Politics

[drew]

"I had the second-tallest building in Manhattan, now I have the tallest." - some cunt on 9/11/01

[Tom Servo]

A little torn on the John Bolton thing, since on the one hand he's a monster who wanted to get us into war in Iran but on the other hand apparently was the only person telling Trump that maybe becoming buddies with Kim Jong Un and the Taliban isn't a great idea. It's another one of those "Hey, great, a horrible person is ousted, but I can't even imagine the even-more-horrible person they've got teed up". Someone on Twitter suggested it might be the kids who came up with "Bumfights".

[Crazed_Insanity]

It’s like Jurassic park, Trump-rex eats up velociraptors and save the day... for now.

[MR2 Fan]

no commentary needed:

President Trump: "The light bulb. People said what's with the light bulb. I said here's the story, and I looked at it. The bulb that we're being forced to use. Number one, to me, most importantly, the light's no good. I always look orange. And so do you. The light is the worst."

[Crazed_Insanity]

No comments from last night's debate?

[neanderthal]

I really hate the format of the "debates." Anyway, i thought these were the best "performances," in order.

Booker.
Beto.
Castro.
Harris.
Warren.

Bernie, Biden, Yang don't really belong there anymore. Bernie never did; mr i'm only a democrat when i need the party infrastructure for a general election..

Buttiegig and Klobuchar are hanging on by a thread.

[MR2 Fan]

Yang is getting a lot of twitter support, partially because it seems like the mainstream media keeps forgetting to add his name to things like polls and debate schedules, even though he's there. It does seem a bit fishy.

Beyond that, I do like the idea that we need to focus on automation taking away jobs, but not sure if giving everyone $1,000 a month is feasible..I believe that's trillions of dollars a year it adds up to (not sure if he meant for every american?)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m a sucker for outsiders, that used to be Bernie, but he is really too old. Will he really be alive for the next 4-8 yrs? Or mentally fit? I still respect him, but I’d rather have somebody younger. Warren or Mayor Pete should be able to carry on his torch now...

Based on that portion that I saw, I thought Booker had the best performance of them all combining message and body language... he not only just looks presidential, but could stare you down and kick ass!

Still my personal favorite now is Yang. Endorsed by Elon Musk, and yes, universal means all over 18. (Unless you’re already receiving govt benefits. Your unemployment or welfare check won’t be bumped up by another $1k)

Yeah, not so sure about how we can really finance $1k for everyone, Amazon, apple, google, Facebook will have to pay a lot of taxes..., but the idea is a good one... to narrow that gap between rich and poor. Too bad they never give the Asian dude lots of talk time during the debate, but the guy really sounds pretty sharp and has good ideas. Even if he’s not elected, he knows he’s a long shot and shouldn’t last this long, but the fact that he’s gone this far proves that he has started something. Just like Bernie started something 4 years ago...

Going back to the old established way just won’t work anymore. MAGA or MATH? (Make Americans think harder!) Future is in our hands.

[MR2 Fan]

Over 18 is still 3 trillion dollars....a year.

253,000,000 population

1,000 a month =

253,000,000,000

12 months

3,036,000,000,000

[MR2 Fan]

Anyway, there's a few basic things that could really boost the economy IMO.

Increase minimum wage based on COLA (Cost of living adjustment) per region (though this may have to be done by each state/city, that's the tricky part)

Forgive student loan debt. College costs have skyrocketed in the past few decades, unnecessarily as people can't get jobs with those educations anyway.

Substantially increase fees on stock trades to pay for infrastructure, education/teachers etc. The richest people all use the stock market, so let's get some of that money back by charging fees for the trade of stocks.


I would also make very clear if I was a presidential candidate like Beto is doing that there are NO plans to take guns away from people, however handguns and shotguns should be the limit of what is available and there should be high priced buybacks of semi-auto weapons.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Increasing min wage is nice, but that's assuming you don't lose your job due to min wage increase.

Forgiving student loans are nice too, but I'm assuming taxpayers will still end up paying for it, right? That's still a chunk of money. I think that'll cost $2.2 trillion and Bernie would want wall st to pay for that. How though? I'm not so sure. Stock market isn't just a money tree that could be used to finance everything.

Anyway, here's Yang's answer to how he'll pay for this freedom dividend:
https://www.yang2020.com/blog/ubi_faqs/pay-universal-basic-income/

One of the key source of income to finance this would be VAT(value added tax), that's similar to sales tax, but we the consumer pay the sales tax, VAT will be something businesses pay when they do businesses with each other. From raw material to the final product, there'll be taxes every step of the way as value is added. This will make it difficult for businesses to hide profits. Plus, as Andrew mentioned... that in the future, companies may not be hiring workers... and them robots won't be paying the government anymore income taxes.

VAT for sure will make things more expensive... and might end up rendering our $1000 kinda worthless..., but I do believe it is necessary otherwise government tax revenue will just continue to dwindle all the while companies get richer and richer. I don't care too much about UBI, but VAT is absolutely necessary to narrow the gap between the super rich and us common folks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8weVou_jmoI

[FaultyMario]

That rich actress gets 14 days of prison for running a racketeering scheme. White privilege, anyone?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I still think it’s rich privilege. If you evaporate Trillions of wealth on wall st and then rematerialize them into your own bank account and caused a worldwide financial meltdown, you’ll get 0 days of jail time. Don’t matter if you’re republican or democrat, black or white.

Anyway, just my 2cents.

[Leon]

That rich actress gets 14 days of prison for running a racketeering scheme. White privilege, anyone?

Didn't she participate in, rather than run the school admissions thing? I've only skim read the local article.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, and the 14 days seems reasonable. The problem is you've also got people who are getting insanely long terms for lesser infractions. It's not that she should get a harsher sentence, it's that non-rich non-white people tend to get too harsh of sentences.

[Leon]

No arguments from me. It's the same thing here in NZ. Seems like it's definitely a thing to buy down your punishment.

[neanderthal]

Yeah, and the 14 days seems reasonable. The problem is you've also got people who are getting insanely long terms for lesser infractions. It's not that she should get a harsher sentence, it's that non-rich non-white people tend to get too harsh of sentences.

African American lady used her sisters baby sitters address. Kid went to a school in a good/ better district as a result. Sentenced to 12(?) years. I don't remember the specifics, maybe they were living in their car for a lil bit then got a place that wasn't in that school district. Edit; Tanya McDowell. (https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Cops-Bust-Homless-Woman-for-Sending-Child-to-School-120004374.html)

Plenty more stories like this.

Rich white lady gets 14 days.

[neanderthal]

No arguments from me. It's the same thing here in NZ. Seems like it's definitely a thing to buy down your punishment.

We haven't seen how she's "bought down" her punishment. We've seen though, how the system works one way when you're this skin colour, and another if you're not.

[Crazed_Insanity]

African American lady used her sisters baby sitters address. Kid went to a school in a good/ better district as a result. Sentenced to 12(?) years. I don't remember the specifics, maybe they were living in their car for a lil bit then got a place that wasn't in that school district. Edit; Tanya McDowell. (https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Cops-Bust-Homless-Woman-for-Sending-Child-to-School-120004374.html)

Plenty more stories like this.

Rich white lady gets 14 days.

That is fucked up!

Still, I do wonder if you’re a white homeless, would you get better treatment in that district?

And if a rich black celebrity bought her kid to a prestigious college, will she get more days?

Anyway, my point is that racism is probably more difficult to fight against than narrowing the wealth gap. Plus, black Americans have the short end of the financial stick since the beginning. Thats something even Lincoln and Dr King haven’t solved yet...

Something is seriously wrong with a society that locks up a homeless person for trying to send her kid to school.

[MR2 Fan]

African American lady used her sisters baby sitters address. Kid went to a school in a good/ better district as a result. Sentenced to 12(?) years. I don't remember the specifics, maybe they were living in their car for a lil bit then got a place that wasn't in that school district. Edit; Tanya McDowell. (https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Cops-Bust-Homless-Woman-for-Sending-Child-to-School-120004374.html)

Plenty more stories like this.

Rich white lady gets 14 days.

That is very important and definitely needs to be discussed. The problem is that it's also different parts of the country and a different judge/court system. Things like this would be much easier to pinpoint and criticize if it was the same judge in both situations for example.

[neanderthal]

That is fucked up!

Still, I do wonder if you’re a white homeless, would you get better treatment in that district?

And if a rich black celebrity bought her kid to a prestigious college, will she get more days?

Anyway, my point is that racism is probably more difficult to fight against than narrowing the wealth gap. Plus, black Americans have the short end of the financial stick since the beginning. Thats something even Lincoln and Dr King haven’t solved yet...

Something is seriously wrong with a society that locks up a homeless person for trying to send her kid to school.

This post screams "i don't understand institutional racism"

Black kids in kindergarten get more severe punishment for the same infractions. (https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/4/5/17199810/school-discipline-race-racism-gao)

Should I do cocaine/ crack as well? Compare the reaction to the opioid epidermic (treatment) with the crack epidermic (more police, jail, longer sentences.)

Policing= disparity. Arrests= disparity. Prosecuting= disparity. Sentencing= disparity. Parole= disparity. So ask yourself where there might be parity.

And don't conflate racism with bigotry. One (R) has a power structure behind it. The other (B) just means you're a hateful c--t.

[neanderthal]

That is very important and definitely needs to be discussed. The problem is that it's also different parts of the country and a different judge/court system. Things like this would be much easier to pinpoint and criticize if it was the same judge in both situations for example.

The pattern happens all over the country though. In these two instances its separate jurisdictions.

Have you followed the Skylar Richardson (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/09/06/skylar-richardson-cheerleader-accused-killing-baby-said-she-cremated-her/2234073001/) story?

[neanderthal]

Yeah, and the 14 days seems reasonable. The problem is you've also got people who are getting insanely long terms for lesser infractions. It's not that she should get a harsher sentence, it's that non-rich non-white people tend to get too harsh of sentences.

Can't find any better way of putting it really.

[Crazed_Insanity]

[/spoiler]

This post screams "i don't understand institutional racism"

Black kids in kindergarten get more severe punishment for the same infractions. (https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/4/5/17199810/school-discipline-race-racism-gao)

Should I do cocaine/ crack as well? Compare the reaction to the opioid epidermic (treatment) with the crack epidermic (more police, jail, longer sentences.)

Policing= disparity. Arrests= disparity. Prosecuting= disparity. Sentencing= disparity. Parole= disparity. So ask yourself where there might be parity.

And don't conflate racism with bigotry. One (R) has a power structure behind it. The other (B) just means you're a hateful c--t.

I don’t understand a lot of things and I don’t really want to argue, but according to your link, black kids, boys and kids with disabilities are all being punished more, right? Am I understanding those charts correctly?

Are you sure those teachers are all racists, sexists, and disabilityists?

Boys being punished more than girls sounds ‘normal’ to me. Not sure if that’s teachers being sexist.

As for black kids or kids with disabilities, we could conclude racism for black kids, but how about disabled kids?

Clearly people can be cunts, right?

As we narrow the gap between rich and poor, we can reshape the power structure. Best way to fight racism is to help black people make more money by taking away some money from white people.... or just narrow the wealth gap without looking at race. That should be enough to help alleviate racism.

As for bigotry, people will have dicks and cunts, we just have to learn to use it wisely.

[neanderthal]

:facepalm

Yes.

Its 2019 dude. Google is free! (https://perception.org/research/implicit-bias/)

Being "racist" to someone disabled is called ableism. The California ban on straws? Noble in intent but ableist. How does someone who drives their wheel chair with their chin drink without a straw?

[Crazed_Insanity]

CA law is stupid, but it wasn’t really a complete ban. Just ask, you can still receive. Handicapped folks can still use their own straws or ask for straws. To claim this stupid law to be ‘ableist’ is even stupider imho. Anyway, thanks for the vocabulary lesson. However, do you really believe teachers are ableists? Likewise sexists too? Exceptionally harsh to boys?

Back to topic, according to your link, implicit bias is kinda like reflexive response. Ask people to change would be like asking people in stressful situations to stop their fight or flight response and just calm down and be mindful. Sounds good in theory, but is it realistic?

Look, I’m not denying the existence of racism. I’m just saying we can’t count on people to be able to deny their implicit bias. You also can’t count on setting black people free and giving them right to vote and other civil liberties. We’ve elected a democratic black president and racism hasn’t improved much.

I really believe one of the most concrete step we can do to fight racism is to help to poor to be able to have more decent lives. That is something we can do.., whereas altering people’s brains to minimize their implicit bias will be much much harder.

My theory is that if a child is living in a more financially secured environment, he/she will probably cause less trouble at school. Handicapped children may have a good environment back home, but surely their physical condition could be a source of frustration that might cause certain socially unacceptable outbursts? Which resulted in suspensions?

Anyway, again, just want to be clear that I’m not denying racism, but I do believe narrowing the wealth gap is probably one of the best way to fight against it.

[neanderthal]

Did you bother to Google before you typed that tripe?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/10/white-high-school-dropouts-are-wealthier-than-black-and-hispanic-college-graduates-can-a-new-policy-tool-fix-that/?noredirect=on

https://www.demos.org/research/racial-wealth-gap-why-policy-matters

I'm at a bar watching the Steelers game and I can find this information in two minutes. Do fucking better.

[JoeW]

Watching the Steelers game? Do fucking better.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Did you bother to Google before you typed that tripe?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/10/white-high-school-dropouts-are-wealthier-than-black-and-hispanic-college-graduates-can-a-new-policy-tool-fix-that/?noredirect=on

https://www.demos.org/research/racial-wealth-gap-why-policy-matters

I'm at a bar watching the Steelers game and I can find this information in two minutes. Do fucking better.

Internet has vast amount of data, if you believe I’m ignorant or falsely interpreted info that I’ve learned, rather than continue to argue, I’d like to hear how you would propose we minimize racism?

[neanderthal]

Watching the Steelers game? Do fucking better.

You will not deny me my weekly dose of disappointment sir!

[neanderthal]

Internet has vast amount of data,

Yet I was able to get that information at a bar in two minutes, on my phone.


if you believe I’m ignorant or falsely interpreted info that I’ve learned, rather than continue to argue, I’d like to hear how you would propose we minimize racism?

You're not interested in ending/ minimising racism. If you were you'd know that racism is not the same as bigotry. More to the point, if you were you'd listen rather than spout racist shit. And furthermore, if you were you'd do your own fucking research in 2019. When google is still free.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not saying I can’t find stuff in vast amount of data. Just asking how we can draw conclusions based on all that data.

I know how to ask google, I’m asking you for your opinion regarding fight against racism.

[neanderthal]

Here's my opinion on that then; you can do better.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No shit!

You are already operating at maximum efficiency and can’t do any better? You da man! No wonder you don’t want to share your secrets and risk the rest of us copying you? Understood man. I’m just not worthy.

Btw, do you know what kind of -ist are you? Billist, right? ;)

[Tom Servo]

The California ban on straws? Noble in intent but ableist.

I'd argue they actually did this right. As far as I know, straws are available upon request, not banned. I have yet to be at a restaurant in California where you can't get a straw if you just ask for it, and most of the time I'm in Santa Monica.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, Neanderthal, I personally find the following article about racism very agreeable, can you give some sort of comments about it? Since I agree with it... it must be all wrong? ;)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/resilience-bullying/201812/bottom-approach-reducing-racism?amp

[neanderthal]

Anyway, Neanderthal, I personally find the following article about racism very agreeable, can you give some sort of comments about it? Since I agree with it... it must be all wrong? ;)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/resilience-bullying/201812/bottom-approach-reducing-racism?amp

No. I read the title and closed the link.

It's not my job to change the racist. It's the racists job to change the racist.

I, and other black people, am sick and tired of doing the emotional labor for others.
It's not the job of women to stop rape culture from being perpetuated. It's men's work. Just to give a corollary.

[neanderthal]

I'd argue they actually did this right. As far as I know, straws are available upon request, not banned. I have yet to be at a restaurant in California where you can't get a straw if you just ask for it, and most of the time I'm in Santa Monica.

Yeah.

I just wish they would have said paper cartons for milk and water, rather than straw ban. but either way, it's brought awareness of just how much one time use plastic utensils we use daily.

I no longer get a lid and straw if i'm at a fast food restaurant (my Honda dealer in Dallas is quite far from home and I sometimes go to Whataburger when i'm getting my bike serviced. I don't get fast food much, but, my bike was purchased early April with 1 mile, and now has 18XXX miles. I'm there a lot! I purchased a prepaid service contract with them and they're quite happy to do an oil change every 2k miles and a service every 4k miles. Me "OK, i'll see you once a month." They thought I was joking. :lol: I go there because they were the ones who were gullible enough to sell an unlimited milage service warranty for 3 years for $1900. And they're (service dept) open 6 days a week and open late.)

[Crazed_Insanity]

No. I read the title and closed the link.

It's not my job to change the racist. It's the racists job to change the racist.

I, and other black people, am sick and tired of doing the emotional labor for others.
It's not the job of women to stop rape culture from being perpetuated. It's men's work. Just to give a corollary.

I know it’s not your job, it’s not anyone’s job, but it’ll take some work from all of us to overcome racism.

Seriously, it’s a good read.

[JoeW]

I skimmed it for you. In a nutshell it says the victims of racism should not respond with hate or anger. Instead, showing respect and love towards the racists oftentimes brings about profound changes in them.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That’s certainly one take away, but not really the main point Joe! :p

I thought the main point was top down approach just hasn’t been working. People at the top abusing people at the bottom just have no motivation to change... expecting others to change using lawyers/lawmakers just hasn’t been effective and it also might be making things worse! He is using a therapists approach by helping/teaching the victims directly. This bottom up approach might be more effective.

If your child is a victim of bullying, is you the parent or teacher threatening the bullying kid back the only way and the most effective way to help your child?

[neanderthal]

I skimmed it for you. In a nutshell it says the victims of racism should not respond with hate or anger. Instead, showing respect and love towards the racists oftentimes brings about profound changes in them.

And that is the bullshit i was talking about; the victims doing the emotional labor of others. Why shouldn't I get angry? Why can't I get angry? Policing my emotions is just another form of supremacy.

The title and lede said it all. I literally stopped reading right there.
And of course billi thinks that's not quite what it says. And did you notice that he didn't seem open to that interpretation, preferring to hug his version that says "racist won't change so fuck it."

But he's trying to talk to me through the other side of his forked tongue saying "how can we reduce/ eliminate racism?' just a few posts ago. I wasn't foold then, and i'm not fooled when he posts trash think pieces that don't do anything to actually change his world view, but reinforce it.

Off to work. First day since February. I may need alcohol tonight. :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, it’s obvious that we can’t really have honest discussions... because we’re just polar opposites...

Just enjoy your 1st day at work dude!

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://twitter.com/samgilliam_art/status/1129570684475195394?s=20

Is this art?

Your answer could reveal if you’re a trump supporter or not!

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/16/20856316/poll-yougov-painting-ideology-trump

[neanderthal]

Anyway, it’s obvious that we can’t really have honest discussions... because we’re just polar opposites...

Just enjoy your 1st day at work dude!

No. It's obvious that you don't want to learn though you state that's your purpose. Learning requires you being exposed to things you didn't know. And the second you're exposed to something contrary to what you believe you reject it for your preferred dogmas. And frame it (my statements) as dishonest (bold.) Just like people on the hard right. Horse shoe theory describes you perfectly vis a vis the hard right. i'm not googling that for you. Time to put your fingers to work.

You're exactly like the people who tone police black folk on social media rather than confront their racist folks. You expect others to do the emotional labor for you. It's not working, and hasn't been, for years. But here we are, you're still doing it. And you're still claiming you want to learn how to change racism. We ain't fooled.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You only asked me to google. Exactly what new things have you exposed to me which I rejected? Btw, I never rejected googling. You just think that it’s obvious that I don’t know how to google.

Anyway, hope your 1st day went well?

[FaultyMario]

Won't the EPA stepping in on California's vehicle emissions standards cause some constitutional ruckus?

[drew]

At this point, the GOP is just wiping their ass with it anyway. Nothing means shit anymore.

[neanderthal]

Won't the EPA stepping in on California's vehicle emissions standards cause some constitutional ruckus?

When it comes to confederate statues or some such conservatives like to say "states rights, states rights" then keep absofuckinglutely quiet when it comes to the feds trying to dismantle California's emissions laws.


At this point, the GOP is just wiping their ass with it anyway. Nothing means shit anymore.

Pretty much this.

[neanderthal]

You only asked me to google. Exactly what new things have you exposed to me which I rejected? Btw, I never rejected googling. You just think that it’s obvious that I don’t know how to google.

Anyway, hope your 1st day went well?

Again. Not doing the emotional labor for you. You want to learn how we can eliminate racism, i'm not looking that up for you. I'm not going to patiently go over links, materials, videos, etc. Nope. You're going to have to find the writers, speakers, thinkers, intellectuals, books, polls, studies, etc by your self. You're going to have to read and assimilate that info yourself.

But, I know you. You won't. You're not interested in it. You're interested in arguing, despite any evidence offered.

[Crazed_Insanity]

We each have different positions. There can be info found in the sea of google results to support each of our positions. Google’s not going to tell us who’s right who’s wrong.

There are psychologists who would disagree with you and their names are not Billi. Yet, you refuse to even take a look. That psychologist also explained why things hasn’t been working. Why can’t you open up your mind just a little bit?

If something isn’t working, should we double down on it like trump? Or perhaps we should be more open to other approaches?

I thought I have a pretty opened mind, I still don’t know what info you presented to me which I rejected. It’s always been a one sided attacks and never about any meaningful discussions.

When you have the time and energy, read the link I provided and then send me links of evidences or just your explanations of why you think that psychologist is wrong and his approach won’t work. That be a much more meaningful discussion.

If you don’t want to put in the labor to improving racism, I’m pretty sure white supremacist won’t either. I guess it’ll be up to the Asian president who likes MATH to do something about it! ;)

[neanderthal]

I, a black man, am not going to listen to a white man, your psychologist, telling me I should and shouldn't feel what I feel about racists billi. That should tell you the depth of his expertise on the matter.

But yeah, you want me to consider his fucking thoughts on the subject. I'm sure he drew from his lifetime of experiencing racism to reach his conclusions.

In conclusion, fuck his thoughts on the subject, i'll be godamn angry if I feel like it. Tone policing my emotions on racism is racist. That's my conclusion. And it's why I won't even consider anything he has to say.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You certainly have the right to be angry. To not be angry would not be normal... nevertheless, please don’t allow anger to cloud your judgement.

Author is a Jewish man. He doesn’t know what’s it like to be black, but he knows what’s it like to have his race’s lives to not matter. He’s also an expert on anti bullying. However he doesn’t teach bullies on how not be bullies but instead shows kids how not to be bullied.

Seriously, when you’ve cooled down enough and feel like having enough energy level to give a read, try it. Look forward to hearing your comments or even critiques.

For now, just get plenty of rest... we don’t want this to distract you from your work too much! Good nite.

[neanderthal]

You certainly have the right to be angry. To not be angry would not be normal... nevertheless, please don’t allow anger to cloud your judgement.

Author is a Jewish man. He doesn’t know what’s it like to be black, but he knows what’s it like to have his race’s lives to not matter. He’s also an expert on anti bullying. However he doesn’t teach bullies on how not be bullies but instead shows kids how not to be bullied.

Seriously, when you’ve cooled down enough and feel like having enough energy level to give a read, try it. Look forward to hearing your comments or even critiques.

For now, just get plenty of rest... we don’t want this to distract you from your work too much! Good nite.


I still don’t know what info you presented to me which I rejected.

This post is a prime example of me giving you information and you rejecting it.

It's not going to be read, ever; it's conclusions are wrong. The headline and lede tell me all I need to know. But here you are trying to convince me it has merit; because it aligns more with your dogmas. Just like I said.


And the second you're exposed to something contrary to what you believe you reject it for your preferred dogmas.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You are giving me rejection, not new information. I didn’t learn any new information from your recent posts.

My ‘dogma’ is actually both scientifically based and faith based. If you wish to continue to close your mind and refuse to learn, so be it. It’s perfectly fine to agree to disagree.

Have a nice day.

[Tom Servo]

There's a reporter I've been following on Twitter for a while, Daniel Dale. He was with the Toronto Star, recently moved to CNN, and his main beat is covering Trump's "falsehoods". His live tweeting of Trump rallies/speeches are legendary. This was one of his tweets today:



Some subjects of Trump false claims last week:

Iran. Iraq. Afghanistan. China. North Korea. Venezuela. Canada. California. Democrats. Dorian. Wind. Air. An airport. The wall. Polls. Jobs. African Americans. Overdoses. Inflation. Washington Post.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Frankly, I no longer give a damn about Trump's falsehoods.

Can we, or maybe just you guys, discuss which democratic presidential candidate is the most truthiness of all? I know which candidate I like, but just wondering which ones you guys like so that we can conduct our own little GTX poll here.

[Tom Servo]

I still do care, so :P

I like Warren.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I know you’ve always paid very close attention, but after he has gotten away with so many falsehoods and BS... I just couldn’t care anymore. Since he’s seemingly unimpeachable, we’ll have to make sure he’s defeated come 2020.

Anyway, I really think Yang is the new Bernie. Although he probably won’t be the nominee just like Bernie 4yrs ago, but surely his message will continue on. Biden is already starting to sound like him.

[neanderthal]

Frankly, I no longer give a damn about Trump's falsehoods.

We knew that when you proudly voted third party. You didn't care about anything except throwing your little tantrum in the voting booth. You and your ilk. Now we have Trump.

And you don't care. But then again, you never did.

That says a lot.
Kids in cages. Don't care. Didn't care. Supreme Court. Don't care. didn't care. Reproductive rights. Don't care. Didn't care. Puerto Rico. Don't care. Didn't care. Flint. Don't care. Didn't care. I could go on and on and on.

I bet you call yourself a Christian too. :lol: :smh: Nah. You ain't.

Christ preached love and care for the poor, needy, hungry, homeless, etc.

The two parables I remind evangelicals who support Trump apply to you; the parable of the good Samaritan- how you treat the stranger in your land, the kids in cages I mentioned earlier. DACA/ dreamers/ whatever their title is. You didn't care. You still don't.

The parable of the sheep and the goats. Matthew 25; 31- 46. "“Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?’

“The King will answer them, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ Then he will say also to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you didn’t give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; I was a stranger, and you didn’t take me in; naked, and you didn’t clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

“Then they will also answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn’t help you?’

“Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you didn’t do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The sad thing is, (I say this because I know you from years of observing your posts/ actions) rather than reflect on the meaning of these passages and how they apply in modern life, and how they apply in YOUR life, you'll find a way to justify your actions/ words. Introspection is something you lack. In fact i don't think it's something you lack so much as something you are incapable of.

Matt 7; 21- 23. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Christianity is ... grace, shown by a state of mind, and evidenced by actions. Words alone don't cut it. Actions alone don't cut it. Words reflected in actions are the archetype.

Anyway. Most of us care. Most of us did care. Most of us feel the burden of those poor people escaping terror, lawlessness, etc in South America. Making the trek across Mexico to get to our borders to try and gain admittance. Some of us do what we can. Some of us don't. Some care. Some don't.

Cest la vie.

[neanderthal]

Yeah, I know you’ve always paid very close attention, but after he has gotten away with so many falsehoods and BS... I just couldn’t care anymore. Since he’s seemingly unimpeachable, we’ll have to make sure he’s defeated come 2020.

Anyway, I really think Yang is the new Bernie. Although he probably won’t be the nominee just like Bernie 4yrs ago, but surely his message will continue on. Biden is already starting to sound like him.


It's fucking 2019 billi. Google is still free.

Lets say he's impeached by congress. Once he is impeached, it goes to the senate and what happens?

[neanderthal]

[/spoiler]


It's fucking 2019 billi. Google is still free.

Lets say he's impeached by congress. Once he is impeached, it goes to the senate and what happens?

I'll tell you. Nothing happens. The Senate won't do anything. And Trump will remain in office.
Then Trump will turn around and say "they tried to impeach me but as you can see, i'm still here. They tried their impeachment with fake news and information, etc etc etc" and spin it to his hearts content. His base will lap it up, it shows how "untouchable" Trump is. Liberals tried to take him out and failed. Some undecideds will decide that's enough for them and join that cause. And of course the media will trumpet to the skies the failed attempt by the Democrats. Trump will use it to fundraise "the libs are trying to overthrow your fairly elected government" and (if hes smart) he'll share the wealth down ballot, making his grip on power more absolute.

It makes the democrats seem even more powerless and makes them seem more inept.

But go off youngblood, tell us what happens if congress impeaches him

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow. Hope you let off some steam?

Best way to oust this president is by voting in somebody better. You can keep on blaming me or other 3rd party voters if you want. I’ll just continue to blame the DNC for insisting on Hillary and not capitalizing or at least consolidating on sanders momentum.

Hillary wasn’t the better candidate because I’m not sure if she had any real core values. She’s just a more politically correct trump, would say or be whatever voters or lobbyists want. The only dem candidate like that now is probably Harris. Used to be your favorite, is she still is?

The only possible way for dem to lose my vote again is to nominate Harris as their candidate. I think the likelihood of that should be low.

This time around, pretty much every candidate is a type of Bernie Sanders.

Btw, how many times do you really need to remind me google is free? Do you really believe that I don’t know that? Come on dude, come up with better and new insults at least. :p

Lastly, you really need to stop warping twist other people's words and actions. Do you know me? No you don't. You don't even believe I can google. After I googled and found a 'white' psychologist... you can immediately tell by the color of his skin that his words are wrong.

Dude, you are a black/thought supremacist! Anyone who doesn't fit your 'dogma' is just fucking wrong, right?

Why are you afraid to compare 'dogmas' and may the best dogma win?

Let's move the discussion forward dude.

Which candidate do you support and why?

I support Yang. Why? Because I think he has a better plan for everything than Warren. Only draw back is that he lacks political experience, but not sure if that's a bad thing.

Hope you'll be able to respond with why your candidate is better and not just continue to mouth off Yang and Billi and other white people who disagree with you.

Hope we can have meaningful discussions.

[Tom Servo]

I'll tell you. Nothing happens. The Senate won't do anything. And Trump will remain in office.
Then Trump will turn around and say "they tried to impeach me but as you can see, i'm still here. They tried their impeachment with fake news and information, etc etc etc" and spin it to his hearts content. His base will lap it up, it shows how "untouchable" Trump is. Liberals tried to take him out and failed. Some undecideds will decide that's enough for them and join that cause. And of course the media will trumpet to the skies the failed attempt by the Democrats. Trump will use it to fundraise "the libs are trying to overthrow your fairly elected government" and (if hes smart) he'll share the wealth down ballot, making his grip on power more absolute.

It makes the democrats seem even more powerless and makes them seem more inept.

But go off youngblood, tell us what happens if congress impeaches him

I definitely disagree on that one. I mean, yes, the Senate won't do anything and Trump will remain in office. Totally agree with you there.

The thing is, Trump already does all those things. And his base already believes it. In the meantime, impeachment hearings would open up a lot more avenues of investigation and get the facts of those investigations out to more people who may be on the fence about him. It'd also potentially create a bigger showdown with the Senate - given enough evidence, it could easily become framed as whether the Republican-led Senate cares about the country or the party. Impeachment hearings aren't just saying you want to impeach and having a vote, it's a whole investigative process.

Also, don't forget that Nixon was pretty popular and had a supportive senate when the house held hearings on his impeachment.

I definitely get the idea that Trump will use it to rally his base, but IMHO he's already doing that, so to me there's basically nothing to lose at this point.

[Crazed_Insanity]

We tried with Mueller. Got us nowhere.

Pretty sure we can try and try again, and still nothing would happen.

I wouldn't say there's nothing to lose in more attempts. You just end up wasting time and taxpayer's money. Most effective way is to vote in a better president!

Our current political system is just getting busier and busier bringing the opposition down and catering to the super rich all the while not doing anything else that they should be doing. That's why the nation is literally falling apart and grinding to a halt!

Plus, what's the point of bringing Trump down if DNC has no clear leadership or vision? Let's say we got rid of all conservative republicans politicians... what then?

How will you fix our screwed up expensive as hell healthcare? How would you fix high cost of seemingly useless higher education? Globalization and automation will render most americans useless... what then? Will democrats really care about average americans? or will democrats focus on saving the planet 1st by passing legislations regarding straw use and ensure we that have enough unisex bathrooms... not saying that our planet or the marginalized are unimportant, but when bulk of the average americans are left behind due to various reasons... can we really just tell them, well, you had your white priviliges, so screw you guys. We need to save earth 1st and the people you stepped on 1st. If we continued to have this kind of attitude, surely Trump II will come back stronger and oranger!

[Tom Servo]

If only there were some sort of televised debates and campaign events and websites and interviews where these candidates could discuss their plans and we could learn about them. Oh, what a world that would be.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, after we studied them, which democratic candidate do you think is the most appealing to the trump supporters?

Most capable of bridging the wealth gap?

I’m not attacking warren, I don’t mind if she ended up winning, I just think there’s a better man for the job.

Also, my earlier comments was meant to remind liberals to not focus too much on partisan politics but attention should be paid to actually fixing America’s trouble road ahead... there’s no time for status quo and partisan politics.

[Tom Servo]

This little GTX poll has more of a "nice answer, but you're wrong" vibe than I'm used to from polls.

[neanderthal]

I definitely disagree on that one. I mean, yes, the Senate won't do anything and Trump will remain in office. Totally agree with you there.

The thing is, Trump already does all those things. And his base already believes it. In the meantime, impeachment hearings would open up a lot more avenues of investigation and get the facts of those investigations out to more people who may be on the fence about him. It'd also potentially create a bigger showdown with the Senate - given enough evidence, it could easily become framed as whether the Republican-led Senate cares about the country or the party. Impeachment hearings aren't just saying you want to impeach and having a vote, it's a whole investigative process.

Also, don't forget that Nixon was pretty popular and had a supportive senate when the house held hearings on his impeachment.

I definitely get the idea that Trump will use it to rally his base, but IMHO he's already doing that, so to me there's basically nothing to lose at this point.

See, ... I happen to agree with that. We definitely need impeachment, but the timing is not right. The masses will have forgotten what happened in a year. This impeachment inquiry by Congress ideally starts to happen in April- ish. Maybe May. And the investigation should be into Trump but also all the other scummy politicians who have enabled him, profited from his regime (McConnell and Chao for instance) and just bring the whole thing crumbling down like Drogon going after the throne. Ideally that concludes in August or so, leaving the Senate plenty of time to ... probably do nothing.

Now with an impeachment, and a do nothing Senate, dems can hammer home that Trump is just the head of the snake, that all the GOP are complicit, etc.

If they leave it too late Mitch will just do nothing. It must conclude with plenty of time for the Senate to sit.

My beef is with the "impeach now" crowd. Impeaching now is a short term plan that gets us nothing, either now or long term. Impeaching middle of next year, voters will have the testimony fresh in their minds (compared to now) and lack of action will be fodder for all the television and radio ads.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This little GTX poll has more of a "nice answer, but you're wrong" vibe than I'm used to from polls.

Oh com’on you guys give me much stronger vibes! :p

Whether we’re right or left, it’s up to us to decide.

We absolutely need to make America think harder rather than allowing our emotions to run too wild...

[neanderthal]

Wow. Hope you let off some steam?

Best way to oust this president is by voting in somebody better. You can keep on blaming me or other 3rd party voters if you want. I’ll just continue to blame the DNC for insisting on Hillary and not capitalizing or at least consolidating on sanders momentum.

Third party voters ARE to blame. Our presidential general election isn't the place or time to assuage your fee fees. There are two candidates who have a good chance of winning. Choosing anyone else is folly.
Oh, and it wasn't "the DNC" that insisted on Hillary; 4 million more people voted for her in the primary. That you're still saying that just shows how much propaganda you consumed.
Yes. The Russians perpetuated the "bernie was cheated lie" in the immediate aftermath of the primary.


Hillary wasn’t the better candidate because I’m not sure if she had any real core values. She’s just a more politically correct trump, would say or be whatever voters or lobbyists want. The only dem candidate like that now is probably Harris. Used to be your favorite, is she still is?

Keep telling yourself that as children are put in cages, Puerto Rico, etc. Keep comforting yourself with that lie.


The only possible way for dem to lose my vote again is to nominate Harris as their candidate. I think the likelihood of that should be low.

So, assuming Kamala wins, you're saying you're quite willing to burn down this country in order to ... prove what exactly? That blackmail tactic won't work; we've already got Trump. Y'all petulant third party voters shot the hostage when you voted the way you did last time around. You can't blackmail us with more Trump, and that's why you'll find there's a metric fuckton of pushback to that "my candidate or Trump" attitude.
Then y'all have the nerve to also whine about how the left is divided.
Like I said earlier, introspection is not your strong suit.


This time around, pretty much every candidate is a type of Bernie Sanders.

Only one serious candidate is a grifter; Sanders. None are a type of Sanders.


Btw, how many times do you really need to remind me google is free? Do you really believe that I don’t know that? Come on dude, come up with better and new insults at least. :p

It's not an insult, it's a fact. You seem unable to research basic information. I'm bringing that fact into your conscience; It's 2019, and google is still free.


Lastly, you really need to stop warping twist other people's words and actions. Do you know me? No you don't. You don't even believe I can google. After I googled and found a 'white' psychologist... you can immediately tell by the color of his skin that his words are wrong.

No. Your reading comprehension is quite shit too. Clearly.


And that is the bullshit i was talking about; the victims doing the emotional labor of others. Why shouldn't I get angry? Why can't I get angry? Policing my emotions is just another form of supremacy.

The title and lede said it all. I literally stopped reading right there.
And of course billi thinks that's not quite what it says. And did you notice that he didn't seem open to that interpretation, preferring to hug his version that says "racist won't change so fuck it."

But he's trying to talk to me through the other side of his forked tongue saying "how can we reduce/ eliminate racism?' just a few posts ago. I wasn't foold then, and i'm not fooled when he posts trash think pieces that don't do anything to actually change his world view, but reinforce it.

I clearly read the title, and read the lede. I said so right there. My conclusions and decision to stop were based on that. It told me enough. You may choose to entertain your mind with drivel, but I don't. I won't.



Dude, you are a black/thought supremacist! Anyone who doesn't fit your 'dogma' is just fucking wrong, right?

Examples. Show your work


Why are you afraid to compare 'dogmas' and may the best dogma win?

Casting pearls before swine. You're on most peoples ignore list because you argue in bad faith. You use strawman/ red herring arguments, reducio ad absurdum, fallacies, etc.


Let's move the discussion forward dude.

Which candidate do you support and why?

I support Yang. Why? Because I think he has a better plan for everything than Warren. Only draw back is that he lacks political experience, but not sure if that's a bad thing.

Hope you'll be able to respond with why your candidate is better and not just continue to mouth off Yang and Billi and other white people who disagree with you.

Hope we can have meaningful discussions.

Kamala/ Castro. That's the ticket I want to see.

Both appeal to me at a basic level. As do, to a lesser extent, Booker, and Beto.

I'm not troubled by their pasts.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I guess we are really polar opposites. I’m not interested in the past anymore... so I’m gonna move on.

I don’t like Harris because I just don’t get what core message she’s delivering... other than attacking trump and Biden. Fine, they suck, but what makes you a better leader? She needs to clarify that.

I’m beginning to dislike Castro for the same reason. Do you have anything better to say other than attacking Biden? He served under the same Obama admin!!! You might as well attack Obama too?!? If you want to repent your sins, fine, but do you really need to attack your former bosses for your own gain? Too negative for me.

Of course other candidates attacked Biden too, but at least they have more plans or didn’t serve under the Obama admin directly...

It’s interesting how I dislike your candidates the most and you probably like Yang the least because he’s now my favorite! ;)

[neanderthal]

"Attacking Biden?" It's called being vetted. Biden has an awful history. He can be made to account for it, and he's doing so poorly, making him less electable.

[Tom Servo]

Oh com’on you guys give me much stronger vibes! :p


No doubt we do, but you asked saying it was a "little GTX poll". I have never taken a poll that immediately told me my answer was wrong.

"How satisfied were you with your customer support experience, with 1 being not satisfied and 10 being completely satisfied?" *writes in 3* "I'll have you know that we have the finest customer support in the land and that by answering three you just show that you're mired in the past and where are your ideas to make our customer support better and don't you know that if you're not satisfied that'll just mean that Comcast will buy us out and then you'll be stuck with them and how will you like that?!?"

[Leon]

Ding ding ding.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I only asked a general question, you claimed to feel the vibe that I’m telling you that you are wrong. ( I didn’t)

If you’re convinced that you made the right choice, you probably won’t feel such vibe.

Seriously, election choices are never right or wrong or black or white. Of all people, even I know such nuances. Okay, trump is as close to being wrong as one can be, but I wouldn’t call everyone who elected him wrong. It’s their right.

[Crazed_Insanity]

"Attacking Biden?" It's called being vetted. Biden has an awful history. He can be made to account for it, and he's doing so poorly, making him less electable.

Castro did to Biden what Neanderthal does to Billi. Don’t take my words for it.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/sep/13/julian-castro/julian-castro-attack-joe-bidens-health-plan-falls-/

[Tom Servo]

I only asked a general question, you claimed to feel the vibe that I’m telling you that you are wrong. ( I didn’t)

If you’re convinced that you made the right choice, you probably won’t feel such vibe.

Seriously, election choices are never right or wrong or black or white. Of all people, even I know such nuances. Okay, trump is as close to being wrong as one can be, but I wouldn’t call everyone who elected him wrong. It’s their right.

You are straight up gaslighting at this point. You did not ask a general question. You literally said "I know which candidate I like, but just wondering which ones you guys like so that we can conduct our own little GTX poll here." That is the only reason I answered, because I have no desire to enter into a debate with you because I know how you debate and I have no interest in doing that again.

FFS, own it. Don't dance around it like a Trump press secretary. BTW, I also don't have any interest in debating this either. I answered because I thought you were genuinely curious about how people stood. It's clear that that wasn't the motivation, and I have zero desire to subject myself or anyone else in this thread to any more of it.

[neanderthal]

Castro did to Biden what Neanderthal does to Billi. Don’t take my words for it.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/sep/13/julian-castro/julian-castro-attack-joe-bidens-health-plan-falls-/

You mean call him out on his bull shit?


Biden did say at several points before Castro challenged him that enrollment would be automatic — essentially a formality.

Biden said that "anyone who can't afford it gets automatically enrolled in the Medicare-type option we have."

He also said, "If you want Medicare, if you lose the job from your insurance — from your employer — you automatically can buy into this. No pre-existing condition can stop you from buying in. You get covered, period."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Swervo, where did I say that you’re wrong? Read my general questions below along with my other comments.


Yes, after we studied them, which democratic candidate do you think is the most appealing to the trump supporters?

Most capable of bridging the wealth gap?

I’m not attacking warren, I don’t mind if she ended up winning, I just think there’s a better man for the job.

Also, my earlier comments was meant to remind liberals to not focus too much on partisan politics but attention should be paid to actually fixing America’s trouble road ahead... there’s no time for status quo and partisan politics

Not going to own what I didn’t say.
Whatever vibrations you picked up, whatever misunderstandings, I’d be happy to clear it up. If you want to insist you know billi better than I know billi, I guess I can’t stop you, just not going to own that version of billi. :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

[/spoiler]

You mean call him out on his bull shit?
Yes, politifact called out Castro’s BS.

I hope you actually read the whole thing? You thought I posted a link of Biden’s BS?

[neanderthal]

I wouldn't have been able to quote the passage without reading the article.

[neanderthal]

Swervo, where did I say that you’re wrong? Read my general questions below along with my other comments.



Not going to own what I didn’t say.
Whatever vibrations you picked up, whatever misunderstandings, I’d be happy to clear it up. If you want to insist you know billi better than I know billi, I guess I can’t stop you, just not going to own that version of billi. :p


I just think there is a better man for the job.
...

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wouldn't have been able to quote the passage without reading the article.
I’m beginning to think you have reading comprehension issues.

I asked if you read the WHOLE thing. You assumed I thought you didn’t read it.

I never called swervo’s choice wrong, yet you think I actually said he’s wrong and went on to quote what I didn’t say.

Politifact called out Castro’s BS, but all you see is Biden’s BS.

You are so funny! :D

Anyway, as funny as it is, I’d really appreciate if you guys can stop twisting what I said along with not twisting the links I provided. Thanks!

Swervo, I also specifically stated that I do like warren. If I really meant you made the wrong choice, at least I still like your wrong choice. Hope that helps? Like I said, even if somebody wants to vote trump, I wouldn’t call that wrong.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, I hope we can all just stop debating about Billi. I'm also cool with ignoring Billi altogether if you develop allergic reactions just by reading my posts. Sorry about that, but I'm really not here for Billi either.

However, I do want to promote Andrew Yang's ideas. Again, just because I think he's the BEST choice at the moment, doesn't mean that I think your current preferred candidates are wrong, okay? I also reserve the right to change my mind over time... So unless a name appeared on a ballot illegally, there are no 'wrong' candidates, okay? That's just my opinion.

So let's try to turn out attention to Andrew Yang.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/09/19/andrew-yang-free-money-not-going-hurt-me-editorials-debates/2379160001/

If you feel like we should also examine other candidates, feel free to promote your favorite candidate. Let's try to make this as positive as possible please. We don't really need to bring down other democrats just to promote your favorite democrat. Thanks!

So far I've altered my favorite from Bernie, to Mayor Pete and now to Yang. I'm just trying to pick out the best guy for the nation. There are no right or wrong answers... please don't take offense to something that I never said or never intended.

[Tom Servo]

This whole whistleblower/withholding military aid from Ukraine unless they investigate Biden and his son/prevent the whistleblower from speaking to Congress thing sounds pretty horrible. Surprisingly, the Wall Street Journal appears to be taking the lead on this, and that's a paper Trump has praised in the past. I just worry that the Overton window has shifted so much at this point that nobody is particularly worried about the president withholding aid from an ally at wartime to get them to go after his political rivals.

[neanderthal]

I’m beginning to think you have reading comprehension issues.

I asked if you read the WHOLE thing. You assumed I thought you didn’t read it.

I never called swervo’s choice wrong, yet you think I actually said he’s wrong and went on to quote what I didn’t say.

Politifact called out Castro’s BS, but all you see is Biden’s BS.

You are so funny! :D

Anyway, as funny as it is, I’d really appreciate if you guys can stop twisting what I said along with not twisting the links I provided. Thanks!

Swervo, I also specifically stated that I do like warren. If I really meant you made the wrong choice, at least I still like your wrong choice. Hope that helps? Like I said, even if somebody wants to vote trump, I wouldn’t call that wrong.

No. You're full of wrong assumptions.

[neanderthal]

Yes, after we studied them, which democratic candidate do you think is the most appealing to the trump supporters?

Most capable of bridging the wealth gap?

I’m not attacking warren, I don’t mind if she ended up winning, I just think there’s a better man for the job.

Also, my earlier comments was meant to remind liberals to not focus too much on partisan politics but attention should be paid to actually fixing America’s trouble road ahead... there’s no time for status quo and partisan politics.

Of course you didn't say it.

No, wait a minute, after a video review the judges have determined that you DID say it.

[sandydandy]

If I may interject Billi vs Mo part 385, just to say I found out recently that Lou Dobbs works for Fox News, where he licks Trump’s rectum for a living. Imagine my disappointment when I saw the Daily Show clip of him rapping Trump’s praises like a sycophant suck up.

I liked Lou when he was with CNN doing the money show. Knew next to nothing about him otherwise. Now after doing some research I see he’s anti-immigration, anti-environment and believes Obama isn’t American.

A perfect fit for this administration. What a joke.

[Tom Servo]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/20/as-a-foreign-reporter-visiting-the-us-i-was-stunned-by-trumps-press-conference

[Crazed_Insanity]

This whole whistleblower/withholding military aid from Ukraine unless they investigate Biden and his son/prevent the whistleblower from speaking to Congress thing sounds pretty horrible. Surprisingly, the Wall Street Journal appears to be taking the lead on this, and that's a paper Trump has praised in the past. I just worry that the Overton window has shifted so much at this point that nobody is particularly worried about the president withholding aid from an ally at wartime to get them to go after his political rivals.

If he could work with a more adversarial govt to get Hillary and meddle with our election process, why couldn’t he work with a more friendly govt to get Biden’s son... and also get away with it?

With Trump, I think we can continue to look to new lows...

Our best chance is to have a strong candidate who can beat him.

Luckily at this point, pretty much every dem candidate could beat trump in a match up according to recent polls.

What scares me is that which ever candidate we end up with, trump will then focus in on his smear campaign, will the ‘candidate’ be able to withstand that?

[neanderthal]

If he could work with a more adversarial govt to get Hillary and meddle with our election process, why couldn’t he work with a more friendly govt to get Biden’s son... and also get away with it?

With Trump, I think we can continue to look to new lows...

Our best chance is to have a strong candidate who can beat him.

Luckily at this point, pretty much every dem candidate could beat trump in a match up according to recent polls.

What scares me is that which ever candidate we end up with, trump will then focus in on his smear campaign, will the ‘candidate’ be able to withstand that?


I've said before that introspection isn't your strong suit. Bold.

2016 called, and the candidate who got 4 million more votes than Trump, and more votes than any previous president not called Barack Hussein Obama, called. Wanted to know where your introspection was, believe it or not.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I believed sanders was in a better position to win the White House 2016, but who knows.

As much as I disliked Hillary, I wasn’t expecting her to lose. Most people probably all thought likewise, and most people actually voted for her, but unfortunately it just didn’t work out.

So ahead slightly Nationally in the polls don’t really mean much with electoral college. We needed a candidate who could win more swing states.

In retrospect, Obama should’ve kept his promise to remain a senator and just let Hillary be the president 1st time around.

2016 was just not the ideal time for an established politician like Hillary.

People are jaded by the political system and they were looking for an antiestablishment fresh face. Trump took advantage of that void fully.

Come 2020, I do believe Bernie to be too old. Warren should be able to carry on his torch much better in the White House. I’m only scared of how trump might use BS tactics to mess Pocahontas up before she actually wins...

For a face to face match up against trump, I do believe Biden, sanders or yang are probably the best ones to steal trump votes.

Yang is actually someone who the trump voters are really looking for.

Like I said before, Yang is the new Bernie. Come next election cycle, there’ll be a lot more candidates sounding more and more like yang.

Biden is actually already copying yang!

https://youtu.be/DviRAsIpB-M

[neanderthal]

Trump voters voted for a racist.

Not interested in what they have to say.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump voters are not ALL racists. Don’t be like Billi and paint with such a broad stroke without any nuances.

Those ‘privileged’ white people who lost their blur collar jobs due to globalization and automation can be angry too when their lives are being treated unfairly.

Not all white people can afford to buy into elite universities. Yeah, they don’t end up in jail as long as black people, but stressed out and depressed white people can OD just like any other human being. We have lost more lives than Vietnam war now. A whole generation of lives lost.

Those white people are surely privileged?

Anyway, when people are stressed, depressed, angry, I can’t blame them for voting for someone who seemed to understand their problems and not go for someone who thought they’re deplorable and privileged.

Unfortunately trump isn’t really solving their problems.

Again, another plug for yang. He’s committed to solve their problems rather than blaming everything on Mexicans.

[FaultyMario]

How the young look (https://twitter.com/i/status/1176163728271839232)at Trump.

[MR2 Fan]

so there's a Shut Down DC event going on with climate activists, BLM activists and others as well....but they're blocking the roadways.

I don't think this is helping their cause by shutting down the roadways as they'll end up hurting a lot more innocent people than helping. ALSO, if you're going to protest like this, people need specifics on what they want to be changed, not just that something randomly needs to change.

That's what I like about the HK protests, they have extremely clear goals spelled out.

[FaultyMario]

Administration wants to move BLM HQ to Colorado, to a building that also has Oil and construction companies as tennants (https://www.cpr.org/2019/09/20/the-blm-just-announced-its-grand-junction-address-it-shares-the-building-with-several-oil-and-gas-companies/). The move only accounts for 27 of its 550 employees.

[JoeW]

I have not met a single Trump supporter who didn’t have at least one or two racist bones in their bodies. Even the ones who are hard core republicans and vote party lines no matter what.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So you're saying pretty much all republicans you've met are racists?

Am I understanding you correctly?

And what is the definition of a 'racist bone'?

IMHO, everyone is racist somewhat. Liberals can't possibly be immune to racism... for otherwise BLM wouldn't happen in blue states... or perhaps more conservative republicans become cops than liberals? Also our judicial system is occupied by more republicans? That's why black people got punished more harshly than whites?

Anyway, so can you clarify what you meant with your post? What's the true point you're trying to make... do you basically agree with Neanderthal that those white supremacists trump voters are hopelessly deplorable or perhaps I'm misunderstanding something?

[JoeW]

I am just saying that everyone I know who is a hardcore republican has a value set that is very white centric. They tend to use the term “the blacks” when generalizing about the subject. “The blacks” moved into the neighborhood and ruined the property values...or you can substitute that for “The Hispanics” when applicable...and so on. These are racist statements.

I hear stuff like that a lot. And being from the south the confederate flag is another good indicator. I don’t know any democrat rebel flag flyers.

I’m not saying there aren’t racists on either side...I’m saying all the hardcore republicans I know of use those racist sweeping terms when describing what’s wrong with country in their eyes. When they talk about healthcare and law enforcement they invariably slip up and say something generalizing how a certain ethnicity is a big part of the problem.

[George]

I'm not going to say that some Trump supporters aren't racist. Having lived in the south most of my life, I agree with JoeW's comments. But I don't think racism is the only thing going on in America today.

I continue to believe that Trump won because the Democrats had a candidate that didn't stand very far apart from Trump in some voters' minds due to real and/or alleged scandals in her distant and recent past. I think a lot of people simply weren't going to vote for Hillary, no matter what. I did, but with reluctance. She was OBVIOUSLY the better person for the job, but not an ideal candidate in my opinion. Qualified? Unquestionably. But I'm not a fan, until you compare her to Trump.

Perhaps some thought "How much worse could Trump be? Aww hell, hold my beer and watch this!" as they cast their ballots for Someone Other Than Mrs. Clinton. That's who a lot of them voted for - not for Trump but against Clinton.

So how do we fix this mess?

The Democrats need to come up with someone of sound character and no scandals to make Trump appear more like what he is - an astonishingly ignorant, amoral con man. Maybe I'm naive, but I still believe there are Republicans who value morality and integrity who would cross party lines and vote the bum out if given a clear choice of this vs. that. I think many Republicans decided they didn't like Hillary decades ago and didn't see all that much difference between the two in terms of previous and likely future scandals.

I say to the Democrats: Keep your "a chicken in every pot and a thousand bucks in every wallet" vote-buying schemes and give us someone normal and decent and without a decades-long track record to throw rocks at. Biden and Sanders seem to be likable people who have some good and/or different ideas (well, Sanders, anyway), but older folks (who vote in larger percentage than younger, historically) know one as Obama's VP and the other as an avowed Socialist, for crying out loud!

I don't think Bernie's views are all that shocking now (despite what a much younger me thought), but older Republicans aren't going to vote for Biden or Sanders (or Warren) any more than they voted for Hillary, no matter how distasteful the Republican candidate may be.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So which of the latest 10 dem candidates are the most appealing to republicans in your opinion George?

[neanderthal]

Trump voters are not ALL racists. Don’t be like Billi and paint with such a broad stroke without any nuances.

Those ‘privileged’ white people who lost their blur collar jobs due to globalization and automation can be angry too when their lives are being treated unfairly.

Not all white people can afford to buy into elite universities. Yeah, they don’t end up in jail as long as black people, but stressed out and depressed white people can OD just like any other human being. We have lost more lives than Vietnam war now. A whole generation of lives lost.

Those white people are surely privileged?

Anyway, when people are stressed, depressed, angry, I can’t blame them for voting for someone who seemed to understand their problems and not go for someone who thought they’re deplorable and privileged.

Unfortunately trump isn’t really solving their problems.

Again, another plug for yang. He’s committed to solve their problems rather than blaming everything on Mexicans.

I didn't say they were racist, I said they voted for a racist. Big fucking difference.

But, that said if racism isn't that big of a deal to you, to make you not vote for a racist, bully for you, but I can't fuck with you coz that's some vile shit.

[Tom Servo]

I'm relieved to see that this Ukraine deal is starting to get real traction. It felt like it was going to be another one that nobody paid much attention to, but it seems like at least some people are actually seeing it for what it is - that Trump was willing to withhold aid to an ally for his own personal benefit and to the detriment of our country's national interests. It doesn't hurt that he's essentially admitted the whole thing too (well, when he's not whipping back and forth between admitting it and denying it, at any rate), so that seems to make the investigation that much easier.

[neanderthal]

I'm not going to say that some Trump supporters aren't racist. Having lived in the south most of my life, I agree with JoeW's comments. But I don't think racism is the only thing going on in America today.

I continue to believe that Trump won because the Democrats had a candidate that didn't stand very far apart from Trump in some voters' minds due to real and/or alleged scandals in her distant and recent past. I think a lot of people simply weren't going to vote for Hillary, no matter what. I did, but with reluctance. She was OBVIOUSLY the better person for the job, but not an ideal candidate in my opinion. Qualified? Unquestionably. But I'm not a fan, until you compare her to Trump.

Perhaps some thought "How much worse could Trump be? Aww hell, hold my beer and watch this!" as they cast their ballots for Someone Other Than Mrs. Clinton. That's who a lot of them voted for - not for Trump but against Clinton.

So how do we fix this mess?

The Democrats need to come up with someone of sound character and no scandals to make Trump appear more like what he is - an astonishingly ignorant, amoral con man. Maybe I'm naive, but I still believe there are Republicans who value morality and integrity who would cross party lines and vote the bum out if given a clear choice of this vs. that. I think many Republicans decided they didn't like Hillary decades ago and didn't see all that much difference between the two in terms of previous and likely future scandals.

I say to the Democrats: Keep your "a chicken in every pot and a thousand bucks in every wallet" vote-buying schemes and give us someone normal and decent and without a decades-long track record to throw rocks at. Biden and Sanders seem to be likable people who have some good and/or different ideas (well, Sanders, anyway), but older folks (who vote in larger percentage than younger, historically) know one as Obama's VP and the other as an avowed Socialist, for crying out loud!

I don't think Bernie's views are all that shocking now (despite what a much younger me thought), but older Republicans aren't going to vote for Biden or Sanders (or Warren) any more than they voted for Hillary, no matter how distasteful the Republican candidate may be.

See, I think the onus is on Republicans need to get rid of the racists in their midst, but that's just me.

I don't care how awful someone may be in other areas, racism is my line in the sand. I've lived in an apartheid state ad let me tell you, that's the most vile most contemptible trait one can have.

My biggest beef outside of the racism is the "but her emails" nonsense. Ain't nobody could tell us what was in those emails but it was the biggest security risk ever. Apparently not; nobody was ever able to read the damn things.


Only the least intellectually capable could fall for that crap. Maybe it's because of my past having lived in Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, that I question the news apparatus of their motives. Especially when all they do is parrot the same thing but have no evidence to back its validity.

----

Which brings up; anyone notice the phrasing of the question about their previous LGBQT stance, directed at Kamala Harris versus Liz Warren this last weekend? Kamala got a fastball to the head, while Elizabeth got a gentle underhand lob.

[neanderthal]

See, I think the onus is on Republicans need to get rid of the racists in their midst, but that's just me.

I don't care how awful someone may be in other areas, racism is my line in the sand. I've lived in an apartheid state ad let me tell you, that's the most vile most contemptible trait one can have.

My biggest beef outside of the racism is the "but her emails" nonsense. Ain't nobody could tell us what was in those emails but it was the biggest security risk ever. Apparently not; nobody was ever able to read the damn things.


Only the least intellectually capable could fall for that crap. Maybe it's because of my past having lived in Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, that I question the news apparatus of their motives. Especially when all they do is parrot the same thing but have no evidence to back its validity.

----

Which brings up; anyone notice the phrasing of the question about their previous LGBQT stance, directed at Kamala Harris versus Liz Warren this last weekend? Kamala got a fastball to the head, while Elizabeth got a gentle underhand lob.

And, while we're at it, I think a lot of the questions being asked of the Democrats about Trump need to be directed at the Republicans. What do they think of what he's said? What do they think of what he's done? Their silence, and moreover their inaction, demonstrates that they are equally complicit in his crimes and misdeeds.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm relieved to see that this Ukraine deal is starting to get real traction. It felt like it was going to be another one that nobody paid much attention to, but it seems like at least some people are actually seeing it for what it is - that Trump was willing to withhold aid to an ally for his own personal benefit and to the detriment of our country's national interests. It doesn't hurt that he's essentially admitted the whole thing too (well, when he's not whipping back and forth between admitting it and denying it, at any rate), so that seems to make the investigation that much easier.

https://apple.news/Ap6CmHR1nTLKK7qK35npgzA

[Crazed_Insanity]

I didn't say they were racist, I said they voted for a racist. Big fucking difference.

But, that said if racism isn't that big of a deal to you, to make you not vote for a racist, bully for you, but I can't fuck with you coz that's some vile shit.

Bottom line is I don’t believe ALL trump supporters are white supremacists, surely enough can be won over somehow to swing those swing states back in the other direction.

He had the advantage of having no political baggages before..., but not anymore. He is now ‘established’ I his own way... dem just need to present an obviously better candidate to win...

[neanderthal]

Bottom line is I don’t believe ALL trump supporters are white supremacists, surely enough can be won over somehow to swing those swing states back in the other direction.

He had the advantage of having no political baggages before..., but not anymore. He is now ‘established’ I his own way... dem just need to present an obviously better candidate to win...

You can believe that all you want.

I personally don't care to win over people who are ok enough with racism to vote for a racist. "I'm not a racist but I voted for someone who's done and said some very racist things" isn't a difference I care to parse.

[neanderthal]

And, by the way, to allay your "Bernie was cheated" thoughts, here (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3443916) is a study showing the complete opposite.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Look, we need to win those votes over in order to win, racists or not.

Just as Bernie needed those votes in order to win the nomination whether if the system was rigged or not.

If a black dude was able to win it once, I think that’s sufficient proof that most Americans are NOT overly racists!

Of course racism still is around, but I’m pretty confident of my belief.

I can agree that most Americans are racists, including liberals, but surely most are not white supremacists.

[JoeW]

The only black racist I know who was also a white supremist was Clayton Bigsby.

I REALLY wanted to post a video of Clayton in action but I figured some may not approve. If you are unfamiliar with his work then search him on YouTube. He was quite a big deal for years. But he fell out of favor after making a huge mistake at a rally.

[tigeraid]

:lol:

[neanderthal]

Look, we need to win those votes over in order to win, racists or not.

Just as Bernie needed those votes in order to win the nomination whether if the system was rigged or not.

If a black dude was able to win it once, I think that’s sufficient proof that most Americans are NOT overly racists!

Of course racism still is around, but I’m pretty confident of my belief.

I can agree that most Americans are racists, including liberals, but surely most are not white supremacists.

Miss me with that bullshit. You might be ok with that shit, but i'm not trying to gain the votes of people who were willing to overlook racism for ... whatever their reasons were. That's my line in the sand.

The worst things to happen to people in the history of mankind have been mostly due to racism, so I don't fuck with it's apologists.

[neanderthal]

The only black racist I know who was also a white supremist was Clayton Bigsby.

I REALLY wanted to post a video of Clayton in action but I figured some may not approve. If you are unfamiliar with his work then search him on YouTube. He was quite a big deal for years. But he fell out of favor after making a huge mistake at a rally.

Chappelle was next level on that show. Lawd have mercy!

Comedic brilliance.

[Crazed_Insanity]

[/spoiler]

Miss me with that bullshit. You might be ok with that shit, but i'm not trying to gain the votes of people who were willing to overlook racism for ... whatever their reasons were. That's my line in the sand.

The worst things to happen to people in the history of mankind have been mostly due to racism, so I don't fuck with it's apologists.

Are you saying Obama won some of those shit votes? Since he won support of some racists, he should also draw a line in the sand and reject those votes and give up the white house?

Don't be ridiculous dude!

All I'm saying is that dems need to win back the votes that they lost at least. If you can have a truly inspiring candidate who can give people hope for the future, win margin can only grow bigger.

It is partisan politics that's causing people to dig in their heels in shitty sand. Reluctantly voting for somebody only because the other candidate is scarier. That's a shit way to vote.

[FaultyMario]

House Speaker Pelosi to announce formal impeachment inquiry of Trump after resisting for months
##

Edit: Announcement to be made at 5PM EDT.

[FaultyMario]

It seems te Ukraine thing is what nails it. Whistleblower's all lawyered up.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You’re that confident that trump will be nailed?

We’ll see. I seriously hope I’m wrong.

[FaultyMario]

You’re that confident that trump will be nailed?


I'll let The Guardian answer.


Pelosi has previously been hesitant to back impeachment proceedings, arguing that Democrats needed to have the best possible case before moving forward. She now apparently thinks that they do.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hope it’s gonna be a speedy impeachment though.

Pelosi is in a difficult spot. To impeach or not to impeach? Damned if she did damned is she didn’t.

Guardians’ words included ‘apparently thinks’! They don’t inspire confidence. I hope she really does have something solid and not pressured into it.

[FaultyMario]

It's live reporting. They're working with limited information. They're anticipating Pelosi's message based on what their sources have said.

[MR2 Fan]

Trump tweeted this about Greta:

"She seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. So nice to see!"

so Greta made it her twitter profile statement. People said because Trump is trolling her.

I think that's the third possibility.

The first possibility is that it wasn't written by Trump (seems way too normal for him)

The second possibility is that he is attracted to her as that's his favorite age group (highly likely)

The third possibility is that he's trolling (not very possible IMO)

[FaultyMario]

Either of those options is not very statesmanlike.

[FaultyMario]

Cenk Uygur's take:


I think @repjohnlewis just saved democracy again. His speech will be part of what gets @SpeakerPelosi to finally pursue impeachment even though she clearly doesn't want to. Later the media will give her the credit as if she planned it when she's been against it the whole time.


Told ya! Just like I said earlier today: 1. John Lewis has too much moral authority within the Democratic caucus (and the country) to ignore. I knew it was the straw that would break the camel's back. 2. Nancy Pelosi will pretend to have been personally in favor of impeachment.

[Tom Servo]

In other news, apparently the Senate unanimously approved a non-binding resolution calling on the White House to provide the House and Senate intelligence committees copies of the whistleblower's complaint.

It strikes me as a toothless vote, but it's the first time in a while I can think of that Republicans, including McConnell, were even willing to go along with a symbolic vote that could upset Trump. Hopefully it's a positive sign.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Unanimously? Didn’t realize that’s even possible nowadays. Very interesting.

[neanderthal]

Are you saying Obama won some of those shit votes? Since he won support of some racists, he should also draw a line in the sand and reject those votes and give up the white house?

Don't be ridiculous dude!

All I'm saying is that dems need to win back the votes that they lost at least. If you can have a truly inspiring candidate who can give people hope for the future, win margin can only grow bigger.

It is partisan politics that's causing people to dig in their heels in shitty sand. Reluctantly voting for somebody only because the other candidate is scarier. That's a shit way to vote.

I said it was MY line in the sand. It's right fucking there where you quoted it. Stop being idiotic!

Do you read what I post or do you just read to respond?

[Tom Servo]

Say what you will about Trump, but he’s a man of his word

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFRfQZ-UEAI_GtA?format=jpg&name=large

https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/1176670149224517633?s=19

[Tom Servo]

Looks like Billi was out above the 405 the other day.

https://i.redd.it/qw8ra6vseho31.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

That doesn't even look like me! :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

[/spoiler]

I said it was MY line in the sand. It's right fucking there where you quoted it. Stop being idiotic!

Do you read what I post or do you just read to respond?

Yes, I know you said that's YOUR line, but I was illustrating the point that your line is a probably super personal one and not really applicable to others, including obama.

If you're running for public office and refuse to even talk to constituents who disagree with you or perhaps seem deplorable to you, that's your choice.

However, you can't tell an entire political party to stand behind YOUR line. Ignoring Trump supporters won't help the dems win.

With regard to impeach trump, I'm still a bit concerned. Like Comey said, this end up letting the American voters off the hook. If we do successfully remove him, his supporters most likely will 'believe' it was a political coup by the liberals. I really think it's important to show Trump and his supporters that he won't win by a 'landslide' again... no with popular vote... not with electoral votes. Plus, once Trump is removed, Pence will take over. I do believe the evangelical christians love him more... and he will be more difficult to defeat than Trump.

Anyway, we'll see. May God have mercy on our nation...

[Tom Servo]

:lol:

That doesn't even look like me! :p

I figured you were the one on the right hiding behind the banner ;)

[SportWagon]

Oh. The physical right in the picture. Not "the right" politically; "Someone on the right hiding behind a banner"

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey, I like to think that I'm near center. Just like driving, sometimes I go right and sometimes I go left, but mostly I just want to move forward.

If we constantly turn right or left, we'd just be going in circles! Even racing on an oval track, you still might need to steer right at times to pass people or steer away from troubles. Heck, if your car doesn't have a reverse gear and all you can go is forward, you'll still get stuck at times.

Everything in moderation.

I wish we can have a moderate party, but of course people in this party can't be boring and never do anything..., but a moderate party willing to sometimes turn hard right or hard left when necessary.

Our current political situation is probably similar to Boeing 737 Max plane being flown by inexperienced egomaniac pilot. Removing the pilot may not be enough to save us, but it's probably a good start.

[Tom Servo]

Derpthroat

I'm dying...

[FaultyMario]

[Excerpts from] The whistleblower's complaint:




In the course of my official duties, I have received information from multiple U.S. Government officials that the President of the United States is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election. This interference includes, among other things, pressuring a foreign country to investigate one of the President's main domestic political rivals. The President's personal lawyer, Mr. Rudolph Giuliani, is a central figure in this effort. Attorney General Barr appears to be involved as well.


I. The 25 July Presidential phone call

Early in the morning of 25 July, the President spoke by telephone with Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelenskyy. I do not know which side initiated the call. This was the first publicly acknowledged call between the two leaders since a brief congratulatory call after Mr. Zelenskyy won the presidency on 21 April.

II. Efforts to restrict access to records related to the call

In the days following the phone call, I learned from multiple US. officials that senior White House officials had intervened to "lock down" all records of the phone call, especially the official word-for-word transcript of the call that was produced -as is customary- by the White House Situation Room. This set of actions underscored to me that White House of?cials understood the gravity of what had transpired in the call.

III. Ongoing concerns

On 26 July, a day after the call, US. Special Representative for Ukraine Negotiations Kurt Volker visited Kyiv and met with President and a variety of Ukrainian political figures. Ambassador Volker was accompanied in his meetings by US. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland. Based on multiple readouts of these meetings recounted to me by various US. officials, Ambassadors Volker and Sondland reportedly provided advice to the Ukrainian leadership about how to "navigate" the demands that the President had made of Mr. Zelenskyy.

I also learned from multiple US. officials that, on or about 2 August, Mr. Giuliani reportedly traveled to Madrid to meet with one of President advisers, Andriy Yermak. The US. officials characterized this meeting, which was not reported publicly at the time, as a "direct follow-up" to the President's call with Mr. about the "cases" they had discussed.

IV. Circumstances leading up to the 25 July Presidential phone call

Beginning in late March 2019, a series of articles appeared in an online publication called The Hill. In these articles, several Ukrainian officials --most notably, Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko-- made a series of allegations against other Ukrainian officials and current and former US. officials.

[...]

that former Vice President Biden had pressured former Ukrainian President Petro
Poroshenko in 2016 to fire then Ukrainian Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin in order to quash a purported criminal probe into Burisma Holdings, a Ukrainian energy company on whose board the former Vice President's son, Hunter, sat.



Full transcript here (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6430352-20190812-Whistleblower-Complaint-Unclass.html#text/p1).

context: The "cases" are only one case, Joe Biden's son.

[neanderthal]

But remember, Hillary would have been worse!

[FaultyMario]

Dude, the 30000 emails are in a crate inside a warehouse in Ukraine! Or Ireland, I forget where her ISP was registered.


:rolleyes:

[Crazed_Insanity]

But remember, Hillary would have been worse!

It would’ve been worse in different ways.

UK trying to Brexit showed us what going whacky right is like. Actually we can show ourselves...

But France showed us what maintaining leftie status quo is like... riots.

The main problem isn’t right or left I guess..., it’s just the elites couldn’t care less for the masses as they get richer and richer.

Trump sucks doesn’t prove Hillary would’ve been awesome.

I would’ve had more respect for her if she divorced her husband and ran with her own name.

When push came to shove, would she stand with president Bill Clinton or the intern Monica? Of course her awesome husband! Who cares about that deplorable whore? Likewise, when push come to shove, will she really fight for the average American? Doubt it. This is not an attack to the left, but the entire establishment.

When the economy failed, both parties decided to save the bankers 1st. American taxpayers can wait.

[FaultyMario]

The pill just popped. WTF.

[neanderthal]

It's unravelling. We've gone from "she would have been worse" to "she should have left her husband." And now the fidelity of her husband has become her issue! All from a christian (small c) who's supposed to respect the sanctity and vows of marriage.

Seek help (you know who you are.) In fact, just show your therapist your entire posting history for context, then give them a week to get drunk and build up the courage to tackle this.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Sanctity of marriage?

It’s not like her husband never had a past.

Anyway, emails or whatever issues, it’s all basically due to her questionable character. Unless I’m Billi the rich or famous, I don’t think I can count on her to help me when I’m in need.

Finally, being critical of Hillary doesn’t mean I love trump. I’m sure I can’t count on trump the egomaniac too. Neither names should’ve been on our ballots.

Focus on impeaching the guy, but please don’t use this as if Hillary would’ve saved the day. One’s poor performance doesn’t prove competency of the other. American people are stuck in a stupid political fight to nowhere. And we have the candidates to show. To me, it’s rather sickening to see their respective bases being so blind to their candidates’ own shortcomings. America deserves better.

[Tom Servo]

When things are going great.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFd9HnHXsAABLvq?format=jpg&name=medium

[FaultyMario]

The captain is entitled to take a break in calm waters, right?

But when he is so easily distracted and the skies are so black it really makes you wonder who is at the helm.

[Tom Servo]

I am ignoring my usual rule about headlines with the word "reveal" in them.

NRA Was 'Foreign Asset' To Russia Ahead of 2016, New Senate Report Reveals (https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/764879242/nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016-new-senate-report-reveals?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=npr&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews)

Don't forget, they're tax-exempt!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Elizabeth Warren is close to losing my support...

It’s fine to have a walk back from republican to Democrat. It’s okay to walk back from Cherokee to white. It’s even okay to walk back from rigged primary to DNC only had some bias...

But when a reporter asked if the Warren admin would allow a child of its VP to serve as board member of foreign companies...

She reflexively and quickly said NO! And then decided to take that back and said that she has to think about this ethical dilemma some more...

Hmmm...

Bernie would never think twice. Of course trump would probably say yes without even thinking about it...

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/elizabeth-warren-stumbles-over-ethics-question-referencing-hunter-biden?_amp=true

If Hunter Biden ended up getting Trump out of office, I guess I’m okay with such conflict of interests issues..., but ideally, US government officials’ immediate family members really shouldn’t be on any foreign payrolls. It shouldn’t be such an ethical dilemma.

[Freude am Fahren]

Not sure which is better, the "From the Office of the President" one or this one:

http://maketrumptweetseightagain.com/?fbclid=IwAR1024UnMAV6i3UtfITkv2MhwSoIZf_JH6cpnsb4 6FRtoO7sBQmPpRDzdkI

https://scontent.fmia1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71178194_10157942468626800_7324148515154690048_n.p ng?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQkO4FC3nLAksx5mskMh0TNfKKFPSzU3QbLQzslVKrB lAoc4KP0drnH4Rkj2qeLrrw4&_nc_ht=scontent.fmia1-1.fna&oh=f2d52d2cb030f3e15184c7623954240e&oe=5DF0C479

[The359]

What's funny is I think he meant to use the term "Lil" and somehow thinks it is "Liddle". I've never for the life of me seen the word "Liddle".

[Tom Servo]

Nor have I. Also, apostrophes aren't hyphens. Also, putting an apostrophe there makes no sense, he didn't remove any letters. Also, "discribing".

[Leon]

The captain is entitled to take a break in calm waters, right?

But when he is so easily distracted and the skies are so black it really makes you wonder who is at the helm.

There's a squirrel on acid tripping balls hiding underneath the hilarious hair, and running things.

[21Kid]

Oh!
Ratatouille style! I like that idea. I'm going to picture that every time I am forced to see him going forward.

[Phil_SS]

If Hunter Biden ended up getting Trump out of office, I guess I’m okay with such conflict of interests issues..., but ideally, US government officials’ immediate family members really shouldn’t be on any foreign payrolls. It shouldn’t be such an ethical dilemma.

I'm just going to disagree with you here. Sons and Daughters should not be beholden to the sins of their parents.

[FaultyMario]

Even if there are benefits gained from those sins. You know like Jared and Ivanka?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm just going to disagree with you here. Sons and Daughters should not be beholden to the sins of their parents.

Not sure which part of my comments are you disagreeing with?

Trump shouldn’t be impeached because of this or Biden jr. should be able to work in a cushy position in whatever foreign nations while dad is the VP of the US?

Anyway, either way, let’s agree to disagree. However, It’d be nice if you can give your reasoning.

What was Biden’s sin btw? For allowing his son to take that job in Ukrain?

[Phil_SS]

Even if there are benefits gained from those sins. You know like Jared and Ivanka?

Jared and Ivanka are cases of Nepotism. Totally different.


Trump shouldn’t be impeached because of this or Biden jr. should be able to work in a cushy position in whatever foreign nations while dad is the VP of the US?


Biden Jr should be able to work for whatever company he wants, regardless of who his father is. Should all direct family members of current or past Presidents now be banned from working?

[FaultyMario]

Gotcha!

[FaultyMario]

Jared and Ivanka are cases of Nepotism. Totally different.



Question to the Public, wasn't nepotism curbed after America's other mafia president appointed his brother as Attorney General?

[mk]

There seems to be a nuance, competence.

[Tom Servo]

Question to the Public, wasn't nepotism curbed after America's other mafia president appointed his brother as Attorney General?

Sounds like there was an anti-nepotism law passed in 1967 that the Department of Justice has generally thought to bar the practice for presidents up until 2017 when it issued memos saying that it had changed its opinion on it. My guess is that it's never been tested in court.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/03/justice-department-legal-memos-presidents-appoint-relatives-243395

[Crazed_Insanity]

Jared and Ivanka are cases of Nepotism. Totally different.



Biden Jr should be able to work for whatever company he wants, regardless of who his father is. Should all direct family members of current or past Presidents now be banned from working?
Not saying Biden jr. should be banned from working for life, but serving on the board of an energy company collecting $50k/mon with seemingly no qualifications whatsoever other than possible political gains for the company...

Anyway, I feel bad/sympathetic to hunter’s personal background; nevertheless, he got to where he is/was because of dad. Nepotism was going on.

However, like I said, if this kind of nepotism can bring down trump, I’m certainly willing to look the other way. Still, in the future, it’s just not a good idea for politicians’ immediate family members to accept such cushy jobs... particularly in areas where the politician is suppose to actively develop/regulate businesses there. Conflict of interest issue will just make everyone’s job much harder.


Here are more details about Hunter:
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2019/10/1/20891510/hunter-biden-burisma-ukraine-shokin

[Tom Servo]

When it continues to go great

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EF4qLWQWsAArePA?format=png&name=small

[FaultyMario]

I'd call this news.


This person appears to have followed the whistleblower protection laws and ought to be heard out and protected. We should always work to respect whistleblowers.

[Tom Servo]

Definitely, beginning to see cracks in GOP ranks. Fox News also reported on Trump wanting to shoot migrants in the legs.

[Crazed_Insanity]

There are definitely cracks... wasn't there a poll done saying that about 35 republican senators would vote to impeach the guy if only they could cast that vote anonymously?

GOP politicians just want to keep his base happy. Pretty sure most on capitol hill don't like him.

Anyway, I'm still on the fence about impeachment. Even if we successfully got rid of the orangutan, President Pence will be a much formidable opponent come 2020. I think I'd much rather prefer to see Trump defeated by a land slide loss in 2020...

[MR2 Fan]

Doubt it. Pence will have the evangelical vote to be sure, but he's going to lose to moderates (edit: meant to say independents, there's no moderates left in the GOP obviously) by a severe margin I expect

[MR2 Fan]

In other news, 78 year old Bernie Sanders has suspended his campaign briefly to have some stents put in, and suddenly his health is going to be a big part of the Dem campaign.

I expect it will be between Biden and Warren for the nomination at this point

[Crazed_Insanity]

He’s been a fierce fighter, but yeah, I wouldn’t want my grandpa or my 70 something dad to campaign like that. Time to pass the torch Bernie. Take it easy!

I wonder who he will endorse if he’s really out of the running. Unless there’s a huge surprise, Warren should be able to consolidate most of the democratic votes...

Regarding Pence, I think it’ll be much easier for the conservatives to throw their support behind Pence than Trump.

Those ‘non-socialist independents’ appalled by trump might be reluctantly voting democrats. Without trump, their decisions will become easier.

[FaultyMario]

I expect it will be between Biden and Warren for the nomination at this point

A corporate democrat will lose. They have such a narrow band of policy (unlike wide-eyed nationalism, a la Palin/Trump), and when, like Warren, they start stealing other people's proposals, they're quickly called in on them.

[neanderthal]

Trump raised $135 million (or some super absurd sum like that) and you're going on about "corporate democrats?"

Winning political races takes money, especially at the presidential level. The distaste for corporate money is going to hand the Orange Cheetolini a second presidency. Especially in the age of Citizens United.

[FaultyMario]

Republicans are better at it, that's all am saying.

Sheesh, your Hillary is showing!

[Crazed_Insanity]

We really don't need corporate money. Please remember how Hillary lost, okay?

Trump achieved a presidential record in fundraising thru grassroot support. His base was energized thanks to the impeachment.

Just take a look at the fundraising leaders of the democrats for last quarter...

Bernie thru grassroot support raised $25 million last quarter.
Mayor Pete raised $19 million
My man Andrew Yang raised a record $10 million! He'll be taken seriously from now on I believe...

I don't think warren's #s are out yet..., but safe to say she probably raised $20+ million

I think liberal grassroot support hasn't really consolidated yet because we have so many freaking candidates to choose from... with a combined effort, I'm sure liberal grass root money could beat Trump's record.

Biden didn't have much grassroot support and even quit wasting ad money online. He'll only be able to raise money the 'traditional' way.

Neanderthal, hope you can see a trend. American people, whether conservative or liberal, are tired of corporate money influencing our politicians. Without inspiring average Americans to donate to your campaign, you're going to have a harder time raising money. Biden is suffering from lack of grass root support... and this impeachment that sort of involved his son most likely didn't help him either.

I think we can safely count Biden out at this point. Hillary was only dealing with ONE Bernie, but Biden now faces a bunch of them. Even if Bernie dropes out, there'll be another to replace him. Even if Warren drops out, there's Pete. If Pete drops out, theres Andrew..., etc.

Bernie's heart issue kinda suck, but it also confirmed my worst fear... his age.... he really should throw his weight behind somebody and just get out of the race so that we can start focusing on getting that person elected.

Anyway, point is, we don't need corporate money okay? American will be better off without it.

It's basically the corporate lobbyists telling the majority of Americans that we can't have tougher gun control... can't fight climate change..., need to have expensive and lousy healthcare, poor lives don't matter but rich lives are too big to fail..., blah, blah, blah... We can't afford politics as usual. I think it's time for a more liberal-Trump, by that I mean anti-established, but hopefully he'll be much more sensible and less corrupt.

Fundraising reference:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/us/politics/democrats-q3-fundraising-numbers.html

[neanderthal]

Republicans are better at it, that's all am saying.

Sheesh, your Hillary is showing!

Republicans are only better at it because Bernie made it seem dirty/ corrupt/ unseemly, and basically doomed Democrats to falling behind on fundraising forever.

My "Hillary" isn't showing, my being a realist is showing. I'm a realist who wants us to win, and i'm not willing to kneecap us, before the race has even started, on fundraising to do so.

[neanderthal]

We really don't need corporate money. Please remember how Hillary lost, okay?

Trump achieved a presidential record in fundraising thru grassroot support. His base was energized thanks to the impeachment.

Just take a look at the fundraising leaders of the democrats for last quarter...

Bernie thru grassroot support raised $25 million last quarter.
Mayor Pete raised $19 million
My man Andrew Yang raised a record $10 million! He'll be taken seriously from now on I believe...

I don't think warren's #s are out yet..., but safe to say she probably raised $20+ million

I think liberal grassroot support hasn't really consolidated yet because we have so many freaking candidates to choose from... with a combined effort, I'm sure liberal grass root money could beat Trump's record.

Biden didn't have much grassroot support and even quit wasting ad money online. He'll only be able to raise money the 'traditional' way.

Neanderthal, hope you can see a trend. American people, whether conservative or liberal, are tired of corporate money influencing our politicians. Without inspiring average Americans to donate to your campaign, you're going to have a harder time raising money. Biden is suffering from lack of grass root support... and this impeachment that sort of involved his son most likely didn't help him either.

I think we can safely count Biden out at this point. Hillary was only dealing with ONE Bernie, but Biden now faces a bunch of them. Even if Bernie dropes out, there'll be another to replace him. Even if Warren drops out, there's Pete. If Pete drops out, theres Andrew..., etc.

Bernie's heart issue kinda suck, but it also confirmed my worst fear... his age.... he really should throw his weight behind somebody and just get out of the race so that we can start focusing on getting that person elected.

Anyway, point is, we don't need corporate money okay? American will be better off without it.

It's basically the corporate lobbyists telling the majority of Americans that we can't have tougher gun control... can't fight climate change..., need to have expensive and lousy healthcare, poor lives don't matter but rich lives are too big to fail..., blah, blah, blah... We can't afford politics as usual. I think it's time for a more liberal-Trump, by that I mean anti-established, but hopefully he'll be much more sensible and less corrupt.

Fundraising reference:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/us/politics/democrats-q3-fundraising-numbers.html

"American people are tired of corporate money influencing our politics..." sure, but the reality is corporations have far more money and in the world of Citizens United money is what it will take to win. I'm not sacrificing our chances at the altar of financial purity because too much is at stake.

Way too much was at stake last time but 3rd part voters like you (https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/308353-trump-won-by-smaller-margin-than-stein-votes-in-all-three) fucked that up for everybody.

Maybe you haven't noticed the Republican agenda at state levels; less money for everything (cut taxes for corporations while claiming it is a middle class tax cut,= less money for counties, cities, schools, social services, etc) more money for corporations, and a decline in the standard of living for everyone who isn't a millionaire. They've been doing it at national level now with Trump, McConnell, and Ryan, and I don't want that to continue.

Feel free to think corporate money is evil but don't dissemble lies about its efficacy in politics.

[neanderthal]

Seriously, complaining about corporate money in politics at this stage is not seeing the forest for the trees. We're not going to win without it. Trump is unpopular but even if he loses there are senate seats we need to win and congressional seats we need to defend.

The Republicans have clearly shown how they intend to hold up all governance with any one chamber of government. THAT'S THE BIG PICTURE YOU'RE NOT SEEING.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Of course everyone can see that GOP has a grander vision and more methodical executions. Taking corporate money won’t get you a better vision nor better strategies.

Problem with democrats is that they lack vision and execution on all level of government. Most of the time, they play the less of the 2 evil cards. Okay, you’re less evil than the republican opponent, so what? What will you do in office? Will you truly represent the people? No. If it weren’t for the charisma of Bill Clinton and Obama, I can see that we might have all republican presidents in recent history. Actually for Clinton, we have Ross Perot to thank.

With an inspirational candidate who’s also sensible, it should be an easy win against Trump.

But of course the impeachment is making things harder to predict...

Look at it this way, corporate money wasn’t supporting Trump. Trump won the primary without the need for corporate money. That should be proof enough that a fed up grass root support will ‘trump’ corporate money.

Think about it, can a candidate taking money from energy companies and have immediate family members serving as board members of energy companies really be able to fight climate change?

Corporate money is essentially taking money from the devil. These public servants can only serve one master. Either the people or the rich corporations. Both can’t be happy at the same time.

[neanderthal]

You're more delusional than you let on if you don't believe Trump had corporate assistance; all that free publicity didn't come from college newspapers or college radio stations.

Corporate money isn't about a grander vision, or some other cockamamie liberal bullshit, it's about winning the elections. You don't get to effect change if you aren't in office.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Thanks for showing me the ropes, I figured out how to google... and it’s a fact that trump is the champ at raising record amount of money with small donors.


Trump received about $239 million from donors who gave less than $200 in total. That amounts to 69 percent of the Trump campaign’s individual contributions;

Hillary Clinton received about $137 million from $200-or-under donors. That made up 22 percent of the campaign’s individual contributions;

Bernie Sanders received about $100 million, or 44 percent of his campaign’s individual contributions.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/nov/13/kayleigh-mcenany/trump-raised-more-dollars-small-donations/

Time has come for us regular folks to buy our own politicians... voting alone is no longer enough! :p

Go ahead and send money to Harris and Castro, I’ve already sent my money to my guy! :)

Anyway, I’m sure there were corporate donors too, but trump was mostly powered by a group of angry people and his own selfish ego.., not by the usual corporate greed.

[FaultyMario]

My "Hillary" isn't showing, my being a realist is showing. I'm a realist who wants us to win.

Ah, you must be one of those radical-center extremists.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'd call him a 'real extremist'! :D

Seriously dude, I can understand where you're coming from, you don't want those crazy conservatives in charge. I'm with you there.

However, having liberals sleeping with these corporations won't do us much good either.

Regardless of political affiliation, it's pretty much a bipartisan effort that we legalized mafia bankers, pharma drug dealers, and arms dealers to make money off of us. Technologies are also transforming our lives rapidly whether it's climate change related or privacy related or aviation safety related or maybe our future job related... how can our government effectively deal with or regulate these companies if politicians are dependent on their donations? It's time for a change... not just to remove trump or the conservatives..., but a more fundamental structural change. Or else our democracy will be doomed to a point of no lives mattered.

[FaultyMario]

There were news of Jimmy Carter coming back to his Habitat For Humanity duties after he fell on his face and got a black eye. Because internet, there were obviously comparisons to the current President, Donald J. Trump. But beyond the jokes, it got me to think about Carter's presidency.

So he was basically the opposite of Trump, amirite? Down to the willingness to ask (and pay back) for political favors.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I thought Jimmy Carter is a pretty decent human being..., but didn't turn out to be that 'good' of a president IMHO.

One main concern I have with Bernie Sanders is that his presidency might turn out to be like Carter's...

I trust these guys' moral characters, but their leadership skillz might be a bit lacking.

[MR2 Fan]

the right said the same thing about Obama....oh, he's just another Carter....blah blah

[Crazed_Insanity]

Obama is at least a 2 termer.

If a president got re-elected, I think it'll be difficult to say that he's another 'Carter'! :p

Plus, it's really not bad to be a 'Carter'. It's much better to be a good person who lack leadership skills than to be a 'Trump'. One way or another, Trump better not be a 2 termer. Fingers crossed...

[FaultyMario]

You guys! I said his presidency, like, not his personality, obviously!

[FaultyMario]

It has been brought to my attention that judicial processes that are rushed and that leap over evidences were in fact created by this man:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Bob_keeshan_captain_kangaroo_1977.JPG/800px-Bob_keeshan_captain_kangaroo_1977.JPG

who wouldathunk it!

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, the latest tactic seems to be complaining that the house impeachment inquiry is unfair because the White House isn't allowed to call its own witnesses to testify, and blaming that all on the House democrats. Of course, the problem is is that's exactly how an impeachment inquiry is supposed to work. It's basically like a grand jury, it's to investigate and decide whether or not to bring up charges, at which point then you would go to trial and the defense would be allowed to call their own witnesses, and the trial is the Senate part of the impeachment process.

I've seen a few GOP folk on Twitter claiming that this is corruption on the part of the democrats in an effort to undercut the entire thing, including the head of the House republicans, McCarthy. For a party that loves wrapping itself in the constitution, they sure are eager to get rid of parts of it when they're not as convenient.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why am I not surprised?

Anything against Trump is unfair and corrupt... everything according to the will of Trump is perfect. That phone call was perfect. Donald grabbing pussies with his little hands is purrrrrfect too!

If they can interpret the bible their own way, how hard can it be to interpret the constitution another way?

My main concern is Mitch's monkey wrench during the senate trial... it is still very possible that we go thru all this trouble just to have Trump come back as a bigger asshole. Sigh...

Anyway, Americans really need to learn to get along better. I think over the weekend Ellen DeGeneres was caught having fun with W at a Cowboy game... and there was a huge backlash for that...
Here's her explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=235&v=lSZtjol7mJA

And that's why I like Andrew Yang..., I think he'll be the least 'politically polarizing' candidate focusing on not only making americans think harder but helping americans live better lives. I guess the most ideal ticket for me this election season would be Yang/DeGeneres! :D

Actually, I'd be very happy with Bernie/Yang ticket... and see them combine forces to go BANG!!!

[Tom Servo]

Heh, the GOP might have had a little bit of a legitimate gripe if this wasn't their own doing. I didn't realize that previously, subpoenas were generally put up for a bipartisan vote. However, the Republican chairman of the House Oversight Committee, Fred Upton (R-Mich), rewrote the house rules back in 2015 to give unilateral subpoena power to the chairman (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-congressional-subpoena-is-too-powerful-to-be-issued-unilaterally/2015/02/05/a9d75160-aca8-11e4-9c91-e9d2f9fde644_story.html) in the wake of feeling like they didn't get what they wanted in investigating things like Benghazi. Now that they lost control of the House, suddenly this is all so unfair!

[drew]

That's why they don't make certain things into laws, because the "other side" may be able to use it against them.

It's fucking ridiculous.

[SportWagon]

It has been brought to my attention that judicial processes that are rushed and that leap over evidences were in fact created by this man:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Bob_keeshan_captain_kangaroo_1977.JPG/200px-Bob_keeshan_captain_kangaroo_1977.JPG

who wouldathunk it!Gee, I'm pretty old, and I never remember him being that young!

[George]

He was Ensign Kangaroo back then.

[FaultyMario]

I take it the strategy was always to burn the fucking house down in case the plan went wrong.


Michael Pillsbury, an informal White House adviser on China, said he received information about the business activities of Hunter Biden during a visit to Beijing in the same week Donald Trump urged China to probe the son of Joe Biden.


:popcorn:

[Cam]

He was Ensign Kangaroo back then.

:lol:

[21Kid]

Even a fox news poll shows >50% support impeachment.

[FaultyMario]

Fuck.

Corruption does indeed kill. The incompetence of Trump's State Department in bungling the Kurds situation puts blood on their hands. The blood of innocents.

[speedpimp]

Even a fox news poll shows >50% support impeachment.
You're forgetting that poll numbers are always skewed a bit, and considering that this is a Fox poll there margin of error is probably +/-50%.

[Tom Servo]

Also, if it's an online poll it's super easy to fuck with.

[neanderthal]

You're forgetting that poll numbers are always skewed a bit, and considering that this is a Fox poll there margin of error is probably +/-50%.

I nearly choked/ spat out my food. Bravo.

[drew]

Fuck.

Corruption does indeed kill. The incompetence of Trump's State Department in bungling the Kurds situation puts blood on their hands. The blood of innocents.

It's the GOP Benghazi, except it's with non-Americans, so, fuck it, nothing to see here. Fuck these assholes.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Benghazi was way more fucked up IMHO.

There's one thing about Trump that I like is that he hasn't committed US to some bogus wars so far...

If we, the United States, want to declare war on somebody, then let's make it official and declare it and have American soldiers go fight that war to protect US interests.

Enough of being friends with our enemies' enemies... Of course we turning our backs probably will end up creating another future kurdish terrorist group which will probably hate America in the future..., but I really do agree we should get the fuck out of Syria. We need to stop fighting wars on other people's territories. Let them sort it out themselves! If we really want to go in and save them under humanitarian purposes... then let's work it out thru UN. Enough of these covert military operations. We're only making matters worse with our presence.


Anyway, I pretty much agree with this guy's analysis: https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/turkey-and-the-kurds-its-more-complicated-than-you-think/

[FaultyMario]

There's one thing about Trump that I like is that he hasn't committed US to some bogus wars so far...



Pentagon announces new troop deployments to Saudi Arabia (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/11/politics/us-additional-troops-middle-east-iran/index.html)

[FaultyMario]

Turkey and the kurds it's more complicated than you think

What the West Owes its Best Ally Against ISIS
(https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/04/04/report-from-rojava-what-the-west-owes-its-best-ally-against-isis/)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Pentagon announces new troop deployments to Saudi Arabia (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/11/politics/us-additional-troops-middle-east-iran/index.html)
We deploy troops all over the world. At least we’re not involved in a war there... yet.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What the West Owes its Best Ally Against ISIS
(https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/04/04/report-from-rojava-what-the-west-owes-its-best-ally-against-isis/)

If I were president, I probably wouldn’t leave my ‘friends’ hanging like that.

One thing I’m unsure of was trump withdrawal ended up inviting the attack or trump withdrew knowing that turkey was going to attack no matter what.

If we end up with American casualties... are we really ready to wage war against Turkey before thanksgiving?

In all seriousness, we should have gotten ourselves outta there sooner... remember, Bin Laden used be our friend too. We trained and created our monster friend. I’m sure we’ve made some more since... the longer we’re there, the more of these future monsters we will end up training.

What are we doing in Syria anyway? Do we have an exit strategy? Do we really want another Iraq or Vietnam?

Time to leave. Focus on impeaching ourselves and fix our own problems at home.

Anyway, situation really is kind weird. Trump could’ve just start another war with turkey and gain bipartisan support and possibly put impeachment proceedings aside... Why did he do what he did is kinda weird... probably more to the story.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, situation really is kind weird. Trump could’ve just start another war with turkey and gain bipartisan support and possibly put impeachment proceedings aside... Why did he do what he did is kinda weird... probably more to the story.

Okay, after some more googling around, I've discovered for myself that there exists a Trump Tower in Turkey. I guess that explains everything. Had no idea Trump has business interest there too...

Our next president really should not be a real estate developer building shit all over the world.

I guess the only benefit out of such conflict of interests would be that it'll make a president think more than twice to start wars that might destroy his own properties...

[Yw-slayer]

Wow. Ted Cruz is such a fucking cunt.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting. I guess he can afford to be a cunt against China because he has not much to lose but all the publicity to gain.

Why is he there though? Wonder what the original secret meeting was about and why he broke that secrecy which caused Lam to cancel the meeting.

[Yw-slayer]

You actually believe what he says?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ted Cruz? Of course not.

But he would be slightly better than trump though.

[Yw-slayer]

I'm not sure about that.

[Cam]

Wow. Ted Cruz is such a fucking cunt.

Are you just learning this now? :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

I sort of knew it, but as I haven't followed him closely or at all (since his opinion didn't and still doesn't affect my life in any way). But I had difficulty believing that someone could actually be that much of a fucking cunt. Doubts now dispelled.

[Crazed_Insanity]

He even looks like something Trump would grab with his little hands.

But I still stand by what I said, cunt is better than Trump.

[FaultyMario]

Fuck.

Corruption does indeed kill. The incompetence of Trump's State Department in bungling the Kurds situation puts blood on their hands. The blood of innocents.


I’m not going to share the video of human rights activist Hervin Khalaf after she was raped and stoned to death.

But I will say, I never want to hear a DAMN WORD out of Ivanka Trump’s mouth about women’s rights. She is Lady MacBeth, and this blood will not wash off her hands.

##

[Tom Servo]

Man, I go to Canada for five days and all hell breaks loose.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Any responses from last night's debate?

I only saw some highlights... Looked like Warren was ganged up pretty good by almost everyone... IMHO, she kinda deserved them.

Anyway, glad to see my man Andrew able to talk more during this debate.

Nothing much changed for me after looking at these highlights except that I had deducted more points off of Warren. I'm beginning to see how Warren might not be able to round up all of Bernie supporters should he choose to quit.

It's weird that I tend to not like front runners for whatever reason. If Andrew takes the lead, I wonder if perhaps I'll lost interest in him too...

It's nice to have so many options this election season, but they really need to narrow down the field soon...

[Tom Servo]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rudy-giulianis-twitter-feed-is-a-boomer-conspiracy-theory-shtshow?ref=author

[FaultyMario]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rudy-giulianis-twitter-feed-is-a-boomer-conspiracy-theory-shtshow?ref=author

Time-Traveling Rudy Giuliani Demands To Know What The Fuck Happened?
(http://www.breakingburgh.com/time-traveling-rudy-giuliani-demands-to-know-what-the-fk-happened/)

As the elder Giuliani tried to introduce his younger self to the President and all other people he was now working with, tension quickly developed between them.

“These are the kind of schmucks you are supposed to oppose, idiot!”

Young Giuliani was especially angry at some of the things his older self had said about legal matters.

“You’re a freaking attorney who brought down the Mob and now you’re spouting this shit?”

[FaultyMario]

impeachment.

Lest I forget, I'll let you know that I wouda done sweet, sweet badassss things to miss Nancy D'Alessandro. God was kind to her.

[Tom Servo]

At least one dude in a MAGA hat, maybe two, spray bear spray into a group of anti-Trump protesters on the Santa Monica pier, a few blocks from my work. Good times.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-20/man-sprays-bear-repellent-santa-monica-pier-trump-protest

[sandydandy]

Election Day here in Canada tomorrow.

I’m generally a Conservative voter, but not this time. Andrew Scheer is a closet KKK member, and I can’t contribute to putting him into office.

Justin Trudeau is an idiot and major fuckup, but he’s the only good choice. Can’t remember the last time I voted Liberal, so it’ll be weird casting that ballot. Go with the devil you know, I say.

Then there’s always the third option, the far far left NDP, led by Jagmeet Singh. He really has no chance of winning. I don’t think Canada is ready for a brown guy with a big beard and big ass turban as its leader. Still, part of me is rooting for him to pull off a miracle and become our next Prime Minister. The hilarity and entertainment value to ensue would be second to none. It’d be nothing short of awesome to see white people lose their shit and start a mass emigration back to Europe. :lol:

[Cam]

Part of me wanted to see Singh do well. The other part wanted to stop Sheer. I don't think Trudeau is as bad as you say he is. *shrug* I mailed in my vote weeks ago.

[neanderthal]

Hillary Clinton mentions that maybe, perhaps, it's possible that one of the candidates running is an asset of the Russians, hoping to parlay their run into a third party candidacy, to ensure a Trump victory ( no names mentioned ) and Tulsi Gabbard responds by basically saying "how dare you call me a Russian asset?" while not actually denying the allegation ...

Nobody else says anything one way or the other.

As the saying goes, a hit dog will holla

[Yw-slayer]

China accuses West of double standards over Hong Kong protests

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3033933/china-accuses-west-double-standards-over-hong-kong-protests

[Crazed_Insanity]

China accuses West of double standards over Hong Kong protests

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3033933/china-accuses-west-double-standards-over-hong-kong-protests

For sure people can be hypocrites.

What's happening in the West is caused by their own failed policies. Police violence may contain the situation temporarily, sooner or later, people up top either need to change or expect a revolution coming.

If China can managed to keep the economy growing and feeds most Chinese, the regime may continue to last for a while. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time another Hong Kong will rise up... or another dictator will rise up to take Xi's place. Chinese history has repeated for thousands of years.

When time comes for unhappy Americans to start another revolution, at least we don't need foreign assistance for arms.

Anyway, point is governments need to keep its people happy. Having the police or army beating up people without negotiating at all will always end up badly... whatever standards you apply.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hillary Clinton mentions that maybe, perhaps, it's possible that one of the candidates running is an asset of the Russians, hoping to parlay their run into a third party candidacy, to ensure a Trump victory ( no names mentioned ) and Tulsi Gabbard responds by basically saying "how dare you call me a Russian asset?" while not actually denying the allegation ...

Nobody else says anything one way or the other.

As the saying goes, a hit dog will holla

With the exception of Trump, I kinda like all of our cute little russian spy candidates so far! Especially Tulsi! Look at how cute she is!?!?!? Don't get me wrong, I also like the stuffs that she said..., but if only her policies were totally inline with Andrew Yangs, I think she has my vote for sure!!! :p I think Andrew's charisma is lacking a bit compared to Tulsi's... can't quite put my finger on it... but Tulsi has a much more seasoned stage presence than Andrew...

Anyway, post Iowa debate, I'm kinda surprised Mayor Pete's #s surged and all former frontrunners slipped... it's gonna be interesting which russian spy wins. ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Election Day here in Canada tomorrow.

I’m generally a Conservative voter, but not this time. Andrew Scheer is a closet KKK member, and I can’t contribute to putting him into office.

Justin Trudeau is an idiot and major fuckup, but he’s the only good choice. Can’t remember the last time I voted Liberal, so it’ll be weird casting that ballot. Go with the devil you know, I say.

Then there’s always the third option, the far far left NDP, led by Jagmeet Singh. He really has no chance of winning. I don’t think Canada is ready for a brown guy with a big beard and big ass turban as its leader. Still, part of me is rooting for him to pull off a miracle and become our next Prime Minister. The hilarity and entertainment value to ensue would be second to none. It’d be nothing short of awesome to see white people lose their shit and start a mass emigration back to Europe. :lol:

Don't really keep up with Canadian politics much... didn't realize you guys are as bad as we are!

Hope your next election cycle will be as interesting and with more options as ours! :)

[sandydandy]

Part of me wanted to see Singh do well. The other part wanted to stop Sheer. I don't think Trudeau is as bad as you say he is. *shrug* I mailed in my vote weeks ago. Actually Trudeau is pretty bad. Incompetent is the right word. Scandal after scandal, plus he screwed a 17-year-old girl, plus blackface (the least of his egregious behavior, IMO). But overall he's the lesser of all evils. Scheer is just no. Can't have a guy in office who has far right supporters who he refuses to admonish for fear of losing their vote. Singh is a dreamer and NDP policy generally disagrees with me. I figure the last four years with Trudeau weren't particularly that bad for me, so I'm voting for the status quo.


Don't really keep up with Canadian politics much... didn't realize you guys are as bad as we are!

Hope your next election cycle will be as interesting and with more options as ours! :) Canadian politics is usually pretty boring compared to the US, but lately it's gotten interesting with the Trump Effect bleeding north of the border. Too many wacky and closet racists coming out of the woodwork. It'll be an uneasy time for nonwhites if Andrew Scheer gets elected. Fingers crossed that's not the case tonight.

[tigeraid]

Lesser of evils indeed, sadly. Scheer is a piece of shit.

Would rather vote NDP but in this particular election it's basically pointless.

[Tom Servo]

I was kinda surprised that a guy accosted my wife and I in Vancouver over our using the bikeshare bikes, ranting that the world needs oil and that he lost a parking space. I'm not sure if he really thought he was going to win over two people on bikeshare bikes that he should have more parking, but it felt like a particularly American moment.

[tigeraid]

We have plenty of them here, too.

[Tom Servo]

The Republican party has chosen not to allow people registered as unaffiliated/independent from voting in their primary here in CA. I'm unclear from the article how often that's happened in the past, and too lazy to go look that all up. FWIW, the Democratic, Libertarian, and the American Independent parties will allow unaffiliated voters to vote in their primaries.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-21/california-independent-voters-can-cast-ballots-for-democrats-not-trump-march-2020-primary

[Freude am Fahren]

That's lame.

Florida's primaries are closed as well to independents like myself.

[FaultyMario]

Social unrest in Argentina, Ecuador and Chile. Bolivians went to the ballots and Evo was elected for a fourth time in the first round (he got a 10+ points on his closest rival). Argentina's election is on Sunday. It seems the continent is turning left.

[Yw-slayer]

I'm waiting for US senators to fly to some other countries with riots for a one-day visit to declare that they are turning into police states, there is no evidence of violence, and to declare that they stand in solidarity with the protesters.

Also for riots to break out in their own states to see what they'll do.

[neanderthal]

For sure people can be hypocrites.

What's happening in the West is caused by their own failed policies. Police violence may contain the situation temporarily, sooner or later, people up top either need to change or expect a revolution coming.

If China can managed to keep the economy growing and feeds most Chinese, the regime may continue to last for a while. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time another Hong Kong will rise up... or another dictator will rise up to take Xi's place. Chinese history has repeated for thousands of years.

When time comes for unhappy Americans to start another revolution, at least we don't need foreign assistance for arms.[/b]

Anyway, point is governments need to keep its people happy. Having the police or army beating up people without negotiating at all will always end up badly... whatever standards you apply.

So either you're an imperialist (start "revolutions" in other countries, like, say Vietnam, etc) or ammosexual (the feds can come take my gun over my dead body.)

Either is a bad look. The first because, well it'd mean you're just a cunt. The second meaning you're not a law abiding gun carrier if you're forcuing the government to come and take it. If it's illegal turn it in.

[neanderthal]

With the exception of Trump, I kinda like all of our cute little russian spy candidates so far! Especially Tulsi! Look at how cute she is!?!?!? Don't get me wrong, I also like the stuffs that she said..., but if only her policies were totally inline with Andrew Yangs, I think she has my vote for sure!!! :p I think Andrew's charisma is lacking a bit compared to Tulsi's... can't quite put my finger on it... but Tulsi has a much more seasoned stage presence than Andrew...

Anyway, post Iowa debate, I'm kinda surprised Mayor Pete's #s surged and all former frontrunners slipped... it's gonna be interesting which russian spy wins. ;)

This explains a lot. The fact that you're "siding" with a Russian agent, a Russian "useful idiot" out to undermine our democracy, our economy, our way of life, it says a lot.

It explains so much, ... you have no idea.

[neanderthal]

China accuses West of double standards over Hong Kong protests

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3033933/china-accuses-west-double-standards-over-hong-kong-protests

The west rarely acknowledges its sins. Glad to see China calling them out on the bullshittery emanating from the west.

[neanderthal]

The Republican party has chosen not to allow people registered as unaffiliated/independent from voting in their primary here in CA. I'm unclear from the article how often that's happened in the past, and too lazy to go look that all up. FWIW, the Democratic, Libertarian, and the American Independent parties will allow unaffiliated voters to vote in their primaries.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-21/california-independent-voters-can-cast-ballots-for-democrats-not-trump-march-2020-primary


That's lame.

Florida's primaries are closed as well to independents like myself.

Can't say i'm pposed to that because it prevents foreign actors from influencing your candidates. If Republicans/ independents could vote in the democratic primary they could join together to bolster the worst candidate, giving their Republican/ Independent candidate a better shot.
I say let the Democrats pick their own "best" candidate, let the Independents pick theirs, let the GOP pick theirs, then let the people as a whole decide which of those should be the elected representative.


I'm waiting for US senators to fly to some other countries with riots for a one-day visit to declare that they are turning into police states, there is no evidence of violence, and to declare that they stand in solidarity with the protesters.

Also for riots to break out in their own states to see what they'll do.

Americans won't take to the streets like the Europeans, South Americans, Hong Kong, etc have. We largely believe too much of our bullshit, are uneducated/ ignorant on many of the most pressing issues, and while we go on and on about of democracy and the greatest country in the world (remember what I said about believe in our own bullshit) we won't put in the effort to see it change for the better. Because we believe it to be the best. Despite all the facts saying it ain't.

[Freude am Fahren]

Open primaries can definitely open the door to sabotage, but that's why I kinda think if one is open, the other should be as well, at least to independents, maybe not to members of other party. That way, at least everyone is on an equal playing field.

Perhaps if you are (I) you can only vote in one primary? Not sure the solution, but I hate not being able to vote in primaries.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I thought it’s kinda fair to have closed primaries. I find it kinda weird that DNC would allow Bernie to even run as a democrat...

Maybe the solution is to have one single combined primary... combining both or all parties... even with combined debates... that way voters can just pick one.

And then the top 2 candidates can basically have a run off election! instead of picking lesser or the 2 evils, this way, we should end up with 2 of our better candidates...

[Yw-slayer]

Mo Bro, thanks for putting his stuff in spoiler quotes, thereby meaning that I don't have to put up with his gibberish.


Americans won't take to the streets like the Europeans, South Americans, Hong Kong, etc have. We largely believe too much of our bullshit, are uneducated/ ignorant on many of the most pressing issues, and while we go on and on about of democracy and the greatest country in the world (remember what I said about believe in our own bullshit) we won't put in the effort to see it change for the better. Because we believe it to be the best. Despite all the facts saying it ain't.

I know it generally doesn't happen. But it'd be hilarious poetic justice if it happened in Texas or Missouri. With that said, I don't wish ill-will on anyone in those states apart from Josh and Ted.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal has been thoughtfully doing that for years. Censoring me while debating me at the same time. Where have you been? :p

Anyway, not sure what Mo meant by Americans don’t take to the streets. BLM movement is never on streets? Not sure about rest of the US but I’ve lived thru LA riots.

To a more modern and hypothetical situation, If Hillary were president and continued with status quo, ignoring the jobs lost by the deplorables, I’m pretty sure the poor white folks would probably start riots of their own. With their guns, it’d certainly be interesting how US will police their states...

When there a significant portion of the population pissed off at the government and the govt stubbornly refuse to listen, this nation will be in trouble.

Now luckily HK is so tiny. I’m sure most Chinese are happy with Xi’s leadership. So they can afford to ignore HK protesters and still manage to keep China great forever.

[sandydandy]

Trudeau wins. I have to admit I'm not thrilled about voting Liberal, but it was the only good option. Ontario voters killed the Conservatives. I figure Scheer now has four years to get his shit together and clean the racist elements out of his party, and his base, and then maybe in four years people like me will consider voting for him.

I don't say Conservatives are racist as a blanket statement, there is a real and poisonous racist movement among them. The Yellow Vest movement, which started out as a noble thing protesting economical inequality, has been infested with white nationalists who openly chanted Nazi slogans at Scheer's events, and he never had the decency to denounce them. Plus members of his own party who have made racial remarks in the past were given the opportunity to remain with the party as long as they offered a "fuck off" apology for their past actions. Not good enough. Until he makes a genuine effort to clear the riff raff from the Conservative movement, I won't even consider supporting them.

[Tom Servo]

Trump, in a rant to the media, complained about the "phony emoluments clause" to reporters after he had to move the G-7 summit from his Doral golf resort.

I don't see how that's anything other than claiming parts of the constitution he doesn't like are "phony", and I do not see why the Democrats aren't immediately hammering him on this after all the times he's claimed that Republicans love the constitution while Democrats hate it.

Then again, somehow we entirely missed the boat that the "love it or leave it party" turned into the "America is no longer great" party, so I guess I don't expect much here either.

[tigeraid]

Trudeau wins. I have to admit I'm not thrilled about voting Liberal, but it was the only good option. Ontario voters killed the Conservatives. I figure Scheer now has four years to get his shit together and clean the racist elements out of his party, and his base, and then maybe in four years people like me will consider voting for him.

I don't say Conservatives are racist as a blanket statement, there is a real and poisonous racist movement among them. The Yellow Vest movement, which started out as a noble thing protesting economical inequality, has been infested with white nationalists who openly chanted Nazi slogans at Scheer's events, and he never had the decency to denounce them. Plus members of his own party who have made racial remarks in the past were given the opportunity to remain with the party as long as they offered a "fuck off" apology for their past actions. Not good enough. Until he makes a genuine effort to clear the riff raff from the Conservative movement, I won't even consider supporting them.


The Bloc winning so many seats is giving me flashbacks to the 90s though. WTF is gonna happen to anything the Liberals try to put through Parliament when a party that wants to LEAVE THE COUNTRY has to vote on it? Not that the BQ has been super-separatist in years, mind you.

[sandydandy]

Oh those Quebecers. Every fifteen years or so they have to throw a tantrum.

[SportWagon]

I remember Trudeau I. The FLQ. The kidnapping of Pierre Laporte and James Cross (though I couldn't remember their names or positions).The War Measures Act. (Though I remembered it as "Emergency Powers Act", for some reason).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis