Politics

[Tom Servo]

I have a friend who refers to Sanders as "Magic Grandpa" given the sheer amount of faith his believers seem to have in him. Seems apropos.

BTW, I've said this before and I'll say it again - up until the election, Sanders was an independent. He just chose to run as a democrat and therefore abide by the process the democratic party goes through to pick its nominee. He could have run as an independent, and if he was anywhere near as popular as people claim, that would have been the smart move.

[Crazed_Insanity]

He also falsely believed nobody could win as 3rd party candidate.

Still, had he done it and end up losing to Trump, Neanderthal would probably kill him!

I really think he could've stolen a lot of angry white votes.

I still believe Sanders was robbed in the primary.

Liberals here in this forum for sure would pick him in a primary, however, in general elections liberals would probably still go for Hillary because they'd fear a trump win..., but combine with some angry white antiestablishment vote, 3rd party sander could still conceivably win. But guess we'll never know.

[21Kid]

I have a friend who refers to Sanders as "Magic Grandpa" given the sheer amount of faith his believers seem to have in him. Seems apropos.

BTW, I've said this before and I'll say it again - up until the election, Sanders was an independent. He just chose to run as a democrat and therefore abide by the process the democratic party goes through to pick its nominee. He could have run as an independent, and if he was anywhere near as popular as people claim, that would have been the smart move.
Agreed. I would have preferred that he'd have stayed an independent. Too bad out crappy "one vote" system would probably have split the votes between him and Hillary, because people would be afraid he'd lose and not vote the way they actually want to.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Everyone has one vote is a problem? Are there other systems that allow multiple votes/person? Am I missing something?

Anyway, It is true that we need a system that encourages us to vote for who we want and not just vote for the opposite of somebody we hate.

[Jason]

Unsurprised that the Democrats blinked first. But hey, an open government.

[novicius]

Hearts & minds. #shrug

[dodint]

Sorry to disappoint you George, but it turns out the vast majority of my organization is exempt from furlough. I'm safe for now, the money could still run out if they don't keep extending the budget, but the coffers for my particular skill are a bit more full than other agencies.

[neanderthal]

Unsurprised that the Democrats blinked first. But hey, an open government.

Completely.
On the other hand, CHIP is off the table so Feb 10 we will see what the Republicans try to dangle as a way to compromise. I am really really hoping that's where the Democrats stand firm on DACA, 100% united, 100% unwavering. That's not going to happen though. Spineless cunts.

It's a "bad win" in my opinion. There was no effort to work with the Democratic majority by the GOP during Obama's presidency (those two years! ACA passed because Repugnicans couldn't stop it.) and I had really hoped there'd be no quarter given by the Democrats. Especially given Merrick Garland.

On the other hand you and others keep a steady income.

[novicius]

Major win for Stephen Miller too.

[MR2 Fan]

Thought of the day:

If a tree falls in a forest and Trump doesn't blame someone else for it on twitter, is it fake news?

[neanderthal]

So, now, now is when Bernie Sanders has decided to hold a roundtable/ townhall on medicare or all. Now.

This is why I say he is tone deaf.

There's 800000 people whose status is in limbo, but instead of addressing that, he's chosen now to lecture us on healthcare. Here's a hint Bernie;Trump won't sign it.

If he decided to hold his townhall and talk about Puerto Rico i'd be cheering. DACA. I'd be cheering. Fucking healthcare? I'm a big fan of universal healthcare, huge fan, yoooge in fact, but, ... seriously, we have bigger problems right now.

[Jason]

At the same time, the only way for the public mindshare to eventually demand it, is if someone like Sanders continues to talk about it. He doesn't have much standing on the other topics, let others discuss them.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-mia3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26903755_1555947124486070_7991692956743916055_n.jp g?oh=2d009f55dd523f55882113c9183e51e2&oe=5B264065

[21Kid]

So, now, now is when Bernie Sanders has decided to hold a roundtable/ townhall on medicare or all. Now.

This is why I say he is tone deaf.

There's 800000 people whose status is in limbo, but instead of addressing that, he's chosen now to lecture us on healthcare. Here's a hint Bernie;Trump won't sign it.

If he decided to hold his townhall and talk about Puerto Rico i'd be cheering. DACA. I'd be cheering. Fucking healthcare? I'm a big fan of universal healthcare, huge fan, yoooge in fact, but, ... seriously, we have bigger problems right now. :erm: Sure, this is his first online town hall. But, he's been talking about it since at least the 90s.
Of course Trump won't sign it. But, things don't happen by the President making it so. It happens by changing public opinion and slowly moving in the right direction.

He has also been talking about PR more than most other senators, and even presented a plan to help them.

[Crazed_Insanity]

... seriously, we have bigger problems right now.

Seriously, we have bigger politicians to fry than Bernie Sanders.

I'd agree with you that the guy is probably tone deaf to other folks. The dude continues on preaching on the same message of narrowing the gap between rich and poor since the very beginning of his career. The problem is probably gazillion times worse now... and he's still at it.

Most non-tone deaf folks probably would've given up by now... by either the sound of money or of hopelessness...

The dude has integrity. That's why the Bernie-or-busters love him.

Conservative politicians hide their BS behind Jesus Christ. As if pretending to be a Godly Christian man make you well suited for the job.
Liberal politicians hide their BS behind political correctness. As if pretending to supporting gay, minority, illegal immigrant rights or whatever cool at the moment make you well suited for the job.

Don't get me wrong, Liberals are still by far way better than Conservatives. Obama is way better than W and probably most other republican presidents! However, even Obama has integrity issues. From the beginning as a Jr Senator who claimed that he's not going to run for president... to the eventual record holder of withholding FOIA requests and surveillance crap. So I don't fully trust what Obama would do behind closed doors... and I trust Hillary even less... naturally I trust Trump the least. That's why I voted for neither.

You can settle for the lesser of 2 evil to try to avoid Trump. That's fine. It's your vote.

I'd continue my tone deaf kinda vote.

Seriously, 800,000 people whose status is in limbo is a more important issue than the health of hundreds of million of Americans? Must we fight so hard for dreamers to the extent of shutting down government? I'm glad the democratic senators blinked 1st rather than continue to hold the nation hostage like that.

I'm sick of these ideological fights.

Bernie Sanders don't play that. He's more focused on actually solving fucking problems for average Americans.

I do hope dreamers can eventually become Americans too rather than be deported. However, I also have no problems putting Americans 1st. We have to set our priorities straight.

I gotta feed my family 1st before I feed the poor.

[novicius]

New Report Says Dutch Have Absolute Proof Russia Was Behind 2016 Election Hacking (https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/01/new-report-says-dutch-have-absolute-proof-russia-was-behind-2016-election-hacking/)

Original Dutch article (https://www.volkskrant.nl/tech/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913).


The Dutch hacked into the security system and network of a known hacker group in Russia.

They had full access to the security cameras of the facility, as well as the computer activities of those inside. The cameras showed Russian government intelligence officials regularly visiting the facility. From the computer activity they monitored, the Dutch were able to predict attacks, and in some cases warn us about them ahead of time.

One of the attacks the Dutch witnessed was the Russian government operation to hack into the Democratic Party computer systems and compromise their data.

This was a Russian government operation. There is proof. Fucking video proof. And Donald Trump was the benefactor.
:popcorn:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why is this absolute proof only surfacing now?

[FaultyMario]

Because they have obviously something to gain, duh!

Never played the MacVentures?

[Tom Servo]

Andrew McCabe has reportedly resigned as deputy director of the FBI. Earlier than expected, as he said he planned to retire in the spring. Not sure what it means, but it does free him up to be a witness in any obstruction of justice hearing.

[novicius]

Huh.

Well this seems appropriately political:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUC2EQvdzmY

:cool:

[novicius]

The Plot Against America (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/paul-manafort-american-hustler/550925/)


His acts of rebellion were not merely aesthetic. Manafort rewrote the rules of his adopted city.

In the early ’80s, he created a consulting firm that ignored the conventions that had previously governed lobbying. When it came to taking on new clients, he was uninhibited by moral limits. In 2016, his friends might not have known the specifics of his Cyprus accounts, all the alleged off-the-books payments to him captured in Cyrillic ledgers in Kiev.

But they knew enough to believe that he could never sustain the exposure that comes with running a presidential campaign in the age of opposition research and aggressive media. “The risks couldn’t have been more obvious,” one friend who attempted to dissuade him from the job told me. But in his frayed state, these warnings failed to register.
Engrossing read. Too bad since I highly doubt anything will come of the Russia investigation.

[Fogelhund]

http://www.businessinsider.com/joe-kennedy-will-deliver-the-democratic-response-to-trumps-state-of-the-union-2018-1


Rep. Joe Kennedy, a 37-year-old Massachusetts Democrat and a scion of the Kennedy political dynasty, will deliver the Democratic Party's response to President Donald Trump's State of the Union address on Tuesday night.

Many top Democrats hailed Kennedy's selection as a sign that the party is looking to bring fresh faces to the forefront of national politics.

"Joe Kennedy is the future," President Barack Obama's former speechwriter and foreign policy adviser, Ben Rhodes, tweeted last week. "Glad to see the Democrats embracing that."

OR

But critics, from the left and right, say Kennedy — the grandson of Robert F. Kennedy and grand-nephew of President John F. Kennedy and Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, who has inherited millions from his family — is instead representative of a Democratic Party of the past and is a member of the country's most elite.

"What's going to change the downward spiral of the Democratic Party is a rich nepotistic prince with inherited wealth of $15 million who is vehemently against marijuana legalization & pro-surveillance. Just what they need," liberal journalist Glenn Greenwald tweeted.

A Republican PAC, America Rising, called Kennedy a "rich, boring Pelosi ally" in response to news of his selection.

[novicius]

Some Tea Party 'Murican could make waves if they were pro-Medicare for all, pro-Social Security, pro-guns and sourced donations capped at $25 USD per person/entity.

Split both parties. :popcorn:

[dodint]

:lol:

"We have a fresh face for you."

*door number 3 slides open*

"A Kennedy!"

*sad trombone sound*

[novicius]

Well said! :lol: :up:

[George]

2020 Democratic Ticket: Kennedy/Clinton :lol:

[MR2 Fan]

IMO the response part isn't very important in the grand scheme of things.

[The359]

They are hoping to catch lightning again, because didn't Obama offer a response to Bush way back when?

[dodint]

He was the keynote speaker at the 2004 DNC which was introduction as a national figure.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think it's clear that America needs a 3rd party if this is the best DNC could offer.

I personally have no issues with Kennedy name... or even Bill Clinton himself. (Other than them being womanizers)

My main beef with Hillary is that she just seemed too eager to occupy the White House, yet, I'm still not really sure what she really stands for...

If this 37 year old can really prove himself worthy over the years, I have no problems throwing my support behind a Kennedy.

Otherwise, I hope the independents seek the opportunity to form a formidable 3rd party now..., as the 2 major parties fumble.

[sandydandy]

Regarding the State of the UnioM speech...I have two words: not impressed.

Trump is a great salesman and said all the right things, (even though some of which was followed up by contradictory backhanded remarks). But today is what’s important, and tomorrow, and the day after that. We know he’ll revert back to Twat in Chief very soon, so a flowery speech means nothing.

[MR2 Fan]

I think it's clear that America needs a 3rd party if this is the best DNC could offer.

I personally have no issues with Kennedy name... or even Bill Clinton himself. (Other than them being womanizers)

My main beef with Hillary is that she just seemed too eager to occupy the White House, yet, I'm still not really sure what she really stands for...

If this 37 year old can really prove himself worthy over the years, I have no problems throwing my support behind a Kennedy.

Otherwise, I hope the independents seek the opportunity to form a formidable 3rd party now..., as the 2 major parties fumble.

Bull Moose 2020

[novicius]

...and you quote Billi why? :rolleyes:

[George]

Split both parties. :popcorn:


Bull Moose 2020

:sing: Mister, we could use a man like Roosevelt again...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/TR-Chemist-1912.JPG

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bull Moose 2020

Assuming Sanders the old geezer doesn't die during the next prez election cycle, I'm willing to bet that he will become the 1st ever 3rd party prez, beating Teddy Roosevelt's record!

Of course that's also assuming the old geezer's brave enough to go for it alone... rather than relying on DNC to hand him the nomination. I don't think DNC has learned any lessons... so I hope Sanders have wised up...

[Jason]

Both Republican and Democratic presidents always give lip service to infrastructure investment, yet Congress never spends the money. Really frustrating.

[MR2 Fan]

Both Republican and Democratic presidents always give lip service to infrastructure investment, yet Congress never spends the money. Really frustrating.

I guess the infrastructure lobby isn't rich enough

[Tom Servo]

Hell, as it is I understand the infrastructure plan coming down the pike claims it's $1.5 trillion, but it's actually $200 billion from the feds, which is significantly down from normal, it just encourages states and cities, often via public-private partnerships/investments, to put more of their own money into it.

[FaultyMario]

Looking up from a banana republic ruled by colonial-minded minions, it baffles me why the U.S. can't have nice things.

We Mexicans can't have them cause institutional design and procedure fosters corruption and massive cost overruns. But you guys? It looks like political vendettas have got the best of your roads.

[George]

...Congress never spends the money. Really frustrating.

Discussion follows. Not argument. I just thought I'd get on my soapbox for a minute here.

I'm with you guys on the social problems and inequality in this country (and I wasn't always), but I cannot support new spending, or even current spending. No way.

Congress should...no, must balance the budget before spending more money.

I realize I'm in the minority on this, at this forum and certainly in the "gimme-gimme" real world where everyone, rich and poor alike, wants "free" money from the government, but I say we need to cut spending and raise taxes until all debts are paid, and then maintain a balanced budget. A Constitutional amendment requiring one would be good, and yes, I realize how difficult those are to get passed.

Then, let's build us some badass roads and bridges. Hell, we could even see if we can make it so families who work and pay huge medical insurance premiums can afford to go to the doctor once in a while. That would be nice. Maybe municipal ISPs as are currently the rage where I live. I've come to realize the government can and does provide good services. But let's get our financial house in order before it's too late.

For now, and for some number of years ahead, austerity is the obvious solution.

NOBODY in politics that I know of is saying this. They all want to feed their own special interest groups while raising the debt ceiling. That's bullshit. The debt ceiling should be zero.

But what else should we expect in a country where the average family has [insert some huge number] of unsecured debt? That's just normal, right?

Yeah. Until the repo man shows up wid his boys. We, as a country, have been hiding from him for too many decades and people think it can continue indefinitely. It can't.

Tighten your belt, Congress. Run this country like your constituents run their households...at least the ones who have the brains to keep a balanced budget. Do without once in a while. It's not that bad.



Posted while I was typing:


it baffles me why the U.S. can't have nice things.

Yes! Me too. I think that's my point here. We're like that well-employed family down the street that makes fat salaries but is always in financial trouble because they have high-dollar cars, boats, country club memberships, private schools, lavish vacations, and all of it "paid" for with credit cards and loans.

[Crazed_Insanity]

George, debt isn't always that evil. If it's investment that has a good chance of paying off, then raise the debt ceiling I say!

It really all depends on what you're borrowing money for. It doesn't make sense to borrow money to buy stuffs that depreciate with time, however, buying a house or business with borrowed money isn't quite the same because not only is it possible to increase in value over time, but it's also possible for them to generate income!

Infrastructure could be paving the way as investment..., however it is possible for stupid politicians to simply waste the money building bridges to nowhere too...

Anyway, point is as long as there's a good chance to get some returns in the future, I don't mind having no debt ceiling.

Adjusting the debt ceiling isn't the issue for me, but wasting taxpayers' money for stupid wars is.

[Jason]

I'm actually a huge fan of cutting spending overall, but that doesn't mean cutting services. I'm a firm believer that a lot of our bloat comes from multiple levels of for-profit businesses sticking their hands in the pot. Hard to cut the fat, though, when the ones who'd write the new rules would end up "hurting" due to them.

As far as being "gimme gimme", I suppose I qualify. I think we have enough wealth and resources in this country to feed, house, educate, and provide healthcare to everyone at a basic level. I think improving the base level of quality of life is more important than increasing the wealth of the absolute richest though, and I understand that makes me unamerican.

[neanderthal]

At the same time, the only way for the public mindshare to eventually demand it, is if someone like Sanders continues to talk about it. He doesn't have much standing on the other topics, let others discuss them.


:erm: Sure, this is his first online town hall. But, he's been talking about it since at least the 90s.
Of course Trump won't sign it. But, things don't happen by the President making it so. It happens by changing public opinion and slowly moving in the right direction.

He has also been talking about PR more than most other senators, and even presented a plan to help them.

You're right.

[neanderthal]

Seriously, we have bigger politicians to fry than Bernie Sanders.

I'd agree with you that the guy is probably tone deaf to other folks. The dude continues on preaching on the same message of narrowing the gap between rich and poor since the very beginning of his career. The problem is probably gazillion times worse now... and he's still at it.

Most non-tone deaf folks probably would've given up by now... by either the sound of money or of hopelessness...

The dude has integrity. That's why the Bernie-or-busters love him.

Conservative politicians hide their BS behind Jesus Christ. As if pretending to be a Godly Christian man make you well suited for the job.
Liberal politicians hide their BS behind political correctness. As if pretending to supporting gay, minority, illegal immigrant rights or whatever cool at the moment make you well suited for the job.

Don't get me wrong, Liberals are still by far way better than Conservatives. Obama is way better than W and probably most other republican presidents! However, even Obama has integrity issues. From the beginning as a Jr Senator who claimed that he's not going to run for president... to the eventual record holder of withholding FOIA requests and surveillance crap. So I don't fully trust what Obama would do behind closed doors... and I trust Hillary even less... naturally I trust Trump the least. That's why I voted for neither.

You can settle for the lesser of 2 evil to try to avoid Trump. That's fine. It's your vote.

I'd continue my tone deaf kinda vote.

Seriously, 800,000 people whose status is in limbo is a more important issue than the health of hundreds of million of Americans? Must we fight so hard for dreamers to the extent of shutting down government? I'm glad the democratic senators blinked 1st rather than continue to hold the nation hostage like that.

I'm sick of these ideological fights.

Bernie Sanders don't play that. He's more focused on actually solving fucking problems for average Americans.

I do hope dreamers can eventually become Americans too rather than be deported. However, I also have no problems putting Americans 1st. We have to set our priorities straight.

I gotta feed my family 1st before I feed the poor.


Man. You drank all the Kool Aid didn't you. You distilled it to it's purest essence then snorted that shit or mainlined it, or ingested it somehow. You've convinced yourself that he is some sort of saviour to American politics.

Well, let me disabuse you slightly of that notion.

Bernie Sanders is everything he accused Hillary Clinton of being. He's a warmongering corporate shill. He voted for regime change in Iraq and Libya. Voted to expand the war in Afghanistan. Voted to use force in Kosovo. Voted for the very crime bill he accused Hillary of being racist over. Voted to protect the NRA and fun manufactures, but voted against immigration reform, the Amber alert, and harsher punishments for sexual offenders. He voted for the Commodity Futures Modernisation Act which directly led to the financial collapse in 2008. He's been in public office for over 30 years and he has never passed a bill to protect womens, workers, LBGQT, minorities, college students or voters rights.

He never had a steady payroll check, and was on welfare, for most of his adult life, until his first job, in government. He didn't release his taxes like Hillary Clinton did.
He committed to fund raise for the DNC and the down ballot candidates (both he and Mrs Clinton agreed to the same terms) and then didn't do any fundraising or campaigning, while Hillary did.

I'll just let you read this article (http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044) rather than continuing my long rant.

I'll conclude by posting this.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DV7yx2y3TtY" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Tom Servo]

That was a neat bug. I edited this post and it created a new post instead, and since we still can't delete posts, now you get this nonsense.

[Tom Servo]

Reposting vid to help neanderthal out:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV7yx2y3TtY

[novicius]

Too bad since I highly doubt anything will come of the Russia investigation.
Just my feelings on the matter today -- in fact, I'm doubling-down: NOTHING WILL COME OF THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION.

Or anything else, really. Trump, for all his low approval rating, is still very strong with traditional Republicans and a sizable chunk of Independents. Mid-terms could flip the House at best, that's not enough to dethrone him (need the Senate for that).

Re-election? Hell, he's got good odds as long as the DNC continues to put up weak candidates, alienating their own base much less swaying swing-votes. #shrug

So fuck it Dude, let's go bowling. :)

[MR2 Fan]

it's not about whether nothing will come of the russia investigation, there's PLENTY that will come of it...the question is whether it will actually affect him.

Also....35 republicans are not running for re-election....so either they're happy they passed the tax bill to help their donors and abandoning ship, or they're scared about soemthing

[novicius]

I will believe it when I see it. :popcorn:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bernie Sanders is everything he accused Hillary Clinton of being.


I have to disagree.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2015/sep/02/11-examples-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-hol/

Even if you're right that Sanders is just as lousy as Hillary. It still doesn't make me want to support Hillary. I can tell you that the primary was possibly rigged from personal experience. I voted ONLY for Bernie Sanders on my ballot and nothing else. The machine just couldn't 'read' my selection. I had to make more selections in order for the machine to accept my 'vote'. Anyway, even if I was just delusional..., you should be asking the democrats who voted for Hillary over Sanders to fuck themselves! Why the fuck do they have to support her when Sanders is just as lousy? Here's another fun fact:

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/apr/27/mike-crute/despite-losing-nomination-hillary-clinton-bernie-s/

Bernie Sanders has the highest favorable rating across all political spectrum.

You fucking stupid liberals just had to pick Hillary, huh? Assuming DNC didn't mess with the primaries, you guys can go fuck yourselves too then? You have the nerve to blame voters like me for voting for somebody they really want and with higher chance of beating the pussy grabbing orangeutan?



He's a warmongering corporate shill.
What are you talking about?
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-defense-budget-pentagon-219386



He never had a steady payroll check, and was on welfare, for most of his adult life, until his first job, in government. He didn't release his taxes like Hillary Clinton did.
I have a steady payroll check, but that somehow makes me a better politician? Had been on welfare disqualifies you from becoming President? Yes, Bernie is slow to release his taxes, but I suppose his wife eventually did get to it. Did it reveal anything inappropriate? Conflict of interests like Trump?

Anyway, everyone should just masturbate away and vote how ever they want. It's your vote.

Personally, I don't like Trump or Hillary, but should either one become the president, I'll live with it. I seriously doubt Trump is crazy enough to start a world war that'll destroy his own hotels. We'll survive this evil for now..., and I'm still going to vote for who I believe in rather than the lesser of the 2 evils. I also have no problems fucking myself. :p

Maybe I'm bamboozled. However, if you're still crying over Hillary, you're poisoned by liberal ideology.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Also....35 republicans are not running for re-election....so either they're happy they passed the tax bill to help their donors and abandoning ship, or they're scared about soemthing

Yes, this is really weird. Record # of Republican house representatives are leaving this worst congress ever. Wonder why...

It could be a strategy to leave that shit stained house for the Democrats to clean up. They also know that Democrats probably won't be able to fully clean it up... so when voters get angry later on, they'll blame all the shit on the democrats!

Wonder if they're that forward thinking... or maybe they're just sick of Trump too.

I'm telling you Bernie, time is now for you to start a 3rd party!

[FaultyMario]

I thought the Worst.Congress.Ever. was the one that BLOCKED OBAMA!!1!

[Crazed_Insanity]

So they just got bored without Obama so they quit perhaps...

[neanderthal]

I have to disagree.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2015/sep/02/11-examples-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-hol/

Even if you're right that Sanders is just as lousy as Hillary. It still doesn't make me want to support Hillary. I can tell you that the primary was possibly rigged from personal experience. I voted ONLY for Bernie Sanders on my ballot and nothing else. The machine just couldn't 'read' my selection. I had to make more selections in order for the machine to accept my 'vote'. Anyway, even if I was just delusional..., you should be asking the democrats who voted for Hillary over Sanders to fuck themselves! Why the fuck do they have to support her when Sanders is just as lousy? Here's another fun fact:

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/apr/27/mike-crute/despite-losing-nomination-hillary-clinton-bernie-s/

Bernie Sanders has the highest favorable rating across all political spectrum.

You fucking stupid liberals just had to pick Hillary, huh? Assuming DNC didn't mess with the primaries, you guys can go fuck yourselves too then? You have the nerve to blame voters like me for voting for somebody they really want and with higher chance of beating the pussy grabbing orangeutan?



What are you talking about?
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-defense-budget-pentagon-219386



I have a steady payroll check, but that somehow makes me a better politician? Had been on welfare disqualifies you from becoming President? Yes, Bernie is slow to release his taxes, but I suppose his wife eventually did get to it. Did it reveal anything inappropriate? Conflict of interests like Trump?

Anyway, everyone should just masturbate away and vote how ever they want. It's your vote.

Personally, I don't like Trump or Hillary, but should either one become the president, I'll live with it. I seriously doubt Trump is crazy enough to start a world war that'll destroy his own hotels. We'll survive this evil for now..., and I'm still going to vote for who I believe in rather than the lesser of the 2 evils. I also have no problems fucking myself. :p

Maybe I'm bamboozled. However, if you're still crying over Hillary, you're poisoned by liberal ideology.

Maybe you weren't paying attention, but I listed specific things that Bernie Sanders has/ hasn't done. I didn't go vague with "her emails" like, well, you. I then cited a source so you wouldn't think I was makingnthings up.

But keep caping for him. It's a free country.

[Crazed_Insanity]

As you may keep caping for Hillary and have sex with yourself too. Cheerios.

Your specifics are BS btw... and your sources is one article from another disgruntle Hillary supporter... and Denzel Washington telling me I'm bamboozled! Wow.

BTW, why couldn't you at least 'unspoiler' my links to politifact and just 'spoiler' my own words for the safety of this forum?

[Fogelhund]

“Supporters of President Donald Trump singled out dark-skinned lawmakers, legislative staffers and children at the Capitol on Jan. 25 as they protested congressional efforts to pass immigration reform, according to staffers of the Arizona Legislature and two Democratic legislators, AZ Capitol Times reported. “Waving large flags in support of Trump while standing between the House and Senate buildings, the protesters, who were also armed, asked just about anyone who crossed their path if they ‘support illegal immigration.’”

One dark-skinned Arizonian who was asked if he was in the country “illegally” was Rep. Eric Descheenie (D-Chinle).

Rep. Descheenie is a Navajo lawmaker.

“I’m indigenous to these lands,” Rep. Descheenie said. “My ancestors fought and died on these lands. I just told them, ‘Don’t ask me that question.’”

[MR2 Fan]

:smh:

[neanderthal]

As you may keep caping for Hillary and have sex with yourself too. Cheerios.

Your specifics are BS btw... and your sources is one article from another disgruntle Hillary supporter... and Denzel Washington telling me I'm bamboozled! Wow.

BTW, why couldn't you at least 'unspoiler' my links to politifact and just 'spoiler' my own words for the safety of this forum?

I don't know if you noticed but Hillary isn't a political figure anymore, and i'm not caping for her. But, if you say some bullshit i'll call you out on it.


Bernies vote on the Crime Bill. (https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-voted-for-1994-crime-bill-to-support-assault-weapons-ban-violence-against-women-provisions/) From Bernies own website no less.

Bernies vote on Kosovo. (http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-nato/) From Feel the Bern website.

Bernies vote on Afghanistan (http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-afghanistan/) From his own website.

Bernies vote on Libya (http://time.com/4156220/democratic-debate-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-libya/) Time Magazine

Bernies vote on the commodities futures modernisation act (https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/17/politics/bernie-sanders-wall-street-deregulation-debate/index.html) CNN.com

Bernies vote on the Amber Alert (https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511902004) Democratic Underground.

Bernies vote against Immigration reform (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/10/yes-bernie-sanders-voted-to-kill-immigration-reform-in-2007-but-its-complicated/?utm_term=.7ec6f2a6c8ff) Washington Post

Bernies vote against the Magnitsky Act (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/6/15/1672214/-Why-did-Sanders-vote-against-Russian-sanctions) Daily KOS

Bernies vote against gun control. (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/10/generation-forward-pac/did-bernie-sanders-vote-against-background-checks-/) Politifact.


I hope you can see that there's a plethora of sources. And they all corroborate what I said.

So, can you tell us what was in Hillary's emails? And post your sources, please.

[neanderthal]

“Supporters of President Donald Trump singled out dark-skinned lawmakers, legislative staffers and children at the Capitol on Jan. 25 as they protested congressional efforts to pass immigration reform, according to staffers of the Arizona Legislature and two Democratic legislators, AZ Capitol Times reported. “Waving large flags in support of Trump while standing between the House and Senate buildings, the protesters, who were also armed, asked just about anyone who crossed their path if they ‘support illegal immigration.’”

One dark-skinned Arizonian who was asked if he was in the country “illegally” was Rep. Eric Descheenie (D-Chinle).

Rep. Descheenie is a Navajo lawmaker.

“I’m indigenous to these lands,” Rep. Descheenie said. “My ancestors fought and died on these lands. I just told them, ‘Don’t ask me that question.’”

But they're not racists.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't know if you noticed but Hillary isn't a political figure anymore, and i'm not caping for her. But, if you say some bullshit i'll call you out on it.


Bernies vote on the Crime Bill. (https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-voted-for-1994-crime-bill-to-support-assault-weapons-ban-violence-against-women-provisions/) From Bernies own website no less.

Bernies vote on Kosovo. (http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-nato/) From Feel the Bern website.

Bernies vote on Afghanistan (http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-afghanistan/) From his own website.

Bernies vote on Libya (http://time.com/4156220/democratic-debate-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-libya/) Time Magazine

Bernies vote on the commodities futures modernisation act (https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/17/politics/bernie-sanders-wall-street-deregulation-debate/index.html) CNN.com

Bernies vote on the Amber Alert (https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511902004) Democratic Underground.

Bernies vote against Immigration reform (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/10/yes-bernie-sanders-voted-to-kill-immigration-reform-in-2007-but-its-complicated/?utm_term=.7ec6f2a6c8ff) Washington Post

Bernies vote against the Magnitsky Act (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/6/15/1672214/-Why-did-Sanders-vote-against-Russian-sanctions) Daily KOS

Bernies vote against gun control. (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/10/generation-forward-pac/did-bernie-sanders-vote-against-background-checks-/) Politifact.


I hope you can see that there's a plethora of sources. And they all corroborate what I said.

So, can you tell us what was in Hillary's emails? And post your sources, please.

Dude, i still really don't see any problems with Bernie, not sure what you're trying to prove with these links.

Can you elaborate more on why we can't elect him in the future? I honestly don't have problems with his record. Can you just pick one of your links and comment why Bernie made the wrong decision with his vote? And hopefully also how Hillary would've done better?

You wish to continue to support another lousy democratic candidate because of trump?

What are you trying to prove here?

[neanderthal]

Dude, i still really don't see any problems with Bernie, not sure what you're trying to prove with these links.

Can you elaborate more on why we can't elect him in the future? I honestly don't have problems with his record. Can you just pick one of your links and comment why Bernie made the wrong decision with his vote? And hopefully also how Hillary would've done better?

You wish to continue to support another lousy democratic candidate because of trump?

What are you trying to prove here?


Crazed_Insanity]

Even if you're right that Sanders is just as lousy as Hillary. It still doesn't make me want to support Hillary. I can tell you that the primary was possibly rigged from personal experience. I voted ONLY for Bernie Sanders on my ballot and nothing else. The machine just couldn't 'read' my selection. I had to make more selections in order for the machine to accept my 'vote'. Anyway, even if I was just delusional..., you should be asking the democrats who voted for Hillary over Sanders to fuck themselves! Why the fuck do they have to support her when Sanders is just as lousy? Here's another fun fact:

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...nton-bernie-s/

Bernie Sanders has the highest favorable rating across all political spectrum.

You fucking stupid liberals just had to pick Hillary, huh? Assuming DNC didn't mess with the primaries, you guys can go fuck yourselves too then? You have the nerve to blame voters like me for voting for somebody they really want and with higher chance of beating the pussy grabbing orangeutan?


What are you talking about?
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/...entagon-219386


I have a steady payroll check, but that somehow makes me a better politician? Had been on welfare disqualifies you from becoming President? Yes, Bernie is slow to release his taxes, but I suppose his wife eventually did get to it. Did it reveal anything inappropriate? Conflict of interests like Trump?

Anyway, everyone should just masturbate away and vote how ever they want. It's your vote.

Personally, I don't like Trump or Hillary, but should either one become the president, I'll live with it. I seriously doubt Trump is crazy enough to start a world war that'll destroy his own hotels. We'll survive this evil for now..., and I'm still going to vote for who I believe in rather than the lesser of the 2 evils. I also have no problems fucking myself.

Maybe I'm bamboozled. However, if you're still crying over Hillary, you're poisoned by liberal ideology.

You don't even know what you've said.

Like I said, Bernie is EVERYTHING he accused Hillary of being. But keep charging your horse at the windmills Donkey Hote. Mrs Clinton ain't a public figure no more.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Pretty much everyone is bitching about Trump, you're like the only dude whining about Sanders.

Unless liberals come up with a more favorable candidate to beat Trump, you smearing sanders will only hand trump another win. Is that what you want?

I don't get you.

There's less smearing of Sanders coming from the right! What is going on?

[Tom Servo]

It's because we're not convinced magic grandpa will be a lot better. He's got a history of being Trump-like. Lots of great words, very little of it backed up in action. His words just resonate more with us than Trump's. He makes a great senator and advocate. He is a necessary voice in the legislature. He isn't necessarily a great leader, and part of him being so popular is that he wasn't put through the ringer of the final part of the presidential campaign. As mentioned previously here, the RNC apparently had a good solid bit of opposition research on him, only some of which neanderthal just repeated.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, you guys win. Sorry for being bamboozled by Sanders. What a crook he is.... Just as bad as Trump... and Hillary.

We're fucked then.

[neanderthal]

Pretty much everyone is bitching about Trump, you're like the only dude whining about Sanders.

Unless liberals come up with a more favorable candidate to beat Trump, you smearing sanders will only hand trump another win. Is that what you want?

I don't get you.

There's less smearing of Sanders coming from the right! What is going on?

Muthafucker you were smearing Clinton!!! What's good for the goose ain't good for the gander?


You "but her emails-ed" all of us here all year, told us she was untrustworthy, she was a warmonger worse than Obama, a corporate shill, and all manner of shit all. fucking. year. Here I am showing you your candidate ain't any better suddenly you're "why can't we get along? ... we can't be infighting, ... we have to beat Trump" but where the fuck was that team spirit when we needed it before the election?

For every single reason you think Mrs Clinton was unsuitable, your candidate is just as bad, except he has a long record of not achieving much. And, after calling black and brown peoples issues "identity politics" throughout the entire time, and then calling on us to heed the plight of the working class (which itself is identity politics) and ignoring our issues, he sees the power of black voters in Alabama and other elections, he pivots to embrace Rev William Barber to try and dis/ re- alienate himself with blacks? GTFOH. We see him. We've seen him. We've been seeing him. And we ain't buying what he's selling.

Republicans have a foot thick dossier on oppo research for his candidacy. He's given them decades of stuff to attack them with. You think they ain't ready for him?

I swear you alt left Bernie bros are a special kind of thick. Your candidate is deeply flawed. So deep I can almost guarantee you his nomination will result in a Trump win; that's how poisonous his candidacy is to blacks and browns. The sooner you realise it the better you can channel your energies. So you tell me, do you want a Trump win? Because what the alt left is pushing for (Bernie) the "establishment left" isn't buying. And y'all poisoning the well by continually pushing Bernie on us.

We. don't. want. him. We won't turn out for him. We won't vote for him.

Harris/ Kennedy 2020. Fidel fucking Castro 2020. Darth Vader 2020. A used piece of gum 2020. Harambe 2020. Anybody but bloody Bernie 2020.

And, by the way, a lot of the narrative being widely disseminated by the Bernie Bros has been found to have originated in Russian troll/ bot farms, (https://www.salon.com/2017/03/31/fake-news-websites-targeted-trump-bernie-sanders-supporters-to-spread-conspiracy-theories/) spread through various forums and social media, then perpetuated ad nauseum by the Bernie or bust contingent.

So congratulations on dividing the left. And falling for Russkie propaganda.

[Tom Servo]

This is not a zero-sum game. Sanders isn't only either magic grandpa or a total crook. Those three are not the only possible people to be president.

[Crazed_Insanity]

True.

However, it still doesn't quite make sense for Neanderthal, and the likes, to start a smearing campaign at this point in time.

He's not only saying Sanders is not a magic grandpa, but He's actually saying Sanders is a crook... and an ineffective one at best.

My biggest worry for sanders is that he's just too old... and nice guys and nice ideas don't always translate well as presidents. Jimmy Carter would be a good example. Sanders message is passionate, but he himself isn't quite so charismatic... so I can see that the country might still suffer under his leadership, but it'll surely be better than Trump's. Hopefully the government will also be more transparent and less abusive with all the surveillance crap. (This is the part I particularly can't trust Hillary with...)

Anyway, one better hope that a fresh new candidate turns up that can beat both Trump and Sanders. Otherwise, it looks like Trump is getting another term.

[novicius]

So Memogate is the saying that the Obama Administration relied on Steele's first GOP then DNC/Clinton-funded opposition dossier (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/01/09/what-you-need-to-know-about-christopher-steele-the-fbi-and-the-dossier/?utm_term=.54257a7d32ad) (that is nonetheless fairly accurate) to green-light FISA applications to spy on Carter Page and the Trump Campaign.

Opposition dossiers are nothing new and not going away anytime soon. Carter Page left the campaign on September 26th, 2016. The surveillance began on October 21st, 2016, nearly a full month after he left the Trump campaign... but IMO there's no way they weren't tracking him sooner, considering Steele went to the FBI in early July.

The memo doesn't say what the results of that surveillance was, just that it was based on opposition research (kinda whiny IMO).

So... if you feel that Trump's collusion with Russia is fabricated (as many/most Conservatives proclaim) then this memo is PROOF of Obama Administration/Clinton Foundation/DNC/Deep State using U.S. Intelligence against a political rival. This is the reason Trump will fire Rosenstein and eventually Mueller.

On the other hand, if you feel that Trump has indeed been taking heavy Russian money since 2011 personally, then in his businesses (as affirmed by his own sons), and then throughout the Trump Campaign, then this memo is a nothingburger. There's plenty of smoke to justify those FISA approvals, with or without the dossier. #shrug

[Crazed_Insanity]

So... if you feel that Trump's collusion with Russia is fabricated (as many/most Conservatives proclaim) then this memo is PROOF of Obama Administration/Clinton Foundation/DNC/Deep State using U.S. Intelligence against a political rival. This is the reason Trump will fire Rosenstein and eventually Mueller.

On the other hand, if you feel that Trump has indeed been taking heavy Russian money since 2011 personally, then in his businesses (as affirmed by his own sons), and then throughout the Trump Campaign, then this memo is a nothingburger. There's plenty of smoke to justify those FISA approvals, with or without the dossier. #shrug

Either way, US intelligence sucks. Investigations should've been completed before Trump took office... not be on-going when the russian puppet is already sitting in the oval office. Even if on-going, then it should be a top secret investigation rather than a public one. So top level that the president doesn't even know about it. Whether Trump is really a Russian puppet or not, if you were Trump, why wouldn't you fire Rosenstein and Mueller?

Intel community also failed miserably for the other side as well. Why the fuck was FBI mentioning emails again right before the election? I really do like Comey a lot, but he deserves to be fired just for that!

We have a huge divide amongst citizens... and now it's obvious that our government agencies are fractured too. The state of our union right now is amazingly weak.

Russian meddlers must be very happy now.

Even if Russians never actually interfered..., they are probably still very happy to see America self destruct.

I guess the only way to unite this country again is for somebody to attack pearl harbor again? Or perhaps an alien invasion...

[MR2 Fan]

Geopolitics and fake news (Hypersonic Chinese railgun)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-secretly-building-superweapon-leaked-194857640.html

This image looks incredibly fake to me

[neanderthal]

This is not a zero-sum game. Sanders isn't only either magic grandpa or a total crook. Those three are not the only possible people to be president.

Yeah, that's not it though. Bernie Bros have completely and totally turned me off him, absolutely, with their (dare I say misplaced?) zest for him and their completely illogical approach to getting people on board. And i'm not the only one who feels that way.

A perfect example is billi shit mouthing Hillary the last two years and now saying i'm dividing the left. This is shit i'm dealing with on twitter everyday.

[neanderthal]

So Memogate is the saying that the Obama Administration relied on Steele's first GOP then DNC/Clinton-funded opposition dossier (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/01/09/what-you-need-to-know-about-christopher-steele-the-fbi-and-the-dossier/?utm_term=.54257a7d32ad) (that is nonetheless fairly accurate) to green-light FISA applications to spy on Carter Page and the Trump Campaign.

Opposition dossiers are nothing new and not going away anytime soon. Carter Page left the campaign on September 26th, 2016. The surveillance began on October 21st, 2016, nearly a full month after he left the Trump campaign... but IMO there's no way they weren't tracking him sooner, considering Steele went to the FBI in early July.

The memo doesn't say what the results of that surveillance was, just that it was based on opposition research (kinda whiny IMO).

So... if you feel that Trump's collusion with Russia is fabricated (as many/most Conservatives proclaim) then this memo is PROOF of Obama Administration/Clinton Foundation/DNC/Deep State using U.S. Intelligence against a political rival. This is the reason Trump will fire Rosenstein and eventually Mueller.

On the other hand, if you feel that Trump has indeed been taking heavy Russian money since 2011 personally, then in his businesses (as affirmed by his own sons), and then throughout the Trump Campaign, then this memo is a nothingburger. There's plenty of smoke to justify those FISA approvals, with or without the dossier. #shrug

This memo stuff is a distraction y'all. Trump was supposed to impose sanctions on Russia. That's the story that's being swamped/ blanketed by this nothingburger of a story.

[neanderthal]

Either way, US intelligence sucks. Investigations should've been completed before Trump took office... not be on-going when the russian puppet is already sitting in the oval office. Even if on-going, then it should be a top secret investigation rather than a public one. So top level that the president doesn't even know about it. Whether Trump is really a Russian puppet or not, if you were Trump, why wouldn't you fire Rosenstein and Mueller?

Intel community also failed miserably for the other side as well. Why the fuck was FBI mentioning emails again right before the election? I really do like Comey a lot, but he deserves to be fired just for that!

We have a huge divide amongst citizens... and now it's obvious that our government agencies are fractured too. The state of our union right now is amazingly weak.

Russian meddlers must be very happy now.

Even if Russians never actually interfered..., they are probably still very happy to see America self destruct.

I guess the only way to unite this country again is for somebody to attack pearl harbor again? Or perhaps an alien invasion...

You're just really gullible aren't you?

I'm going to really try hard to go back to ignoring you.

[novicius]

This memo stuff is a distraction y'all. Trump was supposed to impose sanctions on Russia. That's the story that's being swamped/ blanketed by this nothingburger of a story.
Yes but if you're Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh, Memogate is outrage fuel.

[neanderthal]

Yes but if you're Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh, Memogate is outrage fuel.

As was but her emails gate, uranium one gate, childporn in a pizza shop gate, and so on.

[novicius]

Yes and it obviously worked.

I'm still in the "nothing's going to happen" camp.

[neanderthal]

Yes and it obviously worked.

I'm still in the "nothing's going to happen" camp.

But of course. Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the White House.

And they're stacking the courts with their judicial candidates, all the way from the Supreme Court to the court of pets distressed by animatronic toys. And they're firing/ dismissing long term career law enforcement and installing their stooges.

So yeah, nothing much will happen.

[neanderthal]

Here's a list of "scandals" perpetuated by the right through the many sundry avenues they use to disseminate disinformation, that turned out to be complete phooey. Or when Trump needed a distraction.


Birtherism.
Benghazi
Uranium One
Pizzagate
Seth Rich
The infamous Bowling Green Massacre
The bugging of Trump Tower


It's a consistent pattern. If something is going to cause controversy or scandal, they rile up the plebs with some high grade unicorn shit, not the cheap made in China stuff, the really pure unobtanium stuff, and shove it out there, and the masses, ever hungry to go on the warpath against Clinton, swallow it whole and keeping feeding the flames of anger against the Clintons.

Even ordinary things like passing CHIP, get held up in order to manipulate decision making. They know their agenda is unwholesome, and they are using any means to get it passed.

And they know we see it, and they are hurrying that shit up as fast as they can. Obstructing Mueller as much as possible while their patsy is in the White House. Above the water the head is bobbing mildly, beneath the surface, the feet are furiously paddling.


Was there a Clinton Cash story there too that I missed? FBI secret society and texts?

All distractions.

[G'day Mate]

What was Pizzagate?

[drew]

Fucking ridiculous. That's what it was.

According to Alex Jones, Podesta was operating a kiddie porn operation in the basement of a pizzeria in Pennsylvania (I think?).

Some fuckwit shows up with an assault rifle and shoots a few times, and he gets arrested. Arrested, because he was a white guy.


The business didn't even have a basement.

So yeah, fucking ridiculous.

[MR2 Fan]

Fucking ridiculous. That's what it was.

According to Alex Jones, Podesta was operating a kiddie porn operation in the basement of a pizzeria in Pennsylvania (I think?).

Some fuckwit shows up with an assault rifle and shoots a few times, and he gets arrested. Arrested, because he was a white guy.


The business didn't even have a basement.

So yeah, fucking ridiculous.

yeah, Hillary and other dems were supposedly part of it as well

[drew]

Of course they were. But it's incovfefeable that the Trump campaign tried to obtain "oppo research" on her with Russian assistance.

Incovfefeable!

[neanderthal]

Of course they were. But it's incovfefeable that the Trump campaign tried to obtain "oppo research" on her with Russian assistance.

Incovfefeable!

Word of the day.

[Fogelhund]

https://makarandimpressions.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/1.jpg

The attempts by the Trump administration are a dangerous step, as they now have not only eroded public opinion about media, but now are attempting to erode public perception of the FBI. Once the public no longer trusts the “deep state” and supports labeling public servants as traitors based on failure to support the POTUS..... Acually, you could see most of the points on this poster to be true, in degrees. IMO, this government needs to come down... I'm not sure how you bring a full government down, this is beyond an Impeachment situation, to many people are complicit.

Washington, D.C. *– U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ), Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, released the following statement on partisan attacks on the FBI and Department of Justice:

“In 2016, the Russian government engaged in an elaborate plot to interfere in an American election and undermine our democracy. Russia employed the same tactics it has used to influence elections around the world, from France and Germany to Ukraine, Montenegro, and beyond. Putin’s regime launched cyberattacks and spread disinformation with the goal of sowing chaos and weakening faith in our institutions. And while we have no evidence that these efforts affected the outcome of our election, I fear they succeeded in fueling political discord and dividing us from one another.

“The latest attacks on the FBI and Department of Justice serve no American interests – no party’s, no president’s, only Putin’s. The American people deserve to know all of the facts surrounding Russia’s ongoing efforts to subvert our democracy, which is why Special Counsel Mueller’s investigation must proceed unimpeded. Our nation’s elected officials, including the president, must stop looking at this investigation through the warped lens of politics and manufacturing partisan sideshows. If we continue to undermine our own rule of law, we are doing Putin’s job for him.”

[Tom Servo]

When I saw this posted as an image on Twitter, I just assumed it was fake. But no, it's real.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVINWGDW0AANfRv.jpg:large

FWIW, the Koch brothers stood to gain about $1.4 billion from the tax plan, this nice person gets an extra Snickers each week.

[drew]

I thought he was Paul Ryan (@SpeakerRyan)?

At least I hope so.


Fuck me. He's actually both.

How fucking stupid are people? [rhetorical]

[Tom Servo]

Good catch, I didn't think about the fact that he normally posts under @SpeakerRyan. It does appear to be legit though.

I seriously thought it was a parody.

[G'day Mate]

Fucking ridiculous. That's what it was.

According to Alex Jones, ...

Got it.

[FaultyMario]

Geopolitics and fake news (Hypersonic Chinese railgun)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-secretly-building-superweapon-leaked-194857640.html

This image looks incredibly fake to me


Muslamic railguns, railguns, railguns.

[speedpimp]

I thought he was Paul Ryan (@SpeakerRyan)?

At least I hope so.


Fuck me. He's actually both.

How fucking stupid are people? [rhetorical]

Stupid is as stupid does.

[Jason]

What was Pizzagate?


Fucking ridiculous. That's what it was.

According to Alex Jones, Podesta was operating a kiddie porn operation in the basement of a pizzeria in Pennsylvania (I think?).

Some fuckwit shows up with an assault rifle and shoots a few times, and he gets arrested. Arrested, because he was a white guy.


The business didn't even have a basement.

So yeah, fucking ridiculous.

Happened down the street from me... While it didn't fuck Comet over business wise, it did close another place two doors down that supposedly had a logo that meant this or that, and constantly got death threats. Really fucked with my neighborhood for a while. :|

[Jason]

Can't seem to edit on mobile.. pizzagate happened in DC, less than a quarter of a mile from me.

Which was fun after a gunman showed up at my work place in DC... Apparently crazy + gun follows me around or something.

[drew]

DC/PA, point remains. Fucking ridiculous.



And the Ryan $1.50 tweet has been deleted.

[Tom Servo]

Good of him to stand behind his word.

[drew]

:lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wonder if Ryan really thought $1.50 for the middle class is an achievement he's proud of...

He should also tweet about how much the Koch bros saved on taxes... that's probably be really impressive!

Also, wonder why people can only have this $1.50 temporarily...

[Cam]

Good of him to stand behind his word.

As someone who does not pay very much attention to the political shit-show, you're going to have to explain this one to me.

[Tom Servo]

Oh, just the fact that he is bragging about the tax plan that he helped pass by saying that it's great that someone's earning (pulls out calculator) about 3 3/4 cents more per hour assuming a 40 hour workweek and, when confronted about it, pulls it and tries to pretend it never happened.

More fun math - assuming that person is making minimum wage in Wisconsin ($7.25 an hour) and being generous by rounding up to 4 cents per hour, they got a 0.5% raise out of the tax plan.

[Tom Servo]

Oh, I somehow missed this. Misused quotation marks and "Their" when he meant "There", yet then got it right later in the *same sentence*. Impressively bad.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVHkBnyVMAAkU7g.jpg:large

[drew]

Oh, the irony of the last sentence.

[dodint]

Dumb of Ryan to try and claim the $1.50 as a victory. Dumb of people to look for the extra in their paychecks before the new tax tables are even published. How about we, as a country, table his and come back to it in March?

[Tom Servo]

It was my understanding that, by now, withholdings from paychecks would generally line up with the new tax bill? Happy to wait if I'm wrong, but I hadn't heard anything to this point that it might take until March to show up.

[dodint]

Ryan himself said the new tax tables wouldn't be out until Mid-February which is what makes he tweet even stupider.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/new-tax-rates-could-show-up-in-paychecks-as-soon-as-february/article/2644089



“The average taxpayer in every income group is getting a tax cut,” House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., said on "Good Morning America." “So I think when people actually see that instead of getting tax increases, they’re getting a tax cut, when they see the withholding tables changing in February and seeing more money in their paychecks, when they’re seeing the economic growth that will result from historic tax reform, I think minds are going to change.”
-Dec 20, 2017


The tables change in February. So you'll have to work a full pay period under that accounting before you see meaningful change. The earliest I think I'll see a bump is Feb 28, more like March 14.

It doesn't really matter. When you do your year end taxes you'll get your over-payment for the first ~6 weeks back anyway.

Private businesses could be anticipating the table and changing early but that's not a fair comparison since they would be using fabricated tables.

[Tom Servo]

Fair. I'm surprised that's not being broadcast more widely, as the only date I'd heard up until this point was Jan. 15th to start seeing withholding changes (I totally forget where I heard that). That said, I didn't really see much of any change in mine, and a friend saw a minor change, so that would explain things.

Given our income level, I'd actually expect this tax plan to help us significantly, so my timeframe being wrong would make sense.

[Jason]

My tax withholding changed my last paycheck ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[dodint]

We didn't say it wouldn't; actually said the opposite. The concern is the validity of the change.

[Freude am Fahren]

Tables went out early, last month. It's up to the employers themselves to implement them.

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/2018-withholding-tables-now-available

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/n1036.pdf

Jan 15th. was probably the first possible paycheck, being the first Thursday after their release on the 11th, hence that date being out there, but it's unlikely anyone saw it that soon.

I actually will benefit greatly from this, but I don't really care, it's still all bullshit.

[dodint]

Excellent, thanks!

I am happy to be wrong once if it makes Ryan wrong twice.

They were published Jan 11. Employers would have had to pick them up immediately and the employee pay period would have to have fallen perfectly for someone to see effective change already. Not impossible but unlikely. Looks like the IRS is mandating/advising employers changeover by Feb 15.

[Jason]

I like having more money, like anyone else, but I hate to see valuable services suffer for it.

[Phil_SS]

My paycheck showed a difference last week.

[JoshInKC]

I couldn't tell- my grant structure changed with the new year/Spring semester, so I'm making more than I did previously.

[Tom Servo]

This douchebag -

https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_06/2317076/180205-art-jones-illinois-congress-njs-954a_48ddae52ca1108be172221cf521dae5e.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg

- is running unopposed for the Republican primary in Illinois' third congressional district. He's a Holocaust denier and former head of the American Nazi Party.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/holocaust-denier-running-unopposed-illinois-gop-congressional-primary-n844736?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

[MR2 Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCw7RJ5eE8

[Jason]

Nazis and child molesters... yet the GOP is the "family values" party.

[Fogelhund]

Trump evangelical adviser says you don't need flu shots when you have Jesus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=IcZeGMuQ2oo

[dodint]

Ross had a good take on the Nazi Republican. I don't remember the specifics but the gist of it was that basically anyone can sign up for the primary pretty easily. I suspect a real Republican will step forward closer to the filing deadline and this nutjob will lose his platform.

[Tom Servo]

Given that the candidate filing deadline was 12/4/2017, I don't think that'll happen. That said, the article mentions that it's a solidly democratic district and the guy has essentially no shot at winning, but he will go to the general being guaranteed a win in the Republican primary.

[Filing deadline taken from this ballotpedia article, which also lists him as the only Republican candidate: https://ballotpedia.org/Illinois%27_3rd_Congressional_District_election,_2 018]

[dodint]

Thanks!

Hopefully the media will do the right thing and not give him a platform to spew his rhetoric from.

[Jason]

That's awfully optimistic of you...

[21Kid]

Sorry for the late response. I have been away for a bit.
Discussion follows. Not argument. I just thought I'd get on my soapbox for a minute here.

I'm with you guys on the social problems and inequality in this country (and I wasn't always), but I cannot support new spending, or even current spending. No way.

Congress should...no, must balance the budget before spending more money.

I realize I'm in the minority on this, at this forum and certainly in the "gimme-gimme" real world where everyone, rich and poor alike, wants "free" money from the government, but I say we need to cut spending and raise taxes until all debts are paid, and then maintain a balanced budget. A Constitutional amendment requiring one would be good, and yes, I realize how difficult those are to get passed.It amazes me how these theories that Democrats want "free" handouts, and don't care about the budget or deficit. Same goes for Republicans being the "Jobs" party, or better for the economy. When over the last 30 years it has been quite the opposite across the board.

Every Dem I know only wants people to have an even chance to get a job, and to pay our own way.

We don't like paying taxes either. I guess the problem is that we want some kind of benefit from our taxes (i.e. infrastructure). Somehow, that makes us "want free stuff"? :? And yet, huge tax cuts to corporations already making record profits isn't seen as a giveaway. :smh:

[/end rant] However... to your point, I disagree. I think we need to spend the money now to fix what is broken (i.e. infrastructure), or would be benefit us as a nation. Infrastructure spending would benefit us both in the near term (construction jobs) and long term (see China). While it would be a long, hard ;) road to balancing the budget. We could do both!!! just by reducing the military budget. But yet... the Republican congress has increased the already unsustainable military budget over what was requested, and above the cap set on defense spending. :smh:

I'm all for paying off the debt. I'd LOVE that. But, I don't think it should be on the shoulders of the middle-class through more taxes, when corporations are raking in billions of dollars in tax cuts and military spending is nearly 60% of our budget. :( I'd be more than happy to share the responsibility of paying it back through higher taxes, after those are addressed.


I'm actually a huge fan of cutting spending overall, but that doesn't mean cutting services. I'm a firm believer that a lot of our bloat comes from multiple levels of for-profit businesses sticking their hands in the pot. Hard to cut the fat, though, when the ones who'd write the new rules would end up "hurting" due to them.

As far as being "gimme gimme", I suppose I qualify. I think we have enough wealth and resources in this country to feed, house, educate, and provide healthcare to everyone at a basic level. I think improving the base level of quality of life is more important than increasing the wealth of the absolute richest though, and I understand that makes me unamerican. Way to ruin my "no free stuff" idea. :finger:

[Tom Servo]

I feel like the one key difference between the parties is whether or not you accept that there will be people who want/need free stuff. In my mind, there will always be people who or are either unable or unwilling to work. The question becomes whether you allow that and spend taxpayer money to support those people or you demand personal responsibility and feel that it's unfair that you have to pay so someone else can do nothing. Also, while I think we would all agree that there's a big difference between people who cannot work and people who will not work, that difference always seems to melt away when it comes to actually funding support for those people. Mental health budgets, the VA, addiction treatment - and with that one, you also get the judgment call over whether it's an illness or a personal failing, so even there people don't agree whether it's a "cannot" or "will not".

My personal view is that while there's a sense that it's unfair of some people to essentially get things for free, especially for the "will nots", it's better overall to spend some now and support them rather than to deal with what happens when we don't. Those cuts I mentioned above I believe are a big part of why the homeless situation is out of control in a lot of cities. I know part of it too is exploding housing costs, but part of it is just giving up on people. Now we have things like hepatitis outbreaks, and to me it sounds like fixing the problems now, or even just treating the symptoms of the problem without actually trying to fix it, will cost more than it would have to just try to prevent it in the first place. In the meantime, I think the "will nots" will remain about the same whether we offer support to that group. I don't think a lot of people will just choose not to work in exchange for a basic level of subsistence, like food stamps and a small but safe place to live. I'd be curious to see if there are stats on that from places like Norway that will provide you with housing if you can't afford it on your own, and as far as i know there's no work requirement for that.

It's also why I have never been a fan of the idea that we need to run the country like a business. In a business, you can fire your lowest performers. You can cut costs by laying off staff. You can't do that as a country. It's not like these people can just go immigrate to another country, and they have to end up somewhere. So we end up with a lot of people in prison, where we don't try to rehabilitate them and therefore have high recidivism rates (and spend a small fortune per prisoner per year to house them), and we end up with a lot of homeless people.

So, yeah. I think it's unfair, but I also think it's better to swallow one's pride on that and just do what needs to be done to get the best possible outcome, and part of that is paying taxes and handling these situations upfront.

Aside, I can think of three people I've known that rely very heavily on government assistance. One is a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, the other two are Trump supporters.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's not just about fairness..., but I just don't think we should enable able body folks to continue on that way. Taxpayer help ought to just be helping somebody get back on their feet..., not to sustain and prolong their lying on the ground refusing to get up.

Just like now I refuse to give out cash to homeless folks. I only ask them if they want food, if yes, I'm perfectly happy to help them get food. However, if they want money, sorry, no cash. I've also seen some assholes 'homeless' who throw away the food that people bought for them...

I'm at lost why some conservative 'Christians' would be against universal healthcare. Did Jesus charge for healing people? Anyway, I do believe we should have universal healthcare for all. However, although universal basic income is a good idea in theory, I do fear that it will enable more and more folks to just live their lives lying down. Yeah, it's better for us that they don't cause diseases or become trouble makers, but it's not really better for them!

I certainly don't want to see my daughter continue to live at my house as a grown adult and never finding something to do with her life. I also don't need the government subsidizing that kind of lifestyle for her. Of course if I have a disabled or mentally challenged kid or something, then naturally that kind of help is appreciated. A lot of folks might fall in between the cannot and the willnot..., we can just give the benefit of the doubt and assume they're cannots, but we shouldn't assume they're all are cannots. Money given without any incentives such as universal basic income will only harm these folks in the long run because they'll never learn to live life to the fullest.

[dodint]

I'm really warming up to Universal Basic Income as a solution; but only if it comes as a replacement for all current entitlements and it is truly universal. We can cut all the program administration to help fund UBI, but we can't pick and choose entitlements persist. Establish what the acceptable quality of life baseline is and pay the benefit out at that level.

I picture it working a lot like the Military Housing Allowance. Base the QoL amount on zip code so people in SF are not expected to live on a national average amount and people in Des Moines are not overpaid because they choose to live like a dirt farmer.

It also has to be paid to everyone; no limited benefit if you make over a certain threshold. If I want to blow my benefit on Delorean parts I should get to because I've been paying into this mess for decades and under this new plan people won't have to work a day in their life if they're content with the baseline.

[George]

You guys (including Jason, earlier) seem to have missed one word. Let me put it in bold for you.


...in the "gimme-gimme" real world where everyone, rich and poor alike, wants "free" money from the government...


And yet, huge tax cuts to corporations already making record profits isn't seen as a giveaway.

That's exactly what I see it as. Hence, the "rich" in my previous statement. :)

[novicius]

It also has to be paid to everyone; no limited benefit if you make over a certain threshold. If I want to blow my benefit on Delorean parts I should get to because I've been paying into this mess for decades and under this new plan people won't have to work a day in their life if they're content with the baseline.
Inasmuch as I'm pro progressive tax, I'm actually in complete agreement on this.

Get UBI and spend it, don't hoard it. :up:

[21Kid]

Sorry George, I did see that. I guess I was just talking more in general because the "R" talking points always mention that about the left.

I agree with the Dead Brand Ambassador and the one with Bad Taste as far as the Universal base income goes. I think Universal basic health care has to be part of it too though.

[Tom Servo]

And yet, huge tax cuts to corporations already making record profits isn't seen as a giveaway.


That's exactly what I see it as. Hence, the "rich" in my previous statement. :)

It seems to me that 21Kid's point falls under that "it's unfair for us to have to pay for people who don't want to work for themselves.", and that very few people, including a lot of poorer people, see that as a giveaway vs. no longer taking away.

I mean, I agree with the statement wholeheartedly, but I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of Trump supporters who would see that as no longer taking money from successful individuals to pay for freeloading drug addicts and immigrants rather than a giveaway to the rich. I'd say it also follows along the lines of people who got mad at Obama's "you didn't build that" thing. His point being that there's a ton of things (specifically roads and bridges) that other people built that we all paid for together that one relies on to be able to build their business. I know Trump supporters today who literally tell me they've never accepted a cent of tax supported anything in their lives, and can't understand that every time they drive on a road they're doing exactly that.

[Tom Servo]

It's not just about fairness..., but I just don't think we should enable able body folks to continue on that way. Taxpayer help ought to just be helping somebody get back on their feet..., not to sustain and prolong their lying on the ground refusing to get up.

That is essentially the definition of fairness, but I digress. My question is - what do you do with the person who does just refuse to get up? Is it better to let them live on the streets until they die? Is it better to support them enough that they might not be comfortable, but they'll be safe and alive? What are the consequences on other people of each one? If they live on the streets they may end up resorting to crime to stay alive. If they don't have to work, they might just mooch off your tax dollars and do nothing but play games on their Obamaphone.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, it is unfair to the taxpayers. That's the fairness from the perspective of payers... From the receiving end, it's no longer about fairness, but they're getting spoiled. That's more undesirable IMHO.

The only universal income I can agree with is to give them daily their meal allowance, basic clothing, healthcare and housing. Actual money should not be sent to them directly because these type of folks obviously cannot be trusted with managing their own money. They shouldn't be allowed to use the money to buy anything other than basic needs. When these basic needs are met, they really need to be thinking about what they're going to do with their lives.

There's no guarantee UBI will forever solve the crime problem. Spending this tax money on the socially irresponsible for sure won't buy problems away. They only become more irresponsible. UBI should at least come with the condition that you're holding some sort of job. Your McDonald's min wage job along with some sort of UBI supplement ensuring you're making basic living. Need to try to end poverty that way perhaps..., but once you decided to quit and choose to be poor when you're not sick or handicapped, society should respect such choice and not shove money down their throats. If they insist on crime, then I have no problems using tax money to jail such person rather than just handing them the money. Prison is probably more expensive, but it'll be worth it in the long run for both the taxpayer and the freeloader.

[Tom Servo]

UBI should at least come with the condition that you're holding some sort of job.

Again. What do you do if the person just won't work? Assume you have a person who has Universal Basic Income, a safe place to live, enough food to survive, and hasn't committed a crime, but without that government safety net, would likely be on the street and maybe desperate enough to commit a crime to stay alive? Is that better? What if they don't commit a crime, but just panhandle enough to stay alive? Is that better?

That's the crux here. You're saying that you should have a condition that they have a job. What do you do if they don't? In the meantime, having a Universal Basic Income that requires keeping a job is called "Minimum Wage", we already have that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Using your metaphor, safety net...

Safety net is in place to catch people when they fall.

Should people really be on 'safety nets' permanently?

If your healthy reasonably smart adult children just wish to live off of you and play games forever..., yeah, it's certainly nice to allow them the safe environment so that they won't starve or get into trouble. I have nothing against THAT point of your argument. Heck, your adults kids might have a very generous trust fund made available to them! However, my point is that being that NICE won't solve the real problems with people who refuse to get up.

People have to learn to stand on their own feet. Even if you're born missing some limbs, find crutches, wheel chairs, robo-limbs... we don't have to just lay on the net for the rest of our lives. UBI will cause some people to never learn.

People need to learn to aim higher than safety net. Again, nothing against safety nets, just that we can't allow people to stay on it forever. It's just unsafe for everyone.

[Tom Servo]

My point is that there are some people that will refuse to get up, and you *have* to come up with what you'll do in that situation, and just saying "Well, I'll make them get up" isn't an answer. You *will* have people that either can't or won't work.

My position is that it's patently unfair to reward those who won't work, but that it's ultimately better overall to take care of it early and proactively rather than reactively, in that I think it costs more to jail people or clean up homeless encampments and the health issues they cause than it does to just "reward" them for not doing anything. Another position is that it's okay to just let nature take its course with those people. I'm not saying either are right, though I have my position that I think makes more sense.

But you have to pick one. You can't just say "Well, I'll make them." That's not an answer unless you're advocating slave/forced labor. It *sounds* to me like you're saying "If they don't do these things, then let them fall where they may.", which is essentially the republican platform right now (like requiring people to work to get medicaid). It's surprisingly un-Bernie like, at any rate.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, I thought I've already stated that I am for free basic healthcare for all... only condition is that you are sick.

Also, of course I'm not advocating slave labor. I do advocate free will. Likewise, I don't advocate shoving money down lazy people's throats.

We are talking about able body folks who willingly choose to be lazy here, right? With regard to income for those types, let's just agree to disagree. I just think that this helping hand has to have a limit for those type of folks. I'm willing to pay extra, such as prison expenses, in order to help wake those folks up. Of course surely there can also be hippies like Jesus who can manage very well without handouts from Caesar.

We need to help folks make the right choices in life, not all choices for them.

[MR2 Fan]

My brief thought on this is that the main components of these fights are for greed and power...but those ideas are then manipulated into the media and other outlets.

They start claiming there's an ideology difference and pitting us against each other instead of them who are actually pulling the strings.

Edit: so my point is, ideology isn't the problem, it's greed and power

[Tom Servo]

We are talking about able body folks who willingly choose to be lazy here, right? With regard to income for those types, let's just agree to disagree. I just think that this helping hand has to have a limit for those type of folks. I'm willing to pay extra, such as prison expenses, in order to help wake those folks up. Of course surely there can also be hippies like Jesus who can manage very well without handouts from Caesar.

That is a significant element of what we're discussing here. I think you may find you side a lot closer with Paul Ryan than Bernie Sanders on that viewpoint, but that makes it no less valid of a viewpoint. My full appreciation for giving an answer!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Edit: so my point is, ideology isn't the problem, it's greed and power

Greed and power can naturally cause problem, no questions. However, thanks to capitalism, we can turn greed into our advantage for progress. We only have our constitution to try to check and balance powers...

Now, I have to disagree that ideology isn't the problem. It sure can be!

Who made the rule saying that if I'm a Bernie supporter, then I can't ever agree with Paul Ryan?

Bible is pretty clear that we ought to feed the poor(socialistic), but it's also clear that if you don't work, you don't eat(conservative ideology)!

Sometimes it takes both to solve problems, such as poverty, not just one or the other.

We are better together. I am with Mrs Clinton regarding that slogan.

Problem with any specific ideologies is that it's just not holistic enough..., when we become extremists of any specific ideologies, problems can arise. Our extreme polarization for sure is causing us big problems.

[Tom Servo]

I feel like I'm unfamiliar with the part of the bible where Jesus decided not to help someone due to his lack of employment? It has been about 22 years since I last read the bible though, so I might be wrong.

[George]

Was it when He said, "Blessed are the employed, for only they shall obtain healthcare"?

;)

[Fogelhund]

And now good folks, A military parade for your banana republic.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/372634-pentagon-planning-grand-military-parade-for-trump-report

https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157924378236509/

The Pentagon has reportedly begun planning a military parade at the request of President Trump.

Trump repeatedly has expressed an interest in holding a display of America’s military might and upped his calls for a parade after witnessing the Bastille Day celebrations on a trip to France last summer.

The Washington Post reported Tuesday that at a recent meeting between Trump and top military officials, Trump’s wishes were “suddenly heard as a presidential directive.”

“The marching orders were: I want a parade like the one in France,” one military official told The Washington Post on the condition of anonymity. “This is being worked at the highest levels of the military.”

[Tom Servo]

Saying "Love it or leave it"
I'll get beat up if I criticize it
You say you'll fight to the death
To save your useless flag
If you want a banana republic that bad
Why don't you go move to one?


I want to fix that "your message is too short" thing when you quote.

[neanderthal]

I didn't want to touch Georges post with a ten foot pole, because it would seem like i'm the shouty ranting dude.

But, my exact thoughts have been excellently disseminated here by 21Kid and Swervo and Jason.

Our greatest stumbling block is our collective ... inertia, i think that's the word, to implement change. Of course, I blame the Conservatives; if it were up to them we would still be living in the stone ages. I say this because they've literally resisted every. single. progressive. legislation since the beginning of time. Everything from abolishing slavery to child labour to the weekend, forty hour week, civil rights, Obamacare, suffragence etc was championed by liberals. And i'm proud to call myself liberal because of that. The fight remains though; LGBQT rights, reproductive rights, immigrants rights, even religious freedom are all under attack, by, you guessed it CONSERVATIVES. But, i digress (<<that's how I end up looking like the shouty ranting man shaking his fist at the sky.)

We (i hope) know that maintaining our military strength, increasing social spending, spending NOW on infrastructure and education and green tech, and improving the economy and balancing the budget, reducing the deficit, giving universal preK, (p)maternity leave, sick leave and even more vacation time are all good for the economy and NOT mutually exclusive. Even free/ subsidised university or trade school. We can do all those with our current budget, but our budget is directed by people who are elected to represent those who allow them to buy the necessary media exposure that gets them elected. So all our politicians are compromised (don't start billi. Even Bernie!) And we think, rather, we know, it's an immense task to change all that. So we don't bother.

But, if we applied a conscious effort, it could easily be done in one generation. Look at recycling. Yes, it's very simplistic to compare the machinations of the worlds largest economy to recycling but bear with me. Only the fringe left used to recycle. Then it entered the school system. Kids started telling their parents not to throw away the container but to recycle it. Incentives/ motivation were applied. Industries emerged from that, and now we recycle more that we ever have in modern history, and we even consider end of life in the design stage.

I'm not saying we wait for 30 years to get a conversation going about UBI. I'm saying right now we can all call our Congresscritters (in my case Congressman Brad Sherman) and start agitating for ALL THESE things. Not one. We have much greater freedom and ability to share ideas with all the electronic devices and social platforms we have today than at any time in the past.
There was a Democratic caucus in Iowa yesterday and more people showed up even with a snowstorm in effect, than had ever shown up before. That's where we start. At the local level.

I'll get off my soapbox now, but this is something I can go on at length about.

But, ideally, have a funding mechanism in place (unlike Bernies Medicare for All plan) or an idea of how to get it going. but it starts with participating. At more than just "rant online and go vote" levels.

[George]

I didn't want to touch Georges post with a ten foot pole, because it would seem like i'm the shouty ranting dude.

It won't bother me if you do, honest. I enjoy your posts, respect your opinion, and you (all) might be surprised at how much of it I agree with.

That said, I'm not asking for you to reply. Just wanted you to feel free to do as you like...which I guess you did, already. :)

[Fogelhund]

Maybe we can combine Trumps parade, with Pride Parade. Make the tanks so pretty, and have fun.

[G'day Mate]

However, although universal basic income is a good idea in theory, I do fear that it will enable more and more folks to just live their lives lying down ... it's not really better for them!

I dunno the exact ins and outs of your welfare system, but have you considered that somebody on "handouts" might not be motivated to find a job because whatever shitty job they get might be just about the same as their handouts anyway, so what's the point? Universal basic income however would mean that any shitty job they work is extra spending money on top of UBI, so there's a much greater incentive to work and earn.

[tigeraid]

It's the military spending that gets me. It just floors me, I can't wrap my head around dumping more than SEVERAL first world country's GDP-worth of money into one department, while your citizens suffer. If this whole argument was occurring, but you spent what, say, Germany spends on defense or something, or even us, then we could say "okay, this is gonna take some careful budgeting, some real tightening of the purse strings."

But now, as neanderthal says, it's inertia. You entire country is built around the military-industrial complex. It's not millions of dollars, it's BILLIONS. It's not thousands of jobs, it's MILLIONS. There aren't a few isolated outposts around the world, there are hundreds of US Military STRONGHOLDS all over the world. And behind all of it is an industry that feeds off it.

The hoo-rah gung-go "kill dem terrerrrists" mentality may be a relatively new thing, but from a governmental standpoint it's been that way since World War II. It just took that GIGANTIC jump after 9/11. And for every one bought-and-paid-for pundit that says you need to spend that to "protect FREEDOM", there's dozens of analysts saying "come on, slow down, we could literally cut the military in HALF and still dominate the planet." And just imagine what you could do DOMESTICALLY with that half.

The problem is that thanks to special interest groups, thanks to the NRA, thanks to Afghanistan and Iraq and 9/11, and FOX News, the default attitude from a big chunk of the population is pro-military. Pro flex-your-muscles, pro prove-your-might, pro no-price-is-too-high for our freedom. And so it's hard to be optimistic like neanderthal. It might be different if a big chunk of the population was the way it was in the 70s, protesting Vietnam. And even THEN, look how long it took and what kind of a disaster it still was to pull out of there. So how can that sort of sea change be made if a big, vocal portion of the population wants it to stay the way it is?

Can something like The New Deal be done, anymore? Like literally cut half the military spending, and re-assign it to renewable resources, infrastructure, bla bla bla? Is that even possible in the current political climate? I can't imagine the modern Congress ever collaborating on that kind of thing.

[tigeraid]

Also FWIW, our Unemployment Insurance and Welfare programs are FAR from perfect, but they do a decent job of keeping people at least interested in the idea of work. Of the people I've known on Welfare in my life, a grand total of one was a lazy sack of shit who just wanted to live on it the rest of her life. The rest of them were people at the end of their rope, a last gasp, a Hail Mary. The rest used either UI or Welfare as a stepping stone for education into a new career, or into a program that helps support starting a small business (as I did, at one point.)

Maybe it's the "filthy Liberal scum" in me talking, but I have a bit more optimism that, at least in my country's case, social assistance programs provide MOSTLY positive results, provided that healthcare and education are there to support the people in the first place. There are always gonna be freeloaders to take advantage of it, but those can be mitigated, and I agree with others who've said I'd rather use my taxes to pay for those freeloaders to sit in their shitty 1-bedroom apartment and barely have enough to pay for groceries, than to have them on the street with a needle in their arm. Not only that, but of those I've known on welfare around here, none of them were druggies anyway....

[novicius]

What Happened To The Democratic Wave? (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-happened-to-the-democratic-wave/)


micah: Right. I’ll say this, and this is one reason I do think Democrats should be concerned: The last month or so has shown that if Trump tones it down and Republicans get a few good breaks, then the Democratic advantage will shrink — shrink enough so that (even in a midterm year against a president of the opposite party) taking back the House (let alone the Senate) will be a challenge.

That’s the thing, really: Because of self-sorting/gerrymandering and the bad Senate map, a +6 Democratic advantage on the generic ballot isn’t great.

natesilver: A +6 would make Democrats heavy underdogs in the Senate and slight underdogs in the House.
Ain't nothing gonna happen. The people who vote want this government.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Swervo, the exact passage and verse you're looking for is 2 Thessalonians 3:10 (https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/2%20Thessalonians%203%3A10)

G'day, here's a LA times article trying to figure out how and why the rich and liberal California ends up as the poverty capital of America. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-jackson-california-poverty-20180114-story.html

To give some credit, I think CA has the highest poverty rate only after adjusted to standard of living. So our poors are not really the poorest of America..., just that ratio-wise, we're out of whack.

CA state government actually spent a LOT to help the poor, but we end up getting more poor people. I do believe liberal ideology is part of the problem. Will UBI completely eradicate poverty? Sure, in theory, but there's no guarantee that people won't waste their UBI money on iphones or starbucks lattes and then still end up poor.

Giving money away isn't the solution. I do think we need to attach more strings to push people enough so that they get up on their own.

I do agree with you shitty job on top of UBI can certainly be better than shitty job alone, but chances are, if such shitty job pays so little, why bother? Ideally, I'd rather such person focus on education or learning some sort of craft that might interests him so that in the future he could find a much better paying job. UBI is proposed supposedly because of mass automation in the future..., so in the future, we might not have anymore shitty jobs too! But we humans are brainier than robots. We can dream up new jobs. We no longer need everyone working on farms. We no longer need everyone working in factories... shitty jobs will get eliminated. So it's up to every one of us to dream up awesome jobs for the future... rather than just receive handouts. IMHO anyway.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's the military spending that gets me...

I'm actually all for military spending... as long as the money isn't used to actually fight wars. If we ever have to use force, presidents need to learn to keep it short. Hopefully it's a decisive victory... if not, they need to plan out a quick exit strategy. If it's going to be an extended war, then it better be something really worth fighting for like during WWII... otherwise, don't wage such wars!

Anyway, actual war spending is stupid. However, if it's all just posturing or research work, they can be great investments! Military bases can benefit communities greatly. R&D work can also benefit commercial sides as well. Don't forget internet was conceived originally for military applications... way to communicate post nuke war! We also invented rockets first for military applications as well.

Such military spendings, including Kennedy's mission to the moon, can all be considered as high-tech welfare I suppose. However, at least folks are not just sitting there receiving government handouts, but actually working their ass off trying to achieve their missions. Whatever learned during the process can be spun off for other applications. Things like internet or rockets are just not commercially viable for any given private company. Even SpaceX relies heavily on government contracts for now... So don't think badly of all military spending. As long as the money isn't used to kill anybody, I'm actually all for such spending. Of course, we also need to be careful of wasteful spending at times...

[21Kid]

Exactly tigeraid.

Unfortunately, Bernie Sanders was the only one during the last election who talked about reducing military spending.

[George]

Our elected officials should be red in the face and short of breath from arguing against wasteful spending. But they're not.

I heard Senator Cory Gardner of Colorado, a Republican, being interviewed on the radio this morning. The interviewer said something like, "They're saying this military parade could cost $25 million. What do you think about that?

A couple times he said things like "people shouldn't worry about that; we have bigger issues (I hate that word!) to be concerned with". I was practically yelling at my car radio "TWENTY-FIVE MILLION DOLLARS?!"

Hell, I'd be against it if it cost $100. It's completely unnecessary and wasteful.

And then Gardner went on to say something like, "we have bigger issues such as... (exact quote follows) protecting and defending our troops."

Protecting and defending our troops?!

BRING THEM THE *** HOME!

And our president - any president, all presidents - should be standing up and saying, "No. We will not needlessly squander taxpayers' dollars for any reason." Instead, the current scumbag does the opposite.

/slams door on way out of thread

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, I'm with you with regard to military parades. It is quite useless and stupid... I particularly would not like to see our military marching and saluting our dicktator Trump... Yeah, even if Trump pays for it with all of his own money, it's still stupid.

With that said, I do enjoy seeing B-2 stealth bomber flying over the rose parade... or other sort of fly overs during various sports games. Those are just awesome... and worth every penny IMHO. ;)

[dodint]

Excellent, thanks!

I am happy to be wrong once if it makes Ryan wrong twice.

They were published Jan 11. Employers would have had to pick them up immediately and the employee pay period would have to have fallen perfectly for someone to see effective change already. Not impossible but unlikely. Looks like the IRS is mandating/advising employers changeover by Feb 15.

My employer (FedGov) switched to the new tables for next weeks check. My federal withholding fell 19.7% giving me a net increase of 3.6%, or about $130 a month. Enough to cover my electricity bill most months. Or if it's summer, most of a Track Night in America entry fee. ;)

[novicius]

[–]NoRobotYoureTheRobot (https://www.reddit.com/user/NoRobotYoureTheRobot) [score hidden] an hour ago*x2 (https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/gilded)

I was groomed from childhood to be “successful.” I dedicated my life to a bank for 10 years. I look 10 years older than I am, balding, fat. I look tired and dazed. But everyone who worked there behaved that way so I had to so I could fit in. They fired 30,000 people while I was there. After that, they started replacing people with poorly paid consultants who didn’t know anything and rotated in and out every 6 months (you know, the ones they dangle green cards over like a carrot on a stick). They made us pick up the slack. The rest of the jobs got offshored and those who remained were instructed to automate themselves out of their jobs or they’d be fired (lol).

Everyone who worked there had Stockholm Syndrome. During Hurricane Sandy, the entire Northeast was under water and we had a director working from a command center chastising people by phone and email in a Game of Thrones fashion. “Does nobody care about their job? You all wonder why you never get bonuses or promotions! This is why!” Nobody had power. People had to take care of their families. So a girl (not on my team) felt guilted into driving from NY to NJ so she could make the director happy, and she hit a telephone pole on the way there and died.

Women were so, so abused. The men would talk about the girls they fucked, and they passed them around to each other. Indian managers would gang up on Indian women and verbally assault them and call them worthless. I saw Indian women sitting in hallways balling their eyes out. It was so hard to watch and my boss said, “Don’t you fucking dare open that can of worms,” despite hours per year of diversity training. Pssst: None of that is real, they’re just trying to avoid $500 million discrimination lawsuits... shhh... don’t worry, all the executives and middle managers are still white... you can rest easy...

No vacation. Only pussies took vacations. At the end of the year, my boss made me retroactively put in fake vacation time so he could approve it and stay off a list.

All metrics are faked. They tell you what the numbers need to be, those numbers are impossible, they say, “If we don’t get those numbers somebody is going to get fired.” So you lie. The company is falling apart but senior executives on the top of the pyramid scheme use your fake metrics to tell shareholders the company is doing better than ever, and they siphon money to the top for their accomplishments. If anyone outside of the company discovers the metrics are faked, the company gets a slap on the wrist and a senior executive says, “We cannot comment on our internal investigation.” If they’re forced to admit their blatant fraud, they say, “We had a few bad apples. These individuals violated our core values and were immediately terminated.”

I always worked. ALWAYS. There was no separation of work and life. I was on-call always, forever. There were plenty of people who worked harder than me. They never slept.

One guy sat down because he had a headache during a long software release (often we’d be on the phone for about 35 hours straight, sometimes more) and he didn’t wake up. My boss had two heart attacks, my Director had 3 heart attacks. People were constantly working from hospitals.

One day they decided (after initially pushing us in the opposite direction) to get rid of their work-from-home program. They wanted me to move to some suburb 1,000 miles away that they opened specifically to replace people like me with cheaper labor.

I told them no and they laid me off a week later, after giving my life to them.

Putting my job first was the absolute dumbest thing I’ve ever done. My mom was dying in the hospital and I couldn’t be there. I could never go to valentines dinner or weddings or funerals. One time I had surgery and was wearing a gown with my ass sticking out and I told the surgeons, “Hold on, I have to get on a call.” Most recently, I had a trip planned to visit my wife’s dying grandmother who was trying to stay alive just to see her one more time and my boss called me (on a Sunday, knowing I was leaving town) and made me handle a production issue. I missed the flight. We went to the airport 3 hours late and they told us we had to buy new tickets for $1,500 each (which was 5 times what they had originally cost). We couldn’t leave however until the next day so she went back to bed crying and having a mental breakdown and I went to work. Her grandmother died without seeing her the next day and I got laid off the next day. She has never forgiven me.

That is work life in America, and I’m certain that was a best-case scenario because at least I was paid well. Now I am still unemployed after 9 months.

I decided that I will never, ever buy into the Corporate Kool-Aid again. I refuse to spend anymore time behaving like this. And it is the standard here. What’s the first thing everyone asks you in the US? “So what do you do for a living?”

I have been on a crusade to make my own path, and companies have been putting me through so many hoops. I did four rounds of interviews with a company recently interviewing with a total of 16 people. They never called me back. You’re so worthless they never call you back. They treat you like shit at interviews because Americans have been hoodwinked into thinking abuse is acceptable. Toxic country.

I think they can tell that I’m not afraid of them anymore. I’d rather work at a smoothie shop around nice people than make six figures around fucking psychopaths, and they are absolutely so full of themselves at higher levels they think they deserve to choke you to death with their bare hands.

I did an interview recently and the guy said, “Well we have a lot of people here who can be difficult, you know, a lot of people in IT can have egos.”

And I said, “Egos? Egos for what? For fixing computers? For having a sphere of control over a single hallway in a world that has billions of people? Is it because they think they are smart? Because if they are so smart, why don’t they own a company instead of working for one?”

The guy thought it was funny but he seemed like a fuse blew, like what I was saying did not compute.

My career is now everything I do outside of work.

Fuck corporate culture, and fuck these politicians who have sold us out and left us out to dry. Fuck Republicans for making corporate feudalism the norm. Fuck all the yokels who would give their lives to sustain their own abuse as long as they still get to pat themselves on their backs and say, “At least I’m not black.” Fuck a country where people die in the streets but McDonald’s can afford $1 billion per year in marketing, Apple is considered a sacred institution, and the “Jeff Bezos in his office” meme is spread around suggesting anyone can become the next Amazon if they just work hard enough.

A quick story about hard work. My dad worked 100 hour weeks for 30 years. He was a roofer. He worked at the same company that entire time. He got cancer probably from exposure to asbestos and the sun. He couldn’t work, and they let it slide for a month but then he got laid off. He lost his health insurance. His cancer was caught early and was treatable but with no insurance he couldn’t get treatments, so he slowly withered away and died, but not before herbalists, churches, and snake-oil salesmen got their cut. We found out that the company had screwed up his life insurance paperwork so we got nothing.

Fuck a country where both of my parents died from treatable diseases because they didn’t have health insurance. Bonus: my mom died because she refused to get Obamacare because talk radio and her dopey Tea Party friends turned her from being the sweetest woman I ever knew into a hateful maniac who spent 24/7 talking about how Obama was the antichrist. She thought if she signed up for Obamacare that Federal agents would storm her door and put her into a FEMA death camp.

Fuck a country where my wife is a doctor and our health insurance is so shitty I don’t even use it because we never meet our deductible. If our country doesn’t even care about doctors, just imagine how little value your life has.

Honestly, having visited quite a few poor countries, they seem a fuckload happier than people in this goddamn country. At least they don’t die (if their country has universal healthcare) when they get sick. At least the hospital doesn’t attempt to take their mom’s house when she dies there and you spend $4,000 to get a lawyer to fight to save it.

Hey, at least the food is good.

My advice to anyone who hasn’t fallen into that trap yet: live simply, live inexpensively. If you can support yourself with a job at McDonald’s, you are in complete control in the US. Nobody can turn you into a serf. And if you do get a corporate six-figure job, you know you can walk out at any moment and support yourself doing dishes. Fuck nice cars and houses. If you have to do that shit to impress your friends, those friends will abandon you at some point. I made these mistakes and I can never get that time back. If wearing suits and Audemars Piguet 15400 and driving an S550 are your dreams, you are fucking up big time. All that shit is just a mental buffer to distract you from your miserable life by convincing yourself you’re successful. Successful people are the ones who think this behavior is insane.

Oh yeah, if you think you can avoid this through education, I’ll gladly show you my wife’s $300,000 in student loan debt and my $95,000, which we will pay until we die.
Daaamn (https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7wcy8u/the_economic_outlook_for_millennials_is_bleak_now/). :snap: #micdrop

[Tom Servo]

There's a lot of that that reminds me of Michele's last software engineering job which, coincidentally, was for a financial firm. I'm grateful that only MySpace (post NewsCorp acquisition) had a culture even approaching that, but nothing I've dealt with has been all that bad.

Reminds me a lot of this DK song.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUpidCc7wwY

[novicius]

I've made my sad little paychecks by taking jobs for companies who offer 36.5-hour work-weeks, flex schedules and no after hours/take home work my whole life.

Time-off is always king in my book. :cool:

[Cam]

Damn, a poignant tirade. :eek:

I vowed to never sacrifice my health and happiness for work.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Isn't McDonald's also another corporation? Why should anyone give up 6 figures working for one corporation and then accept minimum wage job from another?

I'm assuming the roofing company his dad worked at for decades is probably not a big US corporation, but they still fucked him!

So the problem is probably not just with the corporations.

Wherever you're at, if the work culture sucks, if you were misled during the interview process, by all means quit.

If the story is real, I feel for the guy..., but somehow I feel like the guy is just not making very much sense. After bitch and whine about mom and dad had no health insurance for one reason or another..., he's also claiming that he and his doc wife have only shitty insurance and they don't use it because they can never reach deductible... and earlier in his rant, he did have surgery though. What's he talking about?

Anyway, rather than blaming everybody else, I think the moral of the story is that we just need to make better life choices. Careers should never be 1st on our priority list. If you are mainly living for your careers, you'll regret it. There's way too much in life to just focus on working for money.

[Tom Servo]

It is honestly bizarre how much you love Bernie Sanders given that almost always seem to advocate for the exact opposite from his policies.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't understand how you can derive your conclusions based on what I said... which of his policies was I opposing?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ivanka Trump pushing liberal agendas, but no Democrats willing to work with her. Claiming that she's not pushing far enough, so they won't have their support.

http://www.newsweek.com/ivanka-trump-seeks-republican-support-after-democrats-ditch-her-801845

Maybe she has the same problem I have. I claim that I love Bernie Sanders, but people keep on thinking that I'm a Paul Ryan supporter.

[Tom Servo]

I encourage you to contact Sanders and ask his opinions on work requirements for government assistance or healthcare, or the rights of workers vs. corporations. See if they align with yours.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Can you just answer my question?


I don't understand how you can derive your conclusions based on what I said... which of his policies was I opposing?

Obviously you saw something I wrote that doesn't jive with Sanders. Just wondering what you saw. Was my English that bad or perhaps you're reading between the lines? I'd just like to sort that out first before I contact Bernie Sanders.

I personally find it amazing that you guys (Neanderthal) can first attack Sanders for not being who he really is... claiming that he's no better than Hillary and possibly worse.... and then go further to attack his supporters for not being who they really are... that I probably belong more to the deplorican party.

Look, I'm Billi and I support Bernie Sanders... and I think I'm leaning more to the liberal side, but also hold some conservative values. I don't fit in any particular ideology really. I don't find Republicans to be completely disagreeable and I also don't find democrats to be completely agreeable. There's really no need to take 'sides'. The most important thing should be solving fucking problems. Not just take sides and then blame the other side. Both parties are horrible at this. Even most American people have started to take sides and wouldn't mind seeing fellow Americans on the other side to just go to hell. Fucking sad really.

[Tom Servo]

Bernie Sanders has traditionally been in support of worker's rights over that of corporations, and that corporations are let off far too easily by the government. Your post appears to be saying that this worker is just complaining and he should just find another job. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it, but that's definitely how I read it. As is, his own website makes it pretty clear that he's in favor of regulation that would prevent the treatment of employees that that post describes: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-workers-rights/

Your stance on most issues that have come up in recent memory tends to stand in direct opposition to his, so I do find it bizarre that you're such a huge supporter of his. He'd clearly not be on the side of "just find another job if you don't like it." He calls healthcare a human right, so one assumes he doesn't then add on a work requirement. It's not an attack, I honestly just don't understand it.

[sandydandy]

Daaamn (https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7wcy8u/the_economic_outlook_for_millennials_is_bleak_now/). :snap: #micdrop For real.

And here I thought my work-life balance was severely out of whack.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What's the point of regulation when a corporation blatantly forge numbers and force employees to sign off on it? Even for employees' own vacations which he didn't take and end up pretending that he did!

Not totally against regulations, but when this happens, what can regulations do? Was the author really complaining about lack of regulations?

Given that Bernie doesn't hold a steady gig prior to becoming a politician, how do you know he's not the type who'd quit a job until he finds one that he likes?

You don't understand because you have preconceived notions for people. People don't always have to always fit certain ideologies.

[Tom Servo]

You're right. Let 'em do whatever they want.

The author was complaining about things that regulation should help with. Industry used to be a lot like this before we started regulating it.

Bernie literally supports regulation. It doesn't matter if he's the type or not to quit a job until he finds one that he likes.

I don't understand because I have the preconceived notion that people should support the candidate that has policies that align with that person's idea of how the government should be run. Call me crazy, I guess.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No I'm the crazy one of course. It's just that I don't understand why encouraging folks to quit working for BS bosses are being viewed as anti-regulations.

Surely we already have regulations in place for accurate accounting. We also have regulations for min # of vacation days. If you and your boss colluded to by pass these regulations..., what can regulations do?

Of course eventually your company will collapse and your health will also likely collapse...

Should we just rely on more regulations to save us or should we just try to do the right things in the first place?

Quit working for asshole bosses. It's not that hard and it has nothing to do with regulations nor your political ideology.

[Tom Servo]

It's not. You didn't encourage someone to quit working for a BS boss, you're blaming him for the fact that his company mistreats not only him, but others. Saying he doesn't make much sense, that he's bitching and whining. Assuming he has other, better options. A lot of people don't. My wife did because I had a good job and could support her while she completely changed careers, she would likely not have felt like it was a possibility to leave an abusive company if that weren't the case.

I can't tell if you're saying that regulations don't matter because people can try to sneak by anyway. Regulations do matter. It's why we can have unions, why we have 40 hour workweeks, why we have weekends, why we have sick leave, why we have vacation leave. The point of that above post is that the government is mostly looking the other way at this point, especially now with a pro-business administration that, even now, is talking about removing restrictions on employers from taking servers' tips.

It sounds to me like you're not encouraging people, you're blaming them for the wrongs of others, others who have power over them.

To get back to the point, you're basically arguing a Libertarian viewpoint. Regulations don't matter, everyone for themselves, which, again, is about as far from Bernie as you can get.

Either way, I've made my point, so that's it from me on that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

My point is that you are reading more than what I have actually written.

Essay wasn't about lack of regulations. I also wasn't advocating deregulation. Author himself was also advocating quitting toxic corporate cultures... I just don't understand why we should trust McDonald's so much? Min wage can exchange for better healthcare and more vacations? Look, even you agree US corporate culture isn't ALL that bad, right?

Anyway, If you want to talk regulations, it's not really just about whether one is pro or against. Naturally democrats can be right that without regulations, companies will fuck things up badly. However republicans can also be right that too much regulations can be stifling! SpaceX's new capsule has given up the idea of rocket landing because of cost prohibitive regulations. I'm sure NASA has astronauts' safety in mind when they came up with those regulations, but it does kinda suck that they have to quit something not out of technical issues, but a regulatory one. I really think it's pointless to just be for or against regulations. We need just enough regulations to make sure shit won't happen and not so much to be too stifling...

Look, I think our society has plenty enough anger to go around... partly because we're all fucked by somebody one way or another. I believe the sole reason why I love Bernie so much is because he's the only person properly channeling our frustrations for the greater good... whereas everyone else mostly just want you to be angry at your political oppositions..., Mexicans, Russians, white folks, black folks...

I'm a Christian and I support an atheistic Bernie instead of Hillary or Trump. Is it really that hard to understand?

[mk]

The question becomes whether you allow that and spend taxpayer money to support those people or you demand personal responsibility and feel that it's unfair that you have to pay so someone else can do nothing.

I think you're out of the loop.
That question is already a history.

Today's question is what to do with those who have nothing to do.
Some of us are going to be around for quite some time.

I've been fiddling these things since eighties and during this time things have changed quite a bit and practically without any real AI.
One major thing being a shift from centralised to distributed (clercs to customers) data collection.
Like few decades ago I had to personally visit practically every place to get any non mundane thing forward.

Now we are seeing the beginning of the next step as artificial speak.
It's still quite clumsy but AI is learning fast.
Machine delivered food is also knocking.

Robots repairing robots is still quite far but much closer than many think.
Oldest to die around now were already adults before WWII so nowadays world will really change in a life time.

I think first world migration to countryside is closer to decades than generations ahead.
My guess is that VR will really remove the need to be present and machines are not needed to be supervised.

One question though, are people going to vote against technology.

[Tom Servo]

I thought it was reasonably obvious that I was saying that as "the question that separates the two parties on this subject", but I guess not.

[neanderthal]

Billis inconsistency in his debate structure and inability to remember his own points/ stance/ positions reminds me a lot of the bots on twitter.

I'm revelling in my ignoring him again. Good courage to you Swervo.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I really think my supposed inconsistencies were caused by you guys reading between the lines too much. If you guys just can't read my text for what it is, yes, please do ignore.

Regarding mk's question, of course there will be folks voting against technology just as folks voting against globalization now. However, what is inevitable will prevail. UBI will also likely become an inevitability. So the quest will become how will most humans find meaning in their seemingly 'useless' existence... we need to stop defining ourselves by what we do for a living.

Swervo, in case you can still see this, you really need to try to stop breaking down problems as if the world can only have 2 party solutions...

[Tom Servo]

Can I get an example of doing that? Personally, I think the concept of "figure out what policies you think are correct and then vote for the person that will enact those policies" sounds unlike that, but I could be wrong.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Let's stick with regulations as example. We all know dems want more and reps want less.

Common sense tells us we can't have too much overbearing regulations nor should we trust giant corporations to always do the right thing by deregulation. Both parties will push the nation off of different cliffs. Only by truly working together can we get it right. Sticking with the approach of either what would democrats do or what would republicans do can only end badly.

Assuming Bernie isn't full of shit like Neanderthal claims, I believe he has the common sense and integrity to actually do what Jesus would do, even if he's an atheist. Put in other words, I believe he'll do the right things and not get too involved with partisan politics.

I believe he's a real problem solver. It's not just specific policies he's advocating which caused me to like him.

Just like who gives a fuck if Wells Fargo is pro-gay rights. Who cares if a store builds bunch of transgender bathrooms? Doesn't mean they won't fuck people in other ways. Similarly, just because somebody is a Christian, doesn't mean I should trust him to lead a nation or babysit my kid.

I'd rather vote for the better candidate rather than sticking with bs politicians sticking with their bs policies as if their party is the only God and other parties are all deplorable satans..

[Tom Servo]

That's all well and good, but should I take that as you don't have an example of me doing that?

[neanderthal]

That's all well and good, but should I take that as you don't have an example of me doing that?

Keep asking him.

I axed him the same damn question over and over and over again before the elections and he kept dodging it. I musta asked him thirty or more times. I'm sure your remember.
And he really does do the thing where he puts words in your mouth but says you're the one doing so. It's like his go to debate pattern.

Give us examples billi. Where did Swervo insinuate there is only a binary (political) solution for anything? Coz that's what you just said he did.
I guess i'm not doing the ignore billi thing very well.

:angry:

[Crazed_Insanity]

I thought it was reasonably obvious that I was saying that as "the question that separates the two parties on this subject", but I guess not.
I thought it was obvious to you that's what you were doing. Guess not.

Responding to my commentary as if I'm bent on deregulating corporate America is another recent example. As if there are only 2 ways of doing things. Liberal or conservative. Why can't we take up personal responsibility to self regulate? Don't do unethical shit that bosses force on us? Encourage folks to be brave is promoting deregulation? Where did you get that if you're not stuck in the binary liberal or conservative mindset?

Anyway, if I'm just not understanding what you were asking, it'd be nice if you can clarify further... I realize sometimes I do have comprehension issues too...

[Tom Servo]

I realize this may be the language barrier thing you're talking about, but I legitimately do not know how to parse that first sentence. I mean...yeah, it's obvious to me that I'm doing what I'm doing. I think you can say that about almost any person at almost any time, barring something like dementia or an altered mental state. I, as a general rule, am aware of what I'm doing and it's obvious to me that I'm doing it.

I responded to your commentary that way because you claimed that he wasn't making much sense and that he was "bitching and whining." Not that the employer had done anything wrong, but that it was his fault, and presumably also his co-workers' faults as well that were going through the same thing. Not that something should be done to protect workers' rights, but that it's his fault for not finding something else. My point then is that Bernie's response would generally be one on the side of workers' rights, that we need to protect the American worker and crack down on corporations. Also that some employees, possibly including the one in question, might not have any other real options, as I attempted to relate with my wife's situation.

Yes. He could find another job. But I'll remind you of your words. You said that he wasn't making much sense. You claimed he was "bitching and whining." That he didn't make good life choices. It was his fault.

I don't think you're "bent on deregulating", and I'll ask you where I said that. I do think that your stance on it is markedly different than Bernie Sanders' viewpoint on that, which was my point. Your stance on actual issues (when we can get you to actually give a stance rather than just dance around it with vague terms) has lately been not-aligned with Sanders, which made me wonder why you so vociferously support him. Even your answer about that basically came down to "I trust that he'll do things the way I want", even when doing so would go against his stated platform from his own campaign. I can't say that that's wrong or that you can't do that, you can do what you want. I just don't personally understand it.

If it means anything, on one hand I thought your viewpoint was more like Paul Ryan's, on another it was more like Rand Paul's, so I'm at least at 3 ways of doing things. So there. :P

[MR2 Fan]

I think we should have a separate "Billi vs everyone else" thread

[Tom Servo]

Hah, yeah, probably. I'll try to be good for a while. At least I was good about not quoting him.

[IMOA]

I think these threads would go a lot easier if people didn’t keep trying to wilfully misrepresent what billi was saying and left the really lame schoolyard bullying for the schoolyard. For a group of people who like to claim the moral high ground you’ve been acting very poorly.

[Tom Servo]

I don't feel like I've done that, certainly not willfully. I don't want to do that, and if you feel like I have, I'd like to know how.

[Crazed_Insanity]

because you claimed that he wasn't making much sense and that he was "bitching and whining." Not that the employer had done anything wrong, but that it was his fault...

Bold text, for example, is possibly a willful misrepresentation..., something I never said. I see it as you reading between the lines. You assumed since I blamed the employee, I must then think the unethical employer as innocent.

Is this willful or accidental?

Do you really believe that we cannot blame both the employee and the employer when a corporation commit unethical behaviors?

[novicius]

I don't know what you guys are talking about but the GOP's plan to blow the deficit up makes me laugh my ass off. :lol:

(Yes, yes, this is all part of their long-term plan to kill Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security, got it -- still hilarious!)

[mk]

How self sufficient you can be?

Hyperinflation is only for imports as your loans are all dollars, I suppose.

[SportWagon]

Today's question is what to do with those who have nothing to do.
Some of us are going to be around for quite some time.

I was thinking about this, and in the future presumably, as an ultimate result of extensive automation, more people will be forced to be criminals, and as a response more money will need to be spent on law enforcement and crime prevention, but whether that will mean more people will end up employed in the law enforcement sector is unclear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_unemployment

Not sure how long it will be before that article gets a whole lot of "non-encyclopedic" tags.


Tangential to this I came upon the device "Breaking Wheel", and the true origin and original meaning of the phrase "coups de grâce". After reading, I thought that most would think that at my age none of that should be new information to me. A sheltered life, I guess. You can Google too. Well, actually you can't. You can search the web using the Google-brand search engine.

[Fogelhund]

Today's question is what to do with those who have nothing to do.
Some of us are going to be around for quite some time.


This is a legitimate issue going forward, that without a plan in advance, will be a big problem.

How far away from self-driving cars are we?

In the US, you are looking at the elimination of some 3.5 million Truck driver jobs. 250,000 taxi drivers.

That's not to mention retail jobs, factory jobs... and so on.

The current wealth gap is going to continue, and only widen... substantially. Perhaps legislators can kick the can down the road a few more times, but I think we are headed to a 1920's style depression in the next two decades.

[SportWagon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_States states 233,900 cab drivers. April 4, 2017, if I read correctly. I.e. the same as what you say.

That sounds surprisingly small. Less than 1 in 1000 people is a taxi driver?

Well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_Kingdom says 298,000 cab drivers in the UK, if I read correctly. Minimum 134,000. But I think the remaining licenses for "private hire" vehicles are essentially taxi drivers. For a country of 1/4 the population.

Which suggests in the U.S. private cars are used in lots of situations where taxis would be used in the UK.

Hmm. Seems somewhat political.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Technology has always managed to eliminate traditional jobs in the past... such as farm jobs... and factory jobs... surely more jobs to follow.

However, humanity has always managed to create jobs in new fields. Do you think back when most labor force were farmers ever dreamed of computer related jobs?

I still believe solution to narrow the gap between the rich and poor isn't to just give money away to the poor.

People need to learn to how to make a living and learn how to manage their own resources.

I do believe some sort of UBI may perhaps be inevitable..., however, there must be more than UBI for our society to function healthily.

Imagine in the Star Trek universe... do you think there are folks on board the Enterprise just sitting around in the holodeck enjoying themselves and collect their UBI and do absolutely nothing because everything is automated? Will Capt. Picard allow this kind of behavior to continue unimpeded on his ship? I don't think so.

So in the future, when we no longer have poverty in our society, perhaps we'll no longer be earning money, but earning respect or some other sort of performance metric... Surely not everyone will be Captain Picard, but you can't remain a Lt. Barkley forever. We need to figure out other ways to unlock people's unique potentials.

To simply assume that some folks will be totally useless when we have automation is underestimating human ingenuity. We can throw money to solve problems, but we'll never solve problems just by throwing money at people.

[Fogelhund]

For once I look at a Billi post, and don't completely disagree... I think a UBI is going to be the future. But, it's going to come at a price, I'd think. Work for the City, State, Province, Feds.... cleanup highways, streets... wherever labour is needed. Maybe for farms etc... But make it mostly contingent upon working somewhere. A subsidy to low income jobs perhaps??

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow. Unbelievable. ;)

However, I think you're missing one important point I was trying to make... I don't mean we should FORCE people to perform shitty jobs to collect UBI, but I mean a system needs to be in place to incentivize them to help unlock their true potential! Surely we'll have robots cleaning the streets by then! No laborers will be needed! People need to be creative, that's something robots currently cannot do... not until we have true AI anyway... :p

1st allocated UBI budget really should go to free education and healthcare. Until we have free education and healthcare for all, giving money away freely will be a very unwise use of money.

[MR2 Fan]

Two problems I see:

1.) as with MANY things right now, it isn't about it being new and not happening before, it's the pace of the change happening.

2.) our governments seem to be not only completely dis-interested in this issue, they actively don't want to deal with it as they're too busy being paid off.

[Kchrpm]

Oops: https://www.apnews.com/7511e7654b2f476489be235327843280

[Jason]

I don't know why we're supposed to care about an affair. Well, other than maybe using campaign finances illegally.

[Kchrpm]

I don't think we care that much or are surprised about it. It shows the potential for the Russian honey pot stories to be true, but that's about it. Most of his detractors probably assumed/expected/aren't surprised by this info.

However it's another stone on the pile of him being a horrible representative for the family values, Conservative, Christian right that has tried so hard to stand by him. Maybe during future election cycles some small percentage of that group will change their mind and decide not to just blindly vote for the person he endorses.

[tigeraid]

However it's another stone on the pile of him being a horrible representative for the family values, Conservative, Christian right that has tried so hard to stand by him.

This. Right up there with all the gay Republicans soliciting sex in bathrooms. That sort of thing.

[Jason]

Yeah, that never matters. Man isn't perfect, god forgives, etc. As long as you're a Republican.

[Kchrpm]

It got Roy Moore beat, but not by a ton, and he was much worse, so point taken

[drew]

At the end of the day, his core supporters will high-five each other because he was banging a Bride-in-a-Box and a porn star. Because that's what every man aspires to.


So, nothing.


I wonder if he took the viagra, or just made his dick hard by shoving the pills up his dickhole. not that curious, but curious.

I wonder if piss was involved.

[G'day Mate]

Meh. :popcorn:

[MR2 Fan]

At the end of the day, his core supporters will high-five each other because he was banging a Bride-in-a-Box and a porn star. Because that's what every man aspires to.


So, nothing.


I wonder if he took the viagra, or just made his dick hard by shoving the pills up his dickhole. not that curious, but curious.

I wonder if piss was involved.

Agreed, I watch TYT on youtube sometimes and Cenk, the host, said that his followers love him because he acts like an Alpha Male, and that attracts them (being the animals they are, it makes sense)

[FaultyMario]

Harvey Weinstein had a group of employees dedicated to preparing him for his coerced sex sessions; they injected the viagra.

[FaultyMario]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNwzxPpRVoA

Go to 3:30 to see a young fashion blogging girl school talking heads about simplistic narratives.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The girl knows what she's talking about.

She's very good at thinking on her feet when dumped with a stupid nuclear weapon question by the reporter...

[Tom Servo]

Details of Trump's affair with Karen McDougal. Again, I doubt this will do much of anything to change his supporters' opinions, including evangelicals.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/donald-trump-a-playboy-model-and-a-system-for-concealing-infidelity-national-enquirer-karen-mcdougal

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bill Clinton can have affairs in the oval office and nothing much came out of that.

If there's enough support after that pussy grabbing incident to get him elected, surely none of these stories will matter.

These girls are not part of the me too movement. Just bunch of gold-diggers. I'm not sure why I should trust them more than the pussy grabber himself.

There's really no respect for the presidency anymore. Even the presidents themselves disgraced their own office at times. Sad times.

We just need a story from Mueller that can really get rid of Trump. All other stories I'm really no longer interested. We know what kind of president we have already.

[Tom Servo]

Mueller brings indictments against 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for interference with the 2016 presidential election:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics/mueller-russia-indictments-election-interference/index.html

[dodint]

This is in the indictment:


Russians, posing as Americans, paid an American to build a prison cage for a pickup and another person to dress as Hillary and get in the cage as they drove around to campaign events.

I shouldn't, honestly, but I'm just going to laugh.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

[Crazed_Insanity]

Great. So we know Russians meddled, but can't prove Trump colluded?

Guess we'll still be stuck with Trump for now?

[Yw-slayer]

This is in the indictment:

That's Borat-level territory.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's interesting investigation also revealed Russians helped Sanders and stein, why didn't they help Johnson?

It does make one wonder whether Sanders campaign was really as on fire as originally thought... was it really artificially created by the Russians?

Still, Russian tactic seemed pretty lame. Sanders lost the primary and stein finished behind Johnson.

Trump only won thanks to our own FBI director fucking with Hillary days before election.

What a mess. Anyway, looks like at least 4 more years of trump.

[G'day Mate]

What, that's it?

[Crazed_Insanity]

At least we proved Russians meddling isn't fake news, just not very newsworthy... so I guess it's not a complete waste of taxpayer money.

Anyway, I still think the biggest meddler of them all was the FBI.

Hope they can come up with solutions to prevent meddling in future elections...

I think at the very minimum, candidates should not be allowed to run if currently under investigations or have pending law suits. This way we could've avoided both Hillary and Trump altogether.

[Tom Servo]

What, that's it?

Assuming you're referring to the indictments, it's likely not. As far as I'm aware, the investigation is continuing (heck, they even just made it public that there's another person cooperating after copping a plea deal), this is just the round of indictments that they decided to make at this time for whatever reason. That said, it's also possible that this is it and the investigation is done, but I think that's unlikely. My guess is that it's done to apply pressure in the hopes that more people end up cooperating in exchange for leniency, but so far Mueller's played pretty much everything really close to his chest, so who knows.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hope you're right because otherwise it's very disappointing...

[Tom Servo]

As is, Rosenstein seemed very careful to keep saying "this indictment" when saying things about the case.

[G'day Mate]

And further indictments could still include charges of collusion against people close to Trump, if not Trump himself?

[Tom Servo]

That's the thing. Mueller has played everything very close to his chest and only released info presumably when he thinks it's advantageous to do so. So yeah, it could, but it also might not. What seems reasonable to assume is that whatever he issues an indictment for will be as meticulously documented, as that appears to be his style. Otherwise, I assume that if he doesn't find ironclad evidence of collusion, he won't indict based on that.

Despite what dear leader says, everything in this guy's past and the way people talk about him make him sound like a solid investigator and not someone to put forth charges on spurious evidence. I assume we won't hear anything until the very end of the investigation except for anything that he thinks might be advantageous to let out to try to get closer to the truth. Until the day he says the investigation is over, any talk of any sort of vindication is premature.

[drew]

That's how I interpreted this. It's not the" End", but more of a teaser. I presume there are many, many more things to come along. This was just a Mueller chess move for DJT to suss out his reaction (which was wholly predictable).

The fact that "this" indictment mentions "persons known and unknown to the grand jury", leads me to believe the shit is still gaining momentum downhill.

Since it didn't specifically call out "collusion", he (and Fox) started the predictable rah-rah that it exonerates Trump.

Because people are fucking stupid.

I'm also guessing this release was in direct response to the "Nunes" turd last week.

This is far from over.

[FaultyMario]

How this shitstorm not Makes American Ineffectual Again is beyond me.

The investigator has been cornered into the impossible task of having to present a robust case for offenses than make impeachment not only viable but politically innocuous to both parties, he won't deliver that and the ensuing defense/blame defection leads to a deeper constitutional crisis. This all stems from the unchecked powers of lobbying, ethical and otherwise, having gone way too deep into the branches of government.

[FaultyMario]

I think the crux of it is money in politics, and how it has been regulated in the U.S.

Sure, DJT as a businessman has been a money laundering agent for illegal entities but since becoming a campaigning politician he's been receiving legal monies from lobbying groups that operate in grey areas of campaign finance, so a lot of the opposition to Mueller's fact finding mission comes from people who might no be doing illegal things but are certainly in the ethical tight rope.

Are the DeVos' criminals? That depends on how a judge interprets the facts that will hopefully be presented.

This whole mess could have been avoided if campaign finance reform had been found to be a conflict of interests for the legislative and a compromise had been reached between the other parts of the republic.

[drew]

The Devos's may/may not be criminals, but they're certainly huge pieces of shit.

Money is the number one problem with our "system". I'm not sure how pay to play is "Democracy" (hint, it's not).

Until someone is able to limit campaign length, and more importantly, funding, this shit will just keep going on forever.

2 months, $500,000.

No lobbies, no superpacs, none of that fucking shit. Most of the people that run, have money. If they truly want to run, they can do it with either their own money or fuck off.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If only the rich with their own money can run, how will that prevent the next trump?

Hopefully in the after math, we can once and for all define what 'meddling' really is so that we can not only prevent Russians from doing it, but all unethical folks as well.

For now, I'm pretty disappointed by mueller...

[G'day Mate]

I see that Trump is blaming the FBI for letting the Florida shooting happen. Apparently "They are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign"

[Tom Servo]

Hey, those 17 people killed weren't the victims, he is.

[TheBenior]

Well, it's not like the FBI is a national organization with 35k employees capable of focusing on more than one thing.

[Jason]

Trump/Republicans don't care about that. The message will be yet another way to delegitimize the FBI and the investigation.

[FaultyMario]

Hey, those 17 people killed weren't the victims, he is.

Teenagers.

[Tom Servo]

I'm trying to figure out if this is the dumbest thing he's tweeted yet or not.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWkQn5rVwAI6QSL.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

He is so stupid. It is beyond belief how dumb he is.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You guys are torturing yourselves.

Besides Gen. Kelly, supposedly even other US officials are urging world leaders to ignore Trump's tweets.

It really doesn't matter which one of his tweets is the dumbest.

In a way, this is kinda cool that foreign nations now have no clear way of figuring out US intentions and what will it do... Trump tweets will render their intelligence agencies useless... :lol:

Well, maybe only Russians know the true intentions of Trump....

[neanderthal]

You guys are torturing yourselves.

Besides Gen. Kelly, supposedly even other US officials are urging world leaders to ignore Trump's tweets.

It really doesn't matter which one of his tweets is the dumbest.

In a way, this is kinda cool that foreign nations now have no clear way of figuring out US intentions and what will it do... Trump tweets will render their intelligence agencies useless... :lol:

Well, maybe only Russians know the true intentions of Trump....

Dollar has lost value. Thousands of people laid off. Tariffs may be imposed on some industries in retaliation for Trumps actions. Deficit blowing up. Middle class getting squeezed. Our position in the world compromised. Actually we're becoming a laughing stock. Environment getting harmed. Etc etc etc.


I'm curious why it's funny/ amusing to you.

But i'm not that curious. Don't respond.

[Tom Servo]

Rubio scores own goal.


https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/966500059499069442

[G'day Mate]

:lol:

[2ndMoparMan]

Those kids made Rubio look like a complete moron. I love them.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dollar has lost value. Thousands of people laid off. Tariffs may be imposed on some industries in retaliation for Trumps actions. Deficit blowing up. Middle class getting squeezed. Our position in the world compromised. Actually we're becoming a laughing stock. Environment getting harmed. Etc etc etc.


I'm curious why it's funny/ amusing to you.
I don't think I was saying that I found those particular things amusing...


But i'm not that curious. Don't respond.
Oh, okay, I won't respond then.

Aren't you tired of this shit dude?

Have some self control please and stop reading my post and stop responding. People will thank you.

[Tom Servo]

A new favorite:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWo8dU-UQAAEUl2.jpg

"I didn't say give teachers guns. That's fake news. I said give guns to teachers."

[FaultyMario]

Take the smartphone away from him already!

Next POTUS is going to have a mountain to climb in terms of proving the office is still relevant.

[neanderthal]

I don't think I was saying that I found those particular things amusing...


Oh, okay, I won't respond then.

Aren't you tired of this shit dude?

Have some self control please and stop reading my post and stop responding. People will thank you.


Unspoilered part: So you're saying you know you're tedious and tiresome, and yet you continue to publish the pablum that gets you ignored by quite a few here. And your question right before that is "aren't you tired of this shit?" You're imploring me to have some self control while you

Spoilered part: continue to glory in the misfortune and mishap mayhem* being perpetuated by Trump and his administration. These things have exponentially gotten worse under Trump. Things things have really come to the fore since the advent of Trump ('s presidency.) And you've said, in the post above that I quoted that
"it doesn't matter which one of his tweets is the dumbest." whilst also posting a smiley face after quipping that
"foreign nations have no way of figuring out US intentions." It begs the question; do you understand economics? Foreign relations? Diplomacy? Leadership? Basic human fucking decency?

Because predictability is a key factor in driving economic success. Good foreign policy. Diplomacy that works for all. Leadership. Basic human relations. Etc etc etc


I don't know, perhaps you should have some self control. And think a little more (no, more than that. No, even more than that. NO!!!!!!! billi, try 1000 times more than that!!!) before YOU post.

*struck mishap and substituted mayhem because mishap implies accident while mayhem more properly implies the actual destruction. Trumps regime is not accidentally doing what they're doing. They're doing it to destroy our institutions, freedoms, commons, society, etc.

[neanderthal]

Teachers have to spend their own money on school supplies but people clamoring for teachers to be armed? Where's the money going to come from? And why isn't that money going into basic fucking school supplies?

Teachers are the unsung heroes of society if you ask me; under paid, under appreciated, under compensated, under esteemed. A teachers day can be a 5am to 9pm grind, with 6-8 of those hours spent in the company of other peoples kids. We'll pretend your kids are well behaved all the time.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't know, perhaps you should have some self control. And think a little more (no, more than that. No, even more than that. NO!!!!!!! billi, try 1000 times more than that!!!) before YOU post.

*struck mishap and substituted mayhem because mishap implies accident while mayhem more properly implies the actual destruction. Trumps regime is not accidentally doing what they're doing. They're doing it to destroy our institutions, freedoms, commons, society, etc.

Yes yes yes, president trump should have some self control too regarding his tweets..., but guess what, he's not gonna have any.

So what are you gonna do then? Keep on reading his dumb tweets? Just like you read Billi's posts? (At least my posts have smiles)

You are just going to keep on reading until you get a heart attack?

If world leaders read Trump's tweets as seriously as you read Billi's posts, we'd have world war 3 by now. Gotta learn to chill or ignore.


Seriously, I don't post with the intention to piss you off. Unfortunately you are just allergic to Billi, that's why you should try to stay away from me. It's really for your own benefit.

It'll also help make this thread easier to read.

Lastly, Trump Presidency is not all powerful, we still have sufficient check and balances. I'm sure he won't single handedly destroy our world. Set things back perhaps, but he won't break it.

[Freude am Fahren]

Teachers have to spend their own money on school supplies but people clamoring for teachers to be armed? Where's the money going to come from? And why isn't that money going into basic fucking school supplies?

Teachers are the unsung heroes of society if you ask me; under paid, under appreciated, under compensated, under esteemed. A teachers day can be a 5am to 9pm grind, with 6-8 of those hours spent in the company of other peoples kids. We'll pretend your kids are well behaved all the time.
Amen

[Tom Servo]

Rick Gates indicted for Conspiracy Against the United States.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4386213/2-23-18-Gates-Information.pdf

He has since plead guilty and is cooperating with the investigation. Manafort was indicted this afternoon, saying he "secretly retained a group of former senior European politicians to take positions favorable to Ukraine, including by lobbying in the United States."

[Tom Servo]

Manafort's superseding indictment.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1038741/download

[drew]

This shit is crazy.

[Tom Servo]

Hope Hicks has announced her resignation a day after testifying that sometimes she tells "white lies" as part of being communications director. Also recently, Jared Kushner, among others, has lost his temporary top secret clearance after not having his background check clear for the past 15 months, along with word that the governments of at least four countries had been discussing how they could use his debt in their countries as leverage with him.

[drew]

jfc.

[MR2 Fan]

I keep thinking we're near the end of the investigation and Trump's eventual removal from office in one way or another, but it keeps getting deeper.