan to England. However, what about the good old US of A? Private universities are better or public? Now, just because we have better private universities, does it necessary mean the end of our public universities? Hell no! May the best universities win that title. I don't think a little competition can hurt our education. If anything, it helped us. BTW, please don't look down on Jesus because pretty much all of our top prestigious universities started out because of Jesus!


It's not at all like healthcare.

But many people do want a functional, high-quality, public education system. Because EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY HAS THAT, and also BECAUSE THAT SHIT WORKS.

I'll also say that "letting the free market handle it" has generally failed to deliver cheaper, higher quality services, or better outcomes where it has been tried in most areas that were formerly public. Private Prisons, for example.
At the university level, I've already shown you that USA has made private system worked out better than public without undermining the public universities. There's no one way to do it. Others around the world made the public system to work out better, great, nothing wrong with that... however, that is not the ONLY way to do it. USA has proven that.

Current ACA also have combination of public and private mix... it probably just need more tweaks, but too bad the conservatives are just too stubborn... as long as Obama did it, then they'll repeal it... whatever, let's see how much better they can do.

Of course free market won't always work if too much greed gets in the way. Enron was a good example. However, I wouldn't make the claim free market generally failed to work.



"Both Sides" don't want the same result. One side wants an educated, capable workforce. The other side doesn't see the value in education at all, because the more people learn, the more they question the world views that Conservative politicians rely on. It's why Conservative pols are so hostile to education of any kind.
The political establishment for sure wouldn't want to educate the people too much. Yes, I'd agree that average conservatives are probably dumber, but they did see thru the political establishment... unlike the smarter liberals... RNC might want to destroyed the public education system, but I doubt the conservative folks really want to remain uneducated.


Every time the census is taken, congressional districts are redrawn. They can also be redrawn at other times, but generally that's when it happens. Republicans have controlled congress and statehouses at key times during the census process, and they've made a point to specifically redraw districts after capturing state legislatures - ensuring that they sit in gerrymandered majorities. Democrats do this too, but to a lesser extent. The Republicans made a specific plan of doing this in the late 2000s and have used that plan to effectively disenfranchise millions of Democratic voters, who may outnumber Republicans but who's numbers are not reflected in the makeup of state legislatures, who then hold the keys to the district maps.
Why couldn't democrats fight this... or do the same? Political scheming-wise, DNC dropped the ball big time on that.
Also, why would Hillary be appealing to any of the states Trump won? How about her VP picks? Sanders, Warren, or Joe Biden? But Tim Kaine?

First you don't redraw the district to your advantage..., and then you don't pick the candidates that will appeal to those borderline district?

You deserve to lose.

Wall Street, Silicon Valley is yours for the taking already. You don't try to at least make the appearance of standing with the middle white america, but mock them as deplorables. What do you expect?

Speaking of bought and paid for, I think that's what Hillary symbolizes, at least to me.

Bernie Sanders could've easily defeat Trump.

DNC lost fair and square. They don't have the foresight to carve out the map to their advantage and they don't care about voters who had less money. Voters see thru the BS established politics... so decided to give Trump a chance.

Unfortunately, other than he couldn't figure out how to turn on the lights at WH, his admin looks as "established" as ever...

[drew]

I don't mind people with religion. But it's shit like that quoted above that totally fucks me off about it.

I respect anyone's beliefs, etc, until they demand it be mine.

Not to mention this is the politics thread. The religious one is elsewhere. Much like there should be a separation of church and state, so should it be here.

Fuck off.

[Rikadyn]

I second the Esteemed Drew's message.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Who demanded anything? It was merely a suggestion regarding how one could melt snow.

If you truly respect something, you wouldn't be this sensitive. Don't worry though, I hated Christianity prior to my conversion too... So I totally understand.

Now apologies for mentioning Jesus' name as intended in a politics thread. Now you guys feel free to use it as exclamation mark!!!!!!! Or a cuss word?

[Yw-slayer]

As in, Jesus Fucking Christ?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey, tone it down YaWeh slayer, this is a political thread after all!

[Taimar]

As in, Jesus Fucking Christ?

I thought his middle name was "tapdancing?"

[Tom Servo]

I grew up with "Jumping Jesus on a Pogo Stick"

[Tom Servo]

You don't try to at least make the appearance of standing with the middle white america, but mock them as deplorables.

Haven't we already discussed this? Nobody mocked middle white America as deplorables. She was talking about the racist, anti-semitic, misogynistic fucks that abound on Twitter right now. The alt-right. Those that follow Richard Spencer and Milo Yiannopoulos. Those that follow Steve Bannon. The "Red-pill" people. The people that run around telling Jews that now that Trump is in charge, they're going to be put in ovens.

If you keep insisting on saying this, that means that *YOU* equate middle white America with a bunch of racist, anti-semitic, misogynistic fucks. Not us, and not Hillary.

[Leon]

This looks to have become another thread I will be avoiding.

[drew]

I thought his middle name was "tapdancing?"
Or "titty-fucking"

[neanderthal]

When everyone disagrees with, you might be the problem.

Of course Billi would think he was the lone caregiver in a mental institute...

[tigeraid]

Oh good, it's this shit now.





Make Pegging Great Again.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Haven't we already discussed this? Nobody mocked middle white America as deplorables. She was talking about the racist, anti-semitic, misogynistic fucks that abound on Twitter right now. The alt-right. Those that follow Richard Spencer and Milo Yiannopoulos. Those that follow Steve Bannon. The "Red-pill" people. The people that run around telling Jews that now that Trump is in charge, they're going to be put in ovens.

If you keep insisting on saying this, that means that *YOU* equate middle white America with a bunch of racist, anti-semitic, misogynistic fucks. Not us, and not Hillary.

Yes we've discussed about this... Hillary should have clearly specified what kind of deplorables she was talking about and never ever apologize for calling them out.

But that's not what she did.

She mocked them, and then apologized for mocking them. Don't tell me nobody mock them. And if she has to apologize for calling out the kind of people you specified, then she has questionable integrity.

[Rikadyn]

https://itsgoingdown.org/first-shot-anarchists-trump-new-normal/

[The359]

I know there are only 60 days left to make our case -- and don't get complacent, don't see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think well he's done this time. We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now how 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America. But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

Pretty. Fucking. Specific.

[Freude am Fahren]

Also, notice that EVERYTIME you saw/heard that quote, the "to be grossly generalistic" part was left out.

[Freude am Fahren]

Pete Souza (Obama's photographer) has been trolling Trump on Instagram.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-photographer-taunts-trump-on-instagram-210339104.html

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hmm..., okay, I have admit to being swept under sensationalist journalism..., I never actually heard that full speech. After a bit more googling, it also turned out that she only regrets saying 'half'... since there's really no way of knowing exactly how many of such "deplorables" are there... my bad on this one for blaming her.

However, given that a non-Trump supporter like me falsely blamed her for her comments, chances are the "other" basket of Trump supporters probably made the same mistake... taking her words the wrong way.

Anyway, bottom line is that she probably just wasn't understanding and empathetic enough with the other 'half' and that's why she lost their votes. The misunderstandings for sure also didn't help.

[neanderthal]

Hmm..., okay, I have admit to being swept under sensationalist journalism..., I never actually heard that full speech. After a bit more googling, it also turned out that she only regrets saying 'half'... since there's really no way of knowing exactly how many of such "deplorables" are there... my bad on this one for blaming her.

However, given that a non-Trump supporter like me falsely blamed her for her comments, chances are the "other" basket of Trump supporters probably made the same mistake... taking her words the wrong way.

Anyway, bottom line is that she probably just wasn't understanding and empathetic enough with the other 'half' and that's why she lost their votes. The misunderstandings for sure also didn't help.

Yeah now apply that to her fucking emails that you were tilting at windmills about and still cant tell us what was in them, even after invoking all the wikileaks leaks that were supposed to hold the smoking bomb

[neanderthal]

You. fell. hook. line. and. sinker. for their antiHillary campaign.

Don't blame the media. You played yourself.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm anti-both.

If Bernie sanders never happened, maybe I wouldn't be so reluctant to cast my vote for Hillary.

Had the DNC nominated sanders, he would've won the liberal states along with the anti-establishment states.

You can blame Trump on billi if you want, but it's DNC that's screwed up.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4NMHDxUkAAxuwT.jpg

Just give it time...

[MR2 Fan]

wow, who can argue with that line of reasoning? :erm:

[Tom Servo]

Wow, strong praise, being better than Baghdadi. I hope they compare him to flesh-eating bacteria next!

[drew]

Ebola and super aids.


Sorry, ebola with super aids.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/x1qdahuft4f86pgizldw.jpg

[Cam]

WHO'S YOUR BAGHDADDY?

(Seriously, I can't even...)

[21Kid]

You. fell. hook. line. and. sinker. for their antiHillary campaign.

Don't blame the media. You played yourself.

this.

[Tom Servo]

9th circuit court upholds stay on Trump's travel ban. Unanimous ruling. It also appears a lot of his mouthing off during the campaign and on Twitter, as well as things like Giuliani going on TV talking about how they were going to figure out how to make a legal Muslim ban, didn't help his case.



The States argue that the Executive Order violates the Establishment and Equal Protection Clauses because it was intended to disfavor Muslims. In support of this argument, the States have offered evidence of numerous statements by the President about his intent to implement a "Muslim ban" as well as evidence they claim suggests that the Executive Order was intended to be that ban, including sections 5(b) and 5(e) of that Order.

[FaultyMario]

Hey Russ, you might want to spoiler wrap that shit.

Dick!

[Freude am Fahren]

Okay, either I've spoiled Harry Potter for you, in which case, welcome back from your deserted island, or the pics are too big, in which case, sorry. I'm on chrome, and it automatically resizes to fit the forum, don't know if that's a forum thing or chrome.

Or you're just joking (probably), in which case, :finger:

[FaultyMario]

Mostly option c.

So yeah. :assclown:

[21Kid]

Today, the "jobs president" tried to put an American company out of business
for not carrying his daughter's clothing line that are made in China.



I'm afraid of going on FB, or even coming in this thread now-a-days...
"Do I really want to hear about what terrible thing Trump & Co. did today?" :smh:

[Fogelhund]

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Letter-to-OGE-re-Conway-Endorsement-FINAL.pdf

Conway has been recommended for investigation by Jason Chaffetz, Chairman of the Oversight and Ethics Committee.

So what happens now... Conway actually get investigated, or does Chaffetz get hammered on twitter, and then removed?

[21Kid]

They'll wag their finger at her and it will never get mentioned again.

[FaultyMario]

Today, the "jobs president" tried to put an American company out of business
for not carrying his daughter's clothing line that are made in China.



"Do I really want to hear about what terrible thing Trump & Co. did today?" :smh:

Did you read the CBS leak on what our foreign minister did with Jared aide-in-law Kushner?

That shit's typified in it federal penal code.

[Taimar]

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Letter-to-OGE-re-Conway-Endorsement-FINAL.pdf

Conway has been recommended for investigation by Jason Chaffetz, Chairman of the Oversight and Ethics Committee.

So what happens now... Conway actually get investigated, or does Chaffetz get hammered on twitter, and then removed?

Only Paul Ryan can theoretically remove Chaffetz, and while I'd love to see him go, I can't imagine that if they did that they wouldn't just stir up even more trouble for themselves. It's pretty obvious that every time a Republican representative in all but the reddest of red districts (think Louie Gohmert) goes home for a town hall or a meeting with constituents, they're going to get bombarded by dissent as Chaffetz did last night.

And rightly so. They talked a great deal about imagined abuses under Obama, and now they're in a position of condoning total inaction about real, tangible, very obvious abuses under Trump. Dems and Liberals may be outnumbered in the gerrymandered districts at least 45% of Republican house members sit in, but they are there. Most of those districts are not deep red - they're sort of reddish purple.

I suspect that if things continue to go as they are, many of those districts might turn a blue purple in 2018, the same way they turned from blue purple to red purple in 2010.

Conway needs to be fired - publicly. And in any other administration she would be.

In any normal administration, with regards to ethics, the line would be "Ceasar's wife must be beyond reproach."

If you said that to this "administration" they'd say "I don't know why you're talking about Ceasar's Salad, but you can get one at the new Trump Grill in the capital building for only $47.99. They have gold forks."

[Cam]

:lol:

[Tom Servo]

Today, the "jobs president" tried to put an American company out of business
for not carrying his daughter's clothing line that are made in China.



I'm afraid of going on FB, or even coming in this thread now-a-days...
"Do I really want to hear about what terrible thing Trump & Co. did today?" :smh:

I am very, very torn on this. I'm struggling to find the happy medium between being constantly outraged and feeling the need to just hide from it all to save my sanity.

This week has probably been that beacon of hope that the judiciary still has a chance to save us, but I also feel a sense of responsibility outside of just voting to do a small part to help make sure this doesn't all get out of hand, and part of that means staying informed. It may be that I just haven't found the right outlet to do that other than to preach to the choir about how fucked up this all is. There's also a sense that my voice isn't the most important one right now - I'm an upper-middle class middle-aged straight white man of northern European descent. The only thing Trump and his cronies would come after me for is the atheism part, and I'm not even remotely convinced that Trump himself isn't at least agnostic.

[21Kid]

agreed.

Brands all over the world are praying that Trump attacks them (http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/opinions/trump-pr-attack-borkowski-opinion/index.html)

But perhaps the greatest beneficiary of Trump's bile has been his most-hated foe: the mainstream media. Despite being labeled as "fake news," the "unfair" and "failing" New York Times has seen a tenfold increase in subscriptions since the election.
So beneficial is Trump's Midas grope that it's likely we'll see more brands clamoring to get in on the protest points.
Through his puffed-up ego, Trump is apparently unaware that by tweeting his opprobrium he is giving his antagonists a fantastic platform.:lol: That would be awesome if companies just start egging him on to invoke a response.

[Tom Servo]

I posted something about how Trump had apparently never heard of the Streisand Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect) on Facebook a while ago. Roofer responded with "well seriously, nobody likes her, so probably not". I figure that confirms it.

[novicius]

:lol:

Bonus :lol: :lol: for "Midas Grope".

[speedpimp]

I grew up with "Jumping Jesus on a Pogo Stick"

Actually it is Sweet Baby Jesus In A Winnie The Pooh Onesie.

[MR2 Fan]

I didn't see this mentioned here yet, but when there was all of the "Alt" EPA and NASA accounts being set up (and still going!), I was clued into a person who has compiled TONS of data about Trump's Russian connections. His name is Scott Dworkin and he created the Dworkin Report.

Apparently 24 congressmen have received the report and it paints quite a picture about Russia's influence over not just Trump but his cabinet and relatives as well.

[Leon]

:lol: That would be awesome if companies just start egging him on to invoke a response.

It's not just companies .... I think there are actually countries egging him on right now.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/89303789/america-first-new-zealand-second



Soon after President Donald Trump's inauguration, comedian Arjen Lubach locked on to one key slogan of Trump's: "America First". If America is number one, Lubach asked, could the Netherlands be second?

He produced a satiric promo video asking just that, complete with a Trump impersonator extolling the virtues of the Netherland's racist "Black Pete" tradition.

The video proved immensely popular, and soon the rest of Europe got in on the joke, with videos produced mostly by professional comedy shows.

[Sad, little man]

All this cultural strife is making for some damn good photos.

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2238&d=1486840398

2238

[Crazed_Insanity]

Actually it is Sweet Baby Jesus In A Winnie The Pooh Onesie.

You guys are so privileged! I never had any Jesus toys at Taiwan!

Now that photo in the previous post is just sad in so many levels.

[Sad, little man]

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2239&d=1486843020

2239

[Crazed_Insanity]

Here, let me elaborate why I'm sad...

It's perfectly understandable to want to fuck Jesus as unbelievers, otherwise he wouldn't be crucified in the 1st place.

The saddest part to me is that 'believers' are using this amazing loving act of God as their middle finger toward unbelievers.

How many true followers of Jesus do we have in this nation?

This leads me to believe that it'll be very difficult to see America becoming great ever again anytime soon... Sigh...

[Sad, little man]

Well maybe you should find some of the people shoving crucifixes in peoples' faces who are advocating for women to have rights over their own bodies, and tell them to stop it. Until then...

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2240&d=1486846692

2240

[drew]

Pardon me while I vomit out my ass.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://media.giphy.com/media/RfZZhhE2v0H0A/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well maybe you should find some of the people shoving crucifixes in peoples' faces who are advocating for women to have rights over their own bodies, and tell them to stop it. Until then...

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2240&d=1486846692

2240

If I personally know someone who's the westboro baptist type, I'd definitely have a word with him.

Otherwise, I think I'll stay away from such ungodly emotional crowd.

[MR2 Fan]

I never hear any pro-choice people discussing the science portion behind pregnancy and when it's considered "life" in a scientific basis, I wonder why? It seems the pro-lifers (I'm in the middle, I can understand both sides of the argument) are claiming that anytime from 0-9 months is considered "life" which I think is not in the bible and a bit silly.

[G'day Mate]

The Christmas before last I knew five people who were pregnant, and of those only two of the babies (one of them being Jonah) survived. The first to go had no heartbeat, which was sad, but the other two had to be aborted.

One of these was a case where the mother contracted CMV for the first time in the early stages of pregnancy, which is basically disasterous for a fetus. The child would have been born deaf, blind and severely mentally retarded and probably only survived a few years.

The other had spina bifida, but that information was being withheld from the mother as she lives with her husband in a Muslim country. The mother knew something wasn't right so she got herself checked out while in Australia over Christmas and, sure enough,

I don't understand why people would insist on bringing such children into the world. These are burdens that can easily break up marriages and ruin the lives of everyone involved. As far as I know, both women are trying to get pregnant again now. You can bet this would not be the case had they not had access to abortions - they'd instead be dealing with children that science is keeping alive as long as possible.

Fuck that pompous woman and her cross.

[Tom Servo]

https://media.giphy.com/media/RfZZhhE2v0H0A/giphy-downsized-large.gif

Pay attention to the lady on the left side. Who claps like that?!?

[Tom Servo]

Here, let me elaborate why I'm sad...

It's perfectly understandable to want to fuck Jesus as unbelievers, otherwise he wouldn't be crucified in the 1st place.

The saddest part to me is that 'believers' are using this amazing loving act of God as their middle finger toward unbelievers.

How many true followers of Jesus do we have in this nation?

This leads me to believe that it'll be very difficult to see America becoming great ever again anytime soon... Sigh...

Eh...I think part of what makes this country great is that we have so many different people of so many different backgrounds and ideals that don't necessarily all agree. It often brings out the worst in all of us, but it also brings out the best in all of us, too. I don't much care for the people using the crucifix as a bludgeon, but I'm really happy that I'm in a country where they can do that, where someone can give them the finger for it, and we all still get to go home without serious injury or worse.

Speaking of, how many people saying "Make America Great Again" are the same ones that used to say "Love it or leave it"?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Conservatives are funny because they want fucking choices... Such as healthcare, vaccines... They don't want government mandating things telling them what to do, except this.

Liberals are funny because up until fetus/babies are born, separated from mommy, they just don't exist. It's okay to just mutilate or slaughter them. It's her body, she can do whatever she wants. However, once the baby is officially born, don't you even dare verbally discipline them using the slightest harsh words... Because that'd be child abuse! If you dare even touch the kid, I'll call the government to crack down on your ass! You don't know how to properly raise your kid, obviously government does!

Go figure.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Eh...I think part of what makes this country great is that we have so many different people of so many different backgrounds and ideals that don't necessarily all agree. It often brings out the worst in all of us, but it also brings out the best in all of us, too. I don't much care for the people using the crucifix as a bludgeon, but I'm really happy that I'm in a country where they can do that, where someone can give them the finger for it, and we all still get to go home without serious injury or worse.

Speaking of, how many people saying "Make America Great Again" are the same ones that used to say "Love it or leave it"?

As stated in my previous post, I think both sides are pathetic. The so called Jesus side is worse.

Our nation is now getting more and more extreme and polarizing... We're only bringing out the worst in each other... At least with slm's pics, I can't see anything good...

Love it or leave it.
I'm moving if so and so is elected...
Fuck off you assholes who disagree with me...

Sad state we're in...

[neanderthal]

I never hear any pro-choice people discussing the science portion behind pregnancy and when it's considered "life" in a scientific basis, I wonder why? It seems the pro-lifers (I'm in the middle, I can understand both sides of the argument) are claiming that anytime from 0-9 months is considered "life" which I think is not in the bible and a bit silly.


As an ardent pro choicer AND Christian I can sum up my feelings thus; if the embryo could survive outside the womb without life debilitating complications for the rest of their earthly life, then i'm quite fine with calling it (surely there is a better term for "it" that that?!? One that isn't loaded like "baby," or too clinical like or zygote and embryo?) a life/ baby et al.

Until then I have few reservations.

[neanderthal]

Conservatives are funny because they want fucking choices... Such as healthcare, vaccines... They don't want government mandating things telling them what to do, except this.

Liberals are funny because up until fetus/babies are born, separated from mommy, they just don't exist. It's okay to just mutilate or slaughter them. It's her body, she can do whatever she wants. However, once the baby is officially born, don't you even dare verbally discipline them using the slightest harsh words... Because that'd be child abuse! If you dare even touch the kid, I'll call the government to crack down on your ass! You don't know how to properly raise your kid, obviously government does!

Go figure.

You clearly don't know liberals. Or conservatives. Based on this post.

This explains a lot.

[neanderthal]

The Christmas before last I knew five people who were pregnant, and of those only two of the babies (one of them being Jonah) survived. The first to go had no heartbeat, which was sad, but the other two had to be aborted.

One of these was a case where the mother contracted CMV for the first time in the early stages of pregnancy, which is basically disasterous for a fetus. The child would have been born deaf, blind and severely mentally retarded and probably only survived a few years.

The other had spina bifida, but that information was being withheld from the mother as she lives with her husband in a Muslim country. The mother knew something wasn't right so she got herself checked out while in Australia over Christmas and, sure enough,

I don't understand why people would insist on bringing such children into the world. These are burdens that can easily break up marriages and ruin the lives of everyone involved. As far as I know, both women are trying to get pregnant again now. You can bet this would not be the case had they not had access to abortions - they'd instead be dealing with children that science is keeping alive as long as possible.

Fuck that pompous woman and her cross.

When I encounter ardent pro lifers I usually ask them how many children have they adopted. That shuts them up real quick.

When I encounter religious pro lifers I fuck them up by quoting the Bible to them.
"Whatsoever you have done to the least of these, surely you have done it unto me."
"Judge not lest ye be judged, for with the same measure that thou maketh your judgement shall you be judged." etc

[Yw-slayer]

Liberals are funny because up until fetus/babies are born, separated from mommy, they just don't exist. It's okay to just mutilate or slaughter them. It's her body, she can do whatever she wants.

I thought it was worth quoting this stuff just to troll the guys who have blocked Billi's posts. Also because I'm lost for words.

[Fogelhund]

I thought it was worth quoting this stuff just to troll the guys who have blocked Billi's posts. Also because I'm lost for words.

Sort of like half of the stuff Trump Inc. says.... you can't even make stuff like this up.

[speedpimp]

Pay attention to the lady on the left side. Who claps like that?!?

She learned to clap playing "Patty Cake"?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I thought it was worth quoting this stuff just to troll the guys who have blocked Billi's posts. Also because I'm lost for words.

Not trying to troll anyone. You need to find words to explain to me how does one become either an 'ardent' pro-lifer or a pro-choicer.

If you can't, then I believe I've made my case.

[Taimar]

Speaking of, how many people saying "Make America Great Again" are the same ones that used to say "Love it or leave it"?

Roofer sat right here in this group of people in 2003 that if I didn't support the Iraq war, I "must love Saddam" and "should go live in Iraq."

I countered by saying that it was a bad idea to invade Iraq that would have enormous unintended consequences, possibly destabilizing the entire region and almost certainly that chaos would create a power vacuum in which terrorists would flourish.

Again, "You love Saddam, and can just get out." No acknowledgement of any other point of view, no understanding of any nuance of the situation, and no appetite for critical thinking.

No points for guessing who he voted for in November, and we'll have to clean up their mess again this time, only this time it'll be even worse.

[MR2 Fan]

The biggest problem I see in U.S. politics is...binary thinking. A lot of people can't seem to grasp the concept of having more than 2 possible viewpoints!

(Didn't we learn from Obi Wan Kenobi?)

Anyway, my ponderous question for today...if Twitter decided suddenly to remove Trump and POTUS for having "hate" messages, would Trump have an aneurysm?

[Sad, little man]

http://thedailyquicky.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/mrpresident.gif

[Fogelhund]

Roofer sat right here in this group of people in 2003 that if I didn't support the Iraq war, I "must love Saddam" and "should go live in Iraq."

I countered by saying that it was a bad idea to invade Iraq that would have enormous unintended consequences, possibly destabilizing the entire region and almost certainly that chaos would create a power vacuum in which terrorists would flourish.

Again, "You love Saddam, and can just get out." No acknowledgement of any other point of view, no understanding of any nuance of the situation, and no appetite for critical thinking.

No points for guessing who he voted for in November, and we'll have to clean up their mess again this time, only this time it'll be even worse.

It would be interesting to dig that old post up. I don't recall much from it, outside of that most non-Americans came out against the actions in Iraq, including myself. There were a few Americans obviously that didn't think it was a great idea. You just can't go into a region, kill a bunch of innocent women and children, as collateral damage, walk away, and leave a power vacuum, and not expect that to come back and haunt you... and yet, the same stuff continues, but the pitch is it's the Muslim peoples faults. You should post more often, I like what you have to say, and how it's said.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Roofer sat right here in this group of people in 2003 that if I didn't support the Iraq war, I "must love Saddam" and "should go live in Iraq."

I countered by saying that it was a bad idea to invade Iraq that would have enormous unintended consequences, possibly destabilizing the entire region and almost certainly that chaos would create a power vacuum in which terrorists would flourish.

Again, "You love Saddam, and can just get out." No acknowledgement of any other point of view, no understanding of any nuance of the situation, and no appetite for critical thinking.

No points for guessing who he voted for in November, and we'll have to clean up their mess again this time, only this time it'll be even worse.

I think considering that it was the aftermath of 9/11, and our intelligence community or admin sells us fake news about WMD, any 'patriot' would 'feel' the urge to do something. Even Hillary would see eye to eye with roofer on that issue. So if Hillary can get a pass, maybe roofer can too? (Btw, I don't think I need any passes because I was never pro iraq war.)

When people get emotional, it's understandable rational thinking becomes hindered. Somebody baited us or perhaps it was just bush's personal vendetta... One way or another, we're suckered into that useless war. Real culprit isn't roofer, since roofer had no authority to start a war, the political establishment is to blame.

Political establishment is also responsible for the rise of Donald trump. But of course we can now squarely blame roofer for putting him into the White House!

Neanderthal may also want to blame me too, but whatever. I really don't believe Hillary would be much better. Considering her record. Her political experiences really has become more of a liability than asset.

[The359]

So many buzzwords... :blahblah:

[Taimar]

I think considering that it was the aftermath of 9/11, and our intelligence community or admin sells us fake news about WMD, any 'patriot' would 'feel' the urge to do something.

Even I supported the Afghan war. Because Al Queda orchestrated that attack and they were essentially helping the Taliban maintain control of Afghanistan in exchange for a base of operations.

But Iraq had nothing to do with it, and there was nothing linking Iraq to Al Queda. In fact, when the U.S. became belligerent about invading Iraq, Saddam had the most notable terrorist taking shelter in his country, Abu Nidal, killed.


I think considering that it was the aftermath of 9/11, and our intelligence community or admin sells us fake news about WMD, any 'patriot' would 'feel' the urge to do something. Even Hillary would see eye to eye with roofer on that issue. So if Hillary can get a pass, maybe roofer can too? (Btw, I don't think I need any passes because I was never pro iraq war.)

You know so little.

You know why Democrats of any kind voted for that war? Because ever since the 1970s, they'd been painted as being weak on national security. It was a popular war with considerable support. A gallup poll from March 24, 2003 reveals that 72% of the country was in favor of going to war in Iraq. Mostly because they'd been spoon fed lies about the reasoning behind it that we know were lies today. No Senator with ambitions is going to vote against something that popular, particularly if they've been called weak on defense in the past.

There's a context to everything.


When people get emotional, it's understandable rational thinking becomes hindered.

Clearly you're very emotional.


Somebody baited us or perhaps it was just bush's personal vendetta... One way or another, we're suckered into that useless war. Real culprit isn't roofer, since roofer had no authority to start a war, the political establishment is to blame.

No. The people to blame are Republican voters. Who put George W. Bush into office despite the choice of a FAR more qualified and prepared candidate on the other side, even if he was dull as dishwater and an obnoxious snob. They voted for George W. Bush because he "seemed like a guy you could have a beer with." Remember that?

And now they've done even worse. Despite every rational argument and the past experience of lots of people dealing with Donald Trump, now they've foisted that disaster on us just as we were cleaning up their last huge mess. How long do we have to keep cleaning up the chaos they create, most of which is based on a sort of first grader's understanding of government and a logical pretzel of half truths and intellectually bankrupt ideas?

By the time we're done dealing with Donald's mess, best case scenario, I'll be in my fifties.


I really don't believe Hillary would be much better. Considering her record. Her political experiences really has become more of a liability than asset.

Yeah, that's because you have no idea what you're talking about. As usual.

Tell me, really, does day 22 of a Hillary Clinton administration look as dismal and disastrous as where we are now with the current "administration"? In my wildest nightmares I can't picture that.

She was my senator. I voted for her twice. I've actually met one of the people who wanted to run against her who's now a fox news host (Jeanine Pirro). She did a good job as a Senator and she'd do a good job as President.

She is not somebody I particularly like or have warm feelings about, or who I think would do all the things I want done. But you never get 100% of what you want. Ever.

[neanderthal]

Billi doesn't understand what you have said. He has an idea in his mind of what is and what isn't. It's fixed.

How the idea is formed is beyond me. Beyond most of us, quite frankly.

There, apparently, is intake of information, and a process, one I imagine resembles a trash truck accumulating trash and then spitting it out. And a monkey sitting in a chair, reading the detritus as a palm reader would read a technical manual for the propulsion system of the latest missile system. Written in Hindi.

The end result is the same male bovine fecal matter.

[Yw-slayer]

Not trying to troll anyone. You need to find words to explain to me how does one become either an 'ardent' pro-lifer or a pro-choicer.

If you can't, then I believe I've made my case.

I don't know (partly because I really don't know what the point was that you are making) or care what your "case" is, and I don't need to "find" anything or "explain" anything to you for any reason.

[Sad, little man]

Wait wait wait..... Germany has a president!? :eek:

[Cam]

The roofing man was never sincere about anything. He is a troll, plain and simple.

[Yw-slayer]

The roofing man was never sincere about anything. He is a troll, plain and simple.

Well, he might have been (and still is?) sincere in his belief that his views were correct.

[drew]

I'm trying to figure out what the fuck Hillary has to do with any of the shit going on right now?

She's for all intents and purposes, gone.


Seriously, what the fuck does it have to do with anything.



Alex, I recently chopped the roofing man from my contacts (all, phone/email/FB), due to his utter lack of seeing anything beyond his nose/Fox News. It's sad that someone can't see counter points or objective opinion as anything but a personal attack. The final straw for me, was touting that Snopes and Politifact were "fake", and he backed it up with an article from "youngcons".


The irony was almost palpable.

As for the hardened DJT supporter, I got a prime example of it yesterday from someone in my home town:
2242

[Cam]

What you guys seem to not understand is that trolls will intentionally talk shit just to rouse your ire. Their intent is not to have reasonable dialogue. They only seek attention. Ignoring them makes them go away because it ruins their "fun."

[drew]

Yeah, I get that. But, knowing him for 15 years, and looking back, his debating/discussion tactics were always like that.

As for that douchenozzle in the screen shot, I barely know that guy, not real sure why he's a "friend". I'll chalk it up to a drunken "accept" mistake.

But in any case, he's the prime example of the DJT troll/supporter.


I have a guess that he hasn't even watched the news about anything since his guy "won", since that's all that matters. Meanwhile, his guy is churning a cauldron of incompetent propaganda mixed with a cup of trainwreck and a dash of clusterfuck.

[Tom Servo]

Stephen Miller's getting some attention here, he came from Santa Monica and a friend of mine used to be friends with him. Miller was friends with him until they went to high school, when Miller told my friend they could no longer be friends because he couldn't be friends with a Latino.

Someone tracked down his letter to the local Santa Monica paper from when he was sixteen.

http://www.surfsantamonica.com/ssm_site/the_lookout/letters/Letters-2002/MARCH_2002/03_27_2002_Political_Correctness_Out_of_Control.ht m

[21Kid]

I thought it was worth quoting this stuff just to troll the guys who have blocked Billi's posts. Also because I'm lost for words. Wait? :?: That isn't satire?

[Yw-slayer]

Apparently not.

[Phil_SS]

I spent more time with John (Roofer) than anybody else and he has always had those point of views. He is a good person who would give the shirt off his back or help anybody in anyway that he could if you asked him for his help.

So while I don't see eye to eye with him on many things he will remain my friend. I don't throw my friends away just because they don't believe the same things I do with some expectations of course.

I also don't believe in saying things behind a friends back when they aren't there to defend themselves. So I ask that you refrain from any mudslinging on John's behalf.

[drew]

I'm not mudslinging Phil, he just started going at other friends (and family/sister) about stuff, and thought it would just be best to avoid that interaction going forward.

I agree with your assessment about him, it's just that he doesn't seem to even humor someone else's opinion on something, resulting in him seemingly taking it personally that you're against him.

Remember the "prison island" conversation?

I have not called him any names, I have not said that he's a bad person (or any other variant), just that his extreme passion in his ideas and beliefs and apparent unwillingness to entertain anything to the contrary, made it all but impossible to have what I would consider a constructive conversation with him.


Fucking politics.... up until this year, this is exactly why I never discussed it, with anyone. Because this kind of shit happens.

[Cam]

The roofing man had his account suspended at the old forum at one point due to his trolling. That's not mudslinging or an alternate fact. That's just what happened.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Cam, you also said he was never sincere about anything. That WAS alternate fact.

Point is, since he's gone, stop talking about him here. If he bugs you on FB, tell him to please stop, if he doesn't get it, you can delete him too.

Be a friend... or let him be part of history. Phil just doesn't want folks to talk about his friend behind his back. Personally, I also don't like that.

[Cam]

I won't mention him again.

[Freude am Fahren]

So I guess discussing national and international security issues openly in public is fine, just don't involve a private server.

http://theslot.jezebel.com/mar-a-lago-members-got-a-front-row-seat-to-trumps-nucle-1792299754

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--itDz1NaR--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/kromkgzfyjfbmuk6spgy.png

[Crazed_Insanity]

Even I supported the Afghan war. Because Al Queda orchestrated that attack and they were essentially helping the Taliban maintain control of Afghanistan in exchange for a base of operations.
Yeah? Me too. I wasn't against that. Kicking some Taliban's butt was probably the only course of action we could take legitimately and to let off some of our steam.


But Iraq had nothing to do with it, and there was nothing linking Iraq to Al Queda. In fact, when the U.S. became belligerent about invading Iraq, Saddam had the most notable terrorist taking shelter in his country, Abu Nidal, killed.
You're preaching to the choir!


You know so little.
Never claim to be a know it all, but it is really necessary to belittle Billi all the time? You can easily demonstrate your vast knowledge over me without including this sentence..., but anyway...


You know why Democrats of any kind voted for that war? Because ever since the 1970s, they'd been painted as being weak on national security. It was a popular war with considerable support. A gallup poll from March 24, 2003 reveals that 72% of the country was in favor of going to war in Iraq. Mostly because they'd been spoon fed lies about the reasoning behind it that we know were lies today. No Senator with ambitions is going to vote against something that popular, particularly if they've been called weak on defense in the past.

There's a context to everything.
How do you know that I didn't know about this context? Of course there were pressure to invade... given the intel and angry American mob wanting to strike somebody... it's perfectly understandable that a politician would want to yield to popular opinion and the intelligence report.

But then, why didn't Bernie Sanders go with the herd? I don't think he is without ambition, he just has more integrity.



Clearly you're very emotional.
Yes, I'm human. I can certainly be emotional at times. When a liberal got emotional and made a wrong decision, you offer her a pass. Asking me to examine the context. However, if a conservative gets emotional, will you give him the same pass?



No. The people to blame are Republican voters. Who put George W. Bush into office despite the choice of a FAR more qualified and prepared candidate on the other side, even if he was dull as dishwater and an obnoxious snob. They voted for George W. Bush because he "seemed like a guy you could have a beer with." Remember that?
Yes, I do. If only Al Gore could win his home state, he could've easily taken over the white house. But he couldn't even win his HOME STATE!!!


And now they've done even worse. Despite every rational argument and the past experience of lots of people dealing with Donald Trump, now they've foisted that disaster on us just as we were cleaning up their last huge mess. How long do we have to keep cleaning up the chaos they create, most of which is based on a sort of first grader's understanding of government and a logical pretzel of half truths and intellectually bankrupt ideas?
Okay, no argument from me here...


Yeah, that's because you have no idea what you're talking about. As usual.

Tell me, really, does day 22 of a Hillary Clinton administration look as dismal and disastrous as where we are now with the current "administration"? In my wildest nightmares I can't picture that.
I agree.


She was my senator. I voted for her twice. I've actually met one of the people who wanted to run against her who's now a fox news host (Jeanine Pirro). She did a good job as a Senator and she'd do a good job as President.

She is not somebody I particularly like or have warm feelings about, or who I think would do all the things I want done. But you never get 100% of what you want. Ever.
Again, I concur. She'll for sure be a more presentable/presidential president, similar to Obama.

I guess she lost people like me not really because of her, but because of Bernie. He really opened my eyes... that even under the Obama Admin, the rich still got richer and the blacks still don't matter. Hillary for sure won't be the one to rectify those problems. She also could've easily won my vote had she included someone more anti-established for vp... maybe she was thinking since you guys are Bernie or bust... and since I'm not Bernie so you guys might as well just go bust?

America really deserves somebody better than those 2 candidates.

If I were in a swing state, at the time of election, I'd still vote for a Jill Stein.

If I were in a swing state and can travel back in time, of course I'd vote for Hillary.

But I live in CA, so it matters not how I voted.

Besides demonstrating intellectual superiority, democrats also need to learn to be able to emotionally connect to voters. Bill Clinton did it. So did Obama.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't know (partly because I really don't know what the point was that you are making) or care what your "case" is, and I don't need to "find" anything or "explain" anything to you for any reason.

Okay, my bad, I shouldn't have said 'explain to me', but you definitely need to explain to yourself why must one become an ardent pro-whatever and be so sure about the opposition is just plain wrong.

The abortion issue cannot be simplified by these political ideologies.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Political views are more based on our genes than our environment?

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/opinion/thomas-edsall-how-much-do-our-genes-influence-our-political-beliefs.html?_r=0

If this is true, political debates intend on changing opposition's minds just won't be possible. It also makes little sense to be so mad at people for their political views..., we just need to learn to get along... to achieve true diversity.

[MR2 Fan]

So I guess discussing national and international security issues openly in public is fine, just don't involve a private server.

http://theslot.jezebel.com/mar-a-lago-members-got-a-front-row-seat-to-trumps-nucle-1792299754

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--itDz1NaR--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/kromkgzfyjfbmuk6spgy.png


That genius also took a photo with the person in charge of the nuclear "football" and posted it on facebook. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY CLUE HOW TO RUN A GOVERNMENT THERE?? (Rhetorical)

[Kchrpm]

If this is true, political debates intend on changing opposition's minds just won't be possible. It also makes little sense to be so mad at people for their political views..., we just need to learn to get along... to achieve true diversity.

What you are genetically pre-conditioned to think and do does not define what you must do. You can use knowledge, experience, and critical thinking to go against your genetic and biological predispositions.

And regardless of what you believe and who you agree with, learning to get along requires allowing other people to live how they believe they should live. When your political beliefs require that others act in accordance to your own religious beliefs, and not there own, you're not going to get along.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What you are genetically pre-conditioned to think and do does not define what you must do. You can use knowledge, experience, and critical thinking to go against your genetic and biological predispositions.

And regardless of what you believe and who you agree with, learning to get along requires allowing other people to live how they believe they should live. When your political beliefs require that others act in accordance to your own religious beliefs, and not there own, you're not going to get along.

I think the founding fathers had sufficient foresight to draft a constitution to help us get along. As far as I know, our constitution protects all of us to be able to practice our own religions or non-religion.

IMHO, so what if a public building has on display a bible? Or a flag that has a cross? Our government does NOT force people to goto Christian churches. These symbols are religious symbols, yes, but they are also part of our history. Why must we eradicate our own historical roots? Freedom of religion isn't freedom from religion.

Or prayers in schools. If you don't pray, will the school discipline you? If yes, then that's a clear violation of our very own constitution. If you forbid christian teachers and children from praying, then aren't you violating their faith?

Anyway, these practices are negotiable... we all need to make compromises in order to get along, it's unfortunate that our political ideologies has became so extreme and we've became so easily ticked off...

[FaultyMario]

I agree with Phil, but i see no ill words being used, so let's just leave it at that before it gets ugly.


And Servo, who is that Miller guy?

[Kchrpm]

I'm talking about people that say xyz can't get married because their religious beliefs are against it.

Prayer in school comes in different forms. If it's the teacher leading a prayer that everyone is meant to join in on, that's forcing a specific religion. If it's a moment allowed for silent reflection, thought or prayer, that's allowing all religions.

A government building displaying the text of one religion, and not of any others, is elevating that religion in comparison to the others. A simple solution would be that, rather than having a single display of a single artifact of any religion, is having a religious observance room that allows and explains articles from any religion that the citizens governed by that building choose to donate.

And yes, freedom of religion *should* be freedom FROM religion. It should not be inferred, directly or indirectly, that any one religion, or lack of religion, is better or worse than all other belief systems.

These are the kinds of compromises that need to be made, taking the most popular things, historically and percentages-wise now, and taking them off their pedestals so that they are on even footing with all others. This is seen by those on the pedestals as punishing them, removing their freedoms, when in fact it is merely giving them the same opportunity afforded to everyone else.

[drew]

Keith, will you marry me?

[Kchrpm]

A Honda-lover? Gross.

[Freude am Fahren]

:lol:

Hondaphobe.

[drew]

:(

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm talking about people that say xyz can't get married because their religious beliefs are against it.
There can be many different camps of homophobes..., but I do believe most religious folks just wish to honor the traditional marriage by keeping it traditional. I don't believe most Christians are intending to just ban gays from forming their own unions. But anyway, we've exhaustively discussed this, no point rehashing it again and again, but as you can clearly see, rational reasoning can win over genetic predispositions. We have recently legalized same sex marriages, right?


Prayer in school comes in different forms. If it's the teacher leading a prayer that everyone is meant to join in on, that's forcing a specific religion. If it's a moment allowed for silent reflection, thought or prayer, that's allowing all religions.
I don't have to join in any prayer/conversation if I don't have/want to. Nobody can force me to do anything.


A government building displaying the text of one religion, and not of any others, is elevating that religion in comparison to the others. A simple solution would be that, rather than having a single display of a single artifact of any religion, is having a religious observance room that allows and explains articles from any religion that the citizens governed by that building choose to donate.

Yes, but that's only because this nation historically started out this way. It's as if we need to ask the Greece government to either cover up all of their Greek mythological figures and not even mention them in history books... or else they'll have to create sculptures of all mythical creatures in order to be fair. Let kids learn all mythologies so that they can pick and choose which mythology they want to adopt... Com'on. Is that really necessary?



And yes, freedom of religion *should* be freedom FROM religion. It should not be inferred, directly or indirectly, that any one religion, or lack of religion, is better or worse than all other belief systems.
By forbidding any religious symbols..., you are directly indirectly telling folks that atheism is superior.
There's no single solution that can satisfy everybody.
People just need to learn to chill if they end up with a situation that's not to their liking.

No matter how I dislike something, at least nobody can force me to love or give up the God or lack of God of your choice.


These are the kinds of compromises that need to be made, taking the most popular things, historically and percentages-wise now, and taking them off their pedestals so that they are on even footing with all others. This is seen by those on the pedestals as punishing them, removing their freedoms, when in fact it is merely giving them the same opportunity afforded to everyone else.
Yes, you have to understand that is their perspective and need to tread cautiously to not offend others too much.. In CA for example, we need to incorporate LGBT history, but we need to pretend christianity had zero influences to our nation/state's history. That might sound fair to you, but not to my genes nor to my minimal critical thinking ability. Is there really a need to 'filter' history in the name of 'freedom of/from religion'? If your genes led you to believe that is reasonable and fair..., then that's that I guess. Let's just agree to disagree, but we still have to learn to get along without harboring the desire to give each other the finger or the cross with dead Jesus on it.

[Kchrpm]

I don't have to join in any prayer/conversation if I don't have/want to. Nobody can force me to do anything.
If you're a child in school, they can and do tell you what to do and say. The punishment for not doing it is up to the teacher/school. Even if there is no punishment, the other children will notice and point out when one person isn't following instructions, either to the teacher or in the social groups. You're setting up children in minority religions to be ostracized.


Let kids learn all mythologies so that they can pick and choose which mythology they want to adopt... Com'on. Is that really necessary?
Yes, that's exactly what should or at least could happen, except there's not necessarily a need to adopt any of them. We're taught about multiple types of artistic movements and musical movements, why not be taught multiple types of religious movements? It's not about saying that any of them are right or wrong, just that they existed as part of the tapestry of human history.


By forbidding any religious symbols..., you are directly indirectly telling folks that atheism is superior.
There's no single solution that can satisfy everybody.
Either forbid them all or allow them all. Pretty simple IMO.


People just need to learn to chill if they end up with a situation that's not to their liking.
This has been said by those in the ruling/majority class for likely the history of human society.


In CA for example, we need to incorporate LGBT history, but we need to pretend christianity had zero influences to our nation/state's history. That might sound fair to you
It does not. The influences of all people from all categories should be included, positive and negative. Most likely it will not be done perfectly at first, people will overcorrect as they aim for the proper balance, but the frequency and amplitude of the sine wave will continue to shrink until we are nearly there. We shouldn't just give up trying because we aren't there yet.

[Tom Servo]

I agree with Phil, but i see no ill words being used, so let's just leave it at that before it gets ugly.


And Servo, who is that Miller guy?

I don't agree, but will respect those wishes. I haven't seen anything here that's calling him any sort of name or inferring anything about his character, they're purely repeating what is/was publicly available (some of the older gtx sites are no longer available, I'd imagine, except maybe through the wayback machine). All of you are welcome to friend me on Facebook if you want to see any of the comment threads he's been involved in to verify. Like I said though, that'll be it. I used to feel the same way about the guy that Phil does many years ago. I wish that hadn't changed, but it is what it is.

Miller is, like Bannon, one of Trump's advisors. He apparently used to work for Jeff Sessions down in Alabama. He also was in cahoots with Richard Spencer for a while, though to his credit Spencer doesn't think he's white nationalist enough to be part of his club. He firmly believes (or claims to) that voter fraud is rampant. The more cynical among us might think that he's just trying to lay the groundwork for voter suppression farther down the line, presumably to boost Trump's chances at re-election.

[Tom Servo]

I don't have to join in any prayer/conversation if I don't have/want to. Nobody can force me to do anything.

I can tell you that for 8 year old atheist me, it sure didn't feel like I wasn't being forced to recite "under god" in the pledge of allegiance every morning, considering I was told I'd go to detention every day until I did start saying it.


but we need to pretend christianity had zero influences to our nation/state's history.

Citation needed, please. I sure don't remember this. I don't remember them claiming that Junipero Serra was agnostic.

[21Kid]

:up: Keith

[Crazed_Insanity]

I can tell you that for 8 year old atheist me, it sure didn't feel like I wasn't being forced to recite "under god" in the pledge of allegiance every morning, considering I was told I'd go to detention every day until I did start saying it.
That is clearly religious and political persecution. You should've asked your parents... or if you had christian parents, then you probably just need to hire an atheistic lawyer to take it up all the way to supreme court! :p

Seriously, the law is on your side.

And semi-seriously, do you really wish to seek political and religious asylum in another nation because of such persecutions?

How did people figure out you aren't saying under God? You can also easily avoided persecution by murmuring something else other than God if that is so important to you... or if it's really that important to you, just got to detention everyday for that. That's certain what I'd do if I feel like they're forcing me to say one nation under Satan! I'd gladly sit at detention everyday... but most importantly, I think I'd fight this using our nation's constitution when I'm an adult.

I don't think this is happening today? I guess I'll find out when my daughter goes to school.


Citation needed, please. I sure don't remember this. I don't remember them claiming that Junipero Serra was agnostic.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-lgbt-curriculum-california-20160714-snap-story.html
CA student will soon learn MORE LGBT history in schools. Not that I have anything against learning about LGBT struggles over the years, but imagine Christians asking for MORE Christian history in school? Imagine the outrage.

Also, we may learn that Dr. King was a Christian preacher, but surely the history books will never add anymore christian influences than that. As if God can only influence Americans to ruin lives... such as prevent same sex marriages and slavery or manifest destiny..., but God can't really influence folks to fight for justice. God had nothing to do with the civil rights movements. Anything bad we can blame the Christians and their bogus God, anything good, we down play the significance of their faith.

[Tom Servo]

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-lgbt-curriculum-california-20160714-snap-story.html
CA student will soon learn MORE LGBT history in schools. Not that I have anything against learning about LGBT struggles over the years, but imagine Christians asking for MORE Christian history in school? Imagine the outrage.

Huh, so learning more about LGBT history, which traditionally hasn't been covered much at all in schools, is pretending Christianity doesn't exist?

Keith put it better than I would:


These are the kinds of compromises that need to be made, taking the most popular things, historically and percentages-wise now, and taking them off their pedestals so that they are on even footing with all others. This is seen by those on the pedestals as punishing them, removing their freedoms, when in fact it is merely giving them the same opportunity afforded to everyone else.

It reminds me of someone's opinion I was reading not too long ago, that the only people discriminated against now are straight white males. It's hard to argue that when, for instance, all but one president of this country was a straight white male, and the other one was still a straight male.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If you're a child in school, they can and do tell you what to do and say. The punishment for not doing it is up to the teacher/school. Even if there is no punishment, the other children will notice and point out when one person isn't following instructions, either to the teacher or in the social groups. You're setting up children in minority religions to be ostracized.
Hey, when you don't conform to the herd, you'll get ostracized. You don't need religion for that... and you don't need to be a kid for that. This forum is full of adults and Billi is not a kid.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not crying victim here. It is just the way it is. I fully understand. No hard feelings from me.


Yes, that's exactly what should or at least could happen, except there's not necessarily a need to adopt any of them. We're taught about multiple types of artistic movements and musical movements, why not be taught multiple types of religious movements? It's not about saying that any of them are right or wrong, just that they existed as part of the tapestry of human history.
Nothing against that, but it probably should be more of a college level course... rather than cramming our kids with all kinds of FSM's...



Either forbid them all or allow them all. Pretty simple IMO.
Yes, very simple for a computer, either 0 or 1. Or as Swervo always tend to think of me as either black or white and nothing in between.
Unfortunately real world is rarely this simple.



This has been said by those in the ruling/majority class for likely the history of human society.
Yeah, of course, unless you think minority rule is better? Actually we have that now too. Trump won 48% of the votes and he still get to rule. Yipee!
Either way, the losing side just need to learn to chill and try to make the best of it.


It does not. The influences of all people from all categories should be included, positive and negative. Most likely it will not be done perfectly at first, people will overcorrect as they aim for the proper balance, but the frequency and amplitude of the sine wave will continue to shrink until we are nearly there. We shouldn't just give up trying because we aren't there yet.
I agree. I can understand things won't be perfect at first. I'm not going to protest like some Christians do about our textbooks to have MORE LGBT history, but I do hate the reality that most Californians hate Jesus. Still, I'm still chill.

If Jesus is indeed the absolutely Truth that he claims he is, he doesn't need me to defend him. No matter how people crucify him, he will remain what he is... supposedly forever and ever.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Huh, so learning more about LGBT history, which traditionally hasn't been covered much at all in schools, is pretending Christianity doesn't exist?


Anyway, what have you learned about Christianity in public schools? Remember anything positive? I've only started attending Jr high when I 1st came to the US and that's when I was still barely speaking english... so don't remember much. Even in high school, I don't recall learning anything positive about Christianity... mostly just the negative stuffs.

[Yw-slayer]

Okay, my bad, I shouldn't have said 'explain to me', but you definitely need to explain to yourself why must one become an ardent pro-whatever and be so sure about the opposition is just plain wrong.

The abortion issue cannot be simplified by these political ideologies.

I don't need to explain anything to anyone.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't need to explain anything to anyone.
Ok.

But if you wish to troll those who blocked me in the future, please generate your own trolling content.

Political discussions are hard enough as it is, don't need anymore trolls.

[Tom Servo]

Anyway, what have you learned about Christianity in public schools? Remember anything positive? I've only started attending Jr high when I 1st came to the US and that's when I was still barely speaking english... so don't remember much. Even in high school, I don't recall learning anything positive about Christianity... mostly just the negative stuffs.

I didn't learn much about Christianity early on in public schools. I also didn't learn much about Islam, or Judaism, or Buddhism, or Shinto, or... I didn't learn anything particularly negative either. Given the overall religious makeup of my school, though, I don't think a lack of in-school indoctrination hurt the cause of Christianity very much.

I did read a good portion of the bible for AP Lit in high school. I remember my Spanish teacher was pretty religious too, as was my drama teacher.

[Yw-slayer]

Ok.

But if you wish to troll those who blocked me in the future, please generate your own trolling content.

Political discussions are hard enough as it is, don't need anymore trolls.

I don't have to do anything you say.

:lol:

[Cam]

What was I saying about trolls?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Should be slayed.

[Yw-slayer]

What was I saying about trolls?

I won't deny it, I'm a straight ridah

[Crazed_Insanity]

I didn't learn much about Christianity early on in public schools. I also didn't learn much about Islam, or Judaism, or Buddhism, or Shinto, or... I didn't learn anything particularly negative either. Given the overall religious makeup of my school, though, I don't think a lack of in-school indoctrination hurt the cause of Christianity very much.

I did read a good portion of the bible for AP Lit in high school. I remember my Spanish teacher was pretty religious too, as was my drama teacher.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for in-school indoctrinations, I do agree schools are not churches.

Maybe it just my personal experiences, it's just that I don't think any of my history classes taught me anything good about Christianity. The only thing I found respectable was the idea that all men were created 'equal', but I found that founding fathers thought that humans were 'created' to be a pretty backwards thinking... I learned the pledge of allegiance not knowing what I was saying at the time, once I figured it out, I remember thinking that this nation is too full of itself... ;)

Anyway, I suspect had I immigrated to southern states, my experiences might be different.

[neanderthal]

...I guess she lost people like me not really because of her, but because of Bernie. He really opened my eyes... that even under the Obama Admin, the rich still got richer and the blacks still don't matter...

Get the fuck out of here.
You don't give a single, solitary, shit about black people. You don't give half a shit about black people. You don't give an imaginary shit about black people.
And if you think you do then throwing away your vote is pathetic way of demonstrating your solidarity.

Wearing a fucking safety pin is NOT a sign of solidarity. It's a symbol that people who don't want to do anything but want to appear to be doing something, choose to do. Much like christians offering to pray for someone. Rather than offering actual assistance.

Stop trying to pretend you're standing with us. You ain't.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Never claimed that I'm standing with you. If I were, you wouldn't be this upset. You are way more liberal than I am.

However, since I'm not really standing with you, you end up putting me in the same league as kkk or the nazis. That ain't right either. But this kind of shit tend to happen when we adopt certain ideologies.

I'm not black and I'm not poor. Hillary really would be a better candidate for my family if I really don't give a damn about blacks and the poor. Actually, since I'm Christian, the newly born again trump probably would be better for my family too...

But I just love this atheistic Bernie too much. He opened my eyes and I'm not looking back to settle for the lesser of the two evils anymore.

[Sad, little man]

It's all gonna be ok everyone. We can stop all the debates and protests. Mother nature is going to work it all out...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/science/nasa-warns-peanut-shaped-asteroid-9810339

You're right Billi, there is a god. :up:

[Tom Servo]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for in-school indoctrinations, I do agree schools are not churches.

Maybe it just my personal experiences, it's just that I don't think any of my history classes taught me anything good about Christianity. The only thing I found respectable was the idea that all men were created 'equal', but I found that founding fathers thought that humans were 'created' to be a pretty backwards thinking... I learned the pledge of allegiance not knowing what I was saying at the time, once I figured it out, I remember thinking that this nation is too full of itself... ;)

Anyway, I suspect had I immigrated to southern states, my experiences might be different.

Outside of a social studies aspect of how religion in general most likely helped man create civilizations and get many people on board with a rule of law, what would you expect history classes to teach on the goodness of Christianity? Given a history class, is it its job to find something redeeming about Christianity? It might be that Christianity (or any religion) may have a good effect on an individual, but on a broader historical level it often has a negative effect. It might not be as well, but what would you pick as as something that belongs as part of a world history class that explains the positives of Christianity? In fairness, I say this as believing that Christianity, like all major religions, has had positive effects. I also find that "Everything's fine" is often a chapter left out of history books, as it's not particularly interesting.

Agreed about the pledge. I learned to be suspicious of it when I was old enough to understand what the under God part meant (though not old enough to lawyer up - I will admit that my eight year old self wasn't exactly ready to take my teacher to court and really didn't want to have to stay after school), then I got a lot more suspicious when it struck me as a way to get me not to ask questions that I thought would make the world around me better.

[Tom Servo]

In other news, Flynn's resigned. Six hours after Conway told everyone that everything was fine, and the same day the Kremlin denied the talks that were his downfall had taken place.

[neanderthal]

Never claimed that I'm standing with you. If I were, you wouldn't be this upset. You are way more liberal than I am.

However, since I'm not really standing with you, you end up putting me in the same league as kkk or the nazis. That ain't right either. But this kind of shit tend to happen when we adopt certain ideologies.

I'm not black and I'm not poor. Hillary really would be a better candidate for my family if I really don't give a damn about blacks and the poor. Actually, since I'm Christian, the newly born again trump probably would be better for my family too...

But I just love this atheistic Bernie too much. He opened my eyes and I'm not looking back to settle for the lesser of the two evils anymore.

In discussing what turned you off Hillary don't invoke black lives (not) matter(ing) after saying "Bernie opened your eyes." Because Bernie was outspoken about BLM and stood in true solidarity. If your eyes were truly opened you'd have voted in solidarity with ALL minorities, the handicapped, women, intersex, the economy, ecology and fucking Big Bird.

[21Kid]

Well... that was a waste of a page and a half.

[Freude am Fahren]

It's all gonna be ok everyone. We can stop all the debates and protests. Mother nature is going to work it all out...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/science/nasa-warns-peanut-shaped-asteroid-9810339

You're right Billi, there is a god. :up:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/9/92/WOOHOO.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120102043236

[MR2 Fan]

It's all gonna be ok everyone. We can stop all the debates and protests. Mother nature is going to work it all out...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/science/nasa-warns-peanut-shaped-asteroid-9810339

You're right Billi, there is a god. :up:

From that article

""An asteroid impact, unlike other natural catastrophes, can actually be avoided."

NASA has an asteroid early warning system called Scout in place. Within 10 minutes of spotting an incoming asteroid it can project potential flight paths.

It alerts three other telescopes to perform follow-up observations and narrow down a rock's trajectory.

"When a telescope first finds a moving object, all you know is it's just a dot, moving on the sky. You have no information about how far away it is," astronomer Paul Chodas from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, which runs the Scout program, told NPR.

"The more telescopes you get pointed at an object, the more data you get, and the more sure you are how big it is and which way it's headed. But sometimes you don't have a lot of time to make those observations."

Scout is designed to keep track of so-called "Near Earth Objects", and identify those that could potentially be on a collision course with Earth, so NASA can respond."




So um...HOW exactly can NASA respond? That isn't really explained.

[Freude am Fahren]

We find some roughnecks and drill an a-bomb into it, duh.

Seriously though, maybe some small ones we could obliterate with some nukes, but any big enough to end the planet would probably be unavoidable.

[21Kid]

GOP Senate Intel Member: Exhaustive investigation into Trump-Russia connections needed (http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/14/politics/kfile-roy-blunt-flynn-investigation/index.html) following Flynn resignation

[MR2 Fan]

the dominoes are beginning to fall....the question is, how far will it all go?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Outside of a social studies aspect of how religion in general most likely helped man create civilizations and get many people on board with a rule of law, what would you expect history classes to teach on the goodness of Christianity? Given a history class, is it its job to find something redeeming about Christianity? It might be that Christianity (or any religion) may have a good effect on an individual, but on a broader historical level it often has a negative effect. It might not be as well, but what would you pick as as something that belongs as part of a world history class that explains the positives of Christianity? In fairness, I say this as believing that Christianity, like all major religions, has had positive effects. I also find that "Everything's fine" is often a chapter left out of history books, as it's not particularly interesting.


Yeah, I have to admit that there's no easy way to incorporate the good of Christianity without making it sound too preachy for non-christians. However, perhaps there can be a more balanced approach to the teaching of for stuff like slavery and manifest destiny. It does seem like that we are shifting more of the blame to God or Christians than truly accept responsibility of our failings. Americans justified their evil doings under the guise of Christ..., but in reality, people were driven by their personal motives while hiding "under God". Just as homophobes can hate gays without Jesus, but it's more convenient to hide behind the bible justifying their hatred toward gays... Anyway, I just felt Christianity unfairly received bad rap for American's own issues...

Bottomline is that in CA, there's no way in heaven that we can ask for MORE Christian history in classes. The seemingly relentless pursue to remove religious artifacts/symbols/phrases in public places or flags is also too much IMHO. However, I'm ok with that. At least they can't touch the churches... and at least I can still freely pray at home and say Merry Christmas to fellow Christians. At least my own religious freedom is still protected..., that's all that matters.

[Crazed_Insanity]

In discussing what turned you off Hillary don't invoke black lives (not) matter(ing) after saying "Bernie opened your eyes." Because Bernie was outspoken about BLM and stood in true solidarity. If your eyes were truly opened you'd have voted in solidarity with ALL minorities, the handicapped, women, intersex, the economy, ecology and fucking Big Bird.

So Jill Stein is against minorities, handicapped, women, intersex, the economy, ecology and the big bird?

If I'm not standing with you, I'm against you? If I don't share your ideology then I should just leave and move back to Taiwan?

Honestly dude. Take a chill pill.

[Crazed_Insanity]

the dominoes are beginning to fall....the question is, how far will it all go?

Hopefully all the way, but I doubt it.

Anyway, do you guys really want Pence taking over? Or even the next in line?

So it doesn't really matter how far it falls, the end game will be similar.

I'm just hoping these guys won't cause too much damage over the next 4 years... and hopefully DNC come up with somebody more appealing...

Of course in the unlikely event of America becoming great again, I'd gladly take that too. Then I'll be in line to vote for him to keep America great!

[novicius]

the dominoes are beginning to fall....the question is, how far will it all go?
Trump will ignore it or settle (plea bargain) out of it. No way he gets nailed.

[Rikadyn]

We find some roughnecks and drill an a-bomb into it, duh.

Seriously though, maybe some small ones we could obliterate with some nukes, but any big enough to end the planet would probably be unavoidable.

My guess is, they meant predictable, not avoidable.

[speedpimp]

What was I saying about trolls?

They're always hanging out under bridges?

[Jason]

the dominoes are beginning to fall....the question is, how far will it all go?

We'll all 'forget' about it within a week. The GOP isn't going to be giving this the same treatment as BENGHAZI for obvious reasons.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, I have to admit that there's no easy way to incorporate the good of Christianity without making it sound too preachy for non-christians. However, perhaps there can be a more balanced approach to the teaching of for stuff like slavery and manifest destiny. It does seem like that we are shifting more of the blame to God or Christians than truly accept responsibility of our failings. Americans justified their evil doings under the guise of Christ..., but in reality, people were driven by their personal motives while hiding "under God". Just as homophobes can hate gays without Jesus, but it's more convenient to hide behind the bible justifying their hatred toward gays... Anyway, I just felt Christianity unfairly received bad rap for American's own issues...

I don't spend a lot of time in churches and have never identified as anything other than an atheist, and I never got an anti-Christianity message from history books. I got a vibe that a great many leaders enjoyed using religion as a bludgeon, or used it to justify their own ends, and given that our history books tend to be mostly about western Europe and North America, it tends to follow that most of the time that religion tends to be Christianity. I never understood it as something specific to Christianity itself.


Bottomline is that in CA, there's no way in heaven that we can ask for MORE Christian history in classes. The seemingly relentless pursue to remove religious artifacts/symbols/phrases in public places or flags is also too much IMHO. However, I'm ok with that. At least they can't touch the churches... and at least I can still freely pray at home and say Merry Christmas to fellow Christians. At least my own religious freedom is still protected..., that's all that matters.

You can't ask for more of it because it's already most of it. It's the same reason why "white pride" is bad. Pretty much every day in this country is white, straight, Christian male day. It's not underrepresented. I also never once saw a person chastised for praying at my public school. A teacher would be chastised for leading a prayer, at least as part of an official class thing. My drama teacher regularly lead a prayer before performances but never expected that everyone join in on it. I see people praying or doing the sign of the cross all the time in public and nobody says anything about it. All people don't want to see are public entities essentially saying "this religion is the real one". Even that's hazy, as the president is still sworn in on a bible. Christmas is still the only religious holiday that's a federal holiday. The 113th congress was 89% Christian, which is actually overrepresentation as the population of the US is 70.6%.

I'm not sure where you get this feeling that Christianity is so put-upon in this country, but as a non-Christian, I can't say that I'm seeing it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm not sure where you get this feeling that Christianity is so put-upon in this country, but as a non-Christian, I can't say that I'm seeing it.

Anyway, we can only speak for ourselves. We all wear different color lenses, living in different geographical locations and have different set of genes.

Neither side will ever agree on everything, but we just need to learn how to get along somehow.

Believers can rest assured that God will prevail..., if He is the absolute Truth that He claimed He is...

Unbelievers can rest assured that rational reasoning will prevail because history has shown us time and time again that hatred, bigotry, oppression, fake news can't last forever.

In the meantime while we're struggling to find the right balance, don't forget to love one another.

[Tom Servo]

Really should have included this in my last post.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87LGmm1M5Is

[MR2 Fan]

We'll all 'forget' about it within a week. The GOP isn't going to be giving this the same treatment as BENGHAZI for obvious reasons.

I dunno, this is starting to feel, IMO, like the biggest threat to our country we've faced since the cuban missile crisis IMO...an entire executive branch that seems to be co-conspiring with Russia.

[drew]

As well as completely ignoring the principles of the three branch system, that the Judicial has no say.

Fucking hell.

[Tom Servo]

Trump nominates relative unknown candidate Bill Blutin to replace Michael Flynn on National Security.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4orL8KVUAAxQtm.jpg

https://twitter.com/jbuhrmester/status/831524570548940800

[Sad, little man]

It is surprising how the Democrats and Republicans in the Senate are amazingly starting to agree that Trump's ties to Russia and their influence over the election need to be looked into.

But, it looks like Paul Ryan is still a festering pile of shit. Seriously, whatever hand jobs he and Trump exchanged behind closed doors must have been amazing.

[MR2 Fan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4rWECPUYAAiC0R.jpg