Politics

[G'day Mate]

How can you blame China for taking advantage of people that had no clue? I would've done same!

:smh:

[thesameguy]

Sure, what's wrong with that?

FFS.

[Tom Servo]

In positive news, I found common ground with Trump.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/359730-trump-thinks-scientology-should-lose-its-tax-exempt-status

[TheBenior]

Broken clocks, and such.

[Tom Servo]

Indeed, and it's almost certainly jealousy based, as their statements and his are eerily similar, only they're even better at Trumpian clashing than he is.

[speedpimp]

And they infiltrated the government on a large scale when he had an ouchie on his tootsies that kept him out of the draft.

[G'day Mate]

In positive news, I found common ground with Trump.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/359730-trump-thinks-scientology-should-lose-its-tax-exempt-status

Is that because he thinks it's not a religion or because it is Scientology? I wonder what other religions could be targeted.

[Tom Servo]

Again, I think he just hates the competition. He talks *exactly* like any higher-up Scientologist: short words, direct phrasing, with insulting words peppered in, often not denying something someone said but instead attacking them over something unrelated and quite probably untrue.

I don't think this is a principled stance in any way. I think I mostly posted it because I want to be able to refer back to it the next time Billi pulls his "Can't you name at least one good thing this horrible person did?" card.

[neanderthal]

:twitch: Are you done yet Mo? He's not going to get it... no matter how hard you try. For your own sanity, put him back on ignore.

He needs to hear it along with all Trump voters. An election is not a bad dessert choice at dinner, an unfortunate style pairing at a before you leave the house or a minor fender bender where no one got hurt and the cars only got scratched. It has real fucking consequences for real people. The sheer number of things that we're now inured to is horrifying. Now, to be fair, a lot of these things are not the result of the election, and started before this election. And there is no guarantee that a Hillary presidency would have solved all of them, some of them, or any of them, but, we surely wouldn't have the mental trauma, yes, it's mental trauma, of dealing with this shit every. fucking. day.

We, right here, used to lament the daily new revelations and actions of this administration. We're almost numb to it now, but it's not funny, it's not cute, it's ghastly. What hath he wrought, and not wraught but not given a fuck about?

Flint water crisis. Puerto Rico. Not paying attention to the daily security briefing. Declared the Court system a threat to the country. Roy fucking Moore right now. Merrick Garland. Guns. Nazis. (We're talking Nazis being "fine people on both sides" for fucks sakes.) Suborning Russian meddling with our elections. Remember how he signed the Book of Remembrance at the Holocaust museum? Tax cuts for the wealthy. Cutting Medicare to accommodate that. Muslim ban (should I repeat this three times or just leave it here?) Kneeling during the anthem. The $15 BILLION dollar hole in the budget. Gerrymandering. Nepotism. Accusing President Obama's National Security Advisor of a crime and then conspiring with the head of the House Intelligence Committee to foment a scandal. Self dealing. The Tax Reform Plan he unveiled was less[i] detailed than the one he campaigned on. Less detailed. Money Laundering. Pollution/ Environmental damage. Siad he break up the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. Educational damage. Denying science. Global warming. Collusion. Voter suppression. Stacking courts. Dog whistles. Obstructionism. Reproductive choice (forty fucking years later. Seriously??????) US Virgin Islands. Fucking with North Korea. Releasing a budget with a 42 trillion error. Supporting/ condoning Erdogan's regime in Turkey. A Saudi Arabia coup happening right fucking now. Brexit. Genocide of the Rohyinga. Deleterious relations with Cuba after opening ties for the first time in 50 years and thawing a still lingering Cold War. homophobia. Deregulation of food safety. Cutting the legal authority of the Office of Government Ethics to do its job then hiring lobbyists and industry lawyers to government jobs. Accusing Obama of wiretapping his phones? And when he suggested Obama had wiretapped Chancellor Angela Merkel? Monopolistic tendencies in news and media conglomerates. Shoving the Prime Minister of Montenegro out of the way for a photo op. Glorifying Confederate icons. Creating a diplomatic incident with Australia (over taking in refugees that we had agreed to.) Falsifying facts (Inauguration attendance etc.) Accusing London's Muslim Mayor of being indifferent to terrorism. Suggesting Frederick Douglass is still alive. Fake news. Use of private jets by government workers. Saying "cutting funds to Meals on Wheels is one of the most compassionate things we can do." Foreign hacking of essential infrastructure. Steve Bannon, a white nationalist, in the White House. Never mind Miller!!!! ICE raids and seeking undocumented aliens outside schools, hospitals, courtrooms, etc. Condemning a private company (Nordstroms) for dropping his daughters fashion line. Seeking [i]compromat on Hillary from foreign agents. Grab em by the pussy. Trumpcare. State Dept budget cuts. Melania living in New York for that time. Blowing the Secret Service budget. Censoring the White House media. Firing the Director of the FBI for failing to demonstrate personal loyalty to Don don. Trying to intimidate said former Director by insinuating there were tapes of all their conversations. Holding a nuclear strategy session in the public dining room of his property in Florida. Appointing woefully unqualified people to Cabinet positions. Perjury in said confirmations. Golfing every weekend at his properties. Actual Russian interference in our elections. Pulling out of the Paris Accord. Emoluments. Reneging on Iran. Lying about coal jobs coming back. Sharing top secret intel with a hostile nation. Cutting funding for healthcare enrollment. Inciting NFL franchise owners to fire players who kneel for the anthem. Praising Duterte who has killed thousands of people in the Philipines. Insulting the wife of a dead soldier and saying "he knew what he signed up for." Besides insulting the scion of a gold start family. Trashing the new START treaty on the phone with Putin, after pausing to ask what the START treaty was anyway? Allowing the State Departments website to advertise his Florida property. Oh, remember when he was disappointed in Bill O'Reilly for settling those sexual harassment claims? Declared mainstream media the enemy of the American people. Claiming the popular vote was lost because of millions of illegal immigrants voting. Declared he was open to starting a nuclear arms race. Etc etc


Give it a rest.

And i'm tired of thinking about things said and done and typing about them now so i'm going to give this post a rest, but no, I will not give it a rest. These things, many of them, have permanent real consequences; Flint, Puerto Rico, judicial nominees, deportations, budget cuts, etc etc etc which are harmful to many people. Just because billi is immune to a lot of them doesn't many people aren't. So no. I won't give it a rest.

I'll give billi and Trump voters a break when the actions of Donald Trump are no longer a public menace. Just the other month I had to defend someone being publicly berated for not speaking English. Then respond with "this is my home you stupid twat!" when their invective was directed at me.

Edit; I was going to make that wall of text a list and list links for each but i'm already tired just making the list. And we're in the first year of Trump's presidency. 3 more years minimum because GOP.

[Tom Servo]

We all talked about, when Trump got elected, that there's a real danger in becoming numb to the horribleness. Even now, a guy who may very well have sexually assaulted a 14 year old when he was 32 has a real chance at becoming a US Senator.

I'm totally okay with neanderthal still being mad as hell. I'm trying to keep myself there, because this shit is fucked up, and as tired as I am of it, I need to force myself to not fall into complacence.

[thesameguy]

Ah fuck it. I'm out. I'm not participating in a scenario where a campaign of verbal abuse is an ok way to treat people. I like to think I was raised better than that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't think this is a principled stance ink any way. I think I mostly posted it because I want to be able to refer back to it the next time Billi pulls his "Can't you name at least one good thing this horrible person did?" card.

Ok, noted, won't pull that card again. Good job on trying to find something positive and agreeable with Trump! ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, you give trump too much credit.

Presidents definitely can be influential but they are not kings.

Black lives matter started during the obama admin, remember?

Hillary will sound and look presidential, but she won't actually accomplish much.

The system is fucked up, getting upset with American voters who don't agree with you isn't the solution. There will always be people who disagree with you, but we can achieve a political system that's less corrupt.

[George]

Hillary will sound and look presidential, but she won't actually accomplish much.

Do you think she will run again?

[Fogelhund]

Do you think she will run again?

Too much baggage, IMO. They need someone who hasn't been smeared to bits already. For the good of the Dems, she needs to disappear.

[Crazed_Insanity]

But she just might run again..., and I'm not going to vote for her... and Neanderthal will be pissed at me again...

[Yw-slayer]

She can't be hardheaded enough to run again, right? Seriously.

[dodint]

Chelsea is almost ready.

[FaultyMario]

Are all Kennedys Dead?

[JoshInKC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KTsXHXMkJA

[Jason]

I really hope the DNC backs someone fresh this time around. Clinton, Biden, Sanders, etc, need to stay away.

[Crazed_Insanity]

why must sanders or biden stay away, assuming they're still alive and healthy?

Anyway, moral of the story is that DNC shouldn't be 'backing' anybody! Just let the best man or woman win without meddling or giving the appearance of meddling.

Last time, it looks to me that DNC backed Clinton unfairly. Even the liberal media backed Clinton unfairly by giving her more coverage and shutting out Sanders.

Of course some claims that DNC was just weak and ineffective to be able to pull something like that off..., that's a possibility, but if that's true, that certainly made it easier for rich Hillary to storm in and take over the party.

Whatever and however it happened, I do believe the best man was shafted.

I think even Neanderthal would agree Sanders is the better candidate, but the better candidate didn't win the primary for one reason or another.

Maybe democratic voters are just as stupid and the republican ones?

Nah.

It's the crappy system.

[Fogelhund]

I really hope the DNC backs someone fresh this time around. Clinton, Biden, Sanders, etc, need to stay away.

Warren, Franken... I've grown to like Franken, just a no BS kind of guy.

[novicius]

Well considering that now literally ANYONE can apparently be President (qualifications be damned), does it really matter? :lol:

[dodint]

If it doesn't matter what are you complaining about? ;)

[novicius]

Das my point -- I haven't complained about any potential Presidential candidates, 'cause it literally cannot get any worse than the Orange Nightmare we currently have. :D

[George]

I'm voting for Ted Nugent. :lol:



(not really)

[novicius]

While terrifying, does The Nuge really have the facilities in place to monetize the White House like Trump currently is doing?

I think you'd just get 1/2 Donald Trump. :lol:

[neanderthal]

Neanderthal, you give trump too much credit.

Presidents definitely can be influential but they are not kings.

Black lives matter started during the obama admin, remember?

Hillary will sound and look presidential, but she won't actually accomplish much.

The system is fucked up, getting upset with American voters who don't agree with you isn't the solution. There will always be people who disagree with you, but we can achieve a political system that's less corrupt.

There you go again (bolded.) You really have a hard on for Hillary, and seek her failure at every step. Never with any tangible proof at any of those junctions of course.

President Obama, the least qualified (if we go by fox News, since that's where you seem to derive your ... never mind!) POTUS maned to end being arguably (no argument on my part, considering the outright hostility he faced from the Congress) among the best Presidents we have ever had, given a dire economy, overburdened military, two wars/ occupations, international opinion, stock market etcetc etc. I could list the litany of things that bedevilled our country at his inauguration.
Hillary was probably the most qualified person to ever run for POTUS. But I digress.

I'm not giving Trump "credit." Those are actual, cringeworthy things he has said, done, or not done, that a half decent human being would not have done/said, not done. That's not even a complete list.

Everybody remembers the horror of Katrina and the aftermath, but we've nearly forgotten Puerto Rico because of this ghastly administration. Still no power and running water to most of the island, surgeries were being done by flashlight.
Days later, multiple verified witnesses and sources later, he has yet to denounce Roy Moore. Then again he has his own closet full of sexual harassment skeletons he probably doesn't want to open. There's a 33 year old wet behind the ears barely out of law school, completely disqualified according to the law association, ready to take a federal judgeship.

Then again, you're not the one to bear the brunt of these policies so it's all a big joke to you. You seem rather glib about it.

[neanderthal]

I really hope the DNC backs someone fresh this time around. Clinton, Biden, Sanders, etc, need to stay away.

This. So much this.
More than anything, I hope they can solidify their platform and figure out their message. GOP kills them at messaging. If they can do that and coalesce around a single candidate they should defeat Donny.

GOP would be wise to start over. This presidency is NOT going to reflect well on them. If Evan McMillan (? Utah Republican) decided to go rogue and primary Don don I reckon he'd give the orangatang a fright. GOP needs their own non horrific candidate who is not a Koch acolyte.

They've a quagmire to navigate extricating themselves out of the grip of the billionaires though.

[neanderthal]

why must sanders or biden stay away, assuming they're still alive and healthy?

Anyway, moral of the story is that DNC shouldn't be 'backing' anybody! Just let the best man or woman win without meddling or giving the appearance of meddling.

Last time, it looks to me that DNC backed Clinton unfairly. Even the liberal media backed Clinton unfairly by giving her more coverage and shutting out Sanders.

Of course some claims that DNC was just weak and ineffective to be able to pull something like that off..., that's a possibility, but if that's true, that certainly made it easier for rich Hillary to storm in and take over the party.

Whatever and however it happened, I do believe the best man was shafted.

I think even Neanderthal would agree Sanders is the better candidate, but the better candidate didn't win the primary for one reason or another.

Maybe democratic voters are just as stupid and the republican ones?

Nah.

It's the crappy system.

Nope. NOPE.NOPE HELL NOPE!

He has some good policy ideas but that's it. That's literally it. Sanders was my initial pick early in the 2016 primary. I've come to realise he is a thoroughly shitty candidate. He signed an agreement to raise funds for the DNC and down ticket races then never came through. Hillary did, but y'all complain about her.
And, there's a preponderance of evidence to disprove any notion of him being cheated.

But going against the Berners is like going against a 30 year campaign of right wing anti Hillary tripe. You're not going to get anywhere because they're just going to keep shouting louder and louder.

[neanderthal]

Warren, Franken... I've grown to like Franken, just a no BS kind of guy.

Franken has really come out of left field and made a bold announcement of his capability. I don't know that he has further political ambitions though.
Warren disappointed me by joining in the "bernie was cheated" nonsense before it was disproved. No thanks.

I'd take Kamala Harris/ Kennedy/ Booker (drug company baggage) at this point. But a dark horse still has time to emerge ala Obama.

O'Malley and Biden have male toxicity in their past.

Sadly, Democratic politicians don't get through the media much. Then again, it's not like they stand out.

[neanderthal]

While terrifying, does The Nuge really have the facilities in place to monetize the White House like Trump currently is doing?

I think you'd just get 1/2 Donald Trump. :lol:

With gerrymandering and voting restrictions he'd be worse; Donny has the (questionable) brains to at least be self serving while in the White House. Nugent would serve who exactly? NRA?

Until Donny I thought Congress was the greater threat, but its the combined effect of a weak spineless Congress and a self dealing POTUS that is the greatest threat. Congress can still be a brake on the president. As long as the GOP aren't in charge.

[Taimar]

They've a quagmire to navigate extricating themselves out of the grip of the billionaires though.

It's deeper than that, and I don't think there's any way to extricate themselves at this stage.

Point 1. The policy playbook that they have clung to for the past 40 years is essentially one which doesn't work at all for anybody but the wealthy. Their policies are demonstrably bad, poorly thought out, and often based on nothing more than somebody's intuition, repeated 4,000 times by friendly think tanks. They simply don't do anything to make society better or life better for the vast majority of Americans. And it's obvious.

Tax cuts for the wealthy and shrinking the scope of what Government does for people, busting up unions, cutting regulation, taking a laissez-faire approach to any and all markets - if we had never tried these things, perhaps they'd have some sort of point to make.

But we've literally tried all of these things for 40 years and all it's gotten us is a diminished country where people have fewer opportunities, live worse lives, and where the income gap is as large or larger than it was the peak of the gilded age.

The only people who believe that GOP economic policies are good are people who are either very wealthy or thoroughly bamboozled. So they haven't really been genuinely able to win on a grand scale with policy alone for ages.

Point 2. They have relied on nativism, xenophobia, religious zealotry and racism for so long, and fed their voter base a steady diet of outrage for so long, that they cannot digest anything else. They are now prisoners to this base, having gerrymandered themselves into safe districts, they fear only primary challengers who can turn the outrage quotient up to 11. So of course, they back ever more radical social views. We are now at a point where a CHILD MOLESTER is likely to win a seat in the U.S. Senate because he presents views that the nativist, xenophobic, Christian fascist base feels good about.

This base cares more about sticking it to people they don't like than any practical concern. The world could burn down around them and they wouldn't complain so long as the people they hate were burned first.

This is entirely a phenomenon of their own making - they have encourage this for decades, and have used it so long and so often, it'd be impossible to fully dissociate from it.

Point 3. Even this was not enough to maintain power. So they turned to gerrymandering. They have controlled most redistricting efforts from the last two censuses, and have created bizarrely configured but thoroughly safe districts. As if that weren't good enough, they've also sought in every way possible to suppress the votes of people who would turn out to vote against them, and to depress voting totals in general, which favors them.

They could not win only on policy, so they turned to culture wars. They could not win on culture wars alone, so they decided to cheat.

-----

To come down from this would require a large number of republicans to look back on the last 30+ years of their lives and say "You know, I've been wrong about everything, and it's time I did the right thing, even if it means my career's over."

They do not have the kind of character or courage that this would require - so you can bet they'll be going down with the ship.

[neanderthal]

It's deeper than that, and I don't think there's any way to extricate themselves at this stage.

Point 1. The policy playbook that they have clung to for the past 40 years is essentially one which doesn't work at all for anybody but the wealthy. Their policies are demonstrably bad, poorly thought out, and often based on nothing more than somebody's intuition, repeated 4,000 times by friendly think tanks. They simply don't do anything to make society better or life better for the vast majority of Americans. And it's obvious.

Tax cuts for the wealthy and shrinking the scope of what Government does for people, busting up unions, cutting regulation, taking a laissez-faire approach to any and all markets - if we had never tried these things, perhaps they'd have some sort of point to make.

But we've literally tried all of these things for 40 years and all it's gotten us is a diminished country where people have fewer opportunities, live worse lives, and where the income gap is as large or larger than it was the peak of the gilded age.

The only people who believe that GOP economic policies are good are people who are either very wealthy or thoroughly bamboozled. So they haven't really been genuinely able to win on a grand scale with policy alone for ages.

Point 2. They have relied on nativism, xenophobia, religious zealotry and racism for so long, and fed their voter base a steady diet of outrage for so long, that they cannot digest anything else. They are now prisoners to this base, having gerrymandered themselves into safe districts, they fear only primary challengers who can turn the outrage quotient up to 11. So of course, they back ever more radical social views. We are now at a point where a CHILD MOLESTER is likely to win a seat in the U.S. Senate because he presents views that the nativist, xenophobic, Christian fascist base feels good about.

This base cares more about sticking it to people they don't like than any practical concern. The world could burn down around them and they wouldn't complain so long as the people they hate were burned first.

This is entirely a phenomenon of their own making - they have encourage this for decades, and have used it so long and so often, it'd be impossible to fully dissociate from it.

Point 3. Even this was not enough to maintain power. So they turned to gerrymandering. They have controlled most redistricting efforts from the last two censuses, and have created bizarrely configured but thoroughly safe districts. As if that weren't good enough, they've also sought in every way possible to suppress the votes of people who would turn out to vote against them, and to depress voting totals in general, which favors them.

They could not win only on policy, so they turned to culture wars. They could not win on culture wars alone, so they decided to cheat.

-----

To come down from this would require a large number of republicans to look back on the last 30+ years of their lives and say "You know, I've been wrong about everything, and it's time I did the right thing, even if it means my career's over."

They do not have the kind of character or courage that this would require - so you can bet they'll be going down with the ship.


No argument from me.

Problem is their base will go down with them. They vote consistently. And they believe anything.

[MR2 Fan]

It's deeper than that, and I don't think there's any way to extricate themselves at this stage.

Point 1. The policy playbook that they have clung to for the past 40 years is essentially one which doesn't work at all for anybody but the wealthy. Their policies are demonstrably bad, poorly thought out, and often based on nothing more than somebody's intuition, repeated 4,000 times by friendly think tanks. They simply don't do anything to make society better or life better for the vast majority of Americans. And it's obvious.

Tax cuts for the wealthy and shrinking the scope of what Government does for people, busting up unions, cutting regulation, taking a laissez-faire approach to any and all markets - if we had never tried these things, perhaps they'd have some sort of point to make.

But we've literally tried all of these things for 40 years and all it's gotten us is a diminished country where people have fewer opportunities, live worse lives, and where the income gap is as large or larger than it was the peak of the gilded age.

The only people who believe that GOP economic policies are good are people who are either very wealthy or thoroughly bamboozled. So they haven't really been genuinely able to win on a grand scale with policy alone for ages.

Point 2. They have relied on nativism, xenophobia, religious zealotry and racism for so long, and fed their voter base a steady diet of outrage for so long, that they cannot digest anything else. They are now prisoners to this base, having gerrymandered themselves into safe districts, they fear only primary challengers who can turn the outrage quotient up to 11. So of course, they back ever more radical social views. We are now at a point where a CHILD MOLESTER is likely to win a seat in the U.S. Senate because he presents views that the nativist, xenophobic, Christian fascist base feels good about.

This base cares more about sticking it to people they don't like than any practical concern. The world could burn down around them and they wouldn't complain so long as the people they hate were burned first.

This is entirely a phenomenon of their own making - they have encourage this for decades, and have used it so long and so often, it'd be impossible to fully dissociate from it.

Point 3. Even this was not enough to maintain power. So they turned to gerrymandering. They have controlled most redistricting efforts from the last two censuses, and have created bizarrely configured but thoroughly safe districts. As if that weren't good enough, they've also sought in every way possible to suppress the votes of people who would turn out to vote against them, and to depress voting totals in general, which favors them.

They could not win only on policy, so they turned to culture wars. They could not win on culture wars alone, so they decided to cheat.

-----

To come down from this would require a large number of republicans to look back on the last 30+ years of their lives and say "You know, I've been wrong about everything, and it's time I did the right thing, even if it means my career's over."

They do not have the kind of character or courage that this would require - so you can bet they'll be going down with the ship.

Very well written and 100% accurate IMO

[Fogelhund]

It's deeper than that, and I don't think there's any way to extricate themselves at this stage.

Point 1. The policy playbook that they have clung to for the past 40 years is essentially one which doesn't work at all for anybody but the wealthy. Their policies are demonstrably bad, poorly thought out, and often based on nothing more than somebody's intuition, repeated 4,000 times by friendly think tanks. They simply don't do anything to make society better or life better for the vast majority of Americans. And it's obvious.

Tax cuts for the wealthy and shrinking the scope of what Government does for people, busting up unions, cutting regulation, taking a laissez-faire approach to any and all markets - if we had never tried these things, perhaps they'd have some sort of point to make.

But we've literally tried all of these things for 40 years and all it's gotten us is a diminished country where people have fewer opportunities, live worse lives, and where the income gap is as large or larger than it was the peak of the gilded age.

The only people who believe that GOP economic policies are good are people who are either very wealthy or thoroughly bamboozled. So they haven't really been genuinely able to win on a grand scale with policy alone for ages.

Point 2. They have relied on nativism, xenophobia, religious zealotry and racism for so long, and fed their voter base a steady diet of outrage for so long, that they cannot digest anything else. They are now prisoners to this base, having gerrymandered themselves into safe districts, they fear only primary challengers who can turn the outrage quotient up to 11. So of course, they back ever more radical social views. We are now at a point where a CHILD MOLESTER is likely to win a seat in the U.S. Senate because he presents views that the nativist, xenophobic, Christian fascist base feels good about.

This base cares more about sticking it to people they don't like than any practical concern. The world could burn down around them and they wouldn't complain so long as the people they hate were burned first.

This is entirely a phenomenon of their own making - they have encourage this for decades, and have used it so long and so often, it'd be impossible to fully dissociate from it.

Point 3. Even this was not enough to maintain power. So they turned to gerrymandering. They have controlled most redistricting efforts from the last two censuses, and have created bizarrely configured but thoroughly safe districts. As if that weren't good enough, they've also sought in every way possible to suppress the votes of people who would turn out to vote against them, and to depress voting totals in general, which favors them.

They could not win only on policy, so they turned to culture wars. They could not win on culture wars alone, so they decided to cheat.

-----

To come down from this would require a large number of republicans to look back on the last 30+ years of their lives and say "You know, I've been wrong about everything, and it's time I did the right thing, even if it means my career's over."

They do not have the kind of character or courage that this would require - so you can bet they'll be going down with the ship.

I think you've articulated much of the issues very well, though I feel as if you've missed one factor, or I just missed it, though I will admit that you could classify it under outrage. That is simply the selling of fear. There has long been the usage of fear, to drive policy and control the public. Fear of the Commies, to fund wars, that really had nothing to do with communism. Fear of that guy with nukes... there never were nukes, nor were there issues in many of the other military actions, but they served other commercial purposes, control of oil, etc... Fear of each other, fear of the government, sell guns, divide and conquer, fear of everyone who isn't us...

America the Brave, was sold out a long time ago, to America the Fearful.

[Jason]

Bravo, Alex

[MR2 Fan]

I think you've articulated much of the issues very well, though I feel as if you've missed one factor, or I just missed it, though I will admit that you could classify it under outrage. That is simply the selling of fear. There has long been the usage of fear, to drive policy and control the public. Fear of the Commies, to fund wars, that really had nothing to do with communism. Fear of that guy with nukes... there never were nukes, nor were there issues in many of the other military actions, but they served other commercial purposes, control of oil, etc... Fear of each other, fear of the government, sell guns, divide and conquer, fear of everyone who isn't us...

America the Brave, was sold out a long time ago, to America the Fearful.

Agreed with this as well. The irony is how many right-wing candidates ran on the "you can't trust the government, so vote for me" campaigns. Now they are "the government", can right wingers still not trust them? So instead, they make this pretzel logic where if anyone disagrees with the Trump (or whoever's) it's they're traitors to whatever right wing cause they have made up in their heads.

As already briefly mentioned, I fully believe that if one-by-one the other GOP members stood against Trump & co. many would be like "get rid of that swamp thing/RINO/whatever" until only Trump and his very small amount of remaining cohorts are left. Maybe we can convince Trump to become dictator........of his own island in the middle of the pacific and he can take his supporters with him, then he can dictate all he wants!!

[21Kid]

Alex for President! :rawk:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Taimar, just wondering if you also agree Hillary is better than Sanders?

[G'day Mate]

So in just one hour we find out the results of the same sex marriage survey in Australia.

[G'day Mate]

And it's a big yes - 61%

[FaultyMario]

Now that you're officially prog, can you take that annoying shitstain of whitey hair back, please?

[G'day Mate]

It's not official until the politicians get the legislation sorted.

[Tom Servo]

And it's a big yes - 61%

:up:

[G'day Mate]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5083143/Cards-Against-Humanity-stops-Trump-border-wall.html

[dodint]

'So we've purchased a plot of vacant land on the border and retained a law firm specializing in eminent domain to make it as time-consuming and expensive as possible for the wall to get built.'


Good luck.

And all that expense will be paid by the US taxpayer.

[G'day Mate]

Fair point

[dodint]

Congrats on the survey, by the way. I just assumed you had taken care of that years ago given Australia tends to handle stuff like gun control and immigration so much better than the US.

[KillerB]

Congrats on the survey, by the way. I just assumed you had taken care of that years ago given Australia tends to handle stuff like gun control and immigration so much better than the US.

:lol::up:

[Tom Servo]

Good luck.

And all that expense will be paid by the US taxpayer.

It's also worth noting that this was already an issue. There are people who own land where they want to build the wall, and those people may not want to sell. If this helps bring publicity to that issue and maybe stops the whole stupid idea from happening, I'd consider that a victory.

[Tom Servo]

I'm not sure which thread this should be in, here or Gun Control, but apparently we're having enough shootings that Trump is forgetting to change the city in his canned tweets.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOpbgs0VwAApeWE.jpg:large

[Random]

No, he just hates California that much. ;)

[G'day Mate]

Wow, that was five hours ago and it's still there

[Yw-slayer]

Horrific grammar too. Sad!

[Random]

Verb agreement is for commies!

[Fogelhund]

Fox talks about the Clinton Uranium One scandal...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shep-smith-breaks-fox-news-130805515.html?.tsrc=fauxdal

[Crazed_Insanity]

General Kelly has made it abundantly clear... ignore the president's tweets.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a08f5bce4b01d21c83f690f

[Dicknose]

As Gday mentioned the same sex marriage survey got up.
Now it’s legislation time. Big issue will be the “can bakers refuse to sell a cake”!
It’s been a terrible exercise, waste of money from the govt and both sides. The politicians should have decided, that’s their job.
What will be interesting is that the politician who is one of the strongest against SSM represents an area that had one of the highest results for SSM. Will be interesting if he votes according to his opinion or theirs! Anyway he is becoming a pain, was the previous prime minister and got ousted and now just seems to play games to annoy people.

[Dicknose]

And to keep Oz politics going, we are still having fallout from our dual citizenship debacle.
Summary - rules say you can’t be in federal parliament if you are a citizen of another country.
We have something like 25+% of our population born in another country, roughly half the population has one or both parents born in another country.
So not surprisingly many people have dual citizenship “via descent”, from countries such as New Zealand, England, Italy.
Turns out a number of our politicians had dual citizenship and didn’t know, they have now been kicked out.
A few more have now been found that knew, applied to renounce their citizenship but the paperwork didn’t happen in time. These people might get kicked out.
It’s a mess. We need by-elections for some positions, including one for my local seat. If these go against the govt they could lose power!
It’s a complete mess, has made the politicians look stupid and lowered peoples already low respect for them.
Also not something the govt needed at a time when it’s got a small hold on power and performing badly.

So I get to vote in a few weeks. The guy who got kicked out looks like recontesting (now he is actually eligible) and up against him will be an American born women who was a former premier of the state, Kristina Keneally. Oh just went to google her and got to “kris” and her name was top, ahead of Kristen Stewart and Bell.
She still has a very noticible American accent, she came her after college. And yes she is a citizen and has renounced her US citizenship.

[George]

So I get to vote in a few weeks. The guy who got kicked out looks like recontesting (now he is actually eligible) and up against him will be an American born women who was a former premier of the state, Kristina Keneally. Oh just went to google her and got to “kris” and her name was top, ahead of Kristen Stewart and Bell.
She still has a very noticible American accent, she came her after college. And yes she is a citizen and has renounced her US citizenship.

I just googled "kris" and the first suggestion was Krispy Kreme. How typical for America!

For those who don't know, it's a doughnut store: https://krispykreme.com/

https://s18.postimg.org/dud0bs62h/image.png

[Yw-slayer]

Given Google's algorithms, I am not surprised that you both got different results.

[dodint]

As Gday mentioned the same sex marriage survey got up.
Now it’s legislation time. Big issue will be the “can bakers refuse to sell a cake”!
It’s been a terrible exercise, waste of money from the govt and both sides. The politicians should have decided, that’s their job.
What will be interesting is that the politician who is one of the strongest against SSM represents an area that had one of the highest results for SSM. Will be interesting if he votes according to his opinion or theirs! Anyway he is becoming a pain, was the previous prime minister and got ousted and now just seems to play games to annoy people.

Your cake comment intrigues me.

How much do you think shifts in American Law affects your political culture? Like, are you following Masterpiece to see about how we handle baking gay cakes, or will you just figure it out on your own one day?

[Fogelhund]

Warren, Franken... I've grown to like Franken, just a no BS kind of guy.


Oops... Ok, not Al Franken then...

[dodint]

:lol:

[neanderthal]

Can we take a moment to talk about the fact that the Republican controlled Congress just passed a humongous tax bill, one that guts all sorts of services, in less than TWO weeks, having held not a single solitary hearing about it?

And Donny is talking about "welfare reform" after that; basically that's dog whistle for medicaid and social security that you've paid for your entire working life. But use the word welfare and the mouth breathers who's political thoughts are decided for them and espoused on Faux News are quick to get riled.

[neanderthal]

I warned, right here, that they were really after social security, many moons ago. And they're patient.

[Tom Servo]

The whole "not holding a hearing" thing seems to be their MO lately. They did that with every attempt at healthcare bills, and I remember there was some other horrible thing they tried to ram through too.

Much like the healthcare bills, I figured the house was a given. It's the senate where it needs to be stopped.

[neanderthal]

The whole "not holding a hearing" thing seems to be their MO lately. They did that with every attempt at healthcare bills, and I remember there was some other horrible thing they tried to ram through too.

Much like the healthcare bills, I figured the house was a given. It's the senate where it needs to be stopped.

The only positive I see with the election of Dondon is the mobilisation of the masses; people are getting involved, calling their representatives, questioning the motives of bills and the authors, etc.
But, I know people who've already tired of being politically engaged and consistently outraged; they want to just check out and put it all on autopilot again. We waver, we falter, and shady shit flies under the radar, and suddenly we're a joke of our former selves, a third world nation. And it'll be embarassing; as if this predicament we're in, the so called greatest nation on earth and we don't have adequate healthcare for our citizens, isn't enough.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oops... Ok, not Al Franken then...

It'd be a shame if this end up causing the senate to lose a democratic vote...

Where are the accusers for Trump!!!

[tigeraid]

Semi-related: I'd like to honestly hear my American friends' opinions on this situation. Because I go back and forth a bit on the whole "all speech should be free" thing.


https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/3kvwdb/editor-of-canadas-most-racist-newspaper-charged-with-hate-crimes



On November 15, Toronto Police charged Sears with two accounts wilful promotion of hatred against identifiable groups (women and Jewish people) for the content found in Your Ward News, a community paper in which he is the editor-in-chief. The publisher of Your Ward News, Leroy St. Germaine, 76, is facing the same charges. The two were arrested Wednesday morning.

The paper, in recent years, has become one of Canada’s most notorious publications. Inside its pages you can find rape advocacy, an abundant amount of anti-Semitism, conspiracy theories, and just too much to list here. One article, published last year, states that “age of consent should be the age at which a woman can safely have sex, and not a random number chosen by our ZioMarxist oppressors.”


Contrast this situation with the one from a few years ago where Canada's Human Rights Tribunal found a comedian guilty for calling some really annoying female hecklers a variety of lesbian/overweight slurs. He was charged and, frankly, I don't agree with that one.

[Kchrpm]

The American standard is typically that you can, legally, say anything that doesn't do one of the following:
1) Promote violence against an individual or group ("I hate Jews" is legal, "we should attack Jews" is not)
2) Incites panic (the common example being yelling "fire" in a crowded theater
3) State things as fact which it can be proven that you know aren't
4) I'm sure other things I'm forgetting

The reasoning given for #1 is that, if you make hate speak illegal to even say, it will still be said but only in private and with more group-think that is never questioned, leading to outrageous and inflammatory views.

[Tom Servo]

I think the "rape advocacy" part could definitely fall under promoting violence and get you charged down here. Then again, that whole "incels" group on Reddit basically have been doing that forever and nobody seemed to go after them.

The rest of it is horrible stuff, and shouldn't be without consequences (like the rest of the world knowing what a piece of shit he is), but I don't think he could be prosecuted over any of it. How it could get him into trouble is if he ever actually committed a crime against a Jewish person, or a woman, or what have you. If he did that and has a long published history of saying that he hates Jews, I'd imagine that could be used to enhance any existing charge as a hate crime.

[dodint]

In the US there are a few limited classes of unprotected speech/expression that apply to individuals:

1) Subversive Activity. The speech must advocate for and likely incite imminent lawless action. "Hey everyone in the crowd, lets kill that person!"

2) Fighting Words. Words uttered from one person to another in a face to face setting that are likely to cause a response of violence. "Hey, I'm going to kill you myself, motherfucker!"

3) True Threats. A serious statement of intent to commit unlawful violence. "Hey, I'm going to harm you badly!"

4) Obscenity. Utterances/Publication subject to the three part Miller test: 1) Does the average person think this thing encourages an excessive interest in a sexual matter? 2) Does it depict or describe, in an offensive way, sexual conduct? 3) Does the work lack seriously literary, artistic, political, or scientific value?

5) Child Pornography. Duh.

So, that said, the only class of unprotected speech in play is probably item 4, obscenity. That's generally meant to distinguish gratuitous pornography from other 'useful' forms of sexually focused material. In practice obscenity laws are pretty much dead now that everything is available online to anyone.

Generally, in America, the free market is the mechanism by which unpalatable speech is supposed to be dealt with. If you have a stupid white power opinion or a repulsive racist mindset cloaked in Black Lives Matter garb most people will not take you seriously. Unfortunately with the rise of social media and the joy of being offended by everything you come in contact with, these ideas manage to rise to the top more than they should. Charlottesville could've just been a bunch of angry and sad white dudes shouting into the night, but, thanks to the counter-protesters and the unemployed outraged it became a national story and the White Power turds were given a global platform. But I digress.

To answer your question, no, this kind of thing would not happen in America and stand up to judicial scrutiny. Writing in a newspaper does not incite imminent violence, etc.

[tigeraid]

Hmm. Interesting. And different responses.

[dodint]

I'm not a lawyer, yet. But I am a law student that did study constitutional law this semester and we spent 4 weeks covering Freedom of Speech including this specific issue.

You don't have to believe me. Just if we're going to put credentials on the table I think mine stack up pretty handily against the opposing submissions in this case on this issue.

I'm open to compelling opposing viewpoints if there are any.

[tigeraid]

No reason to doubt you, I meant in terms of OPINIONS from Americans. When I shared it with several American friends on facebook they all pretty much said "yeah fuck this guy he can rot in jail, he's said enough to incite violence, etc etc."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not a lawyer nor law student, actually I hate laws, even God's, but anyway, I'm in agreement with the law student.

Canada is just not as free to say stupid things as America! ;)

[dodint]

I don't doubt that's the populist response at all. It's just not backed by precedent in the legal system. My 'opinion' is probably too technical for your query, keep it as an outlier if you want. I only responded because Keith took up the mantle of speaking to the "American standard" and then spoke mostly subjectively. He's not wrong, in fact his awareness is very high, I just wanted to put out the precedential standard out there because the conversation seemed to be going in a way that was taking a lot for granted in terms of what is punishable.

On a personal side from the Libertarian perspective I still don't put someone in jail because they say horrible awful things in print. Sticks and Stones n'at, you can't have the government jailing people for bad opinions or thought-crime. No thanks.

[FaultyMario]

Bill Belichick is a Grade A douchenoozle.

[drew]

I heard he 69s the president.


You're welcome for the mental image.

[speedpimp]

Add in Jerry Jones taking Goodell from behind with no lube and Rex Ryan worshiping their feet while cranking one out completes the picture.

[Sad, little man]

I have nothing constructive to add, but I do have this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEelDiF7fSY

[Tom Servo]

It will be awfully handy to refer back to these "The only thing worse than a child molester is a democrat" tweets next time someone accuses me of being too partisan.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I really believe even God is sick and tired of partisan politics in US...

That's probably why He flooded the red states with blue waters and burned the blue states with red fire... hoping to mix the colors up a bit.

America will never be great again nor will it ever be better, because we don't want to be together, if we continue down this path. How united are our states?

I suppose it's better that America rots from within rather than becoming a truly evil empire and does more harm to the rest of the world.

Our only hope is to clone more Bernie Sanders. Battle of the blue vs red is really quite meaningless. Which ever side wins, Americans and the rest of the world end up losing.

If only we can truly mix blue and red together to form a nation of magenta..., it's sorely needed right now.


The color magenta is one of universal harmony and emotional balance. It is spiritual yet practical, encouraging common sense and a balanced outlook on life.

This is a color that helps to create harmony and balance in every aspect of life; physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually.

[neanderthal]

Just a friendly reminder that Flint STILL doesn't have clean water. Nevermind Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands.

[G'day Mate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmkXR7EL_RY

Keith Olberman seems to think it's all done

[Jason]

We've been saying "Trump is finished" since shortly after he announced he was running.

[dodint]

Yeah, I wondered if "147" was the number of times it has been declared.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just a friendly reminder that Flint STILL doesn't have clean water. Nevermind Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands.

Both Obama and Trump had a role in providing funding for Flint's water crisis... I thought funding was made available earlier this year. What the fuck is the local government not doing now? Sigh...

[Sad, little man]

What the fuck is the local government not doing now? Sigh...
:lol:

[G'day Mate]

In local Australian news, a gay marriage bill just passed our upper house of Parliament. If approved fairly quickly by the lower house then we could have gay marriage by the end of the week.

[Tom Servo]

:up:

[Jason]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

Trump is now retweeting videos from Britain First.

(also, oddly enough, this is how I found out Matt Lauer has been canned for sexual misconduct)

[Fogelhund]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

Trump is now retweeting videos from Britain First.

(also, oddly enough, this is how I found out Matt Lauer has been canned for sexual misconduct)

Everytime that you think that he can't sink lower, he says, hold my beer.


..and as much as I dislike Hillary, she was right, deplorables.

[MR2 Fan]

he keeps digging a bigger hole for himself....and every time I'm hoping this will be the linchpin to force congress to act....every time I'm disappointed (so far)

[neanderthal]

Retweeting the anti Muslim tweets is a smokescreen. While we focus on that tweet the abhorrent tax plan is going through the Senate. Trump's done this before.

[Jason]

he keeps digging a bigger hole for himself....and every time I'm hoping this will be the linchpin to force congress to act....every time I'm disappointed (so far)

No one actually cares what he does anymore, so I'd reel those hopes in.

[neanderthal]

I warned, right here, that they were really after social security, many moons ago. And they're patient.

https://www.fa-mag.com/news/rubio-offset-tax-cuts-by-reducing-social-security-medicare-benefits-35928.html

[neanderthal]

And, by the way, the reason the GOP can pursue very unpopular objectives like this tax scam and healthcare and so on, is because they are also enacting voter restrictions, curbing voting hours, redistricting and gerrymandering everything.

[neanderthal]

And, don't forget they are stacking the courts right now with people who are demonstrably unqualified to be on the bench. When they invoked the" nuclear option" for judicial appointments they had to go all in on their agenda. And install their 2 minute offense.

They are aware that what they are doing is patently unpopular and the chance of them regaining the respect of the populance at the voting booth is very small. They are taking steps to ensure they have a presence in the legislation. If they can't bein the White House or House of Reps they'll be in the third branch of government.

[neanderthal]

Which means every one of you in a red state needs to call your Senator about this tax scam. Please.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow. GOP and Trump are really good at politics.

What's wrong with Democratic Party?

And stupid bernie couldn't even win primaries... sigh...

Oh, I forgot, it's all the stupid deplorable voters' fault.

People need to put trumps tweets on ignore. If you can resist Billi, you can resist trump!

One thing you have to hand it to Trump, that's his survivability. Take all these sex harassment scandals..., most end up with destroyed careers, but the dude ended up promoted into the White House. If we survive destruction of the world, historians should have a field day studying trump...

[Tom Servo]

That's dangerously close to saying "Man, you really gotta hand it to Manson, he was great at getting people to kill for him."

[neanderthal]

That's dangerously close to saying "Man, you really gotta hand it to Manson, he was great at getting people to kill for him."

Your response prompted me to look. It doesn't come dangerously close to saying that. It does.

Billi. Cheating people out of their constitutionally granted right to vote is not "being good at politics."

It's easy to ignore you. In the grand scheme of things you don't affect my life or that of those I love. Trump does. he affects dark skinned people, females, the LGBQT community, immigrants, the disabled, and, if it passes, the GOP tax plan he is championing will fuck YOU over, so yeah, go "great politicians."

[21Kid]

Retweeting the anti Muslim tweets is a smokescreen. While we focus on that tweet the abhorrent tax plan is going through the Senate. Trump's done this before.

You're giving him too much credit. He's not smart enough to strategize like that. His entire thought process is more like "Hah! This will piss them off! Watch this!!!" *click*
and everyone goes "ZOMG! I can't believe he did that!"

[Crazed_Insanity]

Let's stick with the GOP is the mass killer analogy... so one would have to assume the Democratic party is the FBI or the police? Anyway, of course ideally we want the good to triumph over evil..., but somehow US government is leaning more and more 'evil', whether it's the supreme court or congress and now even the white house!!! When this happens, how should one describe the 'evil' side?

Really good at cheating I suppose...otherwise how else could they achieve such overwhelming victory? Anyway, forget about the evil side.

What is wrong with the FBI or the police? Why can't they crack down on the bad guys?

Blaming and whining about Manson or other mass cheaters is really of no real use. Don't you guys think it's time we try to make the FBI or the police more effective than the bad guys?

Anyway, it's interesting that Swervo picked Manson... Manson wasn't that great of a killer, but he's a darn good cult leader... and a cult leader is what we have as our president now. Maybe in an insane way, this is good... because only an insane mind can truly understand what the terrorist leaders and the dude at NK are thinking about and how to counter react and crush them? I dunno, we live in an insane world.

[Jason]

Al Franken needs to step down. Too many allegations to claim it's a smear job, and it's hypocritical for us to continue to support someone accused of sexual assault, while simultaneously claiming to be the party of equality and women's rights.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Regarding all these sex allegations... I dunno, are liberals just more liberal at sexual assaults? If you do the tallies, there are probably way more 'liberal' sexual predators with careers destroyed than conservative ones. I have a hard time believing the 'conservatives' are really less sexually "assaultive" than liberals.

I'm kinda conflicted with this issue, while it is good that we get rid of sexual predators, but I'm beginning to think this is turning into a witch hunt. Removal of Al is going to hurt...

Anyway, I guess GOP doesn't need to cheat anymore... Democratic Party will self destruct... Conservative voters will be emboldened that liberals are just bunch of sinful sexual maniancs and continue their unwavering support of their very own pussy grabbing born again president.

Get your acts together Democrats!

Sigh...:(

[mk]

Once there were green fields...

[neanderthal]

Regarding all these sex allegations... I dunno, are liberals just more liberal at sexual assaults? If you do the tallies, there are probably way more 'liberal' sexual predators with careers destroyed than conservative ones. I have a hard time believing the 'conservatives' are really less sexually "assaultive" than liberals.

I'm kinda conflicted with this issue, while it is good that we get rid of sexual predators, but I'm beginning to think this is turning into a witch hunt. Removal of Al is going to hurt...

Anyway, I guess GOP doesn't need to cheat anymore... Democratic Party will self destruct... Conservative voters will be emboldened that liberals are just bunch of sinful sexual maniancs and continue their unwavering support of their very own pussy grabbing born again president.

Get your acts together Democrats!

Sigh...:(

Where on earth did you get that?

There is a fund that has paid millions to victims of sexual harassment. There is a list of offenders. The list hasn't been released. The only one we know of for sure is John Conyers, and there have been calls from his Democratic fellows for him to step down (he did from the Judicial Committee; wouldn't help to have him sitting on it if it comes time to impeach Trump on similar) and to resign. He has chosen not to. Franken was outed from his time prior to joining the Senate. I haven't kept up with who else has come forth about him.

This is in stark contrast to the known predator in the White House, who has 16 accusers, some who were in their teens when they were harassed, but no calls from his party for him to resign. Party over country.

Where is your call to "get your act together Republicans?" Or do you have a different standard for them?

[neanderthal]

Al Franken needs to step down. Too many allegations to claim it's a smear job, and it's hypocritical for us to continue to support someone accused of sexual assault, while simultaneously claiming to be the party of equality and women's rights.

This.

Nice knowing you Al.

[Fogelhund]

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/dana-nessel-campaign-ad_us_5a1f1116e4b0d52b8dc25af9

Who can you trust most not to show you their penis in a professional setting? Is it the candidate who doesn’t have a penis? I’d say so.”

[George]

"I won’t walk around in a half-open bathrobe"

That could be good. That could be bad. Need picture of candidate to be sure. :lol:

[drew]

The thing that "gets" me about all this, the Fox "News" et al, saying "SEE AL FRANKEN DID IT TOO!" in "defense" of Cunt Moore.

I'm sorry, but that's not even the same fucking thing.

Both are unacceptable, yes, but to no degree are they even remotely the same level of deplorable.

Fuck Roy Moore. If he wins, fuck all of Alabama. I will go out of my way to drive around it if we ever travel to Texas via I10.

Who am I kidding. Fuck Texas too :finger:

[Fogelhund]

The thing that "gets" me about all this, the Fox "News" et al, saying "SEE AL FRANKEN DID IT TOO!" in "defense" of Cunt Moore.



See, when you defend sexual assault, or attempt to justify it, it's a deplorable action. It shouldn't be... see, he did it too... it's all bad, no matter who did it.

Anyone who thinks that one side has more than the other, is either dense, or has frontal lobe damage. That any party would let someone run, after this has come up is simply brutal. Fuck them all.

[Yw-slayer]

"I won’t walk around in a half-open bathrobe"

That could be good. That could be bad. Need picture of candidate to be sure. :lol:

Watch the video, man.

[Crazed_Insanity]

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/dana-nessel-campaign-ad_us_5a1f1116e4b0d52b8dc25af9

Who can you trust most not to show you their penis in a professional setting? Is it the candidate who doesn’t have a penis? I’d say so.”

Remember the 1994 film Disclosure by Michael Douglas and Demi Moore?

There can be penisless sexual predators.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Where is your call to "get your act together Republicans?" Or do you have a different standard for them?

Republicans' are already acting together somewhat... They have control of all 3 branches of government.

Don't really care about Hollywood scandals, but when democrats can't win seats and now giving up seats because of this, that's a big concern...

But even Hollywood scandals, I feel bad for the countless folks who've lost work because of these scandals. I think enough is enough. I think these predators should've learned their lessons... if anything, lets out the guys who are doing things now rather than years or decades ago...

[drew]

See, when you defend sexual assault, or attempt to justify it, it's a deplorable action. It shouldn't be... see, he did it too... it's all bad, no matter who did it.

Anyone who thinks that one side has more than the other, is either dense, or has frontal lobe damage. That any party would let someone run, after this has come up is simply brutal. Fuck them all.

Totally agree. What Franken (and Lauer, Conyers, etc) allegedly did is wholly despicable, and reprehensible. What Moore allegedly did is that and a hell-worthy trespass (if you're into that). The others are accusations involving adults. Moore's are not.

But then, we have a president who was on camera stating he can do what he wants, because he's rich. I wonder what the outrage would have been if HRC said something similar. "I just start yanking dicks"


Fuck them all.

[FaultyMario]

Watch the video, man.

I thought it was a banner!


But, no I wouldn't hesitate to go down on her.

[Tom Servo]

Sounds like Flynn may be singing like a canary. He's being charged with one count of lying to the FBI and expected to plead guilty this morning.

[21Kid]

:lol: Drew, I would love to hear that sound-clip.

[novicius]

But, no I wouldn't hesitate to go down on her.
:lol: :shocker:

[novicius]

Sounds like Flynn may be singing like a canary. He's being charged with one count of lying to the FBI and expected to plead guilty this morning.
:up: :up:

Provide us with the names, dates and places -- as well as the methods used to ensure plausible deniability, kthxbye.

[Fogelhund]

Republicans' are already acting together somewhat... They have control of all 3 branches of government.

Don't really care about Hollywood scandals, but when democrats can't win seats and now giving up seats because of this, that's a big concern...

But even Hollywood scandals, I feel bad for the countless folks who've lost work because of these scandals. I think enough is enough. I think these predators should've learned their lessons... if anything, lets out the guys who are doing things now rather than years or decades ago...

No, Fuck them all. That their missteps were years ago, doesn't excuse their behaviour. Their victims may still be suffering the after affects, so they deserve what's coming to them.

[Jason]

So, who else has a freedom boner?

[dodint]

I do but it's a workplace requirement.

[MR2 Fan]

I do but it's a workplace requirement.

:lol:

So things will really go into overdrive now...wonder how it will end? impeachment, resignation or 25th amendment?

[Crazed_Insanity]

No, Fuck them all. That their missteps were years ago, doesn't excuse their behaviour. Their victims may still be suffering the after affects, so they deserve what's coming to them.

For sure the behaviors are not excusable..., not the point I was trying to make. It's just that if the liberals continue to throw stones as each other, pretty much all liberals will be stoned to death... and the Republican sexual predators will be the only ones left standing at powerful positions... and we'll all be fucked and harassed from behind.

Be realistic. These are powerful political offices. We're not voting for the pope or any sort of 'moral' leaders.

[Fogelhund]

Michael Flynn "is prepared to testify...against Pres. Trump, against members of the Trump family, and others in the White House," @BrianRoss reports.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael-flynn-charged-making-false-statements-fbi-documents/story?id=50849354

Yup, dominoes falling.


--------------------------------------------------

The Treasury inspector general announced yesterday that he will open an inquiry into whether Mnuchin has tried to hide the department’s analysis. “Either the Treasury Department has used extensive taxpayer funds to conduct economic analyses that it refuses to release because those analyses would contradict the Treasury secretary’s claims, or Secretary Mnuchin has grossly misled the public about the extent of the Treasury Department’s analysis,” Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) wrote in a letter calling for an investigation. “I am deeply concerned about either possibility.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/12/01/daily-202-in-pursuit-of-a-tax-bill-trump-s-gop-keeps-violating-more-governing-norms/5a20305e30fb0469e883f945/?utm_term=.976d622aa41c

[Tom Servo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP-YI-sWAAAszKg.jpg:large

Yep, he's singing.

[George]

So, who else has a freedom boner?

You found the video too?

[21Kid]

I can't see how/why anyone would stand behind Trump. He's thrown everyone under the bus, stabbed them in the back, etc... the first chance he gets. I just hope others get taken down with him. Pence isn't going to be much better. :(

[novicius]

Party before Country. #shrug

[GreatScawt]

May all their heads fuckin' roll. Including our orange, human trash president.

[Jason]

In other news, Republicans have enough votes to push through their tax bill.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Donny's head really should be rolling after the access hollywood tape..., but instead, he ended up winning the white house.

I'd like to see him eventually removed, but not holding my breath.

With Trump gone, at least we won't be receiving annoying stupid tweets from Pence... hopefully he's removed too!

However, considering the line of succession:
Vice President Mike Pence.
Speaker of the House Paul Ryan.
Senate President Pro Tempore Orrin Hatch.
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.
Secretary of the Treasury Steven Mnuchin.
Secretary of Defense James Mattis.
Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

I don't think I want any of them to be my president... maybe Mattis is okay...

[Sad, little man]

My message to Robert Mueller:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibvYxe43cCQ

[Tom Servo]

According to a reporter at Bloomberg News, the white house counsel literally sent a response in comic sans. He maintains that this is exactly as he received the statement: https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/936726050133995521

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP_rYKJUEAAT9bH.jpg

[neanderthal]

GOP going into overdrive trying to get their tax scam passed. They know time isn't on their side.

Edit; they just passed it 51:49.

[neanderthal]

I NEVER want to hear the words "moderate Republican" or "fiscal Conservative" from these cunts again.

If Americans don't absolutely punish the GOP at the polls by voting for Democratic Party candidates (hear that billi?) in every. single. election. from now, it's on you.

[MR2 Fan]

This is great, the GOP now have NO "moral" or "fiscal" ground to stand on....it could be the death of the party as it is.

[drew]

One can only hope.

A lot can happen in a year, mainly, people forgetting shit.


Fuck every one of those assholes.

[G'day Mate]

Tax reform passed hey? I hear the add-on bonuses include drilling for oil in pristine Arctic wilderness and political lobbying by religious groups. Anything else?

[drew]

Life begins at conception. Don't forget that one.

jesus fucking christ.

[G'day Mate]

Oh dear, that too?

[drew]

Yep. So they're effectively outlawing abortion, AND potentially making miscarriages/etc criminal offenses.

Which, you know, has everything to do with taxes....


Fuck them.

[Sad, little man]

Trump lawyer: "Collusion is not a crime" (In other words... Quick! Move the goalposts again, they're getting too close!)

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/362929-trump-lawyer-collusion-is-not-a-crime

Hooo boy, Trump's legal team is dodging and weaving in a way that would make an alpine skier jealous.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump's legal team is the main star I think. Just like Weinstein's... have star legal teams that can fuck over other people. These are the types of predators who willfully do harm and hire team of folks to cover their tracks..., they are the type that absolutely need to be removed, not just the ones who hugged for too long (Pixar head) or touched somebody's bare back accidentally (host of prairie home companion).

Don't we have any star lawyers working on the side of justice? If not, I do hope trump suffer the same fate as Harvey soon...

[neanderthal]

And I don't want to hear the "both parties are the same" or "I don't like/ follow politics" hot takes either.

Americans should be very angry and feel extremely VENGEFUL at the GOP for a very long time after this. Even if they don't actually get to reconcile the House and Senate versions (almost insignificant chance. This was their one chance to really suck their donors dicks and they're not going to blow it.)

GOP tax scam, Republican Tax scam, GOP can't be trusted, Republicans can't be trusted and variations of those should be repeated so frequently as to become part of the lingua franca of even those that are news and politically illiterate.

With this tax scam passed now, I think there is going to be a redoubling of efforts to seat judges while they still control government. They know the senate and house are in peril. I think you're going to see efforts to divide the left from from within (Bernie et al) and without (Jill Stein et al) and you're going to see a renewed push to advance a non right wing agenda in news and media that's virulently anti liberal (so not Fox News etc) and a slew of bots in every social media. The divide the left effort will be unyielding

[Tom Servo]

Side note: Trump tweeted out this morning that he had to fire Flynn because Flynn lied to Pence and the FBI.

He's never acknowledged before that he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI. The day after he fired Flynn, he asked Comey to let things go. So either he's lying now, or he lied earlier and knowingly tried to interfere with an FBI investigation.

[drew]

Trump lawyer: "Collusion is not a crime" (In other words... Quick! Move the goalposts again, they're getting too close!)

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/362929-trump-lawyer-collusion-is-not-a-crime

Hooo boy, Trump's legal team is dodging and weaving in a way that would make an alpine skier jealous.


At this point, that's the fun part. It started as a collusion investigation, but can (and has) spin-off into a multi-faceted criminal investigation (likely of some magnificent scope). So, the "collusion" thing is small potatoes now. Per special counsel, any criminal wrong-doing and/or subsequent investigations stemming from the data pull/research is fair game.


Pretty sure Mueller doesn't give half a shit about "collusion." If anything, I think it'll just be a tack-on charge in the end. Like when they give you a seat-belt ticket because the security camera saw you driving up to the house where you murdered the whole family.

Again, fuck every one of these "people." I hope the whole lot of them goes down, and if they take any senators with them (GOP/other), so be it. Render anything they voted for/passed null/void at that point. All "Executive Orders" (albeit, they're pretty meaningless right now) get thrown in the trash.

I'm so fucked off right now with this shit, I really don't know what to do.

I think weekly reminders of each and every one of the GOP cunts that voted for this rape law is a start. "These are the assholes that didn't even give you dinner first" (of course they didn't, they killed Meals on Wheels too).


Fuck em all.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, problem with the left is that they divide themselves...

From Hillary and Bernie unable to work together...

To Democratic leaders calling for other democrats to resign based only on allegations and all the democratic voters happily cheer about that... all the while the republican sexual predators gain more strength in all branches of govt...

Trust me, people in red states will only be angry at democrats. Only hope will be the swing states finally realize republicans suck too...

[Tom Servo]

Therein lies the problem. The problem, as you describe it, is not putting party above country.

Goes back to a joke I heard a long time ago.

Two guys are in a bar, a republican and a democrat. Republican says "You know what your problem is? You're so worried about how other people are affected. We have the courage of our convictions. We fully believe what we say, no matter how it affects other people."

Democrat says "Yeah, I can see your point."

Republican replies "See what I fucking mean?"

[neanderthal]

Therein lies the problem. The problem, as you describe it, is not putting party above country.

Goes back to a joke I heard a long time ago.

Two guys are in a bar, a republican and a democrat. Republican says "You know what your problem is? You're so worried about how other people are affected. We have the courage of our convictions. We fully believe what we say, no matter how it affects other people."

Democrat says "Yeah, I can see your point."

Republican replies "See what I fucking mean?"

It's quite asinine that that's the problem; what upside down word do we live in where being a normal moral human being is seen as being a problem?

[Tom Servo]

So, now Trump's legal counsel is saying that he wrote the tweet where Trump admitted he knew that Flynn had lied to the FBI. I'm not sure if it's better to say that his tweets might be written by other people.

[Jason]

Surprised they didn't go with 'I was hacked!'

Fucking Teflon Don.

[G'day Mate]

Hmmm, I wonder who it was that admitted he said those the Access Hollywood were really him, now that he thinks they're fake?

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's quite asinine that that's the problem; what upside down word do we live in where being a normal moral human being is seen as being a problem?
That's not a problem usually if people are always moral. Problem is that nobody's perfect. Treating every accused as Harvey is way too harsh imho.

Regarding the Kevin spacey types, supposedly he already has established a reputation in Hollywood. Netflix's not completely clueless when they started house of cards. Now, that's out in the open, they suddenly realized that not working with him is the moral thing to do...

It's not really about morals at this point, if that's true, they would've done the right thing from the beginning long long time ago and not waited until now.

I don't know, this is a tricky issue. When Wells Fargo screwed up, I'd like to see the executives apologize and pay for their mistakes, but not to see the entire bank shut down with all employees losing their jobs.... with the recent sexual predator witch hunt, I mostly just feel bad for the regular folks losing their jobs over these messes...

[Tom Servo]

with the recent sexual predator witch hunt

I know I've had my battles with you, but that's the most asshole thing I think you've ever written. There are people who are literally destroying other people's lives using their power, and you're calling it a witch hunt.

You know what? There were witch hunts. And *women* were killed. This is a bunch of asshole men who used their power to fuck over women and they're getting what's coming to them.

Seriously. That might be the single most fucked up thing you've posted on here.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Removing somebody like Al, and give up more senate or other congressional seats to republicans will in the end remove more of women's rights.

What is at stake here?

Severely punishing a sex predator like Al or punish republicans?

[The359]

Uh, what? Democrats losing seats does not inherently mean women lose rights.

Women only lose rights if Republicans want to make it so.

[drew]

Their war on Planned Parenthood.

New "tax" bill that states life starts at conception.

Two examples.

[Jason]

Afaik it only states that in relation to whatever college savings account, no?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Point is codifying such concept in federal law making some sort of precedent. GOP is not as stupid as Trump.

Also Swervo, just wondering how Al Frankan's french kissing and groping ruined lives... I'm sure the women felt disgusted at the time and it's repugnant on Al's part, but I seriously doubt any women's lives were ruined under Al's hands and tongues.

Lastly, do you really believe now that Bill Clinton should've been removed as well? Surely he has screwed up more women's lives more seriously too. Or his transgression was less seriously because the he and the intern had consensual cigar sex? Slick Willy is better at manipulating women so the crime is less serious?

Anyway, these are fucked up disgusting behaviors and not trying to defend them, but when I see the liberal voters all turning into moral police and democratic leadership becoming Ken Starrs trying to bring down the democratic politicians... I'm sure the republicans are all laughing all the way to the capitol hill.

And then Neanderthal will end up becoming angry at 3rd party voters and the republicans... but this is another case of DNC self destructing.

When Roy Moore is elected, Trump and GOP will give him full support and not ask him to resign because of the allegations.

This is one of the reasons how GOP gains the white house and congressional seats while DNC suffers.

Liberals are not as moral as Jesus, quit playing the moral police on yourselves. If such moral police could bring down Trump, I'm all for it, but it's obvious now that the nation has 2 separate moral standards. Democrats need to show more forgiveness and mercy on each other... and learn to work together to defeat the GOP. Do it for the country for God's sake. This is not putting party above the nation!

[Sad, little man]

Trump's lawyer now states that he can't obstruct justice because he's the chief law enforcement officer. :lol:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/politics/trump-john-dowd-obstruct-justice/index.html

Dear god, his legal team is drinking the Kool-Aid.

[MR2 Fan]

where have i heard this before? oh yeah "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal" (Nixon)

[21Kid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C716C8V9bQ

[21Kid]

After Trump "turned down" the Time Person of the year. This would be amazing!


Colin Kaepernick a finalist for 'TIME' Person of Year (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/12/04/colin-kaepernick-finalist-time-person-year-nfl/918767001/)
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/7658c64720ecee05ab5b82122c6b594154c0f2f0/c=0-168-2284-3214&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/2017/10/25/USATODAY/USATODAY/636445515471005758-XXX-IMG-2017-8-29-KAEPERNICK-1-1-0SJFJKT8-93381781.JPG

[G'day Mate]

:up:

Do it Time!

I see that Kim Jong Un is in the list too :D

HAH! Robert Mueller too!!!

[The359]

:up:

Do it Time!

I see that Kim Jong Un is in the list too :D

HAH! Robert Mueller too!!!

Hitler has won Person of the Year before. They go for the biggest news makers and influencial people, not exactly "good" people.

[sandydandy]

I remember Bin Laden was nominated in 2001, but they gave the award to Rudy Giuliani.

[G'day Mate]

Yeah, Stalin was awarded it too. Thing is, if Trump gets it he'll thinks it's an accolade.

[SportWagon]

In case anyone wasn't paying attention. Trump claims he was in the running for two years in a row.

https://www.today.com/news/president-elect-donald-trump-time-person-year-2016-t105684

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Person_of_the_Year#Persons_of_the_Year

indicates there have been several multiple recipients, including Richard Nixon, although in some cases it looks like the second time is "shared" somehow with someone else. (Though it's not clear the "sharing" is related to being a second-time recipient).

Franklin D. Roosevelt got it three times; 1932, 1934 and 1941. Stalin is one of the ones who got it twice.

While adjusting my DVR last night, I happened to see Conan interviewing Dan Rather, and they were touching on facets of the Trump administration.

[MR2 Fan]

Mueller has subpoena'd Deutsche Bank for info regarding Trump's funds....this could get VERY juicy.

Also a note, from what I've heard, Trump had such bad credit and bankruptcy issues in the U.S., no bank would lend money to him, so he had to go to overseas banks and probably why he...most likely...became deeply in debt with the Russians, and was too stupid to get out of it

[George]

Note to self: avoid Russian loan sharks.

[FaultyMario]

Mueller has subpoena'd Deutsche Bank for info regarding Trump's funds....this could get VERY juicy.

Also a note, from what I've heard, Trump had such bad credit and bankruptcy issues in the U.S., no bank would lend money to him, so he had to go to overseas banks and probably why he...most likely...became deeply in debt with the Russians, and was too stupid to get out of it


Harding says the subpoena suggests that “money laundering is at the heart of the [Mueller] investigation.” He pointed to the charges against Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chairman and the subject of Mueller’s first indictment, who is out on bail, accused of laundering money for Ukrainian and Russian clients.

At least it was entertaining clusterfuck of a presidency.

[21Kid]

This reminds me of Governor Walker in Wisconsin... 7-8 of his closest staff were charged with various criminal charges, while he is still in charge. I find it very difficult to believe that someone surrounded by that much corruption isn't at the heart of it all. And if he isn't... he's one hell of a bad leader, inattentive, poor judge of character, ignorant, etc...

And he's been doing the same thing; appointing crooked judges, overturning public lands, reducing labor laws, etc...

[dodint]

Fun fact: I had a roommate for two months, while transitioning to Wisconsin, that was a Walker staffer. Dude drank the Kool Aid hard and loves the taste. We never really talked politics because I don't want to make living their awkward. ;)

[tigeraid]

Oh good. Can't start a war with North Korea? Let's move to the Middle East.

https://splinternews.com/trumps-israel-embassy-plan-has-already-turned-into-a-to-1821023333



On Tuesday, the White House appeared ready to proceed with its previously stated plan to move the embassy and declare Jerusalem to be Israel’s capital—something other administrations have talked about but have never acted upon. Why? Because the final status of Jerusalem—a city jointly claimed by both Israelis and Palestinians as their capital—has yet to be determined, pending some future peace agreement between the two sides. While Israelis might celebrate the move, Palestinians would surely see it as both a rejection of their claim to Jerusalem and an unmistakable confirmation that the United States was an egregiously biased mediator in the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Well, all of that is happening now. In the Israeli-occupied West Bank, Palestinian political factions have unified ahead of a scheduled three “days of rage” protests.

“The Palestinian people know how to protect their rights,” Palestinian politician Jamal Mahisan told Israel’s Haaretz newspaper. “We are in consultations regarding [our moves] in the coming days.”

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, meanwhile, reportedly warned Trump that moving the embassy would have “dangerous consequences,” echoing the concerns of Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, who predicted “possible dangerous repercussions.” Turkey, meanwhile, warned the decision represented a “red line” for Muslims.

But Arab and Muslim leaders aren’t the only ones warning that the Trump administrations plan could be disastrous for the already tense region. In a letter to Trump Middle East envoy Jason Greenblatt, 25 former Israeli Ambassadors, academics and other dignitaries also publicly denounced the move


Is there anything left that is un-apologetically stupid shit-disturbing for him to do? What's next, The White House announces it support of the slave trade in Lybia? Bring back segregated schools? Re-invade Vietnam?

[21Kid]

War is good business... didn't you know? :(

[tigeraid]

Er oops. Idiot decision went through today, that was from yesterday. But yeah.

Also, he seemed to be drunk or heavily drugged during the speech.

https://splinternews.com/did-you-notice-trump-seriously-slurring-his-speech-duri-1821055139


After declaring he would “acknowledge the obvious”—Jerusalem as the capital city of Israel—Trump closed the speech by saying: “Thank you, God bless you, God bless Israel, God bless the Palestinians, and God bless the United Shhhstates.”

[MR2 Fan]

yeah, lots of people commenting about his slurred speech on twitter....could be lots of causes, none of them healthy

[21Kid]

He doesn't drink/do drugs I thought. Could be further psychological issues?

[MR2 Fan]

He doesn't drink/do drugs I thought. Could be further psychological issues?

:lol:

Carrie Fisher (RIP) was sure during one of the debates that he was on cocaine and that she was, sadly, an expert

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just heard a segment of this over NPR 'American leadership at brokering peace in the middle east has long been dead. Trump simply issued a death certificate.'

I wonder if they'll be able to find ambassadors willing to relocate to Jerusalem. Maybe hardcore Jews Christians... if I were an ambassador, I'm not even sure if I'd really want to work there... not unless God gave me very clear confirmations... like actually appearing in front of my face and spell out the words specifically.

Anyway, we just have to pretend that we're aliens from outer space sometimes. Trump is certainly very entertaining to watch from the outside..., but it sure is scary living in the same world with him...

[speedpimp]

He doesn't drink/do drugs I thought. Could be further psychological issues?

But two Big Macs, two Filet O Fish and a large chocolate shake every day will take their toll on you.

[FaultyMario]

“The territory north and east of the Rio Grande is very important to the Mexican people,” explained a PNA spokesperson. “Before American settlers showed up and implemented slavery, Mexico oversaw this land. Then, President Polk sent his armies to invade the rest of these Mexican territories, and force the country to give up California, New Mexico, most of Arizona, Nevada, and Utah, and parts of Wyoming and Colorado. We may soon recognize these states as part of Mexico too.” (https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/12/palestinians-recognize-texas-part-mexico/)

[neanderthal]

Am I the only one that saw the court ruling that bakers may discriminate against gay couples on religious grounds?

There. is. no. such. thing. as. a protest. vote.

Elections matter. At every fucking level.

What's next, signs that say "we don't serve colored people"

[Freude am Fahren]

That didn't really seem like drugs or drink to me. Well, maybe some drugs, but I think it was motor impairment from either a stroke, or dental work. I think if he spoke any longer he'd just start drooling on the mic.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m28fqoNnj41r3ptwe.gif

[G'day Mate]

Same sex marriage has passed our lower house now. They can start lodging forms or something tomorrow, and marriages can happen from Jan 9th.

In related news ... will these two follow through with their divorce (http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/what-now-for-couple-who-vowed-to-divorce-if-gay-marriage-became-legal/news-story/e866be909dc444d52760faa7d1c72bfa)?

No, duh.

[dodint]

“The territory north and east of the Rio Grande is very important to the Mexican people,” explained a PNA spokesperson. “Before American settlers showed up and implemented slavery, Mexico oversaw this land. Then, President Polk sent his armies to invade the rest of these Mexican territories, and force the country to give up California, New Mexico, most of Arizona, Nevada, and Utah, and parts of Wyoming and Colorado. We may soon recognize these states as part of Mexico too.” (https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/12/palestinians-recognize-texas-part-mexico/)

I'm happy to give back California.

;)

(wuv u, Russ)

[neanderthal]

Lets compare; the Democrats.
Franken. Gone.
Conyers. Gone.
Weinstein (not part of the leadership) Gone.


Republicans.
Trump. Still president.
Moore. Still candidate for Senate seat.
GOP. Still backing Moore.


Don't ever tell me that the political partys are the same. Hear that billi?

[Crazed_Insanity]

2 sides are obviously not the same, but I still believe neither is good enough to lead the nation to a better future.

Liberals are champions of gay rights, but interesting enough that in a secret test, it's patrons in Texas restaurant who'd come to defend gay family being badgered, and people in NY saw and heard no evil.

Liberals are champions of women's rights, but there are no shortage of them groping women.

Liberals believe black lives matter, but black lives are not doing that much better in blue states.

Liberals are not openly white supremacists, but there are no shortage of white males in leadership roles in Silicon Valley or Hollywood supremely ruling over others.

DNC sounds way better in public than GOP for sure, but I really don't see them actually do that much better.

In order to move forward, we can't just turn right or left...

Anyway, I think there's no question that democrats are the lesser evil of the 2, but democrats are also less effective at gaining control... they can't gerrymander their way into power... and they can't fight off sex allegations... might as well just quit and let somebody like Bernie to lead them. Without Hillary, the party is seemingly in disarray.

BTW, I still don't believe Al is guilty. The comedian was obviously just making a poor attempt at having fun in a mock groping photo. BTW Swervo, Leeann's life was not really ruined by that incident, uncomfortable, yes, but not really ruined, right? Comedian Al didn't really abuse his power other than pulling a stupid stunt which made her feel uncomfortable. It is not a sin worthy of resigning his senate seat IMHO.

The left is just being too much of a moral police... and the right is severely lacking morals.

Is it too hard to move somewhere around the middle? WTF is wrong with America?

[drew]

The fucked up thing (among other things):

The Democrats are "taking the high ground", showing that it's unacceptable. Basically, showing their hand. I feel two ways about this: it's legitimate; it's a political stunt.

But, it will backfire, because now the GOP is licking their chops that they can get two more seats.

Moore won't go anywhere. Our only hope is that the backward ass people of Alabama have some moral standard. Because I guarangoddamntee the GOP won't do a fucking thing if he's voted in.

It's beyond repulsive.

[George]

Moore won't go anywhere. Our only hope is that the backward ass people of Alabama have some moral standard. Because I guarangoddamntee the GOP won't do a fucking thing if he's voted in.

Yes, but consider this, which could have been (and probably was) posted in 2016:

Trump won't go anywhere. Our only hope is that the backward ass people of America have some moral standard. Because I guarangoddamntee the GOP won't do a fucking thing if he's voted in.

[neanderthal]

The fucked up thing (among other things):

The Democrats are "taking the high ground", showing that it's unacceptable. Basically, showing their hand. I feel two ways about this: it's legitimate; it's a political stunt.

But, it will backfire, because now the GOP is licking their chops that they can get two more seats.

Moore won't go anywhere. Our only hope is that the backward ass people of Alabama have some moral standard. Because I guarangoddamntee the GOP won't do a fucking thing if he's voted in.

It's beyond repulsive.


Yes, but consider this, which could have been (and probably was) posted in 2016:

Trump won't go anywhere. Our only hope is that the backward ass people of America have some moral standard. Because I guarangoddamntee the GOP won't do a fucking thing if he's voted in.

You're both right.

But in the mid terms next year the Democrats can point to the ouster of Conyers and Franken as keeping order and morality in their house.

The Republicans won't be able to with Moore or/ and Trump. And the Democrats can point to the GOP backing Moore right now as proof of the moral terpitude within the Republican Party. They can point to the tax scam. They can point to statements about "entitlements" and how the GOP is coming after social security and medicare, which we've all paid into our entire working lives, and demonstrate the GOP only wants to fatten the wallets of their donors, not the middle class.

But, will white middle class voters put their interests ahead of their feelings or will they do a billi, and vote to spite everyone, even though this time it includes them.

[neanderthal]

2 sides are obviously not the same, but I still believe neither is good enough to lead the nation to a better future.

Liberals are champions of gay rights, but interesting enough that in a secret test, it's patrons in Texas restaurant who'd come to defend gay family being badgered, and people in NY saw and heard no evil.

Liberals are champions of women's rights, but there are no shortage of them groping women.

Liberals believe black lives matter, but black lives are not doing that much better in blue states.

Liberals are not openly white supremacists, but there are no shortage of white males in leadership roles in Silicon Valley or Hollywood supremely ruling over others.

DNC sounds way better in public than GOP for sure, but I really don't see them actually do that much better.

In order to move forward, we can't just turn right or left...

Anyway, I think there's no question that democrats are the lesser evil of the 2, but democrats are also less effective at gaining control... they can't gerrymander their way into power... and they can't fight off sex allegations... might as well just quit and let somebody like Bernie to lead them. Without Hillary, the party is seemingly in disarray.

BTW, I still don't believe Al is guilty. The comedian was obviously just making a poor attempt at having fun in a mock groping photo. BTW Swervo, Leeann's life was not really ruined by that incident, uncomfortable, yes, but not really ruined, right? Comedian Al didn't really abuse his power other than pulling a stupid stunt which made her feel uncomfortable. It is not a sin worthy of resigning his senate seat IMHO.

The left is just being too much of a moral police... and the right is severely lacking morals.

Is it too hard to move somewhere around the middle? WTF is wrong with America?

So liberals talk of being better but arent? Liberals still have molestors and so on in their midst.

I see you're constantly picking on the liberals yet never seem to say anything about the conservatives, who, by the way, not only have those and worse in their midst but are the ones actively trying to fuck the country over right now with their tax scam.

But yes, bad liberals. That's a shitty hill to die on.

You say liberals are the moral police? Are they trying to dictate who can marry who? Who can fuck who? Backing a pedophile?

Then you try to paint that as bad.

Shitty hill to die on.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Billi votes to punish both the GOP and the DNC. Like drew said, this political stunt will only backfire. Polarized conservative voters won't care about morals... all they see is democrats as evil sexual predators but their candidates are all innocent.

DNC needs to be reformed... or just be scrapped because they just don't know what they're doing.

If you can't beat the likes of Trump and Moore, man, you have to admit you fucking suck! Blaming it on voters like me won't help you win.

Lastly, I'm not picking on conservatives because there's plenty to pick on and you guys got them all covered! For sure GOP will never get my vote. Trumps antiestablishment stance got me initially but that quickly faded even if there's no Bernie.

I'm only mad at democrats because of their fuck ups which end up screwing us all over.

In this case, Sacrificing Al is not going to help gaining back the WH nor congress. If the investigation failed to get Trump, dream on about GOP suddenly become super moral and follow in DNCs footsteps.

[neanderthal]

Billi votes to punish both the GOP and the DNC. Like drew said, this political stunt will only backfire. Polarized conservative voters won't care about morals... all they see is democrats as evil sexual predators but their candidates are all innocent.

DNC needs to be reformed... or just be scrapped because they just don't know what they're doing.

If you can't beat the likes of Trump and Moore, man, you have to admit you fucking suck! Blaming it on voters like me won't help you win.

Lastly, I'm not picking on conservatives because there's plenty to pick on and you guys got them all covered! For sure GOP will never get my vote. Trumps antiestablishment stance got me initially but that quickly faded even if there's no Bernie.

I'm only mad at democrats because of their fuck ups which end up screwing us all over.

In this case, Sacrificing Al is not going to help gaining back the WH nor congress. If the investigation failed to get Trump, dream on about GOP suddenly become super moral and follow in DNCs footsteps.

Yes and all you people mad at the Democrats and voting for Harambe or whoever put Trump in power, so congratulations; you played yourself. Pat yourself on the back.

You think your protest vote helps destroy the Democrats and the Republicans? That's a special kind of stupid. White House. Congress. Senate. GOP got them all because of people like you. And they're stacking the courts with judges who will rule for the rest of their lives, right now. Congratulations. Pat yourself on the back again. You did this. You and your ilk.

Well done. Bravo!! Good job. You showed those democrats with your protest vote. You fucked us all, but by golly you showed them Democrats.

Congratulations.

[Yw-slayer]

He cut off his nose to spite his face?

[dodint]

The hypocrisy of calling out white people for somehow being unique in mindlessly punching a ballot is staggeringly unaware. Wow.

[Tom Servo]

RNC: 'We Warned You Gay Marriage Would Be A Slippery Slope Toward Accepting Pedophilia' (https://politics.theonion.com/rnc-we-warned-you-gay-marriage-would-be-a-slippery-slo-1821095609)

[21Kid]

It's sad that I didn't realize what website that was from until I clicked the link. :smh:

[MR2 Fan]

It's sad that I didn't realize what website that was from until I clicked the link. :smh:

same here

[21Kid]

This is from back in September.


In response to a question from one of the only African Americans in the audience — who asked when Moore thought America was last “great” -- Moore acknowledged the nation’s history of racial divisions, but said:
I think it was great at the time when families were united—even though we had slavery—they cared for one another…Our families were strong, our country had a direction.

So... there was that little slavery thing... but, other than that, it was a GREAT TIME. I'd pretend to act surprised... But, i'm really not. :(
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-alabama-senate-runoff-20170921-story.html

It's sad that Hillary got so much slack (and it may have cost her the win) for calling them deplorables. It's almost like they took that as a challenge.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes and all you people mad at the Democrats and voting for Harambe or whoever put Trump in power, so congratulations; you played yourself. Pat yourself on the back.

You think your protest vote helps destroy the Democrats and the Republicans? That's a special kind of stupid. White House. Congress. Senate. GOP got them all because of people like you. And they're stacking the courts with judges who will rule for the rest of their lives, right now. Congratulations. Pat yourself on the back again. You did this. You and your ilk.

Well done. Bravo!! Good job. You showed those democrats with your protest vote. You fucked us all, but by golly you showed them Democrats.

Congratulations.

No need to congratulate me. Me voting for Hillary also won't help her win either. Why waste my vote to vote for somebody I don't like?

Maybe it's good to give GOP full control. Now when something screws up, let's see them continue to blame Hillary and Obama.... surely angry voters will hopefully give DNC, whose not very good at politics, a chance.

GOP plays on people's emotions... with Jesus Christ, with fear and with anger.

DNC play with reasons and morals. Hey voters. Do the right thing. Vote for the candidate who's less evil!

No question that DNC is the superior side, but it's not hard to see why DNC continues to be political loser amongst human voters.

[Fogelhund]

. Why waste my vote to vote for somebody I don't like?

So you LIKE Trump and Pence and what they stand for then?



Maybe it's good to give GOP full control. .

Sure... it's been good. hahaha

[MR2 Fan]

keep digging billi, you haven't hit rock bottom yet

[Fogelhund]

Roy Moore Says the Last Time America Was Great Was When We Had Slavery

Gong show...

[Crazed_Insanity]

So you LIKE Trump and Pence and what they stand for then?

Sure... it's been good. hahaha

I didn't vote for Trump either. Nor do I believe Pence can make America any greater.

Jill Stein was closest thing to Bernie, so I picked her.

My CA vote won't change anything, so I voted for what I want. Continue to blame me if you want... let's see who can dig to the other side of the earth first. ;)

Rather than having a grid-lock, just let GOP roll for now. DNC's only chance is when voters get angry at the GOP.

Ideally, DNC needs more Bill Clintons and Obamas who can connect with voters on a more emotional level. Appealing to voter's morals is a lost cause.

If people can really always choose to do what's right, we could get rid of the world drug problems, gambling problems, weight problems... we won't even be needing Jesus Christ or any other religions..., but unfortunately, humans are emotional beings. GOP has a stranglehold on voter emotions.

In retrospect, Bernie Sanders isn't very charismatic at all... he just happen to run the right msg at the right time which struck a chord in voters' hearts..., but unfortunately DNC failed to capitalize on that... figured that status quo is better.

[MR2 Fan]

Jill Stein who was also in meetings with the Russians in 2016

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think it's safe to say that even if Jill Stein were an actual Russian spy sent to spoiled the election and tricked Billi into voting for her...

Hillary would still get all of California's electoral votes.

Maybe this 'collusion' worked out for some swing states, but we've always had 3rd party voters. If you look at the differences between last elections 3rd party voters and subtract out the typical 3rd party votes in the past... that difference would not be enough to give Hillary the win. Hillary probably would need all of those 3rd party votes.

Yes, keep on trying to find other people to blame for your lost. All the deplorable voters, the russians, FBI director, etc.

Point is, if you can't come up with a candidate that could beat that dumbass motherfoquen pussy grabbing slurring orangutan with a small penis with significant margin in the 1st place, maybe it's time to find somebody else! But no...., Hillary is next in line. She's it! She was our best hope.

Pathetic.

[neanderthal]

The same Bernie Sanders who just said that his economic message was the same as Trumps, and that he could understand why people were drawn to vote for Trump.

Sure. Try and attract the one voting bloc not voting for the party you're ostensibly allied with (ostensibly because he's demonstrated absolutely shitty allyship) and reject the bloc most consistently voting for the party you're ostensibly allied with. See how that works out for you.

I'm beginning to think he himself was a Russian plant.

Fuck Bernie Sanders.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't know man, either I'm crazy or you're crazy.

Imho, they can't all be Russian related but that's the picture you extreme liberals are trying to paint.

Dude, just find more charismatic candidates like bill Clinton and obama and connect more on an emotional level with voters and quit the lesser of 2 evil game, dnc should do fine.

It does the country no good to imagine the nation is full of deplorable Russian spies.

[neanderthal]

Yeah, well right now the Berners are trying to coerce/ force the Democratic Party into more caucuses than polls/ elections in the primaries, which is dumb as fuck.

Caucuses are paid for by the party and elections by the state. Their big complaint; that they have to be registered Democrats to vote in primary elections. No fucking shit Sherlock. We don't want interlopers coming into our primary and choosing the least likely to win candidate. If it's to much trouble to register as a Democrat then stay the fuck away so called Independent voters with your wishy washy track record of consistently voting for presidents who turn out to be terrible. Trump. Bush II. Reagan. In our lifetimes.

[neanderthal]

I don't know man, either I'm crazy or you're crazy.

Imho, they can't all be Russian related but that's the picture you extreme liberals are trying to paint.

Dude, just find more charismatic candidates like bill Clinton and obama and connect more on an emotional level with voters and quit the lesser of 2 evil game, dnc should do fine.

It does the country no good to imagine the nation is full of deplorable Russian spies.

It's looking more and more like there was a concerted effort to split/ divide the Democratic vote before propping up Trump. So the Russia angle is looking more probable than possible.

[FaultyMario]

The same Bernie Sanders who just said that his economic message was the same as Trumps, and that he could understand why people were drawn to vote for Trump.


What? (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42204697)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey, from that article, just found out about this John Delaney character who has already signed up to run for president in 2020! :D

I kinda like this guy. Seems like a sensible moderate guy who may be able to reach out to both sides..., but then again, if our political polarization continue to worsen, folks on the right may just hate that he's a democrat and folks on the left may hate that he actually still attends church...

I do think Bernie will probably be too old. Plus, I think his message was perfect during the last election, but may no longer be that relevant 4 years later post Trump's messy era...

Anyway, all eyes on this Roy Moore election... I pray that Alabamans will receive enough 'moral values' from Jesus... and after so many heads that rolled because of sexual allegations, the ONE that really needs to roll is Trump's! There may still be some hope..., fingers crossed.

[Tom Servo]

So, I know a lot of democrats, and I'm an atheist myself, and I don't know anyone who would not vote for someone because they go to church. I mean, then we wouldn't have voted for Obama, or for Hillary, as they also both attend church. I'm not sure how often, and I don't really care.

On the other hand, there are people about to vote for an alleged (but in my mind the allegations are pretty well supported) pedophile because they don't want a democrat.

I might be wrong. I may be viewing this from a skewed angle and there aren't people on the right out there that would just never vote for someone on the left, even if that means voting for someone who's trying to bang 14 year olds. Maybe there are people on the left who won't vote for someone because they go to church.

But much like this whole "Merry Christmas" thing, it feels to me like there's this belief amongst the right who immerse themselves in right-wing media (Fox News, Breitbart, Limbaugh, whatever) that we live in a constant, perpetual state of outrage over anybody going to church or saying Merry Christmas. I've had people accuse me of "faux outrage" (which I find that most of those people don't actually understand what "faux" means - they are inferring that I am outraged over something that doesn't deserve outrage, rather than pretending to be outraged for some nefarious agenda), and we know that there are people on the right celebrating Trump claiming to have brought back "Merry Christmas", despite tons of examples of Obama saying that very phrase.

Billi - where do you get this thing that people on the left might hate people who attend church? I can't think of many elected officials of the democratic party that aren't christian. There isn't a single president who hasn't been. Where did that come from? Given polling that says that basically atheists and muslims are duking it out for the two groups least likely to be trusted in an elected position, can you point me to any actual evidence that this is a widespread problem on the left?

[G'day Mate]

There isn't a single president who hasn't been (Christian).

Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln weren't, and in all likelihood a few others were secret athiests

[Tom Servo]

Huh, TIL. Still, I think it's fair to say that both of them were raised Christian and ended up at least falling under the "believing in (a) god, if not organized religion" camp my wife falls under. Nonetheless, I stand corrected.

EDIT: also, I might add that one of those two got assassinated. Just sayin'.

[Yw-slayer]

I think most people on the left don't give a shit whether people go to church or not. After all, surely that's the point of being a Liberal. Just don't ram shit down their throats.

[Tom Servo]

That's certainly my take. I'm curious as to what made Billi think that that's a point of contention.

[G'day Mate]

Huh, TIL. Still, I think it's fair to say that both of them were raised Christian and ended up at least falling under the "believing in (a) god, if not organized religion" camp my wife falls under. Nonetheless, I stand corrected.

EDIT: also, I might add that one of those two got assassinated. Just sayin'.

I don't know much about them, only that I remember hearing Christopher Hitchens use them as examples. I wonder if I can dig it up ...

[tigeraid]

A large portion of the founding fathers were deists. Deism in general was pretty popular in America's early history--a general belief in some sort of "God" who created everything, but is unknowable and uncaring about anything humans do. Basically they shunned organized religion, Catholicism mostly. Jefferson in particular wrote extensively about following the teachings of Jesus, and ONLY Jesus, and discarding all the other dogmatic crap and churchgoing.

I don't know about Lincoln's faith, but that would interesting to hear about.

I think a better argument to make is that, since scientific rationality began to strongly QUESTION religion, politicians have had to identify as Christian to get anywhere in public office, because old, religious, fear-mongering white people are the biggest voting majority.

[Tom Servo]

Unsurprisingly, there's a wiki devoted to that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Abraham_Lincoln



The religious views of Abraham Lincoln are a matter of interest among scholars and the public. Lincoln grew up in a highly religious Baptist family. He never joined any Church, and was a skeptic as a young man and sometimes ridiculed revivalists. He frequently referred to God and had a deep knowledge of the Bible, often quoting it. Lincoln attended Protestant church services with his wife and children, and after two of them died he became more intensely concerned with religion.[1]
Although Lincoln never made an unambiguous public profession of Christian belief, several people who knew him personally, such as Chaplain of the Senate Phineas Gurley and Mary Todd Lincoln, claimed that he believed in Christ in the religious sense.[2][3][4] However, close friends who had known Lincoln for years, such as Ward Hill Lamon and William Herndon, rejected the idea that he was a believing Christian.[5] During his 1846 run for the House of Representatives, in order to dispel accusations concerning his religious beliefs, Lincoln issued a handbill stating that he had "never denied the truth of the Scriptures".[6] He seemed to believe in an all-powerful God, who shaped events and, by 1865, was expressing those beliefs in major speeches.[7]

[dodint]

I'm a deist, have been since high school, so about 15 years now.

It's as far as science can take us and I'm not ruling out the existence of a possible god just for the sake of it. Basically, *something* created the matter for the Big Bang, everything else just happened without divine intervention.

To me.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's certainly my take. I'm curious as to what made Billi think that that's a point of contention.

I guess I can only speak for myself. Prior to my assimilation to the Christ-collective, I freaking hated Christians. Surely there's a difference between Bill Clinton Christian and the George W Bush Christian, right? While I was a Buddhist, I really look down upon Christians... I meant the taking Jesus Christ super seriously kinda Christians. Not the Bill Clinton types who probably simply uses church for social needs. Post W winning the WH, I ended up hating Christians more and more... particularly the conservative born again types like W.

Funny enough, I became somebody who takes Christ seriously in 2003. Then I don't hate Bush as much, but I still didn't want to vote for him. He is just the wrong man for the job. But would Gore and Kerry do better? Only Lord knows.

Anyway, given that the nation is becoming more secular, particularly on the left, would you guys really want to vote for somebody who takes Jesus Christ and the Bible seriously? That's what I meant by 'church going'. Considering he (Delaney) has so many kids, my guess is that he's a pretty devout Catholic. Now, this may not bold well for him on the right either... because some conservative Christians are afraid of WH falling under the Pope's rule with Italian collusion... ;)

Anyway, if the candidate can really connect emotionally with the voters, then surely personal faith probably won't be much of an issue, but if there's not much connections made, surely religious faith or lack of thereof can be used as a reason to NOT vote for somebody.

All being equal, I'd definitely give a serious Christian candidate my vote, but faith won't be used as a litmus test for me. However, I'm not sure average voters in the US are really like me. You guys don't really think the line between conservative and christian has become blurred in the US? Lots of you still believe a Christian like me must really love Trump... and people on the right still insist leftist like Obama is a Muslim. These warped mentalities due to political polarization will probably be difficult to change.

[Tom Servo]

I think it comes down to a difference between a fundamentalist of any sort and someone who believes, even devoutly. I like the pope, I think overall he's pretty good, though he still has some misguided opinions on homosexuals, for instance. My brother-in-law's sister is a minister, and I think she's an amazing person and appears to run a fantastic church. I don't hate anyone for their beliefs, I dislike when people try to force their beliefs on others.

I obviously see a difference between the Bill Clinton Christian and the George W. Bush Christian. However, it's not something I particularly care about or consider one to be better or worse than another. I don't like it when George W. uses his Christianity as a way to claim that he's better than others.

I obviously don't know the guy, but I have no reason to believe that Obama didn't take Jesus Christ and the Bible seriously. My in-laws are catholic (though they have become less involved with the church when they grew increasingly disgusted by various child molestation scandals), my wife is ostensibly catholic, though, like I said, she's become more "believes in god, but not organized religion". She believes there's a god. I don't. We respect each other's feelings about that, I have never thought less of her because she holds different beliefs on that, and neither of us have ever tried to change each other's mind on that, though we have discussed how we feel about it and why we believe the way we do.

Finally, when it comes down to whether people associate Christianity and conservatives as a single thing, I'd say it's more nuanced than that. I think there are people who use their religion as a cudgel. "I am more moral than you because I go to church more." There are people who, in my belief, take the wrong lessons from the church. These are the same people who not only ignore the idea that only god can judge you, but actively consider themselves the ultimate judge. I won't vote for those people because I think they're bad people. It has nothing to do with their Christian faith, it has to do with what kind of person they are. I also wouldn't vote for a militant atheist that insists that anyone who believes in a god is a lesser person.

I, like anyone, am mostly surrounded by like minded people. That said, it's certainly not my experience that I'm unusual in this mindset. Almost everyone I know is Christian to some extent, from the "I believe in a god but not religion" to a minister, and very few of them love Trump.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The problem with Christianity... or Jesus Christ is that he is not going to "peacefully" coexist with you. He's willing to sacrifice himself or whatever it takes in order to win you over!

For 'serious' Christians, they want to follow in Christ's command to convert folks. Asking them to resist that command and respect folks of other religions is futile.

Thing is that Christ's conversion tactic should never be that heavy handed. He'd never shove anything down anybody's throat. My own conversion wasn't like that at least...

Anyway, United States of America was founded by folks who were heavily influenced by Jesus Christ and the Bible. It almost doesn't matter whether if Lincoln was a believer or not... The entire western world was heavily influenced by Christianity.

Compared to the rest of the world, has Jesus and the Bible really been such a bad influence overall?
(Remember, wars, aggression, slavery, homophobia... they all exist in non-christian worlds too. God didn't invent those things.)

It'd be great if people can vote across faith lines... and party lines... and whatever other polarizing lines and be able to pick out the best candidate for the job... and not just the lesser of the 2 evils. I suppose when it comes to picking the lesser evil... we end up relying on these 'lines' to pick somebody closer to where we stand...

Obviously Hillary is closer to you and Trump is closer to them so Americans voted accordingly.

But fuck... quit feeding us these lousy options. We need somebody who can really help the country work together!

[George]

So, I know a lot of democrats

Me too. I hang out here. :lol:

[Tom Servo]

Me too. I hang out here. :lol:

This is how we know that biking corrupts people. Right here ^^^

[Tom Servo]

Sorry to quote the ignored one, but:



It'd be great if people can vote across faith lines


My point is that many people do. I almost always do, as there aren't a lot of atheists running, but I still believe that I'd vote for a person that I think is better suited for the job rather than their religious beliefs. I hope that you gather that whoever fed you a line about leftists not voting for church goers was feeding you propaganda to get you to go a certain way. Most leftists I know are Christian. Not all of them regularly attend church, but all of them believe in the Christian God, at least in some shape or form. Hell, I can count the number of atheists that I know on one...well...maybe two hands, but that's less than 10 of hundreds of people that I know. That idea that leftists won't vote for someone because they're church-going or Christian is based in absolutely nothing. I have never met or talked to a single person who has ever said that they wouldn't vote for someone because they go to a Christian church.

EDIT: In fairness, I just caught myself thinking "If a Scientologist ran, fuck that person". So I guess to an extent there is a litmus test there. On the other hand, one could say that's not specifically religion based. If someone works for IBM, I'd think of them differently than if they hawked Herbalife. If someone was part of a bird watching group, I'd think of them differently than if they were part of the flat earth society. So, take of that what you will.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, nobody fed me anything. If there must be a somebody, then it was me feeding it to myself... because I remembered the days when I really dislike Christians who take the bible too seriously. W was also the 1st guy to confirm my suspicion of hypocritical Christians... that I should vote for the least Christian dude on the ballot. Dreamed of hoping that one day America can grow out of her lame and backwards christian roots...

But God changed my view.

I'm glad God didn't have to do anything for you to alter your political view! ;)

You were raised in a Christian environment, so perhaps it's easier for you to not dislike christians I suppose. That just wasn't the case for me.

I suppose even now, if a candidate is a hardcore christian fundamentalist, I'd still not vote for him. I can certainly agree with the dude's pro-eternal-life stance, but bible is also pretty clear about allowing people to choose whether or not to accept Jesus. Pro-life and pro-choice go hand in hand, not against each other. Unfortunately in our current political climate, we can only pick one side to stand with and wish the other side to goto hell.

[George]

This is how we know that biking corrupts people. Right here ^^^

Yup. Now I just need a Prius and some Birkenstocks.

But I was a musician and hung out with a bunch of dope-smoking jam-band hippies for a long time. Democrats are a hell of a lot more fun to be around, and I'm glad I live in a place where people let other people be who they are - at least a lot of people. I don't feel the "compartmentalization" here in the west that exists in the south.

I lived most of my life in the south. There it's common for people to ask "where do you go to church?" in casual conversation, and as part of introductions. That is asked by some folks when you move into a house in a new neighborhood, for example. It was often asked in business, too. I was in outside business-to-business sales and I was frequently asked that as prospects and customers sized me up for the first time. One learns to be prepared for the question and have a good answer ready. "Um, well...I...uh..." is not an acceptable answer to those who would ask such a question.

I think some oters definitely vote along religious lines. They always have and always will. I'm also thinking Roy Moore has this election sewn up, unless the Democrats really "get out the vote" and women vote against him en masse for obvious reasons.

To paraphrase a humorous prayer I read somewhere: "Lord, protect me from your followers."

[Tom Servo]

You were raised in a Christian environment, so perhaps it's easier for you to not dislike christians I suppose. That just wasn't the case for me.


Preschools were pretty limited in Clairemont, so when I was four I went to a preschool at a nearby Presbyterian church. I don't remember much outside of being read stories while I took a nap on a cot (awesome) and having to stand in a circle in a dark room with some candles (fucking creepy).

A lot of my neighbors were Christian. The Dowings three doors down across the street often babysat me and they were Baptist. The Norths who lived two doors down were Fundamentalist Lutherans from Tyler, Texas, and I often got into the most vigorous religious debates one can get into with someone else when you're both around 5 years old. "If you don't believe in God, where do you think the Earth came from?" "Where do you believe God came from?!?" *slap slap slap*. (As a particularly self-serving aside, they disowned their eldest daughter when she started dating a black man and their only son spent a few years in the pokey for drug dealing, though as far as I know their youngest daughter, the one I would get into debates with, is still the apple of their eye).

I have gone to church a few times after being invited by friends. Joey Salvati invited me to go to church, telling me that all you do there is draw things on the chalkboard. I went to his church and did exactly that. In return, I taught him to ride a bike. I also went with the Norths one time to their Lutheran church. It was insanely boring. One of my first girlfriends was very Christian. I liked her a lot, but she wasn't particularly okay with me not believing, so she dumped me.

I've been to some church weddings, including three Catholic ones, two of which I was part of the ceremony. I've never stood up and knelt down so many times in my life. I'm a godfather to my cousin's daughter, though I have to admit I'd be pretty shitty at showing her the ways of Jesus if something should happen to her parents. That said, the Catholic church which bestowed upon me that title said it's fine that I'm not a Catholic, as long as my wife is, and I was there to help with my cousin's daughter's baptism.

I went to a Norwegian camp as a kid (I know, it's weird). We would go to the local Methodist church and sing for them, mostly in Norwegian ("Ja, vi elsker dette landet") and attend the sermon every year. I was a counselor the last few years, so I had to really be into it to encourage the kids to be into it as well.

I was in AP Literature in my senior year of high school, and as part of that we read the Bible.

That would be the extent of me being raised in a Christian environment. My parents have been atheists since I was born, as is my sister. I've just been raised to know that we all have different beliefs. I was raised to know that many people find comfort in their beliefs, or find that it helps them live the life they want to live. I was raised to know that I might not be right, but to try to seek out the truth the best way I know how, like I would expect others to do.

I do not believe that I am in a minority in that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, I hope majority of the folks are like you, that it's only the minority of the folks who wish to remove religious statues around court houses, wipe off the cross on LA county flags and find saying merry christmas offensive...

Of course I also don't completely blame those minority of folks because they were most likely bullied by the christian fundies sometime in their lives..., who knows, maybe they were also sexually abused too!

But that's all really due to the dark side of human nature, not really Jesus' fault...

Anyway, I suppose it's possible that the kind of "theological polarization" doesn't really exist. Perhaps it's all the fanatic religious folks going crazier and crazier... while the atheists aren't really moving much! ;)

But we can't deny existence of political polarization, right? However this political line is drawn, we are driven further and further apart.

I do believe that even Mother Nature is sick of that... and therefore flooding blue water on red states and burning red fire in blue states to send us a message.

We should regularly be voting across party lines during elections... depending on who is the better person for the job. Unfortunately, dreaming for that day to come is as wishing for some fairy tale of biblical proportion.

[Tom Servo]

I agree there's political polarization, and I wish I knew how to fix it.

The problem is, part of it comes from people making blanket (and frankly ridiculous) statements like "folks on the left may hate that he actually still attends church". That only exacerbates the problem. I have *NEVER* heard a single person say they wouldn't vote for someone because they attend church, yet now that's been stated as a commonplace thing. It's creating a division where there wasn't one before. I do think there are people voting for Roy Moore who are horrified about who he is but are swallowing that because they think it's worse to vote for a democrat. I don't think all conservatives feel that way. I think most probably don't feel that way. But we've got statements like that floating around that make it really hard to have an honest debate, and I'm really tired of that.

[MR2 Fan]

I think there needs to be a much better separation of what is "news" and what is "news-based (and I use the term news here EXTREMELY loosely) commentary" and i also wish they weren't owned by big corporations.

A lot of the issues with polarization is because we have powerful forces trying to push false narratives for the past few decades, and causing people to basically become brainwashed because of it.

[Jason]

If I voted purely based on faith, I'd have no candidates to vote for in almost any election. So yeah, those on the left have no problem ignoring the religion of a candidate, as long as the policy is there.

The same can't be said for the right, though, imo.

[MR2 Fan]

I'm noticing a trend for the right-wingers as of late....they quite often play the school-yard "I know you are, but what am I" card. Every time someone states something factual against a right-wing politician, it's "Obama/Clinton/Schumer/Pelosi/insert dem name did _____" and it's usually not true. Instead of facing the idea that the person they are supporting did something wrong and COMPLETELY ignoring the idea that the person coming out with it could be someone who doesn't even support Obama/Clinton/Schumer/Pelosi/insert dem name.

That's the sick part is that they're SO CAUGHT UP in partisanship they can't even see past the idea that just saying the other side is just as bad only works if the person they're talking to is a die-hard Obama/Clinton/Schumer/Pelosi/insert dem name nut the same way they are for their politician.

[Jason]

I hate it when politicians do that shit, even when the left does it.

If you fuck up, own it. The whole "but officer, they were speeding too" thing is tiresome.

[G'day Mate]

NY times is currently predicting a close victory to whoever the other guy is in Alabama

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, own it is a good start.

How did democrats lose control?

In order to regain control, DNC has to admit where/how they screw up and do better... rather than blaming GOP, deplorable voters, Billi, Russians, etc.

If DNC can combine moral reasoning along with emotional inspirations, surely the crazy GOP will be no match for that.

This Alabama race will be an indicator of which way the nation is heading..., hope those voters have more moral sense, but wouldn't be surprised to see another GOP win... sigh...

[G'day Mate]

I'm a deist, have been since high school, so about 15 years now.

It's as far as science can take us and I'm not ruling out the existence of a possible god just for the sake of it. Basically, *something* created the matter for the Big Bang, everything else just happened without divine intervention.

To me.

I'd say that sounds a bit like the "God of the Gaps"

[Tom Servo]

Is there any part of this that you plan to own? Like, claiming that leftists won't vote for people who attend church?

[G'day Mate]

Looks like decency has prevailed in Alabama :up:

Can't wait for Trump's reaction :D