Politics

[Alan P]

The lack of understanding of how things work by Trump's staff is astounding. They clearly watched the highlight reel, but all that stuff that makes everything work for the vast majority of people is just completely off the radar. Admittedly, one thing I really liked about Trump's campaign was the whole "drain the swamp" thing (which turned out to be lies, but was nonetheless appealing) but I personally never appreciated exactly what that entailed. Having been on the receiving side of several corporate acquisitions you'd think I'd have a better appreciation for the task of explaining to the new people what the old people do and how insane it would be to scale that to government levels, but it seriously never occurred to me.

What's particularly scary about Right Now, is that Trump brought in a bunch of outside people who are not interested in or are opposed to much of how the government works. The only point of interest appears to be cronyism, not actually running a country. Hell, not even running a business. It's like they bought the retail presence but forgot that R&D, distribution, sales, and accounting are part of the deal.

Many people in that swamp were there because they were very well qualified. Obama really made sure the right people were mostly in the right places where they could do the best. Trump doesn't seem to know what he's doing and neither do any of his staff. At any level.

[MR2 Fan]

some temporary good news

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/346566-north-korea-backs-off-guam-missile-threat-report

[Godson]

Damn good news.

[The359]

The problem is, Trump is just going to milk this as a victory.

[neanderthal]

He needs another distraction from his taxes. here comes an invasion of Venezuela.

[G'day Mate]

Conservapedia are claiming it as a Trump victory (and blaming Obama for the problem in the same breath of course)

[Yw-slayer]

Conservapedia are claiming it as a Trump victory (and blaming Obama for the problem in the same breath of course)

I've started a Trump-loving Twitter account as a parody. The problem is that I am physically revulsed by the thought of typing moronic crap on the internet.

[mk]

Damn good news.

Are you sure?

Buying time is another perspective.

[21Kid]

The problem is, Trump is just going to milk this as a victory.
Of course... :smh: And his loyalists wouldn't see it any other way. Because he said he's right.

[MR2 Fan]

Trump loyalists can say whatever....his approval rating will be under 30% soon and the GOP will start to get more nervous

[tigeraid]

Just getting caught up on the news about Charlottesville. Jesus Christ.

As a Canadian living in a small hotbed of Ontarian white supremacy, I worry for the future.

[MR2 Fan]

apparently, reading Twitter, Trump just had a news conference where he defended the protestors, Robert E. Lee, Nazis and anyone else on the "right"....and then proceeded to villify the "left".

I guess I'll watch it tonight....but seems like he's finally come completely unhinged! this is a great turning point because the GOP will HAVE to run far away from him now

[21Kid]

Oh, so it was just the running over people part that he was condemning yesterday? :smh:

JFC


Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa

[thesameguy]

Probably an overstatement, but it was indeed a clusterfuck. He went back to "bad people on both sides" but added "some nationalists are fine people" and tried to explain why Robert E. Lee is effectively the same as Washington or Jefferson. It's not so much that he's become unhinged, but he's having a hard time rationalizing his narcissism and condemning people he perceives as his supporters. Quite a train wreck.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just to be clear that I'm not a white supremacist sympathizer nor am I a Trump supporter..., they are clearly problematic. No argument there.

However, the 'right' is not the only cancer growing in American politics. There's a twin cancer developing... Antifa is a leftist group ready to violently clash with the white supremacists.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831

Hate will only beget more hate. If we don't somehow contain this, this great nation of ours will self destruct thanks to these 2 terrorist groups without any need of nuclear missiles coming from NK or anywhere else...

[MR2 Fan]

trust me Billi, everyone knows where you stand on things!

[thesameguy]

Just to be clear that I'm not a white supremacist sympathizer nor am I a Trump supporter..., they are clearly problematic. No argument there.

However, the 'right' is not the only cancer growing in American politics. There's a twin cancer developing... Antifa is a leftist group ready to violently clash with the white supremacists.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831

Hate will only beget more hate. If we don't somehow contain this, this great nation of ours will self destruct thanks to these 2 terrorist groups without any need of nuclear missiles coming from NK or anywhere else...

You're not wrong.


However, as their name indicates, Antifa focuses more on fighting far-right ideology than encouraging pro-left policy.

Unlike the mainstream left, they do not seek to gain power through traditional channels - winning elections and passing bills into law.

Antifa is anti-government and anti-capitalist, and their methodologies are often perceived as more closely aligned with anarchists than the mainstream left.

Antifa does not shy away from militant protest methods, including the destruction of property and sometimes physical violence.

It is, I suppose, a natural and expected response to this anachronistic nationalist movement, but I'm personally not willing to summarily reject the idea of government or capitalism yet, and I suspect neither are most people. Working for change outside the system - whether in pursuit of anarchy or just using anarchistic methodologies - just can't be good for society. I guess I may approve of their ends, but it's pretty tough to justify their means.

[MR2 Fan]

I don't know much about Anti-fa but they do seem like anarchist and just using the term "anti-fa" in a similar way as the "alt-right"...to soften the reality of who they really are.

Having said that, I don't think anti-fa has a larger group of support to their cause the way the "alt-right" does.

[thesameguy]

I don't know the specifics, but Antifa ("Anti Fascist") is a global movement and "alt-right" is essentially domestic. Since Antifa is in the vein of Anonymous - a loose collective - and "alt-right" isn't any sort of formal group at all it'd be tough to compare memberships. I think some of the best estimates would be based on places "these people" go - like Storm Front vs. It's Going Down. No idea what those numbers look like, but after last weekend I'll bet it's going to change dramatically.

What makes me the saddest about both this yin and yang is that they are strong indications that the government is letting people down. We should look on secret, extremist groups with disdain instead of thinking they might make sense, or they're not entirely wrong. FFS, Antifa's origins are in pre-Nazi Germany... we shouldn't need something like that in 2017, in America. That's pathetic. If it's truly of the people, by the people, for the people then solutions should be ready and available through government. I strongly agree they're likely not.. I'm just not willing to throw in the towel yet. I do hope the powers that be come to their sense real soon. I'd really like to finish the Viggen's top before I have to punch a klansman.

[neanderthal]

Back when Herr Drumpf was elected I wrote a post to Trump voters saying basically that regardless of why they voted for him they were ok with racism. It was far more eloquent than that. But, never mind.

Here we are. :popcorn:

[Tom Servo]

Jim Jeffries weighin' in.

https://twitter.com/jefferiesshow/status/897611670062637056

[Godson]

Are you sure?

Buying time is another perspective.

Cuban missle crisis was another serious scenario in which buying time de-escalated the scenario.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, I saw something like "Just because you support Trump doesn't mean you are a racist, but it means it's not a deal breaker, which is kinda the same thing."

[George]

Back when Herr Drumpf was elected I wrote a post to Trump voters saying basically that regardless of why they voted for him they were ok with racism. It was far more eloquent than that. But, never mind.

I remember that post well. I was still in shock from voting for a Democrat. It made me feel okay.

[Yw-slayer]

TRUMP: Mexicans are bad
TRUMP: Muslims are bad
TRUMP: Media are bad
EVERYONE: what about Nazis
TRUMP: let's not single anyone out

[novicius]

It's unfortunate but David Duke is not wrong: White America voted for Trump (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-couldnt-win-over-white-women/). Voter suppression is alive and well, and where White America goes, we all follow.

Thankfully resistance efforts are taking root in pro-Trump country — and women are leading the charge. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/resistance-efforts-are-taking-root-in-pro-trump-country--and-women-are-leading-the-charge/2017/08/14/91e69daa-7874-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.3a03a3b6e394) :up: :up:

[Tom Servo]

"What do the white nationalists actually want?"

Angry White Boys (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450501/white-nationalists-alt-right-vague-grievances-what-do-they-want)

[Tom Servo]

Also, in other Trump criticizes Trump news, this tweet from 5 years ago.



One of the hardest jobs in politics must be cleaning up after @JoeBiden gaffes. I feel sorry for his spokespeople.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/236107831647027200

[Crazed_Insanity]

TRUMP: Mexicans are bad
TRUMP: Muslims are bad
TRUMP: Media are bad
EVERYONE: what about Nazis
TRUMP: let's not single anyone out

Yeah, that's was really funny...

He usually just shoots from the hip, but in this case, he all of a sudden needs to take his time and examine all the evidences and get the facts straight...

What really is the value of asking him to denounce these groups? I think his numerous denouncements were all pretty meaningless.

I'm beginning to think that in times like these, we need to restrict freedom of speech.

All Nazi related stuffs need to be banned, whether it's flags or solutes or whatever... these things are now equivalent of screaming 'FIRE' in a crowded theater. Plus, we freaking fought a war against the Nazis, right? Couldn't we arrest Nazis as enemy of the state and send them to Cuba or something?

Anyway, likewise with confederate flags and KKK outfits.

Flaming touches should just be banned out of fire safety reasons.

Rather than asking politicians to call them out after the fact, they really need to denounce them NOW.

You may have your white rallies, but those offensive things can no longer be acceptable. If you show up to a rally like a Nazi or KKK, blue lives should crack down on them as if those white lives don't matter. Don't give the leftwing extremists any reasons to start any clashes.

If we continue on as is, civil war will probably happen before nuke war from NK.

[Tom Servo]

Looks like he just yanked out the power cord when he realized he was losing at Mario Kart.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHXfnmYUAAAJuX0.jpg:large

Rumor has it that Kushner got a call informing him that the vast majority of other CEOs were quitting en masse, so this appears to be a "You can't quit, you're fired!" tweet.

[The359]

What really is the value of asking him to denounce these groups? I think his numerous denouncements were all pretty meaningless.

He built a campaign based on bashing the previous president over his terminology of Islamic terrorists. His followers perpetuated the lie that Obama was a Muslim or a Muslim sympathizer. Do you not see the hypocracy in this fact?

[Crazed_Insanity]

He built a campaign based on bashing the previous president over his terminology of Islamic terrorists. His followers perpetuated the lie that Obama was a Muslim or a Muslim sympathizer. Do you not see the hypocracy in this fact?

Isn't it obvious that he is a hypocrite?

You really think I do not know that?

Has any of his past denouncements discouraged these groups from supporting him? No, I don't think so.

That's why I thought it's all pretty meaningless.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent.fash1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20840616_10155892293709305_322779836554715424_n.jp g?oh=d4b0a43364a5917e957b61f1c191e6ac&oe=5A29E96C

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent.fash1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20799006_1354736434625270_3215951699909675176_n.jp g?oh=b3141033bf0e6c78ae0ad9f2a077464d&oe=5A314EF8

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://scontent.fash1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20840616_10155892293709305_322779836554715424_n.jp g?oh=d4b0a43364a5917e957b61f1c191e6ac&oe=5A29E96C



Don't morally justify your hatred.

Swastika use is on the rise, but it's mostly due to ignorance. Not because these people are real Nazis.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/13/swastika-use-rise-nazis-trump-charlottesville-violence/104488402/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories
Also, there's a difference between wanting somebody die and actually killing somebody.

We 'violently' fought the real Nazis because they were actually carrying out these hate crimes. That's real self defense.

Violently fighting somebody waving a Nazi flag now is not really self defense. Teaching him a lesson maybe.

Now, is that the only way to teach the ignorant? Or do we have other options?

We don't beat up kids at schools right? I really don't think beating up someone is the best way to teach anyone.

I don't need any terrorist groups to defend me. Thanks but no thanks. I can fight my own battles.

[Tom Servo]

I don't think I saw this posted. Vice had a reporter embedded with the alt-right/white nationalists/nazis/whatever you want to call them from before the initial torch march and on through the terrorist attack.

It's worth watching just to get a closer view. There is some pretty graphic footage of the terrorist attack which I personally found really hard to watch, but am glad that I watched the video overall.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow.

The leaders in the film are for sure real Nazis and don't even think Trump is good enough for them because his daughter married a Jew!

I guess the Antifa wasn't so bad..., all they were doing was just throwing piss and spraying mace... not doing anything lethal, but still not a very smart move considering how many guns these Nazis have...

There were also white supremacists from Canada showing up there... These rallies are now attracting Nazi's everywhere I guess.

People seriously need to stay the hell away from these rallies.

Someday, a white supremacist is going to die... and not only Antifa, but also BLM will be painted as a terrorist group too and all hell will break loose.

You know, if I were a foreign entity, whether Russia, China, terrorists cells, wishing to cripple America, I know I can't fight against USA's military and economical might, so meddling with its election results and fanning the flame of race relations should be able to see America self destruct.

I sincerely hope we won't end up like Syria... then the wall built by Mexico will be able to keep the American refugees out. Canada will wish that they built a wall.

Violence won't solve problems.

Even WWII didn't really solve the Nazi problem.

Hate will only beget more hate.

[thesameguy]

Someday, a white supremacist is going to die... and not only Antifa, but also BLM will be painted as a terrorist group too and all hell will break loose.

A conversation at work drew the same conclusion. Even if the government doesn't come down on Antifa et al, the problem will be these white fuckers will change their plan from a show of force to a demonstration of force. It's a legitimate powder keg, and the government needs to unequivocally state these people have zero support from any legitimate organization. They need to know they're alone and there is no hope for success. If you want to be a white supremacist, fine, just do it somewhere else.

[MR2 Fan]

I never feed troll accounts on comments sections, FB and twitter, etc. though today I had an idea that I really wanted to post.....the de-motivational quote (and poster): "It could be the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others", though most are probably too stupid to understand what it means

[G'day Mate]

Those tiki torches are so lame :lol:

[Phil_SS]

I came out the exact opposite reaction. The torches are terrifying to me.

And I agree with one thing that guy said in the video. The amount of restraint shown by his group was remarkable. If these events keep happening there will be a massacre like not seen before. IMO, it is not a question of if but when.

[Yw-slayer]

I thought the torches are meant to be a symbolic link with the KKK, not Pacific Islander culture.

[Godson]

At first it was terrifying to me. Then I thought, "these mfers don't even know how to make a real torch."

Then it pissed me off.

[Yw-slayer]

Why didn't they order them off taobao? :lol:

[neanderthal]

Germans really DO have a word for everything.



"Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed.

That word is Nazi. Nobody cares about their motives anymore."

Stolen from twitter

[novicius]

:lol: :up:

Chris Rock had a good tweet yesterday:


If 10 guys thinks it's ok to hang with 1 Nazi then they just became 11 Nazis. Alt right / white supremacist it's just nazis. Fuck Nazis.
<3<3<3 :lol: :up: <3<3<3

[FaultyMario]

Nafta renegotiation round 1 is currently ongoing.

How many jobs related to continental trade were created in the last 20 years versus those that became obsolete because of it?

[George]

Chris Rock might make a good president. He says things that are straight-forward and easily understandable.

How about Chris Rock vs. Kid Rock in 2020?

Just imagine the debates!

[novicius]

From @PhilodoxPils (https://twitter.com/philodoxpils)


Nazis: Let's commit genocide.
Antifa: Let's not.
BLM: Please stop shooting us.
Centrist: I cannot tell these apart.
It really is this simple, any other quibbles are rearranging deck chairs on the Titantic. :smh:

[21Kid]

Yeah, I couldn't believe the "They're all equal" comments...

So, they should just all sit there and let you kill them?

[thesameguy]

Yeah, I couldn't believe the "They're all equal" comments...

So, they should just all sit there and let you kill them?

I enjoyed Krauthammer's points on Fox News...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNfsRUveezs

It's about 4:11.

Also this, at about 18:10


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4pfuDoizSA

[Crazed_Insanity]

From @PhilodoxPils (https://twitter.com/philodoxpils)
Nazis: Let's commit genocide.
Antifa: Let's not.
BLM: Please stop shooting us.
Centrist: I cannot tell these apart.

Nazis: Let's commit genocide.
Antifa: Let's kill all Nazis and anyone who don't agree with us, if you're not with us, you must be a Nazi!
BLM: Please stop shooting us.
Centrist(Billi): I can't believe Nazis and Antifa still exist today?!?!?!?!? WTF?

When push comes to shove, BLM joins forces with Antifa because there's no way they'll join the Nazis... and Trump ultimately succumbs to the Nazi side of the force and declares martial law and becomes a genuine dictator and turn blue lives storm troopers into Nazis too... and I think that's probably when Jesus will return to clean things up and reboots the Matrix.

[Tom Servo]

So, today he tweeted this:


Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/898254409511129088

He's mentioned this before as well, during the campaign. It appears to be in relation to a myth that started circulating around 2001, that Pershing rounded up a bunch of Muslims, had 50 bullets dipped in pig's blood, shot 49 of them, and then told the last one to go back to all the other Muslims and tell them what happened. When he talked about this during the campaign, it only worked for 25 years, so it became 10 years better in the interim.

The fact that this appears to have never happened is what people seem to be focusing on, but to me it might be one of the most disgusting things he's said. He's literally endorsing the idea of massacring people while also blaspheming their religion as the right way to combat terrorism.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yep. We absolutely can NOT give Trump the opportunity to blame the "Antifa/BLM terrorists". Don't start or react to any shit at all! Not until we can remove him legally thru impeachment process... or just patiently wait out his term.

I'm telling you guys, once the left starts or reacts with physical violence, we will give him a reason to declare a nation emergency and declare himself a dictator Trump. America will then become the next Nazi regime... and there won't be another USA around to fight against it. Best hope we have is that US police and military will split and end up with another civil war...

Anyway, if Trump will really become the next Hitler, hopefully General Kelly will know what's the right thing to do...

[Drachen596]

All I am going to say is both sides showed up last weekend ready to fight. Its the same shit as thr protests that happened with the various schedule speakers at Berkeley.

As we saw there too police need to do everything to keep the groups separated. The KKK Nazi side is no where near as big as people want to make it out to be.

They just grab a shit ton of media attention anytime they do anything.

[Jason]

One side wants PoC and the disabled dead. And women to only be child bearers. And is willing to use violence to push it.

The other side wants to live, and wants equal rights. And is willing to use violence to defend themselves.

You may see them as equals because violence is in play, but the reality is that the latter doesn't exist if not for the former. But hey, let's continue the false equivalency.

[Drachen596]

Never said one side was right or wrong. I said they both showed up looking for a fight and found it.

It just seems like the physical violence at the events is fairly new. I cant say which side is actually starting it at the events.

Nazis and the KKK are a bunch of fucking assholes and while they cant be completely ignored should be to some extent. Like a child throwing a tantrum.

The US will never lean that far. We have for sure come far enough for that.

[Jason]

The Nazis and the KKK start it by existing and being public with their views. Let's not beat around the bush here.

[Drachen596]

Do you believe that forcibly disbanding them will actually make them disappear?

Afterall some are still in Germany where basically all Nazi symbols are illegal.

[thesameguy]

The Nazis and the KKK start it by existing and being public with their views. Let's not beat around the bush here.

Although free speech and freedom of assembly are important values, it's difficult to extend them to include ideals that half a million Americans died to defeat. Not a single person in this country would tolerate a rally for the Taliban or ISIS cause; not a single person would stand next to someone waving a symbol of either. To think it's okay to stand next to someone waving a Nazi symbol is foolish and wrong. If not yours then someone you know's grandfather died to prevent that symbol from ever arriving on these shores. It's not even remotely ok to insult their memory by allowing it. In the same way I think our freedoms are important and should be defended but maybe not this time I am opposed to militant groups who purport to solve political or social problems but maybe not this time.

[Freude am Fahren]

White supremacist drives into crowd in America: "There's bad people on both sides, gotta get all the facts." (later in the day)

Muslim* drives into crowd in Spain: "Murder a bunch of Muslims to send a message." (Immediately)

*still not confirmed, but evidence suggests.

[21Kid]

Although it could be said that they are inciting violence or threatening people, with their extreme views. And those things are not protected by the first amendment.

[Drachen596]

The only problem with the thought of WW2 fighting to keep the Nazis out of the US?

They were already here. There were various groups supporting Nazis founded in the 30s as Hitler rose in Germany. The groups never really went away they just got smaller and smaller.


You can ban them. I believe there is still a law on the books banning any support for communism that was passed back in the 50s or 60s.

Of course all this is also a very good distraction from the various ongoing investigations into the Russian collusion stuff as well as I thought i saw something about a new email thing related to some dnc it staffers.

[Tom Servo]

Never said one side was right or wrong. I said they both showed up looking for a fight and found it.

Then I'll ask, why bring it up? The only reason I can come up with is to deflect the fact that there were Nazis marching through a town with torches (tiki, yes, but still) and, shockingly, they ended up in scuffles with people who had a problem with this, then one of them murdered one person and injured 19 others with his car.

If you're not trying to make the point that Nazis are no less wrong than people fighting Nazis, what exactly was your point?

[Jason]

Because he heard something about the DNC's email, duh.

[G'day Mate]

Saw this the other day ... I guess this is the place for it

(fast forward to 2:30 if you want to go straight to the good bit)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swcJzacZkWU

[novicius]

Never said one side was right or wrong.
This is why you fail.

[novicius]

White supremacist drives into crowd in America: "There's bad people on both sides, gotta get all the facts." (later in the day)

Muslim* drives into crowd in Spain: "Murder a bunch of Muslims to send a message." (Immediately)

*still not confirmed, but evidence suggests.
Trump dog-whistles like a pro. :smh:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Do you believe that forcibly disbanding them will actually make them disappear?

Afterall some are still in Germany where basically all Nazi symbols are illegal.

That's human nature. We could legally ban green beans... and green beans will all of a sudden become attractive to some people simply because of the ban... not really because they like green beans.

There are Nazi sympathizers in Taiwan, but they're just of bunch of young dumb fucks don't know who they're supporting. I'm pretty sure we have more ignorant people than actual hateful people. However, when we do add in violence in the mix, hatred can easily increase.

Nazis are wrong, just like drugs. However, banning drugs didn't work. Banning Nazism also wouldn't work.

Physical violence also wouldn't work... we can fight multiple wars and win in them convincingly, but they still didn't cure the disease.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Although free speech and freedom of assembly are important values, it's difficult to extend them to include ideals that half a million Americans died to defeat. Not a single person in this country would tolerate a rally for the Taliban or ISIS cause; not a single person would stand next to someone waving a symbol of either. To think it's okay to stand next to someone waving a Nazi symbol is foolish and wrong. If not yours then someone you know's grandfather died to prevent that symbol from ever arriving on these shores. It's not even remotely ok to insult their memory by allowing it. In the same way I think our freedoms are important and should be defended but maybe not this time I am opposed to militant groups who purport to solve political or social problems but maybe not this time.
Emotions are running too high, so I agree there needs to be a temporary lift in freedom of speech.

Under normal circumstances, I think I'd even allow taliban or Isis free speeches rather than just seeing them blow themselves up to deliver their messages..., but when tensions are high, the can't scream fire in a crowded theater rule should apply.

One thing I don't get about modern day nazis is that why didn't they learn from hitler? Do they have a better world domination strategy now? Not even all the white folks are onboard... Can they really do better than hitler... Even with trump?

Or they just wish to live like the Amish in their own walled villages without other races bugging them?

Also, are neo-nazis Christian at all? What do they think of their Jewish Lord?

I know I'm weird, but I find their foolishness kinda fascinating....

Anyway, I still tend to think these are just a bunch of angry white guys letting out their frustrations and not thinking things thru...

[Tom Servo]

And down goes Bannon.

[novicius]

https://media.tenor.com/images/9541febe548f2c9f266c0c5b8a09419d/tenor.gif


EDIT: Journalist Gabriel Sherman sez (https://twitter.com/gabrielsherman/status/898594013409882112):


Bannon friend says Breitbart ramping up for war against Trump. "It's now a Democrat White House," source says.
:lol: :lol: :lol:


This shit is COVFEFE C-O-V-F-E-F-E
:lol: :up:

[thesameguy]

Happened to stumble by Rush this morning on the radio, so I paused for listen. His words: The Democrats have all the power right now. I guess that's the angle to explain the failed (yeah, I'm calling it) GOP presidency.

[MR2 Fan]

Is Hannity his only remaining friend?

[George]

I can't figure out how to make the video appear here, but this is worth watching:

http://digg.com/2017/cnn-trump-4-weeks

Digg's headline to describe this: CNN Scrolls Through A List Of Everything Trump Has Done In The Last 4 Weeks, And Oh Man, This Is Exhausting

[novicius]

Just spitballing here... but do we really have Ivanka to thank for all of this?? :D :up:

[Tom Servo]

Well, Breitbart apparently thinks so. That appears to be the angle they're now pursuing, saying that the White House is now in the hands of the democrats, naming off Kelly, McMaster, Gary Cohn, Jared Kushner, and Ivanka as the cabal of democrats that are seizing power.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ih4jk_o2Bc

General Kelly hasn't resigned nor been fired yet, wonder what's going on. Will he really help right the shit..., no I meant ship?

Anyway, hope Trump will resign or be impeached soon..., but will you guys be okay with Pence? Fingers crossed that guy isn't a Nazi.

[George]

I'm not a Pence fan, but I think he would be competent to carry out the duties of the president and not be ridiculed by Americans and the rest of the world. Certainly people would question and criticize his political positions, as they do with all politicians, but I'd like to think it would get us back to "politics as usual" from this current circus of horrors.

I suggest Trump/Pence = Nixon/Ford in some ways.

I don't think the American public hated Ford (although many did I'm sure for his pardoning Nixon), but he had to lose his re-election bid so people could feel good about not supporting any part of the Nixon "regime". I believe the same will happen if Pence becomes president during Trump's first term and then runs for re-election.

Pence would lose, unless we're involved in foreign ward or other situations in which Americans traditionally don't change horses in midstream (such as Woodrow "he kept us out of war" Wilson in 1916 and George W. Bush post 9/11, to name just two).

So if Trump/Pence = Nixon/Ford, then Carter = ?

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, that's basically what I think about the situation as well. I don't expect a lot of actual general policy to change, and I'll mostly disagree with him and think he's stupid. However, I think he's significantly less likely to get us nuked, and better understands what is and isn't actually legally possible so we'll have fewer blatantly unconstitutional executive orders that will just waste everyone's time until they get tossed out by a federal judge. I also think he'd have less of a boner for undoing everything Obama did simply because Obama did it. I mean, he's so obsessed with that he had the bikeshare station on the WH grounds removed because Obama had it installed.

Pence would be no picnic, but I don't think we'd get any new negatives out of him that we don't already have with Trump.

[Yw-slayer]

Sick burn by Tina Fey.

[Tom Servo]

What Trump says boiled down to an algorithm.

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/6u9xlu/trump_sad_over_removal_of_our_beautiful_statues/dlr6e59/

[drew]

As I've said before, the domestic straight-fucking would still occur with Pence, but I believe he'd receive more respect and less ire from foreign leaders.

...and know how to interact with them.

Trump's an idiot douchebag.

[MR2 Fan]

As I've said before, the domestic straight-fucking would still occur with Pence, but I believe he'd receive more respect and less ire from foreign leaders.

...and know how to interact with them.

Trump's an idiot douchebag.


plus narcissist, sociopath, possible drug user, adulterer, compulsive liar, etc etc

[Jason]

Pence would be able to push his agenda, though. Trump hasn't really accomplished anything. So, I'm not really sure what I'd prefer.

[21Kid]

#sadtruth

[thesameguy]

Pence would be able to push his agenda, though. Trump hasn't really accomplished anything. So, I'm not really sure what I'd prefer.

That really is my deepest concern. Trump is nuts, but Pence is a legit right wing hardcore zealot. He might be scarier.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, I dunno. He was dumb enough to hitch himself to the Trump wagon, he can't be all *that* bright.

[thesameguy]

Unless he's an evil genius and has been the source of all Trump's bad press. Knew he couldn't get a presidential nod, but positioned himself just so, ready for Trump to bail. He got home real quick when Trump lit this last fuse, almost like he wanted to be on hand to take over. He keeps to himself, stays off everyone's radar... just waiting, making like Joe and biden his time.

[Tom Servo]

Okay, so remember that thing I mentioned about his obsession with overturning Obama policies?

He's trying to overturn a rule that would prevent nursing homes from forcing consumers to sign binding arbitration agreements, basically so they can't sue if they're mistreated, they can just go to an arbitration hearing with people hired by the nursing home.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/us/politics/trump-impedes-consumer-lawsuits-against-nursing-homes-deregulation.html

[thesameguy]

Okay, so remember that thing I mentioned about his obsession with overturning Obama policies?

He's trying to overturn a rule that would prevent nursing homes from forcing consumers to sign binding arbitration agreements, basically so they can't sue if they're mistreated, they can just go to an arbitration hearing with people hired by the nursing home.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/us/politics/trump-impedes-consumer-lawsuits-against-nursing-homes-deregulation.html

I don't think it's an obsession per se, I think undoing "stuff Obama did" seems like a slam-dunk to him, and he's not adequately versed in "government" to have policy ideas of his own. He know some major hot-button issues like immigration, tax reform, and ACA, but doesn't have any actual legislative goals. He just busies himself zeroing out the last eight years because those concepts are directly available to him. I have worked with people like him before - people who come in and take over a job but lack any real experience, so they just look at what the person before them did and then do the opposite. It makes them look productive without having to be knowledgable... which, you know, for Trump would be a good approach.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, but even those people generally are willing to keep at least a couple of policies around if everyone else tells them that it was okay.

[The359]

I think that if Pence were to ascend to the Presidency after Trump quits or is ousted, he may not be as much of a potential problem because I don't see him wanting to take on the backlash. He'll probably want to stay out of the spotlight to try and rebuild the administration, meaning he's not going to push as hard on legislation or attempt things he might otherwise attempt if he had been elected from the start.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Or maybe the reverse might happen... Whatever conservative crap he does, will probably be met with much less backlash because they will appear so 'normal' compared to Trump's crap! :lol:

W is looking like a damn fine president now that we have a taste of Trump, right?

[neanderthal]

GOP (or similar) "Removing the statues of the Confederates is erasing history..."

Also GOP (or similar) "Bulldoze through this sacred burial ground to build a pipeline."

[Tom Servo]

GOP (or similar) "Removing the statues of the Confederates is erasing history..."

Also GOP (or similar) "Bulldoze through this sacred burial ground to build a pipeline."

I think even moreso - Trump has claimed that they're tearing down beauty that cannot be replaced, but he's also trying to remove National Monument status from parts of the country that literally cannot be replaced.

[Tom Servo]

A conservative pundit says "I told you so"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/dear-trump-voters-youre-a-bunch-of-idiots

[FaultyMario]

A conservative pundit says "I told you so"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/dear-trump-voters-youre-a-bunch-of-idiots

Yes, I agree, Ben Sasse is the anti-Obama sane republics need.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Never really heard about Sasse til now. Yeah, he looks like a sensible guy...

[neanderthal]

I think that if Pence were to ascend to the Presidency after Trump quits or is ousted, he may not be as much of a potential problem because I don't see him wanting to take on the backlash. He'll probably want to stay out of the spotlight to try and rebuild the administration, meaning he's not going to push as hard on legislation or attempt things he might otherwise attempt if he had been elected from the start.

One would hope so, but this guy is a believer! He is pretty much singularly responsible for an AIDS outbreak and a rise in teenage pregnancies in his home state. He may be far worse than Trump in trying to advance his ideology. Progressive advances will be under attack.

[thesameguy]

One would hope so, but this guy is a believer!

Yeah, he plays it low-key but he is literally on a mission from God. 100% bad news.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I am on a mission from God too, but I don't really share Pence's vision though...

Main stream Christianity may lean toward the conservative side, but I don't believe the real Jesus would join either party. My pastor preaches that Jesus is not a republican nor is he a democrat, heck, he's not even American!

[thesameguy]

Well, then he's not eligible for the presidency. And neither should be Pence. Taking direction from a foreign national is treason.

[Tom Servo]

Stolen from Matthew Yglesias on Twitter:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHnvybYWsAA_rkR.jpg:large

Dearest mother, I fear our cause is lost but whatever may befall me, remember always that it was actually about ethics in games journalism.

[novicius]

<3 <3 <3

[tigeraid]

Dearest mother, I fear our cause is lost but whatever may befall me, remember always that it was actually about ethics in games journalism.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[neanderthal]

I am on a mission from God too, but I don't really share Pence's vision though...

Main stream Christianity may lean toward the conservative side, but I don't believe the real Jesus would join either party. My pastor preaches that Jesus is not a republican nor is he a democrat, heck, he's not even American!

Oooh, I am going to love this.

Please, tell us all how Christianity leans towards the conservative side. Please?

Errbody in the back, ima need you to sit down and be quiet while this gentleman expounds for us.

How exactly does Christianity lean towards the conservative side.

[neanderthal]

Well, then he's not eligible for the presidency. And neither should be Pence. Taking direction from a foreign national is treason.

This.

But Republicans overlook it for politics.

Just as you don't see the fiscal responsibility folks lamenting Dons excessive travels depleting the Secret Service budget.

[21Kid]

Mo... why do you do this to yourself man? :smh: You know he's just going to backtrack and say the exact opposite. Then you're going to get frustrated because he can't put together a sane argument supporting his ideas.


I'll buy you a beer :toast: if you don't read his response.


Secret Service? He's increasing the budget well above that for the military, infrastructure, and healthcare. It's funny how they bemoan it all when the other side is trying to do stuff. But, are okay with it when their benefactors reap the benefits.

[neanderthal]

Mo... why do you do this to yourself man? :smh: You know he's just going to backtrack and say the exact opposite. Then you're going to get frustrated because he can't put together a sane argument supporting his ideas.


I'll buy you a beer :toast: if you don't read his response.


Secret Service? He's increasing the budget well above that for the military, infrastructure, and healthcare. It's funny how they bemoan it all when the other side is trying to do stuff. But, are okay with it when their benefactors reap the benefits.

I was going to ignore it, but one thing I love doing is schooling christians on their christianity. Jesus may not have been a liberal in the literal sense but he espoused many liberal ideas, ideas these so called christians love to overlook. (Note the small C)

It's bad enough its billi, the spouter of all nonsenses, first of his name, but when it comes to Christianity being misappropriated by christians, that riles me.
I will be as civil as I can be.

Until he starts his nonsense.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oooh, I am going to love this.

Please, tell us all how Christianity leans towards the conservative side. Please?

Errbody in the back, ima need you to sit down and be quiet while this gentleman expounds for us.

How exactly does Christianity lean towards the conservative side.

I hope you can read my 'nonsense' carefully without any barriers to distort what I say..., and I hope from my post, you can tell that I don't consider myself a 'mainstream' Christian... that's because based on my interpretation of the Bible, the real Jesus would not lean to either side.

But anyway, to answer you're question, why mainstream Christianity leans conservative? Well, because of the so called 'biblical truth' I think. For the obvious stuffs like abortion rights and gay marriages. Most Christians tend to focus too much on the 'truth' part, but they tend to forget about the 'grace' part. Jesus is the Truth, but scripture is also clear that he is full of grace AND truth. Grace tend to lean on the liberal side... and truth tend to lean on the conservative side. Jesus is both. During his time on earth, he hangs around poor shepherds, fisherman, or whatever sinful hippies... and they all loved him, yet, Jesus didn't become poor and sinful with them... It's the religious conservatives back then that hated Jesus the most and eventually plotted to kill him. Jesus is definitely pro eternal life, but he allows us the choice to reject him if we want. Jesus is also definitely pro-man loving man... and would allow apostle John to lay his head on his chest like lovers while dining with Jesus, but I doubt Jesus actually allowed John to have sex with him... ;)

Anyway, point I'm making is that mainstream christianity in the US are not really representing Jesus Christ... because Jesus was definitely for free healthcare... and he also miraculously generated free wine and food for folks. Something the conservatives tend to conveniently forget about..., but it's understandable I suppose. We humans tend to see our limited resources and forget about being gracious to each other. It also showed how little faith the conservatives have in a supposedly all powerful God.

So if it were a vote between Pence and the atheist Sanders, my vote will be for the atheist... because he is more Christ-like.

[thesameguy]

I don't think Sanders is an atheist... he's "personally spiritual." I don't think I've seen his rejection of a higher power.

I don't think we should let this thread devolve into a religion thread. It's bad enough as it is.

[neanderthal]

I apologise for quoting billi but for claritys sake I have to juxtapose his exact words with my responses, so the contrast is in black and white.I'm going to try and edit it as much as possible by using the spoiler function so you don't blind yourselves with his logical atrocities.


I hope you can read my 'nonsense' carefully without any barriers to distort what I say..., and I hope from my post, you can tell that I don't consider myself a 'mainstream' Christian... that's because based on my interpretation of the Bible, the real Jesus would not lean to either side.


So. Lets start right there. I need concrete examples of what makes you say that Christianity leans to the conservative side.
But, i'll try to work with what you have given me. From my observations of what he said AND what he did, I would argue that Jesus was liberal. No ifs ands or buts. I've bolded the "he" because Christianity is a religion for the followers of Christ. This is important because the gist of my thesis is his actions, his words, what we as Christians are duty bound to emulate.
Sure, there were some conservative leaning things he might have said and done, but the vast majority were progressive/ liberal. Let's use concrete examples, it would be better if we actually quote the scripture, but that would take all day to research everything.


He fed the multitudes.
He fed the multitudes.
(Can we dispense with the "he fed the multitudes" He did it several times.)
He healed the sick
He healed the sick
(Can we dispense with the "he healed the sicks?" He did it multiple times)
He taught the multitudes.
(let's dispense with the multiples and agree he did many liberal things many times.)
He condemned the money lenders.
He clearly separated church and state ("render unto Ceasar what is due Ceasar, and render unto God what is due God.")
He preached tolerance AND acceptance of foreigners: love they neighbour (parable of the Good Samaritan)
He did not condemn those who had sinned
He stated to mindyabidness about the personal lives of others ("let he who is without sin cast the first stone")
He was not a war monger "Blessed are the peacemakers..."
Justice BLACK LIVES MATTER. "Blessed are they that thirst after righeousness, for they shall be filled."
Death penalty "thou shalt not kill."
Mercy "Judge not lest though be judged, for with the same measure will it be given unto you."
My favorite of all, Matthew 22. And he will say to those on his left, "get away from me, I never knew you."
I can go on and on here, but I think we have established some good bonafides for the case that Jesus was more liberal than conservative.




But anyway, to answer you're question, why mainstream Christianity leans conservative? Well, because of the so called 'biblical truth' I think.

You're going to have to be more specific. "Biblical truth" is true for a verse advocating drinking (proverbs 31:7) literally to forget the troubles of the world. Let's be specific. Like I was up there ^.


For the obvious stuffs like abortion rights and gay marriages. Most Christians tend to focus too much on the 'truth' part, but they tend to forget about the 'grace' part.

I really hoped you'd mention this. Feel free to quote us what Jesus said abut homosexuality, gay marriage, etc.


Jesus is the Truth, but scripture is also clear that he is full of grace AND truth. Grace tend to lean on the liberal side... and truth tend to lean on the conservative side.

No. NO. NO. You do not get to say that without giving specific examples. I have given specific, concrete examples above of the liberality of Jesus. You don't come with vague descriptors to say he is conservative. I want a list of specific examples of truth being conservative rather than liberal.


Jesus is both. During his time on earth, he hangs around poor shepherds, fisherman, or whatever sinful hippies... and they all loved him, yet, Jesus didn't become poor and sinful with them...

Um, Jesus was never not poor. He was certainly never wealthy.



It's the religious conservatives back then that hated Jesus the most and eventually plotted to kill him. Jesus is definitely pro eternal life, but he allows us the choice to reject him if we want. Jesus is also definitely pro-man loving man... and would allow apostle John to lay his head on his chest like lovers while dining with Jesus, but I doubt Jesus actually allowed John to have sex with him... ;)

Dafuq? I don't see the point your trying to make or drive at here.


Anyway, point I'm making is that mainstream christianity in the US are not really representing Jesus Christ... because Jesus was definitely for free healthcare... and he also miraculously generated free wine and food for folks. Something the conservatives tend to conveniently forget about...,

Didn't this whole thing start with you saying that Christianity is conservative? What are you saying here? Are you contradicting yourself?


but it's understandable I suppose. We humans tend to see our limited resources and forget about being gracious to each other. It also showed how little faith the conservatives have in a supposedly all powerful God.

Faith is the crux of Christianity. If conservatives are faithless, how are they more christian?


So if it were a vote between Pence and the atheist Sanders, my vote will be for the atheist... because he is more Christ-like.

So Pence, the Republican, the political representative of christians in this conversation, is not Christ like. Exactly what is your point again?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, pretty sure most people don't want to turn this into a religious thread... so let's try to stick to politically related topics.

Pence and the likes of typical American christian conservatives are forgetting about the gracious part of Jesus... and emphasis too much on Jesus being the Truth, Way and Life.

I think we can both agree with the Jesus' graciousness or liberalness...

Regarding examples of Jesus' conservativeness... well, let's take the 2 main commands from Jesus as simple examples.

1) love God
2) love others

Conservatives tend to over emphasize on 1, following God's words as faithfully as possible, but then often end up forgetting about 2. (What, my neighbors have no healthcare? Too bad. We'll pray for them...)
Liberals tend to emphasize on 2 and don't really care that much about 1...

So my ultimate point is that if we can have a Christian Bernie Sanders... or at least some sort of deist Bernie Sanders, he would've been an ideal person to lead this country. Jesus is a guy who combines both 1 and 2 and I personally believe that's what we should emulate. However, if I can only pick one or the other, I would lean toward 2(liberal side)... because we need politicians who actually care about the people... it's suppose to be government of the people anyway... we didn't quite set this country up to be a government of God.

Anyway, and it's unfortunate that american people are becoming more and more polarizing... either toward 1 or toward 2... it's very rare to see true centrists who can appreciate both good conservative and good liberal values at the same time. Often times each side only 'trumps' up their goodness and ignore their weaknesses.

For this country to be great again, right and left hands need to be able to work together.

[neanderthal]

So,in other words, you have no argument at all that buttresses your position that truth and christianity are conservative?

Because you've literally and metaphorically failed to give a single solitary example that supports your claim. A single one. You've stated that


Regarding examples of Jesus' conservativeness... well, let's take the 2 main commands from Jesus as simple examples.

1) love God
2) love others

Conservatives tend to over emphasize on 1, following God's words as faithfully as possible, but then often end up forgetting about 2. (What, my neighbors have no healthcare? Too bad. We'll pray for them...)
Liberals tend to emphasize on 2 and don't really care that much about 1...

But you don't have a single shred of evidence or proof that liberals "don't care about 1." Or that conservatives even follow 1.You haven't demonstrated it, given examples, constructed an argument, formulated a debate, made a single salient point to back up that assertion. Or the one that follows.

Because I can counter with this.

Liberals obedience and love of God is demonstrated by their obeying the second part of that edict; to love their neighbour as they love themselves. They do this when they protest injustice. When they are pro food stamps. When they volunteer at shelters and food kitchens. When they speak out against police brutality, and harsh attitudes about illegal immigration, and discriminatory sentencing, and voting rights, etc. These are things that demonstrate their love of man, and in doing so, their obedience of Gods dictum. When the Bible says faith without works is dead (James 2: 14-26) is implies that a non visible, non demonstrable faith (through the "works" of giving to others of time, talent, money, energy, compassion, kindness, justice, peace, physical needs like food and shelter, etc) is not faith.

Which completely undoes what you just tried, and failed, to say with you own actual example.

So, I ask again; exactly how does modern day conservatism line up more favorably with Gods word than liberalism? Concrete examples. Please.

[drew]

I actually find it fascinating to read it with the spoiler tags. Meaning, reading "Spolier" and not pushing the button.

Mo, keep fighting the good fight, my good sir.

Too bad there's not a purple heart to award for mental wounds received in the war of fuckwittery.

[21Kid]

Too true Drew. (That should be a thing... Like Right said Fred.)
You know he's just going to backtrack and say the exact opposite. Then you're going to get frustrated because he can't put together a sane argument supporting his ideas.


So,in other words, you have no argument at all that buttresses your position that truth and christianity are conservative?

Because you've literally and metaphorically failed to give a single example that supports your claim. A single one. You've stated that

But you don't have a single shred of evidence or proof that liberals "don't care about 1." Or that conservatives even follow 1.You haven't demonstrated it, given examples, constructed an argument, formulated a debate, made a single salient point to back up that assertion. Or the one that follows.

...

Which completely undoes what you just tried, and failed, to say with you own actual example.

So, I ask again; exactly how does modern day conservatism line up more favorably with Gods word than liberalism? [b]Concrete examples.[b] Please.nailed it.

[21Kid]

In more relevant news...How does this guy fail at everything.
https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/chris-traeger-literally.jpg

There's literally only one rule with eclipses: Don't look at the sun during them. Which brings me to the President of the United States:
http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170821151707-donald-trump-eclipse-exlarge-169.jpg

[thesameguy]

Perhaps your not aware, but his orangey power derives directly from his absorption of the sun through his retinas. Human beings shouldn't look at the sun, but Trump quite obviously isn't human.

[drew]

Maybe it's a GOT thing. Maybe he's immune because in his mind he's the Father of the Sun.


Or maybe he's just a fucking dumbass.

[neanderthal]

Too true Drew. (That should be a thing... Like Right said Fred.)nailed it.

It's fucking amazing. You see it. I see it. Drew sees it. Stevie fucking Wonder sees it. Billi? Nope!

[Crazed_Insanity]

So, I ask again; exactly how does modern day conservatism line up more favorably with Gods word than liberalism? Concrete examples. Please.

I don't think you understood me properly yet again. Modern day, or mainstream christian conservatives only 'think' that they are lining up more favorably with God's word than liberals. If they are indeed lining up more favorably with God and His Word, then I'd be lining up with them.

I'm also not lining up with modern day liberals either. Jesus also wasn't into counter protesting against the conservative pharisees, who actually wanted him dead, back in his days. If you truly wish to demonstrate your love for God by obeying Him, then you'll also have to learn to try to love your conservative neighbors also. If you can do that, then you are truly christ-like. I'd not only line up with the liberals, but also vote for you for whatever public office! :)

[neanderthal]

Mo... why do you do this to yourself man? :smh: You know he's just going to backtrack and say the exact opposite. Then you're going to get frustrated because he can't put together a sane argument supporting his ideas.


It's like you're the billie whisperer. You nailed that thing like Randy Johnson nailed that pigeon in that one game


I am on a mission from God too, but I don't really share Pence's vision though...

Main stream Christianity may lean toward the conservative side, but I don't believe the real Jesus would join either party. My pastor preaches that Jesus is not a republican nor is he a democrat, heck, he's not even American!


I hope you can read my 'nonsense' carefully without any barriers to distort what I say..., and I hope from my post, you can tell that I don't consider myself a 'mainstream' Christian... that's because based on my interpretation of the Bible, the real Jesus would not lean to either side.

But anyway, to answer you're question, why mainstream Christianity leans conservative? Well, because of the so called 'biblical truth' I think. For the obvious stuffs like abortion rights and gay marriages. Most Christians tend to focus too much on the 'truth' part, but they tend to forget about the 'grace' part. Jesus is the Truth, but scripture is also clear that he is full of grace AND truth. Grace tend to lean on the liberal side... and truth tend to lean on the conservative side. Jesus is both. During his time on earth, he hangs around poor shepherds, fisherman, or whatever sinful hippies... and they all loved him, yet, Jesus didn't become poor and sinful with them... It's the religious conservatives back then that hated Jesus the most and eventually plotted to kill him. Jesus is definitely pro eternal life, but he allows us the choice to reject him if we want. Jesus is also definitely pro-man loving man... and would allow apostle John to lay his head on his chest like lovers while dining with Jesus, but I doubt Jesus actually allowed John to have sex with him... ;)

Anyway, point I'm making is that mainstream christianity in the US are not really representing Jesus Christ... because Jesus was definitely for free healthcare... and he also miraculously generated free wine and food for folks. Something the conservatives tend to conveniently forget about..., but it's understandable I suppose. We humans tend to see our limited resources and forget about being gracious to each other. It also showed how little faith the conservatives have in a supposedly all powerful God.

So if it were a vote between Pence and the atheist Sanders, my vote will be for the atheist... because he is more Christ-like.


[spoiler]Anyway, pretty sure most people don't want to turn this into a religious thread... so let's try to stick to politically related topics.

Pence and the likes of typical American christian conservatives are forgetting about the gracious part of Jesus... and emphasis too much on Jesus being the Truth, Way and Life.

I think we can both agree with the Jesus' graciousness or liberalness...

Regarding examples of Jesus' conservativeness... well, let's take the 2 main commands from Jesus as simple examples.

1) love God
2) love others

Conservatives tend to over emphasize on 1, following God's words as faithfully as possible, but then often end up forgetting about 2. (What, my neighbors have no healthcare? Too bad. We'll pray for them...)
Liberals tend to emphasize on 2 and don't really care that much about 1...

So my ultimate point is that if we can have a Christian Bernie Sanders... or at least some sort of deist Bernie Sanders, he would've been an ideal person to lead this country. Jesus is a guy who combines both 1 and 2 and I personally believe that's what we should emulate. However, if I can only pick one or the other, I would lean toward 2(liberal side)... because we need politicians who actually care about the people... it's suppose to be government of the people anyway... we didn't quite set this country up to be a government of God.

Anyway, and it's unfortunate that american people are becoming more and more polarizing... either toward 1 or toward 2... it's very rare to see true centrists who can appreciate both good conservative and good liberal values at the same time. Often times each side only 'trumps' up their goodness and ignore their weaknesses.

For this country to be great again, right and left hands need to be able to work together.

It's a triumph of Trumpian logic contained in a circus, run by clowns, overseen by monkeys, tripping on acid made by clownfish, who live in an aquarium filled with pure alcohol, made by distilling all the waste and filth of the earth, and purifying it with 100% pure yak bullshit. Or something like that.

He literally starts by saying christianity is more conservative, and ends up by concluding the very opposite. And that's his actual argument. All that verbosity is him defending his thesis. And at no point is there a "oh, wait, this isn't saying what I want it to say" moment, a light bulb moment, a eureka moment. It's a trainwreck of words smashed into a shit sandwich and presented as a debate.

I can't. I just can't. :smh: :eek: :angry:

Except, I just did. :(

[FaultyMario]

What happened to the Billi spoilers?

Give back that purple heart, boy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

He literally starts by saying christianity is more conservative, and ends up by concluding the very opposite. And that's his actual argument. All that verbosity is him defending his thesis. And at no point is there a "oh, wait, this isn't saying what I want it to say" moment, a light bulb moment, a eureka moment. It's a trainwreck of words smashed into a shit sandwich and presented as a debate...

This is how I started out. You are latching on to the former, whereas my point is about the later bolded part.



Main stream Christianity may lean toward the conservative side, but I don't believe the real Jesus would join either party. My pastor preaches that Jesus is not a republican nor is he a democrat, heck, he's not even American!

Politics as usually resulted in Trump and Hillary. Neither will make American great again... nor will America be better because we're just not together.

[neanderthal]

This is how I started out. You are latching on to the former, whereas my point is about the later bolded part.



Politics as usually resulted in Trump and Hillary. Neither will make American great again... nor will America be better because we're just not together.

So, you're saying christianity is conservative but Jesus is liberal?

Because Christianity is the followers of Christ. And if Christ is liberal then how is Christianity, following Christ, conservative?

[21Kid]

Exactly. :lol:

[drew]

whatthefuck²

[novicius]

Why did Trump flip-flop on Afghanistan? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/08/22/why-did-trump-flip-flop-on-afghanistan/?utm_term=.139badfb64ff)


The second factor is one that I have been hammering again and again, but it bears repeating: Trump is an exceptionally weak commander in chief.

He lacks the gravitas and expertise to countermand his military advisers, even when his instincts push him in that direction. Trump also lacks any civilian staffers with the knowledge and wherewithal to put an unconventional solution onto the table. Steve Bannon apparently backed a hare-brained scheme to outsource the war to Erik Prince’s military contractors, but with Bannon’s departure even that idea was scotched.

What was unusual about this decision is that when faced with a choice between an unappetizing status quo and a future of even worse alternatives, Trump chose the status quo. He does not normally do this — except when it comes to decisions involving the military. That is consistent with what he did in Syria in the spring.

Trump’s weakness as commander in chief has the paradoxical effect of expanding America’s military footprint in the world.
But of course. :lol:

[Tom Servo]

Holy crap, the spin machine is actually trying to turn Trump staring at the sun into a feat of superheroism rather than idiocy.

Tucker Carlson called it, "Perhaps the most impressive thing any president's ever done."

https://twitter.com/dadpa1/status/899872256276414464

[novicius]

Jeebus, the lengths Reds will go through to claim their Emperor is wearing clothes... :lol:

[G'day Mate]

... seriously?

[Crazed_Insanity]

So, you're saying christianity is conservative but Jesus is liberal?

Not really. Historically the self proclaimed Godly folks tend to be more conservative, yes, but the real Jesus is probably neither conservative nor liberal leaning... He can be both at the same time.

Christ may appear conservative to a conservative and liberal to a liberal.

Take both sanders and Hillary for example, both are liberal leaning but Bernie appeals more to the conservatives probably because he's more 'Christ like' than Hillary... Liberal label alone won't make one more Christ like...

Kim Jung orange who has the super power to look at the sun directly only attempted to be more Christ like by getting a baptism before inauguration... Which is better than nothing I guess...

[George]

Just as you don't see the fiscal responsibility folks lamenting Dons excessive travels depleting the Secret Service budget.

If by "folks", you mean regular American citizens, I disagree. I am outraged by this blatant example of wasteful government spending, and I bet millions of other taxpayers are as well.

No more golf for the asshole-in-chief, says I. Over budget? Too bad. Learn to live like the people you represent!

[thesameguy]

If by "folks", you mean regular American citizens, I disagree. I am outraged by this blatant example of wasteful government spending, and I bet millions of other taxpayers are as well.

No more golf for the asshole-in-chief, says I. Over budget? Too bad. Learn to live like the people you represent!

This is more or less the attitude I'd expect from conservative leaning people. Growing up in Irvine, a bastion of conservative thinking, it's the attitude I was raised with.

What has happened, I believe, is two-fold:

1. The Republican party has been molded into the weird pseudo-Christian, pseudo-Libertarian party it is today. The people I grew up with did not identify with the values associated with the GOP today. The GOP is the party of equality (Lincoln), education (Eisenhower), healthcare (Nixon). the Republicans, historically, have done an assload of good. It's really only post-Nixon or Reagan that things went south.

2. Politics and society in general has become incredibly reactionary and polarized. Insane news cycles, politicized journalism, and instant communication mean people are bombarded 24x7 by thoughts and ideas that they must react to. The result of that is a combination of numbing and defensiveness. I hear it everywhere - even if your candidate does something stupid, you have to stand by him or her or be labeled as an apologist for the other side. It's ridiculous. If I say "Obama wasn't a great president" then someone invariably responds "So you wanted Kerry?" Fuck no I didn't want Kerry, but I wish Obama had been better. If I say, "I'm glad Trump aborted the TPP" then I'm pro-Trump. Fuck no. I just didn't think the TPP was a great idea. Love 'em or leave 'em should not apply to politics. Bad people can do good things, good people can do bad things. Having to blindly support a person just to stay on the team is utterly insane, but it's how we do things today. It is *the reason* why it's Fox News vs. Amazon Post - because if one of them says something nice about the other side, they lose readership. WTAF?

Ehhhhhh.

[thesameguy]

Kim Jung orange

I'm using that.

[Yw-slayer]

So, you're saying christianity is conservative but Jesus is liberal?

Because Christianity is the followers of Christ. And if Christ is liberal then how is Christianity, following Christ, conservative?

To be fair to him, what I THINK he may have been trying to say is that in the US, people who claim to be mainstream "Christians"/believe in mainstream "Christianity" generally endorse and/or are readily associated with what are said to be
"conservative/libertarian" policies (if so, personally I think whether it is the latter co-opting the former, or the former adopting the latter is another matter). This is a view I have heard expressed mainly by non-Americans, namely that American "conservative" "Christians" love Guns and God and the Free Market because it's the Land of the Free and they always complain about the damn secular Govt/Feds overreaching taking away shit from We The People and ignoring One Nation Under God (insert a few more phrases here I guess?). Maybe it's an unfair view, but the fact is that this segment of society makes a lot of noise which creates this sort of impression, particularly amongst outsiders.

At the same time, what he is also probably trying to say is that Christ himself was probably more of a "liberal/socialist" (rather than a "conservative/libertarian"), since he gave free stuff to people and shit rather than telling people to become rich and make shitloads of $$$$ to buy healthcare, and sacrificed himself for people rather than telling them to build weapons and protect themselves.

[thesameguy]

To be fair to him, what I THINK he may have been trying to say is that in the US, people who claim to be mainstream "Christians"/believe in mainstream "Christianity" generally endorse and/or are readily associated with what are said to be
"conservative/libertarian" policies (if so, personally I think whether it is the latter co-opting the former, or the former adopting the latter is another matter). This is a view I have heard expressed mainly by non-Americans, namely that American "conservative" "Christians" love Guns and God and the Free Market because it's the Land of the Free and they always complain about the damn secular Govt/Feds overreaching taking away shit from We The People and ignoring One Nation Under God (insert a few more phrases here I guess?). Maybe it's an unfair view, but the fact is that this segment of society makes a lot of noise which creates this sort of impression, particularly amongst outsiders.

At the same time, what he is also probably trying to say is that Christ himself was probably more of a "liberal/socialist" (rather than a "conservative/libertarian"), since he gave free stuff to people and shit rather than telling people to become rich and make shitloads of $$$$ to buy healthcare, and sacrificed himself for people rather than telling them to build weapons and protect themselves.

Agreed 100%. It seemed pretty accurate and apparent to me. I've never met a "hardcore Christian" who identified as anything other than "hardcore conservative." These guys always seem to latch onto a particular side of the bible, ignoring all the help thy neighbor bits. I'm no expert, but I don't recall any portion of the Bible commenting on taxes or gun ownership, but whatever.

[George]

I've never met a "hardcore Christian" who identified as anything other than "hardcore conservative." These guys always seem to latch onto a particular side of the bible, ignoring all the help thy neighbor bits. I'm no expert, but I don't recall any portion of the Bible commenting on taxes or gun ownership, but whatever.

And therein lies the problem with the Republican Party in recent years...say between Reagan and Obama, but pre-Trump. Fiscal convservatives who are socially liberal and not heavily armed bible-pounders don't fit in anymore.

Maybe they never did.

[thesameguy]

IMLE, I don't think they really ever fit in - but by the same token they weren't summarily rejected. Today, it seems you have a choice between a group that represents business at all cost, straight whites, and personal sovereignty and a group that represents everything else. I think part of the Democrats' problem finding a message is that they have to cover environment, equal civil rights, social programs, fiscal conservatives, socialists, spirituality, atheism, business, anti-business, and weed. There is no party for "average people who want food and a roof." You gotta be a wackadoo Modern Republican Party or the Catchall Party.

[Crazed_Insanity]

2. Politics and society in general has become incredibly reactionary and polarized. Insane news cycles, politicized journalism, and instant communication mean people are bombarded 24x7 by thoughts and ideas that they must react to. The result of that is a combination of numbing and defensiveness. I hear it everywhere - even if your candidate does something stupid, you have to stand by him or her or be labeled as an apologist for the other side. It's ridiculous. If I say "Obama wasn't a great president" then someone invariably responds "So you wanted Kerry?" Fuck no I didn't want Kerry, but I wish Obama had been better. If I say, "I'm glad Trump aborted the TPP" then I'm pro-Trump. Fuck no. I just didn't think the TPP was a great idea. Love 'em or leave 'em should not apply to politics. Bad people can do good things, good people can do bad things. Having to blindly support a person just to stay on the team is utterly insane, but it's how we do things today. It is *the reason* why it's Fox News vs. Amazon Post - because if one of them says something nice about the other side, they lose readership. WTAF?

Ehhhhhh.

Yep, this is the part I can't stand with current state of politics... each side continues to ignore the problems of their own side while magnifying the problems of the other side. (And the problem may be the same problem too!)

America has lots of problems. We need to solve them together. The 2 major political parties we have now are both fucked up! Hope the American people will soon realize this reality... rather than continue to double down on their shitty partisan politics.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Agreed 100%. It seemed pretty accurate and apparent to me. I've never met a "hardcore Christian" who identified as anything other than "hardcore conservative." These guys always seem to latch onto a particular side of the bible, ignoring all the help thy neighbor bits. I'm no expert, but I don't recall any portion of the Bible commenting on taxes or gun ownership, but whatever.

I'm a hardcore Christian who is not a hardcore conservative. People like me do exist.

[thesameguy]

I'm a hardcore Christian who is not a hardcore conservative. People like me do exist.

Trust me when I say you're not that hardcore... at least not in modern vernacular. My friend's parents literally prepared for the end in 1999. They oppose not just gay marriage but gay rights at all - they actively pray the gay away. And they want to do that in public school. They aren't sold on evolution, there were words when they found out their eldest son was engaged in premarital sex, and I'm sure they were amongst those demanding and then doubting Obama's birth certificate. Of course, like many, they conveniently disregard most of the positive messages contained in the Bible, you might boil it down to "God helps those who help themselves," which is crummy and to a large degree off-message. I don't want to say they're evil, but they might be.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, you described them more as hardcore conservatives or hardcore nutcases than hardcore Christians.

At the very minimum, real hardcore bible believing christians should never fall for the trick of Jesus coming back on a specific time. Bible is pretty clear on that.

Often times these people only cherry pick verses of the bible to support their own ideologies.

Real hardcore christians accept the entire Bible as God's Word... won't just cherry pick stuff to support their own ideology.

[thesameguy]

Well, that's a semantics issue. But I think you'll find the modern definition of "hardcore Christian" is actually "cherrypicking Christian." And, really, that's true of most ideologies. Most people can't subscribe fully to anything that prevents them from doing what they want to do. People who identify as "X" often only subscribe to a portion of X, and often those portions that are convenient, seem right at the time, or don't get in the way of things they'd like to do. As you point out, modern conservative Christians often overlook the fact that Jesus was a dirty commie. :p Personally, I'm with Groucho - I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member.

[21Kid]

In case you missed it on Facebook...

For just $10, you can enter to win a trip for two to go wine tasting with Jennifer Lawrence in California — and every dollar helps fund the next big wave of Anti-Corruption victories (https://act.represent.us/sign/win-wine-tasting-jennifer-lawrence/).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp-PWArtsvM

[thesameguy]

Really enjoying this.

http://static-14.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/fd2f111d-33dd-457d-b1a4-ebbed2a6a397-large16x9_Trumpeclipseretweet.jpg

[G'day Mate]

It's not very ... scientific.

[Tom Servo]

So, Arpaio. Whether or not Trump is racist is immaterial. As long as you say nice things, you can be racist as fuck and violate many people's human rights and Trump will happily pardon you. Because he's all about the rule of law. Or something.

[thesameguy]

Except Arpaio was convicted for breaking the law, and then violating a court order to stop breaking the law. So, not so much the rule of law... more like, the hollow shell of law. I can't for the life of me understand what Trump's motivation in the pardon was.

[Yw-slayer]

Because he probably thinks he's a "good man", a "fine person", and wants to throw some red meat to his Base by showing them he is doing stuff?

[JoshInKC]

The motivation is a combo of yw's red meat theory above, and to provide cover for the firing of Gorka. The racists in the know loved Gorka, but they also love Arpaio and Arpaio is a much more widely known figure. So you fire Gorka - base is a little mad about it, then pardon Arpaio and and much broader section of the base is over the moon.

[mk]

GOP stuff, duck stuff?

[MR2 Fan]

Except Arpaio was convicted for breaking the law, and then violating a court order to stop breaking the law. So, not so much the rule of law... more like, the hollow shell of law. I can't for the life of me understand what Trump's motivation in the pardon was.

If Trump can even think this far (doubtful) it may be a sign to others in the russia investigation that if they stay loyal to him, he will protect them if anything happens by pardoning them of their crimes

[Crazed_Insanity]

If Trump can even think this far (doubtful) it may be a sign to others in the russia investigation that if they stay loyal to him, he will protect them if anything happens by pardoning them of their crimes

Yeah, this is probably the most believable scenario, but I've given up trying to figure trump out. I think he aims to be unpredictable, whenever you think you've figured him out, he does something odd to prove your theory wrong. A racist motherfucker when goes out of his way to give money to black colleges, even more so than Obama. Go figure that one out.

[neanderthal]

And he used the cover of Hurricane Harvey to announce the pardon; errbodys eyes were on the weather and he snuck that in.

I can't wait for him to be gone. Preferably to his own 4X6 cell. Or however big they are these days. And preferably not one in a country club prison either.

[drew]

"We're going to fill Gitmo with some bad dudes"



I think he's already booked his trip.

[neanderthal]

"We're going to fill Gitmo with some bad dudes"



I think he's already booked his trip.

:lol: :up:

[neanderthal]

So, with Harvey wreaking havoc on Texas, the GOP needing to get a budget resolution passed, Trump demanding Congress fund the wall, Texas Republicans under fire for their intransigence when it was Hurricane Sandy, and the Democrats saying no way in hell are we funding any kind of wall, what are the chances that Trump/ Ryan try to get the funding for their wall in this spending measure that is going to be necessary to fund recovery efforts in Texas?

We know that the easy way to get their CR, needed to keep the government open, is to include Harvey funding in it. It would be political suicide to vote against it. But what if Ryan adds funds to build that wall?

[Tom Servo]

2016: Trump is playing the long game, he will rise to the level of the office if he wins the election

2017: okay he just thanked a hurricane


Aside: The quote function combined with the minimum post length is irritating.

[Jason]

So, with Harvey wreaking havoc on Texas, the GOP needing to get a budget resolution passed, Trump demanding Congress fund the wall, Texas Republicans under fire for their intransigence when it was Hurricane Sandy, and the Democrats saying no way in hell are we funding any kind of wall, what are the chances that Trump/ Ryan try to get the funding for their wall in this spending measure that is going to be necessary to fund recovery efforts in Texas?

We know that the easy way to get their CR, needed to keep the government open, is to include Harvey funding in it. It would be political suicide to vote against it. But what if Ryan adds funds to build that wall?

Sounds like a shitty thing Republicans would do, so.... Yeah probably.

[Phil_SS]

If they actually do that then every Dem and Independent should get out the word that it is happening. Shame them relentlessly.

AKA, grow a fucking spine.

[FaultyMario]

The Houston thing is a fucking disgrace.

A banana republic kind of shit.

[George]

He acts like a banana republic dictator.

[Fogelhund]

He acts like a banana republic dictator.

..and yet his people love him, because he doesn't sound like a polished politician...

[21Kid]

:sadbanana:

[Tom Servo]

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Mattis freezes Trump's military transgender policy, allows transgender troops to continue serving, pending study.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/29/mattis-orders-pentagon-allow-transgender-troops-continue-serving-pending-study/614711001/

[Freude am Fahren]

Oh, I'd LOVE to see Trump go after Mattis.

[neanderthal]

So. Y'all have probably seen this somewhere online today, but, for those of you who haven't. Especially fucking YOU billi.

Saying All Lives Matter is like looking at all the devastating news from Houston and yelling "All Cities Matter."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude, you don't have to politicize everything and make strange analogies. Calm down. This is a time to lend each other a helping hand... even if those others don't share your ideology.

In fact, which city do you think don't matter? It's time to stop yelling, but to actually try to talk to each other. Yelling helps nobody.

[Tom Servo]

Well, this isn't at all terrifying.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIgplvnVwAEShNv.jpg:large

(I got this image directly from Fox News Twitter feed, so it's almost definitely real).

[Yw-slayer]

That Vanity Fair article on the Princess Royal is great.

[MR2 Fan]

Well, this isn't at all terrifying.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIgplvnVwAEShNv.jpg:large

(I got this image directly from Fox News Twitter feed, so it's almost definitely real).


I hate to say this, but I do think the news media is more dangerous, HOWEVER the problem is that the people taking that poll are usually blaming the wrong side for being "Fake news" while Alex Jones, Hannity, Rush Limbaugh are considered the "real" news.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Each side is terrified of and hates the other side. What's new?

I wish Bernie married a black chick... So that their kid can run as the nation's 1st black Jew and ideally as a republican, then maybe this new president would have a shot at bridging the big gap between our divided nation.

[21Kid]

News Media is how Trump got elected. With all of the free coverage he got during the election.

[Tom Servo]

I hate to say this, but I do think the news media is more dangerous, HOWEVER the problem is that the people taking that poll are usually blaming the wrong side for being "Fake news" while Alex Jones, Hannity, Rush Limbaugh are considered the "real" news.

Fair. I equated "News Media" with "Mainstream News Media", ala NY Times, Washington Post, Fox News, CNN, LA Times, etc. I left out Breitbart, Infowars, and The Daily Stormer from that.

Though, it could be argued that Infowars, Breitbart, and the Daily Stormer are also included in the white supremacist category.

[neanderthal]

News Media is how Trump got elected. With all of the free coverage he got during the election.

Didn't want to be the one to say it.

Not to mention their complicity in bleating "Benghazi/ her emails/ Clinton Foundation/ etc" at every point they could. While NOT really giving a fuck about Trumps problematic grab em by the pussy. Nor his bankruptcies. Nor his lack of any actual agenda. Nor his other unsavory acts in his past.

[neanderthal]

Each side is terrified of and hates the other side. What's new?

I wish Bernie married a black chick... So that their kid can run as the nation's 1st black Jew and ideally as a republican, then maybe this new president would have a shot at bridging the big gap between our divided nation.

Blacks fucking rejected Bernie, by a country mile. Because while he said a lot of right sounding things, he didn't actually say anything that convinced them he would do anything to change anything. He continually couched the black economic situation in this country as a strictly economic thing, and completely ignored that racism of red lining, schooling, , geezuz do I really need to go over all this shit every fucking time.

Get over your adoration of Bernie. He IS NOT and WILL NOT be the Democratic nominee next time around either. No Democratic candidate will take the nomination without the backing of large numbers of black women, the highest voting demographic in the country, by the way. And my black sistas aint feeling what he's putting out.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's why I said we need a black Jewish republican president... ;)

Anyway, you really do think Hillary is the right candidate for the job huh? Not even Bernie could do better? Why do you think she can do better than Obama in the BLM front?

Maybe you're right, but the reality is that more than half of American voters disliked both Hillary and Donnie. I just don't like her nor do I like trump enough to give them my vote. Hillary can also say lots of great sounding things but I'm unconvinced she can walk the walk. If DNC can really walk the walk not just talk the talk, BLM would have no reason to start. Silicon Valley would also be fully diverse and not just full of white males who don't believe in white supremacy.

[neanderthal]

Blacks fucking rejected Bernie, by a country mile. Because while he said a lot of right sounding things, he didn't actually say anything that convinced them he would do anything to change anything. He continually couched the black economic situation in this country as a strictly economic thing, and completely ignored that racism of red lining, schooling, , geezuz do I really need to go over all this shit every fucking time.

Get over your adoration of Bernie. He IS NOT and WILL NOT be the Democratic nominee next time around either. No Democratic candidate will take the nomination without the backing of large numbers of black women, the highest voting demographic in the country, by the way. And my black sistas aint feeling what he's putting out.

Here is the text that I wrote. Please, Please quote me where I said Hillary is better. Just requote my text and use the bold tag so I can see it for myself.

Then, when you're done doing that, you can apologise for putting words in my mouth.

And quit conflating issues while you're at it. And by that I mean insinuating that BLM is a strictly DNC problem/ creation and that somehow Silicon Valley hires according to the DNCs wishes.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why do I need to get over Bernie? Who's the better alternative?

Give me a good reason why then perhaps I will apologize for mistakenly believe that you think Hillary is better.

It's also quite amusing that you make the same errors that I do... When did I say BLM is an issue only for the democrats? All I was saying is that as bad as republicans are, democrats are not that much better. Poor blacks are disadvantaged in both red and blue states. White people also reign supreme in all states, just the angrier red states are having rallies, but the richer blue states, white people are just too busy making money on Wall Street and Silicon Valley. They have little reason to be angry at anyone.

[21Kid]

Didn't want to be the one to say it.

Not to mention their complicity in bleating "Benghazi/ her emails/ Clinton Foundation/ etc" at every point they could. While NOT really giving a fuck about Trumps problematic grab em by the pussy. Nor his bankruptcies. Nor his lack of any actual agenda. Nor his other unsavory acts in his past.

Damn LIBERAL media!!!! :mad:

[MR2 Fan]

nothing suspicious here:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/black-smoke-chimney-russian-consulate-san-francisco/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=41733158

[21Kid]

:lol: Seems like they've learned a thing or two from Trump.

2 Russians just came out of Consulate with cases.
"What about the burning inside?"
"There is no burning," says the woman (See smoke video)
https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2017/09/01/6a8481eb-e819-4404-8937-0f611c4f2089/resize/620x/3a7ab293a238f59d5e128931e3a5c3d7/ap-17244752371953.jpg

[FaultyMario]

Am I the only one that's now seriously worried that Mr. Master Negotiator is going to get us all killed?

I get it, you want to get a better labor chapter in your trade deal with the ROK, but I just don't think now is the time. Not when they HAVE A FUNKING GUN TO THEIR HEAD, you fucking twat!

[FaultyMario]

Dear Mr. President -
Congratulations on a remarkable run. Millions have placed their hopes in you, and all of us, regardless of party, should hope for expanded prosperity and security during your tenure.
This is a unique office, without a clear blueprint for success, so I don't know that any advice from me will be particularly helpful. Still, let me offer a few reflections from the past 8 years.
First, we've both been blessed, in different ways, with great good fortune. Not everyone is so lucky. It's up to us to do everything we can (to) build more ladders of success for every child and family that's willing to work hard.
Second, American leadership in this world really is indispensable. It's up to us, through action and example, to sustain the international order that's expanded steadily since the end of the Cold War, and upon which our own wealth and safety depend.
Third, we are just temporary occupants of this office. That makes us guardians of those democratic institutions and traditions -- like rule of law, separation of powers, equal protection and civil liberties -- that our forebears fought and bled for. Regardless of the push and pull of daily politics, it's up to us to leave those instruments of our democracy at least as strong as we found them.
And finally, take time, in the rush of events and responsibilities, for friends and family. They'll get you through the inevitable rough patches.
Michelle and I wish you and Melania the very best as you embark on this great adventure, and know that we stand ready to help in any ways which we can.
Good luck and Godspeed,


What parts would YOU highlight for Trump?

[MR2 Fan]

now there's speculation that the Russians are giving weapons to NK....that's scary as fuck

[Yw-slayer]

In fairness, that's speculation.

[thesameguy]

Reprehensible. The US would never give weapons to a questionable foreign government.

[FaultyMario]

:D

[TheBenior]

Doesn't Russia sell weapons to anyone whose wire transfers clear? I thought that was at least half the point of their Syria campaign.

[thesameguy]

It's all about the Russian equivalent to the Benjamins.

[FaultyMario]

The DACA announcement in the words of Jeff Sessions, uy uy uy! not since Nazi Germany was dehumanizing language used by such a high ranking officer in an official statement.

[G'day Mate]

Jeebus, I thought almost everyone agreed with the whole "dreamers" thing

[G'day Mate]

Oh hang on, is he just basically getting congress to redo it so that other states can stop complaining?

[FaultyMario]

Immigration can be a controversial topic. We all want safe, secure borders and a dynamic economy, and people of goodwill can have legitimate disagreements about how to fix our immigration system so that everybody plays by the rules.

But that’s not what the action that the White House took today is about. This is about young people who grew up in America – kids who study in our schools, young adults who are starting careers, patriots who pledge allegiance to our flag. These Dreamers are Americans in their hearts, in their minds, in every single way but one: on paper. They were brought to this country by their parents, sometimes even as infants. They may not know a country besides ours. They may not even know a language besides English. They often have no idea they’re undocumented until they apply for a job, or college, or a driver’s license.

Over the years, politicians of both parties have worked together to write legislation that would have told these young people – our young people – that if your parents brought you here as a child, if you’ve been here a certain number of years, and if you’re willing to go to college or serve in our military, then you’ll get a chance to stay and earn your citizenship. And for years while I was President, I asked Congress to send me such a bill.

That bill never came. And because it made no sense to expel talented, driven, patriotic young people from the only country they know solely because of the actions of their parents, my administration acted to lift the shadow of deportation from these young people, so that they could continue to contribute to our communities and our country. We did so based on the well-established legal principle of prosecutorial discretion, deployed by Democratic and Republican presidents alike, because our immigration enforcement agencies have limited resources, and it makes sense to focus those resources on those who come illegally to this country to do us harm. Deportations of criminals went up. Some 800,000 young people stepped forward, met rigorous requirements, and went through background checks. And America grew stronger as a result.

But today, that shadow has been cast over some of our best and brightest young people once again. To target these young people is wrong – because they have done nothing wrong. It is self-defeating – because they want to start new businesses, staff our labs, serve in our military, and otherwise contribute to the country we love. And it is cruel. What if our kid’s science teacher, or our friendly neighbor turns out to be a Dreamer? Where are we supposed to send her? To a country she doesn’t know or remember, with a language she may not even speak?

Let’s be clear: the action taken today isn’t required legally. It’s a political decision, and a moral question. Whatever concerns or complaints Americans may have about immigration in general, we shouldn’t threaten the future of this group of young people who are here through no fault of their own, who pose no threat, who are not taking away anything from the rest of us. They are that pitcher on our kid’s softball team, that first responder who helps out his community after a disaster, that cadet in ROTC who wants nothing more than to wear the uniform of the country that gave him a chance. Kicking them out won’t lower the unemployment rate, or lighten anyone’s taxes, or raise anybody’s wages.

It is precisely because this action is contrary to our spirit, and to common sense, that business leaders, faith leaders, economists, and Americans of all political stripes called on the administration not to do what it did today. And now that the White House has shifted its responsibility for these young people to Congress, it’s up to Members of Congress to protect these young people and our future. I’m heartened by those who’ve suggested that they should. And I join my voice with the majority of Americans who hope they step up and do it with a sense of moral urgency that matches the urgency these young people feel.

Ultimately, this is about basic decency. This is about whether we are a people who kick hopeful young strivers out of America, or whether we treat them the way we’d want our own kids to be treated. It’s about who we are as a people – and who we want to be.

What makes us American is not a question of what we look like, or where our names come from, or the way we pray. What makes us American is our fidelity to a set of ideals – that all of us are created equal; that all of us deserve the chance to make of our lives what we will; that all of us share an obligation to stand up, speak out, and secure our most cherished values for the next generation. That’s how America has traveled this far. That’s how, if we keep at it, we will ultimately reach that more perfect union.

I posted on fb, and I'll say it again here. As a person living in southern Mexico, I'm feeling more like we're in Poland on the eve of WWII.

[FaultyMario]

Sessions’s praise for the 1924 law highlights the difficulty of making the case for immigration restriction, which often relies on popular antagonism toward particular immigrant groups rather than the benefits of restriction per se. The centerpieces of Donald Trump’s immigration policies have been a wall on the U.S.-Mexican border and a ban on Muslims entering the United States.

“I don’t know any historian who would tell you the 1920s law wasn’t a racist law. That was what it was all about. They didn’t try to hide that,” said David Reimers, a professor of history at New York University. The national origin restrictions in the 1924 law were not fully lifted until the passage of the 1965 Nationality and Immigration Act.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/jeff-sessions-1924-immigration/512591/

[drew]

Exactly.

Watching Session's obvious glee as he was announcing it made me simultaneously want to punch the TV in rage, and vomit out my ass sideways.

They're all total and complete cunts.

[MR2 Fan]

I posted on fb, and I'll say it again here. As a person living in southern Mexico, I'm feeling more like we're in Poland on the eve of WWII.

:(

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump is acting weird again.

Congress now has 6 months to legalize DACA (something the Obama Administration was unable to do). If they can't, I will revisit this issue!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 6, 2017

He's also for raising the debt ceiling and possibly remove it altogether.

Very very un-republican of him.

See, this dude is crazy unpredictable.

Maybe he'll revisit the Paris Accord again after all the hurricanes hit.

[MR2 Fan]

my wild guess: Trump is running out of friends, allies, whatever he wants to call them...and he's desperately lonely. Dems come in and play the game by praising him in order to get on his good side, and get some things accomplished

[neanderthal]

So Trump is trying to talk to Democrats about tax reform. I hope they say "One rule Donnie boy no talk without you releasing your taxes first."

[thesameguy]

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

[neanderthal]

Oh i'm fucking looking, and I hope the democrats, and especially our esteemed former FBI director are too. The horses mouth, the horses ear, the horses ass, the horses droppings, the flies flitting in and out of the nostrils, the air it exhales etc etc etc.

That orange cunt (apologies to all cunts for painting you with the same brush!!!) needs to be behind bars.

[Phil_SS]

:lol:

Best post ever.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, you're right. We should definitely hold up legislation to fund the government and protect immigrants until the prez turns over his info. Fuck those people. They can definitely wait.

[neanderthal]

Yeah, you're right. We should definitely hold up legislation to fund the government and protect immigrants until the prez turns over his info. Fuck those people. They can definitely wait.

I'm not on board with that. But that is something the Republicans would do. Witness the entirety of Obama's Presidency; fucking craven cunts! Apologies to all cunts to be painted with the same brush.

I'm just saying NO to any Trumpian tax reform PERIOD until he releases his taxes.

[George]

Personalities and parties aside, tax reform is useless with out SPENDING reform.

[neanderthal]

Personalities and parties aside, tax reform is useless with out SPENDING reform.

Spending reform is useless without cutting the military budget, which he did the opposite off. More money for DARPA, less on fucking shit they already have and don't want.


Did anybody else the curious sound wave thing being done to diplomats in Cuba? More research on that fucking shit. No blacks as test subjects. KTHXBYE

[neanderthal]

So Donnie doubled down on his "on both sides" comments, and did anyone notice the diminished outrage? This ids what he does. He normalises what is immoral behaviour.

He's a fucking cunt (apologies to cunts, I love cunts) and so are his supporters!

[neanderthal]

And for the record, he has achieved exactly nothing of his campaign promises.

ISiS? In 30 days? Ha ha ha.
Build a wall, and MEXICO will pay for it? Why is there talk of it in our budget?
Repeal Obamacare? Ha ha ha.
Balance the budget? Ha ha ha
End President Obama's "illegal " immigration executive orders immediately? Ha ha ha
Take no vacations? Ha ha ha
Etc etc etc.


Fools were taken for rubes by an idiot in horrible orange makeup. And still standing by their dumbfuckery!!!!!

[drew]

Oh, but, he's done more in 9 months than Obama did in 8 years!

He's signed (how many?) EOs! He's getting shit done.

Nevermind that an EO isn't law, and that one of his talking points (that his base ate up) was that Obama was the Executive Order abuser.


Irony much?

Dumbfuckery indeed.

[Tom Servo]

I'm kinda happy that so far my hopes are coming true. Lots of bluster and stupid shit being said, but incredibly ineffective as a leader. If we can just keep spinning our wheels and basically maintaining the status quo for the next four years, I'll consider that a great outcome.

[drew]

Provided he doesn't start WWIII

[neanderthal]

I'm kinda happy that so far my hopes are coming true. Lots of bluster and stupid shit being said, but incredibly ineffective as a leader. If we can just keep spinning our wheels and basically maintaining the status quo for the next four years, I'll consider that a great outcome.

Me too. Except his stupid directives harm the environment, minorities, gays, undocumented, foreign relations, etc etc etc.


Provided he doesn't start WWIII

There is that.

[SkylineObsession]

I'm actually scared for Japan, because of Trumps loud mouth and guns in hand approach. Would rather NK left them alone.

Would actually rather Trump got off his 110 story high orange coloured gold horse to actually try talk to Kim, as Putin has been suggesting.

You's have probably talked about all this already, but i don't come in this topic much.

[Phil_SS]

Just wait til the Olympics. There is no doubt in my mind that the Dear Leader will be rattling his sword.

[drew]

Military parade in lieu of the opening ceremony.

[speedpimp]

Just wait til the Olympics. There is no doubt in my mind that the Dear Leader will be rattling his sword.

Their Dear Leader or ours?

[Sad, little man]

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2599&d=1505879078

2599

[neanderthal]

Shameful, fucking despicable what the GOP are doing about healthcare. And flat out lying about it in lockstep.

I won't even get into the effects of these Hurricanes on the islands, Texas, Florida. Puerto Rico is devastated.

The orange fukstick don't give a damn. Fuck him and his followers.

[21Kid]

But, how do you really feel?

[thesameguy]

I hate when people beat around the bush. Just say it ffs. This is the internet, you're not held accountable for shit.

[Phil_SS]

John McCain:


"I cannot in good conscience vote for the Graham-Cassidy proposal," the Arizona Republican said in a statement. "I believe we could do better working together, Republicans and Democrats, and have not yet really tried. Nor could I support it without knowing how much it will cost, how it will (affect) insurance premiums, and how many people will be helped or hurt by it. Without a full CBO score, which won't be available by the end of the month, we won't have reliable answers to any of those questions." :handclap:

[21Kid]

:up: :toast:

[Crazed_Insanity]

McCain's brain is working much better after the brain surgery..., no longer rambling non-sense like before! :p

[sandydandy]

Kim Jong called Trump a “dotard”.

[thesameguy]

Well, cheetard isn't technically a word, so good on him.

[Rare White Ape]

I don't know whether to start a new thread on this or risk it getting lost in the talk about US and EU politics, but...

Every time something political happens in my country I'm constantly reminded of that Simpsons episode when Bart called Australia and had to go there to repay the phone bill and the Prime Minister is found relaxing on a tube in a dam drinking a tinnie (can of beer for you O.S. folks) and Bart's punishment is a kick in the bum.

To the story:

The same sex marriage debate is heating up right now. Yes, it's 2017 and yes, we still haven't dealt with it yet. But anyway, the hard-right conservative former PM Tony Abbott was headbutted yesterday by a man who had a 'yes' badge on his shirt. At first the incident was reasonably conflated with the pro-marriage equality lobby since his badge said yes, and Abbott says no. But the real story came out not long afterwards:

http://scontent.fbne3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21557771_10214099214945134_586490507673949042_n.jp g?oh=01c9745825deb6b67894a811a11dc665&oe=5A41450B

Australian of the year.

[thesameguy]

I am having a hard time with the idea of a citizen getting close enough to head butt the head of state.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If only we Americans can learn from aussies to exercise our right to buttheads rather than bear arms... ;)

[Tom Servo]

Somewhat apropos today with all of the voter ID business, I thought this was an interesting thread on Reddit about a 30 question literacy test you had to take in Louisiana during the Jim Crow days in order to vote, and just how insane the test was. Also explains the origins of being "grandfathered in".

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/711mtp/a_literacy_test_given_to_black_voters_in_the_1960s/

[Rare White Ape]

I am having a hard time with the idea of a citizen getting close enough to head butt the head of state.

Technically our head of state is Queen Elizabeth II, and Abbott is the former prime minister.

But I’d equate it to someone being able to headbutt the former US president anyway.

[Tom Servo]

I think Michael Ian Black put it best when he said "LO-fucking-L"



WH confirms to CNN Kushner used private email to occasionally correspond with admin officials, says "fewer than 100 emails" Jan-Aug

[thesameguy]

Technically our head of state is Queen Elizabeth II, and Abbott is the former prime minister.

But I’d equate it to someone being able to headbutt the former US president anyway.

True, true. My bad.

[neanderthal]

I think Michael Ian Black put it best when he said "LO-fucking-L"

"Lock her up!!! Lock her u..." No wait. This isn't a manufactured crisis designed to infuriate the conservative base. Never mind.

Did I mention the double standards applied to Hillary versus anybody else yet?

And nobody who thought her emails were a problem has a second thought about this. Nor can they say anything was found that was damning in said emails. But yeah, lets pretend this isn't the same.

[Dicknose]

I also haven't mentioned the same sex marriage issue as we are managing to make a mess of it. Both sides are doing some bad stuff.

As for getting near the prime minister, when Abbott was PM I saw him having a coffee at a small cafe while out on a bicycle ride. I'm sure there was someone from security there, but it was very low key. No trouble being able to get up and touch (head butt) him. We just don't have a history/culture of that sort of violence. No assassination attempts on major politicians or public figures.

[speedpimp]

Kim Jong called Trump a “dotard”.

Well he dd get the tard part right.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/25/ivanka-trump-used-personal-email-for-government-business/

[FaultyMario]

I hate to sound like a broken record. But the moron president really scares me.

He's pretty much like Peña, they're obviously not stupid, you don't get to be a president if you are, they're just out of their depth but they're so in love with money and power that they just don't care about their shortcomings, they'll just let their people handle things even if it's illegal, immoral and unethical; they have no imperatives to put the good of the people above their interests. And that is pretty fucking scary.

With Mr. Kim I don't feel scared in the spooky sense, he has been pretty consistent in his actions, I understand he is the face of a military junta that is downright tenebrous; but the DPRK's leadership know what they're doing, they have been doing this shit for three generations; they need to be dealt with, not rattled.

Now Trump, he is the zit on the worst face of capitalism. Which in a world moving towards postcapitalism is not only outdated but a countermovement that has been steadily losing ground since the sixties, they're a powerful minority and they went from resisting to going on the attack. These old men really make nervous.

[MR2 Fan]

they're a powerful minority and they went from resisting to going on the attack. These old men really make nervous.

....that's the problem, they go on the attack when they feel like they're cornered. That's why we're seeing this.

After 2018, the GOP may not have majorities for a LONG time as long as people are mad enough about the current situation.

[Jason]

1000 pages, congrats guys!

[tigeraid]

Surely we've solved world peace, then?

[Sad, little man]

I hate to sound like a broken record. But the moron president really scares me.

He's pretty much like Peña, they're obviously not stupid, you don't get to be a president if you are, they're just out of their depth but they're so in love with money and power that they just don't care about their shortcomings, they'll just let their people handle things even if it's illegal, immoral and unethical; they have no imperatives to put the good of the people above their interests. And that is pretty fucking scary.

With Mr. Kim I don't feel scared in the spooky sense, he has been pretty consistent in his actions, I understand he is the face of a military junta that is downright tenebrous; but the DPRK's leadership know what they're doing, they have been doing this shit for three generations; they need to be dealt with, not rattled.

Now Trump, he is the zit on the worst face of capitalism. Which in a world moving towards postcapitalism is not only outdated but a countermovement that has been steadily losing ground since the sixties, they're a powerful minority and they went from resisting to going on the attack. These old men really make nervous.
This is all, in a strange and somewhat terrible way, maybe a good thing. I think our society and our way of doing business may need to be driven into the ground so that we can begin to pick up the pieces and build something new. It's been too easy to just float along and not change anything up to now. Maybe this presidency will begin to change things. Or, maybe he gets out of office and we just go back to ignoring it, I dunno.

[thesameguy]

I think you guys underestimate the arc of capitalism. A large portion of society may be looking past capitalism now, but the machine is in full swing with no short-term signs of slowing down. There are still plenty of resources to plunder and plenty of people to buy finished products. I think 10 or 20 years ago people started disengaging from traditional capitalistic values, but at the same time the systems started moving out of view. The result could be people who think they're living post-capitalism but are just stuck in a system they can't see and don't understand. Capitalism is moving past its relationship with society and cementing its relationship with government. People like Trump are just starting to appear. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

But I do think it will get better. We have a lot of big problems to solve, but I think we're starting to grasp what those problems are and we may have the bulk of the tools we need to address them. What gets me down on the daily is actually exactly that. We have tools to solve a lot of problems we've exhaustively identified, but we don't act. I don't think we can solve all the problems Right Now, it's ambitious and ridiculous, but we can certainly stop throwing trash on the ground and stop leaving the lights on. Cancer is a pain and world hunger a challenge - how about we just do the things we can do?

Bah.

In any case, eventually society will evolve to escape the corpocracy we're forming or society will revolt. We still outnumber them and they can only push so far. I do believe that, 100%. Resource distribution is in increasingly good shape, and we're better and better at making more from less. So many of the conflicts that have traditionally plagued mankind are just irrelevant now. That's a good deal - freeing the collective we up from fighting for survival to fighting for comfort, rights, and knowledge is a transition we could reasonably start seeing in our lifetimes. I'm pretty down on humanity in general, but this gives me hope.

[Fogelhund]

Capitalism will continue to thrive for quite some time... but not in the black and white manner we identify it as. There will have to be some sort of continued advancement of socialism with Capitalism, to ensure a fairer distribution of the wealth.

[Freude am Fahren]

You guys need to change your page layout. I'm only on page 250 :)

[21Kid]

Page 167 here. Almost post #10,000 though.

Republican push to repeal Obamacare collapses (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41402164)
:lol:

[FaultyMario]

Capitalism is moving past its relationship with society and cementing its relationship with government. People like Trump are just starting to appear. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

I think it's become obvious, by the advancement of technology basically, that Political Representatives are representatives of financial interests and that has put the finger on the system of political representation as a whole. The Greek Debt Crisis, the Spanish Housing Crisis, they stemmed from those conflicts of interests and became a struggle in the political arena. The Trumps were always there, the newer actors IMHO are the OccupyBernieBros (hashtag) that are looking for options to move the system forward in ways that can be confused for anti-systemic options, but they're not, single payer healthcare is pure capitalism. The antisystemic experiments are not widespread but they provide for inspiration for some of the stuff the more progressive actors in the system want to try out (I'm talking here of stuff like "Change the World Without Taking Power (https://libcom.org/library/change-world-without-taking-power-john-holloway)").

The Offshore shell companies tax evasion schemes (panama papers et al) are based on evidence retrieved with contemporary technological resources made available to not just the powerful elites, but to the adequate citizenry, which in turn is demanding reforms on our political procedures and processes; Trump is a glitch in the system that could cause an irrecoverable failure.

[MR2 Fan]

I think you guys underestimate the arc of capitalism. A large portion of society may be looking past capitalism now, but the machine is in full swing with no short-term signs of slowing down. There are still plenty of resources to plunder and plenty of people to buy finished products. I think 10 or 20 years ago people started disengaging from traditional capitalistic values, but at the same time the systems started moving out of view. The result could be people who think they're living post-capitalism but are just stuck in a system they can't see and don't understand. Capitalism is moving past its relationship with society and cementing its relationship with government. People like Trump are just starting to appear. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

But I do think it will get better. We have a lot of big problems to solve, but I think we're starting to grasp what those problems are and we may have the bulk of the tools we need to address them. What gets me down on the daily is actually exactly that. We have tools to solve a lot of problems we've exhaustively identified, but we don't act. I don't think we can solve all the problems Right Now, it's ambitious and ridiculous, but we can certainly stop throwing trash on the ground and stop leaving the lights on. Cancer is a pain and world hunger a challenge - how about we just do the things we can do?

Bah.

In any case, eventually society will evolve to escape the corpocracy we're forming or society will revolt. We still outnumber them and they can only push so far. I do believe that, 100%. Resource distribution is in increasingly good shape, and we're better and better at making more from less. So many of the conflicts that have traditionally plagued mankind are just irrelevant now. That's a good deal - freeing the collective we up from fighting for survival to fighting for comfort, rights, and knowledge is a transition we could reasonably start seeing in our lifetimes. I'm pretty down on humanity in general, but this gives me hope.

:up:

Excellent post.

Like my Market Disruptions thread (SHAMELESS PLUG), I think we are seeing massive shifts that will change things long-term....the question is what are we able to predict and plan for?

I've thought for a long time that often we do not try to incorporate technological changes on a macro scale...like a city wide scale. Being a person who grew up around Disney (wait...hear me out)......I learned bits and pieces about the EPCOT City plan (entirely different than the theme park) and the idea of putting all of our advancements and ideas into a full size city.

If we can see that happening and also do a lot more local farming and manufacturing and not require deliveries overseas constantly, we can really improve things. At the same time, it could also make us more isolated in certain ways, but it's always a give and take.