Politics

[Crazed_Insanity]

Taimar, I didn't write those definitions, just grabbed them after googling... Even if you disagree with those definitions, based on what you've posted, I think it's pretty safe to assume that you're also bi-political? Forget about the Republican party of today, other than 'traditional american values', you really have nothing against conservative ideology itself, right?

Even with the 'traditional american values', I think it's important to distinguish between cultural values and moral values. We ought to just leave the moral values out of it... and if we only consider the cultural values, I'm pretty sure most people won't have anything against realizing the american dream thru self reliance and hard work while having healthy competition with equal opportunity, and, last but not least, having the necessary freedoms to pursue our very own happiness.

You also have nothing against 'traditional american values' in a cultural sense, right?

Anyway, I was just wondering if there are really folks who are so hardcore about being a liberal that he just cannot accept any part of conservative ideology... Or do you have any specific issues against conservative ideology? Again, let's try to leave the 'Republicans' out of this discussion for a moment if we can... Also, issues such as abortion and gay marriage are more like moral issues, hence the conservatives would 'flip sides' and actually expect the government to intervene and deny people the 'freedom'... So besides abortion and gay rights and maybe gun rights, do you have anything else against conservative ideology in theory? Am I right to assume that you are also 'bi-political' at least in theory?

Lastly, do you think the American Democrats, especially the ones in charge of our nation, are living up to their liberal values?

[Tom Servo]

Muslim ban 2.0 got blocked nationwide by a federal judge in Hawaii. Once again, things that Trump and his super-pals said in public were used as evidence that it is discriminatory, specifically Stephen Miller saying that the language was different, but the end goal was the same.

[drew]

Yep.

He's also apparently campaigning this week again as well.

the actual fuck.

[G'day Mate]

Yeah I saw that. Why does he need to go rallying?

I guess his ego enjoys the cheering.

[Yw-slayer]

It's lonely at the top.

[Fogelhund]

Taimar, I didn't write those definitions, just grabbed them after googling... Even if you disagree with those definitions, based on what you've posted, I think it's pretty safe to assume that you're also bi-political? Forget about the Republican party of today, other than 'traditional american values', you really have nothing against conservative ideology itself, right?

Even with the 'traditional american values', I think it's important to distinguish between cultural values and moral values. We ought to just leave the moral values out of it... and if we only consider the cultural values, I'm pretty sure most people won't have anything against realizing the american dream thru self reliance and hard work while having healthy competition with equal opportunity, and, last but not least, having the necessary freedoms to pursue our very own happiness.

You also have nothing against 'traditional american values' in a cultural sense, right?

Anyway, I was just wondering if there are really folks who are so hardcore about being a liberal that he just cannot accept any part of conservative ideology... Or do you have any specific issues against conservative ideology? Again, let's try to leave the 'Republicans' out of this discussion for a moment if we can... Also, issues such as abortion and gay marriage are more like moral issues, hence the conservatives would 'flip sides' and actually expect the government to intervene and deny people the 'freedom'... So besides abortion and gay rights and maybe gun rights, do you have anything else against conservative ideology in theory? Am I right to assume that you are also 'bi-political' at least in theory?

Lastly, do you think the American Democrats, especially the ones in charge of our nation, are living up to their liberal values?

The notion that people fit in one uniform box, or the other uniform box is misguided at best. There will be a spectrum for nearly every political/economic/social attribute, that people will fall under. Trying to define what "A" is, suggests a complete lack of understanding of the whole scenario, or people in general.

[Tom Servo]

Per the NY Times:



In addition to cuts at the E.P.A. and the State Department, Mr. Trump's team is expected to propose a wide array of cuts to public education, to transportation programs like Amtrak and to the Department of Housing and Urban Development, including the complete elimination of the $3 billion Community Development Block Grant program, which funds popular programs like Meals on Wheels, housing assistance and other community assistance efforts.


Billi, I think that's pretty much spot on what you're talking about in the "self-reliance" thing. Self reliance is all well and good, but there are people who literally are unable to leave their houses, and survive because of programs like Meals on Wheels. I think that's worth $10 a year of my tax money. Trump's team does not.

[Yw-slayer]

The notion that people fit in one uniform box, or the other uniform box is misguided at best. There will be a spectrum for nearly every political/economic/social attribute, that people will fall under. Trying to define what "A" is, suggests a complete lack of understanding of the whole scenario, or people in general.

For example, many people I know would describe themselves as "socially liberal, fiscally conservative". But even that label is open to interpretation.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The notion that people fit in one uniform box, or the other uniform box is misguided at best. There will be a spectrum for nearly every political/economic/social attribute, that people will fall under. Trying to define what "A" is, suggests a complete lack of understanding of the whole scenario, or people in general.

I'm not the one who created those 2 boxes. I think Taimar and I can both agree that we could belong to either box.

There are plenty of liberals here and also plenty of conservatives out there. Can they define themselves? Or perhaps they are completely lacking in understanding themselves?

Anyway, do you have an idea of where you stand politically and do you properly understand your position? I think it's a given that I lack understanding, but I'm interested in knowing what you guys know...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Per the NY Times:



Billi, I think that's pretty much spot on what you're talking about in the "self-reliance" thing. Self reliance is all well and good, but there are people who literally are unable to leave their houses, and survive because of programs like Meals on Wheels. I think that's worth $10 a year of my tax money. Trump's team does not.

I think there's a difference between self reliance and social safety net. We definitely don't want to see people fall off and die, but at the same time we shouldn't allow people to just stay on the safety net permanently.

I think republicans tend to take away the net too quickly and democrats tend to allow folks to stay on the net for too long. Where is the right balance? I don't know...

[Tom Servo]

I honestly don't get where you're going with this. You started with your two dichotomies. Then everyone who bothered to respond basically said that people are all over the spectrum. Now you're pointing out that it's all a spectrum.

For example, you think there's a difference between self reliance and a social safety net. I think we all do. The question is whether you're more inclined to help those that might take advantage of the system, or if you're the kind of person who thinks that the social safety net is full of "welfare queens" who use their food stamps for iPhones and cigarettes.

FWIW, not everyone doesn't want to see people fall off and die. The White House estimates show 26 million losing health insurance by 2020 with Trumpcare. That's 8% of the population. Some of those people will, without a doubt, "fall off and die". One of every 13 people in this country will lose their health insurance, and some of those people will die.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I stated that I'm bi-dichotomy from the beginning, just want to hear from a hardcore liberal to point out the errors of conservative ideology in theory. I don't think we have any pure/absolute liberals here, so perhaps there's still hope that one day liberals can still embrace conservatives in America one day...

I think welfare can be a fairly simple issue to fix. If govt takes away the safety net, we could still rely on family members or churches or charitable organizations. We can donate to it if we want to and still take a tax deduction... Basically be able to direct where our money can go without approval of stupid politicians! Point is we don't need govt to be able to help others. Donald Trump cannot force me to not help others in need.

Of course healthcare would be a totally different beast. Not sure how this problem can be solved at all... Maybe we people can be allowed to choose between obamacare or trumpdoesn't care...

[21Kid]

Bernie Sanders and Planned Parenthood are the most popular things in America, Fox News finds (http://theweek.com/speedreads/686252/bernie-sanders-planned-parenthood-are-most-popular-things-america-fox-news-finds)

[balki]

What's with the love for Obamacare?
When I looked into it (went +25 years with no insurance), it was shit if you were above the poverty line*.
+3k a year for shit insurance or +7k for decent insurance; that's the same kind of shit I could have gotten without a the government red tape that was created.

*I don't see how expanding Medicare would wouldn't have been cheaper and more effective for those that can't afford the $3-7k/year

The "self-reliance" argument has some merit to it, but cutting 100% of multiple programs for a 1% increase in defense spending is madness.

[Phil_SS]

Nobody loves Obamacare. Everybody knows it has problems but it could be fixed if the Republicans/Democrats would work together to make it work. Just like they did with CHIP, or Social Security, or Medicare etc.

IMO, Obama and the people knew it was not great but finally had the chance to pass a bill for health care. So they did, and now that it is there it is very hard for the Republicans to just completely repeal it. Which is why they came up with their own bill. It is now part of the lexicon of American politics.

[Tom Servo]

There's one big part of Obamacare that was, as far as I can tell, hugely important - that insurance companies couldn't deny you coverage based on pre-existing conditions. The list of conditions include things like diabetes, cancer, etc etc. Basically, you could find yourself in a situation where no insurance company would even be willing to sell you insurance because you have some chronic condition. As far as I can tell, Trumpcare doesn't have that same rule.

It's not really a huge deal when you get insurance through your employer, and medicare has the same rule I believe. But if you're under retirement age and need to buy your own insurance (unemployed, contracting, a student), you could basically have no options.

[drew]

The biggest part of the opposing GOP with the Ryan bill, is that it has ANYTHING related to the ACA in it. Since they have hard on to remove anything from his presidency from history. That's my biggest issue with it. They're not opposed because people will get fucked (everyone not a billionaire at least), it's that they're so fucking petty, that any word of the black guy's plan needs to be eradicated.

Again, fuck them. I hope there's a major sweep in 2018. Too bad they'll have done all the damage by then.

[Tom Servo]

Holy shit, they're doubling down on the Meals on Wheels thing. That's a hugely popular program, and from what I gather, a year's funding is the same as a week of putting Melania up in Trump Tower because she doesn't want to live with her dipshit husband, all because it's "not showing any results". This is like bad cartoon villain kinda shit.

[drew]

Yep. They also said that his trips to FL so far, would have saved the Great Lakes Protection program....


What are his "rallies" costing us? That REALLY fucks me off. All he wants to do is campaign and hear his people cheer for him.

But now, WE are paying for it, not rich assholes/duped donors.

I need to stop, because I get really, really pissed off.

[MR2 Fan]

Trump and his administration are failing hard in many ways, I'm still waiting for everything come crashing down....one step at a time.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Maybe federal govt should just mandate state government to come up with affordable health insurance. Red states can come up with a version that they want or don't want... And blue states can come up with a version that they want. With 50 different versions/attempts, somebody must be able to come up with a viable solution?

If ACA is indeed repealed, hope the states can pick up the ball..., it really doesn't make sense to force the private employers to offer healthcare. If federal govt is too incapable of doing it right, state government should just do it.

[MR2 Fan]

more stuff is hitting the fan again today with the FBI confirming Russian interference

[21Kid]

It's pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point. But, will anything be done about it? That's the real question.

[MR2 Fan]

anyway, I've finally decided what to call brainwashed Trump supporters..... MAGAts

[novicius]

more stuff is hitting the fan again today with the FBI confirming Russian interference
Hacking? Or just social engineering, email releases and dark money for ads?

[MR2 Fan]

Hacking? Or just social engineering, email releases and dark money for ads?

well, the hacking of the emails so they would be released.

[speedpimp]

Vladimir Putin is a master musician. He is an expert at playing his Trump pet.

[FaultyMario]

Oh my god, it's like the Beverly Hillbillies. Except they have, you know, the codes.


Ivanka Trump, who moved to Washington saying she would play no formal role in her father’s administration, is now officially setting up shop in the White House.
The first daughter will not, however, become a government employee, raising ethics questions.

[novicius]

well, the hacking of the emails so they would be released.
But that's a DNC issue... or a Clinton Foundation issue. I mean is there proof that the Russians hacked the election? I'm assuming the word is "nope" in which case this isn't a smoking gun.

They're trying to implicate Trump Co. on feel-bad actions: he should "feel bad" for dealing with the Russians, Americans should "feel bad" for electing this fucking pig into office, etc.

You can talk emoluments clause until you're blue in the face but if Congress doesn't want to take action on it, they won't. Trump knows he can say/tweet ANYTHING he likes and get away with it because a vast number of Americans love that he's burning the social contract. They do not want the social contract of the past 50 years, they want cultural homogeneity and old grudges settled.

[MR2 Fan]

I'm pretty sure there was proof found of the Russians hacking voting machines back in August, but they haven't proved yet if they were hacked in November as well

[Sad, little man]

Maybe federal govt should just mandate state government to come up with affordable health insurance. Red states can come up with a version that they want or don't want... And blue states can come up with a version that they want. With 50 different versions/attempts, somebody must be able to come up with a viable solution?
That already happened... Massachusetts came up with a good plan. We adopted a similar one nationally, Republicans lost their shit because it became named after Obama, now they're trying to get rid of it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

With the nation so divided, probably isn't a good idea to have single national version. In retrospect, Obama should've given credit to Romney and called it Romneycare... then perhaps ACA can survive longer! ;)

Anyway, if we can just do this at the state level, maybe things can work out. Blue states can cover everyone... and all the red states can just allow the dumb, poor and sick to just slowly die off if they really refuse to come to their senses.

[21Kid]

They named it after him...

Most people like the ACA.

[MR2 Fan]

So I follow a lot of political news and views on Twitter.

It was stated in a few articles that many of the Trump supporters on there may be just bots or paid supporters.

I typically just block them when I see them, and kind of enjoying blocking them these days.

What is interesting to me is that about 80% of them have the same type of things...pic of the american flag, or an eagle...their profile says they're conservative or military, or right wing, or christian, or NRA member. I also see a lot of women and latinos and blacks.

It all adds up to fake or paid supporters to me at this point.

Just a thought.

[Crazed_Insanity]

They named it after him...

Most people like the ACA.

Well, I don't know anyone, even liberals, who refers to it as ACA. Maybe they'll say 'affordable care act', but most simply call it Obamacare. Conservatives say it with a derogatory tone, but liberals proudly refer to it as Obamacare now.

Anyway, it'd be interesting to see how things turn out..., but like I said, if Trumpcare ended up offering no care for poor americans, liberal state governments should pick up the ball and put their money where their mouths are and at least take care of people in their own states..., rather than just blame the conservatives. CA particularly should take the lead..., but considering we don't even have sufficient money to educate our future generations, chances are we probably won't have enough money to take care of our sick. It's mind boggling that Silicon Valley profits are insufficient to fund CA state's coffer... It'll be much easier to just blame the Republicans than to actually try to do something meaningful I guess.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So I follow a lot of political news and views on Twitter.

It was stated in a few articles that many of the Trump supporters on there may be just bots or paid supporters.

I typically just block them when I see them, and kind of enjoying blocking them these days.

What is interesting to me is that about 80% of them have the same type of things...pic of the american flag, or an eagle...their profile says they're conservative or military, or right wing, or christian, or NRA member. I also see a lot of women and latinos and blacks.

It all adds up to fake or paid supporters to me at this point.

Just a thought.

This simply contributes to more political polarization. As each side begin to block opposing views' news or blogs or posts or tweets, each side begin to live in their own bubble without any consideration for the other side.

I think for peace of mind or sanity, it is necessary to block it off most of the time, but occasionally one still needs to come out of the shell and try to understand what the other side is really about..., especially if you're thinking of defeating the other side. You can't beat them if you don't understand them.

[Tom Servo]

Yes, there is much to learn from a Russian-made bot calling you a cuck.

[FaultyMario]

Russkies area getting kinky nau?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, the russians are talking to and learning more about the conservative Republicans than the liberal democrats. Democrats really need to learn how to work with the Republicans better from the Russkies! (I want to insert a smilie here but not sure whether to laugh or cry about this...)

Anyway, for sure we know roofer isn't russian and ain't a bot and not paid for by Trump. It's probably easy to just assume that he is.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ozD4Wg0S--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/ms5mk4of539sjuplhkpr.jpg

[tigeraid]

http://time.com/4710456/donald-trump-time-interview-truth-falsehood/


And I inherited a mess on trade. I mean we have many, you can go up and down the ladder. But that’s the story. Hey look, in the mean time, I guess, I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not. You know. Say hello to everybody OK?


My god, what a child.

[FaultyMario]

Worse, "The country believes me. Hey. I went to Kentucky two nights ago, we had 25,000 people in a massive basketball arena."

He is right.

[Freude am Fahren]

So the whole social media bot type thing was basically the plot of the most recent episode of Homeland.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Been digging around what CA had been doing in the past regarding healthcare..., was really surprised about our earlier failed efforts. Even Californians didn't take the mandated universal healthcare warmly initially!

California efforts to expand health care

1992: Proposition 166 fails, with 69.2 percent of California voters opposed. It would have created an employer mandate to provide employees health insurance, and required employees to participate unless they had some other form of health insurance. (We couldn't even achieve this back in 1992 in CA?!?!? WTF?!?!?!?!? People must really hate doctors back then?)

1994: Proposition 186 fails, with 73.4 percent opposed. It would have created a single-payer health care system with state government administering coverage and replacing most private health insurance programs.

2004: Proposition 72, a statewide referendum asking California voters if employers should be required to provide health care coverage for their employees, fails with 50.8 percent of voters opposed.

2005: Senate Bill 840, by state Sen. Sheila Kuehl, would have created a single-payer health care system for California. It passed the Legislature in 2006 but was vetoed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

2007: Schwarzenegger designates 2007 as “year of health reform,” but a proposal requiring everyone to have health insurance stalls in committee.

2010-14: Legislature and Gov. Jerry Brown pass slew of state bills implementing the Affordable Care Act. The state expanded Medi-Cal for low-income residents and created Covered California, the health insurance exchange.

2015: Sen. Ricardo Lara’s Senate Bill 75, signed by Brown, expanded Medi-Cal to cover undocumented people under age 19.

2017: Lara withdrew a request to the federal government for permission to allow undocumented adults to obtain health insurance through Covered California. Lara said he didn’t “trust the Trump administration to do what’s best for California and to implement the waiver in a way that protects people’s privacy and health.”

2017: Lara and Atkins, D-San Diego, propose skeleton “health-care-for-all” bill, Senate Bill 562, to adopt single-payer, universal health care in California.

2017: Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom, a candidate for governor, plans to propose a statewide single-payer, universal health care system as House Republicans advance Obamacare repeal.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article138777138.html

Anyway, my apologies to my state lawmakers for my earlier comments... Looks like we are gearing up to have a single payer healthcare in the event that Trump repeals Obamacare! Hopefully they can adopt the Healthy San Francisco program to become Healthy California! (Maybe eventually healthy America someday...)

Hopefully CA voters will now be more likely to embrace this(Just to fuck with Trump). If even California is having difficulties realizing universal healthcare after multiple attempts, no wonder the whole nation cannot agree on how to best implement it... Obamacare is just our 1st attempt!

Considering how difficult this has been in such a liberal state, existence of Obamacare is really kind of a miracle! However lame it might be to some, kudos to our former president to be able to even achieve this...

[Tom Servo]

Bwahahahah. So, I don't care all that much whether it's true or not, but I do like the comeuppance.

Monday, the NSA, FBI, et al. all confirmed that they have no evidence of Trump being wiretapped.

Wednesday, Devin Nunes, on the Intelligence Committee, says that an unnamed source confirmed that Trump had been "incidentally wiretapped", and ran immediately to the president with this info.

Now, there are a lot of exciting things there. A) If it's an "incidental wiretap", that means that someone else that was allegedly up to some nefarious business was being wiretapped, and it caught Trump on it calling said nefarious person. B) If this is true, and Nunes said this in a press conference, he confirmed information about a FISA warrant which, for better or worse, is considered classified information.

My favorite part, though, is that after all the times that the Trump administration has used an "unnamed source" as a reason to doubt a report, they're now trying to use it and there's speculation that said source is someone within the administration trying to give Trump some credibility.

Live by the sword...

[21Kid]

... :| And, what will come of it?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Something amazingly great!

[21Kid]

Dammit. I was Billi-rolled again. :smh:

[Tom Servo]

The emotional arc of Trump supporters summed up in one gif. (https://twitter.com/eclecticbrotha/status/844083918060032004)

[Crazed_Insanity]

That gif is really really great! :D

[Crazed_Insanity]

See, something amazingly great happened! Trump the master negotiator and Ryan's awesome leadership skillz weren't enough to repeal Obamacare! Even conservatives can't agree on what they want or don't want! This is GREAT! :D

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/24/house-obamacare-repeal-vote/99573690/

[Cam]

It's YUGE, even! :lol:

[21Kid]

:lol: Yup.

[Tom Servo]

It'll be an interesting showdown. Trump essentially gave them the ultimatum: it's now or nothing. He already looks weaker, not being able to cajole them into passing this bill. He'll look even weaker if he buckles and lets them try again at repealing/changing the ACA. I see Trump turning on Ryan now, after all these months of Ryan being his lapdog.

[Tom Servo]

I know the fight is far from over, but goddamn does it feel good to know that it's not just a blank check.

[FaultyMario]

I know the fight is far from over, but...
http://www.hellomagazine.com/imagenes/travel/2017020736450/richard-branson-barack-obama-holiday/0-196-827/obama-1-a.jpg


Fix't

[Tom Servo]

CNN political analyst is saying that sources have told her Flynn is flipping and willing to testify about Russian influence.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT3Px11xN-0&ab_channel=dkostv

[neanderthal]

While all of this is happening there are multiple very important other things that we must NOT overlook.

NO vote on Gorsuch before a vote on Merrick Garland has taken place.
Trump Russia.The entire castle must come down. All involved, all who lied, even by proxy. Jail.
Emolluments clause
Trump China
Increased drone bombing must end
Syria. Still a thing. Still not really our problem but a clusterfuck of a quagmire.
Black girls missing in Baltimore.
etc

And Tom Price' seat in Georgias 6th district is up for grabs. Fellow named Ossof looks like he has a good shot of winning it.

[drew]

My feelings on the Russia thing....

Sure it may all be coincidence, but goddamn.

If (and I do mean if) something damning is found/proven, I think the entire administration, ALL of them, anyone appointed/confirmed, and any "laws" signed in are null and void.


We're in an unprecedented time, so, why not kick them all out/put them in jail?

My honest belief is that Putin's plans didn't pan out how he intended (because nothing has changed yet, in terms of US/Russian policies/etc), and he may just wikileak the whole thing to wash his hands of anything/all of it. Because, he's an asshole.

[Yw-slayer]

Nah. He's just ex-KGB.

[MR2 Fan]

Infowars apologizes for spreading 'Pizzagate' theory. What does that mean for fake news?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/infowars-apologizes-spreading-pizzagate-theory-does-mean-fake-154458628.html

[Jason]

Means they are part of the 'lame stream conspiracy against truth' and some other site will pick up the slack.

[Jason]

My feelings on the Russia thing....

Sure it may all be coincidence, but goddamn.

If (and I do mean if) something damning is found/proven, I think the entire administration, ALL of them, anyone appointed/confirmed, and any "laws" signed in are null and void.


We're in an unprecedented time, so, why not kick them all out/put them in jail?

My honest belief is that Putin's plans didn't pan out how he intended (because nothing has changed yet, in terms of US/Russian policies/etc), and he may just wikileak the whole thing to wash his hands of anything/all of it. Because, he's an asshole.

This is overly optimistic.

I have a feeling a couple lower level people will be slapped on the wrist, but the high level people (Trump and crew) will be fine. Also, as much as Republicans aren't unified on healthcare, I simply cannot see them going after their own party's selection for POTUS. Keep your expectations low.

[21Kid]

My feelings on the Russia thing....

Sure it may all be coincidence, but goddamn.

I have a feeling a couple lower level people will be slapped on the wrist, but the high level people (Trump and crew) will be fine. Also, as much as Republicans aren't unified on healthcare, I simply cannot see them going after their own party's selection for POTUS. Keep your expectations low.

That's basically what happened in Wisconsin's John Doe case against Walker (http://archive.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/wisconsin-john-doe-investigations-271412751.html).

[drew]

I boy can dream, can't he? :finger:


All I do know, is someone somewhere, is writing the documentary about this shit, to be released 1 month after he's out of office (whether that's in a month, a year, or fuck help us 4 years).

[Jason]

I boy can dream, can't he? :finger:

No. :mad:

[drew]

Fuck this place then.

and fuck you :finger:

[speedpimp]

Infowars apologizes for spreading 'Pizzagate' theory. What does that mean for fake news?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/infowars-apologizes-spreading-pizzagate-theory-does-mean-fake-154458628.html


FALSE FLAG OPERATION!

[FaultyMario]

No. :mad:

Baldie's right. this is no time for dreamers.

[Yw-slayer]

Baldie's right. this is no time for dreamers.

YOU ARE A HATER OF JOHN LENNON.

[Tom Servo]

Hey, in fairness, he wasn't the only one.

[Yw-slayer]

Do you have hopes?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, we do hope that someday you'll join us.

:sing:and the world will be great again:sing:

[Fiat500]

Do you have hopes?

It has forsaken these lands.

[Tom Servo]

Michael Flynn has, according to the Wall Street Journal, offered to be interviewed re: Russia in exchange for immunity.

Draw your own conclusions, everyone.

[drew]

Not drawing shit, yet. Except maybe a betting square (a la super bowl/etc) on how Flynn meets his end in the next week.

Falls out of the Washington Monument. Satellite de-orbits, and lands on his car en route to the hearing. Snow leopard mauls him.

I ma

[Tom Servo]

I ma

They finally got Drew...

[Cam]

:lol:

[Freude am Fahren]

:lol:


:(:sadbanana:

[G'day Mate]

:lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wonder what he was trying to say before they snatched fud away...

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17498518_10209204026404583_4503404473880143643_n.j pg?oh=80c3044198c8350e14e9bdc7853dda89&oe=594F2D5E

http://i.imgur.com/xvsng0l.gif

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17629998_10154733918303347_7068481474953800909_n.j pg?oh=8d8b9a9b4b155447a25c1c510bd4759f&oe=5961D19E

[MR2 Fan]

if Flynn actually survives long enough to testify then...

http://i.imgur.com/NnoGhN1.gif?noredirect

[The359]

What's with Trump showing off his signed bills to cameras. I don't recall any previous President doing this, or am I just not paying attention?

[balki]

I don't think previous bills had camera-friendly 144pt Comic Sans Serif font

[Kchrpm]

Apparently the ceremonies are not uncommon, but I don't know if the act of holding them up is.

*googles "president holding up signed bill"*

*gets pictures of Bill Clinton holding up things*

D'oh.

One of them is actually a bill, though.

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/3678ed6e2480439b87116b1629c18aaa/us-president-bill-clinton-holds-up-his-administrations-version-of-gttg7d.jpg

And here's Lyndon Johnson

http://www.msnbc.com/sites/msnbc/files/styles/ratio--3-2--830x553/public/3243570.jpg?itok=lQEgrp2o

[FaultyMario]

Mike Flynn should ask for immunity in that this is a witch hunt (excuse for big election loss), by media & Dems, of historic proportion!

:twitch:

[FaultyMario]

“You’ve got to keep in mind that [Devin Nunes] works for the president. He answers to the president,”


"Doesn’t he work for the constituents of his district?”


“Well, you do both,”

:popcorn:

[Tom Servo]

That and sorta the whole point of the three branches of government is that they *don't* work for each other. They're supposed to counter-balance each other. Nice to know that at least one representative doesn't know basic civics.

[FaultyMario]

What i find most pathetic about Trump is that he is the only one fixated on the election.

Everything is electoral politics to him.

Policy communications? campaign meeting.
Executive orders? make it a campaign event.
Democrats loss? Left and center of left pundits place the blame on Hillary's lack of empathy towards white working class, and the lack of integration of dissenting voices from the undecided into her campaign platform. She herself has kept silence since November.
The Obamas have kept a remarkably respectful low profile, even on the face of attacks.

The only person discussing​ the election's result is Trump himself.

Some people in the public sphere have voiced their concern on three basic issues.
-1 conflicts of interests and accountability,
-2 transparency and balance of government​ branches' powers and,
-3 harmful shifts in public policy (healthcare and environmental protection along with their economic impacts being the most visible) for the sake of difference.

None of the issues the more serious commentators are pointing to have anything to do with the election.
No one in the mainstream is accusing Trump of fraud or giving him a direct cue towards talking about the election's result.

He is a single-issue president and sadly for you yanks, that issue is his popularity.

I get it, this person comes from a form of capitalism that places a big emphasis on character recognition and brand awareness. He is a TV salesman. But he didn't win the nomination from a TV network or Twitter. There's a publicly-funded institution behind him. The Republican Party is able to generate income from the fact that they engage in government issues, and is therefore subject to most of the accountability rules government agencies have to comply to, maybe not from a statutory perspective but definitely from a moral standpoint. The burden of responsibility is not on this clinically disabled man-child, it's on his institutional enablers, and ultimately on you, the citizens providing them with the means to destroy your structures of civilian life.

[FaultyMario]

I'll edit the post, but, seriously homes, you're breaking my heart.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know your particular blend of liberal democracy is deeply rooted in racism and bullying.

But no other nation has scientifically developed State institutions as much as you guys have.

Come on, get your collective head out of your ass! You're disappointing.

[tigeraid]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michael-flynn-immunity-crime_us_58ddad41e4b0e6ac7093c7fe


“The very last thing that John Podesta just said is ‘No individual too big to jail.’ That should include people like Hillary Clinton,” he said. “I mean, five people around her have been given immunity, to include her former chief of staff.”

Then, he said:

“When you are given immunity, that means that you probably have committed a crime.”

Flynn ― who also led “Lock her up” chants at the Republican National Convention ― was referring to the investigation into Democratic candidate Clinton’s use of a private email server while she was U.S. secretary of state.

:popcorn:

[MR2 Fan]

Trump's Mean Tweet today:


Mike Flynn should ask for immunity in that this is a witch hunt (excuse for big election loss), by media & Dems, of historic proportion!

I love how he is either completely bereft of logic or trying desperately to dig himself out of the massive hole he's built for himself. Either way, his attempts at deflection get more silly and desperate daily! Sad!

[Fogelhund]

What i find most pathetic about Trump is that he is the only one fixated on the election.


It would appear, as though once Flynn opens his mouth, a large number of people will be fixated on the election.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://i.giphy.com/mpfMDb6MB6EWQ.gif

[speedpimp]

So fucking good.

[drew]

This is what happens when you have no NFL or F1 on a Sunday in early April
2302

Oh, the irony:

Addressing me as "asshole" (I've never met this person, nor know them, today was the first time I'd ever seen their name), with a follow up of "can't have a legitimate conversation with someone that doesn't respect..." :lol:

Also love the fact that he is a self-proclaimed "independent", but uses Trumpite terms and phrases, as well as "Obama is to blame for everything".




I need a fucking beer.

[speedpimp]

Kind of surprised he didn't refer to Obama as "Obummer".

[sandydandy]

Bannon removed from National Security Council. (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/05/steve-bannon-reportedly-removed-from-national-security-council-in-reorganization.html)

Breath of fresh air anyone? Take em while you can get em. They'll be few and far between with this administration.

[MR2 Fan]

article is not there, but other places are confirming

[sandydandy]

Fixed the link. The HTML was missing the L.

[speedpimp]

Interviews for Bannon's replacement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryvljjccqL8

[tigeraid]

:lol:

[drew]

:up:

In other news, Bannon lost his NSC seat.

[G'day Mate]

Sounds like he kinda stepped down but still retains a lot of power and clearence

[speedpimp]

One small step...

[Tom Servo]

Kinda like how Flynn resigned instead of being kicked out?

[drew]

Bannon was put on the NSC to monitor Flynn....

wha??

Wonder what this week's shitbomb calamity will be for the WH admin...

[Tom Servo]

Nunes is "temporarily stepping aside" from his role as lead of the house intelligence committee now that it appears he's under investigation by the ethics committee after running straight to Trump with "evidence" of wiretapping.

[drew]

Like I said, shitbomb.

Each week is l a cliffhanger. Some screen writer somewhere is kicking their own ass, because nobody could make this shit up.

[novicius]

I fully expect House of Cards season 5 to have President Underwood to win re-election with his wife Claire as Vice-President, direct the nation to through invasive war through multiple countries against ICO and when Tom Hammerschmidt's assembled team of reporters & sources (including besmirched ex-President Walker) finally shines a spotlight on Underwood? He takes us to total open war with President Petrov and Russia.

Oh wait, this isn't the "What are you watching?" thread? :lol:

[tigeraid]

This is an interesting read, for those who have a moment.

These are the sort of feelings I have when I think of someone I know of as conservative when I was a KID, vs. what a modern-day "conservative" is. Is it as simple as "Old Man Yells at Cloud"?


http://fusion.net/the-long-lucrative-right-wing-grift-is-blowing-up-in-t-1793944216


For years, the conservative movement peddled one set of talking points to the rabble, while its elites consumed a more grounded and reality-based media. The rubes listened to talk radio, read right-wing blogs, watched Fox News. They were fed apocalyptic paranoia about threats to their liberty, racial hysteria about the generalized menace posed by various groups of brown people, and hysterical lies about the criminal misdeeds of various Democratic politicians. The people in charge, meanwhile, read The Wall Street Journal and The Weekly Standard, and they tended to have a better grasp of political reality, as when those sources deceived their readers, it was mostly unintentionally, with comforting fantasies about the efficacy of conservative policies. From the Reagan era through the Bush administration, the system seemed to be performing as designed.

But if this was a reasonably useful arrangement for Republicans, who won a couple close elections with the help of their army of riled-up kooks, it was a fantastic deal for the real engine of the right-wing propaganda machine: companies selling newly patented drugs designed to treat the various conditions of old age, authors of dubious investing newsletters, sellers of survival seeds, hawkers of poorly written conservative books, and a whole array of similar con artists and ethically compromised corporations and financial institutions. The original strategy behind demonizing the “mainstream media” may have purely political, to steer voters away from outlets that tended to present information damaging to the conservative cause, but the creation of the conservative media was also a revenue opportunity for shameless grifters from the very start.


... the complete and inarguable disaster of the Bush administration—a failure of the conservative movement itself, one undeniable even to many consumers of the parallel conservative media—and his abrupt replacement by a black man, caused a national nervous breakdown among the people who’d been told, for many years, that conservatism could not fail, and that all Real Americans agreed with them.

Rather rapidly, two things happened: First, Republicans realized they’d radicalized their base to a point where nothing they did in power could satisfy their most fervent constituents. Then—in a much more consequential development—a large portion of the Republican Congressional caucus became people who themselves consume garbage conservative media, and nothing else.

[MR2 Fan]

:up:

[MR2 Fan]

This youtube channel "Off the Great Wall" doesn't usually do serious discussions, but they did have an interesting perspective on the labels that we put on everyone here in the U.S. vs other places like Australia, worth a watch IMO


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i6u8EDH6Ls

[tigeraid]

And a comment from further down.


What’s even worse is who the GOP “elites” are now, especially in the House. Since 2010, the ranks of Republican lawmakers in both DC and the state houses have seen turnover and huge numerical gains. So many of those newcomers are, to be perfectly honest, fucking morons, the type that had grown up as the prime targets of all of this manufactured bullshit. Say what you like about, say, John Boehner, but the fucker was a player. He knew how all of this shit came to be and had no illusions about nonsense like Agenda 21 or Jade Helm or the New Black Panthers or whatever other nonsense was being force-fed to the fucking rubes. These new lawmakers were weaned on that shit. They were and are true believers. And they’re running the goddamn show now.

Add to this the real explosion in even more outlets for this crap (and the scams that come with them. Hell, Fox is for fucking cucks now. The rubes prefer Breitbart and Info Wars and a host of other purveyors of noxious bullshit now. So does the President of the United States.

These people are real. They are your neighbors and your family and your state senator and congresscritter and the chief executive of the most powerful nation on earth.

We are well and truly fucked.

[tigeraid]

My parents have always leaned right. Of course, "right" in Canada is entiiiiiiiiiiiirely different than the right in the USA. They're quite socially liberal, but always harp on the usual small-c talking points like taxes and responsible spending and immigration, bla bla.

My dad in particular DESPISED Pierre Trudeau and lot of what he stood for, particularly on immigration. And he loved Mike Harris (Ontario MP). Get him drunk enough, and he would occasionally drop an "n" word, would occasionally talk bad about immigrants, was always a little homophobic. But he's always been harmless.

So I was kinda dreading it when the Christmas holiday talk inevitably drifted to Trump. I was pleasantly shocked when he immediately said "that guy's a fucking tool, and so is anyone who votes for him. I'd vote for a woman over that idiot, easily." I was even more surprised to find he voted for Justin Trudeau! Because he was sick of a "war monger running Canada."

So yeah, not all of the old guard believes the bullshit. :)

[Tom Servo]

"Steve Bannon calls Jared Kushner a 'Cuck' and 'Globalist'"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/04/06/steve-bannon-calls-jared-kushner-a-cuck-and-globalist-behind-his-back.html

[novicius]

That's fantastic. :lol: :up:

[21Kid]

My parents have always leaned right. Of course, "right" in Canada is entiiiiiiiiiiiirely different than the right in the USA. They're quite socially liberal, but always harp on the usual small-c talking points like taxes and responsible spending and immigration, bla bla.

My dad in particular DESPISED Pierre Trudeau and lot of what he stood for, particularly on immigration. And he loved Mike Harris (Ontario MP). Get him drunk enough, and he would occasionally drop an "n" word, would occasionally talk bad about immigrants, was always a little homophobic. But he's always been harmless.

So I was kinda dreading it when the Christmas holiday talk inevitably drifted to Trump. I was pleasantly shocked when he immediately said "that guy's a fucking tool, and so is anyone who votes for him. I'd vote for a woman over that idiot, easily." I was even more surprised to find he voted for Justin Trudeau! Because he was sick of a "war monger running Canada."

So yeah, not all of the old guard believes the bullshit. :)That's great to hear. I hope some of that flows south of the border. :( Most (R)s I know follow in line with whatever is being pushed their way. And somehow come to defend their actions, even though before the election they were all talking trash about Trump.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This youtube channel "Off the Great Wall" doesn't usually do serious discussions, but they did have an interesting perspective on the labels that we put on everyone here in the U.S. vs other places like Australia, worth a watch IMO


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i6u8EDH6Ls

Interesting discussions...

I suppose it's not just about asian americans, whatever group you might be in, it does seem like every "subgroup american" tend to end up being way too sensitive about themselves which resulted in alots of venting complaining which resulted with all of us being trapped in a very negative energy/mood as a whole.

Anyway, I just wish people can channel these energies into something more positive. But then again, maybe this is what America's all about. We do encourage freedom of speech. The listeners will just have to learn to filter out the negative stuffs rather than take them all in...

[Tom Servo]

Well, good news everyone. After Trump has declared the past 11 weeks the greatest ever 13 weeks in any presidency ever, he's apparently planning on a regime change in Syria.

[G'day Mate]

Another thing about Trump - he's always very vague, open-ended and non-committal. He never says "definitely", it's always "maybe". Helps him take credit for things that go right and never be wrong about things that don't.

[G'day Mate]

Regarding the American-this, American-that labels ... kinda drives a wedge between Americans on the whole doesn't it?

[FaultyMario]

Wonder what this week's shitbomb calamity will be for the WH admin...

Week's not even at the fifth day.

[Tom Servo]

Good news, everyone. We launched a bunch of Tomahawk missiles into Syria. I'm sure that this will not escalate at all.

[FaultyMario]

Good news is, oil will not be cheap, dollar will be in the toilet tomorrow.

For someone who hates Mexico, he seems pretty incompetent at damaging our economy.

[The359]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/us45q8zvpli0iqkij3cu.png

:blahblah:

[Crazed_Insanity]

He learned quick about how to wag the tail! :lol:

[G'day Mate]

:|

[tigeraid]

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/983875_10212207864262986_1905941659910082669_n.jpg ?oh=e4d139a953df37669eaa7e01b8af0f3c&oe=598DF106

[21Kid]

I think it's painfully clear by now that he DGAF what anyone (including himself) says.

[drew]

I was ok with the tweet distractions/deflections, where he'd say some crazy shit to deter from the crazy shit he spouted the week before.

But I think we're now in a totally different, totally horrifying stage of deflection now.

Pretty sure "action" against NK will happen next week, because he has to out-distract this week's distraction.

[MR2 Fan]

:smh:

[Fogelhund]

http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/syria-gas-attack-and-donald-trumps-military-response-dont-add-up-unless-putin-orchestrated-it/2210/

[novicius]

Well of course -- it's so obvious that that article amounts to nothing more than a fluff-piece. ;)

[tigeraid]

In and of itself, bombing a military target to ground planes that are gassing civilians is reasonable. Low casualties, etc. One could argue Obama "should have done it." I certainly wouldn't disagree.

But after years of prudence, to jump into this haphazardly from your fucking cell phone on your private golf course, with ZERO understanding of what is basically a proxy conflict is terrifying. I really, really hope the military brass side of this equation knows what they're doing, because we all know this orange tit doesn't.

How must this be going through his head though? That his buddy Putin is the one backing the gas attacks? How the hell do he and his cronies square that?

[tigeraid]

Interesting that it took this, of all things...


Despite plummeting approval ratings (35 percent, currently) and a GOP rapidly distancing itself from his unhinged policy proposals, Trump’s most ardent supporters have remained steadfast—buoyed by anonymous imageboards, Twitter ecelebrities, a healthy dose of faked fervor from bot nets, and a dedicated subreddit which bans dissenting views. They spun positive narratives out of a cabinet which has habitually lied to the public, and a president who has followed through on none of his campaign promises. With this airstrike—which some already speculate will lead to a full-scale war—even these zealots who believe they memed the man into the world’s most powerful office can’t find a speck of good news buried under the rubble.

His ecelebrity cohorts have turned tail, including former men’s rights activist Mike Cernovich, #TrumpCup creator and ex-Buzzfeed employee Baked Alaska, The Rebel mouthpiece Jack Posobiec, white nationalist and living meme Richard Spencer, and Paul Joseph Watson of Infowars fame. All have tweeted voluminously in support of Trump for months. Earlier today, many also supported the theory that the gas attack in Syria was faked, and are now coming to grips with a very real missile strike.


http://gizmodo.com/with-attack-on-syria-trump-alienates-the-alt-right-1794099968?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=fridayAM

[Tom Servo]

Trump Confident U.S. Military Strike On Syria Wiped Out Russian Scandal

http://www.theonion.com/article/trump-confident-us-military-strike-syria-wiped-out-55722

[Crazed_Insanity]

It probably does mean the end of that bromantic relationship between trump and Putin...

[Tom Servo]

Not to sound too conspiracy minded, but given that the Russians and the Syrians were both warned it was coming and the Syrians appear to still be able to use the airbase, it might still be part of that relationship. I mean...he did tell Putin about the bombing run before he told Congress.

[Yw-slayer]

Remember guys, he signed 2 orders preventing these "beautiful babies" from entering the US.

[novicius]

Reds don't care, they love it all.

[Tom Servo]

Watch as Sean Spicer tries to clarify what he meant when he said that not even Hitler used chemical weapons like Assad did.

https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/851861056385417219

[21Kid]

:eek:

[drew]

Fucking hell.

[Tom Servo]

After at least four different clarifications issued to the press, he appears to have posted this to Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/PressSec/posts/1666955626934539



The media has mischaracterized my recent statements on the Assad regime. It was not my intention to imply that Hitler had never used chemical weapons, but that he never used them on fellow Germans.
At the point where Assad is attacking his own people with chemical weapons, you have to wonder if he is willing to do the same to United States citizens.
— Press Secretary Sean Spicer


(I've got a screengrab in case it's taken down, but it's up for now. I'm trying to make sure this is actually his account, it appears to be so far.)

Because German Jews weren't real Germans, I guess? Even with that, it's still arguing that essentially it's less bad to gas people the less similar they are to you. I just....goddamn.

EDIT: Looks like he deleted the post.

[drew]

It was a completely ignorant, even stupid thing to say. Made worse (and moreso) with each walk-balk of it.

What an inept mouthpiece for a completely ill-prepared/incompetent administration.

How is this less stupid than Conway's "Bowling Green Massacre" or pimping Ivanka's shit?

She's all but vanished from the public eye because of it.

Spicer is a bumbling idiot. I know that's by design though. This kind of shit plays right into the reality TV mentality of Trump, and causes more distractions, so hopefully people forget about the actual FBI investigation.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqPbVwtw7qQ

[drew]

:up: :lol:

[Freude am Fahren]

I just realized something. Trump keeps talking about "the generals" when referring to Naval operations (Yemen raid, Syrian strike).

The Navy doesn't have generals.

Maybe he's referring to his Joint Chiefs of Staff, which would include both generals and admirals, but I don't know.

[Tom Servo]

Ya know, I saw someone bring up a good point on Twitter.

Where the hell is Rudy Giuliani? His guess -- witness protection.

[21Kid]

Holocaust centers? :erm: :o

I missed that the first time. JFC.

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, they were like the YMCA but for German non-citizen citizens.

[FaultyMario]

MOAB dropped on cave complex used by the others* in Afghanistan.

I just hope the offensive it was a part of is successful and that the region is cleared from other combat units from that force, because otherwise it becomes a massive popularity boost for the survivors/affiliates.
Like the battle of Tora Bora.

[MR2 Fan]

seriously, WTF??? I'm sure that will cause NO potential terror attacks here or anything

[FaultyMario]

It's one of those things where you hope the planning stages were sound because it can be a decisive blow.

[MR2 Fan]

It's one of those things where you hope the planning stages were sound because it can be a decisive blow.

Planning stages are probably a toss up between whether Trump ordered this between his dinner or dessert

[Freude am Fahren]

People are getting pretty hot in the pants over this MOAB thing. The Syrian airbase strike used 60 Tomahawks, each of which is a half ton explosive. The MOAB is only 11 tons, so about a third of the total explosive.

It's a good device for destroying a large underground complex of tunnels I think.

[FaultyMario]

One would think that if the taliban weren't able to build one when they had control of their caliphate for five years, that an expeditionary force of foreigners would have a hard time building something complex.

[FaultyMario]

Russ, i think a couple of dozen of smaller penetrator bombs would have been as effective without all the PR work.

[Freude am Fahren]

Probably right. But I don't think the ordinance used is really that newsworthy outside of the fact that it's the first time it's been used.

The media's been obsessing over "Biggest non-nuclear bomb," ignoring that it's only a few times bigger than a normal 'big bomb' (which would be used in multiples anyway), and thousands of times smaller than a very small nuclear bomb.

[FaultyMario]

Planning stages are probably a toss up between whether Trump ordered this between his dinner or dessert

You know, I was thinking that the officer in charge of that operation was the person who asked for the use of that weapon based on their analysis, like "in view of X, we need such and such bombing in order to ß", but then with a HUGE marketer in the White House, maybe during the briefing, Trump suggested that some fireworks would be needed.

[MR2 Fan]

Hold on to your butts...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-may-launch-strike-if-north-korea-reaches-nuclear-n746366?cid=eml_nbn_20170413

[FaultyMario]

Dude, not even in Civ do you open 3 fronts at the same time.

I can see both Putin and Xi rubbing hands at the amount of debt the US would be incurring.

[FaultyMario]

Although, on the other hand, this would probably scare French voters away from LePen.

[Yw-slayer]

He wants to Make Apple Great Again by giving KJU an excuse to destroy the chaebol.

[G'day Mate]

Both sides prepared to strike preemptively ...

[21Kid]

Remember all of those Cold War drills we had to run in school? Hiding under our desks in case a bomb was dropped?


This seems much more likely to happen... :(

[Crazed_Insanity]

Launching missiles in our inventory that are near their expiration date probably won't cost us too much... Provided that we're not shooting at meaningless targets such as drones... Or end up causing a real war...

With regard to MOAB use, trump wasn't directly involved in that particular mission, he has just given permission to use that weapon.... Something Obama also authorized. One just hope our military knows what they're doing.

Knowing trump, if the mission is a success, he'll take credit, if something went wrong, he'll fire the 'general' responsible...

[FaultyMario]

And now an inert warhead test.

WTF is wrong with you guys?

[G'day Mate]

??

[FaultyMario]

U.S. Air Force test-drops inert nuclear bomb (http://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2017/04/14/US-Air-Force-test-drops-inert-nuclear-bomb/8381492188828/)

While at the same time condemning NK for attempting to conduct a test of their own.

[Tom Servo]

I dunno. I mean, one is testing everything *but* the nuclear part, the other would be testing nothing *but* the nuclear part, which does seem to be the specific part we're all concerned with.

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, It's obvious you could nuke California from a Nebraska-launched missile sent across the Atlantic.

It's just that the timing is a little dubious. I mean, Raytheon or whoever could have said that they it was an ordinary testing of guidance systems for "The Next-Gen Euphemism" and bla bla bla, instead of "ZOMG Nuclear, baby!".

[Freude am Fahren]

Dude, look at who you're talking about here. It's a bunch of insecure, dick-wagging baby-boomers.

In related news, North Korea tried to wag their dick, and it ended up looking quite lacking...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/15/world/asia/north-korea-missiles-pyongyang-kim-jong-un.html?_r=0

It would be funnier if they didn't probably execute a bunch of brain-washed engineers and machinists.

[Drachen596]

Considering the amount of stuff the US military is testing at any given time it doesn't surprise me that something related to nuclear weapons is among them.

There's also a big difference between dropping a fake bomb and testing actual weapons. The last actual weapons test the US did was in 1992. North Korea set one off last September.

[FaultyMario]

Considering the amount of stuff the US military is testing at any given time it doesn't surprise me that something related to nuclear weapons is among them.

That was kind of my point.

I suppose there are a lot of cyberwarfare weapons being developed as well, so I wouldn't put all the blame for the failed test on the brainwashed engineers. It sucks that they're going to be feeding the dogs with rocket scientists.

[Tom Servo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9nx0WeU0AAFR-F.jpg

[MR2 Fan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9vTGPRXgAAszlR.jpg

[G'day Mate]

:lol:

[neanderthal]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9vTGPRXgAAszlR.jpg


This.

[FaultyMario]

Latest exec order on skilled foreign workers.

Does he believe that crap?

Here's a tenner on it being so poorly written that it is essentially useless. Its only purpose being boosting his approval ratings among the die hard chauvinists.

[Tom Servo]

My understanding of it (have not read it, but read an article or two on it at lunch yesterday) is that it basically just directs the government to study making changes to incentives for hiring US workers, but that's really about it. Also of note, it only targets H1-B visas (which is a big thing in my industry), but leaves out H2-A and H2-B visas, which covers the kind of employees he hires at Mar-a-Lago.

[21Kid]

gee... really? :rolleyes:

[Tom Servo]

Also, I know I've mentioned this before, but I've had more than one recruiter tell me that they vastly prefer to hire citizens over H1-B workers. They've all said the same thing, that it's a way bigger hassle to deal with the visa process, there's more paperwork, more chance that something might happen where the guy you've extended the offer to turns out to be ineligible, and that it ends up costing significantly more money. Like I said, my industry has lots of people working here on H1-B visas, and I've never once felt my job threatened by it.

[Jason]

Conservatives only see IMMIGRANTS ARE GETTING JOBS WHILE THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS 53%?!?!?

Nevermind that the only reason they are getting hired is due to a lack of qualified people in the US. Maybe we should invest in education and not saddle people with 6 figured of debt.

Nah.

[tigeraid]

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/right-wing-commentators-dont-even-believe-their-own-bullshit


Right-Wing Commentators Don't Even Believe Their Own Bullshit

Last year, author Lee Siegel claimed in the Columbia Journalism Review that Colbert's brand of punditry paved the way for the fake news of today. But Colbert's winks were always obvious, and his core audience always understood his meaning. The most successful conspiracy-mongers working in America today have a different strategy entirely—they say whatever they want, and if they're called on it, they can always claim they were joking. Call it the "Colbert Defense." It's the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free card and a way for people who cross the line to never have to take responsibility for their actions.

It's doubtful that many people turn to Yiannopoulos or Jones for satire. Certainly the guy who showed up at a DC pizza restaurant with a gun to "investigate" the pizzagate conspiracy that Infowars helped spread didn't think he was watching a comedy program. (Jones later apologized for his coverage of the nonsensical theory.)

Of course, it's one thing if the average Infowars listener doesn't know if he or she is being sold entertainment or news. It's much more terrifying when the president of the United States (himself a Jones fan) is playing the same game where it's unclear how seriously or literally we're supposed to take him. During a campaign event in July, Trump suggested that Russian hackers should go looking for Hillary Clinton's deleted emails, then after an outcry claimed he was being sarcastic.

[FaultyMario]

I forgot to add to my original post on H1B Visas​.

It's the one thing you've consistently done right since operation paperclip. Why would you not want to offer jobs to the brightest and the best? It's on the same level as North Korea killing their scientists because they can't meet KJU crazy demands.

[MR2 Fan]

If Trump and Co. don't send us into WWIII, and gets impeached, things might start getting (at least slightly) better as far as finally turning things less right-wing. Bill O'Reilly is out of Fox, Roger Ailes already was, Alex Jones has been outed by his lawyer as a "performance artist"....and a Georgia deep red area nearly elected a Democrat for the first time in 3 decades.

[Sad, little man]

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2347&d=1492656619

2347

[Fogelhund]

When U.S. President Donald Trump boasted early last week that he had sent an "armada" as a warning to North Korea, the aircraft carrier strike group he spoke of was still far from the Korean peninsula, and headed in the opposite direction.

[Leon]

and headed in the opposite direction.

Or as they would spin it "an alternative direction"

[drew]

Is that a cover band for One Direction?

[Fogelhund]

Or as they would spin it "an alternative direction"

This is a warning to you N Korea... we are running away from you right now, be scared...

[Tom Servo]

Transcript of Trump's interview with AP.

https://apnews.com/c810d7de280a47e88848b0ac74690c83

[FaultyMario]

Some people I've talked to seemed genuinely happy in the way Trump's conducting the country.

Smart men. Tremendous people. People who've studied policy making for decades.

They were in communist parties in Latin America in the sixties and seventies, this is what they hoped the revolution would do.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/18119604_10155470553699305_8391371448858341568_n.j pg?oh=1184c216ab0021f8eecc09bbc4394fc7&oe=59921B36

[drew]

That's :hard:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wonder if the French will elect their own Brexit or Trump in the coming election. Once again the polls are saying it shouldn't happen...

[G'day Mate]

Canadian dairy farmers eh?

Didn't realise "hire American, buy American" applied outside of the USA.

[Rare White Ape]

Does anyone want to know what politics is like in Australia at the moment?

I know you do! Read this :)

http://junkee.com/anzac-day-hypocrisy-conservatives/103169

[Tom Servo]

Does anyone want to know what politics is like in Australia at the moment?

I know you do! Read this :)

http://junkee.com/anzac-day-hypocrisy-conservatives/103169

One of us! One of us!

No, seriously, it's kinda nice to find out recently that a bunch of you all have to deal with these kinds of idiots, too.

[tigeraid]

He's gotta be trolling at this point, right. RIGHT!?

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/30/trump-philippines-president-rodrigo-duterte-white-house-237797


President Donald Trump on Saturday invited Philippines president Rodrigo Duterte to the White House.

Duterte has been criticized following an aggressive crackdown on drug users and dealers in the South-east Asian country, which human rights groups have said included the use of death squads.

From News and Guts:


Duterte has:

*Been responsible for more than 7000 deaths.
*Been accused of crimes against humanity.
*Been accused of extra judicial killings.
*Been condemned by leaders around the world.

At a press conference in Qatar earlier this month, Duterte compared himself to Trump, praising him as "a realistic and a pragmatic thinker."

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[TheBenior]

I've seen vocally anti-Trump Filipinos try to defend Duterte. :|

[Freude am Fahren]

So apparently, Andrew Jackson was "really angry that he saw what was happening with regard to the Civil War," despite that war happening 16 years after he died.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/331349-trump-why-was-there-the-civil-war

[MR2 Fan]

Can't wait to see how the MAGAts defend that one.

Separately, I've also noticed in a lot of interviews....Trump has difficulty putting complete sentences together

[Crazed_Insanity]

They really should limit his interviews and just let him tweet.

I'd like to hear how Trump will defend himself on that one... ideally, in real time during the actual interview itself.

Now, regarding this media story..., did the interviewer question Trump and allowed him to respond? Why is this 'unaired' interview already causing a huge stir on the internet? When will the interview be actually made available to the rest of us? Article said it will be aired on Monday, but didn't specifiy any time nor channel for us to actually see it... Are we now in the habit of making judgments on somebody before we even see it? Interesting times we live in.

[MR2 Fan]

They really should limit his interviews and just let him tweet.

No, they should NOT AT ALL let him tweet. that's much of the conflict right now is that very complicated domestic and international matters CAN NOT be delegated to 140 characters, but sadly that's about as far as his attention span goes.

[tigeraid]

So apparently, Andrew Jackson was "really angry that he saw what was happening with regard to the Civil War," despite that war happening 16 years after he died.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/331349-trump-why-was-there-the-civil-war


Next Interview: Trump wonders why Churchill didn't step in and help during the first Gulf War. :rolleyes:

[Phil_SS]

So apparently, Andrew Jackson was "really angry that he saw what was happening with regard to the Civil War," despite that war happening 16 years after he died.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/331349-trump-why-was-there-the-civil-war

Maybe instead of watching Fox News and reading Breitbart he should watch the first episode of The Civil War by Ken Burns. What a fucking dolt.

[speedpimp]

Trump is pissed that Stonewall Jackson didn't win the Oscar for "Pulp Fiction". He also thinks that Gettysburg is where the hipsters live in Brooklyn.

[Leon]

Maybe he needs some history books that are colouring in books?

[MR2 Fan]

He's schizophrenic, I'm calling it.

How else do you explain talking about a major battle with North Korea, then say he will help South Korea, then tell South Korea to go pound sand and pay for their own weapons, then say he'd be honored to meet Kim Jong Un....all within a span of a few days.

[Leon]

https://media.tenor.co/images/43e2e01ba0dae36e2bdb0ee37b2fb0db/tenor.gif

[drew]

It'd be funny if it weren't for, you know, nukes.

Jesus christ

[MR2 Fan]

I have a stupid question. So I read about the THAAD system that is now operational in South Korea....so they can intercept potential nuclear warheaded weapons....so what happens when they actually hit one? Does it have a nuclear blast just really high in the atmosphere?

[Freude am Fahren]

I would think that would depend on the warhead. I would think theirs wouldn't be the safest. Maybe it would become a "dirty" bomb at least.

[thesameguy]

Isn't it basically impossible for a nuke to explode or be exploded accidentally? The triggering mechanisms are pretty complex, so without being actually detonated it'd probably just spread around some radioactive material and a bunch of shrapnel.

[Tom Servo]

http://rs97.pbsrc.com/albums/l236/wonkalumps/Looney%20Tunes%20gifs/Bugs-gremlin.gif~c200

[Freude am Fahren]

Isn't it basically impossible for a nuke to explode or be exploded accidentally? The triggering mechanisms are pretty complex, so without being actually detonated it'd probably just spread around some radioactive material and a bunch of shrapnel.

I'm pretty sure that's true, but I don't know if it always has been. I don't know if someone hit Little Boy or Fat Man with a missile, if they wouldn't have exploded. I mean, the trigger, if basically a contained explosion, right? So if you trigger that explosion without destroying the containment (something I don't think is possible with "modern" nukes), BOOM.

[thesameguy]

Atomic and nuclear weapons have a pretty precise detonator. If it doesn't happen just so, there is no explosion. The chances of random circumstance of any type replicating that precision is pretty low. I am pretty sure that applies to vintage weapons as well - they still detonated in essentially the same way as modern weapons (conventional explosion initiating a nuclear reaction). Anything is possible, and nukes shouldn't be taken lightly, but inadvertent detonation is probably not something to be worried about. Shooting a nuke down with laser beams or whatever would likely result in damaging the detonator, resulting in a loss of containment and no possible reaction. At least, that's my completely uneducated assessment of the situation. ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think people are worrying needlessly.., not that we're not in precarious situations, but since there's not much we can do about it, we need to try to stop worrying ourselves to death before a 'nukular' warhead actually detonates!

1st, even if Hillarys elected, the situation will still be tense. Although a woman and a mom, she's not the type who'd prefer peace over war. For sure she can be more diplomatic, but maybe it takes a madman to stop another mad man... Point is even if we could remove Trump, NK madman will still be there... War on terror hadn't gotten better with Obama nor with the death or Bin Laden...

2nd, take comfort that some folks, such as yours truly, helped designed and test the missile on Aegis warships to help you guys sleep better at nights. Can't guarantee that you'll be 100% safe, but it has worked well enough that the program awarded a grunt like me $25 in our company's store gift card!!! (Thanks to CNNs recent good reports!) I can only imagine how the top generals/admirals/management patted on each other's backs with much bigger bonuses...

Anyway, try to focus on the good things in life too. Life is not all about politics or these bozos in politics.

If we live thru this, I'd thank God. If we become extincted, I'm looking forward to finally meeting God. ;)

[tigeraid]

:rolleyes:

[tigeraid]

I will say I'm on the Dan Carlin side of the equation here, in that Americans "in general" don't have much to worry about. By all accounts NK has no intercontinental technology that's even remotely reliable. So the chances of any NK weapon ever reaching North America is pretty much nil.

What will happen, instead, is no less horrific, but is right up the alley of the average "FUCK YEAH 'MURRICA" idiot who smiled and nodded through two Gulf wars: NK will launch some shit (possibly a nuke) at American bases in South Korea or possibly even Japan, and will (possibly) launch attacks on some of the smaller island bases throughout the Asian Pacific. The result will be hundreds of dead Americans, but potentially thousands and thousands of dead Asians.

America will then strike swiftly, probably NOT with nukes, flattening all sortsa shit in NK, then taking it over and turning it into another goddamn mess like Iraq. The attack will be declared "mission accomplished" in maybe a few weeks just like last time, even though it won't be solved at all, and you'll have another decade of constant war profiteering and money-making for most Americans to ignore.

All hunky-dory for the military-industrial complex. The REAL key here is what happens after. If this shit actually goes down like this, that (basically) means a united Korea, run by the United States. And who's got that biiiiiiiig long border with Korea, separated pretty much by just a river? China. And guaran-fuckin-teed China doesn't like the idea of one gigantic US military base sitting along their border. That's where the real scare will be.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It makes no economic sense for China and US to get into such an armed conflict.

China for sure would want to flex its military muscles at times. I do believe it's time somebody shows the US that there can be other superpowers around the world. USA cannot be the only superpower in town... or we'll risk becoming the next evil empire. To some around the world, we probably already are the evil empire.

However, I hope China learned lessons from Nazis, Japanese and USSR that nobody can directly challenge and beat USA with actual arms nor arm races.

To me, the scary parts are ideologies. Used to be the Red Scare, now we're being scared by terrorists. Not to mention our very own home grown left/right scare being masterfully played by Trump. We the voters need to keep our emotions in check in order not to allow our bozo politicians to scare us into doing something more stupid.

Left and right voters really need to come together to actually vote for better future leaders... for now, I guess the vicious cycle of lesser of the 2 evils continues. Okay, Hillary is better than Trump, I can admit that, but I'm pretty sure she's not afraid to start WWIII. If she can support Iraq War, she can support WWIII. Heck, I'm not even sure how Bernie Sanders could better deal with the NK mad man.

Like I said, it's pointless to worry about something when there's nothing you can do about it. Try to get your mind off of it and enjoy the life you have right now.

[thesameguy]

I will say I'm on the Dan Carlin side of the equation here, in that Americans "in general" don't have much to worry about. By all accounts NK has no intercontinental technology that's even remotely reliable. So the chances of any NK weapon ever reaching North America is pretty much nil.

What will happen, instead, is no less horrific, but is right up the alley of the average "FUCK YEAH 'MURRICA" idiot who smiled and nodded through two Gulf wars: NK will launch some shit (possibly a nuke) at American bases in South Korea or possibly even Japan, and will (possibly) launch attacks on some of the smaller island bases throughout the Asian Pacific. The result will be hundreds of dead Americans, but potentially thousands and thousands of dead Asians.

America will then strike swiftly, probably NOT with nukes, flattening all sortsa shit in NK, then taking it over and turning it into another goddamn mess like Iraq. The attack will be declared "mission accomplished" in maybe a few weeks just like last time, even though it won't be solved at all, and you'll have another decade of constant war profiteering and money-making for most Americans to ignore.

All hunky-dory for the military-industrial complex. The REAL key here is what happens after. If this shit actually goes down like this, that (basically) means a united Korea, run by the United States. And who's got that biiiiiiiig long border with Korea, separated pretty much by just a river? China. And guaran-fuckin-teed China doesn't like the idea of one gigantic US military base sitting along their border. That's where the real scare will be.

I don't want to participate in this discussion, but I find the NK situation fascinating. I have a question and an opinion:

Q: Do you think in any realistically attainable circumstances (Bernie/Hillary/Cruz/Kasich/etc.) there is a diplomatic solution to NK?
O: I don't think a flattened NK->unified Korea could be anything short of decades away... there is no way you can just shove all those hostages back into real life in less than a generation. I think the more relatable scenario would be an occupied NK which also isn't good, but a) it's probably better than another generation of crazy people driving the boat, and b) I think it's unlikely to be the US occupying it. Maybe some coalition force - maybe - but I really can't see the US adding another broken country to the babysitting agenda. Not now. Not for a long time.

[Drachen596]

Here's the thing about North Korea.... NO ONE wants to deal with the fall out of them disappearing as a country. There are 25 million people in NK that would basically become immediate need refugees. SK can't handle that, China probably can but doesn't want it to happen.

I don't think there's really a diplomatic solution. NK is gonna NK. At some point they will have a viable missile to carry their nukes. We already know they have nukes since they keep testing the damn things.


If it comes down to a real shooting conflict I think what would happen is US side: SK, US, Russia, Japan, other assorted nations in the area. NK Side: NK. I believe China will either sit out entirely or go against NK. They wouldn't really want to risk financial ties to the US imo.

[novicius]

Trump, in talking to these ostracized countries, will get results in one way or another; he has already garnered the release of a political prisoner from Egypt that Obama tried to free for 3 years. That will bolster his base and give him campaign fuel.

As for the ACHA vote today, millions of people who initially were able to use their ACA plans with little or even zero premiums are now facing $5-6K premiums. They're back to having effectively no health care -- so what do they care if their premiums for pre-existing conditions go even higher? They can't afford 'em now!

From the Trump voter POV, nothing is changing in the healthcare side and Trump is talking to countries and making moves in international political waters where Obama didn't (and wouldn't). That's still mostly a win. #shrug #fucktrump

[tigeraid]

O: I don't think a flattened NK->unified Korea could be anything short of decades away... there is no way you can just shove all those hostages back into real life in less than a generation. I think the more relatable scenario would be an occupied NK which also isn't good, but a) it's probably better than another generation of crazy people driving the boat, and b) I think it's unlikely to be the US occupying it. Maybe some coalition force - maybe - but I really can't see the US adding another broken country to the babysitting agenda. Not now. Not for a long time.


No no, I didn't mean a united Korea in the literal sense. I simply meant that it would be one large country occupied by the US. Meaning way more US troops, bases, etc that are now sitting on the Chinese border.

[FaultyMario]

Soooo Trump signs an executive order to help make theocracy a reality?

[G'day Mate]

I don't even think he's very religious, he just knows how to get their dicks hard.

[The359]

Remember when everyone bitched about how little Obama attended church?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[G'day Mate]

And how much golf he played ...

[Tom Servo]

On the plus side, the ACLU basically said that it was meaningless and had no actual impact on any sort of regulation, so they're not bothering to sue over it.

[novicius]

Doesn't matter, it's another Trump win in his & his supporters' eyes.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18222619_10106552636620532_7807665126721534274_n.j pg?oh=d0651a05fdc04bc198b4d5a42535a97a&oe=59B8F0E9

[Freude am Fahren]

(yes, it's real)

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18268631_10110880581823621_5692924070345708921_n.j pg?oh=0b2794530f9d1e438e5912d307422cbe&oe=59BE5744

[The359]

I'm sure he owns his own tanning bed.

[FaultyMario]

Ok, first off I'm no terrist. mk?
second of all, I play for a different team...

But what Trump is doing is what we had dreamt we could do in terms of undermining The US' competitivity.
First the H1B thing and now his (obviously racist) approach towards Historically Black Colleges and Universities is the stuff that is going to sink America.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Frexit averted!

I have more respect for the French now!

Hope the wave of nationalistic/isolationistic sentiment stops here... Fingers cross!

[Tom Servo]

I'm having a hard time between trusting the Guardian (and reading articles that support some of the premise of this one in other trusted news sources) and being wary of it being a crazy conspiracy theory.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy

Warning: It's long as fuck. General gist - Peter Thiel and Robert Mercer are running Analytics companies that scrape data from Facebook, then use US/UK military style PsyOps to target messages to people who are prone to believe them on social media.

[Yw-slayer]

It's an interesting article. I agree that it's right on the border, but the contents don't really surprise me.

[FaultyMario]

It's science dude.

Public opinion research (http://noelle-neumann.de/scientific-work/spiral-of-silence/) has known for a long time that people perceive when they have an unpopular view on a public topic and willingly shut themselves off out of fear of being ostracized. What companies like Cambridge analytics do kinda falls on the unethical, as they look for a way to unleash those unpopular opinions (which stem out of fear, most of the time) to favor populist candidates.

[FaultyMario]

Frexit averted!

I have more respect for the French now!

Hope the wave of nationalistic/isolationistic sentiment stops here... Fingers cross!

What?

The French far right achieved 11 million votes, that's a lot of people living in fear.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Considering how many terrorists incidents occurred there, 11million is totally understandable. However, their frexit/La Trumpette candidate failed to win the election! You don't consider that stopping the 'wave'?

Don't you think fear is a totally understandable emotion for the French? Yet, they have in under control the best so far...

Or maybe it's all because Thiel and Mercer don't speak good enough French to be able to manipulate them?

Conspiracy or not, I still think all of this fundamentally was based on the economy. If people are doing well economically, no amount of data can be used by anyone to sway the election. When voters are upset about something, people tend to democratically vote for the opposition.

I'm not so sure France is doing that well economically, yet the French didn't cave into fear nor anger... so maybe this conspiracy of playing with the english speaking voters has some merit... either that or the english speaking people are just dumber. ;)

[The359]

Considering how many terrorists incidents occurred there, 11million is totally understandable. However, their frexit/La Trumpette candidate failed to win the election! You don't consider that stopping the 'wave'?

Is that like when Trump dropped out of the 2012 election? His wave was stopped?

[Crazed_Insanity]

You guys sure are pessimistic about our future.

The opposition wins, you cry about your future getting screwed.

The opposition loses, you cry about your future might still get screwed by the opposition.

The world is a scary place, huh?

Anyway, let's put it in a way you guys can understand...

Looking at France's election result, are you guys more worried about the outcome or less worried about the outcome?

[MR2 Fan]

Former AG Sally Yates is testifying today about Flynn's Russia ties.

On Twitter from a trusted account who has been investigating the Russian story for months:

"Scott Dworkin: Hill Sources: White House contacted multiple GOP Senators TODAY asking them to cancel Yates hearing"

Someone is scared...

[Drachen596]

Doubtful. If they had any real proof of what they claim they'd be screaming from mountain tops.

Isnt Podesta on the board of state run Russian company started by Putin though?