Politics

[MR2 Fan]

how to increase the female vote to 100% in the U.S. ...offer a bunch of pumpkin-spice food and drinks for voting

[G'day Mate]

So the 10% that didn’t vote, will they get penalized somehow? Like additional taxes? ;)

There can be penalties applied if you don't have a good reason. I have no idea how well this is enforced.

[FaultyMario]

how to increase the female vote to 100% in the U.S. ...offer a bunch of pumpkin-spice food and drinks for voting

Srsly?

You can leave your man card on your way out, buddy.

[tigeraid]

I love pumpkin spice. :(

[MR2 Fan]

Srsly?

You can leave your man card on your way out, buddy.

I forgot, we can't make humor these days

[Jason]

I love pumpkin spice. :(

Same 👍

[Cam]

I forgot, we can't make humor these days

What you are not seeing is that your attempt at humour is in bad taste in this thread, considering a lot of the recent conversation has been about Kavanaugh/men treating women unfairly.

[Freude am Fahren]

Which isn't what that is.

I found it mildly funny, and I think that most of the women who proudly call themselves 'basic' with a smile and down them by the gallon would too. It's okay to laugh once in a while.

BTW, I love PSLs.

[Dicknose]

So the 10% that didn’t vote, will they get penalized somehow? Like additional taxes? ;)

You get a fine - its about $200
Ive missed voting many times and always got out of the fine.
Acceptable reasons for not voting - out of state, unexpectedly working on voting day (which is always a Saturday), illness.
There are ways to vote if you cant vote on the day, you can do a postal vote (apply, they mail you the stuff, mail it back) or pre-poll where you go to a major voting centre in the week before the election.
So working on the day is not an excuse if you knew in advance you were going to be working since you should use one of the other options.
Ive ended up working (on the election tv coverage) and should have had the day off but issues meant I was working. Also been travelling and missed voting. One I was away and just didnt realise it was a council election. Technically you need to be "out of state" but I was in the state, but fixed that by doing an hours drive to go out of state for 5 mins! Just so I could be honest when I used the "out of state" excuse.
Council elections are also compulsory but are often a lot less advertised so they are much easier to miss! (Council would be US city or county) They do get a lower turnout.

The other useful thing we have is a single body responsible for the election - each state has its own electoral commission that run state and council elections. Then there is a federal electoral commission that runs the federal election. It means the same voting method is used by everyone in the election. The basic method hasnt changed in many years - pencil on paper! No hanging chads.

Lastly - we have "instant runoff' voting, not "first past the post". While it seems complicated, its a much better system that gets a winner that most people want. It means votes for a 3rd party are not a waste. Billi could have "protest voted" giving his first preference to someone, but then still had the chance to say "but Id prefer Hilary over Trump" and his vote would have ended up with Hilary after his top pick was eliminated.

I think its good its compulsory, its a civil service like taxes and jury duty - something you have to do.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not a fan of compulsory jury duty, but perhaps making voting compulsory is a good idea... govt could raise a lot of money in a nation with such low turnout! ;)

Runoff voting also seems like a good idea... we seriously need to free ourselves from our 2 major parties... we need to be able to ‘popularly’ elect our leaders!

[FaultyMario]

I forgot, we can't make humor these days

I found it incredibly patronizing. I'm of the belief that you aim your humor up, not down.

[Tom Servo]

I was going to jump on the "you can make jokes, but they have to be funny" wagon, but then my wife said "Well, he's right, I would totally go." (FWIW, she also votes in every election, we both vote-by-mail)

[Crazed_Insanity]

You guys really need to lighten up. Humor is subjective. Some will laugh and some won’t. I didn’t find it that funny either, but also didn’t find it particularly patronizing. A female has indirectly voiced her opinion regarding pumpkin spice now... it doesn’t taste that bad. Let’s let it go... no need to be arguing over nothing when Billi’s not around. :p

[mk]

I was going to jump on the "you can make jokes, but they have to be funny" wagon, but then my wife said "Well, he's right, I would totally go." (FWIW, she also votes in every election, we both vote-by-mail)

Care to explain the situation, from the beginning?

[Tom Servo]

Uhh, I didn't find the joke particularly funny, but I also didn't find it bothersome enough to post about. Then I mentioned the joke to my wife and she thought it was funny and said that it would get her to go to the polls. I thought that *was* funny, so I posted about it. Then I clarified, just in case, that she does vote, even without pumpkin spiced treats and beverages being present.

Now that I've had to explain the joke though, the funny is gone from it as well :(

Or did you need me to go further to the beginning?



Jacobs, I want to know absolutely everything that's happened up till now.



Well, let's see. First the earth cooled. And then the dinosaurs came, but they got too big and fat, so they all died and they turned into oil. And then the Arabs came and they bought Mercedes Benzes. And Prince Charles started wearing all of Lady Di's clothes. I couldn't believe it.

[mk]

Then I clarified, just in case, that she does vote, even without pumpkin spiced treats and beverages being present.

What is this pumpkin spice thingy?

[Tom Servo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpkin_pie_spice

Shows up a lot around this time of year. Coffee places make a lot of lattes with it.

[mk]

I already checked that, pumpkin spice latte and some others but still can't find the magic.
Maybe it's just too local.

[Cam]

It is a seasonal, novelty flavour here that is added to many products.

[Freude am Fahren]

And it became so popular so quick, that it kinda became a meme.

People like to hate it just because it's popular, and make fun of people that like it by calling them "basic"

[dodint]

https://preview.ibb.co/jYeMi0/75-C1-EE59-7089-46-F2-B2-F0-AE5-BCE1-F152-C.jpg

[Phil_SS]

You guys may hate me but I think that is brilliant. Great job by whoever did it.

[FaultyMario]

Why are you always right, Phil?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Is everyone else laughing with him or laughing at him drinking his Coke?

[Freude am Fahren]

It's actually hanging in the White House

[Tom Servo]

I guess at least it's not a Thomas Kinkade painting.

[Cam]

It is the work of Andy Thomas. https://andythomas.com/2018/07/09/theres-a-subtle-feminist-message-in-this-new-painting-of-donald-trump/

[dodint]

Thanks Cam, I found it without credit assigned, I shall circle back and credit him where I found it.

[Tom Servo]

Better version.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpiFiUYXUAAlH9v.jpg:large

[Tom Servo]

Also, who let Kelsey Gramer into the club?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Both republican and Democratic versions of the painting have a indistinguishable red headed lady approaching the table... wonder how prophetic the artist really can be...

[Cam]

The other painting in the comp is by Hieronymus Bosch.

[Tom Servo]

That it is.

[George]

Cool paintings! I like stuff like that.

I wonder who would win in a boxing/wrestling match between Honest Abe and the Bull Moose?

[MR2 Fan]

Honest Abe, because Teddy would be too busy beating the crap out of Trump

[speedpimp]

Also, who let Kelsey Gramer into the club?

As played by Chevy Chase?

[Tom Servo]

Hey, the president just called a woman "Horseface", isn't that presidential?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dpo3I2SUcAAk-aG.jpg:large

I wonder if Melania considers this "being best"?

[FaultyMario]

Horseface? Why did he have his bodyguard call her up for him after the sex, then?

I mean, we've all done things that we regret once the light goes on, but you kind of just move along, you try to hush it, you don't keep contacting your sorrows.

[speedpimp]

You do if you get off on reveling in those said sorrows.

[The359]

"She knows nothing about me, a total con"

Thanks for confirming, Don.

[tigeraid]

It's no wonder so many people are exhausted with politics. Literally everything has devolved into calling out hypocracy. It's all about identity politics and "gotcha" moments. Trump said "I could shoot someone in Times Square and they'd still vote for me" and he's absolutely fucking right. None of this whining about ANY politician being a hypocrite gets anyone anywhere. It's grade school arguments writ large. How about instead of "Trump used to support the Iraq war and now he says he didn't!" we talk about what a colossal fuckup the Iraq war was and how to fix what was left behind?

No, no, let's just keep slinging shit. Elizabeth Warren, who really is the best "establishment" candidate for the next election, is too busy defending her nonsense Native American "heritage" and pulling a "gotcha" on Trump instead of actually talking about important things. No one, ESPECIALLY conservatives, give two shits what her DNA test says.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump is actually amazingly good at playing these games... that's why he's now in the White House. He's seemingly immuned to shit...

Elizabeth Warren is probably the next best thing DNC has at the moment... somebody who the Bernie folks liked and yet still a woman like Hillary... I'm not sure why you'd say that you'd consider her part of the 'establishment'. Not really sure she's someone the DNC would fully support if it were up to the 'establishment'. Anyway, now thanks to Trump, he has successfully done some damage on her even before she's ready to run...

If Mueller can't stop Trump soon, if economy doesn't tank, pretty sure he'll get 4 more years.

[Tom Servo]

Damn, Barack Obama calling out vote.org. For a team with ten people (and two feline c-level execs), this has gotta make it feel like all that work was worth it.

[MR2 Fan]

Another thing I've noticed in this political climate is the reason why a lot of people on both sides "cling" to a certain candidate, is because a majority of the people in office or running for office aren't on the same page.

People loved Obama because he really spoke out properly and sensibly about issues and it didn't feel overtly polished and scripted like Hillary, but beyond him there weren't many in the party that were similar....maybe Biden which is why he was a good VP.

Trump goes to the absolute extreme of what the GOP had been sort of implying for years but not bold enough to disturb the less far right voters, Trump just says screw it and goes as far right as possible.

[neanderthal]

So McTurtle confirms they are after your social security and medicaid, all of which you paid into, for which he blames for the national debt.

[Crazed_Insanity]

President Orangutan is saying he ain't touching social security though. So there's still a trace of new york city blue in him I guess.

Didn't realize we're actually living in Zootopia!!!

[drew]

Of course. That's why they do it. They new they'd be able to kill SS and medicaaid when they gave their tax breaks. It's justification to take something to resolve an intentional issue they caused in the first place.


Fuck them all.

[The359]

Why have to vote to take away a program or replace it when you can just defund it under the guise of saving American people money?

[FaultyMario]

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-that-s-the-standard-technique-of-privatization-defund-make-sure-things-don-t-work-people-noam-chomsky-87-66-09.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Health insurance, sure, but how the hell do you privatize social security?

My generation is already slowly going the way of saving your own retirement with 401k contributions... knowing that we probably cannot count on company's pension nor social security.

If social security is gone, I'd be able to save money by not being forced to contribute to it in form of tax. If that is privatized, I'm not sure why I'd voluntarily buy from the privatized version of social security. I already have my own 401k or IRA... it's the existing recipients who'll be screwed if government defunds it.

Anyway, the president has promised that he won't mess with it. I trust my minority elected president.

In all honesty, government is in a tough spot. Private pensions are all slowly going away... one may say that I'm entitled to my pension!!! But it's obviously not a very sustainable system. Maybe we shouldn't retire so early... none of these systems were designed thinking that people will live this long while being so unhealthy(extra medical expenses). A reform is definitely needed. Can go on like this indefinitely.

Maybe we need a new system legally mandating people to contribute to their own retirement and health insurance accounts with a percentage of their income. That way, politicians or fund managers won't screw with your money. But then people need to be more educated on how to wisely manage their own money though...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Speaking of when things don't work, people get angry...

What do you guys think of the Honduras migrants?

We're here bitching about social security while there are folks out there simply trying to flee danger and violence, yet, there's really no place for them to go. Mexico has been the nicest thus far I suppose... with their asylum system on the brink of collapse... trying to handle so many cases...

Sigh... really feel for them...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Stumbled upon this video on youtube today...

I don't think I've ever seen Obama meeting with inner city pastors.

PR stunt or not, wonder how the white supremacists thought about their president.

If Trump is for real about following Christ, then I do have faith that Christ can still use him, the dumbest, lamest, lowest of low life, to make America great again...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjy--yU1DXE

[FaultyMario]

What do you guys think of the Honduras migrants?


i'm ashamed of being Mexican right now.

[tigeraid]

http://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44380792_1346431222160440_6910406932482228224_o.jp g?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=5c3fc53d67f507bf7389a746005c1f09&oe=5C8A3326

[FaultyMario]

http://www.bastiancompany.com/patriotic/neverforgete.jpg

Are the maga crowd that gullible? The fucking house of Saud basically sponsored OBL's 20 year long mental wank and on the one chance that the U.S. gets to put the fuckers against the wall, Trump falls for 100 mill? Unbelievable, unfuckingbelievable.

I know there is no evidence that they were behind 9-11 but, come on... what a weak, lame-ass idiot.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It’s $110 billion dude. That is a lot of money. Surely even Hillary Clinton wouldn’t give that much money up easily. Money surely has bipartisan support. It’s hard for either party not to be Saudis’ bitch.

[G'day Mate]

It’s $110 billion dude.

Is it (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/11/trumps-billion-arms-sales-saudi-arabia-still-fake/?utm_term=.04b58cf1e789)?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ok, I probably shouldn’t trust Trumps number, but suffice to say that Saudis have lots of money and I don’t recall US ever sanctioned them even before trump.

[Dicknose]

Maybe we need a new system legally mandating people to contribute to their own retirement and health insurance accounts with a percentage of their income. That way, politicians or fund managers won't screw with your money. But then people need to be more educated on how to wisely manage their own money though...
You mean like Australia has had for about 20 years.
A percentage of your income must go into a retirement fund. Your employer pays it in. Technically its "on top" of your salary.
So you get a 100k job, they then have to pay the extra 10% into the fund.

Pension is only for people over 65 who fall under an asset and income test. There is a different asset amount depending on if you own your own house.
I own my place and I think my car hits the asset limit!
And I cant access the retirement fund till 65 - got to keep working the beach till then!

But we put a system in place to effectively phase out the pension for 90% of people and just have it as a safety net.
There are other pensions (disability, war vet, politician!) with different rules.

[SportWagon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superannuation_in_Australia

[MR2 Fan]

Scary times! IED's found at the Clintons, going to Obama, CNN HQ and a few days ago one went to George Soros. Luckily no one hurt so far, but this is the kind of situation we're dealing with...people driven to insane actions by our news media and insurgent POTUS

[Tom Servo]

It sounds like now they've also found them at Andrew Cuomo's office and Debbie Wasserman Schultz's office.

[MR2 Fan]

and Maxine Waters now....geez

[neanderthal]

Scary times! IED's found at the Clintons, going to Obama, CNN HQ and a few days ago one went to George Soros. Luckily no one hurt so far, but this is the kind of situation we're dealing with...people driven to insane actions by our news media and insurgent POTUS


It sounds like now they've also found them at Andrew Cuomo's office and Debbie Wasserman Schultz's office.


and Maxine Waters now....geez

That's all fake news. There's fine people on both sides. </sarcasm>

[Tom Servo]

On that note, unsurprisingly a number of the right-wing pundits have already claimed that this was all an inside Democrat job as part of a plot to make Republicans look bad. So, there's that...

[MR2 Fan]

On that note, unsurprisingly a number of the right-wing pundits have already claimed that this was all an inside Democrat job as part of a plot to make Republicans look bad. So, there's that...

Yeah, I don't remember that happening when Steve Scalise was shot by a disgruntled democrat. Instead people actually understood it was real and disowned it for the most part. but the GOP is so backwards, as soon as anything happens, the conspiracy theories are front and center.

[Freude am Fahren]

It's not just some weirdo's either. It's a pretty popular stance.

Afterall, the return address is DWS :rolleyes:

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/181025081318-02-de-niro-package-large-169.jpg

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/181025134851-biden-package-blurred-large-169.jpg

Notice 2 new ones, Biden & DeNiro

[MR2 Fan]

Somehow I don't think this will be too difficult for investigators to find, seems very amateur

[MR2 Fan]

In other news there's been a lot of Brexit wrangling from what I'm hearing as well....weren't the Brexit proponents also tied to Russia?

[Tom Servo]

Turn on CNN in my hotel room, sounds like this might be the responsibility of Florida Man.

At any rate, I really do think that we need to learn to be civil and treat everyone else with the respect we'd like to be treated with. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to lead a "Lock her up!" chant about Crooked Hillary.

[The359]

From the look of it, technically that mail never should have even left its destination. Anything over 13oz with just postage stamps has to be taken to a post office front window and the stamps cancelled. If not it is considered anonymous mail and has to be handled as such, which means pulled from the mail stream and kept separate. It should have been returned to the original address (which one of the packages did) but handled the same way we'd handle hazerdous materials. Biden's mail was intercepted in Delaware, which meant someone let it go through.

I've had to deal with these sort of anonymous mailings and fill out the paperwork and segregate them from the mail stream. However I can say that absolutely no one in my facility has taken over doing it in years, and no care is taken to intercept these packages. My own supervisors were completely ignorant of the process and none would call the Postal Inspection Service even when the directives told them to.

Basically, the Postal Service dropped the ball here completely.

However, at the same time, the Postal Service doesn't have the manpower or money to actually handle these anonymous pieces properly. :rolleyes:

[Crazed_Insanity]

So this might be an inside job, or at least somebody familiar with deficiencies of the post office...

Still, is it really necessary to try to assasinate loser and ex-presidents? What would be the point even if you succeed?

Maybe it’s time we split up. Blue states of America and red states of America. Go their separate ways for 100 yrs as trial separation... and then re-examine to see if we can reconsider getting back together or make the divorce final...

[The359]

You're a fucking idiot Billi.

[MR2 Fan]

It's weird how Billi always starts out with some reasonable-ish argument in the first half of his post, then says something completely insane in the second half. I wonder sometimes if he's just a very bored troll

[Crazed_Insanity]

You guys are offended that I called her a loser?

[MR2 Fan]

a suspect has been arrested/taken into custody related to the bombs in South Florida...not much more info yet

[MR2 Fan]

more info, arrested in Plantation, Florida (yes, really) and he had pro-Trump/GOP stickers over all of the windows in his white van.

[tigeraid]

Clearly an Obama psy-op plant!

:|

[Jason]

Their van had the following "art"

https://twitter.com/thereal_mo01/status/1055844641952665600

https://i.imgur.com/DdSXs27.png

[Freude am Fahren]

Yup. Looks pretty standard for that area. It's a suburb of Miami/Ft. Lauderdale area basically.

His windows look like one of those word clouds of your crazy uncle's (or friendly neighborhood roofing specialist) facebook posts.

[MR2 Fan]

yeah, I've seen vehicles like that around here also...maybe we can start reporting them as suspicious too

[Freude am Fahren]

Oh, he's from Aventura. Same town I lived in up until last month. Joy.

[Jason]

Every time I go outside of the city area, I see vehicles like this, so I'm not sure if reporting every single one of them would be fair or right. You can be nutty in your political beliefs without being an actual danger.

[MR2 Fan]

I think when you have photos of crosshairs over public officials on the side of your vehicle, that's worth investigating

[tigeraid]

How the fuck has he not been pulled off the road for that passenger window being completely covered? He can't see shit.

[Freude am Fahren]

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3137&d=1540581949

[Crazed_Insanity]

It’s ironic that this ‘nationalist’ isn’t that white looking. He’s philippino Italian American who pretended to be American Indian for a while until he started getting fixated on Trump.

Obviously has some mental issues.

Is this the fault of presidents rhetoric or media fake news?

Wonder why trump didn’t blame both sides now...

[sandydandy]

I do love how these alt-right maggots (Fox News, Breitbart, etc) talk about false flag shit with regard to the packages. Real classy.

[FaultyMario]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibVpDhW6kDQ

[The359]

Wonderful movie in general. They kicked him out of Hollywood for that.

[FaultyMario]

And yet it was his biggest commercial hit.

meh.

[Tom Servo]

The "270 Landslide" thing stands out a lot to me. I get the distinct impression that not a lot of Trump supporters understand that 270 is the *bare minimum* to win. There are 538 electoral college votes, which divides evenly into 269. You need 270 just to get a majority at all, it's like winning...well, 270 to 268. And yet somehow these people don't understand that that's not a landslide.

[The359]

Just remind them that Obama earned 365 electoral votes in 2008.

[Tom Servo]

That's one of the weirdest parts! His margin of victory is one of the smallest in recent history, but his supporters totally believe that it was this unprecedented landslide, and there doesn't appear to be anything you can do to convince them otherwise.

I mean, you'd think easily verifiable election results that take a couple of minutes to find would do the trick, but they totally don't.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump for sure didn’t have a landslide win, but he received more than 270.

Conservative thought he won by a land slide, liberals thought he won by 270, but truth is somewhere in between. 304.

As for trump himself, surely he thought having 34 more than necessary was landslide enough.

Anyway, in the end, what difference does it make what margin of victory he had... unless we can turn congress totally blue...

[Tom Servo]

No, the truth is not somewhere in between. This is basic math and easily researchable history going back only about 30-40 years.

The image on the van calls 270 a "landslide", when it is literally, by *one single vote*, the bare minimum one needs to win. Liberals also didn't think he won by 270, what in the hell does that even mean? I get that you absolutely love playing Devil's advocate, but ffs, that second line of your post is just nonsense.

[The359]

They all believe Trump's lies that the elections were rigged by Democrats.

[MR2 Fan]

They all believe Trump's lies that the elections were rigged by Democrats.

yes, because it's worked so well for Democrats in the past few elections :rolleyes:

Logic and critical thinking have been overrun by paranoia en masse

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, imho, isnt this all kind of pointless? So what if Trump and crazies thought they won by a landslide? Likewise, So what if he won by the thinnest of margin(if we still have republicans controlling Congress)?

Need to make sure we can take back Congress and the White House. Regardless whether it’s by a single vote margin or a landslide.

Seriously, we don’t need to worry about what crazies think. Do you worry about what I think? ;)

[FaultyMario]

yes, because it's worked so well for Democrats in the past few elections :rolleyes:


What % of the last 50 years have either party controlled a) the executive, b) the legislative?

Is it 65 -35 for the reds on both options?

[MR2 Fan]

Anyway, imho, isnt this all kind of pointless? So what if Trump and crazies thought they won by a landslide? Likewise, So what if he won by the thinnest of margin(if we still have republicans controlling Congress)?

Need to make sure we can take back Congress and the White House. Regardless whether it’s by a single vote margin or a landslide.

Seriously, we don’t need to worry about what crazies think. Do you worry about what I think? ;)

Haven't you seen? the crazies are mainstream...the inmates are running the asylum

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump didn’t win popular vote. Plus, just because all crazy racist deplorable are trump supporters, doesn’t really mean half of America is really like that.

It’s just like on social media, everyone looks like he or she’s having a great life, looking awesome, but reality just isn’t so.

We often end up seeing only the extremes nowadays with all the normal boring things filtered out... some times it might be good to just chill and give social media or even regular media a break... and just pay attention to life around you.

[FaultyMario]

Ugh, I hope the Pittsburgh massacre is not a herald for things to come.

[MR2 Fan]

The NRA is asking their people to bring guns on voting day, in case the liberal mob wants to attack or some stupidity...the NRA is just looking for chaos so people buy more guns.

[drew]

Yep. Not to mention there's a sign in front of most/all polling places stating "no guns, knives" etc. Saw it yesterday.


But then, I forget that "safe zones" are actually shooting galleries, because anyone can walk in and have a go.


Fuck the NRA. Fuck the GOP. Fuck Trump.

[mk]

I don't really understand how GOP stays big.

Maybe reality there is just too different.

[Crazed_Insanity]

GOP isn’t big. It’s just better at winning races.

Trump didn’t win majority of popular vote. Majority of senators who confirmed Kavanaugh represented less than 50% of American voters.

[21Kid]

That's one of the weirdest parts! His margin of victory is one of the smallest in recent history, but his supporters totally believe that it was this unprecedented landslide, and there doesn't appear to be anything you can do to convince them otherwise.

I mean, you'd think easily verifiable election results that take a couple of minutes to find would do the trick, but they totally don't.

Most of the shit trump lies about is easy to disprove. I cannot believe that in a world with so much information available in an instant, that people would fall for such bullshit.

It's sad when people are so scared of the 'others' that they allow themselves to be manipulated so much.

[21Kid]

I don't really understand how GOP stays big.

Maybe reality there is just too different.

Me either MK.

There is nothing that the GOP stands for currently that benefits anyone accept for the 1%.

I don't understand why anyone votes for them. It's far beyond just a difference in ideals.

[SportWagon]

That's one of the weirdest parts! His margin of victory is one of the smallest in recent history, but his supporters totally believe that it was this unprecedented landslide, and there doesn't appear to be anything you can do to convince them otherwise.

I mean, you'd think easily verifiable election results that take a couple of minutes to find would do the trick, but they totally don't.Party politics is a perversion of democracy to begin with.

But right now in some places it's being used to squash the parliamentary process entirely. Some members of some parties are acting as if the members of any other parties are barely human, with opinions not worthy of consideration at all. Party politics has for some gone beyond a means of setting identifiable boundaries around certain points-of-view and interests to a means to discredit other ideas and interests entirely without any proper reasoning processes.

[MR2 Fan]

Dotard now wants to sign an executive order which would remove Amendment 14 of the Constitution.....oh and he's mis-using the military by sending 5,000 armed troops to meet the un-armed refugees seeking proper asylum.

We gotta get him out

[SportWagon]

How many current amendments are repealing previous ones? At least one. For prohibition, I guess.

Ah. Yes, "The 21st amendment repealed the 18th amendment." (Easily findable by searching).

In other thoughts, I see "The Daily Beast", among others, has used the phrase "Tyranny of the Minority". I wonder if T-shirts and buttons are easily available. You know, to make no particular hidden message. You can find a few, but they seems to tend to say "Beware the tyranny of the minority". There's some claim it's a Latin proverb. Just the isolated phrase would seem to work too. It could actually be construed that "The Tyranny of the Majority" was coined counter to that, not the other way around. After all, it makes sense that Tyranny would usually involve the oppression of many by few. The oppression of minorities by others is more subtle.

The point in the current case is to rub in that the holder of the majority did not even win the allegedly democratically acquired position.

[Tom Servo]

Just saw him on TV saying we're the only country in the world with birthright citizenship. Again, patently false and easily verifiable.

And yeah, you could change it by making a constitutional amendment, but that's got a much higher bar than an executive order, which is all he plans to do.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I suppose those things are consistent with being a 'nationalist'.

Kinda doubt an executive order can repeal an amendment. Even if he succeeds in doing that, it's really no big deal other than it makes our nation looks like a stingy ungracious nationalistic asshole.

As for the deployment of troops..., I just hope there won't be a violent clash at the border... demonstrating that US forces can be more violent than Honduras gangstas. sigh...

We can only get rid of him when nationalistic sentiments die down... right now he's just trying to tap into this to try to maintain power...

I'm sure eventually this nationalistic sentiment will blow over... and then Trump will abandon this like that umbrella... actually hopefully the voters will abandon him like that umbrella.

What I'm truly worried about is Hillary Clinton's mixed signals to possibly run again in 2020.

[SportWagon]

Alright. So how many other amendments have been repealed by executive order?

[Tom Servo]

None. Article 5 of the constitution lays it out, you can't "repeal" an amendment other than by adding another amendment that counters it (the 21st being the only one I know of), and it requires either a 2/3 vote from both houses of congress or a vote from 2/3 of the states to call a Convention to propose Amendments which then would require a 3/4 vote from the states to pass.

It's just pandering to his base with a cornerstone of the white nationalist movement, they've been clamoring for this for years. It's amazing how quickly they're okay with the idea of a president being able to just "repeal" an amendment though, I have a feeling they'd feel differently if Obama threatened to do the same with the second amendment.

[SportWagon]

This sounds like really serious criminal intent.


Edit: Or it would have, if Trump had ever said he wanted to explicitly appeal the amendment by Executive Order; I think he was arguing that an Executive Order could be made to prevent some birthright citizenship without even amending the constitution. A little more subtle.

[Tom Servo]

Well, I think executive orders are essentially like filing a lawsuit. You can do it as often as you like about whatever you like, but the courts can overturn it. I have a feeling they'll try to use some weaseling around the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" to try to claim that children born here don't qualify, but I can't see any court upholding it. As it is, most of his executive orders have gone nowhere, but it makes him feel like he's doing a lot so he keeps doing it.

[George]

...but I can't see any court upholding it.

Unless he packs the court with enough of his sleazy cronies.

Not seriously suggesting that will happen, but can't resist piling on against the guy we love to despise.

I do agree with the dirtbag-in-chief on one (and maybe only one) point, however: we can't let 5000 people just stroll into our country whenever they want to. They need to follow the same immigration policies as everyone else who is waiting his turn to enter this country legally.

[FaultyMario]

Unless he packs the court with enough of his sleazy cronies.

Not seriously suggesting that will happen, but can't resist piling on against the guy we love to despise.

I do agree with the dirtbag-in-chief on one (and maybe only one) point, however: we can't let 5000 people just stroll into our country whenever they want to. They need to follow the same immigration policies as everyone else who is waiting his turn to enter this country legally.

But they are following procedure. They chose to move en-masse to the nearest entry point to the United States because -I'm in no way proud to say this- they fear for their life as they cross Mexico. Here's a basic read (http://www.unhcr.org/publications/brochures/3b779dfe2/protecting-refugees-questions-answers.html) on what is a refugee and what are their rights and obligations.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah..., these migrants have nothing to lose. I don't see how anyone can really stop them from trying other than just shoot them all dead.

It'll be extremely sad to see them fleeing the violence from home and then to be slaughtered by US forces.

Anyway, this is really a tricky issue and I doubt even Obama or Hillary or any reasonable president would be able to solve..., let alone Trump.

At least he is doing what his base, and possibly majority of Americans, wanted him to do.

I'd rather him not be so mean to the migrants with actual use of military force, but I'm not sure what other alternative solutions are out there...

If we were a big rich nation, we'd graciously accept and embrace them and help them out, but such times are over. Nationalistic sentiments are global now. Sigh...

[FaultyMario]

They. are. not. migrants.


RTFM

[George]

No one is suggesting "slaughtering" them at the US border (are they?), but I have trouble believing that 5000 people are going to quietly sit there in some camp waiting their turn and not swim or walk across the first time the sun goes down.

If they do, great. No objections from me in that case.

[FaultyMario]

No one is suggesting "slaughtering" them at the US border (are they?).

Well, Trump wants Mexico to use its police forces to prevent them from reaching the US border, which, sadly amounts to the same.

[SportWagon]

Back to Trump. Did he ever say he wanted to create an executive order to repeal/remove the 14th amendment?

Or did he (or can he still backpedal to...) want to effectively reduce its absoluteness with an Executive Order purporting to clarify the application of the amendment in certain (unusual?) circumstances?

So was it (or will it be easily made to appear that it was) only the lying liberal media who created the fake news that he wanted to repeal/remove the amendment?

(Actually the idea he was removing the 14th amendment seems to have mostly originated here at this little board enclave; it seems more like Trump simply wanted to ignore it).

(Actually I find a quotation from Trump explicitly saying he was not proposing to make a constitutional amendment).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-eyeing-executive-order-to-end-citizenship-for-children-of-noncitizens-born-on-us-soil/2018/10/30/66892050-dc29-11e8-b3f0-62607289efee_story.html

Sorry about previously adding to (echoing?) the rumours....


And there seems to be reassuring news that some important Republicans may not even think the plan is constitutional.

[MR2 Fan]

I don't think Trump understands the constitution (too many words)

[Tom Servo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0d21nQBY8o

[FaultyMario]

Stable genius.

[Crazed_Insanity]

They. are. not. migrants.


RTFM

Okay, technically refugees, right?

https://refugeesmigrants.un.org/definitions

Even if they got in, I know US only grants political asylum for political or religious persecutions. Our government doesn't care if you're being persecuted/bullied by your local gangsters. After denying your application, they'll send to right back to Honduras.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No one is suggesting "slaughtering" them at the US border (are they?), but I have trouble believing that 5000 people are going to quietly sit there in some camp waiting their turn and not swim or walk across the first time the sun goes down.


Think about it. 5000 folks intending on going in, whether orderly or chaotically, simply because they have no other place to go... and armed forces intending on keeping them out.

Of course nobody want to slaughter anybody, but what else do you think is gonna happen?

Police can seriously harm US rioters. What do you think US military will do to a bunch of foreigners who refuse the order to get outta here? Whatever happens, it's a no win situation.

If they just peacefully stay in mexico, their babies can become Mexican citizens and sponsor their parents. Unfortunately Mexico has their fair share of gangs too...

[FaultyMario]

They are not rioting, they are walking. They intend to walk 2,000 miles. Think about that.

Is it a political gesture? Of course!

Would you do it?

[Tom Servo]

So, there's this right-wing Twitter troll, Jacob Wohl. Notable in that he has repeatedly claimed that he's overheard liberals in "hipster coffeeshops" whispering to each other how much they like Trump or something Trump's done. But now he's more notable.

He apparently tried to put out a report on The Gateway Pundit (I'm not linking to that garbage), a site that's he's written for in the past, that Robert Mueller had raped a woman back in 2010.

His claim was that a private investigation company called Surefire Intelligence had found that Mueller had raped a woman in a NYC hotel room. There were a couple of problems with this:


The day that this supposedly happened, Mueller was on jury duty in Washington DC
The 19th floor of this hotel where it supposedly happened is a fitness center.


Then people did some digging into Surefire Intelligence. Their domain was registered to Jacob Wohl's email address at the company where he lists himself as the CEO. The picture of the "former Mossad" head of Surefire is just a picture of him that's been darkened (https://twitter.com/JaneMayerNYer/status/1057371849439502338/photo/1). The other employees are all stock image models, with the exception that apparently Bar Rafaeli is their "Tel Aviv Station Chief", and Oscar-winning actor Christopher Waltz is their "Financial investigator" (https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1057369390302277632/photo/1). This all came to a bit of a head when Wohl was giving a statement to NBC news, but then went silent and ended the call when informed that phone calls to Surefire Intelligence were forwarding to a voicemail belonging to Wohl's mom.

Gateway Pundit pulled the article soon afterwards, and we're all just marveling at how intensely stupid this person is.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2018/10/30/unintelligent-design-surefire-intelligence/

[MR2 Fan]

I have two words for Jacob Wohl....YOUR MOM!

[G'day Mate]

:lol:

[FaultyMario]

In today's twit, "how to make it about me" times n-1.

3138

[Tom Servo]

Called it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dq1wGMRV4AE_P9W.jpg:large

[tigeraid]

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but wouldn't that remove his childrens' citizenships? They were born in America to an immigrant mother....

[The359]

Who was married to a citizen. Only need one parent to be a citizen.

[The359]

"Don't touch our 2nd amendment!" "1st Amendment free speech!"

"Let's ignore the 14th"

[Crazed_Insanity]

When too many folks abuse it, I can understand the sentiment for repealing it.

You guys probably don't know that there are also truck loads or buses loads or plane loads of moms from mainland china arriving here just so that they can have US citizen babies. It's not just "mexican rapists" taking advantage of the system.

Some of these wealthy chinese moms, many of them mistresses hidden in the US, can also collect social benefits as well... they can qualify for assistance because they technically single moms with no income. Not sure if these are rumors or state of CA is really that stupid to give social benefits to non-residents.... Anyway, I have seen bunch of pregnant chinese mom in shopping malls personally. Our local malls ended up have lots of stores for expectant moms as a result. Selling expensive baby strollers and stuff... Trust me, local people are not really having that many babies. My kid's school enrollment has been declining year after year...

Anyway, so I'm not completely against repealing the 14th amendment. Because if you don't, Chinese will soon take over America simply thru breeding. I'm sure we chinese folks can easily beat the Latinos out by our sheer number.

Of course as a person with chinese heritage, I don't hate chinese, but I do find these chinese folks taking advantage of the system to be detestable. I'm pretty sure these future chinese kids will be rich and spoiled and without much adult supervision. Can't be good for either US nor China. Good part of the deal is that I can regularly see Lamborghinis, Ferraris, or McLarens around my neighborhood, yet I don't live in Beverly Hills.

[George]

I agree with the post above that many people here apparently will not see.

China plays a very long game.

"Without haste, without fear, we conquer the world."

[tigeraid]

Who was married to a citizen. Only need one parent to be a citizen.

Ah.

[Tom Servo]

While I disagree with the sentiments expressed, as I don't think there's a huge problem with "anchor babies", the 14th amendment is an amendment to the constitution. It's part of the DNA of the country and has been for a little over 150 years. If we decide to change it via the deliberately high bar that article 5 of the constitution set, so be it, but trying to do it via executive order should bring about the exact same reaction to a president trying to do it to your favorite amendment, be it the first, second, fourth, twenty-first, or another one. Which should be "this isn't a dictatorship, and we have processes for this."

[MR2 Fan]

Speaking of not being a dictatorship, what are the odds that once Trump is supposed to leave office, whether being voted out, or otherwise, that he'd actually go willingly?

A lot of people are afraid that he'll try to maintain power, because f- the law

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, he can just have another executive order telling the nation that he has executive power forever and ever! Easy.

Anyway, kinda doubt even the conservatives would support that executive order.

Plus, would the military blindly obey this dictator-in-chief? Or would they overthrow the guy because they're patriots?

Only scenario I'd be afraid of is if we have another major world war late during his 2nd term in office, then he might exercise some sort of martial law to remain in power?

Anyway, considering that he like to eat burgers and coke regularly, he probably won't be able to remain in power for too long even if he does somehow grabbed onto power for more than 8 years...

Wonder how many more years will Mueller take... hope not more than 8.

[George]

trying to do it via executive order should bring about the exact same reaction to a president trying to do it to your favorite amendment, be it the first, second, fourth, twenty-first, or another one. Which should be "this isn't a dictatorship, and we have processes for this."

Of course.

But it is a fresh topic for political discussion instead of the same old stuff about Trump being unfit for the job and so forth.

[Tom Servo]

True, but I enjoy shooting fish in a barrel, and I don't even like guns! :/

[dodint]

Speaking of not being a dictatorship, what are the odds that once Trump is supposed to leave office, whether being voted out, or otherwise, that he'd actually go willingly?

A lot of people are afraid that he'll try to maintain power, because f- the law

Believing this is genuine hysterics. He can't even write effective executive orders let alone overthrow the system.

[Tom Servo]

I'll agree that it's not the *most* likely thing, but he has made it a regular pastime to cast doubt on the legitimacy of elections in the case that he loses or someone he wants to win loses (claiming rampant voter fraud, etc). It all kinda depends on whether the party follows along with it, and so far, they've been surprisingly willing to do that no matter how bonkers he gets.

[The359]

You guys probably don't know that there are also truck loads or buses loads or plane loads of moms from mainland china arriving here just so that they can have US citizen babies. It's not just "mexican rapists" taking advantage of the system.

I'm going to need you to show some receipts. As in, actual numbers.

[FaultyMario]

Yeah well, i can tell you that of those Chinese Nationals being smuggled via Mexico some don't make it thru and then decide to stay and make a life here. Their numbers are anecdotal. Who gives a shit, besides they're industrious people, they bring competence and competition, same goes for Venezuelans, Argentines, Cubans and Haitians in the Tijuana melting pot. Welcome home.

[Tom Servo]

That's kinda how I feel about it. I don't have any numbers to back me up, this is purely just what I feel like I see, but I feel like major cities that tend to have a lot of immigration, some of which is illegal, tend to be better off. That the people who live in those cities don't see it as as big of a burden as people who live in places that don't have as much immigration. Part of what I love about Los Angeles is that it's made up of such a big variety of people, and I get the impression that people in cities like New York feel similarly. It seems like the left-leaning sanctuary cities are the ones that also have the most immigration, and would have the most to gain from not being sanctuary cities if they didn't see an upside, right?

On the downside, that's also exploitative to an extent - I love the diversity of experiences people bring with them, but a lot of them do so by working long hours for substandard wages, often because they don't have a lot of options if they aren't documented. That's one of those situations where you know they're likely better off working under those conditions here than they were at home otherwise they wouldn't have bothered coming, but it still doesn't make it right.

I also freely admit I'm pretty sheltered from a lot of this. I work in pretty upper-end tech, so my livelihood isn't threatened. Sure, we've got a ton of folks from India and other parts of Asia coming in on H1-B visas, but a) every recruiter I've talked to says that H1-B is such a pain that they'd vastly rather hire a citizen and b) if someone here on an H1-B loses their job, they can be deported the next day. I worked with a woman from Egypt who had to jump ship from our company to another the second there were hints of layoffs. I can't imagine many of us here aren't in a similar boat, but I know Roofer had a legitimate gripe that his company made sure to hire US citizens and therefore paid higher wages, which made it harder for him to compete for contracts with companies who hired undocumented workers that could be underpaid, and I'm not sure how to reconcile that with the fact that there are a lot of jobs out here in CA that non-immigrants basically won't do, like picking crops in the central valley.

[FaultyMario]

Anyway, no wonder Mr. Snakeoil salesman went bankrupt so many times in spite of the generous credit line dad gave him.

His remedies are much, much worse than the disease; They're a recipe for disaster.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm going to need you to show some receipts. As in, actual numbers.

https://www.kidsdata.org/topic/31/births-race/trend#fmt=146&loc=2,364&tf=13,73&ch=7,11,8,507,9,73,74&pdist=73

Data only goes to 2013, looking at LA county, even Latino babies are declining, whereas Asian babies are gaining momentum.

Of course, my baby is in that statistic too. Difficult to tell exactly how many babies were born by foreign nationals.., here’s the story why: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-birth-tourism-persists-20161220-story.html

Btw, I don’t find the actual poor Chinese immigrants looking for jobs and better lives detestable, I just find those rich ones abusing the system detestable.

Yeah, they’re bringing a lot of money here, possibly even helped continue the real estate bubble... , but I wish they weren’t here.

[Tom Servo]

Quick NPR article on the feasibility of changing the 14th amendment via executive order: https://www.npr.org/2018/10/30/662335612/legal-scholars-say-14th-amendment-doubt-trump-can-end-birthright-citizenship-wit?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2059&fbclid=IwAR08LFzmrMpVP1s7-tRgak6gQqwrf-Ag7fkjajdi0DRIU2t0T5-HbgO_CiI

FWIW, I think for his base he's found a win-win thing. He rallies them by showing that he's gettin' tough on immigration and, when it inevitably fails, he can blame the democrats.

[The359]

Trump very much follows the "shit I found on the internet" fact checking.

[Tom Servo]

To follow up on the Jacob Wohl story, he and Jack Burkman held a press conference today. The accuser was supposed to be there, only according to Wohl she panicked and got on a different plane going to a different location. As one can easily do, since they don't check boarding passes or anything.

They got to the Holiday Inn for the presser and were mobbed by antifa. Well, there was a bus outside that they were sure was full of antifa ready to mob them at any moment. A bus that looked an awful lot like a normal commuter bus, that left just prior to the presser.

The presser commenced with Wohl giving a statement that conflicted with the handouts he gave and continued with Jack Burkman standing around with his fly open. It ended with questions and answers including Burkman calling Wohl a "Child prodigy who has already surpassed Mozart" and Wohl bemoaning being photoshopped onto a corncob.

Goddamn I wish I'd been there for this.

https://twitter.com/jaredlholt/status/1058018402877476865

[MR2 Fan]

To follow up on the Jacob Wohl story, he and Jack Burkman held a press conference today. The accuser was supposed to be there, only according to Wohl she panicked and got on a different plane going to a different location. As one can easily do, since they don't check boarding passes or anything.

They got to the Holiday Inn for the presser and were mobbed by antifa. Well, there was a bus outside that they were sure was full of antifa ready to mob them at any moment. A bus that looked an awful lot like a normal commuter bus, that left just prior to the presser.

The presser commenced with Wohl giving a statement that conflicted with the handouts he gave and continued with Jack Burkman standing around with his fly open. It ended with questions and answers including Burkman calling Wohl a "Child prodigy who has already surpassed Mozart" and Wohl bemoaning being photoshopped onto a corncob.

Goddamn I wish I'd been there for this.

https://twitter.com/jaredlholt/status/1058018402877476865

:twitch::lol:

[Tom Servo]

Merry Christmas and Happy Birthday - someone livestreamed it.

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1jMKgONNMpAKL

[Tom Servo]

Who was married to a citizen. Only need one parent to be a citizen.

I was thinking that's the case. On the other hand, Marco Rubio was born to non-citizen parents in 1971, they didn't become citizens until 1975.

[dodint]

He is now announcing policy by meme:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1058388700617498625

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrAm6T_WsAAQzID.jpg

Take that, Iran!

I guess.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Rated R for ridiculousness...

[21Kid]

He is now announcing policy by meme:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1058388700617498625

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrAm6T_WsAAQzID.jpg

Take that, Iran!

I guess.
:twitch:

[George]

Good grief!

That reminds me of those big head of state portraits you see on buildings in places like...well...Iran.

https://media.gettyimages.com/videos/billboards-on-the-side-of-buildings-displaying-images-of-ali-khamenei-video-idmr_00082094?s=640x640

And, since I tend to focus on the trivial in life, can the man just not figure out how to button his suit jacket, or is he trying to create a new fashion trend, à la Kennedy with no hat?

[Tom Servo]

Hey, if you don't bother trying to button your suit jacket, you never have to admit that it's time to buy the next size up.

[Tom Servo]

Lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrBjMSdWwAICl1e.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, I was thinking lawsuit, but then I remembered something...

Time Warner's merger with AT&T, brought HBO into the fold, and after saying the merger would have no effect on programming deals with competitors of AT&T or DirectTV (owners by AT&T), they've already taken HBO off of DISH (main competitor) asking for more fees.

[MR2 Fan]

the thing about only one parent needing to be a citizen is also relevant to Obama since no one disputed his mother was American, yet they pushed their insane narrative anyway.

[Tom Servo]

I've also been thinking about the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part. If he's claiming that non-citizens here are not subject to the jurisdiction of the country, does that mean that they can basically do whatever they want without any sort of legal repercussion? Like, could he even do anything about "illegal aliens" since they wouldn't be under the country's jurisdiction?

[dodint]

Detain and deport.

[Tom Servo]

Can you detain if you don't have any legal authority?

[neanderthal]

I'm going to need you to show some receipts. As in, actual numbers.


There's a whole cottage industry. I have no receipts but I know it's there. I've seen the evidence.

Pregnant Chinese woman comes to LA, gets picked up at the airport and is taken to her lodgings; usually a house in the San Gabriel Valley and depending on how wealthy her family is it may be just her and some servants (driver, cook, maid, etc,) or it may be several women living in one house. She may or may not leave the house socially (it's all preference,) but she goes to the doctor (Chinese) for all her pre- natals. Most births are in hospitals, some are at home, others are at birthing centers. After a few months to a year they go back to China with the requisite papers, social security number, etc.

Russians are doing the same thing in Florida.

[FaultyMario]

Sounds like that industry caters to higher income foreigners. Not those being demonized by Trump's rhetoric.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hopefully these us citizen babies will end up more like Trump and not Putin or Xi when they grow up... (not sure which smilie I want to insert after this statement)

[MR2 Fan]

Stable Genius strikes again (bolding mine):


Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

Rumor has it that Senator Joe Donnelly of Indiana is paying for Facebook ads for his so-called opponent on the libertarian ticket.
Donnelly is trying to steal the election? Isn’t that what Russia did!?

[dodint]

Can you detain if you don't have any legal authority?

My reply was tongue and cheek.

The only people I know of that have absolute immunity are diplomats that have negotiated for it.

This is a decent and easy to read primer on Alien rights: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/alien

[G'day Mate]

Have past presidents held the sorts of rally's that Trump has continued doing since election? I know that now it's all about the mid-terms, but it seems to have been non-stop since Feb 2017.

Wouldn't it be funny if you could get a massive crowd of non-Trumpers to go along and just stand there in silence

[JoshInKC]

Generally no, other presidents have not done the rallys, etc as trump is. You could maybe make some sort of analogy to the Weekly Radio Addresses that previous executives have done, but as Trump has continued to do those as well as the nuremburg-style rallys, its not a very good analogy. What it really comes down to is that none of the previous chief execs have been gaping wounds of ego-driven insecurity on the level of trump.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I tend to think it’s also his way of ‘feeling’ his base out... testing the waters at various regions in real time... besides stroking his own ego, he gets to learn which issues to dwell and capitalize on and which issues to drop in his tweets.

In a way, he is representing his base very well. If his base doesn’t have so many deplorables, he would be a great president.

[neanderthal]

Generally no, other presidents have not done the rallys, etc as trump is. You could maybe make some sort of analogy to the Weekly Radio Addresses that previous executives have done, but as Trump has continued to do those as well as the nuremburg-style rallys, its not a very good analogy. What it really comes down to is that none of the previous chief execs have been gaping wounds of ego-driven insecurity on the level of trump.

Generally, most presidents have actually, ... <checks notes> governed.

Trump has golfed and tried to undo President Obama's policy and environmental directives. Oh, and he definitely signed the Tax traversty.

[Leon]

What it really comes down to is that none of the previous chief execs have been gaping wounds of ego-driven insecurity on the level of trump.

Ding ding ding!!

That.

[dodint]

An Idaho superintendent has issued a public apology and placed 14 employees on paid administrative leave after staff at a public elementary school dressed up as Mexicans and a border wall for Halloween.

The images began circulating on social media this week, and they depict more than a dozen adults dressed up in two groups at Middleton Heights Elementary School, in a town of about 7,500 located 30 miles west of Boise. One group is dressed up as stereotypes of Mexicans, replete with maracas, ponchos, sombreros and fake mustaches. The other group is dressed as wall segments plastered with the Make America Great Again slogan.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrA5F4ZU0AAbp5A.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrA5F4cUUAAo7Fk.jpg

13% of the students at Middleton Heights Elementary are Hispanic/Latino.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/03/these-school-teachers-dressed-up-mexicans-wall-halloween-it-didnt-go-well/

[George]

Have past presidents held the sorts of rally's that Trump has continued doing since election?...it seems to have been non-stop since Feb 2017.

As has already been well answered, no, not usually.

However, some have held rallies or gone on tours to promote specific topics. One that comes to mind is Woodrow Wilson's train tour after he returned from six months in Europe after the first world war. He had not been able to get enough Senators to vote to ratify the Treaty Of Versailles and join the League Of Nations, so he took his case to the American people in the hopes they would ask their Senators to do so.

Wilson had a stroke during this tour, which changed his presidency significantly, to say the very least.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/wilson-embarks-on-tour-to-promote-league-of-nations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#Incapacity

Trump's rallies remind me of history's more sinister leaders.

[Freude am Fahren]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/03/these-school-teachers-dressed-up-mexicans-wall-halloween-it-didnt-go-well/

Those damn public schools! Bastions of liberal political correctness indoctrinating our kids!

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't know man...

I wish the right didn't see Obama as a Muslim Satan.

I also wish the left can also stop seeing Trump as a deplorable racist lying pricktator.

There ought to be some basic respect given to a sitting president. It's one thing for late night comedians mocking the sitting president for fun, but if people and media just seriously can't stand the sitting president, this nation is in trouble.

Particularly the media, unless if you have damning evidences to actually bring down the president, then perhaps you should just presume it to be fake news and not report it...

US democracy probably will cease to function very well if this shit continues...

Bar really need to be sit higher in the 1st place for those running for office. If a felon cannot vote, a felon also shouldn't be allowed to run for office. Further, if you have pending law suits, investigations and refuse to disclose your tax returns and cannot resolve conflict of interests... your name really shouldn't be on the ballot... we need to find ways to unfuck ourselves. We don't have to like all elected officials, but we need to be able to respect them...

[Jason]

Something that continues to bother me about reactions to NFL players protesting... people often call it "unpatriotic", yet our country was founded on the back of a protest (Boston Tea Party). Isn't protesting essentially the most patriotic thing one could do as an American?

[George]

Isn't protesting essentially the most patriotic thing one could do as an American?

Yes!

This is why I was always opposed to laws and certainly amendments prohibiting flag burning back when that was a popular sentiment (George H.W. Bush administration, perhaps?). I don't want to see people burning flags, but it should most definitely be legal to do so (assuming proper safety precautions, etc.).

[dodint]

Texas v. Johnson (1989) made it illegal to prosecute someone for burning the flag for the sake of protest, which is right in that time frame you mentioned.

Supporting someone's right to protest does not mean you agree with their cause. Hating someone because they exercise the mechanism of protesting is really shitty, though.*

The NFL player protest was muddled by people co-opting the movement for their own gains. Trump made the kneeling about being disrespectful to the troops. That's where the 'unpatriotic' rhetoric comes from. It's a distraction, and now people that wouldn't have cared at all about the kneeling and it's core cause have been shouting about patriotism and veterans to the point that people are not even really discussing the root of it. The real shame, and I don't speak for all veterans at all, is that most of the veterans I know believe they fought to protect the public's rights, not for a piece of fabric. The flag stands for those rights and kneeling in front of it in protest is just a way of saying those rights are being denied to people who live under the shadow of that flag. It's supposed to be ugly, because the treatment of some minority groups by the justice system is ugly.

*My caveat is when they endanger public safety by blocking interstates or rush hour traffic. It hurts their cause in my eyes because I want them to immediately be stabbed to death with cocktail forks and now I'm not thinking about their cause anymore. We have a group like this in Pittsburgh that co-opt other peoples causes just to push their group agenda and it's wearing thin on everyone but the mayor who is petrified of the image of police moving them out of the intersection in an election year.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That piece of fabric is symbolic of people's rights though.

Unless I believe America as I know it is dead and it's time to do away with it, I would never protest by burning down the American flag.

Just as the presidency, people need to have some basic respect for what it represent whatever color party that person represents... Hmm..., US flags seems to have more red than blue... maybe that's why democrats just can't win... fingers crossed for tomorrow.

[dodint]

Yeah, it's not your choice for a reason. That's what makes it a right.

[JoshInKC]

I wish the right didn't see Obama as a Muslim Satan.

I also wish the left can also stop seeing Trump as a deplorable racist lying pricktator.
Do you see the big gap in the above statement? There is no factual backing for what you said about Obama. But - depending on how you count them there are a minimum of 2, and a maximum of 4 trump descriptors which are verifiable facts. So quit it with the both-sides are mean and unreasonable stuff. There is a clear imbalance in reality here, and one of the sides is definitely wrong.

[Dicknose]

Particularly the media, unless if you have damning evidences to actually bring down the president, then perhaps you should just presume it to be fake news and not report it...

If the President is doing dumb stuff, its their job to report it. Its noticeable because it makes it so easy!



US democracy probably will cease to function very well if this shit continues...

In what way?
Will they skip elections?
Or do you mean the elections will be affected by media reports? - because that is pretty normal



Bar really need to be sit higher in the 1st place for those running for office. If a felon cannot vote, a felon also shouldn't be allowed to run for office. Further, if you have pending law suits, investigations and refuse to disclose your tax returns and cannot resolve conflict of interests... your name really shouldn't be on the ballot... we need to find ways to unfuck ourselves. We don't have to like all elected officials, but we need to be able to respect them...
Maybe instead of stopping these types of people from running, maybe you shouldnt vote for them!
You already have some silly rules - like a min age for President. Why bother with a rule, if you dont like a 30 year old candidate because you think they are too inexperienced, you dont vote for them. I also think the "natural born" is a silly rule, it means not all US citizens are equal as many cant be president. Nice rule maybe 200 years ago, but why bother now. I can see that you might want them to only have US citizenship, but should it matter if they came to the US as a baby?

[dodint]

Had the same discussion a bit ago. Democracy in America is not crumbling. It's just a garbage in garbage out system, and has been since the start. The topics of interest shift but the mechanism itself is largely unchanged.

[21Kid]

Isn't protesting essentially the most patriotic thing one could do as an American?
Apparently not when it's a person of color protesting. :(

Nate :up: agree

Besides... He actually changed his protest at the request of a servicemember.
He was sitting it out previously. But changed to kneeling as a sign of respect.

The ex-Green Beret who inspired Colin Kaepernick to kneel instead of sit during the anthem would like to clear a few things up (http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-kaepernick-kneel-boyer-20180916-story.html)

[MR2 Fan]

I also think the "natural born" is a silly rule, it means not all US citizens are equal as many cant be president. Nice rule maybe 200 years ago, but why bother now. I can see that you might want them to only have US citizenship, but should it matter if they came to the US as a baby?

That rule is already very odd since Ted Cruz wasn't born here but he ran as a GOP candidate, and John McCain was born in Panama...but it was on a US military base so it "counts".

[dodint]

Cruz was hatched, tho

[Cam]

:lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Do you see the big gap in the above statement? There is no factual backing for what you said about Obama. But - depending on how you count them there are a minimum of 2, and a maximum of 4 trump descriptors which are verifiable facts. So quit it with the both-sides are mean and unreasonable stuff. There is a clear imbalance in reality here, and one of the sides is definitely wrong.

Yes, I see a big gap between right and left that's for sure!

If you genuinely see somebody 'definitely wrong' elected to be president, next step should be to find ways to impeach him or perhaps even assassinate him in order to correct this mistake.

If you can't impeach him and don't really want to go as far as assassinate the guy, then perhaps we should just try to endure this mistake for 4~8 years... it makes no sense to hate and to completely disrespect a guy who was "legitimately" elected to office. Yes, respect needs to be earned, but I do believe the presidency should command certain basic respect.

To go back to the flag analogy, I don't think we should force people to pledge allegiance to the flag, but we really shouldn't burn or otherwise totally disrespect it either.

All human beings have flaws. It'd be good for our own health to try to focus on other people's positive strengths, rather than to continually find fault in people and end up pissing ourselves off to no end while the 'definitely wrong' dude continues to live in the white house making deals.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If the President is doing dumb stuff, its their job to report it. Its noticeable because it makes it so easy!
Unbiased fact based reporting is fine, but you don't get a sense that most reporters today actually also show clear disdain for politicians on the other side of the political spectrum? Emotions can draw ratings I suppose. Pretty much everybody has become reality show hosts. Fake news is the name of the game these days.



In what way?
Will they skip elections?
Or do you mean the elections will be affected by media reports? - because that is pretty normal
Yeah, voter turn out is already pretty darn low, I wonder why. And nowadays, we have social media. Might as well stop Mueller's investigations now. It's perfectly normal for rich media or foreign entities to play with voter's emotions and lead them astray...



Maybe instead of stopping these types of people from running, maybe you shouldnt vote for them!
Yep, I didn't vote for them, but it changed nothing. I'm often criticized for not voting for one of the lesser of the 2 evils.


You already have some silly rules - like a min age for President. Why bother with a rule, if you dont like a 30 year old candidate because you think they are too inexperienced, you dont vote for them. I also think the "natural born" is a silly rule, it means not all US citizens are equal as many cant be president. Nice rule maybe 200 years ago, but why bother now. I can see that you might want them to only have US citizenship, but should it matter if they came to the US as a baby?
These rules are nothing in today's standards... the problem is that our 2 parties will continue to feed us garbage candidates to vote for. I suppose we can't all blame it on the party... seriously, who in their right minds would want to run this country anyway? If you are truly that competent and charismatic, there are way more interesting and rewarding jobs that pay more than US presidency. So you end up with mostly seekers of vanity fighting each other for this top job. Only very few have true political aspirations who are in it to make this a better nation... We seriously need more rules to minimize the slime and garbage and maximize competency.

Founding fathers created a pretty robust system that works pretty well for hundred of years, but this system isn't indestructible... it can only handle so much slime and garbage before it breaks down...

[MR2 Fan]

I've found some more irony in the right wing GOP followers. A lot of them are railing against "globalists", whether they are equating it to "jews" or not.

However it is the addition of regulations and trying to prevent jobs from going overseas which the Democrats under Obama tried to do....and on the flip side, the GOP with Trump gave those globalist corporations insane tax breaks and are trying to remove as many regulations as possible.

Yes, in an awkward way, if you look at it really crooked you can see how that kind of thing may seem like an advantage for the U.S. but in general, it isn't

[Dicknose]

These rules are nothing in today's standards... the problem is that our 2 parties will continue to feed us garbage candidates to vote for. I suppose we can't all blame it on the party... seriously, who in their right minds would want to run this country anyway? If you are truly that competent and charismatic, there are way more interesting and rewarding jobs that pay more than US presidency. So you end up with mostly seekers of vanity fighting each other for this top job. Only very few have true political aspirations who are in it to make this a better nation... We seriously need more rules to minimize the slime and garbage and maximize competency.

Thats a problem with politics in most democracies - people arent in it for the power, they might start because "they want to make a positive change", but usually end up just craving power/attention/fame. Some end up scamming the system for money, but plenty are already rich.
Very few seem to be in it for the good of society, rather than their own personal gains.

Combine that with a 2 party system that encourages opposition just for its own sake. It also means their job is actually getting re-elected more than governing.

This is the same in most western countries (although some dont have a 2 party system - they are usually worse, lots of smaller parties and unstable governments)
Getting good candidates is hard, getting parties to consider candidates and policies that are good is damn near impossible as they just want easy voter appeal.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I've found some more irony in the right wing GOP followers. A lot of them are railing against "globalists", whether they are equating it to "jews" or not.

However it is the addition of regulations and trying to prevent jobs from going overseas which the Democrats under Obama tried to do....and on the flip side, the GOP with Trump gave those globalist corporations insane tax breaks and are trying to remove as many regulations as possible.

Yes, in an awkward way, if you look at it really crooked you can see how that kind of thing may seem like an advantage for the U.S. but in general, it isn't

US govt can only regulate on its own soil. The more regulations means more the US companies would like to stay off of US soil to avoid limiting regulations or taxes.

Same with our own government too I suppose, we only lock, torture and kill people without due process off of US soil.

This is where a universal moral code book could come in handy. Unfortunately liberal atheists would have none of it... and conservative hypocrites tend to believe only those liberal atheists need to live by that code book...

Speaking of that book, globalism is like people of the world joining hand to build the tower of Babel... out of selfish pride. If people were really collectively trying to build a better world for all, then God wouldn't step in to break up the world... or there would be nobody so upset to vote for Brexist or Trump or whatever nationalistic policies.

Globalism isn't inherently wrong or evil, it's probably a natural progression, but we need to be careful not to take people in our own nation for granted while getting there...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Thats a problem with politics in most democracies - people arent in it for the power, they might start because "they want to make a positive change", but usually end up just craving power/attention/fame. Some end up scamming the system for money, but plenty are already rich.
Very few seem to be in it for the good of society, rather than their own personal gains.

Combine that with a 2 party system that encourages opposition just for its own sake. It also means their job is actually getting re-elected more than governing.

This is the same in most western countries (although some dont have a 2 party system - they are usually worse, lots of smaller parties and unstable governments)
Getting good candidates is hard, getting parties to consider candidates and policies that are good is damn near impossible as they just want easy voter appeal.

Voters can find fucked up things appealing when emotionally upset. Current trend just can't be sustainable forever. Western democracies will probably fall as a result. Hopefully something good happens before such catastrophic failure.

As for non-western democracies who have had less experience with how democracy works and to also quickly gain access to cheap tech such as mobile smartphones and social media, you can imagine how fake news can run even more wilder over there. Someone as evil as Hitler just might emerge again...

[SportWagon]

Trump's rallies remind me of history's more sinister leaders.

Die E-Mails von Hilary zeigen eindeutig, dass sie eine teuflische Kriminelle ist, die auf die Zerstörung der gesamten amerikanischen Lebensweise abzielt...

[George]

Die E-Mails von Hilary zeigen eindeutig, dass sie eine teuflische Kriminelle ist, die auf die Zerstörung der gesamten amerikanischen Lebensweise abzielt...

Ja! Ja! Verbrenn die Hexe!

[MR2 Fan]

fuck, Ted Cruz projected to win, and Senate holds on....people saying Trump helped the GOP by visiting those states and Kavanaugh was a big part of the decision..........so many idiots

[dodint]

How many disappointments will the Democrats endure before they look inward?

Look who you're losing to. Trump. Cruz, Romney.

Kim Davis lost her election, so that's something.

[G'day Mate]

Hah, Trump has lost the house and retained the senate, but just tweeted ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrX1V5DU0AMY2cE.jpg:large

Predictable.

[MR2 Fan]

minor victories:

CNN.com
"30 min ago President Trump will not speak tonight"

[Jason]

Won House seats, lost Senate seats, not exactly a wave, but at least it's one chamber.

[Jason]

Looks like Dems flipped some Gubernatorial seats, and had some success in state legislature in some areas. Local elections are supremely important, but liberals largely ignore them.

[Jason]

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/statevote-2018-state-legislative-races-and-ballot-measures.aspx

So yeah, Democrats had a lot of good "foundational" victories, imo. It's not as drastic as the blood bath of 2010, but its a step in the right direction.

Full State Control:

2017:
25R/7D

2018:
21R/13D

--

According to CNN.com

Six states have flipped from Red to Blue in the Governor's race: NV, NM, KS, IL, WI, MI

https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/results/governor


This will all help out, heading into the 2020 election, as local legislatures and Governors can have a lot of control over voting rights, polling hours, polling places, etc

[Phil_SS]

If the Democrats vote Pelosi as Speaker of the House they will lose the Presidential Election in 2020.

[Freude am Fahren]

Florida blew it, again.

[dodint]

I'm buying a virtual beer and cigar for Carlo now that Scott Walker has been tossed out on his can. What a tool. A lot of the damage is already done; Foxconn, taking money from the college system to buy a sports stadium, the decision to not upgrade roads that don't get fixed through federal money, etc.

[MR2 Fan]

Florida blew it, again.

As always

Someone on twitter posted something to the effect of: if Florida had the choice between having ice cream and being kicked in the head it would still be an almost 50/50 split

[MR2 Fan]

I'm buying a virtual beer and cigar for Carlo now that Scott Walker has been tossed out on his can. What a tool. A lot of the damage is already done; Foxconn, taking money from the college system to buy a sports stadium, the decision to not upgrade roads that don't get fixed through federal money, etc.

Oh that's awesome! He's one of the worst people possible.

[Jason]

Florida blew it, again.

The one bit of possible good news is that Florida voted to allow felons the right to vote. That's over 1 million possible new voters at play.

[MR2 Fan]

Newsweek: Dennis Hof, who died weeks ago, just won his midterm elections bid by a landslide. He was a republican brothel owner. So republicans would rather vote for a dead pimp than a democrat. :smh:

http://bit.ly/2DrEPDm

[George]

I'm buying a virtual beer and cigar for Carlo now that Scott Walker has been tossed out on his can.

:lol: @ "tossed out on his can"!

And what about Ted Cruz?

Here's a guy who could have been a Texas-sized giant of a man for continuing to stand up to Trump. He could have been the de facto leader of the anti-Trump right and a credible candidate for president again in the future.

But then, he showed the world that he has no backbone and no shame. Why do Texans continue to vote for such a weakling?

[George]

I had just about forgotten about Mitt Romney, until I saw him on the news last night. Governor of one state and now senator-elect from another.

Other than Hillary Clinton, I wonder how many other carpetbaggers have pulled off something like that in American history.

[MR2 Fan]

:lol: @ "tossed out on his can"!

And what about Ted Cruz?

Here's a guy who could have been a Texas-sized giant of a man for continuing to stand up to Trump. He could have been the de facto leader of the anti-Trump right and a credible candidate for president again in the future.

But then, he showed the world that he has no backbone and no shame. Why do Texans continue to vote for such a weakling?

I was watching TYT and they were showing some of the rural counties where Beto campaigned, but Cruz got 90% or more of the vote....in other words, it isn't even an option for them, they vote red no matter who it is

[dodint]

:lol: @ "tossed out on his can"!

And what about Ted Cruz?

Here's a guy who could have been a Texas-sized giant of a man for continuing to stand up to Trump. He could have been the de facto leader of the anti-Trump right and a credible candidate for president again in the future.

But then, he showed the world that he has no backbone and no shame. Why do Texans continue to vote for such a weakling?

He had to spend something like $20m to win a state that should have been a formality. His time is coming.

[FaultyMario]

The one bit of possible good news is that Florida voted to allow felons the right to vote. That's over 1 million possible new voters at play.

That was good news.

California voted no on Prop 10, which I think would have addressed a growing pain in inequality. But much like O'Rourke against Cruz, it faced long odds against the realtors.

[FaultyMario]

I was watching TYT and they were showing some of the rural counties where Beto campaigned, but Cruz got 90% or more of the vote....in other words, it isn't even an option for them, they vote red no matter who it is

Yup, The democratic party has no answer to rural men's worries. No plan, no objectives.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, Florida did okay with its amendments. I voted no on some that I wasn't directly opposed to in full, problem was they bunched 2-3 completely unrelated issues into one. Bullshit, and should be outlawed. Can you imagine if the 1st Amendment was the right to free speech/press/religion and banned the sale of iguanas?

Anyway, one of those amendment I did vote for, and was surprised it passed was the ban on offshore drilling and indoor vaping (yes, you read that correctly, one amendment).

Nelson and Scott (senator race) is going to a recount. Having mailed my vote in, I'm happy. I have no idea how many early/mail-in votes haven't been counted in Florida, but it's a tight race.

[MR2 Fan]

Yup, The democratic party has no answer to rural men's worries. No plan, no objectives.

and the GOP only has to blame immigrants.

[George]

...they bunched 2-3 completely unrelated issues into one. Bullshit, and should be outlawed. Can you imagine if the 1st Amendment was the right to free speech/press/religion and banned the sale of iguanas?

Anyway, one of those amendment I did vote for, and was surprised it passed was the ban on offshore drilling and indoor vaping (yes, you read that correctly, one amendment).

No more vaping inside offshore drilling rigs? Guess they'll have to go back to smoking.

Colorado had a strange one a couple years ago, though not nearly as unrelated as those two. It was an amendment to change from caucuses to primaries to nominate candidates, and to let unaffiliated voters vote in party primaries.

I was for the first but against the latter, but no way to choose one or the other.

Let the iguanas have their free speech, I always say.

[dodint]

The vaping issue was only in workplaces, from my understanding.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Heard Trump speak on the radio on my way to work today...

It's good that he didn't announce another "landslide victory" for the Republicans... he also actually talked about becoming more bi-partisan...working with Pelosi on certain issues... didn't expect to hear such things. Probably not telling the truth anyway...

What I found funny was he likes to stick it to the losing republican candidates by name for not willing to stand with him. Who does that? I guess he does.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I had just about forgotten about Mitt Romney, until I saw him on the news last night. Governor of one state and now senator-elect from another.

Other than Hillary Clinton, I wonder how many other carpetbaggers have pulled off something like that in American history.

As a Mormon, I think he'd fit the bill being senator of Utah.

Just as Hillary, NY is closest to Wall Street, so that fit her well too! :p

[sandydandy]

Just curious, can the Democrats impeach Trump now that they control the House? Or did they need the Senate for that too?

[dodint]

Sessions FIRED.

[MR2 Fan]

Just curious, can the Democrats impeach Trump now that they control the House? Or did they need the Senate for that too?

I believe it's like when Bill Clinton was in office, they can impeach but the Senate would have to confirm to remove from office, so they can technically impeach without it doing anything

[MR2 Fan]

Sessions FIRED.


Let me get my shocked face ready....hold on..... :eek:

[Phil_SS]

Just like impeaching Clinton was stupid and a waste of time, impeaching Trump would be the same dumb act and a waste of time. They need to move the fuck on. Keep the nuclear option for when it is needed.

The House needs to come up with some real legislation and they need to promote like Trump promotes his stuff. Get out and do rallies etc. An easy one would be a simple law that says that the DACA kids are citizens. Put a very simple piece of legislation in front of Trump that would make it impossible for him to not sign it.

[MR2 Fan]

Just like impeaching Clinton was stupid and a waste of time, impeaching Trump would be the same dumb act and a waste of time. They need to move the fuck on. Keep the nuclear option for when it is needed.

The House needs to come up with some real legislation and they need to promote like Trump promotes his stuff. Get out and do rallies etc. An easy one would be a simple law that says that the DACA kids are citizens. Put a very simple piece of legislation in front of Trump that would make it impossible for him to not sign it.

The difference is that Trump & co. are accused of MAJOR crimes which involve interference by an enemy of the state...the difference between what he's done and what Bill did are insanely different. Most people didn't care about what Bill did in his spare time and it was just the GOP in congress who hated him.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Com'on, that's not spare time. Do interns work on spare time? If I have sex in my cube, conference room, or anywhere on company property, company policy is to fire me. Lucky US govt didn't have such policy. Nevertheless, it wasn't just for fun on spare time. All the legal fees ended up causing the Clintons to be nearly dead broke when they left the white house...

Anyway, conservatives do look at marriage infidelities very seriously. If you can't even be faithful to your wife, how can we be sure you'll be faithful to the nation we entrusted to you?

Differences between Trump and Clinton could be insanely different, but both very serious.

The main difference now is that we're sure the cigar was inserted by Bill..., but we're still not 100% sure Putin inserted anything into Trump's ass.

[FaultyMario]

Re: Trump impeachment.

Conspiring to commit collusion is way difficult to prove.
Tax evasion, tax fraud, money laundering-ish crimes are far easier to pin on him.

But those charges would not be as easy to pass thru the senate as something like treason, so my hunch is that they're going to sweep it under the rug with an agreement with the prosecution in which -among other things- he doesn't run for office in 2020.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If that happens, America will once again has a chance to be great again!!!

[MR2 Fan]

I also think it's important to show that these kind of illegal activities cannot go unchecked or else they'll keep happening. However, one of the more disturbing election results (beside the dead pimp, etc.) was where some of them won after being indicted on criminal charges etc.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bar for these candidates are just set too low. Wonder if we'll ever be able to raise that bar higher to prevent zombie scums from winning elections.

[FaultyMario]

The United States is great because it's institutions have allowed it grow, expand, colonize, be the world's loanshark and debt collector at the same time.

Problem with Trump is he has been undermining those institutions. He has made it way more difficult for Americans to compete for greatness.

[drew]

I'll give it a week before the new guy (who has NO qualifications, other than a mini Trump cock holster for a mouth) shitcans Mueller.

Congress doesn't change majority until January, so this shit will be fast.


People are FUCKING STUPID. I will legitimately LAUGH at Trump supporters later next year when the tax cuts start affecting them directly, or when Congress and Senate ram through a repeal of SS and medicare, and they're stuck standing there with gaping assholes.

YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELVES you stupid fucks. You voted to fuck yourselves by gaslight.

[dodint]

And who says Floridians are not reasonable when it comes to elections.

;)

[Freude am Fahren]

The vaping issue was only in workplaces, from my understanding.

Yeah, but that doesn't just mean offices and such, but any business (with exceptions, like bars). So that means no more vaping in restaurants, movie theaters, etc.

It actually just amends our current smoking laws to include vaping. So basically you can only smoke/vape indoors in your own house, smoke/vape shops, and bars (even if they sell food, but it must be "incidental" to their main business of getting you sloshed).

Of course it's Florida, and many restaurants are at least partly outdoors, areas which also wouldn't be included, but a lot ban smoking in these locations anyway on their own.

[Tom Servo]

Back from AZ. Happy to see my state did pretty well. Not thrilled about one of the propositions and a couple of the less-important races, but overall happy.

[dodint]

Yeah, but that doesn't just mean offices and such, but any business (with exceptions, like bars). So that means no more vaping in restaurants, movie theaters, etc.

It actually just amends our current smoking laws to include vaping. So basically you can only smoke/vape indoors in your own house, smoke/vape shops, and bars (even if they sell food, but it must be "incidental" to their main business of getting you sloshed).

Of course it's Florida, and many restaurants are at least partly outdoors, areas which also wouldn't be included, but a lot ban smoking in these locations anyway on their own.

I'm not smoker, nor a vaper.

I do think linking vaping in with smoking as an ideological wrong. For instance, my Dad is a state Corrections Officer. He switched to vaping a while back as a way of getting away from cigarettes which are more harmful for him and second hand smokers around him. Then the prison banned vaping, now he's back on regular cigarettes. I see vaping as an opportunity to embrace something less shitty than smoking, even if it is harmful in its own way.

I don't mind vaping bans for the sake of second hand exposure, that's a different debate. Simply calling it the same as smoking bothers me. Not trying to put words in your mouth, just using you to launch into that tangent.

[drew]

And who says Floridians are not reasonable when it comes to elections.

;)

I'm a transplant. This place is fucked up.


I'm not sure how/why they tacked "Vaping" on to an off-shore drilling bill.

[FaultyMario]

On Sarah Sanders, Jim Acosta and the intern.

We have a saying, here South of the border, there's always two types of workers, those who do their job and those who look after it.