Politics

[overpowered]

I almost posted this in the epic fails thread:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO32SI4CITA

:lol:

http://www.epictimes.com/2014/11/ooops-fox-news-host-megyn-kelly-calls-former-republican-presidential-candidate-mike-fabee/

She sometimes goes off script so it almost seems like she has a brain, but then shit like this happens and we remember that she's a pretty talking head.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJsVKhET3_E

[Freude am Fahren]

Buzz feed is a news source?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Buzz feed could have real news... it's just not as 'trusted' probably because of its name. It's not named as a news source, but as a buzz source! :D

Anyway, that commentary is kinda stupid IMHO. Yeah, liberals are young, crazy conservatives are old and they have no future. I'd rather be on the young liberal side! Well, gee... people age you know. Some day you'll be 72 and you'll be listening to the Rush equivalent of the future... (Hope Jon Stewart won't come to that...)

I really don't see the need to put down the 'other' side. Hey, they're crazy, stupid, old, and they're only a tiny group with tiny dicks... so it's good to be a liberal! Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

America faces problems so big that I don't think either party can solve them. Each blaming the other side and someday we won't be able to kick the can down the road any further.


I think the bigger issue now is who's next and what she'll do.
And with what kind of congress.
mk, we know US Congress is fucked. I really thought Obama was our best hope. I really don't see Hillary as someone who'd bring forth change. I dunno. Maybe she'll surprise me. Maybe it's good to have low expectations.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I almost posted this in the epic fails thread:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO32SI4CITA

:lol:

http://www.epictimes.com/2014/11/ooops-fox-news-host-megyn-kelly-calls-former-republican-presidential-candidate-mike-fabee/

She sometimes goes off script so it almost seems like she has a brain, but then shit like this happens and we remember that she's a pretty talking head.

I think you're giving her too little credit. I think she just accidentally merged the word Fox and Huckabee by trying to talk to fast. I think it was an honest mistake and she recovered or pretended that never happened quite well. ;)

[21Kid]

[/video] This would go along with that report nicely. TV network scorecards (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2014/jul/01/introducing-scorecards-tv-networks/)

It's funny how people always compare how biased The Daily Show is compared to Fox news. Most of what The Daily Show shows is just clips of Fox news and points out how wrong they are.
While a lot of what is on Fox is just blatant lies and scare tactics.

[FaultyMario]

Al Jazeera not trusted?

:rolleyes:

[21Kid]

People keep mentioning how bad of a job Obama is doing. But, I wonder what people would think of a President today if they:

Cut the top tax rate and then raided social security to try and make up the difference.
Increased the national debt from $900b to $2.8t
Spent billions of dollars in weapons and training in funding terrorist
If unemployment raised from 7.5% to 11%
Completely ignored a horrible unknown virus for years
Signed an immigration reform bill into law that gave millions of undocumented workers amnesty
Raised taxes 11 times.

Do you think either side would be happy with such a presidents performance?

[21Kid]

Geez (http://politics.suntimes.com/article/chicago/alvarez-launches-criminal-probe-robocalls-election-judges/wed-11052014-843pm)... :smh:

The Cook County State’s Attorney’s office on Wednesday launched a criminal investigation into a barrage of weekend robocalls that gave false instructions to elections judges — a chaos-sowing endeavor that elections officials called “a serious attempt to disrupt" Chicago voting.
Chicago election judges received misleading and factually incorrect robocalls before the midterm, causing close to 2,000 of them to not show up on Election Day. As a criminal investigation gets underway, the Chicago Sun-Times has tied the calls to two Republican activists while the Republican Party has denied involvement and distanced itself from the party members who it claims acted alone.
An unknown number of election judges received one or more automated phone calls that informed them about an additional required training session or told them they needed to vote a certain way in order to keep their position. As a result, polling places across the city were understaffed and lines reached seven hours in some precincts. A smaller number of voters were turned away from certain locations.
And I bet there will be exactly zero consequence of all this. :(

[tigeraid]

Socially and economically, Obama's presidency has been a resounding success. Republicans spin it negatively or ignore it.

Militarily, he's actually as much of a warmonger as Bush ever was, and has bombed easily as many brown people. Republicans call him weak and cry for more war.

Bi-partisan politics at its finest. It doesn't matter what the President is actually doing, just call him a Nazi and do the opposite.

[Kchrpm]

Interesting AMA with someone who has worked on Congressional and Presidential campaigns.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tabled/comments/2m3avw/table_iama_former_capitol_hill_presidential/

[FaultyMario]

Interesting AMA with someone who has worked on Congressional and Presidential campaigns.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tabled/comments/2m3avw/table_iama_former_capitol_hill_presidential/


Clinton was legendary for getting Congressmen and a room and say "hey buddy, now look we can figure this out." Obama says "I'm right, and that's it." Forgive me, I hope we NEVER elected another college professor as President again

This the kind of stuff I wish I could say to Mo'.

Not a bad person, just a limited politician.

[FaultyMario]

Militarily, he's actually as much of a warmonger as Bush ever was, and has bombed easily as many brown people.

My biggest issue with him actually.

[MR2 Fan]

People keep mentioning how bad of a job Obama is doing. But, I wonder what people would think of a President today if they:

Cut the top tax rate and then raided social security to try and make up the difference.
Increased the national debt from $900b to $2.8t
Spent billions of dollars in weapons and training in funding terrorist
If unemployment raised from 7.5% to 11%
Completely ignored a horrible unknown virus for years
Signed an immigration reform bill into law that gave millions of undocumented workers amnesty
Raised taxes 11 times.

Do you think either side would be happy with such a presidents performance?

Reagan?

[neanderthal]

I don't understand a lot of things. I also don't understand why you need to quote my entire word salad with one sentence in bold and not addressing to it? If you're going to give up, then give up dude. Why doing a half ass job? ;)

Let's leave the Republicans out of the discussion and examine only Obama.



You don't think the fuck ups you listed are serious enough?

I know you don't think he's a saint, but I hope you also understand that I don't think he's the devil either.

However, to me, the fuck ups you listed are enough for me to lose faith in him. He is suppose to change things.

There is a reason why I posted that rhetorical question, about you understanding how our government works. There are THREE BRANCHES of government. The White House is only one.

Ordinarily you could say "yes, lets look at the President's record" peruse through the bills and legislation, and come to a decision about his Presidency based on that. however, this President has had a non functioning Congress, where they've had to pass resolutions just to keep the doors open, where they've shut the government down, where they haven't passed a budget, they haven't voted on items, they've voted against items that have already been passed, signed and legislated, etc.

So, stop pretending that Obama is the only arm of government. If the Bills he had proposed and sent to the House to be voted on, were voted on, you could say "let's remove the Republicans from the picture and examine only the White House."
If that were the case, we'd have single payer health insurance, probably would have been a larger stimulus, the veterans jobs act would have been signed a long time ago, the jobs act, the infrastructure bill, the farm bill would have been different, Glass/ Steigel probably would have been reintroduced, Dodd/ Frank wouldn't have been declawed, and it would have been enforced, the agency that overlooks consumer protections would have had its appointed head in place and would have been functioning, the funding would have been put in place to close GITMO etc etc etc. but all those things didn't happen because the REPUBLICANS vetoed, blocked, didn't bring up to vote, filibustered etc etc etc because that's how the three branches of government work or doesn't in this case.

Any discussion, or judgement of Obama absent the foul actions of the Republicans is nothing more than piling on. The Republicans are who have shut the government down. Those are the facts.

As for his fuck ups.

Lets stop and consider that where you and Mario think that he is the same war monger as Bush was, Obama has not invaded a single country, occupied a single country, and threatened anybody. His rhetoric has never been inflammatory towards other countries.
Bush, by contrast, invaded two countries, occupied both and was well on his way to starting another war with Iran at the end of his Presidency. Throughout all the revolutions and uprisings that happened in the Middle East in the last few years, we sent not a single soul, not a single soldier to risk their lives. The only "engagement" was a few bombs dropped on Libyan Government troops, from a fighter jet thousands of feet in the air.
The Syria thing. No US involvement. Even when the Republicans were calling for us to get involved in a "humanitarian" effort, before such a thing called ISIS existed, they were calling for us to arm and train and equip the very people, the very group that became ISIS, and Obama resisted that call.
And whey ISIS started trying to implement their vision of a Caliphate reaching from North Africa to Asia, and started beheading people,and the same Republicans were now calling for us to do something about them now, not arming them and training them like they wanted to before, but eliminating them, Obama stood firm in his resolve that we would not get involved alone.

Drones. I'm against them. You know what i'm against even more? Involving our troops in extended engagements in hostile territory trying to flush out a warlord or AQ big shot hiding in a village in Yemen. It's called the lesser evil. It's used to describe a situation where you have two shit choices and you try to make a decision and choose the one you think is the least worst. When we have intel about terrorists especially those high up on the AQ or whatever it is front, I want to see action taken to take them out. I would hate to see boots on the ground. Fuck that shit. And trying to get diplomatic permission to act takes time and time is the enemy of opportunity in such case. Send a drone. Drop a bomb. I'm fine with that. It's not ideal. But YOU TELL ME, WHAT'S THE ALTERNATIVE?

NSA wiretapping. Sorry. That's a Bush program. Obama should have ended it. I don't know exactly what his reasons are. Whatever they are, I don't think it's enough. Are we getting good enough intel to act on to take out hostiles and eliminate terrorist acts before they happen? I dont know. If we are, then say so, and i'm reluctantly ok with it. Otherwise, fuck the Patriot Act.

Are those reasons to believe I have been betrayed by Obama. Hell no.

[neanderthal]

Reagan?

St Reagan himself.

[neanderthal]

This the kind of stuff I wish I could say to Mo'.

Not a bad person, just a limited politician.


Getting rid of earmarks on the House GOP gave hardline conservatives no incentive to vote for compromise bills with the President.

Where you think he is a limited politician, ask yourself, how did he get Iran to not only relent on letting arms inspectors back into Iran, but also to get rid of their biological weapons.
Pressure on Russia vis a vis Ukraine?
Look at the surgical precision of the OBL assasination vs the drone bombings in Yemen.
Consider the hijacking of the budget(?) over, whatever the fuck it was, that led to the sequester. They threatened, he hemmed and hawed, they acted, they got egg on their face.

This guy is an astute politician and most people don't realise it. He is playing chess, not checkers. he doesn't apply the same blunt axe to everything like his predecessor. And he, imo, is leaving less of a trail of destruction in his wake while doing so.

I really wish he'd taken care of taxing corporations and the banks that led the recession, but,... he's not perfect.

[thesameguy]

A *great* politician would have been able to break through a, as you put it, non-functioning Congress. Obama's big failure was his inability to get the other two branches of government on his team. The cop-out is to say that was impossible. The simple fact is that he didn't do it. Suggesting anything more is guessing. What this country has sorely needed for nearly a century is a leader - an individual's whose wisdom and wit can transcend partisan politics either by rallying politicians or rallying the populace to the point the politicians have no choice. Obama is a smart guy and likely legitimately has the right answers, but he's no more a leader than Bush was. That is his failing - and it's a failing typical of smart people. An inability to convince people of "the right answers" because, in the mind of a smart person, the answers are self-evident and don't need explanation. A smart guy who can't convince people to follow him is no better than a dumb guy who can lead a country in the wrong direction.

[mk]

My prediction is that Hilly is not exactly hard on for compromises.

[FaultyMario]

an individual's whose wisdom and wit can transcend partisan politics either by rallying politicians or rallying the populace to the point the politicians have no choice.

That's the emotional part of the betrayal, Obama made the people believe he was rallying the country into a progressive regime of forward thinking capitalism, instead he defaulted on his political momentum and got stuck in the muddy banks of the Potomac. He gets A+ on capitalism. though.

Like other people on this board have said, "Sure Mr. Chicago, we disagree on a lot of ideological points, you and me, but we both believe that a strong push for infrastructure investment is badly needed in the middle of America to kick our gears into motion, and if you say you're gonna do it, in spite of all our disagreements; You have my vote, Professor Dude!" And He did not deliver on that compromise.

He got the swing voters by promising certain elements of pragmatic government he simply wasn't able to deliver on. Because he either watered down his proposals [Infrastructure, Healthcare] for the sake of bipartisan support or completely ignored those compromises [Patriot Act, Latino issues].

[21Kid]

Reagan?
St Reagan himself.Yup. ;)

[21Kid]

A *great* politician would have been able to break through a, as you put it, non-functioning Congress. Obama's big failure was his inability to get the other two branches of government on his team. The cop-out is to say that was impossible. The simple fact is that he didn't do it. Suggesting anything more is guessing. What this country has sorely needed for nearly a century is a leader - an individual's whose wisdom and wit can transcend partisan politics either by rallying politicians or rallying the populace to the point the politicians have no choice. Obama is a smart guy and likely legitimately has the right answers, but he's no more a leader than Bush was. That is his failing - and it's a failing typical of smart people. An inability to convince people of "the right answers" because, in the mind of a smart person, the answers are self-evident and don't need explanation. A smart guy who can't convince people to follow him is no better than a dumb guy who can lead a country in the wrong direction.I see what you mean and I agree to a point. In the beginning, I think he did try to compromise. Look at what the ACA turned into. A mere shadow of what it was initially intended. And even though a lot of it is due compromise and are Republican ideas (which they ironically want to overturn)... it did get done. And it's better than what we had before.

But, when they go on record stating that they are not going to work with you, and cry, kick and scream, when they don't get 100% of their way, how far can you really compromise?

Sure, he wasn't able to convince them to work with him. But, I don't think that would ever have happened with this congress, honestly. They aren't interested in compromise. They want everything their way or nothing. That's why they shut down the government.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, I held Obama to a higher standard. I'm sure other than the crazy republican extremists, nearly everyone recognizes that he's far better than W and US congress is fucked up. No argument there. Nobody's trying to pin all of America's problems onto Obama here.

But enough of blaming the other side. It's obvious we ain't never getting rid of the other side unless we have another civil war... heck, even a civil war won't guarantee you that we'll finally split up...

Just by examining the president alone, who the fuck cares about ACA? Even if it Obama completely got his version passed... so what if everyone got affordable and awesome health insurance if some capitalistic pigs decided fuck with the system and short circuit the entire economy again? When we're completely financially crippled... and I'm pretty sure tax payers won't be able to pick up the bill again and again... So what if we have affordable healthcare? Which is more important here?

Endorsing gay marriage rights is also very nice, but when you are fucking with people's basic civil/human rights with drones and secret wiretapping, you guys are happy with that? Yeah, now gays can marry, but we'll continue on with W's patriot act and God knows what else behind the classified doors... if it weren't for Edward Snowden.

Seriously, what's more important here?

Yes, compared to the Republicans, I think Obama is doing a much better job; however, I'm not comparing him to the fucked up Republicans here.

I'm comparing his job performance to his campaign promises. If you guys still think I'm stupid and don't even know there are 3 branches of the government... so be it.

His job performance really has nothing to do with my stupidity, american voter's stupidity, congressional dysfunctionality nor W's retardedness. He had a tough job that's for sure. He asked us for it, we gave it to him... in the end, I just don't think he delivered on his promises. Yeah, it's the republican's fault. It's the stupid American's fault for voting in such a lame congress, but Obama's at fault too. His approval rating or popularity is declining universally year after year. It's not all due to the Republicans.

Anyway, it's not like he's up for another reelection, if you die hard fans wish to continue your support, go right ahead. :p

If he IS allow to run again..., chances are I probably will prefer him over the whatever Republicans have to offer. However, I probably just will choose to not vote. Enough of the lesser of the 2 evil crap.

[Crazed_Insanity]

To switch topic a bit..., Taiwan Taipei's mayoral race has an interesting candidate. A prestigious doctor, entered the race with grass root support. Very similar to Obama's beginning, except that he's no politician... furthermore, he entered as an independent. Taiwan's 2 parties are extremely polarized just like in the US. The guy is determined to stay out of that kind of politics and want to focus on fixing the city's problems. He chose not to plaster walls or TV programming with political ads. (Not just negative ads, but no ads!) He himself later on admit that such tactic was actually because his campaign doesn't have that much money! :p But anyway, what's truly amazing was that later on when his campaign gained traction, he actually stopped fundraising... saying he has enough money! NO MORE donations!

I was like... WOW!

I hope the guy wins and really bring about change in Taiwan.

I wish someone like that can emerge in the US.

[thesameguy]

To a large degree that's how we got the Governator. And what ended up happening is his "I don't need your support or your money" translated directly into his inability to do anything. When you have One Guy popping up amidst an army of entrenched assholes his only two options are make the army look bad, or become an asshole himself. It's pretty obvious what happens most of the time.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Can't disagree with you there.

However, a few things this Taiwanese guy has over Arnold is that he's not a rich celebrity. He's not in it for fame. He's famous in his field but it's obvious he doesn't work for fame nor money. Unlike a Hollywood star who even end up marrying someone famous. He's also not only about 'I don't need your money', I think his motto is he doesn't like money! He himself has a modest living eventhough both he and his wife are doctors. Last but not least, remember Arnold came in as a 'Republican'? Probably not the most brilliant idea in such a liberal state. At least Ronald Reagan is a good actor. I don't think the same can be said for Arnold! ;)

Furthermore, this guy has graduated as #1 student in the nation's #1 school throughout his student career and even in his field, he's also top doctor in Asia and perhaps even from a global perspective. So he definitely has the brain power and the dedication needed to get whatever job done and done well.

He also aim to only be a 1 term mayor. He said the only way to do the right things is to never worry about re-election.

Anyway, he might win the election, but he might also disappoint like the Governator and Obama... hope not. We'll see. The guy has brain, not after fame nor money, not playing partisan politics, strong integrity(some govenment officials and news media have attempted some corruption charges to smear his reputation, but all efforts so far has only proven how amazingly uncorruptible he had been as a reputable doctor!) So fingers crossed.

[neanderthal]

A *great* politician would have been able to break through a, as you put it, non-functioning Congress. Obama's big failure was his inability to get the other two branches of government on his team. The cop-out is to say that was impossible. The simple fact is that he didn't do it. Suggesting anything more is guessing. What this country has sorely needed for nearly a century is a leader - an individual's whose wisdom and wit can transcend partisan politics either by rallying politicians or rallying the populace to the point the politicians have no choice. Obama is a smart guy and likely legitimately has the right answers, but he's no more a leader than Bush was. That is his failing - and it's a failing typical of smart people. An inability to convince people of "the right answers" because, in the mind of a smart person, the answers are self-evident and don't need explanation. A smart guy who can't convince people to follow him is no better than a dumb guy who can lead a country in the wrong direction.

You're right about everything except,.... the Republicans set out to oppose him at every step. Even when they looked foolish, childish, stupid, obtuse, they locked arms and all said the same thing, voted the same way, etc. There's no getting around that, no matter how good you are.

And that's the point really, that the opposition to Obama is so much greater than the man, than the Presidency, than... whatever, that saying "he should have just figure it out," is analogous to a copout to what he's achieved despite that opposition. We aren't talking about minor setbacks or slight hindrances, but vigorous opposition.

Imagine you're trying to rebuild your transmission and the person who's supposed to be building it with you keeps "misplacing" tools and parts and saying you've got a phone call on the house phone etc. These guys have vigorously opposed and done very little compromising. There's a reason why Obama's "least favourable rating" is four times greater than theirs.

[neanderthal]

I see what you mean and I agree to a point. In the beginning, I think he did try to compromise. Look at what the ACA turned into. A mere shadow of what it was initially intended. And even though a lot of it is due compromise and are Republican ideas (which they ironically want to overturn)... it did get done. And it's better than what we had before.

But, when they go on record stating that they are not going to work with you, and cry, kick and scream, when they don't get 100% of their way, how far can you really compromise?

Sure, he wasn't able to convince them to work with him. But, I don't think that would ever have happened with this congress, honestly. They aren't interested in compromise. They want everything their way or nothing. That's why they shut down the government.

Zactly.

And in the meantime they've smeared him at every opportunity and repeated their smears so often and so widely that it's accepted to think of this as a failed presidency. They've repeatedly said "worst President ever" so much that its sunk into the collective conscience and people who don't follow politics can be caught saying it. When challenged, such people can't even clearly state what about his presidency is so bad.

[21Kid]

There's a reason why Obama's "least favourable rating" is four times greater than theirs. They don't care. They can just wait it out until the next president.

[FaultyMario]

Zactly.

And in the meantime they've smeared him at every opportunity and repeated their smears so often and so widely that it's accepted to think of this as a failed presidency.

Bullshit. (http://media.cq.com/votestudies/)

As I said before, BO came to power with a huge democratic bonus (you can see the charts titled Presidential success for reference) the fact that it diminished is only natural, by most studies a political honeymoon lasts eighteen months on average. the fact that his batting average fell from .850 to .200 speaks of the inability of his own team. Put it another way, a Star Slugger playing for team suck.

And secondly Mo', stop believing the media discourse. The WORST.PRESIDENT.EVER. diatribes will die down now that we're past the elections, after all it was all part of the political game. You complain that incumbents with 10% approval get 90% reelection success... then those guys can play the game. Either they're excellent salesmen or the system is so rigged that only the purest paladins of civility can oust them in an election. Watch The Young Turks video above, it explains the extent of polarization and the size of the polarized masses. 80% percent of americans are not crazy teapartylunatics or gaylovincomnists. But averageness does not make for entertaining news entertainment (http://books.google.com.mx/books?id=aZTKmdTDNs0C&lpg=PR3&dq=political%20communication%20washington%20attack&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false).

[thesameguy]

Watch The Young Turks video above, it explains the extent of polarization and the size of the polarized masses. 80% percent of americans are not crazy teapartylunatics or gaylovincomnists. But averageness does not make for entertaining news entertainment (http://books.google.com.mx/books?id=aZTKmdTDNs0C&lpg=PR3&dq=political%20communication%20washington%20attack&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false).

Indeed - I was going to refer to that as well...

[neanderthal]

Bullshit. (http://media.cq.com/votestudies/)

As I said before, BO came to power with a huge democratic bonus (you can see the charts titled Presidential success for reference) the fact that it diminished is only natural, by most studies a political honeymoon lasts eighteen months on average. the fact that his batting average fell from .850 to .200 speaks of the inability of his own team. Put it another way, a Star Slugger playing for team suck.

And secondly Mo', stop believing the media discourse. The WORST.PRESIDENT.EVER. diatribes will die down now that we're past the elections, after all it was all part of the political game. You complain that incumbents with 10% approval get 90% reelection success... then those guys can play the game. Either they're excellent salesmen or the system is so rigged that only the purest paladins of civility can oust them in an election. Watch The Young Turks video above, it explains the extent of polarization and the size of the polarized masses. 80% percent of americans are not crazy teapartylunatics or gaylovincomnists. But averageness does not make for entertaining news entertainment (http://books.google.com.mx/books?id=aZTKmdTDNs0C&lpg=PR3&dq=political%20communication%20washington%20attack&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false).

Gerry mandering.

[FaultyMario]

Isn't that an institution of historical importance to the democratic party?

Did you care to check Obama's relationship with an opposition congress versus that of other presidents in similar situations? The 44th's below average on that front.

And that my friend, indicates that his team of capitol hill handshakers is not doing a good enough job in, forget about televised vitriol for a second, closed-doors dealings. A group of professional politicians he is ultimately responsible for.

Let's not compare Barry-O to GWB (who most of us suspect was not the real power but rather a front for a bunch of seasoned old family friends and who probably remains ignorant about the fine details of what went on during his presidency), but rather, check his track record against the last democratic-party president before him. try to find commonalities and then it'll become obvious where, why and how much B.O. is a failed leader. If, as i contend, he really is.

[overpowered]

Even a lot of Republicans are giving Ted Cruz shit over his idiotic statement about net neutrality.

http://samuel-warde.com/2014/11/facebook-responses-ted-cruz-post-will-make-day/

[Godson]

That, is pure gold.

[thesameguy]

.And that my friend, indicates that his team of capitol hill handshakers is not doing a good enough job in, forget about televised vitriol for a second, closed-doors dealings. A group of professional politicians he is ultimately responsible for.

Well put, and you've reminded me of another annoying aspect of BO - his appointees. He has assembled a crap team in almost every regard, indicative of his disappointments. Appointing Comcast executive as "internet czar?" Really? GIGO.

[neanderthal]

Isn't that an institution of historical importance to the democratic party?

Did you care to check Obama's relationship with an opposition congress versus that of other presidents in similar situations? The 44th's below average on that front.

And that my friend, indicates that his team of capitol hill handshakers is not doing a good enough job in, forget about televised vitriol for a second, closed-doors dealings. A group of professional politicians he is ultimately responsible for.

Let's not compare Barry-O to GWB (who most of us suspect was not the real power but rather a front for a bunch of seasoned old family friends and who probably remains ignorant about the fine details of what went on during his presidency), but rather, check his track record against the last democratic-party president before him. try to find commonalities and then it'll become obvious where, why and how much B.O. is a failed leader. If, as i contend, he really is.

You're trying to say that the opposition in Bill Clinton's day was the same as in Obama's.
No. That opposition, though rabid, was reasonable. There was no Tea Party. There were no "you lie(s)" shouted at him during his televised national address. There were no right wing radio stations spewing hatred and ignorance through the air, and there wasn't a fucked up economy shedding jobs in the hundreds of thousands every month, or two unpopular was/ occupations sucking at the teat of the economy.

Oh, and he wasn't black!

[Godson]

How many people on this planet actually care about someone's skin tone?

[MR2 Fan]

There were no right wing radio stations spewing hatred and ignorance through the air

I wouldn't say that. Clinton was impeached and was dragged through the mud for the scandal

[overpowered]

You're trying to say that the opposition in Bill Clinton's day was the same as in Obama's.
No. That opposition, though rabid, was reasonable. There was no Tea Party. There were no "you lie(s)" shouted at him during his televised national address. There were no right wing radio stations spewing hatred and ignorance through the air, and there wasn't a fucked up economy shedding jobs in the hundreds of thousands every month, or two unpopular was/ occupations sucking at the teat of the economy.Saying that it was reasonable is a stretch. Also, there were right wing radio shows spewing hatred and ignorance through the air. Rush Limbaugh was already syndicated all over the country before Clinton took office. I'm sure that there were others, though maybe not as high profile. Fox News started half way through his presidency.

It was actually pretty bad -- just not as bad as what Obama has had to deal with.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G3OMSC7eBU

[overpowered]

https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/1487323_1024636297563443_9002280817523687960_n.png ?oh=d42e4d87518a4320a476812b46144646&oe=54D7F36E

[neanderthal]

Saying that it was reasonable is a stretch. Also, there were right wing radio shows spewing hatred and ignorance through the air. Rush Limbaugh was already syndicated all over the country before Clinton took office. I'm sure that there were others, though maybe not as high profile. Fox News started half way through his presidency.

It was actually pretty bad -- just not as bad as what Obama has had to deal with.

Reasonable compared to now though. We've got people saying rape victims deserve it ffs.

Right wing radio was merely conservative radio. It wasn't hate filled radio like it is today. I should know. I used to listen to it. I come from a very conservative society and my politics was initially all conservative. Now i'm socially liberal, but still have many conservative leanings.

[MR2 Fan]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/17/investing/how-wall-street-works/index.html?iid=TL_Popular

[thesameguy]

Watched this movie with Brad Pitt called Killing Them Softly last night. It's a weird mob (gang? not mafia) movie where all the mob violence that happens in the movie is against the backdrop of political speeches. The very last encounter is Brad Pitt the hitman talking to his contact over/after Obama -


My friend, Thomas Jefferson is an American saint because he wrote the words 'All men are created equal', words he clearly didn't believe since he allowed his own children to live in slavery. He's a rich white snob who's sick of paying taxes to the Brits. So, yeah, he writes some lovely words and aroused the rabble and they went and died for those words while he sat back and drank his wine and fucked his slave girl. This guy wants to tell me we're living in a community? Don't make me laugh. I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now fucking pay me.

Weird concept for a film - and a little unnerving, too.

[21Kid]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/17/investing/how-wall-street-works/index.html?iid=TL_PopularIf other industries acted like Wall Street...

Seems about right.

[21Kid]

So... Keystone XL passed the house. Big surprise. How does anyone see this as anything except the oil companies buying politicians?

no additional US oil...
“This is a different situation than if we were talking about expanded production of domestic oil,” Shore said. “We’re not. This oil is produced in Canada and will come down to Texas to be processed. What’s likely to happen is that the new imports from Canada will allow the companies on the gulf to back out some of the oil they are now processing from Venezuela and Saudi Arabia.”
If approved, the new Keystone would have the same 36-inch diameter — and the same capacity of 830,000 barrels per day — as the existing segments. That means refineries in Texas and along the Gulf Coast would have at their disposal about the same volume of crude oil to refine after Keystone is built as they do now.
no additional permanent jobs...
TransCanada projects that it will hire 9,000 workers to construct Keystone, a number critics say is inflated. The U.S. government pegs the number of jobs directly tied to the project at 3,900 for one year but notes that local economies could see another 40,000 jobs spring up for a year or two as the indirect benefits add up. Once it’s built, the pipeline would employ about 35 people full time.
Not to mention it will carry tar sands, which are much more difficult to work with.
Pollution from tar sands oil greatly eclipses that of conventional oil. During tar sands oil production alone, levels of carbon dioxide emissions are three to four times higher than those of conventional oil, due to more energy-intensive extraction and refining processes. The Keystone XL pipeline would carry 830,000 barrels of dirty tar sands oil into the United States daily, and result in climate-damaging emissions equal to adding more than 5.6 million new cars to U.S. roads.
Not to mention all of the oil spills (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills#Complete) that we've seen over the past few years. There have been like 15 of them just since the gulf disaster. :(

How can this be seen as anything besides a payday for politicians and oil companies?

[thesameguy]

Hold on, buddy, take a step back.

How can anything be seen as anything but a payday for politicians?

[21Kid]

Fair point... :( US politics. :down:

[thesameguy]

I am reasonably certain that any decision point that has money on one side, and up to/including a couple deaths or illnesses on the other side will always favor the money. There would have to be considerable evidence that a fair amount of significant negative publicity would result from an action in order for the vast majority of politicians to not choose money. If it's just a couple jobs or a minor ecological disaster or consumers getting shafted or privacy being eroded nobody is going to choose anything but money. Especially these days, where a good, supportive lobby is quite literally the key to your career. Kowtow to BP or AT&T or GM and have a cushy job and a nice house for 20 years? That's not even a legitimate quandary.

[21Kid]

You'd think it would be moving in the opposite direction with today's grassroots, meme, facebook sharing free publicity. :(

[thesameguy]

I would, I really would. But you know, I'm a reasonably smart guy and I have some good ideas about how things should be and I am so inundated in daily life I find it virtually impossible to have any clue what's actually going on at any given moment. Between movies I wanna see, cars I gotta work on, a job I gotta do, and finances that must be managed what time do I have? The answer is some, of course, but that "some time" isn't even remotely enough for me to digest the facts, dig through the propaganda and obfuscation and come to any actual useful conclusions. The reasons I have a representative government is the same reason I have a barber and a dentist - I pay them to be informed on hair and teeth and help me have the best face I can have. My government should be doing the same. Of course it is, of course it's The Corporations' fault, and that is all 100% natural. I'm pretty convinced there is absolutely no solution to this problem - there is no compensation package adequate to simultaneously get the best people into government and insulate them from questionable interests. I've been struggling with that concept since a philosophy teacher once posed the question in class. We can't get our best and brightest to educate future generations, we'll never get them to herd our cats.

[Godson]

And ultimately, our best and brightest don't want to educate, because the pay is shit.

[Tom Servo]

I don't think that's always true. I can only speak for my sister who is a goddamn math genius, got her doctorate in mathematics, and now teaches at Cal Poly Pomona. It doesn't pay amazingly, but it's what she's passionate about. She knits shapes defined by equations that she teaches in her topology courses.

[thesameguy]

Sure, it's not always true - there are some gems in government and there are gems in education. But those people are in the vast minority. Most people who are interested in being the best they can be and doing the best they can aren't going to try and slot into a machine. Cogs don't make good money and they aren't going to change the function of the device. Those people start their own thing or find lean operations to be a part of, where they aren't forced to fight for air just to do what they're supposed to be doing. Fighting the people around you just to get work done while someone waves money under your nose and suggests you take a dive must be an incredibly stifling and oppressive - especially when you know (or are led to believe) everyone around you is doing it too. Maybe we need to tie compensation with approval ratings and impose stiff penalties for failures... "Keep your approval rating over 50% and you will live like a king forever. Drop below 50% and you'll spend the rest of your life working at Foxconn."

[21Kid]

Or just vote non-politicians into office. I'd be just fine working for $175k. I wouldn't need to take a bribe... sorry "political contribution". I'd rather have a clean conscious and try to help people with that lowly salary.

[21Kid]

How People’s Political Passions Distort Their Sense of Reality (http://www.wired.com/2014/11/solutions-shape-factual-belief/)
I suppose this isn't actually news. Just confirmation of what we already perceived.


Psychologists tested hundreds of American adults on their beliefs about climate change and violent crime after proposing solutions involving, respectively, government regulations and gun ownership. Spooked by legally mandated fossil fuel restrictions, conservatives were less likely to accept the best scientific estimates on global temperature changes. Conversely, after being told that looser gun control laws reduced violent crime, liberals were less likely to believe that crime is a problem.

[FaultyMario]

What is her body language saying? (http://youtu.be/tdJ06CLjjxE)

[Crazed_Insanity]

You know, looking it from a more positive perspective, it's usually those who're passionate about what they do that end up changing reality.

As for 'political passions'..., yeah, I do agree that it's probably never a good idea to pick a side. Once you identify yourself to be of one particular side, your judgment could be flawed whether or not if you're taking any bribes.

Conservatives wants liberating gun laws... and liberals wants conservative gun laws. Are you really a conservative or a liberal? Do you really need to pick a side? Why not try to solve problems without piling on all the crappy political baggage?

Anyway, luckily capitalism takes advantage of people's greed and utilize it to create some sort of greater good. Luckily founding fathers realized the darkside of human nature when drafting a constitution with sufficient check and balances so that no one person can have enough power to take the entire nation off of a cliff.

Luckily, I believer at least, that there is a God who can make all things whether good or evil, work together for the benefit of those who love Him. So even if someday US government self destructs, I'm sure future generations will still be okay. :)

[thesameguy]

The thing is you do have to pick a side, because we don't have kings or queens. We have massive, bureaucratic organizations that have to all move together or not move at all. So you support Bob in his little endeavor and then he'll support you in yours and maybe you each have to give a little idealism up but you both sorta basically got done what you wanted to get done. Or maybe you've established yourself as an independent and then Bob doesn't really trust your intentions anymore, and he'd rather see you gone so he can have another Boblodyte in your position - someone he can trust, someone he knows has similar interests. And there are two Bobs thinking the way Bob does, doing the things Bobs do. And Bob wants to keep his job, and he knows that come election time that means running a good campaign, and running a good campaign takes money. So when Company, Inc. shows up and says "Hey, Bobs, we'd like to help you get re-elected next time but in order to do that we need to make some more money this year, so how you guys write up a little law that helps us get more money, we'll send some of that money to you, and then you can have a better chance of getting re-elected. In fact, what we're willing to do is send your whole team some money so we can pack the government with Bobs. Then you can always get your way, and all we ask in exchange are a few laws to help make more money so we can help the Bobs. And one day Bob #17 says I'm tired of this machine, I want to do it differently. And all the other Bobs know he's crazy, he's rocking the boat, and he is jeopardizing the sweet little back scratching orgy they've all been enjoying. So Bob #17 is ex-communicated, dispersions are cast, and he's embarrassed in front of his constituency for some combination of lack of success or lack of ability - and the other Bobs go out looking for someone of a similar mind that can replace Bob #17.

The only numskulls who want to be part of that machine are followers. People who want to slot in and make some money. Not the free thinkers, not the idealists, not the people who actually want to or are capable of getting things done. The people who get involved are the people who have been inducted into a lifestyle and seek to maintain it. Comfort-seekers. Every so often someone with some real ideas slips through the gates, but those individuals get CRUSHED because the establishment doesn't (and can't) trust them to not rock the boat. That's why we don't have good candidates, that's why the upper levels of government is made up entirely of career politicians. Because none of the noob locals with interesting thoughts are going to get that far. Ever. The system is a big fat self-feeding, self-fulfilling prophecy and it is going to 100% protect its interests. Any group is going to seek to protect itself, and we fucking blew it the second we "allowed" money to be an incentive in government. Now the cash dynamic is part of that system, part of that group. it's never coming back out. Until the US population can and does out-spend corporate America, the needs and desires of the population is going to have sod all to do with what the government gets done.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, IMHO, status quo can only be maintained up to a point. Camel's back can't last forever. Either we experience a systemic collapse, or perhaps things can get so bad that the situation end up inspiring someone to rise up to the occasion and perhaps be able to wake other Bobs up to do the right thing rather than continue on with the status quo. I thought Obama might be the one, but I guess I was wrong.

We all know about the splineless career political bureaucratic Bobs causing gridlocks...

We also know the greedy corporate Bobs end up short circuiting various systems whether political or economical or environmental, etc...

All I'm saying is that we as voters, consumers, citizens..., don't have to pick a side. There are always multiple sides to each story. Not saying we can't ever pick a side, but we ought to at least be understanding of other sides of the story rather than ignoring or disrespecting the other side right away.

Our votes don't count much. I'm also often times "forced" to buy certain stuffs from evil greedy corporate America. However, the least we can do is to not act as if we're another 'Bob' feeding into this vicious cycle. Such polarization isn't helpful.

No offense to any real Bobs out there. :p

[MR2 Fan]

I've mentioned this before, but the thing that scares me the most is when these massive corporations with offices in dozens of countries get to the point where they are basically a new kind of world power....not limited by geography or "local" laws of individual governments.

These companies have so much money and potential influence they can move wherever is suitable to maximize profits, and if they don't like the laws, they'll buy off the politicians to get them changed.

If citizens wanted to be powerful, they would stop buying goods from the big companies and buy alternatives, but there's not much strength in boycotts anymore....it's difficult to get any number of people to agree and protest much of anything these days, too many distractions.

[21Kid]

This can't be real. (http://www.salon.com/2014/11/19/house_republicans_just_passed_a_bill_forbidding_sc ientists_from_advising_the_epa_on_their_own_resear ch/) :twitch:

House Republicans just passed a bill forbidding scientists from advising the EPA on their own research

H.R. 1422, which passed 229-191, would shake up the EPA’s Scientific Advisory Board, placing restrictions on those pesky scientists and creating room for experts with overt financial ties to the industries affected by EPA regulations.

The bill is being framed as a play for transparency: Rep. Michael Burgess, R-Texas, argued that the board’s current structure is problematic because it “excludes industry experts, but not officials for environmental advocacy groups.” The inclusion of industry experts, he said, would right this injustice.

But the White House, which threatened to veto the bill, said it would “negatively affect the appointment of experts and would weaken the scientific independence and integrity of the SAB.”

In what might be the most ridiculous aspect of the whole thing, the bill forbids scientific experts from participating in “advisory activities” that either directly or indirectly involve their own work. In case that wasn’t clear: experts would be forbidden from sharing their expertise in their own research — the bizarre assumption, apparently, being that having conducted peer-reviewed studies on a topic would constitute a conflict of interest. “In other words,” wrote Union of Concerned Scientists director Andrew A. Rosenberg in an editorial for RollCall, “academic scientists who know the most about a subject can’t weigh in, but experts paid by corporations who want to block regulations can.” :twitch:

[tigeraid]

:mad:

[Godson]

Idiots. All of them.

[Random]

Totally unsurprising given the projected make-up of the various science and technology committees in Congress. :|

[overpowered]

More batshit from Michelle Bachmann

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/bachmann-sees-obama-helping-illiterate-immigrants

[Kchrpm]

How many people on this planet actually care about someone's skin tone?

More than most know or would be willing to admit to themselves. Even if it's not conscious, we all make snap judgments about things based on their appearance. Sometimes we can overcome it, sometimes we can't.

[overpowered]

True.

[thesameguy]

I'm not opposed to snap judgements. Snap judgements are part of what keeps people safe. But if your intellect can't overcome basic fight or flight, you have serious developmental issues. Which, I'd wager, a solid 90% of the world's population has. Your skin can be any color and I can get by that (unless it's mottled - that could be a health concern), but Imma judge the fuck out of you if you're stupid, and nothing is gonna change that. That's how I apply snap judgements to my life.

On a related note, if Obama doesn't veto those bills, I'm going to snap judge him, too. That right there is last straw material.

[Godson]

Your skin can be any color and I can get by that (unless it's mottled - that could be a health concern), but Imma judge the fuck out of you if you're stupid, and nothing is gonna change that. That's how I apply snap judgements to my life.



A+ post, would read again.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm not opposed to snap judgements. Snap judgements are part of what keeps people safe. But if your intellect can't overcome basic fight or flight, you have serious developmental issues. Which, I'd wager, a solid 90% of the world's population has...

You're saying 90% of the population have developed abilities to use their intellectual part of the brain to over come their basic instincts or am I reading it wrong?

I don't think I can confidently say that I can consistently overcome my basic instincts such as fight or flight when properly provoked. Further, take a look at how the market reacts or how media or church or even peer pressure can cause herd effects, I'd wager to say that majority of the population do not engage their intellectual part of the brain first.

Not that I think majority of folks are just stupid, whether our brains are what it is by design or by random evolution, I think basic instincts always trumps the intellectual mind. Unless God changes our brain or we evolve further. Humanity will continue to behave predictably irrationally at first. However, hopefully eventually the intellectual side will be able to kick in later.

I think snap judgments are basically instinctive... or intuitive... for sure not intellectual. We definitely need to react fast sometimes to save our lives in certain situations. Sometimes we just got no time to dwell on certain issues intellectually for too long.

It's too bad our congress is acting so instinctively all the time and yet so slow to react to things. If only we could inject some sort of intellect into congress...

I guess my suggestion would be to allow us the ability to vote none of the above! Enough of the less of the 2 evils crap. If I don't like the incumbent and not sure if I like the new challenger, then fuck it. Leave the office empty. If the office really need to be occupied, then let the next in line take over... as if the office holder were assassinated or something.

Okay, enough rambling for the day...

[thesameguy]

No, I'm saying 90% of the population has serious developmental issues.

And Congress is very smart. They just don't happen to work for us anymore.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ah... gotcha.

Anyway, maybe our congress or democratic process is just going thru "developmental" pains. ;) Hopefully we can grow thru our problems.

[overpowered]

And Congress is very smart. They just don't happen to work for us anymore.For the most part. However, they do have people like Bachmann and Cruz, who are stupid and don't work for us.

[thesameguy]

Maybe. I'm not willing to pass judgment on them yet. They could dumb, but they could just be playing roles for reasons unbeknownst to us. I could totally see playing the role of a nutball religious extremist just to keep people off the scent of the evil genius stuff I was doing in my off time. I imagine that'd work very well on the American populace. Of course, they could just be idiot shills installed by corporate America. That'd be totally believable too.

[overpowered]

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/palin-identifies-the-key-threat-americas-future-americans


We’ll survive this president. The question is (overdramatic pause) can we survive the people who voted for him, twice?

Wow.

[thesameguy]

http://themelkerproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/YesWeCan.jpg

?

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QAg3k__q2s

[overpowered]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/incoming-nevada-house-speaker-simple-minded-darkies-show-lack-of-gratitude-to-whites/

[overpowered]

http://cdn.happyplace.com/assets/images/2013/07/51df19db0b152.jpg

http://happyplace.someecards.com/america/former-high-school-teacher-congressman-irks-gop-by-marking-their-memos-with-a-red-pen/

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QAg3k__q2s

Don't see why Republicans or Fox think that they owns the rights to quote scripture.

One thing I do agree with them is that Obama does seem like he gave reelection chances more weight than actually doing what he thinks is the right thing to do. Pull the executive order thing at the beginning of his office and let them run their course. If they work, then they'll have high chance of becoming real laws. If not, then he gets booted out of the office and the next guy can try something else. Why do this as a lame duck president and it may not even get a chance to get fully implemented before you're out of the office and the next prez may just cancel it.

Especially for the immigration reform stuff. Why not do this before election? Might help you win some more Latino votes. If Latino votes don't really matter, then why bother with this now?

I guess perhaps he really does believe this is the right thing to do? Now that nothing else is on the line, he figures he might as well do what he believes is right? ;)

What I believe is the right thing to do is to just heavily penalize those who hire illegal immigrants. Jail and fine all who hire them. From the actually hiring managers to the CEOs and or the owners. Rich conservatives seem to have no problems using and abusing illegal immigrants... want the advantage of cheap labors, yet doesn't want to pay for their social needs and want them to stay as 2nd class citizens so that they can continue to exploit them.

Just cut the problem at its source, which is the people who hire illegal immigrants, then we should save ourselves lots of troubles and lots of money.

I think the next troublesome immigration issue would be the chinese..., lots of them are coming here to have babies. Most of them are rich and don't need to work. They spend lots of money here so it's probably good for our economy, but at least in southern california area, especially in my neighborhood, we're getting overwhelmed by mainland chinese people. I have them to thank for propping up my property value up so high, but even as a chinese, I'm considering leaving this neighborhood.

This new immigration issue cannot be fixed by penalizing people who hire illegals... nor can taller fences stop them from coming in... for now, I guess US is glad to take their money until the day chinese economy collapse or until the chinese govt tighten its grip on money flow out to US...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Immigration issue aside...

I wonder why there had been so many resignations on the military side while serving under Obama...

[21Kid]

GOP-led Benghazi report is 'full of crap' (http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/23/politics/lindsey-graham-benghazi-report/)

Benghazi !!!!

:smh: this will never end, will it?

[21Kid]

Oh FFS!!!


Speaker of the House John Boehner (R-Ohio) on Monday evening announced that he is reappointing Republican Trey Gowdy of South Carolina to head the Select Committee on Benghazi next Congress. :mad:

In response to the House intelligence report Friday, Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., released a statement saying he believed there was "no reason" for the special Benghazi committee to continue its work.

“After an exhaustive bipartisan investigation that spanned nearly two years, the House Intelligence Committee now unanimously agrees that the CIA talking points reflected conflicting intelligence assessments in the days immediately following the attacks and that there is no evidence that the intelligence community shipped arms to Syria," Cummings said. "Based on these unanimous, bipartisan findings, there is no reason for the Benghazi Select Committee to reinvestigate these facts, repeat the work already done by our Republican and Democratic colleagues, and squander millions of additional taxpayer dollars in the process."

[MR2 Fan]

But if they don't keep whining about existing issues, people might expect them to actually DO SOMETHING!

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAlpnZfD3mU

[overpowered]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10177318_10152885934414805_5138859567716922933_n.j pg?oh=b235972f4dd889f3a35af877e8132b54&oe=54D57367&__gda__=1426485971_98e80b8eab95d2f7836a4099beca14d 7

[21Kid]

:lol:

[Freude am Fahren]

:up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

A bit off topic with regard to US politics..., in Taiwan's recent midterm election, President Ma... probably has even lower popularity rating than President Obama..., enjoyed an even more embarrassing defeat. Almost everything that was up for re-election, whether it's mayors or representatives... pretty much every position had a change of color. A pretty comprehensive defeat.

Previously I mentioned a doctor who entered the race, who insisted on capping his own campaign fund raising, no negative ads, no plastering banners everywhere... and insisting and not having any association with any parties... won the mayoral election. Defeating a much more famous(Or famous dad) and well funded candidate. (In Taiwan, mayor of Taipei usually becomes the next president). Anyway, he's really a breath of fresh air. Totally energized the people of Taiwan. Voter turnouts were like more than 70%! It's kinda like the classic David vs Goliath fight...

Hope he does well. Society is illed. Hope this doctor can fix things... fingers crossed.

Hope we can have such a candidate emerge in the US as well...

[thesameguy]

FINE, I'LL RUN. FUCK!

[Yw-slayer]

Taking one FOR THE TEAM

[Godson]

Now if I donate the most, can I have a larger say?

[Alan P]

:D

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qdb6wC0Iz4

[overpowered]

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/149394_767277390028964_2886889004394788831_n.jpg?o h=a46c21d740a3e474cc45d683c6eda0a7&oe=55203926


http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/blogs/bostonspirit/2013/02/fox_news_uses_image_of_lesbian.html

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_wLTmnKP5I

[overpowered]

http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/12/1/7313467/chris-rock-interview

[Godson]

There is a shit ton of truth in those comments by Chris Rock.



Which is bothersome to me it took this fucking long.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Relative to the age of the universe, white people are progressing at a very rapid pace! ;)

Anyway, this is kinda similar to partisan politics. White blames black and black blames white. Reality is that it ain't that black and white. President Obama ain't black... nor is he white. He's gray, just look at his hair! :p

BTW, I'm not sure I'd vote for the same guy over and over again. If you do decide to run, better change your name! :D

[21Kid]

Chris Rock nailed it.

[thesameguy]

Chris Rock's sentiment is interesting, but it's just a play on words, changing the frame of reference from external to internal. Is my boss making progress because I got a raise? Is that cute girl making progress because I got a date? Implying that white people were the sole obstacle in black presidency is just a little insulting, in the same way calling my boss or the cute girl an idiot for not seeing the value of me is insulting. Both parties have some growing to do, and "white progress" is every bit as argumentative as "black progress." This type of word play is sort of Chris Rock's forte and he is awesome at it, but being fun doesn't make it right. I mean, is the overturning of prop 8 "gay progress" or "black progress" - or just things finally working out the way they should because all forces came into proper alignment?

PS I hate the holidays.

[21Kid]

I don't see how it's a play on words... It puts the responsibility of the past issues surrounding limitations put on black people, on the white man. Which, hearing how he says it, makes sense. Those same limitations don't apply to a cute girl dating you, or your boss making progress because they weren't holding you back from dating or getting a raise.

What else has prevented a black president before now, if not for white dudes voting for other white dudes?

[overpowered]

I think it's bit of an over-simplification but the basic gist is correct. It's not merely a play on words.

I do think black people have made progress too. Having been subjected to slavery, Jim Crow laws and all the rest affected the culture of most black people in ways that did long term and wide spread damage that ultimately they have had to overcome as well. Being abused affects people in bad ways. I'll grant that more of the burden of progress is on white people in general, having been (and in too many cases still are) the oppressors but it's not as simple as it being just white people that need to make progress. We're all in this together and ultimately have to solve the problems together. We've actually come a very long way, but we still have a long way to go before the problem is fixed.

[21Kid]

:) :up:

[thesameguy]

What else has prevented a black president before now, if not for white dudes voting for other white dudes?

Votes? Hispanics? Asians? Mediterraneans? I don't know. Lots and lots of white dudes and women have tried and failed to be president too. People identifying themselves as "black" constitute about 14% of Americans. Approximately 3% of Presidents have been black. It's not a terrible mismatch, and I just don't think it's a cultural plight to not be president in the first place. Many places have never had minority leadership, fewer have had minority top leadership - do they have a lot of progress to make too?

I find the notion of "I am great, you're holding me back" to be unproductive and borderline offensive. I find the notion of reducing complex social issues to group finger-pointing to be very offensive. Taking kudos ("congratulations on a black president") and twisting it into condemnation ("thanks for lettings us have this finally") is unproductive to say the least.

Why can't it be "the best candidate won" and that be it? Suggesting someone might win or not win the election because of religion, ethnicity, or any other immutable physical quality diminishes the winner and the loser, and changes the focus from the best person for the job to the person who looks a certain way.

Don't get me wrong, Obama has had to endure a lot of bullshit "Kenyan Muslim Terrorist" dispersions, and as a black person in this country I'd be fucking irritated at that on his behalf - but that doesn't justify attempting to turn "no black president" into "a white problem" or racism.

That's my $0.02

[21Kid]

Why can't it be "the best candidate won" and that be it? Suggesting someone might win or not win the election because of religion, ethnicity, or any other immutable physical quality diminishes the winner and the loser, and changes the focus from the best person for the job to the person who looks a certain way.I guess that's where I see the problem. That's how it should be.

But, 50 years ago there's no way that would have been possible. Our current president wouldn't even have been allowed to use the same bathroom as whites because he would have been considered a lower class citizen. Let alone been allowed to run for president.

Our county has come a long way since then. But, I don't think the minority that was once treated so poorly had to change as much as the attitude towards them.

[overpowered]

Police wearing cameras isn't going to help apparently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ka4oKu1jo

We have it all on video. The coroner ruled it a homicide. The hold is banned by the department. The grand jury fails to indict the murderer.

[JoshInKC]

Look, everybody should remain calm and remember that Eric Garner was selling loose, untaxed cigarettes - which is against the law.
...therefore, he obviously deserved to die...
Wait, no. Thats f*cking stupid and insane.

I wish those protestors last night had made it into Rockefeller Center, burned that tree to the ground, and then continued south to One Police Plaza and burned it as well.
This police violence stuff is just getting weirder and more baroque with the prevalence of cameras and lunatics all over the internet suggesting that the police are always right and anyone (black) killed by them deserved it.

[TheBenior]

If I were the officer who put him in the chokehold, the lack of state charges would be of little comfort, as I'd still be pretty worried about going to federal prison for a decade for a civil rights violation.

[Tom Servo]

http://i.imgur.com/nouLzDZ.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why should that single officer bear sole responsibility? There were a bunch of them around, not only subduing the guy, but also controlling the crowd. None stepped in to stop the 'murder' when the poor guy couldn't breath. They all should be charged and sent to prison. Heck, we should just shut down all police departments, fire them all... except perhaps that one cop who'd hug a black boy. Obviously that was the exception to the rule, cops are all pretty much the same and the police are repeating the same murderous spree all over America. Time to put a stop to killer cops! Actually obviously the court system doesn't work either... so perhaps we should just carry out justice in our own hands! Who the fuck needs the police when police are out to kill people.

Anyway, seriously, if we have an all black police force, I think similar tragedies would still happen. We're only human. We are making progress though. We don't always have to insist that the glass is only half empty...

[overpowered]

Anyway, seriously, if we have an all black police force, I think similar tragedies would still happenUnfortunately, that seems true at this point. Black officers kill black men in disproportionately high numbers as well.

EDIT: Though not as disproportionately high as white officers do.

[overpowered]

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/ben-carson-fully-committed-his-us-nazi-parallel

[Crazed_Insanity]

Unfortunately, that seems true at this point. Black officers kill black men in disproportionately high numbers as well.

So I hope people can see that this is not just a race issue. It's part of the police culture.

If you resist arrest and if police is insisting on arresting you, chances of tragedy increases. If you also happen to be black or hispanic, chances of tragedy would skyrocket.

Lots of these tragedies can be avoided if people would simply comply to officers' demands.

Perhaps police should also upload videos of how cops get killed on the job in order to ease the outcry a bit? It'd also be interesting to find out which race kills the most cops.

[thesameguy]

Lots of these tragedies can be avoided if people would simply comply to officers' demands.

Yes and no - because sometimes submitting to police demands - where you'd hope even wrongful police custody would still be safe - turns out to not be so safe. I can completely understand being in the position of having legitimate fear that doing what you're told isn't going to stop the shakedown, it's just going to make their job easier. I can sympathize with the hope that making what seems like (and may be) harassment difficult will make the whole thing not worth it. You want to be able to 100% trust the police, but there are enough examples of nontrustworthy cops that any interaction is subject to both scrutiny and fear. Of course you want to advise just playing along no matter what - taking the higher road so to speak - but, fuck, if you're that person in that situation that could seem like a totally irrational course of action.

(And I'm not trying to pin shitty behavior on cops - it's not like wearing a badge makes you invulnerable. For every ten totally nonviolent people you gotta deal with there is probably one who'd have no problem ending your life and has the full capability of doing it. That's scary shit. I'd be on edge too.)

[21Kid]

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/ben-carson-fully-committed-his-us-nazi-parallel
I was all... :erm:
But, then at the bottom: "Postscript: A national poll this week found Carson running second among all likely Republican presidential hopefuls, trailing only Mitt Romney."
:eek: WTF!?!? :smh: :down::eek:

[21Kid]

GOP: Thanks for Electing Us, and Screw You (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-zombeck/gopthanks-for-electing-us_b_6264888.html) - nice title.

With the midterms behind them and some significant wins for conservatives, Congress wasted no time last week in doing what they do best -- screwing America's middle class and working poor.

Every year Congress ritualistically renews a package of "temporary" tax breaks for corporations in a process commonly referred to as "tax extenders" because they extend temporary tax breaks. This year, however, they want to make these breaks permanent -- particularly the ones that benefit large corporations and political donors. It's a process that the Washington Post refers to as "a periodic bonanza for lobbyists."

This particular bonanza is in the neighborhood of $450 billion.

That's what happens when you vote against your own self-interests. :(

[thesameguy]

Eventually everyone who buys still will be so poor they won't be able to buy anything anymore, and they'll run out of enticing ways to lure people into financing basic things and people will just stop buying. Eventually.

Related, I think the next big business is going to be financing designer clothes. That's an untapped market as of yet, and there is sufficient resale in used designer clothes I think it can work.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes and no - because sometimes submitting to police demands - where you'd hope even wrongful police custody would still be safe - turns out to not be so safe. I can completely understand being in the position of having legitimate fear that doing what you're told isn't going to stop the shakedown, it's just going to make their job easier. I can sympathize with the hope that making what seems like (and may be) harassment difficult will make the whole thing not worth it. You want to be able to 100% trust the police, but there are enough examples of nontrustworthy cops that any interaction is subject to both scrutiny and fear. Of course you want to advise just playing along no matter what - taking the higher road so to speak - but, fuck, if you're that person in that situation that could seem like a totally irrational course of action.

(And I'm not trying to pin shitty behavior on cops - it's not like wearing a badge makes you invulnerable. For every ten totally nonviolent people you gotta deal with there is probably one who'd have no problem ending your life and has the full capability of doing it. That's scary shit. I'd be on edge too.)

Hey, it's never a certain yes or no. Nobody's perfect. I'm sure there are asshole police, but if you insist on making their job difficult, what do you expect to happen? Same goes with making a run or leading them on a chase...

Anyway, like I said, we can have the entire police force to be black and we'd have similar problems.

I really don't think recent incidences are really just about white racist cops killing black people. Problem won't be solved by having only black cops. People need to stay cool and not assume all cops are racist pigs. And for the sake of your own life, please try to comply with the police!

By complying with the police completely and if you're still dead, then it'd certainly make an indictment easier.

[novicius]

Yes and no - because sometimes submitting to police demands - where you'd hope even wrongful police custody would still be safe - turns out to not be so safe.
Even if being accosted/arrested by the police was to be equated to being mugged, what do authorities generally say when you're getting mugged? Hand over your valuables, it's not worth losing your life over.

If you feel that you're going to be sexually assaulted and/or murdered by the police officer(s) then I guess you have some hard decisions to make. But resisting arrest because you feel that your rights are being violated? Arguing and/or fighting the police? :twitch: Not the way to go about pleading your case...

[thesameguy]

But resisting arrest because you feel that your rights are being violated? Arguing and/or fighting the police? :twitch: Not the way to go about pleading your case...

Again, I sort of agree - and I'll disclaim that if we had this conversation five years ago, well, we wouldn't have this conversation because I totally would have said that. :lol: These days I am not so sure you can trust the system, that complying with a false arrest will eventually lead you to the right place. Once you are in custody there really isn't a system to ensure the "right things" happen. Everything from that point on is your word against theirs, and if you believe that the situation starting the arrest is questionable, why would you believe the situation succeeding the arrest will be in earnest? You can't - that's irrational. If you believe that you're in the middle of a shakedown and you have a legitimate chance to make the situation "non-economical" through non-violent means such that your harasser will just move on to someone else versus just going with it and hoping someone down the road says, "Wait, this wasn't right." I dunno... I want it to be "authority figures know best," but I think we all know that they frequently don't. I want it to be "there are systems in place to ensure that rogue agents are kept in line and that personal rights are always overseen," but I think there is sufficient evidence to believe that's not so. If someone you don't trust says "come with me and everything will be okay," how can you just submit and hope it works out?

[novicius]

Yeah but look at the alternative: it's a lead-salad.

[thesameguy]

Yeah but look at the alternative: it's a lead-salad.

Only if you don't believe there's a chance that being difficult will encourage your harasser to move on. I've not been many situations (there have been a couple) where I've been wantonly harassed by the man, but I can see how you might find/feel that's what's going on, and maybe you've seen success in the past by not making yourself an easy target. I get that. Of course, if the guy in your face is 100% committed to his action, for sure, the alternative is a lead salad. I fucking suck with people - I have no idea how you could look someone in the eye and figure out whether they're messing with you or they really intend to ruin your day, but I certainly believe that's a real thing. Being able (or believing you are able) to make that call and change your fate is probably a real thing. There are enough cases in the news alone to believe that's a real thing.

Again, I want the answer to be everything will work out, but if you watch the news, live in a certain part of town, and have a cultural or personal distrust of authority I can absolutely see how mentally you get there. If "bad things" was always a result of personal distrust affecting better judgment then yeah, you're a tard. Hell, truly I once felt that was virtually always the case. But it seems with every passing day there is more noise coming out about abuses of authority and, for me, it sure seems like those tards maybe aren't quite as tarded as I once thought. Maybe.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuyMuLGXxTs

[novicius]

Only if you don't believe there's a chance that being difficult will encourage your harasser to move on.
Being cagey and arguing with a cop for a few moments is one thing; I do it every time I'm pulled over (with both hands at 10 o'clock on the steering wheel). :assclown:

But pushing away and fighting and struggling? I hate to agree with Billi but he's right: that action most likely elevates the average Police Officer's threat level. Guns are more likely to come out. People are more likely to get shot. #justsayin

::

In light of my posts, I should state that after having read the (publicly released) details of both killings, that Darren Wilson & Daniel Pantaleo should have both been indicted and brought up on charges of murder, assault, etc. My stating that "resisting arrest is a bad idea" does not mean that I am a supporter of these two stubborn and bullying assholes.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If you are Sarah Connor or Morpheus or Trinity or Neo or somebody who really can't trust the authorities, then hell yeah, don't just resist them, kill them too! You better be sure that odds of beating them and able to run away cleanly is in your favor.

If no such odds exist, then you better just submit first and let them arrest you. When cops ask to see your hands... you better show them your hands. Even if you are just trying to break into your own car.

Once in custody, you probably have a higher chance of fighting the authorities going thru the system. Even if you're shipped to somewhere like Guantanamo, at least you'll live and have a chance of someday US government coming to its sense and shut it down and perhaps one day release you after a fair trial.

Now, if you really rather die than be apprehended by the evil authorities, then yeah, try to resist or fight them. I'm just saying that by complying, you have a better chance of surviving and getting real justice done.

Are there racist cops? I'm sure there are. There are racists everywhere. In OP's video above, obviously somebody called the cops on that black dude.

We live in a racist society. We just have to learn to deal with it appropriately. If you're black, unfortunately you have to watch your back more. Don't do anything that'd attract attention onto yourself. Don't try to resist arrest should you end up with such unwanted attention. No need to give possible racist cops good reason to kill you. Race relations also won't improve with riots. Both sides need to work on this a bit more.

Anyway, if things like this continues, maybe they should consider having all black cops working in black neighborhoods.

[novicius]

We live in a racist society. We have to continuously work at eradicating it appropriately. If you're black, unfortunately you have to watch your back more. Don't do anything that'd attract attention onto yourself. Don't try to resist arrest should you end up with such unwanted attention. No need to give possible racist cops good reason to kill you. Race relations also won't improve with riots. Both sides need to work on this a fuckload more with more money, time and cooperation.
FTFY.

[overpowered]

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/07/25/st-louis-county-police-officer-charged/

[21Kid]

:smh:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/91gaaa/we-can-t-breathe

[21Kid]

WTMF!?!

Barbra Streisand Created 'Climate Change Hoax' (http://inhabitat.com/james-inhofe-barbra-streisand-created-climate-change-hoax/)


Look around us, I said, spreading my arms wide. There are thousands of intelligent and well-meaning people in this gigantic conference center: scientists, heads of state, government officials, policy experts. They believe that climate change is a serious and pressing threat and that something must be done soon. Do you believe that they have all been fooled?
Yes, he said, grinning.
That these people who have traveled from all points of the globe to be here are victims of a well-orchestrated hoax?
Yes, he said, still smiling.
That’s some hoax, I countered. But who has engineered such a scam?
Hollywood liberals and extreme environmentalists, Inhofe replied.
Really? I asked. Why would they conspire to scare all these smart people into believing a catastrophe was under way, when all was well?
Inhofe didn’t skip a beat: To advance their radical environmental agenda.
I pressed on: Who in Hollywood is doing this?
The whole liberal crowd, Inhofe said.
But who?
Barbra Streisand, he responded.
Republicans want to put this guy in charge of environmental policy!?!?! (http://inhabitat.com/petition-dont-put-a-climate-change-denier-in-charge-of-u-s-environmental-policy/) :erm: :smh: :erm: you've got to be kidding me. :(

[Yw-slayer]

Oowooowooo wooowoooo woooowooowoooo

[Tom Servo]

Hmm, that link on inhabitat now goes to a 404. I'm hoping that they got pranked and that Inhofe, while dumber than a bag of hammers, isn't quite that dumb.

[speedpimp]

South Bend, Indiana has a police force of around 260 officers and it is overwhelmingly white and male. A local TV station ran a story on the perfect police force that would mirror all aspects of the city's demographics. One thing that caught my attention was the number of female vs male officers(134-126). With that many female officers on a force and if they were somehow able to synchronize their monthlys, you think there is a problem with police brutality now? Just imagine the atrocities committed during "The Red Days".

[Freude am Fahren]

Is that the third installment in the trilogy?

The Purge: Red Days.

[speedpimp]

Pretty sure it is.

[overpowered]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10850035_1006310819395565_7585037437542930049_n.jp g?oh=4f29de93268c3abd307555dfc32df4d5&oe=55462D15&__gda__=1430657093_7e1582f9786949ef6345f795be54b1e f

https://www.facebook.com/Teabonics/photos/a.224321947594460.75723.224319224261399/1006310819395565/?type=1

[Godson]

Totally digging the foley catheter line on his right pant leg.

[speedpimp]

Where do you see the line?

[Godson]

Bah! That is the other wheel for the wheelchair..



That comic is less funny to me now.

[speedpimp]

I thought that's what you were looking at.

[21Kid]

Hmm, that link on inhabitat now goes to a 404. I'm hoping that they got pranked and that Inhofe, while dumber than a bag of hammers, isn't quite that dumb.

Huh, yeah it does... I found a few other references to it though too. And they said Barbara even responded to it, here (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/12/james-inhofe-barbra-streisand-climate-change-hoax). They all seem to reference the same conversation, so they could be copy/pasting. :|

UPDATE: After this story was published, Streisand issued the following statement: "This would be hilarious if it weren't so frightening. I thank Senator Inhofe for singling me out as a voice against the perils of climate change! But I'm just a small part of millions of voices, who are informed and alarmed, including 97% of all climate scientists! God help us! This man is going to head the Committee on the Environment in the United States Senate. It’s like giving a fox the keys to the chicken coop."

[overpowered]

http://billmoyers.com/content/book-excerpt-understanding-the-new-jim-crow/

[MR2 Fan]

Great Daily Show clip, South African comedian arrives and discusses the differences.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/12/06/daily-show-invites-south-african-comedian-to-give-his-first-impression-of-america-its-not-pretty-video/

[overpowered]

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1555399_1007071312652849_7022568527216241544_n.jpg ?oh=3b4f459a17e0297a235693d793d773f5&oe=55066A8B

https://www.facebook.com/Teabonics/photos/a.224321947594460.75723.224319224261399/1007071312652849/?type=1

[overpowered]

http://www.ora.tv/offthegrid/category/ventura-declarations/the-life-and-crimes-of-dick-cheney-0_39sh60sut14b

[Crazed_Insanity]

Is Dick Cheney the only person to blame?

[MR2 Fan]

Sony gets hacked....why can't Faux News get hacked so we can fully see how in bed they are with the GOP?

[21Kid]

:erm: Is anyone really questioning that, at all?

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR7qsQDWVPU

[overpowered]

Michele Bachmann: God gave Moses the Ten Commandments so America would be rich (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/michele-bachmann-god-gave-moses-the-ten-commandments-so-america-would-be-rich/)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think that article title is a bit misleading.

In her farewell speech as an elected lawmaker, she's just paying respect to the most famous lawmaker Moses.

Anyway, here are more cops captured on video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSr4zBsLTM4

[thesameguy]

Michele Bachmann: God gave Moses the Ten Commandments so America would be rich (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/michele-bachmann-god-gave-moses-the-ten-commandments-so-america-would-be-rich/)

I am increasingly a proponent of mob justice. I feel like that would solve these types of problems.

[MR2 Fan]

in case people didn't know....we're only a few hours away from another potential government shutdown.

Clearly our elected officials don't think the government is important, so maybe they should all just quit :rolleyes:

[overpowered]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/koch-industries-responds-to-rolling-stone-and-we-answer-back-20140929

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh5yCKlK2Ak

[Freude am Fahren]

Fuck Congress, let's just have an Executive branch and Judicial branch.

[Crazed_Insanity]

in case people didn't know....we're only a few hours away from another potential government shutdown.

Clearly our elected officials don't think the government is important, so maybe they should all just quit :rolleyes:

It's amazing how our government officials managed to save the day in the last minute time after time! I wonder how many times can they further kick the can(bucket) down the road with these temp fixes.

[21Kid]

I'm going to miss the Colbert show (http://www.salon.com/2014/12/12/stephen_colbert_schooled_fox_news_hard_comedy_bill _oreilly_and_the_exposure_of_right_wing_patriotism _lies/). :(

[MR2 Fan]

It's amazing how our government officials managed to save the day in the last minute time after time! I wonder how many times can they further kick the can(bucket) down the road with these temp fixes.

How else can they sneak in all of this crap that most people don't want, but are forced to agree on? It is really, really shady.

[21Kid]

How can there be soooo many bad politicians out there? :smh:

Think anyone would hire me to congress if I just promise not to accept bribes, and work to make things better?

[Random]

How can there be soooo many bad politicians out there? :smh:

The cream rises to the top...

[21Kid]

frothy...

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think even with a promise to not accept bribe or not to do bad things and actually having the integrity to carry such promises out..., there's still no guarantee that the process would be smoother. People want different things so a congress of the people would still struggle to reach some sort of compromise.

Plus, promising to do no harm doesn't mean you'll be able to do good! With lots of conflicting public opinions, with both the right and left pulling on congress, you still might end up unable to do anything.

[overpowered]

Merry Christmas, bomb Iran.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/all-michele-bachmann-wants-for-christmas-is-for-obama-to-bomb-iran/#.VIsLuhS1woM.twitter

[overpowered]

https://medium.com/@jayslacks/conservatives-arent-racist-its-worse-d73fc7ab95ea

[overpowered]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10402473_1010057409020906_2435657675137223515_n.jp g?oh=7d18ab54c0cd0748619213108a8b39a3&oe=551405C5&__gda__=1430482034_e7d40fb44b098c827de0fa634cfa963 1

[Jason]

Regarding this torture thing, I don't understand how this is news. We always have, and we always will torture. In fact, most every country is in the same boat, I'd imagine. It's shitty, but that's the price of war.

[TheBenior]

I think the difference, even for those not caught up in the hypocrisy of it, is that the Bush administration formalized it. Most people probably figured that with exigent/extreme circumstances (hostage situations, very high level terrorists, etc), it was always on the table. However, a lot of the same people probably question making it routine and making manuals trying to rationalize doing so.

[overpowered]

Well, there is the part where we signed the Geneva Conventions saying we wouldn't do it, and the part where Bush said we weren't doing it, and the fact that it's a violation of basic human rights and the fact that it's failed to be effective. It's not OK.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXUPDAMc_6o

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LULIq2Oo70E

[overpowered]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/12/dick-cheneys-6-step-torture-denial.html

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJpTxONxvoo

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/the-speech-that-could-make-elizabeth-warren-president_b_6319142.html

[overpowered]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/15/fox-news-sydney-hostage-crisis-host-uses-to-defend-torture_n_6329156.html

[21Kid]

So... just another day at Fox. :|

[overpowered]

Pakistan Taliban: Peshawar school attack leaves 141 dead (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30491435)


Militants from the Pakistani Taliban have attacked an army-run school in Peshawar, killing 141 people, 132 of them children, the military say.

[21Kid]

:(:smh::(:sadbanana::(:mad::(


McConnell: Keystone bill first up in new Senate (http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/16/politics/mcconnell-keystone-bill-first-up-in-new-senate/index.html)
Ugh... of course they will. Because creating temporary jobs to help Canadian companies transport some of the dirtiest oil in the world through our country is a great idea. :smh: Especially when those oil companies are mostly tax exempt.

There is next to ZERO benefit for us to do this. Unless said oil companies are bribing you... sorry, contributing to your campaign. :mad:

[Jason]

Freeeeedom

[overpowered]

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/rubio-struggles-condemnations-obamas-cuba-policy

[thesameguy]

Steve Benen is a terrible writer. Immigrated from Cuba? Really?

[FaultyMario]

My faith in Barry is restored. Not to 09 levels but close.

Our friend BrianJ would be proud.

[overpowered]

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/mccain-vs-mccain-cuba

[overpowered]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/tucker-carlson-confused-about-women-in-combat.html

[Random]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/tucker-carlson-confused-about-women-in-combat.html

Derp. :|

[21Kid]

:smh:

Bill O’Reilly: Black people should wear “Don’t get pregnant at 14″ T-shirts (http://www.salon.com/2014/12/18/bill_oreilly_black_people_should_wear_dont_get_pre gnant_at_14_t_shirts)
"You know, don’t abandon your children. Don’t get pregnant at 14. Don’t allow your neighborhoods to deteriorate into free fire zones. That’s what the African-American community should have on their T-shirts.”I mean, I know this guy is a pile of waste... But, when will it end. :(:smh::(

[overpowered]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/michele-bachmann-i-destroyed-liberal-arguments-with-my-superior-logic/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyXFlcSwHqY

[21Kid]

:erm:

[LHutton]

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bruce-schneier-sony-hackers-completely-owned-this-company



The Sony hack is “every CEO’s worst nightmare” and the leaked data is probably going to send someone to jail, security expert Bruce Schneier says. That, not any threat of violence, is the real power of this hack.

[thesameguy]

I'm beyond positive that this hack wasn't North Korea. There is just lulzsec all over again, but worse. Someone got access to Sony at the right time and they're playing it up as much as they can - if you were going to damage an entity by releasing internal documents why would you not wrap up the threat of physical violence while simultaneously pointing the finger at a likely culprit? It's a great play. I just can't believe that after '11 Sony didn't invest everything they had into data security. Getting hacked once that bad was pretty damaging - but twice? I don't know how anyone in their right mind could possibly trust Sony at this point. It'll be very interesting to see how this unfolds, and what future dumps look like.

[overpowered]

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10858075_760706567356887_4846921983075888871_n.jpg ?oh=e26f098ef1adc1e95b2fcd1c8c0a3cfe&oe=553DCFBE

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oLo6q28qQo

One problem with this guy's argument: When we had poll tests, they were in the south which voted overwhelmingly Democratic. The Democrats were still the more racist of the two parties back then. Black people tended to vote Republican back then. Keep in mind that the Republican party was the party of Lincoln and of the government that punished the south after the civil war.

Voter tests were eliminated by the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Around that same time, the GOP began a campaign to win the south which included, among other things, giving up all parts of the GOP platform that attempted to address or fight racism and try to appeal to conservative white (and often racist) voters, who were and are still the majority there. It's known as "The Southern Strategy". It was the beginning of the movement of racists from the Democratic party to the Republican party.

[LHutton]

I'm beyond positive that this hack wasn't North Korea. There is just lulzsec all over again, but worse. Someone got access to Sony at the right time and they're playing it up as much as they can - if you were going to damage an entity by releasing internal documents why would you not wrap up the threat of physical violence while simultaneously pointing the finger at a likely culprit? It's a great play. I just can't believe that after '11 Sony didn't invest everything they had into data security. Getting hacked once that bad was pretty damaging - but twice? I don't know how anyone in their right mind could possibly trust Sony at this point. It'll be very interesting to see how this unfolds, and what future dumps look like.
It's more likely dirty bosses who don't want to go to jail rather than the threat of violence:

[MR2 Fan]

http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/azLBr3Z_460s.jpg

[overpowered]

https://news.vice.com/article/legal-pot-in-the-us-is-crippling-mexican-cartels

[overpowered]

From the NY Times Editorial Board:

Prosecute Torturers and Their Bosses (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/opinion/prosecute-torturers-and-their-bosses.html)

[21Kid]

It's sad that nothing will come of it. :( No one has the balls to do what is right.

[FaultyMario]

https://news.vice.com/article/legal-pot-in-the-us-is-crippling-mexican-cartels


File Under: No shit, Sherlock.

[overpowered]

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/fox_affiliate_edits_protestors_to_sound_like_they_ re_chanting_kill_a_cop

[Freude am Fahren]

It should be noted that everyone want's to scream Fox Propaganda at that, the station is not owned by Fox. Fox News the cable station and Fox affiliated (and to some degree even Fox owned) stations have hardly anything to do with eachother editorially.

However, that station is owned by Sinclair Broadcast Group, a company I used to work for, who might be even more right leaning, and absolutely do push their agenda through the stations they own.

Which is by far more than any other station owner group in the country.

[21Kid]

OP: Could you at least post the headline, so we at least know what the links are about, please?

[TheBenior]

Whoa whoa whoa, it's not like he works with computers for a living or anything.

[21Kid]

You're right. :( my bad.

Step 1: Copy the headline from the article and paste it to the new comment
Step 2: copy and paste the link below the headline
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

Bonus points for highlighting the headline in the new comment and clicking the picture of the world with the paperclip(?) and pasting the link. It creates a hyperlink to the article without the long web address showing.

Better Ross? :finger:

[overpowered]

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorial-cartoons/jack-ohman/e7sdau/picture4825887/alternates/FREE_960/OHMAN122314color.jpg

[overpowered]

North Korea, keeping it classy.

http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-blames-u-internet-outages-024955185.html

[LHutton]

To be fair, in hindsight I don't even think Sony was hacked, it was just a cynical marketing ploy for a very mediocre comedy.

[Rikadyn]

To be fair, in hindsight I don't even think Sony was hacked, it was just a cynical marketing ploy for a very mediocre comedy.

They were hacked, because they don't know internet security, but I doubt NK had anything to do with it.

NK had made noise about the movie, which gave it more publicity than Sony wanted, Sony took it as an opportunity to squash the film under the guise as threats from North Korea. Then the FBI decided to agree so there could be new cybersecurity bills could get through. All this is tinfoil hat, but it makes sense.

[LHutton]

Possibly. Maybe the publicity and extra ticket sales were just a bonus.

[overpowered]

Anti-intellectualism is taking over the US

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/18/anti-intellectualism-us-book-banning

[Freude am Fahren]

Possibly. Maybe the publicity and extra ticket sales were just a bonus.
Except that's completely false. There were no 'extra ticket sales'. Even though a lot of showings sold out, it was only in 10% of the theaters it was originally supposed to be in. First day gross was "over 1 million." That's not great. The VOD release hurt those numbers, but I'm sure didn't make up for it. I'd be surprised if the VOD numbers are over a million. By comparison The Imitation Game was released in about twice as many theaters and earned 3x as much money. I'm betting with a full release, they would have made at least 3 million, maybe more since there was still controversy.

[LHutton]

Except that's completely false. There were no 'extra ticket sales'. Even though a lot of showings sold out, it was only in 10% of the theaters it was originally supposed to be in. First day gross was "over 1 million." That's not great. The VOD release hurt those numbers, but I'm sure didn't make up for it. I'd be surprised if the VOD numbers are over a million. By comparison The Imitation Game was released in about twice as many theaters and earned 3x as much money. I'm betting with a full release, they would have made at least 3 million, maybe more since there was still controversy.
Not sure how that proves it's false, the other movie was probably just better. There are definitely people who went to see this movie purely because they felt they were 'sticking it to Kim' and that's what I was getting at. Lot's of them probably would never have even heard this movie was coming out without the cheap media coverage substituting for expensive advertising and frankly I fall into this category. Only for the news coverage, you could have mentioned the name of this movie to me next month and I'd never have heard of it. If this movie did badly anyway, then that's a true sign of just how lame it is.

[Freude am Fahren]

Right, but the movie absolutely would have made more money (box-office at least) with a full release.

Sure they sold tickets to some people who may not have otherwise seen it, but they lost at lot more ticket sales to the mainstream.

Dockinomics ?

[LHutton]

Okay I see what you're saying now.

Anyway I find the whole situation puzzling, after 'Team America' nothing could really take the piss out of the North Korean government much more, so I have trouble with accepting a hack as the only reason for pulling it. There's something that doesn't really tie up for me. I can see Rikadyn's point about passing bills but why Sony were so eager to pull it in the first place I don't know.

[Freude am Fahren]

A point was made (I think on Fox News...) that it may have been pressure from Sony Corp in Japan. It's a theory; a weak one, but still a possibility.

Just remember we're talking about Hollywood Execs here. Not much spine there.

[MR2 Fan]

A point was made (I think on Fox News...) that it may have been pressure from Sony Corp in Japan. It's a theory; a weak one, but still a possibility.

Just remember we're talking about Hollywood Execs here. Not much spine there.

anything pointed out by Fox News is weak at best

[overpowered]

GOP Platform for 1956:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=25838

Those pinkos.

[Rikadyn]

anything pointed out by Fox News is weak at best

Especially seeing as I doubt anyone in japan would give two fucks about upsetting Koreans, north or south.

[21Kid]

I saw that they released The Interview on youtube. I didn't realize that you had to pay to watch anything on youtube. :? When did that change?

[overpowered]

Apparently about a year and a half ago:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-22474715

[overpowered]

Seven Reasons Police Brutality Is Systemic, Not Anecdotal

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/seven-reasons-police-brutality-is-systematic-not-anecdotal/

[overpowered]

https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/10517408_774088835980871_4651998470803188480_o.jpg

[overpowered]

House GOP leader confirms role at white-supremacist event

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/house-gop-leader-confirms-role-white-supremacist-event

[21Kid]

House GOP leader confirms role at white-supremacist event
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/house-gop-leader-confirms-role-white-supremacist-event

It’s not unrealistic to think a story like this one puts Scalise’s leadership role in real jeopardy.
:erm:Really? Just his leadership role? So, it's still okay for him to represent all voters?


The other House Republican leaders are reportedly “aware of” this story and “are monitoring” developments,:erm: So, as long as it doesn't create to much of a problem they're not going to do anything??? Am I reading that right?

[overpowered]

I wish this would actually happen:

http://samuel-warde.com/2014/12/conservatives-nugent-palin-ticket-fb/

[overpowered]

Sleeping 7-year-old girl shot in head during no-knock police raid on wrong home

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/aiyana-stanley-jones-raid/

[LHutton]

Sleeping 7-year-old girl shot in head during no-knock police raid on wrong home

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/aiyana-stanley-jones-raid/
Oh hell. That's just what wasn't needed right now.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sbCzXQsVoQ

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/nypd-cop-throws-man-to-the-ground-after-spotting-him-doing-ellen-degeneres-dance-dare/

[overpowered]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/georgia-showdown-guns-everywhere

"I'm confused; which one was the good guy with the gun?"

[LHutton]

Title was misleading, it said, "showdown." I was expecting a high-noon thing.

In other news, "Oops."

http://news.yahoo.com/georgia-police-chief-says-accidentally-shot-wife-000816951--abc-news-topstories.html


Georgia Police Chief Says He Accidentally Shot Wife

[speedpimp]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/georgia-showdown-guns-everywhere

"I'm confused; which one was the good guy with the gun?"

At least Guy No. 2 was level headed enough to just complete his business, leave and then call the cops. Guy No. 1 seems to be fucking paranoid and is not the type of person who should own a gun, let alone wear one in public.

[LHutton]

At least Guy No. 2 was level headed enough to just complete his business, leave and then call the cops. Guy No. 1 seems to be fucking paranoid and is not the type of person who should own a gun, let alone wear one in public.
I agree, two No.1s would have ended in someone getting shot. Hope he gets his gun confiscated.

[thesameguy]

So, Ohio and Kansas are now a Libertarian and/or Tea Party experiment and Georgia is now a free-carry experiment and Colorado is now a free weed experiment. This is getting good!

[21Kid]

Republicans lay plans to fight FCC’s net-neutrality rules
Utility-like regulation would go too far, GOP lawmakers say (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/republicans-lay-plans-fight-fcc-210700099.html)

Because when it fits their agenda, the GOP will say that a free market is bad. :smh: Because the big telecom companies will pay them to say so.

[LHutton]

Large mergers and takeovers will lead to the death of the free market and arguably already have.

[thesameguy]

Republicans lay plans to fight FCC’s net-neutrality rules
Utility-like regulation would go too far, GOP lawmakers say (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/republicans-lay-plans-fight-fcc-210700099.html)

Because when it fits their agenda, the GOP will say that a free market is bad. :smh: Because the big telecom companies will pay them to say so.

That's not exactly accurate. The telecoms don't want net neutrality - the FCC has legislated net neutrality. The GOP is fighting for the market, against regulation. Republicans fighting the FCC is party appropriate, actually.

The carriers all want to be able to make more money by charging content providers extra for carrying their content quickly... eg, AT&T wants to be able to earn extra money from Netflix because Netflix takes up so much of their traffic. Where it gets really bad is with Comcast, Time-Warner, etc. where the carrier is ALSO a content providers. Then you get into potentially serious problems, where a carrier/provider could ("would likely") prioritize their content at the expense of someone else's, or charge unpayable fees to other content providers to ensure they could never be competitive. That is evil.

At the core, though, consumers are ostensibly paying for connections to the internet - bias-free connections to get whatever they want. For carrier to then also charge a content provider means not only are they getting paid on the back-end, but also that their customers are no longer buying unbiased connections. If you live in most of America where you only have access to one or maybe two ISPs and it just so happens that your ISP is too small to command any of Netflix's prioritization budget or where your ISP has simply priced Netflix out of the market, you're fucked. No Netflix for you.

Net-non-neutrality is total bullshit and is at best a short-term cash grab. Yeah, the market will eventually sort it out but some serious damage will be done in the long term and ultimately nobody will make real money from deregulating. This is another example of big business (ie, The Carriers) and the GOP scratching each others' backs at the expense of small business (eg, Netflix) and the consumer.

[Sad, little man]

If American politicians want us to give them more respect, a good first step would be to change the symbol of power in the House of Representatives away from a goofy looking wooden hammer that looks like it was lifted from a Cracker Barrel restaurant or perhaps a western themed "Whack-a-Mole" arcade game.

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=967&d=1420591019

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=966&d=1420591018

966967

[LHutton]

A pimp cane:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Lord_President_of_the_Court_of_Session%27s_Mace_-_geograph.org.uk_-_991449.jpg

[LHutton]

That's not exactly accurate. The telecoms don't want net neutrality - the FCC has legislated net neutrality. The GOP is fighting for the market, against regulation. Republicans fighting the FCC is party appropriate, actually.
Still anti-free market though. What many Republicans fail to acknowledge is that without regulation you don't get a free market. It sounds contradictive at first but without regulation, large corporations would be price-fixing and bribing officials (more openly). Similarly without net neutrality SMEs will be less able to afford the internet provisions they need to advertise and do business.

[LHutton]

10 dead in terrorist attack in France.

http://news.yahoo.com/ten-dead-paris-newspaper-shooting-prosecutors-112635032.html

[thesameguy]

Still anti-free market though. What many Republicans fail to acknowledge is that without regulation you don't get a free market. It sounds contradictive at first but without regulation, large corporations would be price-fixing and bribing officials (more openly). Similarly without net neutrality SMEs will be less able to afford the internet provisions they need to advertise and do business.

Says you. The Tea Party would beg to differ.

[21Kid]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The GOP-led House voted Tuesday to extend a special committee's investigation into the deadly 2012 attacks on an American diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, that killed four Americans, including a U.S. ambassador.:|

[thesameguy]

The GOP are people people.

[21Kid]

Only those four though... apparently.

[neanderthal]

The GOP have announced that their first action will be a vote to pass the Keystone measure.

The White House has said Obama will veto such a measure.
So, even though they know that their vote will be vetoed, they are going to go ahead with this. It's Quixotic at best, and yet they persist.

Just who's interests are the GOP politicians serving? Seriously?
After Benghazi, IRSgate, Fast and Furious, Obamaphones, and every other nothing event that they concocted, what is causing people to still vote for them? It's not Obama has killed anybody's sister or taken their guns, so what is the root cause of this,.... hatred?

Am I alone in thinking it can only be his race? Because, seriously, what the fuck?

[Sad, little man]

He's a Democrat, they're republicans. He is (or was) popular with the people, and he makes them look bad, so they hate him. It's quite simple really.

Anyway, to answer your question, with regard to the pipeline, they're basically serving no one's interests at this point... Like literally, no one. No one in the oil industry cares about it much anymore.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/01/07/keystone_xl_vote_does_the_pipeline_even_matter_any more.html

[MR2 Fan]

The GOP have announced that their first action will be a vote to pass the Keystone measure.

The White House has said Obama will veto such a measure.
So, even though they know that their vote will be vetoed, they are going to go ahead with this. It's Quixotic at best, and yet they persist.

Just who's interests are the GOP politicians serving? Seriously?
After Benghazi, IRSgate, Fast and Furious, Obamaphones, and every other nothing event that they concocted, what is causing people to still vote for them? It's not Obama has killed anybody's sister or taken their guns, so what is the root cause of this,.... hatred?

Am I alone in thinking it can only be his race? Because, seriously, what the fuck?

The problem isn't that more people are voting for the GOP...the problem is less people are voting period and all of those old retired people with nothing better to do on a Tuesday in November will typically vote GOP. The young "motivated" voters that come out for the presidential elections don't seem to care about mid-terms.

[thesameguy]

Surely some people hate him because he's black. But those same people probably hated JFK because he was Catholic. There are always -ists out there. But SLM is right - the "big anti-Obama sentiment" is just the same old party line GOP vs. Dems. There is no rhyme or reason or sense about it - it's just a game of discrediting the other side through any means available.

Also, what MR2 said - sadly the people most motivated to vote are the fucking nut jobs. We have abortion and a black president and a separation of church and state and all sorts of other things that most of us are a-ok with. It's the fucking nut jobs that want baby Jesus hand-delivering every baby in school that get out there and vote hoping to get what they want. The sane ones who realize we're not ever going to kill campaign contributions or nail the coffin shut on religion are the ones not voting because getting up and going somewhere to push a button that doesn't actually do anything is crazy. And we're not crazy.

[overpowered]

12 powerful political cartoons responding to the Charlie Hebdo attack

http://www.vox.com/2015/1/7/7508387/cartoonists-respond-charlie-hebdo

[FaultyMario]

And we're not crazy.

It's bad enough when the other side tries to bomb them colored folk.