Politics

[Tom Servo]

I might recommend you read up on why people saying things like "Not all men" is obnoxious at best, as that kinda appears to be what you're doing. You're minimizing something you acknowledge exists by continually saying "Yeah, but that's not all of it." You're simultaneously saying that there's a problem, but it's really not that bad because there are other potential problems.

[FaultyMario]

That article doesn't ask or answer the obvious question: WHY is the military spending our tax dollars on Viagra?

Because a healthy sex life for individuals is healthy for society at large.
Now, repeat that to include the non-white, non-men, non-old.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I might recommend you read up on why people saying things like "Not all men" is obnoxious at best, as that kinda appears to be what you're doing. You're minimizing something you acknowledge exists by continually saying "Yeah, but that's not all of it." You're simultaneously saying that there's a problem, but it's really not that bad because there are other potential problems.

Racism exists. This is an indisputable fact or undeniable reality.

Cops shooting people dead unnecessarily... or simply other forms of unnecessary roughness... This is also a problem.

They are both bad..., I've never stated that racism isn't so bad, it's just that I think the other problem is worse and is more easily fixable.

BLM movement sort of masked the real issue of police excessive force problem. It's kinda ironic that it took a 'squeaky clean white woman' for people to realize Twin Cities police is kinda fucked up. There are no more excuses, no black men to blame. They need to fix themselves!

Here's an example of how racist twin cities police confused dogs as black men:
https://www.minnpost.com/glean/2017/07/body-cam-video-police-officer-who-shot-dogs-released
(Warning, if you're a dog lover, don't watch the fucking video.)

So I really believe the problem is bigger than racism. Stirring up racial tensions won't really help the excessive force issue... and it'll only end up making the police more nervous...

One thing I'd give to Neanderthal though... that it's obvious now that white life is more important than black lives and dog lives. I really thought the dog incident might cause a more significant backlash, but nope... it took this white woman to roll the head of the police chief.

[thesameguy]

Solid points all around. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to weight racism vs. excessive force, but you're right that one of those can be addressed with a structure and the other cannot be managed in any way. At the end of the day, I suppose you can be as racist, misogynist, prejudiced, and bigoted as you want to so long as I can't tell from your behavior. Keep that shit quiet, don't tell anyone, yes, you're all alone with your insane ideas and you should be ashamed of them. Act like a professional, treat people with respect (even if you don't respect them), be fair and impartial. As long as you do that, hate me for whatever reason as much as you want. Do your job, do it right. How you feel is up to you.

[Freude am Fahren]

http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unload-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon

[thesameguy]

Gold.

[FaultyMario]

Not to say, but if you only knew
How easy it would be to show me how you feel
More than gold.

[thesameguy]

I have mostly looked onto the Trump administration as curiously sad. I think this may be the first thing that has legitimately pissed me off.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-leaps-into-culture-wars-on-gay-rights/ar-AAoWnXG?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

This is a not a difference of opinion, or nepotism over good sense, or putting business over social good, this is targeting a group of people and acting against their best interest for absolutely nobody's gain.

[FaultyMario]

The Trump administration abruptly absurdly waded into the culture wars over gay rights this week

Fixed

[Kchrpm]

I have mostly looked onto the Trump administration as curiously sad. I think this may be the first thing that has legitimately pissed me off.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-leaps-into-culture-wars-on-gay-rights/ar-AAoWnXG?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

This is a not a difference of opinion, or nepotism over good sense, or putting business over social good, this is targeting a group of people and acting against their best interest for absolutely nobody's gain.

That's where you're wrong. It's for his gain. The most important gain there is. He's losing the support of every sane person in this country by his inability to get anything reasonable done, so now he just has to focus on the unreasonable!

[neanderthal]

Racism exists. This is an indisputable fact or undeniable reality.

Cops shooting people dead unnecessarily... or simply other forms of unnecessary roughness... This is also a problem.

They are both bad..., I've never stated that racism isn't so bad, it's just that I think the other problem is worse and is more easily fixable.

BLM movement sort of masked the real issue of police excessive force problem. It's kinda ironic that it took a 'squeaky clean white woman' for people to realize Twin Cities police is kinda fucked up. There are no more excuses, no black men to blame. They need to fix themselves!

Here's an example of how racist twin cities police confused dogs as black men:
https://www.minnpost.com/glean/2017/07/body-cam-video-police-officer-who-shot-dogs-released
(Warning, if you're a dog lover, don't watch the fucking video.)

So I really believe the problem is bigger than racism. Stirring up racial tensions won't really help the excessive force issue... and it'll only end up making the police more nervous...

One thing I'd give to Neanderthal though... that it's obvious now that white life is more important than black lives and dog lives. I really thought the dog incident might cause a more significant backlash, but nope... it took this white woman to roll the head of the police chief.

What a stunningly blind response.

You're saying that the death of this lady has shined a light on excessive police use if force in Minneapolis? That's great! Because something can be done about that.

Except, it's not just a Minneapolis problem. (https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/) There goes your theory.

[neanderthal]

Solid points all around. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to weight racism vs. excessive force, but you're right that one of those can be addressed with a structure and the other cannot be managed in any way. At the end of the day, I suppose you can be as racist, misogynist, prejudiced, and bigoted as you want to so long as I can't tell from your behavior. Keep that shit quiet, don't tell anyone, yes, you're all alone with your insane ideas and you should be ashamed of them. Act like a professional, treat people with respect (even if you don't respect them), be fair and impartial. As long as you do that, hate me for whatever reason as much as you want. Do your job, do it right. How you feel is up to you.

But that's not how it works. Cops cover for each other and when they don't (<--- not all cops), the union doesn't do shit, and the DA won't press charges and when they do because they have to, a stone cold killer gets found not guilty by a jury that's prejudiced to think the cops are always innocent.

Micheal Slager's jury deadlocked. Deadlocked. Even with video clearly showing him shooting an unarmed man. Shooting him in the back. Shooting him multiple times. Not under threat of violence or any type of self defense.
And the first thing his dept tried to say was it was self defense. They got together and concocted a story and were found out.

So, just because someone is professional, it doesn't mean anything when society at large thinks the pathology of blacks is criminality and cops is innocence.

But I still want that fucker to act professional.

[neanderthal]

That's where you're wrong. It's for his gain. The most important gain there is. He's losing the support of every sane person in this country by his inability to get anything reasonable done, so now he just has to focus on the unreasonable!

I'm pretty sure war with North Korea ids inevitable. Trump does NOT want us looking at his finances. And he's going to shore up what little support he has just as you've said.

[thesameguy]

But that's not how it works. Cops cover for each other and when they don't (<--- not all cops), the union doesn't do shit, and the DA won't press charges and when they do because they have to, a stone cold killer gets found not guilty by a jury that's prejudiced to think the cops are always innocent.


Fair enough. What would your approach be?

[neanderthal]

Fair enough. What would your approach be?

I don't have an answer. See underlined below.

But certainly, start by requiring deescalation. Non lethal weapons. Bodycams. Proper investigations of police shootings, rather than the blue line circling around the wagons. Charging cops who shoot first. Put their fucking pensions on the line.

But, then again, juries will let em go free. Welcome to AmeriKKKa.

[thesameguy]

That's where you're wrong. It's for his gain. The most important gain there is. He's losing the support of every sane person in this country by his inability to get anything reasonable done, so now he just has to focus on the unreasonable!

The doubly sad bit about that concept is that if it's true (by intention, rather than by accident), while reaffirming his intentions for nutjob supporters, he just continues to galvanize a whole different group against him. Zero sum game. Which of course completely fits in with his poorly thought out behavior.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So our only option is to kill all those cops then. Problem solved. We all can just rely on our own guns.

[thesameguy]

I don't have an answer. See underlined below.

Welcome to AmeriKKKa.

Sorry man, I'm just not that much of a cynic. I'm not going to live in that universe with you.

[neanderthal]

The USA is an inherently racist country. You have to remember that the reconstitution amendments in the constitution specifically declare the full rights of a human being to blacks. That's a shameful thing that they had to enshrine it into the constitution. Don't get me wrong, it's a good thing. But, the inherent racism cut so deep they had to guarantee those rights in the law of the land.

And, even today, we still have efforts to disenfranchise voters. But, that's us getting sidetracked.

[neanderthal]

Sorry man, I'm just not that much of a cynic. I'm not going to live in that universe with you.

You have the luxury of being a cynic in this arena. I don't.

[FaultyMario]

So, McCain voted 'no' on skinny repeal.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFzUpEoUIAEW_ZG.jpg


In a last-minute rescue bid, Vice President Pence — there to be the tie-breaking vote if needed — stood at McCain’s desk for 21 minutes cajoling the senator to no avail.

McCain and Pence then walked to the Republican cloak room to confer in private and later to the lobby off the Senate chamber. When McCain returned — without Pence — he stopped in the well of the chamber, cast his “no” vote — sparking stunned gasps and some applause — and returned to his seat.


The bill’s fate began to collapse Thursday as McCain sought an iron-clad guarantee from Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) that, if the Senate approved this latest proposal, the House would not move to quickly approve the bill in its current form and instead engage in a broad House-Senate negotiation for a wider rollback of the law. Ryan issued a statement intended to assuage the concerns of McCain and two others, Sens. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) and Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), but the 2008 presidential nominee deemed the speaker’s statement as insufficient.

[FaultyMario]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc8qK7SaxyM

[Tom Servo]

Man...for once, McCain wasn't just "concerned".

[Tom Servo]

WSJ: "Half his tweets show utter weakness. They are plaintive, shrill little cries, usually just after dawn."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-is-woody-allen-without-the-humor-1501193193?mod=e2two

[Crazed_Insanity]

Awesome. Republicans imploding again under trump leadership! :)

[Freude am Fahren]

Don't give McCain too much credit now, he's voted no because it didn't destroy the ACA enough, from what I understand.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm giving Trump credit for seeing them drowning in the swamp! :D

They can't even agree on REPEALING OBAMACARE!!!

It'll be super surprising to see the GOP retain majority at congress or keeping the WH.

Com'on DNC, get yourself together and don't waste the opportunity.

[thesameguy]

You have the luxury of being a cynic in this arena. I don't.

I have no idea what that means.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, he believes racism runs deep in America, which is true and realistic

But America also have guaranteed rights that are very idealistic, which he knows..., but I guess he's just more of a realist than idealist.

Regardless of which we are, we are all still living in the same universe... maybe there are other sets of us living in other multiverses, but for now, we'll have to learn to get along in this world somehow...

Neanderthal, just look back, have you seen progress over the years? Yes, we're still far from Dr. King's dream, but I really think we're making steady progress and inching closer to that dream. Cheer up.

[Tom Servo]

Priebus just got ousted.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DF2anwCV0AAZ0yd.jpg

[thesameguy]

Guess Trump never saw Tropic Thunder.

[Tom Servo]

3 Chief of Staffs in less than 3 years of being President: Part of the reason why @BarackObama can't manage to pass his agenda.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/156829591267328000

[Tom Servo]

Speaking of, do you think he still believes that he's supposed to eliminate someone each week?

[thesameguy]

I'm not sure he thinks in terms of weeks - he's more of the fruit fly persuasion - so I'd say probably not. What's really off-putting is that it's quite clear he doesn't care to understand the job (not that he necessarily can't, he just doesn't) so by what criteria can he judge the people around him? Not by a useful or productive one, obviously. "Make me look good" is really not what this or any country needs from its leaders.

[FaultyMario]

Old dog cant learn new tricks.

He gun get fucked. (or he will throw Kushner in jail).

[thesameguy]

Tend to agree on both points.

[neanderthal]

I have no idea what that means.

I'm black. I don't have the luxury of assuming cops, DAs, the general public are not going to think the pathology of blacks is towards criminality.

[thesameguy]

I'm sorry you feel that way. In my experience, acting like everyone is out to get you and believing that everyone out to get you are two very different things. "Hope for the best and anticipate the worst," as they say. There is a difference between cynicism and caution, and mixing up the two blah blah blah the dark side. You gotta do you, I realize and respect that, but at the same time I'm not sure I could maintain a completely negative outlook on any scenario and not make exceptional adjustments to my situation to avoid said scenario. That, admittedly, is just me. As my Uncle Gary (who is black) once told me, "If you can't hope for the best, what's the point?" Admittedly, he was talking about blackjack (or possibly the quality of GSR mixed drinks), but I think the point still stands.

[FaultyMario]

wise man that gary, he still swinging it?

[FaultyMario]

Teh Mooch with bbc interviewer, anybody got that video? Hilarious!

[neanderthal]

I'm sorry you feel that way. In my experience, acting like everyone is out to get you and believing that everyone out to get you are two very different things. "Hope for the best and anticipate the worst," as they say. There is a difference between cynicism and caution, and mixing up the two blah blah blah the dark side. You gotta do you, I realize and respect that, but at the same time I'm not sure I could maintain a completely negative outlook on any scenario and not make exceptional adjustments to my situation to avoid said scenario. That, admittedly, is just me. As my Uncle Gary (who is black) once told me, "If you can't hope for the best, what's the point?" Admittedly, he was talking about blackjack (or possibly the quality of GSR mixed drinks), but I think the point still stands.

Like I said, it's a luxury I don't have.

[thesameguy]

wise man that gary, he still swinging it?

Yes he is. Always my favorite uncle to run into at family reunions. He and my aunt moved to Vegas a while back. I understand the blackjack and the mixed drinks are superior there. ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm black. I don't have the luxury of assuming cops, DAs, the general public are not going to think the pathology of blacks is towards criminality.
It's bad for cops,da,and the public to assume all blacks are criminals.

It's also bad to assume that they are all racists!

Like tsg said earlier, it's okay to expect the worse, but it's also important to not forget about hoping for the best too.

[neanderthal]

It's bad for cops,da,and the public to assume all blacks are criminals.

It's also bad to assume that they are all racists!

Like tsg said earlier, it's okay to expect the worse, but it's also important to not forget about hoping for the best too.

Here comes the tone deaf not black guy telling the black guy how to experience his black life, when the black guy has nothing else to baseline his experiences against. I'll do that. That's such a great idea. I don't know why I didn't think about that.

Until the next time some shit goes down.

[Tom Servo]

That's some solid victim blaming there, Billi. To paraphrase, "It's your fault for not assuming that you won't get shot to death for not doing anything wrong."

[MR2 Fan]

hey, we have another thread for this discussion ;)

[sandydandy]

It's bad for cops,da,and the public to assume all blacks are criminals Of course it's bad for them to assume that, but it doesn't seem to stop them. Do you actually think they're going to come out and say it?

Their actions speak louder than their (supposed) intentions.

[The359]

One group also has the power to ruin your life, while the other is an inconvenience.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Cops can easily use the same logic. I don't have the luxury to assume this black guy is not a bad guy... You don't know what's it like to put your life on the line, blah blah blah...

Anyway, if you wish to live your live assuming every cop is a racist asshole out to get you, more power to you I guess.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Of course it's bad for them to assume that, but it doesn't seem to stop them. Do you actually think they're going to come out and say it?

Their actions speak louder than their (supposed) intentions.

Do you really believe the actions of shooting dogs and white woman were the result of cops mistaking them for black guys?

Not denying racism, but the police force is also fucked up in other ways. If we can fix that, I'm sure we will also have less black deaths.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's some solid victim blaming there, Billi. To paraphrase, "It's your fault for not assuming that you won't get shot to death for not doing anything wrong."

Please don't quote nor paraphrase me. Especially not twist my words. I hate that. I already have communication issues so you don't need to twist my words into something I didn't say.

Either back up your claim or apologize for your fake paraphrase please.

[neanderthal]

Incredibly tone deaf guy tries to make a point; fails spectacularly and throws in some casual racism.


Cops can easily use the same logic. I don't have the luxury to assume this black guy is not a bad guy... You don't know what's it like to put your life on the line, blah blah blah...

Anyway, if you wish to live your live assuming every cop is a racist asshole out to get you, more power to you I guess.

If you're a cop you sign up for that shit. It's kinda how it works. Just like if one is a nurse, they've essentially signed up to see blood and gore. If one is a teacher, they know they're going to be dealing with other peoples kids. It's kinda how the fucking thing works!

[neanderthal]

Do you really believe the actions of shooting dogs and white woman were the result of cops mistaking them for black guys?

Not denying racism, but the police force is also fucked up in other ways. If we can fix that, I'm sure we will also have less black deaths.

No dummy, YOU SAID THAT!!!!!

[neanderthal]

It's bad for cops,da,and the public to assume all blacks are criminals.

Yes


It's also bad to assume that they are all racists!

Nowhere have I said such. However, I have said I don't have the luxury of assuming I will be treated ordinarily/ fairly in any given circumstance. This completely changes how I live my life. Guess how many loud parties I've had. None. Guess how many quiet gatherings i've had. None. Guess how many highly modified cars i've had. None. Guess how much "urban wear/ jewelry/ accessories" I have. None. No Jordans. Ever. Not one pair. None. I do go to parties, cookouts, bbqs etc, but I leave early. Every time. Before alcohol starts becoming a factor.
But yeah, keep telling me how I shouldn't make assumptions about MY life.


Like tsg said earlier, it's okay to expect the worse, but it's also important to not forget about hoping for the best too.

Philando Castille expected to be treated like an honest upright citizen. He's dead.
Sandra Bland was pulled over for not signalling a lane change. She's dead.
Walter Scott had a broken tail light. He's dead.
John Crawford is dead. "A black man has a gun at Walmart." They sell guns there, he's not allowed to buy one? Well, he's fucking dead.
Tamir Rice is dead. He was 12.
Bruce Warrick was shot immediately after being told o put his hands up.
There's a whole list of people who's names I can give you. Dead.

Charles Kinsey, shot while lying on the ground on his back with his arms clearly up, taking care of an autistic patient, trying to get him up from where he sat, the middle of a road.

Black burglary suspects are depicted with mugshots and white suspects depicted with their yearbook photo. Same paper. Same crime. (http://boingboing.net/2015/03/31/arrested-for-same-crime-in-ne.html) Published within a day of each other.

You've got balls to tell Swervo not to paraphrase you. Big fucking brass ones.

You do ME a favor. Don't fucking tell me how to live my life. Don't suggest a sunny side up attitude or mentality. Don't you dare preach to me what expectations I need to have in any given situation. Don't begin to assume you know me, you know what i've lived through, what i've seen, what i've heard. And don't you deign to make any assumptions or judgements about such nor use the pathetic excuse of your poor communication of your misbegotten ideas.

Thank you.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Fine forget you.

We have dead dogs and white woman too. Yes, the numbers don't quite compare to number of black men, but I think it's clear that it's not just a racial problem but an incompetence problem.

Is it wrong of me to ask the police to become more competent 1st?

Or must we just make sure that there are as many dead dogs and white folks as black men?

[Tom Servo]

Please don't quote nor paraphrase me. Especially not twist my words. I hate that. I already have communication issues so you don't need to twist my words into something I didn't say.

Either back up your claim or apologize for your fake paraphrase please.

Seriously? You're the king of putting words in other people's mouths on here. You insist that anyone that points out institutional racism therefore believes that all cops are members of the KKK. You always say "Well, if you don't believe this thing, then you must believe this polar opposite". That's like your defining trait on here, putting words in other people's mouths. Suddenly this is the thing that sets you off? Go look in the mirror.

And it's taking everything in me to not just mock the fuck out of you for saying "don't quote[...]me". If you don't want to get quoted, don't fucking say it.

[neanderthal]

Incredibly tone deaf idiot, KEEPS BEING TONE DEAF, in the midst of almost everybody else saying "hey, you're being tone deaf." You're quite the fuckwit.


Fine forget you.

We have dead dogs and white woman too. Yes, the numbers don't quite compare to number of black men, but I think it's clear that it's not just a racial problem but an incompetence problem.

Is it wrong of me to ask the police to become more competent 1st?

Or must we just make sure that there are as many dead dogs and white folks as black men?

[Godson]

For fucks sake. This is politics thread.

Can we keep our quota to one train wreck per thread?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Seriously? You're the king of putting words in other people's mouths on here. You insist that anyone that points out institutional racism therefore believes that all cops are members of the KKK. You always say "Well, if you don't believe this thing, then you must believe this polar opposite". That's like your defining trait on here, putting words in other people's mouths. Suddenly this is the thing that sets you off? Go look in the mirror.

And it's taking everything in me to not just mock the fuck out of you for saying "don't quote[...]me". If you don't want to get quoted, don't fucking say it.

Just because I'm king, doesn't mean you need to be my queen.

Can you help me find the words that I said which resulted in your paraphrase or you just wish to remain my train wreck queen?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Incredibly tone deaf idiot, KEEPS BEING TONE DEAF, in the midst of almost everybody else saying "hey, you're being tone deaf." You're quite the fuckwit.
This is an Internet forum, excuse me for not hearing any tones.

Again, is it a train wreck kind of idea to want police to become more competent 1st?

You don't know what's it like to be me. If you don't want an optimistic outlook of the future at all, fine. However, I'm optimistic about the future. I'm hopeful dr kings dream will eventually come true.

Let's just agree to disagree.

[drew]

Mo, I again applaud your fortitude.


Your pint just grew to a keg the next time we meet.

Ty, I think this is a freight train full of dumpster fires.

fucking hell.

[Tom Servo]

Apologies, I'm going to hold out on clicking "view post" for as long as I can.

[Godson]

Mo, I again applaud your fortitude.


Your pint just grew to a keg the next time we meet.

Ty, I think this is a freight train full of dumpster fires.

fucking hell.

Exactly right in the first point. I'm just trying to keep the strings straight in my head.

[sandydandy]

Let's just agree to disagree. If only you'd said that 900 pages ago.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, pretty sure this train wasn't derailed by me.

[Godson]

Don't fucking care.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well I care.

Actually I don't particularly care to be called names when I'm actually trying to encourage Neanderthal to have some hope.

I also don't particularly care to be accused/paraphrased of victim blaming when not.

[G'day Mate]

Hope's a fragile thing, easily bruised and beaten by real life.

[Freude am Fahren]

To Billi's question. Racism should be taken care of before "competency" as you put it. I'd rather not have a police force full of very good murderers.

[neanderthal]

For fucks sake. This is politics thread.

Can we keep our quota to one train wreck per thread?

I apologise my brother. I will refrain.

[thesameguy]

To Billi's question. Racism should be taken care of before "competency" as you put it. I'd rather not have a police force full of very good murderers.

I doubt anyone (save racists...) would disagree. But how does any society effectively screen ideals, much less a society ostensibly based on personal freedom?

My understanding from people I know who have applied for or become police officers is that they do try to screen for racial bias. The efforts are questionably effective - applicants know the right answers, they will beat the system.

"Get racists out of the police force" is great, let's do that. But how?

I'm not a psychologist, I don't know the answer, but I'd wager that being angry isn't part of it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

To Billi's question. Racism should be taken care of before "competency" as you put it. I'd rather not have a police force full of very good murderers.

'Competency' isn't just about being good shooters. I'm talking also about the ability to minimize accidental shootings too.

Yeah, racism tests can be easily aced by racists if they know the right answers, but if you have a string of questionable shootings, and unable to improve your record, then you really shouldn't be a cop.

No body cam footage shooting/injuries should all be classified as questionable. We can't really expect cops to have perfect record, but maybe a 3 strikes and be out rule or something. Anyway, I'm no expert, but point is we need to implement something that'll significantly reduce accidental deaths and injuries. That's what I mean by competency.

Anyway, it's probably best for black lives and blue lives to engage in some sort of constructive dialogue to solve this problem rather just getting angry... And I probably should just shut the fuck up since I'm neither black nor blue.

[neanderthal]

Maybe it's best for you to stop pontificating on the matter. You don't speak with any authority or experience as either a black person or policeman, yet deign to have the strongest opinions which end up being offensive to blacks AND policemen.

[Freude am Fahren]

I doubt anyone (save racists...) would disagree. But how does any society effectively screen ideals, much less a society ostensibly based on personal freedom?

My understanding from people I know who have applied for or become police officers is that they do try to screen for racial bias. The efforts are questionably effective - applicants know the right answers, they will beat the system.

"Get racists out of the police force" is great, let's do that. But how?

I'm not a psychologist, I don't know the answer, but I'd wager that being angry isn't part of it.

Well, prosecution would be a start. Instead we've made example after example that you can get away with it.

[thesameguy]

Very strongly agree.

My point is only that "stop racism" is difficult to legislate and essentially impossible to enforce. Stop racism is a boondoggle - we can chase it forever and achieve nothing.

Hefty penalties for incompetent behavior is not difficult to legislate or enforce. Focus the effort there, make the fight about accountability and not race relations. Find the result, choose the best fight to get you there.

We don't get anywhere unless we can come to terms on some basic points. Letting people distract us from that, turning us on each other rather than the real problems facing this planet is a slow motion train wreck. "You don't understand my problems" is exactly the fight they want us to have, divisive and isolating. Of course I don't understand your problems - I haven't walked your path. But my lack of understanding does not create a lack of sympathy or empathy. In fact, those specific things are a big part of what makes us human. And maybe you can explain it to me, and maybe my lack of experience creates an opportunity for new information or a new perspective.

Maybe I'm stupid, but I just don't get what yelling at people has ever accomplished. In my experience, it's always counterproductive.

[Kchrpm]

You can't stop racism, but you can create and enforce rules against it. Just like you can't stop violence, but you can create and enforce rules around it.

First step: don't let people get away with violent crimes just because the victims are black.

Second step: don't let people say racist things without being reprimanded

Third step: introduce further processes for integrating forces/areas that wouldn't otherwise be integrated

Saying that we just need to stop people from doing the wrong thing is ignoring the fact that we're trying to, but many in power don't try as hard when those dumb things only affect minorities and the poor. Saying that yelling never accomplished anything is ignoring the fact that yelling is usually the first step in getting people's attention on a problem. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[Godson]

In other news.

Putin is trying to expel 755 diplomats.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/us-russia-ties-low-expulsions-diplomats-48948653

[MR2 Fan]

In other other news, Scaramucci is out....after only 10 days

[Fogelhund]

In other other news, Scaramucci is out....after only 10 days


Yup

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/31/us/politics/anthony-scaramucci-white-house.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

LOL Going to need to install a revolving door.

[Kchrpm]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh man.

[George]

:popcorn:

[thesameguy]

My boss is a big fan of that squeaky wheel saying, and while I guess I can't it never worked, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work anymore. Yelling works primarily when one party has no option, when one person or group needs something from the other. When you've got a route available to help you circumvent essentially any obstacle, squeaking doesn't work so well. Today, the internet is that route. There is always somewhere to go where you won't get yelled at, where you will be accepted and encouraged no matter what your ideas might be. That creates a real problem for the traditional evolution of society, for conventional approaches to problem solving. Finding and maintaining an environment based on the status quo is trivial. It's absolutely brutal.

I feel like despite all of humanity's accomplishments we've succeeded minimally in moving society forward, and maximally at just decorating the same pile of shit we've had all along. For all the systems we've invented to propel us forward, those systems have been leveraged to keep us stationary. I feel that we have to get really creative if we are going to get anything done. That using the same techniques and approaches are going to yield the same virtually immaterial results. The people who are working against equality and freedom and liberty have the playbook, they've had centuries to concoct arguments against and diversions to progress. We gotta catch them off guard, do the things they don't or can't expect, and leverage the resources we have at hand to create the unity they don't want us to have.

It's just my $0.02.

[Kchrpm]

But we've made great progress in the last half century and even in recent decades, there is just more progress to be had. Our methods for bringing about change have been working.

[mk]

I feel that we have to get really creative if we are going to get anything done.

It's actually quite simple.

Just don't give power to one who wants it.

[thesameguy]

But we've made great progress in the last half century and even in recent decades, there is just more progress to be had. Our methods for bringing about change have been working.

Maybe it's my turn to be cynical. ;)

I feel like we were making progress, but I'm feeling a lot less positive about it over the past decade or so. :(

[Kchrpm]

There's national uproar about the defense of transgender rights. That wasn't happening in 1990s AFAIK.

And uproar, especially at a national stage, is important. As the young and others with malleable minds start opening their hearts up to more people, demographics, and ideas, they go out in to societies and companies with those ideas. They become consumers and voters with those ideas. Companies and politicians realize that they need to reflect those ideas if they're going to continue having the support of those people. So you get big public shows of support for those ideas, which are seen by the new youth, who become even more malleable and open.

Will it be a constant drumbeat forward that you can set your watch by? No, there will be stumbles and ground given back, but overall we will progress forward until a catastrophe/war ends our civilized society. There will be more couples mixed with more combinations, there will be more heads of companies and heads of state of different demographics, more light will be shone on those who have not become malleable and they will slowly age out or be replaced. We're walking the path, but it is a walk. That doesn't mean we need to jump off and go in another direction, it means we can try to walk faster.

[thesameguy]

I hope so, I really do. I'm not really convinced, though. I am not on Facebook or anything, but the girl is... sometimes we sit on the couch and just talk about news we've seen. I'm perpetually blown away by some of the stuff that young people are saying - really violent, hateful things. Things I certainly didn't hear when I was a kid. I really worry that uproar in a faraway place gets overshadowed by reprehensible ideas being spread "right at home" via the computer. I certainly agree that pushes for change will help influence young minds, but I also see that those same impressionable people have unprecedented access to repositories of fear, oppression, and hate. I'm pretty sure I'll be dead long before things come to a head, but I don't readily see how any fight ends in anything other than violence... and that kinda goes double when you factor in things like un- and underemployement, etc. I feel that making things less of a fight for change and ultimately a concerted effort towards evolution would be ultimately more productive. I dunno, and I'm pretty aware that ultimately all we can do is wait and see. I just simultaneously have a lot of hope, and a lot of doubt.

[MR2 Fan]

I believe major changes are generational...we don't see big changes in society in less than 20-40 years and it does get frustrating, but that's how it goes.

Often, it's older people in power who are used to the old, outdated ways of doing things, so despite what younger people want...it takes a long time for those changes to happen.

[SportWagon]

In other other news, Scaramucci is out....after only 10 days
That's actually a great relief. The man seemed somewhat like a paranoid schizophrenic.

[thesameguy]

I believe major changes are generational...we don't see big changes in society in less than 20-40 years and it does get frustrating, but that's how it goes.

Often, it's older people in power who are used to the old, outdated ways of doing things, so despite what younger people want...it takes a long time for those changes to happen.

This is true, but part of my point is that the ideas that have historically died as a generation did no longer do. Things have been able to get done as people forget what was tried before, or how it was tried, or what the results were. Human history unfolds cyclically as society keeps doing the same things over and over again as ideals are lost and then recreated. The cycle is impacted historically as people live longer and those cycles become longer, but now we have the internet which has the potential to keep ideas alive indefinitely. When I was a kid, it was a big deal to find books or magazines from past times with crazy ideas... like, I remember when my friends found out about the anarchist's cookbook and it seemed really special and rebellious. These days, crazy ideas and communities that support them are just a click away. Everything your parents did is essentially immediately accessible to you. Not only does this keep ideas alive, but it normalizes them.

It's my personal, totally unscientific opinion that this normalization is what's driving the increasing polarization of society. To draw on the LGBTQ example, when I was young these ideas just weren't discussed. I never had an opinion. When I found out my first real girlfriend was B, it was easy to have a positive opinion because she was great. Her L friends were great. Why would there be any problem? Today, for every kid that's exposed to a rainbow at 10 there is another exposed to a hate meme. We're raising a generation of kids indoctrinated into these polarized opinions, and regardless of which side they choose they immediately find piles of people with similar opinions. None of them have to rationalize their emotions, they find instant confirmation. Nobody at 10 should have to form an opinion much stronger than one about their favorite ice cream... but they are more or less compelled to. What happens when these kids grow up? How do they reconcile ideals which are essentially part of their being, concepts formed before they had experience or knowledge to vet them?

I totally realize that changing society is a long, drawn out process - my concern is that there are forces opposing it, and if we don't seek to change how we do it those forces will overwhelm change initiatives. I don't play pretty much any sports, but I'm still reasonably certain that if the other team has your playbook, it's gonna be ugly. Unfortunately, the people pushing for change are always the offense. Pushing the status quo is virtually always easier... witness income inequality whose fight is mostly just a footnote at this point.

[mk]

I believe major changes are generational

In numbers.

If someone is calling their grandpa who's 82, he was around 10 around 45.
That someone may be around 30, being around 10 around 98.

Dang, grandpa has seen a bit.

[Sad, little man]

Death to Moochy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I hope so, I really do. I'm not really convinced, though. I am not on Facebook or anything, but the girl is... sometimes we sit on the couch and just talk about news we've seen. I'm perpetually blown away by some of the stuff that young people are saying - really violent, hateful things. Things I certainly didn't hear when I was a kid. I really worry that uproar in a faraway place gets overshadowed by reprehensible ideas being spread "right at home" via the computer. I certainly agree that pushes for change will help influence young minds, but I also see that those same impressionable people have unprecedented access to repositories of fear, oppression, and hate. I'm pretty sure I'll be dead long before things come to a head, but I don't readily see how any fight ends in anything other than violence... and that kinda goes double when you factor in things like un- and underemployement, etc. I feel that making things less of a fight for change and ultimately a concerted effort towards evolution would be ultimately more productive. I dunno, and I'm pretty aware that ultimately all we can do is wait and see. I just simultaneously have a lot of hope, and a lot of doubt.

Ditto. I have a lot of doubt with regard to human nature. I'm only more hopeful because of my faith in a loving God.

Anyway, for those who really believe yelling can result in change, just take a look at our government. Surely you've seen a lot of 'yelling, belittle-ing, and demonizing' between the Republicans and the Democrats. What kind of progress have you witnessed lately?

These 2 groups are roughly equal in power too.

What chance does a black group have when armed with just "yelling" against a more powerful non-black group?

We all need to learn to respect each other more and truly work together in order to move forward. Dr. King also didn't just yell, but delivered an inspirational speech in the name of God and referred to our great nations' very own declaration of independence. Very different from just yelling.

With regard to politics, Republicans want to reduce size of govt and repeal this or that and be more fiscally responsible. Fine... sounds noble. However, it is clear that regardless of how small the government become..., they don't really have a clue on how to lead this nation to become great again.

Democrats also have lots of good ideals. Besides promoting poor/minority/lgbt/whatever rights, they don't really actually do much to help push these ideals forward. What I hate about the DNC is that things tend to end up backwards. (But of course, we always can blame the worst ever congress for the bad things...) Still, not to be too critical of Obama, under his admin, poor became poorer. He also did not always championed gay rights, but at least he eventually did. And with Hillary's 'better together' slogan, I just don't believe she really wants to be together with the any of the consesrvatives or deplorables.

If we don't change these trends, I'm sure we'll be seeing shoot outs between blacks and cops pretty soon. Civil war also probably won't be far off... silverlining in that is that hopefully the polarizing extremists will all die off so the mellower folks will finally be able to work together to build a better future.

Anyway, back to topic...

I hope General Kelly will finally be able to get things under control in the white house... fingers crossed. Circus act needs to stop man...

[Freude am Fahren]

As if I didn't already love Kate Hudson, she posted this:

https://scontent-mia3-2.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/20479195_2037816803113274_4707361964043534336_n.jp g

(she was in the actual How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days) :lol:

I also love this little bit of the story: Mooch basically got Priebus fired. Which opened the door for Kelly. Who had Mooch ousted.

[neanderthal]

Target had an ad with two dads in it (two moms maybe) a year or two ago and the christian conservative twittersphere went bananas, and Target just ignored them.

That wouldn't have happened 15 years ago.

The bathroom bills are being pushed, and pushed back against repeatedly, over and over and over where and when they happen.

I myself just learned some new terms that aren't typically in heteronormative culture a few years ago, related to the trans/ queer community and how to address them. Trans sexual by the way, is NOT how you address that group.

We are making a ton of progress but we are still killing black people with institutions (police, DAs, juries letting killer cops go.)

[Tom Servo]

The news here is saying that one of the first things that Kelly has done other than get rid of Scaramucci was to tell all White House staff that they report to him and nobody is reporting directly to Trump. We all know how much he respects his generals, but I wonder how long he'll put up with that.

[novicius]

Well if Trump knew what was good for him, he'd sit back and let Gen. Kelly run his show.

So I expect to hear about Kelly's firing in 3... 2... :lol:

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, at some point Trump will go to one of his staffers directly and demand something get done, and that person will either have to defy Kelly or tell Trump to run the request through Kelly. As soon as someone basically says "My boss says I can't take direct requests from you.", things will go poorly.

[thesameguy]

I think you mean hilariously?

[Crazed_Insanity]

General Kelly is a James Comey sympathizer and was close to resigning as homeland security chief upon Comey's firing... so it's a bit odd that he'd take this job.

I'd imagine he took on this job way more prepared than the Mooch... before Kelly gets fired, my hope that General Kelly will begin the process of draining the swamp and maybe even the POTUS himself!

[thesameguy]

It will be interesting to see if he can reign Trump in. I'm really with Swervo - it'll go great until Trump decides to insert himself into something he shouldn't. Kelly is going into this with more information than anyone - years of Washington experience and he's witnessed all the wackadoo Trump stuff to date. If Trump crosses him, or undermines him, or puts him into a compromised position there's gonna be issues. One would hope Trump recognizes these facts, one would believe he's unlikely to care.

[Tom Servo]

I think you mean hilariously?

I mean all those things, and more!

Speaking of, Washington Post is pointing out that Trump appears to be acting as his own lawyer more and more often when it comes to his legal woes rather than going through his actual lawyers, so that should make it even more entertaining.

[thesameguy]

Don't see why he would need a laywer... He is Donald J. Trump ffs.

[21Kid]

Don't his lawyers even have lawyers?

[thesameguy]

Yeah, but none of them are Trump.

[Crazed_Insanity]

More I think about it, the more I think general kelly probably don't care about getting fired, since he was ready to quit... So maybe he's being a true patriot by trying to get close to the POTUS in order to take him down before he goes down...

[novicius]

Meritocracies inevitably devolve into oligarchy.

The point of a meritocracy is to promote "merit" by rewarding it. But the rewards represent a concentration of stored resources and value, and that equals power. Even if a meritocracy starts out fair, power will accumulate in few hands.

Those who accumulate power will do three things. One, they will use their power to redefine "merit" so it favors them, two, they will use that power to erect roadblocks in the way of others accumulating power, and three, they will pass that power down to their children, regardless of merit.
Apropos of nothing, a good explanation taken from Reddit. :up:

[Tom Servo]

Almost exactly a year ago, Trump told the black community "What do you have to lose?"

Well, the Justice Department has decided it's time to start investigating discrimination against white people, apparently.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/us/politics/trump-affirmative-action-universities.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

[Tom Servo]

Also, Trump just signed the sanctions bill against Russia, Iran, and North Korea that includes language specifically barring him from making changes to it. The great dealmaker's weakness is showing.

EDIT: Apparently he put out a written statement calling the bill "significantly flawed" with "unconstitutional provisions." If he believes that, wouldn't signing it be a violation of his oath of office where he swore to uphold the constitution?

[thesameguy]

Help. I'm being oppressed.

[drew]

He still thinks he's king. A constitutions is what allows you to eat KFC and taco bowls at 70 and not die of cardiac arrest, not laws.

[thesameguy]

:lol: :up:

[neanderthal]

Also, Trump just signed the sanctions bill against Russia, Iran, and North Korea that includes language specifically barring him from making changes to it. The great dealmaker's weakness is showing.

EDIT: Apparently he put out a written statement calling the bill "significantly flawed" with "unconstitutional provisions." If he believes that, wouldn't signing it be a violation of his oath of office where he swore to uphold the constitution?

If he doesn't sign within 10 days it becomes law. Exception is if the Congress goes into recess in those ten days. It's called a pocket veto or something like that.

[Tom Servo]

True, but then he could maintain deniability.

In other dear leader news:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGRKqLiVYAA9n88.jpg:large

Of note, the "fake news" in question was a Sports Illustrated feature that was reprinted by Golf Magazine, in which the president explained that he prefers to spend time at his golf courses because the White House is "a dump". I am expecting "Highlights for Children" to be called out next.

[Alan P]

Some of the stuff that gets recycled on the Reddit trumpcriticizestrump sub is comedy gold.

[Tom Servo]

Well, this is certainly something. Leaked transcripts of the phone calls Trump had with Turnbull of Australia and Peña Nieto of Mexico soon after inauguration day (during that flurry of calls he was having with various heads of state).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/politics/australia-mexico-transcripts/?utm_term=.bb1e6ad68f0d

[MR2 Fan]

gem from Twitter just now:

CNN: Grand Jury
MSNBC: Grand Jury
Fox News: Have you ever looked at a starfish? Like really looked at one? They're weird, man.

[thesameguy]

Soooo... Newsweek.

https://static.deathandtaxesmag.com/uploads/2017/08/newsweek-cover-trump-couch-1501853067-compressed.jpg

[drew]

There should be a couple golf clubs or golf balls in the shot too.

Damn... :lol:

[MR2 Fan]

can someone explain to me the idea of "globalism" being bad. I've seen/heard right wingers use this term and maybe most of them don't even know what they're referring to with it?

Maybe they think globalism means that it's open borders for all and everyone good and bad can move in (and take jobs, do terror attacks, etc.) or is it something else?

I think the idea of some parts of globalism are fine, as long as it doesn't mean a few corporations running the globe, which ironically is what the actual GOP most likely wants.

[The359]

I think it's more that some view America under Obama as bailing out or helping other countries and people while America has it's own problems, and not showing dominance towards other nations because U.S.A. #1 and such. They don't want America to be an equal and helping other nations, they want America to be telling other nations what to do to fix themselves or just flat out ignoring them.

But yes, they also don't like the example of the EU with its open borders with other EU nations.

[thesameguy]

There are a lot of ways in which globalization can be bad. One interesting way that we are feeling on the west coast is dirty energy consumption. We enjoy a concentration of wealth in the US, which drives consumerism, which drives Chinese industry, which drives Chinese energy consumption (which is a lot of coal), which is not tightly regulated, and the waste from that production blows across the Pacific and into California.

Another example is resource transfer - and that could be oil or food. Rich countries can drive up prices in poorer countries, creating a stark wealth divide in a remote place. There was a big stink about quinoa, for example, which suddenly became popular in the US. Since it isn't produced domestically, we got it from other, poorer places. That drove up prices on a staple food, making it unaffordable to people who relied on it while making people who produced it wealthy. The same effect has happened with other resources, like oil.

The area that probably upsets Trump's base is going to be labor transfer - the movement of jobs from expensive developed countries to less expensive, less developed countries. Things like textiles and manufacturing but even things like tech support and engineering get sent overseas where labor is cheaper. It creates a job problem domestically but also can victimize foreign persons where employment may be less regulated, creating artificial economic conditions which hurt local populations.

Sort of similarly, there is a tendency for wealth to get transferred out of developed countries into developing ones - when Dell can save money in the US by building a gigantic campus in India, that is not just lost tech support or engineering jobs, but land not sold domestically, taxes not generated domestically, contractors not employed domestically, etc. It's money from consumers that goes a) into the pockets of a few rich Americans, and b) overseas. It feels a bit rough.

This is all pretty myopic - specific things that are problematic. There are certainly arguments to counter them. But, no matter what, an issue with globalization is that the models to describe anything are infinitely complex and impossible to develop. Factoring all the conditions in one environment to create an economic model is difficult, trying to factor in all the environments is a whole other thing. It's unlikely anyone ever anticipated cheap TVs would cause pollution in San Francisco, but here we are.

Would specific things be simpler without globalization? Probably. Would things be better? Dunno that I'd go that far.

[MR2 Fan]

I suppose it goes to the same problem that (I believe mostly the right side) people have is the "black and white" (not race but matter of thinking) mentality to things:

Capitalism Good / Communism Bad
Isolationism Good / Globalism Bad
Conservatives Good / Liberals Bad

etc.

People just jumping to one side or another with no middle ground because that requires too much thinking

[thesameguy]

It's complicated, that's for sure.

[FaultyMario]

I hate paying 4 dollars for a kilo of Hass avocados.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I suppose it goes to the same problem that (I believe mostly the right side) people have is the "black and white" (not race but matter of thinking) mentality to things:

Capitalism Good / Communism Bad
Isolationism Good / Globalism Bad
Conservatives Good / Liberals Bad

etc.

People just jumping to one side or another with no middle ground because that requires too much thinking

Aren't most people here at the opposite end?
Socialism good/capitalism bad
Globalism good/isolationism bad
Liberals good/conservatives bad

Who here can truly appreciate benefit of both sides and also not ignore the shortcomings of their preferred side?

Political polarization can only happen when we have extremists on both sides.

Now on a more serious note, avacados are really outrageously expensive! Who's fault is that?

[neanderthal]

There are a lot of ways in which globalization can be bad. One interesting way that we are feeling on the west coast is dirty energy consumption. We enjoy a concentration of wealth in the US, which drives consumerism, which drives Chinese industry, which drives Chinese energy consumption (which is a lot of coal), which is not tightly regulated, and the waste from that production blows across the Pacific and into California.

Another example is resource transfer - and that could be oil or food. Rich countries can drive up prices in poorer countries, creating a stark wealth divide in a remote place. There was a big stink about quinoa, for example, which suddenly became popular in the US. Since it isn't produced domestically, we got it from other, poorer places. That drove up prices on a staple food, making it unaffordable to people who relied on it while making people who produced it wealthy. The same effect has happened with other resources, like oil.

The area that probably upsets Trump's base is going to be labor transfer - the movement of jobs from expensive developed countries to less expensive, less developed countries. Things like textiles and manufacturing but even things like tech support and engineering get sent overseas where labor is cheaper. It creates a job problem domestically but also can victimize foreign persons where employment may be less regulated, creating artificial economic conditions which hurt local populations.

Sort of similarly, there is a tendency for wealth to get transferred out of developed countries into developing ones - when Dell can save money in the US by building a gigantic campus in India, that is not just lost tech support or engineering jobs, but land not sold domestically, taxes not generated domestically, contractors not employed domestically, etc. It's money from consumers that goes a) into the pockets of a few rich Americans, and b) overseas. It feels a bit rough.

This is all pretty myopic - specific things that are problematic. There are certainly arguments to counter them. But, no matter what, an issue with globalization is that the models to describe anything are infinitely complex and impossible to develop. Factoring all the conditions in one environment to create an economic model is difficult, trying to factor in all the environments is a whole other thing. It's unlikely anyone ever anticipated cheap TVs would cause pollution in San Francisco, but here we are.

Would specific things be simpler without globalization? Probably. Would things be better? Dunno that I'd go that far.

All of this is correct.

My beef with people who seem to be "anti globalism" is that they don't see the disconnect between their own consumer choices and resulting globalism. They mostly likely are the ones complaining about immigration/ Messicans/ stealing our jobs etc, but ..., like the low cost of food we now have. Which is only possible because of the low cost of labor provided to immigrants.
They most likely shop at a place like Walmart, where most of the product not only comes from China or overseas, but Walmart has a dubious record of killing small locally owned stores most places it sets up shop. And paying subsistence wages, whereby someone who is working doesn't make enough money to make a living, and is still getting Section 8 and or food stamps/ EBT. This drains economies.

Whereas if you shop at the local mom and pop tire shop and spend $500 there, what profits are contained therein are going to pay someone locally for supplies or wages. And then pay someone else for other services etc.
This is why I avoid Walmart as much as possible, bank with a credit union, and buy food from mom and pop restaurants as much as possible.
Shop local. Think global.

[JoeW]

Word.

[thesameguy]

I feel like the interesting discussion is really the long term. Globalization undoubtedly does two things: It moves wealth from place to place and it accelerates the consumption of resources. In my mind, both are terrible problems that nobody has rationalized dealing with. When very rich people can employ very poor people to get money from average people, it tends to slide average people down and poor and rich people up. The result, obviously, is really rich people getting obscenely rich and everyone else collecting near the bottom. At the same time, it gives rich people access to poor peoples' resources, accelerating their consumption while using it to feed the wealth equation. I dunno what happens in the long run, but it can't be good.

[neanderthal]

It continues until all the resources are in the hands of a few, and even basics like water are taxed/ processed.

Then the end if humanity begins as the poor start to cannibalise each other (not literally. I mean in competition for meagre jobs, meagre wages, etc) and a vicious circle ends wherein we return to pre industrial revolution type of living, while the wealthy live in manicured, gated, protected enclaves and travel with armed guards who have legal shoot to kill capability.

[JoshInKC]

Yeah, as an ungrad I took "The geography of globalization" - It was pretty eye-opening. The professor contended that no force in history had lifted more people out of extreme poverty than modern capitalist globalization, but at the same time it has allowed those at the top to move their problems out of sight, viciously oppressed those at the bottom, and vastly accelerated the environmental degradation of the planet.
Fun class. The final was a single essay question: "Is globalization a good thing or a bad thing? Explain your answer."

[thesameguy]

What was your answer? I feel like the only way to truly answer that question is with some deeply theological or metaphysical reasoning. How can you discuss the long term of the planet or humanity without taking a position on The Point? I mean, if The Point is to do stuff, then globalization can dramatically accelerate that. If The Point is to be excellent to each other, globalization is almost an obstacle. More of anything marginalized small quantities, right?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Jesus would do both. Be excellent to each other and to do good things!

[thesameguy]

People aren't that good at multitasking.

[JoshInKC]

It was several years ago, but I'm pretty sure my answer boiled down to "Ehhhh... six of one, half dozen of the other." It's the type of thing I'm naturally very good at answering, which is good since there aren't a lot of easy yes/no/black/white answers in anthropology. And the Professor was, like myself, into the Annales school, which lends itself to complex responses to historically contingent questions.
I think I walked out of there with a 100%. The professor and I got along very well, I highly recommend his book Time Space Compression: Historical Geographies (https://www.amazon.com/Time-Space-Compression-Historical-Geographies-Routledge/dp/0415418038)

[Crazed_Insanity]

$137 book?

Thanks but no thanks.


People aren't that good at multitasking.
Of course we can! People can easily be mean to each other and do evil stuffs at the same time...

[MR2 Fan]

Elon Musk retweeted this chart, found it relevant to our globalism topic

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGFN4MbUwAAQARi.jpg

[JoshInKC]

$137 book?

Thanks but no thanks.


Hahaha.- Someone is not familiar academic book pricing structures. $137 isn't too bad for the content, check this bad boy out: Encyclopedia of Geoarchaeology (https://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Geoarchaeology-Earth-Sciences/dp/9400748272/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1502032089&sr=8-9&keywords=geoarchaeology)
One of the authors is a colleague, and even he can't get the university library to shake loose funds for a copy. Supposedly, we're getting digital access to it soon, which (based on the publisher's previous works) means we'll have to organize a bunch of people to download/print 25-50 pages apiece, then knit them all together into a giant pdf.

Seriously, academic publishing is screwed up - with the prices they charge for books or even articles, a huge number of people get forced into this weird black-market of exchanging pdfs on the downlow. It's a real mess.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I do remember how expensive books were back in school even 25 years ago...

I cannot even imagine how I will be able to send my 5yr old to college. Good thing right now she is aspiring to be a chef... so maybe she won't goto college..., but then again, I've heard scary expensive cooking schools...

Anyway, speaking of education... those charts are amusing... after we spent all that money to give education to 86 people, but only 85 can read! What's up with that?!?!??

Or maybe we're currently educating a very young 86th person who just can't read yet... ;) Just find it interesting that literacy consistently lags behind education. Maybe people are just lazy or education system just needs improving?

[Cam]

I paid over $200 for just one textbook just a couple of years ago.

[FaultyMario]

Those graphs are seriously biased. 100 years? why not 42 or 111? it's a pretty arbitrary number.

Why not compare it on a generational basis, What were the advancements of the last 2 generations compared to our own? For example it's pretty pointless to compare basic education now to basic education 100 years ago. 40 years ago secondary education got you a better life than graduate education does now.

On the other hand, what are the conditions for Democracy, do we take the basics of free elections, free media and accountability/maximum publicity of government resources? if so, China, India, The U.S., Indonesia and Brazil are not true democracies and they make up 46% of the world population, in excess of the 44% the table above shows.

[Crazed_Insanity]

200 years are probably about the time villages began to turn global?

Plus, who kept all the data for the entire planet back in the days when Jesus roamed the earth?

[FaultyMario]

Romans were pretty good at keeping data, and one of the reasons why you're a christian.

[Yw-slayer]

... one of the reasons why you're a christian.

#Thanks,Constantine

[neanderthal]

200 years are probably about the time villages began to turn global?

Plus, who kept all the data for the entire planet back in the days when Jesus roamed the earth?

I can't.

I really can't with you.

[JoeW]

I can't.

I really can't with you.

Almost choked on my popcorn there :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Romans were pretty good at keeping data, and one of the reasons why you're a christian.
Data for the entire globe?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I can't.

I really can't with you.
Dude, focus on globalism or politics, don't focus on me please. Thanks.

[FaultyMario]

Villages didn't turn global until the internet connected them and Walmart came to take over their value chains.

Cities, on the other hand, are a bit more complicated, as is the concept of the globe (https://www.amazon.com/Mediterranean-World-Age-Philip-Vol/dp/0520203089).

[JoshInKC]

Villages didn't turn global until the internet connected them and Walmart came to take over their value chains.

Cities, on the other hand, are a bit more complicated, as is the concept of the globe (https://www.amazon.com/Mediterranean-World-Age-Philip-Vol/dp/0520203089).
<3 <3 <3!

[Crazed_Insanity]

So you do concede Romans didn't have data collected for the entire globe at the time?

[21Kid]

Mo, stop torturing yourself... Nothing good comes from clicking "view post". NOTHING. Trust me. ;)

[Tom Servo]

It's having two "the"s in there that is maybe the most infuriating thing he's done thus far.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGnu6D3U0AAwmEO.jpg:large

[The359]

Someone remind me, when did the NYT apologize?

[thesameguy]

His pettiness is revealing. Someone who is confident in what they do and the results they get generally doesn't need to continually call attention to the failure of others. Take the high road, rise above it, move on. If you're really the superior party, don't play in the mud. He's not changing anyone's mind, and it's a bit pathetic he keeps trying.

[Tom Servo]

Someone remind me, when did the NYT apologize?

They didn't: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/nov/15/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-new-york-times-apologized-bad-co/

[21Kid]

His pettiness is revealing. Someone who is confident in what they do and the results they get generally doesn't need to continually call attention to the failure of others. Take the high road, rise above it, move on. If you're really the superior party, don't play in the mud. He's not changing anyone's mind, and it's a bit pathetic he keeps trying.

:lol: That's funny that you think he(they)'d be above such pettiness. He's been saying/doing the same thing for over a year, and it's worked for him/them so far. Why stop now?

[Tom Servo]

Wow, he must be really agitated. I think he's up to 12 or 13 tweets so far today, and still just ranting about the NY Times and Richard Blumenthal. No mention at all so far today about the 3 missing Marines in Australia or about the mosque bombing in Minnesota, but plenty of complaining that people aren't being nice to him.

EDIT: Nevermind. I hear that it's been pouring rain all day at his country club in New Jersey, so that's meant he's had to sit inside and stew all day rather than play golf.

[thesameguy]

:lol: That's funny that you think he(they)'d be above such pettiness. He's been saying/doing the same thing for over a year, and it's worked for him/them so far. Why stop now?

I anticipated Kelly would get him to sack up a bit, but perhaps Kelly's influence just means he isn't tweeting about anything policy or job related, just inconsequential bullshit.

[MR2 Fan]

so North Korea states a threat as usual, then Trump goes off the rails about Fire and biggest thing in history, etc., then NK says they're going to attack Guam.

I know that people don't think of Kim Jong Un as being a rational person, however I still believe if they were going to do something, they wouldn't SAY they were going to...they'd just do it.

However, I'm afraid of what Trump will do, especially since he'll do anything to distract from the Russia investigation.

Scary times

[Yw-slayer]

You realise, of course, that on this forum I am geographically closest to the DPRK.

I would also like to be able to visit Seoul again at some point, and other parts of Korea such as Jeju, as well as places I haven't been to in Japan (which is everywhere apart from Tokyo). I would really like to do so without having to wear an NBC suit.

I am also hoping that my children won't have to grow up worrying TOO much about radiation poisoning, but hey...

[FaultyMario]

Kim Jong Un is not irrational. And by the looks of it, he is disciplined to the advice of his staff.

Trump is a fucking disaster in foreign relations. If we didn't have a vassal government that is really regressive and authoritarian (and 2,000 violent deaths per month to keep us occupied), any of the shit he's pulled on our country would have had severe diplomatic/trade consequences.

[Tom Servo]

The FBI apparently carried out an early morning warrant search of one of Paul Manafort's homes back on Jul. 26th. Notable in that they got a warrant -- that requires probable cause, vs. a subpoena which does not.

[Tom Servo]

Also, I'd like to take a moment to thank Jill Stein for repeatedly saying that Clinton was a warmonger who would start World War III, whereas it was much less likely under Trump.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Also, I'd like to take a moment to thank Jill Stein for repeatedly saying that Clinton was a warmonger who would start World War III, whereas it was much less likely under Trump.

HAHA! That's funny dude. Yeah, blame it on Stein.

What about Gary Johnson?

How about let's blame Billi too?

Yes, it's always somebody else's fault... that NK has nuke ready to strike American soil.

If Hillary were not a proven warmonger, she wouldn't be called a warmonger.

If Hillary at least pretend to be and like Bernie Sanders, she could've easily be in the white house. But no..., she has to cozy up with Wall Street, defender of the established status quo... and a warmonger.

Since I voted for that chick, I feel the need to defend her a bit and call your thank you note a BS... goto 4:40 to see the Mooch question Stein on this topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqLae5SsIPA

Trump is a loose cannon... and I think Fox was a bit disappointed and realized that they wasted their time that Stein won't ask her supporters to go for Trump in the end...

Anyway, it's better that Trump picked on north Korea than Russia I guess.

If NK really fires something, fingers crossed that the anti-missile missile we've been working on for years can actually work for real...
If Russia fires their missiles, there's no way we have the capability to intercept all of them...

[The359]

Foreign policy shouldn't depend on "I hope our anti-missile missiles work".

Also, no one is "blaming it on Stein". Stein has nothing to do with North Korea having nukes. He's calling Stein out for what Stein said.

[thesameguy]

Foreign policy shouldn't depend on "I hope our anti-missile missiles work".

That's an interesting thing, because if they worked 100%, foreign policy would be a lot different. If we were smart, we'd invest trillions into a network of satellites with lasers to shoot down missiles aimed at us. That would be amazing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Foreign policy shouldn't depend on "I hope our anti-missile missiles work".

Also, no one is "blaming it on Stein". Stein has nothing to do with North Korea having nukes. He's calling Stein out for what Stein said.

Swervo sometimes like to paraphrase people incorrectly and he makes no apologies about it. So I'm calling Swervo out for needlessly thanking Stein.

Just to be clear, I don't recall Stein ever said Trump, the loose cannon, will be safer than the proven warmonger. We had to pick between 2 evils. My choice was neither. She's also pretty clear that she's won't be supporting Trump on Fox news even if she's dead in the water.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's an interesting thing, because if they worked 100%, foreign policy would be a lot different. If we were smart, we'd invest trillions into a network of satellites with lasers to shoot down missiles aimed at us. That would be amazing.

I think we've already spent too much money on this..., if there's anything we can learn from star wars or star trek is that we need 'shields'!!!

"Red Alert! Prepare phasers to counter act their phasers and lock on to their photon torpedos with our photon torpedos!!!"

Anyway, too bad most of our brilliant minds are stuck in the financial and computer sector... that's why we can have tremendous wealth and amazing computing/connectivity... yet we have no flying cars nor space exploration nor shields...

[Tom Servo]

I'll just leave this right here.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGv9iw7UAAIf5Aa.jpg:large

Also this.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gist/2016/10/jill_stein_thinks_nuclear_war_is_less_likely_under _trump.html

I wouldn't have thought much about it except now she's on Twitter asking people to "flood the White House switchboard" begging Trump to stop escalating nuclear tensions with North Korea.

[21Kid]

Star wars (http://www.coldwar.org/articles/80s/SDI-StarWars.asp)!!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interview was specifically about Hillary was more likely to fuck with Russia than Trump, which is true, for better or worse. Never had she endorsed Trump in any way.

And you have a problem with her tweet about Trump now? I hope you're thanking her for her recent tweet and not about Hillarys election lost.

[JoeW]

I'll just leave this right here.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGv9iw7UAAIf5Aa.jpg:large

Also this.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gist/2016/10/jill_stein_thinks_nuclear_war_is_less_likely_under _trump.html

I wouldn't have thought much about it except now she's on Twitter asking people to "flood the White House switchboard" begging Trump to stop escalating nuclear tensions with North Korea.

So, leaving that right there does what exactly? So she ran for Pres and lost...twice. Ran for Gov and lost, twice. She doesn't like anyone but those who are on her side. So it would follow that her opinion on Hillary's or Trump's policies wouldn't be favorable. But it's basically just her opinion. But you left it right there like it was some sort of gospel we need to pay attention to.

In addition, this was her opinion last Oct. I bet she's singing a different tune now ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

He left it for me. You don't really need to pay much attention...

[JoeW]

Oh...well...shit.

Take it away Billi...

[drew]

Joe?! Holy fuck.

[JoeW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDGlN6mluGA&feature=youtu.be

Yes I finally found my way back Mr. Fudpucker ;)

[MR2 Fan]

he shows up once a decade

[JoeW]

Damn kids and life always getting in the way of my online fun.

[drew]

I was just reminiscing the other day about the virus thread on the old, old, old forum.


What fond memories.

All I got from her was "what is wrong with you?"

I guess she doesn't find the sophistication of diarrhea pictures in the context of IT questions.

[JoeW]

Which is bullshit. Diarrhea is a serious problem and needs to be looked at...a lot (I believe the site was www.ratemypoo.com). I also like the threads about "having a breakthrough" when you wipe your ass and your finger breaks through the toilet paper...and the ever popular issue of trying to take a piss and it surprises you and does the split stream...neither of which enters the toilet.

Good times...

Crap...I just went to that poo website site for the first time since the olds days...and just started laughing out loud...oh boy I'm sick in the head...

[drew]

I try to visit that place a couple times a year. For nostalgic reasons.

[Tom Servo]

Yet another person who hitched his wagon to Trump is finding out that it's only a matter of time until he turns on you.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DG3PG9hVYAAmxZa.jpg:large

[neanderthal]

I don't know how these people don't realise that Trump is only about Trump and no one else.

[thesameguy]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day... The GOP had seven years to come up with a highly detailed repeal or replace plan they could agree on and execute when given the opportunity and they spent that whole time doing sod all. Now they're easily in control and have no idea what they're doing. Frankly, I'm happy Trump is calling them out for the sissy babies they collectively are.

[21Kid]

:lol:
You make it sound like it was actually about more than "Your team did something that's bad!" "Look at how bad this thing that your team did!"

I don't think if they ever anticipated ever having to actually do something. Or they thought someone (but, not them) on their side would come up with a plan. :lol:

[MR2 Fan]

This is NOT an article from The Onion

"Trump Is ‘Thankful’ Putin Ordered Cut To Diplomats: US ‘Able To Cut Our Payroll’"

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-thankful-putin-diplomatic-cut

I mean Holy Fucking Shit! How much more transparent can you be???

[thesameguy]

I don't really care what Trump's thought process was... the result is still him casting a light on the fact that despite years of complaints from politicians and their constituents when given the opportunity to do something about ACA they stalled out. If I were one of those lifetime Congresspeople on the right I would have gotten to work seven years ago on at least a legislative framework for undoing the worst thing to happen to American since a Muslim president and started shopping it around to get the team on board. Instead, they just kept screwing around, whining and bellyaching until, surprise, it's too late.

I also hope that this situation does not go unnoticed by the Democrats. They seem every bit as daft as the GOP, but I still maintain hope they are huddled in their impotent minority working real hard on a great plan for 2020. I don't think it's all that likely there's going to be any big turnaround in government, but if there is and the Democrats regain the upper hand in the next couple years, they damn well better have forests worth of productive, cohesive legislation that a) creates positive change in this country and b) gives their president some real first year legs.

If nothing else it's sickening that we have paid all these asshats to do nothing and now, even with the green light, they're doing NOTHING. If I called a major problem to the attention of my manager and seven years later still had no plan to address it I'd be fired and probably functionally blacklisted. These people are like dogs and a squirrel... all they see if the squirrel and they have no idea how long they've been watching it. LOOK AWAY, GO DIG A HOLE OR SOMETHING.

[neanderthal]

I don't really care what Trump's thought process was... the result is still him casting a light on the fact that despite years of complaints from politicians and their constituents when given the opportunity to do something about ACA they stalled out. If I were one of those lifetime Congresspeople on the right I would have gotten to work seven years ago on at least a legislative framework for undoing the worst thing to happen to American since a Muslim president and started shopping it around to get the team on board. Instead, they just kept screwing around, whining and bellyaching until, surprise, it's too late.

I also hope that this situation does not go unnoticed by the Democrats. They seem every bit as daft as the GOP, but I still maintain hope they are huddled in their impotent minority working real hard on a great plan for 2020. I don't think it's all that likely there's going to be any big turnaround in government, but if there is and the Democrats regain the upper hand in the next couple years, they damn well better have forests worth of productive, cohesive legislation that a) creates positive change in this country and b) gives their president some real first year legs.

If nothing else it's sickening that we have paid all these asshats to do nothing and now, even with the green light, they're doing NOTHING. If I called a major problem to the attention of my manager and seven years later still had no plan to address it I'd be fired and probably functionally blacklisted. These people are like dogs and a squirrel... all they see if the squirrel and they have no idea how long they've been watching it. LOOK AWAY, GO DIG A HOLE OR SOMETHING.

You ain't lying.

[Crazed_Insanity]

to give them some credit, this is a pretty complex problem that probably can't be solved with a partisan solution anyway...

Whatever reason why McCain voted no, I'm encouraged by his perhaps final push for a more bipartisan congress.

[Tom Servo]

Your Trump advisor name is your first pet's name plus the last name of the first Nazi you can think of besides Hitler.

Looks like I'm Georgie Goebbels, everyone.

[drew]

Sonny Himler

[mk]

I don't have a pet.

Magda.

[tigeraid]

Charlie Rommel.

[mk]

Charlie Rommel.

Disagree.

[tigeraid]

And shit, I mis-read the thing. FIRST pet. So it's actually BJ Rommel. :p

[George]

Nah. It's not your pet; it's that Rommel wasn't much of a Nazi, at least from what I've read.

[drew]

Yeah, it's a Bell Curve scale of Nazi-ism level of asshole :)

[George]

https://i.redd.it/fu9z3y2ad5fz.gif

[drew]

Exactly.

But Hillary.... emails, Benghazi, and she wasn't fit for office....


Time to stock up on lead sheets.

[thesameguy]

The two are not mutually exclusive...

[Freude am Fahren]

Okay, trying to think of a name, after seeing other names is tricky, so I'll discount the first two I saw posted.

Holden Heisenberg.

(Okay, that one doesn't fit perfectly on both levels. Holden is my first pet. and Heisenberg being a Nazi, I'm not even sure of, but the only ones I could think of were taken. But if you count my family's first pet, and a true Nazi?...)

Sinda Himler

And just for fun, another one that kinda fits is...

Freckles Megnele

[tigeraid]

Oh, well, yeah okay, I guess the Desert Fox was a bit of an "honourable outlier" kinda German. But come on, he still fought against the Allies, I'll call him a Nazi. :|

[Yw-slayer]

Abby Goring.

[neanderthal]

"If you've ever imagined what you would've done in the civil rights march, you're doing it now. #Charlotte" My favorite tweet of the ones I saw about the "alt right" march.

[mk]

But come on, he still fought against the Allies, I'll call him a Nazi.

You north americans are so fixated.

[Tom Servo]

As neanderthal pointed out, there is a literal Nazi rally happening in Chartlottesville, VA. Was at UVA last night, followed by what appears to be another march today during the day.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHCaO6rVoAAzCGc.jpg

Everyone's favorite klansman David Duke is there, saying the rally "fulfills the promises of Donald Trump." Somehow, I doubt we'll see a tweet condemning this.

I really don't have much to say other than "what in the actual fuck".

Here's my favorite joke tweet about it though:

https://twitter.com/TheDweck/status/896252016141361154

[MR2 Fan]

Obligatory.....I did Nazi that coming!

[Tom Servo]

Stolen from @JuliusGoat on Twitter, but reprinted because tweet threads are annoying, apropos the Nazi march on UVA last night.



Imagine if these people ever faced actual oppression.

Nobody is trying to legislate away their right to marry.
Nobody is trying to make them buy insurance to pay for 'male health care.'

The law never:
Enslaved their great-grandparents
Robbed their grandparents
Imprisoned their parents
Shot them when unarmed

There is no massive effort at the state and local level to disenfranchise them of the vote.

There is no history of centuries of bad science devoted to 'proving' their intellectual inferiority.

There is no travel ban on them because of their religion.

There is no danger for them when they carry dangerous weapons publicly.

Their churches were never burned.
Their lawns never decorated with burning crosses.
Their ancestors never hung from trees.

Their mothers aren't being torn away by ICE troopers and sent away forever.
They won't be forced to leave the only country they ever knew.

The president has not set up a hotline to report crime committed at their hands.

They are chanting 'We will not be replaced.'
Replaced as...what?
I'll tell you.

Replaced as the only voice in public discussions.
Replaced as the only bodies in the public arena.
Replaced as the only life that matters.

THIS is 'white people' oppression:
We used to be the only voice, Now we hold the only microphone.

THIS is 'white man' oppression:
We face criticism now. We were free from it, because others feared the consequences.

THIS is 'oppression' of white Christians in this country.
Christmas used to be the only holiday acknowledged, now it's not.

I would so love to see these people get all the oppression they insist they receive, just for a year. Just to see.

Give them a world where you ACTUALLY can't say Christmas.
A world where the name "Geoff" on a resume puts it in the trash.

Give them a world where they suddenly get a 20% pay cut, and then 70 women every day tell them to smile more.

Give them a world where their polo shirt makes people nervous, so they're kicked off the flight from Pittsburgh to Indianapolis.

Give them a world where they inherited nothing but a very real understanding of what oppression really fucking is.

Give them a world where if they pulled up on a campus with torches lit and started throwing hands, the cops would punch their eyes out.

Put THAT in your Tiki torches and light it, you sorry Nazi bitches.

Good morning, by the way, how is everybody.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hitler promised to help make Germany great again in a down turn, it was an appealing message to enough Germans.

Likewise, enough Americans found Trumps message appealing. Sad and unfortunate, but I think it's understandable... If we're all well off, protectionism wouldn't kick in...

Anyway, so there's a nazi rally... And violence again broke out.

Should freedom of speech be allowed for the Nazis? Or must we physically shut them up? Sigh...

[neanderthal]

Stolen from @JuliusGoat on Twitter, but reprinted because tweet threads are annoying, apropos the Nazi march on UVA last night.

Brilliant.

[Tom Servo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHCp5h3XsAE90AS.jpg:large

[The359]

And now some asshole drove full speed into a crowd of anti-Nazi protestors. :(

[Tom Servo]

Well, dear leader's been happy to immediately call that out as terrorism when it happens in places like London. I hope he'll do the same here. His earlier tweet was basically that Pepsi ad from a few months back, and certainly not nearly as harsh as his tweets about, say, SNL or the NY Times.

[Tom Servo]

One confirmed dead after someone drove his Charger through the crowd.

[Tom Servo]

And dear leader both managed to try to say that people protesting Nazis are just as bad as Nazis and also brag about himself when it comes to unemployment numbers.

This is fucking disgusting. It's horrifying. Trump refuses to condemn white supremacists, and it appears to be the ONLY GROUP OF PEOPLE he'll mince words about. No words about someone purposely running people down with their car when he was tweeting within minutes when it's happened elsewhere.

I feel sick.

[drew]

Well, dear leader's been happy to immediately call that out as terrorism when it happens in places like London. I hope he'll do the same here. His earlier tweet was basically that Pepsi ad from a few months back, and certainly not nearly as harsh as his tweets about, say, SNL or the NY Times.

Nope! Unless it was a brown-skinned person driving. But considering which group he took aim at, I'd be very surprised.

He's an absolute joke.

[MR2 Fan]

Where's the Blues Bros when we need them?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTT1qUswYL0

[Tom Servo]

I'm really afraid that this is the day that we all worried about. The day where literal fucking Nazis walked the streets, one of them ran down a group of counter-protesters, killing one of them, and our President can only "blame all sides".

Our. President. Is. Unwilling. To. Say. Anything. Bad. About. Nazis.

Fuck.

[Crazed_Insanity]

All sides specifically exclude nazis? Why? What about KKK?

When a bunch of white dudes are gathering to have them a white pride parade, I don't know about you, I would stay the hell away!

[neanderthal]

All sides specifically exclude nazis? Why? What about KKK?

When a bunch of white dudes are gathering to have them a white pride parade, I don't know about you, I would stay the hell away!

In other words it's the lady's fault who was run over, her dumb ass shouldn't have been protesting the Nazis?


You're a fuckwit billi.

Fuckwits like you who don't have the courage to do the right thing at the right moment are the reason why this country, this world, is the way it is.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

[neanderthal]

Don't bother responding because I will literally tell you to fuck off.

[The359]

This also wasn't a white pride parade, but...

[Jason]

Annnnnnnd he's finally going on my block list. I just can't.

[Yw-slayer]

http://amp.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/in_his_speech_on_charlottesville_donald_trump_told _the_nation_exactly_what.html

[Tom Servo]

Okay, I broke my rule. The mind is strong, but the flesh is weak, I want to see what horseshit he's posted.



When a bunch of white dudes are gathering to have them a white pride parade, I don't know about you, I would stay the hell away!


I fucking dare you to claim I mis-quoted you when I say you victim blame. Do it. I dare you.

[neanderthal]

In August 2016 Hillary Clinton TOLD US (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/25/hillary-clinton-alt-right-racism-speech-donald-trump-nevada) that Donnie was getting in bed with a bad crowd of people.

But her emails.
She's untrustworthy.
We don't want a dynasty.
Benghazi.


Here we are.

[neanderthal]

And Don don is talking about the many sides. Sorry don-don, there's the American side, and the Nazis; pick your side.

[neanderthal]

Okay, I broke my rule. The mind is strong, but the flesh is weak, I want to see what horseshit he's posted.



I fucking dare you to claim I mis-quoted you when I say you victim blame. Do it. I dare you.

He's not even going to apologise.


Never mind that errbody tellin him he ain't right and whatever. We're all wrong, and he's right.

[Tom Servo]

He's not even going to apologise.


Never mind that errbody tellin him he ain't right and whatever. We're all wrong, and he's right.

Well, yeah, she shouldn't have dressed like that if she didn't want that to happen, much less be in that neighborhood.

[Tom Servo]

I like that Obama quoted Mandela today.



No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.

[neanderthal]

I like that Obama quoted Mandela today.

:up:

I had to go home the day I heard he died. It hit me really hard.

[speedpimp]

Hershey Himmler

[G'day Mate]

Actually I don't think racism is learnt, I think it's a natural consequence of the kind of non-diverse environments some people are brought up in. BUT (big but) society as a whole knows better now, so the people who cling to those "instincts" are making a choice beyond a certain point. Racism is the easy answer stemming from group-think, fear of exclusion, confirmation bias, imgroup vs. outgroup whateverness. None of that's an excuse - they should know better and perhaps just need their horizons broadened.

And then there's your typical cunt ...

[Freude am Fahren]

But isn't that still considered "learnt"? It may not be tought explicitly, but you are still taking the cue from what is around you.

Hypothetically, I think someone raised in an all singular race village with no contact with other races, but at the same time, no explicit racist teachings would probably still be a more likely racist than someone raised in complete isolation.

[mk]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/03/boy-asks-haircut-like-friend-teacher-cant-tell-apart/

[sandydandy]

After seeing what's going on in Virginia, I can only say I'm happy to live in Canada. Though there's no shortage of Nazi sympathizers here. But mostly confined to the internet as trollish keyboard warriors.

[thesameguy]

Prejudice - beliefs or opinions not founded in reason - is instinctual. We're prejudiced about bears, heavy objects, and people that look different. Prejudice helps keep people alive when there is insufficient direct knowledge to make a decision.

Racism - an enforced weighting of one group of people over another - is acquired. Racism is a construct of human intellect designed to justify mistreatment or oppression a group of people and works in the face of direct counter-knowledge.

Prejudice - especially Untested or unevaluated prejudice - might lead to racism, but they aren't inexorably linked. That's arguably less true in the past, where someone who looked different could be perceived as legitimately different, but through the miracle of science we now know that regardless of appearances, people are all essentially the same on the inside. We all taste like chicken. There is no defense for racism today. Prejudice is probably fair, but racism is fucking retarded.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, I broke my rule. The mind is strong, but the flesh is weak, I want to see what horseshit he's posted.



I fucking dare you to claim I mis-quoted you when I say you victim blame. Do it. I dare you.

Swervo, you only missed quoted couple of sentences in the beginning of my post.

I was mainly trying to illustrate the point of blaming all sides, not just a specific victim. So if you apply what I said for that victim, for sure you're right that it's victim blaming too.

Not really a Trump supporter, but he's right that there are plenty of hate coming from all sides. We shouldn't have a white rally in the 1st place, and nobody really should attend any of these rallies for whatever reasons. This was not meant to victim blame, but should be common sense. but this is a free country I guess...

Lastly, it not like trump has never denounced kkk before. As stupid as he is, I doubt he'll cozy up with the white supremacists... Anyway, we'll see.

[G'day Mate]

I see racism as a specific type/subset of prejudice, not that they are two things of different magnitude.

Prejudice is a very general term:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw

[thesameguy]

I see racism as a specific type/subset of prejudice, not that they are two things of different magnitude.

There is no magnitude. They are different things, with different psychological roots, and different societal outcomes. There only relationship they have is that racism may involve prejudice (it also may not, although as I mentioned earlier that's a really hard stance to defend today).

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism

Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/prejudice

Preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

[G'day Mate]

Did Trump tweet that "many sides" nonsense or did it come out his mouth? If it was a tweet it's gone now.

Covfefe

[Tom Servo]

I thought it was a tweet, but having a hard time finding it now.

[MR2 Fan]

while it's very sad that there was so much death and destruction at this rally, can I say that it may be something to distract Trump away from North Korea for now? He really has the attention span of a goldfish, so maybe this will at least ease tension on that part of the world for now....until NK does something else stupid at least.

[The359]

Did Trump tweet that "many sides" nonsense or did it come out his mouth? If it was a tweet it's gone now.

Covfefe

He said it at a news conference. He then followed by mentioning himself, Barack Obama, and then refusing to answer questions because he was in the middle of a publicity legislation signing.

[G'day Mate]

Ah ok fair enough. Typical.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lVjCW2jHHU23f2/giphy.gif

[Jason]

His tweet was just something like 'I'm doing things and stuff... but C'ville bad!'

[Alan P]

Why the scariest nuclear threat could be from within the Whitehouse.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07/department-of-energy-risks-michael-lewis

Amazing and worrying. I had no idea.

[thesameguy]

The lack of understanding of how things work by Trump's staff is astounding. They clearly watched the highlight reel, but all that stuff that makes everything work for the vast majority of people is just completely off the radar. Admittedly, one thing I really liked about Trump's campaign was the whole "drain the swamp" thing (which turned out to be lies, but was nonetheless appealing) but I personally never appreciated exactly what that entailed. Having been on the receiving side of several corporate acquisitions you'd think I'd have a better appreciation for the task of explaining to the new people what the old people do and how insane it would be to scale that to government levels, but it seriously never occurred to me.

What's particularly scary about Right Now, is that Trump brought in a bunch of outside people who are not interested in or are opposed to much of how the government works. The only point of interest appears to be cronyism, not actually running a country. Hell, not even running a business. It's like they bought the retail presence but forgot that R&D, distribution, sales, and accounting are part of the deal.

[Fogelhund]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/346491-trump-considers-pardoning-sheriff-joe-arpaio-report

President Trump told Fox News he is “seriously considering” a pardon for Joe Arpaio, the controversial former sheriff of Maricopa Country, Ariz.

Arpaio was found guilty of criminal contempt last month after he was ordered to stop racially profiling Latinos in his Maricopa County office.

“I am seriously considering a pardon for Sheriff Arpaio,” Trump told Fox News at his Bedminster, N.J., golf club, where he had been staying during a vacation.

“He has done a lot in the fight against illegal immigration. He’s a great American patriot and I hate to see what has happened to him.”

Arpaio has been an outspoken opponent of illegal immigration and used aggressive tactics as sheriff that landed him in court, including pulling over Latinos that he suspected were in the country illegally.

The former sheriff endorsed Trump last year and appeared with him on the campaign trail.