Politics

[Freude am Fahren]

https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/TrumpTweetMisspellMelania.jpg

[drew]

:up:

[Cam]

:erm:

[G'day Mate]

No way ...

He's on a Twitter rant about the FBI right now actually

[TheBenior]

FWIW, my wife's name (Janelle) still occasionally gets autocorrected to 'handle' when I'm rushing.

[Tom Servo]

Oh, I'm sure it was auto-correct, but it's still hilarious.

[drew]

No way ...

He's on a Twitter rant about the FBI right now actually

Nothing new there. It's a bi-daily thing. Meaning, twice a day. He's grasping at the attention straws to keep his base frothed up.

[G'day Mate]

Apparently Mitch McConnell has backed the Mueller investigation following his special briefing ... :popcorn:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd4rkIdUQAIZ9w_.jpg

[Tom Servo]

"Other 193 Countries Begin Insulting Mike Pence In Hopes Of Avoiding Future Meetings With Trump"



Mike Pence is just a dumbfuck partisan hack who doesn’t have the faintest clue about international relations or running a country


https://politics.theonion.com/other-193-countries-begin-insulting-mike-pence-in-hopes-1826305704

[drew]

:lol: The Onion. I think even they couldn't have made up shit that rivals the actual goings on with this asshole.

[sandydandy]

I don't understand what's happening with Trump vs North Korea. They've finally stopped acting like assholes and have embraced peace, and are even dismantling their nuclear stuff, yet Trump continues to act like an asshole toward them. I don't get it.

:?

[FaultyMario]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Trump_the_art_of_the_deal.jpg

[Tom Servo]

Well, that all depends. Kim Jong-Un (and his father, for that matter) have always craved a meeting with the US. It gives them legitimacy, to be able to have a meeting with one of the biggest powers in the world. The US traditionally has been unwilling to do that unless DPRK makes certain concessions, which they've been unwilling to do. One could give Trump credit by saying that he dangled that promise in front of them and got a few hostages released and a nuclear test facility taken down and they got nothing in return, though it remains to be seen if that carrot would ever work again. In the meantime, the only nuclear concession so far is the dismantling of a single nuclear test facility that some believe had already been destroyed on accident (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-korea-nuclear-test-site-mantapsan-mountain-collapse-unusable-kim-jong-un/).

[Crazed_Insanity]

That special WH coin must be worth a fortune now...

[tigeraid]

In somewhat-related news, our Provincial election is about a week away. And our version of Trump, who is literally running on no platform, no budget and no facts, has resorted to promising the return of the Dollar Beer.


Horwath appeared calm and reasonable. In Ford, they saw a leader who did not look or sound like a premier.

He was too belligerent, too in-your-face, too contemptuous, too slow to reveal his agenda yet too quick to create policy on the fly. For a professed "man of the people," he displayed remarkably few people skills.

Setting aside the issue of corruption in the nomination of party candidates — some of it Ford's responsibility, some his predecessor's — Ford did not present himself as a potential premier who could be trusted to govern wisely, with a steady hand and in the best interest of all Ontarians, especially those who do not hail from "Ford Nation."

Speaking of that nation, while Ford may not know how to manage the province's finances, he is sure he knows how to satisfy his base. He promised at the weekend that, as premier, he would mandate a reduction in the retail price of beer to $1 a bottle.

If he thinks "One-Buck Beer" is the path to power in Ontario in 2018, he is out of touch with reality.

I mean... I guess he hasn't talked about grabbing pussies, lately.



https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/8633299-trying-to-stop-his-party-s-slide-doug-ford-offers-cheap-beer/

http://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/33745188_10216731830032344_1624757918731599872_o.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=1d063e3e1f4d8390fec7cba02480857e&oe=5BC304AF

[SportWagon]

I thought a large part of Doug Ford's platform was rolling back the minimum wage increase.

[MR2 Fan]

I thought a large part of Doug Ford's platform was rolling back the minimum wage increase.

Seriously? What a Douchebag

[Tom Servo]

Wait, there's another idiot Ford in Toronto? Of note, I couldn't remember Rob Ford's name, and a search on Google for "toronto ford" only brought back articles about Doug and car dealerships. Changing it to "toronto ford crack" brought up Rob Ford as the first result.

https://i.imgur.com/V527IRx.png

[Cam]

Wow.

Yeah, my sister-in-law knew of Doug Ford when he was younger. It is general knowledge that he was a drug dealer.

[sandydandy]

Ontario provincial elections are a joke from top to bottom. All candidates are utter garbage. Doug Ford is a buffoon just like his brother was. It’s such a hopeless and debilitating feeling when you are faced with no decent choice.

I’ve traditionally been a Conservative voter, and Ford’s predecessor, Patrick Brown, was the perfect candidate. Socially liberal while fiscally conservative. The kind of conservative I like. But they forced him out on some bullshit sexual harassment allegations and even threatened to kill his mother. He was a good guy. A decent man. He softened his stance on same-sex relations and loved minorities, especially Indian people, and the hardline Conservatives couldn’t have that. Because of the Trump Effect, the party has been poisoned with a white nationalist presence, and they run the show. The end result is Doug Ford. The guy is a fucking joke.

I don’t know who I’m going to vote for. On one hand I can’t stand the status quo, which is the Liberals. I can’t go NDP because the thought of paying $1.75/L for gasoline is not very exciting. And I can’t go Conservative because I don’t want to see a racist drug dealer in power. What’s left, Green Party?

[FaultyMario]

Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama,
Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama,
Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama,
Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama,
Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama, Mamoudou Gassama,

FUCK YOU, FUCKING MOTHERFUCKERS, FUCK YOU.

[Cam]

Time to run for office, Sandy! :D

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yep, every nation has their own version of their Hillary and Trump. Maybe this will finally make room for 3rd party...

Bar really needs to be set higher for candidates too... such as if you're under investigation or have a pending lawsuit, can't run until its resolved.

[MR2 Fan]

that works in theory, except anyone can sue anyone to prevent them from running for office in that case

[Crazed_Insanity]

Perhaps judges can help or vouch for potential candidates? If a law suit seems frivolous or not related to the character of the candidate? Such as some guy fell in front of his house and decides to sue...

Conflict of interest issues and tax returns must be disclosed also whenever you run. If you don't want the public to know these things, then stay covert and out of public offices.

[sandydandy]

Time to run for office, Sandy! :D Might have to...someone has to save us!

[Godson]

In other news, govenor mcfuckwhit has stepped down.

[Crazed_Insanity]

In entertainment news, this Rosanne thing is just amazing to me.

This is probably a blowback for Trump? So many stupid fucking tweets from him, nobody could touch him. For Rosanne's stupid racist tweet, at least the left has the power to fire her... and they fired her right away! Doesn't even matter if she has the network's highest ratings for a new show. Doesn't matter if she apologized. Once a racist, forever a fucking racist. Go join the white nationalists, we don't want you anymore!

This leftist ideology is seriously scarying me. Same with the #me too movement, the left extremists don't care if they lose a senate seat. The movement must go on!

Rosanne apologized and tried to shift the blame her brain not functioning properly because it was middle of the night and she uses a sleep aid drug... and the funny thing is that the drug company felt necessary to make it clear that racism isn't a side-effect! One has to be a special breed of fucking asshole to joke around with a racist comment. Nothing to do with the drug!!!

What's most amazing to me is that Jimmy Kimmel just tweeted that perhaps Rosanne needs help and some compassion because that's not the Rosanne that he knows... and Jimmy was seemed as trying to defend her and he is now under fire...

The left has became ideologically possessed that ideology "trumps' everything. Once somebody crossed that 'ideological' line, there's just no going back. Doesn't matter if you were joking around like Al Franken, not thinking straight in the middle of the nite like Rosanne... if you crossed the line, you are tossed under the bus. Doesn't matter if ABC will lose bunch of ad dollars..., doesn't matter if lots of other folks end up losing their jobs. There's just no recourse, apologies not accepted. Under the bus you go... wow.

It's also very funny that we can call our white president an orangutan without any problems whatsoever. I guess it's open season for white folks. Is it any wonder we now have more and more white nationalists?

Sad state we're in...

On one side, we have Nazis whitie supremacists... and on the other side we have Marxists/Maoists. There must be some Americans around who are not that extreme, right?

[Tom Servo]

Well, it wasn't just the one tweet I'd imagine, she's got a history of saying a lot of crazy shit. It's also not the first time she compared a black woman to an ape, it's a go-to joke for her. I believe she called Susan Rice a "big man with swinging ape balls."

Also, the *whole point* of the me too movement is to point out that men in power have been sexually harassing and assaulting women for decades. Your counter argument is that "well, we don't want to lose a senate seat" is precisely the problem. Saying that someone in that position should be able to get away with it because they're too important to be brought down is what lets some men do what they did with impunity.

But you're right. It's all on the left. That's why Trump is suggesting that NFL players that don't stand for the national anthem should have their citizenship revoked. Or the outrage from the right and calls to boycott Netflix over Michelle Wolf. FFS.

[Cam]

...decades.

Don't you mean centuries?

[Crazed_Insanity]

No, it's not all on the left. Both right and left are pushing each other further apart.

We have a nazi tribe and a Marxist tribe in America and both are growing in membership. Its like, because they're commies, so I can be a nazi! Or because their Nazis, that justify me becoming Marxist...

Weinstein company deserves to be torn down, but I still cannot believe a comedian joking around with colleagues prior to becoming a senator can have his senate career destroyed without due process.

This is not going to help women's cause of equal work equal pay. Men will simply to too scared to hire women in the future. But of course no one politically correct will actual say it. We'll see how the blue states will fix the gender pay gap in the future.

[Tom Servo]

You can certainly argue that what Franken did was not worthy of forcing him to step down. What isn't is that "losing a senate seat" should not be part of that argument. Like "this person did something bad, but then we'll lose a senate seat, so we can't do anything about it."

[Tom Servo]

Don't you mean centuries?

Yeah, but I didn't want to overwhelm him.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You can certainly argue that what Franken did was not worthy of forcing him to step down. What isn't is that "losing a senate seat" should not be part of that argument. Like "this person did something bad, but then we'll lose a senate seat, so we can't do anything about it."

Why is losing the senate seat the ONLY way to do something about it?

Do you think it's fair for my boss to ask me to resign or just out right fire me as an engineer when somebody shows my boss a picture of me fooling around pretending to grab somebody's tits? Of course if the picture shows boss's wife or daughter, then I'm sure I'll be screwed..., but let's be objective here.

Let's say you're my boss and you see me instead of Al on that photo. Would you fire me as an engineer even after I apologized?

Lastly, sexual assaults and rapes have happened for a long long time, it's not like I'm clueless about them. However, you can't blame ALL men for them. Not all men rape women. Not even majority of men rape women. Also, not all rape victims are women. It won't do us any good to pit men against women like that. As if all men are bad horny rapists. You guys can get offended when Trump claimed Mexicans are rapists, but you have no problem believing that men, like yourselves, have been sexually assaulting women for centuries?

Of course this kind of poor behavior needs to stop, but I just think we are currently over doing it.

Back to Swervo, if I were Al the engineer, would you fire me boss?

If I were Harvey the engineer, sure, you ought to report me to the police too, not just fire me...

[edit]Okay, I reread Tom's post again... Swervo's only claiming men in power have been assaulting women for decades... so never mind about Al the engineer. Since he has little power, we don't care about him sexually assaulting coworkers as much. :p

But even with the group 'men in power'... I'm sure not ALL sexually assaulted folks.
Trying to topple all of them down whenever you get a chance is just like how the commie nations tried to topple all of the evil rich productive people. They won't stop until everybody else is as poor as them. True equality there.

[neanderthal]

Congrats billi.

You've gone from making a feckless argument about how the left are becoming moral nazis, while conveniently excusing and completely ignoring the OVERT (that means obvious, opposite of subtle!) racism, sexism, Islamophobia, transphobia, egregious aporophobia (look it up!) and so on, nevermind the corruption, nepotism chicanery, larceny, etc of this regime, and gone to making a "not all" argument about rape.

You're quite a body of work.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm not excusing what's going on on the right.

Both left and right are going off the deep end IMHO.

General consensus seems to be, how can you blame us? Look at the other side!!! They are more fucked up than us! They need to fix themselves 1st...

All the while both sides continue to rot to the core... the right is not full blown nazi yet and the left isn't complete commies yet, but both continue to make progress in their respective directions. Scary.

[Tom Servo]

Billi, I'm going to explain this again. But only once.

I don't necessarily agree that Franken should have lost his seat. I'd personally prefer he didn't, but not traditionally having been the recipient of sexual harassment, I don't know that it's my place to choose that. I didn't say that's the only way it should be solved (though if you figure you've got only 100 people out of the entire country in the senate, ideally you can find 100 competent lawmakers that haven't done questionable things and still be in pretty good shape).

I said that the fact that he was a senator and that the "left" would "lose a senate seat" is a really shitty argument for why not to do something. If there's a problem, saying "oh, but the consequences would be too bothersome" is the very crux of the problem: Power allows people to do bad things to people with less power and get away with it. I'd say that argument was about as good as "But there are a lot of really great Weinstein movies!"

[Crazed_Insanity]

Com'on, situation between Harvey and Al is way too different. For one, Al didn't abuse his power as a senator to grab titties, but Harvey clearly did.

Punishment must fit the crime. We can't deliver the same sentences without regarding what really happened. It's the lack of due process and 'equal' punishment regardless of what happened that bothered me.

Take Bill Clinton and Monica for example. Back then, for sure Monica got the short end of the stick..., but imagine that taking place now... surely Bill Clinton would be crucified...., not just by Ken Starr on the right, but by the #me too movement from the left! I guess the silverlining would be saving Ken some trouble and millions of taxpayers money.

Anyway, do you see what I'm trying to say here? Understand my concern that I think these movements are pushing way to hard? Rather than a force that fights oppression, it's beginning to look oppressive.

[Tom Servo]

I give up. It's clear you're not reading anything I'm writing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You don't like the argument of losing a senate seat, so I dropped it and made a different argument.

Do you see what I'm trying to express here?

Do you still believe #me too movement is perfectly fine?

Let's go back to Rosanne. Do you really believe she is a deplorable and made an unforgivable sin with her racist rants?

She was apologetic initially, but the left doesn't care and don't want her back.

Now she's embolden by the support on the right.

The divide grows wider.

In order for America to be truly great again, right and left need to find a way to make up because we're definitely better together.

Human brain is either created or evolved into 2 hemispheres... one on the right and the other on the left. Yes, they function vastly differently as well and often at odds with each other. However, they both still work together to help us make the best decisions. Our nation needs to do the same.

[MR2 Fan]

Billi, I'm going to explain this again. But only once.

I don't necessarily agree that Franken should have lost his seat. I'd personally prefer he didn't, but not traditionally having been the recipient of sexual harassment, I don't know that it's my place to choose that. I didn't say that's the only way it should be solved (though if you figure you've got only 100 people out of the entire country in the senate, ideally you can find 100 competent lawmakers that haven't done questionable things and still be in pretty good shape).

I said that the fact that he was a senator and that the "left" would "lose a senate seat" is a really shitty argument for why not to do something. If there's a problem, saying "oh, but the consequences would be too bothersome" is the very crux of the problem: Power allows people to do bad things to people with less power and get away with it. I'd say that argument was about as good as "But there are a lot of really great Weinstein movies!"

Ignoring Billi, the problem with the timing of this is that it would feel like a double standard if Franken was convinced to keep his seat while others on the GOP side were pushed out for the same thing.

Now, there is an argument that could be made regarding innocent until proven guilty, but apparently Franken felt it wasn't worth the effort, or there was something to the allegations (I think he had some questionable videos during his comedy acts as well).

[Crazed_Insanity]

Personally, I'd like full investigations of these accusations. It'd also be nice to also charge those who assisted or knew and helped covered it up. Just as discussed in our gun control thread, if mass shooter used your gun, you should also be some what responsible. Likewise, those who helped Harvey or Cosby or Al or whoever covered shit up must also be held responsible too! These predators don't just become that overnight. There are enablers.

Everyone's responsible to stop this shit, rather than expecting simple removal of these predators will solve problems once and for all.

Not to mention our current willingness to remove even those falsely accused.

Considering how many centuries women had been abused by powerful men, this is a small price to pay?

[neanderthal]

I'm not excusing what's going on on the right.

Both left and right are going off the deep end IMHO.

General consensus seems to be, how can you blame us? Look at the other side!!! They are more fucked up than us! They need to fix themselves 1st...

All the while both sides continue to rot to the core... the right is not full blown nazi yet and the left isn't complete commies yet, but both continue to make progress in their respective directions. Scary.

Ah, but when there was a whiff of impropriety of sexual assault by a Democratic Senator (Franken) the Democrats made him resign. There was a fucking chorus of condemnation from. the. left.

Meanwhile Trump, a rapist (his first wife wrote in her book that he committed marital rape) and serial sexual assaulter (16 known!) remains in office, as yet uncriticised or excoriated by the vast majority of the conservatives. This is why we can call them names like accurately call them "hypocrite" in light of their so called morality they espouse but fail to demonstrate.
Do we need to go into the rest of the consevative politicians who have sexual assault, or other assault, stigma linked to them? Because only two of several, (Greitens only very recently) have resigned, and, their cohorts were mostly quiet about the inappropriateness of what they did. One resigned and didn't even pay back the hush money that taxpayers paid to his victim, from a fund specifically set up for that!

Democratic politicians with stigma of that sort have been made to resign their office, by Democrats.

But yeah, lets keep bleating that "both parties are the same" thing that you like to repeat when you can't formulate an actual argument.

Calling someone a hypocrite because they are being hypocritical is not being mean. It's being factual.

Calling Trump a liar because he is lying is not attacking him. And defending him, his lies, is enabling him. Calling him a racist because of things he has said (Mexicans are rapists," those animals" in reference to MS-13, "fine people on both sides" when referring to literal Nazis, Muslims hate us etc) things he has done (his conduct with the widow of Jeremiah Johnson, the failure with Puerto Rico, his reticence to honor James Shaw etc) is not being mean. It's being factual. And failing to condemn him for such is enabling him, making those who fail to condemn him complicit as racists. When you do nothing to remove the burden of oppression on another, and stand idly by, well congratulations, you've just participated in that oppression. And speaking out against racism is the bare minimum. It costs literally nothing.

Lets talk misogyny. When, ... ah fuck it.

I have better things to do than sit here and teach you basic human fucking decency.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't agree with Trump's sexual whatevers... he really should NOT be president. However, I also don't agree with democrats just chopped off Al's dick simply on a whiff of impropriety. You don't think there ought to be a more reasonable and decent middle ground somewhere?

I actually do agree with you in some regard that I don't believe it's just the fault of those powerful sexual predators. Rather than only catch them, we need to penalize their minions who enabled them too.

As for racist rants, until the rise of Trump the orangutan, I thought it's out of fashion already, unfortunately it's coming back and becoming more overt. I don't really know why, but maybe political correctness is just not suited for us humans. Similarly the feminist movement now has caused incredible popularity of 50 shades of grey. When you suppress one human emotion too much, some form of passive aggressiveness reaction usually will come out.

Rosane should've been given few warnings. If she continues, then she has proven herself that she's not suited for prime time. However, if she's genuinely apologetic and modifies her behavior, wouldn't that be better? A true teaching moment is one that gives the student a 2nd chance. Not just be thrown under the bus. Wouldn't that be the more decent thing to do? Jimmy kimmel was being pretty decent but instead he's being roasted.

Anyway, I just want the 2 sides to be able to get along, but instead they are growing faster and further apart.

This kind of polarization seriously doesn't worry you guys? Do you really think the widening gap is only being caused by the other side?

[neanderthal]

I actually do agree with you in that regard, just as I don't believe it's just the fault of those powerful sexual predators. Rather than only catch them, we need to penalize their minions who enabled them too.

As for racist rants, until the rise of Trump the orangutan, I thought it's out of fashion already, unfortunately it's coming back and becoming more overt. I don't really know why, but maybe political correctness is just not suited for us humans. Similarly the feminist movement now has caused incredible popularity of 50 shades of grey. When you suppress one human emotion too much, some form of passive aggressiveness reaction usually will come out.

Rosane should've been given few warnings. If she continues, then she has proven herself that she's not suited for prime time. However, if she's genuinely apologetic and modifies her behavior, wouldn't that be better? A true teaching moment is one that gives the student a 2nd chance. Not just be thrown under the bus. Wouldn't that be the more decent thing to do? Jimmy kimmel was being pretty decent but instead he's being roasted.

Anyway, I just want the 2 sides to be able to get along, but instead they are growing faster and further apart.

This kind of polarization seriously doesn't worry you guys? Do you really think the widening gap is only being caused by the other side?

Dude, Bernstein and Bill Cosby's driver/ assistant/ whoever DID NOT sexually assault anybody!!! (I could be wrong!) Which "minions" do you think enabled them?

And, the right has gone further and further right since the rise of the tea party. They've caused the rift by going batshit crazy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't understand. Read what you wrote:


And failing to condemn him for such is enabling him, making those who fail to condemn him complicit as racists. When you do nothing to remove the burden of oppression on another, and stand idly by, well congratulations, you've just participated in that oppression.

I know those close to Bernstein or Cosby did not actually participate in the assaults, but if they just know and not report... perhaps even help him cover shit up, they've just participated in the assault too, no?

Anyway, so okay, I got it. The left hasn't moved at all. Only the right are batshit crazy.

You really don't think forcing a senator to resign based only on a whiff of impropriety, basically convict him without due process is a little bit crazy?

You don't think it's perfectly fine to call a white person with orange hair an orangutan yet totally unforgivable to call a black person ape is kinda crazy?

Maybe I'm the only crazy one.

[Dicknose]

There is a big difference between aides and employees, those who have power welded over them, and colleges, friends, financial supporters and business partners.
If someone is acting bad it’s hard to blame their minions. But other people of power, they an afford to make a stand. Except usually greed gets in the way.
Power makes a huge difference. Those with it should be held more accountable then those who act from under it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Of course, you shouldnt punish the father of the mass shooter the same as if he's the actual shooter. Weinstein employees also shouldn't be equally punished. Nazi minions shouldn't be punished just the same as Hitler, but they are still somewhat responsible too. Punishments need to fit the crime.

People need to learn some responsibility. Can't just shift blame that my boss made me do it or Satan made me do it or God made me do it...

[neanderthal]

I don't understand. Read what you wrote:



I know those close to Bernstein or Cosby did not actually participate in the assaults, but if they just know and not report... perhaps even help him cover shit up, they've just participated in the assault too, no?

Anyway, so okay, I got it. The left hasn't moved at all. Only the right are batshit crazy.

You really don't think forcing a senator to resign based only on a whiff of impropriety, basically convict him without due process is a little bit crazy?

You don't think it's perfectly fine to call a white person with orange hair an orangutan yet totally unforgivable to call a black person ape is kinda crazy?

Maybe I'm the only crazy one.

Ahhh, so you *refuse to consider* the historical racist context of demeaning and dehumanising black people by calling them monkeys, apes, baboons etc but you choose to see me calling Trump (a man with a decidedly unnatural orange pallor) as something that is offensive?

I'll call him a shitgibbon (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shitgibbon) then. Happy?

There wasn't a mere whiff of impropriety, there was *evidence* of such. Perhaps that fact flew beneath your cognisance; like the historical use of dehumanising black people by calling them simians. And, we liberals tend to hold our politicians to a standard, a code of conduct as it were. But, i see you're not offended/ troubled by the conservatives inability/ inaction/ impotence as it comes to policing their politicians. Yet they espouse they hold the morality and family values high ground. Again, here you are checking me, an avowed left of center liberal, for policing the actions of our left leaning politicians and not checking the conservatives on theirs. Why is that?

Maybe you are indeed. Your myopic, addled thinkpieces don't have any seeming end point. No direction. No reflection. And no basis in reality, nuance, understanding, and mostly, fact.

[neanderthal]

There is a big difference between aides and employees, those who have power welded over them, and colleges, friends, financial supporters and business partners.
If someone is acting bad it’s hard basically impossible to blame their minions, AS THEY AREN'T EQUALS. But other people of power, they an afford to make a stand. Except usually greed gets in the way.
Power makes a huge difference. Those with it should be held more accountable then those who act from under it.

This.

[neanderthal]

Of course, you shouldnt punish the father of the mass shooter the same as if he's the actual shooter. Weinstein employees also shouldn't be equally punished. Nazi minions shouldn't be punished just the same as Hitler, but they are still somewhat responsible too. Punishments need to fit the crime.

People need to learn some responsibility. Can't just shift blame that my boss made me do it or Satan made me do it or God made me do it...

He who commits the deed gets punished. Not those who are nearby.

And nobody in Nazi Germany was compelled to commit atrocities. Non had a gun put to their head. They could have decided to be a baker instead of the prison warden.They didn't. They chose to partake, knowing that what they were doing was wrong.

Just like you're doing now.

You seem to get the idea (unspoilered) but you're keen to cause discontent and rabble rouse, making arguments that counter what you yourself have said, etc. And you wonder why you're blocked by many.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This.


I don't think I was disagreeing with that.

Anyway, my end game is trying to get Americans truly together again and America truly great again.

Trump doesn't really know how to make America great again and Hillary wasn't genuine in working together with either the deplorables nor the Bernie or bust folks.

Just fucking put al Franken on trial, investigate his ass and let the chip fall where it may... rather than just ask him to leave and put in another jr female as replacement. She'll probably easier for the DNC to control her. You win credit with the me too movement and you increase # of female senators in the senate. Awesome job!

But even Al's replacement, Tina smith, wish the ethics process can be fully completed before he was tossed under the bus.

Leftist agendas completed. But is this jr senator really as competent as Al? Who cares, as long as the feminists and the me too folks are happy. We also showed the conservatives how we hold our own politicians to a 'higher standard'.

It is a crazy standard if you ask me.

As it is, the left is scaring me. pretty sure the right will double down on Trump based on their fear of the left.

[Crazed_Insanity]

He who commits the deed gets punished. Not those who are nearby.

And nobody in Nazi Germany was compelled to commit atrocities. Non had a gun put to their head. They could have decided to be a baker instead of the prison warden.They didn't. They chose to partake, knowing that what they were doing was wrong.

Just like you're doing now.

You seem to get the idea (unspoilered) but you're keen to cause discontent and rabble rouse, making arguments that counter what you yourself have said, etc. And you wonder why you're blocked by many.

I'm really confused... what are you trying to say? Besides hitler, should other Nazis be held responsible too? What are you arguing for or against? Near by Nazis need to be held responsible but of course we can't hold German bakers that might have fed the Nazis responsible. What exactly is our disagreement?

Anyway, as for folks blocking me, it's only because they can't handle the truth.

The left has another issue... is that they can't seem to take offense very well. If I'm offensive, then I must be wrong. That's just BS!

But anyway, the left firmly believes offenses are all wrong. Hence the need to create political correctness.

Of course I do realize the other reason why I'm unpopular is because I can get obnoxiously repetitious such as during my system days or preaching the gospel days. however, I still do believe doc love teaches the truth. And Gospel is just... A lot of you just can't handle it. :p

Some of you really need to face the truth rather that hide inside the inoffensive politically correct bubble. That bubble is popping.

[FaultyMario]

Nazi Germany

I don't want to sound rude, but this is the internet and I'm a bit buzzed, so yeah, fuck it, i think that what people like Kanye and Aaron Schlossberg and maybe Billi don't realize is that they aren't like them, like the Trump Patriots, not same, they are the others.

Like French or Polish collaborators, not quite like.

[neanderthal]

No, you're an obnoxious, narcisistic fuck who likes to create dissent, while trying to pass yourself off, and failing mightily if I may say so, as a thoughtful and reasoning individual.

[neanderthal]

I don't want to sound rude, but this is the internet and I'm a bit buzzed, so yeah, fuck it, i think that what people like Kanye and Aaron Schlossberg and maybe Billi don't realize is that they aren't like them, like the Trump Patriots, not same, they are the others.

Like French or Polish collaborators, not quite like.

Yep.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No, you're an obnoxious, narcisistic fuck who likes to create dissent, while trying to pass yourself off, and failing mightily if I may say so, as a thoughtful and reasoning individual.

Other than narcissistic, I can agree with the rest of your assessment.

I am trying to be as thoughtful and reasonable as possible, but I have to agree that I often times can't properly articulate whatever I'm trying to say very well.

Anyway, I'm definitely trying to create dissent from this scary leftist ideology. If this forum's full of roofers, I'd be trying to create dissent from the scary rightist ideology.

Like I said, my end goal is trying to bring the left and right to meet somewhere in the middle.

Seriously, do you believe we are better together? Or that was just a campaign slogan?

[Yw-slayer]

I'm Malaysian. Laughing at you lot now. :lol:

[G'day Mate]

I'm Australian - I'm drunk and confused*

* as to why I'm reading this

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hi guys! I'm crazy and insane!*

* as to why I'm writing all this

[Tom Servo]

Saw dear leader complaining about the "very expensive witch hunt". Looks like so far, the investigation is approaching $17 million. His planned military parade later this year could cost as much as $50 million, per NPR.

Just thought it was notable. Carry on.

[Crazed_Insanity]

US govt can waste a lot of money anyway... it'll be sad if after spending millions and they failed to get rid of the president. Like Bill Clinton, giant waste of time and tax money... hope Mueller will be more successful than Ken Starr... then it'll be worth every penny!

As for military parades, I wonder how much does it cost our military to do fly by for Rose Parade, Indy 500 or all other sporting events. I'm willing to bet way more then $50 million/yr.

Anyway, yes, carrying on with craziness: https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/nation/2018/06/02/california-bans-travel-oklahoma-due-discriminatory-lgbt-law/666320002/

CA is making a statement to ban all state sponsored travel to Oklahoma and host of other 'discriminatory' states for their bigoted anti-gay laws.

Oklahoma law is only allowing private orgs to deny gays from adopting. The state itself is still allowing gays to adopt. But that is just too discriminating... the church had been oppressing gays for thousands of years, it's time we oppress the church back and force them do what they don't want to do!

Anyway, I don't think Oklahoma will miss CA officials traveling to Oklahoma that much... At least CA is not totally crazy to start trade war with evil Oklahoma or something like that.

Again, either I'm a bit more crazy or this world is going a bit more nuts. CA passing its own stupid little law that doesn't do much except to make the gay community happy during gay pride month. I'd also consider that a waste of tax money.

Does CA know homelessness is on the rise? Hope homelessness will be on the lefts agenda soon... because that problem just isn't being solved...

[neanderthal]

Saw dear leader complaining about the "very expensive witch hunt". Looks like so far, the investigation is approaching $17 million. His planned military parade later this year could cost as much as $50 million, per NPR.

Just thought it was notable. Carry on.


Never mind the expensive trips to his golf courses and the expense of keeping Melania in New York. Which is where she is rumoured to be, again.


Lotsa people worried about a grown ass womans whereabouts and not worried about the location of thousands of brown skinned kids ripped from their mothers arms!

[Dicknose]

Billi - you seemed to ignore the implications of power.

Hard to blame someone working for Weinstein, when they have seen other crushed who opposed him.
Huge difference to the movie moguls who supported him, having heard the stories but choosing to ignore them because oh the money.

Your boss, who could not only fire you, but the word out to ruin your career... yeah blame someone who works for them knowing they are doing bad stuff, but aren’t willing to risk their career and family to step away.
Power is critical in these sorts of things, those with it use it to make sure they get away with it. Then can and do crush people who get in their way.

[Crazed_Insanity]

True. Power, peer pressure, or father's simple trust of his son not to misuse his fire arms... all contributing factors.

Hence I'm not asking for equal punishment for all. However, even if you needed your nazi salary and all your friends are Nazis, that shouldn't absolve you from all responsibility right?

German baker who has fed the Nazi probably shouldn't be blamed. All I'm asking is punishment need to fit the crime.

Also, people need to think for themselves... when your boss jumps off a cliff and when your peers jump off a cliff... should you really do the same? And if you jumped and hurt yourself, does it help playing victim? My boss made me jump or my friends pushed me...

We all can suffer under herd mentality and we all can think too. Perhaps by making everyone responsible, less people will end up doing stupid things.

In fact, I would credit this type of herd mentality for our current political polarization. Each side believes that they can do no wrong and it's all the other herd's fault... but I seriously 'think' both herds are heading toward a cliff...

[Crazed_Insanity]

In his new novel, Bill Clinton agrees with me that our current political trajectory may be not so good... and i don't think he's just pointing his finger to the right...


At the end of a new thriller, the fictional president issues a stark warning. “Our democracy cannot survive its current downward drift into tribalism, extremism, and seething resentment,” Jonathan Lincoln Duncan declares. “Our willingness to believe the worst about everyone outside our own bubble is growing, and our ability to solve problems and seize opportunities is shrinking.”

Does the actual former president William Jefferson Clinton — who wrote those words — believe that in the real world “our democracy cannot survive” without changing its current direction?

“Yes, if the trend continues,” Bill Clinton told USA TODAY in an exclusive joint interview with co-author James Patterson about their new book, The President Is Missing. “The whole American Constitution and representative democracy is built on sooner or later there coming a time of constructive compromise. You cannot constructively compromise with someone if you feel that their identity is less legitimate than yours and if you believe that your seething resentment makes compromise a sell-out.”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/06/03/bill-clinton-james-patterson-thriller-president-missing-trump/633794002/

[neanderthal]

A fucking baker has not committed crimes by baking bread. A driver has not committed crimes by driving his boss somewhere. An executive assistant has not committed any crimes by making phones calls and booking appointments.

However, a prison warden who has violated the terms of the Geneva Convention has. A security guard who has used excessive force or been an agent of intimidation or coercion, has.

This is not rocket science... stop being deliberately obtuse!

[Crazed_Insanity]

I totally agree with you. I don't understand why you think I disagree with you.

Now, for the sake of argument, let's say I'm your boss and you're my favorite baker/driver/assistant and I pay you a lot of money... I mean ALOT! Unbelievably well paid. Because you're just amazing! While working for me, I proudly tell you stories of how I grabbed so many pussies and how I enjoy fucking them over... and you know I'm not joking!

What would you do?

If you keep working for me and don't report my crimes against humanity because you're just super loyal, can you really be innocent? Okay you may be afraid of my orange hair and just too scared to report, but if you keep working for me, can you really live with yourself?

If I didn't tell you and you didn't know, then of course you'd be innocent.

Punishment needs to fit the crime.

I'm not asking everyone working for Harvey to all be equally punished... only those who knowingly help and cover up for him. Clear？

Particularly those lawyers who dug up victims' dirt and try to smear them and lessen their credibility... and use legal bullying tactics...

[21Kid]

Geez... Now I need to ignore all responses to Billi too? This is getting ridiculous.

[Godson]

I uh....



Missouri has a new govenor who is most likely not as big a pile of excement as the previous.

[Crazed_Insanity]

May be I should start a new 'philosophical political' thread and leave this one alone for those just interested in bashing trump and conservatives?

Feel kinda bad to upset those who want me to stay out of their bubble...

[Dicknose]

Billi - again Im going to say "power"

if the person you should report has power over you, then you are less culpable. Of cause its a balance between the seriousness of the offence and the degree of power (risk job, risk life). Generally if they have any significant power, then you could be at great personal risk if you say anything.
Now if the person who knows has the power or is an equal, that is then very different.

We just had a catholic cardinal loss a court case and will now stand trial. This is very different to say an altar boy also knowing what was going on.
The cardinal helped cover up crimes.

So yeah - a driver is a lot bigger difference to a financial backer. That you are talking about more money, implying that they are buying you off, still doesnt change the huge disparity in power between them. Its hard to put blame on someone who didnt do the crime but knows about it, but who also has very little power. History (even recent history) is littered with people who "did the right thing", it went nowhere except to destroy them. You have to be very brave and determined to be a whistleblower.
Weinstein is the classic example - he made good on threats and actresses found out that their careers were hurt (generally told "she is very hard to work with, dont use her" and people accepted his word)

They way you are talking about this it seems like a weak attempt to shift blame.

[Tom Servo]

In honor of the election today out here in CA, there's this guy running for Feinstein's senate seat.

https://i.redd.it/bve8lonl53211.jpg

[21Kid]

Oh boy...

Also, I didn't realize CA's stupid "top two" primary until just a few months ago. That sounds like such a bad idea. Why can't we just get ranked voting across the board? :(

[Crazed_Insanity]

We have nearly 2 pages of candidates running for governor and US senate... need to narrow the field down a bit...

[Tom Servo]

The issue is that being a state that tends to heavily lean one direction, you get a ton of candidates from one party and not many from another. The Senate one isn't that bad on that front, but consider the 22nd district. Nunes is the only Republican while there are three Democrats running against him. Even if only 30% of people vote for Nunes, if the three Democrats are all pretty evenly matched they'll end up only getting about 23% of the vote each. Presumably, that'd lead to the parties more directly interfering with the candidates, the Democratic party would probably insist that two of the three Democrats drop out so there's a better chance the party would take the seat, and we know how some people, especially Sanders supporters, feel about the party imposing its will on candidates. Similarly, this would tend to favor incumbents as it's not that common that there are many serious challengers from the same party for incumbents.

[Tom Servo]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The federal school safety commission set up after the deadly shooting at a Florida high school will not examine the role of guns in school violence, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos said Tuesday.

Writing something in a non-quote to make forum software not whine.

[Dicknose]

Ranked voting (preferential aka instant runoff) is designed for that sort of situation.
It means you could have 2 or more people from the same party against similar from another party, plus more parties or independents.
It doesn’t suffer from “vote splitting”, since you can vote effectively for all the members of the party you like, your vote can switch between them to the one that ends up the most popular.

It also means you don’t need to run multi-stage elections, it’s all done in one go.

[Jason]

When did AP get into satire?

...

:|

[Freude am Fahren]

Disinviting them from the White House only proves that our president is not a true patriot, but a fragile egomaniac obsessed with crowd size and afraid of the embarrassment of throwing a party to which no one wants to attend.

He also called him a Tyrant, trying to start a dictatorship.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ranked voting (preferential aka instant runoff) is designed for that sort of situation.
It means you could have 2 or more people from the same party against similar from another party, plus more parties or independents.
It doesn’t suffer from “vote splitting”, since you can vote effectively for all the members of the party you like, your vote can switch between them to the one that ends up the most popular.

It also means you don’t need to run multi-stage elections, it’s all done in one go.

Yeah, I kinda wish they could've done this on the national level. Could answer the question of whether if our nation is truly polarized beyond saving and end up with Trump and Hillary anyway... or would somebody like Bernie Sanders could conceivably end up 2nd or perhaps even winning this combined primary.

[Dicknose]

It’s still hard for a 3rd party in a two party system.
Here we use prefential voting, but parties can only run a single candidate. Occasionally someone splits a major party and goes independent. They can and do win.
But it could also work if you allowed parties to run multiple candidates (although for practicality you probably still want a limit, just more than one)
It encourages people to vote for that third person if that’s what they want, but without it feeling like a wasted vote. As they can put in a backup preference.
It’s not perfect (there is no perfect system, been shown mathematically!). It can be confusing for voters if they are not used to it. And in extreme cases you can get the situation where the best result for candidate A is actually a vote for candidate B (otherwise candidate C might win). Yes I’m a psephologist - someone who studies elections.

[sandydandy]

Just a quick interlude...our Ontario elections are tomorrow and I’ve decided to vote for the outcast and severe underdog: the Green Party. Only because the candidate is kind of cute. Yes, that’s what it’s come down to. That’s how bad the other candidates are.

BTW, she doesn’t even live in the area she’s representing, which makes it even more fucked up.

As you were...

[Cam]

Anything would be better than Doug Lets-Get-Drunk-And-High Ford.

[dodint]

Trump is a teetotaler. Just sayin'. ;)

[neanderthal]

So the Republicans just defunded CHIP today.

There was a hue and cry a few days ago when it was announced that Medicare and Social Security would both be bankrupt by [insert some date.] Remember when they passed their "tax cut" and I warned you they were after Social Security and Medicare?

You've been contributing to those in every paycheck from your employer since you started working. Republicans are taking steps to make sure both of those are insolvent.

[FaultyMario]

The best caption to the G7 photo doing the rounds on twitter I've seen is this one:


http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfQ0IK3UEAA2D10.jpg


Amgela Merkel: Tell you what, sir, from now on, you'll be Homer Thompson at Terror Lake. Let's just practice a bit, hmm? When I say "hello, Mr. Thompson", you'll say "hi".

[FaultyMario]

There's a better one..

http://twitter.com/nacholozano/status/1005660216426409984?s=09

[Crazed_Insanity]

How come the table shrunk so much?

[Freude am Fahren]

I have no idea what either of those captions means.

I see a petulant child in a store refusing to move because he can't get a toy, while his mother yells at him, and other shoppers look on, just wanting it to end, so they can buy their items and leave.

[FaultyMario]

I have no idea what either of those captions means.

it reads "on Tinder / in RL"

[FaultyMario]

I see a petulant child

Others have seen that as well.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfVfhl-W0AE5bTV.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

it reads "on Tinder / in RL"

Ah, ok, nice.

[Tom Servo]

Fox News host sorry for calling Trump, Kim ‘two dictators’ (https://apnews.com/cba874a78c8d49239b13b16f74d0826d/Fox-News-host-sorry-for-calling-Trump,-Kim-'two-dictators)

And on dear leader's favorite show Fox & Friends, no less.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No secret that Trump actually wants to be a dictator if he can pull it off.

[21Kid]

So Trump is willing to negotiate with N. Korea and Russia, but not our allies?

It seems like he is just trying to burn everything to the ground.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I just found out we actually have no ambassador for South Korea...

I guess we're already 'friends', that's why no more ambassadors needed, just need to focus in on the evil dictators first. No ambassadors want to work for Trump? No problem for this 'master' negotiator. He can just DIY... Nobel peace prize, here it comes! ;)

[MR2 Fan]

This whole situation sucks, because now if Mueller gets rid of Trump and NK inevitably backs out of the deal, Trump supporters will actually have a somewhat valid reason to spin this.....that's very bad.

Before, there was, in my mind, 100% reason to get rid of Trump, because none of what he did was beneficial to anyone beside himself and his crony friends. NOW, even if it's just perceived, he's being seen as a peacemaker, in this f-ed up bizarro world we live in now.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It is very very hard to get rid of a sitting preside legally anyway. Even with Nixon, if he hadn't resigned, he just might end up as Clinton, impeached but kept his job!

I'm guessing mueller probably doesn't have much on Trump at this point and we're half way of a 4 year term now...

I'm just hoping democrats come up with a strong candidate next time so we can limit Trump to a single termer.

[The359]

I'm still of the mind that NK has fucked up their nuclear weapons systems so bad and the country is so bad off that they were desperate for a deal with whomever was in charge, so it's not a Trump success, just he's the one in the seat right now. So I don't think they'd back out if we got rid of him.

[MR2 Fan]

I'm still of the mind that NK has fucked up their nuclear weapons systems so bad and the country is so bad off that they were desperate for a deal with whomever was in charge, so it's not a Trump success, just he's the one in the seat right now. So I don't think they'd back out if we got rid of him.

I agree...and between that and the new South Korean PM has been more positive to reconciliation as well it's what helped.

[FaultyMario]

Yay, we 3 got selected to host the 2026 FIFA World Cup!!


Wait, aren't we in the middle of a divorce? Whose idea was it?

[MR2 Fan]

Outside of NK, I'm trying to think of which other dynasties recently went through more than 3 generations successfully. I'm sure there are some smaller ones that aren't really on the world stage....

[FaultyMario]

European dynasties, middles eastern dynasties, east asian dynasties... Basically you need like a parliament for stability or a lot of fucking money to buy consciences/pay for enforcers.

[neanderthal]

Anybody notice the conservatives fawning over Trumps NK deal, who were lambasting Obama's even better deal with Iran?

[Jason]

Yup.

And it's "respectful" for Trump to salute NK, but weak and disrespectful for Obama to bow to an ally.

[Tom Servo]

Manafort's goin' to the pokey.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, this one thing irritates me like no other about this current white house... I'm surprised none of you complained about this... or maybe I missed it in this long thread...

Anyway, that is Sarah Sander's claim that Bible said God wants people to obey their earthly governments/authorities/laws so that's their justification for their immigration policy... because they are the government, God is telling you guys to just obey us, okay? Next question!

This is not even theocracy, but Trumpocracy. Inching closer to dictatorship, with God on his side! Funny.

[MR2 Fan]

This thread is brilliant:

https://twitter.com/ChuckWendig/status/1007604299713667073

[21Kid]

This thread is brilliant:

https://twitter.com/ChuckWendig/status/1007604299713667073

What's fucked up is when we, on the left, buy into that narrative. "Well, maybe that IS why we lost, maybe we SHOULD be better." We're so in love with the high-road narrative that we police our own on that high road instead of watching the saboteurs driving the road beneath us.



Clap clap clap

[Tom Servo]

Thank god 69-year-old Paul Manafort is finally behind bars. Unchain the door, let the kids play outside. We’re safe. Downside: now that unregistered lobbying for foreign governments is an enforceable felony, most of Washington is going to have to report to jail.


Happy to see the current talking point is essentially "Is a little light treason so bad? I don't think so!"

[drew]

:lol:

[MR2 Fan]

so wait, Tucker is speaking logically?

[FaultyMario]

This thread is brilliant:

https://twitter.com/ChuckWendig/status/1007604299713667073

This one is heartbreaking

https://twitter.com/dellcam/status/1007800088759021568

[G'day Mate]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Df7u8GTUYAACTh2.jpg

... huh? :?

[drew]

It's all part of the plan to feed confusion and doubt on any outcome.

If it all comes to an end and there's nothing, he can say "see, nothing"

If he gets put in shackles "I told you it was a witch hunt"

Giuliani is just making that aspect worse. It's all about the controversy, so people can't keep the shit straight and they have no idea what's actually going on.

[neanderthal]

At a time of great moral outrage, there are 48 Democratic Senators who have signed onto a bill that forbids the separation of children from their parents when they arrive in this country seeking asylum (fuck Joe Manchkin!) and not one Republican.

But billi will tell you the there is no difference between the parties.

When conservatives offer up "thoughts and prayers" after every school shooting but liberals demand reform, remember, "both parties are the same."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why must you spread fake news about billi?

2 parties are definitely not the same, but both are fucked up in their own special ways.

[FaultyMario]

https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1008704668816560128?

Why is the United Nations commissioner for human rights not paying a visit to Session's final solution camps?

Raise your hand if you think treating children like this is unacceptable.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm beginning to think that Trump Admin's downfall won't be about grabbing Stormy's pussy, won't be lying about various crap, won't be Russian related, but will be because of these children.

[neanderthal]

Why must you spread fake news about billi?

2 parties are definitely not the same, but both are fucked up in their own special ways.

You spent the last two years lambasting them as being equally corrupt and morally bankrupt. You were so disillusioned with the Democrats that you didn't vote for the democratic candidate in the general election.

The problem with you extreme (far left) Bernie bro liberals is you spend more time and energy attacking your cronies (near left, and center left) than you do attacking any of the problems in society or the right, near right, or far right. And then you wonder why we don't care about anything y'all say.

[MR2 Fan]

I think it's reckoning time for Trump supporters who might have some slight brain activity....that they can keep their other conservative values (whatever they're worth) but they HAVE to disassociate themselves with Trump on this issue....they shouldn't have Trump as their hill to die on.....this SHOULD be where any even very slightly reasonable person says this is unacceptable.

The line must be drawn here....no further. Sure, I would LOVE to interact with Trump supporters who use the internet, but we all know that a lot of them are bots, paid propagandists in Russia or elsewhere and there's hardly any way to know who we're interacting with. Also, I think it's good that FB got rid of news stuff

[G'day Mate]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child

[drew]

I think it's reckoning time for Trump supporters who might have some slight brain activity....that they can keep their other conservative values (whatever they're worth) but they HAVE to disassociate themselves with Trump on this issue....they shouldn't have Trump as their hill to die on.....this SHOULD be where any even very slightly reasonable person says this is unacceptable.

The line must be drawn here....no further. Sure, I would LOVE to interact with Trump supporters who use the internet, but we all know that a lot of them are bots, paid propagandists in Russia or elsewhere and there's hardly any way to know who we're interacting with. Also, I think it's good that FB got rid of news stuff

Sadly, they know nothing about it, because they only read Breitbart/Alex Jones, and watch Fox News. So to they, all is great, and everything else is just hating from the left and biased "fake news". How I know: a year ago, I started my current job. The first day I had to go on site visits with a guy that had been there 20 years. While in his car, he turns the radio on, to Sean Hannity... I tuned it out. Then, Glen Beck came on, and he turned it off, saying "I don't listen to him anymore, he is critical of Trump."

That, right there, is epitome of the Trump supporter. Any criticism, or bad press is "fake" and just emboldens them to reject reality and objectivity further. All because of the narrative Fox News and their ilk, the WH, and all those with their lips firmly secured around Phallus One, which is100% by design on those spouting it.

It's really fucking scary.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You spent the last two years lambasting them as being equally corrupt and morally bankrupt. You were so disillusioned with the Democrats that you didn't vote for the democratic candidate in the general election.

The problem with you extreme (far left) Bernie bro liberals is you spend more time and energy attacking your cronies (near left, and center left) than you do attacking any of the problems in society or the right, near right, or far right. And then you wonder why we don't care about anything y'all say.

Equally corrupt does not mean they are exactly the same.

BTW, Bernie being far left doesn't mean I'm far left. Bernie just seemed like the most sensible and trustworthy candidate that's all.

Y'all don't have to care about anything we say, just don't expect to have our votes. Hillary was very good, she didn't really need my vote, she won majority of the votes anyway. It's just that Trump was even better at winning more electoral votes.

Bernie could have easily defeated Trump IMHO, but I guess we'll never know... maybe in another 2 years...

[Tom Servo]

Administration plans to announce this evening that the US is withdrawing from the UN Human Rights Council.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1009116131498524673

Guess we're not even bothering to pretend with that anymore.

[Freude am Fahren]

Meanwhile, Space Force!

https://i.imgur.com/vrLcAmB.gif

[neanderthal]

Equally corrupt does not mean they are exactly the same.

BTW, Bernie being far left doesn't mean I'm far left. Bernie just seemed like the most sensible and trustworthy candidate that's all.

Y'all don't have to care about anything we say, just don't expect to have our votes. Hillary was very good, she didn't really need my vote, she won majority of the votes anyway. It's just that Trump was even better at winning more electoral votes.

Bernie could have easily defeated Trump IMHO, but I guess we'll never know... maybe in another 2 years...

Bernie couldn't win a primary with people who are supposed to be aligned to his views, and you think he'd have won against Trump? In a voting population that would now include people who were antagonistic to his views?

You Bernie types are really "special."

[Jason]

To be fair, the majority of "Bernie types/bros" voted for Clinton. Billi and the like are the vocal asshole minority.

[Tom Servo]

It's good to remember that. I'm one of those that voted for Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the general, and like most other normal people I don't feel the need to shout about it constantly.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Neanderthal was the vocal asshole type screaming at me upon Hillarys loss. As if I can only vote for one candidate, otherwise I'm just another deplorable. Fuck that shit.

Billi don't play that.

However it happened, America had 2 wrong candidates running for president. Bernie was the only candidate who actually care about America rather than just himself or herself.

[FaultyMario]

Billi, just go fuck yourself.

On the face of the fascist state the person you voted for wants to establish... Just shove it up your ass, will you?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I voted for Jill Stein. Shove that up your asses.

What kind of fucking democracy tells people how to vote and if you don't vote likewise then you're an asshole or you go fuck yourself? Is that how democracy works?

And you are not even American, Mario. Who do you think you are telling me what to do? I won't presume to tell you how to vote for your president.

[FaultyMario]

You can tell me who to vote for, but i will still ponder your opinion on how much I trust you or any other friend who tries to persuade me, and I will humbly eat shit if I ever vote an autocrat into power. Just remember kids, free elections are just one third of democracy; the other 2 parts are FREE FUCKING SPEECH and accountafuckingbility.

Jill Stein is whitewashing your cowardice.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, I, as a Californian, did not help Trump in any way shape or form. I can afford to 'waste' my vote for a 3rd party candidate in order to send a fucking message to DC.

Both major candidates are not acceptable to me.

People voted for Hillary only because of Trump are the true cowards... It really shouldn't be like this, voting for somebody only because of you're scared of the other candidate. Lesser of the 2 evil game needs to stop.

Anyway, whatever you guys say, just glad Hillary is no more no matter what. Perhaps Trump will be no more soon thanks to the kids!

Bernie Sanders is still on the horizon... assuming he won't die of old age... ;)

I guess I don't absolutely need Bernie, just somebody competent AND trustworthy AND actually care for ALL the people in our nation.

[FaultyMario]

No dude, the thing with accountability is that every decision that you make on public issues affects those around you. Every vote that every Californian and New Yorker and Vermonter and Marylander (states where Hillary got +60% of votes) did send a message to politicians about what kind of shit they could get away with.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Of course votes can affect all of us. However, should voters really bear the brunt of the responsibilities when shit hits the fan?

Hitler won a lot of votes. So basically it's the German Billis who allowed Nazi to happen?

Who's responsible for the 'conditions' which allow Hitler/Trump to gain popularity? Most definitely not the voters/general population. You can't really blame them for being deplorable. They just want a better life and Hitler/Trump made it look like they're able to give them what they want. Better life.

Bottomline is that if we're going to have a true/free democracy, you can't really blame voters for voting for the wrong answer! Why do they put wrong answers on the ballot at the 1st place? If we cannot prevent wrong answers from getting onto ballots, then perhaps democracy is a bad idea.

Anyway, I don't want to drag this on for too long, if any of you wish to continue, perhaps we can move to that philosophical political thread. Otherwise, just shut the fuck up already. It's 2 years ago. I don't regret my vote. I'd do it again if we have a time machine to travel back in time. If you truly have a good reason and wish to convince me, move to the other thread.

[neanderthal]

Of course votes can affect all of us. However, should voters really bear the brunt of the responsibilities when shit hits the fan?

Hitler won a lot of votes. So basically it's the German Billis who allowed Nazi to happen?

Who's responsible for the 'conditions' which allow Hitler/Trump to gain popularity? Most definitely not the voters/general population. You can't really blame them for being deplorable. They just want a better life and Hitler/Trump made it look like they're able to give them what they want. Better life.

Bottomline is that if we're going to have a true/free democracy, you can't really blame voters for voting for the wrong answer! Why do they put wrong answers on the ballot at the 1st place? If we cannot prevent wrong answers from getting onto ballots, then perhaps democracy is a bad idea.

Anyway, I don't want to drag this on for too long, if any of you wish to continue, perhaps we can move to that philosophical political thread. Otherwise, just shut the fuck up already. It's 2 years ago. I don't regret my vote. I'd do it again if we have a time machine to travel back in time. If you truly have a good reason and wish to convince me, move to the other thread.

Yes, motherfucker. Fucking YES!

Do you get it now?

[neanderthal]

No dude, the thing with accountability is that every decision that you make on public issues affects those around you. Every vote that every Californian and New Yorker and Vermonter and Marylander (states where Hillary got +60% of votes) did send a message to politicians about what kind of shit they could get away with.

How this is not blindingly obvious is incomprehensible to me.

It's more important to him(billi) to make his protest vote.

"If you are quiet in the face of oppression, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." Bishop Desmond Tutu. Also translated loosely by me and others to mean "if you didn't vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016, you fucking voted for cheeto satan."

[Tom Servo]

$100 bucks says that anybody who defends this latest shenanigans by saying "We're just enforcing the law" has also said "That ticket is bullshit, I was barely 5 mph over the limit".

[neanderthal]

$100 bucks says that anybody who defends this latest shenanigans by saying "We're just enforcing the law" has also said "That ticket is bullshit, I was barely 5 mph over the limit".

No lie detected!

[neanderthal]

Quoted without comment.
3066

[FaultyMario]

When family separation is stopped something worse is in the pipeline.

If you were to put a number to it...


3. DEHUMANIZATION: One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. Dehumanization overcomes the normal human revulsion against murder. At this stage, hate propaganda in print and on hate radios is used to vilify the victim group. In combating this dehumanization, incitement to genocide should not be confused with protected speech. Genocidal societies lack constitutional protection for countervailing speech, and should be treated differently than democracies. Local and international leaders should condemn the use of hate speech and make it culturally unacceptable. Leaders who incite genocide should be banned from international travel and have their foreign finances frozen. Hate radio stations should be shut down, and hate propaganda banned. Hate crimes and atrocities should be promptly punished.

4. ORGANIZATION: Genocide is always organized, usually by the state, often using militias to provide deniability of state responsibility (the Janjaweed in Darfur.) Sometimes organization is informal (Hindu mobs led by local RSS militants) or decentralized (terrorist groups.) Special army units or militias are often trained and armed. Plans are made for genocidal killings. To combat this stage, membership in these militias should be outlawed. Their leaders should be denied visas for foreign travel. The U.N. should impose arms embargoes on governments and citizens of countries involved in genocidal massacres, and create commissions to investigate violations, as was done in post-genocide Rwanda.

5. POLARIZATION: Extremists drive the groups apart. Hate groups broadcast polarizing propaganda. Laws may forbid intermarriage or social interaction. Extremist terrorism targets moderates, intimidating and silencing the center. Moderates from the perpetrators’ own group are most able to stop genocide, so are the first to be arrested and killed. Prevention may mean security protection for moderate leaders or assistance to human rights groups. Assets of extremists may be seized, and visas for international travel denied to them. Coups d’état by extremists should be opposed by international sanctions.

... would you say 3.6 is too much?

[Jason]

Quoted without comment.
3066

Ugh, that really fucked my neighborhood. Couple places ended up closing down due to harassment. :(

[FaultyMario]

Trump’s Executive Order Turns Family Separation Into Family Incarceration (https://www.thenation.com/article/trumps-executive-order-turns-family-separation-family-incarceration/)
It also opens up military bases as detention centers and indicates an intention to reopen the Flores settlement.



Parents and babies are still going to be incarcerated while those prosecutions continue; it just appears that now they will be held together. And under the executive order, any public agency, including the Bureau of Prisons and the Department of Defense—which would mean the federal prison system and military bases—must make its facilities available for the incarceration of these families.

What’s more, the executive order announces that the Trump administration intends to petition a court to revisit the landmark 1997 Flores settlement, which set forth minimum conditions for the treatment and detention of migrant children. The centerpiece of Flores requires that children be released from government custody as quickly as possible. Separately, it requires that those who are held have access to education, health care and recreation, and that they not be kept in confinement. The Trump administration wants to dismantle those minimum child-welfare protections so that it can, in the words of the executive order, “detain alien families together throughout the pendency of criminal proceedings for improper entry or any removal or other immigration proceedings.”

[Crazed_Insanity]

Concentration camps?

Mexicans are now the new Jews!

If history's any indication, guess which side will lose in the end?

[dodint]

I know we don't talk policy here, but my employer (Army Corps of Engineers) is about to be restructured by the Administration. They're going to take the Civil Works program out of our hands and redistribute it to the DoI and DoT. It always seemed odd to me the Army had such a heavy hand in domestic infrastructure so I support the theory behind it.


Consolidate Mission Alignment of Army Corps of Engineers Civil Works
Move the Army Corps of Engineers (Corps) Civil Works out of the Department of Defense to the Department of Transportation (DOT) and Department of the Interior (DOI) to consolidate and align the Corps’ missions with these agencies. It moves the Corps Civil Works commercial navigation mission to DOT and the remaining Corps Civil Works missions (flood and storm damage reduction, aquatic ecosystem restoration, regulatory and all other activities) to DOI. This proposal increases consistency of Federal policy and actions in both transportation and natural resource management resulting in more rational public policy outcomes, and better Federal investment decisions.

Other items include:
-Standing up the Federal Food Safety Agency to bring all food safety functions under one federal agency.
-Dept of Education and Workforce (DEW) consolidating DoE and DoL.
-Moving the USDA Rural Housing program to HUD.
-Restructuring the USPS to be self-sustaining.
-The Department of Health and Public Welfare:


The Department of Health and Public Welfare Consolidate non-commodity nutrition assistance programs – such as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) and the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) – under the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), renaming HHS the Department of Health and Public Welfare to better capture the nature of its programs. The proposal also establishes a Council on Public Assistance, comprised of all agencies that administer public benefits, with authority to set cross-program policies. The proposal better aligns Federal administration of major public assistance programs with how they are often run at the State and local levels, providing consistent policies and a single point of contact, and reduces duplication in State reporting and other administrative burdens.

From a policy perspective it's a 'Libertarian' 'win' in a practical sense. I doubt much of the list will be accomplished but here's hoping they try and don't just change the name of the agencies and keep the bloat.

[Godson]

Logically it makes a lot of sense.

Let's see if it is only done to eliminate those certain branches.

[dodint]

The main reason I think it's mostly pie in the sky stuff is because the USPS restructure is a daunting task that I don't think they're capable of. Makes me wonder how much else they've pledged to take on that they can't possibly achieve.

[The359]

The USPS needs an exorcism. That being said, I think the problem with anyone in this administration attempting to restructure the USPS is going to be held up by the stumbling block of this Amazon stupidity. Guarantee Trump will want to renegotiate every postage rate deal the USPS has.

Not that he has the power to do so, but still. And attempting to get Congress, who had the power over the USPS to agree to anything as big as a restructering is going to be nigh impossible.

[drew]

Put it on Jared's "to-do" list. Wasn't he re-vamping the entire government anyway?

[dodint]

The USPS needs an exorcism. That being said, I think the problem with anyone in this administration attempting to restructure the USPS is going to be held up by the stumbling block of this Amazon stupidity. Guarantee Trump will want to renegotiate every postage rate deal the USPS has.

Not that he has the power to do so, but still. And attempting to get Congress, who had the power over the USPS to agree to anything as big as a restructering is going to be nigh impossible.

Was hoping you'd chime in. Pretty much my thoughts as well. Executive Office can make recommendations here but ultimately the work would have to be done by Congress and I just don't see that happening. Thanks.

[Tom Servo]

Trump held a thing where he had families of people murdered by undocumented immigrants and touted the border wall and such. People had pictures of their murdered loved ones, so he autographed them.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgUvQcQXUAACtE5.jpg:large

[speedpimp]

Does he have any self-awareness at all?

[Crazed_Insanity]

They all look so happy! (Including the murdered ones!)

[FaultyMario]

Trump held a thing where he had families of people murdered by undocumented immigrants and touted the border wall and such.

Promise we'll still be friends during the war.

[Tom Servo]

Promise we'll still be friends during the war.

Oh yeah, I ain't siding with this orange shithead.

[neanderthal]

The USPS needs only be unencumbered from the ridiculous requirement to pre fund their pension obligations to be viable. This ain't rocket science.

Social Security only need have the income cap lifted to be viable for the next century. This ain't rocket science.

I really hope the next President will unfuck both of these institutions.

[drew]

I really hope the next president isn't worse.

[Freude am Fahren]

Where's the press conference for people murdered by documented crazy whites?

[The359]

The one I saw was someone killed by a drunk driver. Like, apparently non-illegal immigrants don't kill people by drunk driving every day...?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Where's the press conference for people murdered by documented crazy whites?

That's the mental issue press conference! Surely you've seen those?

[neanderthal]

The only thing left to say about the children being separated from their parents when they're seeking asylum is that
Flint still doesn't have clean water
The "tax bill" was a huge handout to the wealthy and corporations
More than 4000 people died in Puerto Rico
They're stacking the courts
Thoughts and prayers have worked after every single mass shooting, we didn't have another one. Until we did.
They just voted to cut Medicaid
They're still after your social security that you've paid into your entire working life
There's "fine people on both sides"
They stole a Supreme Court seat
We are now the infantile 800lb gorilla in a world room of international diplomacy that no longer cares what we think and cares less and less every day
and so much more

[Tom Servo]

There are many times I wish Ted Lieu was my representative.

https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1010646808211517440

[drew]

Ted Lieu is a legend.

[Tom Servo]

Nothing says "Law and Order" like "No judges or court cases"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dgdx5REUwAES6Vu.jpg:large

[neanderthal]

Did I see somewhere that Gorsuch wants to/ would repeal the 4th amendment?

How does a judge even get to say that? Much less a superior court judge?

[FaultyMario]

How does a judge even get to say that? Much less a superior court judge?

This is [The Koch's] America.

[drew]

My only hope at this point, is that the next person that comes in isn't worse, or make it worse. This admin as systematically buttfucked everything. We have long-standing allies that are condemning us for this shit their doing, making friends with people we shouldn't (well, "friends" in his eyes, in mine, we're pawns in theirs), tariffs/trade wars, Fox News.....

Maybe there is a remotely possibility that the next admin will right all this bullshit, but I'm not holding my breath. Every one of those GOP shitbags needs to be retired. They know their days are likely numbered, and they'll continue to let the orange muppet lead the circus so they can get their donors everything they want in the background (See Social Security, Medicaid/Care).

Seriously, fuck these people. ALL of them.

[dodint]

President Trump’s tariff on steel imports that took effect June 1 has caused a southeast Missouri nail manufacturer to lose about 50% of its business in two weeks. Mid Continent Nail Corporation in Poplar Bluff – the remaining major nail producer in the country – has had to take drastic measures to make ends meet. The company employing 500 people earlier this month has laid off 60 temporary workers. It could slash 200 more jobs by the end of July and be out of business around Labor Day.

https://www.missourinet.com/2018/06/22/southeast-missouri-nail-company-gets-hammered-by-trumps-tariffs/

[G'day Mate]

S'ok, they can go work in the coal mines.

[dodint]

Harley Davidson has also moved their European bike production out of the US.

[drew]

MAGA!

[Jason]

I am genuinely curious who these various tariffs actually benefit. Seems to hurt low and middle income workers, but also can't imagine it's helping the wealthy here, but unsure. The whole thing is kinda curious.

[Godson]

That nail company taking a hit is going to fuck up a lot of building costs. FML.

[MR2 Fan]

I'm back after a few days....just wanted to say about Trump: "You just went full facist...never go full fascist".

Also, this movie is becoming scarily more and more relevant

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/he/1/11/V_for_Vendetta.jpg

[SportWagon]

Oh. That movie inspired Anonymous. I see. Oh. It's actually a Guy Fawkes mask, originally.

[Tom Servo]

Welp, Supreme Court upheld the travel ban (as well as gerrymandering in Texas and, per CA, calling the state law requiring "crisis pregnancy centers" to mention all options, as they generally left out abortions seeing as they were more religious centers than medical ones, "likely unconstitutional").

Mitch McConnell really did his job, seems like.

[neanderthal]

That Supreme Court decision; just your friendly reminder that every vote counts.

And that every vote NOT for Hillary Clinton was a vote for the orange shit stain. For his malicious agenda. And the devastation we are now seeing in our courts, borders, industries, and on the internet.

Congrats; pat yourselves on the back.
You should have voted for Hillary.

And no, I won't stop saying it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You can say it all you want, but it won't bring Hillary to the White House, nor will it change anything in the present. It also won't change the future... the future will change when trump supporters get tired of his shit on their own. The more you say, they'll only double down on him more.

I'm not even a trump supporter, your saying still didn't convince me that I should've gone Hillary.

[dodint]

SCOTUS with solid decision in Janus today. Non-union members can no longer be forced to pay union dues to government unions. Bravo. :up:

[Tom Servo]

Justice Kennedy has announced he's retiring on July 31st. You can likely say goodbye to Roe v. Wade.

[Jason]

I actually support opt-in union membership, as long as the individual is left to their own to negotiate their own wages/benefits as well. If you're not paying into the union, you shouldn't also get the union's benefits.

Kennedy retiring (and I'm assuming RBG before 2020) will really set this country back, but it's what white people want, so I guess that's what we get.

[Crazed_Insanity]

28 year old latina democratic socialist ousted a 10 term democratic incumbent in NY.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/26/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-joe-crowley-new-york-14-primary/index.html

I wonder what that means Neanderthal?

There's a video interview... and for some reason, I don't think the CNN reporter is very happy about this outcome. As if, how can you ungrateful people be unhappy about the status quo democratic party?!?!? Look at Trump! You want Trump!?!?!?

Voters can definitely turnout to vote for somebody who'd truly listen to them. Even in a midterm election.

I just hope this 28year old will know what to do now given this opportunity. Hope Master Bernie Sanders will train her well.

Hope other democrats will also learn to take money from rich donors carefully... don't forget regular folks! You can outspend your opponent 10 to 1 and still lose... Hillary is not in charge anymore...

[Taimar]

I'm not even a trump supporter, your saying still didn't convince me that I should've gone Hillary.

Well, you always were an irresponsible fuck-up incapable of taking responsibility for yourself or your actions. So here we are again.

[neanderthal]

28 year old latina democratic socialist ousted a 10 term democratic incumbent in NY.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/26/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-joe-crowley-new-york-14-primary/index.html

I wonder what that means Neanderthal?

There's a video interview... and for some reason, I don't think the CNN reporter is very happy about this outcome. As if, how can you ungrateful people be unhappy about the status quo democratic party?!?!? Look at Trump! You want Trump!?!?!?

Voters can definitely turnout to vote for somebody who'd truly listen to them. Even in a midterm election.

I just hope this 28year old will know what to do now given this opportunity. Hope Master Bernie Sanders will train her well.

Hope other democrats will also learn to take money from rich donors carefully... don't forget regular folks! You can outspend your opponent 10 to 1 and still lose... Hillary is not in charge anymore...

It means a young female Latina candidate in a district that is majority minority, and leans heavily Democratic, won an election over an old white man who was out of touch with his electorate.

And, by the way, she wasn't endorsed by Saint Bernie, patron saint of i'm voting my feelings. She did have the backing of Our Revolution, his super PAC. but he never clearly endorsed her. And, turnout was 15%. Hardly the stuff that'll shake the national picture.

It's literally, the first victory of the "progressive wing" (the liberal tea party!) since Trump's election.

I'm very happy for her. She ran a fantastic race, and knocked on a tonne of doors. She will, I hope, herald a new batch of younger, more outspoken Democratic nominees.

[neanderthal]

I actually support opt-in union membership, as long as the individual is left to their own to negotiate their own wages/benefits as well. If you're not paying into the union, you shouldn't also get the union's benefits.

Kennedy retiring (and I'm assuming RBG before 2020) will really set this country back, but it's what white people want, so I guess that's what we get.

Yeah. You don't get the benefit of the union if you don't pay into it. It's basic common sense.

I'm leaving my union job (oh, by the way, i'm moving to Dallas next week!) and would rather I still was in the union. Talked to our reps yesterday, hopefully we can organise and get union representation at more locations.

[neanderthal]

You can say it all you want, but it won't bring Hillary to the White House, nor will it change anything in the present. It also won't change the future... the future will change when trump supporters get tired of his shit on their own. The more you say, they'll only double down on him more.

I'm not even a trump supporter, your saying still didn't convince me that I should've gone Hillary.

I'm NEVER talking to any Trump supporters in ANY of my posts. Nor in real life. I will say good morning and be cordial but that is the extent of it. I cannot, WILL NOT, have a conversation with anybody who will stand for tolerate racism, misogynism, Islamophobia, sexism, corruption, greed, hate, etc, all because of "her emails." Anybody excusing, neverminding, pooh pooing the above isn't worthy of a single thought from me. And there is NOTHING that can be said to dissuade me of such.

Especially when the security of said emails is said to be the "reason they couldn't trust her/ couldn't vote for her," (wait, weren't you one of those repeating that shit like a parrot?) meanwhile they can't state a single thing from such emails. Other than a lasagna recipe. Literally, only a lasagna recipe. (Was it lasagna?)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, you always were an irresponsible fuck-up incapable of taking responsibility for yourself or your actions. So here we are again.

Nice to see you again Taimar, but I honestly don't know what irresponsible fuckups are you talking about.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm NEVER talking to any Trump supporters in ANY of my posts. Nor in real life. I will say good morning and be cordial but that is the extent of it. I cannot, WILL NOT, have a conversation with anybody who will stand for tolerate racism, misogynism, Islamophobia, sexism, corruption, greed, hate, etc, all because of "her emails." Anybody excusing, neverminding, pooh pooing the above isn't worthy of a single thought from me. And there is NOTHING that can be said to dissuade me of such.

Especially when the security of said emails is said to be the "reason they couldn't trust her/ couldn't vote for her," (wait, weren't you one of those repeating that shit like a parrot?) meanwhile they can't state a single thing from such emails. Other than a lasagna recipe. Literally, only a lasagna recipe. (Was it lasagna?)

I'm not really a talkative person in RL, but I do believe talking to your opposition is the only way to resolve our polarization. Otherwise each side will simply retreat deeper and deeper into their respective bubbles until the day comes we duke it out with another civil war.

Racism, sexism, anti-religionism, corruption, greed, hate, etc can exist in both conservative and liberal bubbles.

In the liberal bubble, people simply pretend they don't exist by practicing political correctness. So on the surface, just like Wells Fargo Bank, it looks like an awesome bank who even cares about gays! But inside, they equal opportunistically fuck over their customers. Also, don't even try to persuade me that in the liberal silicon valley, there's no greed nor corruption nor sexism nor racism... Yes, the mostly white male workforce believes black lives matter! Sure... Current liberal establishment talks the talk, but anyone not brain-washed by this ideology can see that it doesn't walk the walk.

On the conservative side, they've just became more overtly racist mainly because white males are under assault more and more. The term white privilege has pretty much labeled all white folks, particularly males, as bad guys. Since their ancestors have oppressed us, it's now fair game to oppress them back! Surely not all white folks are privileged. There are poor white folks too. No need to lump all of them together into one group. The idea that we need to treat all humanity with respect, but conservative christians are deplorable subhumans that we shouldn't even talk to because they're just a bunch of dumb racist fucks is a poisonous ideology. Even if they are indeed just a bunch of dumbasses, they are still human and fellow Americans.

Regarding Hillary, do you guys really believe she can do better than Obama? Yeah, for sure she can do better than Trump I'll give you that, but she's out of touch with those angry deplorable voters. She really had no intentions of caring what those folks want. Heck, she doesn't even care what the Bernie or bust folks want. She could've easily won my vote by selecting a more progressive vp, but nope. Honestly, I don't understand why she picked that VP. He won't help her shore up Bernie votes, nor will he help her shore up center leaning conservative votes... maybe he helped latino votes because he speaks spanish? But then you might as well just pick a latino vp?

Anyway, America has proven itself that she can overcome racism by voting in Obama. America has also proven that people can still be racist too by voting in Trump, but at least he didn't win the popular vote...

If DNC is serious about "diversity", then their candidate will have to figure out a way to embrace those "deplorable" americans somehow. Not to continue to ignore them. Unless you kill them or deport them or wall them up somewhere, you're going to have to deal with them one way or another. If they feel like they're being 'listened' to, then maybe we can avoid another Trump or perhaps another civil war.

But what do I know. We probably will get another Trump and then have a civil war.

[neanderthal]

Billi.

I don't live in a "liberal bubble." I live in the real world, as a black person and as an immigrant. My name is Mo and everyday I get asked if it's short for Mohammed.

I live with the effects and consequences of bigotry and hate every single day. I'm not interested in any discourse with someone who is willing to overlook the hate, vitriol, disparagement, violence etc that is espoused by Trump et al. That's a non starter; it's not negotiable.

Justice Kennedy is retiring, in case you didn't hear. Which means the Supreme Court gets a new Justice, most likely appointed by Trump. I don't think you fathom the depth of that last sentence.

But this is your friendly reminder that every vote matters. Except for fucking protest votes.

[The359]

And keep in mind how much everyone was freaking out that Obama might do his duty as President and select a justice for the Supreme Court. Now Trump is on his second pick.

[MR2 Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYCPZrOkZx0

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mo.

My point is not all conservatives nor trump supporters are as you described.

Some of them are simply as scared as you to see Obama or Hillary nominate their Supreme Court justices... and simply voted for Trump purely because they can't stand Hillary, not because they genuinely love that pussy grabber.

By ignoring a specific group entirely, you are effectively in a bubble that exists in the real world. It's easy to live in a bubble nowadays.

Conservatives are probably rejoicing now that their votes really matter! However, at the end of the day, a Supreme Court justice just isn't a presidents puppet.

If the court now decides we're pro-life, I'd thank God because for sure God is pro eternal life.

If the court decides pro-choice, I'd also thank God because God is also definitely pro-choice because Adam and Eve was given free will to choose.

No matter which way the court decides, I'm okay with it.

I know current prevailing attitude is if the political opposition gets their way then it's the end of the world....

It's only the end of the world if Jesus returns or asteroids or nuclear missiles rain down on us. Even if those things happened..., that's okay. Hopefully we'll move on to a better world.

Want to make our current world better?

You mother foquen talk to your opposition as if they are your neighbors dammit! Not asking you to compromise your values, but just try to be friends. Surely you have friends with different values? Not even asking you to become best friends here...

[neanderthal]

Fuck that shit!

I will not abide those that excuse or accept racism and hate. And EVERY SINGLE Trump VOTER thought those were not a problem.

And I have no problems comparing them to "good Germans" during Hitlers regime either. We're Their illegitimate government is separating children from their parents for fucks sakes. And sending them to concentration camps.

I don't care what their reasoning for voting the way the they did was. To them a little racism, misogyny and hate was acceptable. I can't overlook that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Plenty of conservatives think family separation is unacceptable, which made trump to reverse his position with another order to stop it... of course not sure how they'll reunite the already separated one...

Anyway, not all trump supporters are alike. Keep staying in your bubble then.

[neanderthal]

Did I say they were all the same? I said they all overlooked racism, misogyny, etc. Don't put words in my mouth.

A lot of conservatives like to talk a big game about family values but dig deeper and they have a lot of skeletons in their closet. their rhetoric doesn't always match their actions. Like cutting food benefits for needy families.

The ones defending this heinous child separation thing: conservatives. All baying the same "if they break the law..." nonsense, with nary an understanding of how asylum works.
You can't ask for asylum until you're on American soil.

[FaultyMario]

Heading to the polls ATM, going to cast my vote for PEACE!

[FaultyMario]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iPt6Nbf3Hheueq7z6

[FaultyMario]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhCICIDUYAE7RWo.jpg

[Cam]

Good luck over there.

[mk]

^

Scalia
Kennedy
Ginsburg
Breyer

Trump

[MR2 Fan]

LITERALLY 3 days apart:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhBUPYQUYAEAz-j.jpg

[FaultyMario]

Good luck over there.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhBUQ5uUcAA7zbR.jpg

Raccoon is the name we give to a fraud operator.

[Tom Servo]

Good 'ol Ron Paul

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhHNshrUYAI2ocx.jpg:large

FWIW, Ben Garrison, as shitty as his cartoons are, didn't make it that way, a bunch of dorks over at 4chan changed the faces to all sorts of nasty caricatures. That doesn't change that Ron Paul posted it for a short bit until everyone went nuts on him and he changed it to just something that says "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS" with a circle and slash over it.

EDIT: Correction, Ben Garrison isn't even the originator of the cartoon at all (should have realized - no muscle bound Trump), presumably the channers put his signature in there.

[G'day Mate]

I just became aware of this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dbvx-ILVMAADjEU.jpg

Wow.

[FaultyMario]

Does anyone know what Fox & Friends said?

It is no longer a bid, you dumbasses!

[Tom Servo]

More fun from him:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhL5VNKU0AAznxz.jpg:large

Man...his supporters are so mad at Harley Davidson that they're traveling back in time to tell themselves not to buy Harleys.

[Cam]

I'll never buy another Motor Cycle™ ever again!

[FaultyMario]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhNeFG_UYAA4gFJ.jpg

Stable genius.

[Tom Servo]

I like that that one immediately followed this one.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhNeDG0U8AAkNDt.jpg:large

A discgrace, indeed.

[The359]

Does he know, that we know, that he didn't actually write his books?

[Jason]

I don't think he knows he didn't write "his" books.

[Dicknose]

Reminds me of a sportsman who "wrote" a book.
The comment was "he has written more books than he had read"

[FaultyMario]

Why Mexico’s New President Is Nothing Like Trump (https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/why-mexicos-new-president-is-nothing-like-trump-695614/)


It’s the same thing much of the press did to Bernie Sanders, the only American political figure to whom López Obrador can fairly be compared. In fact, the resemblance between Sanders and López Obrador is striking. They both favor New Deal-style spending on education, health care and employment programs, and have to deal with detractors crying, “But how will we pay for it?” even though they never question far costlier programs that benefit corporations and the rich.


https://www.270towin.com/historical_maps/1932_large.png


http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhRNk5rUEAYp_PK.jpg

Yup, we chose our own FDR, not an elitist demagogue.

[mk]

Why not huge government in the USA?
I'm sure it could go on at least a generation, maybe two.

During that time the production could swap close to selfsufficient and then so what if dollar sink.

[G'day Mate]

So I just watched the full Gowdy/Strzok exchange (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANohtXQhkQw) after seeing the news reports from CNN (Morning Joe?), Fox (Hannity) and Colbert. Colbert was probably the most accurate - the others were completely full of shit and cherry-picked sound bytes like motherfuckers. Colbert did that too to be fair, I think he probably gets away with it on account of being a comedian.

The news sucks.

[Tom Servo]

I find it's not nearly so bad if you just watch the actual "news" portion of the cable news channels. Where's it's some anchor person who doesn't have a show named after them. The rest are all pundits, essentially opinion programs, and they're slowly taking over the channels entirely. National Public Radio is still probably the best place to get news, which is why the government is continually trying to defund it.

[Tom Servo]

Meuller's brought 12 indictments against Russian nationals, acting under the name Guccifer 2.0, for spearphishing DNC volunteers to get ahold of emails and attempting to hack Clinton's own emails. Notable bits:


An unnamed candidate for U.S. Congress contacted them and was able to obtain hacked emails in 2016.
An unnamed "then-lobbyist" and purveyor of online political news contacted them and was able to obtain hacked emails
No attempts appear to have been made on Clinton's own emails until the exact day when Trump, in a news conference on the campaign trail in Florida, said that he hoped the Russians would hack in there and find those missing emails.
Appears to debunk the whole "Seth Rich" theory, there was no inside job.
Wikileaks was coordinating with Guccifer 2.0, specifically to try to sow discord between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters.


I also saw someone reporting that he has transferred this indictment to be under the national security division of the DOJ, which means firing him wouldn't do much good.

[Phil_SS]

Yup, we chose our own FDR, not an elitist demagogue.

Do you have an electoral college style system or a popular vote system?

Cause in one case we did not choose "an elitist demagogue".

[Freude am Fahren]

An unnamed candidate for U.S. Congress contacted them and was able to obtain hacked emails in 2016.
An unnamed "then-lobbyist" and purveyor of online political news contacted them and was able to obtain hacked emails
No attempts appear to have been made on Clinton's own emails until the exact day when Trump, in a news conference on the campaign trail in Florida, said that he hoped the Russians would hack in there and find those missing emails.
Appears to debunk the whole "Seth Rich" theory, there was no inside job.
Wikileaks was coordinating with Guccifer 2.0, specifically to try to sow discord between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters.



I'm not saying that's collusion, but how is that not collusion. Or at least illegal some way.

His exact words: “I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

Also, I'm sure that Roger Stone has to be involved. Wasn't he BFF's with Guccifer?

[Tom Servo]

I don't necessarily think Cheeto Jesus is great at a lot of things, but maintaining plausible deniability is one of the things he is good at. He just said that he "hopes" they can "find the missing emails", then doesn't promise a reward, but only hints that you might get one from another party that's unconnected to him.

My thinking is that there's no doubt at all that there is collusion between at least some members of his campaign and other members of the GOP and the Russian government. The questions are whether they knew it was the Russian government or really thought they were going through some rogue hacker named Guccifer 2.0, and whether or not Trump himself knew of any of this. When it comes to the latter, I wouldn't be entirely shocked if it turns out he never knew about any of this, and was wandering along Mr. Magoo-like while his underlings were elbow deep in Russian shenanigans.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, I agree with that.

Though knowing whether it was the Russian government vs. just some hacker, IMO is mostly irrelevant.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Clinton's emails led to nothing.

I do sincerely hope Trump investigations won't also drag on and turned to nothing after that dude served 2 terms. If we can't get rid of him right now, I do hope he at least won't be able to run for a 2nd term.

Anyway, point is they need to get this investigation done in a meaningful time frame... and DNC also needs to nominate better candidates and stop blaming people like me for being duped by the Russians and wikileaks. Hillary and Sanders really should've worked together more and perhaps sooner... It really shouldn't be that hard to defeat pussy grabbing Trump.

[Jason]

Meuller's brought 12 indictments against Russian nationals, acting under the name Guccifer 2.0, for spearphishing DNC volunteers to get ahold of emails and attempting to hack Clinton's own emails. Notable bits:


An unnamed candidate for U.S. Congress contacted them and was able to obtain hacked emails in 2016.
An unnamed "then-lobbyist" and purveyor of online political news contacted them and was able to obtain hacked emails
No attempts appear to have been made on Clinton's own emails until the exact day when Trump, in a news conference on the campaign trail in Florida, said that he hoped the Russians would hack in there and find those missing emails.
Appears to debunk the whole "Seth Rich" theory, there was no inside job.
Wikileaks was coordinating with Guccifer 2.0, specifically to try to sow discord between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters.


I also saw someone reporting that he has transferred this indictment to be under the national security division of the DOJ, which means firing him wouldn't do much good.

Important to note, said nationals are members of Russia's intelligence agency, GRU. (basically their version of the CIA, iirc)

[Mirage]

Important to note, said nationals are members of Russia's intelligence agency, GRU. (basically their version of the CIA, iirc)

GRU is also under military control.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It'd be kinda cool to see James Bond or Jason Bourne indicted in their next movies. Wonder how they'll get out of that predicament!

[FaultyMario]

Do you have an electoral college style system or a popular vote system?

Cause in one case we did not choose "an elitist demagogue".

It was in response to Rolling Stone's article's presumptions that our president elect is Trump-like. There was also an Obama-era bigshit who wrote an opinion piece (http://www.americasquarterly.org/content/why-pragmatic-amlo-may-be-here-stay) under the same thesis. Yes, AMLO is a populist, but populism is a plural noun and populisms have different meanings across the world. Much like liberalisms.

On the other hand, I think Trump is a demagogue (as in he'd say what he thinks people will support) and an elitist, because well, his policy speaks for itself.

[MR2 Fan]

so apparently lots of people are upset to learn that Elon Musk donated to a republican Super PAC....except he also donated to democrats PACs also (Honestly I didn't dive into details).

I'm 100% not surprised by this. If you're going to "play the game", most billionaires play both sides...whatever they can do to exert influence to their cause, it's just bothering me when they only report that he donated to the Republican side and not both.

I'm also NOT a fan of PACs, super PACs or the tons of money that goes into politics, but I also don't believe that donating to one or both as a billionaire doesn't mean you support their policies as much as it is to sway influence. I mean that's entirely what lobbyists do...push money to sway political agendas.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If democrats can stay in power, surely he'll give more to democrats.

With solar, EV tax credits and missions to space station, he has to dabble in politic.

Too bad he's not born in the US, for sure he'll make a much better billionaire president.

[neanderthal]

If democrats can stay in power, surely he'll give more to democrats.

With solar, EV tax credits and missions to space station, he has to dabble in politic.

Too bad he's not born in the US, for sure he'll make a much better billionaire president.

What makes you think that? Has Tesla actually ever made a profit from actually selling cars?

I'll just cut the bullshit and give you the answer; no.

They've made a loss EVERY SINGLE QUARTER selling cars. Their profits have come from selling EV credits. And now that they've sold their 200000th car, their EV rebates are going to get phased out, meaning customers won't get as big a rebate, going forward, for going electric by buying a Tesla. They will by buying a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt though, so that's going to make the case for buying a Model 3 much harder.
The Tesla truck [i]may[b] bring some sales revenue but Mercedes already has an electric in the pilot stage and another through Fuso. They also will share that tech with Freightliner; they've already demo'd an all electric Freightliner Cascadia based on the most recent chassis.

But, let's get away from your seeming ignorance of business, and go back to familiar grounds; your definitely, deliberately, wilful ignorance of politics.

[neanderthal]

I don't necessarily think Cheeto Jesus is great at a lot of things, but maintaining plausible deniability is one of the things he is good at. He just said that he "hopes" they can "find the missing emails", then doesn't promise a reward, but only hints that you might get one from another party that's unconnected to him.

My thinking is that there's no doubt at all that there is collusion between at least some members of his campaign and other members of the GOP and the Russian government. The questions are whether they knew it was the Russian government or really thought they were going through some rogue hacker named Guccifer 2.0, and whether or not Trump himself knew of any of this. When it comes to the latter, I wouldn't be entirely shocked if it turns out he never knew about any of this, and was wandering along Mr. Magoo-like while his underlings were elbow deep in Russian shenanigans.


Yeah, I agree with that.

Though knowing whether it was the Russian government vs. just some hacker, IMO is mostly irrelevant.


Important to note, said nationals are members of Russia's intelligence agency, GRU. (basically their version of the CIA, iirc)

Making the legitimacy of Trumps entire presidency questionable.

Hillary Clinton for President.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What makes you think that? Has Tesla actually ever made a profit from actually selling cars?

I'll just cut the bullshit and give you the answer; no.

They've made a loss EVERY SINGLE QUARTER selling cars. Their profits have come from selling EV credits. And now that they've sold their 200000th car, their EV rebates are going to get phased out, meaning customers won't get as big a rebate, going forward, for going electric by buying a Tesla. They will by buying a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt though, so that's going to make the case for buying a Model 3 much harder.
The Tesla truck [i]may[b] bring some sales revenue but Mercedes already has an electric in the pilot stage and another through Fuso. They also will share that tech with Freightliner; they've already demo'd an all electric Freightliner Cascadia based on the most recent chassis.

But, let's get away from your seeming ignorance of business, and go back to familiar grounds; your definitely, deliberately, wilful ignorance of politics.

Do you have anything to say about solar and missions to the space station? All sucking up tax dollars. Though we don't know for sure spacex is profitable or not, chances are, they're not.

Anyway, so you believe Trump is a better billionaire president or you're just arguing with me for the sake of argument?

[neanderthal]

Do you have anything to say about solar and missions to the space station? All sucking up tax dollars. Though we don't know for sure spacex is profitable or not, chances are, they're not.

Anyway, so you believe Trump is a better billionaire president or you're just arguing with me for the sake of argument?

Missions to space should not be left up to the private sector.
Solar belongs on every single rooftop in areas that are predominantly sunny, with battery backup/ storage on site/ as close as possible.

I have not, in any way shape or form, said Trump is a better president than Musk could be. I've simply asked YOU how he could be better as president when his own company can't make a profit in the industry that it's in. It's literally government subsidies that are keeping Tesla profitable.

Am I against the EV credits? No. When mainstream car makers get serious about electrifying their cars as they seem to be getting to that point now, then they can be phased out. ICE engines can go the way of the dodo. Going forward it should be hybrid or electric.


Also Trump is no billionaire. He's mortgaged up to the hilt and deep in dark money. He's a pauper pretending to be a prince and the great unwashed are lapping up his rhetoric.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I hope you know that auto industry is only going electric because of Elon Musk.

Anyway, we're derailing this thread again and you are just arguing with me for the sake of argument.., or perhaps you don't like Musk donating to the republicans?

Whatever your reason for hating Elon, it's all based on your BS political view.

[neanderthal]

I hope you know that auto industry is only going electric because of Elon Musk.

Anyway, we're derailing this thread again and you are just arguing with me for the sake of argument.., or perhaps you don't like Musk donating to the republicans?

Whatever your reason for hating Elon, it's all based on your BS political view.

I never said I hate Elon. I just think he is unfit to be president. Based on facts.

As for he being responsible for the surge in the electric car industry, you're completely, 1000% wrong. Again!!! It was California's mandate that automakers sell a % of cars that are "ZERO EMISSIONS" that kickstarted the whole electric car industry. Automakers were wringing their hands about the impossibility of doing so (when GM had already make an electric vehicle) and Musk just stepped into the void. The regulatory mandate is what prompted the birth of his company.

He realised he could sell cars and make money selling the EV credits to automakers. He just hasn't got the part where he makes a profit selling just the cars.

How are you so consistently irrepressibly wrong? Every time? Every fucking time. Every fucking thing.

[Tom Servo]

I'd just like to point out that Elon spent yesterday calling someone who was rescuing kids in Thailand a "pedo" because the guy criticized his submarine.

Anyway, carry on.

[MR2 Fan]

I'd just like to point out that Elon spent yesterday calling someone who was rescuing kids in Thailand a "pedo" because the guy criticized his submarine.

Anyway, carry on.

that was definitely a step too far.

at this point I start to wonder if our "heroes" when growing up all had twitter accounts, how many would say something stupid like this.

[G'day Mate]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiNAHo-VAAAmbUw.jpg:large

Bullshit.

[drew]

Jesus christ.

[Crazed_Insanity]

that was definitely a step too far.

at this point I start to wonder if our "heroes" when growing up all had twitter accounts, how many would say something stupid like this.

If Tony Stark sent an Iron SUB to a rescue site and the guy said, this will never work and Tony can just shove this PR stunt up his ass!

I wonder how would Iron Man tweet in response... what about batman? Mr. Incredible? Of all super heros, maybe only Jesus Christ won't make such unnecessary comment, but then even he gets crucified by people in the end anyways.

Elon has since deleted the tweet... I guess he realized his tweet was inappropriate.

There's no secret I admire the guy, but I know he's not perfect. Those who are surprised and upset about that tweet and his donation to the republicans are a bit too.....naive?

Yep, Musk should've learned how to tweet like Trump! The rescue was awesome, everyone thanked me for the mini sub! :rolleyes:

[MR2 Fan]

Strasvoitue Comrades! Let us celebrate the Glorious United States of Russia! Vodka is the new national beverage!

[Tom Servo]

Did Putin have anything to do with election interference in mother USA? Nyet! He says he did not! Very forceful he says this, so you know is true!

[21Kid]

I for one welcome our new Russian overlords

[tigeraid]

Wow, I mean.... That was basically one step short of blowing Putin right there on stage.

[George]

Very forceful he says this, so you know is true!

Even funnier if read with a Boris & Natasha accent.

[Tom Servo]

Even funnier if read with a Boris & Natasha accent.

Also works if you've been watching Glow on Netflix.

[George]

Apparently, I'm a little behind in my TV watching.

[Tom Servo]

Apparently, I'm a little behind in my TV watching.

Alison Brie plays a wrestler that's a Russian supervillain who spouts all sorts of hokey propaganda and totally copies the Boris & Natasha accent/speaking voice. It's a good show.

[MR2 Fan]

I have a stupid question, and there may be no correct answer, but....is Putin a communist or a fascist?

I mean, he was ex KGB during the communist regime, but he's seemingly convincing Trump to be as fascist as possible. I don't know how things operate in Russia these days.