Politics

[Freude am Fahren]

https://www.democracynow.org/images/headlines/33/48733/quarter_hd/h6-el-paso-trump-supporter-arrested-immigration-center-knife-loaded-gun-thomas-bartram.jpg

Context?

[George]

I found this from a google image search: https://www.democracynow.org/2019/8/8/headlines/trump_supporter_with_loaded_pistol_knife_arrested_ outside_el_paso_immigrant_center

[Crazed_Insanity]

Looks like Hispanic and Asian cop asking a white nationalist dude to do a cavity search of himself to make sure he doesn’t have any assault rifles up his ass!

[FaultyMario]

Context?

Trump supported was stopped in the vicinity of a Trump Shelter, police found he was carrying a loaded gun and a knife.


What I found funny was the Chucknorrisesque depiction of the President in the tailgate wrap.

[The359]

And a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.

[Tom Servo]

/r/infowarriorrides (https://www.reddit.com/r/infowarriorrides)

[George]

:eek:

[neanderthal]

Jeffrey Epstein dead of suicide. I'm slowly becoming more and more of a conspiracy theorist.


I'll be in my mums basement.

[MR2 Fan]

Jeffrey Epstein dead of suicide. I'm slowly becoming more and more of a conspiracy theorist.


I'll be in my mums basement.


It's interesting seeing the blame game go around Twitter on who could have um, helped....like both Bill Clinton AND Trump could be responsible as BOTH were guilty of things with him....let's not just blame one or the other (or possibly dozens of other people in power for that matter)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Remember trump was planning or trying to run on the democratic ticket with Jesse Ventura back in 2004.

You really can’t blame conspiracy theorists too much these days...

Anyway, I think it’s fair to never trust both trumps and Clintons anymore.

[MR2 Fan]

The simplest explanation could be that the police officers were so disgusted with his known behavior that they let him die anyway

[Crazed_Insanity]

He’s on suicide watch.

That officer should lose his job.

[Tom Servo]

A lawyer I follow points out that there are more than 3 suicides a day in prison currently, and that he recently tried a case where a prisoner killed himself while under "watch", but that watch meant that the guard had to get up and walk three feet to actually see said prisoner, which she did not do in the time it took him to kill himself.

Epstein seems like a sociopath and a coward and I have no doubt he'd take his own life rather than face actual consequences. That answer seems significantly more likely to me than any conspiracy.

[Leon]

He’s on suicide watch.


The news report I read here earlier said that he had been removed from suicide watch. That said, they will just have rehashed some media release from somewhere, and then introduced poor spelling and grammar.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Isn’t one of Qanon conspiracies about high ranking democratic officials running child sex trafficking ring?

Events transpired certainly didn’t help.

Imho, both parties can no longer be trusted. Other than some partisan politics, W and Obama have pretty much the same foreign policies. Donald Trump was eyeing the WH and it mattered to him not which party to run, he just picked whichever’s easiest.

[Tom Servo]

I see dear leader is now going after Bill Maher.

Finally, after all this time, I am getting that "winning" feeling.

[Tom Servo]

A lawyer I follow points out that there are more than 3 suicides a day in prison currently, and that he recently tried a case where a prisoner killed himself while under "watch", but that watch meant that the guard had to get up and walk three feet to actually see said prisoner, which she did not do in the time it took him to kill himself.

Epstein seems like a sociopath and a coward and I have no doubt he'd take his own life rather than face actual consequences. That answer seems significantly more likely to me than any conspiracy.

Said lawyer: https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1160258660871749632

[Crazed_Insanity]

Liberals have intellectual lawyers, conservatives have conspiracy theorists who can gerrymander like crazy.

Guess which side is better at grabbing attention and votes?

Of course this may very well be nothing, but you can’t deny that this is very good fuel for the conspiracy fire.

[Tom Servo]

Is there any chance you can tone it down on the "word association" thing? Yes, the word "lawyer" came up, and somehow you twisted that into something entirely different that has *NOTHING* to do with the subject.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not trying to twist anything, but isn’t it true that people on the left are more intellectual/rational/boring, and people on the right are more faith based/emotional/crazy?

Of course such generalization isn’t absolutely true, I myself are more faith based and crazy but I personally think I’m left leaning...

Anyway, point is that I don’t think most on the right would care what that lawyer has to say. Conspiracies will probably win out in the aftermath...

[Tom Servo]

isn’t it true that people on the left are more intellectual/rational/boring, and people on the right are more faith based/emotional/crazy?

No it's not, and it has nothing to do with what he said.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wasn’t commenting about what the lawyer said, just saying right leaning people most likely won’t care about what he said.

Further, there’s no way the lawyer could prove the conspiracies wrong. All he can say is that our justice system sucks and suicide is very plausible because even rich white lives don’t matter in jail... and attorney general William barr will probably make a statement saying that the death of Jeff exonerated the president from grabbing any underage pussies and Jeff could very well be off on his private island chilling with bin laden on their private islands...

Anyway, I’ll tone down now. :p

[Rare White Ape]

This is hilarious :D

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/nyregion/proud-boys-antifa-trial.html?fbclid=IwAR1JJjd9yFS2pnNHSasjb0uEkKFtNT mGY1ZqF7pD7N__2zUMXD2eeU_jIwQ

[MR2 Fan]

I've noticed something, a problem with the propaganda situation.

In North Korea, every home has a radio that plays the propaganda information 24/7 and they don't have a way to turn it off.

In America, a lot of people voluntarily tune into news stations like Fox News that play propaganda for hours on end every day, and also go on the echo chambers of their facebook groups, etc. This is worse for retirees, people who have to work from home (I know someone personally who turned into basically a right-wing lunatic after being forced to work from home), etc.

There should be a general intervention for the mental health of people.....only watch 1 to 2 hours of news every day. No matter what channel, they don't need to watch more than that every day. To do otherwise is to invite paranoia, where they're perpetually living in a conspiracy movie.

[Crazed_Insanity]

One has to be really dumb and living in a cave to believe in such propaganda.

In America, sure, people can also be dumb... and they 'choose' to live in a cave/bubble for whatever reasons and enjoying whatever brand of their own propaganda to help them feel safe.

IMHO, everything is fear driven. Conservatives are afraid of the liberals fucking up their world and liberals are afraid of conservatives fucking up their world.

Little do they realize that they're both fucking up this world... but of course they are also both making this world better in certain cases... it all depends on what they do, no really dependent on their political affiliation.

Take a prolife/prochoice stances as example. There's really no need to pick a side. There's really nobody around who's really against life or against choice. People need to work together without being so extreme. Each side needs to do things to help the other side feel safer. Only then will people crawl out of their caves and truly see the world for what it is and realize propaganda sucks.

[FaultyMario]

One has to be really dumb and living in a cave to believe in such propaganda.

In America, sure, people can also be dumb...


For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Do you really think Fox News viewers are dumb? Do you think harbouring that sort of prejudice can help you understand what's happening in American politics?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Don't be such a politically correct liberal mi amigo.

How do you decide somebody is dumb?

Or in the politically correct sense, nobody is really dumb? Political correctness is truly dumb.

Furthermore, I'm making the claim that Americans are dumb. (not risking offending mexicans or any other nationalities) Why are you implying that only Fox Viewers are dumb? I never said that. I believe there are dumbass CNN MSNBC viewers too.

Just take a look at IQ of any population around the world. Do you really believe most of the population are above average in IQ?

Come out of the cave and take off your liberal shades and see the world for what it is. There are a lot of people with below average IQs and they occupy both political spectrum. Personally, I'm not even sure if I have very high IQ. I don't think I've ever taken a proper IQ test. Besides IQ, our actions may qualify us as dumb. For example, if Jesus is totally bogus, then I would be a serious dumbass. However, if Jesus is real, then my decision would make me very smart! ;)

Forrest Gump could be considered as smart because he wasn't fear driven and managed to do the right things... and I don't think he's very political.

[Tom Servo]

I've noticed something, a problem with the propaganda situation.

In North Korea, every home has a radio that plays the propaganda information 24/7 and they don't have a way to turn it off.

In America, a lot of people voluntarily tune into news stations like Fox News that play propaganda for hours on end every day, and also go on the echo chambers of their facebook groups, etc. This is worse for retirees, people who have to work from home (I know someone personally who turned into basically a right-wing lunatic after being forced to work from home), etc.

There should be a general intervention for the mental health of people.....only watch 1 to 2 hours of news every day. No matter what channel, they don't need to watch more than that every day. To do otherwise is to invite paranoia, where they're perpetually living in a conspiracy movie.

I was reading an article a little while back that was talking about all the people comparing the current state of the country to 1984 and calling things Orwellian, and pointing out how 1984 actually got it all wrong. It wasn't that the government would force people to listen to propaganda, and Orwell never saw the case that people would purposely immerse themselves in propaganda and spread it of their own volition.

I wonder if I can find that article again, it said it better than I just tried to.

[neanderthal]

I've noticed something, a problem with the propaganda situation.

In North Korea, every home has a radio that plays the propaganda information 24/7 and they don't have a way to turn it off.

In America, a lot of people voluntarily tune into news stations like Fox News that play propaganda for hours on end every day, and also go on the echo chambers of their facebook groups, etc. This is worse for retirees, people who have to work from home (I know someone personally who turned into basically a right-wing lunatic after being forced to work from home), etc.

There should be a general intervention for the mental health of people.....only watch 1 to 2 hours of news every day. No matter what channel, they don't need to watch more than that every day. To do otherwise is to invite paranoia, where they're perpetually living in a conspiracy movie.

All started with the elimination of the fairness doctrine.

What's crazy, is that, just thinking about it right now, even with literally thirty years of being investigated, smeared by the GOP and their propaganda various wings, and never being found guilty of anything, Hillary Clinton is still considered by many (i'm thinking of a particular member here who's previous handle rhymed with willi) to be untrustworthy. They've investigated her every which way there is, investigated her family foundation, smeared and defamed her for so long and she's come up clean as a whistle, AND TO THIS DAY the lightbulb moment hasn't come for so many people that perhaps there's a disconnect between what they've been tuning into, listening to and hearing, versus reality.
Think about that. Every single incident, catastrophe, gaffe, scandal, whatever you want to call it, over 3 decades, regarding this woman, essentially completely farcical.

That really does show how pernicious propaganda can be.

[FaultyMario]

Just take a look at IQ of any population around the world. Do you really believe most of the population are above average in IQ?



I truly can't expect an aerospace engineer to not know the statistical value of an average.

You see, that's the problem with discussing stuf with you, homie, you ought to dial down on the extreme claims. I know they're your argumentative building blocks, but they kind of don't work. Nah, they do not work.

[neanderthal]

One has to be really dumb and living in a cave to believe in such propaganda.

In America, sure, people can also be dumb... and they 'choose' to live in a cave/bubble for whatever reasons and enjoying whatever brand of their own propaganda to help them feel safe.

IMHO, everything is fear driven. Conservatives are afraid of the liberals fucking up their world and liberals are afraid of conservatives fucking up their world.

Little do they realize that they're both fucking up this world... but of course they are also both making this world better in certain cases... it all depends on what they do, no really dependent on their political affiliation.

Take a prolife/prochoice stances as example. There's really no need to pick a side. There's really nobody around who's really against life or against choice. People need to work together without being so extreme. Each side needs to do things to help the other side feel safer. Only then will people crawl out of their caves and truly see the world for what it is and realize propaganda sucks.


I believe Hillary Clinton will be worse than Trump. circa 2016 :eek: :smh: :lol:


A marvelous case of self own.

[MR2 Fan]

https://media.giphy.com/media/kYsBThMhhalLG/giphy.gif

[neanderthal]

I truly can't expect an aerospace engineer to not know the statistical value of an average.

You see, that's the problem with discussing stuf with you, homie, you ought to dial down on the extreme claims. I know they're your argumentative building blocks, but they kind of don't work. Nah, they do not work.

<whispers>They commonly backfire

[Crazed_Insanity]

Do you really think Fox News viewers are dumb? Do you think harbouring that sort of prejudice can help you understand what's happening in American politics?

Sr. Mario, what were you trying to ask me here? Can we stick with the topic and try to minimize personal insults?

Like i said, I mentioned nothing about Fox News viewers being dumb. I think you are the one prejudging here.

Do you believe what’s happening in America is the result of Americans being very smart about their dealings with one another? Or bubbling themselves up believing that what’s wrong with the world is result of people on the other side? is that very smart?

Am I really wrong to think that Americans are dumb considering current political climate? What the fuck is the point that you’re trying to make? That am I the only dumbass extremist in America for making such a claim? America is just fine? Just a little bit immigrant challenged and the poor are just a little money challenged... everything is just fine?

I believe Americans are fucking dumb to allow politics to drive them to wherever we are right now. Both sides can be dumb and both sides can bubble themselves up. If you believe the world is fucked up because people of the 'other' side is doing all the harm, then you are probably too political and too dumb to not see the value or contributions from the 'other' side. Is my claim really that extreme? I really fail to see how. Maybe I'm just too dumb. If you can enlighten me, I'd appreciate it.

[FaultyMario]

Dude, where in that post did I insult you!?

I'm guilty of having done it in the past, and while I'm not proud of that¹, I stand by my statement that you ought to tone down the extremism in your examples.

[FaultyMario]

Back to the topic, people don't watch Fox news because they're dumb. People don't choose to believe their propaganda because they have a restricted understanding of the evidences on which such messages are grounded. It's a lot more complicated than that.

I'll just say that. Maybe we can discuss each of the complications with a nuanced POV, or we can stay in extremis.

[neanderthal]

Dude, where in that post did I insult you!?

I'm guilty of having done it in the past, and while I'm not proud of that¹, I stand by my statement that you ought to tone down the extremism in your examples.

He conflates things a lot too.

Rightfully, he is indignant, after all i've used his own words to crucify him and he's pissed. Rather than acknowledging that he was, and still is, wrong about Hillary Clinton, he's pissed. And in his state of anger he has misdirected his malevolance at you. So let me apologise to you for his misdirected anger. Mea culpa.

[neanderthal]

Back to the topic, people don't watch Fox news because they're dumb. People don't choose to believe their propaganda because they have a restricted understanding of the evidences on which such messages are grounded. It's a lot more complicated than that.

I'll just say that. Maybe we can discuss each of the complications with a nuanced POV, or we can stay in extremis.

They watch to confirm what they already "know" or suspect. That is a normal human trait. And Faux News doesn't disappoint them. Confirmation bias.

[FaultyMario]

That takes away all the content engineering that goes on behind all journalism in general and in the particular form of reality TV that Murdoch sells.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I truly can't expect an aerospace engineer to not know the statistical value of an average.


I kinda took that as an insult. Maybe I shouldn't because clearly you yourself cannot expect that an aerospace engineer to not know the statistical value of an average, right? I guess we'll just take these words as unnecessary and strike them from record.

Anyway, suffice to say that average IQ cannot be considered as 'smart' right? You need to have a relatively above average IQ to be smart, right? So was I really being 'extreme' in saying that most people are dumb? Or perhaps I just need to be more political correct by saying most people are just not that smart?

Plus, I've also added forrest gump into our discussion... explaining that there are other kinds of dumb, not necessarily just about low IQ. I'd consider a low IQ Forrest Gump smart because he is not driven by fear and he couldn't careless about politics.

Exactly what am I being 'extreme' about by saying that Americans are dumb given where we are today? Politically incorrect perhaps, but I honestly do not see my view as extremist in any way.

Yes, there are a lot of nuances, our problems are complicated, but I'm not trying to write a PhD thesis here. I can admit I lacked nuance, but I don't think I'm being extreme by saying that Americans are not very smart by keep up with politics... and the problem sure as heaven isn't one sided.

Propagandas and bubbles can go both ways. The problem MR2 brought up isn't just exclusive to the fox viewers IMO. When investigations came up short, people on both sides tend to think that not guilty means complete innocence for their politicians, but if it's the politicians on the other side, then they must be guilty as hell no matter what. The conservatives believe Trump was exonerated. The die hard liberals believe Clintons are completely innocent! Dude, Clintons are smarter and way craftier than Trump when it comes to politics. If Trump were to face the same grand jury Bill Clinton faced, I'm sure we'll be able to throw Trump out of office. Speaking of that incident, I do think Republicans or Ken Starr were being assholes about it, but hey, if Bill didn't do the deed, he wouldn't end up getting caught. If Bill Clinton were really thinking for the greater good of the country, he really should've just resigned and ended the political circus/distraction and allowed Al Gore to carry on the torch... and most likely, we'll never have W to deal with for the following 8 years. But noooo... Bill stayed on... and now the wife wants in too. Are they really doing it for the good of the country? Or their own vanity? Any homo sapiens should be able to figure that out.

Back to the topic, I do believe both sides are in their respective bubbles and seeing people of the other side as 'enemies' rather than brothers. I think this is mutherfoquen dumb and I just can't understand what's so extreme about my view.

[neanderthal]

Hillary was going to worse ...


https://youtu.be/4Qb0wLYv0jo

[FaultyMario]

Anyway, suffice to say that average IQ cannot be considered as 'smart' right? You need to have a relatively above average IQ to be smart, right? So was I really being 'extreme' in saying that most people are dumb? Or perhaps I just need to be more political correct by saying most people are just not that smart?

Exactly what am I being 'extreme' about by saying that Americans are dumb given where we are today? Politically incorrect perhaps, but I honestly do not see my view as extremist in any way.


I don't know dude, I've done some work in really impoverished areas and I haven't encountered people who you'd call dumb or slow.
They have their prejudices, sure. However, some of the most industrious people I've met were at least partially illiterate, so I haven't seen a relationship between so-called intelligence and political attitude.

What I have seen, though, is that the more a person feels (socially) trapped, the more they look for someone to lay the blame on. In the case of the persons in the marginal contexts that i visited, they always had the 'hope' that their problems could be solved, so rational solution-building was still possible.

I can totally see where that motivation stops, and in the case of people who have seen their level of welfare get pushed down, how they could be less likely to look for rational explanations. Heck, that downpush needn't be real, it could be perceived. And that's my guess as to why older folk, who might look at the past with rose-tinted glasses, buy into the narrative.



Exactly what am I being 'extreme' about by saying that Americans are dumb given where we are today? Politically incorrect perhaps, but I honestly do not see my view as extremist in any way.


By 'extreme' I mean that you have this black-and-white approach to your arguments, but I think they could be more effective if you went for the grays.

[Crazed_Insanity]

People who are impoverished or illiterate for sure can still be smart. Most Americans are not living below poverty line and I do believe most are now college graduates, but money and higher education also don’t mean people are smarter. My IQ most likely didn’t increase much with higher education. I just gained more knowledge. If the ‘knowledge’ I gained were propaganda, that will most likely result in me making even more dumb choices.

Not trying to be offensive or black and white. Good for you for never meeting any dumb people. I’d consider myself below average in IQ, so now you’ve at least met one dumb person.

Besides the IQ that’s God given or thru natural selection, people can also make smart or dumb choices, right?

Where America is politically today, do you really believe is the result of a lot of smart people making smart choices? You don’t have to be politically correct with me.

I do agree with your analysis of the situation regarding your past work experience. Having this sense of hope is critically important. People need that... and Obama won because of that. My other main point is that partisan politics dashes any hope and forces people into playing blame games. That’s just not very smart.
Trump is the master of playing the blame game for personal gain.

Anyway, we can’t change our IQ much, but we can try to make smarter choices and cease playing blame game. We cannot change people’s political bias but hopefully we can change the laws and make them beneficial for all.

[MR2 Fan]

random info: Trump's tweets often get around 60,000 likes, which someone figured out line up with many bot or troll accounts. Note that his twitter has 63 million followers. He's not well loved in twitter, despite the "follower" count.

Many people just follow him to see the batshit insane stuff he posts and to be aware of it.

[Tom Servo]

That's the main reason I follow that "Press Secretary bot" instead of him. I know how important his follower count is to him, and would prefer not to contribute to it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Many people just follow him to see the batshit insane stuff he posts and to be aware of it.

If the media failed to report his shit because they're only reporting all the good tweet's Trump's tweeting, then I can understand the logic.

I do admire people boldly venturing outside of their 'bubble', but seriously, why torture yourself in this case? Not really sure if it's a good idea to follow somebody you hate so much so closely... may even be bad for your health. Remember even his ex-chief of staff recommended people to ignore his stupid schizo tweets because they're just bunch of covfefes? We really need to choose to spend our energy wisely. Let the russian bots follow and like him should be good enough.

[MR2 Fan]

If the media failed to report his shit because they're only reporting all the good tweet's Trump's tweeting, then I can understand the logic.

I do admire people boldly venturing outside of their 'bubble', but seriously, why torture yourself in this case? Not really sure if it's a good idea to follow somebody you hate so much so closely... may even be bad for your health. Remember even his ex-chief of staff recommended people to ignore his stupid schizo tweets because they're just bunch of covfefes? We really need to choose to spend our energy wisely. Let the russian bots follow and like him should be good enough.

I think an #unfollowtrump trending hashtag would be a good idea, but if it only goes down by 1 million of his 63 million "followers" it wouldn't really mean much and the trumpers would claim "victory" when it doesn't work out that well

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, not sure if we really need a movement to stop following him..., we just need to follow somebody more positive and inspiring.

I think that's the bad thing about getting way too political, we get so wound up at the negative stuffs and completely forget about moving toward positive stuffs...

[Tom Servo]

I think an #unfollowtrump trending hashtag would be a good idea, but if it only goes down by 1 million of his 63 million "followers" it wouldn't really mean much and the trumpers would claim "victory" when it doesn't work out that well

Well, if history shows anything, Trump will claim that the people running Twitter are all liberals and they're preventing people from following him. He's already done that a few times when Twitter's culled a bunch of bots from their platform.

[MR2 Fan]

anyone starting to feel like wearing red MAGA hats is more and more like red arm bands?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, thanks to Trump, more than half of Americans actually don't really want to make America great again... so sad.

I'm gonna keep America mediocre just to spite Trump! This is what is happening to us...

And it's not just the right and left, I saw an article last night about Debra Messing and Susan Sarandon's tweet war: https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2019/08/13/debra-messing-reignites-political-feud-susan-sarandon/2003257001/

Reminded me of Neanderthal and Billi! Hello!?!?!? What and why the fuck are you still fighting about that? Can you guys move on!?!?!?!?

[George]

anyone starting to feel like wearing red MAGA hats is more and more like red arm bands?

I didn't think much of them one way or another during election season in 2016, but it seems to me the folks who continue to wear them in 2019 are wearing them like they're giving the finger to anyone who doesn't follow their demagogue.

So, yes, I agree.

They're probably the same assholes who install Truck Nuts on their vehicles. Every time I see those, I wish I had some bolt-cutters with me.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, thanks to Trump, more than half of Americans actually don't really want to make America great again... so sad.

I'm gonna keep America mediocre just to spite Trump! This is what is happening to us...


That all assumes that a) what Trump wants to do would make America greater and b) that people who don't agree with Trump think that America is mediocre. Just 'cause it says it on the hat doesn't actually make it so.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No argument there. I just hate the current reality that the phrase ‘make America great again’ has such a huge negative connotation now...

Luckily we’re not to the point of unable to wear red baseball caps..., but as we further polarize ourselves, that just might happen.

[neanderthal]

America WAS NEVER fucking great.

When was it great? Great for who? How was it great?

[MR2 Fan]

America WAS NEVER fucking great.

When was it great? Great for who? How was it great?


It's always been about the ideals more than the reality, for sure.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This is not a debate with Neanderthal, but just want to elaborate more with what MR2 said...

To paraphrase one guy who landed on the moon: 'One small step for a priviliged, descendants of slave owning white man, but one giant leap for all man and woman kind!'

I thought that was pretty fucking amazingly great.

Not to mention lots of American white dudes, along with American black dudes, kicked the ass of the white supremacists called the Nazis!

I thought that's pretty cool if not great.

Lastly, how about influences? Whether it's democracy, capitalism... or just economy in general... the might of US dollars, pop culture of sports, music, movies, scientific research, tech, etc...

America has never fully realized the ideal version of herself, but she has definitely been a global leader. Sad part is that it can be a global drag as well when she goes off the deep end.

We're also pretty great and causing financial tsunamis and installing dictators around the world... destroying the world thru wars or consuming most of earth's resources.

Good bad or ugly, we're pretty great at all of that!

America is far from perfect, but she has certainly been greatly infectious. Just look at how the iron curtain has fallen. Even in Communist China... take a look at the way they're dressed. Their cars. Their buildings. Heck, even their new aircraft carriers. The all look very Americanized to me.

America has been a great nation... and it's up to us to keep her great... or let her fall.

[neanderthal]

It's always been about the ideals more than the reality, for sure.

And those ideals left out black people, brown people, homosexuals, Native Americans, etc etc etc.

Someone was cannonising FDR for the new deal on twitter and got corrected on how almost everything in the new deal excluded blacks in some way. Or it didn't remove obstacles put in by smaller government jurisdictions and it wasn't until the civil rights act was passed that those obstacles could then be bypassed. By which point we were already economically disadvantaged. It was a brilliant takedown. The OP confessed that they never knew about that. American history past and present is littered with ideals that were exclusionary. And it sells that ideal to the entire world, including it's own citizens, and holds itself up as a bastion of freedom and democracy. Botswana has freedom and democracy. New Zealand. Malta. France. Iceland. Uruguay. Etc etc etc.

But let me not get on the soapbox.

Conservatives love to refrain "if it's not so great why don't you leave?" and I ask why they didn't leave when Obama was President. When they were complaining. I usually then go on to advise them that my complaints about America are not limited to who's in the White House, but in general, and then to ask them what they are doing to fix it? What are they doing to make America reflect it's ideals more? I almost always end with "because i'm staying to fix it."

[SportWagon]

Or do they mean Great like Alexander?

That is, great in the eyes of its inhabitants (which, true, will on analysis mean only some inhabitants), or great in the eyes of the rest of the world (which might include aspects of terrifying and brutal)

Make America Terrible again? (Like Ivan)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think America is great not only because of its lofty ideals, but also made the greatest steps toward such ideals.

Take all men created equal part. Which past cultures really believed that? Let alone actually striving for that?

Modern day communistic nations may have also attempted such ideal, but clearly failed catastrophically.

America is not just for whites nor black nor conservatives nor liberals.

Just because a white dude landed on the moon 1st, doesn’t make such American achievement less great. Also, if somehow all African Americans were to leave the country, I’m pretty sure America would probably never ever be great again.

[SportWagon]

"Great" is not a well-defined, or well-constrained, word.

In some rhetoric, such as the type Trump engages in, at times different meanings will be used at different times as suits the moment. Demonstrations of one type of greatness might be later used to try and claim proof of another type of greatness.

[FaultyMario]

The Hill: Obama has taken active interest in Biden's campaign.
The Internet: Someone, finally!

[FaultyMario]

"Great" is not a well-defined, or well-constrained, word.

In some rhetoric, such as the type Trump engages in, at times different meanings will be used at different times as suits the moment. Demonstrations of one type of greatness might be later used to try and claim proof of another type of greatness.

Dude, It's a euphemism for "white".

As in: Make America WHITE Again.

[Crazed_Insanity]

True. (responding to sportwagon)

I'm not sure exactly what Trump meant by great, but I can tell you my definition of what makes/made America great.

When people across the globe drink and eat your junk food, watch your movies and listen to your music and watch you play balls and buy your dollars... because its supported by your GREAT military... it's kinda hard to argue against America's greatness. I know people around the world don't all speak American, but for sure people are not learning English because of UK, right? ;) Like I said earlier, even for all the negative stuffs, America can be pretty great too. How we consume, pollute and meddle and reshape the world... when we're only a small percentage of the world population. Even people living below what US considers as poverty is still better than most nations around the world. People are risking their lives to come to America!!! Why? Yeah, we're not the richest country per capita GDP... there are other crazy rich tinier nations out there, but none are really world changers/influencers like US.

I'm not sure how someone could explain how America was NEVER great.

I really do believe founding fathers were eyeing the highest possible ideals and tried to laid the best possible foundation for Americans to build on that. Which other nation had nobler dreams/ideals and tried to continued to chase that dream even today?

I'd like to attribute this great American dream to Christianity, but I suppose it's not a necessity. Elon Musk, who wasn't born in the US nor a Christian, is probably the most American dude ever! He knew conditions in south africa isn't as good as silicon valley. He never really invented anything new, banking, EVs, rockets were not invented by him, but he improved them. His entrepreneurial spirit isn't based on profit, but simply to want to ensure survival of human species by making humans interplanetary... he often sounds crazy and almost always failed to deliver what he promised, yet, he has marched on further than any other company.

America has allowed more people to be able to chase after their own dreams than any other nations IMHO. That's what made it great.

Of course she's getting corrupted and sick... hopefully it's just a cold or flu, not some sort of terminal disease...

[FaultyMario]

Dude, it's a code word. And "Great" doesn't include you.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mi amigo, I don't know what code you're talking about.

I'm not going to stop trying to make America great and I'm not going to stop chasing my dreams.

I find it hard to believe that most Americans truly believe in the Nazi model. If that were the case, they could've collaborated with Hitler and cleansed the world back then. Why wait til now?

[FaultyMario]

Trumpism is a white supremacy movement.

You're not white, they despise you.

[FaultyMario]

I mean, it doesn't include me either, but the border hasn't crossed me. Yet.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, considering fleeing Nazi's usually hide in latin america... maybe they'll see you as white. ;)

Anyway, I don't believe Trump is a white supremacist, some of his supporters might be... even so, they're still my american brothers and sisters. They can use the ignore feature on me if they want, I don't care. If one of them shoots me, well, I'll try to run. Even if I'm dead, at least America will end up with one less mad man because he'll also either shoot himself or be shot by police or be locked away.

How ever things play out, good will triumph over evil. As long as we're alive, have the courage to not only dream, but to also fucking chase it!

All immigrants who had the genes to chase dreams became Americans. The rest stayed back in their own countries and accept the status quo.

[neanderthal]

When was America great for black people? :twitch:
When you're done telling us that, tell the same for Native Americans. Then gay people. Transexual. Etc.

We will wait.

[FaultyMario]

they could've collaborated with Hitler and cleansed the world back then. Why wait til now?

You a christian, no? We could agree that you believe James 4:17 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+4%3A17&version=NIV), right? Can we suppose that we also agree that Nazism isn't the only form of Nationalist Fascism?

So an American Commander fighting Fascism in Europe ought to have been recognized as an American Hero (https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/law-oliver/), right?

How would you characterize, in christian terms, the fact that he wasn't recognized a hero? Isn't it part of the whole "whoever has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth." imperative?

[FaultyMario]

Also, Mo:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECDnAddXkAAkUwF.jpg

[FaultyMario]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfpwoVROJBo

[Crazed_Insanity]

You a christian, no? We could agree that you believe James 4:17 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+4%3A17&version=NIV), right? Can we suppose that we also agree that Nazism isn't the only form of Nationalist Fascism?

So an American Commander fighting Fascism in Europe ought to have been recognized as an American Hero (https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/law-oliver/), right?

How would you characterize, in christian terms, the fact that he wasn't recognized a hero? Isn't it part of the whole "whoever has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth." imperative?

Yes, I believe he is indeed a hero and very Christ like. Thanks for helping me and whoever didn’t know about him recognize him now.

That said, What is the point you’re trying to make by asking me these questions? What this African American has done somehow is indicative of America is not a very great country? Or am I missing your point completely?

And to characterize in Christian terms... we don’t do what Jesus would do to be recognized. Christ himself wasn’t recognized by the religious authorities at the time. We just need to do, and don’t even expect to be recognized.

A lot of white artists weren’t recognized while they were alive and died poor. Great artists are great whether there was immediate recognition or not. As the the ones giving the recognition, are you saying if they fail to properly recognize, then somehow that’s not very Christ like?

Anyway, America engaged the Nazis quite late, but at least they did eventually engaged and helped saved the world. Failure to recognize a black soldier doesn’t negate what America did during the war.

Just as if Albert Einstein were found out to be a racist or sexually harassed a gay kid or what ever else liberals find unacceptable, doesn’t mean we need to dump the theory of relativity in the trash.

[FaultyMario]

Mine was a counterpoint to your "America was great always or else we wouldn't have fought Nazis" argument.

If America was so great, why isn't this guy, who fought not the Nazis, but their best buddies, given the recognition he obviously deserves. Two options, maybe fighting Nazis wasn't a priority for America the great or maybe Commander Law wasn't really part of great America.

Number two. How do you reconcile either of those two options with Christian faith?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mine was a counterpoint to your "America was great always or else we wouldn't have fought Nazis" argument.
I do believe you inserted the word always there. Anyway...


If America was so great, why isn't this guy, who fought not the Nazis, but their best buddies, given the recognition he obviously deserves. Two options, maybe fighting Nazis wasn't a priority for America the great or maybe Commander Law wasn't really part of great America.
Really? Only 2 black or white options?
No other options could possibly exist?


Number two. How do you reconcile either of those two options with Christian faith?
There were lots of forgotten heros I’m sure. Because America failed to recognize all nameless American heros... this is enough for us to conclude that America sucks? How do you reconcile that with any faith?

[FaultyMario]

Really? Only 2 black or white options?




Ok, let's group them. White or people of color.

https://blog.history.in.gov/blacks-must-wage-two-wars-the-freeman-field-uprising-wwii-desegregation/

[Tom Servo]

Really? Only 2 black or white options?
No other options could possibly exist?


Believe me when I say this is not a route you want to go down.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That’s why I’m asking him if I really only have those 2 options.

[Tom Servo]

You are the king of two options. Just recently it was either that people are "smart" or "dumb". Your whole modus operandi is the "black or white" thing. Either you're for making america great or you want to keep it mediocre. That has been your entire playbook for *years*. You do *not* want to call out someone else for it unless you feel like reliving your posting history.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ok, let's group them. White or people of color.

https://blog.history.in.gov/blacks-must-wage-two-wars-the-freeman-field-uprising-wwii-desegregation/

Look, America started out owning slaves. This is also not a practice exclusively American. However I’m pretty sure founding fathers wanted to abolish slavery but resistance against such ideal would’ve prevented USA from forming. So that’s probably why they compromised and looked like hypocrites.

Even if founding fathers were all racists and didn’t quite believe people of color have the same human DNA, they still accidentally wrote down this very lofty ideal that we’re all created equal.

From that time forward, by hook or by crook, minority rights had been steadily equalizing, right?

We’re far from totally fair yet, but America isn’t lagging that much behind, is she?

Should Americans just wait til they sort out their own imperfections first before fighting the nazis? That would be the Christian thing to do?

[Crazed_Insanity]

You are the king of two options. Just recently it was either that people are "smart" or "dumb". Your whole modus operandi is the "black or white" thing. Either you're for making america great or you want to keep it mediocre. That has been your entire playbook for *years*. You do *not* want to call out someone else for it unless you feel like reliving your posting history.

If I suck so bad and I was warning Mario to not suck as bad and I should still get blamed?

Also, do you really believe I said all Americans are dumb? Did you really read what I wrote?

[Tom Servo]

I said you claimed people were either "smart" or "dumb" with no nuance in between. I never said you claimed that all Americans are dumb, where did you get that from?

[Crazed_Insanity]

How many shades of gray do I need to best get my point across? American politics is screwing the nation over... is this caused by Americans behaving on the smart side or dumb side? I really thought 2 shades were enough to drive my point.

If I’m already shade blind and can only see black and white, why is that a good idea to feed me such black and white questions?

[Tom Servo]

Man complains about being given a binary choice, immediately defends boiling everything down to binary choices.

Also, I guess we can settle that you made up that whole bit about me thinking you said all Americans are dumb.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, can you answer my question? How many shades of dumbness/smartness do I need in order to drive my point across?

The point Mario is trying to present to me, do you agree there can only be 2 possibilities?

If you don’t wish to participate in my stupid discussion, you can always ignore me.

What value did you add by interrupting my discussion with Mario?

[neanderthal]

Look, America started out owning slaves. This is also not a practice exclusively American. However I’m pretty sure founding fathers wanted to abolish slavery but resistance against such ideal would’ve prevented USA from forming. So that’s probably why they compromised and looked like hypocrites.

Even if founding fathers were all racists and didn’t quite believe people of color have the same human DNA, they still accidentally wrote down this very lofty ideal that we’re all created equal.

From that time forward, by hook or by crook, minority rights had been steadily equalizing, right?

We’re far from totally fair yet, but America isn’t lagging that much behind, is she?

Should Americans just wait til they sort out their own imperfections first before fighting the nazis? That would be the Christian thing to do?


So, just to follow what you've posted here. Because the intent of the founding fathers was to create a nation of equals, in the midst of slavery, which they compromised accepted, that made America great? Because it doesn't sound great for black people. Which, then, begs the question, again:

When was America great?

[Tom Servo]

The point is you complained about someone doing something you always do. It's not specifically that you don't have the correct number of options for one specific instance of this. Otherwise, I have absolutely no interest in the discussion Mario is having with you because I know it'll go nowhere like the rest of them do.

I also didn't know that there was a requirement that one must add value when they post. I just thought it was hilarious that you, of all people, would have a problem with that, and it amused me. So there's the value I added, and it was entirely value for me.

So, no, I'm not going to answer your question, especially when you keep dodging mine.

[neanderthal]

Anyway, can you answer my question? How many shades of dumbness/smartness do I need in order to drive my point across?

The point Mario is trying to present to me, do you agree there can only be 2 possibilities?

If you don’t wish to participate in my stupid discussion, you can always ignore me.

What value did you add by interrupting my discussion with Mario?

I'll dumb it down so you can understand what he's saying. There is such a thing called nuance. You seem to lack it. go out of your way to avoid using it. Your posts, end up being cringeworthy racist screeds. Or sexist. Nativist. Homophobic. Insert other prejudice dumbfuckery here.

TL; DR. Use nuance, don't be a dick.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Swervo, then I’m sorry, I’ll have give you the same treatment as Neanderthal in this thread from now on.

I’m here to discuss and learn, not to bicker on such personal level so negatively.

If you wish to be a dick while telling billi not to be a dick and think America is never great, so be that. No argument from me.

[neanderthal]

Swervo, then I’m sorry, I’ll have give you the same treatment as Neanderthal in this thread from now on.

I’m here to discuss and learn, not to bicker on such personal level so negatively.

If you wish to be a dick while telling others not to be a dick and think America is never great, so be that. No argument from me.

You've just been told that not everything is a binary choice. Have you learnt that yet?

And he was not being a dick.
And, when was America great?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, I’ve learned that I’m racist homophobic jerk and I shouldn’t be too binary/extreme but need to answer binary/extreme questions from you guys. Got it.

Happy now?

Oh and one more thing, yes, America sucks and was never great at anything. I need to accept that extreme view point while claiming America to be great would be too extreme for you to swallow. I’m so sorry about that.

Can you leave billi alone now and let us move forward with actual political discussions?

Mario, hope you’re still here?

[Tom Servo]

while telling billi not to be a dick and think America is never great, so be that. No argument from me.

I guess you must have seen that in the same spot you saw me say that all Americans are dumb. Go ahead and run with what you want to believe is happening here.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Swervo, what exactly do you want to achieve by continuing? You don’t have to answer me. Try to answer yourself.

I’d happy to discuss with you on any topic, but I really cannot continue to talk to you about billi. Yes, he’s the only binary extremist here. Feel free to enlighten me with regard to why Americans are not being dumb about their polarizing politics and the nuances of how lousy or great America is. Do you actually believe America was never great? I’d be happy to hear your views on that. Our discussions really don’t have to be so billi centric.

What are your views?

Honestly I just want to learn and understand different views, not trying to find fault and personally attack you back.

If you just want to continue to point out and laugh at the obvious MO of billi, then you go ahead and have a good laugh.

[Tom Servo]

Hey, stop putting words in my mouth and then we're all set. Otherwise, I feel like I have to clear the record when you claim I've said things that I haven't said. Though you make a fair point, anybody on here can clearly look back through this thread and see whether I said those things or not, so I probably don't need to do that.

But to try to answer your other questions, I don't think Americans are being dumb necessarily. Propaganda is a powerful tool and whether or not you're smart has very little to do with how susceptible you are to it. Critical thinking is a skill, not something innate to intelligence, and it's something that I don't think our schools have taught very well. I know I could be better about it. What's interesting to me is the power that the internet has put in the hands of propagandists. Propaganda is always the most effective when it latches on to your preconceived notions. Platforms like Facebook have both a) made your preconceived notions publicly available to be preyed upon and b) have real-time analytics to let propagandists know whether their latest round of it has been effective or not. I mean, what a dream for the Russian government. They don't even need spies on the ground to figure out if something is working, they get real-time data on user engagement from Facebook. Throw one thing out there to try to divide people and almost nobody shares or likes it, but that other thing get shared thousands of times. Make more stuff like that! FWIW, this is why I really didn't like your "smart" vs. "dumb" thing. Lots of smart people get swayed by effective propaganda, and IQ is a poor test of intelligence, so not only did I think it was not a good idea to drop everyone into those two buckets, but I also think the overall premise of who is smart and who isn't was fundamentally flawed.

It's almost impossible for me to quantify if it was "great", since it's greatness can change drastically depending on your circumstances. If you are a white Christian male, it's probably been pretty great. For others, maybe not so much. Even so, for others, it might be greater than the place they left to come here. America has definitely been great at specific things. It's also been pretty shit at some other ones. I'd paraphrase the Churchhill quote about democracy (yes, I'm aware that he was quoting someone else, though I don't know who), America is the least great country except for most other countries. I think the first and fourth amendments are two things that make this country truly great. I think the second amendment makes it pretty shit. I know there are other people on this forum who will feel differently than me about that, and they're not wrong and it doesn't make me right. America's been pretty great for me overall, but it's also obvious to me that I am pretty lucky in that regard. I am in the 10% of earners, own my own home, and can ride a bicycle to work. I ride past multiple tent cities full of people who have been left behind every day on that commute, and I see new people showing up every day in them. A year or so ago there was a burned out RV next to one of the train stations I ride past. It smelled really bad. Found out later that a husband and wife who had been laid off and could no longer afford their rent were living in it when it caught fire. They got out, but their dog was still inside and the guy ran in to try to save it. They both burned to death. I'm pretty sure America's not that great for them.

[FaultyMario]

My sentiments, pretty much.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That’s more like it, that’s what I like to read!

Anyway, my earlier claim that most people do not have above average IQ, that’s just statistical fact, not me being extreme. However, that was not the only point presented... I also said that even if most people have the IQ of Forrest Gump, do you think he’d be as politically polarizing? Or be susceptible to Russian propaganda? At least in that movie, FG made a lot of smart choices... and Jenny, with higher IQ ended up making a lot of dumb choices. Low IQ is out of our hands, but making dumb choices is mostly our fault. The main point I was trying to drive across was do you guys think most Americans were making smart or dumb choices? I still don’t believe we are where we are today because most of us made the smart choices as Forrest. Most us are more like Jenny.

Anything that makes you hate half of your American brothers or sisters is probably propaganda imho.

As for whether if America is great or not... why does it have to be from the perspective of an individual? If you’re an alien or historian of the future or God or whatever outsider... giving USA a grade.... would USA be near the top or bottom compared to other human nations past or present?

I don’t understand why it’s so hard.

Do you agree USA was never great?

If you agree with Neanderthal more than with me, I’d like to know why.

[Tom Servo]

Well, in an ideally distributed set of IQ scores, that would not be a statistical fact. Of course this is not ideally distributed, but the average should be *close* to the middle point and is just as likely to be on the other side, that most people do have a higher than average IQ. I'm not a statistician, but that's at least my understanding. I also stand by the idea that IQ is not a valid determination of how susceptible one is to propaganda. I don't think "smart or dumb choices" is relevant here. People are making human choices.

And of course it has to be from the perspective of the individual. Even in the case of the alien or historian or God, those are all individuals. You will always have your own scoring system. Do you prioritize happiness? Economic prosperity? If that, do you include Economic Inequality? Population? Cultural Influence? What if happiness and prosperity changed the environment of the entire globe for the worse, is that still a good grade? What if it only changed it for the worse for every other country, but your own benefited? I mean, if you managed to indirectly, through your own prosperity, wipe out every other civilization, would that be a top grade or a bottom grade?

It's incredibly hard.

I don't know if the USA was great or not because I don't know the definition of great that you are using.

I agree with Neanderthal more than you if only because I don't understand why you are so concerned that everyone say that the USA was at some point great. If it was great for you, that's wonderful! It's been pretty great for me, which I'm thankful for. It's not been great for everyone, and there's no possible way to score that in a way that will take everyone into account.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ok, let’s forget about whether if most people have above or below average IQ since I also agree with your statement here:

“ I also stand by the idea that IQ is not a valid determination of how susceptible one is to propaganda.”

Let’s also save the America’s greatness discussion til later.

I just need to understand what you meant by human choices. Why is that more relevant than us humans making smart or dumb choices?

[MR2 Fan]

Technically wouldn't 50% have higher than average IQ and 50% lower than average....because average?

[Tom Servo]

Not necessarily. It's like that thing about if Bill Gates walked into a room everyone's average net worth will go up even though their actual net worth didn't go up. If you had five people with 2 dollars and one guy with 14, the average would be (14 + 2 * 5) / 6 = 4. The average is four, yet everybody but one is below average. That relies on massive statistical outliers though, which you're not going to see when talking IQ. If you're talking about the median IQ, then yes, by definition 50% would be higher and 50% would be lower.

And by human choices I mean making choices that are essentially human nature. If your critical thinking skills haven't been trained and someone is purposely targeting what you already believe to be true for propaganda, I don't think that has anything to do with being smart or dumb. I also don't understand the importance of labeling it as such.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Swervo, you are really going thru extraordinary length to prove me wrong, but anyway, the IQ thing is not super critical to my main point so I’m just gonna drop it.

As for human decisions, yes, we definitely have human nature. If porn is available for us to look at, sure we would choose to look at it. It’ll also be easier for alcoholics to choose drugs over being sober. Gazillion years of evolutionary experiences of being afraid of creatures/enemies attacking us in the dark possibly contributed to us being more afraid to darker skin people now... our emotional part of the brain is probably making those human decisions.

However, humans have another part of the brain that can make more ‘rational’ decisions. Perhaps you’d like ‘rational’ more that ‘smart/dumb’?

If I make the choice to watch porn and jerk off all day, to drink or use drug too much, to think all black people are out to rob me... these would be the ‘human’ decisions I make, but are they ‘rational’ ones?

Can you really say that they’re irrelevant?

Trump tweeted something stupid and we can justify that as oh he just made a human decision. No biggie? The smart decision is to simply ignore them, but you can’t say such decisions are irrelevant.

It’s very possible our president is subjected under some propaganda, but that should excuse a persons improper behavior, right?

You really don’t believe in smart/dumb decisions? Or perhaps I’m misunderstanding/ misreading you again?

Importance of labeling decisions as such is to help train your critical thinking skill. Make smart decisions = brighter future. Make stupid decisions = you end up fucking others and yourself over.

Can you agree Trump made a lot of stupid decisions and they’re not irrelevant?

Of course I do agree this isn’t really that black and white just as Neanderthal thought I’m stupid for not voting Hillary whereas I thought he’d stupid for loving Hillary so much. I can agree in such case, we made human decisions because it’s not quite as obvious who’s smart or dumb... or certain matter may take time for us to find out. A lot of scientists probably though Einstein was stupid or crazy at first..., but anyway, in general, our decisions matter.

We need to make decisions that’s better for our future.

Hating nearly half of all Americans can’t possibly be good for America.

[FaultyMario]

I know that context plays a big role on individual choice. The short version is this: people have beliefs, people then get together and create what are called "arrangements" that are in line with their beliefs, people choose their individual actions according to the set of available options that is framed by those arrangements or else they could face sanctions by their peers.

What propaganda does is erode the arrangement system by introducing conflicting beliefs into the cultural context of people, so that people have justification to act in ways that are "anti-social".

The problem with propaganda is that is not a "naturally occurring" phenomenon in the discussion that groups of people regularly have and from which changes to the arrangements emanate. It is rather the result of one subgroup of people, a particularly powerful one, whose intention for disrupting the underlying beliefs is always to appropriate the benefits of the collective.

As an example, there used to be this conspiranoid theory that Agenda 21 was part of the New World Order, as a secret set of rules to impose a dark world government. In reality, Agenda 21 was the result of a discussion process that went on between many representatives of countries, in a pretty transparent way, that dealt with creating a new arrangement system at the world level for dealing with issues of pollution, equality and inclusion in cities and urban spaces.


And by human choices I mean making choices that are essentially human nature. If your critical thinking skills haven't been trained and someone is purposely targeting what you already believe to be true for propaganda, I don't think that has anything to do with being smart or dumb. I also don't understand the importance of labeling it as such.

The NWO propaganda had bigger effects on people from isolationist or rural contexts, regardless of whether they were "smart" or "dumb".

[FaultyMario]

Speaking of conspiranoids.

It strikes as odd that people from the US would think that the world has any influence on how you guys run your country. You, the country with the most overseas military stations, the country with the harshest policies for those who accept your foreign aid, the country with the most multinational corporations employing tens of thousands of people in foreign countries. It does not compute.

[Crazed_Insanity]

At least according to the Bible, it was propaganda from the serpent which cause the initial divide between man and God.

At least in theological concepts, God creates and build up, satan divides and destroys.

It is human nature for us to believe in satan’s tactic more in our fallen state in this fallen world.

Anyway, even if your not Christian, I’m pretty sure propaganda naturally occurred with the existence of humans. It’s just that social media made it even easier to spread.

[Tom Servo]

Swervo, you are really going thru extraordinary length to prove me wrong

I did? But this right here is why I wasn't bothering in the first place. You asked me what I thought and I told you, that's all I did.

[FaultyMario]

At least according to the Bible, [propaganda] [the serpent] [theological concepts] [social media]

I'm pretty sure that when the bible was compiled for the Hebrew tradition in the 4th or 3rd century BCE, or when it was officially arbitrated for the Christian churches in the Late Middle Ages, there were no governments or commercial organizations capable of using mass media to sway public opinion and beliefs.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I did? But this right here is why I wasn't bothering in the first place. You asked me what I thought and I told you, that's all I did.

I still can’t agree with on this most people have higher than average IQ point, but it’s distracting us from the main point so let’s just drop it.

You still believe smart/dumb choices or rational choices are irrelevant and we should label human choices as such?

Or we should just agree to disagree and drop that too?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm pretty sure that when the bible was compiled for the Hebrew tradition in the 4th or 3rd century BCE, or when it was officially arbitrated for the Christian churches in the Late Middle Ages, there were no governments or commercial organizations capable of using mass media to sway public opinion and beliefs.

Agreed.

However, In the garden of eden, there were no masses at all, just Adam and Eve. I still think serpent was meddling around using propaganda tactics to cause seeds of doubts and eventual separation between them and God.

Anyway, regardless of whether propaganda is naturally occurring or invented by Russians isn’t really important at this point. Safe to say we all think it’s wrong and not beneficial, at least to the ones being targeted.

How can we fight it?

I think we can fight it by making smarter more rational choices and not make stupid human emotional choices. How we distinguish the difference? Hopefully by making choices that will benefit our children?

Of course, nationalists believe building the wall will protect their children, can we help them see others ways that can benefit their future without just telling them that they can’t build that wall? Try to understand the other side and try to help bridge the divide rather than allowing the Russians to mess with us. If Forrest Gump can make smart choices, I’m sure we can too.

[Tom Servo]

I still can’t agree with on this most people have higher than average IQ point, but it’s distracting us from the main point so let’s just drop it.

You still believe smart/dumb choices or rational choices are irrelevant and we should label human choices as such?

Or we should just agree to disagree and drop that too?

Wait is the "extraordinary length" the thing on averages vs. medians? I was responding to MR2 with that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I know. I probably shouldn’t have made any comments on your response to mr2 and risked side tracking our main discussion. My bad.

Hope we can continue our discussions regarding whether if choices can be smart or dumb...

[neanderthal]

Yeah, I know. I probably shouldn’t have made any comments on your response to mr2 and risked side tracking our main discussion. My bad.

Hope we can continue our discussions regarding whether if choices can be smart or dumb...

You continue with this stupid nonsense. Not every decision is smart/ dumb vs nothing else.

Given the choice to do nothing, and then get arrested, or go turn oneself in to the police, which is the stupid decision? Which is the smart decision? The end result is the same. That's a binary choice.
There is a continuum of choices in almost every single decision you make every single day. "Should I get up now?" is a yes or no question you can ask yourself when the alarm rings. "Yes" doesn't neccesarily mean you're going to work, because you can call in sick and play video games all day. But you got up.
"No" doesn't mean you're not going to work. Perhaps you're going to meditate for 20 minutes and grab breakfast on the way to work.

It's fucking insane that you keep painting things in a binary manner, yet when it came time to vote, where there literally was a binary choice, you decided to be stupid that there was nuance to be applied. You clearly understand nuance but stay saying stupid shit.

This is why half of this board has you on ignore.

[neanderthal]

Oh, and, again, when was America great?

[MR2 Fan]

glad I could help

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, get out of here with your reasonable questions and shit.

[FaultyMario]

In the shadow of Marvel's censorship. (https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2019/aug/17/art-spiegelman-golden-age-superheroes-were-shaped-by-the-rise-of-fascism)

[Dicknose]

And just to be the annoying "drag it back" guy... "most people can be above average"...

Average is not the same as "median". Median is the middle point. There should be the same number above and below the median.
If your distribution is a "bell curve" (normal distribution) then its assumed that it is symmetrical and that the median and average are the same.
There are lots of things that are quite close to the bell curve, but are not actually (eg height). It is possible that IQ is not perfectly distributed and the more than half the people are above the average.
Note - weight is definitely not a bell curve. The heavy end is more extreme - in that its possible to be 5 times the median weight (which would require a few people weighing 0 to average back down)

And lastly... the word "most" is ambiguous. It can mean "more than half", but can also mean "significant majority".
So yeah - maybe 51% of people are above the average. But I doubt 60% would be. That would require the "low IQ" end to be either more common (more very dumb than very smart) or more extreme (the dumbest are further from average than the smartest)
How many people would use the word "most" to describe 51%??? (and dont say "most would!")


Resume politics...

[Tom Servo]

Nerd.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyone has actual data with real curves?

Naturally I was assuming a normally distributed bell curve with 68% of the population having just average IQ. To really be smart, you need beat this average group denoted in yellow, graph here: https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-distribution-of-IQ-scores-look-like

I suppose I probably shouldn’t consider this average group as dumb. Not smart doesn’t mean dumb, a better way to classify them would just be ‘average’.

Smart/dumb would be black/white, average region would be shades of gray.

Now, to choices. We can probably classify them similarly?

There can be obvious smart and dumb choices, but most of our choices would be gray, or the so call human choices according to Swervo?

The above statement more palatable and accurate to you guys?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think Neanderthal has posted a fair critique of my comments, so I’ll try my best to respond to help clarify our misunderstandings and try not to piss him off further...




You continue with this stupid nonsense. Not every decision is smart/ dumb vs nothing else.
Fair criticism. Hope my previous post can help you understand why I made such mistake and hope in the future, I’ll try my best to not forget to include shades of gray. Hey, maybe it’s one of the ‘human decisions’ for me to keep on forgetting about shades of gray...


Given the choice to do nothing, and then get arrested, or go turn oneself in to the police, which is the stupid decision? Which is the smart decision? The end result is the same.
Not necessarily. Turning yourself in has the less chance of you getting shot at compared to police come chasing after you. I’d also add doing the right thing is smarter than not doing the right thing.



There is a continuum of choices in almost every single decision you make every single day. "Should I get up now?" is a yes or no question you can ask yourself when the alarm rings. "Yes" doesn't neccesarily mean you're going to work, because you can call in sick and play video games all day. But you got up.
"No" doesn't mean you're not going to work. Perhaps you're going to meditate for 20 minutes and grab breakfast on the way to work.
Yes, I’d agree these would be the gray decisions or maybe be the human decisions Swervo was talking about.


It's fucking insane that you keep painting things in a binary manner, yet when it came time to vote, where there literally was a binary choice, you decided to be stupid that there was nuance to be applied. You clearly understand nuance but stay saying stupid shit.

This is why half of this board has you on ignore.

Yes. You’re right, but I’m also not wrong that there are obviously smart and dumb choices, right? Not ALL choices are gray. Clearly, you yourself believe that voting for anyone else but Hillary would be a dumb choice, right? We may have different standards of what’s smart/dumb, but we all do have some sort of standard in some cases, right?

[FaultyMario]

Mode
1. It is the most frequent or probable measurement in the data set.
2. There can be more than one mode for a data set.
3. It is not influenced by extreme measurements.
4. Modes of subsets cannot be combined to determine the mode of the complete data set.
5. For grouped data, its value can change depending on the categories used.
6. It is applicable for both qualitative and quantitative data.

Median

1. It is the central value; 50% of the measurements lie above it and 50% fall below it.
2. There is only one median for a data set.
3. It is not influenced by extreme measurements.
4. Medians of subsets cannot be combined to determine the median of the complete data set.
5. For grouped data, its value is rather stable even when the data are organized into different categories.
6. It is applicable to quantitative data only.

Mean

1. It is the arithmetic average of the measurements in a data set.
2. There is only one mean for a data set.
3. Its value is influenced by extreme measurements; trimming can help to reduce the degree of influence.
4. Means of subsets can be combined to determine the mean of the complete data set.
5. It is applicable to quantitative data only.


##

[mk]

Average is a shifted X-axle.
Median is a shifted Y-axle.

[SportWagon]

"Great" is not a well-defined, or well-constrained, word.

In some rhetoric, such as the type Trump engages in, at times different meanings will be used at different times as suits the moment. Demonstrations of one type of greatness might be later used to try and claim proof of another type of greatness.Dude, It's a euphemism for "white".

As in: Make America WHITE Again.
I thank you sincerely for that perspective.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That is certainly not a baseless perspective, but I believe such perspective is also not a very constructive perspective.

Even for a white supremacist, seriously, when was the last time white supremacy won out in the end? Nazi's lost. American segregationists lost... not only losing the civil war, but also losing the right to own slaves... and now rights of the non-white's continued to gain momentum. From this perspective, Neanderthal is absolutely right that America was NEVER great that way. White supremacists' greatness had never been sustainable longterm. To try again is foolishness.

Now for non-white supremacists, such perspective may cause us to want to kick the ass of somebody wearing the MAGA hat. Even seeing people wearing MAGA hats getting seriously beaten up would cause us to laugh about such violence and thought the stupid jerk deserved it. Is that really the path we want to go?

I've definitely seen non-whites wearing MAGA hats. We certainly need to be cautious and not allow white supremacists to gain anymore power in the future, but at the same time probably should just give people with different political orientations with the benefit of the doubt... that not assume that all conservatives are white supremacists, right? No need to repeat Billi's follies.

[George]

Oh, and, again, when was America great?

I've given this some thought since neanderthal posted the original question. July 4, 1776? December 15, 1791? The Louisiana Purchase? The summer of 1918 in Western Europe? The Berlin Airlift? That week or two after September 11, 2001 when everyone seemed united?

One possible answer that I haven't ruled out yet: July 16, 1969 - July 24, 1969 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11).

[dodint]

I will say with much confidence that if it were ever great it was long before Twitter.

[George]

Yeah, like back when the president's nickname was Silent Cal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Coolidge).

[neanderthal]

I've given this some thought since neanderthal posted the original question. July 4, 1776? December 15, 1791? The Louisiana Purchase? The summer of 1918 in Western Europe? The Berlin Airlift? That week or two after September 11, 2001 when everyone seemed united?

One possible answer that I haven't ruled out yet: July 16, 1969 - July 24, 1969 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11).

Who was it great for in 1776? The British? Probably a no.They had to tuck tail and lick their wounds. Native Americans? Definitely a no, even to this day. Blacks? Definitely a no, even to this day.
Ratification of the Bill of Rights didn't change things for Native Americans and black Americans. Neither did the Louisiana purchase. Nor did WW1, WWII, the moon landing, or Sept 11. September 11 made life difficult quite fucking shit for Arab Americans, Muslims in general and collaterally Sikhs, and Hindus. That's not to mention the devastation of Afghanistan and Iraq that followed.

Those were great things that happened, but from my perspective they didn't make America great because none of those made America actually live up to the ideals it professes. The 13th amendment still allows a form of slavery ffs; prison labor.

America has never lived up to its ideals. Not for large parts of its population. It's over promised and under delivered to those segments of the population. And until it can live up to it's ideals for all citizens it can't be great. People bankrupt themselves paying for healthcare for fucks sakes.

We're not going to examine the things/ incidents/ happenings where America could have absofuckinglutely been great but was the complete opposite. The AIDS crisis in the 80s. Flooding urban areas with drugs. To fund war corporate imperialism in South America. Nevermind Afghanistan and especially Iraq. Puerto Rico, just recently. Flint. New Orleans. The fucking pipelines. Police brutality. (we been dealing with this shit since before Rodney King!! and that's 1991!!!) Columbine.Today, with all the evidence of global warming and climate change, we still have entities pushing for coal/ gas. Resisting clean renewable energy. Today! Etc etc etc.
And all of this is in our lifetimes. We can go back further and talk about the Philipines, pretty much all of South America, Vietnam, Hawaii, toppling governments/ internecine actions in Africa, Asia, South America, the pacific, Japanese internment in WW2, etc etc etc.

America was never great.

I really do suggest everyone read Howard Zinn's "A Peoples History Of The United States."

[FaultyMario]

I've given this some thought since neanderthal posted the original question. July 4, 1776? December 15, 1791? The Louisiana Purchase? The summer of 1918 in Western Europe? The Berlin Airlift? That week or two after September 11, 2001 when everyone seemed united?

One possible answer that I haven't ruled out yet: July 16, 1969 - July 24, 1969 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11).

I know it's a terrible thing to answer a question with another question. But I'd go back to a previous topic (https://openlibrary.org/books/OL4113437M/The_nine_nations_of_North_America) on this same thread, and ask back... Which of the nine nations of America are you referring to when you say great?

[neanderthal]

I will say with much confidence that if it were ever great it was long before Twitter.

And that "greatness" will always beg the question "who was it great for?"

[FaultyMario]

And with that in my mind, I think that rural America was fundamental to the economic impulse needed for the industrialization of the whole United States, but it is certainly not its best element nowadays, the founding fathers were from slave-owning agricultural elites, so in that time frame, the rural push was a great thing for society.

The problem with Trumpism is that by not acknowledging the fact that the United States *has always been* a multicultural and multiethnic society, and by giving an unjustified importance to an idealized version of "the good old days" of white protestantism, he undermines the very essence of America's greatness, its diversity.

[George]

I really do suggest everyone read Howard Zinn's "A Peoples History Of The United States."

I just placed a hold at the library for the audiobook "A People's History Of The United States Highlights From The Twentieth Century" - which may be an abridged version of the original or a supplementary edition. I may check other libraries in surrounding counties for the original but I don't have those library cards with me at the moment to log into their websites. There are four holds ahead of me, so it may be a while before I get my hands on it.


I know it's a terrible thing to answer a question with another question. But I'd go back to a previous topic (https://openlibrary.org/books/OL4113437M/The_nine_nations_of_North_America) on this same thread, and ask back... Which of the nine nations of America are you referring to when you say great?

Well, I was thinking more of its significance for humankind, rather than this group vs. that group.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The problem with Trumpism is that by not acknowledging the fact that the United States *has always been* a multicultural and multiethnic society, and by giving an unjustified importance to an idealized version of "the good old days" of white protestantism, he undermines the very essence of America's greatness, its diversity.

Can’t disagree with that.

Still, the main fuel for trumpism is probably because that white men today are now under more attack than ever before.

Personally I prefer Dr. king’s or Rosa park’s version of the civil rights movement... fighting for your rights without putting anyone down. Not asking to take away from white men to give away to black men..., but simply asking for equal opportunity to be able to stand where white people could stand.

Average white men are also taking a toll financially with mounting job losses. Until we address that, trump just might be able to misdirected blames on illegal immigrants for 4 more years... Hitler was able to take advantage of Germany's economic hit too.

Best way to defeat Hitler probably wasn't thru bullets and missiles, but by helping regular German citizens to get back on their feet rather than sanctioning them for their earlier misdeeds.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, I was thinking more of its significance for humankind, rather than this group vs. that group.

Yes.

Of course black slaves and Indians will think America sucks. Of course patriotic white nationalist will think USA is the fucking greatest thing since sliced bread.

That’s why I mentioned that we need to put some distance between us and the US when answering this question. From an outsider’s perspective without any personal agenda.

Are human beings better because of the existence of this nation or worse off? If USA isn’t that great, what are other greater nations out there? Or we just can’t ever make a decision because it’s just too politically incorrect that it’s just easier to say that we all just suck? Okay, maybe I’m going off of my MO again... we’re all just grey... nobody sucks nobody great!?

[neanderthal]

Can’t disagree with that.

Still, the main fuel for trumpism is probably because that white men today are now under more attack more than ever before.

Personally I prefer Dr. king’s or Rosa park’s version of the civil rights movement... fighting for your rights without putting anyone down.

Average white men are also taking a toll financially with mounting job losses. Until we address that, trump just might be able to misdirected blames on illegal immigrants for 4 more years...

You, AGAIN, with this shit. Who, WHO is attacking white men? Who? Is it an individual? Is it a group? Is it a country? Is it an alien invading force? Is it a human? An animal? A thing?

No one is attacking white men.

What is happening is that white supremacy and patriarchy are being called out, anywhere and everywhere, and the conservatives have decided that being asked to consider the agency of others before you ... hug them is an "attack" on white men. Literally, their response to the "me too" movement was that it was an attack on men. (Especially when Kavanaugh was being vetted.) Yet Me Too was raising awareness of scummy behaviour, most often by men, and not always men in positions of power, towards women. That's not an attack on men.


"When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." Can't be bothered to find out who said it. It's 2019; google is free. Google for yourself if you want to know.


"Average white men are taking a toll financially with mounting job losses."

The fuck is that supposed to even mean? It's ok when other groups take a financial toll and lose their jobs? (But it's not when it happens to white men?) Because that's what has ALWAYS happened in the past. Minorities and the lower economic classes always felt the brunt of any depression/ recession. And a lot of minorities are in the lower economic classes.
Who got left behind in the last recession. All the people from all those factories and plants that got closed. All the people who's mortgage skyrocketed. (Many many black people who qualified for conventional home loans were given variable ones instead. That didn't happen so much with whites, all else being equal.) Etc.

You're an aero engineer, so you're supposed to be smart, but honestly, judging strictly from what you post you're dumb as fuck.

[neanderthal]

https://jezebel.com/the-lie-of-metoo-going-too-far-1837370047

[Crazed_Insanity]

There are certainly a lot of privileged white men, but certainly not all white men are privileged, right?

In this day and age, any minority group can have pride, except for white folks, right?

I do have my issues with the Me Too movement. Bring awareness is great. Appalling behaviors definitely need to be stopped, but often times I began to feel such movement is going out of control. Like I said earlier, if we found out Einstein sexually harassed his assistant, sizeable liberal population just might stop believing E=MC^2.... or at least find theory of relativity repulsive and start boycotting it.

As for economic losses, no group enjoys that. When such security is threatened, people do tend to behave more irrationally. Not excusing Trump supporters for their 'stupid' decisions, but it is the human thing to do that when shit hits the fan, you like to find somebody else to blame 1st. Illegal immigrants are easy targets.

Clearly building a wall is not going to bring their coal mine, steel, manufacturing jobs back.

[MR2 Fan]

You, AGAIN, with this shit. Who, WHO is attacking white men? Who? Is it an individual? Is it a group? Is it a country? Is it an alien invading force? Is it a human? An animal? A thing?

No one is attacking white men.

What is happening is that white supremacy and patriarchy are being called out, anywhere and everywhere, and the conservatives have decided that being asked to consider the agency of others before you ... hug them is an "attack" on white men. Literally, their response to the "me too" movement was that it was an attack on men. (Especially when Kavanaugh was being vetted.) Yet Me Too was raising awareness of scummy behaviour, most often by men, and not always men in positions of power, towards women. That's not an attack on men.


"When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." Can't be bothered to find out who said it. It's 2019; google is free. Google for yourself if you want to know.

The fuck is that supposed to even mean? It's ok when other groups take a financial toll and lose their jobs? (But it's not when it happens to white men?) Because that's what has ALWAYS happened in the past. Minorities and the lower economic classes always felt the brunt of any depression/ recession. And a lot of minorities are in the lower economic classes.
Who got left behind in the last recession. All the people from all those factories and plants that got closed. All the people who's mortgage skyrocketed. (Many many black people who qualified for conventional home loans were given variable ones instead. That didn't happen so much with whites, all else being equal.) Etc.

You're an aero engineer, so you're supposed to be smart, but honestly, judging strictly from what you post you're dumb as fuck.


white men aren't being attacked. The problem is they're feeling the economic downturn and instead of blaming politicians and large corporations who aren't helping the problem, they're being told by media outlets that there's an immigrant invasion that are taking their jobs, or lower income minorities mooching off of government handouts....whatever makes them blame brown people instead of who's really at fault.

[JoshInKC]

There are certainly a lot of privileged white men, but certainly not all white men are privileged, right?
Yeah, we white men are all privileged in the US. It might not always be obvious, and there are situations in which that privilege might be reduced, but it never goes away.
That's how the system is designed to work.

[FaultyMario]

I prefer [...] Rosa park’s version of the civil rights movement... fighting for your rights without putting anyone down.

:twitch: :twitch:


“I wanted to see [grandfather] kill a Ku-Kluxer” (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/artifacts-show-a-rosa-parks-steeped-in-freedom-struggle-from-childhood/2015/02/02/90ee01f4-a7de-11e4-a7c2-03d37af98440_story.html)

The love of her life was a Scottsboro Boy, (https://rosaparksbiography.org/interactive-timeline/) FFS!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Imho, our systems only rigged now for rich people. Don’t matter color of your skin as much.

We don’t have dark skin slaves anymore... just poor slave-like workers or poor sex slaves that you don’t usually hear about.

To still believe white men are screwing us is kinda outdated. Right now we’re being screwed by rich people.

[FaultyMario]

Imho, our systems only rigged now for rich people. Don’t matter color of your skin as much.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM7lw0Ovzq0

[Crazed_Insanity]

:twitch: :twitch:


“I wanted to see [grandfather] kill a Ku-Kluxer” (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/artifacts-show-a-rosa-parks-steeped-in-freedom-struggle-from-childhood/2015/02/02/90ee01f4-a7de-11e4-a7c2-03d37af98440_story.html)

The love of her life was a Scottsboro Boy, (https://rosaparksbiography.org/interactive-timeline/) FFS!

I’m referring to her most famous bus incident. Something she actually did courageously for herself and for all black people. It’s her one small step for self and giant leap for black folks moment.

If she fantasized about grand daddy killing all KKK, can you really blame her? You gonna judge people’s thoughts?

Anyway, you really think she’s a terrorist and should be condemned? Why twitch you emoji eyes like that when I mentioned Rosa park?

[FaultyMario]

So she's either this seamstress who never puts anyone down or she's a terrorist. Gotcha!

[Tom Servo]

And that's why I stopped responding. Though I did realize there's a better term for his move, it's "false dichotomy". And it's his *only move*. If you point out that there are other options, the immediate response you'll get is "Can you just answer my question?" I'm debating coming up with logical fallacy red cards.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Can you at least explain the meaning of your twitching?

We all have different annoying MOs, okay?

I like Rosa Parks! Twitching... you know she wanted grand daddy to kill kkk?

America fought Nazis!
You know Americans don’t even recognize black officers?

Hey why am I only given 2 options?
Because we want to be annoying like you.

America landed on the moon!
So what? Don’t you know Americans slaughtered Africans and Indians and Muslims?

Yeah, half the people here are ignoring me, but also don’t forget, half of gtxfers left the board too. I think most right leaning folks tend to just shut up or leave. I don’t even consider myself right leaning, just lean differently from most of you. Yeah, maybe you think the board is probably better off without those deplorables?

Personally I think the board was greater when we had more diversity and less political fighting.

I still think it is this kind of stupidity that caused America and this board no longer as great as before...

Not just blaming you guys, but I’m blaming everyone now, including myself... sigh...

You guys win the discussion.

I’ll leave the political thread to you guys for now. Should also help lower Neanderthal’s blood pressure. ;)

[neanderthal]

Hillary was going to be worse. :rolleyes:

This one is a very good one.


https://youtu.be/dcGT848vJDY

[MR2 Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM7lw0Ovzq0

one of his most important songs ever

[Rare White Ape]

Oh, and, again, when was America great?

Back when it was flying high and ignoring its own problems.

Lucky for Americans, those days are upon us again!

[Tom Servo]

Huh. Reading between the lines, is his proposal to just not give a shit about fuel efficiency?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECf28c1U8AAskZb?format=png&name=small

[The359]

I'm not sure how emissions restrictions make the cars less safe... :?

[Tom Servo]

Interesting article on "The Epoch Times", a longtime news site that recently has thrown its support behind Trump, spending over $1.5 million on pro-Trump Facebook advertising (more than the amount many candidates have raised in total) and ranked 11th in video views across social media platforms. Turns out they're part of Falun Gong and part of the same organization that brings us Shen Yun.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121

[Tom Servo]

I'm not sure how emissions restrictions make the cars less safe... :?

My guess is that as far as he's concerned, hybrid/electric technologies are dark magic just waiting to kill you.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting article on "The Epoch Times", a longtime news site that recently has thrown its support behind Trump, spending over $1.5 million on pro-Trump Facebook advertising (more than the amount many candidates have raised in total) and ranked 11th in video views across social media platforms. Turns out they're part of Falun Gong and part of the same organization that brings us Shen Yun.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121

Hmm..., interesting indeed. Okay, not here to debate anything just to leave my 2 cents.

Never paid much attention to Epoch Times actually. I am sympathetic to persecution of Falun Gong folks in China, but I personally never really liked them though. They feel like the equivalent of JW's witnesses or Scientologists here. They just felt weird to me with the few of them I've interacted with. Anyway, I think they're making the mistake of making friend with the enemy of their enemy. Trump standing up to dictator Xi just looks so heroic to them. Ever since Nixon, I don't think any other US presidents dared to stand up to the Chinese Communists as much as Trump... to the point of willing to sacrifice the prosperity of Americans! Or perhaps Trump just has the special magnetism to attract spiritual crazies, including the US evangelicals.

Anyway, considering Chinese American voting block is probably very small and nobody else is reading the Epoch Times, probably not much to worry about.

BTW, the only Chinese presidential candidate is clearly against Trump. I think he's climbing up higher on my personal list... claiming that he likes MATH and he's going to Make America Think Harder if he's elected! :D

[21Kid]

You're assuming that he actually thinks about what he's saying.

He just talks out his ass 99% of the time, and doubles down when someone challenges him on it.

The media really needs to stop passing his comments along on their own.

[George]

^ I've thought that since January 20, 2016 - "Maybe now, he'll start acting like a president."

He'd be a much better president if he'd just shut the hell up.

[neanderthal]

^ I've thought that since January 20, 2016 - "Maybe now, he'll start acting like a president."

He'd be a much better president if he'd just shut the hell up. get called out on his shit every time he opens his mouth.


Corrected that for you since he's unlikely to shut up.

[MR2 Fan]

Jay Inslee has dropped out of the Democratic race...that makes 3 that have dropped out so far

[Tom Servo]

Little sad about that. I don't think he was going to get the nomination, but he was an important voice about climate change and getting rid of the filibuster (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/opinion/harry-reid-filibuster.html?module=inline).

[mk]

Is it possible that Trump's flooding has always been a strategy?

[MR2 Fan]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders gets a job at Fox News, in case ANYONE really thought it wouldn't happen. Absolutely disgusting. She shamelessly lied every time she gave a press conference. I know a lot of people don't like Sean Spicer and want to boycott Dancing with the Stars, and I'm totally with that, however I always got the feeling he was just following orders. That doesn't make him a good person, but I do feel like he got railroaded.

OTOH, Sarah seems to relish the absolutely insane shit she said.

[Tom Servo]

Got some context on his weird tweet about the "politically correct" auto companies. I guess California has a voluntary efficiency standard that's less strict than it had but more strict than what the federal government wants to put in place. Honda, Volkswagen, BMW, and Ford have all agreed to the standard, and from what I gather essentially every automaker has come out against the federal government's standard.

No idea where he's getting the idea that greater fuel efficiency is a safety sacrifice, but at least now we know why he's getting all mad at Ford and, to a lesser extent, GM.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders gets a job at Fox News, in case ANYONE really thought it wouldn't happen. Absolutely disgusting. She shamelessly lied every time she gave a press conference. I know a lot of people don't like Sean Spicer and want to boycott Dancing with the Stars, and I'm totally with that, however I always got the feeling he was just following orders. That doesn't make him a good person, but I do feel like he got railroaded.

OTOH, Sarah seems to relish the absolutely insane shit she said.

That's great news! Congratulations to her! If it all works out well, hopefully FOX news will also sign ex-president Trump come 2021 to be part of the same team! We all should be happy about that! :D

[MR2 Fan]

why wait? Trump should start tomorrow....he's so enamored with Fox News, he can resign and do that instead!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, I'm hoping for the reason that she switched job is because she's trying to jump off of a sinking ship.

The captain perhaps hadn't realize that the ship is sinking or perhaps just waiting until the last moment when it's completely submerged... Otherwise he probably would've signed on too.

The scary part is that dems might not be able to nominate a person to defeat this sinking ship. Very anxious to see how the next debate will turn out... ideally, we want the American voters to sink that Trump ship.

[Tom Servo]

NY Daily News is having a good time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECi3ha_WsAIaHEO?format=jpg&name=large

[neanderthal]

Anyway, I'm hoping for the reason that she switched job is because she's trying to jump off of a sinking ship.

The captain perhaps hadn't realize that the ship is sinking or perhaps just waiting until the last moment when it's completely submerged... Otherwise he probably would've signed on too.

The scary part is that dems might not be able to nominate a person to defeat this sinking ship. Very anxious to see how the next debate will turn out... ideally, we want the American voters to sink that Trump ship.


"we want the American voters to sink that Trump ship..." :erm: :smh: :twitch:

Remind us again who you voted for last time around. If I recall correctly, and I could be wrong, (i'm getting senile in my dotage, and I did have a serious concussion 6 months ago,) you and your ilk didn't vote for the candidate who could have beaten Trump in the electoral race. Something something worse than Trump, something something Benghazi, something something can't be trusted, something war monger, her emails something something. :?

Like I said, my mind is a little fuzzy

[Crazed_Insanity]

Like I said, I ain’t gonna debate here no mo’ Mo.

Let’s try to look forward and hopefully we can send the Republicans our thoughts and prayers along with none of our votes.

[Dicknose]

Come on - no talk about buying Greenland and then the snub of Denmark??
I thought that was a new high in diplomatic relations.
Maybe he should of started by offering a swap of Greenland for Montana.

[Tom Servo]

I think that thing was both so on-brand with Trump and so dopey that it just almost wasn't worth mentioning.

[MR2 Fan]

Come on - no talk about buying Greenland and then the snub of Denmark??
I thought that was a new high in diplomatic relations.
Maybe he should of started by offering a swap of Greenland for Montana.

He wants to swap Greenland for Puerto Rico....to swap brown people for white people of course

[MR2 Fan]

I don't like to say anything is good news when someone dies, but one of the Koch brothers just did, and that can only be a good thing. One less right-wing oligarch to worry about

[Tom Servo]

I was going to say that I hope that it doesn't cause his brother to lash out in uncontrolled grief, making things worse, but then I remembered you have to have a soul to grieve.

[FaultyMario]

:lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

All the money in the world cannot buy life, liberty, and happiness.

At least the guy also did donate to worthy causes.

[MR2 Fan]

All the money in the world cannot buy life, liberty, and happiness.

At least the guy also did donate to worthy causes.


Shut up billi

[Crazed_Insanity]

I hit a nerve with that comment too? Hmm... Okay I’ll stay out of this thread then. Sorry about the offensive comment.

[MR2 Fan]

You can't let a monster like him off the hook because he spent a few dollars for "philanthropy" as an excuse, that leads to a dangerous precedent

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mr2, I hope you understand that I actually do share your frustration about the guy. I don’t like him either.

[MR2 Fan]

another Dem drops out of running today...didn't even know him: Seth Moulton

[MR2 Fan]

I can't wait for Trump to leave office, in whatever capacity that happens...not only because it will be good for the world but also I want to see all of the tell-all books from his former staffers about what REALLY happened in the white house.

[Freude am Fahren]

He wants to swap Greenland for Puerto Rico....to swap brown people for white people of course

Shh, don't tell him

:lol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Greenland#Ethnic_groups

[Tom Servo]

/r/ThatHappened

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC1R8r0UUAElsDv?format=png&name=small

[FaultyMario]

Mr. Trump was absent from the G7 round on climate change.

That is the "make America great again" style of world leadership.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC6B287XoAAnI1k.jpg

[mk]

They say that for some democrats beating Trump is not a priority.

If so then what is?

[neanderthal]

They say that for some democrats beating Trump is not a priority.

If so then what is?

Taking the senate back, for one.

But I'm always fascinated by this type of question. Republicans are going hand in hand with Trump but people want to know what Democrats are doing?
You see so little criticism of the GOP for their acquiescence, literally the only place you see/ hear it is from liberal podcasts, but no one else ever seems to find fault with the Republicans.

It's crazy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

They say that for some democrats beating Trump is not a priority.

If so then what is?

Who are ‘they’ and who are the ‘some democrats’?

I’m not a democrat, I don’t quite understand how can winning back the White House not a priority.

Can you share a link about what you read?

[Tom Servo]

Well, Twitter suspended the bot that retweets Trump's tweets as White House press statements (the author has no idea why, and no reason appears to have been given). I really don't feel like adding to Trump's follower count as I know he gets off on that and ewwww, so I guess now I'll miss some of the hilarity of his dumber but less noteworthy tweets.

[mk]

You see so little criticism of the GOP for their acquiescence, literally the only place you see/ hear it is from liberal podcasts, but no one else ever seems to find fault with the Republicans.

I see GOP as crooks exploiting uneducated dumbs.
And their goal is clearly to cut down their part of general expenses.
They do as expected.

[Tom Servo]

Per a recent conversation.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDANCjJXkAAOSjO?format=jpg&name=900x900

[FaultyMario]

I think the brits have got the better clown show on right now.

[MR2 Fan]

yeah, can someone explain the advantages of doing a no-deal Brexit? It seems like a losing situation all around.

[drew]

Kinda seems like the political/economical equivalent of putting your dick in a garbage disposal while shoving a cactus up your ass.

[FaultyMario]

Kinda seems like the political/economical equivalent of putting your dick in a garbage disposal while shoving a cactus up your ass.

Seems legit.

[MR2 Fan]

....to own the EU

[JoshInKC]

The UK gov't right now:
3355

[Dicknose]

yeah, can someone explain the advantages of doing a no-deal Brexit? It seems like a losing situation all around.

So the exit can happen ...

I guess the most important part is that it keeps their right to control their borders for immigration and work. That was probably the biggest driver behind brexit.
Any deals seemed to involve swapping bits of this for other gains. And the deals looked like taking forever - especially when its a deal that needs to be worked out with the EU, then taken back to the UK govt to pass.

So yeah the "no deal" is more of a "screw it, Im out of here" even if its not the best. But they get to claim they did what the people wanted (even if they didnt really know what they wanted!)

[FaultyMario]

I think Lil Donny's excited about the thunderstorm.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDLfFjFWkAEvq51.png

[Crazed_Insanity]

What do you guys think about this guy who's attempting to buy votes by paying americans $1k/month?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evP21V0OoPQ

[FaultyMario]

How serious are you about discussing UBI and the welfare network?

[Crazed_Insanity]

You know I'm always serious to discuss anything..., but no, I'm not discussing anything here anymore. Found it to be incredibly counter-productive and will only end up with Billi Bashing... :p

So I'm just wondering what you guys think that's all.

[Freude am Fahren]

I have absolutely not idea if that Trump quote is real or parody. Like seriously, WTF?

[FaultyMario]

That's a transcript AFAIK.

Edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtcfo15rBgo

[Rare White Ape]

Straight pride parade in Boston, featuring three fat dudes and a Santa Claus.

Click for clip of the press conference. Listen to that doozy of a question from the “press” in attendance :D

https://twitter.com/Brian_Riccio/status/1167853119662899201

[MR2 Fan]

I'm no expert on the UK situation, but apparently one of the members switched parties DURING the PM's speech today so the conservatives would no longer have the majority....incredible

[FaultyMario]

Corbyn just quoted a trade union who called NoDealBrexit "The height of economic lunacy" on the floor of parliament.

Told ya, it's popcorn time in UK telly!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/03/commons-showdown-looms-in-battle-over-no-deal-brexit-live

[Tom Servo]

I thought just the other day Johnson got the queen to agree to suspend parliament, so I'm confused how parliament is involved again. I totally do not understand the system there, but did I miss a step or something?

[MR2 Fan]

I think that was after a few days....they could negotiate prior to that or something

[Tom Servo]

Ahh, okay. That makes more sense, thanks!

[FaultyMario]

If you’ve lost track of Brexit’s seemingly endless “cliff edges”, now is the time to pay attention as three years of argument appears set to come to a head.

What is happening in Britain?
The government, led by prime minister and arch-Brexiter Boris Johnson, has been granted permission by the Queen to suspend – or prorogue – parliament for a crucial five-week period before 31 October, when Britain is due to leave the European Union. The move leaves much less time for parliament and MPs to stop a no-deal Brexit.

Continue reading at The Guardian. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/29/prorogation-explainer-a-simple-guide-to-what-just-happened-in-uk-politics)

[Freude am Fahren]

What a fucking ego on this cunt.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/s1dsvaxgyprfyxcwcqax.png

[Tom Servo]

It is amazing that he just literally cannot ever admit that he's wrong, and will go through embarrassing episodes just to try to prove that he isn't.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think it's obvious Dorian is not a republican nor a trump supporter because Dorian is purposefully making Trump look bad. It's pretty obvious that Dorian is the amazing one, not president Trump.

Hurricanes really shouldn't be part of the political debate people!

Anyway, hope the Alabamans are prepared for the next election cycle. Or if they prefer fake news/warnings from the White House, more power to them. Better safe than sorry I guess.

BTW, regardless of whether if Trump is really an ardent egotistical conservative or a good actor pretending to be a conservative or perhaps just suffering early signs of dementia...

I do believe our government officials are seriously too old. Even with some younger congress persons coming in... average age of our politicians are at an all time high!!! That's got to be problematic regardless of party affiliation.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/03/america-gerontocracy-problem-politics-old-politicians-trump-biden-sanders-227986

[neanderthal]

It is amazing that he just literally cannot ever admit that he's wrong, and will go through embarrassing episodes just to try to prove that he isn't.

What's that say about those who support him? :smh: Or don't support him but prefer him to "any Democrat?" :rolleyes:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Of course voters are not going to take any shit from opposing party’s candidate, but Its just sad that at this point, voters don’t mind eating shit from their own party’s candidate...

[Tom Servo]

Man, that petty bitch is still tweeting about it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDtHdi5VUAAdMB2?format=png&name=small

[FaultyMario]

Someone more talented than me ought to upload a new video version of "Gee, officer Krupke!" but singing "President Sharpie" instead.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, Twitter suspended the bot that retweets Trump's tweets as White House press statements (the author has no idea why, and no reason appears to have been given). I really don't feel like adding to Trump's follower count as I know he gets off on that and ewwww, so I guess now I'll miss some of the hilarity of his dumber but less noteworthy tweets.

I thought Twitter suspended those retweets? They unsuspended them now?

Anyway, I have no clue how in the world can trump blame the fake news media while he himself is the one spreading fake news... I'm sure Alabamans are not that stupid.

I've seen some old video clips of young Trump on Oprah or something..., the guy seemed like a reasonable guy, but obviously things have changed. Either he is now too senile or perhaps just too powerful. Power tend to corrupt people's brain too. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/power-causes-brain-damage/528711/

Besides Trump, Washington is full of old powerful folks who probably couldn't care less about ordinary citizens. Was Trump really concerned with Alabamans? No. He just wanted to be right.

Makes me a little bit apprehensive about Bernie Sanders' age too... :p If it's any consolation for Neanderthal, I most likely won't be voting for Sanders during the primary this time...

We need to bring down the average... or median age of our politicians. These rich old guys should just be allowed to comfortably retire. Lots of seniors in our nation would love to retire but couldn't afford it. These old geezers could comfortably retire but still wants to power grab. Besides term limits, maybe we also need age limits.

If you're above 70, be a wise political advisor, but please voluntarily leave the office please. Likewise for the supreme court justices... but of course, no way these Gollums would voluntarily give up the ring.

[Tom Servo]

Re: Twitter suspending the bot, the bot is still suspended. However, the guy figured out that another bot that imports messages from Mastodon into Twitter is not suspended, and his bot can still run on Mastodon, so now it's just importing the messages from another site instead of generating them on Twitter's own platform.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ah, how resourceful! :D

[FaultyMario]

Trump doesn't adhere to honor systems, he exploits them. (https://www.npr.org/2019/09/05/757867502/from-mar-a-lago-to-trump-hotels-reporter-says-trump-profits-as-president)

[MR2 Fan]

Of the multitude of "jump the shark" moments of the Trump presidency, the hurricane map is definitely one of the most visible and obvious. The pettiness of it is truly extraordinary.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think I'm slowly beginning to understand what Trump was defending... back when the forecast was about Dorian directly running over Florida, I guess he was probably concerned that Alabama might be hit as well? But of course forecast changed... or Dorian's path changed... so the original forecast isn't right anymore. Now the 'fake news media' is making a HUGE deal about him being wrong... :rolleyes:

If only you could just let it go earlier on, the 'deal' would never become as big Mr. President!!! :lol:

Anyway, amazing comedic gold. I also freaking loved all the meme retweets that came out of this incident:https://www.buzzfeed.com/jonmichaelpoff/trump-hurricane-dorian-map-sharpie-meme

[MR2 Fan]

He said in a tweet specifically that Alabama was in danger which wasn't ever true. now he's backpedaling ever since to prove he wasn't wrong because it's impossible for him to be wrong.

Edit: the thing that most normal people would do, would be to reply with a follow-up explaining that you got mixed up and were incorrect, but I don't think he's ever done that once in his life

[Freude am Fahren]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDs13jwXYAEsaTa?format=jpg&name=small

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, there was one point back on like August 29th where there was something like a 5-10% chance that one corner of one county in Alabama could get tropical storm force winds, but that was before Dorian took its northward turn and by September 1st it was clear that it was not going to get anywhere near Alabama. September 1st is when he said that they just found out that Alabama is in danger, which was incorrect. If he is referring to the few-days-old information as his "see, I was right!", he's basically admitting that he didn't pay a single bit of attention to the looming disaster from Dorian while he golfed that weekend, which isn't exactly better.

What's interesting is that in a conversation I was having with a Trump supporter maybe a year or so ago, there was an insistence that liberals were trying to make hurricanes sound more scary than they were in order to try to make people afraid of/believe in climate change, and now Trump himself is insisting that people that were not in danger of a hurricane actually were and trying to contradict the NWS who, presumably, issued the statement to keep people from suddenly panicking.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, I think it’s probably better to just laugh it off guys. What the hell else could we do?

2020 is just around the corner.

This was my favorite meme in the bunch too! :D

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDs13jwXYAEsaTa?format=jpg&name=small

[Tom Servo]

Turns out he didn't make Melania walk in the rain either, stupid fake news.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDvwyr7X4AERsDn?format=jpg&name=medium

[FaultyMario]

Too hot for that fatass.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

[Tom Servo]

Just when you thought the NOAA was safe: https://www.npr.org/2019/09/06/758532041/noaa-contradicts-weather-service-backs-trump-on-hurricane-threat-in-alabama?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=facebook.com

[drew]

Yeah. So disturbingly sad. SAD

[Crazed_Insanity]

Apparently we have trump supporters working in these agencies too?

Anyway, probably should’ve just called his forecast ‘outdated’ rather than wrong. That way it’d be indisputable. Calling him wrong inevitably caused a shit storm.

[Tom Servo]

Well, he does appoint the head of these agencies. Interestingly enough, the NOAA statement was unsigned, so who knows who wrote it - even if it came from anybody in the NOAA itself.

I realize on one hand that this is really not that important. The worst case scenario is causing a panic amongst people in Alabama who weren't in any danger, which at most would likely result in really bad traffic jams as people try to leave, and shortages of things like gas and water that would all alleviate themselves pretty quickly since none of the infrastructure to fix it would have been damaged due to the lack of any actual danger of damage. On the other hand, this is such an easily digestible microcosm of what makes him so dangerous. He's so absolutely unwilling to even admit he might be wrong that he can't even muster up a "I misunderstood and the people of Alabama should not be alarmed or worried about danger from a hurricane." Instead, he's willing to cajole his appointees in organizations to literally throw their own people under the bus to prop up what is clearly bullshit. He's literally willing to upend our trust in the fucking weather service to avoid admitting he made a trivial, ultimately inconsequential mistake.

Again, this is ultimately not a big deal, but what about something that *is* a big deal? How far would he go then? How much more is he concerned with his own ego than the safety of the American people? What if this was him telling us that North Korea isn't testing nukes when they were literally aiming them at us? What if this is him telling us that China is paying tariffs while our economy teeters all around us? What if it's him covering up evidence of Russia continuing to interfere with our elections because it helps him get elected?

I love laughing at this, but I think this is one of those moments where it's so plain that the only person he cares about is himself that I think we need to keep harping on this. Even people who don't care about foreign policy or economics can understand how incredibly bizarre this is.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Seriously, I think those in the military or intelligence business need to be real careful what they say to trump. Probably not a good idea to ever tell him that he’s wrong because a piece of info he saw was wrong, just need to let him know that piece of info is outdated... and let him change his mind on his own so that he can feel like he’s the super genius that he is...

Once Trump takes something in, it’s now obvious that he just cannot be ‘wrong’. Same with his staffs. If you are not an ‘yes man’, you’ll be fired sooner or later.

Working for that man must be incredibly frustrating. You’ll either quit early or end up in jail.

Hope the American people can see that our very own president is a clear and present danger to not only our nation, but also to the world.

Dems just need to nominate somebody who’s not too closely tied to the democratic establishment in order to win some of those conservatives over.

I can only hope the dems end up nominating the right person this time.

Or I pray that God could receive his soul soon so that we don’t have him around for 4 more years...

[Freude am Fahren]

And he's achieving exactly what he needs (though I doubt he's smart enough to be doing it on purpose). Everyone is going on about a stupid tweet about a hurricane instead of all the actual problems he's causing.

[Leon]

By the day, he appears to be suffering from dramatically escalating early onset dementia.

The lack of removing him from being in charge of anything more complex than an etch-a-sketch is frankly alarming to most of the rest of the world.

[Tom Servo]

It is to us too, and as a long time defender of Nancy Pelosi, I don't know what the fuck she's doing right now.

[FaultyMario]

By the day, he appears to be suffering from dramatically escalating early onset dementia.

Early? Fucker's 73 already!

[Tom Servo]

There's always a tweet...

While @BarackObama
is slashing the military, he is also negotiating with our sworn enemy the Taliban--who facilitated 9/11. (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/157918533655871488)

[Tom Servo]

“No, Donnie shouldn’t have hit you but you shouldn’t have shouted ‘Alabama’ at him and laughed”

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ED30tkTWsAE9B4W?format=jpg&name=small

https://twitter.com/Grumbletwat/status/1170360545993777153

[Crazed_Insanity]

Democracy’s doomed? Trump’s probably not really our main problem..., if this theory is true.

https://apple.news/AOKaeFJ0mQNCttsxT5uuK_g

[George]

https://youtu.be/ICW-dGD1M18

[neanderthal]

https://youtu.be/ICW-dGD1M18

What a great ad. Pity it will be lost in the noise.

I hope she does well.

[Dicknose]

Thats pretty cool... quite a bit of money and effort in making that.

[Cam]

I registered to vote in Canada via mail-in ballot. The previous conservative government made it so I could not do that. The current liberal government made it so I could.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That’s one awesome commercial!

I do hope she wins, but ideally I’d like to have people in the public office to serve the public rather than to settle whatever scores...

[FaultyMario]

Trump once again lies about 9/11:
“I went down to Ground Zero with men who worked for me to try to help in any little way that we could.”

He is LYING. He spent the whole day watching TV and cheating on his wife, the same as always.

:lol:

[George]

Hey babe, after this, let's send out for a few Big Macs.
..