Politics

[IMOA]

Ok, first off I'm no terrist. mk?
second of all, I play for a different team...

But what Trump is doing is what we had dreamt we could do in terms of undermining The US' competitivity.
First the H1B thing and now his (obviously racist) approach towards Historically Black Colleges and Universities is the stuff that is going to sink America.

In other news, our new subsidiary in Mexico was registered yesterday and the first of the local staff we've hired have signed their contracts and we're organising to send them over to Belgium for training. This office will become the regional headquarters to support all latin american operations and anything that comes up in the US for now. The office was originally planned for Philly.

[FaultyMario]

You still hiring?

[MR2 Fan]

Trump just fired Comey...the plot thickens

Also, if Trump's official letter doesn't REEK of guilt, I don't know what does


"While I greatly appreciate you informing me, on three separate occasions, that I am not under investigation, I nevertheless concur with the judgment of the Department of Justice that you are not able to effectively lead the Bureau"

Seriously, who in their right mind would put that in their letter?

[drew]

Someone completely oblivious to a reality outside of what's in their own narcissistic mind.

All this tells me, is that the writing on the wall just turned into flashing neon.


jfc. He fires the person in the lead position of an active investigation ON him... Uh, duh? Not sure it's more obvious than that. But then, maybe I'm not a right-enough brain-fucked troll.

[MR2 Fan]

It's also scary that he CAN fire the FBI Director WHILE under investigation!

[Drachen596]

Would you rather he have his spouse meet with the AG on a runway somewhere?

[G'day Mate]

Hang on, he did whatnow? That's ... oh man, I can't wait to check out some right-wing articles on this!!

[drew]

I find it utterly amazing, that even now, his supporters still can't see that he's only about himself, and that they're just pawns he used to move into declaration of "check".

[neanderthal]

Someone needs to tell cheeto Satan that this is not an episode of The Apprentice where he goes around just firing people.

[George]

https://i.imgflip.com/1l10nq.jpg

[JoshInKC]

Very much.

[Jason]

Republican congress won't do anything about it.

A bigger thing, imo, is the state of the census, it's being underfunded and the director just stepped down. The census shapes electoral votes and districting.

[Crazed_Insanity]

One thing I don't understand is that why only republicans have a advantage with redistricting? By specifically carving out red areas, should the leftovers be blue by default? Or are republicans carving out only some all red districts but left some reds to mess with the leftover blue?

Anyway, however the republicans gained the advantage, why couldn't democrats play the same game or deter the republicans from gaining anymore advantage?

[Kchrpm]

As a rudimentary example, let's say you have two districts next to each other, one with high population and one with low population. You could manipulate the district lines to grab the fringes of the large population, which could greatly change the percentages overall if they vote differently from the low population area.

Also, districts could be redrawn to evenly distribute dissenting voters among multiple districts, so that none are enough to win a vote in one single district.

And Democrats have done this before, not just Republicans. There should be some kind of checks & balances put in place to prevent any party from abusing redistricting abilities.

[Cam]

Saw someone on the face space share a screen cap of Fox news stating that Comey resigned. :erm:

[Fogelhund]

Saw someone on the face space share a screen cap of Fox news stating that Comey resigned. :erm:

https://youtu.be/cQ-21XFqNEo?t=32m41s

[Leon]

It is just astonishing to me that Trump hasn't been impeached.

From a distance, there seems to be quite a raft of grounds to do so.

Is it that there is a lack of testicular fortitude, or is that there is a massive complex legal quagmire around starting such an action?

[Crazed_Insanity]

There just aren't enough solid evidences for the republican congress to want to make a move against a president of their own party.

Plus, I'm sure even if enough evidences were discovered, I doubt Trump would resign in disgrace like Nixon, I'm willing to bet if he goes down, he will go down with guns ablazing... and hopefully take the entire swamp down with him. Let's just hope he won't start WWIII and take the whole world down with him...

[SportWagon]

Does Trump want to get a new FBI director who will re-open and pursue the Hillary email case?
Searches tend to suggest no, Trump just wants to stop the investigation into him.

If Trump doesn't want the media to portray him negatively, he should never utter negative sound bytes.

It's unbecoming for any politician, let alone a POTUS, to ever be seen resorting to generalized insults instead of sound reasoning regarding specific details.

[Leon]

There just aren't enough solid evidences for the republican congress to want to make a move against a president of their own party.

So is impeachment something that must be generated from within the political sphere, it isn't something generated from without? (eg: independent prosecutor). Obviously my knowledge of the workings of the USA political system is "at a great distance".

This seems remarkable if true, as that means that a corrupt political base will simply not prosecute their own, regardless of how blatant the level of injustice is. For what is touted as the land of the free, this surprises me.

[neanderthal]

There just aren't enough solid evidences for the republican congress to want to make a move against a president of their own party.


Bullshit. There is plenty to impeach him on. We can start with the emoluments clause. We can go to nepotism. We can ...

Republicans don't want to admit that their party is so shit that the voters rejected the best they had to offer for a caricature of an orangatang who is corrupt and unscrupulous. And they don't want to push him out and make it seem like they are making a power grab because he is popular; the people will turn against them.

But they ultimately lack the balls to simply say "our platform is shit."


Plus, I'm sure even if enough evidences were discovered, I doubt Trump would resign in disgrace like Nixon, I'm willing to bet if he goes down, he will go down with guns ablazing... and hopefully take the entire swamp down with him. Let's just hope he won't start WWIII and take the whole world down with him...

Don't hold your breath. When he does get impeached... , ... actually, ... hold your breath.

[neanderthal]

So is impeachment something that must be generated from within the political sphere, it isn't something generated from without? (eg: independent prosecutor). Obviously my knowledge of the workings of the USA political system is "at a great distance".

This seems remarkable if true, as that means that a corrupt political base will simply not prosecute their own, regardless of how blatant the level of injustice is. For what is touted as the land of the free, this surprises me.

Republicans control the House and the Senate. The articles of impeachment have to be brought up in those spheres.

Just as President Obama did put forth a Jobs Bill and an Infrastructure Bill and so forth, but John Boenher never brought them up for a vote in the Congress, any member can invoke them, but the chair of the House and the chair of the Senate have to bring it to the floor for an actual vote.

[MR2 Fan]

Saw someone on the face space share a screen cap of Fox news stating that Comey resigned. :erm:

you were expecting something accurate?

[MR2 Fan]

Bullshit. There is plenty to impeach him on. We can start with the emoluments clause. We can go to nepotism. We can ...


Yeah, there's at LEAST 3-4 things that are impeachable and some were already there on the day he was elected!

The problem is that there's several other GOP members who seem to be involved with the Russia like Paul Ryan, Bitch Mcconnell (how that asshole ever gets re-elected is crazy) and others.

The rest are too chicken shit or too happy with the way things are going to care.

[Drachen596]

Do we honestly think Hilary would have kept Comey? How many were calling for his head back during the election? How many of those who were calling for his resignation or firing are now shocked that he got fired?

JFK had Bobby as Attorney General, their father was an Ambassador. Bill named Hilary to a spot on the staff back when he was President and federal appeals judges said the anti nepotism law did not apply to white house staff positions.

[Freude am Fahren]

You can't fire someone for something they did 7 months ago (that helped you, and you praised, btw), just now that they are investigating you and your administration, and blame it on said bullshit, without people calling it bullshit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So is impeachment something that must be generated from within the political sphere, it isn't something generated from without? (eg: independent prosecutor). Obviously my knowledge of the workings of the USA political system is "at a great distance".

This seems remarkable if true, as that means that a corrupt political base will simply not prosecute their own, regardless of how blatant the level of injustice is. For what is touted as the land of the free, this surprises me.

It's up to the various branches of government to check and balance each other. It'll be quite difficult for everyone to become corrupted together... As if all or most of our government officials end up becoming Putin's bitches...

If Americans think the entire govt can't be trusted, our main way of impeaching this corrupt govt will be exercising our guns. Founders know that voting or trials probably won't be very effective anymore if somehow we have a corrupt dictator in charge...

Impeachment rarely happened in the US and none were ever successful. Nixon quit on his own(with just threat of impeachment).

One thing I'd give Trump is that he's never fail to surprise me since the start of his campaign... So I wouldn't be too surprised if he ended up becoming the 1st to be impeached. I also wouldn't be too surprised if he somehow ended up becoming one of the great... We're too close to properly rate him... Assuming we don't all become extinct by nuclear war, I'm sure it'll be interesting looking back from an historian's perspective...

[Freude am Fahren]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/fsxzfbdmqbdfvkiuesky.gif

[Freude am Fahren]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/x9vqi88ems1du5sjznm4.png

[Jason]

So is impeachment something that must be generated from within the political sphere, it isn't something generated from without? (eg: independent prosecutor). Obviously my knowledge of the workings of the USA political system is "at a great distance".

This seems remarkable if true, as that means that a corrupt political base will simply not prosecute their own, regardless of how blatant the level of injustice is. For what is touted as the land of the free, this surprises me.

It requires both houses of Congress to impeach the POTUS. Both houses are in Republican party control. Trump is Republican.

It's not going to happen, unless Democrats regain control in Congress.

And Democrats won't regain control in congress any time soon due to districting issues.

[Jason]

Do we honestly think Hilary would have kept Comey? How many were calling for his head back during the election? How many of those who were calling for his resignation or firing are now shocked that he got fired?

JFK had Bobby as Attorney General, their father was an Ambassador. Bill named Hilary to a spot on the staff back when he was President and federal appeals judges said the anti nepotism law did not apply to white house staff positions.

The only thing Comey did wrong, objectively, is going public with an FBI investigation, when normally they are very private. Also, he went public with the Clinton investigation during the election, but didn't go public with the Trump investigation that started up in the Summer. I'm not sure Clinton would have kept Comey, or just slapped him on the wrist.

[novicius]

Sadly accurate, Jason. :up:

[MR2 Fan]

a few important tweets today:

========================
Jayne Miller‏Verified account @jemillerwbal 2h2 hours ago

Annapolis firm targeted by FBI touted for pioneering the use of technology in political campaigns. Represents GOP candidates nationwide



Impeach Donald Trump‏ @Impeach_D_Trump 59m59 minutes ago

BREAKING:

The GOP Fundraising Firm in Annapolis is called 'Strategic Campaign Group'

We have confirmed They Have Ties to Paul Manafort


====================

Paul Manafort who has major ties to Russia

[neanderthal]

Do we honestly think Hilary would have kept Comey? How many were calling for his head back during the election? How many of those who were calling for his resignation or firing are now shocked that he got fired?

JFK had Bobby as Attorney General, their father was an Ambassador. Bill named Hilary to a spot on the staff back when he was President and federal appeals judges said the anti nepotism law did not apply to white house staff positions.

Bobby was a highly regarded lawyer in his own right. Their dad had already been an ambassador.

Let's compare to Jared and Ivanka.

[Tom Servo]

Do we honestly think Hilary would have kept Comey?

Of note, as things stand, Hillary would not have been potentially under investigation by Comey had she fired him.

It's not so much that we all love Comey. It's that the reasoning behind the decision combined with the timing smells more like bullshit than the actual pile of shit left over here by a bull.

[Drachen596]

Theyve been searching for russia evidence since before election day. Wheres it at?

[FaultyMario]

In the stuff that's not been released.

In essence, business deals.

[Drachen596]

Its in the business deals for BOTH sides though. The global economy they all demand basically requires it. Podesta was on the board of an energy company that got big investment cash from a state run Russian company.


This whole thing is going to turn out with nothing happening. Its the Dem version of the Benghazi attack investigations.

[Tom Servo]

I'm not aware of a lot of investigations where the people doing the investigation make evidence public in the middle of said investigation.

Also, it's not so much that they've done business, it's that so far there appears to be evidence that they are *continuing* to do business, and also had rewards promised in exchange for acts performed by the president and his associates.

Now, you may very well be right. This might be like Benghazi and there literally isn't anything there. But don't you think maybe they should at least get one investigation, rather then the multiple ones that Benghazi got?

Finally, do you really buy that the firing was related to the Clinton investigation? Fired by a guy who literally led chants of "Lock Her Up?" C'mon.

[Jason]

The US is considering banning all electronics larger than cell phones in the cabin on flights originating from Europe. Say good bye to major revenue there.

[Drachen596]

Comey supposedly lied about information regarding the Email investigation. I don't buy that its the entire reason but i also dont but the he's investigating me so i gotta fire him point of view either. Both sides at various points have called/demanded he be fired, resigned, beheaded, or whatever. I think his time in office wouldn't have gone much farther than it did had Hilary won either. btw do you think that if she had won that there would be ANY Russia investigation?


as for the airline thing, i feel like we'll reach a point where people aren't allowed to take ANYTHING electronic on if they keep going. the current reasoning is the ability of the terrorist organizations to make IEDs/Bombs that are small enough to hide inside a laptop.

Also, I thought TSA forced you to prove the laptop or tablet worked while passing through the security checkpoints?

[G'day Mate]

Is he perhaps setting up a kangaroo court over wiretapping?

[Tom Servo]

Well, hey, that's the fun part of actually having the investigation, Drachen. We can get ideally as close to the truth as possible rather than just saying "Drachen's got a gut feeling about this, so there's probably nothing there."

[Freude am Fahren]

So this week has basically been the exact thing you expect when you elect a guy to "run the country like a business".

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-asked-james-comey-to-pledge-his-loyalty-to-him/

[Jason]

as for the airline thing, i feel like we'll reach a point where people aren't allowed to take ANYTHING electronic on if they keep going. the current reasoning is the ability of the terrorist organizations to make IEDs/Bombs that are small enough to hide inside a laptop.

Also, I thought TSA forced you to prove the laptop or tablet worked while passing through the security checkpoints?

TSA historically only x-rays laptops/tablets separate. The last flight (10 days ago) I took required anything larger than a cell phone to be out of a bag and x-rayed separately. But other than that, they don't require you to prove it works. If they did that, the lines would be exceedingly long.

[Tom Servo]

That is gonna suck though. I found my tablet to be invaluable for passing time on my last trans-atlantic flight.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wonder what caused this new ban...

Anyway, if there's a laptop/tablet bomb, what difference does it make if it's on a passenger's lap or beneath the plane in a luggage?

Pretty soon, we'll ban commercial flight altogether...

Anyway, the Trump/Comey thing sure is getting more interesting, can't wait to see how it'll eventually turn out!

[Tom Servo]

Drachen, out of curiosity, has the Sarah Huckabee Sanders statement that the president fired Comey to help put an end to the Russia investigation or Trump's tweets about Comey and "tapes" changed your opinion on this at all? If so, how?

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18446804_1809709569055968_4277605283687170645_n.jp g?oh=b4efcc1ab67e8dff4859f4bd9c5d0fea&oe=59B8AEBD

[Jason]

Note the passenger reading a book instead of a kindle. ;)

[Tom Servo]

Note the passenger reading a book instead of a kindle. ;)

Goddamn Pinko Commies

[Freude am Fahren]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_1P3G9V0AA6_x-.jpg

[Cam]

:twitch: :smh:

[Jason]

"Spank bank"?

I hate Trump as much as the next guy, but what's with the shaming? A) He should be able to be proud of his daughter's accomplishments, which includes modeling. B) If a conservative said similar about a liberal politician/lawyer's daughter, there would be crazy outrage about 'body shaming' 'slut shaming' etc.

This sort of shit doesn't do anyone any good.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, not so sure that I'm in agreement with Bonnie there, but I am in agreement with everyone that saying "Jealous?" was creepy.

[21Kid]

I don't know. I'm not sure I would post pictures of my daughter in lingerie saying "Brains and Beauty"
(maybe it's because I have a teenage daughter)
If it were me, I'd post a pic of her in her cap and gown from her Ivy League school. :shrug:
Nothing wrong with her doing the shoot. And, I'm all for him appreciating her modeling... But, I'd select a different photo of her to post from my account, personally.

[Cam]

That's because you're intelligent and classy. *swoon*

[Jason]

Yeah, not so sure that I'm in agreement with Bonnie there, but I am in agreement with everyone that saying "Jealous?" was creepy.

Yeah, I didn't even react to that, because I expect it from them at this point.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, not so sure that I'm in agreement with Bonnie there, but I am in agreement with everyone that saying "Jealous?" was creepy.

Yes. This is the point.

The pic isn't that salacious. And though most normal people wouldn't choose that picture of their daughter to show off, it's his response that really makes it creepy.

I wouldn't call it slut-shaming either.


And just to make a final note: A lot of what I post in here is meme thread material that just happens to be political. Not everything is supposed to be taken so seriously.

[MR2 Fan]

Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian diplomats in their Oval Office meeting last week

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.4443d1a36c06

He just keeps punching himself in the face, meanwhile the GOP aren't doing anything.

[Tom Servo]

I just saw it described as "The Producers" theory: He doesn't want this job and he keeps upping the ante wondering just what the fuck he has to do to get fired.

Springtime for Hitler and all that.

[Sad, little man]

Don't give him any ideas.

[neanderthal]

Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian diplomats in their Oval Office meeting last week

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.4443d1a36c06

He just keeps punching himself in the face, meanwhile the GOP aren't doing anything.


I just saw it described as "The Producers" theory: He doesn't want this job and he keeps upping the ante wondering just what the fuck he has to do to get fired.

Springtime for Hitler and all that.

The Republicans are cowards and traitors. There. I said it.

[neanderthal]

People who would have gone ape shit if this latest furore was about Hillary are as quiet as church mice!

[G'day Mate]

Well here's an experiment you guys can conduct. Say things about Trump to the Republicans you know but replace his name with Clinton's and see how they react.

[Tom Servo]

I keep thinking that'd be fun, but most of the Trump shit is too on the nose. It's like saying "Did you hear Clinton shit in her own hand and threw it at Sean Spicer?" "Nice try, Lieberal, we know who did that."

[G'day Mate]

No doubt followed by "Yoo-Ess-Ay! Yoo-Ess-Ay!"

[Tom Servo]

Last 16 hours or so:

Media: Trump did this thing.

White House spokespeople: This is fake news. Trump did no such thing.

Trump on Twitter: I totally did the thing.

I'm sensing a pattern here.

[Leon]

Stupid is as stupid does?

[Jason]

Last 16 hours or so:

Media: Trump did this thing.

White House spokespeople: This is fake news. Trump did no such thing.

Trump on Twitter: I totally did the thing.

I'm sensing a pattern here.

It's been a little sad seeing so many liberal 'intellectuals' complain that Trump did something illegal, though.

The POTUS is basically THE authority when it comes to classification, so he's fully allowed to do what he did. Not really sure why they scrambled to hide it really. That being said, just because he can do it, doesn't mean he should do it. Being loose with classified info really strains relationships with the intelligence community, and hurts trust among our allies, not to mention could possibly compromise the safety of various assets.

[MR2 Fan]

It's been a little sad seeing so many liberal 'intellectuals' complain that Trump did something illegal, though.

The POTUS is basically THE authority when it comes to classification, so he's fully allowed to do what he did. Not really sure why they scrambled to hide it really. That being said, just because he can do it, doesn't mean he should do it. Being loose with classified info really strains relationships with the intelligence community, and hurts trust among our allies, not to mention could possibly compromise the safety of various assets.

Watergate didn't bring Nixon down because of what happened....the cover-up did. Trump has done nothing but suspicious activity and VERY suspicious in the past week or so.

He fired Comey and the NEXT day, invites Russians with Russian STATE media because, as Trump said himself in an interview, because Putin ASKED HIM TO, but NO U.S. media into the Oval Office, then shares secrets that we now know came from the Israelis.

[Jason]

No arguments there; Republicans won't do shit, though. :(

[Tom Servo]

So Trump met with Comey back in February asking him to lay off on Flynn, eh?

Again, (some of) these things are not illegal, but I think it's hard to argue that they're not detrimental to the country.

[neanderthal]

"But her emails..."

[G'day Mate]

I suppose he's busy deleting memos now?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Blue team could've gone with a candidate without email baggage and a better anti-established..., but chose to cater to the rich of wall st and Silicon Valley instead.

It's really funny that supposedly a party for the common people ended up catering to the rich...

It's even funnier that a party of the rich could end up convincing to suffering poor that he can do things for them...

Anyway, hope this fiasco can really help Americans wake up to either reform our 2party system... Or perhaps Bernie sanders can start throwing a new party.

[Tom Servo]

Also of note in the article about the Flynn thing, Trump suggested to Comey that they should be jailing reporters.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/politics/james-comey-trump-flynn-russia-investigation.html?_r=0

[Tom Servo]

But her emails...

:rolleyes:

[Jason]

:lol:

[MR2 Fan]

I have a new theory about what might happen.

The GOP will impeach Trump very soon for obstruction of justice, IF they continue to stall it, then the rest of the Russia investigations may bring other GOP members down who may have also been involved, like Pence. So if Pence and who knows how many others are in the Russia investigation, they might sacrifice Trump in order to take the heat off of themselves at least in the mind of the general public if not the FBI

[Fogelhund]

I have a new theory about what might happen.

The GOP will impeach Trump very soon for obstruction of justice, IF they continue to stall it, then the rest of the Russia investigations may bring other GOP members down who may have also been involved, like Pence. So if Pence and who knows how many others are in the Russia investigation, they might sacrifice Trump in order to take the heat off of themselves at least in the mind of the general public if not the FBI


The hole in that argument, is that I doubt Trump's ego allows him to be the guy who takes the fall for everyone else. If the others are guilty, he's going to sing like a canary.

[Jason]

Also, the Republicans in Congress won't turn on Trump until they are assured it won't cost them RNC money in upcoming elections.

[tigeraid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14HiLa02E3k

[Tom Servo]

Well, Putin's putting the screws to Trump now. Offering a transcript of the meeting between him and the diplomats. If true, that means that Trump let them record the meeting and potentially put a bug in the Oval Office.

Of course, this will all end up meaning nothing because, for some reason, the GOP are still willing to let all this shit happen to advance their agenda.

[drew]

...yet, had this been HRC, she would have been impeached by March 15th.


Fuck the GOP. I hope, I really, really hope, that they all pay in November next year.

There's two trains of thought in my opinion with this:

1: They're all in on it (or most are), thus why they're turning a blind eye to it where if the other candidate were in office, it'd be a relentless tirade of shit.
2: They're just letting him "go" and self-immolate while applauding him doing so, which allows them to ultimately get the person they wanted in the seat there in the first place.


In either case, to me, it would be a slap in the face to their voters. Not the Trump diehards, but the party-line republican voters that choked down a super-sized shit sandwich because they'd rather die than vote Democrat.

I have a feeling, or at least hope, that may change. Anyone with an IQ above 40 saw the signs he was in no way fit/equipped (mentally/intellectually) to hold this position.

This is just a big "told you so" to everyone he conned*



Again, not taking into consideration the rabid base that will never see ANYTHING wrong with it, other than it was a global conspiracy against their messiah by all media, politicians, scientists, anyone with a maturity above age 5. Thus, I feel no sympathy for them, at all. This is the beat they marched to. It's just that the composer turns out to be a fish out of water flailing in futility on top of a kettle drum while his minions are playing whack-a-mole on the others.

[thesameguy]

Don't think for a second anyone is learning anything here. The only reason Trump is failing is because he's being sabotaged by the Democrats, the media, and/or the establishment Republicans. The only problem with the Republicans is the current batch of Republicans. Next time people have an opportunity to vote, the best case scenario is going to be different Republicans, not different people. Regardless of who you believe is the problem - the rich, the welfare society people, the minorities, the sexually different, whoever - a batch of "leaders" who fail to execute your vision for a Great America doesn't demonstrate a problem with your beliefs, it demonstrates a problem with that batch. You just get another batch. You don't suddenly accept that people need healthcare or that the sign on the bathroom door won't magically keep out the creepy people or whatever. The only thing that cures the growing opinion/experience/learning gap in this country is fire. The cleansing power of fire.

[MR2 Fan]

Don't think for a second anyone is learning anything here. The only reason Trump is failing is because he's being sabotaged by the Democrats, the media, and/or the establishment Republicans. The only problem with the Republicans is the current batch of Republicans. Next time people have an opportunity to vote, the best case scenario is going to be different Republicans, not different people. Regardless of who you believe is the problem - the rich, the welfare society people, the minorities, the sexually different, whoever - a batch of "leaders" who fail to execute your vision for a Great America doesn't demonstrate a problem with your beliefs, it demonstrates a problem with that batch. You just get another batch. You don't suddenly accept that people need healthcare or that the sign on the bathroom door won't magically keep out the creepy people or whatever. The only thing that cures the growing opinion/experience/learning gap in this country is fire. The cleansing power of fire.

I don't think it's as much about people changing minds and voting for a different party (if that's what you're implying) as much as it is...who's too lazy or disenfranchised to go out and vote vs. who's fired up/mad, etc. who will go out and vote.

Then mix in the problems with voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc. to also skew the results.

Anyway, I feel like the 2018 campaign season is going to start in the late summer/early fall....because HOPEFULLY the smarter Democrats will do what they should have been doing for the past decade or so...grow a backbone and fight back, with words and actions and tag every GOP member to the sinking traitor.

[drew]

OH, I know. I did say "hope" a lot....


As an aside, Steph just texted that someone in line at Home Depot told her to "pray for Trump", in light of the DOJ's appointment of Mullen. I asked her if she said "sure, but I believe he may be god's redheaded step child at this point"....no response.

[thesameguy]

I pray for Trump every day. We cannot possibly let him go yet, his fireball is not nearly big enough to take out everything that needs to be taken out.

This past election showed me that there are a lot people who are more concerned with what everyone else might be taking from them rather than what they might offer to other people. And, it showed everyone that polarization is fine if not great and totally desirable. It's going to take a lot of time for people to get over fighting with their neighbors and getting back to what matters: Fighting the power.

IMHO, as much as I hate to think it, we need to back off social issues a little bit - at least as spotlight item. We need candidates that will focus on themselves. Individuals might oppose universal healthcare or religious rights, but with few exceptions nobody opposes getting lobbyists out of Washington, etc. IMHO, we'd be well served focusing on fixing the government rather than trying to fix things with the [broken-ass] government. Wacking nails with a bent hammer is a waste of time.

[Tom Servo]

1: They're all in on it (or most are), thus why they're turning a blind eye to it where if the other candidate were in office, it'd be a relentless tirade of shit.



Evan McMullin, who is in his role as policy director to the House Republican Conference participated in the June 15 conversation, said: 'It's true that Majority Leader McCarthy said that he thought that candidate Trump was on the Kremlin's payroll. Speaker Ryan was concerned about that leaking.

And....scene.

[thesameguy]

MCCARTHYISM, 2017 Edition.

[drew]

There's just not enough booze for this shit anymore.

[thesameguy]

No, you need to switch to something more pharmaceutical in nature. It's the only way to be sure.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I pray for Trump every day. We cannot possibly let him go yet, his fireball is not nearly big enough to take out everything that needs to be taken out.

This past election showed me that there are a lot people who are more concerned with what everyone else might be taking from them rather than what they might offer to other people. And, it showed everyone that polarization is fine if not great and totally desirable. It's going to take a lot of time for people to get over fighting with their neighbors and getting back to what matters: Fighting the power.

IMHO, as much as I hate to think it, we need to back off social issues a little bit - at least as spotlight item. We need candidates that will focus on themselves. Individuals might oppose universal healthcare or religious rights, but with few exceptions nobody opposes getting lobbyists out of Washington, etc. IMHO, we'd be well served focusing on fixing the government rather than trying to fix things with the [broken-ass] government. Wacking nails with a bent hammer is a waste of time.

Yes.

I'd totally vote for you if you run for public office.

Most GTXFers here are too much like roofer standing on the left side of the roof! :p

[neanderthal]

Swervo.

You sir, are a genius!

[tigeraid]

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18556303_1336313479789327_3704081411554458541_n.jp g?oh=d85592e790424e3588cc2e652145a3cb&oe=59B3C918

[neanderthal]

The orange toddler is such a ...

[G'day Mate]

Hah.

[thesameguy]

Read this:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republicans-fearing-for-their-safety-as-anger-threats-mount/ar-BBBlFlA?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

which had this gem;


Rep. Dave Brat (R-Va.) described attendees at a town hall in his district last week who booed him down after he said people's rights are God-given.
"They booed God. They booed the pastor. They booed the prayer. They booed the name of the church. They booed when I said rights come from God," Brat recounted to The Hill just off the House floor. "That's a fundamental tenet of western civilization. I mean, I didn't think that was partisan."

[drew]

Spin spin spin.


They're all douchebags.

[neanderthal]

Dems flipped seats in two state races yesterday, one in New Hampshire the other in New Yawk. I hope this becomes a national fucking trend.

Republicans are a disgrace right now.

[drew]

:up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-black-colleges-20170519-story.html

Here's something Trump's doing that got me stumped. Why is he going out of his way helping the historically black colleges? More so than Obama! What gives? Most blacks don't like him and didn't vote for him and even the black students at those colleges hated him and all his supporters...

Just wondering what's in it for Trump for financially helping them like that...

[Kchrpm]

Trump struggled getting votes from the black community, after insulting them in so many ways, so he got a photo op with heads of HBCUs early on in his tenure. It's good that he's doing some small things to help them out, but they still make it sound like they're doing so as a matter of agenda (photo ops, good press, and having a place for blacks to go other than where whites go as proof that school "choice" works) more than an actual interest in helping minorities.

[MR2 Fan]

I heard he's been trying to get Fredrick Douglass to help out too :lol:

[George]

Like he did during the '92 LA riots? ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump struggled getting votes from the black community, after insulting them in so many ways, so he got a photo op with heads of HBCUs early on in his tenure. It's good that he's doing some small things to help them out, but they still make it sound like they're doing so as a matter of agenda (photo ops, good press, and having a place for blacks to go other than where whites go as proof that school "choice" works) more than an actual interest in helping minorities.

Still, he won without black votes. He doesn't need black votes. He doesn't need photo ops with blacks..., other than the black educators who ended up receiving funds, most blacks still hate him. I just don't quite understand what good is he getting out of this gesture. Unless he's trying to purposely piss off white supremacists?

You see why I'm kinda confused?

This dude is not just having photos taken with black educators, but actually supporting them financially! More action than Obama administration! And what is he getting in return? Not much.

I suspect Trump admin's probably using it as an opportunity to ignorantly support school 'choice'... anyway, still early in his admin... we'll see how this goes.

[The359]

I don't even have to look it up to know that the claim of "more than Obama did" is false.

[Kchrpm]

Trump won the last election partially due to liberal/Democratic voter apathy, towards national government in general and Hilary Clinton in particular. Presumably the Democratic party will have learned from that during the next election, so Trump will need to get more people on his side.

Or maybe it was part of what he talked about with Steve Harvey and Kanye West.

[novicius]

Voter suppression and gerrymandering. #coff

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't even have to look it up to know that the claim of "more than Obama did" is false.

Why? You have good reasons to believe LA Times is also in the business of fake news? If you do, then the quote from LA Times below is not trustworthy. However, I have no reason to believe LA Times are printing fake news.



Johnny C. Taylor Jr., president of the Thurgood Marshall College Fund, a nonprofit that helps provide financial assistance to students who attend black colleges, says the signs from the White House are encouraging.

“In the first four months of this presidency, the Trump administration has been far more responsive to our community than the past administration,” Taylor said. “I, for one, judge people by what they do — not what they say.”

Taylor points to, among other things, the bipartisan spending bill Congress passed and Trump signed this month, which includes an expansion of Pell grant eligibility to year-round. (In recent years, Obama signed budgets that only allowed Pell grants to be used for two semesters in a school year.)

Moreover, Taylor says, Trump’s own budget proposal left funding for black colleges and universities untouched, even as it proposed slashing the Department of Education budget 13.5%.

“Level funding is a win for HBCUs in a season where large cuts were made across the board,” said Taylor, who has penned op-eds lauding Congress and the Trump administration’s work on behalf of black colleges.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Or maybe it was part of what he talked about with Steve Harvey and Kanye West.

:lol:

Maybe...

[neanderthal]

Still, he won without black votes. He doesn't need black votes. He doesn't need photo ops with blacks..., other than the black educators who ended up receiving funds, most blacks still hate him. I just don't quite understand what good is he getting out of this gesture. Unless he's trying to purposely piss off white supremacists?

You see why I'm kinda confused?

This dude is not just having photos taken with black educators, but actually supporting them financially! More action than Obama administration! And what is he getting in return? Not much.

I suspect Trump admin's probably using it as an opportunity to ignorantly support school 'choice'... anyway, still early in his admin... we'll see how this goes.


Trump won the last election partially due to liberal/Democratic voter apathy, towards national government in general and Hilary Clinton in particular. By that, I mean idiots like you falling for the Republican bullshit about Hillary, her trustworthiness, her emails, Benghazi, and maybe some other nonsense about her being an angry person. and voting for some other wacko. Presumably the Democratic party will have learned from that during the next election, so Trump will need to get more people on his side.

Or maybe it was part of what he talked about with Steve Harvey and Kanye West.


FTFY.

Keefs to well bred to even think that. Me, i'm more of a cunt. And becoming more curmudgeonly in my dotage.


I don't even have to look it up to know that the claim of "more than Obama did" is false.

Obama did more in his first week than Trump has done in his first four months.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Do you realize you sound just like a roofer, but only more liberal?

For the record, I didn't fall for the republicans... Nor the democrats... Both parties were not trustworthy enough...

Forget about her emails..., I'd just like to get to the bottom of Benghazi, but due to politics, we'll probably never know the real truth.

[neanderthal]

Do you realize you sound just like a roofer, but only more liberal?

For the record, I didn't fall for the republicans... Nor the democrats... Both parties were not trustworthy enough...

Forget about her emails..., I'd just like to get to the bottom of Benghazi, but due to politics, we'll probably never know the real truth.

Well, I tend to live in the realm of facts so even your example is wrong. He unfriended me on facebook because I kept demanding evidence and providing fact based arguments.

Benghazi is simple. It's been out there for years already.

Republicans cut State Dept funding, and Hillary Clinton warned Congress (http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-hilary-slam-gop-spending-cuts-before-benghazi-detrimental-to-americas-national-security/) about that being detrimental to our national security. That Was 6 years ago.

But you were probably so blinded by her emails that you probably didn't pay attention.

[thesameguy]

Wonder why when Republicans say "we need more bombers (from people who give us money) for national security" it's laughable, but when H-Cog says "we need more money for the State Department (who gives me money) for national security" it's rly srs.

[neanderthal]

Voter suppression and gerrymandering. #coff

This is becoming more and more obvious too. Something like 20000 people were denied a vote in Wisconsin, and the Tangerine McSatan won there by a tiny margin. I cant remember where I read that though.

[21Kid]

He also "won" by -3 million votes. :/

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, I tend to live in the realm of facts so even your example is wrong. He unfriended me on facebook because I kept demanding evidence and providing fact based arguments.

Benghazi is simple. It's been out there for years already.

Republicans cut State Dept funding, and Hillary Clinton warned Congress (http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-hilary-slam-gop-spending-cuts-before-benghazi-detrimental-to-americas-national-security/) about that being detrimental to our national security. That Was 6 years ago.

But you were probably so blinded by her emails that you probably didn't pay attention.

You need to consider ALL available facts. Not just facts supporting the left.

I believe Vox is left leaning... so let me cite them:

In short: counterfactuals are always hard, so it's tough to say whether or not the State Department could have stopped this specific attack had it better fortified the mission or been better funded. https://www.vox.com/cards/benghazi-ambassador-stevens-attack/blame-obama

Benghazi wasn't that simple.

If it's all because the worst congress ever that cut security funding years prior..., then why the fuck do you put a US diplomat in such a dangerous area especially when all other allies have pulled out? Is it really all because of the stupid Republicans? Com'on. Besides fact based arguments, have some common sense.

[Tom Servo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAuAEEiWsAAGSH5.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAOHAv4V0AA41No.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/18664505_690993194425683_1820733860618473251_n.jpg ?oh=1829633f365b6baa09159b117bde9a4b&oe=59AAF38D

[MR2 Fan]

:snap:

[neanderthal]

You need to consider ALL available facts. Not just facts supporting the left.

I believe Vox is left leaning... so let me cite them:
https://www.vox.com/cards/benghazi-ambassador-stevens-attack/blame-obama

Benghazi wasn't that simple.

If it's all because the worst congress ever that cut security funding years prior..., then why the fuck do you put a US diplomat in such a dangerous area especially when all other allies have pulled out? Is it really all because of the stupid Republicans? Com'on. Besides fact based arguments, have some common sense.

There are only 4 countries that the US does NOT have formal diplomatic relations with; Bhutan, North Korea, Syria and Iran. But go ahead and pretend we don't have embassies in war torn/ strifed countries. We'll wait while you embarrass yourself.

Your own fucking quote from Vox says that it's doubtful more funding could have stopped the attack but you still think there are questions around Hillary's role in it? Who needs to exercise common sense. We wouldn't be having this entire conversation at all if...

But I digress.

Fact; a Republican Congress, to spite Obama, cut the budget as part of their "sequester." Hillary Clinton DID NOT cut funds from the State Dept.
Fact; Hillary Clinton warned Congress that said budget cuts could be detrimental. I already cited that.
Fact; a mob of people decided to attack the embassy in Benghazi. Hillary Clinton was not privy to their decision making, nor consulted by said mob prior to said attack.
Fact; Hillary Clinton does not have a time machine/ device or an ability to look into the future and see what people are going to do. Whether individually or as a mob.
Fact; In fact nobody has such a machine/ device
Fact; Because such a machine/ device does not exist.

So exactly what are you doubtful about vis a vis "her role" in the whole Benghazi thing. The fact that we are still talking about this shit 5 years after the fact (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-19587068) means YOU HAVE FALLEN FOR THE REPUBLICAN INFORMATION MACHINE!

Is BBC (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-19900756) a suitable non liberal source for you?

Last paragraph in source above.


Democratic staff noted that House Republicans had voted for an embassy security funding package that was $459m (£286m) less than what the Obama administration had requested.

What about the family of Ambassador Christopher Stevens? Are they a credible source (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/chris-stevens-hillary-clinton-benghazi-224928) about Benghazi?


Instead, Stevens remarked that if any entity had any culpability, it was CONGRESS for the State Department's budget.

It's 20fucking17.


Learn how to Google (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+do+i+use+google)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude, the reason why I said you and roofer are alike is precisely because he'd probably conclude it's a simple case of democrats fault and you also think it's a simple case of problems caused by the republicans.

As for me, please understand that I don't have anything personal against Hillary, nor am I still trying to lock her up..., just trying to understand exactly what happened. Surely it's not as simple as our ambassador killed because congress cut budget on all of his colleagues...

Anyway, besides cutting back on security, I do believe it's time US cut back on meddling with foreign affairs... Such as help toppling one dictator and then help installing another one... While creating more terrorists in the process.

But of course what I want is probably not in line with the 'establishment'. Yes my main beef in against the establishment, not Clinton or her emails.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18740154_1863965833841675_3886054985876931562_n.jp g?oh=5c38715eeffec9337b5f2b14020a5aac&oe=59A688B7

[neanderthal]

I place blame squarely where it belongs, Democrat or Republican.

One side is fucking shit up right now, has been for about the last ten, twenty, thirty years?

There was insufficient security in Benghazi because Republicans cut the budget. Simple. The same clowns complaining about the deficit and how the massive debt we were incurring are right now trying to pass a budget that cuts taxes for the wealthy, hurts most Americans, and decreases Federal Income. And, they're planning to increase military spending. But the last few years the sky was falling because of our massive debt. You hear anybody talking bout that now? What's changed. I'll keep it simple and tell you; we no longer have a Black President.

Or we can talk Russia. Republicans said "about time" when Obama imposed sanctions on them/ expelled their diplomats/ whatever it was (I showed you how to google, do it your damned self!) and today nary a peep from them about Russia. You haven't had the intellectual curiosity to ask yourself why but...

You're still talking about Benghazi as though random acts of violence don't occur in the world all day. You fell Hook. Line. And Sinker for the Republican propaganda machine. There were [url=http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/may/12/john-garamendi/prior-benghazi-were-there-13-attacks-embassies-and/]multiple attacks on US Embassies, and deaths as well,[url] under George Bush' watch, but you only want to get to the bottom of the events surrounding Benghazi. Why that one and not the others? Do non Benghazi lives not matter?

Why? Simple. It was drummed into your head that there was something nefarious about it. You have no curiosity at all about the other events except the one that was publicised. And you sitting here talking about you didn't fall for their hype... Gerrarahere.

[FaultyMario]

You think Kushner will be indicted?

With all the attention focused on his Russian ties, I'm sure they're not looking at his relationship with Mexico. Remember how the State visit to Peña helped launch the final part of the campaign? I'm sure laws were broken there.

[neanderthal]

You think Kushner will be indicted?

With all the attention focused on his Russian ties, I'm sure they're not looking at his relationship with Mexico. Remember how the State visit to Peña helped launch the final part of the campaign? I'm sure laws were broken there.

I'm sure there will be charges and an indictment.

However, if some overzealous prosecutor starts too soon, and tangerine toddler will just write a pardon.

So, whoever is looking into this better be looking at the big picture; Trumpanzee first, then minions after, when their actions can't be pardoned.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, I think the Russian connection is quite clear for me even without any investigations. I really don't have anything to argue against you with. As much as I want an anti established candidate, I just couldn't bring myself to endorse Trump.

Back to Bengahzi, let me just respond you with my google result:

We should note that the vast majority of these deaths were not Americans. We counted 63 deaths that were either of non-Americans or of people whose nationality is unknown. Another three were U.S. civilians. Another 21 were workers at the U.S embassy or consulate, either of American or foreign nationality.

So, using what we think is the most reasonable definition, Garamendi's numbers are a bit low.

What about the implicit comparison he made between Benghazi and these previous attacks? That’s a little shakier.

Generally, the experts we contacted agreed that Garamendi was making a reasonable point that there has been a steady, and comparatively overlooked, series of deadly attacks on U.S. embassies in recent years.

Still, these experts also said there are valid reasons to treat Benghazi differently from the earlier attacks.

"Is Benghazi different? Absolutely," said Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and an adjunct assistant professor in Georgetown University’s security studies program.

One reason, he said, is that an American ambassador died in the attack, which hadn’t happened since the 1970s. Another relevant question, Gartenstein-Ross said, "is whether what happened was put to the American people in an honest manner, not just with respect to the administration, but also with respect to the intelligence community."

Gartenstein-Ross added that he wasn’t endorsing "how the Republicans go about" investigating this question. But he did say it’s a "real, legitimate question."

"As always, what causes the problem is not so much what happens, but the response to it," said Theodore R. Bromund, a senior research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation. "‘If the administration had come out shortly after the attack and said, ‘Our consulate was attacked by organized Islamist forces, and we will pursue these terrorists and bring them to justice, one way or the other,’ I very much doubt there would be much juice in these hearings, if indeed they were being held at all."

Lance Janda, a military historian at Cameron University, agreed that Benghazi brings up important issues.

"We probably should have had more United States forces on site or at least nearby," he said. And the administration had a "muddled response in terms of releasing information," he added.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/may/12/john-garamendi/prior-benghazi-were-there-13-attacks-embassies-and/

[neanderthal]

...said Theodore R. Bromund, a senior research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation. ... Remember me saying you fell for the Republican propaganda machine?


What exactly do you think the Heritage Foundation is?

I'll make it easy and tell you. A source of skewed news and a conservative opinion driver. Or, in other words, part of the Republican hype machine you keep saying you haven't fallen for.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So you think politifact has been duped like me for even quoting that guy? Can we safely label politifact as fake based on that alone?

[drew]

Mo, I commend your fortitude, I'd have (and DID) bowed out long ago.


It's been 15 years since we've had a drink, let's try not to make that another 15. :)

[mk]

Dang, not so long ago I realized that some is diminished to thicker black line.

Greasemonkey is doing its job exceptionally.

[MR2 Fan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBBwtSCV0AA658Q.jpg

[thesameguy]

So you think politifact has been duped like me for even quoting that guy? Can we safely label politifact as fake based on that alone?

Politifact is fairly non-partisan, skewing a bit liberal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolitiFact.com

[neanderthal]

So you think politifact has been duped like me for even quoting that guy? Can we safely label politifact as fake based on that alone?

No. A news reporter quoting a liar, lying, is not a liar. They are simply retelling what was told. That is a specious argument.

But, look at the source within the source. Is that reliable? This is what I was talking about regarding your lack of mental curiosity. If we can agree that the Heritage Foundation is a spewer of think pieces and conservative tripe, then that should make you ponder over any content they create. At least, critically examine it.

[neanderthal]

Mo, I commend your fortitude, I'd have (and DID) bowed out long ago.


It's been 15 years since we've had a drink, let's try not to make that another 15. :)

I tried but Billi keeps reeling me in with his off kilter logic.

Billi, both parties are the same, right?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-administration-plans-to-minimize-civil-rights-efforts-in-agencies/2017/05/29/922fc1b2-39a7-11e7-a058-ddbb23c75d82_story.html?utm_term=.eb0d8830ff17

[neanderthal]

Mo, I commend your fortitude, I'd have (and DID) bowed out long ago.


It's been 15 years since we've had a drink, let's try not to make that another 15. :)

Dude. It's been 15 years. :eek: :(
It won't.

I admire those who have the time, money, logistical capability and quite frankly, maturity, to go around the world on their motorcycles. I've always wanted to be that dude, ever since I saw dudes doing just that when I was a kid. I freely admit that I lack the time, money, maturity and logistical capability to undertake such an endevour.

But i've devised a plan to do so; in the United States.
My first stop was Johannesburg, California. My next stop is Dublin, California. Then London, Texas. Paris, Kentucky, etc, you get the drift. Even Hell, Michigan and Intercourse, Pennsylvania are on the list, because i'm a 10 year old and lack the maturity as i've already confessed.

The number of world "capitals" on the west is tiny. Out east there is a plethora of destinations awaiting my travels. I'll definitely be in touch as I make plans to be out that way.

[neanderthal]

Politifact is fairly non-partisan, skewing a bit liberal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolitiFact.com

It's sad that we're reduced to stating the obvious like this, but this is his M.O. (pun not intended.) Rather than debate the merits he will find an angle that doesn't address the argument. It's exhausting.

[drew]

Dude. It's been 15 years. :eek: :(
It won't.

I admire those who have the time, money, logistical capability and quite frankly, maturity, to go around the world on their motorcycles. I've always wanted to be that dude, ever since I saw dudes doing just that when I was a kid. I freely admit that I lack the time, money, maturity and logistical capability to undertake such an endevour.

But i've devised a plan to do so; in the United States.
My first stop was Johannesburg, California. My next stop is Dublin, California. Then London, Texas. Paris, Kentucky, etc, you get the drift. Even Hell, Michigan and Intercourse, Pennsylvania are on the list, because i'm a 10 year old and lack the maturity as i've already confessed.

The number of world "capitals" on the west is tiny. Out east there is a plethora of destinations awaiting my travels. I'll definitely be in touch as I make plans to be out that way.


:lol: Whatever it takes dude. :up:

It's a bitch being a 15 year old trapped in a 45 year old body. As well as not having the scheduling/financial freedom to just go to an airport and "go".


Fuck adult life.


We should rename this forum to "Mo Billi, Mo Silli"

[Crazed_Insanity]

No. A news reporter quoting a liar, lying, is not a liar. They are simply retelling what was told. That is a specious argument.

But, look at the source within the source. Is that reliable? This is what I was talking about regarding your lack of mental curiosity. If we can agree that the Heritage Foundation is a spewer of think pieces and conservative tripe, then that should make you ponder over any content they create. At least, critically examine it.
If it's a lie, politifact needs to weed it out rather than using it.

Also, you can't just reject the entire politifact article simply because of that one source.

I quoted their article, without any of Billi's commentary to show you why Benghazi was different and all you have to argue against that with is you don't like a particular source...

Fine, lets ignore that source, Benghazi incident was still different from the other attacks, right?

Fact based argument, remember?

Is it fact we haven't lost an ambassador since the 70s?

Also, you really thought our government's responses to the attack and to the public afterwards were as good as it gets? Given our money and Intel limitations? Can you please try to leave partisan politics out and focus only on facts?

[MR2 Fan]

Currently happening on Twitter:

SnowflakePrincess‏ @amandablount2 5h5 hours ago

I'm tracking *45's number right now. He is growing by around 100 bots a minute. He is massing a propaganda army.


JΞSŦΞR ✪ ΔCŦUΔL³³º¹‏ @th3j35t3r 9h9 hours ago

@realDonaldTrump << account has gained over 5 million followers in less than 3 days. Mostly bots. He's getting ready for something.


Tea Pain‏ @TeaPainUSA 33m33 minutes ago

Tea smells a Russia-bot "Denial of Content" attack comin'. They will flood Twitter with propaganda so that negative Trump news is diluted.

[drew]

Sure, why not!?

[21Kid]

It's sad that we're reduced to stating the obvious like this, but this is his M.O. (pun not intended.) Rather than debate the merits he will find an angle that doesn't address the argument. It's exhausting.That's why many of us gave up long ago. It's worth your sanity to give it a try. Nothing you do/say will help. Trust me. He's a lost cause.



Mo, I commend your fortitude, I'd have (and DID) bowed out long ago.
It's been 15 years since we've had a drink, let's try not to make that another 15. :)I'm here(ish) now too! 2-for-1 combo!!!!

[Fogelhund]

Happy Covfefe Day!!!

[neanderthal]

That's why many of us gave up long ago. It's worth your sanity to give it a try. Nothing you do/say will help. Trust me. He's a lost cause.

I give up too. But then my inner pedant sees something he posts and can't let it fo.



I'm here(ish) now too! 2-for-1 combo!!!!

Toofer!

[Crazed_Insanity]

I give up too. But then my inner pedant sees something he posts and can't let it go!

So I hope you're formulating a fact based response to my last post as I'm typing...

Or perhaps since this is a political thread, asking you to be unbiased politically is probably too much to ask... We ought not to be too hard on roofer too.

[neanderthal]

So I hope you're formulating a fact based response to my last post as I'm typing...

Or perhaps since this is a political thread, asking you to be unbiased politically is probably too much to ask... We ought not to be too hard on roofer too.

Oh shit. Aren't you the one who refused to answer a basic question for what, ... months? Fuck off.

Benghazi was a random attack implemented by rabble rousers in a crowd of angry people. If it was planned (typical embassy attacks) there would have been a bomb used; see almost every other embassy attack.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oh shit. Aren't you the one who refused to answer a basic question for what, ... months? Fuck off.
I'm sure most of my responses seemed unacceptable to you, but I believe I've always responded. If anything took months, it's probably only because I missed it?


Benghazi was a random attack implemented by rabble rousers in a crowd of angry people. If it was planned (typical embassy attacks) there would have been a bomb used; see almost every other embassy attack.
Anyway, I don't think we'll be able to find or google up facts about terrorists. We also don't have access to intel from CIA or whatever... so there's really no point to argue whether if that was planned or not. That was also not the point of contention. Security funding cuts is bad for any sort of attacks, planned or not.

I was mostly interested in knowing your response to this following question from my earlier post:

Also, you really thought our government's responses to the attack and to the public afterwards were as good as it gets? Given our money and Intel limitations? Can you please try to leave partisan politics out and focus only on facts?

[FaultyMario]

http://lmgtfy.com/?t=sc&q=benghazi+analysis+terrorism+countering

[tigeraid]

Happy Covfefe Day!!!

http://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p280x280/18893120_1894743707445174_1076719712114780010_n.jp g?oh=8d6155be6a6b6e4225ccf1afd2035891&oe=59A44318

[thesameguy]

Also, you really thought our government's responses to the attack and to the public afterwards were as good as it gets? Given our money and Intel limitations? Can you please try to leave partisan politics out and focus only on facts?

IMHO, a fair question, and one of the many reasons why I have a hard time trusting Clinton. Every time she was confronted with a sticky situation she dodged questions, gave non-answers, or even offered different and conflicting information over time. There was a huge article in, I think, Salon about this exact fact. Hillary has a long-term inability to directly answer questions - rather than confront issues head on or flat-out lie she offers pseudo-facts and vague responses and it makes her seem very sketchy.

I don't even care what series of events resulted in Benghazi because I don't believe anything could have been reasonably done to assuredly avert it, but I do care that after it happened Clinton failed to lay out the facts in such a way a functional post-mortem could be done.
I don't even care that Hillary ran her own email server, because I believe that everyone in Washington does shady shit in private to avoid public scrutiny, but I do care that after a light was put on her situation that she denied it, then half-denied it, then moderated having done it.

To me, Trump represents everything that is wrong with people.
To me, Clinton represents everything that is wrong with politics.

There is absolutely a practical difference. Maybe even an important difference, but functionally they're both asshats.

Trump is a lying asshole, but we know he's a lying asshole. We might find him standing with a box of matches while this country burns insisting he didn't do it and I'd be like, "Yep, that seems about right."
Clinton may or may not be a lying asshole, it's impossible to know. We might find her standing with a box of matches while this country burns insisting, "Well, what happened was..." and I'd be like, "Again? For real?"

Trump is without merit. Even the few small things he's promised (verbally, or by association) that I could point to as a silver lining have proven to be boondoggles. it's not really a surprise, of course, but one holds out hope. He is a disaster that gets worth by the day, and that is no small feat.

Clinton has merit. I believe in her commitment to healthcare and education and, really, America in general. She's done some good things. But she also pressed really hard for bombing Libya (which caused Benghazi), she pushed for the privatization of Mexico's energy industry (which had dubious benefits for Mexico, but some great benefits for her), her relationship with Wall Street is beyond suspect, and her relationship with the Clinton Foundation (and its extended relationships) is troubling. My opinions are not the result of GOP propaganda. I don't watch TV, the only news I read comes from left-leaning and international media. I judge her purely from things she has demonstrably done (or not done) and not from some 3rd party telling me what she meant. I judge her on the same criteria I'd judge anybody.

Would Clinton be better than Trump? Definitely.
Would Clinton be good? Not so sure.

[Kchrpm]

All those things you said :up:

Especially this:

To me, Trump represents everything that is wrong with people.
To me, Clinton represents everything that is wrong with politics.

[Crazed_Insanity]

http://lmgtfy.com/?t=sc&q=benghazi+analysis+terrorism+countering

That doesn't answer any of my questions at all regarding US government's response after the attack.

Official investigations have concluded a failure of bureaucracy during the attack. US forces were just not ready or too far away to intervene to help... most likely due to the security cuts made possible by the stupid Republicans. However, we can't blame it all on the stupid Republicans because if Republicans were to cut NASA funding and the result is lots of launch failures or some accidents in space stations. In the end, can NASA just turn around wash their hands clean and blame it all on Congress for cutting their funds? If stupid Republicans didn't cut funding, NASA would never have these kind of failures? It's sad that in our current political environment, we no longer have accountability to ourselves. Each side conveniently blames the other side for all the problems... as if folks on the other side can just all die and go to hell, we'd have utopia. Yeah, right.

Lastly, whether the attacks were planned or not, with bombs or not, result was serious. We haven't had an ambassador killed on the job since the 70's. Administration/State Dept shouldn't have tried to down play the tragedy as if it's just another random act of violence. At least act as if you're going to make the perpetrators pay or something and then use the opportunity to blame the Republicans for cutting security funding! Democrats gave the Republicans the fuel that fed this email fire... ended up in a defensive position when they could've easily be on the offensive.

To me, there are only 2 possibilities. 1) Democratic leadership are incapable and dumb(which I find it hard to believe. I'm pretty sure the Clintons and Obama are orders of magnitude smarter than any Republican politicians... including Trump!) 2) They had something to hide.

Our political system is fucked up as TSG pointed out. I'm not going to vote Hillary into office because of Trump. Wake up and smell the coffee Neaderthal..., that the current democratic leadership is NOT worth defending. I'm not siding with the Republicans either. The whole fucking system needs to go!

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.cnet.com/news/trump-paris-climate-agreement-elon-musk-apple-google-facebook-tech-leaders/

Sigh..., sad to see that Elon Musk's voice meant nothing to Trump.

Sadder for earth's climate of course. I think we're officially the world's biggest baddest evil empire. *Cue the imperial march music*

[neanderthal]

IMHO, a fair question, and one of the many reasons why I have a hard time trusting Clinton. Every time she was confronted with a sticky situation she dodged questions, gave non-answers, or even offered different and conflicting information over time. There was a huge article in, I think, Salon about this exact fact. Hillary has a long-term inability to directly answer questions - rather than confront issues head on or flat-out lie she offers pseudo-facts and vague responses and it makes her seem very sketchy.

I don't even care what series of events resulted in Benghazi because I don't believe anything could have been reasonably done to assuredly avert it, but I do care that after it happened Clinton failed to lay out the facts in such a way a functional post-mortem could be done.
I don't even care that Hillary ran her own email server, because I believe that everyone in Washington does shady shit in private to avoid public scrutiny, but I do care that after a light was put on her situation that she denied it, then half-denied it, then moderated having done it.

To me, Trump represents everything that is wrong with people.
To me, Clinton represents everything that is wrong with politics.

There is absolutely a practical difference. Maybe even an important difference, but functionally they're both asshats.

Trump is a lying asshole, but we know he's a lying asshole. We might find him standing with a box of matches while this country burns insisting he didn't do it and I'd be like, "Yep, that seems about right."
Clinton may or may not be a lying asshole, it's impossible to know. We might find her standing with a box of matches while this country burns insisting, "Well, what happened was..." and I'd be like, "Again? For real?"

Trump is without merit. Even the few small things he's promised (verbally, or by association) that I could point to as a silver lining have proven to be boondoggles. it's not really a surprise, of course, but one holds out hope. He is a disaster that gets worth by the day, and that is no small feat.

Clinton has merit. I believe in her commitment to healthcare and education and, really, America in general. She's done some good things. But she also pressed really hard for bombing Libya (which caused Benghazi), she pushed for the privatization of Mexico's energy industry (which had dubious benefits for Mexico, but some great benefits for her), her relationship with Wall Street is beyond suspect, and her relationship with the Clinton Foundation (and its extended relationships) is troubling. My opinions are not the result of GOP propaganda. I don't watch TV, the only news I read comes from left-leaning and international media. I judge her purely from things she has demonstrably done (or not done) and not from some 3rd party telling me what she meant. I judge her on the same criteria I'd judge anybody.

Would Clinton be better than Trump? Definitely.
Would Clinton be good? Not so sure.

Here is a common sense, reasoned, cogent, response. Billi, take fucking notes.

I disagree slightly with you, but I can leave it completely alone because of the reasoning.

Billi would say something like "she used an unsecure server" (because right wing propaganda. There really is no such thing as a secure server, THEY CAN ALL BE HACKED!!!!) and when I counter with "ok, so tell me one thing that was in an email sent from the secure server" he'd waffle and talk about the events in Benghazi or some shit.

I'd then turn around and ask him "ok, tell me exactly what she could have done to prevent Benghazi?" and he'd say she's untrustworthy, mumble mumble, Clinton Foundation. Etc etc.

Billi is far better at being Hillary Clinton (non answering direct questions) than she is at being herself.

[neanderthal]

https://www.cnet.com/news/trump-paris-climate-agreement-elon-musk-apple-google-facebook-tech-leaders/

Sigh..., sad to see that Elon Musk's voice meant nothing to Trump.

Sadder for earth's climate of course. I think we're officially the world's biggest baddest evil empire. *Cue the imperial march music*

Did you really think a lifelong shuckster like Trump...

I'm just not even going to finish the thought.

Trump didn't have the class to have his spokesman, Sean Spicer, a Catholic, meet the Pope. Instead his smarmy son in law and daughter did. They with contrived positions in this administration.

And you're telling me to smell the coffee

[thesameguy]

Your point about email servers highlights my frustration with Clinton. I think it's fair to say no server is hack-proof, but there is a substantial difference between infrastructure the government has in place to offer a defense, and the infrastructure even a rich person assembles in their basement. Even if you overlook the difference between a highly secure data center and a private basement and grant both are equally secure, the government infrastructure is tracked and logged in a million different ways so that when someone files a FOIA request or an agency needs to piece together something that happened, there is technology in place to allow that. When you, as a government official, conduct business via a system that operates outside of that infrastructure it reeks of hiding shit and smells strongly of reckless abandon. I have worked in technology my entire life, and there isn't a private company on the planet that would grant an employee leave to conduct any company business from a private server.

It is the equivalent of walking into a 7-Eleven with a backpack and a hoodie. Yeah, you might not steal something, but you sure look like someone who would. Then, when the manager says "Hey man, no backpacks in the 7-Eleven" you look him dead in the eye and say, "I don't have a backpack." How could you ever trust that person again?

Clinton's past is littered with a dozen of those 7-Elevens. At best, it's seriously unnerving.

[Yw-slayer]

Backpacks are banned from 7-11s?

[Cam]

The point is, you are wearing a backpack, and people can clearly see you have a backpack, yet you deny wearing a backpack.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Here is a common sense, reasoned, cogent, response. Billi, take fucking notes.
Yes, I will. Also please note that he actually answered my questions without resorting to personally attacking me. Wonder how he managed that!?!? ;)




Billi would say something like "she used an unsecure server" (because right wing propaganda. There really is no such thing as a secure server, THEY CAN ALL BE HACKED!!!!) and when I counter with "ok, so tell me one thing that was in an email sent from the secure server" he'd waffle and talk about the events in Benghazi or some shit.

I'd then turn around and ask him "ok, tell me exactly what she could have done to prevent Benghazi?" and he'd say she's untrustworthy, mumble mumble, Clinton Foundation. Etc etc.

Billi is far better at being Hillary Clinton (non answering direct questions) than she is at being herself.

Do you really want to cast your vote for me just because of Trump? ;)

Wake up and smell the covfefe, stop laying in bed with eithe the right or left establishment.

TSG is one of the few here who can actually smell the covfefe and not sleep with neither!

[thesameguy]

I don't watch TV, the only news I read comes from left-leaning and international media.

Man, full disclosure. I spent all day today fixing random shit up in a fancy house in Tahoe, and had CNN on all day to keep me company. Great day - tremendous day - to watch CNN. Pulling out of the Paris Accord, Comey's date scheduled, and more on Trump's twitter confraction made for some entertaining news. I did not realize that CNN had devolved into a live squabbling network, but holy shit. Every so often one of the panel people would start saying useful things and then some other panel person would chime in with insults and counterpoints that varied from differing opinions to complete fabrication. My second favorite moment was when some nitwit host asked a "political analyst" to explain why Trump's "I created a million jobs" differed by 100% from the BoL's figure of 500,000. I am so out of touch with this stuff I really don't know if this type of "news" existed pre-Trump, or if these miles-apart factpinions have existed for a while. What a shit show.

My favorite moment was when CNN played a mashup of Trump soundbites "I'm getting us out of the Paris Accord" followed by a "America needs to look after Pittsburg and not Paris" followed by an interview with the mayor of Pittsburg who - in a lot more words - called Trump an asshat. I don't know him, but he seemed really thoughtful and articulate, and I have a lot more respect for a friend's decision to move to Pittsburg now. :lol:

After eight hours of that bullshit, though, I'm good on TV news til 2030 or so.

[neanderthal]

Yes, I will. Also please note that he actually answered my questions without resorting to personally attacking me. Wonder how he managed that!?!? ;)




Do you really want to cast your vote for me just because of Trump? ;)

Wake up and smell the covfefe, stop laying in bed with eithe the right or left establishment.

TSG is one of the few here who can actually smell the covfefe and not sleep with neither!

I asked you the same question over and over for a month(?) while answering your questions, and you kept refusing to answer it because you knew you were wrong. I get to keep calling you names.

[Drachen596]

Man, full disclosure. I spent all day today fixing random shit up in a fancy house in Tahoe, and had CNN on all day to keep me company. Great day - tremendous day - to watch CNN. Pulling out of the Paris Accord, Comey's date scheduled, and more on Trump's twitter confraction made for some entertaining news. I did not realize that CNN had devolved into a live squabbling network, but holy shit. Every so often one of the panel people would start saying useful things and then some other panel person would chime in with insults and counterpoints that varied from differing opinions to complete fabrication. My second favorite moment was when some nitwit host asked a "political analyst" to explain why Trump's "I created a million jobs" differed by 100% from the BoL's figure of 500,000. I am so out of touch with this stuff I really don't know if this type of "news" existed pre-Trump, or if these miles-apart factpinions have existed for a while. What a shit show.

My favorite moment was when CNN played a mashup of Trump soundbites "I'm getting us out of the Paris Accord" followed by a "America needs to look after Pittsburg and not Paris" followed by an interview with the mayor of Pittsburg who - in a lot more words - called Trump an asshat. I don't know him, but he seemed really thoughtful and articulate, and I have a lot more respect for a friend's decision to move to Pittsburg now. :lol:

After eight hours of that bullshit, though, I'm good on TV news til 2030 or so.


Thats basically what ALL the 24 hour news networks have become. Maybe a while ago they had lots of good journalism but anymore they all seem to opinion debate/argument shows.

With ALL the shit going on they like to just focus on one or two stories for hours upon hours. "here we are in our 3rd hour of coverage with our 63rd guest who we're going to ask for their opinion of the current situation. Which direction do you think the toilet paper rolls are set in the White House? Why do you think the other way is better?"

[tigeraid]

It's hard not to feel really, really bummed out by all this. I feel for sane Americans stuck with this wacko.

I know he tends to fray some nerves for some people but Robert Reich did a succinct job of tearing down Trump's unbelievable fountain of lies from that speech yesterday. All the shit about India and China's supposed "free passes," this fucking orange idiot. Developing countries that are doing the best they can with the absolute SHIT they have to work with to drag themselves into the future of clean energy. The job-loss argument has been so thoroughly fucking disproven. It's fucking maddening that the guy knows so little about EVERYTHING ON PLANET EARTH. :mad::mad::mad::mad:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B38Q8fA35r4

[Crazed_Insanity]

I asked you the same question over and over for a month(?) while answering your questions, and you kept refusing to answer it because you knew you were wrong. I get to keep calling you names.

You still haven't answered my questions, the ones that TSG took the liberty to answer, so do I have a free pass to call you names now? Com'on. No need to act like a liberal roofer. :p Anyway, this is what happens when people discuss politics, so I understand, I won't take any insults personally but will try to take in the constructive criticisms. Cheers. :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's hard not to feel really, really bummed out by all this. I feel for sane Americans stuck with this wacko.

I know he tends to fray some nerves for some people but Robert Reich did a succinct job of tearing down Trump's unbelievable fountain of lies from that speech yesterday. All the shit about India and China's supposed "free passes," this fucking orange idiot. Developing countries that are doing the best they can with the absolute SHIT they have to work with to drag themselves into the future of clean energy. The job-loss argument has been so thoroughly fucking disproven. It's fucking maddening that the guy knows so little about EVERYTHING ON PLANET EARTH. :mad::mad::mad::mad:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B38Q8fA35r4

Yeah, I suppose the main reason for Trump was to satisfy his 'base'...

But anyway, Trump can't do anything to stop me from going to renewables by installing solar panels on my roof, right?

Or maybe he's trying to come up with a new deal... basically the same deal, but relocated from Paris to a Trump Tower and rename it the Trump Accord and then he'll sign it? His motto is to make America great again, right? So naturally he's not going to submit to Paris, France... no way man... We are the United States of America Dammit! We lead, and do not follow! Just like the English System, even the English have given it up, but we Americans have to make sure the rest of the world convert to OUR units if they wish to do business with us! We the United States will save the world on our own terms! If all else failed, we have SpaceX who can help humanity immigrate to Mars if necessary...

Anyway, the misery will only last 4 years. It'll pass soon.

[tigeraid]

I have a somewhat related question: In Canada, at least, we have all sorts of tax breaks and perks for supporting/buying/building/switching to renewable energy at a personal, and small-to-medium business level.

Do you guys have programs like this? And will they be drastically affected or disappear entirely because of the White House? Or are they controlled mostly at the State level?

Otherwise, something as simple as "Trump can't stop me from installing solar panels" might be more problematic than you think--or at the very least, cost-prohibitive. If his policies eventually lead to removing ALL of those incentives and crushing anything the supports renewable energy, he'll basically be TURNING his lies into truths--it won't be fiscally worth it.

[thesameguy]

With ALL the shit going on they like to just focus on one or two stories for hours upon hours. "here we are in our 3rd hour of coverage with our 63rd guest who we're going to ask for their opinion of the current situation. Which direction do you think the toilet paper rolls are set in the White House? Why do you think the other way is better?"

Great point! I watched CNN for eight hours, and they essentially only covered those three topics - there may have been other things mentioned that I missed, but the Paris thing was 80% of the airtime. What an embarrassment!


I know he tends to fray some nerves for some people but Robert Reich did a succinct job of tearing down Trump's unbelievable fountain of lies from that speech yesterday. All the shit about India and China's supposed "free passes," this fucking orange idiot. Developing countries that are doing the best they can with the absolute SHIT they have to work with to drag themselves into the future of clean energy.

I completely forgot, but Reich was one of the panel people on an evening show, and I was happy to see him. He seemed very strained, as I imagine any reasonable person would be as they try to explain how the world works to not just children, but children who argue. He made some excellent points about developing countries and India & China's energy needs which - and I don't know what I'm talking about - seemed obvious but that the opposition panel people rejected with insane arguments. Poor guy. He tries hard for us.


It's fucking maddening that the guy knows so little about EVERYTHING ON PLANET EARTH.

Was it Merkel's opposition (I forgot the guy's name) who flat-out said "I don't think Donald Trump understands what the Paris Accord is" - I found that hilarious.

Edit: No, it was Juncker

https://thinkprogress.org/juncker-trump-paris-g7-nato-merkel-macron-42bffac62b01


“Europe’s duty is to say: it’s not like that,” Juncker said. “The Americans can’t just leave the climate protection agreement. Mr. Trump believes that because he doesn’t know the details.”

He didn’t stop there. Chief White House Correspondent for NBC News Hallie Jackson tweeted that Juncker also noted the lengths European leaders had gone to in trying to explain the Paris accord to Trump while in Taormina, Italy, at the G7 summit.

“We tried to explain that to Mr. Trump in Taormina in clear German sentences,” Juncker said. “It seems that our attempt failed, but the law is the law, and it must be obeyed. Not everything which is law and not everything in international agreements is fake news, and we have to comply with it.”

What a dunce.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I have a somewhat related question: In Canada, at least, we have all sorts of tax breaks and perks for supporting/buying/building/switching to renewable energy at a personal, and small-to-medium business level.

Do you guys have programs like this? And will they be drastically affected or disappear entirely because of the White House? Or are they controlled mostly at the State level?

Otherwise, something as simple as "Trump can't stop me from installing solar panels" might be more problematic than you think--or at the very least, cost-prohibitive. If his policies eventually lead to removing ALL of those incentives and crushing anything the supports renewable energy, he'll basically be TURNING his lies into truths--it won't be fiscally worth it.


My solar tax breaks or whatever other EV tax breaks are from tax laws; therefore, enacted by legislators. President or State Governors have no such authority to all of a sudden change existing tax laws. I do believe it is phasing out soon..., but cost of these panels are dropping so even without tax breaks, it wouldn't be that cost prohibitive. With my current system, at least on paper, I can actually save on utility bills every month with the 30% tax breaks, but even without that break, I could make it pretty even for the next 15 years... and then after that, I'd have free energy.

Anyway, still, it probably won't catch on on a massive scale on a consumer level, tax break or not. Ideally we want the utility companies getting into renewables more... But who knows, maybe Trump would anger environmentally conscious Americans enough to decide to take saving earth into their own hands...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Great point! I watched CNN for eight hours, and they essentially only covered those three topics - there may have been other things mentioned that I missed, but the Paris thing was 80% of the airtime. What an embarrassment!

I think some credit needs to be given to live TV..., that is usually nobody watches it for 8 hours!!! :p They're expecting people tuning in and out at random times... so since Paris thing was the big news item of the day, they played that for 80% of the time so that some random viewer will catch that piece of news and then move on... Little did they know that you just refused to move on! :D

Anyway, with internet news, I'm pretty sure CNN live TV will eventually be phased out. If we really want to catch live breaking news, we can even do that on Facebook now! Nobody needs to watch live TV news these days.

[thesameguy]

I have a somewhat related question: In Canada, at least, we have all sorts of tax breaks and perks for supporting/buying/building/switching to renewable energy at a personal, and small-to-medium business level.

Do you guys have programs like this? And will they be drastically affected or disappear entirely because of the White House? Or are they controlled mostly at the State level?

They exist in both places. I suspect the weighting varies by where you are. I imagine that many of the Federal ones will disappear as Trump realigns the EPA and cuts funding for it and similar organizations. It's also possible that if the Feds cut those perks, states might pick them up. From everything I have read, the tax breaks only matter to mom and pop. Businesses - especially big ones - don't benefit all that much from those breaks. These big entities switch to solar, etc. because it's a real ongoing savings. They would continue to implement those technologies regardless of tax breaks.

[Freude am Fahren]

So the worst part of this Paris pullout (aside from you know, the whole world dying thing), is that if the states and/or corporations decide on their own to keep up with the agreements, Trump and his followers will just tout it as a victory for small government.

[thesameguy]

The worst part is the signal it sends to the rest of the world about America's commitment to a global society and loss of influence and leadership in that circle. The direct impact domestically is probably pretty small, but the loss of voice a the table is under no circumstances good, and could be really bad over time. Walking away suggests a loss of opportunity for the American representative to further American ideas and American business. Now there is a group of 190 countries that are discussing how to grow green energy businesses, make money, and save the planet and we have to sit in our corner all alone playing with our rocks.

Assuming we can even walk away. This could just turn into another embarrassing moment for Trump when he finally latches onto the idea that you cannot withdraw from an agreement without at least jumping through some hoops. It could very well turn out that by the time we've done that, he and the notion of the withdrawal are just footnotes in history.

I didn't really realize until today that Trump's entire platform wasn't so much "modern Republican conservatism" as "anti-Obama." He's not furthering some right-wing agenda, he's just dismantling eight years of Obama's work. His original ideas aren't bad, they're non-existent.

[Godson]

Sadly, yes.


I shared an article on a relatively conservative site, The Hill, which called out the people who said the were no riots about Obama from the conservative side.

Buddy from highschool literally said he would run over protestors.

I seriously can't deal with people anymore.

[tigeraid]

I highly, highly doubt leaving the Accords means "oh America is suddenly going to turn all the coal-fired plants back on" and send two million people back down into the mines. Even though I'm sure IN the Cheeto-in-Chief's head that's what he'd like, the industry simply isn't there anymore, and 90% of your damn country has moved the fuck on and started working on solar farms and windmills.

But as someone outside looking in, it doesn't feel like "we're leaving you behind," it kinda feels like "the biggest economy in the world is now actively fighting against the rest of us trying to save the planet." In however large or small ways we're doing it. That old commercial with the crying Indian? America is now the guy throwing the trash on the ground, and the rest of the free world is the crying Indian!

It's just a massive kick in the face, after eight years of seeing all the progress Obama (and hell, even SOME by Bush) made.

[thesameguy]

Yup, on all accounts. Moreover, the coal industry employs about nobody. Big coal is all automation. The good jobs are STEM jobs - researching, designing, and building wind turbines, solar plants, etc. Admittedly, there is also big STEM employment for people who design the coal mining automation, but the point is that there aren't mountains of blue collar coal workers anymore. You could be building gigantic robot dump trucks or you could be building gigantic wind turbines, but ain't nobody "mining coal." The best thing for Americans would be becoming the number one producer of high quality wind turbines. "Wind turbine factory worker" sounds like an amazing blue collar job... a UAW job for the 21st century.

Additionally, nobody wants a coal mine in their back yard. Nobody wants byproduct from coal mines or fossil fuel power production in their back yard. Nobody wants to work in a coal mine. Preserving the coal industry is like subsidizing a strip club. Nobody wants to look at it or the byproducts that come with it. And, yeah, the pay is there but would you rather be building solar plants or taking your clothes off for money?

Being the laughing stock of the first world is bad enough, but what I can't figure out is whether Trump is doing the misleading or being mislead himself. The former is scary enough, but the latter is terrifying. Because, like, what evil genius is pulling his strings??? At least with G dub, we knew who the puppetmasters were.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I suspect Peter Thiel... The ultimate contrarian... If everyone's not jumping off a cliff, maybe we should try jumping off?

Plus, I'm sure there are also plenty of non-renewable lobbyists around him...

Tesla CEO quit his council, but GM CEO stayed on. That probably tells us something...

Anyway, who really knows what he's thinking. If his own daughter couldn't sway him, he must have his good reasons.

[thesameguy]

Musk's exit was mostly symbolic, although he did comment he signed up to help steer the ship, but threw in the towel when it became clear he could not. I don't disrespect GM for sticking around - I don't think being on the advisory panel is necessarily being complicit. Just like being part of the Paris Accord is the only way to help steer the Paris Accord, being part of the council is the only way to help steer the council. If you quit, you no longer have any input. I think we are reaching or have reached a turning point where environmental concerns are a drive and not a drag for sales and technology, so I think that GM has a good incentive to push higher standards. I am sure GM wants to create an protective environment where it's easier to lock out competitors... Can you imagine if we relaxed environmental or crash standards and a flood of cheap cars showed up? GM would be in bad shape. Hopefully their presence on the council continues to drive these higher standards even in the face of Mr. Dildo's dgaf.

[Tom Servo]

Just an aside, if people replaced two car trips a week with transit/biking/walking, we'd fulfill our commitment to the Paris climate agreement with or without Trump's help.

[neanderthal]

You still haven't answered my questions, the ones that TSG took the liberty to answer, so do I have a free pass to call you names now? Com'on. No need to act like a liberal roofer. :p Anyway, this is what happens when people discuss politics, so I understand, I won't take any insults personally but will try to take in the constructive criticisms. Cheers. :)

Be grateful that i'm just flat out not answering (i have an answer, i'm just giving you a taste of your own medicine!) and not introducing strawmen arguments and red herrings like you do. I have many tangents I could introduce, an army of strawmen, and several universities' (i figure a university is bigger than a typical school, and a group of fish is generally called a school) worth of red herrings, but i'm being civil; a cunt, but civil.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, I appreciate you being civil. But I was really hoping for a fact based discussion as you advertised. When your opposition sucks, Must you resort to their lower levels... Facts be damned, it's more important that the opposition gets to taste their own medicine first?

When your done administering you medication to me, I'd appreciate your fact based response to my earlier questions. But of course you don't have to if you really don't want to. Thanks and have a nice weekend! :)

[Kchrpm]

Just an aside, if people replaced two car trips a week with transit/biking/walking, we'd fulfill our commitment to the Paris climate agreement with or without Trump's help.

I'm going to walk to Hooters for lunch!

[Tom Servo]

I'm going to walk to Hooters for lunch!

Hell yeah! Then you can have extra wings since you're burning some of 'em off on the trip!

That's actually almost exactly what I'm about to do, head out to lunch at a place about 3 miles away and walk it with the wife. Figure that way I don't have to behave myself *quite* as much.

[Tom Servo]

Somewhat interesting article I found in the LA Times this morning about one of the more vocal/known Trump supporters here in Southern California.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-arthur-schaper-trump-conservative-20170603-htmlstory.html

Few takeaways I got.
1) I think it's interesting how many people claim that left protestors are unemployed people being paid by George Soros, but don't seem to have a problem with this guy being paid by groups like MassResistance.
2) Interesting that Facebook Live appears to be a big driver of this. I'd imagine that he's being paid more to get that video footage that can then be spread across sites like Infowars and Breitbart rather than any immediate, local effect he might have.
3) I'm surprised to hear that Claremont has a big anti-immigrant group - that's a pretty affluent college town (there are five major colleges, Pomona, Pitzer, Harvey Mudd, Claremont McKenna, and Scripps that are collectively known as a Claremont Colleges) and I'd imagine the vast majority of immigrants there work in the restaurants that the residents frequent but aren't competing on jobs.
4) I have to figure out why I'm okay with people disrupting an Issa town hall but not a Waters one. That's not a good character trait for me. I figure it's similar to people who think it's stifling this guy's free speech when he's removed from a meeting but are okay with people being dragged out of Trump rallies.

[thesameguy]

Re: Claremont

Really? That doesn't surprise me at all about Claremont... despite being a college town it's packed with protectionist old people afraid of catching something from Upland or Ontario. I imagine Davis would be the same way if its neighbor was South Sacramento instead of West Sacramento.

[Tom Servo]

I mean, I guess I didn't spend a *lot* of time there, but that's definitely never been the vibe I got from the place. My sister went to Pomona college and now lives in Upland, so we often meet up in Claremont. Then again, I mostly just end up talking with her, her friends, and her husband's family, so I might be a little sheltered.

[thesameguy]

My girl went to Cal Poly and spent a lot of time in Claremont, so we visit fairly often. It has a cool college town vibe, but the "get off my lawn" element is undeniable. ;)

[Tom Servo]

My sister teaches at Cal Poly. I think maybe the crowd she hangs with has kept me away from that vibe.

[neanderthal]

Somewhat interesting article I found in the LA Times this morning about one of the more vocal/known Trump supporters here in Southern California.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-arthur-schaper-trump-conservative-20170603-htmlstory.html

Few takeaways I got.
1) I think it's interesting how many people claim that left protestors are unemployed people being paid by George Soros, but don't seem to have a problem with this guy being paid by groups like MassResistance.
2) Interesting that Facebook Live appears to be a big driver of this. I'd imagine that he's being paid more to get that video footage that can then be spread across sites like Infowars and Breitbart rather than any immediate, local effect he might have.
3) I'm surprised to hear that Claremont has a big anti-immigrant group - that's a pretty affluent college town (there are five major colleges, Pomona, Pitzer, Harvey Mudd, Claremont McKenna, and Scripps that are collectively known as a Claremont Colleges) and I'd imagine the vast majority of immigrants there work in the restaurants that the residents frequent but aren't competing on jobs.
4) I have to figure out why I'm okay with people disrupting an Issa town hall but not a Waters one. That's not a good character trait for me. I figure it's similar to people who think it's stifling this guy's free speech when he's removed from a meeting but are okay with people being dragged out of Trump rallies.

The last part.

Because Maxine Waters isn't being a douche in Washington.

Issa was during Obama's term; his investigations yielded nothing, the witch hunt yielded nothing, his chairmanship of whatever partisan group it was yielded nothing and it wasted taxpayers time.

Same reason you don't feel bad if a bad co worker gets let go but you get a bit put upon when a good one does.

[neanderthal]

Yes, I appreciate you being civil. But I was really hoping for a fact based discussion as you advertised. When your opposition sucks, Must you resort to their lower levels... Facts be damned, it's more important that the opposition gets to taste their own medicine first?

When your done administering you medication to me, I'd appreciate your fact based response to my earlier questions. But of course you don't have to if you really don't want to. Thanks and have a nice weekend! :)

Are you complaining about the behaviour you were exhibiting when I was doing the asking? Obviously my actions are working.

You literally didn't answer my question for a month. Maybe it was three weeks and ten days. Maybe only two fortnights and some. Maybe 30 spins of the earth. Maybe one twelveth of the year. It was a long ass time. Sometimes several times in one day! You. refused. to. answer. So now it's your turn.


Yes, i'm not one of those turn the other cheek and move on liberals; i'm one of those punch the fuck back liberals. So you get a taste of your own fucking medicine until I damn well feel like you've learned your lesson. Maybe that might steer you into civil discourse the next time you get asked a question.

[neanderthal]

Re: Claremont

Really? That doesn't surprise me at all about Claremont... despite being a college town it's packed with protectionist old people afraid of catching something from Upland or Ontario. I imagine Davis would be the same way if its neighbor was South Sacramento instead of West Sacramento.

This. Its a very nice area, but a bit cloistered from the outside world, like a throwback to the fifties or something. Which is weird.

One of my teamates on my rugby team bought a house there. I like to drive through neighbourhoods and the few times i've been there and done that, people have been looking at me. Like staring.


I'm not bumping loud music. Driving a hooptie. Drawing attention.

And it's all manicured lawns and prim and proper. Nice, but not quite for me.

[thesameguy]

This is amongst the things that makes me not like Clinton:


At the Recode conference, she said she had inherited nothing from a "bankrupt" Democratic Party led by Obama for eight years.

...

Longtime aides and advisers say she will not run for public office again, and that she feels liberated to finally speak her mind. They anticipate that Clinton will keep discussing the election, particularly to promote her upcoming book which is expected to be published this fall.

"I didn't speak the truth when I was running for office, but now that I'm not going to I feel okay slamming the organization that supported me so I can sell more books."

This isn't a suggestion she is doing no good now, but it illustrates my opinion that the good she does happens when her interests and the public's interest happens to align.

Also, a woman who nearly won the presidency of the United States should, in my opinion, display some real decorum going forward, and offer inspiration to other people rather complaining about Obama while hocking a book about how she was robbed. She really, truly disgusts me.

[Crazed_Insanity]

More bankrupt the better. Hopefully we can start fresh on the next election cycle, assuming Trump won't destroy the world 1st.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Are you complaining about the behaviour you were exhibiting when I was doing the asking?

Anyway, hopefully in 3 or 4 months time, you can also answer my questions like I answered yours? ;)

[neanderthal]

So before I left to go to Lake Tahoe yesterday I was filling up my bike and there was an old dude filling up his Saab at the next pump and an Indian/ Pakistani taxi driver at the pump opposite him. As he finished the old man admonishes me to "be careful because this dude here wants to blow us up. Watch him like a hawk" or some other nonsense. I respond that "i'm sorry, I can't hear you, i have ear plugs in" in order to hear him. He repeats it.

Then I say "i don't think he's going to do any such thing. He's going to go about his job and go home to his wife and kids tonight. You're the one who is a danger here. I'm more afraid of you than I am of him." He drove off and gave me the "you're number 1" gesture.

I wish i'd engaged him in a more meaningful conversation and convinced him to turn off Faux News.

This is the world we live in. Bigots feel emboldened. Thank you everyone who didn't vote for Hillary.

[MR2 Fan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBhlF21UQAAAMJH.jpg:large

[Tom Servo]

People, the lawyers and the court can call it whatever they want, but I am calling it what we need and what it is, a TRAVEL BAN!

The Justice Department lawyers must just sit around all day thinking "For fuck's sake, shut the fuck up!" If they made any ground at all in the court in arguing that this is not, in fact, an illegal travel ban, it all just got undone this morning.

[Sad, little man]

Dude is having a Twitter meltdown today, holy shit. Usually he calms down by 8:00 or so. Someone must have taken his binky away.

[21Kid]

I give up too. But then my inner pedant sees something he posts and can't let it fo.
If you block him, you won't see what he posts. ;)

I tried just ignoring him for a while too. But, I kept having that same problem. That's why I eventually had to block him completely. It's been a lifesaver, for my sanity.

[neanderthal]

If you block him, you won't see what he posts. ;)

I tried just ignoring him for a while too. But, I kept having that same problem. That's why I eventually had to block him completely. It's been a lifesaver, for my sanity.

I'm clearly not capable of just ignoring him. I may go this route. My sanity is too far gone but i may save a scrap of it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

"Just do it!" -Nike


I wish i'd engaged him in a more meaningful conversation and convinced him to turn off Faux News.
Absolutely what you should've done, but I think it's understandable that you probably just want to punch him in the face just like you want to kick my balls in. I'm not even a genuine Trump supporter, just indirectly supported him by not voting Hillary..., but of course to you, me and him and roofer are probably all the same. Just as to that bigot, all dark skin folks are terrorists.


This is the world we live in. Bigots feel emboldened. Thank you everyone who didn't vote for Hillary.
Now, to be fair, I'm pretty sure this world is NOT shaped by non-Hillary supporters... nor will this world be a better place by giving Hillary executive powers.

Positively engaging your opposition definitely will be more meaningful than blowing them up or building a wall or set up a travel ban or just to click something to block them. But of course people's sanity is also at risk here. There shouldn't be too much judgement placed on people's actions. All each one of us can do is to try to positively influence folks around us or we can just be fearful and just shield to protect ourselves from these hopeless bad guys. Whatever actions we take, there'll be consequences. No solution's perfect in this imperfect world. Again, this imperfect world wasn't shaped by non-Hillary supporters.

I do believe it's both the Republican and Democratic Administrations' meddling of foreign nations which resulted in more of these terrorists. Our government abroad has became the evil empire trying to shape the world the way the 'establishment' wanted..., but things are backfiring severely. We are residents on the Death Star, wondering why these annoying rebels are trying to destroy us all the time...

[thesameguy]

So before I left to go to Lake Tahoe yesterday I was filling up my bike and there was an old dude filling up his Saab at the next pump and an Indian/ Pakistani taxi driver at the pump opposite him. As he finished the old man admonishes me to "be careful because this dude here wants to blow us up. Watch him like a hawk" or some other nonsense. I respond that "i'm sorry, I can't hear you, i have ear plugs in" in order to hear him. He repeats it.

Then I say "i don't think he's going to do any such thing. He's going to go about his job and go home to his wife and kids tonight. You're the one who is a danger here. I'm more afraid of you than I am of him." He drove off and gave me the "you're number 1" gesture.

I wish i'd engaged him in a more meaningful conversation and convinced him to turn off Faux News.

This is the world we live in. Bigots feel emboldened. Thank you everyone who didn't vote for Hillary.

That's absolutely crazy, but I'm not surprised.

But, Trump's win is a result of these feelings not the cause. Make no mistake about it. People are understandably tired of feeling afraid and they don't know how to direct those emotions into something productive, so they spread their fear seeking comfort in groups. This is a completely normal human reaction. It's not right, and it's not useful, but don't confuse the symptom (an idiot president) with the cause (fear). Humanity is not weighted towards introspection and reflection, it's weighted towards reaction and aggression. The majority of people have always been ill-equipped to deal with full breadth and depth of the world but historically the world was very far away and ignorance was, literally, bliss. These days the world is in your living room, in your office, and on your phone. All the time. It's an immense pressure and most people can't cope. I think I'm a reasonably bright person and I know I can't.

I think one of Hillary's (and maybe the DNC in general's) greatest missteps was confusing rational but misdirected fear with stupidity. If you want to be a dick about things you could probably use those terms interchangeably. And, I guess Hillary did. She was a dick to a lot of people. Rather than express sympathy for the problems many Americans face, rather than extend a helping hand to people who are afraid, she coined a phrase and drove a significant part of this country away. In that regard, she is stupid just like "they" are stupid - we are broadly failing to recognize the cause of the fear and address that, so instead we attack the symptoms of each others' fear. The attacks become very personal, very effective, and very divisive. We are trampling all over each other trying to get out of the bus instead of letting someone sit down and steer the motherfucker.

Trump didn't create the bus, he just profited from it. Until people feel secure in their job, their finances, their homes, and their country they are going to be driven by the fear of loss or harm. Some people handle that better than others, some people act out in different ways. It's not great, but it's never going to change. Driving a wedge between these groups in some Trump (AND HILLARY) esque us vs. them agenda is not productive. It won't fix anything. Ever. The way we improve our lot is by taking that fear away, not by telling people their fear is stupid.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://twitter.com/RealPressSecBot

^A Twitter bot that puts Trumps tweets into the form of Official White House Releases^
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBj-OtoU0AE9Y38.jpg:large

[Freude am Fahren]

Also,
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/lrijmwt6iuzzlrfocx3y.jpg

[Tom Servo]

Yep, I started following that so I can see all the stupid shit he says without contributing to his follower numbers.

[21Kid]

I'm clearly not capable of just ignoring him. I may go this route. My sanity is too far gone but i may save a scrap of it.
You can always "View Post" if you want to. I did it for quite a while after I ignored him. Thinking that it could possibly be a relevant post. But, they almost never are. I only see them when someone quotes him now, and every time I can feel myself getting angry. :smh:

[neanderthal]

You can always "View Post" if you want to. I did it for quite a while after I ignored him. Thinking that it could possibly be a relevant post. But, they almost never are. I only see them when someone quotes him now, and every time I can feel myself getting angry. :smh:

I did it.

After my last post. I could feel the sanity seeping back into me.

[speedpimp]

Dude is having a Twitter meltdown today, holy shit. Usually he calms down by 8:00 or so. Someone must have taken his binky away.

Not enough fefe in his Covfefe.

[21Kid]

'bout time Mo. :finger:

[Freude am Fahren]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBZ-5DtVoAAkbnn.jpg:large

[Tom Servo]

Trump’s Attack on the Mayor of London May Be the Worst Tweet of His Presidency (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/06/trumps-attack-on-the-mayor-of-london-may-be-worst-tweet-yet.html)

[drew]

ffs.


He will stop at nothing to stay in the headlines. 100% intentional and by design.


Comey testifies on Thursday, so he's ramping up his shit machine. Too bad it's at the actual cost of relations with folks we should have NO problem with.


What a fucktard.

[Leon]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/93382262/birdflipping-welcome-for-us-secretary-of-state-rex-tillerson-in-new-zealand



The weather was awful and the mood of the locals wasn't much better when US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson​ arrived in Wellington.

US media travelling with Tillerson were surprised by the number of people flipping the bird at Tillerson as his motorcade sped through town.

New York Times correspondent Gardiner Harris said he had been in a lot of motorcades but even he was taken back by the negative reaction.


I live in Wellington, NZ. Just saying.

Trump approval % in NZ (as judged by the question "in the US election how many of you would have voted for Trump?") is 15%.

We're a liberal bunch here (on average - there are still howling bigots, and other forms of special characters).

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump’s Attack on the Mayor of London May Be the Worst Tweet of His Presidency (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/06/trumps-attack-on-the-mayor-of-london-may-be-worst-tweet-yet.html)

It's unfortunate people just cannot ignore or block Trump's tweets. For their sanity, people should do it. The media should also be respectful enough to stop reporting Trump's tweets as news worthy.

Honestly, anyone really that surprised and shocked by Trump's tweet? Was that tweet really so out of character? Can that tweet be used to impeach him?

I hope thanks to Hillary and Donald, in the near future, government officials really should be restricted from using private servers/social media accounts to conduct their business. Too much damages have been done... yep, we need new laws strictly spelling out that all public officials need to use public official accounts to conduct public official business. Otherwise, YOU'RE FIRED! This cannot go on...

When world leaders are caught in internet flames wars..., not sure to laugh or cry...

[Kchrpm]

We should just ignore the things our president says, because they aren't important and everyone else is ignoring them too...

Makes total sense.

It's not ok to ignore the President of the United States of America, because today's tweet is tomorrow's policy is next week's binding law. What he says in all forums should be taken into account and reported on BEFORE it is written into law, not after!

No offense to you, or anyone else here, but ignoring anyone here doesn't really mean shit, we're not going to take something we post and then make it something legally binding and nationally enforced.

[Tom Servo]

This seems apropos given a suggestion to ignore Trump's tweets:


[Sean] Spicer says Trump's tweets are "considered official statements of the President of the United States"

https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/872163381397995520

[Crazed_Insanity]

Point is, we all know what Donald Trump is like.

No need to take his personal tweets so seriously.

They are BS tweets before... and they are BS tweets now even as the POTUS. No need to make them more official than necessary.

If Trump Administration is going to enact something, do it in an official legal manner. Not thru tweets. Yes, his tweets can give us insight to what he's thinking about..., but it's not like he is really all that powerful that he can ALWAYS end up doing whatever he wants without any oppositions. We still have check and balance in place.

Like I said, I really think new laws need to be in place to prevent future politicians from using personal anything... especially on social media. We don't really need to know what the covfefuck our president is thinking about during the wee hours in the morning thru twitter. We also don't need the media to over analyze to death what covfefe really means. Taking them in so seriously is only detrimental to your own health.

The scariest part of all this is not emboldening of bigots, but the emboldening of Donald Trump and his covfefucking behavior. He is enjoying every bit of it.

[Jason]

This seems apropos given a suggestion to ignore Trump's tweets:



https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/872163381397995520

Every single one of his tweets, including misspellings, goes into public record. It's quite something. :lol:

[sandydandy]

In some lighter news...there was a "terrorist attack" in Toronto over the weekend. A woman in a niqab walked into a department store and swung a golf club at a store supervisor. Then she pulled out a knife and tried to stab him. She was tackled and subdued, and authorities called. Apparently she was wearing ISIS symbols, and pledged allegiance to their leader, while uttering a bunch of mean words to people.

That passes for a terrorist attack around here.

[MR2 Fan]

Most of the attacks other than the Manchester one have seemed very amateurish. Is it scary/annoying? yes, but it seems quite disorganized overall.

[sandydandy]

I look at this as a Dylan Roof situation, but without the casualties, (thankfully).

[Drachen596]

Considering they fully accept they will be caught or killed the groups wont want the high ups doing it. Just the expendable fodder who fall for the glory of being a martyr for Allah.

[Tom Servo]

Comey's opening remarks tomorrow: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/os-jcomey-060817.pdf

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think I'm beginning to like Comey more and more, for bringing down both Hillary and Donald! Fingers crossed...

[Kchrpm]

I'm looking forward to the combination of spin and denial that will result, followed by Trump blowing it all up with a Rick James-style confession on Twitter.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

[21Kid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFdsl29s_Q

:eek:

[thesameguy]

I'm looking forward to the combination of spin and denial that will result, followed by Trump blowing it all up with a Rick James-style confession on Twitter.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

While reading various sites last night I had the sudden wondering if, after all these years, being elected president is the thing that send Trump to jail. It's incredibly far-fetched, but he crashed a party without an invite, drank all the punch, pissed on the furniture, and called everyone names. When you do stuff like that people will go to great lengths to sink your ship and even genuinely good people may have trouble rising above the tide. A shady shitbag like Trump is going to have a really hard time. While sad and scary because, you know, he's the president of our country, it's also a little funny and will probably get funnier as his flailing becomes more dramatic. I'm a pretty big believer in the inertia of organizations, that it's very difficult for one person to truly affect the course, and there is no organization bigger than our damned government. He can rock the boat, and he can piss some people off, but I don't believe that at the end of the day he's not going to have a lasting affect on anything. I may be wrong, but it allows me to find mirth in Trump's self-wrought situation.

[Crazed_Insanity]

My English really sucks, had to look up the word mirth... Anyway, right on TSG! ;)

[neanderthal]

While reading various sites last night I had the sudden wondering if, after all these years, being elected president is the thing that send Trump to jail. It's incredibly far-fetched, but he crashed a party without an invite, drank all the punch, pissed on the furniture, and called everyone names. When you do stuff like that people will go to great lengths to sink your ship and even genuinely good people may have trouble rising above the tide. A shady shitbag like Trump is going to have a really hard time. While sad and scary because, you know, he's the president of our country, it's also a little funny and will probably get funnier as his flailing becomes more dramatic. I'm a pretty big believer in the inertia of organizations, that it's very difficult for one person to truly affect the course, and there is no organization bigger than our damned government. He can rock the boat, and he can piss some people off, but I don't believe that at the end of the day he's not going to have a lasting affect on anything. I may be wrong, but it allows me to find mirth in Trump's self-wrought situation.

The actions of Republicans indicate that they favor party over country so while i hope Trump goes down I don't see much action from Republicans to make it happen. And they control the chamber.

He should've been impeached for emoluments on day 1.

[G'day Mate]

C'mon Trump, tweet something!!

[21Kid]

Trump's aides are, however, doing what they can to keep Trump busy, and away from his Twitter account, one Republican close to the White House said. :|

A White House official said Trump won't be watching the whole hearing -- calling that a "good thing" -- but he is expected to monitor developments, popping into the White House dining room where several of his aides and his personal attorney on the Russia investigation Marc Kasowitz will be monitoring the hearing.
"I don't think he'll be glued to the TV," the official said, adding the expectation is that the President will not tweet about the hearing -- but no one can be sure.

[Tom Servo]

Dude, Trump bails on tweeting, on his speech, and Comey doesn't say "hookers". What a mess.

[Tom Servo]

I'm running behind...is McCain okay?

[Jason]

Well, I mean, he's old. So... no?

[Tom Servo]

He seriously seemed like he either was on something or having a serious medical condition. Like, barely coherent.

[drew]

Glad to see our president is still so pressed for time that he can take pause to watch TV. Because he's on it.

[Cam]

He seriously seemed like he either was on something or having a serious medical condition. Like, barely coherent.
I have a friend who is a biological scientist. Back when McCain was running for prez, he was concerned about McCain, stating that the majority of people at his age develop dementia and other neurological problems.

[G'day Mate]

You mean the age that Donald Trump will be in one year?

[Leon]

His mental age is only 4 though.

[21Kid]

Awwww. C'mon now... 4 year olds are way more honest than that. Probably more like 12.

[21Kid]

:twitch:

Despite so many false statements and lies, total and complete vindication…and WOW, Comey is a leaker!
This idiot is delusional. Does he live in a different reality all together?

[novicius]

An idiot protected by a Congress that refuses to investigate (much less impeach) him.

[FaultyMario]

Say hello to president Ryan for me.

[Tom Servo]

Trump and my conservative friends had different goalposts than I think a lot of liberals did. Their goalpost was "did he do something illegal/impeachable". My goalpost was "did he do something unethical/fire Comey to try to suppress an investigation".

[thesameguy]

My goalpost was a fun show. Because he 99.9% wasn't going to get impeached, and in the .1% he did we'd be no better off with Pence in charge. We The People need to bear down and accept we've got 3.6 more years of this. Fighting this is pointless. The best option is to fall in line and try to steer from behind. There is nothing new happening here, it's just a different flavor of the same lie/cheat/steal that we've had for decades. We did this to us with all the blaming, name-calling, and black-or-white arguments we've substituted for intelligent political discourse. Trump is the piper.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump and my conservative friends had different goalposts than I think a lot of liberals did. Their goalpost was "did he do something illegal/impeachable". My goalpost was "did he do something unethical/fire Comey to try to suppress an investigation".

That's politics for ya... back then, the 2 slightly different goal posts were, 'did the president have sex with Monica Lewinsky?' and 'did the prez do something illegal/impeachable?' Depends on the party of the president and your political preference, you may jump from post to post...

But anyway, Trump is true to his word somewhat..., let the swamp draining begin!!! Even if nothing got drained, at least this is still entertaining to watch! ;)

BTW, recently ran across this 2 year old ted talk. Only has 300k views. It really needs to go viral. It shows how lousy our democracy is, just like Hong Kong China. No offense YW... for sharing the same boat with ya...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE

[Leon]

:twitch:

This idiot is delusional. Does he live in a different reality all together?

Ding ding ding.

Exactly correct.

His reality is "rich man who specialises in not suffering consequences for his actions". A reality that I am astonished to see has continued.

[21Kid]

70 years and counting... :smh: