Politics

[tigeraid]

I think you guys underestimate the arc of capitalism. A large portion of society may be looking past capitalism now, but the machine is in full swing with no short-term signs of slowing down. There are still plenty of resources to plunder and plenty of people to buy finished products. I think 10 or 20 years ago people started disengaging from traditional capitalistic values, but at the same time the systems started moving out of view. The result could be people who think they're living post-capitalism but are just stuck in a system they can't see and don't understand. Capitalism is moving past its relationship with society and cementing its relationship with government. People like Trump are just starting to appear. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

But I do think it will get better. We have a lot of big problems to solve, but I think we're starting to grasp what those problems are and we may have the bulk of the tools we need to address them. What gets me down on the daily is actually exactly that. We have tools to solve a lot of problems we've exhaustively identified, but we don't act. I don't think we can solve all the problems Right Now, it's ambitious and ridiculous, but we can certainly stop throwing trash on the ground and stop leaving the lights on. Cancer is a pain and world hunger a challenge - how about we just do the things we can do?

Bah.

In any case, eventually society will evolve to escape the corpocracy we're forming or society will revolt. We still outnumber them and they can only push so far. I do believe that, 100%. Resource distribution is in increasingly good shape, and we're better and better at making more from less. So many of the conflicts that have traditionally plagued mankind are just irrelevant now. That's a good deal - freeing the collective we up from fighting for survival to fighting for comfort, rights, and knowledge is a transition we could reasonably start seeing in our lifetimes. I'm pretty down on humanity in general, but this gives me hope.


It's moving past its relationship with society and cementing its relationship with government--and roughly half the US Population, and maybe 1/3 the population of Canada, Britain, Australia, etc WANT it to. You can approach a friend or even a random stranger in one of our countries, and say "we need to fix this climate change shit, start building sustainable energy, look after the planet, end wars, focus on the hunger and poverty issues, etc etc" and roughly half of the time, the answer will be "fuck that, I don't care/I have my own problems/I just want more material wealth" or "that is LITERALLY a lie, false, fake news, scaremongering, you're part of the problem."

(Or, they're part of the vastly wealthy and don't want to hear it because it gets in the way of making money.)

To me the problem isn't capitalism, it's unchecked free-market capitalism combined with complete freedom--in this case, the freedom to not give a shit. So you take that and ADD unchecked capitalism causing the wealth inequality, and now people are either rich and ONLY want to protect their own interests, OR they're too poor to care about the big picture. That's the big fucking mountain that needs to be climbed: how do you make people care about the big pictures of society and environment when the system they live in actively works to prevent that?

Don't get me wrong, this situation is "better" than many poorer or developing countries, where people are not only too poor to care, but are too uneducated to understand. Or, they're under the heel of a monarch or dictator, and have no freedom regardless.

As Fogelhund points out, our best answer at the moment is a slow advancement of socialism within capitalism. That way you retain (in theory) personal freedoms, while fighting to increase them without destroying an economy. But that's SLOW. GLACIAL, even. Will it be too little too late?

(Not to mention half the population of the world's most powerful country literally thinks you are satan and should be hung if you mention anything involving socialism. Making that march even slower.)

It's maddening to see the fantastic advances in renewable energy and sustainable food going on right now, and then laying that over top of world society and realizing it is an absolute speck of fucking dust to the governments of the world at large. These scientific and social advancements should be carefully and efficiently scrutinized, and then railroaded into place and praised for their brilliance as fast as possible. Instead they're not scrutinized but SHIT on and immediately assumed to be a liberal conspiracy, tree-hugging nonsense, against the "word of God" or "fake news." How can anyone with a brain not be hopelessly depressed by it all....

[FaultyMario]

The thing with the liberal (as in the 18c philosophy) modern world is that individuals don't have freedoms, society allows a number of institutions the right to model and legitimate the conducts of individuals and the relations between them. Freedom is a relative concept.

[tigeraid]

The thing with the liberal (as in the 18c philosophy) modern world is that individuals don't have freedoms, society allows a number of institutions the right to model and legitimate the conducts of individuals and the relations between them. Freedom is a relative concept.


Sorry I kinda rambled a bit. I think the point I was trying to get at, is that we have such freedom that we cannot be FORCED to, say, immediately stop doing anything that harms the environment (even on our personal property), or give away equally portioned wealth so we can all share with the poor, or whatever else would IMMEDIATELY begin to solve the problems we face. I don't mean that's a BAD thing, freedom (as relative as it may be) is crucial and needs to remain. I'm saying it's a Catch-22, where that freedom allows everyone's opinions (educated or uneducated) to drastically affect our big-picture-problem solving.

[thesameguy]

It is, for sure.

And it is depressing, but certainly not hopelessly depressing. Small societies are slow to move, large societies are glacial. Being a part of the modern world requires patience. I suck at patience - I have none, but I do recognize it's required. It's easy to get lost amidst all the problems the modern world has, but I think it's important to remember two things: 1) We have amazing control over our circumstances. We don't have angry gods ruining crops or mysterious ailments suddenly wiping out entire countries. We have recognized if not solved a huge number of problems that affected mankind for eons. That's progress. Sure, some of our solutions come with problems of their own, absolutely we're not done. But we're in the solving phase, not the victim phase. That's big. 2) We have amazing access to information. Some of it is great - widespread education for example, some of it is shitty - widespread advertising for example, and some of it is supremely depressing - awareness of all sorts of problems that aren't immediately obvious but catastrophic nonetheless, like melting ice caps.

We are millennia away from winning. Humanity is not even close to reaching equilibrium with much less victory over the universe. It's not something anyone we know has even the possibility of seeing. It's not worth the time or mental energy to try to win. You can't. What humanity c2017 has to do is keep the wheels turning and act responsibly. Leave it better than you found it is a fine way to live. Not everyone will, and not everyone can. But those who can, should. Hell, they must. It's very easy for me to write that, personally as a fixer I find it much harder to live it, but I do believe it and that helps. Going to bed every night believing I did the best I could to improve my own footprint and remediate some others' is ok. I know I could do more. Lots of things I could give up, lots of things I could take on. But from a practical standpoint I think we'd be better off if more people tried a little hard rather than a few people tried really hard, so it's a bigger return on investment to inspire people to pick up their own trash than to pick up someone else's. That's what I'm working with.

The bulk of humanity is still in survival mode and probably will be for decades to come. Nobody is going to get those people to suddenly realize that their ez chair and flatscreen are not actually the totality of their concern. I'm not saying we shouldn't remind them, but there are so many things to do beating your head against people who haven't quite got with the program isn't useful. It will come with time - it always does. Energy is better spent doing some good in your area and engaging with people who are already waking up and getting an idea of what will be important tomorrow.

I think in any era the people who recognize these shifts are small in number, but they're out there. Small numbers fought some of the biggest battles humanity has ever faced. You just gotta find those people and band together. Have the conversations, refine the goals. I suspect that the "information age" makes this harder than it may have been in the past - you don't really get to lock yourself in your church, your curia, your shed, or your lab and get to work. You're going to be inundated with distracting messages at all turns. But you can remember what's important, where you're going, and the key points along the way. We don't have to change minds. We have to change the world.

[MR2 Fan]

the bad news: population is going to grow to 10 billion people

the good news: due to demographics changes, it won't go past that

I'm pretty sure I've posted Hans Rosling's (RIP) videos before, but check out his TED talks if you want some great charts about the world...it paints a better picture of how things are changing.

[mk]

Peak phosphorus.

[thesameguy]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/25/north-korea-blows-us-aircraft-carrier-jets-new-propaganda-video/

Wouldn't it be interesting if North Korea told its people they'd gone to war without ever actually doing it?

[Tom Servo]

Tom Price has resigned as head of HHS after people got kinda upset that he spent something like half a million dollars on chartered fights everywhere he went. Including to the corner grocery store.

[novicius]

:lol: :up:

[Cam]

Wow, that NK propaganda video is comically bad. :lol:

[neanderthal]

It is repulsive, during the crisis in Puerto Rico, the response of Drumpf administration.

Every single one of those arse kissing yes men should resign.


If I was the head of FEMA I would call the Secretary of the Navy, Army etc and say "take your damn ships to this port to transport these supplies." If I was the sectetary of the Navy i'd have called him a long time ago with a "what do you have, where is it, and how quickly can we get this to Puerto Rico?"

And if I got fired, so be it.

Fucking disgusting!

Where are Trumps supporters? Where the fuck are those cunts?

[Fogelhund]

It is repulsive, during the crisis in Puerto Rico, the response of Drumpf administration.

Every single one of those arse kissing yes men should resign.


If I was the head of FEMA I would call the Secretary of the Navy, Army etc and say "take your damn ships to this port to transport these supplies." If I was the sectetary of the Navy i'd have called him a long time ago with a "what do you have, where is it, and how quickly can we get this to Puerto Rico?"

And if I got fired, so be it.

Fucking disgusting!

Where are Trumps supporters? Where the fuck are those cunts?

But why? Are they really Americans? Are they white, do they matter?

[neanderthal]

And today Trump tweeted that they're lazy... from the confines of his golf course.

[FaultyMario]

No, no and no.

Edit: Way to ruin my snarky response to Fogelhund!

[Tom Servo]

Fuckin' weeeeeeaaaaaak.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLAj3EiUIAAP8gu.jpg:large

[FaultyMario]

Is that even legal?

[drew]

That's all anything is to him, ratings.

He's a fucking bell end.

[FaultyMario]

The whole friggin country club is under attack!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx0ixWJRa8E

[Sad, little man]

Would Rex Tillerson have done better within the Trump administration if his name was Tex Rillerson? Discuss...

[MR2 Fan]

Puerto Rico can now rest easy, Donald Trump has DEDICATED his GOLF TROPHY to them! I'm sure there were 3 million sighs of relief for that!

[Tom Servo]

I'm not familiar enough with all the politics to make much of a judgment, but after just being in Barcelona and loving that city, the scenes I'm seeing today from their independence referendum and the Spanish police cracking down are breaking my heart.

[Yw-slayer]

Because the Police weren't efficient enough when dealing with the separatists? :assclown:

[MR2 Fan]

House passed a bill banning late term abortion (20+ weeks). I generally agree with this decision, unless there's a medical situation that requires it.

[21Kid]

Is it sad or funny that it reads like a bad soap opera?

GOP congressman repeatedly promoted antiabortion stance a week after reportedly telling mistress to get abortion

[Tom Servo]

Reporter for the Toronto Star got this quote from someone in Puerto Rico.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLQI8vXXoAE1jKX.jpg:large

[thesameguy]

Look, Trump be Trump. Let's not act surprised.

[drew]

Nope. He's showing exactly who he is. That's why so many voted for him. He's not "fake".


A completely up-front self-centered, un-filtered, incompetent fuckstain, but not fake.

"When you compare this to a real disaster, like Katrina..."

Yeah, so go fuck yourself.

[Freude am Fahren]

Guys, did you know about category 5 hurricanes? Few people have ever heard of them.

[MR2 Fan]

Guys, did you know about category 5 hurricanes? Few people have ever heard of them.

Fredrick Douglass was researching them but he got stuck in Nambia

[MR2 Fan]

In other news...during a peaceful protest in St. Louis last night...the police decided to arrest the journalists covering the protest (along with lots of protestors and also legal counsel from what I understand)

Note: the protestors were blocking a road which I disagree with. They can use civil disobedience, but blocking a road isn't the way to do it.

The press is supposed to be immune from arrest if they are only covering the action and not being involved...apparently the St. Louis police don't care.

[Freude am Fahren]

Blocking a road is civil disobedience. IMO, that's fair game, though maybe stay away form highways. And let emergency vehicles through if they come by.

But yeah, press getting arrested is bullshit. They also arrested a bunch of civilians recently who were trapped in an area police surrounded (I think they were coming out of a bar or something).

[FaultyMario]

From CNN

President Donald Trump hosted his top military brass and their spouses for dinner at the White House on Thursday night. The group posed for a photo. Then this exchange with reporters happened:
Trump: "You guys know what this represents? Maybe it's the calm before the storm."
Reporter: "What's the storm?"

Trump: "It could be ... the calm, the calm before the storm."
Reporter: "Iran? ISIS? What storm, Mr. President?"
Trump: "We have the world's great military people in this room, I will tell you that. And uh, we're gonna have a great evening, thank you all for coming."
Reporter: "What storm, Mr. President?"
Trump: "You'll find out."
What. The. Hell. Is. Happening.

(we need to get rid of the 2 character quota for quoted text like we have for video)

[MR2 Fan]

It's VERY scary and I really hope the generals can keep Dotard in check

[Tom Servo]

At least NBC said that they've heard rumors that the "storm" is Tillerson. Be interesting to see if that "suicide pact" between him, Mnuchin, and Mattis is real and in effect...

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tillerson-mattis-mnuchin-forge-suicide-pact-in-the-event-trump-wants-one-of-them-gone-report/article/2636550

[Leon]

The storm is probably just Trumpanzee vaguely running off at the mouth in a self aggrandizing manner without paying much attention, and not really having an answer when a journo asks "say what now?". Because he was just spouting rubbish for the sake of hearing his own voice.

[drew]

...and to leave reality show-esque cliff hangers.

Newsflash, fuckwad, this IS reality.

I can't stand more than about 5 words out of his mouth anymore. When he "speaks", I turn the channel before molests his first sentence.

[21Kid]

Same. Mute doesn't even help, because I can't stand watching him speak either.

What pisses me off the most is that it felt like we were really making some progress for once. Equal marriage rights, clean energy, etc...
And he comes in and just take a giant shit on everything. :sadbanana:

[neanderthal]

Same. Mute doesn't even help, because I can't stand watching him speak either.

What pisses me off the most is that it felt like we were really making some progress for once. Equal marriage rights, clean energy, etc...
And he comes in and just take a giant shit on everything. :sadbanana:

Word.

And the mega shit thing is there are people who still support him.

[MR2 Fan]

Word.

And the mega shit thing is there are people who still support him.

I just feel like the people who support him are either not really paying attention OR just listening to the wrong "news" organizations...I'm hoping that they will slowly become less popular.


BTW one report today showed his approval rating at 32%

[neanderthal]

So, ... birth control.

Seriously, who fucking voted for this twunt?!?!


I just feel like the people who support him are either not really paying attention OR just listening to the wrong "news" organizations...I'm hoping that they will slowly become less popular.


BTW one report today showed his approval rating at 32%

Nah mate, they're deliberately obtuse and are being fucking cunts.

[FaultyMario]

Recently the head of the Mexican National Agricultural Council has said that they have no problem taking a two-year pause in NA free trade if that means not renewing NAFTA under Trump's conditions, and the president of the senate has been of that same opinion (https://panampost.com/elena-toledo/2017/10/05/mexican-senate-chief-backs-complete-withdrawal-from-nafta/).

I think a trade war is closer than a nuclear one, and it's consequences would stay with us for a generation.

[neanderthal]

So Pence got on a plane in Las Vegas, flew to Indianapolis, staged an appearance at the Colts game, left because "kneeling is disrespectful to the men and women in uniform" and flew, in his outrage to a fundraiser in Los Angeles (these things called fundraisers are planned and scheduled, we know his leaving wasn't because of NFL players kneeling) tweeted about it using a picture from four years ago.

And the fundraiser; for Putins boy Dana Rohrberger. Because patriot.


Who falls for this bullshit? Seriously? Go get your money back for the brain you were supposed to get.

[thesameguy]

I don't know, and I don't think either of us really want to know.

[Crazed_Insanity]

He should reimburse the cost of Air Force II for this stupid stunt.

Least he can do is not make it so obvious by going to a fundraiser right away...

Will we ever truly be 'united' states again? Sigh...

Well, at least they promised to make 'america' great again? Maybe that also include central and south americas...

[thesameguy]

I hope so. I'm eyeballing Costa Rica.

[MR2 Fan]

Trump has just officially declared October 9th as Columbus Day....he invented it apparently....nevermind the other 80 years this was a thing

[21Kid]

Probably trying to put an end to "Indigenous People's Day" and support that fine White Male who Discovered America. :rolleyes:

Columbus Day nixed for 'Indigenous Peoples' Day' by more universities nationwide (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/09/columbus-day-nixed-for-indigenous-peoples-day-by-more-universities-nationwide.html)

[mk]

29=19?

[21Kid]

Damn Eminem (http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/11/entertainment/eminem-storm-full-lyrics/index.html)!!!

[George]

I saw a post somewhere today that said something like, "If I understand how rap battles work, Eminem is now the POTUS." :up:

[Sad, little man]

This bumper belongs in the Smithsonian.

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2657&d=1507862190

2657

[MR2 Fan]

it's amazing how they were able to put stickers on for the past 60 years of a 2000's Corolla too

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wonder if there's really somebody moderate in the US who casted their votes accordingly over the decades...

Probably not.

[Tom Servo]

That and that's apparently that person who shows up on every poll as "undecided".

[FaultyMario]

Dear Mr. Trump, It seems you will succeed in kicking us out of NAFTA. And for that I thank you.

Sure, some people are going to suffer, mainly the richer folk who work in binational commerce. But I live in a country where small agriculture is grossly underrepresented and underpowered, and an end to Nafta is just what small producers have been begging for.

Currently 7 out of 10 agricultural producers in mx have plots of 15ac or less yet they provide 40% of grains for domestic consumption, the remaining 60% of grains are imported (Corn, our dietary staple comes almost exclusively from the U.S.). The rest of the main output of small producers is high value crops like coffee or agave. Also, 60% of all jobs in agriculture are provided by small farms, which are better for their local communities.

So yeah, Mr. Artist of the Deal, thank you, thank you, you have highhandedly contributed to us having to refocus our attention to our more efficient food producers, and you have also slashed demand of undocumented migration to your rural areas.

By bluffing us out of NAFTA You would've just made your corn and produce way more expensive for us than our own crops. Without a treaty with such beneficial conditions for your farmers, I doubt that under WTO rules The US would be allowed to subsidize farming exports as much as you have done.

I'm not saying it's going to be peachy for us, but it'll help us in the long run. We have a general election in 8 months, and the new conditions will prompt our leaders to reshape our policies, I have no faith in politicians, but it's going to be a pretty intense two years and we, the society, will push hard to get something done, we mexicans always shine on the face of adversity.

As for the rest of our exports, we've opened up our trade since NAFTA came into effect, and we have some good deals going (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Mexico_free_trade_agreements.PNG), no Nafta will slow our commerce but it won't be the of our world.

Good luck getting re-elected!

[FaultyMario]

Also, almost all the beef we eat comes from the U.S., guess the Uruguayan ranchers will be rubbing their hands.

[21Kid]

Trump's flag ceremony joke sparks debate (http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/10/13/trump-hannity-flag-ceremony-joke-lemon.cnn)

Not only does he joke about it... He tries to talk over the bugle while it's playing. Talk about the height of disrespect.

[thesameguy]

You know how when you do too much molly your serotonin receptors shut down to reduce the effects? Whatever receptor responds to outrage in my brain is shutting down.

[21Kid]

I'll take your word for it. ;)



But, yes... I've had that same feeling for quite a while.

[MR2 Fan]

I said this a few months ago, but Trump is setting the bar so low that James Cameron is searching the Mariana trench right now trying to find it

[Tom Servo]

It is definitely a relief to hear that Trump has spoken to the president of the Virgin Islands.

[21Kid]

I'm sure that happens quite often... :smh:

[FaultyMario]

Which virgin island is allowed a president?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey com'on, we all talk to ourselves sometime, right?

Just that we don't usually broadcast to the whole world about it as some kind of achievement... ;)

[sandydandy]

I was watching the Roast of Donald Trump the other day, and it was so good. I watched it a few years ago as well, when Trump was just thinking about getting into the race.

Can’t believe it all started as a joke.

The jokes and insults were great, and he was a really great sport about it as well, and took it all in stride. He was cool, and that’s the Donald Trump that I miss. Can’t stand what’s he’s become. He’s so rotten now, and it’s sad.

[Tom Servo]

I think I mentioned it a bit ago, but there's a clip of Trump on Howard Stern's show where Howard goads Artie into repeating a joke from the roast. Trump gets visibly mad, and doesn't let it go. Said that it's okay to make fun of him during the roast, but doing it afterwards was disrespectful. You instantly see that switch flip in his head, where Artie goes from friend to enemy.

[MR2 Fan]

I was watching the Roast of Donald Trump the other day, and it was so good. I watched it a few years ago as well, when Trump was just thinking about getting into the race.

Can’t believe it all started as a joke.

The jokes and insults were great, and he was a really great sport about it as well, and took it all in stride. He was cool, and that’s the Donald Trump that I miss. Can’t stand what’s he’s become. He’s so rotten now, and it’s sad.

There was some info about that, apparently all of the roast stuff was pre-screened by Trump and he also made sure that if they talked about something Trump paying millions of dollars for something, that Trump made sure they raised it...something like paying $50 million instead of $10 million, just to stroke Trump's rich ego

[drew]

If I recall the article correctly, he was also prohibiting any jokes about his wealth.


There are two things in my mind, as to his reluctance releasing his taxes:

1: (and what I consider to be the more important one): it will be revealed he's nowhere near as well-off as he professes. In fact, I'd venture a guess it's that he's in the shit can.
2: Russia.

Either way, he's a fuck stain.

[Tom Servo]

FWIW, paraphrasing the joke that got Trump to turn on Artie.

"Donald Trump was driving around Atlantic City with his daughter Ivanka. He pointed up at the tall buildings and said 'Someday, these will all be huge buildings with your name on them...as long as you marry someone named Borgata.'"

[MR2 Fan]

If I recall the article correctly, he was also prohibiting any jokes about his wealth.


There are two things in my mind, as to his reluctance releasing his taxes:

1: (and what I consider to be the more important one): it will be revealed he's nowhere near as well-off as he professes. In fact, I'd venture a guess it's that he's in the shit can.
2: Russia.

Either way, he's a fuck stain.

I think 1 and 2 are related....he's probably mostly in the shit can because of debts he owes to Russia

[Crazed_Insanity]

Our future history book will be an interesting read for sure...

[tigeraid]

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/10/12/trumps-war-on-knowledge/



Trump’s war on settled science and truth will have lethal consequences. An estimated 2.3 million American construction workers, miners, and road-crew laborers face life-threatening injury and illness because the Occupational Health and Safety Administration has delayed the enforcement of rules protecting them from silica dust, which is incontrovertibly linked to increases in cancer and lung disease. Deaths will rise among those who toil in shipyards and on construction sites because a regulation created by the Obama administration to reduce exposure to the carcinogen beryllium has been reversed. Miners are at greater risk because inspections in coal mines to identify hazards have been curtailed, and families in Appalachia will be further endangered because the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine have been ordered to stop studying how pollutants produced by mountaintop-removal mining may lead to increased rates of cancer, birth defects and respiratory disease.

The lives of millions will be shortened because more than thirty regulatory rules safeguarding Americans from pollution have been rolled back: they will slowly die from increased heavy metal effluents in waterways; they will die if emission standards for vehicles are relaxed; they will die because chemical spills will be more frequent and our water, air, and soil less clean. And more children will get ill and die if parents opt out of immunization programs encouraged by the president’s reckless promotion of the completely debunked “theory” about a link between vaccination and autism, a belief seconded by Tom Price, until recently the head of Health and Human Services, who once said that “vaccines are the equivalent of human experimentation.”

[Tom Servo]

It is crazy how hell-bent he is on overturning anything Obama did. I mean, you'd think regulation on exposing workers to things like silica dust and beryllium would be no-brainers, but since Obama did it, it's gotta go.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Most of them are likely the same workers who voted for Trump.

It'd be interesting to hear what those people have to say about this.

[21Kid]

If I recall the article correctly, he was also prohibiting any jokes about his wealth.


There are two things in my mind, as to his reluctance releasing his taxes:

1: (and what I consider to be the more important one): it will be revealed he's nowhere near as well-off as he professes. In fact, I'd venture a guess it's that he's in the shit can.
2: Russia.

Either way, he's a fuck stain.WTF does #1 matter. I couldn't give two sharts how much our president is worth. I'd actually prefer he wasn't rolling in dough.

I think #2 is the only one that matters.

[21Kid]

It is crazy how hell-bent he is on overturning anything Obama did. I mean, you'd think regulation on exposing workers to things like silica dust and beryllium would be no-brainers, but since Obama did it, it's gotta go.I saw a meme where Trump brought Osama Bin Laden back from the dead to undo Obama's work.

[TheBenior]

WTF does #1 matter. I couldn't give two sharts how much our president is worth. I'd actually prefer he wasn't rolling in dough.
#1 probably matters more to Trump than #2. He's incredibly insecure.

[Freude am Fahren]

“I’ve been amazed and disappointed by so much of what this President had said, and his approach to running this country, which seems to be one of just a never-ending divisiveness. But his comments today about those who have lost loved ones in times of war and his lies that previous presidents Obama and Bush never contacted their families, is so beyond the pale, I almost don’t have the words.”

“This man in the Oval Office is a soulless coward who thinks that he can only become large by belittling others. This has of course been a common practice of his, but to do it in this manner – and to lie about how previous presidents responded to the deaths of soldiers – is as low as it gets. We have a pathological liar in the White House: unfit intellectually, emotionally, and psychologically to hold this office and the whole world knows it, especially those around him every day. The people who work with this President should be ashamed because they know it better than anyone just how unfit he is, and yet they choose to do nothing about it. This is their shame most of all.”
1 2

[Crazed_Insanity]

Was Popovich a supporter of Trump?

Donald Trump has been a disappointment to his non-supporters prior to being elected...

Personally, I'd like to hear more of his supporters chewing him out... but unfortunately his approval rating is still pretty steady...

Interestingly comparing him to past presidents, Trump is by far the worst in modern history:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

President Ford only started out higher, but sunk to the same low Trump level quickly.
President Clinton is the other president who actually briefly had lower ratings than Trump!

Ford was only in there to fill the gap of Nixon, we can only hope that Trump's time in the oval office will be a short one too.

All time low for a president was actually Jimmy Carter..., hopefully Trump will break that record before we boot him off so we can get Jimmy off the hook. ;)

[neanderthal]

"He knew what he was signing up for." Trump to a pregnant widow of one of the soldiers who were killed in Niger.

Holy fucking mackerel.

And there's still people out there saying give him a chance
.
He's done jack shit for 9 months. Nothing.

Especially nothing to make America great again. Not one thing.
And the GOP are just as complicit in his fuckery for refusing to impeach him. Emoluments; day 1.

[Freude am Fahren]

Ugh, we covered the arrival of that soldier's casket back here in south Florida today. It was pretty rough. I normally would be pretty annoyed about covering something like that so much, but the family wanted the media there to get more attention to it, and get more answers.

[Tom Servo]

FWIW, Trump is denying that he said that and claims to have proof. 'Course, he's claimed that before, so I think Michael Ian Black's prediction of how this will go is pretty accurate.



"Mr. President, when will you release your proof?"
"At the appropriate time."
"When is that?"
"A couple weeks."
*Eons pass*
"Now?"
"Soon."

[21Kid]

"He knew what he was signing up for." Trump to a pregnant widow of one of the soldiers who were killed in Niger.

Holy fucking mackerel.

And there's still people out there saying give him a chance
.
He's done jack shit for 9 months. Nothing.

Especially nothing to make America great again. Not one thing.
And the GOP are just as complicit in his fuckery for refusing to impeach him. Emoluments; day 1.
Not true. He has done something... He's went golfing hell of a lot.

[MR2 Fan]

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aMAOLMW_700b.jpg

[FaultyMario]

The three burials of Melquiades Estrada (http://theweek.com/speedreads/731710/white-house-asked-nafta-dead-answers-not).

[thesameguy]

This is political, right?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/3-years-ago-stockton-california-was-bankrupt-now-its-trying-out-a-basic-income/ar-AAtHdEi?li=AA4Zjn&ocid=ientp

I find this crazy... the murder capital of California funding a basic income trial using charity funds. That is some next-level stuff right there, I'm stunned.

[thesameguy]

The three burials of Melquiades Estrada (http://theweek.com/speedreads/731710/white-house-asked-nafta-dead-answers-not).

"We'll see what happens" is Trump-speak for "I'm ignorant on this topic so my ultimate decision making process and final opinion is totally unpredictable."

[FaultyMario]

His demands, at least in the auto manufacturing sections, do show that he is ignorant.

50% American components out of 85% NAFTA components in order for vehicles to vehicles reach no-tariffs is fankly stupid when Canadian an Mexican automakers could in turn play by WTO most favored nation rules and get 2.5% import tariffs into the U.S., much cheaper than re-organizing global supply chains.

[thesameguy]

I can probably accept he is good at real estate - he knows people and maybe knows how markets work or whatever - but he has zero background in or knowledge of anything else. I doubt he can conceive of the complexity of supply chains and thus he thinks he has some sort of control. It's the same with his wall - he doesn't understand the rights, construction, social effects, ongoing maintenance, etc. Or government - he doesn't understand what his job is, what areas he has influence in, or who he works with. I often wonder whether he knows he's ignorant or whether he thinks he gets it and that if he pushes harder he'll be proven right. We'll never know, but from my point of view he asinine demands of government, people, and industry make him look more like an idiot than his opinions on social issues. Lacking skill in government, or general business, or bringing people together and topping that all off with bluster and deceit makes him one of the most useless people on the planet. Certainly in politics. He brings demonstrably nothing to the table. He is so bad that I can't even remember how much I disliked the Bush family.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I reserve the right to change my mind later on, but at the moment, I can't say that I dislike Trump more than I dislike W. W pretty much allowed Enron to rob Califonia... and started a bogus war in Iraq. Those were some real, immediate hurtful things done to both Americans and people abroad.

Of course I know it's still early with the Trump admin, so hopefully Trump won't be as fucked up... we'll see.

The real hurtful thing Trump could do is with healthcare..., but the guy is so schizophrenic, who knows how that will end.

As for those trade stuff or paris accord things... those are just business dealings that can be changed at a moment's notice...

Anyway, I think Trump's unpredictability is probably due to him trying to cover too many bases... he had to keep his base happy, his real estate holdings profitable, his loyal friends happy, and especially the Russians happy... so naturally if you try to make all of them happy, you're going to end up looking like you're schizo or don't know what you're doing.

So far, I have to say W is still my worst modern president. I really do hope Trump won't keep pushing to win that honor. If the fucker starts a stupid war, then of course he for sure will win... let's hope not.

Hopefully his house of cards will come crashing down soon.

[MR2 Fan]

To me, W Bush was coerced by others into doing a lot of things as he wasn't too intelligent and easily conned into doing the will of others.

I don't think W is a bad human being...I think he has regrets.

Trump is a whole other level of insanity....it's clear he has absolutely no empathy or care about anyone but himself.

[FaultyMario]

I often wonder whether he knows he's ignorant or whether he thinks he gets it and that if he pushes harder he'll be proven right. We'll never know, but from my point of view he asinine demands of government, people, and industry make him look more like an idiot than his opinions on social issues. Lacking skill in government, or general business, or bringing people together and topping that all off with bluster and deceit makes him one of the most useless people on the planet. Certainly in politics. He brings demonstrably nothing to the table.

I had a boss like that once. Well, she was my boss's boss. But this lady was smart enough to have really OCD guy (same level as my boss) be a sort of technicalities comptroller. She'd say "I want a rainbow bridge from here to London!" and OCD guy would explain to her why that was impossible and get the project down to an intangible level, from there my boss' job would be to convince people to take on new responsibilities/give up old perks.

[FaultyMario]

To me, W Bush was coerced by others into doing a lot of things as he wasn't too intelligent and easily conned into doing the will of others.

I don't think W is a bad human being...I think he has regrets.

Trump is a whole other level of insanity....it's clear he has absolutely no empathy or care about anyone but himself.

Dubya is the pretty face among a gang of thugs. Likeable chap, but he is in a symbiotic relationship with the sinister six.

[21Kid]

I can probably accept he is good at real estate - Really? :? His dad handed him his multi-million dollar business. And he's barely made above average returns. And he's filed bankruptcy 6 times.

"I think it's a great time to start a mortgage company," Trump famously predicted to CNBC in April 2006. "The real-estate market is going to be very strong for a long time to come." Trump Mortgage shuttered in September 2007.

The only thing he is good at is putting his name on things.

[neanderthal]

Really? :? His dad handed him his multi-million dollar business. And he's barely made above average returns. And he's filed bankruptcy 6 times.

"I think it's a great time to start a mortgage company," Trump famously predicted to CNBC in April 2006. "The real-estate market is going to be very strong for a long time to come." Trump Mortgage shuttered in September 2007.

The only thing he is good at is putting his name on things.

"If he'd simply invested the money he inherited he'd be $17billion richer than he is." Some economist. Don't remember who. Or where.

[thesameguy]

To me, W Bush was coerced by others into doing a lot of things as he wasn't too intelligent and easily conned into doing the will of others.

I don't think W is a bad human being...I think he has regrets.

Trump is a whole other level of insanity....it's clear he has absolutely no empathy or care about anyone but himself.


Here's a sampling:

- “Bigotry seems emboldened. Our politics seems more vulnerable to conspiracy theories and outright fabrication.”
- “We’ve seen nationalism distorted into nativism.”
- “We’ve seen our discourse degraded by casual cruelty. . . . Argument turns too easily into animosity.”
- “It means that bigotry and white supremacy in any form is blasphemy against the American creed, and it means the very identity of our nation depends on passing along civic ideals.”
- “Bullying and prejudice in our public life … provides permission for cruelty and bigotry.”
- “The only way to pass along civic values is to live up to them.”



Not bad.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I tend to think both W and trump are both puppets... there are probably way more conflicting strings pulling on trump.

In terms of intelligence, trump must not be that stupid to not squandered all of his dad's fortunes... it also must take something special to grow his stupid brand for this long... obviously he's not a top notch index fund manager, but given all that wealth, most Americans for sure won't end up where he is.

Anyway, not going to attack W personally but only at his administration... under such period was the rise of Enron... and such greed ultimately nearly meltdown all of the world. Let's just forget about the stupid war he started...

Trump has just started a lot of social/political crap, from the wall to trades to climate accords to red neck supremacy... , yes, they all fucking suck and scary but at least no actual harm done yet... if these things can all become real, then I'd rank trump below W.

Trump is definitely the least presidential, but not yet the worst president imho

[thesameguy]

Sad that nukular war with North Korea has to be our metric. :smh:

[neanderthal]

While most people were busy being outraged at Drumpfs words to a widow, Congress quietly passed a tax reform bill that is heinous at best and deplorable at worst.

Putin's boy and the GOP are now working on concert.

[neanderthal]

Theory i've heard.

The four soldiers in Niger were killed because of Trump.
Trumps admin requested countries send a sample passport for evaluation of security.
Chad, the country, ran out of passport paper and submitted a demo that was found inadequate by Trump admin. Chad, the country, was then placed on the list of countries in the Muslim ban. They were withdrawing their troops from Niger when the soldiers were attacked.

More to the theory about inadequate flight cover/ support. Travelling in un- armored light trucks. Etc

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm beginning to see the benefits of a trump admin..., don't get me wrong, trump as a president obviously isn't beneficial to America, but all the horrible crap that he has stirred up may result in some benefits...

For example, the end of political correctness... this damn thing has given us a false sense of security. Besides the emboldened red neck supremacists, it has also opened the eyes of the rest of us non-red neck folks that we are still quite far from dr kings dream...

The threat of a wall and fucking with NAFTA probably has also emboldened Mexicans more..., in the end, this actually could be great for Mexico!

Likewise with the rest of the world, they can no longer count on the US, so with less and less reliance on the US, each nation will likely become stronger and more independent... the good thing would be that in case US has another meltdown, it will impact the rest of the world less...

I also wonder if these prevailing negative attitude has also contributed to the demise of Harvey Weinstein...?

So I do believe trump admin perhaps has done some indirect good things to help make this world better... one just hopes that trump only talks the talk, but won't ever walk the walk...

If he has never actually grabbed any pussy cats, I'd feel better about our future... if he really does the crap that he said, then of course we're all gonna be screwed. Fingers crossed.

[FaultyMario]

The threat of a wall and fucking with NAFTA probably has also emboldened Mexicans more..., in the end, this actually could be great for Mexico!

There's a lot of of ifs for that to work.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think one would be more motivated to make those ifs happen when disrespected and bullied enough.

When America was seemingly nicer, it was much easier to exploit the Mexicans... just as Wells Fargo bank can appear to be nice to everybody including gays while being an equal opportunity money stealing bank behind customers back...

Or creating great oscar winning movies while grabbing actresses pussies...

That was the previous America...

Looks great, but not really that great.

[Tom Servo]

All of this recent Trump stuff reminds me of the parable of the Scorpion and the Frog.

A frog needs to cross a river. The scorpion says "Get on my back and I'll take you across." The frog says, "But what if you sting me?" The scorpion says, "I won't sting you, I promise."

So the frog gets on the scorpion's back and they start to swim across. After a few seconds, the scorpion says, "You know, frogs are rapists, and murderers, and I'm gonna build a wall to keep you all out." Then he says, "This is what disabled frogs are like," and he makes a series of unpleasant gestures. Then he says, "I grabbed a bunch of frogs by the frog pussy, and I'm a star, so they let me do it."

The frog remained quiet, but he was getting a little, like, freaked out.

Then the scorpion said, "John McCain isn't a hero because he got captured," and "STDs are my Vietnam", and "I know more than generals." Then he said, "Obama wasn't born in the U.S. and I have proof." The frog said "What is it?" but the scorpion didn't say.

Then the scorpion's whole family met with Russian oligarchs in secret. "That's illegal," said the frog. "Fake news," said the scorpion." "But I'm literally watching it happen, right in front of me," said the frog. "The NFL players shouldn't kneel!" said the scorpion.

The frog got confused because the subject had changed to NFL players kneeling. The frog was pretty mentally fatigued, by this point.

Then the scorpion dismantled a bunch of safety regulations and appointed a ton of awful judges and tried to ban entire religions.

"Where are we going," asked the frog suddenly, "this isn't the way across." "I'm going golfing for the 75th time in 10 months," he said. "That seems like a lot," said the frog. "Fuck you, I'm the scorpion, I can do whatever. Also, who are you and why are you on my back?"

"I'm the frog," he said. "Do you have advanced dementia?" "No! My brain great! I'm the smartest scorpion in the..." He looked confused.

"...The world?" asked the frog. But the scorpion was just watching TV and yelling at the screen. Then he dozed off.

The frog was freaked out. He read an article in the NY Times that some frogs in the Midwest still liked the scorpion. It was pointless.

When they got to the riverbed, he hopped off. Then the scorpion stung him! As he was dying, the frog said, "Why did you do that?" The scorpion replied, "I don't fucking know. Why do I do anything? I'm 71, a complete asshole, and my brain has massively deteriorated. But you guys elected me -- well, you and the Russians -- and the GOP is so horny for tax cuts for rich people they won't do shit. Am I sorry I stung you? No. I could care less. Business at my riverbank hotel is up 30%. I'm rolling in dough. Also, who are you?"

The frog died. The scorpion was last seen getting into a limo with Lindsey Graham, wearing a polo shirt and dark pants.

And that's the ancient fable of the Scorpion and the Frog. You can see why it sort of reminds me of what's going on.


Stupid minimum character limit and quotes.

[Cam]

:lol:

:(

[thesameguy]

Ace.

But, yeah, :(

[balki]

Has Trump declassified anything interesting, yet?

[drew]

He hasn't decclassified anything (at least in regard to the JFK stuff), it was a plan in motion from years ago. He's just taking credit for it.

[dodint]

I 'know' a guy in the Czech Republic. He's a college professor over there, does a lot with investing. He shared this today, in case you think America has the market cornered on shitty elections:


A sign No. 3454 that we are moving toward the Apocalypse - the results of the Czech elections (the country where the government used to switch between the "main boring right wing party" and the "main boring right wing party")

First place (about 30%): A one-man party of a food industry billionaire who is currently investigated for corruption. He most likely used to be an informant of the Czechoslovak Communist secret Police before 1989. An, interestingly, the winner of Czech election happens to be a born-and-raised Slovak citizen (who switched citizenship after the split of Czechoslovakia in 1993)

Second place (about 11%): the "main boring right wing party".

Third place (over 10%): the Pirates. Yes, the f&*%ing Pirates who advocate free file sharing, and their main platform is "we are against the Man"...

Fourth place (over 10%): an "anti-immigration" (any type - legal, illegal, but naturally mainly Muslim) party lead by - and yes, I'm serious - a son of a half Japanese/half Korean father who spent most of his childhood in Tokyo

Fifth place (8%): hardcore Communists

A total of nine(!!) parties went over the mandatory threshold of 5% that guarantees Parliamentary seats

[Cam]

:twitch:

[thesameguy]

It's fine. The universe probably doesn't even exist anyway.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Matrix is about to reload!

[G'day Mate]

Is this the Bad Place? Janet?

[thesameguy]

What.


Trump has also attempted to use food to establish superiority over his colleagues. According to TIME, the president gets two scoops of ice cream after dinner while everyone else gets one.

[MR2 Fan]

What.

Yeah, that came out a while ago...he's a child

[drew]

A child with very dangerous toys.

[sandydandy]

Have the JFK classified documents been released yet? I imagine they’ll be heavily redacted, so won’t be much of a release.

I’d be more interested if he released stuff on UFOs/aliens/Roswell/Area 51.

[MR2 Fan]

I'm FAR from an expert on Uranium, but I seem to recall that during these deals, specifically with Iran, there was a deal made about sending them uranium that cannot be used for weapons. It seems like that part of the topic is never brought up when discussing these situations...and the same with the Russia one.

I thought we were sending uranium that can be used for power, but not easily converted for weapons

[MR2 Fan]

in other news....MANY signs are pointing to Mueller handing out his first indictments of Trump associates in the coming weeks.

This is why we're suddenly seeing a huge uptick in Hillary blaming for various things as Trump & his Russian bots attempt to muddy the facts of the situation.

[21Kid]

I hope so... I don't know how we haven't seen anything yet just from the Emolument's clause (http://www.npr.org/2017/09/05/548002254/professor-37-historic-dictionaries-disagree-with-trumps-definition-of-emolument).
After all of his foreign visitor's to his private resort. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40639370)
Talking about classified information in an open setting (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html). Seriously? How is this not front page news every day? Is this not the very definition of Treason? Helping one's enemy?
I'm sure there are a few more (http://robertreich.org/post/159255024465). I just don't have the energy to go over them all again.

[thesameguy]

Lindsay Graham said this:


"Well, I think all of us realize that if we fail on taxes, that's the end of the Republican Party's governing majority in 2018," he said. "We'll lose the House, probably lose ground in the Senate. And President Trump has got a profile different from the party - there's kinda two or three different Republican Parties now, I guess. But we're all in it together."

and I found it very interesting. It seems like he believes the GOP's attraction is its fiscal policy, but I don't believe it. I think the modern GOP's attraction is its anti-people policy, its anti-everyone's who's not a rich white man policy. Even though Trump was the winner, every one on deck on '16 was against at least one group of people, and Trump is opposed to pretty much everyone. I think if the GOP fails on tax reform it won't mean anything... none of the bigoted, prejudiced, racist asswipes are going to vote for a commie just because the GOP failed to lower taxes. They'll blame the failure on the commies, redouble their efforts, and get someone who offers even more outrageous rhetoric, won't they? If there was a "Republican" who wanted to cut taxes and programs and increase the self-oversight of states but who was demonstrably committed to atheist homosexual black female veteran small business owners, I'd consider that person. Probably wouldn't get my vote, but I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand. What scares me most about Graham's comment is that if he believes fiscal policy is the GOP's defining characteristic, then he must also fundamentally accept the GOP's social policy is effectively beyond reproach... In my mind, that's a complete and total misunderstanding of the problem. I mean, at the end of the day maybe more Federal programs/oversight/meddling is good and maybe it's not. The specifics and the degrees and the implementation are debatable. What's not debatable is equal chances, opportunities, safety, justice, and health. The Constitution largely leaves business open for discussion; it pretty much defines how people should be treated. We should be able to discuss the former objectively and critically. The latter shouldn't even be a discussion.

[neanderthal]

What blows my mind is how the Kansas debacle is not brought up EVERY TIME the Republicans bring up tax cuts.

Congress critter: We believe that ... tax cuts... prosperity and jobs.. the entire economy ... blah blah blah.
Reporter: The results achieved in Kansas with largely the same cuts inspired very different results. Care to comment on that?
CC: Well ... unrelated... isolated incident... single example... supply side economics...
Reporter #2: Can you explain how the results achieved in Kansas would be avoided while following the exact same trajectory as they took? Etc etc etc

We seriously need to "flat earth' that tax cuts nonsense.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The Constitution largely leaves business open for discussion; it pretty much defines how people should be treated. We should be able to discuss the former objectively and critically. The latter shouldn't even be a discussion.

Problem with the us constitution is that it's only applicable for us citizens. Our govt doesn't have to be civil/humane in Cuba for example. Once your are a possible enemy of the state, we can fuck with you however we want.

We also have a tradition to believe that 'all men' doesn't really include women nor nonwhites.

Rather than relying on several amendments to help steer the nation on the right path, a truly great america needs to be able to treat everyone the same.

[MR2 Fan]

in other news....MANY signs are pointing to Mueller handing out his first indictments of Trump associates in the coming weeks.

This is why we're suddenly seeing a huge uptick in Hillary blaming for various things as Trump & his Russian bots attempt to muddy the facts of the situation.


Quoting myself as it may be sooner than I thought!

Exclusive: First charges filed in Mueller investigation

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/27/politics/first-charges-mueller-investigation/index.html


SHIT JUST GOT REAL

[G'day Mate]

:popcorn:

[thesameguy]

Word.

[Fogelhund]

George Takei‏Verified account @GeorgeTakei 2h2 hours ago

It’s rather surreal that when we hear “charges have been filed,” we don’t even know which of the criminals in the White House is up first.

[drew]

:lol:

[Jason]

A big part of me is expecting charges against Democrats. Because that's where we're at now.

[thesameguy]

I wouldn't entirely rule that out, but none of the news thus far seems to suggest it. I think the first round will end up being private citizens like Manafort - people on the periphery of the elections who leveraged shady business connections improperly. Mueller is not fucking around.

[drew]

My money is on Manafort's attorney.

It also makes you wonder what's in store for Flynn. He's not been mentioned in months. He, Carter Page, or Comey.

[neanderthal]

Anyone see Joy Reid shut some liar down on AM Joy, who was pontificating about Uranium something something.

[Tom Servo]

I saw a bunch of people mentioning it, but I feel so defeated at this point. It doesn't matter what's true, it matters what people believe, and that very fatigue I wanted to warn people about has caught up with me.

[drew]

Mueller's team announces charges, Trump goes right to his staple card "Clinton..."


It'd be comical if it wasn't so predictably stupid.

[G'day Mate]

Ooh, who's on the shit-list?

[edit] Hang on, too early to know yet isn't it.

[Tom Servo]

So far, it's Paul Manafort and Richard Gates. Still haven't seen all the details, but I think I heard 12 counts including conspiracy against the United States.

[Fogelhund]

Boy Trump is going nuts on Tweeter.... it's kind of funny. Why aren't they going after Hillary? haha... He's guilty and knows it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

All I'm hoping is that the swamp is properly drained so that we can have more Bernie Sanders working the government.

[Fogelhund]

Ex-Trump advisor George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty to lying to FBI agents, authorities reveal
A former Trump campaign foreign policy advisor has pleaded guilty to making false statements to federal agents about contacts with Russian nationals.
Court filings say George Papadopolous was arrested in July and entered a plea deal earlier this month.

[thesameguy]

I'm going to feel a little let down if it's just Manafort and Gates. We knew they were dirty a year and a half ago. It's a sick commentary on this country where they'll bust you for drugs on sight, but if you work for a foreign country and launder tens of millions of dollars they won't do anything for 18 months, and might not do anything at all unless a special counsel is appointed. Weak sauce, US, weak sauce.

[MR2 Fan]

I'm going to feel a little let down if it's just Manafort and Gates. We knew they were dirty a year and a half ago. It's a sick commentary on this country where they'll bust you for drugs on sight, but if you work for a foreign country and launder tens of millions of dollars they won't do anything for 18 months, and might not do anything at all unless a special counsel is appointed. Weak sauce, US, weak sauce.

It won't be just them....this is step 1

[thesameguy]

I hope so - obviously Manafort was low-hanging fruit, and there is a good chance Manafort is going to sing like a bird to win favor... but, still, I was hoping for a legit roundup this morning. I guess it's a little sick, but it's a sick world!

I can only imagine what's happening with Trump's inner circle right now. They gotta be quaking right now, worried what Manafort is going to say - true or not!

I still maintain what I said above - this isn't going to change anything. The Cheetoans in this country are going to blame all of this on establishment conspiracy and redouble their efforts to get us all blown up. It's not going to change how anybody thinks or feels or acts. All we're doing is learning about shitty things that can happen, not how to actually act and treat each other. Not surprisingly, this is real reality TV.

[MR2 Fan]

Things will improve I think, but it's sad we have to get to the brink of catastrophe first

[thesameguy]

This is the good stuff:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/timeline-campaign-knew-russia-had-clinton-emails-months-before-trump-joke/ar-AAuf6Z5?ocid=ientp


On or about March 14: Papadopoulos met a London-based professor that claimed to have "substantial connections with Russian government officials."

March 19: Russian hackers successfully hacked Clinton campaign head John Podesta's email account.

March 24: A professor introduced Papadopoulos to an alleged niece of Russian President Vladimir Putin. According to the court documents, Papadopoulos told his campaign supervisor the subject of the meeting was "to arrange a meeting between us and the Russian leadership to discuss U.S.-Russia ties under President Trump." "Great work," replied the supervisor, who said he would work the offer through the campaign. The supervisor is not named.

Papadopoulos would later find out the so-called niece was not, in fact, related to Putin.

April: Papadopoulos maintained contact with both the woman and professor to set up a meeting throughout April, keeping the campaign apprised of his contact.

April 29: The professor told Papadopoulos the Russians had "thousands" of Clinton's emails containing dirt. The next day, Papadopoulos thanked the professor for his help setting up a possible meeting between Russians and Trump.


July 29: Three months after the Trump campaign was first told that Russian operatives had Clinton emails, Trump said "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press." Later that day, he tweeted "If Russia or any other country or person has Hillary Clinton's 33,000 illegally deleted emails, perhaps they should share them with the FBI!"


August 15: Papadapoulos said: "I would encourage you [and another foreign policy advisor to] make the trip[], if it is feasible."

The trip never occurred.


Odd that the trip didn't happen - maybe Trump calling attention to the facts was a problem - but as (I guess) has been established, a failed or aborted collusion effort is still collusion.

[MR2 Fan]

In other important news that is being LEFT OUT BY THE CROOKED LAMESTREAM MEDIA, wait it's from CNN, nevermind:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/30/technology/google-cheeseburger-emoji/index.html?sr=twmoney103017google-cheeseburger-emoji/0635PMVODtopLink&linkId=44111174

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, I think Manafort and Gates were easy enough to get and not the keys to getting more people. Papadopoulos was arrested in July, but plead guilty to one charge in early October and the whole thing was kept secret until today. My guess is he's been wearing a wire and singing like a canary this whole time. Clovis and Sessions are two people who might be real nervous right now.

[Freude am Fahren]

In other important news that is being LEFT OUT BY THE CROOKED LAMESTREAM MEDIA, wait it's from CNN, nevermind:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/30/technology/google-cheeseburger-emoji/index.html?sr=twmoney103017google-cheeseburger-emoji/0635PMVODtopLink&linkId=44111174

https://scontent-mia3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23031299_10107358397050172_6008588453425869047_n.j pg?oh=01a58e7306e75ad3457fef904c92207a&oe=5A6BD6BD

[21Kid]

I'm going to feel a little let down if it's just Manafort and Gates. We knew they were dirty a year and a half ago. It's a sick commentary on this country where they'll bust you for drugs on sight, but if you work for a foreign country and launder tens of millions of dollars they won't do anything for 18 months, and might not do anything at all unless a special counsel is appointed. Weak sauce, US, weak sauce.I hate to say it... but, it seems like the media is partly to blame. If they could keep these issues as headline stories EVERY DAY! instead of the latest "guess what stupid thing Trump did now!" there would be a lot more pressure on people to do something about it. The fact that these things are getting left in the dust makes it seem like people don't care about it.

No one's even talking about the Emoluents clause any more. And that has been a clear problem since Day 1. Hell, before he even took office! He's even flaunted it by meeting with foreign dignitaries at Mar-A-Lago. Speaking of which... Does anyone remember that he revealed intelligence secrets to Russians (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia/trump-revealed-intelligence-secrets-to-russians-in-oval-office-officials-idUSKCN18B2MX)?!? This shit just gets pushed further down the page, because we obsess with all of the newest/latest. (Nothing on the news about this since MAY!!!)

Keep bringing up this important shit!!!

[thesameguy]

It's very true. I suspect you get a more "list of shit" approach from hard-core, partisan news sites whereas mainstream media sells headlines and behaves accordingly, but I don't know because I really don't pay that much attention.

OTOH, I wonder if it matters. I know my brain works differently than most - I always assume if nobody is talking about it, nobody is doing anything about it. That's really an insane way of thinking, but I can't stop so whatever. It's not unfathomable that the way this ends up working is that everyone is just looking for what sticks... throwing stuff out until something happens, the public reacts, etc. and then once that ball is rolling we can circle back and dredge up all the old shit. I mean, Manafort has been under investigation for YEARS, and they have suspicions dating back a decade. It wasn't until there was possible election-fixing on the table that "we" actually started doing something and now that whole ten year period is under scrutiny.

If Trump does down, it will probably be in the same way. He's done a bunch of "little insane" things but he hasn't actually started WWIII or repealed the Civil Rights Act, so it's just death by a thousand cuts. But if, for example, Steyer's impeachment effort picks up steam you can bet all these small-scale actions will be compiled into a sweet, sweet Powerpoint to paint a picture of someone who is actually wacky and unhinged.

But, seriously, it doesn't matter. Reality TV has literally ruined this country. People need to stop worrying about violent video games murdering children and start worrying what reality TV is doing to society. I'm not joking, not even a little bit.

[MR2 Fan]

looks like some Fox staffers are not happy about their own channel:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/31/media/fox-news-employees-russia-mueller-coverage/index.html

[Crazed_Insanity]

Slightly off topic, the recent sex scandals are going down in similar fashion I believe.

Reality TV mentality is giving us these "leaders", but I'm kinda glad that now the swamp is beginning to drain. So maybe it's not all bad.

[Freude am Fahren]

You know I've been thinking about this "draining the swamp" bullshit for a while now. Despite the fact that it was exactly that, bullshit, if you drain a swamp, you destroy an eco system (probably two, depending on where you 'drain' it to), and it smells fucking awful.

[thesameguy]

Slightly off topic, the recent sex scandals are going down in similar fashion I believe.

Reality TV mentality is giving us these "leaders", but I'm kinda glad that now the swamp is beginning to drain. So maybe it's not all bad.

Don't bank on it. People change when they need to change, and right now we have isolated examples of people who got caught screwing around, not any sort of systemic reboot. For every outcome where the Democrats realize they are too center, the Republicans realize they've been overtaken by oddly evangelical libertarians, everyone realizes that what you look like, who you fuck, and where you shit has sod all to do with anything, and we have reached a point where straight capitalism is actively working against us there are 10 outcomes where the only thing that changes is people get better at covering their tracks. I don't like being so pessimistic, but the election of Trump however it actually came to pass proves to me that the balance of people who get it vs the people that don't is way too close for anyone's good. Until that balance shifts really dramatically we're going to continue to expend our energy perfecting exploiting the system and not improving the conditions for people. I thought going into the Obama years people had caught a glimpse of the future and realized it was time for course correction. With the election of Trump, it's clear people think they can outmaneuver the ice berg. Hey, I hope they're right - I hope there are opportunities and efficiencies we can still win. But I don't actually believe there are. I think this hot rod has been pushed as far as it can go and it's time to bolt the fenders back on, put the AC back in, and swap out the fiery V8 for a more economical straight six. If we don't, it's probably just going to end in a fireball.

[novicius]

If Trump gets indicted, will he be tried as an adult?
:lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think it's obvious now that whether we have appointed kings or democratically elected leaders, it's always possible for stupid to somehow land on top of that leadership role. There's no perfect system to weed out stupidity. We could also appoint or elect a perfectly smart leader, but while sitting on that throne, his new found powers could also begin to corrupt him into stupidity.

Take the US financial crisis... our secret dealings and fallouts with terrorists around the world, those things weren't created by Trump... and I fully expect more 'corrections' to happen..., but I'm not a prophet or fortune teller. Who knows what'd in store for the future. We can always hope for the best and make sure whatever we're doing won't contribute to us crashing...

[novicius]

Poll: Vast majority of Trump voters say he should stay in office even if Russia collusion is proven (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/357995-dem-pollster-vast-majority-of-trump-voters-say-he-should-stay-in)

The problem isn't Trump, it's his voter demographics. #shrug

[thesameguy]

Yup.

I think it's been adequately shown that Trump doesn't have an original idea in his head - he is possibly the most representative official in office. He's got these crazy supporters and he is crazy in response. He is doing (or trying to do) exactly what they want. Getting rid of him won't fix them.

[MR2 Fan]

what's ironic is that the only things Trump supporters ever point to about why they like him are that he "says it like it is", has a travel ban and wants a wall, and the economy is doing well, even though he hasn't really successfully DONE anything except for small parts of a travel ban.

Anyway, I think people need to investigate Rupert Murdoch to see what ties he has to Russia

[Fogelhund]

It's going to be interesting how they take ownership of the oncoming recession and bear market.....

[drew]

600+ shot by rich white guy "too soon to talk policy"

25 ran down by Uzbekistanian "MORE VETTING"

Seriously, fuck off with this shit.

[MR2 Fan]

600+ shot by rich white guy "too soon to talk policy"

25 ran down by Uzbekistanian "MORE VETTING"

Seriously, fuck off with this shit.

and only one of them was with a gun....so that easily changes the narrative in their minds.

[neanderthal]

600+ shot by rich white guy "too soon to talk policy"

25 ran down by Uzbekistanian "MORE VETTING"

Seriously, fuck off with this shit.

I'm seriously tired.

[neanderthal]

Anybody see Tomi Lauren (some vacuous twunt) all dolled up in US flag attire? Yet she was calling Kaeps protest disrespectful to the flag?

Where were all the "it's disrespectful to the flag' mouth breathers?


The double standard that exists in this country, ... i'm just tired.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yup.

I think it's been adequately shown that Trump doesn't have an original idea in his head - he is possibly the most representative official in office. He's got these crazy supporters and he is crazy in response. He is doing (or trying to do) exactly what they want. Getting rid of him won't fix them.

His crazy base consists of at most 30+%, by any democratic standards, shouldn't be elected at all.

He is in office not just because of stupid voters, but because of angry voters who dislike what democrats had to offer too.

If our government can only offers us evil choices to vote for, its little wonder our government remains evil regardless of who's in charge.

Point is, though it's obvious we have stupid voters, but I don't believe voters are to blamed.

Getting rid of trump will only mean there will probably be another stupid or establishment approved status quo loving prez...

The bright side is that at least we do have some sensible politicians around ... so not all hope is lost.

[Fogelhund]

600+ shot by rich white guy "too soon to talk policy"

25 ran down by Uzbekistanian "MORE VETTING"

Seriously, fuck off with this shit.

THIS!!!

[neanderthal]

His crazy base consists of at most 30+%, by any democratic standards, shouldn't be elected at all.

He is in office not just because of stupid voters, but because of angry voters who dislike what democrats had to offer too.

If our government can only offers us evil choices to vote for, its little wonder our government remains evil regardless of who's in charge.

Point is, though it's obvious we have stupid voters, but I don't believe voters are to blamed.

Getting rid of trump will only mean there will probably be another stupid or establishment approved status quo loving prez...

The bright side is that at least we do have some sensible politicians around ... so not all hope is lost.

If you didn't vote, you contributed to this; you're to blame. If you voted for anyone other than Hillary, you contributed to this; you're to blame.

Abdication of responsibility doesn't absolve you.

[MR2 Fan]

If you didn't vote, you contributed to this; you're to blame. If you voted for anyone other than Hillary, you contributed to this; you're to blame.

Abdication of responsibility doesn't absolve you.

QFMFT

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm sorry. I still don't believe Hillary would be the right choice. "Better" choice perhaps, but definitely still the wrong choice for America.

I would've voted for her in a heart beat if I don't know Bernie Sanders exists.

I would've voted for her if she at least pretend to adopt Bernie's message... and not cozy up with Wall Street and Silicon Valley and to at least pretend to try to narrow the gap between rich and poor..., but she doesn't really care for my vote.

Anyway, she is the wrong choice... this is a conclusion I've reached independent of how stupid Trump is.

BTW, I'll take back the part about voters shouldn't be blamed, I suppose voters do share some responsibility, but ultimately, the voters do not have the real powers to make any changes. The system is rigged for the establishment.

[G'day Mate]

600+ shot by rich white guy "too soon to talk policy"

25 ran down by Uzbekistanian "MORE VETTING"

Seriously, fuck off with this shit.

You can add "DEATH PENALTY!" to that now

[Tom Servo]

Dear leader doesn't understand the justice system, as having done that will make it a hell of a lot easier for this guy's defense to pick who they want for a jury. Really easy to say that potential jurors have been tainted by hearing the POTUS already declare someone is guilty and deserving of the death penalty.

[novicius]

Itemized list of Sarah Huckabee Sanders' lies at the podium, compiled by Seth Abramson. (https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/925063522182197254)

:smh:

[KillerB]

I wish I’d had a chance to be in my house for a full year so I could actually figure out what the impact of this tax bill would actually be. As it stands, it seems as if I’d get fucked since I lose my ability to deduct state income tax. On the other hand, I’m pretty sure my wife and I were going to get hit with the AMT, and this plan eliminates it, so there may actually be a net benefit for us, since as it stands now, existing mortgages over $500k would get to keep their interest deductions.

I still think this is not a good a plan.

[Crazed_Insanity]

When was the last time Trump came up with a good plan?

And even if your taxes came out ahead in the end, surely you still won't feel it's a good plan.

Anyway, money is kinda tight for me... so I do hope I won't be hit too severely...

[neanderthal]

I'm sorry. I still don't believe Hillary would be the right choice. "Better" choice perhaps, but definitely still the wrong choice for America.

I would've voted for her in a heart beat if I don't know Bernie Sanders exists.

I would've voted for her if she at least pretend to adopt Bernie's message... and not cozy up with Wall Street and Silicon Valley and to at least pretend to try to narrow the gap between rich and poor..., but she doesn't really care for my vote.

Anyway, she is the wrong choice... this is a conclusion I've reached independent of how stupid Trump is.

BTW, I'll take back the part about voters shouldn't be blamed, I suppose voters do share some responsibility, but ultimately, the voters do not have the real powers to make any changes. The system is rigged for the establishment.

The choice was Hillary or Trump. One of those two was going to be the next President. Nobody else, just one out of those two.

If you didn't vote, or you voted for anyone other than Hillary YOU. ARE. RESPONSIBLE. < Did I emphasise that enough? Do I need to repeat it?

Nelson fucking Mandela had as much chance as Bernie Sanders of becoming President, and he's fucking dead. And he wasn't born in this country. And he wasn't running. That's how much fucking chance Bernie Sanders had at winning. It doesn't matter who is a better politician, who had a better message, or any of that other shit, it was a simple BINARY choice. And YOU CHOSE WRONG. Live with it.

Let me take you back to third grade. You're learning shapes. You're instructed to draw a circle around the square. You draw a circle around a parallelogram instead, using 9 year old logic to say they both have four sides. Guess what, a square is a parallelogram but a parallelogram isn't necessarily a square. You're that dumb kid that thinks he's clever. Every third party voter is. You're not that fucking clever because you've fucked everybody and now you're trying to tell everybody that a square is a parallelogram. Guess what muthafucker; a PARALLELOGRAM ISN'T NECESSARILY A SQUARE.

Voters don't have the power to make change? Buy a newspaper. Actually, since you're reading this from a computer, google Iceland. Google Rwanda. Google any number of countries where the people were fed up of their government and had an election. Americans are too comfortable; they get fucked by their government but nothing substantive changes in their lives. They still have a car and a job and a fridge full of food and a satellite tv with 300 channels, half of which are shopping channels. This is why we have the system we have. We're not angry.

[KillerB]

I would argue that, if you’re a California voter, voting for a third party is not de facto Trump support. Running up the score in CA wouldn’t (and didn’t) get Clinton any closer to winning.

I’m also not sure that this is a productive argument a year after the election, anyway. Is it 2018 yet?

[MR2 Fan]

I would argue that, if you’re a California voter, voting for a third party is not de facto Trump support. Running up the score in CA wouldn’t (and didn’t) get Clinton any closer to winning.

I’m also not sure that this is a productive argument a year after the election, anyway. Is it 2018 yet?

and that's part of the reason why we should get rid of the electoral college

[Crazed_Insanity]

and that's part of the reason why we should get rid of the electoral college
Ironically, I think founding fathers probably created electoral college to prevent stupid voters electing somebody like Trump...

Neanderthal, Hillary lost. Get over it.

I'm one of the angry voters who wish to send DNC a message not to fuck with Sanders again. Not going to play the lesser of the 2 evil game.

It was a foregone conclusion that Hillary is going to have California... and I just want to make sure she won't win by a landslide in CA.

If I live in a Red State, I'd still vote Jill Stein. Yeah, that'd give advantage to Trump, but so what?

This angry voter just wish to punish the DNC for actually having a good candidate available, yet still chooses to give us the lesser of the 2 evil.

Finally, it's time for this bull shit 2 party thing to stop.

Our ballot is not just a choice between true or false. Voters have more than 2 options. If most voters are too stupid to think outside of the stupid 2 party voting, that's not my problem. I don't have to jump off a cliff just because you all do. I know I'm being dragged off a cliff along with everyone else anyway..., but with 2 different cliffs to be dragged off of, it really makes no difference which one to me. :p

If my cliff analogy is too extreme... think of it this way...

Where would you deposit your money? Wells Fargo Bank or Bank of Trump?

Bank of Trump obviously sucks.

Wells Fargo is a great looking bank on the outside. Also very politically correct, won't every say anything offensive, and they love promoting gay rights/marriage or whatever great social causes. It's just that they would secretly steal customer's money when nobody's looking.

Do we really only have these 2 banking choices?

Fuck that shit. I'll stuff my money in Nelson Mandela's mattress if I have to.

[Tom Servo]

Abandon all hope, ye who...well...were pretty much already here.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/2/16588964/america-epistemic-crisis

https://www.vox.com/2017/10/31/16579820/mueller-clinton-russia-uranium-manafort-charlie-sykes

[MR2 Fan]

Billi, you're talking about fighting 2 different battles here, one is primary and one is election.

If it wasn't for the WORST candidate and now WORST president we've ever had, I could see your point, but there are NO redeeming qualities about Trump...PERIOD. I never thought I'd look back fondly at the days of the W. Bush administration, but here we are.

The only reasonable option was to choose Hillary, because we're seeing the effects of what happens when Trump takes over....the only good part is that we haven't started WWIII....YET and all of the russian deals are starting to haunt him.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If there were collusion or whatever other impeachable offenses, surely he'll be removed while in office sooner or later.

Hillary, OTOH, will most likely not going to be impeached during her term. Surely she'll be much craftier at hiding things.

If Trump could really hold on for 4 years... or the unthinkable 8 years..., I've gotta hand it to him for such achievement.

Regarding world wars, I really doubt Trump would want to risk destroying his hotels... The guy is an annoying loud mouth and has yet to delivered what he promised. So hopefully the trend continues.

[thesameguy]

I would argue that, if you’re a California voter, voting for a third party is not de facto Trump support. Running up the score in CA wouldn’t (and didn’t) get Clinton any closer to winning.

I’m also not sure that this is a productive argument a year after the election, anyway. Is it 2018 yet?

Xerox.

[thesameguy]

Ironically, I think founding fathers probably created electoral college to prevent stupid voters electing somebody like Trump...

That would be consistent with their apparent behavior, yes. They didn't think we could be trusted, for these exact reasons. :lol:

[MR2 Fan]

That would be consistent with their apparent behavior, yes. They didn't think we could be trusted, for these exact reasons. :lol:

Well to your point, they were also tasked with overturning a result if it was deemed that the voter base was insane, misled, etc. just like a Judge in a court case....and technically some SHOULD have overturned the results this time.

[thesameguy]

True, true, But overturning a presidential election would be one hell of a slippery slope and a dramatic shift in the balance of power. Possibly an unhealthy shift. Not sure I'd actually like to see that.

Unrelated:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/brazile-hillary-rigged-dnc-against-bernie/ar-AAumfqZ?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp

Hillary Clinton: A model of American ethics

[MR2 Fan]

True, true, But overturning a presidential election would be one hell of a slippery slope and a dramatic shift in the balance of power. Possibly an unhealthy shift. Not sure I'd actually like to see that.

Unrelated:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/brazile-hillary-rigged-dnc-against-bernie/ar-AAumfqZ?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp

Hillary Clinton: A model of American ethics


Yeah, the problem is, no matter what we do right now...we're screwed because there's a large segment of the population that has been brainwashed and conditioned to go into absolute craziness if anything happens.

[G'day Mate]

Trump nominating a new head of the Federal Reserve - is that just another move to remove someone Obama put in, just for the sake of it?

Most of them either seem to last about 10 years if they get through the first couple, but the current one has been in for three and Trump's replacing her in his first 12 months in office.

[KillerB]

Janet Yellen’s term was over. He could have renominated her, but his choice to replace her is not controversial.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, the problem is, no matter what we do right now...we're screwed because there's a large segment of the population that has been brainwashed and conditioned to go into absolute craziness if anything happens.

These folks definitely have a different way of thinking, that's for sure.

[21Kid]

and that's part of the reason why we should get rid of the electoral college

But, the electoral college is supposed to save us from electing someone crazy!!! ... :twitch: waaaaaaiiiit a minute. :erm:

[21Kid]

Yeah, the problem is, no matter what we do right now...we're screwed because there's a large segment of the population that has been brainwashed and conditioned to go into absolute craziness if anything happens.I don't understand how we even got here. :( With SOOOOOOoOooooo much information out there. How are people so willfully ignorant in this day and age!?!

[Fogelhund]

Trump nominating a new head of the Federal Reserve - is that just another move to remove someone Obama put in, just for the sake of it?

Most of them either seem to last about 10 years if they get through the first couple, but the current one has been in for three and Trump's replacing her in his first 12 months in office.

Her term was up.

Typically the Head of the Federal Reserve is renominated, for a second term, no matter who nominated them the first time. This is actually the first time it hasn't. It is fairly certain he picked someone else, because Yellen was chosen by Obama... but there is nothing controversial about the pick itself, really the first nomination he's made where he picked a pretty decent person for the job.

[neanderthal]

I would argue that, if you’re a California voter, voting for a third party is not de facto Trump support. Running up the score in CA wouldn’t (and didn’t) get Clinton any closer to winning.

I’m also not sure that this is a productive argument a year after the election, anyway. Is it 2018 yet?

Academically, you're not wrong. But parsing it too fine gets us to a situation where we are blaming voters in the states that get their caucuses and votes early in the nomination process. And that's not going to fly.
So i'm holding people who voted in the election responsible for their votes and the outcome.

[neanderthal]

If there were collusion or whatever other impeachable offenses, surely he'll be removed while in office sooner or later.

Hillary, OTOH, will most likely not going to be impeached during her term. Surely she'll be much craftier at hiding things.

If Trump could really hold on for 4 years... or the unthinkable 8 years..., I've gotta hand it to him for such achievement.

Regarding world wars, I really doubt Trump would want to risk destroying his hotels... The guy is an annoying loud mouth and has yet to delivered what he promised. So hopefully the trend continues.


You're still with this shit!!!

On one hand you're telling me "she lost, get over it" {sidebar; um ... YOU'RE to blame, remember!!!!!!!!!!} then a second later you're trying the "she's crafty, she's nasty, she's guilty, she can't be trusted" and yet I specifically remember challenging YOU, right here in this thread to tell us the actual dirt about her. And you failed. You had nothing on her. You couldn't even come up with a single shady thing. You've fallen so hard for the last three decades of the Republican hype machine that i'm surprised you're not catatonically saying "but her emails" all while failed to realise your duplicity in this whole mess. Stop dragging Hillary if you don't have the goods on her. You are literally the Fox News echo chamber when you do so.

Then you have the nerve to act like you're the independent fact- weighing, reality- seeing, "thinker" among us with your "both parties are the same" rhetoric. That pig won't fly. The emperor is not wearing clothes.

[neanderthal]

Well to your point, they were also tasked with overturning a result if it was deemed that the voter base was insane, misled, etc. just like a Judge in a court case....and technically some SHOULD have overturned the results this time.

Impeachment should have been on the table on day 1 but the feckless cowards in the GOP are more concerned with satisfying their overlords than the country. And they have the balls to run on patriotism ...

Don't get me started on their voters.

[thesameguy]

Academically, you're not wrong. But parsing it too fine gets us to a situation where we are blaming voters in the states that get their caucuses and votes early in the nomination process. And that's not going to fly.
So i'm holding people who voted in the election responsible for their votes and the outcome.

Well, maybe if the primary hadn't been rigged there would have been candidates worth showing up for and more people would have voted.

Fuck Clinton and her "It's my turn to be president!" tantrum. Run a good campaign, don't fuck with your team mates. Be a basically good human being.

If the only purpose of a choice is the lesser of two evils, I say we all just vote for evil and get this party started. Oh wait, that happened. So, let's just hope 2017 is our nation's come to Jesus moment and we all walk away with better ideas for the future. If not, the RV is all gassed up and I can make it Mexico without stopping. Probably Costa Rica before it falls apart. LET'S DO THIS.

[mk]

Local document series outside line: has a part #trumpland.
(removed from youtube but is at https://areena.yle.fi/1-3875448)
(says it's globally available)

It says nothing has changed, it's still all about money.
(why poor democrats voted Trump)

Indicating that good social security will flip the coin, permanently.
(here totally consumed salary is 3/4 straight back to the society)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, maybe if the primary hadn't been rigged there would have been candidates worth showing up for and more people would have voted.

Fuck Clinton and her "It's my turn to be president!" tantrum. Run a good campaign, don't fuck with your team mates. Be a basically good human being.

If the only purpose of a choice is the lesser of two evils, I say we all just vote for evil and get this party started. Oh wait, that happened. So, let's just hope 2017 is our nation's come to Jesus moment and we all walk away with better ideas for the future. If not, the RV is all gassed up and I can make it Mexico without stopping. Probably Costa Rica before it falls apart. LET'S DO THIS.

Xerox this!

Blaming me gets you nowhere Neanderthal...

There will always be stupid voters..., the thing to change is to allow the system to provide us better candidates.

If all they can offer us are candidates like Hillary and Trump, I ain't playing. You can play if you want. I won't blame you if Hillarys elected. I would've just thought that sucked. Of course things sucked even worst now, but hopefully this suckiness will pressure all of us to bring about some kind of change... or we'll just all die in WWW3!

[thesameguy]

Local document series outside line: has a part #trumpland.
(removed from youtube but is at https://areena.yle.fi/1-3875448)
(says it's globally available)

It says nothing has changed, it's still all about money.
(why poor democrats voted Trump)

Indicating that good social security will flip the coin, permanently.
(here totally consumed salary is 3/4 straight back to the society)

I'm no expert, but I certainly agree. Trump's campaign was primarily based on financial scare tactics: Foreigners are taking your jobs, climate change wackos are hurting your businesses, government programs are taking your money. The establishment is working against your security!!! Everyone can identify with that. It's a good drum to beat. When you've got that on your side and a $100,000 Facebook marketing campaign, how can anyone compete??? :smh: Trump watched Brexit happen and then reran all the plays. Well played. Clinton rigged her nomination and then tried to jog across the finish line. Although, in her defense, how can you compete when a foreign entity spends ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS on ads. You can't. It's game over man, game over!

Unrelated, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that Clinton's pockets were overflowing but the DNC was in swimming debt.

[21Kid]

:blahblah: responding to CrazedInsanity. Why don't you try pinning some jello to the wall while you're at it. You're going to have the same outcome.


i.e. :finger:

[21Kid]

Impeachment should have been on the table on day 1 but the feckless cowards in the GOP are more concerned with satisfying their overlords than the country. And they have the balls to run on patriotism ...

Don't get me started on their voters.
This!!!

They wave the flag around like they're the ones who care about it. While back in reality.
They're effing over 99% of American's by following their 1% donors wishes.
They're taking away freedoms of people from religionj.
They're inducing terror with their xenophobia & gun policies
They're trying to take away many people healthcare.
They're attempting to inflate the 1%s pockets and destroy our national debt.

I can't think of one thing that they are doing to try and help the majority of Americans!

[novicius]

Well it was kinda mathematically proven that the majority of voting "Americans" are left-leaning, so... they feel like they're circling the wagons. :assclown:

[Tom Servo]

I feel like this is important.



The Donna Brazile excerpt is causing lots of sturm und drag with Senator Warren joining the chorus saying it proves the '16 Dem race was "rigged" in favor of Hillary Clinton. But I think we need to take a deep breath and unpack what's at issue.

The question is: what does the DNC actually do, and can it, even if it wanted to, rig 50+ primaries for any given candidate?

Well, let's start with what the DNC (and RNC) actually do: they are the governing bodies for their parties. They write the platform, support candidates up and down the ballot, fund state parties and operate what's called the "coordinated campaign" for the presidential nominee. They do not determine whether states have primaries or caucuses--that's up to the states and state parties. Most state parties prefer primaries because the state pays for them, while parties preferring caucuses do so for more control. Other than using their delegate allocation power to lock in the "go first" states, the DNC also doesn't set primary/caucus schedule. That too is up to the states, who generally pass laws to fix the date leaving it to the state party (not the DNC/RNC) if they're open or closed. That's why we already know the order for 2020. States for the most part already decided.

The DNC in 2016 also used the same delegate allocation rules from 2012, so all the candidates knew the deal. The DNC and RNC also form joint fundraising committees with the eventual nominee. They offer these agreements to all the candidates. Per Donna's contention, that process was polluted by the fact that Hillary Clinton was both a candidate and bailing out the DNC financially.

There's some question about whether she acquired control every nominee gets over the DNC before or after she clinched the nomination, but that, and the clear preference of DNC staff and longtime Clinton loyalist are the source of the "rigging" claim. That could affect the setting of the debate schedule, which you could argue was done to bury Sanders' appeal, though that clearly didn't work.

But the question is -- what could the DNC have done to actually cause Sanders to lose the states he lost, which cost him the nomination. Even if one objects to the JFA as Donna did, it didn't hurt Sanders financially. By April, he'd raised as much as HRC ($182,242,497 for HRC, $182,923,991 for Sanders). I was in S. Carolina covering that primary. Sanders had robust staff, enthusiastic supporters, and lots of money. Did the DNC "make him lose?"

South Carolina is the giant-killer in presidential campaigns, D and R. Had Obama lost it in '08, Clinton would likely have been the nominee. The DNC & the party writ large very openly favored Hillary Clinton. Obama lost huge primaries and won caucuses. He still got the nomination.

Since the rules were the same -- including superdelegate rules -- why was outsider Obama able to beat the DNC establishment then?

And by the way, if you made the superdelegates proportional, or disappeared them, Clinton still would have won.

The superdelegates strongly favored Clinton in 2008, including the CBC. They couldn't stop Obama from getting the nomination either. Even if the DNC passed a rule binding superdelegates to their state primaries, Clinton would have won.

So here's the deal: The DNC is full of super-Democrats who are party loyalists, and yep, they favored Clinton over the independent Sanders. They snarked about him in emails stolen and released by Russian hackers. They were a sloppy organization that was broke and needed Clinton's money. And they entered into a deal that basically saw the more or less inevitable nominee, based on the primary calendar, loan them money. But snarky emails didn't cost Bernie Sanders the nomination. DNC fundraising deals with Clinton (for money to spend in the general election, not primaries) didn't either. Sanders didn't win the nomination because Hillary Clinton got more votes than he did. She won the calendar. And she got more votes particularly in states with large black voting populations, which is how Democrats win primaries.

The DNC, from what I gather, including from Donna's book excerpt, could barely function let alone rig 50+ primaries. Because, again, how would an organization compel/force more people to vote for one candidate over the other. Perhaps if they had run a disinformation campaign against Sanders? Which is odd because there was one, that Russia was running against Clinton. The candidates traded insults and accusations but that's hardly rigging a campaign. He protrayed her as a crook, she called him unrealistic. (Well, maybe "crook" is too harsh -- but you get my drift.) The JFA is interesting news to me because it shows how fecacked the party was. But I can't see how that fundraising arrangement actually rigged the election in Clinton's favor.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Since DNC is so incompetent and couldn't even rig their own primaries and couldn't even win against an idiot from the opposing party..., do you guys think it's time for a reform yet?

Or it's still just a problem purely caused by the other side?

Guys, quit blaming others. Yes, others deserved to be blamed too. We're all responsible somewhat..., but fuck... shifting blame around won't solve anything.

Does the DNC have a plan for our future? Or it's just bitch and whine at how stupid the conservative right folks are?

Hillary's campaign was essentially 'status quo'... hey, let's just stay the course. Everything is cool!

Trump pretended to be a 'problem solver'... the problem was that there are swamp monsters on the capitol hill. Enough american people saw the problems and wanted a problem solver.

They couldn't have Sanders, so they picked Trump.

Of course Trump probably caused more problems...

It's a negative feedback loop caused by evil candidates. We can't just keep on electing lesser of the 2 evils and expect positive outcome. It's just a matter of time when we drop off a cliff.

[Tom Servo]

Guys, quit blaming others. Yes, others deserved to be blamed too. We're all responsible somewhat..., but fuck... shifting blame around won't solve anything.

Okay, now I *know* you're trolling.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm always trolling, aren't I?

Hillary's campaign slogan was 'better together'.

Does she mean it?

Do you guys believe it?

If yes, then we have to figure out ways to be 'together', not just keep on blaming.

If you guys really think it's time to split up the country, then do something about it.

One way or another is fine, but just whining and bitching will get us nowhere.

For what it's worth, I'm with Hillary's campaign slogan... 'better together'.

America doesn't have to be great, but needs to get herself together!

[thesameguy]

I feel like this is important.

Sure, maybe.

But it overlooks some weird facts, like, for example:


2016 Presidential election

Clinton's opponents, Martin O'Malley and Bernie Sanders, separately criticized the decision by Wasserman Schultz to schedule only six debates in the 2016 Presidential Primary, fewer than in previous election cycles, as well as the timing of the debates.[65][66]

Some of Wasserman Schultz's actions that the news covered during the primaries were: having reduced the debate schedule,[67][68][69] disinvited former DNC Vice Chair Tulsi Gabbard to the first primary Democratic debate,[70][71] in an altercation shut down Sanders' campaign's access to the DNC server and thus halting their campaign until immense backslash led to her to rescind it,[72][73] defended the system of superdelegates that were used to signal to the support base that Clinton would be nominee,[74] quietly rescinded Obama's 2008 ban on donations to the DNC from corporate lobbyists and PACs[75][76] and thus paving way for the Hillary Victory Fund that was later reported by Politico to have laundered money to their campaign and DNC having hid the details of its agreement with the Clinton campaign[77] and falsely accused Sanders supporters of violence at the Nevada Convention.[78][79][80].

In May, MSNBC's Mika Brzezinski called on Schultz to step down over the DNC's bias against the Bernie Sanders campaign.[81] The 2016 Democratic National Committee email leak revealed that Schultz was furious at the negative coverage of her actions in the media, and she emailed Chuck Todd that such coverage of her "must stop".[82] Describing the coverage as the "LAST straw", she ordered the DNC's communications director to call MSNBC president Phil Griffin to demand an apology from Brzezinski.[83][84][85]

Resignation

See also: 2016 Democratic National Committee email leak

After WikiLeaks published Democratic National Committee emails which suggested that DNC staffers and partly Wasserman Schultz herself[86][87][88][89][90] had inappropriately backed Hillary Clinton in the primary campaigns while criticizing the Bernie Sanders campaign, Wasserman Schultz tendered her resignation as the head of the DNC, to become effective as of the close of the nominating convention in Philadelphia. According to reports in The Washington Post, Wasserman Schultz strongly resisted suggestions she resign, requiring a phone call from President Barack Obama to finally force her resignation.[91]

Whether or not these and other actions had a material affect is debatable. But, being a pragmatist, I can't help but wonder why a person or a group would engage in activities to hamstring one person or prop another person up if those actions would have no material affect reality. If the outcome was predetermined, why waste the energy, why run the risk? Doesn't add up.

the same goes for HFA taking control of the DNC's administration. Maybe nothing untoward happened, or maybe if it did there was no material impact on events. But the act itself is unethical, and one can't help but wonder why anyone would risk the implications for an effort that had no material affect. Doesn't add up.

Everything about her doesn't add up. Maybe she has the best of intentions, maybe she is a legitimate saint. But her actions are questionable, she puts herself into questionable positions. If I had an employee that did all the things she did, I'd fire her ass. If I had a friend that did all the things she did, I wouldn't invite her into my house.

[Tom Servo]

I'm always trolling, aren't I?

Hillary's campaign slogan was 'better together'.

Does she mean it?

Do you guys believe it?

If yes, then we have to figure out ways to be 'together', not just keep on blaming.

If you guys really think it's time to split up the country, then do something about it.

One way or another is fine, but just whining and bitching will get us nowhere.

For what it's worth, I'm with Hillary's campaign slogan... 'better together'.

America doesn't have to be great, but needs to get herself together!

The point is not Hillary. The point is that you literally just told people to stop blaming others, when I've spent maybe the past year dealing with you blaming everybody but Bernie for his loss. I tried to explain to you *so* *many* *times* that the DNC (and RNC) are private organizations and are allowed to support the candidates they choose to support that I gave up trying because you were never going to get it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just take me and Neanderthal for example.

I've never blamed him with his voting choice. (Nor would I blame roofer for his choice)

He blamed me.

In a democratic society, that is just fucking wrong.

Blaming the stupid voters for getting Trump elected, IMHO, is also wrong.

If you guys really think she should be the obvious queen, just get rid of the election then! It might also be worth investigating why people voted for Trump. (Reasons other than stupidity)

I believe Sanders was shafted.

You guys still believe Wells Fargo bank is an awesome bank just because they support gay marriage with empty words. Only actions they took was equal opportunity stealing. When shit hits the fan, 1st thing to do is firing of the low level employees who were forced into such practice...

I seriously don't believe Hillary will make this world a better place. Best she can do is delay the destruction of america perhaps while enriching herself. (That's status quo for you)

[thesameguy]

He gets it. I get it.

But when an organization purports to be neutral but secretly is not, that's a problem.

[Crazed_Insanity]

One thing I gotta hand it to Trump is that he purports to be crazy openly and his supporters love him... sigh...

But luckily that love is shrinking.

[Tom Servo]

You guys still believe Wells Fargo bank is an awesome bank just because they support gay marriage with empty words.

Hey, look, it's your other defining trait. When you're not blaming everyone else, you're putting words in their mouths!

Which is fun because I've noticed that if you think anyone has done either of those things to you, you lose your shit over it.

Well, that was a fun morning, back on ignore for you.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You guys seemed to still pining for Hillary to reign. Was I wrong to interpret that? If I'm wrong, apologies.

I'm just glad that election was over.

With Sanders out of running, I knew America was neither going to be together nor great again.

(Yes, I'm blaming the establishment/political system because I want it changed! That is more feasible than convert all stupid conservatives into smart liberals or vice versa!)

[21Kid]

Hey, look, it's your other defining trait. When you're not blaming everyone else, you're putting words in their mouths!

Which is fun because I've noticed that if you think anyone has done either of those things to you, you lose your shit over it.

Well, that was a fun morning, back on ignore for you.Looks like I didn't miss anything. Why did you take him off of ignore? :?

[Tom Servo]

Got bored, thought I'd spice up my life a little bit.

[21Kid]

How'd that work out for you? :lol:

[Tom Servo]

About how I expected.

[drew]

Like sticking your dick in a garbage disposal?

[G'day Mate]

:lol:

[Tom Servo]

Actually, I kinda want to put my dick in the garbage disposal again.

Billi: I actually was just thinking, "What the fuck is he talking about that we believe Wells Fargo is an awesome bank? I don't remember anybody saying that." So I googled "Wells Fargo site:gtxforums.net". I also tried just "fargo". All I found was a couple of mentions about the mobile app for deposits, a few people talking about bikes/car things called "Fargo", and then you, repeatedly mentioning Wells Fargo in this and the "police killing black people" thread. Nobody else has even brought it up. You literally made up something and claimed we're all saying it.

After the shitfit you had when you claimed I put words in your mouth, you had at least said something even if you didn't like my interpretation. You just made this shit up out of literally nothing. I demand an apology for you demanding an apology for putting words in your mouth.

[Yw-slayer]

In fairness, I think he's talking about this: http://fortune.com/2017/08/31/wells-fargo-fake-accounts-scandal-2017-tim-sloan/

Whether you think it's relevant is up to you.

[Tom Servo]

Oh, yeah, I know the Wells Fargo thing he's talking about. They also have a long history of doing the thing where they process debits first, then credits, so people without much money get nailed with overdraft fees. (e.x., you've got $20 in your account. Deposit a $500 check. Pay $5 for something, $10 for another, and $25 for another. They at least used to re-order it so they'd put through the biggest debit first at $25, hitting you with an overdraft, then the $10 for another overdraft, then the $5 for another overdraft, then deposit the $500) My father worked for them decades ago and has all sorts of stories about how shady they are. I have never been and never will be a Wells Fargo client. I am in total agreement that Wells Fargo's business practices are abhorrent.

The problem I have is the assertion that "us guys believe they're awesome because they support gay marriage." I can't find a single instance of anyone saying anything of the sort anywhere on this website. I know I didn't. I didn't even know offhand that they do support gay marriage, but if they do, I do think that's a positive thing. I don't think that makes them awesome and I'm still not going to get an account there.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Appreciate you decided to stick your dick in me again, and I'm hoping your attempting to make love to me and not fuck me...

Anyway, wasn't attempting to put Wells Fargo bank in your mouth. It was just an illustration...

Do we really only have 2 banks in America? Either bank of trump or Wells Fargo? WF bank is supposed to be Hillary if you didn't get it.

I'm glad you're not going to bank at WF, and I hope you'll also not want to vote for Hillary again. I guess I was unnecessarily equating Hillary supporters today as people who still love Wells Fargo bank.

Am I clearer now? Or are you seeing more faults from this garbage disposal?

[Tom Servo]

You are clearer now. I completely disagree with the analogy, which is why I didn't pick it up as one, but at least I get what you're trying to say now.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Good. Glad I didn't get fucked. I enjoyed making love with you... just too bad neither one of us reached orgasm.

Anyway, to me the analogy is pretty close. I didn't choose to bank with neither, but Neanderthal blamed me for not going Wells Fargo... com'on Americans... it's time to exercise our power to end the lesser of 2 evil game, instead of blaming each other for not voting for the lesser evil.

[Tom Servo]

I enjoyed making love with you

See, now I can't stop vomiting, and it has nothing to do with what the garbage disposal did to my junk.

[MR2 Fan]

is Billi TRYING to get banned?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just trying to make love, not fuck around!

[G'day Mate]

Perhaps everyone just needs a cold shower ;)

(and please, no more sexual metaphors Billi :P)

[Fogelhund]

Apparently this poll is being sent out to people...

https://www.facebook.com/AltUSNationalParkService/photos/a.1742440909417307.1073741828.1742306959430702/1908223129505750/?type=3&theater

[MR2 Fan]

:smh:

[Tom Servo]

Those have been going out for a while. I saw one with almost identical wording maybe six months ago.

I also just saw their survey on my opinion of how he's doing as President. The three options were "Great", "Good", and "Okay". No negative responses were listed.

[21Kid]

So, we truly are emulating North Korea now... :smh:

[George]

Nah, that's just politics as usual. I don't see it as any different than all the right-wing emails that old people forward around in text so large you have to stand back from the monitor to read it. Damn, people - get some reading glasses from the Dollar Store if you need text that large!

There is much more to be concerned about with this president and his supporters than preposterously slanted email surveys.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Can folks focus on impeachment, rather than spam email surveys? Who cares about those surveys?!?!?!?!? I wonder if roofer even took those surveys...

[Fogelhund]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/358894-trump-to-japan-build-cars-in-the-us-instead-of-shipping-them-over


"Try building your cars in the United States instead of shipping them over,” Trump said at an event with Japanese business executives, according to a pool report.

Three out of every four Japanese brand cars sold in North America were manufactured on the continent, according to Columbus Business First.
And Mazda and Toyota announced in August that they were investing $1.6 billion to start a new manufacturing plant in the U.S. that will create about 4,000 new jobs.

[Fogelhund]

This whole Paradise Papers fallout is going to be interesting as well....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41889787

nstead of paying Irish corporation tax of 12.5%, or the US rate of 35%, Apple's avoidance structure helped it reduce its tax rate on profits outside of the US to the extent that its foreign tax payments rarely amounted to more than 5% of its foreign profits, and in some years dipped below 2%.

Seems to be approx $8-35 Billion in tax avoidance per year... I wonder how that might affect the share price, if they were tagged with a $15 Bil. per year x 5 years tax penalty...

[Tom Servo]

Interesting writeup from NPR about Trump's year since being elected and his base: https://www.npr.org/2017/11/07/562351087/president-trump-was-elected-a-year-ago-and-americans-are-feeling-aggrieved

[Crazed_Insanity]

This whole Paradise Papers fallout is going to be interesting as well....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41889787

nstead of paying Irish corporation tax of 12.5%, or the US rate of 35%, Apple's avoidance structure helped it reduce its tax rate on profits outside of the US to the extent that its foreign tax payments rarely amounted to more than 5% of its foreign profits, and in some years dipped below 2%.

Seems to be approx $8-35 Billion in tax avoidance per year... I wonder how that might affect the share price, if they were tagged with a $15 Bil. per year x 5 years tax penalty...

Very smart of them!

I don't mind them finding creative ways to avoid paying taxes, but why are they just letting their money sitting there?

At least open up some sort of R&D center to develop new products or something!!! Lend it to Elon Musk to build cars and rockets and cool and awesome stuffs!

Instead, we have iphoneX and it couldn't tell twins apart with their facial recognition software...

Invest in the future Apple. Jobs' legacy will run out soon...

[Tom Servo]

Well, this has been an interesting day. Democrats won tons of elections, including the VA Gov. race, which Trump spent most of the morning tweeting about Gillespie and how great he was and how awful Northam was, claiming that VA was riddled with high crime and in bad financial shape (it's ranked 3rd for the lowest crime rate and has an unemployment rate of 3.7%). Trump then immediately threw Gillespie under the bus when the election was called for Northam.

A big one was in the VA state legislature, where a trans woman just unseated the Republican who wrote the whole anti-trans bathroom bill.

[G'day Mate]

Um ... Donald ... what you're tweeting is in direct conflict with what you're tweeting about

https://image.ibb.co/jJbcxb/trumptweet.png

[dodint]

A big one was in the VA state legislature, where a trans woman just unseated the Republican who wrote the whole anti-trans bathroom bill.

NC was the state that actually enacted legislation, this guys feeble attempt died on the floor.

NC has really done some dumb shit since we left. It's sad, really.

[Tom Servo]

Ahh, yep, you're right. Maybe less poetic justice and more "shitty limerick" justice.

[MR2 Fan]

Trump then immediately threw Gillespie under the bus when the election was called for Northam.

A big one was in the VA state legislature, where a trans woman just unseated the Republican who wrote the whole anti-trans bathroom bill.


There's two kinds of Trump allies, either you're already under the bus, or about to be under the bus.....(except for Putin)

[thesameguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCb-LbaLUvc

[Crazed_Insanity]

So scary.

It's sad that we're now driven mostly by fear...

[neanderthal]

So scary.

It's sad that we're now driven mostly by fear...

That's rich, very fucking rich.

Remind us again who you voted for and why you didn't vote for Hillary, and how you weren't able to substantiate any of your "valid" reasons? Something something Benghazi something something untrustworthy something something Clinton Foundation ... etc etc etc.

What was your vote based on?

And you can't acknowledge, to this day, that you were duped. Had. Bamboozled.

[21Kid]

:twitch: Are you done yet Mo? He's not going to get it... no matter how hard you try. For your own sanity, put him back on ignore.

[thesameguy]

Give it a rest.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Duped by Jill Stein, yep!

It's over, let's get over it okay?

Hillary isn't coming back. Trump won't be one of the greats. We're stuck in this not only because billi voted for Jill.

[dodint]

I shouldn't be so hard on you guys about discourse.


An Alabama GOP official just publicly blasphemed the divinity of Christ...

To justify another Alabama GOP figure's pedophilic battery of a 14 year old girl...

These are the people that write our laws. Yay.